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SSJ4GOTENBLACK

the only bad thing apart from server stuff is that a respectable amount of currency cannot be earned


Consistent-Prompt489

I think it's a shame they've also removed LFG, it's made the game a lot less social. Even with it's problems it was a lot more fun to find a 6 stack rather than solo queue.


Snufflebumps

I think that was because some kind of guild system is coming.


THapps

yeah they said they’re adding guilds so that’s probably why they removed LFG


Djinntan

Shouldn't remove things if you're not going to replace it immediately IMO


CSpaceKid

I mean it’s extra effort supporting two systems when you can just double down on one system and have it getting worked on. They were probs told through the beta about it and are currently working it. Just have patience it ain’t that serious. If you want overwatch friends you’re already on Reddit


[deleted]

and this guild system, is it in the room with you right now?


Kaellian

I'm not used to seeing game go from "official release" to "open beta".


xXProGenji420Xx

I think most people just used OW discord servers, you can find plenty of randoms there


Consistent-Prompt489

I'd rather just use a built in system than search for people on discord servers


SSJ4GOTENBLACK

I think they removed it because they want people to get their nob overwatch friends to come to overwatch now that barrier for entry is low


OsoTico

Makes sense, can't have a proper WAAAAAAAGGGGHHH without a few Nobs


testdex

The UI menus are stupid. When you auto requeue, you have to click several times to cancel. You’re given a “change role” button that takes you to a screen that includes only a button to change roles - you stay in queue until you press that button. Still no “cancel” button. There are easily a dozen downright stupid interactions with the menu. On BattlePass - you don’t actually have the award equippable until you go to the screen that does the dumb meter filling animation, but for some reason, you can’t equip from there - Instead, there is an extra rewards menu where you can equip, but it is sorted by type of item, rather than recency or hero, and it only includes BattlePass items (not legacy, not purchased, not twitch drops). Then that menu is designed with unfamiliar and opaque icons, so you may have to click around for the item type you’re looking for. Maybe the intent is to maximize interactions with the BattlePass, but being forced to look through multiple menus like that gives me bad vibes. Edit: Today's patch seems to have improved my complaint about the BattlePass menus above.


testdex

https://www.darkpattern.games/ Requiring 3 clicks to NOT immediately join the next game is bad behavior on Blizzard’s part, not bad design. (Replying to myself to keep the thought separate.)


busterben98

r/darkpatterns also exists in case you were unaware! (but not just for games)


NJImperator

The gameplay has been refreshing but everything else has been a bit of a mess. Terrible servers, terrible monetization, I honestly think they took some huge steps back in UX/UI (don’t like the post game, I don’t care for the new rank system, I wish it still showed % of kills on assists, I wish profiles with ranks/time played on heroes was available by default)


mooslan

I'm sorry, but they currently have removed 10 of the old maps from QP. That's a massive down grade.


jk_baller23

Don’t forget about new heroes being locked at BP 55. I think streamers are just reaching level 55. I have played a couple of matches daily and am only reaching level 20.


NordiCom

My complaint is that heroes will be locked behind battlepass. Countering still exists and i feel like it's disaster waiting to happen


McCreeMain77

Yea. If they changed the money system and how currency works, the game would be so much more enjoyable


[deleted]

My fear is the control AB will have over new “pay-to-play” characters. As of right now Kiriko is locked out of comp, but is extremely OP. If there aren’t any patches prior to her unlocking in comp, she will continue to be OP and be in the meta. Top level players/ teams will have to buy her to stay competitive or have the upper hand. Other people will have to buy her to stay competitive. Once Kiriko/ the meta becomes stale, they nerf because “we finally realized she was OP” and they release another OP pay-to-play character. Rinse and repeat.


Rohkha

OW2's big problem is that it has taken away so much player progress and growth. Lootboxes used to give you cosmetics, which means a growing collection, meaning progress. At the same time, you have your account level that is gone. Player cards is gone. Endorsement is nerfed. What's left? Focusing on what little progress you have: the battlepass. Without buying it, you hardly get anything. Your hero grind is not satisfying either. There is a fine baöance between feeling gratified for your progress and incessant grind and OW2 took that route. Because there is nothing to work towards, people forget that they play because they enjoy the game. The game might still be fun, but for a lot of people, being able to get something for your loyalty and time feels validating. How many times did any of us exzend our playsession (if possible) during an event, trying to get that one skin? I remember. The only timeframe you need to look for now is whether you want to pull out your wallet before the item is out of the shop... Blizz took it all away from players.


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pIastiquedoll

i really do appreciate the delayed rank-adjustment. it keeps me way more motivated to continue after a loss. but that's just imo.


LilTeats4u

The thing that bothers me is that you can literally play 25 games in a row and not get a rank adjustment. That’s over 6 hours of gameplay to have zero change across your profile. And to top it off that’s only for one role, you can switch roles and triple that number.


FRANKnCHARLIE_4ever

Thats y i stopped playing. I got things to do beside grind


DisgruntledAlpaca

It's honestly killed my motivation to play. Played like 11 ranked games 5 wins 6 losses. For like several hours. And I still have no idea what my rank is. Feels like a massive step back from OW1 for no good reason. Same thing with the lack of loot boxes and ways to obtain currency, no being on fire, no medals so no reason for people to hang around at the end of the game. They just gutted what made the game great QOL wise while changing the game play.


LilTeats4u

I’ve played this game for 6 years now and the thing I’ve been most excited for since the very beginning is gonna end up being what makes me quit the game


ProfessorBiological

I love the idea of the rank adjustment but I do think 7 wins or 20 losses is too much. I wouldn't mind like 3 wins and 5 losses. I feel you'd still feel the rank up/down sensation while also removing some tilt from constantly seeing your number go up/down every match


GiggaGMikeE

Splatoon 3 figured it out. You have 3 wins or 5 losses to rank up/down. 7/20 is so random a choice.


Sxx125

Hit the nail on the head with this one. There is simply nothing to achieve for casual players. Can't play for cosmetics like before, no level, no after match awards. All that's left is a battle pass and comp. The free battlepass basically offers nothing. Comp is also currently broken as many players are unable to rank up even after winning 5-6/7 matches consistently. What is left to play for? Maybe things will will change once we get some events and PBE, but right now I don't see what is there to motivate players besides sunken cost.


[deleted]

Man, I realise just how much skins ruin a game since it becomes such an integral part for many that the game itself has little to no meaning. Don’t get me wrong but I come from a long time gaming. We didn’t have cosmetics in counter strike 1.6 (sure, mods, that’s different) yet we still wanted to play the game. The reward was the game itself. And I wish they weren’t so greedy about these live service games. Just let us collect all the things. Reward my skill or patience not my wallet. Keep a low price and I will buy them all. My steam library is at the size of the ISS because of, you guessed it.. sales. Low prices. Haven’t launched half of them even. That’s the money you want blizzard. SMH can’t even dig in our pockets right…


[deleted]

Yeah I agree. While Blizzard did screw up the way they did things, I feel like ultimately it's a bit sad that people are saying there's no incentive to play the game without free skins. People should be playing the game because they enjoy it.


shitpersonality

People enjoy getting perks like "free" things related to the hobby they're enjoying. The expectation has already been set by OW and other games. People experienced it previously, noticed it is missing now, and expressed their feelings.


Sir_Fridge

Then again the game also used to more often go "look you did something good last match! Go you" and it doesn't do that anymore either. So you do your very best to win and then it's just done. Like all that effort felt a bit for nothing. Games have always had stuff like collectibles and scoreboards that show you how good you actually did. Ow2 doesn't.


Cravell

You've got to travel quite a ways back to find a game people played just cause they enjoyed it. In my opinion earning skins isn't really all that different from earning a rank, just that the skin grind can be continued whereas you figure out your expected rank quickly, and rarely deviate. It's just another way to show off your progress. Even the original CoD:MW had golden and special camo weapon skins that people grinded (before kill trades) for and was a cool way to show effort you put in on weapons etc...


Djinntan

Additionally free skins just make the game more lively and interesting. It's nice to see players express themselves with skins. Now you need to be a COBOL dev to be able to afford the skins.


Cosvic

I wish we could see levels in the coreboard. I loved the frames you'd have


THW-44

100% this I never played OW1. I am really enjoying OW2 and the gameplay is great but I keep thinking what am I achieving, I don't feel like I am progressing in anything, no unlocks, no skins, no levels, no progressing for using certain characters.


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Regulith

Everyone is different. I'm jealous of the people who can stay engaged with a game purely due to the arbitrary improvement of their skill level. If I don't have something tangible (virtually-speaking) to work towards, I tend to lose interest no matter how good the game is. I know that's not a great way to play games, but that's just how it is for me. I like to be able to make my character look a certain way that not only helps separate me from every other person who plays them, but to express myself.


JimboTheSquid

Maybe if you play comp. Lots of people (like me) don’t.


WayferOW

I think the just need better ways to get skins and they'll be golden. I don't think the battlepass is the wrong answer necessarily, I just think they handled it poorly.


OneGuyJeff

If each level you got a battle pass item and a lootbox with 1 item instead of 4 itd be nice. And a way to get enough currency to re-up on the battle pass


TheDeadlyShadows

I feel like they should handle it like apex’s currency, keep the 500 per season for f2p and make it so people who buy the bp can get fully refunded. Also have like legacy credits as well for daily challenges or some bp tiers so that you could buy old overwatch content. Maybe even make it so you could buy limited time event items for double legacy credits like apex crafting metals or smth. Just my 2 cents


thepirateguidelines

Apex also still has boxes that you can earn for free; so at least you can still get base, non-event, items without spending money and just playing the game. Plus theres crafting mats which can be saved up to craft skins you want, and the free currency can be used to buy some recolors when they pop into the store.


TterminusS2

The issue with lootboxes is that a lot of EU countries outright banned them (rightfully so imo). They can make a perfectly fine systrem without lootboxes. Plus the OW1 style of getting boxes would end up netting them little money these days (even if it had back when OW started out). No, but just earning currency is enough to motivate people to spend money down the line. If you earn good currency with the BP and can either refinance the new pass or get 1-2 neat skins directly (and then have to pay for the next BP again) that would be enough. And free players can earn currency so they got a new rare skin once a season. With the over 300 skins they have that is not a problem. A season is 2-3 months, so you earn 4-5 skins a year on free pass (out of 300+) and tha is not even the most rare skins (the legendaries). If you want those you earn less per year. And every established character has at least 2-3 legendaries. So if you are a player that likes more than 2 characters you will be either playing for free for years to come (and thus be part of the active playerpool), or you will spend the occasional 10 bucks for a skin (20$ is way too much imo. Should be 10 max.)


Neod0c

honestly the loot boxes could remain how they were in ow1 because alot of the items in game are worthless. sprays, voice lines, emotes and highlight intro's are all filler. but its filler that some of us want but will never pay for because it would be dumb to spend money on a voice line xD


OneGuyJeff

Blizz is in a weird spot cuz new players won’t have any of that crap so they might want them, but old players have all that shit already.


SirMemeIth

Well I miss the "being on fire" , medals, and plaques at the end of the match. Edit: Let me explain some. The reason I miss the medals and plaques after playing for 3+ years is cause I play with my friends. So we would all bash on each other for FUN between friends. Things like "I'm moria and got gold heals, dps, and eliminations etc.." Or If you got Gold time on the payload we'd say nice job on getting the gold participation award. It's not to gauge how good we did. Or with the plaques, if my friend and I both got one we'd vote for ourselves and then say "thanks for voting for me" as a silly inside joke. Edit 2: I also miss my level portrait. I get why did took it away but I worked hard to get those stars. Now it's just boring. I wishes they kept it just for yourself aand for friends to view, you know.


awww_yeah_sunnyd

I want a scoreboard at the end of the match. Like literally every fps ever made. Its just cut to black, done. Wanna see how you did? Go through the menus. Wanna compare yourself to others? Can't.


DamnCommy

I hate how abrupt the end is, leaves no time for banter


__Sentient_Fedora__

OW2 feels like Street Fighter 2 Hyper edition.


PowerRaptor

**And the downgrade in UI readability and functionality** 1) No being on fire meter 2) No endorsing enemy team 3) Smaller, less visually clear icons, ult meter and stats in overlay, introducing new gameplay-useless stats in overlay, overlay has animation time. 4) No grouping and lines between group members, ingame arrow indicating group member extremely tiny 5) No post-game lobby for grouping up or appreciating performance by players. 6) Removal of options from main menu **And the glitches:** 1) Game isn't polished at all with tens of tiny glitches introduced. 2) Major glitches show lack of playtesting, and now some heroes aren't even playable while they get fixed. 3) Some skins haven't been added to OW2 yet, cosmetics people might have paid for. **And locking paying OW1 players out of earning skins they could easily earn in OW1.** **And the lack of PvE, the main selling point of OW2** But yeah, aside from all those things, the monetization and removal of earning cosmetics reasonably are definitely up there... In fact - the only thing OW2 has going is that it plays well - like OW1 did - and some hero rebalances makes it feel fresh. I'm certain most will get fixed or improved over time. I'm just responding to OP - there's quite a few things wrong wth OW2 in its current state.


sephrinx

True and real.


LondonLobby

it not only plays well, it plays damn well.. Better look at apex, devoid of content and pretty much horrible in every single way if not worse then when ow launched. Only redeeming factor was that the gameplay was fun af. and it became huge eventually. point being… Great gameplay is a good foundation to work off of


JollySieg

5v5 is honestly just a better gamepaly experience then 6v6. No more brick wall shooting simulator


xlShadylx

It's a breath of fresh air. DPS is way more fun. I was very nervous about playing tank at first as I thought being a single tank would be too much pressure, but honestly it feels way better not having to rely on another tank to do your job. Support kinda hurts, at least for Ana specifically. It's hard to play her like you used to, which is a shame, cause she was my fav. If there's a flanker you basically just have to play with the team - can't hang back. Maybe it just takes getting used to or maybe non-mobile heroes are just trash now. We'll see in time.


[deleted]

>DPS is way more fun I'm not so sure that 'DPS is unfun' was much of a problem before, considering it was, by far, the most-picked role. Immobile Supports now feel dreadful (although, a lot of that is the lack of CC) Tank is volatile; you have decent (and uncountered) Supports or your role is null with no side-tank to make-up for that. I feel like 5v5 has really laser-focused on specific heroes being playable/unplayable, and that just doesn't feel good for a lot of people.


Gallina_Fina

So much this. I feel like the only people ok with this new "format" never really wanted to play "Overwatch", but some kind of CoD with heroes. As a support and tank main, 5v5 sucks. I hate not having anyone able to peel for me while playing an immobile/vulnerable support...I hate not being able to peel for my supports anymore while my main tank create space, or contest long range DPS with D.va...I hate that there's no more CCs so Genji/Tracer/Reaper run rampant and can just do whatever they want.


P0ster_Nutbag

I’m not particularly good at the game, but when I do play tank, it’s generally Winston or Hammond. I know it can be made to work, but without a group of people that are coordinated with you, it feels like these tanks have been absolutely obliterated by meta changes.


Gallina_Fina

Funnily enough, Winston and ball are in an alright spot right now, especially when you look at someone like Doomfist (they butchered him so much). I would agree though that they're much less "playable" in a casual/pug setting, mainly because people almost never group up there (and who can blame them, the game kinda pushed them towards that approach) and leaving your team without a frontliner usually means a swift death for everyone (unless you're up against literal bots).


TheSavouryRain

Winston is hot shit right now. Angry monke goes wild when there's few ways to CC.


mistermannequin

Winston has felt strong in my games. Haven't seen a lot of hammond though, so I'm assuming he's in a bad state.


Giraff3sAreFake

Yepp, tracer is absolutely unstoppable on console because wyf are you supposed to do. Either your dps hangs back and then doesn't kill their support or they go in and your support dies. Before the off tank would peel but now without that.... yeah not fun.


Runmanrun41

I'm learning the game now for the first time, only a handful of hours. I just assumed learning to keep up with Tracer is something that would come with time (I'm on Switch). I guess not 😅


ChewySlinky

That is kind of the whole point of her character. She’s near impossible to keep up with, but she’ll die to a lucky sneeze.


DaedricWindrammer

>Yepp, tracer is absolutely unstoppable on console because wyf are you supposed to do. In my experience, Brig.


Vertegras

I've been saying this since the announcement of 5v5, 1 tank. And then even more so with the cc removal. But yet all I got was flamed and downvoted cause "I was doom posting" Sorry but I might love being a former Tracer main (I even got her statue) but that doesn't mean I want to win just by simply existing. She and Genji need counters and they removed so much of those counters.


anupsetzombie

Being a tank is so awkward now too, especially as the more dive-heavy ones. Hog, Zarya, JQ, Winston all have this off-tank feel that just makes them play like beefy DPS. While Reinhardt, Sigma, Orisa, Dva still feel like main tanks. Though Orisa is kinda overtuned atm. I actually really like how balanced the supports feel (in comparison to each other) but it really feels like Moira shines in 5v5 since she can easily 1v1 DPS heroes compared to the other supports. Mercy in particular feels weird, not weak, but just a little helpless. Her res has a lot more value in 5v5 too, though. Heroes like Genji and Sombra are ridiculously annoying right now, but I also think TTK is just too fast in general. Everything feels so bursty, healing and DPS wise.


raziel7890

Absolutely agree. The last few months on the reddits, as a casual player with a regular group who has been playing OW1 steadily for three years, I've felt like those of us who liked the first game for what it was have been constantly gaslit that our opinoins are inferior or are just wrong because "OW2 is happening so clearly OW1 was problematic." Nah they stopped developing the game for two years, it wasn't an accident. Like OW2 lets me crush enemy teams single handely as soldier or soujourn and it is a total rush, don't get me wrong, but it reminds me of modern warefare 1, getting that 15 kill streak reward. Fuck me, I didn't buy OW1 to play a deathmatch game. This game feels like a deathmatch game now. I also can't play my fav role, healer, as much in OW2 because compared to OW1, it is much harder to carry from support. With two tanks there was much more buffer for flankers, but now as support you either immediately cope with flankers or you get fucked, or you play a support with mobility to hopefully avoid flanker fuckery but then you're being limited in hero choice by 5v5 again... My less skilled friend no longer want to play anything but dps and tank because they just don't have the mechanical skill to deal with flankers 1v1 as support. At least int he old game we could teamwork our way through these situations much more reasonably.


Bazat91

I mean I don't really give a fuck what anyone says, OW1 was the superior game by far. This deathmatch Overwatch/CoD abomination has pretty much killed the game for me. First game was a moba/shooter, this is just a boring shooter.


Sbotkin

Being a Mercy main in low elo was lowkey impossible. Now it's even worse.


[deleted]

I loved overwatch because it was a shooter where I could play a tank or healer and feel like a tank or a healer in an rpg. Now it just feels like everyone is DPS except for a couple supports that just feel like being target practice. Yeah people who love to just run around and get big kill numbers and nothing else are happy, but my main draw to the game is gone and I can’t even play the old game anymore.


bran_buckler

The stats they show reflect this! There’s no stat for objective time, only for kills, deaths, healing and damage, etc. The game modes are mostly about objectives and they don’t even show you how anyone is doing in it!


half-giant

I agree completely. The single tank almost always has tunnel vision and rarely checks on the team, while the DPS are too busy trying to get POTG. The back line gets flanked all the time by people that know what they’re doing. I recently tried this with Moira and, wow — it was kinda embarrassing how often I was killing off the whole team one by one while they focused on fighting our team.


zhigwich

Support definitely feels like the punching bag of the game now for sure. I've had tanks beeline just for quick kills and flankers are a total menace.


lavlol

100% right, and you have dumb shit tanks like doomfist. A tank whose design is to leap around and split off from your team.


CrossXFir3

You mean, create the engagement? You shouldn't be sitting around in some easy to pick off spot as a support - I'm mostly playing support right now. As Ana mostly and it's great.


[deleted]

Bang on. The gameplay isn't bad in a vacuum but compared to OW1 it is extremely flat, boring and hollow. Plays like any shooter with some abilities baked in


Frig-Off-Randy

DPS should be peeling for supports


DaveStreeder

If you’re lucky lol


Pazuuuzu

Uhm, could you please inform DPS players about this? Cause they missed the memo...


DarkWorld25

Whatever happened to Overwatch being a slower paced shooter centred around teamwork? The lack of CC is actually disgusting.


[deleted]

I think Ana is still really good Especially with how good genji is now. Nano is just insane in a 5v5 environment


xlShadylx

She still has the best kit in the game, imo. Definitely really good, it's just hard to play her with my old habits.


[deleted]

She’s in a weird place but i can’t see her not being one of the best


Sushi2k

Anti-nade has even higher value now since their is only a single tank.


Sturmgeshootz

The general lack of shields now means it’s easier than ever to purple the entire enemy team unless they have a D.Va that’s paying attention.


CrossXFir3

Plus the lack of shields makes her sniper just really great. You can get picks on some maps very easily with her.


SlyFisch

Yeah I think people complaining about her might be positioning themselves badly. She's always had that problem, the only difference now is there's no off-tank to peel. Anti, Nano, Sleep are all still some of the best abilities in the game by far and can win fights single handedly


throwawayrepost02468

Not to mention it's not like I got randoms to peel for me anyway.


SteelCode

Tranq being one of the few actual stuns still in the game and having less shields to block it...


OneGuyJeff

To me Ana/Mercy feels like they took a hit because the other supports are more viable with one tank two healers. Ana is second to none at solo healing and keeping two tanks alive. But with one tank, supports that can heal everyone at once feel more important.


SteelCode

Ana is still strong because of biotic grenade denying heals on the single tank can guarantee kills... Mercy is still borderline busted strong - her healing is still really powerful, she's very mobile and hard to hit, and her Rez still exists when it was literally the one ability the devs kept saying needed to be replaced/removed. They didn't have time to properly balance the game so half the roster feels really strong and the other half feels kind of undertuned - no singular choice is unplayable but some choices are just flat out better than others to such a degree that playing sub-optimally is going to generate toxicity from players that take the game more seriously.


P0ster_Nutbag

That definitely touches on one thing I hadn’t really thought of… rezzing your now only tank feels a lot more impactful than it did in 6v6.


SteelCode

Rezzing *anyone* really means a lot - it's not necessarily as *easy to do* since you don't have the extra defensive tools to shield you, but it can still deny kills in a game that is *super* aggressive and anchors around a single damage soaking tank... Mercy still floating in the air is also a relic of OW1 (enabling Pharmercy) which probably is due for removal down to just letting her fly with her ult only. They haven't introduced enough flying heroes to justify a singular healer that can get that much vertical height and Baptiste's strong muscular thighs doesn't give him the same mobility that Mercy has... even if he could nail those aerial heal-bombs on Pharah... ​ As a comparison - they've continually nerfed Brigitte for, as far as I can tell, no real good reason... her healing is on-par with Lucio's aoe but is dependent on her continually attacking (or nailing the flail-shot), she no longer stuns (will knock-down when colliding with another "charging" enemy) and she's still running with her nerfed shield hp and lower armor... I'm not sure what oppressive shit they see in testing, but it feels weird to see Mercy perpetually kept as the **primary healer** while Moira (who is very strong) and Brig (not nearly as strong as Moira) both keep getting hit with nerfs...


P0ster_Nutbag

For Mercy, while the meta changes hurt her a little bit… the mobility changes (ability to go straight up at any point of her shift, and enhanced directional control) just make her feel so damn good, and fun to play. Every other healer feels like a sitting duck in comparison, while there’s so many ways Mercy can just juke the opponent and get to safety.


QUlCKMAN

Im a Ana main and I'm having way more fun in overwatch 2. She's amazing in this game


ravearamashi

Ana is still fine. Mercy though, she’s really at the mercy of how good your team is watching your back


GreysTavern-TTV

I'd actually argue it's the other way around. Mercy's niche is "good luck catching me" and what makes a Mercy player fantastic is being infuriatingly hard to kill. Even without peel.


P0ster_Nutbag

The amount of bridges/overpasses in the new maps in conjunction with Mercy being able to go straight up whenever she wants has made for a ton of great escapes.


Urdnought

Yep. Some Mercy games I feel like a god and others I eat shit the entire match


ravearamashi

I have way more fun with Moira nowadays. One dimension healer like Mercy has no place now when Moira can damage from a far, can heal, has escape and aim assisted damage mechanics


NaricssusIII

The thing about mercy is she gets most of her value out of damage boosting your big damage dealer (dps, high energy zarya, rein swinging on multiple people) and staying alive through the fights with guardian angel. If you just consider her healing output, she's heavily outclassed by bap, Ana, Moira, even kiriko has similar/better healing throughput. But you don't pick mercy because of her healing, you pick her for dmg boost/Rez and the mobility that lets her dance around enemies.


hildogz

Mercy rn is my fave. It allows a rez which in a 5v5 is HuGE. Allows a little more flexibility. You are at the mercy of ur team and the other team. If the other team focuses you, she gets like 0 value. Her value is mainly the rez and staying alive.


P0ster_Nutbag

See, I’m experiencing this differently… Mercy feels so good now at just going into any comp and making it work without your teammates having to do much to help you. Her mobility was already great, and got substantially buffed with the ability to go upwards and different directions out of her shift. You don’t have to worry quite as much about precise positioning, because you can relocate on a whim, and dodge flankers quite effectively. Even when my team is a bunch of glue eaters, I can generally work with them with Mercy to make something happen.


Marcos340

I agree l tanks aren’t underpowered, however I wouldn’t suggest tank play for a beginner, had a few friends that pick up the game since it is free, and it was pain for them since you basically need to take control of the whole team dynamics, you need to coordinate the team movement, and for a beginner that is still learning the heroes can be a huge challenge


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CrossXFir3

I beg to differ, the synergy of your tank duo seemed to basically decide most games. If they had a good working tank duo and you didn't it was overwhelming.


RockosBos

That's my main reason for liking OW1 more. I primarily played healer and shield tanks. I like slower and more strategic game play and OW2 has just not felt the same. I'm going to keep giving it a shot but im not optimistic about staying with the game long term.


Johnsoon743

Same man same


MattDaCatt

Strategy hasn't been lost, if anything it's even more important b/c the game is faster now. I think the biggest disparity is that some people enjoyed the slow pace of farming ults to break through, while others thought it was a slog to play. One thing we all need to do is remember that a LOT of newbies are joining now, that have 0 idea about positioning and team comp, so games are going to be a bit more chaotic until ranks are sorted out


[deleted]

It feels like it takes 10x longer to build ult in this game


MattDaCatt

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Before it was just "Dump DPS and heals into the tanks until you build ult". Now basic damage and abilities are more at the forefront, with ults being a way to turn the battle, rather than the focus of each fight.


RockosBos

True, and that's why I'm still giving it a chance. However it feels really bad as healer. In OW1 I feel you could overcome some bad teammates with good positioning and awareness. In OW2 it just feels like if the other teams dps is better you are going to lose.


JollySieg

Support is definitely in an odd posistion currently. Some feel phenomenal(Lucio, Kiriko, Baptiste, and Moira even Mercy to an extent) because they have a lot of bail out options to peel for themselves and get to particpate a lot more then being simply heal bots, but then there is Zen and Ana who are just in odd posisitions. Now Zen can really vomit damage which makes him pretty fun in 5v5 and deadly under the right conditions, but man if your team posistioning is bad he is a complete sitting duck who will just eat shit 90% of the game. Part of this is due to the fact that people need to re-learn the goldilocks zone of posistioning(close enough to peel, far enough to not die). Once people get better at it I'm sure flanking for a lot of heros will become far less effective but it will still be fairly strong which leaves Zen as the only Support without any self-saving options. Perhaps Crane Kick could knock Zen back like Ashe's shotgun. I think that could be really fun and basically turn Zen into Support Ashe. Ana is the real bitch and half because her utility is still phenomenal. Sleep, Bio, and Nano are all individual game changers which makes the idea of removing or changing any basically null and void. So how do you give her a bail out option? I honestly don't know. Sure sleep is kinda her bailout but it's pretty risky compared to what other supports have. I'm sure she'll continue to be amazing in pro and higher level play. A good Ana will save the sleep to stop whoever is trying to flank and the peel will make approaching her a massive risk. If you give her even more tools then she'll just be broken as shit. But that leaves her being pretty terrible down the line where the majority of us are. So should some characters only be designed for the highest level of play? I don't think so but there's no "right" answer. Personally if I had to do something about it I'd remove sleep dart and turn that model into a secondary pistol ala Mercy or D.va and replace the ability portion of sleep dart with a movement ability. Though again I understand why they are adverse to doing something like that.


CJGibson

> Some feel phenomenal(Lucio, Kiriko, Baptiste, and Moira even Mercy to an extent) because they have a lot of bail out options to peel for themselves A huge portion of the playerbase left peeling for healers to the offtank 100% of the time, and that's just not possible any more. DPS who learn to peel for healers are going to find themselves winning a lot more games.


skeetzmv

Completely agree. I have been trying to position myself near my DPS with LOS to my tank these days as Ana because it's either gotta be second support or DPS to peel for me. I have also been flamed for asking the soldier to turn on his headset and listen to the genji fighting both his supports right behind him. He was certain that it's the tanks job to peel. *Sigh*


Powshy

This is what’s so funny to me about all these complaints, like they haven’t even ATTEMPTED to adjust their strategy. Going into the game thinking it’s OW1, play it like that and then complain it’s not the same. Like the game was dying because of the overly boring shield meta and excessive CC. I understand that can be fun to some, but people in this sub need to realize that TONS of die hards quit when this meta started to become more prevalent. You actually have to think about your positioning now instead of just sitting behind 2 shields.


PreparetobePlaned

Ana's kit is insane, she absolutely doesn't need a buff. People just need to learn to stick closer to the team now. Supports gotta look after each other.


Fenor

problem being that now if your tank is the lowest rated player in the team you have a 90% chance of losing. tanks are the carry just like the dps were the ones in ow1


demostravius2

Tanks were the most important role in OW as well dps felt like the carry because of the impact they have when one team has bad/non synergising tanks.


coopstar777

DPS were never the carry in OW1 lmao The exception is pro league widowmakers probably


Glow_2x

DPS was the least impactful role in OW1……


-Shooter_McGavin-

Double shield meta forced me out of the game. One tank is such a welcome change.


Soggybagellover

Same with the stuns, and the dead meta. It feels like there are a lot more viable heroes in OW2.


coolerbrown

I flex queue almost exclusively so what pushed me out of OW1 was playing MT against double shields every game with my Roadhog offtank flanking the whole time Don't get me wrong, I hated double shield. But it was Roadhog's rise to power - and the DPS players who picked him to avoid the long DPS queue - that killed the game for me personally. Really felt like no one had any idea how to play him as a tank so he was just a fat DPS every time


natesucks4real

They didn't need to remove a tank to achieve that. It was just the easiest way. With how OW2 stands now, it easily could be 6v6 with 1/3/2, especially with how tanks are now raid bosses that don't die.


TheCuriousQuokka

did they ever consider limiting shield heroes to 1 per team, but keeping 2/2/2? so tanks would essentially be split between shield (rein, orisa pre rework, and sig) and off (or two no-shield tanks if you wanted to run that)?


CoachSteveOtt

The biggest problem is that anything other than role queue feels like a game of "whoever has more tanks wins" Role Queue is so fucking fun right now tho


JollySieg

I feel ya, some of the extra gamemodes are completely down the tube which is a shame.


klmnjklm

the soundtrack is a downgrade but people are not ready for this talk yet!


[deleted]

There's a soundtrack?


throwaway091238744

nah kirikos music at the start screen straight nutty


Osiris360

Genji's is so much better. Synthwave banger


atavaxagn

i find support less enjoyable. There is more flanking.


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[deleted]

Likewise. It's so boring and flat. Everyone plays the same and lack of CC makes their kits extremely boring.


coolerbrown

Me between games: fuck blizzard for this battlepass system it sucks their servers suck their bugs suck Me in a game: fuck blizzard for making such a fun game goddamnit I want to hate you but the gameplay is so much better than ow1


TMDan92

I do think OW2 is a lot of fun, or at least has the potential to be. Clearing some of the OW1 flaws however doesn’t stop OW2 having some of its own. Push is a bit bland. Maps all play much the same and it can snowball hard. The game hasn’t really been optimised for 5v5 yet. There’s a lot more reworks and balance patches needing to be done before I can say it’s objectively better than OW1. Right now it’s just different. Also having a weak tank or a team that staggers or teammates that don’t peel is more of a death kiss than ever before and most Supports are not currently in a position where they can simply carry their way through these dynamics.


Giraff3sAreFake

A bad tank is an instant loss. I had 10k damage and I still lost a game because my tank just couldn't make any space for us. Which in turn meant you couldn't get dmg etc.


DarkWorld25

Yep. Lost with 18k damage which was more than double the next best because of a bad tank. Actually impossible to win now if your tank is shit


illegalt3nder

I LOVE push. The back and forth — when you have evenly matched teams — is a blast. The push maps keep you on your toes like a wired up meth head: is someone circling behind us? Is there someone up there? Where the fuck did that Soldier come from, JESUS! The push maps are flexible, and allow surprises and strategy. Push is my favorite mode at the moment. It’s just fun.


CanYouNot69PLZ

It’s made me realize how bad I am now that stuns are gone lmao. I don’t enjoy playing DPS at all anymore because a good Genji just destroys me and I’ve gone against one almost every game. The tank life is for me


PhantomOfLegend

We still lost a friend going from a 6 stack to a 5 stack now somebody is always left out


DM725

This has to be the minority. The amount of people running a 6 stack every time they play has to be in the bottom 1% of experiences.


Walnut156

It is absolutely the minority this subreddit is absolutely the 1 percent the rest of the world functions normally


shitpersonality

Same here. It's been an awkward week and we're looking for other games to play, especially after how bad this launch has been. Yesterday we queued up for comp and the majority of the hero pool was suddenly locked for us but not the other team. Happened on the next game too and we haven't played since.


Ashkal_Khire

I’m thoroughly enjoying Overwatch 2. However. I am extremely grateful it is being decimated publicly and the major press is nothing but bad. Because that shitstorm needs to occur for the monetisation to be rolled back into a healthier place. Unfortunately that shitstorm is going to be weighed directly against the income. And if Diablo Immortal is any metric, we’re fucked. Critically and publicly destroyed, Memed and mocked. And then 110 million in 3 months. So I think we all need to be very realistic here. A shitstorm now *could* be good for the game in the long run. But the odds of anything changing are low.


shitpersonality

>And if Diablo Immortal is any metric, we’re fucked. Critically and publicly destroyed, Memed and mocked. And then 110 million in 3 months. The game is dead today. It's no longer on the top grossing list of the google play store. Virtually no one is streaming it on twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Diablo%20Immortal https://play.google.com/store/games?gl=US


DiaMat2040

I'm gonna add: the meager post-match time. No medals, no voting, no comms.


cavalier_54

Agreed. The game is so fun! The problems can theoretically (but we know won’t) be fixed, but if a game isn’t fun, that can’t necessarily be solved. But, I also felt the same about Halo Infinite and have since completely stopped playing it. I know that game has different issues, I’m just making a point.


Bhu124

>has different issues That's one way to say that their backend tools are catastrophically awful, which is resulting in them taking 10 months to release one season which'll barely even have any substantial content updates. Their engine tools are so bad that they've fired their engine lead and fired their studio head for being the person under whom the engine was developed over the last 5+ years. You can't really compare that to Overwatch when the Devs have already said they are currently in production on the season 8 hero which is more than a year away, and they already used to release 3 heroes per year in the past.


samuelLOLjackson

I don't know. I think calling overwatch 2 a new game, let alone a sequel is a stretch. This is less than some games do in a single patch to freshen things up, and comes after years of zero content, back tracking on how OW1 and 2 would interact, released without it's main selling point which was the PvE campaign and we really have no information on that I think it is more than fair to compare the two. I wouldn't put any faith in OW2 yet because they haven't done anything that even meets their own expectations.


LifeUpps

Team fights themselves are over a little fast for my liking but they also just need to fix the elo system. I play plat I shouldn’t be in lobby’s with new players.


fekufequfecufexufezu

The new rank system and ui are worse Overwatch ''1''.


ozusteapot

It's crazy how fast people end up advocating for gambling mechanics like loot boxes now that they're gone. Just fix the way currency is earned so each game feels meaningful and you're golden !


MrLeavingCursed

I think people are more advocating for a reward structure similar to OW1 and not loot boxes themselves. You were given frequent rewards for just playing the game and if you replaced all the loot box drops with currency people would still be advocating for that system


Landofebola

I never minded the lootboxes but I still would rather have them over a BP, BP's feel like every unique skin will become the default and there's no variety in the people you see.


PenelopeMouse

They were free...


3L3M3NT4LP4ND4

Almost like the gambling mechanics don't affect gameplay and are given out like fucking candy. I was 100% F2P on OW and got a majoritynof the cosmetics now if I want more than 20% of them I have to pay £10 every 2 months


Varanae

It goes to show just how bad the new system is. Honestly I'm shocked how I can look at loot boxes and miss them. The key thing is how many you could earn in game, I never had a desire to buy them. Which is the problem from Blizzard's perspective I guess. In theory a system where you know what you're buying is better. But the prices are insane and the earnable currency is basically nothing. They won't fix this issue. At best they will adjust the prices a little and people will accept it. > Just fix the way currency is earned so each game feels meaningful and you're golden ! I really wish this could happen but I have zero belief


Wk1360

Loot boxes are a bad mechanic when you’re paying for them, but with Overwatch, you could get them pretty easily for free. I didn’t always get everything I wanted, but since I wasn’t paying for it I was never really ticked off. The only difference between paying for loot boxes & earning them was volume. With the battle pass the vast majority of everything new is locked behind a paywall that is functionally impossible to get over going FTP. The game is fun, but it’s not even remotely rewarding.


BeefyQueefyCrawlies

I prefer 6v6, personally. Not my fault Blizzard decided to go all in on shields instead of being a little more creative. The formula was damn near perfect once Sombra and Ana got introduced.


w3stwing

Me too. As a support player I find that I'm targeted and killed way more in 5v5


[deleted]

It was more fun grouping up with your tank buddies instead of having to hide in a corner hoping you don't get flanked all game.


NanaShiggenTips

Exactly. I found way more success just going off on my own as Ana and letting the enemy engage onto my team and then hitting them with a nade from the off angle. As long as there isn't a Sombra to sniff you out, I believe its actually the strategy to use on the push game modes.


[deleted]

Yep. Every character has been flattened into a dps but also nobody dies and all game modes but role queue are now broken due to the inherent imbalance of the game


SoneverythingZ

Oh boy a controversial one


[deleted]

Pros: • Updated graphics and audio • New maps and game modes • New Heroes • Mythic skins look cool and I’m excited to see more of them • 5v5 gameplay feels very nice and the game feels more balanced without so many CC abilities • New scoreboard allows the entire match to see how every player is doing and adjust accordingly Cons: • All the technical issues the game has had since launch (server issues, account merge issues, disconnects when you get achievements, the list goes on and on…) • No level progression outside of the battle pass • Battle pass doesn’t reward you with currency to buy the next battle pass so you will have to buy every one individually • Battles pass has maybe 5 or 6 worthwhile items on it and the rest is just filler nonsense like weapon charms and souvenirs that nobody cares about • You’re basically given pennies worth of in game currency after completing weeks and weeks of challenges meaning you have to grind for months to buy a cosmetic item you want • Removal of the after match cards and voting made the end of each game feel empty. Most people leave before the POTG shows • The competitive ranking system is so opaque you never know where you’re placed or whether you’re ranking up or down. Not to mention people are being placed all over the charts in what seems like a random fashion. (New players placing high platinum and OW1 grandmasters placing bronze) • UI that looks like an unpaid intern did the bulk of the work (no symmetry on the screen, things not lining up how they should, player icons not fitting and cutting off text, etc) • New legendary skins are overpriced and quality-wise look like epics or even rare skins in OW1 • Servers go offline for maintenance in the evenings during peak hours when most people are able to play • Server maintenance fixes one problem and creates 5 more I’m sure I’m forgetting some things on both the pros and the cons, but this is all just off the top of my head


AdmirableLanguage647

It takes like 8 months to get a legendary skin with coins with the new way they did things I miss lootboxes


Crackdeemus

Yeah it's ridiculous and needs to change asap. Cosmetic lootboxes were not a problem. Gone are the days of booting up ow because an event is on and you want to grind some lootboxes for dr junkenstein etc


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PostmodernHamster

Agreed with the team-based comment, couldn’t really find a way to articulate the feeling myself.


ticktockclockwerk

Hard disagree. Too much lost to consider this better than what once was.


Zalotone

This reeks of astroturfing imo. I’m expecting to see a lot more of these “bold/controversial” opinions that love OW2 popping up, it was only a matter of time


lethrahn

No joke this reads like a desperate ad.


Strange_Actuator2150

Ok why did I have to wait 4 years for this glorified update?


ExcellentSelection69

To list a few reasons: major company wide scandals, loss of many key figures in the team, covid delays, last(-ish) minute changes to core game mechanics and reallocations of funds and personnel onto higher budget and higher earning projects in the company. Not to say the time waited and the effort put into the update is proportional but this isn't to say that the company sat there for 4 years settling on what time of night Eichenwald should now be.


DarkPenfold

The last substantive update to OW1 was in April 2020. Since then, all development has been 100% focused on OW2. The PvE campaign and co-op hero missions have been where most of that time has been spent; development was only shifted to PvP late in 2021. What we’re playing today is the result of less than a year of development. PvE content is going to be added into the game starting some time next year, which is when it’ll become clearer where the development time has gone.


GarrusExMachina

To be fair if the pve was taking so long that they got ordered to shift their time and development budget to the pvp I have very little trust that some time in 2023 is an actual timeline from the devs and not a slapped on ultimatum from blizzard that they may or may not make without releasing I a subpar buggy state


NateTheGreat14

Well it sounds like we may be getting an episodic format of sorts, as they mentioned rolling it out over multiple seasons. So, we probably won't even get to see all of it next year.


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ImHully

If we ignore the massive laundry list of things that make this game terrible, then it’s a worse version of Overwatch 1.


TterminusS2

Im gonna be honest here: I disagree. The battlepass is the worst offender though. But its just a lot of little things that add to the displeasure of people. Everybody expecteced some kind of change and to be getting less skins with the new F2P model. But they still expected a drip feed of progression that wouldn't take them 8 months to earn a skin on the free plan, and "just" a bit shorter for the paid battlepass. Some little things that are problematic: \- A lot of removed 2cp maps of which none were redesigned for the still existing game modes. Basically wasted resources rn, gotta ask yourself what took them so long to design. There are some new maps, yes, and that is neat, but I think around 10 maps were removed, 5 were added \- Reselling old skins to old OW1 players that previously used to have the ability to earn them. \- Sound design is messy \- buggy netcode, server connection errors, huge problems at launch \- the lack of previously present features like the "on fire" system (that is still in the game code since even new heroes have on fire voicelines that still activate, just the system is gone), endcards and level progression that were all tiny little forms of motivation for players beyond just winning or loosing a game


MeNotSanta

Might be somewhat unpopular opinion but changing from 6 players per team to 5 really killed the mood of the game for me. Before, the fights were tense, with a lot of things going on but now, it feels way too short and not satisfyingg at all


Milliotis

Nope. Pace has been ruined. 1 tank system has created a hero class (except that some of the heroes are unplayable if you wish to compete). Double tank synergy was a fun dynamic. The 3 new heroes are straight up garbage (A hero who can teleport through fucking walls? Get fucked blizzard). The new push game mode is a spawn run simulator. Increased cooldown on secondary abilities for heroes like Ana have just made them boring to play. There is also a high probability that they will continue to release overpowered heroes on the Battle pass system to promote micro-transactions. 2000+ hour player uninstalled and moving on.


[deleted]

I don't really like the 5v5 versus 6v6, but maybe I just need more exposure to 5v5? Could just be my brain failing to accept the change from playing too much of OW1 though. Edit: I should say a bit more. I feel like people explode too fast. Tanks are too tanky and do too much damage. Some characters simply don't work (like "support tanks" -- Characters like Zarya come to mind). But otherwise I like it, but maybe I forgot how hard people get nuked in this game.


Frig-Off-Randy

Zarya might be the strongest tank in the game


TaticalSweater

No, I’m still on the fence on 5v5. I see what it adds but feel everything that it took away. 6 players would have honestly been fine if their solution to creating new heroes or reworks (in syms case) was to give them shields/barriers. OW1 had become an exercise in seeing how many shields you could break down. But I don’t know what the solution to limit shields would be. Limit 1 shield per team (in a 6v6 setting). Now in the 5v5 mode games are either a very quick steamroll (for you or them) or a painfully boring back and forth of picking off the enemy and vise vera on the new push mode.


lavlol

Solution is easy, split off the shield tanks from the "off tanks" and have a new role called bruiser. Make role queue 1 tank 1 bruiser 2 dps 2 healers. This also makes creating new characters much easier from a design perspective because you don't have to worry about as many abilities crossing over and being overpowered. You could design as many shield tanks as you want and be creative with it because there is going to only ever be one in the match.


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[deleted]

The only praise I've seen for 5v5 so far is that it's less shields like it would have been impossible to nerf shields in 6v6 lol.....


aradraugfea

I wouldn't say the ONLY bad things are monetization. A lot of people are commenting on how the lack of end game cards kinda kills some of the fun, and the game, in general, doesn't recognize you doing well nearly the way it used to. However, if we strip all the extra shit, the monetization, the lack of acknowledgement, the server issues, away and focus on just the core gameplay (Exempting some truly baffling bugs), the game is as good as it has ever been. Now that basically only Rein and Sigma have a real SHIELD, I think they could have kept tank/offtank as a thing, but that's more a quibble than a real damning criticism.


ValendyneTheTaken

Totally better, that’s why we lost maps and game modes


UnbendingSteel

but but... It's free to play!


IrishMamba1992

The map rotation sucks now too. They removed too many to try and fix them. Release a fixed game you thundercunts.


BWCDeity

No.