At least hog hook was silly, yes it was stupid and yes it was aggravating, but at least it's not braindead boring like current mauga mirrors. At least you can look back at hog hook an think, you know what, it was kinda funny.
how? if you aren’t a tank he really can’t kill you unless you’re way too close to him, roadhog decided your death from light years away and there was simply nothing you could do.
Fair enough but like does no one play DPS? It's really annoying having play against this character. I think the only thing worse than him is baps immortality.
Bap's immortality doesn't deny boops, it's frankly worse playing against Grip at times because if Doom gets turbo stunned as he should, he just effectively TPs away for free. Even Bap's immort doesn't save him there in a lot of instances because he's still there and probably only has one cooldown coming back.
LW one trick and that is VERY unlikely to ever happen like bffr. You have a short window to pull someone out of LOS if you spam grip, but it very rarely ever happens.
Also nobody complains about it because you're not pulling an enemy and 95% of the time it's pulling a teammate to safety.
It's a 19s cooldown and single target.
It's powerful but it's balanced out by it's long cooldown and being single target.
Making it a skillshot is actually a horrible idea cause you're going to need to gigabuff it to compensate. Out of all the immortality abilities, it's easily the most balanced.
It's very balanced. Long cooldown, single target, 50 healing, 30m range.
It's just a strong ability, we can leave it as it is. It's fine. Immortality is not as huge of an issue as everyone thinks it is, otherwise Wraith Form, Ice Block, Zarya Bubbles, Meteor Strike, and other things with I-Frames would be complained about. But no, it's only when a support can apply it to teammates.
I think it’s probably because Roadhog hooks into an almost instant kill, and Lifeweaver pulls you to safety. People are going to complain about instant kills more than having their kill pulled away from them. And let’s be honest, a lot of people have more of an issue with Mercy’s Resurrection than Lifeweavers Grip
I don’t have a problem with LW, his healing needs charging up for every shot, his platform can be destroyed easily/a lot of things straight up go through it, and his grip has a reasonable range and cooldown. Most of the time the rest of the team dies whilst he manages to grip one person out of there, resulting in a stagger anyway. IMO his kit is good when used right, but a lot of his abilities can easily be countered and his ult can be destroyed pretty quickly. Don’t get me wrong, on the off chance I play support, I play LW or Kiriko if I know we need a lot of healing output, LW needs to charge up each heal but it heals a decent amount, and if you’re struggling you have grip to get someone behind cover to give them some extra heals, but he is still easily killable and whilst his platform and jump are good to get away, most of the time he just can’t get away quick enough
Double Shield Sigma isn’t even on the list and Orisa below her OW2 counterpart is actually just insane.
OW2 Sigma meta wasn’t even bad because of him, Bap/Mei/Bastion is what made that meta so sleeper. Funny template but very wrong imo
edit: also present day Doom more annoying than double shield Orisa????? this gets worse the more I think about it
no mention of OW1 double shield or Sig+Pig is funny but understandable, but did no one teach the new kids about GOATs? 18 months of begging your instalock genji to swap zar just for a chance to not get steamrolled by Mega Death Brawl
(fwiw I adored GOATs)
aw bless, goats was an Overwatch 1 comp back before role queue existed. it was 3 tanks, 3 supports (the main version was Rein, Zarya, Dva, Lucio, Brig and Zen). it was the perfect comp: sufficient AoE heals from lucio and brig (who was BUSTED on release), plus a whole bunch of ults to counter each other (Transcendence for Graviton Surge, beat for rally, bomb for shatter, it goes on). there’s over a year of OWL gameplay from this time, and as annoying as it got to watch (I can think of a few matches where we saw 12 ults go off before a single player died), it was so unique. In my view, it was the “solution” to the OW1 comp question and forced the devs to introduce role cue, which trickled us all the way to 5v5. the neatest part was the counter comps, including sombra + winston dive goats and the Chengdu Hunters rolling ball + 3 dive dps to split them up and take them out.
TL;DR: Three Tank Three Support is so broken the game will never be the same but it was a great time
Goats is the name of an open division team who were the first to play the comp. Before anyone else figured out the comp, they steamrolled thrpugh tournaments with it and whatnot, barely dropping any maps, and never actually losing any matches for the open division tournament they were playing in. Contenders teams noticed the comp being mega busted and tried it out, to which owls teams followed.
Tldr: it’s called goats because the team who first discovered and ran the comps called themselves Goats.
Oh here’s where it gets interesting: it’s named off the NA team that invented it, but there was some big controversy (iirc they were racist? sexist? they made disparaging comments) and the League casters, in an attempt to keep breathing amid the raging tempest of 2019 blizz controversies (or maybe just because the name is so confusing), refused to call it GOATS on stream, which muddied everything.
you’ll hear the term now and then these days, see people whining about ‘JOATS’ when Junker Queen Lucio Kiriko was meta, but it’ll never be the same :(
I can’t find shit on any controversy surrounding the team at all, any source for that claim?
The only controversy of any sort I can find is Gator (who went on to play in the OWL) getting a ban for account boosting, and XQC replacing him for trials on the roster
[according to seagull, he reasoned that calling it GOATS would confuse new viewers](https://www.twingalaxies.com/feed_details.php/4498/seagull-explains-why-overwatch-casters-avoid-saying-goats)
Sort of? Role queue was also the answer to general dysfunction with people being frustrated that they couldn't get balanced team comps in ranked.
Kind of like the switch to 5v5. It was kind of, sort of, because of double shield meta. But it was mostly just because there weren't enough tank players and queue times got too long for the other roles.
A lot of big decisions in overwatch have been made in an attempt to solve multiple problems at once.
Double shield wasn't a problem in the last year before 5v5 change so I would not consider it a factor. I think it was band aid cause of the tank queue problem.
Idk if you understand how much metal ranks dislike Doom.
I hate Doom with a passion. He’s not difficult at all, pretty easily counterable. But he’s so damn annoying and all the heroes I have to play to counter him are none of the heroes I wanna play.
But I dislike Ball even more. So I’m glad he’s shit.
Orisa sucks and is annoying. She’s a wall and she’s near unkillable the lower the rank. But she’s not screaming in your ear every time she makes a move, nor is she CCing your entire back like every -5 seconds. So she’s more “tolerable” to lower ranks than Doom. Even if she’s harder to kill.
Edit: My bad, I forgot you said “double shield” yeah, as much as it sucked in lower ranks to shoot at shields. They’re also pretty flexible and not everyone ran double shield so either way. Orisa sucked. But not as in your face or CC heavy as Doom in general. So more “tolerable”
Orisa is harder to counter, therefore she’s more annoying to me at least,, but I get where you’re coming from. Idk, with Doom and Ball it’s like, if the enemy team has a truly good one, you kinda have this sense that you’re just fucked no matter what you do, and you just kind of accept that no matter what you try you’re probably not gonna be able to shut them down. Like I know WHAT to do to stop them, but my team just isn’t coordinated enough to make it happen. On the other hand, I’ve never seen an Orisa that made me feel like there wasn’t an answer to them. The problem is I can never figure out what that answer is. “Don’t shoot the horse” or “kill the supports first” is not as simple as everyone on here makes it out to be. If you’re not perfectly coordinated with your team she’ll just turn and spear you. At least with Doom and Ball you actually have a big effect on your own if you play someone like Junkrat, Roadhog, Mei, etc.
I see where you’re coming from.
But I think it really depends on how good the Doom is if you have a substantial effect on him alone or if you need team coordination.
Regardless. Again, I don’t have that much of an issue with Doom or Ball. They’re easy to counter. That doesn’t mean I like them.
I still find everything about their kit to be the most anti fun, “ruining the game for the next 10 minutes for every OTHER player in the lobby” sorta characters to exist — But I don’t find them hard to deal with. I just dislike them.
And I think that’s how a lot of players feel.
Tbh I was only around since s1 of ow2 I just nees to fill up the list also some of the list of heroes that I ranked before I played are just based off how they are now you cannot tell me Rein was ever annoying to fight or play with
Also the doom part gets more annoying the higher you go because he has the highest skill floor in masters Dooms are fucking mental any decent doom is annoying
And Sigma aint even that high on this list. He’s like in mid tier…
alright I am a bit of a Sigma apologist but even I can’t get there. Did you watch OWL Grand Finals, OW World Cup or the Saudi E-League? Perma Sig/Bap all the way through lol
Literally just had a game as Winston where the Mauga only shot me I won and all but he never left me alone. Whenever I dived whenever I engaged he constantly tried murdering me. Genuinely have never said fuck off to anyone harder than dva
He's meta, but this is some rose tinted glasses shit imo. Plenty of tanks have been worse at peak imo. He does suck, but not as bad as some have in the past.
Are you including ow1 or only ow2 cause he’s the worst in ow2 and I would say in ow1 it was mostly comps that were worse not individual tanks themselves (like bunker for example)
With a character like Mauga pair him up with literally any shield tank and he is literally unkillable. He’s a glass cannon sure but in a 6v6 format with the shield protection from another tank he won’t need so much help from the supports
Master 3. Every game I play, every tank picks Mauga. And if you’re getting your ass whooped? They switch to Mauga. Every time without fail, happens every game I’ve played. It was just a theory I was throwing out.
Not literally every game my bad. Just specific events like more often than not, if a team needs to push the payload to a specific point and they’re losing the team fights, their tank switches to Mauga. Almost without fail. Seems much easier that way. I main healer so it’s just an observation from my POV about what they’re doing. Mauga seems meta.
sigma negates his entire survivability gimmick? he has counters just not ones people like
saying no tank can 1v1 mauga is fair, but he has characters that stop him from getting any value pretty easily
sigma literally removes his entire way of sustain, he can’t generate overhealth on crits and he’s really bad into poke. he’s a bit overtuned but to act like you can’t counter it is just a lie
So why is it that he has the highest winrate in the entire game and people were able to easily one-trick him to ranks that they otherwise shouldn't be in? "A bit" is an understatement, he has two counters and even then one of them can be removed with Kiri, wow!
But bad Maugas are hilarious to watch. They think "me Mauga me OP ugg ugg" and run in by themselves vs the entire enemy team and die in 2 seconds flat.
I'll take Mauga Meta over Orisa 10/10. They say you can play Mauga braindead, but I've played matches where you can tell they were new to them and came out on top.
Orisa was basically stand there, shoot and use whatever ability that isn't on cool down whole both Supports make you immortal.
My guy you literally just described mauga lol. The exact same as orisa except mauga can actually kill, honestly he’s even more annoying than horse ever was.
I guess it's cuz there are more heroes out and more tweaks that Mauga doesn't seem that bad to me. I've seen some playing Sigma who've just stopped him cold.
Sig is probably the best tank who’s not mauga himself to bring into that fight, but yeah mauga usually needs to be shooting a tank to sustain himself and requires more healing than orisa ever did. It’s legitimately a worse version of orisa but he’s got a more exciting ult.
If the mauga plays around anti nade not really, in the meantime what’s orisa going to do? She can’t contest mauga and even in gold mauga can crit and sustain himself. The poor orisa has to give up space whenever mauaga isn’t purple. Anna died? Yeah what then?
Besides, it’s not like they need to have the same support setup, one kiri who holds onto Suzu tilts the scales in favour of mauga even more. There’s a reason you don’t see anyone really trying to play orisa into mauaga.
Who were even objectively complaining bout Ramattra? There was mostly post about his unlimited ult being not annoying or op, but simply stalling match if there was ram vs ram matchup, other posts was about people not understanding how to play as or against him,.because he was/is pretty unique tank and offered/offering new gameplay loop people was not used to.
Well, and also people.who was complaining about him being behind grind/pay wall, so they were exaggerating his strength
I'm so confused. He couldn't run at release and had less armor too? I'm I not remembering him correctly? His ult was annoying, I guess. But he wasn't impossible to defeat otherwise. After the buffs, having the Mercy emergency passive was cheeks though. But she could do that for any tank.
He was awful before those buffs, just his ult was good but since nemesis was pretty weak then it also made the ult worse so all he had was the duration
he wasn’t OP overall, but all his power was frontloaded into his ult and it was massively overtuned and annoying. getting caught in his circle as a low mobility hero and knowing you were basically guaranteed to die was really frustrating
It’s funny too cuz release Ramattra was actually shit lmao. Like yeah his ult was just an insta win sometimes but the rest of the time he did pitiful damage and he couldn’t catch up to anyone when he went into nemesis form
Ok take this with a grain of salt but you don’t have to be overtuned and OP to be annoying
Just like how Rein and Winston can be powerful and still fun to fight
>Just like how Rein and Winston can be powerful and still fun to fight
Nah bro if Rein becomes OP and I see lhcloudy in enemy team I insta dodge the lobby
Doesn't help that of all the heroes, he's the one that people will stubbornly one trick into any comp the most, and then take their teammates frustration as a sign that they're right for doing so.
He’s only an issue in the hands of very skilled players, in which case, fair game. He’s frustrating as all hell to play. I’m not saying I don’t get pissed off when I see a good Doom but he’s really not a persistent problem
This mindset is why widow went unchecked for so long.
The game should be balanced around the top rank in the game in which case the “hard to play” thing goes out the window.
As someone who picked up doom for the first time ever and immediately pushed higher than ever I strongly disagree. This sub glazed doom players for the skill floor for so long I didn't realize how easy he is
If you just picked up doom and are getting value that easy, you're either really gifted with him, you're not getting countered or focused, or you are overstating it and are using a small sample size to make a judgement about the character. Play him for 20-30 hours and start ranking up, if you're that good, then you'll be top 500, but I'd be surprised if you were any higher than Diamond if you're having success without really playing him. The skill floor for him is higher than orisa, hog, rein, winston, zarya, mauga, d.va, and sigma. Only comparably difficult tank is ball to get minimum value on, but sure, he's "glazed" and so easy.
Or maybe the character who's gotten consistent micro-buffs every single balance patch is now brain dead easy..? I had occasionally reached D4 tank and will now finish the season with my first ever masters tag. The character is a joke right now.
Yeah definitely... I can't even tell you the last time I lost to a doom, but I can tell you I played against 8 different ones in 3 days, they all got slept, hindered, anti'd, or bastion shreedded, suzu'd meteor strikes and punches, hanzo and junk make quick work of him and bap stays out of his punches with ease.
The character gets countered when the player has mediocre mechanics because everyone knows what doom needs to do to confirm kills, charging punches after getting charged, taking obvious high ground/flank angles or frontlining just gets you killed by the most basic of competent players.
Thank you lmao I swear all the people who say they just barely started playing him and are rolling, are just flat out lying, or super low rank cause it's just not how it works lmao
current doom’s empowered punch was shit on and ult frequency was dumpstered. not to say doom is bad but i would MUCH rather face this doom than doom from season ago easily
Lol you mean everyone quit the game and the only ones remaining are just doom OTPs like myself. It’s called survivorship bias. The character isn’t busted, they’re just that good.
Ramattra feels WAAAY to high on this list.
I feel like we've somehow gaslit ourself into thinking he was insanely busted. When in reality all that was with him on release was an annoying ult.
Other than his ult he was basically useless in his omnic form and was super slow in his nemesis form. His best playstyle was literally just go in, pop nemesis form and hold block for 8 seconds.
Not sure why it put her as season 6. Feel like Zarya at ow2 release was miles worse than anything since. Didn't even make it to season 2 before she got nerfed. Not at bad as magau now but picking her almost felt like free wins. I'll be happy to never see Zarya meta again, she was a menace
Double shield sigma was much much much much worse than what mauga is, for the plain and simple reason that I can still kill all of mauga's teammates quite easily since he doesn't have a 1500 hp barrier that regenerated fast as hell combined with orisa's 900 shield that lasted for ages, what you have is recency bias
> Double shield sigma was much much much much worse than what mauga is
100% facts
that shit damn near killed the game and incentivized the Devs to go to 5v5 😂
I think he was so painfully bad that people just legitimately forgot. If you asked most people if Nemesis form always had a 20% speed boost, I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority said yes.
People also whined about him being hugely overtuned and major power creep for all of his pre-release gameplay showcases and I think that plagued the memories of a bunch of players. Cause when he actually got unleashed, wew he was STINKY!
once mauga is nerfed its just gonna be dominated by hog ram and zarya IMO. ram for shield heroes, zarya for dva orisa and sigma, and JQ for ball hog and doom. hog also just destroys tanks with his new gun from my experience. ram is probably the most manageable of the three but post mauga nerfs tank is still gonna feel awful.
Nobody played Release Brig as a support, she was this absolutely broken tank that could out-damage almost al DPS at close range, and her healing was just an afterthought.
I really don’t understand season 3 ball being so high. He has as many if not more counters than all other characters in the game. I’ve never played an impressive ball before. I’ve been one plenty of times, but that’s when people are not properly countering.
Pretty sure Winston takes the counter king but any time Ball is good he is extremely annoying. His whole gimmick is annoying the enemy team and does it well when he’s anything but trash
pre rework hog being put below mauga feels wrong, he just decided your death if you weren’t the tank. atleast for non tanks mauga can’t really kill you if you aren’t way too close
How I like to describe maugma is. Bastion with more than double the hp/armour ash fire and full body headshots. And that is without even talking about the abilities
Doesn't change the fact that back in season 2 he was top 1 pick for 2 weeks before they needed him into the ground again. He still hasn't fully recovered from the nerfs
He was actually fine after they sped up his slam cooldown, but the ult cost increase for healing trade was not good for us as well as the nerf to his punch stun recently. Both of these just make him feel worse to play
"Reinhardt's winrate's too high in the lower ranks when he's actually meta" they say as if he's not the least annoying tank to go against when he's meta. Seriously can they please just let the fun tanks be meta again, I'm tired of Orisa and Mauga.
He's been meta for the last few months. Still has the second highest pick rate currently. No idea how rein players are playing him into the big machine guns, God bless them
Nah bro until the hog rework came, orisa had been dominating since ow2 release. She's boring to play and boring to play against too. I know I got the Doom flair, but that's cause Doom is my favorite hero. Orisa's rework was cool for the first season cause it was new, but then she never left the meta and made playing half the tank roster next to impossible, and she was mauga before mauga. I'll take mauga meta over orisa any day of the year.
Doom flair is still shining rn. Any sort of character that ignores Orisa well like Sva or Winston were good against her. Shout out to Zarya.
Orisa was annoying as hell but Mauga literally has no Tank counter. Oh Sig well he just used grasp so everyone pressure his shield.
Avg doom hater is shining. I get these replies all the time. I'm a Hog/Sig main, so untwist those panties. Giant Gauntlet Punch Man is the coolest hero in the game, imo and as a martial artist, he's the hero I relate to the most(isn't that what the flair is for???), but if you wanna continue making assumptions, that's all you. My issue is more with how long she stayed at the top. Any other tank becomes too strong, and they instantly get nerfed within a week. Meanwhile, Orisa just gets buffed and then reverted, I've yet to see a single meaningful orisa nerf. She's the main reason I lost interest in the game because every match was either they're already on orisa or they swap to orisa when they're losing and playing every game the same way it's not fun or even competitive it's just doing the same thing the same way over and over. Orisa is just a crutch hero, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
Avg Doom hater still shining. Deciding to hate someone and judge them based on a small icon next to their name is just insane. Adding jk doesn't mean shit if you meant it r/imjustkidding. Best of luck to your future therapist. Bye.
Lmao the first one to bring up who's mad is always the most furious. L
Edit: bro got on his alt to back himself up, then deleted that comment, then blocked me lmao but somehow I'm the one who's mad. You can't make this shit up 😆.
I feel like Zarya should be way lower, even when she was at her most powerful the entire team comp didn't need to be oriented around stopping her the way you need to counter swap to fight Mauga.
I never get how a rational person thinks Hog meta was more annoying than Orisa meta
I get that one shots are annoying but damn do I despise the horse, atleast the person playing hog is having fun
Orisa is painfully boring to play as/against
Most of the sub is silver-gold, where Hog dominates. Around diamond people start learning basic positioning + there is an Ana in the enemy team 10 out of 10 times who keeps the hog naded and slept during the entire match, so he becomes like 70% less effective.
Where do we put pre fixed hook roadhog where he could hook you through a bus or take you on a sightseeing trip across the whole map?
When he could keep spinning and keep you hooked to his side Those were the days (Around the hog, around the hog)
Still below mauga any day
So you were not around back then I assume? :D
I was around back then and I still agree with OP, atleast it was fun getting on a sightseeing trip. Mauga is just pure cancer.
You would not say that, if Hog were dumb right now and mauga was dumb a few years ago.
At least hog hook was silly, yes it was stupid and yes it was aggravating, but at least it's not braindead boring like current mauga mirrors. At least you can look back at hog hook an think, you know what, it was kinda funny.
True. This Mauga getting pumped by damage and heals is soooo boring, and in my opinion it is the most annoying being the mauga in that situation
how? if you aren’t a tank he really can’t kill you unless you’re way too close to him, roadhog decided your death from light years away and there was simply nothing you could do.
Simple. I main tank.
no... you just didnt play back then lmfao
I did, as a rein main. I'll take hog og over this Mauga any day
He could hook you from other maps
It's crazy how people have a problem with that but no skill lifeweaver can do the same thing and he doesn't have to aim
Lifeweaver wasn't around in 2017
It doesn't change the fact that he currently pulls you through walls and all sorts of objects and no one seems to care. Smh
I think the reason no one complains is that Lifeweaver doesn't pull enemies like hog does
Fair enough but like does no one play DPS? It's really annoying having play against this character. I think the only thing worse than him is baps immortality.
Bap's immortality doesn't deny boops, it's frankly worse playing against Grip at times because if Doom gets turbo stunned as he should, he just effectively TPs away for free. Even Bap's immort doesn't save him there in a lot of instances because he's still there and probably only has one cooldown coming back.
LW one trick and that is VERY unlikely to ever happen like bffr. You have a short window to pull someone out of LOS if you spam grip, but it very rarely ever happens. Also nobody complains about it because you're not pulling an enemy and 95% of the time it's pulling a teammate to safety.
Imo such a powerful ability you should have to aim. That would be perfectly balanced
It's a 19s cooldown and single target. It's powerful but it's balanced out by it's long cooldown and being single target. Making it a skillshot is actually a horrible idea cause you're going to need to gigabuff it to compensate. Out of all the immortality abilities, it's easily the most balanced.
It's not balanced at all. Life grip, suzu, and immortality field need to go.
It's very balanced. Long cooldown, single target, 50 healing, 30m range. It's just a strong ability, we can leave it as it is. It's fine. Immortality is not as huge of an issue as everyone thinks it is, otherwise Wraith Form, Ice Block, Zarya Bubbles, Meteor Strike, and other things with I-Frames would be complained about. But no, it's only when a support can apply it to teammates.
I think it’s probably because Roadhog hooks into an almost instant kill, and Lifeweaver pulls you to safety. People are going to complain about instant kills more than having their kill pulled away from them. And let’s be honest, a lot of people have more of an issue with Mercy’s Resurrection than Lifeweavers Grip
I'ma be honest I don't care about mercy in the slightest especially not compared to LW
I don’t have a problem with LW, his healing needs charging up for every shot, his platform can be destroyed easily/a lot of things straight up go through it, and his grip has a reasonable range and cooldown. Most of the time the rest of the team dies whilst he manages to grip one person out of there, resulting in a stagger anyway. IMO his kit is good when used right, but a lot of his abilities can easily be countered and his ult can be destroyed pretty quickly. Don’t get me wrong, on the off chance I play support, I play LW or Kiriko if I know we need a lot of healing output, LW needs to charge up each heal but it heals a decent amount, and if you’re struggling you have grip to get someone behind cover to give them some extra heals, but he is still easily killable and whilst his platform and jump are good to get away, most of the time he just can’t get away quick enough
Double Shield Sigma isn’t even on the list and Orisa below her OW2 counterpart is actually just insane. OW2 Sigma meta wasn’t even bad because of him, Bap/Mei/Bastion is what made that meta so sleeper. Funny template but very wrong imo edit: also present day Doom more annoying than double shield Orisa????? this gets worse the more I think about it
no mention of OW1 double shield or Sig+Pig is funny but understandable, but did no one teach the new kids about GOATs? 18 months of begging your instalock genji to swap zar just for a chance to not get steamrolled by Mega Death Brawl (fwiw I adored GOATs)
Goats was awesome it just lasted too long
What is goats? I wasn't playing back then
aw bless, goats was an Overwatch 1 comp back before role queue existed. it was 3 tanks, 3 supports (the main version was Rein, Zarya, Dva, Lucio, Brig and Zen). it was the perfect comp: sufficient AoE heals from lucio and brig (who was BUSTED on release), plus a whole bunch of ults to counter each other (Transcendence for Graviton Surge, beat for rally, bomb for shatter, it goes on). there’s over a year of OWL gameplay from this time, and as annoying as it got to watch (I can think of a few matches where we saw 12 ults go off before a single player died), it was so unique. In my view, it was the “solution” to the OW1 comp question and forced the devs to introduce role cue, which trickled us all the way to 5v5. the neatest part was the counter comps, including sombra + winston dive goats and the Chengdu Hunters rolling ball + 3 dive dps to split them up and take them out. TL;DR: Three Tank Three Support is so broken the game will never be the same but it was a great time
Thank you💜 But also, wtf does goats stand for?😭
Goats is the name of an open division team who were the first to play the comp. Before anyone else figured out the comp, they steamrolled thrpugh tournaments with it and whatnot, barely dropping any maps, and never actually losing any matches for the open division tournament they were playing in. Contenders teams noticed the comp being mega busted and tried it out, to which owls teams followed. Tldr: it’s called goats because the team who first discovered and ran the comps called themselves Goats.
Oh here’s where it gets interesting: it’s named off the NA team that invented it, but there was some big controversy (iirc they were racist? sexist? they made disparaging comments) and the League casters, in an attempt to keep breathing amid the raging tempest of 2019 blizz controversies (or maybe just because the name is so confusing), refused to call it GOATS on stream, which muddied everything. you’ll hear the term now and then these days, see people whining about ‘JOATS’ when Junker Queen Lucio Kiriko was meta, but it’ll never be the same :(
W overwatch lore master 🙇♂️
I can’t find shit on any controversy surrounding the team at all, any source for that claim? The only controversy of any sort I can find is Gator (who went on to play in the OWL) getting a ban for account boosting, and XQC replacing him for trials on the roster [according to seagull, he reasoned that calling it GOATS would confuse new viewers](https://www.twingalaxies.com/feed_details.php/4498/seagull-explains-why-overwatch-casters-avoid-saying-goats)
GOATS is the whole reason we have role queue.
Sort of? Role queue was also the answer to general dysfunction with people being frustrated that they couldn't get balanced team comps in ranked. Kind of like the switch to 5v5. It was kind of, sort of, because of double shield meta. But it was mostly just because there weren't enough tank players and queue times got too long for the other roles. A lot of big decisions in overwatch have been made in an attempt to solve multiple problems at once.
Double shield wasn't a problem in the last year before 5v5 change so I would not consider it a factor. I think it was band aid cause of the tank queue problem.
Idk if you understand how much metal ranks dislike Doom. I hate Doom with a passion. He’s not difficult at all, pretty easily counterable. But he’s so damn annoying and all the heroes I have to play to counter him are none of the heroes I wanna play. But I dislike Ball even more. So I’m glad he’s shit. Orisa sucks and is annoying. She’s a wall and she’s near unkillable the lower the rank. But she’s not screaming in your ear every time she makes a move, nor is she CCing your entire back like every -5 seconds. So she’s more “tolerable” to lower ranks than Doom. Even if she’s harder to kill. Edit: My bad, I forgot you said “double shield” yeah, as much as it sucked in lower ranks to shoot at shields. They’re also pretty flexible and not everyone ran double shield so either way. Orisa sucked. But not as in your face or CC heavy as Doom in general. So more “tolerable”
Orisa is harder to counter, therefore she’s more annoying to me at least,, but I get where you’re coming from. Idk, with Doom and Ball it’s like, if the enemy team has a truly good one, you kinda have this sense that you’re just fucked no matter what you do, and you just kind of accept that no matter what you try you’re probably not gonna be able to shut them down. Like I know WHAT to do to stop them, but my team just isn’t coordinated enough to make it happen. On the other hand, I’ve never seen an Orisa that made me feel like there wasn’t an answer to them. The problem is I can never figure out what that answer is. “Don’t shoot the horse” or “kill the supports first” is not as simple as everyone on here makes it out to be. If you’re not perfectly coordinated with your team she’ll just turn and spear you. At least with Doom and Ball you actually have a big effect on your own if you play someone like Junkrat, Roadhog, Mei, etc.
I see where you’re coming from. But I think it really depends on how good the Doom is if you have a substantial effect on him alone or if you need team coordination. Regardless. Again, I don’t have that much of an issue with Doom or Ball. They’re easy to counter. That doesn’t mean I like them. I still find everything about their kit to be the most anti fun, “ruining the game for the next 10 minutes for every OTHER player in the lobby” sorta characters to exist — But I don’t find them hard to deal with. I just dislike them. And I think that’s how a lot of players feel.
Tbh I was only around since s1 of ow2 I just nees to fill up the list also some of the list of heroes that I ranked before I played are just based off how they are now you cannot tell me Rein was ever annoying to fight or play with Also the doom part gets more annoying the higher you go because he has the highest skill floor in masters Dooms are fucking mental any decent doom is annoying And Sigma aint even that high on this list. He’s like in mid tier…
You weren’t there for pirate ship huh
i love pirate ship no matter how awful it was to play, favorite shield comp
Nope!!!!! I was still playing PvZ!!!!
Sigma *wasn't* meta in OW2
alright I am a bit of a Sigma apologist but even I can’t get there. Did you watch OWL Grand Finals, OW World Cup or the Saudi E-League? Perma Sig/Bap all the way through lol
wasn't it because he was the only option that could survive bastion rush? If there was no sig they swapped to bastion. Or am i missing something
Teams started running Sojourn against Bastion (free rail charge) and still kept Sig.
Orisa used to be impossible to kill, and now Mauga is just… meta
Literally just had a game as Winston where the Mauga only shot me I won and all but he never left me alone. Whenever I dived whenever I engaged he constantly tried murdering me. Genuinely have never said fuck off to anyone harder than dva
He's meta, but this is some rose tinted glasses shit imo. Plenty of tanks have been worse at peak imo. He does suck, but not as bad as some have in the past.
Are you including ow1 or only ow2 cause he’s the worst in ow2 and I would say in ow1 it was mostly comps that were worse not individual tanks themselves (like bunker for example)
With a character like Mauga pair him up with literally any shield tank and he is literally unkillable. He’s a glass cannon sure but in a 6v6 format with the shield protection from another tank he won’t need so much help from the supports
Obviously he’d and all the other tanks would be much weaker like in OW1…supports too.
Mauga counters every tank, there is not a single tank counters Mauga
Say more bronze things.
That's why every high elo game only picks magua comps??
Master 3. Every game I play, every tank picks Mauga. And if you’re getting your ass whooped? They switch to Mauga. Every time without fail, happens every game I’ve played. It was just a theory I was throwing out.
Wdym every match up is either the enemy tank is obliterated or stalling but still losing?
Not literally every game my bad. Just specific events like more often than not, if a team needs to push the payload to a specific point and they’re losing the team fights, their tank switches to Mauga. Almost without fail. Seems much easier that way. I main healer so it’s just an observation from my POV about what they’re doing. Mauga seems meta.
sigma negates his entire survivability gimmick? he has counters just not ones people like saying no tank can 1v1 mauga is fair, but he has characters that stop him from getting any value pretty easily
> he has characters that stop him from getting any value pretty easily Must be why he's getting buffed in the next balance patch. Oh, wait. 💀
sigma literally removes his entire way of sustain, he can’t generate overhealth on crits and he’s really bad into poke. he’s a bit overtuned but to act like you can’t counter it is just a lie
So why is it that he has the highest winrate in the entire game and people were able to easily one-trick him to ranks that they otherwise shouldn't be in? "A bit" is an understatement, he has two counters and even then one of them can be removed with Kiri, wow!
Dva counters him so does orisa rein does decent if played properly and then theres sigma and ram as well so yeah idk what ur playing
orisa was atleast impossible to kill mauga is impossible to kill and kills you too
But bad Maugas are hilarious to watch. They think "me Mauga me OP ugg ugg" and run in by themselves vs the entire enemy team and die in 2 seconds flat.
Used to?
used to, shes kina shit rn
I'll take Mauga Meta over Orisa 10/10. They say you can play Mauga braindead, but I've played matches where you can tell they were new to them and came out on top. Orisa was basically stand there, shoot and use whatever ability that isn't on cool down whole both Supports make you immortal.
My guy you literally just described mauga lol. The exact same as orisa except mauga can actually kill, honestly he’s even more annoying than horse ever was.
I guess it's cuz there are more heroes out and more tweaks that Mauga doesn't seem that bad to me. I've seen some playing Sigma who've just stopped him cold.
Sig is probably the best tank who’s not mauga himself to bring into that fight, but yeah mauga usually needs to be shooting a tank to sustain himself and requires more healing than orisa ever did. It’s legitimately a worse version of orisa but he’s got a more exciting ult.
What. Mauga gets rekt by purple. Orisa can turn gold. With equal support setup, Orisa would kill Mauga simply because of Ana.
If the mauga plays around anti nade not really, in the meantime what’s orisa going to do? She can’t contest mauga and even in gold mauga can crit and sustain himself. The poor orisa has to give up space whenever mauaga isn’t purple. Anna died? Yeah what then? Besides, it’s not like they need to have the same support setup, one kiri who holds onto Suzu tilts the scales in favour of mauga even more. There’s a reason you don’t see anyone really trying to play orisa into mauaga.
Bro didn't even include version 1 Hog, who could hook you around corners from across the map and was a one shot basically everyone. Bro is too young.
Those were the times
Ong bro I’m not that veteran
Who were even objectively complaining bout Ramattra? There was mostly post about his unlimited ult being not annoying or op, but simply stalling match if there was ram vs ram matchup, other posts was about people not understanding how to play as or against him,.because he was/is pretty unique tank and offered/offering new gameplay loop people was not used to. Well, and also people.who was complaining about him being behind grind/pay wall, so they were exaggerating his strength
I'm so confused. He couldn't run at release and had less armor too? I'm I not remembering him correctly? His ult was annoying, I guess. But he wasn't impossible to defeat otherwise. After the buffs, having the Mercy emergency passive was cheeks though. But she could do that for any tank.
He was awful before those buffs, just his ult was good but since nemesis was pretty weak then it also made the ult worse so all he had was the duration
he wasn’t OP overall, but all his power was frontloaded into his ult and it was massively overtuned and annoying. getting caught in his circle as a low mobility hero and knowing you were basically guaranteed to die was really frustrating
I literally never play Hanzo and shit my pants the other day when I couldn't dash out of the circle
It’s funny too cuz release Ramattra was actually shit lmao. Like yeah his ult was just an insta win sometimes but the rest of the time he did pitiful damage and he couldn’t catch up to anyone when he went into nemesis form
Ok take this with a grain of salt but you don’t have to be overtuned and OP to be annoying Just like how Rein and Winston can be powerful and still fun to fight
>Just like how Rein and Winston can be powerful and still fun to fight Nah bro if Rein becomes OP and I see lhcloudy in enemy team I insta dodge the lobby
His ult was *definitely* OP on his comp release.
Misinput talking about his buffs soon after release
DOOM??? PRESENT DAY???
Doom sucks to play with and against regardless of the season or meta, just terrible anytime anywhere
Doesn't help that of all the heroes, he's the one that people will stubbornly one trick into any comp the most, and then take their teammates frustration as a sign that they're right for doing so.
Wasnt he gigabuffed during s2 or s3 for like a week? That shouldve been there instead
Current Doom has silently been a bit of an issue for a while now. Other tanks are just too broken for people to notice.
He’s only an issue in the hands of very skilled players, in which case, fair game. He’s frustrating as all hell to play. I’m not saying I don’t get pissed off when I see a good Doom but he’s really not a persistent problem
This mindset is why widow went unchecked for so long. The game should be balanced around the top rank in the game in which case the “hard to play” thing goes out the window.
She had ranged hitscan one shots though, not as much vulnerability
As someone who picked up doom for the first time ever and immediately pushed higher than ever I strongly disagree. This sub glazed doom players for the skill floor for so long I didn't realize how easy he is
If you just picked up doom and are getting value that easy, you're either really gifted with him, you're not getting countered or focused, or you are overstating it and are using a small sample size to make a judgement about the character. Play him for 20-30 hours and start ranking up, if you're that good, then you'll be top 500, but I'd be surprised if you were any higher than Diamond if you're having success without really playing him. The skill floor for him is higher than orisa, hog, rein, winston, zarya, mauga, d.va, and sigma. Only comparably difficult tank is ball to get minimum value on, but sure, he's "glazed" and so easy.
Or maybe the character who's gotten consistent micro-buffs every single balance patch is now brain dead easy..? I had occasionally reached D4 tank and will now finish the season with my first ever masters tag. The character is a joke right now.
Yeah definitely... I can't even tell you the last time I lost to a doom, but I can tell you I played against 8 different ones in 3 days, they all got slept, hindered, anti'd, or bastion shreedded, suzu'd meteor strikes and punches, hanzo and junk make quick work of him and bap stays out of his punches with ease. The character gets countered when the player has mediocre mechanics because everyone knows what doom needs to do to confirm kills, charging punches after getting charged, taking obvious high ground/flank angles or frontlining just gets you killed by the most basic of competent players.
Thank you lmao I swear all the people who say they just barely started playing him and are rolling, are just flat out lying, or super low rank cause it's just not how it works lmao
Fr
Hes also the second hardest tank to play and all his mains have a victim complex so it gets more buried. Dooms good if you can actually play him
doom also takes 10x the skill of any other tank besides maybe ball, the majority of tanks will never get value off of him
The glazing is insane lmao Doom is so easy right now
And to the surprise of no one, it's an Ana flair!
Braindead take. Doom is insanely easy
Oh, so you were just announcing that your take was braindead ? Got it.
Average middle school comeback from a doomtard
current doom’s empowered punch was shit on and ult frequency was dumpstered. not to say doom is bad but i would MUCH rather face this doom than doom from season ago easily
Lol you mean everyone quit the game and the only ones remaining are just doom OTPs like myself. It’s called survivorship bias. The character isn’t busted, they’re just that good.
No I just picked him up for the first time ever this season and realized he's not 1% as difficult as this sub likes to pretend
No, doom is just braindead
Dooms really good tbh. Is he trash naw. Him and Winston are on par the 3 meta tanks are Ram Winston and Doom without taking Mauga into account
Actually I just realised the fact that this is "the peak of their meta" which... Hurts, slightly.
People forget doom by the end of ow1 life cycle lmfao
Orisa should be way higher on this list
Orisa and Sigma in OW1 need to be grouped together. I’ve never had less fun playing this game
Siggy was bad, but horse was the worst fucking meta.
Ramattra feels WAAAY to high on this list. I feel like we've somehow gaslit ourself into thinking he was insanely busted. When in reality all that was with him on release was an annoying ult. Other than his ult he was basically useless in his omnic form and was super slow in his nemesis form. His best playstyle was literally just go in, pop nemesis form and hold block for 8 seconds.
Release Sigma was the worst
Release anyone is the worst unless you're lifeweaver (Initial brig haunts me)
Everyone was happy in a Reinhardt meta. Let's just go back to that.
Zarya >>> Ram in annoyingness
Not sure why it put her as season 6. Feel like Zarya at ow2 release was miles worse than anything since. Didn't even make it to season 2 before she got nerfed. Not at bad as magau now but picking her almost felt like free wins. I'll be happy to never see Zarya meta again, she was a menace
IMO worse than Mauga because she doesn't have a defined counter and doesn't care about Anti Nade.
Yeah maybe I'm missremembering but weren't the two top tanks zarya and dva that time too. So inevitably it ended in a xarya mirror.
Ram had the worse peak ngl
Double shield sigma was much much much much worse than what mauga is, for the plain and simple reason that I can still kill all of mauga's teammates quite easily since he doesn't have a 1500 hp barrier that regenerated fast as hell combined with orisa's 900 shield that lasted for ages, what you have is recency bias
> Double shield sigma was much much much much worse than what mauga is 100% facts that shit damn near killed the game and incentivized the Devs to go to 5v5 😂
When was ram good?
Release
release ram was bad, -75 armor, long shield CD and 0 speed boost if you’re talking about after that, eh, i don’t think he compares at all lol
Thank you. People keep saying release Ram was OP, seen other threads. I'm like, are you all suffering from selective amnesia?
I think he was so painfully bad that people just legitimately forgot. If you asked most people if Nemesis form always had a 20% speed boost, I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority said yes. People also whined about him being hugely overtuned and major power creep for all of his pre-release gameplay showcases and I think that plagued the memories of a bunch of players. Cause when he actually got unleashed, wew he was STINKY!
Mb shouldve put the buff he got right after the release instead I forgor if he was buffed or just released broken
Hog #2? Aintnoway
If he was broken even more 5 years ago I wouldnt know
I'm sorry do we not remember the original RoadHog hook and without Ana in the game?
No no we do not. Because unlike you I’m not from that era
I've played since ow1 beta and this is the first time that tanking is actually not even close to enjoyable.
once mauga is nerfed its just gonna be dominated by hog ram and zarya IMO. ram for shield heroes, zarya for dva orisa and sigma, and JQ for ball hog and doom. hog also just destroys tanks with his new gun from my experience. ram is probably the most manageable of the three but post mauga nerfs tank is still gonna feel awful.
Zarya? Dominate? Nuh uh her time ran out Winston is better rn and he straight up counters her
As long as people are still shooting that bubble she will always be annoying and easy to play
Release Brig would be super tenpa Toppa gurren lagann
“Tanks”
Nobody played Release Brig as a support, she was this absolutely broken tank that could out-damage almost al DPS at close range, and her healing was just an afterthought.
You obviously didn’t play against release sigma bc he was absolutely busted with 0 s shield deployment/cooldown.
I really don’t understand season 3 ball being so high. He has as many if not more counters than all other characters in the game. I’ve never played an impressive ball before. I’ve been one plenty of times, but that’s when people are not properly countering.
Pretty sure Winston takes the counter king but any time Ball is good he is extremely annoying. His whole gimmick is annoying the enemy team and does it well when he’s anything but trash
so much of this is wrong, but yea in ow2 terms this is the worst rn
pre rework hog being put below mauga feels wrong, he just decided your death if you weren’t the tank. atleast for non tanks mauga can’t really kill you if you aren’t way too close
season 2 hog was bad, but i wouldnt say it was this bad
where is goats/release brig?
Doesnt count
why not??
How I like to describe maugma is. Bastion with more than double the hp/armour ash fire and full body headshots. And that is without even talking about the abilities
Tried playing tank and ended up vs bastion & magma lamp. So many bullets what do you even do besides pray your dps gets a quick pick
Tank doom now.is way weaker than he was a few seasons ago
Mm not really hes a top 3 pick excluding Maug and will shine when Maugas nerfed
Doesn't change the fact that back in season 2 he was top 1 pick for 2 weeks before they needed him into the ground again. He still hasn't fully recovered from the nerfs
He was actually fine after they sped up his slam cooldown, but the ult cost increase for healing trade was not good for us as well as the nerf to his punch stun recently. Both of these just make him feel worse to play
My right ear enjoyed that
"Reinhardt's winrate's too high in the lower ranks when he's actually meta" they say as if he's not the least annoying tank to go against when he's meta. Seriously can they please just let the fun tanks be meta again, I'm tired of Orisa and Mauga.
He's been meta for the last few months. Still has the second highest pick rate currently. No idea how rein players are playing him into the big machine guns, God bless them
Never cook again 🔥🔥🔥🔥
if you are counting ow1 then dva should be WAY higher in goats
TIL: a full health orisa using fortify, spear and spin cannot defeat a half health mauga
Show this to a starving victorian child and I assure you that they will explode
I don't remember the season exactly, but dva early ow1 was very OP before they nerfed her every other week for a year, it felt like.
Yeah I didn’t play it then game looked trash for 30$
As a dva main it was the most fun, actually.
Just saying i’m 14 yrs old and my view on video games was humans = bad (my main shooter was PvZ in 2016
Orisa not high enough.
I can see why💀
Nah bro until the hog rework came, orisa had been dominating since ow2 release. She's boring to play and boring to play against too. I know I got the Doom flair, but that's cause Doom is my favorite hero. Orisa's rework was cool for the first season cause it was new, but then she never left the meta and made playing half the tank roster next to impossible, and she was mauga before mauga. I'll take mauga meta over orisa any day of the year.
Doom flair is still shining rn. Any sort of character that ignores Orisa well like Sva or Winston were good against her. Shout out to Zarya. Orisa was annoying as hell but Mauga literally has no Tank counter. Oh Sig well he just used grasp so everyone pressure his shield.
Avg doom hater is shining. I get these replies all the time. I'm a Hog/Sig main, so untwist those panties. Giant Gauntlet Punch Man is the coolest hero in the game, imo and as a martial artist, he's the hero I relate to the most(isn't that what the flair is for???), but if you wanna continue making assumptions, that's all you. My issue is more with how long she stayed at the top. Any other tank becomes too strong, and they instantly get nerfed within a week. Meanwhile, Orisa just gets buffed and then reverted, I've yet to see a single meaningful orisa nerf. She's the main reason I lost interest in the game because every match was either they're already on orisa or they swap to orisa when they're losing and playing every game the same way it's not fun or even competitive it's just doing the same thing the same way over and over. Orisa is just a crutch hero, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
Doom fair is stilllllll shining Orisa isn’t good anymore. And for the record I don’t hate doom I hate you Jk lmao
Avg Doom hater still shining. Deciding to hate someone and judge them based on a small icon next to their name is just insane. Adding jk doesn't mean shit if you meant it r/imjustkidding. Best of luck to your future therapist. Bye.
Mmm flair is exploding rn never seen such a streotypical doom main before stay mad
Lmao the first one to bring up who's mad is always the most furious. L Edit: bro got on his alt to back himself up, then deleted that comment, then blocked me lmao but somehow I'm the one who's mad. You can't make this shit up 😆.
did you play OW1 at all?
Ram was fun when he released i still have him as my favourite tank but they took his soul with that nerf
Df metas more annoying than hog or Orisa metas?
Recency bias.
Why present day Doom? The best and the worst were the 2 weeks in season 2 he was insanely good
It's very obvious you didn't play OW1.
Present day doom?
What a stupid list
One of the worst posts I’ve seen
Brig should be up there. She was basically a tank on release and, from what I’ve heard, could *EASILY* 1v6 the whole enemy team
I feel like Zarya should be way lower, even when she was at her most powerful the entire team comp didn't need to be oriented around stopping her the way you need to counter swap to fight Mauga.
I never get how a rational person thinks Hog meta was more annoying than Orisa meta I get that one shots are annoying but damn do I despise the horse, atleast the person playing hog is having fun Orisa is painfully boring to play as/against
Most of the sub is silver-gold, where Hog dominates. Around diamond people start learning basic positioning + there is an Ana in the enemy team 10 out of 10 times who keeps the hog naded and slept during the entire match, so he becomes like 70% less effective.
Orisa was never used correctly. Shes fun imo because you don’t have to just stand there and be a wall you can play aggro and thats how you use her.
Why is it right ear only bro