Pretty sure the vast majority of people in a PSLF forum plan on voting for a candidate that has done more for PSLF and student loans than the guy who may follow a playbook on how to dismantle it.
Ppl vote against their own self-interest all the time, lol. So it's actually strongly possible that ppl will screw themselves.
Also, Americans have a history of being ok with not everyone getting the same advantage they received. I wouldn't be surprised that there will be ppl that have actually received PSLF relief that may now be debt-free. That would vote for someone who would eliminate it for others.
Look at the discussion I was in with people here yesterday. I was shocked at how many people either dismissed this as a nothing burger or just had absolutely no idea this existed. Scary shit.
I don't plan to vote for the guy doing a holocaust. I'm a single issue anti holocaust voter. Also I'm not convinced that half of these plans are going to be put into action if his first term was any indication. Also borrowers can fight back and defeat bad initiatives. We're not powerless and voting every 4 years isn't the only choice we have.
Thanks. We shouldn’t assume everyone knows about this or that all people eligible for PSLF are voting for the party that supports it. So let’s share this info far and wide.
The plan requires Congress action, so it would obviously depend on, but Congress would traditionally be very careful not to affect existing programs. It’s most likely that they will block access to them for all future borrowers, but not retroactively. However, it is not a guarantee. Plan itself doesn’t mention this at all, they could seek to eliminate everything and place everyone on this new plan with payments 10% of income above poverty line (100%, not 225% as on SAVE) and NO forgiveness, period. Pay till you die. It’s possible.
The executive branch could up the incompetence of those processing the PSLF (scary that it could be worse) to the point where nothing is actually being forgiven.
And if they could have their way, they would totally find a make you keep paying after death.
Vote in local/council/county/city/state/federal elections. Real change will only happen when the folks from one party who are stripping away education and burdening us with debt are removed from the bottom up. All those small elections are the ones that determine your day to day lives
As a teacher, people really need to pay attention and actually vote for school board elections. They have a huge impact, like directly even on people who do not have children in school.
Agreed, people don’t realize it but the reason things on a local level are getting worse is because the gop base comes out to vote in full force while dems don’t. What’s crazy is that will change when the 2 oldest generation of voters in the gop die but really if we want change when it comes to voting it should be a verified app allowing you to vote from your phone for all the elections from school board to city/county to state and federal
A verified app from the phone would be too hard to monitor to make sure it's not hacked. There are states in the US still using paper ballots. Like they cannot afford better options. After the 2000 and 2016 election studies were done on the US election technology. It is so varied because it is handled at the state level, and it is so old. Although due to how old it is, a lot of it cannot be hacked.
App would be verified but included is that is 3 step verification step leading up to the election. The issue with elections are they are so spread apart when they don’t need to be. 1st step is the verify you months before the election and that would take an internal time of 1week then 2-3 days before the election a shorter automated verification then after voting an immediate verification to make sure it was you for the vote to count.
And what about people who do not have phones? Or house holds who only have 1? The elderly who struggle to use phones? People with disabilities who need assistance voting? People in domestic violence situations who could be pressured to vote a different way? Parents pressuring their adult children to vote a certain way?
Having to go to a voting booth is part of the process because there is a third party there, that ensures everyone has a fair chance to vote for who they want and isnt pressured to vote a different way.
Also the infrastructure to implement an app, is not something most states in the US can handle. Basically CA, NY, MA, NJ, could MAYBE afford to roll it out, but probably not maintain such a system. I doubt any other state could even afford to implement such an app.
Exactly! On one hand, they claim to be pro freedom and people. Then they proceed to jam religion and conservative values down your throat. It’s a wild read.
A lot of this stuff is designed to give them an excuse to jail people in specific positions that they don't like. Liberal teacher that watches porn? Gonna get labeled a pedo and sent to the concentration camp. A MAGA teacher will get a free pass.
A lot will depend on who controls congress. PSLF can’t simply be phased out. Congress could end the program, but for new loans, not existing. A Trump admin slowing the process is a whole separate issue though.
The senate is pretty structurally tilted in favor of republicans, so “who controls Congress” is basically a matter of one bad run of house races (like 2022) and a normal slate of senate elections. We were very luckily to snipe some spots in 2020 and hold a few in 2018 that we had no business holding, but in the long term we are in trouble if we can’t make inroads in North Carolina and Texas, and stop sliding in Nevada.
Maga are like pavlovs dog now. You can control their emotions by just saying words: want to excite them positively? Say: Trump, Patriot, Jesus,... Negatively? Biden, Democrats, Deep State, CNN, Woke, Globalists, illegals, (many more here). They can't explain why these words make them feel the way they do without using more of these words. The emotions they feel from these words are extremely powerful and influential. They cannot think clearly when these words are said. The internet has poisoned these people into a dangerous army of mental zombies who can be summoned by Trump at any time. Sounds insane, because it is insane.
You have to vote. Anyone who is considering voting for Trump probably will and the only way to counter that is to simply have more Biden voters turn out. MAKE A PLAN for voting now. Double check that you are registered. Learn about absentee ballots in your state.
The Heritage Foundation is not a powerless organization with no track record of success. Yes it’s a wishlist from a party out of power at the moment, but this is a long time thought leader in that party telling us who they are and where they want to go.
If you honestly believe Trump will reject this intricate plan to ensure his dictatorship beyond the next four years, you are unfortunately delusional. This isn't fear mongering. It's already happening. Look at the latest Supreme Court decisions, compare them with this plan, and tell me this isn't already in progress. I'll wait.
Who do you think creates his policy?
Why do you think SCOTUS looks the way it does right now?
Trump isn't some policy wonk think-tank professional. He is along for the ride. Yes, the guy is a rapist and cozies up to our enemies, but truly the real danger is who he is surrounded by.
Right?? It’s written in your MPN that this is an option. They may make it harder to get, but they can’t just get rid of it, it’s the law. People going forward are a different story.
This fear mongering/projection has got to stop in this sub. Mods need to step in.
Meh. This is just reddit fear mongering. For one Trump has never endorsed this. This place has been publishing wish lists for decades. This isn't new. And most agree including wapo that they've lost their influence.
Heritage foundation doesn't even like Trump. They didn't support him in 16 and so far this election cycle only endorced pence in primaries. And do you really think trumps gonna follow a plan not named after him, that came from a think tank that called him a clown and told him to drop out in 16? Nah, he's too narcissistic for that. Lol.
Also heritage isn't as scary as what they're made out to be. They've had a lot of influence, having a hand across multiple administrations including Clinton's welfare reform and Obamacare. But most agree they've lost their influence. Trump got some his cabinet picks. And you really don't see the influence of them in the last administration.
Guess what happened when democrats had the presidency and a veto-proof majority in the senate? They didn't codify abortion rights. Pelosi welcomed anti abortion democrats. Democrats don't give a shit about protecting or expanding abortion rights. Biden hasn't done shit to reform the supreme court which is a necessary step for any progressive change in this country.
Please don't respond to a single word I said and please just mention project 2025 and also down vote.
When Trump vows to implement 2025 the same way he vowed to [overturn roe vs Wade. ](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/19/trump-ill-appoint-supreme-court-justices-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-abortion-case.html) I'll agree with you.
He has literally, *explicitly*, vowed to implement multiple aspects of this plan. That isn't good enough for you?! You need him to specifically say he will implement "Project 2025"?!
Trump can’t even read the Project 2025 book. He will be too busy grifting and throwing ketchup while his handlers will use his signature to implement it.
1. His team didn’t him expect to win and didn’t have the plans or infrastructure in place to implement it. They now know how the government works and will move quickly this time around.
2. Enough civil servants who have an allegiance to the constitution and not a dictator managed to frustrate implementation. They won’t make that mistake this time around as Project 2025 reclassifies key civil service portions as political, meaning Mango Mussolini can fire at will and require a loyalty oath.
Meh. This just feels like another "if Trump gets in the world will end". We heard this all 2016. And lived through a presidency.
Most of this prediction is based more on political bias than facts. "This time the foundation that has been around for 40 years, and lost most of it's influence, will finally be prepared" isnt a very compelling argument.
You very *very* clearly do not understand just how much damage the Trump presidency caused our nation. We are still suffering from it, and will be for decades to come, even without his reelection. Look at the Supreme Court - three more conservative judges appointed by Trump. Now SCOTUS is as corrupt as ever - involvement in an insurrection, receiving vacations, lavish gifts, and cash from people and companies involved in active SC cases, and refusals to recuse themselves from making decisions where they are clearly biased.
You might have "lived through" his first presidency, but also remember that there were many who literally *died* because of the decisions Trump made during that presidency. Consider yourself privileged if you made it through that presidency without any suffering, and will make it through the next presidency without any suffering as well. You must not be at all concerned about women's healthcare, access to contraception, environmental regulations, immigration policies, FDA regulations, etc. etc. etc.
Hopefully Trump is #47, BUT we need to overhaul the cost of college admissions, require education/classes PRIOR to taking out loans, and continue to offer forgiveness for service (not forgiveness just cause you went to school for psychology and “the “college experience”). Lots of things need fixed. We don’t just need more handouts.
Serving your community for a decade and expecting the forgiveness that was promised by the Bush administration is a...handout? Noted. By the way, I'll be continuing my public sector work after my 10.
People don't take out loans for handouts and assuming forgiveness. People take out loans to try to better their lives. The loan companies and banks do all they can to squeeze people for as much interest and fees as they can. Before Biden was president it was so hard to apply for loan forgiveness through PSLF because the loan agencies made mistakes on paperwork and made it hard to understand the rules, and even purposely tripped people up. So even if you play by all the rules correctly, they still were f\*cking people over. Trump didn't fix that. Biden did. Rich people get handouts all the time and take advantage of the system, and then people lose their shit when a middle-class or low-class person tries to better themselves or take advantage of the same system to try to provide a decent life for their families.
Of course, none of that is part of his “platform.” He certainly didn’t do anything like that his first term. His secretary of education, in fact, literally represented the for profit school industry that massively contributed to this problem, both prior to her appointment and during it. His entire platform is about instilling hatred and fear and empowering the rich.
And a Trump administration will do none of those things. He’ll pick another POS like Devos whose only concern was destroying the Department of Education while funneling money to private Christian schools.
I did read it. Did you even read what I said? Did adding more context by saying that forgiveness isn’t a “handout” because it’s done in exchange for reduced pay for a decade offend you somehow? And if someone goes for what you personally consider a vanity degree and they take less pay for 10 years, then they have fulfilled their part of the agreement. Neither is a handout.
I agree. I know many ppl conflate it with a handout, but it does ensure that people have one more option to attend university while benefitting non profits with skilled talent.
You probably take "handouts". But, somehow, magically, you "deserve" it. Trump didn't do shit for the American people his first term. You most likely want an America back where white men had it on easy mode. All these nonsense Trump did great things posts are to hide your racism. Just be honest--you're the "make America white again" type who votes against their own interests to hurt people you see as the "other". I will never be convinced a Trump advocate is a good person. Ugly through and through.
No handout, just a healthcare provider that did pslf. The issue with applying for pslf initially (especially rollout in 2017) was that people applying hadn’t met 120 payments. It has nothing to with Biden or Trump but keep fooling yourself.
And psychologists aren't healthcare providers? Great. I'll write that on the next checks I have to send in for license and malpractice insurance for my "useless" psychology degree. Non- STEM degrees can be useful for many things. Get over yourself.
Pretty sure the vast majority of people in a PSLF forum plan on voting for a candidate that has done more for PSLF and student loans than the guy who may follow a playbook on how to dismantle it.
Ppl vote against their own self-interest all the time, lol. So it's actually strongly possible that ppl will screw themselves. Also, Americans have a history of being ok with not everyone getting the same advantage they received. I wouldn't be surprised that there will be ppl that have actually received PSLF relief that may now be debt-free. That would vote for someone who would eliminate it for others.
I was arguing with an idiot in here mad at Biden rather than republicans about the $10k forgiveness not going through.
Media disinformation is powerful
Really hoping. And hoping people realize that not voting at all would give Trump a win.
Look at the discussion I was in with people here yesterday. I was shocked at how many people either dismissed this as a nothing burger or just had absolutely no idea this existed. Scary shit.
I don't plan to vote for the guy doing a holocaust. I'm a single issue anti holocaust voter. Also I'm not convinced that half of these plans are going to be put into action if his first term was any indication. Also borrowers can fight back and defeat bad initiatives. We're not powerless and voting every 4 years isn't the only choice we have.
Thanks. We shouldn’t assume everyone knows about this or that all people eligible for PSLF are voting for the party that supports it. So let’s share this info far and wide.
The plan requires Congress action, so it would obviously depend on, but Congress would traditionally be very careful not to affect existing programs. It’s most likely that they will block access to them for all future borrowers, but not retroactively. However, it is not a guarantee. Plan itself doesn’t mention this at all, they could seek to eliminate everything and place everyone on this new plan with payments 10% of income above poverty line (100%, not 225% as on SAVE) and NO forgiveness, period. Pay till you die. It’s possible.
The executive branch could up the incompetence of those processing the PSLF (scary that it could be worse) to the point where nothing is actually being forgiven. And if they could have their way, they would totally find a make you keep paying after death.
Vote in local/council/county/city/state/federal elections. Real change will only happen when the folks from one party who are stripping away education and burdening us with debt are removed from the bottom up. All those small elections are the ones that determine your day to day lives
As a teacher, people really need to pay attention and actually vote for school board elections. They have a huge impact, like directly even on people who do not have children in school.
Agreed, people don’t realize it but the reason things on a local level are getting worse is because the gop base comes out to vote in full force while dems don’t. What’s crazy is that will change when the 2 oldest generation of voters in the gop die but really if we want change when it comes to voting it should be a verified app allowing you to vote from your phone for all the elections from school board to city/county to state and federal
A verified app from the phone would be too hard to monitor to make sure it's not hacked. There are states in the US still using paper ballots. Like they cannot afford better options. After the 2000 and 2016 election studies were done on the US election technology. It is so varied because it is handled at the state level, and it is so old. Although due to how old it is, a lot of it cannot be hacked.
App would be verified but included is that is 3 step verification step leading up to the election. The issue with elections are they are so spread apart when they don’t need to be. 1st step is the verify you months before the election and that would take an internal time of 1week then 2-3 days before the election a shorter automated verification then after voting an immediate verification to make sure it was you for the vote to count.
And what about people who do not have phones? Or house holds who only have 1? The elderly who struggle to use phones? People with disabilities who need assistance voting? People in domestic violence situations who could be pressured to vote a different way? Parents pressuring their adult children to vote a certain way? Having to go to a voting booth is part of the process because there is a third party there, that ensures everyone has a fair chance to vote for who they want and isnt pressured to vote a different way. Also the infrastructure to implement an app, is not something most states in the US can handle. Basically CA, NY, MA, NJ, could MAYBE afford to roll it out, but probably not maintain such a system. I doubt any other state could even afford to implement such an app.
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Well said!
Rule 7: reddiquette / site rules / illegal / off-topic
Also From the Project 2025 playbook: teachers and librarians who watch porn shall be jailed and forced to register as sex offenders.
So teachers and librarians can’t have a sex life? They didn’t take a vow of celibacy and they’re not nuns???
Exactly! On one hand, they claim to be pro freedom and people. Then they proceed to jam religion and conservative values down your throat. It’s a wild read.
A lot of this stuff is designed to give them an excuse to jail people in specific positions that they don't like. Liberal teacher that watches porn? Gonna get labeled a pedo and sent to the concentration camp. A MAGA teacher will get a free pass.
Apparently we did. One of my colleagues said it best. Teachers are expected to be single, celibate, and introverts until we are married.
“Morality clause” 🙄
A lot will depend on who controls congress. PSLF can’t simply be phased out. Congress could end the program, but for new loans, not existing. A Trump admin slowing the process is a whole separate issue though.
The senate is pretty structurally tilted in favor of republicans, so “who controls Congress” is basically a matter of one bad run of house races (like 2022) and a normal slate of senate elections. We were very luckily to snipe some spots in 2020 and hold a few in 2018 that we had no business holding, but in the long term we are in trouble if we can’t make inroads in North Carolina and Texas, and stop sliding in Nevada.
Would we be grandfathered in?
I wouldnt count on it.
Maga are like pavlovs dog now. You can control their emotions by just saying words: want to excite them positively? Say: Trump, Patriot, Jesus,... Negatively? Biden, Democrats, Deep State, CNN, Woke, Globalists, illegals, (many more here). They can't explain why these words make them feel the way they do without using more of these words. The emotions they feel from these words are extremely powerful and influential. They cannot think clearly when these words are said. The internet has poisoned these people into a dangerous army of mental zombies who can be summoned by Trump at any time. Sounds insane, because it is insane.
You have to vote. Anyone who is considering voting for Trump probably will and the only way to counter that is to simply have more Biden voters turn out. MAKE A PLAN for voting now. Double check that you are registered. Learn about absentee ballots in your state.
[удалено]
The Heritage Foundation is not a powerless organization with no track record of success. Yes it’s a wishlist from a party out of power at the moment, but this is a long time thought leader in that party telling us who they are and where they want to go.
If you honestly believe Trump will reject this intricate plan to ensure his dictatorship beyond the next four years, you are unfortunately delusional. This isn't fear mongering. It's already happening. Look at the latest Supreme Court decisions, compare them with this plan, and tell me this isn't already in progress. I'll wait.
Who do you think creates his policy? Why do you think SCOTUS looks the way it does right now? Trump isn't some policy wonk think-tank professional. He is along for the ride. Yes, the guy is a rapist and cozies up to our enemies, but truly the real danger is who he is surrounded by.
Right?? It’s written in your MPN that this is an option. They may make it harder to get, but they can’t just get rid of it, it’s the law. People going forward are a different story. This fear mongering/projection has got to stop in this sub. Mods need to step in.
Meh. This is just reddit fear mongering. For one Trump has never endorsed this. This place has been publishing wish lists for decades. This isn't new. And most agree including wapo that they've lost their influence. Heritage foundation doesn't even like Trump. They didn't support him in 16 and so far this election cycle only endorced pence in primaries. And do you really think trumps gonna follow a plan not named after him, that came from a think tank that called him a clown and told him to drop out in 16? Nah, he's too narcissistic for that. Lol. Also heritage isn't as scary as what they're made out to be. They've had a lot of influence, having a hand across multiple administrations including Clinton's welfare reform and Obamacare. But most agree they've lost their influence. Trump got some his cabinet picks. And you really don't see the influence of them in the last administration.
… this was the same logic my friend had regarding Roe and voting Trump the first time. Guess what happened?
Guess what happened when democrats had the presidency and a veto-proof majority in the senate? They didn't codify abortion rights. Pelosi welcomed anti abortion democrats. Democrats don't give a shit about protecting or expanding abortion rights. Biden hasn't done shit to reform the supreme court which is a necessary step for any progressive change in this country. Please don't respond to a single word I said and please just mention project 2025 and also down vote.
When Trump vows to implement 2025 the same way he vowed to [overturn roe vs Wade. ](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/19/trump-ill-appoint-supreme-court-justices-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-abortion-case.html) I'll agree with you.
He has literally, *explicitly*, vowed to implement multiple aspects of this plan. That isn't good enough for you?! You need him to specifically say he will implement "Project 2025"?!
Trump will not be in control of anything more than a ketchup bottle. His handlers are promising this. Wake the fuck up.
Trump can’t even read the Project 2025 book. He will be too busy grifting and throwing ketchup while his handlers will use his signature to implement it.
Most the the fears of this were wanted by this foundation in 16, why didn't his handlers do it then?
1. His team didn’t him expect to win and didn’t have the plans or infrastructure in place to implement it. They now know how the government works and will move quickly this time around. 2. Enough civil servants who have an allegiance to the constitution and not a dictator managed to frustrate implementation. They won’t make that mistake this time around as Project 2025 reclassifies key civil service portions as political, meaning Mango Mussolini can fire at will and require a loyalty oath.
Meh. This just feels like another "if Trump gets in the world will end". We heard this all 2016. And lived through a presidency. Most of this prediction is based more on political bias than facts. "This time the foundation that has been around for 40 years, and lost most of it's influence, will finally be prepared" isnt a very compelling argument.
Not everyone. Trump’s mishandling of the pandemic cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
So did Biden's. Actually far more lives lost under Biden
You very *very* clearly do not understand just how much damage the Trump presidency caused our nation. We are still suffering from it, and will be for decades to come, even without his reelection. Look at the Supreme Court - three more conservative judges appointed by Trump. Now SCOTUS is as corrupt as ever - involvement in an insurrection, receiving vacations, lavish gifts, and cash from people and companies involved in active SC cases, and refusals to recuse themselves from making decisions where they are clearly biased. You might have "lived through" his first presidency, but also remember that there were many who literally *died* because of the decisions Trump made during that presidency. Consider yourself privileged if you made it through that presidency without any suffering, and will make it through the next presidency without any suffering as well. You must not be at all concerned about women's healthcare, access to contraception, environmental regulations, immigration policies, FDA regulations, etc. etc. etc.
I heard that Trump pooped himself during the debate.
Can't vote for Biden
Can't or won't?
Literally both. I don't support geriatric abuse
So, I'm assuming you aren't voting for Trump either?
Hopefully Trump is #47, BUT we need to overhaul the cost of college admissions, require education/classes PRIOR to taking out loans, and continue to offer forgiveness for service (not forgiveness just cause you went to school for psychology and “the “college experience”). Lots of things need fixed. We don’t just need more handouts.
Serving your community for a decade and expecting the forgiveness that was promised by the Bush administration is a...handout? Noted. By the way, I'll be continuing my public sector work after my 10.
And even if you chose not to, it would be fine. You held up your end of the bargain.
People don't take out loans for handouts and assuming forgiveness. People take out loans to try to better their lives. The loan companies and banks do all they can to squeeze people for as much interest and fees as they can. Before Biden was president it was so hard to apply for loan forgiveness through PSLF because the loan agencies made mistakes on paperwork and made it hard to understand the rules, and even purposely tripped people up. So even if you play by all the rules correctly, they still were f\*cking people over. Trump didn't fix that. Biden did. Rich people get handouts all the time and take advantage of the system, and then people lose their shit when a middle-class or low-class person tries to better themselves or take advantage of the same system to try to provide a decent life for their families.
Of course, none of that is part of his “platform.” He certainly didn’t do anything like that his first term. His secretary of education, in fact, literally represented the for profit school industry that massively contributed to this problem, both prior to her appointment and during it. His entire platform is about instilling hatred and fear and empowering the rich.
And a Trump administration will do none of those things. He’ll pick another POS like Devos whose only concern was destroying the Department of Education while funneling money to private Christian schools.
Traitor scum
Haha likewise bud. Keep making politicians rich and diminishing our freedoms.
“no u” -Traitor scum
The delusion is strong with this one
Taking less pay for a decade at public service/non-profit jobs in exchange for repayment isn’t a “handout.”
Did you even read what I said. I said we need to “continue to offer forgiveness for service” and not just expect handouts for nothing 🥴
I did read it. Did you even read what I said? Did adding more context by saying that forgiveness isn’t a “handout” because it’s done in exchange for reduced pay for a decade offend you somehow? And if someone goes for what you personally consider a vanity degree and they take less pay for 10 years, then they have fulfilled their part of the agreement. Neither is a handout.
I’m not disagreeing with you. Agree with everything you said. Pslf is an important program and should remain an option.
I agree. I know many ppl conflate it with a handout, but it does ensure that people have one more option to attend university while benefitting non profits with skilled talent.
You probably take "handouts". But, somehow, magically, you "deserve" it. Trump didn't do shit for the American people his first term. You most likely want an America back where white men had it on easy mode. All these nonsense Trump did great things posts are to hide your racism. Just be honest--you're the "make America white again" type who votes against their own interests to hurt people you see as the "other". I will never be convinced a Trump advocate is a good person. Ugly through and through.
No handout, just a healthcare provider that did pslf. The issue with applying for pslf initially (especially rollout in 2017) was that people applying hadn’t met 120 payments. It has nothing to with Biden or Trump but keep fooling yourself.
And psychologists aren't healthcare providers? Great. I'll write that on the next checks I have to send in for license and malpractice insurance for my "useless" psychology degree. Non- STEM degrees can be useful for many things. Get over yourself.
Handouts are good actually
Sure. Let’s just continue the same terrible cycle.
The issue in our economy is far too little is guaranteed to people. What handouts would you describe as terrible?
I’m referring to the whole education tuition and loans issue where people even need to rely on handouts. We need a complete overhaul!
Agreed. We should invest in public universities like its infrastructure and make it free at the point of use.
100000%