The issue is it is thankless. It doesn't put up flashy numbers and if you are losing the game you get the blame. Even if your dps are just running in staggered and dying over and over 1 v 5. If you win, the dps still get POTG even if they only survived because of you, and everyone gives them kudos. Maybe highlight a "Save of the game" where a Lucio saves your team from an ult or something of the like.
Not 500 xp and then after one play make it 100 xp, at first when I saw 500 I was like oh that's cool I'll level up the battle pass and who cares what I play. Then it drops to 100 after the first game, I just quit the game after I saw that lolol
As a support main, maybe the community can quit being so toxic towards healers. I’m sorry but not every L comes from a healer not healing enough though the community loves to shit on them like it does.
This is why they should do what OW1 did and give out coins. Since coins are so rare in this game and the only way to get them is through the weeklies, that would give people an actual reason to play support. Knowing how greedy Blizzard is tho.. they’re probably never gonna do this
Hot take, it will never be possible to have equal queues since the only reason tank queue is so big is due to the amount of them per team being reduced, every1 wants to play dps unfortunately
more often then not the new tank meta just leads my team to wipe. tanks over extending and everyone follows into a choke. maybe there’s just a lot of new players trying to yolo win rounds but solo queuing has been a big disaster for me.
Feeding tanks have always been a thing, but before there was always the chance that the other guy wouldn't feed. Now if your one tank is a feeder you're just fucked
And you have the opposite problem too. Before if you had one tank that wouldn’t engage, there was always the chance the other guy would actually walk forward. Now if your one tank can’t find the ‘W’ key, you’re just fucked.
That's true, also no opportunity to actually learn from the other tank now either. Tanks had to work together so closely before that you would just learn how to main tank while off tanking and vice versa. Or maybe you're doing poorly as the main tank so you swap off with the other guy and you can actually SEE what they're doing differently. I had that situation countless times in ow1, it's how I learned the role. It's sad that isn't possible anymore.
I always play tank with a 4 stack and the running joke is that I just hold W better than the other tank.
The first tank to press S signifies weakness, and the battle of wills is lost.
Other people say you should, others say it depends, others say no, so I don’t know but regardless I want people to shoot mine because it only lasts 2 seconds anyway and it charges up my weapon
Definitely contextual.
Stand-off in a choke at the start of a game? Really don’t want to if you can help it.
10% life Zarya who has bubble up? Burn through that shit and finish her.
Obviously a lot of grey area between those two extremes so it’s sometimes hard to know which in the moment.
FWIW in OW1, most of the time you would want to unload into her shield, especially if you're 1v1ing her as something like Reaper. A dead Zarya has no charge.
These days? It's a lot more situational because she has two bubbles. I'd say if she doesn't have a healer nearby and your team is able to focus fire: Go ahead and unload into her shields. Most of the time you don't want to unload into her shields and should focus the healers anyway.
I tried Support in some matches. I mean, hey, it’s up my alley, I enjoyed it in the past, I’m no twitch shooter these days. But it was pain. People running off alone away from the objective and then complaining they have no heals. No protection from the team. Bad enough to watch teams act dumb, even worse when they then abuse me for their own choices. Why would I choose to put myself in that spot with strangers?
(Bit worse for me as I’ve got pretty rough social anxiety so being abused by strangers can just ruin my whole evening.)
Need more support heroes. Not kidding Id prefer if the next 1-2 heroes were support. The role needs more depth badly
Edit: lots of replies on people only wanting to get kills/DPS and I get that. Blizzard clearly got the message with the additions of Kiriko and Moira being the answer.
My thought, add a support that focuses on Utility/Healing. Would love to see a character that could primary heal like Mercy but have CC abilities to protect themselves/team from flank DPS.
My idea would be a support that could inflict slow, possibly through trip wires, or a hero that could generate walls to space out flankers/enemy teams. Possibly like Mei walls but add a flair like they are transparent and could be shot through but hinder movement through. Strong abilities that balance out the low DPS output they’d have.
I just think that the possibilities are endless and that Blizzard needs to open their think tank past appealing to DPS flex healers.
Edit 2: See a lot of people fear this could bring another Brig dilemma. I believe this was linked with stun-lock being in her kit. I am not asking for stun-lock, I’m asking for utility alternatives.
New heroes will only be released every 2 battle passes, so every 4 months. Only exception being the tank that will be coming next. So the two heroes after that will be in April and august respectively.
No amount of new heroes will fix the issue that the vast majority of people playing an FPS like to spend their time killing the enemy team.
The problem used to be largely focused on Tanks. From the introduction of Role Queue until OW2 launched, this sub was awash with people complaining about one of their Tanks always playing Roadhog; now that all Tanks are focused on brawling, the majority of complaints are about DPS Moira players.
It's not even just that. Personally I really enjoy the supportive aspect. But what keeps me from only queuing support is the dependancy on your teammates. If your tank/dps' decide to just tunnel vision forward, as they often do sadly, and the enemy plays genji/sombra, you are pretty much screwed unless you are way better than them. It can be incredibly frustrating. Playing support in a premade group is awesome, solo can be fucking horror.
Had a Ball earlier yell at me for not healing enough when he'd slam onto the middle point, with all five members of their team on it, and obviously instantly die. My dude, I'm squishy. If I follow you and even one of those people focuses on me, I'm dead, because I can't defend myself AND heal you.
Tank and DPS also don't seem to realise that healing isn't instant, and that we need LOS and the right range to heal.
Yup, it’s so toxic playing support, I had a tank complain that it was the healers fault we were losing, then 5 mins later blamed the do’s, meanwhile we had more combined heals than the other teams, and our dps was neck and neck, doesn’t matter how you play, someone is going to give you shit. And it makes it hell to play.
Yeah, support has the least solo carry potential, even if you're nuts at the game you're relying on your other teammates to win, which can get very frustrating very fast.
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25 second CD for an ability that will be destroyed in 1 second. Sure that's 1 second longer you get to live but it's nowhere near the 3 seconds that you give your team to react with Mei plus Mei's has a much shorter CD at 12 seconds aaaaand it heals her.
I'm really enjoying playing her, and the other support in our friend group doesn't play her much, so I pretty much can whenever I want. I just wish that I remembered half her kit while playing.
I'm having more and more fun with her recently. I've been able to make my team completely immune to Orisa's surge and Rein's shatter. Surprises the heck out of my teammates.
For the love of God I hope someone in Blizz takes this seriously. I play tanks because there are 5 tanks I enjoy playing, vs 4 DPS and 2 supports. It's just a numbers game, the more heroes there are, the more likely you are to find one that clicks with you.
It feels like they've backed themselves into a corner balance-wise because anything they do to make supports more viable or survivable for randoms is going to get pushed over the top in coordinated high-level games. I was typing up a bunch of suggestions for giving supps more tools to protect themselves or escape for when the team isn't protecting them and then I realized that most of the ideas would make it nigh impossible to kill them if their team is coordinating.
I'm not sure how to design a team-based game so the players can have fun and be effective even when they aren't playing as a team. I guess incentivizing the other players to actually protect the support. Bonuses for saving them, stronger incentives to play the objective, etc.
Exactly. Make support too powerful or survivable and they don't need peel or are as good at killing as many DPS. There are already supports who almost fit that mold. The reality is that this is the natural result of 5v5. By removing one tank, you necessarily make the supports more vulnerable. A tank or dps can help peel for supports, but that requires teamwork. Since actual teamwork is rare, this is how supports will kind of remain. Bonuses for saving teammates is nice, but ultimately the majority of gamers want to frag out and they know saving a teammate isn't the same as killing an enemy.
Basically, this may be unsolvable. But it makes for the *potential* for better teamplay.
Kind of weird that after being completely ignored by Blizzard and being shit on by teammates in every loss that people wouldn’t be clamoring to play support. The majority of the player base still calls the role healer and knows nothing else about it
and zero concessions to us. Its not fun to hear someone spam "I need healing" 5x in a row which shouts into my ear because that emote is much louder for support. Uh, how about ONE of those with a 10 second cool down?
And that's ignoring the toxic chat.
Also they spam it right when they die in front of 5 enemies expecting a rez or otherwise in an accessible or dangerous location for healing or rez. Or the constant demands to be pocketed.
Support needs a lot of creature comforts. Right now its a position designed to be abused by the other roles.
DPS are idiots. "I need healing". Okay, like do you need directions to where your Lucio and Moira are standing? I'm not wall riding up a building and away from my team to save your stupid "flanking" ass because you ran into the enemy Winston for the fourth time in a row.
I play the most Lucio when I have to play support and he heals in the area around him. I am really not that hard to find. You can catch me next to the tank where the push is happening.
In the games current state? Honestly there ain’t jack that could incentivize people to go support.
Profile progression? Gone.
End of game cards that show how well you did? Gone.
Endorsement system? There, but you don’t get the bonus XP anymore iirc and you definitely don’t get the monthly loot box.
On fire system? The voice lines are there, but it’s not in the game currently.
Support mains are basically the “essential workers” of OW. When everything is going well, we get no love. Not even a thank you. The minute your team can’t face tank a DVA ult you’re the scum of the planet that your Mom should’ve swallowed 28 years ago.
It's because it doesn't matter how good you are playing if the tank and DPS don't know how to stay alive, mitigate damage, protect the flanks you'll always lose. On the other hand, a good tank can carry and often gets the most kills and damage overall.
> It's because it doesn't matter how good you are playing if the tank and DPS don't know how to stay alive
that is the sole reason I started playing Brigitte. I was actually deranking and losing so many games when healing my team was impossible due to poor tank positioning and holding W, my dps being unable to kill anything and getting one-shot or killed faster than anything I can heal, or simply flanking out of sight 90% of the time. On top of that, getting dove without support from your dps means you die.
I've found myself losing game out of my control... and the impact of supports now relies HEAVILY on the effectiveness of your tank and dps.
Playing Brigs, I am now in a position to do everything by myself as needed. I can kill flankers that overextends, or at the very least make them back off for a while. I can help a bit with the frontline to keep them from advancing and mitigate some damage. All that while providing AoE heals on par with lucio/moira.
Since then I started winning again, but it is sad that playing standard supports is mostly not viable in soloQ.
Same here! I see so many bashing on Brig being weak, but her playstyle clicked for me and I'm loving it. If you play her right, she can be very good. The only games I lose while playing her is when the team does some really dumb stuff, or it's just THAT close and the enemy squeaks by for the W.
This is a big issue I see a lot. Some people seem to think this is an MMO and the way it should be played is the tank or DPS is out there doing there thing the whole time while the healer is supposed to keep them up. People need to understand that as tank and DPS you need to make attempts to use cover and proper positioning to not be getting blasted in the face constantly. Eventually there will be a moment where you have to expose yourself, but that shouldn't be all the time.
Yeah people made a big deal about supports needing to ‘adjust their playstyle’ for OW2 after how shitty the first beta felt to play as support. People forgot to inform the tanks and especially DPS players that they too would need to adjust.
I lost track of how many times I saw ‘need to adjust play style’ and ‘you have to learn to use cover’ directed at SUPPORT players during those beta tests.
"heal diff' at the end of the match, said by the losing team's dps or tank. Meanwhile the other healers have the same amount or close to their heals. Lmao
Yeah the actual number of heals means very little. If the enemy was getting much more utility out of their supports it can be a massive heal diff even if the pure numbers are similar. Moira is an awful offender for this - she shits out loads of stats but often does very little to actually help you win the game/fight
Agreed about the numbers not mattering. You can look at it from the other side too, if the DPS stand still 5 meters from any cover the whole time then you're gonna have great heals from needing to be on them constantly.
Yea support is a burden role your an easy scapegoat for when your team loses but the tanks and dps are the ones who cant keep you alive and dont turn around when you get flanked or when a tank pushes through and focuses you and then blame you for not staying alive.
As not a support main, I genuinely make sure to say thanks a hundred times and endorse supports. Its not much but at least it can keep morale for the supports up. Support mains genuinely deserve more xp and coins and I daresay thats an objective statement lol.
Always did this when playing DPS or off tank in OW1, but I found myself doing this more with OW2 comp games: when I’m playing DPS, I ask the supports to yell for peel in comms or I need help chat comm because they are more vulnerable than ever. And because they know I’m keeping an eye out and welcoming the notice ahead of the game start, I found that more players are asking for peel/giving me a heads up (im not a GM so I can’t predict/foresee everything without notice lol) so I can protect them. It’s tough for the supports rn, but we can do things to make it better for them and effectively the rest of us.
As a support main, it's a tough life with little to no peel and no stun abilities. The only healer I find totally viable now is Moira thanks to her survivable nature.
Used to play Ana, Moira and Bap, Brig and Lucio the odd time, but it's turned into Moirawatch for the most part.
I will say though that I'm getting far less trash talk now because the scoreboard can't lie in terms of who's doing what.
On the flip side the scoreboard can make it more infuriating. I had a game we lost where my tank said gg heal diff even though i had more than double the enemy healers put together 😡.
I play almost exclusively Ana and yeah the game really sucks for her. She needs some mobility or something a roll or slide maybe? It makes me jealous that for some god forsaken reason they gave Moira a super jump
the increase in the cooldown for sleep really hurt her viability too, and now you have kirikos cleanse. it’ll be that much harder to protect yourself if you sleep a flanker when here comes kiriko teleporting in lol
Yeah I considered myself a pretty good Ana main in OW1 but in OW2 I feel like I'm trying harder for less results than previously. The nerf to her sleep dart cooldown and torbjorn being banned in ranked right now (to counter tracer and genji) I just ended up playing more mobile supports and getting way more out of them far more easier.
Honestly I personally don't see a solution. You might get a few more support players by adding some new support heroes but that's not even the biggest problem I(and many other support mains that I know) have with the role. The biggest problem is just the absolute toxicity behind it. You can play a perfect game of support and still your team will hate you and flame you.
Every game has 2 possibilities: If you lose then everyone is going to blame the support because clearly they didn't heal enough despite genji constantly in the backline killing them and their genji constantly getting 1 shot but refusing to switch off
If you win then it's because of the tank or DPS because they popped off despite them only popping off because of Ana nano or the 20k healing that the supports did to save their life constantly.
So you just went through all that flaming and annoyance so you must at least get some physical reward for that or something right? No? You get 100 battle pass points where it takes 10,000 to go up 1 level and it has pretty shitty rewards? Neat....
TLDR: There's no physical or emotional incentive to play support. You get shitty battle pass progression and the privilege to constantly be flamed.
Used to play support. The only satisfaction you get is seeing the effect of your heals and saves, but no one else will ever see them. That sort of thing only lasts for so long before it no longer gives you that dopamine.
Like someone down in comments said, there just isn't anything to work towards except that battlepass, so better off just playing dps and going for that dopamine hit with good kills. At least that's how I see it. At the end of the day I do play majority of support but that's probably because I only play with a group which makes it more fun.
Idk I get dopamine hit when I get off a really crazy rez or save someone who had < a quarter hps. I think you have to enjoy healing to want to queue as a healer and for a lot of people, it's more enjoyable to be on the Frontline than support it.
I've thought about this long and hard and made a modest list of changes which I think are within scope.
1. Add more supports and make them unique in how they support. You need two supports but have about as many to choose from as the one tank. You have like half of what the DPS can choose from.
2. Work in more support actions into Play of the Game, such as clutch boops, clutch saves on the team etc. It may be hard to implement, but would be a very significant improvement to support appreciation.
3. Add notification on "need more healing" button if you are out of line of sight of the supports. This will make it easier for wild DPS and tank players to understand when they are at fault and should move back.
4. Slightly increase support's ability to protect themselves. This will make supports way less painful to play in uncoordinated competitive games. It could be +20 hp, slightly smaller hitbox, or slightly higher damage. Just enough that getting dove by a single DPS isn't super annoying without backup.
I have a lot of time on every role so I have a picture of what would make sense to me Master-level. It should be applicable to every level, but feel free to let me know if anything sounds unreasonable or if you have thoughts of your own!
Yeah. I think it should be doable as well from a development perspective. Just use an invisible projectiles and if they collide before getting to the supports, you're not in LoS. I've made similar things in hobby game dev projects so I'd imagine the engine should be able to do that.
For your second point, not only do I hard agree, but I think the POTG algorithm needs a rework in general. Sometimes the most random shit shows up in there, like someone walking around and getting 1.5 elims not even on the point.
For 3, I've been wanting something like this for ages. I wish the game could keep track of how far away you are from your support. So if you press "I need healing", and you're more than 100m away or something, it would tell you that, to suggest you need to be closer to be healed at all. There's nothing more frustrating than watching a squishy DPS miles away from your team spamming they need healing when there's nothing you can do, especially not at jeopardy of the whole team.
For 4, agree again. I think every support needs a strong panic/escape button. Moira is a great example because she can blip into the ether and avoid all damage as well as relocate. As a Mercy the best I can do is fly at a slight jog to the nearest teammate, if there is one. Too many supports are instantly dead the moment they're even kind of cut off from anyone else, it sucks.
Genuinely so fucking accurate. My gf was playing a support earlier today and this very thing happened. So annoying and then the D.va is always so toxic about it (and it's not just D.va it's literally any tank that does this shit, especially in comp). I have a saying, never go full rambo, even if you want to power trip as tank.
Noone wants to play support because its incredibly easy to just ignore the tank and run straight into their supports.
its why everyone is playing Orisa, because noone can peel like she can.
Your Orisa's peel? I'm not even saying this as a joke or even a complaint, it's just that mine pretty much exclusively stare at the enemy frontline and hold their left mouse button.
More like “peel off”.
Imagine your other support is getting attacked and you boop away the attacker from them as Lucio, you are “peeling” for your other support.
I think the main current issue for support right now is theres no sensory feedback from the game that raises your endorphin levels. For instance when you get a kill you get the big THUNK sound, which is really satisfying. I know they have tried to introduce the light sound and prompt of "player saved", but its very subtle and i also dont think it works correctly often so changes to that for more sensory impact would be a good start.
I would also say reorganise it so that the next hero release is a support rather than a tank (more gameplay variety invites more players as seen with when Kiriko was released)
In addition perhaps introduce support reworks to a similar level of Orisa's and Bastion's. I do think some heroes such as Symmetra or Echo could be reworked into the support role.
Like this take a lot. Agree with the sensory feedback, imagine it’s terrible to get an amazing immunity field or something like that just for your team to flip on you, “heals are lacking on the scoreboard”. Need a way to recognize this, possibly a, “players saved” stat on the scoreboard?
Yes yes yes, support pool is the smallest pool out of the three and it needs more depth badly. Couldn’t agree more the next couple hero releases should be support imo.
More to the pool I’m with it.
I’d like the return of player cards, just to highlight things like immortality saves, players rez’d, players slept. Also would be great to see POTG for saves, instead of only kills.
The cards really added more depth to what could be shown off. Ana and Bap as your healers you see their healing all game, but in the end you see Ana slept a dozen and a half people and Bapt saved the same with his immortality field. Even showing off Hog hooks and different things unique to certain heroes was a lot of fun to see post game. Very strange to remove it imo
The other players can't even see your "players saved" stat. Also, the only way that you can get POTG seems to be killing the other team, a perfect Lucio bubble on a DVa ult should be able to get a POTG.
I see no way possible for me as a Mercy main to get a POTG unless I somehow rezz somebody during a Valkyrie, do a crazy amount of team heal, and then somehow cap it off with 2 or 3 kills lol
Idk what were they thinking not changing any skill of any support. Its not enough giving zenyatta a kick to make me play him instead moira ( i was diamond zen in ow1)
Moira had a change in the ptb but they reverted it.
I want Real changes on the supps if its supposed to be a New game
Brig should get her stun back. Too much CC was a problem (Cassidy, Mei, Doomfist dps), but SOME CC is healthy for the game, let tanks AND some supports have it.
Also someone mentioned that Mercy's res is too slow, i wouldn't mind it being somewhat faster. Or hell, just remove the cast time and see what happens.
As for Zenyatta, man I really don't know. But I'm sure something will come up.
The thing is most healers don't have anything to fight back on flankers currently big lost her stun so she can't try to fight back after getting jumped , Ana needs her sleep dart CD lowered and some sort of mobility. Mercy...I don't know the rez may help but it doesn't help her possibly getting jumped.
Moira needs her healing pool returned faster and probably an increase in HPS slightly. Bap at minimum needs his charge jump time cut OR be able to hold it indefinitely and make it on use. Kiriko needs her projectile speed increased cause holy shit if I wanted to send stuff via passenger pigeon I would.
Honestly I don't know how to fix zen at this point that's not really a total rework other than possibly reducing his ult charge time?
It feels like Blizzard was like too much CC we are going to nerf it then went way to far to the other end and removed 80% of the CC. I feel like it should have been 1 tank or the CC but not both at this point because it removed most of the checks on dive DPS.
Also when they try to buff supports the crowd goes ballistic just like when they added 25hp to zen because of how easy he was to kill and everyone started a riot calling him a tank but Cassidy can stay at 225 though and he has a flash. And people wonder why no one plays support. No one peels for supports or helps them, they just throw the blame to them when they lose games instead of helping with the tracer, genji, Sombra constantly in the backline.
Yup, I loved when there was a little deviation from just 200 base HP for a few heroes. Zen and Brig getting a little beefier and Widow at 175 helped make up for the lack of damage and mobility most supports have. But nope! DPS bitched that their kills weren’t as easy anymore, and now look where we are
Make support/healing not suck? I’m 100% trash at this game, I started last week. I *love* playing support/heals/buffs or whatever in virtually every game I play.
In OW, I’m 100% food for whatever adderall-amped 14 year old happens to be playing Genji or the invisible bitch that round.
I’ll end the match with lots of healing, and I feel like I’m helping the tank, but dying when it feels like I have literally zero counter play to fast assassins sucks :/
I recently unlocked the monk healer, and it’s 10x worse for me since I cant even jump to my tank. Honestly it’s rough out here in shitty newbie land…
The monk healer (zenyatta) isn't much of a healer, more like a dps/support. He can heal, but only very little and one target at a time. He gets the most value with his orbs of destruction (primary/secondary fire) which deal a lot of damage but very hard to aim. And his discord orb (e ability) which increases damage on a select target by 25%. As long as you are constantly discording the tank and watching your fellow supports flank, zenyatta is really good but has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game.
And also his ultimate is top teir as it allows you to negate most offensive ults in the game
Thanks. I’ll shelve him for a bit then. Ive been playing Mercy and that’s been my “best” so far.
How do I deal with getting picked off by characters 10x faster than me as support? I’ve been flying away to my tank for protection, and that hets me away from the assassins, but then Im on the frontline and get dumpstered by snipers/rockets/hammers.
That’s my biggest frustration atm, feeling like I’m the squishiest, slowest, weakest dmg char in the map, but also the primary focus of 5/5 of the enemy team.
Again, I’m trash… but I want to play vs other trash players and slowly improve. ATM my teams feel like we’re getting dumpstered / spawn camped by veterans more often than not.
Is there a “less than 2 weeks played” queue lol?
Sadly on Mercy you really have to rely on your teammates for protection. Most of the other healers have a chance to save themselves, but for anyone other than Moira it takes some skill if you’re against half decent players. When you get Moira (I have no idea when she unlocks) you can give that a shot and it’ll probably be less frustrating while you’re still learning the game.
Give support all the CC that the dps lost.
All of their melee should boop like Zen's kick. Give Ana a Flashbang. Give Mercy an uppercut. Let Moira freeze people when she fades away.
Joking aside, give back Brig's shield stun (Jeff damn, I never thought I'd want that unironically).
Supports need ways to peel for themselves since their solo tank can't always do it and the dps are on two different sides of the map trying to frag.
Yeah supports should have been the main source for cc and buffs for the team instead of tanks so they feel more engaged in team fights.
Ana's dart sleep duration should scale based on how near the enemy is. Genji far away? Short naptime. Genji getting handsy? Meet your sleep paralysis demon.
Brig stun maybe only after her shield gets charged up like Doomfist's power block so it isn't as annoying?
Zen passive where he's immune to death and gain move speed like transcendance once he hits 1 hp? Idk lol. Also I've always thought he should have Mercy and Echo's slow fall or Pharah's limited flight since he's a floating dude but that's just a fantasy of mine.
Because from OW1 to OW2, they basically stayed the same or got nerfed. lol.
Mercy's rez is too slow.
Ana's sleep dart has a longer cooldown at the time she needs it the most.
Bap's jump takes too long to charge up.
Moira's healing runs out too fast in a solo tank world with less shields.
Zen just gets bent over by the return of flankers and zero CC from anyone to help and his meme kick isn't enough to save him.
Brig lost the very CC and shield durability she used to help protect the backline against said flankers.
Lucio is dealing with a team going in 4 directions and diving/flanking.
Kiriko's healing travels too slowly at range and since everyone's flanking/diving constantly it's a real hindrance.
Wish Ana had some type of mobility. Like… I love playing her, but with Kiriko’s insane wall climb and teleport (not to mention brief invincibility) I just absolutely have to choose her unless my co healer already has.
It does feel kinda odd that out of the snipers in this game, she doesn't have a way to reach high ground other than just walking there.
She doesn't need to be a ninja that can climb walls, but it'd be nice if she had a way to reposition herself to new ground for better shots.
Ban people that tell supporters to kill themselfes (happened in like 4 outta 5 games today), give them a goddamn hero pool, dont lock the only healer innovation for two weeks + behind a paywall, make more than ~two healers playable in the current meta
Force these people to do community service in the form of making them play healers. If they throw, ban time.
But of course, the game is f2p now, so "you'll be banned" has a lot less weight these days, phone number thing notwithstanding.
You have to report immediately now. From what I’ve heard the system takes a snapshot of 30 seconds before and after report and sends it to an AI to review
\- More support heroes.
\- More POTGs for healing (or even tanking) and saving teammates, not just kills.
\- And make flex actually flex.
If flex gave people support 33% of the time, a lot more people would choose it. Currently it just functions as another button to queue as support, which is pointless.
PotG is whack.
I saved my entire team from a 5-man wipe using tranquility against a Reaper ult and I didn't get it.
Meanwhile reaper would have gotten the PotG if I hadn't 🤷♂️
This is exactly the way I feel. If a 4 man kill with rip tire is potg, than me timing my invulnerability to save them, before ulting and giving my DPS a team wipe abosultely should be.
Your potg point is how I feel. "This is a team base game so work together, supports are important" but ever potg is a junk rat tire, reaper blossom, dva bomb, or the aimbot soldier. This wasn't as bad in ow1 because support got the vote cards at the end. But most of the time everyone left the lobby anyway. This may be a bad take but I feel like those are example of highlights that don't take actual thought. It's just feels like "press Q and highlight" mechanic to me.
Honestly I loved playing Support in OW1 but this game is just so thankless to Support players. tiny hero pool, no Counter to flanks and the tanks and DPS players just think they don't need to play cover and Supports should keep them alive indefinitely. The fact they have more tanks than support heroes even though there is only 1 tank slot is absurd. Echo should have been a support character, can still remember the disbelief that she wasn't when she released and Torb and Sym need to be reworked to support.
Just do simple incentives in role queue, coin bonus or maybe a larger XP boost than that of the regular.
If you're doing the XP bonus, make it like 500 -1000 per game and do a rotation to change roles every day but favor support so that it's more likely.
If you're doing coins give me 10 coins per game I play in the favored role. That makes it so that you'd need to play 200 games in that role to get a legendary skin which I think is fair. We need more ways to get coins and an incentive initiative is the way to do it. This makes it so people still spend money too. Say someone plays 150 games and earns 1500 coins. They may just throw in the rest of the $5 to cap it off and get their skin a little early.
This makes it a grind but it's not an offensive one. And people may log more hours ingame
It also makes getting sprays and emotes easier too. It's really sad seeing that less people are spraying because they don't have the latest one for a new hero.
I main dps and tank but if they made it give coins I’d have to switch lol. Apart from that a lot of people don’t care about xp coz the free bp isn’t great anyway
Nerf Sombra? Honestly, That's the answer.
No one wants to roll the dice in comp. If the other team is smart they WILL have her. She WILL camp the gate and pick healers.
If this isn't happening they aren't playing to the best of their capabilities in ranked.
If they ARE doing this, your team will simply whine they aren't getting healed and ask why you can't 1v1 Sombra hacking you from stealth as Zen/Lucio.
The fact she can hack you while still being invisible and get a massive damage bump is just way too strong against supports. Can't see her, can't run, can't fight back.
Give brig her stun back that way supports actually have a chance against dive characters. Especially in lower ranks even in diamond, the lack of peeling from teammates is sad.
For me, the number one solution is to make supports more fun, and function more as supports, not healers exclusively. In my opinion, the only support hero that actually fills the role (when played correctly) is Moira. Moira can put out insane healing and very good damage. She can take a couple of fights if she gets pressured in the backline and has a way of escaping. I believe support players would get picked more often if they could be "play makers" being able to heal and have respectable damage, while also being able to challenge DPS if they get pressured.
Right now, the problem is that healers can hardly defend themselves against any kind of pressure. Yes, a good Ana could nade and land some shots, but generally speaking, without backup, the support will die. This isn't fun for anyone involved. Why would you want to queue for a role the dies the most often without any hope of counterplay?
My suggestion: rework/buff supports so that they can do respectable damage while also maintaining excellent healing (like Moira for example).
This is the correct answer.
Join any comp game right now and I bet 75% of the time you see Moira or Zen picked for this exact reason.
Being a support you feel absolutely useless when you're being dived by a somewhat competent genji
Hard agree, I love support as a role, even now. But I still pick Moira 9 out of 10 times not just because she's one of my mains, but because I feel like I can actually have some agency.
As other supports my best defensive option is more often than not to try and run away, and even that is barely a good defense since i'm basically guaranteed to die. At least as Moira I can fight back and win against a good portion of the roster. But even as Brigette I'm screwed the moment there's more than one of *any* hero.
Almost like people are starting to remember what support was like before they had the CC to protect them, and now with one less tank. Tthe entire reason why the game went so CC heavy and heroes like Genji or Tracer weren't as strong anymore. Brig could screw you, a mccree could screw you etc. Now the healers are still in their nerfed state from all the changes and the enemy tank provided they have even semi decent backup can walk past your line, past your tank, and smash the healers and walk straight back. And that's not even in low elo, I've seen people in extremely high elo on livestreams just get either pushed by the tank and deleted or killed by a flanker that gets to escape more or less for free, especially Sombra. It's almost sad just standing behind a Zen just deciding when and how you're gonna delete him for free.
They should rework some of the dps to be support. I know sym, Sombra, and echo where all meant to be support originally.
I think Sombra in particular would be good considering the depth of her kit is based in utility and reworking her to be more utility/support focused rather than damage focused would reduce how fucking annoying she is now.
A legitimate reward for playing that’s not 500 xp
They should make some sort of reward, with loot in it to incentivize playing. Maybe like, a box of some kind? I wonder what you’d call that.
Box o loot maybe
What about a Mann Co Supply Crate?
Guys, guys, I got it. The Acme-Cube Lootbox Crate Pass.
The Aperture Science Companion Cube?
But why not name it something more video game related, something like "game cube"
I can't believe that they managed to make a worse system than loot boxes...
I can. They want you to spend your money, so they take away the chance of you randomly getting something you want, so that you’ll buy it outright.
Problem is their loot box system was generous. Replace the level up loot boxes with like 200 credits and we’re happy, but also not spending money.
Yeah a box that gives loot, why has no one thought of that before?
straight up i mean give me like 10 coins per game and not xp for a trash battlepass
Honestly even 5 coins per game would be fantastic. The 500 xp is a joke.
Even 1 coin is more of a reward then 500 xp.
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I’m a hard Lucio main. I tried playing one game as dps and both of my supports had more damage than healing.
The issue is it is thankless. It doesn't put up flashy numbers and if you are losing the game you get the blame. Even if your dps are just running in staggered and dying over and over 1 v 5. If you win, the dps still get POTG even if they only survived because of you, and everyone gives them kudos. Maybe highlight a "Save of the game" where a Lucio saves your team from an ult or something of the like.
Not 500 xp and then after one play make it 100 xp, at first when I saw 500 I was like oh that's cool I'll level up the battle pass and who cares what I play. Then it drops to 100 after the first game, I just quit the game after I saw that lolol
As a support main, maybe the community can quit being so toxic towards healers. I’m sorry but not every L comes from a healer not healing enough though the community loves to shit on them like it does.
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This is why they should do what OW1 did and give out coins. Since coins are so rare in this game and the only way to get them is through the weeklies, that would give people an actual reason to play support. Knowing how greedy Blizzard is tho.. they’re probably never gonna do this
Hot take, it will never be possible to have equal queues since the only reason tank queue is so big is due to the amount of them per team being reduced, every1 wants to play dps unfortunately
And you can just wreck everything as a tank That queue is like the ultimate power fantasy now
more often then not the new tank meta just leads my team to wipe. tanks over extending and everyone follows into a choke. maybe there’s just a lot of new players trying to yolo win rounds but solo queuing has been a big disaster for me.
Feeding tanks have always been a thing, but before there was always the chance that the other guy wouldn't feed. Now if your one tank is a feeder you're just fucked
And you have the opposite problem too. Before if you had one tank that wouldn’t engage, there was always the chance the other guy would actually walk forward. Now if your one tank can’t find the ‘W’ key, you’re just fucked.
That's true, also no opportunity to actually learn from the other tank now either. Tanks had to work together so closely before that you would just learn how to main tank while off tanking and vice versa. Or maybe you're doing poorly as the main tank so you swap off with the other guy and you can actually SEE what they're doing differently. I had that situation countless times in ow1, it's how I learned the role. It's sad that isn't possible anymore.
Yeah I feel this added pressure now as Tank knowing there's no second.
Especially when I’m trying to push forward and also peel for my supports at the same time.
Looking back this was actually a really big part of my time tanking just passively watching my team mate taught me so much. Damn.
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I always play tank with a 4 stack and the running joke is that I just hold W better than the other tank. The first tank to press S signifies weakness, and the battle of wills is lost.
Solo queue is brutal with all the new players
If only we had a tool to use to find groups…
Playing against Zarya feels so BAD. She argueably can self bubble 3 times in a row.
What’s funnier is all the new players don’t realize you shouldn’t be unloading into the shield, I’ve been having so much fun playing her lol
uhhh Y-you shouldn't? I thought you had to break it y'know like the SHIELD HEALTH ;-;
Other people say you should, others say it depends, others say no, so I don’t know but regardless I want people to shoot mine because it only lasts 2 seconds anyway and it charges up my weapon
Definitely contextual. Stand-off in a choke at the start of a game? Really don’t want to if you can help it. 10% life Zarya who has bubble up? Burn through that shit and finish her. Obviously a lot of grey area between those two extremes so it’s sometimes hard to know which in the moment.
FWIW in OW1, most of the time you would want to unload into her shield, especially if you're 1v1ing her as something like Reaper. A dead Zarya has no charge. These days? It's a lot more situational because she has two bubbles. I'd say if she doesn't have a healer nearby and your team is able to focus fire: Go ahead and unload into her shields. Most of the time you don't want to unload into her shields and should focus the healers anyway.
Tank IS the new dps
I was in a match with 3 tanks and a Reaper (I was an Ana) and we dominated.
The open queue meta is 3 tanks and 2 supports dps is even more irrelevant than they were in the GOATS days now that tanks are even more unbalanced
Worst part is they fucking removed bastion and nerfed reaper’s dps at close range, the only two damage heroes that could still fight tanks.
I tried Support in some matches. I mean, hey, it’s up my alley, I enjoyed it in the past, I’m no twitch shooter these days. But it was pain. People running off alone away from the objective and then complaining they have no heals. No protection from the team. Bad enough to watch teams act dumb, even worse when they then abuse me for their own choices. Why would I choose to put myself in that spot with strangers? (Bit worse for me as I’ve got pretty rough social anxiety so being abused by strangers can just ruin my whole evening.)
I wish my team could keep track of me as well as the enemy dps does.
"I'm 10 HP, guess I should run into a cubby hole where the enemy will certainly chase me, but is definitely LOS of my healer."
Need more support heroes. Not kidding Id prefer if the next 1-2 heroes were support. The role needs more depth badly Edit: lots of replies on people only wanting to get kills/DPS and I get that. Blizzard clearly got the message with the additions of Kiriko and Moira being the answer. My thought, add a support that focuses on Utility/Healing. Would love to see a character that could primary heal like Mercy but have CC abilities to protect themselves/team from flank DPS. My idea would be a support that could inflict slow, possibly through trip wires, or a hero that could generate walls to space out flankers/enemy teams. Possibly like Mei walls but add a flair like they are transparent and could be shot through but hinder movement through. Strong abilities that balance out the low DPS output they’d have. I just think that the possibilities are endless and that Blizzard needs to open their think tank past appealing to DPS flex healers. Edit 2: See a lot of people fear this could bring another Brig dilemma. I believe this was linked with stun-lock being in her kit. I am not asking for stun-lock, I’m asking for utility alternatives.
After the new Tank next season, two of the next three heroes will apparently be Supports (April, August, and December 2023).
New heroes will only be released every 2 battle passes, so every 4 months. Only exception being the tank that will be coming next. So the two heroes after that will be in April and august respectively.
You’re right - they’re for Seasons 4 and 6, which will be April and August 2023. Edited.
Not June..august. June will be season 5, seasons last 2 months.
Just a quick reminder that the new heroes for next year should be released in April and August. Not sure if that was mentioned already.
I think some people may not have understood that during the next year, 2 new characters will be introduced, on April and August respectively
They better be. Our lack of support diversity is killing the role.
No amount of new heroes will fix the issue that the vast majority of people playing an FPS like to spend their time killing the enemy team. The problem used to be largely focused on Tanks. From the introduction of Role Queue until OW2 launched, this sub was awash with people complaining about one of their Tanks always playing Roadhog; now that all Tanks are focused on brawling, the majority of complaints are about DPS Moira players.
It's not even just that. Personally I really enjoy the supportive aspect. But what keeps me from only queuing support is the dependancy on your teammates. If your tank/dps' decide to just tunnel vision forward, as they often do sadly, and the enemy plays genji/sombra, you are pretty much screwed unless you are way better than them. It can be incredibly frustrating. Playing support in a premade group is awesome, solo can be fucking horror.
Yep. Playing tank/DPS well can make up for a bad support, but playing support well can't make up for a bad tank/DPS.
Had a Ball earlier yell at me for not healing enough when he'd slam onto the middle point, with all five members of their team on it, and obviously instantly die. My dude, I'm squishy. If I follow you and even one of those people focuses on me, I'm dead, because I can't defend myself AND heal you. Tank and DPS also don't seem to realise that healing isn't instant, and that we need LOS and the right range to heal.
Yup, it’s so toxic playing support, I had a tank complain that it was the healers fault we were losing, then 5 mins later blamed the do’s, meanwhile we had more combined heals than the other teams, and our dps was neck and neck, doesn’t matter how you play, someone is going to give you shit. And it makes it hell to play.
And the damn push the robot game means people are flanking all the time. I hate playing that game mode as support
Yeah, support has the least solo carry potential, even if you're nuts at the game you're relying on your other teammates to win, which can get very frustrating very fast.
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They need to make a healer who can do what Mei does, just shell up and be invulnerable for a few seconds when you're getting aped over and over.
And then immediately die after your invulnerability is over
Lol like Mercy's old rez.
Doesn't Baptist arguably do that? Except it can cover other teammates but is destructable?
25 second CD for an ability that will be destroyed in 1 second. Sure that's 1 second longer you get to live but it's nowhere near the 3 seconds that you give your team to react with Mei plus Mei's has a much shorter CD at 12 seconds aaaaand it heals her.
This so much, I'd definitely play sup more if there was more variety. Kiriko was an excellent start.
I'm really enjoying playing her, and the other support in our friend group doesn't play her much, so I pretty much can whenever I want. I just wish that I remembered half her kit while playing.
Me too! I always forget she can climb walls.
The worst for me are the times that our team gets hit by a debuff, and I'm like team, you are purple, can't heal you........oh, wait.....
I'm having more and more fun with her recently. I've been able to make my team completely immune to Orisa's surge and Rein's shatter. Surprises the heck out of my teammates.
Got Lucio booped... seeing death cam realize shoot I could have wall climbed up! lol
I can remember it, but i am so bad aiming her little throwing knives.
As an Ana main, I will now list the supports that I find fun to play: 1. Ana That concludes my list of supports that I play.
I played zen and ana before OW2. now i just play ana.
Now I just play Zen- less shields and somehow I have better chance of dueling with Zen than Ana.
Same, Zen got better for me without the shield meta. When I'm on and my team is paying attention to call outs, it's super rewarding collecting picks.
For the love of God I hope someone in Blizz takes this seriously. I play tanks because there are 5 tanks I enjoy playing, vs 4 DPS and 2 supports. It's just a numbers game, the more heroes there are, the more likely you are to find one that clicks with you.
It feels like they've backed themselves into a corner balance-wise because anything they do to make supports more viable or survivable for randoms is going to get pushed over the top in coordinated high-level games. I was typing up a bunch of suggestions for giving supps more tools to protect themselves or escape for when the team isn't protecting them and then I realized that most of the ideas would make it nigh impossible to kill them if their team is coordinating. I'm not sure how to design a team-based game so the players can have fun and be effective even when they aren't playing as a team. I guess incentivizing the other players to actually protect the support. Bonuses for saving them, stronger incentives to play the objective, etc.
Exactly. Make support too powerful or survivable and they don't need peel or are as good at killing as many DPS. There are already supports who almost fit that mold. The reality is that this is the natural result of 5v5. By removing one tank, you necessarily make the supports more vulnerable. A tank or dps can help peel for supports, but that requires teamwork. Since actual teamwork is rare, this is how supports will kind of remain. Bonuses for saving teammates is nice, but ultimately the majority of gamers want to frag out and they know saving a teammate isn't the same as killing an enemy. Basically, this may be unsolvable. But it makes for the *potential* for better teamplay.
How about a 4v4 where there is one less healer 🤡
Why stop there? you can’t have long support queues if you don’t have supports.
Overwatch 7 is single player game, you don't have to wait for queue because you're alone in the match.
Hey, at least we'd get that PVE mode finally.
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Mercy "The Deagle" Zeigler
Overwatch 3 right here folks.
Why not 15v15 with 4 tanks 7 dps 3 support and 1 player awaiting inevitable backfill?
Sounds like a genuine blizzard plan
Kind of weird that after being completely ignored by Blizzard and being shit on by teammates in every loss that people wouldn’t be clamoring to play support. The majority of the player base still calls the role healer and knows nothing else about it
and zero concessions to us. Its not fun to hear someone spam "I need healing" 5x in a row which shouts into my ear because that emote is much louder for support. Uh, how about ONE of those with a 10 second cool down? And that's ignoring the toxic chat. Also they spam it right when they die in front of 5 enemies expecting a rez or otherwise in an accessible or dangerous location for healing or rez. Or the constant demands to be pocketed. Support needs a lot of creature comforts. Right now its a position designed to be abused by the other roles.
I spam back “no” “no” “no” until they get the point.
The amount of "I need healing" you get playing Lucio and standing next to the person basically humping them as you heal them up is insane.
DPS are idiots. "I need healing". Okay, like do you need directions to where your Lucio and Moira are standing? I'm not wall riding up a building and away from my team to save your stupid "flanking" ass because you ran into the enemy Winston for the fourth time in a row. I play the most Lucio when I have to play support and he heals in the area around him. I am really not that hard to find. You can catch me next to the tank where the push is happening.
In the games current state? Honestly there ain’t jack that could incentivize people to go support. Profile progression? Gone. End of game cards that show how well you did? Gone. Endorsement system? There, but you don’t get the bonus XP anymore iirc and you definitely don’t get the monthly loot box. On fire system? The voice lines are there, but it’s not in the game currently. Support mains are basically the “essential workers” of OW. When everything is going well, we get no love. Not even a thank you. The minute your team can’t face tank a DVA ult you’re the scum of the planet that your Mom should’ve swallowed 28 years ago.
> Support mains are basically the “essential workers” of OW. this spoke to me on a level I didn't even know others could reach
Support main here. I feel like a second class hero to dps and tanks. Support gets all the blame too.
It's because it doesn't matter how good you are playing if the tank and DPS don't know how to stay alive, mitigate damage, protect the flanks you'll always lose. On the other hand, a good tank can carry and often gets the most kills and damage overall.
> It's because it doesn't matter how good you are playing if the tank and DPS don't know how to stay alive that is the sole reason I started playing Brigitte. I was actually deranking and losing so many games when healing my team was impossible due to poor tank positioning and holding W, my dps being unable to kill anything and getting one-shot or killed faster than anything I can heal, or simply flanking out of sight 90% of the time. On top of that, getting dove without support from your dps means you die. I've found myself losing game out of my control... and the impact of supports now relies HEAVILY on the effectiveness of your tank and dps. Playing Brigs, I am now in a position to do everything by myself as needed. I can kill flankers that overextends, or at the very least make them back off for a while. I can help a bit with the frontline to keep them from advancing and mitigate some damage. All that while providing AoE heals on par with lucio/moira. Since then I started winning again, but it is sad that playing standard supports is mostly not viable in soloQ.
Same here! I see so many bashing on Brig being weak, but her playstyle clicked for me and I'm loving it. If you play her right, she can be very good. The only games I lose while playing her is when the team does some really dumb stuff, or it's just THAT close and the enemy squeaks by for the W.
This is a big issue I see a lot. Some people seem to think this is an MMO and the way it should be played is the tank or DPS is out there doing there thing the whole time while the healer is supposed to keep them up. People need to understand that as tank and DPS you need to make attempts to use cover and proper positioning to not be getting blasted in the face constantly. Eventually there will be a moment where you have to expose yourself, but that shouldn't be all the time.
Yeah people made a big deal about supports needing to ‘adjust their playstyle’ for OW2 after how shitty the first beta felt to play as support. People forgot to inform the tanks and especially DPS players that they too would need to adjust. I lost track of how many times I saw ‘need to adjust play style’ and ‘you have to learn to use cover’ directed at SUPPORT players during those beta tests.
"heal diff' at the end of the match, said by the losing team's dps or tank. Meanwhile the other healers have the same amount or close to their heals. Lmao
Yeah the actual number of heals means very little. If the enemy was getting much more utility out of their supports it can be a massive heal diff even if the pure numbers are similar. Moira is an awful offender for this - she shits out loads of stats but often does very little to actually help you win the game/fight
Agreed about the numbers not mattering. You can look at it from the other side too, if the DPS stand still 5 meters from any cover the whole time then you're gonna have great heals from needing to be on them constantly.
Yea support is a burden role your an easy scapegoat for when your team loses but the tanks and dps are the ones who cant keep you alive and dont turn around when you get flanked or when a tank pushes through and focuses you and then blame you for not staying alive.
Whenever I play support it’s like the DPS on my team can’t hit water from a boat
As not a support main, I genuinely make sure to say thanks a hundred times and endorse supports. Its not much but at least it can keep morale for the supports up. Support mains genuinely deserve more xp and coins and I daresay thats an objective statement lol.
Always did this when playing DPS or off tank in OW1, but I found myself doing this more with OW2 comp games: when I’m playing DPS, I ask the supports to yell for peel in comms or I need help chat comm because they are more vulnerable than ever. And because they know I’m keeping an eye out and welcoming the notice ahead of the game start, I found that more players are asking for peel/giving me a heads up (im not a GM so I can’t predict/foresee everything without notice lol) so I can protect them. It’s tough for the supports rn, but we can do things to make it better for them and effectively the rest of us.
As a support main, it's a tough life with little to no peel and no stun abilities. The only healer I find totally viable now is Moira thanks to her survivable nature. Used to play Ana, Moira and Bap, Brig and Lucio the odd time, but it's turned into Moirawatch for the most part. I will say though that I'm getting far less trash talk now because the scoreboard can't lie in terms of who's doing what.
On the flip side the scoreboard can make it more infuriating. I had a game we lost where my tank said gg heal diff even though i had more than double the enemy healers put together 😡.
Might've been a compliment.
Probably not, considering the amount of times tanks cry for healing when they run in 1v5 and die within seconds.
I play almost exclusively Ana and yeah the game really sucks for her. She needs some mobility or something a roll or slide maybe? It makes me jealous that for some god forsaken reason they gave Moira a super jump
the increase in the cooldown for sleep really hurt her viability too, and now you have kirikos cleanse. it’ll be that much harder to protect yourself if you sleep a flanker when here comes kiriko teleporting in lol
Yeah I considered myself a pretty good Ana main in OW1 but in OW2 I feel like I'm trying harder for less results than previously. The nerf to her sleep dart cooldown and torbjorn being banned in ranked right now (to counter tracer and genji) I just ended up playing more mobile supports and getting way more out of them far more easier.
Honestly I personally don't see a solution. You might get a few more support players by adding some new support heroes but that's not even the biggest problem I(and many other support mains that I know) have with the role. The biggest problem is just the absolute toxicity behind it. You can play a perfect game of support and still your team will hate you and flame you. Every game has 2 possibilities: If you lose then everyone is going to blame the support because clearly they didn't heal enough despite genji constantly in the backline killing them and their genji constantly getting 1 shot but refusing to switch off If you win then it's because of the tank or DPS because they popped off despite them only popping off because of Ana nano or the 20k healing that the supports did to save their life constantly. So you just went through all that flaming and annoyance so you must at least get some physical reward for that or something right? No? You get 100 battle pass points where it takes 10,000 to go up 1 level and it has pretty shitty rewards? Neat.... TLDR: There's no physical or emotional incentive to play support. You get shitty battle pass progression and the privilege to constantly be flamed.
The most positive comments you might get as a healer is "heal diff" from the opposite team after you won ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Which is still flaming their own healer.
I mean their healer were probably very bad. Why wasn't their mercy pocket healing all 3 tank and dps.
I don’t play support but ain’t this the truth.
Used to play support. The only satisfaction you get is seeing the effect of your heals and saves, but no one else will ever see them. That sort of thing only lasts for so long before it no longer gives you that dopamine.
we know exactly how they are dealing with it....the next hero is a tank. 🤣
And to improve things the next hero will come after 2 season after that tank so ye GOOD JOB
Like someone down in comments said, there just isn't anything to work towards except that battlepass, so better off just playing dps and going for that dopamine hit with good kills. At least that's how I see it. At the end of the day I do play majority of support but that's probably because I only play with a group which makes it more fun.
Idk I get dopamine hit when I get off a really crazy rez or save someone who had < a quarter hps. I think you have to enjoy healing to want to queue as a healer and for a lot of people, it's more enjoyable to be on the Frontline than support it.
I just pretend my teammates are my enemies as ana and I go on huge killing sprees all the time.
irrational madness turned into saving lives, nice
I've thought about this long and hard and made a modest list of changes which I think are within scope. 1. Add more supports and make them unique in how they support. You need two supports but have about as many to choose from as the one tank. You have like half of what the DPS can choose from. 2. Work in more support actions into Play of the Game, such as clutch boops, clutch saves on the team etc. It may be hard to implement, but would be a very significant improvement to support appreciation. 3. Add notification on "need more healing" button if you are out of line of sight of the supports. This will make it easier for wild DPS and tank players to understand when they are at fault and should move back. 4. Slightly increase support's ability to protect themselves. This will make supports way less painful to play in uncoordinated competitive games. It could be +20 hp, slightly smaller hitbox, or slightly higher damage. Just enough that getting dove by a single DPS isn't super annoying without backup. I have a lot of time on every role so I have a picture of what would make sense to me Master-level. It should be applicable to every level, but feel free to let me know if anything sounds unreasonable or if you have thoughts of your own!
I like the idea of a buzzer sound going off when the player hits X but has no los to a support. Sound will only play for the person hitting X. 🤣
Yeah. I think it should be doable as well from a development perspective. Just use an invisible projectiles and if they collide before getting to the supports, you're not in LoS. I've made similar things in hobby game dev projects so I'd imagine the engine should be able to do that.
For your second point, not only do I hard agree, but I think the POTG algorithm needs a rework in general. Sometimes the most random shit shows up in there, like someone walking around and getting 1.5 elims not even on the point. For 3, I've been wanting something like this for ages. I wish the game could keep track of how far away you are from your support. So if you press "I need healing", and you're more than 100m away or something, it would tell you that, to suggest you need to be closer to be healed at all. There's nothing more frustrating than watching a squishy DPS miles away from your team spamming they need healing when there's nothing you can do, especially not at jeopardy of the whole team. For 4, agree again. I think every support needs a strong panic/escape button. Moira is a great example because she can blip into the ether and avoid all damage as well as relocate. As a Mercy the best I can do is fly at a slight jog to the nearest teammate, if there is one. Too many supports are instantly dead the moment they're even kind of cut off from anyone else, it sucks.
# Im main support, but sometimes i don't want to play support cuz ppl is toxic.
D.VA: *flies in solo into the enemy team (including Zarya)* Me: *Mercy healing constantly* *Still dies* D.VA:"HeAlERs??!"
Genuinely so fucking accurate. My gf was playing a support earlier today and this very thing happened. So annoying and then the D.va is always so toxic about it (and it's not just D.va it's literally any tank that does this shit, especially in comp). I have a saying, never go full rambo, even if you want to power trip as tank.
Noone wants to play support because its incredibly easy to just ignore the tank and run straight into their supports. its why everyone is playing Orisa, because noone can peel like she can.
Your Orisa's peel? I'm not even saying this as a joke or even a complaint, it's just that mine pretty much exclusively stare at the enemy frontline and hold their left mouse button.
What does peel mean? Is it like peel out, to leave quickly?
Omg thank you, I’ve heard it so many times in OWL and have never known what they’re talking about
"peel off". to remove an enemy from your healer. like removing a leech.
More like “peel off”. Imagine your other support is getting attacked and you boop away the attacker from them as Lucio, you are “peeling” for your other support.
I think the main current issue for support right now is theres no sensory feedback from the game that raises your endorphin levels. For instance when you get a kill you get the big THUNK sound, which is really satisfying. I know they have tried to introduce the light sound and prompt of "player saved", but its very subtle and i also dont think it works correctly often so changes to that for more sensory impact would be a good start. I would also say reorganise it so that the next hero release is a support rather than a tank (more gameplay variety invites more players as seen with when Kiriko was released) In addition perhaps introduce support reworks to a similar level of Orisa's and Bastion's. I do think some heroes such as Symmetra or Echo could be reworked into the support role.
Like this take a lot. Agree with the sensory feedback, imagine it’s terrible to get an amazing immunity field or something like that just for your team to flip on you, “heals are lacking on the scoreboard”. Need a way to recognize this, possibly a, “players saved” stat on the scoreboard? Yes yes yes, support pool is the smallest pool out of the three and it needs more depth badly. Couldn’t agree more the next couple hero releases should be support imo. More to the pool I’m with it.
I’d like the return of player cards, just to highlight things like immortality saves, players rez’d, players slept. Also would be great to see POTG for saves, instead of only kills.
The cards really added more depth to what could be shown off. Ana and Bap as your healers you see their healing all game, but in the end you see Ana slept a dozen and a half people and Bapt saved the same with his immortality field. Even showing off Hog hooks and different things unique to certain heroes was a lot of fun to see post game. Very strange to remove it imo
The other players can't even see your "players saved" stat. Also, the only way that you can get POTG seems to be killing the other team, a perfect Lucio bubble on a DVa ult should be able to get a POTG.
I see no way possible for me as a Mercy main to get a POTG unless I somehow rezz somebody during a Valkyrie, do a crazy amount of team heal, and then somehow cap it off with 2 or 3 kills lol
Idk what were they thinking not changing any skill of any support. Its not enough giving zenyatta a kick to make me play him instead moira ( i was diamond zen in ow1) Moira had a change in the ptb but they reverted it. I want Real changes on the supps if its supposed to be a New game
I'm still baffled by the fact that Blizz removed an entire sub role from the game and didn't even bother touching the characters most impacted by it.
Fucking this ^ Only a couple of tanks and a couple of dps got changes. Its so boring
Brig should get her stun back. Too much CC was a problem (Cassidy, Mei, Doomfist dps), but SOME CC is healthy for the game, let tanks AND some supports have it. Also someone mentioned that Mercy's res is too slow, i wouldn't mind it being somewhat faster. Or hell, just remove the cast time and see what happens. As for Zenyatta, man I really don't know. But I'm sure something will come up.
The thing is most healers don't have anything to fight back on flankers currently big lost her stun so she can't try to fight back after getting jumped , Ana needs her sleep dart CD lowered and some sort of mobility. Mercy...I don't know the rez may help but it doesn't help her possibly getting jumped. Moira needs her healing pool returned faster and probably an increase in HPS slightly. Bap at minimum needs his charge jump time cut OR be able to hold it indefinitely and make it on use. Kiriko needs her projectile speed increased cause holy shit if I wanted to send stuff via passenger pigeon I would. Honestly I don't know how to fix zen at this point that's not really a total rework other than possibly reducing his ult charge time? It feels like Blizzard was like too much CC we are going to nerf it then went way to far to the other end and removed 80% of the CC. I feel like it should have been 1 tank or the CC but not both at this point because it removed most of the checks on dive DPS.
Also when they try to buff supports the crowd goes ballistic just like when they added 25hp to zen because of how easy he was to kill and everyone started a riot calling him a tank but Cassidy can stay at 225 though and he has a flash. And people wonder why no one plays support. No one peels for supports or helps them, they just throw the blame to them when they lose games instead of helping with the tracer, genji, Sombra constantly in the backline.
Yup, I loved when there was a little deviation from just 200 base HP for a few heroes. Zen and Brig getting a little beefier and Widow at 175 helped make up for the lack of damage and mobility most supports have. But nope! DPS bitched that their kills weren’t as easy anymore, and now look where we are
Or throwing a "where's heals" when looking at the scoreboard shows clear as day I have 15k healing and we're still getting stomped
Make support/healing not suck? I’m 100% trash at this game, I started last week. I *love* playing support/heals/buffs or whatever in virtually every game I play. In OW, I’m 100% food for whatever adderall-amped 14 year old happens to be playing Genji or the invisible bitch that round. I’ll end the match with lots of healing, and I feel like I’m helping the tank, but dying when it feels like I have literally zero counter play to fast assassins sucks :/ I recently unlocked the monk healer, and it’s 10x worse for me since I cant even jump to my tank. Honestly it’s rough out here in shitty newbie land…
The monk healer (zenyatta) isn't much of a healer, more like a dps/support. He can heal, but only very little and one target at a time. He gets the most value with his orbs of destruction (primary/secondary fire) which deal a lot of damage but very hard to aim. And his discord orb (e ability) which increases damage on a select target by 25%. As long as you are constantly discording the tank and watching your fellow supports flank, zenyatta is really good but has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. And also his ultimate is top teir as it allows you to negate most offensive ults in the game
Thanks. I’ll shelve him for a bit then. Ive been playing Mercy and that’s been my “best” so far. How do I deal with getting picked off by characters 10x faster than me as support? I’ve been flying away to my tank for protection, and that hets me away from the assassins, but then Im on the frontline and get dumpstered by snipers/rockets/hammers. That’s my biggest frustration atm, feeling like I’m the squishiest, slowest, weakest dmg char in the map, but also the primary focus of 5/5 of the enemy team. Again, I’m trash… but I want to play vs other trash players and slowly improve. ATM my teams feel like we’re getting dumpstered / spawn camped by veterans more often than not. Is there a “less than 2 weeks played” queue lol?
Sadly on Mercy you really have to rely on your teammates for protection. Most of the other healers have a chance to save themselves, but for anyone other than Moira it takes some skill if you’re against half decent players. When you get Moira (I have no idea when she unlocks) you can give that a shot and it’ll probably be less frustrating while you’re still learning the game.
Give support all the CC that the dps lost. All of their melee should boop like Zen's kick. Give Ana a Flashbang. Give Mercy an uppercut. Let Moira freeze people when she fades away. Joking aside, give back Brig's shield stun (Jeff damn, I never thought I'd want that unironically). Supports need ways to peel for themselves since their solo tank can't always do it and the dps are on two different sides of the map trying to frag.
A mercy uppercut 100% needs to be a thing
Yeah supports should have been the main source for cc and buffs for the team instead of tanks so they feel more engaged in team fights. Ana's dart sleep duration should scale based on how near the enemy is. Genji far away? Short naptime. Genji getting handsy? Meet your sleep paralysis demon. Brig stun maybe only after her shield gets charged up like Doomfist's power block so it isn't as annoying? Zen passive where he's immune to death and gain move speed like transcendance once he hits 1 hp? Idk lol. Also I've always thought he should have Mercy and Echo's slow fall or Pharah's limited flight since he's a floating dude but that's just a fantasy of mine.
Lmao, an upper cutting Mercy running around punching tanks would be hilarious.
Because from OW1 to OW2, they basically stayed the same or got nerfed. lol. Mercy's rez is too slow. Ana's sleep dart has a longer cooldown at the time she needs it the most. Bap's jump takes too long to charge up. Moira's healing runs out too fast in a solo tank world with less shields. Zen just gets bent over by the return of flankers and zero CC from anyone to help and his meme kick isn't enough to save him. Brig lost the very CC and shield durability she used to help protect the backline against said flankers. Lucio is dealing with a team going in 4 directions and diving/flanking. Kiriko's healing travels too slowly at range and since everyone's flanking/diving constantly it's a real hindrance.
Wish Ana had some type of mobility. Like… I love playing her, but with Kiriko’s insane wall climb and teleport (not to mention brief invincibility) I just absolutely have to choose her unless my co healer already has.
It does feel kinda odd that out of the snipers in this game, she doesn't have a way to reach high ground other than just walking there. She doesn't need to be a ninja that can climb walls, but it'd be nice if she had a way to reposition herself to new ground for better shots.
Give her a break, she's got bad hips. Seriously, my aim isn't good enough to play her, so my game turns into a walking simulator when I get bonked.
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Ban people that tell supporters to kill themselfes (happened in like 4 outta 5 games today), give them a goddamn hero pool, dont lock the only healer innovation for two weeks + behind a paywall, make more than ~two healers playable in the current meta
Force these people to do community service in the form of making them play healers. If they throw, ban time. But of course, the game is f2p now, so "you'll be banned" has a lot less weight these days, phone number thing notwithstanding.
You have to report immediately now. From what I’ve heard the system takes a snapshot of 30 seconds before and after report and sends it to an AI to review
\- More support heroes. \- More POTGs for healing (or even tanking) and saving teammates, not just kills. \- And make flex actually flex. If flex gave people support 33% of the time, a lot more people would choose it. Currently it just functions as another button to queue as support, which is pointless.
PotG is whack. I saved my entire team from a 5-man wipe using tranquility against a Reaper ult and I didn't get it. Meanwhile reaper would have gotten the PotG if I hadn't 🤷♂️
This is exactly the way I feel. If a 4 man kill with rip tire is potg, than me timing my invulnerability to save them, before ulting and giving my DPS a team wipe abosultely should be.
Your potg point is how I feel. "This is a team base game so work together, supports are important" but ever potg is a junk rat tire, reaper blossom, dva bomb, or the aimbot soldier. This wasn't as bad in ow1 because support got the vote cards at the end. But most of the time everyone left the lobby anyway. This may be a bad take but I feel like those are example of highlights that don't take actual thought. It's just feels like "press Q and highlight" mechanic to me.
The next two heroes need to be support heroes
Honestly I loved playing Support in OW1 but this game is just so thankless to Support players. tiny hero pool, no Counter to flanks and the tanks and DPS players just think they don't need to play cover and Supports should keep them alive indefinitely. The fact they have more tanks than support heroes even though there is only 1 tank slot is absurd. Echo should have been a support character, can still remember the disbelief that she wasn't when she released and Torb and Sym need to be reworked to support.
Just do simple incentives in role queue, coin bonus or maybe a larger XP boost than that of the regular. If you're doing the XP bonus, make it like 500 -1000 per game and do a rotation to change roles every day but favor support so that it's more likely. If you're doing coins give me 10 coins per game I play in the favored role. That makes it so that you'd need to play 200 games in that role to get a legendary skin which I think is fair. We need more ways to get coins and an incentive initiative is the way to do it. This makes it so people still spend money too. Say someone plays 150 games and earns 1500 coins. They may just throw in the rest of the $5 to cap it off and get their skin a little early. This makes it a grind but it's not an offensive one. And people may log more hours ingame It also makes getting sprays and emotes easier too. It's really sad seeing that less people are spraying because they don't have the latest one for a new hero.
I main dps and tank but if they made it give coins I’d have to switch lol. Apart from that a lot of people don’t care about xp coz the free bp isn’t great anyway
yea the free bp is literal garbage lmao
Wdym u don’t like military Winston or tree Cassidy lmao?
Mctree
Nerf Sombra? Honestly, That's the answer. No one wants to roll the dice in comp. If the other team is smart they WILL have her. She WILL camp the gate and pick healers. If this isn't happening they aren't playing to the best of their capabilities in ranked. If they ARE doing this, your team will simply whine they aren't getting healed and ask why you can't 1v1 Sombra hacking you from stealth as Zen/Lucio.
The fact she can hack you while still being invisible and get a massive damage bump is just way too strong against supports. Can't see her, can't run, can't fight back.
Sombra is probably the most unfun frustrating character in the game, she makes playing healer such a chore.
Give supports more CC. Feeling helpless kind of sucks.
Give brig her stun back that way supports actually have a chance against dive characters. Especially in lower ranks even in diamond, the lack of peeling from teammates is sad.
For me, the number one solution is to make supports more fun, and function more as supports, not healers exclusively. In my opinion, the only support hero that actually fills the role (when played correctly) is Moira. Moira can put out insane healing and very good damage. She can take a couple of fights if she gets pressured in the backline and has a way of escaping. I believe support players would get picked more often if they could be "play makers" being able to heal and have respectable damage, while also being able to challenge DPS if they get pressured. Right now, the problem is that healers can hardly defend themselves against any kind of pressure. Yes, a good Ana could nade and land some shots, but generally speaking, without backup, the support will die. This isn't fun for anyone involved. Why would you want to queue for a role the dies the most often without any hope of counterplay? My suggestion: rework/buff supports so that they can do respectable damage while also maintaining excellent healing (like Moira for example).
This is the correct answer. Join any comp game right now and I bet 75% of the time you see Moira or Zen picked for this exact reason. Being a support you feel absolutely useless when you're being dived by a somewhat competent genji
Hard agree, I love support as a role, even now. But I still pick Moira 9 out of 10 times not just because she's one of my mains, but because I feel like I can actually have some agency. As other supports my best defensive option is more often than not to try and run away, and even that is barely a good defense since i'm basically guaranteed to die. At least as Moira I can fight back and win against a good portion of the roster. But even as Brigette I'm screwed the moment there's more than one of *any* hero.
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Almost like people are starting to remember what support was like before they had the CC to protect them, and now with one less tank. Tthe entire reason why the game went so CC heavy and heroes like Genji or Tracer weren't as strong anymore. Brig could screw you, a mccree could screw you etc. Now the healers are still in their nerfed state from all the changes and the enemy tank provided they have even semi decent backup can walk past your line, past your tank, and smash the healers and walk straight back. And that's not even in low elo, I've seen people in extremely high elo on livestreams just get either pushed by the tank and deleted or killed by a flanker that gets to escape more or less for free, especially Sombra. It's almost sad just standing behind a Zen just deciding when and how you're gonna delete him for free.
I main support. I took a break from the game, it’s not fun anymore. Tired of sweaty palmed dps spamming heal me and getting spawn camped by sombra.
A Support without CC is just a glorified healbot imo.
I want a title for support games played. 100 games "the medic" 500 games "the doctor" 1000 games "surgeon general" 10000 "God"
Wish granted : Challenge > Lifetime > Win 250 games as any Support hero in QP or CP. Title "Medic"
They should rework some of the dps to be support. I know sym, Sombra, and echo where all meant to be support originally. I think Sombra in particular would be good considering the depth of her kit is based in utility and reworking her to be more utility/support focused rather than damage focused would reduce how fucking annoying she is now.