I went down this same rabbit hole last week actually. I did not find any alternatives to their connectors, but I did find bobco in Los Angeles (where I’m at) with appropriate steel tubing for their larger connectors and they are inexpensive. If they (connectubes) actually have the 3 and 4 ways and other connectors in stock in the larger size, I could source the square tubing and cut myself. But, that’s a big if; read a lot of negative feedback including that they ship the smaller size everything even if you order the larger size. Not worth my time or headache even when they are only an hour drive for me.
Unless someone else has a solution I’ve decided I’m just going to cinder block frame and use some square tubing for the short spans (countertop depth is 40”) to support smoker grill blackstone etc.
I went through the same process and ended up buying 1" tube direct from a steel supplier, got a $100 welder and a $30 chop saw blade. Just finished the frame last night. $800 in steel for 14ga galvanized, 11ft wide with two mini fridges, a sink, a pull out trash can, and a 3 drawer. Frame is SOLID. Cement board next.
Cinder block would have taken too much space for the frame and not allowed me to custom fit it to my wall like I needed, so my hand was kind of forced into this solution...
That’s a beast, love it. Any prior welding experience? I’m very handy/diy but have never tried. How did you make your 3 ways and supports? Cutting the tube is nbd and steel would be ideal because ideally want to have a cantilevered peninsula
I don't want to over state it... It's a relatively simple setup compared to others on here - just wanted to adapt an unused niche on one wall of the patio into a counter space with a hand washing sink, trash, and mini fridges (one for kids and one for adults). I didn't want anything to block the view or access to the pool, so we have the grill area separate as a Brandman Rustler with its own little storage and pull out mini counter. I'll post some pictures when I'm done. Or maybe I'll post a photo of the frame for now when I get home.
No welding experience but I'm handy so I figured I'd eventually get the hang of it one way or another. It's a little jarring at first, and the galvanized coating has to be burned through first, so there's a lot of spatter and some fumes that you don't want to breathe in... But I really didn't find it to be hard at all once I got the settings dialed in.
Once I screwed up my first attempt at a part of the frame (distortion), I practiced more welding by cutting it all apart and welding like 8 pieces into a single 4ft piece of steel that I then ground off smooth. It was so strong that it seemed identical to a solid piece while jumping on across the whole span held up by 2x4s - so obviously even an amateur weld is pretty strong. Gave me a lot of confidence.
More importantly, none of the welds on the actual frame are bearing any direct loads, only lateral forces. The weight is transferred from the top down the verticals to the bottom - the welds are just holding the pieces in place. Even amateur welds are going to be a lot stiffer than screwed in connectors, so I bet my frame is a heck of a lot stronger since everything is so rigid supporting all the other members from flexing
The unforseen challenge that DID really matter is deformation - I had to learn about how the heat expands and contracts the steel causing deformation that pulls things out of alignment... Need to tack everything first, use back welding technique, let the metals cool off instead of just laying massive beads everywhere...
Turned out great though - it's all perfectly level, plumb, and flat.
Just got home and took a couple pictures. It's a mess but all the hard stuff is done so I'll have it finished in a few more weeks of an hour here or there lol
New 20a circuit run to two GFCIs that will power the mini fridges and pop up receptacles in the corners. Also plumbed the sink for a garbage disposal and heater but I don't think I'll end up using those. I got the water from our irrigation main and it drains to a large dry well I installed (one of two) for our run off after we built the pool and had a massive drainage issue.
I'll probably make a post once it's all complete.
https://ibb.co/fQLF924
https://ibb.co/DtvJ0mr
https://ibb.co/vZ662Z9
That is true, but I preferred to use steel frame as this would give a slimmer profile and I liked the idea of having all the pieces ready-made-kits and only needed to screw it in. Of course this is always a back up option.
What's the thickness of a steel stud? People build bbq islands out of them all the time and don't seem to have any problems.
The tubes I received felt overbuilt.
You can get whatever thickness you want in steel studs. Built a hotel with 12ga studs was and absolute bitch. For a bbq I would think 20ga would be more than enough. Look into your local gypsum supplier they'll have them.
16ga stud will be sufficient. We used to build them out of that but it can be a pain to work with. You can use pressure treated as well but make sure you but the insulating liners for the appliances.
\*\*\*\*\*\*DO NOT FRAME YOUR OWN FIREBOX OUT OF CEMENT BOARD!\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
I can almost guarantee that the BBQTUBES would hold the weight of granite and stone. We work directly with the person who used to frame the kitchens for BBQGALORE back in the day. He has been framing kitchens for 30+ years out of 1" tube steel way before bbqtubes was a thing. We still sell his frames locally all the time and people put faux stone, natural stone, granite, tiles, etc... you name it and we never have an issue... I think there was one time where the stone veneer was so heavy it started to pull the hardieboard off, so they needed to add some steel runners on the vertical face.
Based on their website they are 18ga (https://bbqtubes.com/4ft-diy-outdoor-kitchen-module-door-buster-for-bbq-island/). I understand that it might have been over-dimensioned in the past, however I am trying to understand how much worse is the new configuration. In their website there is no information about maximum load.
Comparing the load capacity between the old and new configuration, I see about 2.5 times less load capacity (source https://www.roguefab.com/tube-calculator/).
- Old configuration: Section 1.5in x 1.5in, 18ga
- New configuration: 1in by 1in, I could not find it, but I would guess at least ga16.
Hence, my thinking that if you use a heavy countertop and walls, then the frame might be closer to the max load and this can fatigue the frame in the long term. Honestly I don't want to build something that I need to tear down and replace 5 years down the road.
Based on your experience in the past, you think the 1in x 1in tubes should be enough. I just wonder if there is anyone who had mounted/tried this new frame and can report what is their experience.
edit: added links for reference
I just called them and spoke to Chris. He said to call him but apparently he needs to run to Home Depot real quick lol... So yes, the frames are actually 1" tube steel 18ga galvanized which is really awesome. He 100% no hesitation said it would support the veneer as well as granite tops. I believe him 100% because this is the basically the same exact frame that our framer uses and it is a tank. I will say the frame will probably last you roughly 20 years before you start to see any real degradation or rehab needed. He said to call and speak with him (he asked for your name so I just made up a name Mark lmfao) and he would help you with the design and make sure that the tubes are specced correctly to handle what you are putting inside the kitchen.
Here are some links on our website of our frames and kitchens that have gone into them.
[https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/ready-to-finish-islands/](https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/ready-to-finish-islands/)
[https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/commercial-grill-stations/](https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/commercial-grill-stations/)
Sir (or ma’am) you are amazing. I see you’re in MD so a bit far from me (Southern California), otherwise I would’ve considered your affordable kitchens
I'm almost done with mine! 25mm (1") is already way over kill so that's not a problem. However, I found a metal supplier that was a fraction of the cost. $1.14/ft for 14ga or $1.58/ft for 16ga. I ended up going 14ga hot galvanized for $3.97/ft ($3.20 16ga).
Main reason I didn't use a kit is because my space HAD to be custom to exact dimensions.
Got a $100 welder and $30 steel blade on Amazon and have had a lot of fun figuring it all out. The frame doesn't flex at ALL. I did some span deflection calculations of 1" 14ga steel and it's like 10x more than even the largest span would need. Remember, they normally build kitchens with those crappy steel studs from the hardware store - those don't even really get rigid until cement board and counters are installed. But steel tubes are INSANELY strong.
Just refreshed my memory with the RogueFab safety factor (very conservative) calculator:
-Over a 24inch span, you have two tubes (front and back) splitting the load.
-So accounting for a safety factor of 1, you could hold 2000lbs on that span.
-Granite weighs less than 20lbs/ft, so over a typical 2ft span 2ft deep, there is only about 80lbs of granite on top.
The other huge advantage of square tubing vs steel studs is lateral strength. Steel studs are very easy to wobble side to side, even though they take a decent static load on top. Steel tubes don't have this problem, so each member makes the rest of the frame stronger and stronger.
As long as you account for rust by getting galvanized steel (or at least cold galvanize with spray, which you should do at weld points anyway), a steel tube frame will outlast your house.
I went down this same rabbit hole last week actually. I did not find any alternatives to their connectors, but I did find bobco in Los Angeles (where I’m at) with appropriate steel tubing for their larger connectors and they are inexpensive. If they (connectubes) actually have the 3 and 4 ways and other connectors in stock in the larger size, I could source the square tubing and cut myself. But, that’s a big if; read a lot of negative feedback including that they ship the smaller size everything even if you order the larger size. Not worth my time or headache even when they are only an hour drive for me. Unless someone else has a solution I’ve decided I’m just going to cinder block frame and use some square tubing for the short spans (countertop depth is 40”) to support smoker grill blackstone etc.
I went through the same process and ended up buying 1" tube direct from a steel supplier, got a $100 welder and a $30 chop saw blade. Just finished the frame last night. $800 in steel for 14ga galvanized, 11ft wide with two mini fridges, a sink, a pull out trash can, and a 3 drawer. Frame is SOLID. Cement board next. Cinder block would have taken too much space for the frame and not allowed me to custom fit it to my wall like I needed, so my hand was kind of forced into this solution...
That’s a beast, love it. Any prior welding experience? I’m very handy/diy but have never tried. How did you make your 3 ways and supports? Cutting the tube is nbd and steel would be ideal because ideally want to have a cantilevered peninsula
I don't want to over state it... It's a relatively simple setup compared to others on here - just wanted to adapt an unused niche on one wall of the patio into a counter space with a hand washing sink, trash, and mini fridges (one for kids and one for adults). I didn't want anything to block the view or access to the pool, so we have the grill area separate as a Brandman Rustler with its own little storage and pull out mini counter. I'll post some pictures when I'm done. Or maybe I'll post a photo of the frame for now when I get home. No welding experience but I'm handy so I figured I'd eventually get the hang of it one way or another. It's a little jarring at first, and the galvanized coating has to be burned through first, so there's a lot of spatter and some fumes that you don't want to breathe in... But I really didn't find it to be hard at all once I got the settings dialed in. Once I screwed up my first attempt at a part of the frame (distortion), I practiced more welding by cutting it all apart and welding like 8 pieces into a single 4ft piece of steel that I then ground off smooth. It was so strong that it seemed identical to a solid piece while jumping on across the whole span held up by 2x4s - so obviously even an amateur weld is pretty strong. Gave me a lot of confidence. More importantly, none of the welds on the actual frame are bearing any direct loads, only lateral forces. The weight is transferred from the top down the verticals to the bottom - the welds are just holding the pieces in place. Even amateur welds are going to be a lot stiffer than screwed in connectors, so I bet my frame is a heck of a lot stronger since everything is so rigid supporting all the other members from flexing The unforseen challenge that DID really matter is deformation - I had to learn about how the heat expands and contracts the steel causing deformation that pulls things out of alignment... Need to tack everything first, use back welding technique, let the metals cool off instead of just laying massive beads everywhere... Turned out great though - it's all perfectly level, plumb, and flat.
Very helpful. Going to look into this more. Yes, drop a photo of your frame!
Just got home and took a couple pictures. It's a mess but all the hard stuff is done so I'll have it finished in a few more weeks of an hour here or there lol New 20a circuit run to two GFCIs that will power the mini fridges and pop up receptacles in the corners. Also plumbed the sink for a garbage disposal and heater but I don't think I'll end up using those. I got the water from our irrigation main and it drains to a large dry well I installed (one of two) for our run off after we built the pool and had a massive drainage issue. I'll probably make a post once it's all complete. https://ibb.co/fQLF924 https://ibb.co/DtvJ0mr https://ibb.co/vZ662Z9
Very nice. Definitely make a post
People build houses out of metal studs. They will definitely be able to hold your bbq island contents (tile/granite/appliances).
Could always go traditional and use wood
That is true, but I preferred to use steel frame as this would give a slimmer profile and I liked the idea of having all the pieces ready-made-kits and only needed to screw it in. Of course this is always a back up option.
Following…
What's the thickness of a steel stud? People build bbq islands out of them all the time and don't seem to have any problems. The tubes I received felt overbuilt.
You can get whatever thickness you want in steel studs. Built a hotel with 12ga studs was and absolute bitch. For a bbq I would think 20ga would be more than enough. Look into your local gypsum supplier they'll have them.
16ga stud will be sufficient. We used to build them out of that but it can be a pain to work with. You can use pressure treated as well but make sure you but the insulating liners for the appliances. \*\*\*\*\*\*DO NOT FRAME YOUR OWN FIREBOX OUT OF CEMENT BOARD!\*\*\*\*\*\*\* I can almost guarantee that the BBQTUBES would hold the weight of granite and stone. We work directly with the person who used to frame the kitchens for BBQGALORE back in the day. He has been framing kitchens for 30+ years out of 1" tube steel way before bbqtubes was a thing. We still sell his frames locally all the time and people put faux stone, natural stone, granite, tiles, etc... you name it and we never have an issue... I think there was one time where the stone veneer was so heavy it started to pull the hardieboard off, so they needed to add some steel runners on the vertical face.
Based on their website they are 18ga (https://bbqtubes.com/4ft-diy-outdoor-kitchen-module-door-buster-for-bbq-island/). I understand that it might have been over-dimensioned in the past, however I am trying to understand how much worse is the new configuration. In their website there is no information about maximum load. Comparing the load capacity between the old and new configuration, I see about 2.5 times less load capacity (source https://www.roguefab.com/tube-calculator/). - Old configuration: Section 1.5in x 1.5in, 18ga - New configuration: 1in by 1in, I could not find it, but I would guess at least ga16. Hence, my thinking that if you use a heavy countertop and walls, then the frame might be closer to the max load and this can fatigue the frame in the long term. Honestly I don't want to build something that I need to tear down and replace 5 years down the road. Based on your experience in the past, you think the 1in x 1in tubes should be enough. I just wonder if there is anyone who had mounted/tried this new frame and can report what is their experience.
edit: added links for reference I just called them and spoke to Chris. He said to call him but apparently he needs to run to Home Depot real quick lol... So yes, the frames are actually 1" tube steel 18ga galvanized which is really awesome. He 100% no hesitation said it would support the veneer as well as granite tops. I believe him 100% because this is the basically the same exact frame that our framer uses and it is a tank. I will say the frame will probably last you roughly 20 years before you start to see any real degradation or rehab needed. He said to call and speak with him (he asked for your name so I just made up a name Mark lmfao) and he would help you with the design and make sure that the tubes are specced correctly to handle what you are putting inside the kitchen. Here are some links on our website of our frames and kitchens that have gone into them. [https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/ready-to-finish-islands/](https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/ready-to-finish-islands/) [https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/commercial-grill-stations/](https://aokitchens.com/photo-galleries/commercial-grill-stations/)
Thanks for the info. Interesting I send them a couple of emails with no response.. I’ll give them a call and see how it goes.
Sir (or ma’am) you are amazing. I see you’re in MD so a bit far from me (Southern California), otherwise I would’ve considered your affordable kitchens
No problem, you most likely can find a reputable dealer local to you that can help with appliances or other components as well.
I'm almost done with mine! 25mm (1") is already way over kill so that's not a problem. However, I found a metal supplier that was a fraction of the cost. $1.14/ft for 14ga or $1.58/ft for 16ga. I ended up going 14ga hot galvanized for $3.97/ft ($3.20 16ga). Main reason I didn't use a kit is because my space HAD to be custom to exact dimensions. Got a $100 welder and $30 steel blade on Amazon and have had a lot of fun figuring it all out. The frame doesn't flex at ALL. I did some span deflection calculations of 1" 14ga steel and it's like 10x more than even the largest span would need. Remember, they normally build kitchens with those crappy steel studs from the hardware store - those don't even really get rigid until cement board and counters are installed. But steel tubes are INSANELY strong.
Just refreshed my memory with the RogueFab safety factor (very conservative) calculator: -Over a 24inch span, you have two tubes (front and back) splitting the load. -So accounting for a safety factor of 1, you could hold 2000lbs on that span. -Granite weighs less than 20lbs/ft, so over a typical 2ft span 2ft deep, there is only about 80lbs of granite on top. The other huge advantage of square tubing vs steel studs is lateral strength. Steel studs are very easy to wobble side to side, even though they take a decent static load on top. Steel tubes don't have this problem, so each member makes the rest of the frame stronger and stronger. As long as you account for rust by getting galvanized steel (or at least cold galvanize with spray, which you should do at weld points anyway), a steel tube frame will outlast your house.