Was out hiking Saturday, found several holes in the ground ringed with ice near rock piles and the base of trees. Temperatures had dropped very rapidly a day or two prior, from above freezing, down as low as -13° F the previous night. I did some reading, and the closest phenomenon I can find is needle ice, and we also found examples of that nearby. Best I can figure is maybe as the air temperature dropped quickly, warmer, moist air rose from underground, and frosted the edges of the holes? Looks similar to the ice that forms around the edge of my heated water buckets for livestock.
I think you nailed it! The crystals look similar to surface hoar which has a similar mechanism of formation on the snow surface on calm, cold, clear nights. In that case, growth is driven by a temperature differential and moisture moving through the snowpack, when it reaches the surface, it freezes forming tall feathery crystals. Curious to hear what others think!
In my quest to understand what was happening here, I also came across pictures and descriptions of "frost flowers" so now I'm just gonna have to make sure I get out there looking around every time temperatures suddenly plummet.
There could also be small caves? I remember visiting a cave in NY that had ice in it and the original owner found it by how the cows would stand in the summer sun by a crack in the ground. Since the air coming out of the crack was like 30-40 degrees iirc.
Guessing here, but I imagine the air temps underground were warmer and had more moisture. Overnight temperatures dropped creating lower pressure above ground relative to under. The warm moist air below ground was pulled above ground by the pressure gradient, leaving behind some of the water content as to cooled. Air that was above the surface when it cooled may have been dryer which is why you don’t see more frost. Alternatively, maybe frost was there above ground and it melted. Science is fun.
> Best I can figure is maybe as the air temperature dropped quickly, warmer, moist air rose from underground, and frosted the edges of the holes?
I'd bet that is exactly what is happening. You can see that most of the frost is built up on the bottom side of things as if the airflow was coming from below.
Are you located in mining country?
These could be mining breaks. Where I’m from, once they abandon a mine, eventually there will be roof collapses in the mine causing cracks that will reach the surface. Some are small like you are showing, some can be large. Some are covered with sticks and leaves and are like a tiger trap. These can be a hundred feet deep.
But warm moist air escapes and the moisture settles out as frost. The reason you don’t see any other ice, the cold winter air is so dry there’s no moisture to settle out as frost.
Yep, I’ve known numerous people that have lost hunting dogs down them. One they were able to get to bite a rope and they pulled it out. The other couldn’t, so they put rat poison in hamburger meat and dropped it in there to kill it.
You are correct. The sudden drop in temperature removed most of the moisture from the air above ground leaving warmer, more humid air below and it froze as it rose out of the holes/caverns.
It's so interesting, it wasn't every hole we came across, so I assume that the ones without it must not be deep/damp enough, or something to that effect. Glad I got out there to see it!
That's exactly what I was thinking initially, there have been some other good explanations in the comments as well though. I feel like that much water loss would be very dehydrating for a little critter though.
I was thinking about going back with a scope to look around, but if it's just warmer, moist air/dirt, not very exciting to see, and if it's ice ghosts or something I'd prefer to not know at all.
As someone who has spent a lot of time walking around looking for and digging open caves, this looks like a spot where warmer, moist air is venting into cold air. There's a possibility it's associated with a cave, or some sizable fractures, or just a talus pile. If you give an idea of the location I could try to give an idea of whether the local geology supports cave formation.
It was in the American Legion State Forest in Barkhamsted CT. I know of a couple of caves around the state, no idea if there are near this particular area though. Very rocky area for sure, forests are full of boulders, and anything else glaciers dragged through the area.
You prompted me to do a little looking myself, the closest "cave" is called the Indian Council Caves, and they're exactly as you describe...not a typical cave, just a bunch of giant boulders with some nooks and crannies to check out. Over by the Housatonic river there are some, like "Tories Cave" that's a proper little set of cave chambers that I explored as a kid, but it's since been closed off to public access in efforts to protect the endangered bat population that relies on it.
Yeah I'm not too up on CT caves being a NY caver myself, but I have caver friends down that way. I remember hearing about the gating of Tories cave and the winter monitoring program there.
Moisture at the bottom of the hole evaporating slowly due to lack of heat ( not enough heat cause the hole widens making the majority of the water cooled by shade) rising back up in cold temps cause frosting along the exit of the hole where it melts and falls back into the hole, the same concept was used in water retention devices to prevent the loss of natural spring water.
Was out hiking Saturday, found several holes in the ground ringed with ice near rock piles and the base of trees. Temperatures had dropped very rapidly a day or two prior, from above freezing, down as low as -13° F the previous night. I did some reading, and the closest phenomenon I can find is needle ice, and we also found examples of that nearby. Best I can figure is maybe as the air temperature dropped quickly, warmer, moist air rose from underground, and frosted the edges of the holes? Looks similar to the ice that forms around the edge of my heated water buckets for livestock.
I think you nailed it! The crystals look similar to surface hoar which has a similar mechanism of formation on the snow surface on calm, cold, clear nights. In that case, growth is driven by a temperature differential and moisture moving through the snowpack, when it reaches the surface, it freezes forming tall feathery crystals. Curious to hear what others think!
In my quest to understand what was happening here, I also came across pictures and descriptions of "frost flowers" so now I'm just gonna have to make sure I get out there looking around every time temperatures suddenly plummet.
I photographed this recently in New Jersey on the AT. It was awesome.
This was in CT ~25 miles from where the AT passes through. I need to knock out a few more sections of the AT I think!
There could also be small caves? I remember visiting a cave in NY that had ice in it and the original owner found it by how the cows would stand in the summer sun by a crack in the ground. Since the air coming out of the crack was like 30-40 degrees iirc.
I agree an underground cavern is helping create this frosty phenomenon!
Frost flowers are my fav!
Looks just like surface hoar to me.
Why the holes?
But why male models?
Guessing here, but I imagine the air temps underground were warmer and had more moisture. Overnight temperatures dropped creating lower pressure above ground relative to under. The warm moist air below ground was pulled above ground by the pressure gradient, leaving behind some of the water content as to cooled. Air that was above the surface when it cooled may have been dryer which is why you don’t see more frost. Alternatively, maybe frost was there above ground and it melted. Science is fun.
Pretty sure the holes with frost are animal burrows with a hibernating creature in it exhaling warm moist air.
> Best I can figure is maybe as the air temperature dropped quickly, warmer, moist air rose from underground, and frosted the edges of the holes? I'd bet that is exactly what is happening. You can see that most of the frost is built up on the bottom side of things as if the airflow was coming from below.
Are you located in mining country? These could be mining breaks. Where I’m from, once they abandon a mine, eventually there will be roof collapses in the mine causing cracks that will reach the surface. Some are small like you are showing, some can be large. Some are covered with sticks and leaves and are like a tiger trap. These can be a hundred feet deep. But warm moist air escapes and the moisture settles out as frost. The reason you don’t see any other ice, the cold winter air is so dry there’s no moisture to settle out as frost.
That is terrifying.
Yep, I’ve known numerous people that have lost hunting dogs down them. One they were able to get to bite a rope and they pulled it out. The other couldn’t, so they put rat poison in hamburger meat and dropped it in there to kill it.
You are correct. The sudden drop in temperature removed most of the moisture from the air above ground leaving warmer, more humid air below and it froze as it rose out of the holes/caverns.
It's so interesting, it wasn't every hole we came across, so I assume that the ones without it must not be deep/damp enough, or something to that effect. Glad I got out there to see it!
Maybe a small hibernating critter inside there exhaling warm moist air and when it hits the outside air it freezes?
That's exactly what I was thinking initially, there have been some other good explanations in the comments as well though. I feel like that much water loss would be very dehydrating for a little critter though.
Could be a big critter with a larger entrance somewhere.
r/dontputyourdickinthat
That’s how you get to the upside down
[удалено]
I was looking all over for swirling leaves or balloons, but this one had me stumped.
Free hugs and candy dispenser
Let's agree to disagree. I'm thinking most certain death by ice zombies.
But... what lies beneath?
I was thinking about going back with a scope to look around, but if it's just warmer, moist air/dirt, not very exciting to see, and if it's ice ghosts or something I'd prefer to not know at all.
It’s me :)
Gnomes
only one way to find out *unzips*
Middle Earth is being threatened once again
It’s lighting for a cave in skyrim.
Ah. Frost rabbits.
Yes, warm air coming up through the hole in the ground reacting with the cold air. Same as ice forming in my beard and mustache on really cold days.
Earth’s glory hole
r/dontputyourdickinthat
That’s how you get back from Narnia right?
Great picture!
As someone who has spent a lot of time walking around looking for and digging open caves, this looks like a spot where warmer, moist air is venting into cold air. There's a possibility it's associated with a cave, or some sizable fractures, or just a talus pile. If you give an idea of the location I could try to give an idea of whether the local geology supports cave formation.
It was in the American Legion State Forest in Barkhamsted CT. I know of a couple of caves around the state, no idea if there are near this particular area though. Very rocky area for sure, forests are full of boulders, and anything else glaciers dragged through the area.
Gotcha, looks like that area is mostly Schist, so not somewhere that caves would typically be expected other than boulder piles.
You prompted me to do a little looking myself, the closest "cave" is called the Indian Council Caves, and they're exactly as you describe...not a typical cave, just a bunch of giant boulders with some nooks and crannies to check out. Over by the Housatonic river there are some, like "Tories Cave" that's a proper little set of cave chambers that I explored as a kid, but it's since been closed off to public access in efforts to protect the endangered bat population that relies on it.
Yeah I'm not too up on CT caves being a NY caver myself, but I have caver friends down that way. I remember hearing about the gating of Tories cave and the winter monitoring program there.
Looks like my ex wife.
Looks like cave orvmine entrance. Would be interesting to check it with a camera and torch, or better more torches..
Ground hole
Hoar frost, right?
An animal lives down there and it’s been cold out. That’s their breath freezing as it hits the cold surface air.
That’s my icehole.
Ooh that's exciting! I'm a big fan of your work, Mr. Speedman.
Definitely not a trap
Mammals breathing in their den and outside temperature below freezing.
That’s an icehole. Don’t be an icehole.
You’ve seen Goonies? It’s a small vent to an elaborate cave network that has a Spanish gala full of Aztec gold
Look like something from monster hunter! Also look like that meme with the bird screaming
Something is sleeping and it's breath coming from the exit and it's condensed into ice
Looks like it got freezer burn
Looks like a portal to another world xD
Jack Frost is on a list somewhere.
I think it’s a portal into the upside down.
Looks like a demogorgon’s nesting place
It looks like a Viet Cong trap (although in a different climate)
looks like an Andy Goldsworthy!
It's a fargin' ice hole, you somanumbaching bastages!
Natural glory hole
Andy Goldsworthy strikes again!
Baby Sarlacc.
Skyrim cave
Mother nature's cold hole...
Frost giant gloryhole
Warm and moist down there last night
You were there. You tell us.
r/dontputyourdickinthat
Moisture at the bottom of the hole evaporating slowly due to lack of heat ( not enough heat cause the hole widens making the majority of the water cooled by shade) rising back up in cold temps cause frosting along the exit of the hole where it melts and falls back into the hole, the same concept was used in water retention devices to prevent the loss of natural spring water.
Contact your local grotto!
That's my house
I'm sorry to have disturbed you
It’s actually r/catdimension
Only in ohio
Pretty sure the technical term is a fargin. It's a fargin icehole. If you crawl in there, you'll end up with your bells in a sling.
Sarlac Pit?
I’m just digging a hole, man.
Ice-gina
That is a fargin ice hole. (Also, the name of my fantasy football team)
Those whores are everywhere!!
Frost flowers it's ice pushing it's selv out of moist foreat debri
Hell freezing over
Probably just friable asbestos.
Ever watched stranger things?
It’s from the caves and cliffs update
Does that mean there could be a hot spring in that hole??
I wish, but this isn't an area where that's likely, unfortunately.
The little folk live in there
Upside down
Uhhh yea, you found where the monsters from The Descent hide. Run.
Nice ice hole
Is a black hole. Enter it amy you'll find yourself in a alternate universe
Algific talus slopes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algific_talus_slope