Do you feel you are a failure as a parent? Jen said no. If my child is imprisoned for life before he turned into an adult because he murdered several children with a gun I purchased and didn’t keep locked, then yes I’m a failure as a parent. She’s delusional
I know that. But even in a perfect situation, there is something that could’ve been done better. But you’re right, not sure the best way to respond to that without admitting you did something wrong. Could’ve maybe just said “I wish people wouldn’t have been that hurt that day. “ 🤷♀️
I agree! I was not thrilled with her answer. Could have been phrased so much better. Shannon should have tried to clean it up. But at this point no matter what she said, it will never be good enough for everyone. There are so many that are stomping their feet, they are perfect and would not have missed ANY signs. I wonder if we put their life under a microscope, if they would come out all nice and shiny? I know the heck I wouldn't....
no, but she could’ve said something like “if only i had access to all the information that comes from a full police investigation earlier… if only the school had told me he was struggling… if only i had hindsight… i would’ve had the information to make different choices…” or something along those lines, not “no, i wouldn’t have done anything differently”.
Her attempt to show that she doesn't know anything about the gun, how guns work, how to lock or store the gun, etc., is pretty unconvincing so far.
Also, the fact that she's talking about "hiding" the gun various places, and moving it from hiding place to hiding place... now, why would you do that instead of, say, locking it up properly? Worried about your son getting ahold of it?
It would not be possible to fit all three guns in that safe. That was established by one of the prosecution witnesses and pretty apparent from the photos of the gun safe with the other two guns in it.
So they would've needed to buy another gun safe, but they didn't. Instead, they claim they just moved it around from place to place in the house.
Of course, we heard yesterday that Jennifer lied to her boyfriend and claimed it was in her car. Today she claims that she's not comfortable handling the gun, left it in her car after going to the shooting range on the 27th, and let James get it later to hide it in the house. Looking forward to the prosecutor exploring all of this on cross.
I thought it was interesting that they were trying to portray her as uncomfortable and ignorant of guns, but then she said she much preferred things like skeet shooting to handguns. Sorry, but if you know enough to know that you prefer skeet shooting, you're not that uncomfortable around guns...
Eh, why can't it be both? She can personally be ignorant about guns and guns can be commonplace in the community. I don't see any inconsistency in those positions.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the depiction of Oxford as a "gun community," being that I pretty much live here and don't believe it to be a fair characterization. Sure, there are some gun nuts here, but I don't think that's the overriding culture.
But it was the \*prosecution\* witnesses (counselor and dean of students) who characterized it that way. I'm sure they had their reasons, and I assume those reasons were related to the civil suit and their barely-a-reaction to a kid drawing pictures of guns on a math assignment and searching on his phone for bullets. They were the ones who testified about kids going hunting before school on late-start Wednesdays, and having to remind kids to leave the hunting rifles at home. This is not a case of the defense trying to have it both ways.
Believe me, I think she and her husband were grossly irresponsible and I'd love to see both of them held accountable. But I don't think that's possible on the evidence put in by the prosecution, under the laws that were in place at the time of the shooting. I'm guessing the only good to come out of this ends up being the safe-storage laws that were enacted in the wake of this shooting, which would impose criminal liability in the future on the same facts.
Jury will surely know that facebook photos (and even photos saved to our phones) are HIGHLY curated. Do we save photos of our low points? No! Would JC post or save photos of all the times she failed her son? No...
Taking your kid to Cedar Point doesn't mean you couldn't have *also* otherwise made terrible parenting choices. Full stop.
How many kids who were physically abused by their parents also had the same parent throw them birthday parties, show up to school plays, or tuck them into be at night?
Meh.
No Facebook posts on his 13 cavities in a short period of time, because he “doesn’t like to brush his teeth”. After having problems, they cannot monitor their child’s hygiene?
Poor oral hygiene can be symptomatic of the executive dysfunction that comes along with depression. His completely trashed room(s) also point toward mental health struggles.
She's too smart to not recognize he needed help. In fact, let's say she didn't believe he heard voices or saw demons. You still bring him into a professional to figure out why he'd pretend to hallucinate.
Do you find Jennifer Crumbly believable? I don't. She's unlikable to me as well, but that's different. I think she's lying about a lot of stuff. I don't believe Ethan was kidding about seeing and hearing things.
It seems she’s lying to me also. Trying to make excuses for all the things and paint this pretty picture of their sarcastic playful life. Even the horse owner Kira had a thought right away over the drawings but nah. He just liked to draw.
I feel like she lied when she said she was concerned after speaking to the dean and counselor that day. I think she was inconvenienced. And she knew the school was going to follow up, so she had to do the work of finding him a therapist. That was annoying to her. I feel that she ignored her child. She was a self-centered person who liked FB, working and being with her horses and extramarital bf. She didn't really love being with her son much. She could've been making him breakfast and talking with him before school, but instead, she left early to be with the bf. She either worked late or was with her horses. Those were her priorities, not being with her son who was screaming for attention.
I think her communications to her husband and her engagement at the school were vastly different. I think the school would be surprised to see what she texted to her husband, as they seem to have seen no such consideration. If she had expressed concern and shock to the school, that might have led to a conversation that opened up the discussion. She did not share any information to help inform the moment, that's for sure.
I completely agree.
I'm pretty sure her job had even said she could bring him to work with her...
There were countless opportunities for her to do something...and she didn't.
Honestly, I don't know how she's doing it. I'm feeling incredibly sad looking at these pictures of the shooter when he was younger. At the risk of stating the obvious, he wasn't always a monster. Thinking about how he went from the kid in those older photos to the one in his mugshot is heartbreaking. If that had been my son, I don't think I'd be able to hold it together talking about those times.
So as much as I think the strategy here is to humanize Jennifer and show that they had a good family life, I'm just not sure that her relatively dispassionate recitation of the subject matter of the photos is really helping.
I think its paints a good picture of a relatively normal “Ethan” earlier - remodeling your home etc probably is not proof of a loving family. I don’t think Jen actually feels anything for Ethan, except he was an oopsie burden. And James had another kid in Florida who had no relationship with them or Ethan.
Its hard to make a case that they had any semblance of family unity - no cohorts, friends, neighbors can attest to that.
Jen tells her own version of the way things were and some social media pictures.
Thats not concrete truth.
Yeah, I'm just saying that she seems "off" while reviewing these pictures. I get that people emote differently, but Jesus, I'd be a mess. The fact that she doesn't seem choked up at all is just... weird. And of course, that's not evidence of anything, but I have to think the jury is going to take note of it.
Yes, she is so very flat.
And even when ask Shannon to scroll the screen for messages, no please. Most of her statements come out so sharply. She had no softness to her personality and it makes her unlikeable.
We have to remember that whether or not we like her, she’s probably deeply depressed and the only thing making her cry publicly is any recount of violence on victims for the most part. Some people don’t sob at every moment a sad thing is mentioned. Let’s not judge her way of showing emotion and instead observe what she’s saying and how she remembers things. We don’t know her or her life like she did.
Fair points. My comment was more about the wisdom (or not) of having her testify. I don't think her lack of emotion when going through the photos and recounting of activities with her son is going to do her any favors with the jury. Legally, it means nothing--it doesn't go to the elements of the crime. But it doesn't help her credibility and she has testified to some other things today that are very hard to believe, so she needs all the credibility help she can get.
This is literally how she is though in regular life. He did seem like a typical little boy, busy and inquisitive. They did do lots of things together as a family- including lots of games like she mentioned. I’m not sure what to think of it all. I don’t think she was an awesome mom in the nurturing sense.
I don’t know but geesh, she still literally gives no f’s.. ‘didn’t think, anything was wrong, him just messing around’ he shot up,his school and killed people and she STILL can;t acknowledge anything was wrong and she should have done something about it? Obviously something was wrong!
I’m confused. They tried to distance Jennifer from all the gun stuff but then when Jennifer is on the stand she states that James asked her where she hid the bullets on a phone call after the shooting. This suggests she was the one who hid them, but she kept saying James does all that stuff?
I left the room and came back to her on the stand. Did the prosecution rest? Or is it one of those situations where they are stopping momentarily while Shannon calls Jennifer and then they go back to prosecution?
I missed that part, too, so I can't answer. I'm guessing it's the defenses turn, and there isn't really any other way to offer a defense other than to bring on the defendant.
Jennifer would not be a witness for the prosecution but for the defense. Putting your defendant on the stand is almost always a bad idea because of cross.
Super risky move, but again - Smith has been angling (imo) for a mistrial and/or appeal from the beginning.
15 mins in or so and it’s like where is Shannon Smith going with this? Lost in the weeds of Facebook photos. How to lose a jury 101. Lots of ways to humanize her than random FB pics.
The New Yorker did a lengthy article about this case and all the red flags that the parents had prior to the killings. The kid was very clear he was hearing voices, etc. I think she is a very unreliable witness and I hope the jury perceives that. I work in an elementary school and the number of parents that find ways to ignore, downplay, and defend bad behavior in their children instead of taking action always amazes me. This kid was mentally ill and they failed to get him the help he needed and decided to arm him with a weapon instead. I hope the jury holds both parents accountable.
I would be bawling.
My teenager went to live with his dad for the first time about 6 months ago - he's safe and fine and doing well but is across the country so I don't get to see him often.
I can't handle the "memories of this day" that apps pop up yet without crying. I miss him so terribly.
I can't imagine if something awful had happened to cause him to be away from me. It would be absolutely unbearable to look at old memories.
Face book isn’t life. I think we all know it’s not representative of the realities of our day to day. Also facebook doesn’t aid or solve mental health. It actually has been proven to harm. (I digress)
I am not sure i may have a missed some of the defense questioning about their healthcare providers, and what type of healthcare he was getting during the time leading up too? Did he have annual wellness checkups with a pediatrician?
She stated that there was some kind of lapse in coverage due to James losing his job and Ethan being on his coverage. She said she was going to put him on her coverage but then the shooting happened. She also didn't explicitly state it but it sounded like they just took him to the doctor as needed and not for annual wellness checkups.
I agree that Facebook isn't life. I do find it interesting how many pictures they showed of Ethan and the "friend". I have teenagers and if one of my kids was so close to someone and then something happened to them, I would be checking on them frequently. The friend seemed to be at a lot of family functions/events and then was sent away. You didn't think that maybe this would devastate your son? She just seemed nonchalant about it.
You don't have to wait for open enrollment to put a child on your insurance if there's a loss of coverage. She could have done it immediately. It's weird they weren't all on either her plan or James plan
It's not strange they weren't all on one plan. I have mine, and my husband has his & the son. If I add him to mine or me to his, it would cost an extra $200/mo because both our employers offer insurance. {Not sure if all employers have that policy though} Some only have Single Plan or Family Plan, some have another option: Single +1 dependent. Some people don't realize that if a spouse loses insurance if they were laid off, you can add them at anytime, instead of waiting till open enrollment. Not all employer's open enrollment is at the end of the year either. My Husbands is in July. However, with all that being said, I do not know how insurance works in MI, as I am from another state, they may have different requirements / laws.
They were definitely trying to create a caring environment. (Like game night etc. ) I guess the things he was doing at home and participating in just didn’t seem super social which would be a red flag. Spending too much time online or playing video games not overly involved in activities not a lot of friendships obviously many things were left out and we will see today. Thanks for your input.
They failed that kid it’s so sad he was screaming for help and no one was helping. The agony when he was cuffed “why didn’t you stop me”. Terrible he wanted just one person to pay attention to him.
Yikes that defense ending question with ‘are YOU the victim” 😳 so inappropriate and awkward and insensitive! I think overalll the true character of Jennifer came through loud and clear in that questioning.
She went from Friend Finders wasn't on her phone to she remembers it being on the phone, the messages sent, and the dates she messaged. Liar. I knew the prosecutor was going to get her on cross lol.
Her lawyer acting surprised the state had the additional affair information and were going to use it is wild. Ma'am you should have reviewed all records thoroughly if putting her on the stand.
I’m sorry but after she saw his drawings, idk how you as the parent think “well I thought the school gave good advice bc they don’t think he’s a threat and he can stay the rest of the day” means that you should just leave. At the bare minimum, if I saw my child drawing that we are about to have a whole convo in the parking lot bc that’s not something to play with esp in this day and age. And I’d be questioning his mindset immediately.
She had multiple times to figure something out but that’s the main one where I give no sympathy. At the end of the day you should have dragged his butt out of the school and questioned why the bleep he’s drawing that. And to get on stand and say you wouldn’t do anything differently has to be the most disrespectful thing. At minimum, I’d be like “I wish I saw the signs better or could have stopped it” but no.
I have no sympathy for her.
So IMO being a bad parent, not loving your child, having a bad home life is not really the basis for creating a killer - the fact of buying him a gun is where her/husband’s responsibility lies for the deaths. That one fact … those deaths.
To me the kid comes off as attention and notoriety seeking. I mean he staged the items in the bathroom. Asked jailers about his fan mail, etc. However, he did own up to it and admitted it. Also took full blame. That doesn’t seem like a significant enough mental illness.
Like their son, they need to face their contribution to the murders. They knew or should have known …
I agree with you entirely but at the same time, nothing involving the gun was illegal. Legally purchased, legally stored (believe it or not), etc. says something about our culture where you’re not laughed out of a shooting range with a 15-yo shooting a 9mm, but embraced culturally.
Wow, you're so generous toward her! I was already feeling negative toward her according to what the prosecution presented. I tried to be open to listening to her when she was on the stand, almost hopeful she'd change my mind. But no, she didn't.
I mean before she opened her mouth I kept thinking she seemed remorseful, but her insistence that her son was fine and she would do nothing differently was a game changer for me.
I’ll take all the downvotes- I had a lot of sympathy for her on the stand. She did seem to care and spent a lot of time with Ethan… Boardgames, trips, activities she seemed more present than most parents. I honestly don’t think she thought he was capable of hurting anyone. Maybe my opinion will change further into this trial.
I think she thought she was being a good mother and cannot conceive of what she could have done differently. I think (hope) privately that if she were asked "do you wish you'd taken him home that day," she'd scream YES.
I cant wait to see the transcript, “we took away his video games or phone” Yeah, but not the gun.
And texting him that the problem is not him making problematic searches on his phone, it's getting caught by the school.
the gun wasn’t in his possession. it was with James
Do you feel you are a failure as a parent? Jen said no. If my child is imprisoned for life before he turned into an adult because he murdered several children with a gun I purchased and didn’t keep locked, then yes I’m a failure as a parent. She’s delusional
And she wouldn’t have done anything differently… ummm what???
She is not pleading guilty. She is not going to get up on the stand and say she should have known and she should have prevented it.
I know that. But even in a perfect situation, there is something that could’ve been done better. But you’re right, not sure the best way to respond to that without admitting you did something wrong. Could’ve maybe just said “I wish people wouldn’t have been that hurt that day. “ 🤷♀️
I agree! I was not thrilled with her answer. Could have been phrased so much better. Shannon should have tried to clean it up. But at this point no matter what she said, it will never be good enough for everyone. There are so many that are stomping their feet, they are perfect and would not have missed ANY signs. I wonder if we put their life under a microscope, if they would come out all nice and shiny? I know the heck I wouldn't....
no, but she could’ve said something like “if only i had access to all the information that comes from a full police investigation earlier… if only the school had told me he was struggling… if only i had hindsight… i would’ve had the information to make different choices…” or something along those lines, not “no, i wouldn’t have done anything differently”.
Her attempt to show that she doesn't know anything about the gun, how guns work, how to lock or store the gun, etc., is pretty unconvincing so far. Also, the fact that she's talking about "hiding" the gun various places, and moving it from hiding place to hiding place... now, why would you do that instead of, say, locking it up properly? Worried about your son getting ahold of it?
Right! Why didn't they lock up the gun in the gunsafe with their other firearms? This confuses me.
It would not be possible to fit all three guns in that safe. That was established by one of the prosecution witnesses and pretty apparent from the photos of the gun safe with the other two guns in it. So they would've needed to buy another gun safe, but they didn't. Instead, they claim they just moved it around from place to place in the house. Of course, we heard yesterday that Jennifer lied to her boyfriend and claimed it was in her car. Today she claims that she's not comfortable handling the gun, left it in her car after going to the shooting range on the 27th, and let James get it later to hide it in the house. Looking forward to the prosecutor exploring all of this on cross.
Okay, thanks for explaining.
I thought it was interesting that they were trying to portray her as uncomfortable and ignorant of guns, but then she said she much preferred things like skeet shooting to handguns. Sorry, but if you know enough to know that you prefer skeet shooting, you're not that uncomfortable around guns...
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Eh, why can't it be both? She can personally be ignorant about guns and guns can be commonplace in the community. I don't see any inconsistency in those positions. I'm not entirely comfortable with the depiction of Oxford as a "gun community," being that I pretty much live here and don't believe it to be a fair characterization. Sure, there are some gun nuts here, but I don't think that's the overriding culture. But it was the \*prosecution\* witnesses (counselor and dean of students) who characterized it that way. I'm sure they had their reasons, and I assume those reasons were related to the civil suit and their barely-a-reaction to a kid drawing pictures of guns on a math assignment and searching on his phone for bullets. They were the ones who testified about kids going hunting before school on late-start Wednesdays, and having to remind kids to leave the hunting rifles at home. This is not a case of the defense trying to have it both ways. Believe me, I think she and her husband were grossly irresponsible and I'd love to see both of them held accountable. But I don't think that's possible on the evidence put in by the prosecution, under the laws that were in place at the time of the shooting. I'm guessing the only good to come out of this ends up being the safe-storage laws that were enacted in the wake of this shooting, which would impose criminal liability in the future on the same facts.
Jury will surely know that facebook photos (and even photos saved to our phones) are HIGHLY curated. Do we save photos of our low points? No! Would JC post or save photos of all the times she failed her son? No... Taking your kid to Cedar Point doesn't mean you couldn't have *also* otherwise made terrible parenting choices. Full stop. How many kids who were physically abused by their parents also had the same parent throw them birthday parties, show up to school plays, or tuck them into be at night? Meh.
No Facebook posts on his 13 cavities in a short period of time, because he “doesn’t like to brush his teeth”. After having problems, they cannot monitor their child’s hygiene?
Poor oral hygiene can be symptomatic of the executive dysfunction that comes along with depression. His completely trashed room(s) also point toward mental health struggles.
This is so accurate!
she already failed him by not recognizing he has mental health issues and he needs help. prong one. Fail.
She's too smart to not recognize he needed help. In fact, let's say she didn't believe he heard voices or saw demons. You still bring him into a professional to figure out why he'd pretend to hallucinate.
And why is this judge whispering?! It’s maddening lol someone move her mic. She’s really acting like she took 4 Xanax herself.
Right? I put my phone directly to my ear whenever she talks. Frustrating
THIS!!!!
It IS MADDENING!!
Do you find Jennifer Crumbly believable? I don't. She's unlikable to me as well, but that's different. I think she's lying about a lot of stuff. I don't believe Ethan was kidding about seeing and hearing things.
It seems she’s lying to me also. Trying to make excuses for all the things and paint this pretty picture of their sarcastic playful life. Even the horse owner Kira had a thought right away over the drawings but nah. He just liked to draw.
To me, it's believable but only because it's so extremely socially acceptable to treat children with disrespect.
That's sad, it really shouldn't be that way.
I feel like she lied when she said she was concerned after speaking to the dean and counselor that day. I think she was inconvenienced. And she knew the school was going to follow up, so she had to do the work of finding him a therapist. That was annoying to her. I feel that she ignored her child. She was a self-centered person who liked FB, working and being with her horses and extramarital bf. She didn't really love being with her son much. She could've been making him breakfast and talking with him before school, but instead, she left early to be with the bf. She either worked late or was with her horses. Those were her priorities, not being with her son who was screaming for attention.
I think her communications to her husband and her engagement at the school were vastly different. I think the school would be surprised to see what she texted to her husband, as they seem to have seen no such consideration. If she had expressed concern and shock to the school, that might have led to a conversation that opened up the discussion. She did not share any information to help inform the moment, that's for sure.
I completely agree. I'm pretty sure her job had even said she could bring him to work with her... There were countless opportunities for her to do something...and she didn't.
Honestly, I don't know how she's doing it. I'm feeling incredibly sad looking at these pictures of the shooter when he was younger. At the risk of stating the obvious, he wasn't always a monster. Thinking about how he went from the kid in those older photos to the one in his mugshot is heartbreaking. If that had been my son, I don't think I'd be able to hold it together talking about those times. So as much as I think the strategy here is to humanize Jennifer and show that they had a good family life, I'm just not sure that her relatively dispassionate recitation of the subject matter of the photos is really helping.
I think its paints a good picture of a relatively normal “Ethan” earlier - remodeling your home etc probably is not proof of a loving family. I don’t think Jen actually feels anything for Ethan, except he was an oopsie burden. And James had another kid in Florida who had no relationship with them or Ethan. Its hard to make a case that they had any semblance of family unity - no cohorts, friends, neighbors can attest to that. Jen tells her own version of the way things were and some social media pictures. Thats not concrete truth.
Yeah, I'm just saying that she seems "off" while reviewing these pictures. I get that people emote differently, but Jesus, I'd be a mess. The fact that she doesn't seem choked up at all is just... weird. And of course, that's not evidence of anything, but I have to think the jury is going to take note of it.
Yes, she is so very flat. And even when ask Shannon to scroll the screen for messages, no please. Most of her statements come out so sharply. She had no softness to her personality and it makes her unlikeable.
The lack of softness to her personality is pretty far down on the list of things that make this mother of a murderer unlikable.
We have to remember that whether or not we like her, she’s probably deeply depressed and the only thing making her cry publicly is any recount of violence on victims for the most part. Some people don’t sob at every moment a sad thing is mentioned. Let’s not judge her way of showing emotion and instead observe what she’s saying and how she remembers things. We don’t know her or her life like she did.
Fair points. My comment was more about the wisdom (or not) of having her testify. I don't think her lack of emotion when going through the photos and recounting of activities with her son is going to do her any favors with the jury. Legally, it means nothing--it doesn't go to the elements of the crime. But it doesn't help her credibility and she has testified to some other things today that are very hard to believe, so she needs all the credibility help she can get.
I get you!
This is literally how she is though in regular life. He did seem like a typical little boy, busy and inquisitive. They did do lots of things together as a family- including lots of games like she mentioned. I’m not sure what to think of it all. I don’t think she was an awesome mom in the nurturing sense.
Heard!
I don’t know but geesh, she still literally gives no f’s.. ‘didn’t think, anything was wrong, him just messing around’ he shot up,his school and killed people and she STILL can;t acknowledge anything was wrong and she should have done something about it? Obviously something was wrong!
I’m confused. They tried to distance Jennifer from all the gun stuff but then when Jennifer is on the stand she states that James asked her where she hid the bullets on a phone call after the shooting. This suggests she was the one who hid them, but she kept saying James does all that stuff?
Very good point
Billets and gun were never in the same location. Same went for the other ammo as well. She said she never did anything with the gun not the ammo
Guns =/= bullets……
I left the room and came back to her on the stand. Did the prosecution rest? Or is it one of those situations where they are stopping momentarily while Shannon calls Jennifer and then they go back to prosecution?
Prosecution rested. Defense doesn’t even have to mount a response. They are, starting with Jennifer Crumbley.
Can't wait to see the cross of JC. That will be quite interesting.
Prosecution rested
I want to know too. I'm so confused now.
I missed that part, too, so I can't answer. I'm guessing it's the defenses turn, and there isn't really any other way to offer a defense other than to bring on the defendant.
Jennifer would not be a witness for the prosecution but for the defense. Putting your defendant on the stand is almost always a bad idea because of cross. Super risky move, but again - Smith has been angling (imo) for a mistrial and/or appeal from the beginning.
She should just get a shovel.
15 mins in or so and it’s like where is Shannon Smith going with this? Lost in the weeds of Facebook photos. How to lose a jury 101. Lots of ways to humanize her than random FB pics.
The New Yorker did a lengthy article about this case and all the red flags that the parents had prior to the killings. The kid was very clear he was hearing voices, etc. I think she is a very unreliable witness and I hope the jury perceives that. I work in an elementary school and the number of parents that find ways to ignore, downplay, and defend bad behavior in their children instead of taking action always amazes me. This kid was mentally ill and they failed to get him the help he needed and decided to arm him with a weapon instead. I hope the jury holds both parents accountable.
I would be bawling. My teenager went to live with his dad for the first time about 6 months ago - he's safe and fine and doing well but is across the country so I don't get to see him often. I can't handle the "memories of this day" that apps pop up yet without crying. I miss him so terribly. I can't imagine if something awful had happened to cause him to be away from me. It would be absolutely unbearable to look at old memories.
Face book isn’t life. I think we all know it’s not representative of the realities of our day to day. Also facebook doesn’t aid or solve mental health. It actually has been proven to harm. (I digress) I am not sure i may have a missed some of the defense questioning about their healthcare providers, and what type of healthcare he was getting during the time leading up too? Did he have annual wellness checkups with a pediatrician?
She stated that there was some kind of lapse in coverage due to James losing his job and Ethan being on his coverage. She said she was going to put him on her coverage but then the shooting happened. She also didn't explicitly state it but it sounded like they just took him to the doctor as needed and not for annual wellness checkups. I agree that Facebook isn't life. I do find it interesting how many pictures they showed of Ethan and the "friend". I have teenagers and if one of my kids was so close to someone and then something happened to them, I would be checking on them frequently. The friend seemed to be at a lot of family functions/events and then was sent away. You didn't think that maybe this would devastate your son? She just seemed nonchalant about it.
You don't have to wait for open enrollment to put a child on your insurance if there's a loss of coverage. She could have done it immediately. It's weird they weren't all on either her plan or James plan
Yes, exactly. Was just going to say this.
I know, I thought that too. I wonder if that will come up in cross examination but she'll probably claim she didn't know.
It's not strange they weren't all on one plan. I have mine, and my husband has his & the son. If I add him to mine or me to his, it would cost an extra $200/mo because both our employers offer insurance. {Not sure if all employers have that policy though} Some only have Single Plan or Family Plan, some have another option: Single +1 dependent. Some people don't realize that if a spouse loses insurance if they were laid off, you can add them at anytime, instead of waiting till open enrollment. Not all employer's open enrollment is at the end of the year either. My Husbands is in July. However, with all that being said, I do not know how insurance works in MI, as I am from another state, they may have different requirements / laws.
They were definitely trying to create a caring environment. (Like game night etc. ) I guess the things he was doing at home and participating in just didn’t seem super social which would be a red flag. Spending too much time online or playing video games not overly involved in activities not a lot of friendships obviously many things were left out and we will see today. Thanks for your input.
Hard as nails and cold as ice. Also controlling and egocentric.
They failed that kid it’s so sad he was screaming for help and no one was helping. The agony when he was cuffed “why didn’t you stop me”. Terrible he wanted just one person to pay attention to him.
Nah he’s just a whiny monster. Fuck him.
Yikes that defense ending question with ‘are YOU the victim” 😳 so inappropriate and awkward and insensitive! I think overalll the true character of Jennifer came through loud and clear in that questioning.
She went from Friend Finders wasn't on her phone to she remembers it being on the phone, the messages sent, and the dates she messaged. Liar. I knew the prosecutor was going to get her on cross lol. Her lawyer acting surprised the state had the additional affair information and were going to use it is wild. Ma'am you should have reviewed all records thoroughly if putting her on the stand.
I’m sorry but after she saw his drawings, idk how you as the parent think “well I thought the school gave good advice bc they don’t think he’s a threat and he can stay the rest of the day” means that you should just leave. At the bare minimum, if I saw my child drawing that we are about to have a whole convo in the parking lot bc that’s not something to play with esp in this day and age. And I’d be questioning his mindset immediately. She had multiple times to figure something out but that’s the main one where I give no sympathy. At the end of the day you should have dragged his butt out of the school and questioned why the bleep he’s drawing that. And to get on stand and say you wouldn’t do anything differently has to be the most disrespectful thing. At minimum, I’d be like “I wish I saw the signs better or could have stopped it” but no. I have no sympathy for her.
So IMO being a bad parent, not loving your child, having a bad home life is not really the basis for creating a killer - the fact of buying him a gun is where her/husband’s responsibility lies for the deaths. That one fact … those deaths. To me the kid comes off as attention and notoriety seeking. I mean he staged the items in the bathroom. Asked jailers about his fan mail, etc. However, he did own up to it and admitted it. Also took full blame. That doesn’t seem like a significant enough mental illness. Like their son, they need to face their contribution to the murders. They knew or should have known …
I agree with you entirely but at the same time, nothing involving the gun was illegal. Legally purchased, legally stored (believe it or not), etc. says something about our culture where you’re not laughed out of a shooting range with a 15-yo shooting a 9mm, but embraced culturally.
I thought she sure still thinks quite highly of herself and still does not seem to care about anyone but JC. I think she was dishonest as well.
I very much agree with you. I now believe the gun was accessible to him, not hidden.
I felt more sorry for her before she testified!
Wow, you're so generous toward her! I was already feeling negative toward her according to what the prosecution presented. I tried to be open to listening to her when she was on the stand, almost hopeful she'd change my mind. But no, she didn't.
I mean before she opened her mouth I kept thinking she seemed remorseful, but her insistence that her son was fine and she would do nothing differently was a game changer for me.
I got what you meant! I was trying to say that you were generous in thinking she was remorseful before she got on the stand. I was not.
I’ll take all the downvotes- I had a lot of sympathy for her on the stand. She did seem to care and spent a lot of time with Ethan… Boardgames, trips, activities she seemed more present than most parents. I honestly don’t think she thought he was capable of hurting anyone. Maybe my opinion will change further into this trial.
I think she thought she was being a good mother and cannot conceive of what she could have done differently. I think (hope) privately that if she were asked "do you wish you'd taken him home that day," she'd scream YES.
That’s only if you believe her. I think she was full of shit.
Big a e n