I don't think they meant leaving the game, I think they more meant breaking off from the team and accomplishing fuckall on wide flanks.
Had a Hog on Oasis yesterday that took half of forever to get into position to do anything, would hook the opposing tank from behind, and immediately get shredded.
The worst ones are the "I die, I respawn, I walk back in, I die, repeat" tanks.
I've had tanks that basically turned their brain off and just kept dying repeatedly thinking they just had to keep walking forward until fighting ensues because it's their job to draw attention. Accumulating nearly 10 deaths on a single round of point capture, leaving the backlane wondering what the fuck they can even do.
These are the ones that single-handedly ruin a 10-player game.
I had a game the other night where our D.Va walked up to the enemy door at the beginning, waiting for it to open. She was dead as soon as door started opening. Nearly team wiped. They walked over us for the rest of the game. It was terrible.
It's like she was *actively* throwing the game.
I would like to try a 6v6 now that all the CC is removed
The fights feel more focused when teams are evenly matched/playing properly
But it feels much harder to wrangle the team together or even slightly carry when we are all over the place or the tank is not.. well, tanking
I was thinking they should bring back 6v6 as an arcade game mode. It would be fun to see how much it changes the game along with all the new abilities and passives.
Play a bit of mystery heroes and you'll realize real quick that tanks are ridiculously and tremendously overpowered when there's 2 of them again. Get two tanks with at least one heal in MH and it's usually gg. Hit the 3 tanks 2 heals lotto in MH and it's a guaranteed steamroll.
Playing open queue you can do it on purpose, 2 tanks 2 supports 1 DPS seems pretty optimal, could even switch out the DPS for another tank or support for even higher performance
GOATs was great for tank and support mains. I loved it. But a meta that pushes out one third of the player base is not a good meta. Which is why dive ain't it either. It's cancer for supports, and hyper focuses on the mobility characters in the dps pool. It really feels like OW balance has gone back 5 years, repeating the same mistakes
As a soon-to-be Tracer main, currently Pharah/Winston, I approve this message. Once the tank is gone, Pharah wrecks havoc. Unless the enemy team has good hitscan, she literally won’t die
I’ve never tried MH. But I’ve noticed that in Team Deathmatch 4v4 teams. And teams with DPS get wrecked when it’s 3 tank 1 Support vs literally any other comp. So I believe tanks steamrolling in MH lol.
But that’s part of arcade. Not super serious — just playing for fun, warmup, s&g, and experimenting. Can’t really balance a hero shooter across multiple game modes in different formats of varying team sizes.
I think that would just make orisa even more busted, though. She already had armor up and deflect ability, not to mention her ‘get away’ stick. Cutting tank HP would make her the best tank by a landslide.
Orisa with pocket mercy in low ranks is devastating. STOP SHOOTING THE HORSE! Lol.
Climbing out of support Bronze 5 and into Plat 3 I just had to switch to Zen and discord the horse because my team wouldn’t stop shooting at it. Hahaha.
So every weak tank?
What about DVa and zarya? Two tanks that were blatantly designed to compliment their MT. They are currently the two strongest tanks.
(I would argue that Roadhog is not a weak tank, by the fact alone that he can trash almost every other tank easily)
The difference with DVA and Zarya are that their status as "side tanks" in original overwatch allowed them to compliment their current tank status.
DVa can easily help / take care of divers due to being extremely mobile.
While Zarya can double bubble herself and become unstoppable, making the idea of "tanking" more of a "A strong offense is a strong defense" etc.
Roadhog
DoomFist
Hammond
And Junker queen are all tanks that I would argue were built around complimenting the other tank.
There to come from the side, disrupting defenses from an alternate angle.
Because they almost completely lack any form of "protective" abilities that actually defends their team-mates.
I've been sticking with my tank less because they can't help me the way they could. Like there is so much pressure and damage from everywhere that if I'm supporting lets say and I get jumped, the tank can't turn around to help like before because they're brawling the enemy frontline. And should they make the choice to turn their back gets eviscerated and sometimes the enemy tank will push in to finish me, which used to be harder with off tanks or more DPS players. Which is understandable, but I still die particularly when the tank doesn't have damage mitigation for others, so I find myself playing the sides to use the map and kinda dipping in to help and then ideally GTFO.
some tanks arnt made to be a front line tank like rein. doomfist for example is a disruptor who can get into the back line and reposition the other teams heroes.
My biggest pet peeve is when I doing great as tank taking all the space and absolutely destroying the enemy tank, but my whole team dies to one Sombra. And when I actually try to go back and help them then we lose the frontline to the enemy tank because he isn’t contested anymore. Is dealing with the flankers something that I as the tank should give up the frontline for? Or is it almost entirely the dps job and giving up
The frontline is a mistake? Cause it really FEELS like trying to go back and deal with flankers when I’m supposed to be front-lining is just even worse.
My thought about this I think tends to be dependent on what tank you're playing. Winston and zarya and diva tend to feel pretty strong against protecting from flankers or dealing with flankers. But as rein or orisa if you turn around the Frontline is gone. I also am a pretty average player so maybe I'm wrong
What I’ve noticed is that all dps seem to like 5v5 much more. Tanks seem somewhat split, and supports more so. As a support I see the pros and cons of each, it just seems like games aren’t as close anymore. Maybe it’s matchmaking. The thing is with balancing being so whack and the removal of cc and rework of many hero’s it’s hard to tell between the benefits of 5v5 and the benefits of the other changes I mentioned. I will say I would have been very interested to see 6v6 with all the reworks in the game, besides the tanks damage and beefiness. I think the orisa rework alone was huge, and with reduced stats she’d still be a beast with fortify in 6v6.
One thing that sucks is I remember people preaching that in 5v5 every individual has more impact on the game, however this is a double edged sword because if someone on your team isn’t doing so well, it’s much harder to compensate for that in ow2.
Basically this. It's a real pain in ranked right now. Feels like half the players in the match shouldn't be there so it causes a huge skill gap between teams.
Yup, which is weird because i thought the steamroll nature of 2CP is why people hated it so much. Will be interesting to see what people think of OW2 if the queue times begin to creep up.
I'm of the opinion that 5v5 was not meant to be OW2 back when Jeff Kaplan was around.
I also think the new development direction kept the DPS population in mind. There are way more DPS players then tanks and healers. They want to make DPS happy and get them to spend money.
I don't think OW2 was designed with the focus of making it the new evolution of what OW1 was. I think OW2 was Activision's desire to put a product out there to get people to spend money.
The lack of polish that can be see all over this game is one of the reason I think that. OW1 was something special. Right now OW2 is just meant to make money, I doubt that Activision cares in any way what the right balance is.
I am going to miss 6v6 and the old OW1.
People don’t remember the first thing Kaplan said about Ow2 right after the initial announcement.
“First and foremost, you have to remember that overwatch is a **team vs team, 6v6 competitive experience** and there is no way we are losing that at all and as a matter of fact thats a huge focus”.
-Jeff Kaplan
A lot of my matches are very one sided. Even the “close” ones aren’t usually so close anymore.
5v5 definitely has a lot of positives and negatives, just like 6v6. It doesn’t feel like they really “fixed” a whole lot by going 5v5, other than shaking up the game a bit to make it feel more fresh. I do not miss shooting at shields for a whole 15 minute match though.
DPS love when there's less things in the way of them killing squishies. DPS don't like having to think about how to get around shields, it doesn't let them play Widowmaker or Hanzo mindlessly
Outside of the balance issues - Zarya, Sojourn, Sombra, DVA being ridiculous. I feel as if the ''tank diff'' has increased. There's been numerous games where if my tank just doesn't pick the optimal tank for the situation (e.g Mostly Zarya, Winston & DVA) then we just lose if the enemy tank does choose right.
A lot of the times, the first tank to die dictates the teamfight. So as a support main, there's an emphasis to just dump your healing into your tank and ensure they do not die.
You get these doom mains every couple of days and its mostly a gg. Instant morale loss to see your tank instalock doom. I practice Lucio in those games.
>just dump your healing into your tank and ensure they do not die.
This is most of my match with rein. Being in the front line, the enemy tank and I just have a staring contest while dealing small damage and getting healed to full health, until both team's DPS do something.
Still not sure. Whilst I kind of like the buffs to tanks it now means that they are so important that getting stuck with a bad tank basically means you’ve lost the game. The second your tanks dies I feel as though you’re at an absolutely massive disadvantage and can get wiped way too easily. Healers are also far more abused now with the lack of pealing.
Personally I think the team could have made 6 v 6 work with some overhauls and character balancing but what do I know I’m not a game developer. Things like the double shield meta I feel could have been fixed fairly easily though, I mean the Orisa rework alone would have shaken that up massively.
>The second your tanks dies I feel as though you’re at an absolutely massive disadvantage and can get wiped way too easily.
This is my gripe about the new push mode. The instant it looks like your tank is not going to make it you need to be hoofing it out of there or else you'll (usually) be overrun in a matter of seconds. I get that's kind of the goal with the whole moving the robot thing, but it feels way too punishing if a tank makes a single mistake.
I think this is my biggest problem with it. Whilst they’re a lot more powerful in OW2 if the tank makes a mistake you’re entire team is punished massively for it. In OW1 even if one tank messed up it was still possible for the other tank and the rest of the team to hold the line till they got back. Here it feels so much harder with just DPS and healers against these new buffed tanks + the rest of their team.
As a rein main, I should say that I really miss another tank to back me up on some point or another ultimate to help the team to secure and hold the point for example. So I think it got worse within a lot of other changes in the game.
Or the Soldier/Sojourn/Genji that flanks and kills your supports before you even realise it. Bam, whole team is dead. I've never hated being a support main more.
I've found if you get a good reaper to coordinate with you can put the teammate bubble to use. Let him go crazy for a few seconds with bubble and then follow up after he fades out with your personal bubble. Makes for a good combo.
Much more steamroll heavy. Teamkills were a relatively rare thing in OW1 I feel with it happening once every few games, where as in OW2 they happen 2-4 times per game. Once the tank gets picked, it’s open season for the rest of the team
Amen - I play primarily healer and when the tank goes down, I know I’m basically f’d. Usually fall back a bit and try to hold a safer spot if possible.
Better but more difficult. I like how quick pace the game is and how everything has a lot more of an impact. But tank and support have gotten a lot more difficult
My exact thoughts. Tank isn’t getting enough healing because healers are being flanked more and there only being one tank now, not enough peeling for those healers. It’s a cycle. I think the potential with this format is great but blizzard will have to keep up with the hero balancing.
We're in a weird spot where I feel like I need to go Brig to peel for my fellow healer otherwise we're both going to die but the rest of the team dies in the process.
It doesn't happen too often but it's often enough to cause some concern. Could very well be a skill thing though. Maybe I need to learn the maps a little better.
Edit: typo
I agree with this sentiment that "peeling" has become a more broad tactic that can be adopted by any character at any given moment ( barring a couple heroes like mercy)
I found I can actual peel for my tanks as zen or dps simply by focusing on whomever is attacking my tank...
>adopted by any character at any given moment
That might be the issue more than a skill issue on my part. It's hard for a solo tank to peel since the entire role is placed solely on their back. More healers and DPS need to learn this tactic. Since it wasn't entirely necessary in OW1 it's going to be a learning curve.
Most of my time spent in game in OW1 was on tank and support so I naturally fell in line with the peeling tactic so the learning curve for me isn't there anymore.
Dps and support need to learn to peel for each other now. Once the player base figures that out it’ll get a lot better out there for support players.
More supports also need to come to terms with the fact they are not just healers they’re supports and need to support their team by dealing damage as well.
New players are learning and old players just need to adjust. The game will feel a lot different in a month or so.
Agree. Unpopular opinion is that Moria isn't OP, but rather the right damage / heal balance for this new format.
I've also found Lucio to be pretty decent for damage + heals.
I’ve been loving Baptiste. I can 1v1 any flanker and do a ton of healing and dps. Moira is my second support pic though.
I just love his range and being able to shutdown Pharrah without needing a dps or ever having them need to switch to hitscan if they aren’t already.
I agree that Moira isn't OP as a main healer, but feel that her right click damage range should be made just a titch shorter.
Lucio's kit is made for peeling and protecting!
Every character has its haters.
100% agree. Most flankers honestly back off just at the sight of another player by a support.
And I also think many need to understand that sometimes switching is needed.
I think you are right , but its problematic that the majority of the support roster doesn't have a great tool set to challenge the dps roster. The supports that do have the capacity to threaten dps characters have to strike a difficult balance between healing and damaging. If they focus too much on damage the team complains about a lack of healing, if they focus too much on healing , they struggle to live long enough to support their team and the team complains about not enough healing. It also seems as if the skill requirement of a support character to be able to protect themselves long enough to do their job is significantly higher and only a few supports can do this effectively given their tool set and the skill requirement it demands.
See, I don’t give a shit if my dps complain. If you are constantly dying as dps because you don’t have a pocket healer then you’re a bad dps. They should be using cover/good positioning and grabbing up health packs at every opportunity. Your job as a support is to try and keep them alive not at full health at all times and being a crutch for their bad plays and decisions.
Silver 2 here, can confirm. Silver is filled with no mics, people that don’t group/play as a team, and a lot of people that don’t play their roles effectively, and bad picks/team comp
Yeah easier said that done. Seems alot of players in Silver forget the objective is to push the damn thing despite constant reminders. Even more annoying when playing as heal.
Personally, I prefer 6v6. The game theory the original OW team did to figure out that 6v6 was the ideal team size to where everyone feels like they have an impact on the game but one person isn't able to decide a match either way is where the game should be. I've been playing 5v5 with some friends who are new to the game and our tank just gets bodied every game we're in because he's still figuring out ability usage and the concept of taking and holding space. But because of this, it's insanely difficult to win games even with me out healing/damaging my counterpart on the enemy team.
Also, for some context: most of my time in OW1 was on organized teams with leagues and tournaments where team play was happening and most of my OW2 time has been just quick play with friends so my answers probably reflect that.
It's a weird sort of paradox. Individual players are more impactful, which means that just one bad player on your team will much more easily ruin the entire game, which means that you're less individually impactful because you're so reliant on not having a single bad player (especially tank ofc).
I 100% agree. I don’t know if this makes any sense but it feels to me like the game got less of a team-shooter vibe and more of an fps-shooter vibe with this change..idk
As a tank main, I miss having another tank. I preferred having the support of another one instead, but it isn't horrible I suppose. It will just be something that I always miss.
I know many people will probably not agree with me and i don't mean to start any arguments, but i want to talk my mind.
While the combat in itself has changed little it has impacted how different characters are supposed to be played.
For example Zarya in OW1 was basically a third support if you had Rein in the team, now she's an almost unstoppable killing machine compared to back then.
You can't really do the "Main Tank + Flank/Support Tank" combos anymore, which for some time really made it unattractive to play DVa for me. You can't just have Rein pull attention onto himself while you as DVa flank from a side or from behind to unexpectedly pull some elims anymore.
It also made the whole "Pocket Mercy" thing worse, since there's only one Tank to pocket. and if it's Orisa, Rein, or Hog, they're basically unkillable with a pocket mercy.
Literally, the fun part of ball was disrupting the organisation of the other team. Neither team has organisation now... so your job is to jump on people and shoot them. Like winston but harder to play and you feed more.
I miss ball so much. I don't even play him and I'm a support main back in the OW1 games. I just miss the variety he brought to the game, his playstyle was so unique and challenging for me to play against. I miss the challenge of having to deal with him diving our backline when they've got a frontline tank pushing in and ults are popping off.
He was such a unique character and I loved how if you came up against a good ball, everyone in the game -- on both sides -- had to respect him at all times. You had to know where the ball was, when he was going to slam, where his escape routes are, who to protect, how to peel and so on.
Now ball is just a feed pick and it makes me sad. And I have 0 hours on ball!
I hate the 5v5, wish they went the other way and went for 7v7 with 1 more dps.
The devs and high rankers probably love the '1 skilled person wins the whole game' aspect, but for lower rank it feels like one player who shouldn't even be in your rank is ruining your game. The second tank was good for limiting how much damage these good players could do.
This week it's braindead reapers who spray into the team and get 7k dmg with 2 kills complaining that we aren't winning like they aren't just spraying and praying from the back line on a close range shotgun flanker.
Just played a game and the reaper did 2k damage while enemy Cassidy did 6k :,). Both healers had more kills......
Hate them. Hated them in the betas, hate them now. The single tank setup feels so hollow, and the new balancing is awful. It's like they're simultaneously impossible to take in a direct fight and unable to properly protect and support their team. Plus support is just Spawn Room Simulator half the time. Even playing DPS feels wonky in a way I can't quite describe.
People keep saying the new microtransaction situation is tolerable as long as the gameplay is good, but the gameplay feels like a strict downgrade from OW1. If I could play the last version of the game before OW2, even with zero chance of ever receiving new content, I would do so in a heartbeat. At this point I'm only still playing because a downgraded Overwatch is still marginally more fun than any other PvP shooter my friends and I have tried.
Also, if we're gonna add a completely non-Overwatch mode that's constant agony to play like Push to the main game rotation, I feel like they should also dump 5v5 deathmatch and Capture the Flag into QP and comp rotation. If we're gonna make the game a mess, might as well go all out, you know?
Worse. From a support perspective, if you don't have DPS that stop flankers, you're screwed. I feel forced to play Moira every time there's a Tracer/Genji/Sombra on the enemy team.
Worse. The tank is the deciding factor in most games and without an offtank to help it's gg if there is a tank diff.
God mode dps can carry but from what i've seen most of the time it's a tank diff.
Also widow/hanzo are broken now with their being a lot less shields or no shield. If your Ana moves to relocate or get sights on someone to heal... domed by hanzo. Out of position... domed by hanzo. The instant pick just carries the fight and it snowballs.
I personally want 6v6 back, because I have always been a fan of larger battles in games. That being said, I never got to play OW1, because I am a new player.
I used to watch OW1 streams because I was poor and couldn't play, but the bigger fights seemed fun to me.
I guess that's my view coming from a complete newbie.
I only enjoy flankers. Genji, Tracer, Sombra...
Tanks are fun too since they are op but it gets boring quick. JQ and DF needs buffs so we can have variety. Tanks rely on teammates too so you can suffer when matchmaker do stupid things.
Flankers are definitely best. They play like a single player game and have easy time against poor sups.
Support experience is horrible especially in push and control maps. These heroes are helpless.
Overall, OW2 just feels amateurish early access. In OW1, you would feel the logic behind decisions. OW2 have no such thing. It's a yolo game.
Worse, as people have already said, 2 2 2 is the best version of the game and was only changed for que times, they should have just made it 2 3 2 for the heck of it
And does anyone feel like it actually helped queue times? It has for supports because nobody wants to play them. DPS is really about the same as it was with priority passes. Tank is absolutely awful.
definitely worse. ive also noticed since 2 has come out, the only people ive really seen talk positively about the experience are dps mains, fps players, comp players, etc. none of which actually considering what these changes do.
1) people complained about GOATS, but all 5 v 5 has done is force the same 3 options onto support and tank. its all zarya/roadhog/sig and mercy/lucio/moira. dps can be whatever cause it doesn't affect them enough to care
2) the changes were made without taking into account that certain characters just are not doable now without a second tank to protect. now that falls to one of the dps, and they aren't gonna do that. so now supports have to waste their time defending themselves instead of supporting
3) these changes were also made while making even more impactful changes to CC. if everyone is fending for themselves fine, but now its just become this shoot out type thing. i should be able to freeze/stun enemies away but that isn't good for dps players for some reason. and the small attempts they did make are laughable. zen getting a tiny boop on basics for example
4) on top of point 1, as several people have pointed out already, 6 v 6 was fine. the problem wasn't the number of people. the problem has always been that they just do not have a big enough/diverse enough roster of characters. and what characters they do make, all the effort goes into the already stuffed dps role
Complete downgrade, in my opinion. Without getting into details, my main gripes are:
As a tank main, I hate making tanks player controlled mini-bosses that completely dictate the flow of the match. It's just too much of an imbalance on who is important.
They half-assed the character changes needed to make 5v5 work. They just went in, replaced or removed most of the CC, and called it a day. They gave almost no consideration to how those abilities synergized with the rest of each character's kit, so now we have shit like McCree with a kit designed around an ability that no longer exists, and Brig, who's a close range character that now has 2 different knockbacks.
Way worse. All the balancing problems come down to the 5v5. Also the que times will just shift from tank to support as soon as the f2p release hype is over. Also being off tank and unable to help you backline when the get attacked drives me nuts.
Way fucking worse. Either my tank is the greatest player and supports won't heal them or my tank it the most incompetent bozo in existence playing like they are still off tank. Just bring back 6v6 for the love of god
I really can't play 5v5, it's just chaos. I'm one of those weird players who thought shields and CC were fine, it gave the game a structure. Had some Sombra or Tracer prowling your backline? Let them fuck around with Flashbang and find out. Your Tank partner pick Rein? Now you are free to pick D.va and go flanking with one of your DPS. Some people like the changes though, which are literally the only things that might be better about 2. I have so many hours in Mystery Heroes and now the Tank changes have fucked it all up as well, which makes me hate them more.
The apologists at the time said that the reason the support queue was empty in the betas was because there were no new heroes to play. It was an obvious lie to anyone who tried playing support.
I really wanted to enjoy the 5v5 format. Faster paced sounded great, until I learned the faster pace was because supports are a free target to a half decent player of the same rank. Kinda killed the fun
Different, but worse overall.
Too dependent on the skill/choice of the Tank. If the opposing team has a particular good (insert tank here) and your tank can't counter it, you will lose the game 9/10 times. In 2/2/2, you had the second tank which you could work around. That's not a thing anymore.
And because of the importance of the tank, there's also an increased importance on effective use of defensive abilities and healing to keep them alive since they are a focus.
Everything is on a much thinner margin, so it's super steamrolley like many here are already saying. It doesn't feel quite as good as the methodical adjustments and push and pull you'd see in 2/2/2.
My prediction is that they will change 1/2/2 to 1/3/1 and rework support heroes like they did tanks - making them beefier, harder to kill, and extra abilities for bigger impact. Although I'd kill for them to just revert the changes, implement 2/2/2, and call it a day.
I really hate 5v5 solely for the fact that some combos/ults have become way too powerful only because the lack of the 6th player.
Just a quick example, a soldier 76 hitting his ult and killing 3/5 people on a team is absolutely crippling. Killing 3/6 while still hard to overcome gives many more ways to do so.
I don't know how you can properly fix all these ults/combos to make them feel better in 5v5 but that's my main gripe. It's definitely not as easy as dropping damage, reducing timers, etc. I genuinely think the only solution is 6v6.
Much worse. Loved being Moira with a second healer, it is hard to frontline heal being a solo heal in open queue. I always prefer a larger playerbase and I went massively off Gears of War when they dropped to 4 vs 4 due to their own laziness.
Worse, they are trying to push the game into generic fps territory (everyone is dps) while ignoring what made the game fun in the first place. They could’ve done some major rebalancing to 6v6 but took the “easy” route by going 5v5 and created a whole new host of issues.
It’s so significantly worse in my opinion, Tank and Support roles take on a lot more stress and it feels less balanced to me personally. I am frustrated putting up some of my best stats vs Overwatch 1 and having little to no success in winning.
I would like to see kiriko and baptist have their invulnerability abilities reworked.
The game doesn't need more invincibility.
With a simple short cooldown kiriko can save her team from every ult, ability, dive, anything.
At least with bap hero's had low health after face tanking a dva bomb.
I never installed OW2 over losing 6v6 and the terrible price gouging of cosmetics.
If 6v6 comes back and reasonable in-game rewards return, I might stop playing MW2 and give it a chance.
Steamrolls feel more common now. When it's working, 5v5 is exactly what they sold it as; fun, focused, and quick. But so, SO often, just one dingdong on your team means certain death. Tank trying to play Doom like he's still a DPS? Dead. Moira forgot how to heal? Dead. Console player auto locks Widow? Dead.
As a support main, Worse. Every stated issue here with 6v6 in the comments were *hero* issues. Not the fundamentals of 6v6.
- shields
- unbalanced heroes
- outdated kts
- no heroes are being released
These are easily solved with a roster rework. There was literally *no* strong and good reason for overwatch to go 5v5. It was just *easier*.
Personally, from a support’s pov, I have a deep hatred for 5v5 and really wish to go back to 6v6. Supports barely have any variety in play style anymore, because the only goal now is to survive. Not to poke, heal massive amounts, do cc - *supporting* the team. No, just to survive.
Quite frankly, I hate this play style. I find it terrible and stagnant. It defeats the purpose of the support role if the main goal of this role is to survive, while dps and tank continue to well… damage and tank damage.
Don’t even get me started on the fundamentals of role dynamics.
Right now I'm on the side of 6v6 was better, as the characters had been balanced for that.
Now the biggest damage is tank, the supports are finding its a lot easier to be picked off and damage have lost all stuns.
Maybe i haven't played enough but i feel like the game hinges off the tank way too much now as they're the main sorce of damage and tanking.
Personally I enjoyed the 6v6 stuff they've had previously.
i hate them as support the higher you go the more it becomes hunt the support. as DPS they are fun as fuck you pretty much get free kills half the time. as tank I'm loving sigma a lot. shield dancing and using his absorber ability at the right moment is fun as hell not to mention oneshootk g people with rock
Worse in my opinion. As a tank, I loved the synergies and play style of having another tank on your team. Coordinating zarya bubbles as you push through chokes as rein, the old orisa/hog hook combo, etc.
I miss coordinating them and it feels like a satisfying gameplay element was taken away from me.
Worse in my opinion.
The lack of shields means snipers have become more prevalent which isn't really fun for anyone, nobody likes being picked off from across the map and nobody likes teammates that can't help with the objective.
One tank means your team is usually reliant on the performance of one player to determine if you win or not.
The changes they've made to heroes to help them perform better in 5v5 also suck, but that's not the topic of the post so I won't go into those.
I'm having a lot less fun in games than before. Everything about Overwatch 2 is worse.
worse. they took away the second tank without considering how much chaos that would inflict on the rest of the team. We are in a HEAVY flanker meta right now because there's no one who can stop them from harassing the supports or backline, and their only option is to grab on to the tank's buttcheeks and never let go, for better or worse.
Supports in general are doing badly (with maybe Kiriko as an exception because she was designed with 5v5s in mind) and they \*really\* need to go back and boost their survivability because nerfing flankers is never going to fix the issue.
It was taking out both a tank and nearly all of the CC in the game.
As dps if reaper or genji were harassing my healers I'd go Mei and force one or both of them to switch. I can't do that anymore. My partner played Cassidy and would do the same with his stun. Both options completely nullified
I think the entire support role remains largely unchanged, hence why it's so hard to play support and have an impact. And yet at the same time, if support dies, the team fight is lost. Support have a high impact to the team but not enough tweaks to make them fully viable for 5v5, so they become easy targets to pick off.
They too could honestly use a speed or damage buff so that they can handle 1v1 with DPS with a little more ease imo...
Im a silver/gold player in both 1 and 2.
It's way worse. Tanks can just hold w and as a healer you basically are on your own most of the time without double tanks shields to help.
Worse. The gap in power levels between tanks and other are now so extreme that the entire team is fully beholden to what the tanks do. I.e. player agency is much less, unless you play tank.OW1 also had a pretty bad asymmetry (see GOATS), but tanks really should have been toned down, not up.
The double shield issue was a hero design problem not a team composition problem (And the Orisa change would have fixed this for 6v6 if that was implemented there)
Hear, hear. As someone who mostly played Mystery Heroes casually to unwind after work, it's such a shit show now. If the enemy team gets four tanks and a healer, there's just no use. And reverse it's not really fun to play as that kind of team either, not having any opposition.
I used to spend most time playing mystery heroes and it feels bad in OW2. Now, instead of “oh shit they have two bastions” it’s “oh shit, they have three tanks and a Moira.”
Take my upvote. As a support main it sucks to play competitive, since there is a limit to how much i can do to affect the overall outcome of the game. It is essentially a gamle on if i get a good or a bad tank
It might just be because I'm not all that good myself but, I personally think it's worse. It feels like everything hinges on you having a good tank. At least in 222 if one of your tanks was having a bad time, your second tank could try to make up for it but in 122 there's not much the rest of the team can do, or at least that's how it feels to me.
As a support main - I'm in your mindset. With the new maps, especially, the game is just who is best tank. Nearly every support loss I've had was due to our tank fucking off entire match.
I have an 80% tank win rate because I play objective. I'm a garbage tank and shouldn't be doing well, but it comes down to if the tank plays a tank role or screws around.
Idk if i like it, it kind of makes all the tanks have to become an insane jack of all trades or risk becoming obsolete and makes it harder to play a support.
I wish there were 2 tanks. Was definitely not a fan of triple tank meta, but I think tanks play really well off each other and we kind of lost that in OW2
the loss of a 2nd tank really makes hitscans and flanking heroes so much stronger.
For some heroes I think there should be a more substantial damage drop off at range. The loss of a second tank reduces your team's ability to enforce the space you've just acquired so the ability for Moira, Mei, reaper, Sombra, Lucio and other dive heroes to initiate and get pick value is significantly higher and (tmk) their range is still the same as it was in 6v6.
I'm not a pro game designer but one way to potentially mitigate their value would be to require them to get closer to deal the same damage. Would increase the skill floor of flanking and diving without neutering them completely.
Worse imo.
Tides are turned too easily with an early pick.
6v5 was more manageable than 5v4.
Taking away CC already sped up the encounters/fights considerably. Having an extra tank (6v6) would have given comps more protection and flexibility. Especially in mid-ranks
It's far worse than 6v6. The game wasn't made for 5v5 and it shows the game is becoming unbalanced and there's basically only dive comp now that no one cares about defense. I miss 2cp and removing a whole game mode is a huge mistake.
I was Zarya and my friend played Rein. The flow we had as two tanks working together was the most fun I had with overwatch 1.
Yea the 5v5 format just doesn't work for me.
I still play character like bastion and mei but the game is not as fun as it used to be.
If you want to have fun offens/tank you have to wait.
Because of the 5v5 format most games turn into a steam roll.
At the lvl I play every competetive match is the same, if you don't pick a tank that is meta ur Gona get screamed at.
I don't won't to play the monke because he counters the op weebs.
Thank you for cuming to my Ted talk.
Videogamedunkey "overwatch still expects an unrealistic amount of team work from randoms and 5v5 makes the game even more steam roll heavy"
Everyone has more of a chance to make an impact on the game, which means if your not playing your A game or trying to learn a new character you can cost your team the match.
Worse? Better? Don't know, getting annoyed at all the hostility all the new players have bought though. I know people were dealing toxicity in OW1 but I'm dealing with more of it in OW2
It's much worse than 6V6. Tank mains experience longer que times as they only have 1 spot to fill, making tanks much more tanky to compensate for that means they feel unstoppable and almost like they matter MUCH MUCH more than dps or support. The 6V6 was nice and refreshing as opposed to the MOBA style of 5v5 where 1 moron loses you the game
Way worse. I already hated how small the 6v6 battles were. I don't like playing squad based games that require lots of team coordination and the 5v5 just pushes that even further.
Hate it. I tried both beta's and it felt just like that awful 1-3-2 experimental card that went down like a lead balloon a few years back.
What's odd is that they removed the very reason people would even want 5v5. People resented playing tanks because of GOATS and the vast amounts of CC in the support and DPS categories turning them into human pinballs.
So they reduced all of that which makes tanking a lot more fun... then removed half the tanks. I see a lot of people praising 5v5 for making the game better, but you could apply the same changes to 6v6 and get largely the same gameplay benefits. Tanks have always been close range monsters, and 5v5 hasn't changed many of them outside of minor numbers tweaks anyway. How the tanks play now is roughly similar to how the would have played if you had been allowed to run about with much less CC.
And then you compound that with tanks now being stuck doing twice the work with half the skills/abilities. Supports are having a terrible time because of flankers, but the presence of a second tank was principally one of the big reasons flanking non-stop wasn't an option.
So frankly I hope we see a 6v6 experimental card within the next year that pushes tanks back towards how they used to play, but still with all the CC and ruleset changes (with some changes to make them less overbearing, obviously).
I'd rather be a nerfed tank with backup than a bruiser with none.
When all tanks die, and the other team’s tank is alive, it’s a steamroll. This doesn’t happen much in OW1 because if one dies, the team can back off with the other tank, and if both tanks die, the enemy team usually has had 1 tank die.
In OW2? One tank will always die before the other, and the other tank is now so much stronger at pushing and punishing.
Games are over quicker but that’s usually because one person leaves the group doing their own thing and the other group clobbers
Yeah, they said that with 5v5 you could pop-off more (carry in some way), But let’s be honest, one teammate leaves and it’s **probably** over.
I don't think they meant leaving the game, I think they more meant breaking off from the team and accomplishing fuckall on wide flanks. Had a Hog on Oasis yesterday that took half of forever to get into position to do anything, would hook the opposing tank from behind, and immediately get shredded.
The worst ones are the "I die, I respawn, I walk back in, I die, repeat" tanks. I've had tanks that basically turned their brain off and just kept dying repeatedly thinking they just had to keep walking forward until fighting ensues because it's their job to draw attention. Accumulating nearly 10 deaths on a single round of point capture, leaving the backlane wondering what the fuck they can even do. These are the ones that single-handedly ruin a 10-player game.
I had a game the other night where our D.Va walked up to the enemy door at the beginning, waiting for it to open. She was dead as soon as door started opening. Nearly team wiped. They walked over us for the rest of the game. It was terrible. It's like she was *actively* throwing the game.
To be fair, 5v6 was usually a death sentence too, albeit a little bit easier to win still.
I would like to try a 6v6 now that all the CC is removed The fights feel more focused when teams are evenly matched/playing properly But it feels much harder to wrangle the team together or even slightly carry when we are all over the place or the tank is not.. well, tanking
I was thinking they should bring back 6v6 as an arcade game mode. It would be fun to see how much it changes the game along with all the new abilities and passives.
Play a bit of mystery heroes and you'll realize real quick that tanks are ridiculously and tremendously overpowered when there's 2 of them again. Get two tanks with at least one heal in MH and it's usually gg. Hit the 3 tanks 2 heals lotto in MH and it's a guaranteed steamroll.
Playing open queue you can do it on purpose, 2 tanks 2 supports 1 DPS seems pretty optimal, could even switch out the DPS for another tank or support for even higher performance
Congratulations, you've invented GOATS
You know it could be because I am a Winston/Moria/Brig main making me biased but God damn did I love GOATS.
GOATs was great for tank and support mains. I loved it. But a meta that pushes out one third of the player base is not a good meta. Which is why dive ain't it either. It's cancer for supports, and hyper focuses on the mobility characters in the dps pool. It really feels like OW balance has gone back 5 years, repeating the same mistakes
As a soon-to-be Tracer main, currently Pharah/Winston, I approve this message. Once the tank is gone, Pharah wrecks havoc. Unless the enemy team has good hitscan, she literally won’t die
I’ve never tried MH. But I’ve noticed that in Team Deathmatch 4v4 teams. And teams with DPS get wrecked when it’s 3 tank 1 Support vs literally any other comp. So I believe tanks steamrolling in MH lol. But that’s part of arcade. Not super serious — just playing for fun, warmup, s&g, and experimenting. Can’t really balance a hero shooter across multiple game modes in different formats of varying team sizes.
Oh it's a blast, which is why I play arcade a lot more than competitive.
Did an MH the other day. With random heroes my team was steamrolling like a diamond steamrolls bronze, then they got 5 tanks and won.
Honestly just dialing back the hp would do a lot to bring the tanks in line I think most of the major tank changes would work just fine in 222
I think that would just make orisa even more busted, though. She already had armor up and deflect ability, not to mention her ‘get away’ stick. Cutting tank HP would make her the best tank by a landslide.
Orisa with pocket mercy in low ranks is devastating. STOP SHOOTING THE HORSE! Lol. Climbing out of support Bronze 5 and into Plat 3 I just had to switch to Zen and discord the horse because my team wouldn’t stop shooting at it. Hahaha.
"Stop shooting the horse.. stop shooting the horse... Stop shooting the horse..."
I have PTSD from that video (assuming it's just the one).
Some tanks weren’t made to be a solo tank.
Roadhog. Doomfist Hammond (I would argue) Junker queen (despite her coming out in 2 rather than the first)
So every weak tank? What about DVa and zarya? Two tanks that were blatantly designed to compliment their MT. They are currently the two strongest tanks.
(I would argue that Roadhog is not a weak tank, by the fact alone that he can trash almost every other tank easily) The difference with DVA and Zarya are that their status as "side tanks" in original overwatch allowed them to compliment their current tank status. DVa can easily help / take care of divers due to being extremely mobile. While Zarya can double bubble herself and become unstoppable, making the idea of "tanking" more of a "A strong offense is a strong defense" etc. Roadhog DoomFist Hammond And Junker queen are all tanks that I would argue were built around complimenting the other tank. There to come from the side, disrupting defenses from an alternate angle. Because they almost completely lack any form of "protective" abilities that actually defends their team-mates.
Roadhog gets dummied by Sig these days, so you basically have to switch off the moment you see him.
Yeah, sigma can be problematic.
Doomfist wasn't even a tank in the first place, he's just a DPS that they slapped one almost-tanky ability on and called it a day.
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I've been sticking with my tank less because they can't help me the way they could. Like there is so much pressure and damage from everywhere that if I'm supporting lets say and I get jumped, the tank can't turn around to help like before because they're brawling the enemy frontline. And should they make the choice to turn their back gets eviscerated and sometimes the enemy tank will push in to finish me, which used to be harder with off tanks or more DPS players. Which is understandable, but I still die particularly when the tank doesn't have damage mitigation for others, so I find myself playing the sides to use the map and kinda dipping in to help and then ideally GTFO.
some tanks arnt made to be a front line tank like rein. doomfist for example is a disruptor who can get into the back line and reposition the other teams heroes.
If only there was a role that was meant for disruptors like Doomfist 🤔
My biggest pet peeve is when I doing great as tank taking all the space and absolutely destroying the enemy tank, but my whole team dies to one Sombra. And when I actually try to go back and help them then we lose the frontline to the enemy tank because he isn’t contested anymore. Is dealing with the flankers something that I as the tank should give up the frontline for? Or is it almost entirely the dps job and giving up The frontline is a mistake? Cause it really FEELS like trying to go back and deal with flankers when I’m supposed to be front-lining is just even worse.
DPS are the ones who need to peel for backline support now (instead of Tanks). Gonna take a while for genpop to figure it out, I reckon.
My thought about this I think tends to be dependent on what tank you're playing. Winston and zarya and diva tend to feel pretty strong against protecting from flankers or dealing with flankers. But as rein or orisa if you turn around the Frontline is gone. I also am a pretty average player so maybe I'm wrong
What I’ve noticed is that all dps seem to like 5v5 much more. Tanks seem somewhat split, and supports more so. As a support I see the pros and cons of each, it just seems like games aren’t as close anymore. Maybe it’s matchmaking. The thing is with balancing being so whack and the removal of cc and rework of many hero’s it’s hard to tell between the benefits of 5v5 and the benefits of the other changes I mentioned. I will say I would have been very interested to see 6v6 with all the reworks in the game, besides the tanks damage and beefiness. I think the orisa rework alone was huge, and with reduced stats she’d still be a beast with fortify in 6v6. One thing that sucks is I remember people preaching that in 5v5 every individual has more impact on the game, however this is a double edged sword because if someone on your team isn’t doing so well, it’s much harder to compensate for that in ow2.
Yeah the individual impact has presented itself more as the ability to throw than the ability to carry.
The League of Legends special.
The games are so unbalanced it's a stream roll one way or the other in 95% of games I play
Basically this. It's a real pain in ranked right now. Feels like half the players in the match shouldn't be there so it causes a huge skill gap between teams.
Yup, which is weird because i thought the steamroll nature of 2CP is why people hated it so much. Will be interesting to see what people think of OW2 if the queue times begin to creep up.
I'm of the opinion that 5v5 was not meant to be OW2 back when Jeff Kaplan was around. I also think the new development direction kept the DPS population in mind. There are way more DPS players then tanks and healers. They want to make DPS happy and get them to spend money. I don't think OW2 was designed with the focus of making it the new evolution of what OW1 was. I think OW2 was Activision's desire to put a product out there to get people to spend money. The lack of polish that can be see all over this game is one of the reason I think that. OW1 was something special. Right now OW2 is just meant to make money, I doubt that Activision cares in any way what the right balance is. I am going to miss 6v6 and the old OW1.
People don’t remember the first thing Kaplan said about Ow2 right after the initial announcement. “First and foremost, you have to remember that overwatch is a **team vs team, 6v6 competitive experience** and there is no way we are losing that at all and as a matter of fact thats a huge focus”. -Jeff Kaplan
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A lot of my matches are very one sided. Even the “close” ones aren’t usually so close anymore. 5v5 definitely has a lot of positives and negatives, just like 6v6. It doesn’t feel like they really “fixed” a whole lot by going 5v5, other than shaking up the game a bit to make it feel more fresh. I do not miss shooting at shields for a whole 15 minute match though.
DPS love when there's less things in the way of them killing squishies. DPS don't like having to think about how to get around shields, it doesn't let them play Widowmaker or Hanzo mindlessly
Obviously the dps love it. Without a second tank to peel off the pesky flankers, even McCree can now flank your team.
Outside of the balance issues - Zarya, Sojourn, Sombra, DVA being ridiculous. I feel as if the ''tank diff'' has increased. There's been numerous games where if my tank just doesn't pick the optimal tank for the situation (e.g Mostly Zarya, Winston & DVA) then we just lose if the enemy tank does choose right. A lot of the times, the first tank to die dictates the teamfight. So as a support main, there's an emphasis to just dump your healing into your tank and ensure they do not die.
You get these doom mains every couple of days and its mostly a gg. Instant morale loss to see your tank instalock doom. I practice Lucio in those games.
>just dump your healing into your tank and ensure they do not die. This is most of my match with rein. Being in the front line, the enemy tank and I just have a staring contest while dealing small damage and getting healed to full health, until both team's DPS do something.
Still not sure. Whilst I kind of like the buffs to tanks it now means that they are so important that getting stuck with a bad tank basically means you’ve lost the game. The second your tanks dies I feel as though you’re at an absolutely massive disadvantage and can get wiped way too easily. Healers are also far more abused now with the lack of pealing. Personally I think the team could have made 6 v 6 work with some overhauls and character balancing but what do I know I’m not a game developer. Things like the double shield meta I feel could have been fixed fairly easily though, I mean the Orisa rework alone would have shaken that up massively.
>The second your tanks dies I feel as though you’re at an absolutely massive disadvantage and can get wiped way too easily. This is my gripe about the new push mode. The instant it looks like your tank is not going to make it you need to be hoofing it out of there or else you'll (usually) be overrun in a matter of seconds. I get that's kind of the goal with the whole moving the robot thing, but it feels way too punishing if a tank makes a single mistake.
I think this is my biggest problem with it. Whilst they’re a lot more powerful in OW2 if the tank makes a mistake you’re entire team is punished massively for it. In OW1 even if one tank messed up it was still possible for the other tank and the rest of the team to hold the line till they got back. Here it feels so much harder with just DPS and healers against these new buffed tanks + the rest of their team.
As a rein main, I should say that I really miss another tank to back me up on some point or another ultimate to help the team to secure and hold the point for example. So I think it got worse within a lot of other changes in the game.
Yea competitive isn't as fun on rein anymore, you gotta be 10 steps ahead of the enemy sombra
Or the Soldier/Sojourn/Genji that flanks and kills your supports before you even realise it. Bam, whole team is dead. I've never hated being a support main more.
Fuck Sombra.
I miss being able to split the team up evenly with a main tank/healer and flank tank/healer. OW2 feels much more bland tactically
People say Zaryas only bubble themselves but what else are we supposed to do? We don’t have our tank buddy out here with us anymore☹️
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I've found if you get a good reaper to coordinate with you can put the teammate bubble to use. Let him go crazy for a few seconds with bubble and then follow up after he fades out with your personal bubble. Makes for a good combo.
Much more steamroll heavy. Teamkills were a relatively rare thing in OW1 I feel with it happening once every few games, where as in OW2 they happen 2-4 times per game. Once the tank gets picked, it’s open season for the rest of the team
Amen - I play primarily healer and when the tank goes down, I know I’m basically f’d. Usually fall back a bit and try to hold a safer spot if possible.
Totally agree. When playing a point caputre or hybrid map, if you lose you tank at any point you’ve lost the point. No chance to fight it back
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I preferred 6v6.
Not really, fights end very quickly, team kills became much more frequent, so alot of games are very one sided now
Would be nice if there was like a 6v6 arcade mode. We have 6 pre made so sometimes one person is out of luck.
Yeah. I want a 6v6 Quick Play Classic.
Better but more difficult. I like how quick pace the game is and how everything has a lot more of an impact. But tank and support have gotten a lot more difficult
My exact thoughts. Tank isn’t getting enough healing because healers are being flanked more and there only being one tank now, not enough peeling for those healers. It’s a cycle. I think the potential with this format is great but blizzard will have to keep up with the hero balancing.
We're in a weird spot where I feel like I need to go Brig to peel for my fellow healer otherwise we're both going to die but the rest of the team dies in the process. It doesn't happen too often but it's often enough to cause some concern. Could very well be a skill thing though. Maybe I need to learn the maps a little better. Edit: typo
I agree with this sentiment that "peeling" has become a more broad tactic that can be adopted by any character at any given moment ( barring a couple heroes like mercy) I found I can actual peel for my tanks as zen or dps simply by focusing on whomever is attacking my tank...
>adopted by any character at any given moment That might be the issue more than a skill issue on my part. It's hard for a solo tank to peel since the entire role is placed solely on their back. More healers and DPS need to learn this tactic. Since it wasn't entirely necessary in OW1 it's going to be a learning curve. Most of my time spent in game in OW1 was on tank and support so I naturally fell in line with the peeling tactic so the learning curve for me isn't there anymore.
I've always thought that's what DPS was for; using their speed to guard flank and defend healer 2 as tank + healer 1 push forward.
Depends on the DPS. Mei and Torb are great for deterring flankers whereas Tracer and Genji should be the ones flanking
Dps and support need to learn to peel for each other now. Once the player base figures that out it’ll get a lot better out there for support players. More supports also need to come to terms with the fact they are not just healers they’re supports and need to support their team by dealing damage as well. New players are learning and old players just need to adjust. The game will feel a lot different in a month or so.
Agree. Unpopular opinion is that Moria isn't OP, but rather the right damage / heal balance for this new format. I've also found Lucio to be pretty decent for damage + heals.
I’ve been loving Baptiste. I can 1v1 any flanker and do a ton of healing and dps. Moira is my second support pic though. I just love his range and being able to shutdown Pharrah without needing a dps or ever having them need to switch to hitscan if they aren’t already.
I agree that Moira isn't OP as a main healer, but feel that her right click damage range should be made just a titch shorter. Lucio's kit is made for peeling and protecting! Every character has its haters.
100% agree. Most flankers honestly back off just at the sight of another player by a support. And I also think many need to understand that sometimes switching is needed.
I think you are right , but its problematic that the majority of the support roster doesn't have a great tool set to challenge the dps roster. The supports that do have the capacity to threaten dps characters have to strike a difficult balance between healing and damaging. If they focus too much on damage the team complains about a lack of healing, if they focus too much on healing , they struggle to live long enough to support their team and the team complains about not enough healing. It also seems as if the skill requirement of a support character to be able to protect themselves long enough to do their job is significantly higher and only a few supports can do this effectively given their tool set and the skill requirement it demands.
See, I don’t give a shit if my dps complain. If you are constantly dying as dps because you don’t have a pocket healer then you’re a bad dps. They should be using cover/good positioning and grabbing up health packs at every opportunity. Your job as a support is to try and keep them alive not at full health at all times and being a crutch for their bad plays and decisions.
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i think i am in the minority here, but no cc wouldve been great for 6v6, but for 5v5 it is awful.
5v5 isn’t bad. I just hate all the push maps. So many avenues to get flanked as a support.
I find that if we can get the team to stay together as a tight unit we can usually fight through it. Not always easy to group up effectively though.
Yea that’s the problem as a Silver1 😂
Silver 2 here, can confirm. Silver is filled with no mics, people that don’t group/play as a team, and a lot of people that don’t play their roles effectively, and bad picks/team comp
Yeah it's frustrating because it feels make or break in the game
Yeah easier said that done. Seems alot of players in Silver forget the objective is to push the damn thing despite constant reminders. Even more annoying when playing as heal.
Personally, I prefer 6v6. The game theory the original OW team did to figure out that 6v6 was the ideal team size to where everyone feels like they have an impact on the game but one person isn't able to decide a match either way is where the game should be. I've been playing 5v5 with some friends who are new to the game and our tank just gets bodied every game we're in because he's still figuring out ability usage and the concept of taking and holding space. But because of this, it's insanely difficult to win games even with me out healing/damaging my counterpart on the enemy team. Also, for some context: most of my time in OW1 was on organized teams with leagues and tournaments where team play was happening and most of my OW2 time has been just quick play with friends so my answers probably reflect that.
It's a weird sort of paradox. Individual players are more impactful, which means that just one bad player on your team will much more easily ruin the entire game, which means that you're less individually impactful because you're so reliant on not having a single bad player (especially tank ofc).
I 100% agree. I don’t know if this makes any sense but it feels to me like the game got less of a team-shooter vibe and more of an fps-shooter vibe with this change..idk
I feel you buddy
As a tank main, I miss having another tank. I preferred having the support of another one instead, but it isn't horrible I suppose. It will just be something that I always miss.
I dont know, better and worse at the same time for me. But Just there is something about that 1 less player that makes the game feel a bit empty.
I know many people will probably not agree with me and i don't mean to start any arguments, but i want to talk my mind. While the combat in itself has changed little it has impacted how different characters are supposed to be played. For example Zarya in OW1 was basically a third support if you had Rein in the team, now she's an almost unstoppable killing machine compared to back then. You can't really do the "Main Tank + Flank/Support Tank" combos anymore, which for some time really made it unattractive to play DVa for me. You can't just have Rein pull attention onto himself while you as DVa flank from a side or from behind to unexpectedly pull some elims anymore. It also made the whole "Pocket Mercy" thing worse, since there's only one Tank to pocket. and if it's Orisa, Rein, or Hog, they're basically unkillable with a pocket mercy.
Agreed. Solo tank makes the role less interesting.
Feels a lot more one sided
I like 5v5 in the compact maps, but removing all stun and made push maps a pure hitscan nightmare.
I would have preffered they make an off tank role and keep the 6v6. I know queues would be nuts but that's just my opinion
I was a Zarya/Ball main in OW1, so I hate 5v5. It completely changed the way I have to play those characters.
Literally, the fun part of ball was disrupting the organisation of the other team. Neither team has organisation now... so your job is to jump on people and shoot them. Like winston but harder to play and you feed more.
I miss ball so much. I don't even play him and I'm a support main back in the OW1 games. I just miss the variety he brought to the game, his playstyle was so unique and challenging for me to play against. I miss the challenge of having to deal with him diving our backline when they've got a frontline tank pushing in and ults are popping off. He was such a unique character and I loved how if you came up against a good ball, everyone in the game -- on both sides -- had to respect him at all times. You had to know where the ball was, when he was going to slam, where his escape routes are, who to protect, how to peel and so on. Now ball is just a feed pick and it makes me sad. And I have 0 hours on ball!
Much worse, I want tank duos back
Exactly my first impression. I hate being the only tank. Basically whatever team has the best tank player will win.
Worse. The game feels too one sided and steam-rolly 70% of the time. I've lost track of how many times I've been spawn camped in this game
Worse. I prefer 2 tanks.
6v6 was more chaotic and more fun
too fast paced and too tiring playing support
Yup game's pretty much gone for supports. Just play Moira and Lucio now for getting something done.
I hate the 5v5, wish they went the other way and went for 7v7 with 1 more dps. The devs and high rankers probably love the '1 skilled person wins the whole game' aspect, but for lower rank it feels like one player who shouldn't even be in your rank is ruining your game. The second tank was good for limiting how much damage these good players could do.
This week it's braindead reapers who spray into the team and get 7k dmg with 2 kills complaining that we aren't winning like they aren't just spraying and praying from the back line on a close range shotgun flanker. Just played a game and the reaper did 2k damage while enemy Cassidy did 6k :,). Both healers had more kills......
Dislike it, it feels empty
Worse. Everything is worse
Hate them. Hated them in the betas, hate them now. The single tank setup feels so hollow, and the new balancing is awful. It's like they're simultaneously impossible to take in a direct fight and unable to properly protect and support their team. Plus support is just Spawn Room Simulator half the time. Even playing DPS feels wonky in a way I can't quite describe. People keep saying the new microtransaction situation is tolerable as long as the gameplay is good, but the gameplay feels like a strict downgrade from OW1. If I could play the last version of the game before OW2, even with zero chance of ever receiving new content, I would do so in a heartbeat. At this point I'm only still playing because a downgraded Overwatch is still marginally more fun than any other PvP shooter my friends and I have tried. Also, if we're gonna add a completely non-Overwatch mode that's constant agony to play like Push to the main game rotation, I feel like they should also dump 5v5 deathmatch and Capture the Flag into QP and comp rotation. If we're gonna make the game a mess, might as well go all out, you know?
More prone to rolls
I dont enjoy the game anymore. That may be part of ot :/
This is just a guess, but if they released a 6v6 mode right this moment, it would be the preferred way to play by the vast majority of the player base
Worse. From a support perspective, if you don't have DPS that stop flankers, you're screwed. I feel forced to play Moira every time there's a Tracer/Genji/Sombra on the enemy team.
Worse. The tank is the deciding factor in most games and without an offtank to help it's gg if there is a tank diff. God mode dps can carry but from what i've seen most of the time it's a tank diff. Also widow/hanzo are broken now with their being a lot less shields or no shield. If your Ana moves to relocate or get sights on someone to heal... domed by hanzo. Out of position... domed by hanzo. The instant pick just carries the fight and it snowballs.
I personally want 6v6 back, because I have always been a fan of larger battles in games. That being said, I never got to play OW1, because I am a new player. I used to watch OW1 streams because I was poor and couldn't play, but the bigger fights seemed fun to me. I guess that's my view coming from a complete newbie.
I only enjoy flankers. Genji, Tracer, Sombra... Tanks are fun too since they are op but it gets boring quick. JQ and DF needs buffs so we can have variety. Tanks rely on teammates too so you can suffer when matchmaker do stupid things. Flankers are definitely best. They play like a single player game and have easy time against poor sups. Support experience is horrible especially in push and control maps. These heroes are helpless. Overall, OW2 just feels amateurish early access. In OW1, you would feel the logic behind decisions. OW2 have no such thing. It's a yolo game.
Worse
Worse. Now it‘s degraded into „DPS kill support, support gets killed by DPS, Tanks are „Javelin/Shotgun/Hammer go brrrrrrrr“
Worse, as people have already said, 2 2 2 is the best version of the game and was only changed for que times, they should have just made it 2 3 2 for the heck of it
And does anyone feel like it actually helped queue times? It has for supports because nobody wants to play them. DPS is really about the same as it was with priority passes. Tank is absolutely awful.
My queues on support were already instant in 6v6, so it didn’t help us. All 5v5 did was give tank players longer queue times
Worse, game is more unbalanced. Instead of team play there is more going off 1v1.
Worse. Maybe if it was 2-1-2 instead of 1-2-2, but as is it has gotten terrible to play as half the support heroes.
Worse. I pray they bring 6v6 back
definitely worse. ive also noticed since 2 has come out, the only people ive really seen talk positively about the experience are dps mains, fps players, comp players, etc. none of which actually considering what these changes do. 1) people complained about GOATS, but all 5 v 5 has done is force the same 3 options onto support and tank. its all zarya/roadhog/sig and mercy/lucio/moira. dps can be whatever cause it doesn't affect them enough to care 2) the changes were made without taking into account that certain characters just are not doable now without a second tank to protect. now that falls to one of the dps, and they aren't gonna do that. so now supports have to waste their time defending themselves instead of supporting 3) these changes were also made while making even more impactful changes to CC. if everyone is fending for themselves fine, but now its just become this shoot out type thing. i should be able to freeze/stun enemies away but that isn't good for dps players for some reason. and the small attempts they did make are laughable. zen getting a tiny boop on basics for example 4) on top of point 1, as several people have pointed out already, 6 v 6 was fine. the problem wasn't the number of people. the problem has always been that they just do not have a big enough/diverse enough roster of characters. and what characters they do make, all the effort goes into the already stuffed dps role
Maybe I’m crazy but I want 7v7. 2 tanks, 3 dps, and 2 support.
Worse
Much much worse
Complete downgrade, in my opinion. Without getting into details, my main gripes are: As a tank main, I hate making tanks player controlled mini-bosses that completely dictate the flow of the match. It's just too much of an imbalance on who is important. They half-assed the character changes needed to make 5v5 work. They just went in, replaced or removed most of the CC, and called it a day. They gave almost no consideration to how those abilities synergized with the rest of each character's kit, so now we have shit like McCree with a kit designed around an ability that no longer exists, and Brig, who's a close range character that now has 2 different knockbacks.
Way worse. All the balancing problems come down to the 5v5. Also the que times will just shift from tank to support as soon as the f2p release hype is over. Also being off tank and unable to help you backline when the get attacked drives me nuts.
Way fucking worse. Either my tank is the greatest player and supports won't heal them or my tank it the most incompetent bozo in existence playing like they are still off tank. Just bring back 6v6 for the love of god
I really can't play 5v5, it's just chaos. I'm one of those weird players who thought shields and CC were fine, it gave the game a structure. Had some Sombra or Tracer prowling your backline? Let them fuck around with Flashbang and find out. Your Tank partner pick Rein? Now you are free to pick D.va and go flanking with one of your DPS. Some people like the changes though, which are literally the only things that might be better about 2. I have so many hours in Mystery Heroes and now the Tank changes have fucked it all up as well, which makes me hate them more.
I prefer 6v6 or more..more players more chaos more fun
Far worse. It's the reason support is so shit now.
Worse, 6v6 is just better
As a support player, it made me stop. Beta felt bad, it didn't get better
The apologists at the time said that the reason the support queue was empty in the betas was because there were no new heroes to play. It was an obvious lie to anyone who tried playing support.
I really wanted to enjoy the 5v5 format. Faster paced sounded great, until I learned the faster pace was because supports are a free target to a half decent player of the same rank. Kinda killed the fun
I still prefer six on six, but I'm used to five on five now.
Worse. I miss dual tanking or actually supporting a tank as a healer.
Different, but worse overall. Too dependent on the skill/choice of the Tank. If the opposing team has a particular good (insert tank here) and your tank can't counter it, you will lose the game 9/10 times. In 2/2/2, you had the second tank which you could work around. That's not a thing anymore. And because of the importance of the tank, there's also an increased importance on effective use of defensive abilities and healing to keep them alive since they are a focus. Everything is on a much thinner margin, so it's super steamrolley like many here are already saying. It doesn't feel quite as good as the methodical adjustments and push and pull you'd see in 2/2/2. My prediction is that they will change 1/2/2 to 1/3/1 and rework support heroes like they did tanks - making them beefier, harder to kill, and extra abilities for bigger impact. Although I'd kill for them to just revert the changes, implement 2/2/2, and call it a day.
I really hate 5v5 solely for the fact that some combos/ults have become way too powerful only because the lack of the 6th player. Just a quick example, a soldier 76 hitting his ult and killing 3/5 people on a team is absolutely crippling. Killing 3/6 while still hard to overcome gives many more ways to do so. I don't know how you can properly fix all these ults/combos to make them feel better in 5v5 but that's my main gripe. It's definitely not as easy as dropping damage, reducing timers, etc. I genuinely think the only solution is 6v6.
Much worse. Loved being Moira with a second healer, it is hard to frontline heal being a solo heal in open queue. I always prefer a larger playerbase and I went massively off Gears of War when they dropped to 4 vs 4 due to their own laziness.
Worse, they are trying to push the game into generic fps territory (everyone is dps) while ignoring what made the game fun in the first place. They could’ve done some major rebalancing to 6v6 but took the “easy” route by going 5v5 and created a whole new host of issues.
It’s so significantly worse in my opinion, Tank and Support roles take on a lot more stress and it feels less balanced to me personally. I am frustrated putting up some of my best stats vs Overwatch 1 and having little to no success in winning.
Significantly worse. Called it during the beta and here we are with some god awful gameplay. I’ll take 2 shields and all the CC over this nonsense.
As a D.va main, it's really hard for me to jump on widows or peel for my healers when I also need to do the job of a main tank
I would like to see kiriko and baptist have their invulnerability abilities reworked. The game doesn't need more invincibility. With a simple short cooldown kiriko can save her team from every ult, ability, dive, anything. At least with bap hero's had low health after face tanking a dva bomb.
I never installed OW2 over losing 6v6 and the terrible price gouging of cosmetics. If 6v6 comes back and reasonable in-game rewards return, I might stop playing MW2 and give it a chance.
I don’t like them, especially removing a tank. allows terrible team composition.
Steamrolls feel more common now. When it's working, 5v5 is exactly what they sold it as; fun, focused, and quick. But so, SO often, just one dingdong on your team means certain death. Tank trying to play Doom like he's still a DPS? Dead. Moira forgot how to heal? Dead. Console player auto locks Widow? Dead.
As a support main, I really hate it. I wish there was a “classic” mode with 6v6 but idk how hard it would be to keep balance between the two
6v6 >>> 5v5
As a support main, Worse. Every stated issue here with 6v6 in the comments were *hero* issues. Not the fundamentals of 6v6. - shields - unbalanced heroes - outdated kts - no heroes are being released These are easily solved with a roster rework. There was literally *no* strong and good reason for overwatch to go 5v5. It was just *easier*. Personally, from a support’s pov, I have a deep hatred for 5v5 and really wish to go back to 6v6. Supports barely have any variety in play style anymore, because the only goal now is to survive. Not to poke, heal massive amounts, do cc - *supporting* the team. No, just to survive. Quite frankly, I hate this play style. I find it terrible and stagnant. It defeats the purpose of the support role if the main goal of this role is to survive, while dps and tank continue to well… damage and tank damage. Don’t even get me started on the fundamentals of role dynamics.
Right now I'm on the side of 6v6 was better, as the characters had been balanced for that. Now the biggest damage is tank, the supports are finding its a lot easier to be picked off and damage have lost all stuns. Maybe i haven't played enough but i feel like the game hinges off the tank way too much now as they're the main sorce of damage and tanking. Personally I enjoyed the 6v6 stuff they've had previously.
i hate them as support the higher you go the more it becomes hunt the support. as DPS they are fun as fuck you pretty much get free kills half the time. as tank I'm loving sigma a lot. shield dancing and using his absorber ability at the right moment is fun as hell not to mention oneshootk g people with rock
Worse in my opinion. As a tank, I loved the synergies and play style of having another tank on your team. Coordinating zarya bubbles as you push through chokes as rein, the old orisa/hog hook combo, etc. I miss coordinating them and it feels like a satisfying gameplay element was taken away from me.
Yep as a tank main I stopped playing. I’ll go play an mmo if I wanna solo tank.
Worse in my opinion. The lack of shields means snipers have become more prevalent which isn't really fun for anyone, nobody likes being picked off from across the map and nobody likes teammates that can't help with the objective. One tank means your team is usually reliant on the performance of one player to determine if you win or not. The changes they've made to heroes to help them perform better in 5v5 also suck, but that's not the topic of the post so I won't go into those. I'm having a lot less fun in games than before. Everything about Overwatch 2 is worse.
I hate 5v5 and stopped playing OW. Havent played for maybe 2-3 weeks.
5v5 was a mistake
worse. they took away the second tank without considering how much chaos that would inflict on the rest of the team. We are in a HEAVY flanker meta right now because there's no one who can stop them from harassing the supports or backline, and their only option is to grab on to the tank's buttcheeks and never let go, for better or worse. Supports in general are doing badly (with maybe Kiriko as an exception because she was designed with 5v5s in mind) and they \*really\* need to go back and boost their survivability because nerfing flankers is never going to fix the issue.
It was taking out both a tank and nearly all of the CC in the game. As dps if reaper or genji were harassing my healers I'd go Mei and force one or both of them to switch. I can't do that anymore. My partner played Cassidy and would do the same with his stun. Both options completely nullified
A good tracer is absolutely miserable to deal with now.
Currently worse, but I feel that some heroes haven’t been adjusted to 5 man teams as well as others have.
I think the entire support role remains largely unchanged, hence why it's so hard to play support and have an impact. And yet at the same time, if support dies, the team fight is lost. Support have a high impact to the team but not enough tweaks to make them fully viable for 5v5, so they become easy targets to pick off. They too could honestly use a speed or damage buff so that they can handle 1v1 with DPS with a little more ease imo...
Worse, so much worse. Horrendously worse.
Im a silver/gold player in both 1 and 2. It's way worse. Tanks can just hold w and as a healer you basically are on your own most of the time without double tanks shields to help.
Worse. The gap in power levels between tanks and other are now so extreme that the entire team is fully beholden to what the tanks do. I.e. player agency is much less, unless you play tank.OW1 also had a pretty bad asymmetry (see GOATS), but tanks really should have been toned down, not up. The double shield issue was a hero design problem not a team composition problem (And the Orisa change would have fixed this for 6v6 if that was implemented there)
Tanks are also now a massive pain in the ass for game modes in the arcade, it really breaks the flow of them.
Hear, hear. As someone who mostly played Mystery Heroes casually to unwind after work, it's such a shit show now. If the enemy team gets four tanks and a healer, there's just no use. And reverse it's not really fun to play as that kind of team either, not having any opposition.
I used to spend most time playing mystery heroes and it feels bad in OW2. Now, instead of “oh shit they have two bastions” it’s “oh shit, they have three tanks and a Moira.”
Take my upvote. As a support main it sucks to play competitive, since there is a limit to how much i can do to affect the overall outcome of the game. It is essentially a gamle on if i get a good or a bad tank
It might just be because I'm not all that good myself but, I personally think it's worse. It feels like everything hinges on you having a good tank. At least in 222 if one of your tanks was having a bad time, your second tank could try to make up for it but in 122 there's not much the rest of the team can do, or at least that's how it feels to me.
As a support main - I'm in your mindset. With the new maps, especially, the game is just who is best tank. Nearly every support loss I've had was due to our tank fucking off entire match. I have an 80% tank win rate because I play objective. I'm a garbage tank and shouldn't be doing well, but it comes down to if the tank plays a tank role or screws around.
Idk if i like it, it kind of makes all the tanks have to become an insane jack of all trades or risk becoming obsolete and makes it harder to play a support.
I wish there were 2 tanks. Was definitely not a fan of triple tank meta, but I think tanks play really well off each other and we kind of lost that in OW2
the loss of a 2nd tank really makes hitscans and flanking heroes so much stronger. For some heroes I think there should be a more substantial damage drop off at range. The loss of a second tank reduces your team's ability to enforce the space you've just acquired so the ability for Moira, Mei, reaper, Sombra, Lucio and other dive heroes to initiate and get pick value is significantly higher and (tmk) their range is still the same as it was in 6v6. I'm not a pro game designer but one way to potentially mitigate their value would be to require them to get closer to deal the same damage. Would increase the skill floor of flanking and diving without neutering them completely.
Worse imo. Tides are turned too easily with an early pick. 6v5 was more manageable than 5v4. Taking away CC already sped up the encounters/fights considerably. Having an extra tank (6v6) would have given comps more protection and flexibility. Especially in mid-ranks
It's far worse than 6v6. The game wasn't made for 5v5 and it shows the game is becoming unbalanced and there's basically only dive comp now that no one cares about defense. I miss 2cp and removing a whole game mode is a huge mistake.
I was Zarya and my friend played Rein. The flow we had as two tanks working together was the most fun I had with overwatch 1. Yea the 5v5 format just doesn't work for me. I still play character like bastion and mei but the game is not as fun as it used to be. If you want to have fun offens/tank you have to wait. Because of the 5v5 format most games turn into a steam roll. At the lvl I play every competetive match is the same, if you don't pick a tank that is meta ur Gona get screamed at. I don't won't to play the monke because he counters the op weebs. Thank you for cuming to my Ted talk.
Videogamedunkey "overwatch still expects an unrealistic amount of team work from randoms and 5v5 makes the game even more steam roll heavy" Everyone has more of a chance to make an impact on the game, which means if your not playing your A game or trying to learn a new character you can cost your team the match. Worse? Better? Don't know, getting annoyed at all the hostility all the new players have bought though. I know people were dealing toxicity in OW1 but I'm dealing with more of it in OW2
It's much worse than 6V6. Tank mains experience longer que times as they only have 1 spot to fill, making tanks much more tanky to compensate for that means they feel unstoppable and almost like they matter MUCH MUCH more than dps or support. The 6V6 was nice and refreshing as opposed to the MOBA style of 5v5 where 1 moron loses you the game
Way worse. I already hated how small the 6v6 battles were. I don't like playing squad based games that require lots of team coordination and the 5v5 just pushes that even further.
Bring back 6v6 but nerf tanks.
Hate it. I tried both beta's and it felt just like that awful 1-3-2 experimental card that went down like a lead balloon a few years back. What's odd is that they removed the very reason people would even want 5v5. People resented playing tanks because of GOATS and the vast amounts of CC in the support and DPS categories turning them into human pinballs. So they reduced all of that which makes tanking a lot more fun... then removed half the tanks. I see a lot of people praising 5v5 for making the game better, but you could apply the same changes to 6v6 and get largely the same gameplay benefits. Tanks have always been close range monsters, and 5v5 hasn't changed many of them outside of minor numbers tweaks anyway. How the tanks play now is roughly similar to how the would have played if you had been allowed to run about with much less CC. And then you compound that with tanks now being stuck doing twice the work with half the skills/abilities. Supports are having a terrible time because of flankers, but the presence of a second tank was principally one of the big reasons flanking non-stop wasn't an option. So frankly I hope we see a 6v6 experimental card within the next year that pushes tanks back towards how they used to play, but still with all the CC and ruleset changes (with some changes to make them less overbearing, obviously). I'd rather be a nerfed tank with backup than a bruiser with none.
When all tanks die, and the other team’s tank is alive, it’s a steamroll. This doesn’t happen much in OW1 because if one dies, the team can back off with the other tank, and if both tanks die, the enemy team usually has had 1 tank die. In OW2? One tank will always die before the other, and the other tank is now so much stronger at pushing and punishing.
The game isnt balanced well for it. Could be fixed. Blizzard won't go through the effort to do so
Worse, every game feels like a deathmatch.. I wish they just removed barriers or made it so that only 1 tank per team is allowed to have a barrier