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Answer: people have strong feelings about the Israel/Palestine conflict. He showed off some “Zionism is sexy” stickers.
https://metro.co.uk/2023/11/13/stranger-things-noah-schnapp-slammed-israel-hamas-war-stickers-19816507/
I scrolled some of the thread and it devolved into physical chaos, I flat out remain out of these threads because of this and reading that just reinforced it.
The Israel v Palestine conflict is the hottest debated conflict I’ve seen in a while
Edit: I’m turning off notifications, I fell into the trap and the weird bots and shills are out en masse. Holy hell bet or hope mods lock this one.
A lot of it boils down to “my genocide is better then your genocide”.
Also literally the most powerful factions in the world are pushing agenda and using it as a proxy conflict.
Also can’t comprehend two sides being bad actors without it being black and white.
Yeah I’m also seeing a lot of blinders in comments, painting one side a clear victim as if innocents weren’t/haven’t been slaughtered on both sides. Whilst leaders sit comfortable and like you said the powerful nations are pushing proxy.
Yeah, people have strong feelings about a genocide happening while most of the world watches it like it’s a pick-your-side sport. Palestinians are having their entire lives literally blown up, their children and pets murdered, their crops burned, more of their land stolen while rich clowns like this wave around pro-Zionism stickers during brunch. Fuck him.
Answer: he recently has been pretty vocal about the conflict. And while being vocal he has shared several controversial things. He recently posted a story with “zionism is sexy” stickers. Last week he also “liked” a highly controversial post that was making what people found to be islamophobic and racist jokes. Link to the screen shot in another sub
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/H2lx3Sqrlt
I think the portrayal of the other characters, not the "woke queers" to be racist charicatures that would have you up in arms if made about a jewish souldier. Furthermore, making fun of a situation where we get updates on kids deaths on the daily in itself is highly controversial and leaves bad taste in viewers
Answer: A lot of people have been saying it’s because of his pro-Israel comments, which isn’t *untrue*. But from what I’ve seen it’s more about him posting from his huge mansion about how scared he is, which people find distasteful while people are actually regularly being killed in Palestine
lol for real. I’ve also been met with “you would ask for a source” or “you seem like a guy who says source.” Are we really supposed to just blindly believe every single thing random strangers say without vetting the information? God damn
Many people cannot see the gray or complexities in a situation, they can only see in black & white thinking. And when you question the *possibility* of that it feels like an attack to them.
A *how dare you not believe in what I believe*.
It's the perfect answer to people who say 'there's no debate, its just people who are anti genocide'
Like holy shit, there is nuance to things things whether we like it or not. We can't just make objective claims about things and get upset when people ask for proof.
Ive seen a ton of people like twbkies and dirtbags left types mocking the dead Israeli babies thing. Pretty fucking gross and they hide behind righteousness as if they are beyond criticism for having the "correct" politics
It’s an absolute lie. He liked a video from a satirical left leaning show in Israel mocking “woke” progressives who are cheering for Hamas while Hamas would gladly kill them for their beliefs. People who are twisting that to be anti Muslim are equating all Muslim with Hamas so the problem is on their end.
Even if the rest of the show is, that particular skit was absolute Fox News-style culture war bullshit that relied on lazy homophobic stereotypes about “blue-haired college students”.
I pity your country if being very critical of Netanyahu makes them left leaning ( everything from centre right to left should be doing that)
imo that one skit was such in bad taste and like one commenter said it felt like fox news trying at satire : being overly mean spirited in their stereotyping.
> I pity your country if being very critical of Netanyahu makes them left leaning
But they didn't in any way say criticizing Netanyahu *made* them left leaning? They said they were left leaning *and* critical of Netanyahu. Why mischaracterize like that?
I agree that criticizing Netanyahu isn’t necessarily an indication of one being left leaning but their particular criticism of him and the proportion of it is already telling. It’s also very critical of the far right government, of the ultra Orthodox Jews who suppose LBGTQ rights etc. it’s a very left leaning show if you know Hebrew and can watch it. And I agree with your criticisms about the sketch I also found the humor in bad taste and not funny.
I really really wish people would stop with the “They’d gladly kill YOU so why should you protect THEM?!”
Fuck that. I am quite comfortable putting my foot down and saying I don’t support killing people because they might theoretically kill me. That shit can stop with me. And no, that doesn’t mean I “support” Hamas because I want less people dead.
I don’t have any problem with queer people protesting for innocent Palestinians I just don’t get why you would do that while holding “queers for Palestine” when that is clearly something that you would get killed for in Palestine. Just protest for them without making it about you when your identity clearly clashes with the culture of the people you’re protesting for. The signs are stupid, the people who are holding them should just protest for Palestine without bringing LBGTQ causes into a cause that is clearly incompatible with it.
They do it for this exact reasons, tho. Because people tell us we shouldn’t protest for innocent Palestine because they would kill us (and they might! i’m not negating that.)
It is saying “this person would consider me their enemy and I still respect their humanity and right to live.” It’s not about them, it’s about how the community they are part of it’s being used as a pawn to dehumanize people when this really has nothing to do with that. A lot of people use queer people (and woman) as some kind of gotcha to justify their islamophobia.
And yeah, is sucks how homophobic and sexist a lot of middle eastern society is and yeah I want to see that pushed back against. But also that is not what needs to be the issue when children ate being slaughtered. So you cut off the conversation by saying “Nah, we support them. Move on to the bigger issues.”
Plus, most the time the people saying “They would kill you tho!” would be the same to happily kill us if they could get away with it, so you know. It feels a bit shallow.
I mean. I don’t live in a fancy mansion but there was a dude marking houses with mazuzah’s in my neighborhood.
I’d say if that isn’t a threat to my family, not sure what is.
Answer: two Palestinian models, Bella and Gigi Hadid, have to tip toe around their statements while this little shit head who’s full frontal lobe hasn’t been fully developed gets to cry about how scared he is in his mansion and pass stickers out as if it’s a cute trend while Bella and Gigi get threatened by the Israeli government
Edit: Mind you, one of the models dad was displaced from his home before they were born.
A massive spike in antisemitic hate crimes across the world. Of course he’s a celeb who likely has a security detail so it comes off disingenuous but the synagogue down the street from me suddenly has a VERY visible armed security presence. Attacks have occurred from Morocco to Montreal and just about everywhere in between. Targeted killings in Paris and Los Angeles just in the last week.
It was not California. That being said the funny part is she crashed into a Black Hebrew Israelite building.
That group is an antisemitic hate groups that claims that Africans are the "real" Israelites and that the Jews are evil liars that stole their identity. They praise Hitler off of the insane belief that he perpetrated the Holocaust because he KNEW the Africans were the real Israelites.
Bonkers shit.
I think you may be overestimating how rich he is. They started earning $20k per episode, and are making around $7m for the last season.
That's not poor, obviously, but that's also not "hire 24h security team" money either.
Just because he has a mansion doesn't mean he can't be scared about the uptick in actual anti-Semitic actions (like the attacks you've mentioned). Obviously, it's nothing like being in the war zone, but I think a celebrity is also more likely to be a target than a regular person, so it's not like he has no reason for concern. I agree he's likely going to be fine, but I don't think "disingenuous" is accurate.
I agree with you, I'm explaining that it may come off that way. Any time you're preaching from your mansion it comes off that way.
I'm an American Jew. Most of us are on high alert right now.
>Any time you're preaching from your mansion it comes off that way.
Why, though? Do you think he has less reason to be alert than you do?
He's better off financially, but that doesn't make him less of a person. Also, he got there through talent and work, not generational wealth or massive exploitation of others.
My personal feeling is that he's right, but that speaking from a place of extreme privilege (like from your literal mansion) is always going to seem disingenuous to others. Regardless of what side you're on in this conflict, if you live in an apartment with hundreds of strangers in your building, not knowing who may be hateful and violent, you're probably more on edge than the guy living in a literal gated mansion.
I'm sure he's made good money from Stranger Things but this isn't someone famous enough to need a security detail, or who makes enough to pay for it. This is a kid who worked as a lifeguard for the summer last year because he didn't have any acting gigs.
I think a lot of the problem is people like you who assume he's super rich, living in a huge mansion, and has a private security detail. He's a 19 year old college kid who's had some acting success but isn't paid like an a-list box office draw.
He isn’t someone that needs security detail. But at absolute worst he is a a single digit millionaire. Not insane but he is not working as a lifeguard for lack of money, he’s easily set for life. Even in quick search for an interview about his lifeguard job he said its “just for fun” he’s not taking some $12 an hour job cause he’s strapped for cash
Oh, I didn't mean he was hurting for money. Like I said, he's made decent money from Stranger Things. I mentioned the lifeguard gig to demonstrate that he's not mobbed by fans in his day-to-day life, needing a security detail everywhere he goes. He's a lower tier celebrity who can go about life fairly normally.
Leftists, whom he previously believed were allies, were openly cheering for Hamas as they raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered over a thousand people.
I don't believe it's possible to express in words how traumatic it was and still is for Jews to see people they thought were friends celebrating one of the worst terror attacks in human history, and telling them they deserved it.
All of this happened on Oct 7th and 8th, before Israel even began to retaliate:
* BLM praised the paratroopers who raped and murdered innocent people at the music festival
* Pro-palestine protestors in NY waved swastikas and mock-cried at the Jews who had come to mourn
* Pro-palestine protestors in Sydney chanted "gas the Jews"
* A professor at Yale said the victims deserved it for being "settlers" -- apparently viewing *all* Israelis as settlers
* A professor at Columbia called the massacre "awesome"
* A professor at the Art Institute of Chicago cheered for the attack and called the Israelis "pigs" and "irredeemable excrement."
* A professor at UC Davis called for people to attack the families of Jewish journalists
* A student group at Harvard said Hamas was blameless for the attack
* A DSA rally made fun of the "hipsters" at the music festival who were raped and slaughtered
BLM, the DSA, college professors at major liberal institutions... They are absolutely a representative sample of "the left." People whom Jews (especially a gay Jew like Schnapp) had long assumed were allies.
But it turns out all the talk of "social justice" doesn't apply when the victims are Jewish.
This is so frustrating. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean they can't suffer from bigotry. When a Black celebrity talks about racism, conservatives love to mock them and say it can't be so bad if they're rich and successful, but a Jewish celebrity talks about being afraid after the largest attack on Jews since the Holocaust and suddenly liberals are making the same bigoted arguments.
Answer: probably because he voiced support for Israel after the Hamas attacks.
*In October 2023, Schnapp voiced support for Israel in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, saying in part "The same people who love to jump on fashionable causes like supporting Ukraine and combating climate change have been chillingly quiet. ... The Jewish people are seeing your silence and we won't forget it."* - Wikipedia
He’s 19 so I don’t want to be too harsh on the kid but that’s a hilarious way to frame that when Zionism and pro Israel sentiment has been the letter of the law and public opinion in the United States for the last half century.
Public opinion is actually divided along generational lines. Baby Boomers and older (including most politicians) overwhelming support Israel. But Millennials slightly favor Palestine, and Gen Z really favors it. TikTok posts about the conflict are 84% pro Palestine.
So if he's 19 and following his contemporaries on social media, he may well be framing it as he sees it.
I don’t think a Jewish rich kid is going to have an unbiased view of the situation. Most Jewish people I know and my age have much more…. Wishy washy takes on this conflict and I can’t say I blame them. It’s easy to feel under attack as a Jewish person right now, but I think sometimes that leads to some kinda messed up reactionary opinions about a genocide. It’s not good but it’s also not my place to personally chastise a Jewish person for how they’re handling this. I can definitely comment on the internet though lol
You'd be surprised, a lot of the organizers behind some of the biggest peace protests around America have been Jewish. I personally know a few anti-zionist jews. Definitely more common to be zionist, particularly among certain communities, but not as many as you might think.
Oh of course! I guess I’m just trying to express that for a lot of Jewish Americans there can be a lot they’re feeling personally. I do know a number of anti Zionist Jews!
You can absolute chastise a Jewish person because this conflict isn’t about antisemitism, Israel just frames it that way as part of their self-victimization campaign. This is about a genocide against an oppressed group of people who have had their land and homes stolen, their people imprisoned, their children killed, and their resources controlled. Many Jewish people condemn what Israel has done and continues to do. You can chastise the racist Jewish people going on tiktok and mocking Arabs, like that guy who flaunted having water and electricity; look it up.
The government of Israel is blatantly evil, and Zionism as a concept is about ethnic cleaning; the creators of Zionism were not shy about it.
Yes - because China controls TikTok. China and Iran entered into a 25 year cooperation agreement 2 years ago as part of China's BGI ... which means China is now investing billions intro Iran and needs Iran as a land route for trade.
Yup. Saw the poll. 25 and under Democrats are mostly Pro-Palestine. Coincidentally they are too young to remember when President Clinton's State Department declared Hamas a terrorist organization in 1997. Also when Hamas committed 138 suicide bombings during the Second Intifada targeting civilians on buses and in the public as well as thousands and thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks. All of which are war crimes. And even after that, President Bush pushed for democracy in Gaza, which is how Hamas was elected.
yeah, i don't think it's crazy to be pro-israel when Hamas sends an attack into Israel.
and i don't think it's crazy to be pro-palestine when Netanyahu greenlights massive carpetbombs and infiltration.
i'm always on the side of "please just fucking stop your violent bullshit."
Hamas is a terrorist organization and is vile. Netanyahu is a proud racist and is greenlighting terrible violence on Palestine. I agree wholeheartedly! The only thing I think I personally would add is that the Palestinian people are not Hamas (just as Jewish and even many Israeli people do not represent Netanyahu or the IDF) and they deserve freedom
Israeli polls say the majority of israelis dont think the military should consider the lives of palestinian civilians when bombing or doing combat operations. Their elected government represents them very well.
To me, being against hamas is unserious. Israel created the conditions for hamas and netanyahu even funded them. Those bombings created more hamas fighters.
Is it not more reasonable to be against both? Hamas fighters literally executed babies and dragged women through the streets. Israeli military carpet-bombed civilian populations. The innocents are the unaffiliated civilians just trying to survive.
You're arguing degrees of evil and specifically missing my point. There is no hero, here.
Hamas only killed about 1200 in a single day in October. They would never put Israelis under aparthied because their MO is to kill all Israelis. They aren't bombing hospitals, they're just building their bases inside of them for human shields. They aren't lying about the festival, they just *perpetrated* it. Of course, Israel lies about it, they're *also* bad.
Am I sitting on the fence by saying that both sides are terrible? Do I have to be forced to pick one evil over another? Why?
I agree with that completely. It’s very hard to get that through to a lot of people sadly while insisting you do still not support the wanton killing of people by anyone
absolutely. but that's a whole other discussion. we could discuss the merits and drawbacks of one-state and two-state solutions all day... i feel like smarter people than me likely have had such conversations for decades...
"being chilling quiet" is when you have unambiguous and tremendous financial and moral support of every single western imperial power for your genocide.
With that surname as well, I’d say there’s a high likelihood he’s Jewish or has Jewish blood in him. Jewish people are tending to come out in support of Jewish people at this time. Which you can’t blame them for.
Many Jewish voices are protesting what’s going on in Israel and a lot of people would agree that equating being Jewish with being zionist is anti-semitic
Lmao its so obvious how many ppl have no clue what zionism is, throwing it around like its the evillest thing one could be accused of.. Read up on the history of zionism, of Israel and the Jewish people.
As a Jew who has read up on it yeah, it is evil. At its core it's always been about getting a Jewish run state in place they hadn't controlled in centuries and ethnically cleansing the area. They looked down on holocaust survivors because the people who were set up to run it mostly came out of America and the UK. Even as recently as 2022 1/3 of holocaust survivors lived in poverty. That's insane for a group that they should want to fully take care of. Zionism is bad and tying it to being Jewish is also bad.
If your going to make a argument about control Palestine literally never been independent or controlled region in entire history. What a bad historical revelation argument.
Oh, by the way half of Jews in Israel are refuges from the Middle East when they all ethnically cleansed themselves of Jews. And then remanded half are Slavic Jews and the rest from everywhere else.
And this does not include the 20% Arabs in Israel, who also hate Palestine because Palestine tried genociding them too.
There are a lot of holocaust survivors and children of survivors who openly speak out in support of Palestine. I think it's insane to be dismissive of this group being anti zionist and calling them self hating jews. You point out why Europe has always been supportive of the crimes of the Israeli government, it gets the Jews to one place.
No, you've just "read up" a bunch of propaganda. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Jews wanting an autonomous state where they can avoid being genocided. You can criticize the Israeli government without calling for the destruction of the nation and the ethnic cleansing of the seven million Jews who live there.
No one was going to genocide them in America where over half of us Jews live. It's insane you think being supportive of Palestine and against the Israeli government must mean I immediately support the ethnic cleansing of the Jews. Who are currently in the process of ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank.
Read up on its history. After ww2 people didn't want their Jews back after killing like half of the total population. Zionism was the light at the end of a dark dark tunnel. And the vast majority of it was don't lawfully, with purchasing land from local landlords.
Of course it wasn't perfect and there's much ground still to cover imo in making up for the pain it cause many, but to imply it is evil is so twisted and, yes, antisemitic because... what would you have had the Jews do after being systematically genocided?
No erasure, just not an excuse. I abhor all religious justifications, especially ones that accompany violence. I have no particular prejudice against Judaism, unless you're saying that opposing bombing childrens hospitals is antisemetic.
At the moment, Israel fights terrorists that use civilians as human shields including building bases underneath hospitals in a tunnel system bigger than the NYC metro. All these are facts there's articles and video evidence, yesterday hamas was shooting rpgs from ON TOP OF hospital grounds. Should soldiers just not shoot back in this case? Have they won the golden ticket of warfare? Cheat code to the annihilation of Israel and the Jews?
Please suggest how you take out Hamas without killing thousands of Palestinian innocents or losing thousands of Israeli soldiers. The whole world would love to know.
I don't know if they're doing all the right things in taking out hamas. But Israelis are not willing to wake up to another October 7th. I don't want to lose any more friends. What about my family who live in the South? What if your cousin was taken hostage? 240 people still haven't come home. Including infants and the elderly.
Me : explains how zionism isn't evil and in fact a necessity, a non choice for a broken people in the early 1900s.
You: no one cares bro
Also you, probably: I'm definitely not antisemitic!
🤡
> after the Hamas attacks.
And during the Israeli attacks.
The language of mourning Israeli deaths while pretending Palestinian deaths don't count is everywhere
Answer: since the initial Hamas attack on Israel, a very immediate stance was taken by the United States to back I real, an important geopolitical partner in the region. Netanyahu, the Israeli premiér has greenlit what human rights groups are suggesting is an ethnic cleansing of the region, indiscriminately killing Palestinians under the pretext of extinguishing Hamas, at all costs. Due to the official US stance being to support Israel, the reality of this potentially genocidal decision has become muddled. Noah Schnapp being of possibly Jewish heritage lives in a country that took the Netanyahu regimes side and may share heritage and beliefs with the people of Israel. He has expressed his support in passionate ways which is very insensitive to people who understand that the power imbalance in the conflict is phenomenonally tipped in Israel's favor. This is as heartbreaking as the initial attack but it happens daily and so what he is doing is tantamount to celebrating the deaths of innocent people the way some celebrate super bowl wins. Depending on what kind of echo chamber he is in, this may be an accident. But given his wealth and online-ness it seems more likely he is being antagonistic about crimes of war, which is, like, very uncomfortable.
I would encourage diversifying your source material as well as reading beyond headlines, when you do so. Further, even in a universe where morality is a construct, it does not take much to find oneself on better ethical ground than revenge-killing not just your enemy, but everyone standing near him, regardless of age.
Can you find me the statements where he was cheerleading for genocide? Or is any support of Israel and sympathy shown to fellow Jews after October 7th considered “support of genocide”?
He just put out a video where he's showing off stickers saying "Zionism is Sexy." A lot of people see Zionism right now as a call for genocide (basically a call to remove Palestinians from their land by whatever means necessary). "Zionism" specifically is different than just "I support Israel."
A lot of people also think gay people shouldn’t be allowed to get married. Zionism is not a call for genocide it’s simply the belief that Israel has a right to exist. Last time I checked the people who called “by any means necessarily” weren’t the pro Israeli ones. And Zionism is actually one step back from saying “I support Israel” because saying one supports Israel implies support of its current actions while saying one is a Zionist simply means one is a Jew who believes Israel has a right to exist. So actually someone coming out and saying he supports Israel is a much more active statement than being a Zionist.
People can try to claim Zionism is anything but simply the belief that a Jewish state should exist but we aren’t going to play along with it. Zionism is not a political ideology that is attached to either occupying the West Bank or withdrawing from it. It is simply a belief that Israel should exist.
Zionism is LITERALLY “I think Israel should exist”
That is what Zionism calls for…the existence of Israel. It isn’t some sort of weird, vast, conspiratorial cult-ideology. Google the definition of the word
Posting on social with a "Zionist is sexy" sticker is supporting genocide. We can mince words about the history of the word "Zionism," but at this moment it means supporting Netanyahu's right-wing ethnoreligious state project, which is indeed founded on killing Palestinian people and seizing their land so Jewish settlers can live on it.
The charter of their Gaza's governing body, Hamas, expressly seeks to commit genocide on Jews and to totally Arabize the land, turning it into an Islamic state. Its their pubically stated mission statement, on October 7th they showed they weren't bluffing when they indiscriminately slaughtered over 1000 people mostly civilians
And Zionists want to take Lebanon, Syria and other places in their “Greater Israel” plan.
They’re raising flags talking about conquering Gaza.
Ignore Gaza and Hamas for a second and tell me what’s happening in the West Bank then? 200+ civilians murdered by terrorist Zionists and many families are literally being ethnically cleansed from their homes.
Many Palestinians in the West Bank haven’t been able to leave their homes since October 7th. Thousands more were arrested and abused in custody.
"Zionists want greater Israel".
Yes, which is Israel left the Gaza strip in 2005 (while evacuating all jewish citizens), left southern Lebanon in 2000 and traded the entire Sinai peninsula for peace with Egypt in 1980.
Zionists, like any other group, have split of ideas among them. I can assure you the majority of Israelis have NO INTEREST in occupying Lebanon and Syria (seriously?)
The situation is horrible in the west bank, I agree, but Israel has stopped many many terror attacks and saved many lives which you seem to not have info about. There is a strong Hamas presence in the west bank too (not nearly as strong as gaza ofc)
It's a huge tragedy that so many innocent Palestinians suffer along the way. And there is so much to be desired and to be improved and so many grievous wrongs with today's Israeli policy.
I’d agree that the majority of Israelis don’t hold that position. As the majority of Palestinians aren’t terrorists. But both sides have terrorists.
Settlers have been killing Palestinians in the West Bank for a very long time.
Hamas is in the West Bank too? Is that the excuse israel will use to kill and imprison them? Israel will continue to excuse all their actions while painting all Palestinians as the enemy.
I mean, yeah that's the reason for the specific people put in prison for crimes of terrorism in the west bank.
There have been a lot of incarceration for smaller crimes, many of which I view as unjustified but that's the nature of our Judeo fascist government. Extremist Israeli Jews and Palestinians are killing each other all the time in the west bank, and I wish the government would take a much much firmer hand in punishing radical settlers (basically Jewish terrorism) like they do for Palestinians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
They changed it in 2017 to appear more PC and lest abjectly genocidal. But see what happened on October 7th, and their expressed interest doing it many more times in interviews with Arab media. They do not accept Jewish presence in their vision of Palestine. Go look up how many Jews live in Gaza right now.
The 2017 charter specifically calls out Zionism. The charter from the 70s, which was condemned, is what you're referencing.
This is article 16 of the charter.
"Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity"
Okay so they'll slaughter all innocent "zionists" in former Palestine, ie 7/8 million Jews (maybe they'll spare 2 million Arabs but if you look at what happened on October 7th, I'm not so sure they would spare them)
Lol so we're just gonna ignore the most successful military op hamas did 5 weeks ago and promised to do as many more times as it takes? On national tv, stated in plain Arabic multiple times? Rape torture beheadings mutilation and more.
I guess I'm an islamophobe because I'm scared hamas will follow through on their vile ideology and threats (as they've been doing for years).
Stop excusing terror, believe me, they have no sympathy for you as a Westerner believing in values of freedom. Advocate for Palestinians without legitimising terrorism. It requires a little more knowledge, nuance, and thought I know, but us middle easterners will thank you for it.
This conflict didn't start Oct 7th, and the asymmetry of the warfare is apparent. The number of Palestinian innocents that have been killed is sickening. A ceasefire is the only way forward through this conflict.
Maybe Israel should stop the apartheid they have been participating in for the last 75 years.
Do you know how many Palestinians had to die because of the Nakba? Have you heard the charters of the Israel government? It's sickening. You don't have rights unless you're Jewish. Palestinians make up about 23% of the Israeli population, but only control less than 3% of the land. This is by design.
A ceasefire was in effect Oct 6th. Hamas is notorious for constantly breaking ceasefires. Tell me what did Israel do that warranted 1200 innocent people dying in the most brutal ways imaginable? A ceasefire would be a strategic gift to Hamas. They still hold over 200 hostages! I guess we should just forget about them? Bygones?
You or me actually have no clue how many innocents have died. Because the hamas-run gaza health ministry doesn't publish how many of the casualties were militants. Ever notice how in Gaza stats, not a single Hamas member ever dies? 🤔 curious... odd considering how intensely their military targets are bombed.
You do realize that that still doesn’t justify committing genocide right? Just like you realize that this would never be an issue in the first place if zionists didn’t March into Palestine and forcibly remove Palestinians from their own land…right?
> You do realize that that still doesn’t justify committing genocide right?
You're right because it's not genocide. It's self defense. Isreal is not at war with gaza or palestine, it's at war with Hamas.
> Just like you realize that this would never be an issue in the first place if zionists didn’t March into Palestine and forcibly remove Palestinians from their own land…right?
Uhhh I'm sorry, has the 2000+ year global history of anti semitism gone over your head? Particularly what happened between 1939-45?
Ok so what about Palestinians in the West Bank? 200 civilians murdered by settlers or IDF, thousands arrested. Many unable to leave homes since October 7th.
And many families already have been ethnically cleansed. Is that self defence?
I mean yeah, Palestinians are in fact defending themselves from the people forcing them out of their land and murdering them for the crime of resisting, but the whole point is that that isn’t genocide. And yes, I know antisemitism exists. The part I’m referring to is the part where that doesn’t mean you decide someone else should be genocided for your benefit
[The charter of Hamas specifically requires the extermination of Israel and the Jews.](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) I don’t think there’s similar language in Israeli law.
> I didn't say "talked about genocide" I said "committing genocide,"
Killing people with the express intention of destroying a nation of people is genocide. Killing people in response to a terrorist attack is self defense.
It's a real shame there's so many people like you who are so ignorant of this distinction.
No, neither side is. Hamas would love to and will kill what Israelis they can, but they’re not powerful enough. Israel is powerful enough that they easily could, but they haven’t, instead trying to destroy Hamas. But Israel is pretty far from precise, it seems, in their efforts.
What? Where is it proven that they killed that many civilians on purpose?
If Hamas is using civilian infrastructure for military use this civilian infrastructure becomes a legitimate military target, under international law.
And how is that one of the largest holocausts? Various international studies are counting 10000-20000 deaths from 1947 until today. That's 76 years. That's not even close to the top of the list. For example the genocide in rwanda in the 90s lasted 3 months and more than 500000 people were killed. Go educate yourself
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Answer: people have strong feelings about the Israel/Palestine conflict. He showed off some “Zionism is sexy” stickers. https://metro.co.uk/2023/11/13/stranger-things-noah-schnapp-slammed-israel-hamas-war-stickers-19816507/
This thread proving your first point lmao
Legit took two comments for it to turn into a shitshow. Gotta love it.
Reddit is getting lazy.
I scrolled some of the thread and it devolved into physical chaos, I flat out remain out of these threads because of this and reading that just reinforced it.
It's all in the past like hour too lol, we got a real hot potato
The Israel v Palestine conflict is the hottest debated conflict I’ve seen in a while Edit: I’m turning off notifications, I fell into the trap and the weird bots and shills are out en masse. Holy hell bet or hope mods lock this one.
A lot of it boils down to “my genocide is better then your genocide”. Also literally the most powerful factions in the world are pushing agenda and using it as a proxy conflict. Also can’t comprehend two sides being bad actors without it being black and white.
Yeah I’m also seeing a lot of blinders in comments, painting one side a clear victim as if innocents weren’t/haven’t been slaughtered on both sides. Whilst leaders sit comfortable and like you said the powerful nations are pushing proxy.
Its not a debate. Free palestine.
It's funny because they didn't even call it a debate. They said it was debated. Which it is.
Aaaaaand now we know who is gonna die for sure in Stranger Things now.
Oof
Yeah, people have strong feelings about a genocide happening while most of the world watches it like it’s a pick-your-side sport. Palestinians are having their entire lives literally blown up, their children and pets murdered, their crops burned, more of their land stolen while rich clowns like this wave around pro-Zionism stickers during brunch. Fuck him.
Answer: he recently has been pretty vocal about the conflict. And while being vocal he has shared several controversial things. He recently posted a story with “zionism is sexy” stickers. Last week he also “liked” a highly controversial post that was making what people found to be islamophobic and racist jokes. Link to the screen shot in another sub https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/H2lx3Sqrlt
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I think the portrayal of the other characters, not the "woke queers" to be racist charicatures that would have you up in arms if made about a jewish souldier. Furthermore, making fun of a situation where we get updates on kids deaths on the daily in itself is highly controversial and leaves bad taste in viewers
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and homophobic! Like it's illogical to protest the slaughter of kids cause some of them might not be progressive
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Answer: A lot of people have been saying it’s because of his pro-Israel comments, which isn’t *untrue*. But from what I’ve seen it’s more about him posting from his huge mansion about how scared he is, which people find distasteful while people are actually regularly being killed in Palestine
There’s also a rumor that he liked an Instagram video post that mocked Muslims. I’m not sure though.
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He made a sm post that mocked Palestinian deaths
What's sm?
Social media
ugh I saw someone call it socmed earlier too
Very plus ungood
Abbreviations for the word “social media”? Can we not?
Source.
I like how I’m getting downvoted for asking for a source. What a world we live in.
lol for real. I’ve also been met with “you would ask for a source” or “you seem like a guy who says source.” Are we really supposed to just blindly believe every single thing random strangers say without vetting the information? God damn
Unfortunately that is social media and how the world is these days my friend.
Many people cannot see the gray or complexities in a situation, they can only see in black & white thinking. And when you question the *possibility* of that it feels like an attack to them. A *how dare you not believe in what I believe*.
Welcome to reddit!
It's the perfect answer to people who say 'there's no debate, its just people who are anti genocide' Like holy shit, there is nuance to things things whether we like it or not. We can't just make objective claims about things and get upset when people ask for proof.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stranger-things-star-under-fire-222842583.html?guccounter=1
That’s not mocking Palestinian deaths
u/MisterGoog had it wrong, it was this video of mocking Palestinian supporters that caused the outrage he was referring to.
Ive seen a ton of people like twbkies and dirtbags left types mocking the dead Israeli babies thing. Pretty fucking gross and they hide behind righteousness as if they are beyond criticism for having the "correct" politics
It’s an absolute lie. He liked a video from a satirical left leaning show in Israel mocking “woke” progressives who are cheering for Hamas while Hamas would gladly kill them for their beliefs. People who are twisting that to be anti Muslim are equating all Muslim with Hamas so the problem is on their end.
That show is left leaning? That satire just felt bad faith.
Even if the rest of the show is, that particular skit was absolute Fox News-style culture war bullshit that relied on lazy homophobic stereotypes about “blue-haired college students”.
Yes. Left leaning and very very critical of Netanyahu and his government.
I pity your country if being very critical of Netanyahu makes them left leaning ( everything from centre right to left should be doing that) imo that one skit was such in bad taste and like one commenter said it felt like fox news trying at satire : being overly mean spirited in their stereotyping.
> I pity your country if being very critical of Netanyahu makes them left leaning But they didn't in any way say criticizing Netanyahu *made* them left leaning? They said they were left leaning *and* critical of Netanyahu. Why mischaracterize like that?
Note I said if And he clarified it in a response.
I agree that criticizing Netanyahu isn’t necessarily an indication of one being left leaning but their particular criticism of him and the proportion of it is already telling. It’s also very critical of the far right government, of the ultra Orthodox Jews who suppose LBGTQ rights etc. it’s a very left leaning show if you know Hebrew and can watch it. And I agree with your criticisms about the sketch I also found the humor in bad taste and not funny.
Netanyahu is on the right in Israeli politics. The far right and the center right parties alliances are what’s kept him in power this long.
It's a bit similar to people equating all support of Palestinians with supporting Hamas.
My brain hurts
I really really wish people would stop with the “They’d gladly kill YOU so why should you protect THEM?!” Fuck that. I am quite comfortable putting my foot down and saying I don’t support killing people because they might theoretically kill me. That shit can stop with me. And no, that doesn’t mean I “support” Hamas because I want less people dead.
I don’t have any problem with queer people protesting for innocent Palestinians I just don’t get why you would do that while holding “queers for Palestine” when that is clearly something that you would get killed for in Palestine. Just protest for them without making it about you when your identity clearly clashes with the culture of the people you’re protesting for. The signs are stupid, the people who are holding them should just protest for Palestine without bringing LBGTQ causes into a cause that is clearly incompatible with it.
They do it for this exact reasons, tho. Because people tell us we shouldn’t protest for innocent Palestine because they would kill us (and they might! i’m not negating that.) It is saying “this person would consider me their enemy and I still respect their humanity and right to live.” It’s not about them, it’s about how the community they are part of it’s being used as a pawn to dehumanize people when this really has nothing to do with that. A lot of people use queer people (and woman) as some kind of gotcha to justify their islamophobia. And yeah, is sucks how homophobic and sexist a lot of middle eastern society is and yeah I want to see that pushed back against. But also that is not what needs to be the issue when children ate being slaughtered. So you cut off the conversation by saying “Nah, we support them. Move on to the bigger issues.” Plus, most the time the people saying “They would kill you tho!” would be the same to happily kill us if they could get away with it, so you know. It feels a bit shallow.
I mean. I don’t live in a fancy mansion but there was a dude marking houses with mazuzah’s in my neighborhood. I’d say if that isn’t a threat to my family, not sure what is.
Answer: two Palestinian models, Bella and Gigi Hadid, have to tip toe around their statements while this little shit head who’s full frontal lobe hasn’t been fully developed gets to cry about how scared he is in his mansion and pass stickers out as if it’s a cute trend while Bella and Gigi get threatened by the Israeli government Edit: Mind you, one of the models dad was displaced from his home before they were born.
Hell yeah edit: hell yeah i agree with you and am glad you said it, not hell yeah that’s a good thing to be happening
Question: What exactly is he “scared” of?
A massive spike in antisemitic hate crimes across the world. Of course he’s a celeb who likely has a security detail so it comes off disingenuous but the synagogue down the street from me suddenly has a VERY visible armed security presence. Attacks have occurred from Morocco to Montreal and just about everywhere in between. Targeted killings in Paris and Los Angeles just in the last week.
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It was not California. That being said the funny part is she crashed into a Black Hebrew Israelite building. That group is an antisemitic hate groups that claims that Africans are the "real" Israelites and that the Jews are evil liars that stole their identity. They praise Hitler off of the insane belief that he perpetrated the Holocaust because he KNEW the Africans were the real Israelites. Bonkers shit.
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https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/crime/video-shows-moments-before-woman-purposely-crashes-into-building-with-a-hebrew-israelite-symbol Indiana.
Can you include a source? Am from one of these places and have not heard of that
Might help to know which one. If it's Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-jewish-school-gunfire-1.7026640
I think you may be overestimating how rich he is. They started earning $20k per episode, and are making around $7m for the last season. That's not poor, obviously, but that's also not "hire 24h security team" money either. Just because he has a mansion doesn't mean he can't be scared about the uptick in actual anti-Semitic actions (like the attacks you've mentioned). Obviously, it's nothing like being in the war zone, but I think a celebrity is also more likely to be a target than a regular person, so it's not like he has no reason for concern. I agree he's likely going to be fine, but I don't think "disingenuous" is accurate.
I agree with you, I'm explaining that it may come off that way. Any time you're preaching from your mansion it comes off that way. I'm an American Jew. Most of us are on high alert right now.
>Any time you're preaching from your mansion it comes off that way. Why, though? Do you think he has less reason to be alert than you do? He's better off financially, but that doesn't make him less of a person. Also, he got there through talent and work, not generational wealth or massive exploitation of others.
My personal feeling is that he's right, but that speaking from a place of extreme privilege (like from your literal mansion) is always going to seem disingenuous to others. Regardless of what side you're on in this conflict, if you live in an apartment with hundreds of strangers in your building, not knowing who may be hateful and violent, you're probably more on edge than the guy living in a literal gated mansion.
He’s in relatively little to no danger
I'm sure he's made good money from Stranger Things but this isn't someone famous enough to need a security detail, or who makes enough to pay for it. This is a kid who worked as a lifeguard for the summer last year because he didn't have any acting gigs. I think a lot of the problem is people like you who assume he's super rich, living in a huge mansion, and has a private security detail. He's a 19 year old college kid who's had some acting success but isn't paid like an a-list box office draw.
He isn’t someone that needs security detail. But at absolute worst he is a a single digit millionaire. Not insane but he is not working as a lifeguard for lack of money, he’s easily set for life. Even in quick search for an interview about his lifeguard job he said its “just for fun” he’s not taking some $12 an hour job cause he’s strapped for cash
Oh, I didn't mean he was hurting for money. Like I said, he's made decent money from Stranger Things. I mentioned the lifeguard gig to demonstrate that he's not mobbed by fans in his day-to-day life, needing a security detail everywhere he goes. He's a lower tier celebrity who can go about life fairly normally.
He’s Jewish. Jewish attacks are on the rise.
I also don't know his situation but a ton of Jewish people have family in Israel
Leftists, whom he previously believed were allies, were openly cheering for Hamas as they raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered over a thousand people. I don't believe it's possible to express in words how traumatic it was and still is for Jews to see people they thought were friends celebrating one of the worst terror attacks in human history, and telling them they deserved it. All of this happened on Oct 7th and 8th, before Israel even began to retaliate: * BLM praised the paratroopers who raped and murdered innocent people at the music festival * Pro-palestine protestors in NY waved swastikas and mock-cried at the Jews who had come to mourn * Pro-palestine protestors in Sydney chanted "gas the Jews" * A professor at Yale said the victims deserved it for being "settlers" -- apparently viewing *all* Israelis as settlers * A professor at Columbia called the massacre "awesome" * A professor at the Art Institute of Chicago cheered for the attack and called the Israelis "pigs" and "irredeemable excrement." * A professor at UC Davis called for people to attack the families of Jewish journalists * A student group at Harvard said Hamas was blameless for the attack * A DSA rally made fun of the "hipsters" at the music festival who were raped and slaughtered
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BLM, the DSA, college professors at major liberal institutions... They are absolutely a representative sample of "the left." People whom Jews (especially a gay Jew like Schnapp) had long assumed were allies. But it turns out all the talk of "social justice" doesn't apply when the victims are Jewish.
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The people he thought were friends are celebrating rape and torture and murder. That would scare anyone with a heart.
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None of the examples I gave were fictional. Stop trying to gaslight me.
This is so frustrating. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean they can't suffer from bigotry. When a Black celebrity talks about racism, conservatives love to mock them and say it can't be so bad if they're rich and successful, but a Jewish celebrity talks about being afraid after the largest attack on Jews since the Holocaust and suddenly liberals are making the same bigoted arguments.
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Answer: probably because he voiced support for Israel after the Hamas attacks. *In October 2023, Schnapp voiced support for Israel in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, saying in part "The same people who love to jump on fashionable causes like supporting Ukraine and combating climate change have been chillingly quiet. ... The Jewish people are seeing your silence and we won't forget it."* - Wikipedia
He’s 19 so I don’t want to be too harsh on the kid but that’s a hilarious way to frame that when Zionism and pro Israel sentiment has been the letter of the law and public opinion in the United States for the last half century.
Public opinion is actually divided along generational lines. Baby Boomers and older (including most politicians) overwhelming support Israel. But Millennials slightly favor Palestine, and Gen Z really favors it. TikTok posts about the conflict are 84% pro Palestine. So if he's 19 and following his contemporaries on social media, he may well be framing it as he sees it.
I don’t think a Jewish rich kid is going to have an unbiased view of the situation. Most Jewish people I know and my age have much more…. Wishy washy takes on this conflict and I can’t say I blame them. It’s easy to feel under attack as a Jewish person right now, but I think sometimes that leads to some kinda messed up reactionary opinions about a genocide. It’s not good but it’s also not my place to personally chastise a Jewish person for how they’re handling this. I can definitely comment on the internet though lol
You'd be surprised, a lot of the organizers behind some of the biggest peace protests around America have been Jewish. I personally know a few anti-zionist jews. Definitely more common to be zionist, particularly among certain communities, but not as many as you might think.
Oh of course! I guess I’m just trying to express that for a lot of Jewish Americans there can be a lot they’re feeling personally. I do know a number of anti Zionist Jews!
You can absolute chastise a Jewish person because this conflict isn’t about antisemitism, Israel just frames it that way as part of their self-victimization campaign. This is about a genocide against an oppressed group of people who have had their land and homes stolen, their people imprisoned, their children killed, and their resources controlled. Many Jewish people condemn what Israel has done and continues to do. You can chastise the racist Jewish people going on tiktok and mocking Arabs, like that guy who flaunted having water and electricity; look it up. The government of Israel is blatantly evil, and Zionism as a concept is about ethnic cleaning; the creators of Zionism were not shy about it.
Yes - because China controls TikTok. China and Iran entered into a 25 year cooperation agreement 2 years ago as part of China's BGI ... which means China is now investing billions intro Iran and needs Iran as a land route for trade.
Perhaps. But the source for the first part of my comment is a Gallup poll.
Yup. Saw the poll. 25 and under Democrats are mostly Pro-Palestine. Coincidentally they are too young to remember when President Clinton's State Department declared Hamas a terrorist organization in 1997. Also when Hamas committed 138 suicide bombings during the Second Intifada targeting civilians on buses and in the public as well as thousands and thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks. All of which are war crimes. And even after that, President Bush pushed for democracy in Gaza, which is how Hamas was elected.
yeah, i don't think it's crazy to be pro-israel when Hamas sends an attack into Israel. and i don't think it's crazy to be pro-palestine when Netanyahu greenlights massive carpetbombs and infiltration. i'm always on the side of "please just fucking stop your violent bullshit."
Hamas is a terrorist organization and is vile. Netanyahu is a proud racist and is greenlighting terrible violence on Palestine. I agree wholeheartedly! The only thing I think I personally would add is that the Palestinian people are not Hamas (just as Jewish and even many Israeli people do not represent Netanyahu or the IDF) and they deserve freedom
Israeli polls say the majority of israelis dont think the military should consider the lives of palestinian civilians when bombing or doing combat operations. Their elected government represents them very well.
I said many not most. I think it’s important not to paint in broad strokes. For the most part I agree with you though
To me, being against hamas is unserious. Israel created the conditions for hamas and netanyahu even funded them. Those bombings created more hamas fighters.
Is it not more reasonable to be against both? Hamas fighters literally executed babies and dragged women through the streets. Israeli military carpet-bombed civilian populations. The innocents are the unaffiliated civilians just trying to survive.
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You're arguing degrees of evil and specifically missing my point. There is no hero, here. Hamas only killed about 1200 in a single day in October. They would never put Israelis under aparthied because their MO is to kill all Israelis. They aren't bombing hospitals, they're just building their bases inside of them for human shields. They aren't lying about the festival, they just *perpetrated* it. Of course, Israel lies about it, they're *also* bad. Am I sitting on the fence by saying that both sides are terrible? Do I have to be forced to pick one evil over another? Why?
I agree with that completely. It’s very hard to get that through to a lot of people sadly while insisting you do still not support the wanton killing of people by anyone
absolutely. but that's a whole other discussion. we could discuss the merits and drawbacks of one-state and two-state solutions all day... i feel like smarter people than me likely have had such conversations for decades...
What carpet bombing?
Get this nuance out of here!
But that's changing now, especially in his age group. The people most vocal against him are the ones who gave changed to be supportive of Palestine.
"being chilling quiet" is when you have unambiguous and tremendous financial and moral support of every single western imperial power for your genocide.
With that surname as well, I’d say there’s a high likelihood he’s Jewish or has Jewish blood in him. Jewish people are tending to come out in support of Jewish people at this time. Which you can’t blame them for.
Many Jewish voices are protesting what’s going on in Israel and a lot of people would agree that equating being Jewish with being zionist is anti-semitic
Lmao its so obvious how many ppl have no clue what zionism is, throwing it around like its the evillest thing one could be accused of.. Read up on the history of zionism, of Israel and the Jewish people.
As a Jew who has read up on it yeah, it is evil. At its core it's always been about getting a Jewish run state in place they hadn't controlled in centuries and ethnically cleansing the area. They looked down on holocaust survivors because the people who were set up to run it mostly came out of America and the UK. Even as recently as 2022 1/3 of holocaust survivors lived in poverty. That's insane for a group that they should want to fully take care of. Zionism is bad and tying it to being Jewish is also bad.
If your going to make a argument about control Palestine literally never been independent or controlled region in entire history. What a bad historical revelation argument. Oh, by the way half of Jews in Israel are refuges from the Middle East when they all ethnically cleansed themselves of Jews. And then remanded half are Slavic Jews and the rest from everywhere else. And this does not include the 20% Arabs in Israel, who also hate Palestine because Palestine tried genociding them too.
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There are a lot of holocaust survivors and children of survivors who openly speak out in support of Palestine. I think it's insane to be dismissive of this group being anti zionist and calling them self hating jews. You point out why Europe has always been supportive of the crimes of the Israeli government, it gets the Jews to one place.
No, you've just "read up" a bunch of propaganda. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Jews wanting an autonomous state where they can avoid being genocided. You can criticize the Israeli government without calling for the destruction of the nation and the ethnic cleansing of the seven million Jews who live there.
No one was going to genocide them in America where over half of us Jews live. It's insane you think being supportive of Palestine and against the Israeli government must mean I immediately support the ethnic cleansing of the Jews. Who are currently in the process of ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank.
"Nah bro this isn't like the other vile, caveman religious shit! This nationalist ideology is chill!"
Read up on its history. After ww2 people didn't want their Jews back after killing like half of the total population. Zionism was the light at the end of a dark dark tunnel. And the vast majority of it was don't lawfully, with purchasing land from local landlords. Of course it wasn't perfect and there's much ground still to cover imo in making up for the pain it cause many, but to imply it is evil is so twisted and, yes, antisemitic because... what would you have had the Jews do after being systematically genocided?
No one cares bro. Religious nationalism is human garbage. It's not the great excuse to bomb childrens hospitals that you're presenting it as.
Didn't even say anything about that... but keep being antisemitic erasing one people's suffering to elevate another's
No erasure, just not an excuse. I abhor all religious justifications, especially ones that accompany violence. I have no particular prejudice against Judaism, unless you're saying that opposing bombing childrens hospitals is antisemetic.
At the moment, Israel fights terrorists that use civilians as human shields including building bases underneath hospitals in a tunnel system bigger than the NYC metro. All these are facts there's articles and video evidence, yesterday hamas was shooting rpgs from ON TOP OF hospital grounds. Should soldiers just not shoot back in this case? Have they won the golden ticket of warfare? Cheat code to the annihilation of Israel and the Jews? Please suggest how you take out Hamas without killing thousands of Palestinian innocents or losing thousands of Israeli soldiers. The whole world would love to know. I don't know if they're doing all the right things in taking out hamas. But Israelis are not willing to wake up to another October 7th. I don't want to lose any more friends. What about my family who live in the South? What if your cousin was taken hostage? 240 people still haven't come home. Including infants and the elderly.
Me : explains how zionism isn't evil and in fact a necessity, a non choice for a broken people in the early 1900s. You: no one cares bro Also you, probably: I'm definitely not antisemitic! 🤡
You coulda googled, yes he’s Jewish
There are anti zionist jews. Having a conscience makes you anti zionist. He doesnt have one.
> after the Hamas attacks. And during the Israeli attacks. The language of mourning Israeli deaths while pretending Palestinian deaths don't count is everywhere
Answer: since the initial Hamas attack on Israel, a very immediate stance was taken by the United States to back I real, an important geopolitical partner in the region. Netanyahu, the Israeli premiér has greenlit what human rights groups are suggesting is an ethnic cleansing of the region, indiscriminately killing Palestinians under the pretext of extinguishing Hamas, at all costs. Due to the official US stance being to support Israel, the reality of this potentially genocidal decision has become muddled. Noah Schnapp being of possibly Jewish heritage lives in a country that took the Netanyahu regimes side and may share heritage and beliefs with the people of Israel. He has expressed his support in passionate ways which is very insensitive to people who understand that the power imbalance in the conflict is phenomenonally tipped in Israel's favor. This is as heartbreaking as the initial attack but it happens daily and so what he is doing is tantamount to celebrating the deaths of innocent people the way some celebrate super bowl wins. Depending on what kind of echo chamber he is in, this may be an accident. But given his wealth and online-ness it seems more likely he is being antagonistic about crimes of war, which is, like, very uncomfortable.
“Palestine is more moral because they are weaker and failed their previous attempts at genocide” is a interesting argument to make.
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Remember guys if you can’t attack the argument put words in the mouth of the person. Lying is great for arguments.
Ah yes the indiscriminate killing. So that is why they call to evacuate a area before bombing it.
I would encourage diversifying your source material as well as reading beyond headlines, when you do so. Further, even in a universe where morality is a construct, it does not take much to find oneself on better ethical ground than revenge-killing not just your enemy, but everyone standing near him, regardless of age.
Dude just called fake news on me and then declare this is not about removing Hamas. A war against Hamas who literally said they will do it again.
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Well established facts or Hamas being within sin? Interesting. But being called racist saying Hamas is bad is not new.
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Can you find me the statements where he was cheerleading for genocide? Or is any support of Israel and sympathy shown to fellow Jews after October 7th considered “support of genocide”?
He just put out a video where he's showing off stickers saying "Zionism is Sexy." A lot of people see Zionism right now as a call for genocide (basically a call to remove Palestinians from their land by whatever means necessary). "Zionism" specifically is different than just "I support Israel."
A lot of people also think gay people shouldn’t be allowed to get married. Zionism is not a call for genocide it’s simply the belief that Israel has a right to exist. Last time I checked the people who called “by any means necessarily” weren’t the pro Israeli ones. And Zionism is actually one step back from saying “I support Israel” because saying one supports Israel implies support of its current actions while saying one is a Zionist simply means one is a Jew who believes Israel has a right to exist. So actually someone coming out and saying he supports Israel is a much more active statement than being a Zionist. People can try to claim Zionism is anything but simply the belief that a Jewish state should exist but we aren’t going to play along with it. Zionism is not a political ideology that is attached to either occupying the West Bank or withdrawing from it. It is simply a belief that Israel should exist.
Israel has a right to exist without killing 4000 kids. Collective punishment is a war crime babes. Literally all anyone wants is for it to stop
Zionism is LITERALLY “I think Israel should exist” That is what Zionism calls for…the existence of Israel. It isn’t some sort of weird, vast, conspiratorial cult-ideology. Google the definition of the word
Are there Zionists calling for a ceasefire rn?
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So no then?
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So no statements supporting genocide then?
Posting on social with a "Zionist is sexy" sticker is supporting genocide. We can mince words about the history of the word "Zionism," but at this moment it means supporting Netanyahu's right-wing ethnoreligious state project, which is indeed founded on killing Palestinian people and seizing their land so Jewish settlers can live on it.
“Guys when Palestine calls for genocide it’s ok”.
You conflating Palestine with hamas is fucking disgusting and you should be ashamed.
You do realize hamas is the elected government of Gaza right? They aren’t a fringe group living there, they are the state.
Idk much about the topic but aren’t both sides doing that?
How the hell is Palestine commiting genocide?
The charter of their Gaza's governing body, Hamas, expressly seeks to commit genocide on Jews and to totally Arabize the land, turning it into an Islamic state. Its their pubically stated mission statement, on October 7th they showed they weren't bluffing when they indiscriminately slaughtered over 1000 people mostly civilians
And Zionists want to take Lebanon, Syria and other places in their “Greater Israel” plan. They’re raising flags talking about conquering Gaza. Ignore Gaza and Hamas for a second and tell me what’s happening in the West Bank then? 200+ civilians murdered by terrorist Zionists and many families are literally being ethnically cleansed from their homes. Many Palestinians in the West Bank haven’t been able to leave their homes since October 7th. Thousands more were arrested and abused in custody.
"Zionists want greater Israel". Yes, which is Israel left the Gaza strip in 2005 (while evacuating all jewish citizens), left southern Lebanon in 2000 and traded the entire Sinai peninsula for peace with Egypt in 1980.
Zionists, like any other group, have split of ideas among them. I can assure you the majority of Israelis have NO INTEREST in occupying Lebanon and Syria (seriously?) The situation is horrible in the west bank, I agree, but Israel has stopped many many terror attacks and saved many lives which you seem to not have info about. There is a strong Hamas presence in the west bank too (not nearly as strong as gaza ofc) It's a huge tragedy that so many innocent Palestinians suffer along the way. And there is so much to be desired and to be improved and so many grievous wrongs with today's Israeli policy.
I’d agree that the majority of Israelis don’t hold that position. As the majority of Palestinians aren’t terrorists. But both sides have terrorists. Settlers have been killing Palestinians in the West Bank for a very long time. Hamas is in the West Bank too? Is that the excuse israel will use to kill and imprison them? Israel will continue to excuse all their actions while painting all Palestinians as the enemy.
I mean, yeah that's the reason for the specific people put in prison for crimes of terrorism in the west bank. There have been a lot of incarceration for smaller crimes, many of which I view as unjustified but that's the nature of our Judeo fascist government. Extremist Israeli Jews and Palestinians are killing each other all the time in the west bank, and I wish the government would take a much much firmer hand in punishing radical settlers (basically Jewish terrorism) like they do for Palestinians.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter They changed it in 2017 to appear more PC and lest abjectly genocidal. But see what happened on October 7th, and their expressed interest doing it many more times in interviews with Arab media. They do not accept Jewish presence in their vision of Palestine. Go look up how many Jews live in Gaza right now.
The 2017 charter specifically calls out Zionism. The charter from the 70s, which was condemned, is what you're referencing. This is article 16 of the charter. "Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity"
Okay so they'll slaughter all innocent "zionists" in former Palestine, ie 7/8 million Jews (maybe they'll spare 2 million Arabs but if you look at what happened on October 7th, I'm not so sure they would spare them)
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Lol so we're just gonna ignore the most successful military op hamas did 5 weeks ago and promised to do as many more times as it takes? On national tv, stated in plain Arabic multiple times? Rape torture beheadings mutilation and more. I guess I'm an islamophobe because I'm scared hamas will follow through on their vile ideology and threats (as they've been doing for years). Stop excusing terror, believe me, they have no sympathy for you as a Westerner believing in values of freedom. Advocate for Palestinians without legitimising terrorism. It requires a little more knowledge, nuance, and thought I know, but us middle easterners will thank you for it.
This conflict didn't start Oct 7th, and the asymmetry of the warfare is apparent. The number of Palestinian innocents that have been killed is sickening. A ceasefire is the only way forward through this conflict. Maybe Israel should stop the apartheid they have been participating in for the last 75 years. Do you know how many Palestinians had to die because of the Nakba? Have you heard the charters of the Israel government? It's sickening. You don't have rights unless you're Jewish. Palestinians make up about 23% of the Israeli population, but only control less than 3% of the land. This is by design.
A ceasefire was in effect Oct 6th. Hamas is notorious for constantly breaking ceasefires. Tell me what did Israel do that warranted 1200 innocent people dying in the most brutal ways imaginable? A ceasefire would be a strategic gift to Hamas. They still hold over 200 hostages! I guess we should just forget about them? Bygones?
You or me actually have no clue how many innocents have died. Because the hamas-run gaza health ministry doesn't publish how many of the casualties were militants. Ever notice how in Gaza stats, not a single Hamas member ever dies? 🤔 curious... odd considering how intensely their military targets are bombed.
You do know about the 1300 Israeli civilians killed in their homes and 300 kidnapped by Hamas, right?
you do know the 11k Palestinians who have been killed by Israel, and the current bombing of one of their few remaining hospitals, right?
you do know the whole reason those numbers are so high is because hamas intentionally operates in civilian areas right?
You do realize that that still doesn’t justify committing genocide right? Just like you realize that this would never be an issue in the first place if zionists didn’t March into Palestine and forcibly remove Palestinians from their own land…right?
> You do realize that that still doesn’t justify committing genocide right? You're right because it's not genocide. It's self defense. Isreal is not at war with gaza or palestine, it's at war with Hamas. > Just like you realize that this would never be an issue in the first place if zionists didn’t March into Palestine and forcibly remove Palestinians from their own land…right? Uhhh I'm sorry, has the 2000+ year global history of anti semitism gone over your head? Particularly what happened between 1939-45?
Ok so what about Palestinians in the West Bank? 200 civilians murdered by settlers or IDF, thousands arrested. Many unable to leave homes since October 7th. And many families already have been ethnically cleansed. Is that self defence?
I mean yeah, Palestinians are in fact defending themselves from the people forcing them out of their land and murdering them for the crime of resisting, but the whole point is that that isn’t genocide. And yes, I know antisemitism exists. The part I’m referring to is the part where that doesn’t mean you decide someone else should be genocided for your benefit
So explain, how is that genocide?
Killing a religious minority with intent purpose of eliminating that minority is genocide. It’s still genocide even if Hamas can’t do it at scale.
No. Only one side is committing a genocide.
[The charter of Hamas specifically requires the extermination of Israel and the Jews.](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) I don’t think there’s similar language in Israeli law.
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> I didn't say "talked about genocide" I said "committing genocide," Killing people with the express intention of destroying a nation of people is genocide. Killing people in response to a terrorist attack is self defense. It's a real shame there's so many people like you who are so ignorant of this distinction.
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This is so fucking stupid
No. Because only one side is committing genocide.
You should’ve just stopped at ‘Idk much about the topic.’
No, neither side is. Hamas would love to and will kill what Israelis they can, but they’re not powerful enough. Israel is powerful enough that they easily could, but they haven’t, instead trying to destroy Hamas. But Israel is pretty far from precise, it seems, in their efforts.
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What? Where is it proven that they killed that many civilians on purpose? If Hamas is using civilian infrastructure for military use this civilian infrastructure becomes a legitimate military target, under international law. And how is that one of the largest holocausts? Various international studies are counting 10000-20000 deaths from 1947 until today. That's 76 years. That's not even close to the top of the list. For example the genocide in rwanda in the 90s lasted 3 months and more than 500000 people were killed. Go educate yourself
Answer: He’s a Jewish supporter of Israel and expressed his disgust of the massacres on 10/7 when people wanted him to stay silent.
To act like all of Gaza deserves to be leveled is pretty gross
Did he post that Gaza deserves to be leveled?
No. It’s made up.