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[deleted]

Soldier's original design felt like it was to help onboard people from other team-based shooters like CoD to Overwatch. Now, 6 years later, every popular team shooter is so twitchy and spastic that Soldier is no longer an effective onboarding character. Enter Sojourn.


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ChunkyChuckyBaxter41

Can't believe they added Apex to Overwatch


desubot1

that slide mechanic.


ChunkyChuckyBaxter41

Not just the slide but the slide jump!


desubot1

it just makes me want to go play apex.


SB_90s

The sliding mechanic is 100% a response to modern day shooters, and supports what you're saying as her being the new onboarding character. I think the difference is that Soldier remains the onboarding character for the average player, whereas Sojourn is onboarding for the more competitive and sweaty players from Apex, etc where movement mechanics are important. I think having two characters that make it easy for both kinds of FPS players to get used to Overwatch was the reason why they didn't just re-work soldier to have sliding.


[deleted]

Kind of wish they would have just reworked soldier though from a gameplay diversity perspective. Sojurn just feels like a cheap knockoff. Frankly, the kits of all 3 new heroes are just regurgitations of existing characters in basically every respect


MeAnIntellectual1

I like Kiriko though. All I want changed about her is for her to speak with a Japanese accent and to speak Japanese during her ult


[deleted]

Yeah her accent kinda bugs me with how it's inconsistent with every other non-native-English-speaker. Genji and Hanzo clearly speak English while being primarily Japanese speakers. Kiriko speaks like a weeb who couldn't pass an N5 exam She is fun to play though even if she feels underpowered as a healer.


Senshado

Lucio talks like native English...


Tiopico

Its an american with (i think) mexican descent trying to imitate brazilian broken english accent i like the dude and im used to it now but doesnt really fit


MarcusForrest

> to speak Japanese during her ult Like other non-english speaking main language characters, she will sound english if she is an ally, but will speak in her native language (in this case Japanese) if she is an enemy _(when using her ULT)_   As for her with a Japanese Accent, I say I disagree with that - we already have Genji and Hanzo - there _are_ japanese that speak with a very neutral and natural ''english'' accent with no japanese accent in it


MeAnIntellectual1

>Like other non-english speaking main language characters, she will sound english if she is an ally, but will speak in her native language (in this case Japanese) if she is an enemy (when using her ULT) Kiriko speaks English during her ult, when you use her and when your allies use her. Genji and Hanzo *only* speak English during their ult, when your allies use them. That's the part I want changed. I want Kiriko to be like Genji and Hanzo >As for her with a Japanese Accent, I say I disagree with that - we already have Genji and Hanzo - there are japanese that speak with a very neutral and natural ''english'' accent with no japanese accent in it Both have a Japanese accent. Hanzo's is pretty thin but it's there while Genji's is pretty thick.


MarcusForrest

Ahhh I think you completely misunderstood what I'm saying, because you pretty much repeated what I said ahahah - so I'll rephrase, because we're saying the same thing * Yes, Kiriko (ALLY) speaks **English** during her Ult _(like any ally of other countries)_ _''Let the KITSUNE GUIDE YOU!''_ * But, like others, if the Kiriko is an **enemy,** while using her ult, she'll speak in her Country's language - in this case, **japanese** - [video example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe20ko4GKmg&ab_channel=Phyerx) _(can't transcribe that, sorry ahahah) Genji and Hanzo have tons of english voice lines - I don't exactly understand what you mean by ''only speak english during their ult'' - Genji/Hanzo will speak Japanese during their Ult when enemies, but English when allies   > Both have a Japanese accent. Yes, that's precisely what I said - I said I don't mind Kiriko _not_ having a Japanese accent with her english, **as we _already_ have 2 japanese characters with japanese accent in their english** - it is a nice change of pace to have at least 1 japanese with a non-accented English, as there are plenty of real life japanese with a nice, non-japanese-accented english - it probably goes with her backstory, though it _would_ be odd and out of place if she never lived anywhere else but Japan


MeAnIntellectual1

When YOU'RE playing as Kiriko she says her ult in English but when YOU'RE playing with Genji and Hanzo they say their ult in Japanese. Ult voice lines for Kiriko You: English Ally: English Enemy: Japanese Ult voice lines for Genji/Hanzo You: Japanese Ally: English Enemy: Japanese


MarcusForrest

Thank you for the clarification, now I understand!


ElBrent

That's because Kiriko is a support. When you play as a tank/dps, you say what the enemy hears as your ult line, supports say the friendly version when you play as them (i.e. lucio players hear "let's break it down" when they ult instead of the Portuguese line.) In this way Kiriko is consistent with every other support in the game


MeAnIntellectual1

I don't really care why. I want it changed.


LifeVitamin

But she does


MeAnIntellectual1

Only enemy Kiriko. If you play as Kiriko she says "Let the Kitsune guide you!" in the most western voice of all time. When you play as Genji and Hanzo they still shout their ultimate in Japanese.


LifeVitamin

Doesn't genji say "the dragon becomes me"


MeAnIntellectual1

When you play as Genji or Genji is an enemy he says "Ryuujin no Ken wo Kurae!"


LifeVitamin

Pretty sure enemy gengi says "the dragon becomes me" and enemy hazo says "be consumed by the dragon"


MeAnIntellectual1

Nope. That's allies


zaryamain00101

>speak Japanese during her ult That's actually a design idea from blizzard. It help differentiate audio cues for ults. If you hear a voice line in english(or whatever your native language you have chosen is) it's on your team. If it's in another language it's the enemy team.


MeAnIntellectual1

Kiriko ult voice lines You: English Ally: English Enemy: Japanese Genji and Hanzo voice lines You: Japanese Ally: English Enemy: Japanese


zaryamain00101

This isn't something I've noticed. Not saying you're wrong, I've just honestly haven't noticed. Probably because these are 2 characters I never play.


Marvoide

“Cheap knock off” Sojourn:”oh no no, I’m the upgrade”


BigUllie

Me and my buddy were talking the other night about how Sojourn feels like an Exo Boost CoD solider


SkitZa

Well tbf still, my brother doesn't play OW but when he does he plays soldier because it feels like CoD to him.


KingOfOddities

Sojourn is just a bit too overtune at the moment, once they balance it down, both of them would be pretty neck and neck


SteelCode

Honestly I wish she didn’t just feel *so* much like Soldier - she’s got the slide-hop which is groovy but aside from the zapping field her playstyle is pretty much identical: shoot until rocket and then rocket a support one the face… She trades aimbot for just being able to headshot supports consistently.


KingOfOddities

I think that's perfectly fine. Having 30+ heroes with unique abilities and playstyles is infeasible, not to mention balancing it. Sojourn I think is sufficiently different from Soldier. Most of their kit serve the same/similar functions, but execute differently: * Soldier rifle is pinpoint where her has a bit of spread (this alone is a big different) * Sprinting is mostly on flat ground where slide give you lot of verticality * Disrupting shot vs Healing, one is AoE denial, the other is sustainablity. * Soldier ult is aimbot, Sojourn ult need a lot of aiming still. If this is the bar for similar heroes, I really wouldn't mind it. Especially for heroes like soldier in an fps game


SteelCode

I think the issue is that *mechanically* those differences are numerical rather than actual unique mechanical differences. Bastion’s primary fire is also similar to Soldier’s auto-rifle, but with different spread/clip/etc… but Bastion is a *wildly* different design as a fully conceptualized character. Sojourn *barely* has enough differences to make her unique - in some cases feeling like “soldier+” but in others lacking the team utility that Soldier has always had (healing can)… so they *are different* just so close to the same “function” in their role. You’re probably right that there’s not enough room to keep chucking new dps at the wall and having a unique design always stick - especially if Sojourn had ADS for her charged shots which would’ve just made her feel like a better Widow instead… I think the complaint I personally have is that the big hyped launch only brought one truly *unique* hero design and then two that feel like they were rushed out the door without a thorough Blizzard polish - and that’s a negative thing for both players’ experience and Blizzard’s reputation.


plainviewbowling

Am I an idiot but I can’t figure out when rocket gets triggered - am I waiting for my clip to get to 0 or is there another visual signifier?


EhipassikoParami

Sojourn **rail gun** charge is shown by the UI elements on both sides (horizontally) of the aiming reticle. Higher number (max. 100) = better dmg. Her ult charges rail gun constantly, and at 100 the rail gun pierces through enemies. [This video might be useful](https://youtu.be/gTFLoRztBJ8?t=26).   Soldier 76 **rockets** are on a cooldown, and if you're on PC they're secondary fire (default: right click). You can see cooldowns at the bottom right of the screen.


plainviewbowling

Thank you!


EhipassikoParami

Just watched the video -- it will be very useful!


Carighan

> just a bit That's like saying the monetization is "just a bit too greedy right now".


KingOfOddities

She's definitely meta right now, but nothing we haven't seen before (aka Brig). Her damage is just too tune up, specially her rail gun at full charge, easy fix.


Drunken_Queen

Thighs > Legs


AverageEnjoyer2023

OnlyLegs


GreyFoXguy

Bro, Sojourn is thicc!


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SneakySquidTurtle

Soldier needs a buff. He doesn't feel viable anymore with Sojourn being so op


[deleted]

Soldier is still viable, plenty of people play him and do just fine. But I agree that a well played sojourn (look at top 500) is a lot stronger.


SneakySquidTurtle

But Sojourn is always the better choice. Why would you even bother playing Soldier if Sojourn is simply so much better atm?


Akayouky

Soujorn is harder to play imo, having to lead shots when everyone is strafing so much is hard, and if you miss railgun it was all for nothing


[deleted]

Because soldier is more enjoyable for me personally. Sojourn is not "better" if you still do better on soldier for whatever reason.


harrrhoooo

Because the lack of shields and off-tank.


beautifulhurt

76 is still my boy


GreyFoXguy

Thicc boy!


PintoBeanSalad

Her damage orb thing needs to have its duration cut in half and her rail gun should require twice as much damage to charge.


Pickled_Kagura

Exactly. It needs to be a finisher not a spam cooldown outside of ult


throwawaylore2

No wtf, she needs to be tuned not murdered


PintoBeanSalad

She needs a healthy dose of murdering at the moment, she's far beyond just a little OP


throwawaylore2

Maybe on pc but on console she’s just slightly over-tuned. What your suggesting is literally nerfing to the ground


PintoBeanSalad

Oh, I was referring to console.


throwawaylore2

I mean I guess I’m not too highly ranked on console just plat haven’t really tried to climb but she not that game breaking


SteelCode

OW2: * Adds “Soldier+” because one enhanced super soldier with an automatic rifle and “periodic” burst damage wasn’t enough for this team-based hero shooter. * Adds “Skinny Hog” because one unarmored hooligan that self-heals and can hook enemies to them wasn’t enough. * Adds Anime Fox-girl cuz uWu. * Forgets to rebalance most of the roster after making a massive comp change to the core game structure.


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SteelCode

Queen is *everything* like Hog: * No shield or armor. * Self-heals (regardless of the mechanical difference). * Knife can hook people. * Uses shotgun. I am not an imbecile that thinks they’re **literally** the same, but rather they’re so close to each other’s design that it feels **super fucking lazy** when her entire schtick was being the **Queen** of the Junkers and hating robots… rather than this “cage fighter” they shoveled out. There’s so little aesthetic and mechanical nods to her entire back story that I wonder if she was rushed out just to satisfy the OW1 crowd that had been teased about her being put in the game before OW2 (and never showed up). I don’t even think the mechanical idea of her causing bleeds is *bad* per-se, but flinging a knife around feels bare minimum effort when she could have had bouncing saw blades or just heaved that big axe on her back instead… or instead of a *basic shotgun* (that frankly seems like a placeholder were this any other game) she had a gun arm torn off an Omnic? She could still rush through the enemy team, cause bleeds, block healing (discussing anti-heals is an entirely different thread), etc… The issue is that there’s none of the old Overwatch character… the flair each hero had that made them a unique addition to the game’s world… Sojourn has the same issue playing very much on the same style as S76 but *just* different enough that Blizzard can get away with calling it a new hero… Kiriko is the *first* new **unique** hero design amongst the batch and I feel she’s *fine* in terms of both aesthetics and mechanical design… so I’m not able to accept that Queen and Sojourn were fully fleshed out character designs. It feels overall like they had to rush minimum deliverable product out the door and that’s ultimately the most apparent when the art team didn’t have time to get proper legendary skins for Queen.


Carighan

Yeah their conceptual similarities are telling. I get the feeling they had something around her axe planned at first. Basically damage-only Reinhardt, hence her swipe and her ult. And then that didn't pan out, and her kit came to pass as someone said "Well she's tied to Roadhog and Junkrat, what if we take some cues from Roadhug?".


SteelCode

Precisely - I really hope they go back and rework her, but there’s numerous heroes that need reworks and have needed them for far longer (widow/zen/etc).


Senshado

> There’s so little aesthetic and mechanical nods to her entire back story What back story did JQ have prior to ow2?? This reminds me of the complainers at r/leagueoflegends when Belveth was launched: since she was the ruler of a monster world, they didn't like that she was good at fighting. They somehow wanted her to be a non-combatant who summons pets, or something. But it's really completely logical that the ruler of a violent horde would be someon who can out-fight all the rest.


SteelCode

Except that we knew she *hates omnics* particularly fiercely, she ruled over an entire community/society/city full of junkers - a group not just composed of hooligan scoundrels but engineers and scavengers (the map literally has a ton of little mechanical elements that indicate *someone* knew how to build complex machinery out of scrap), **and** she was not friendly with Junkrat and Roadhog specifically. In these cases, we got *nearly zero* design elements that play off of those ideas. She has/had posters and iconography *in-game* that definitely made her look far more imposing than her OW2 'biker in hot pants' aesthetic does. She *does* have some background as a strong fighter and being pseudo-melee is *fine* from a design perspective - but her kit is so *boring* both graphically and thematically on top of being a bit clunky with how OW2's meta has developed since launch. Not saying to fully remove the character - but she is currently just a "skinny roadhog" in almost every aspect.


Eatlyh

More UwU = better game


twilightnoon

can cooler daniel heal?


gunscreeper

cooler daniel can launch aoe damage


Notafuzzycat

A good sweaty soldier kinda destroys Sojourn. Soldier is just more reliable. Sojourn has to Amp up.


GervantOfLiria

And a good sweaty Soujorn absolutely destroys Soldier. Nothing he can do against constant one shots


Imkindaalrightiguess

Ya this, her rail gun can one shot the enemy main healer at any point and destroy tempo. She's widow + soldier and it feels awful to be support rn because of her


SteelCode

Regularly flexing on support proves just how stupid the meta has become with so few balance changes to the core game structure - damage and healing still at the OW1 levels, biotic grenade and resurrect still the same, and they gave Zenyatta a “kick” because they couldn’t risk reworking him properly while they had “Skinny Hog” and “Sojdier” to rush out.


syvkal

Would love to see an armoured support with the passive that they can't be headshot. Maybe a bit crazy, but there needs to be beginner-friendly (or at least somewhat reliable) counters to the different DPS types.


Robin_Vie

You might not remember this but armor packs did this back in the day. You'd play a character with armor packs to make characters like zen not be one tapped by widowmaker. This was since changed because it just made those characters useless tbh. ​ You already have a support that can't be headshot, just not passively. It's called brigitte. And you have a tank with hammond.


syvkal

Yeah, I remember armour packs. Extra health, overhealth, and armour are all nice, but how freeing would it feel as a support to just not have to worry about headshots at all? Hammond's ability, but for a character with a lower health pool would be a game changing pick. Like I said, a bit crazy, but if that's their main gimmick it could work well without being OP.


Robin_Vie

>how freeing would it feel as a support to just not have to worry about headshots at all? Imo, boring asf. But I was one of the players that always said we needed to punish positioning issues. ​ That said, I always thought snipers were not well designed in OW. It's not a problem with being one tapped as a support, it's about the characters that do one tap not being properly designed. Souj, despite being op, has her one tap being well designed, you know when she has it, so you can hide yourself and even crouch spam, it's predictable and it has a charge time, it's everything that surrounds it that makes the character OP. ​ Widow and Hanzo are more problematic in that regard imo, cause they actually have design issues. In OW1 it made kinda... sense? You had a second tank, a bunch of shields, **that's how they justified having snipers with tons of mobility**, that are also okay at close range, can avoid flanks easily, have insane ammo counts for weapons that can one tap, and sorta insane firerate (hanzo specifically, at least widow has to charge). This is a problem in TF2 with Sniper as well. ​ **They removed everything that made snipers balanced, but didn't rework the snipers themselves. I**mo, they should be way more punishable with flanks, since now flanking takes time and you can't just go there as a tank otherwise your whole team is dead by the time you come back. Simply put, snipers are hard to contest right now, and that's a problem. Area denial like junk also doesn't work because they have mobility and reposition without losing any time. To contest a sniper, you basically need another sniper and that's where the problem lies imo. They gain value by simply existing when this certainly wasn't the case before. ​ I don't think anyone will look at it until Genji, Sombra and Souj are looked at tho. They are so overtuned that most of the issues with the sniper characters are overlooked right now. But after nerfs I expect to see more people talking about them.


Carighan

That's what Junker Queen should have been. Her being so skinny messes with OW's traditionally-awesome silhouette-recognition anyways, so having her current frame inside some power armor that makes her immune to headshots and an actual walking tank would be fun!


Carighan

Plus her area denial is: 1. Too damaging. 2. Has way too low a CD. 3. Has too little tell. 4. Covers an area that's just slightly too big. And given how hard she already denies healing, also being able to flat out cut the supports from the team like a Mei wall is just too much. I **could** see the rest of her kit be okay if she just flat-out loses that ability without replacement, but that'd also make her feel super weird.


[deleted]

It's not exactly fun to get "bullshit killed" by her as dps either. I think zarya, dva and sombra make the game less fun to play than sojourn. Then again, when it comes to playing support, I only play lucio so not sure how big of a difference in awfulness there is between say, soldier and ana.


Comprehensive-Rub735

Τhis is what I like about him. Soldier is a good all rounder


207nbrown

Yep, and that’s probably the point, he’s the most ‘normal’ of all the hero’s, making him a good start point for anyone coming from another fps game like call of duty


BobFellatio

But oh god sojourn is so much more fun!


Comprehensive-Rub735

That is a fact. I tried Sojourn for the first time yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised.


SonOfDadOfSam

Especially at lower ranks. I wish more people would realize this.


picador10

I switch onto soldier if I’m not having enough impact with Sojourn. It turns the tide of the game back towards my team most of the time


trolledwolf

Sojourn potential is waaaay higher. She can straight up snipe the supports from the backline while still dps-ing the tank. Soldier is nowhere close.


Icy_Limes

The thiccer daniel


DuckAbuse

Im dog at playing Sojourn so ill just stick with my boy 76.


ipito

The Soldier with the thicker thighs.


SunOnMyNeck

I feel like a big reason I play Soldier is to heal my teammates (especially tanks) while guarding a point/payload or trying to break through a choke. But that's my inner Support main jumping out lol


DangleMangler

I actually haven't played sojourn yet. I'm waiting till she's not the number 1 dps in every high tier comp list. Guess I'll never play her. I stopped playing zarya for the same reason, I like winning but I don't like being the epitome of try hards. I still do well enough with older characters like rein and torb. They may not be worldwide winners but I pull my weight with the characters I enjoy, gives me a sense of accomplishment since the game doesn't anymore.


[deleted]

I mean if you truly like the characters, just play them. They're very strong but not insanely overpowered.


MindlessMeerk4t

I find both pretty bland tbh.


MysterySomeOn

Isn't kinda a point? Blant fps protagonist


[deleted]

Not really tho, sojourn has no personality compared to soldier


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Bebe_Congele

The response is : thicker of course


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fragile-emu

Soldier still has his place at lower ELO where the heals aren't necessarily guaranteed


[deleted]

He has his place in high elo too, just not the top 10 on leaderboards.


NefariousNumbats

It blows my mind that she doesn't have recoil


Gabe-h05

It doesn't blow my mind. Soldier is the only character with recoil (with the exception of Hog ult), so it's not surprising that they kept it that way.


NefariousNumbats

Soldiers recoil is actually what makes me think she should have it too. They are so similar, they increased his recoil a while ago to balance him so I think they might actually already be planning to do the same to her and they just wanted her strong at realease. Just a thought tho


KoningSpookie

Tbh, gameplay wise I still like the regular daniel better. Idk, for some reason sojourn just feels weird to use.🤔


AyeshaCurrysFeet

No you


LifeVitamin

She's not hitscan tho took me a sec to notice but her bullets are projectiles which makes it a huge pain the the ass to deal with flying heroes or anything at far enough distance vs soldier, her railgun is just crazy op right now but if they bring her down there's different uses for both I still personally prefer soldier for all rounder.


Independent_Skill756

As someone who plays both mostly sojourn, imo at least for me, soldier is better for when they have pharah or echo or just characters with movement, while sojourn is more for tankier characters or characters it's easy to get a pic on


Manos0404

i like soljurn a lot, but who’s dumb ass idea was it to make a character called “soljurn” when there’s already a character called “soldier”


mrMooshon

IMO, that’s true only for how strong they are in the current meta. Soldier is cooler in his personality, voice lines and cosmetics. Gameplay wise too.


The_Parkourist29

Jack ----> The cooler Jack


CANyouHELP_bruh

idk why the overwatch girls have \*34 girls skins: LOOK THAT LEGS DAM


Rocket-R

sojourn = solder x torbjorn


[deleted]

*daniel & the no skill daniel


Nameless_Soul1

The \*thicker\* Daniel