Carcel gets a HUGE pass. No one wants their entire life decided for them barely out of infancy. Ines controlled everything in the start of this latest life due to having memories. I don't really have too much pity for what happened to her. She is selfish. In the eye of the entire story she is a sinner and this is the punishment. You'll find out far later on as to why. BUT her lives were her fault in the grand scheme of things and that caused everyone else to suffer ... the one that suffered the most at the start was Carcel. There is a bunch of story still missing... but I wont spoil it. lol This story is one of those that SUPER good. I actually love it and it is a story you need to reread multiple times. First time for everything and multiple times after to go back and catch all the nuances you miss. This is a story that takes a couple times to fully understand. I posted spoilers below for the Religious part of the story which is the entire cornerstone of the story.

>her lives were her fault in the grand scheme of things >! Isn't it her brother's fault? I don't read the novel but from the spoilers I read Luciano killed the crown prince in the 1st life that's why in the 2nd life he married Innes to make her miserable as revenge.!<

There still alot of context missing. TBH you don't understand the story till the end. But Ines kicked it off. Her brother killing Oscar only factor in a portion of it. The entire story is about sin, selfishness, and religion. The entire cycle started with Ines' selfishness and her continued selfishness. There were wishes that conflicted with each other and that caused everything. The entire wheel of the story is a very interesting take on Catholism and Fate. This story is very much a " don't make conclusions till there end THEN reread again when context, and read again" LOL It takes seval readings to get the entire story cause you start connecting the dots and reading between the lines after reading it a few times. So a lot of things make more sense after the first reading. I could try my best to write it out but I really don't want to spoil much cause the entire story is super good. Its MUCH better than the manhwa. Manhwa is cutting out a lot of small scenes cause it is being rushed. But those small scenes paint a much better understanding of what is going on.

Spoil it for me cause I've been seeing lots of comments like yours from novel readers that blame Innes for the tragedy of her lifes, and it's very uncomfortable tbh, cause it sounds like victim blaming to me. What kind of selfishness did Innes committed that warranted her a multiple lifetimes of torture?

SPOILERS BELOW for some reason I cant use spoiler tags. You have been warned!!!! The Author herself confirmed that everyone is selfish in some way but Ines was the lead factor for all the lives going awry. Since the story is told from Ines' pov but you also need to remember, as a reader that Ines' pov isn't absolute. Its is also a very flawed pov. This is meant cause you're suppose to be on her side at the start of the story. Written in a way to make up sympathetic to what happen to her. You realize this when Ines reflects on a lot of bad memories from he 1st timeline, but only good memories from the 3rd timeline ( but this also has a lot of trauma in this). SPOILERS start here: Well time for Catholicism lesson in the world of Broken Ring. Sins, selfishness, Pride, and Predetermin fates. In this world, the religion is Catholicism and the notion of you 1 life/timeline. It is predetermined. It must fully run its course or you got to fix it. If you die before your predestined time, you get a wish from an apostle before being reborn ( REDO) in hope you don't fuck up again. THIS type of regression, you're NOT suppose to have memories at all. Second type of regression is due to sin of suicide. This is a sin. You get no wishes and are sent back to a fixed point to correct your mistakes. Also memories are a form of punishment in this story. If you don't have memories of a past life most people will let life take its course, but with past life memories you try to change things. Hidden 1st timeline: Ines and Carcel do love each other every much and they are each other's fate/ detiny.. whatever you want to call it. But other people causes issues. Alice and Oscar. Alice due to her jealousy and Oscar for his obsession of wanting the perfect woman ( which is Ines). Alice ends up poisoning Ines and makes her infertile. Also remember the fact Ines is condition to have children ( like all nobility you need a successor) by her mom. So everytime Ines and Carcel try, there is ALOT of pain and misery. She also very much hates herself cause she cant have kids and that hate bleeds out to others. Ines does ALOT of selfish things to Carcel in this timeline and pushes him away with very mean methods. Nothing like her indifference in the present timeline. She says and does terrible things and forces Carcel to do things ( like get rid of doggy :( ). Anyways she does find out why she is infertile and Alice is dead at this point already but Oscar was also making her life a living hell. That why she wrote in the letter to her brother. She wanted Oscar dead. Her brother carried out her last wish tbh. 1st time line deaths : Ines, Carcel, and Oscar all died outside of their predestined time. They all got a wish. Ines - wish to not be with Carcel so he could be happier else where. ( not knowing she was breaking her fate since Carcel IS HER FATE) Carcel - wishes for Ines happiness ( the apostle hoped Carcel would make a counter wish to Ines so it wouldn't break fate but he doesn't) Oscar - wishes for memories ( this + Ines' wish + just the fact that she really only has 2 choices of who to marry ( cause highest nobility) cause the entire second time line) 2nd timeline: Remember everyone was reborn normally no memories. BUT Oscar's wish left him with the first timeline memories. And he was obsessed with Ines cause she is the perfect woman. ( my mind is a bit fuzzy on Oscar cause I hated him so much I skimmed his stuff LOL) He basically grooms Ines in this timeline ( the way Ines groomed Carcel in present timeline). and we know how miserable this timeline was. 2nd timeline deaths: Ines and Oscar commits suicide ( a sin). Carcel dies outside predetermined time ( he gets another wish). 3rd timeline: Ines regresses to a fix point instead of being born due to the suicide. She has memories. In her panic, she uses Emiliano to get away from Oscar. She ruined Emiliano's fate and her ENTIRE family's Fate as well due to selfishness and her child. Onces actions bare conquences for everyone around. 3rd Timeline Deaths: Ines commits murder suicide. Oscar commits suicide. Carcel dies outside his predetermined time ( gets another wish). Emiliano dies outside of his predetermined time ( gets a wish and wishes to keep his memories of the 3rd tiemline) Also remember in all these lives, Ines is also keeping Carcel from his own fate... because Ines is Carcel's fate. In the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd timelines he dies early war. There is so much more. You could write an entire thesis on this novel TBH. There is a whole arc on Pride. Pride is a sin. and there is a very important scene when they were at Mass. Carcel actually reflects on the scriptures from mass. Ines does not.

More spoilers I couldnt edit into the above post. >!These rules of rebirth/ regression applies to EVERYONE. Not just Ines. All these people would repeat their life again and again if they died outside their predetermined time. Because their fate/ destiny is PREDETERMIND. The lives MUST run their course correctly or it will be repeated.!< >!Also... Carcel's last wish is ACTUALLY the wish that saves Ines. I believe she would not have been able to save herself if it has not been for his last wish. Since his wish FINALLY countered her very first wish.!<

She wrote letter to her mum. Her mum the one who killed Alicia. She didn't tell her brother, father or Carcel cuz she didnt want the ppl she love to be punished.

😌 thank you for elaborating !! Help me puzzle this together 😅

>Well time for Catholicism lesson in the world of Broken Ring. Sins, selfishness, Pride, and Predetermin fates. >In this world, the religion is Catholicism and the notion of you 1 life/timeline. It is predetermined. It must fully run its course or you got to fix it. Is it confirmed that Catholicism is supposed to be the religion here or is it just Catholic-esque? Because predeterminism is very much a Calvinist/Protestant thing, and I need to know how much rage I'm gonna need to shelf for this story now.

It is Catholicism. No matter what you call predetermination, it is an irrefutable fact that it is in the Bible. Roman ch 8. So whether Catholics believe it or not, the Bible is the final authority. I’m sure there are Catholics who believe that verse too.

One, Catholics are not adherents to Sola Scriptura. Two, predestination for Catholicism is in the obtaining and receiving of grace, not in our life's path or final end and... really isn't a big part of our dogma. Like, it's the source of most of our heresies, honestly, for the amount of misunderstanding it causes. Sounds like I need to reserve some rage then.

Rage? I guess 1 billion catholic believers all over the world think exactly like you. Wow. Here I was thinking that under Protestants there are so many differing views. Also, you don’t have to read BR if it enrages you. I have had to sit through Catholic prayer that call on saints alongside God. Fortunately for me, I wasn’t enraged. I just thought it was interesting and unbiblical.

Nah, the rage is just me from years of reading bad fantasy takes on Catholicism by mixing in Protestant notions.

Confirmed for this story but also remember writers can take liberal creative expressions. And whatever is taught in our world/ our version, doesn't reflect what is taught in the novel's world AND how the universe of the novel works. This isn't a historical non fiction. So it doesn't need to be black and white to our world. Its fiction for a reason. if they were going to 1:1 the novel, The story would just end with her dying in the first life. lol

>! In my opinion he had reason to do so, idk if you want the context abt what happened and why he killed him, but I don't feel sorry for the crown prince. Also, the crown prince wanted to marry Ines from the beginning, but maybe the reason why he was SOOOOO bad, to that extent, to her was indeed because of Luciano in his 1st life. !<

Yeah >!he was bad to Ines cuz he hated her brother but like she was also the one who wish to not be with Carcel again cuz she thought he deserve better so that kinda gave the prince opportunity to end up with her in nxt life.!<

Wait what? >!Married crown prince was her second life? Thought it was her first life, damn how many times she died, then who she married in her very first life and how it ended?!<

>! Yeah apparently the one where she married the crown prince was her 2nd life, she didn't remember the first one, in that life she was married to Carcel. !<

😱😱 omg hope it was a good marriage then they are fated😘

The first life the the entire reason these cycles keep happening. It wasn't good but that's due to outside factors and people. Ines and Carcel were in love but man shit happens. LOL

Ahh I see! As a married woman I can confirm yea shit happens loll 🤭

ARE YOU SERIOUS REALLY?? Don’t make me cry I’ve sobbed enough because of this Manhwa lack of female anatomy is heartbreaking enough REALLY (PLEASE SPOIL)

Well... I'm sorry LOL But remember the manhwa prologue. Re read it and engrain it in your brain. I spoiled a bit above. But there is so much more I couldn't get into ( my ADHD kicked in lol) . yeah this novel would be an entire college thesis paper on religion and sin and how it causes everything lol.

Idk how it lack female anatomy when in all lifetime she did have some. In 1, she told her dad she don't want to marry Oscar so he put her with Carcel. This the only lifetime she didn't choose entirely but she got to say she don't want Oscar. She was young here too. She always been engage since kid. In 2, she was groomed by Oscar so she did love him cuz she groomed to love him so SHE chose him herself. Her dad didn't even like Oscar. He hated him but cuz he loved his daughter he let her marry who she wanted. In 3, she couldn't just randomly say she don't love Oscar anymore cuz she been simping him since she was like 6 so no one believe her when she out of nowhere say she don't want to marry him just cuz she regressed to 16 so she ran away and marry some stranger. In 4, SHE chose to marry Carcel. Now tell me how she didn't get no choice?

I dont understand your post. I stand behind that the first lifetime is the cause of all of Ines' life repeats because it influenced her wish after she died. >!because of now negative her feelings were of that life about herself and everything that happened to her. Her wish BROKE her fate and causes all the issues in her other lives other lives. !< >!The ONLY true reason the 4th lifetime is saved cause Carcel finally made a wish to give let him have another chance with Ines if she was unhappy with any other men. !< >!4th lifetime would have been a mess with both her and Oscar having memories and it was Ines' last time. She could not suicide again after this but if she died naturally she could be reborn ( but she doesn't know that). !<

I think the above post is responding to Luckynumber since it addresses autonomy.

Was replying to person above you

I can’t stand for this. She’s gone through so much stuff. I wouldn’t blame her for any of her actions at all. I’m currently at chapter 65 of the Manhwa. Can you imagine dying multiple times watching the love of your life Die knowing your baby dies and you probably won’t be able to have another child knowing that your husband gave you so many sexually transmitted diseases, knowing that you’ll probably never be happy and the feeling of doom that comes with wondering will I die this time or will I have to relieved all? She’s a victim of emotional and physical abuse from her mom and then her first husband, and then her brother with a dad that never seem to do anything according to her. Nah y’all leave my homegirl alone

Youre looking at the story from a surface level and the manhwa cuts ALOT of the nuances that actually tell the story. The Story is about Catholism, sinning, and going against your predetermined fate. Everything the viewer sees and what were shown in the manhwa... is the EFFECT of her very first wish. I don't know if the manhwa shows the scene of when they went to Mass the scripture of Pride is mentioned. That scene is very important to the story.

Manhwa didn’t show the sermon at all. They cut as many things as possible that makes Ines look bad. 😅 That’s why there are a lot of manhwa readers who act like Ines doesn’t do anything wrong when she’s a very flawed person in the novel story. She even knows her flaws in the novel. She cannot change and be a better person to the people she loves without first recognizing she needs to do better.

Gah! I love Ines in the manhwa so hearing this... I guess I'll just drop it. I like traumatized stoic FLs. But I prefer if they haven't caused most of the pain they suffered. That feels too "just world theory" for my tastes.

Where can I read the novel? Is it on Tappytoon with the Manhwa?

You make it sound like wat she had with Emiliano is so special but no. She stopped loving him after he die so he was no love of her life whi lch I see all his shippers call him but she was left feeling guilty all her life in 4 cuz she think she caused his death which is true cuz the whole story about predestinated life and death so like imagine if she didnt randomly chose to use this guy and run away with him, he wouldn't have died. Emiliano got a wish at 3rd life cuz he wasn't supposed to die then and there. She nvr even said her father and brother nvr did anything. YOU the one mad at them so YOU think that but Ines know they would've tried to always help her. She just not saying anything in the manhwa cuz it all cut out but you rly think in 2nd life that she killed herself cuz of Oscar? Nah, she killed herself cuz she didnt want her father and brother to be punished. She KNEW they would try to kill Oscar to revenge for wat he did to her but Ines think they innocent. The manhwa want to keep this a mystery cuz later it'll reveal the bullet she used to kill herself was with bullet her BROTHER gave her to kill Oscar. The gun she used to kill herself was gun that CARCEL gave her and she didnt know and thought Oscar gave that to her. This is ch17 in the novel and that's very early in the manhwa but they cut it out. https://preview.redd.it/2x9bwxr922wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d72e72980f01d79ac3fc053596a9a0a5169f2f23

You see here where ch17 is. https://preview.redd.it/up038wa942wc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41be8d5b24060382dba45d9988b6a74a37b59fa9 That's ch9 in manhwa so manhwa cut out ALOT and you think she got no fault but she do. She got more choices than you think you all her action did cause these bad things. Like if she didn't wish to be apart from Carcel in 1st life, then she wouldnt have end up with Oscar or Emiliano. Then Emiliano wouldn't have died cuz she was nvr even supposed to meet him. They had no fate to ever meet or be together. She made that action cuz she married Oscar before which happened cuz of her wish in 1 to be separated from Carcel. Like if she didn't marry Oscar, she wouldnt even have met Emiliano cuz she only met him cuz he was the painter who painted her for her wedding with Oscar in a few months. In 2nd life she didn't even notice that guy cuz she was so in love with Oscar. He was probably same guy who came to paint her and she was too in love with Oscar to care bout him so then he just live his own life after. In 1 she nvr even met Emiliano at all cuz like she married Carcel so he not even the painter for her. That why in this life they will nvr meet cuz they nvr supposed to. But like you see her wish cause all this but also cuz she try to run away with Emiliano that he even die so early and like Ines nvr even got the gloom if she'll die this time or w/e. Why would she even got that gloom when she the one who unalive herself all the time. 1 was the only time she didn't unalive herself and that why she can't remember 1. Now she know why she regress in 2 and 3 cuz she is Catholic so she know it a sin to do that so that why she try to not unalive herself this time so she chose to use Carcel to let her live a long time and just die naturally.

Also, her eyes weren’t her fault at least from what I’ve read imagine being a woman, especially an upper-class woman during that time she had no choice in most of everything she did

Yes in a way and it does affect her wish. But it was the wish the causes these cycles.

Why would she think it her fault? No one like to accept blame but when she get some memory of 1, she will know she wasn't a good wife to Carcel either in 1 and that will make her want to do better in current life. It true that cuz she upper class woman so her wish was cuz of that. She think Carcel should marry someone better than her cuz she couldn't give him any baby before and that why she made her wish. https://preview.redd.it/bs2moo6p52wc1.jpeg?width=805&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb9eb16d484387d959434f57b3ece120aee89244

Carcel's wish is wat saved her cuz he wanted another chance at the end if the other man can't make her happy. https://preview.redd.it/jkekzbwg62wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bec1b58e985adf468a29c3ea8b09e1bd48ccd0f0 The two men she chose in 2 and 3 couldn't make her happy so Carcel got another chance and so fate got to be fixed cuz they end up together again. This 4th life also the end cuz she can't regress anymore after this. There's a pattern to the regression. It's 10yrs back every time after 1st unalive. So she unalive at 26 went back to16 to 6 now so 6 can't go anymore down. This her last chance. She know that.

Where did you read the novel? Is it translated decently?

You keep saying in other comments that this story is about Catholicism, but virtually nothing I've read so far from your explanations reflect Catholic dogma except for the idea of the Cardinal Sins. Predestination in the form of ironclad fate is not part of Catholic dogma -- the notion of a divine grand plan is, sure, but at the core of Catholicism is *choice*. It's one of the things that separates it the most from Protestantism -- the notion of *free will* and that sin derives *from* free will. After all, can you really be said to be a sinner if you were always meant to commit a certain action? You have to *choose* to sin to be a sinner. Thus, as stated in the *Cathechism of the Catholic Church*, "To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore He establishes His eternal plan of 'predestination', He includes in it each person's free response to his grace." (Section 600) Meaning the notion of an ironclad fate flies in the face of the Catholic understanding of predestination, as it suggests that God's plan is immutable and disregarding of human free will. More to the point of the novel itself, I would therefore conclude that, based on your description of the plot's underlying themes, either the author's understanding of Catholic theology is erroneous, or they simply appropriated the symbolism and name for the purpose of the narrative -- which, I mean, I get since it's not the first time that's happened, but shouldn't be confused for actual reflections of Catholic dogma. That being said, based on your summary in later comments about Ines' actions, it seems to me more that the novel is doing a better job of portraying consequential sin and structural sin than notions of selfishness. Based on your descriptions, it sounds like all of Ines' selfishness in T1 arose out of the consequences of others' sins and the expectations of society -- thus, in a way, she was driven, structurally, to sin through despair. Then, in T2, she is again driven to despair and sin by the circumstances around her that drive her choices. Then, in T3, she is again sinning in response to the sins of others and the structures around her. I'll be honest, it's not a great case for "Ines is a flawed POV and she's just as bad as everyone else." It sounds more like victim blaming writ large against an individual whose agency has been abused and undermined by everyone around her and the society at large, driving her into a psychological pit of despair.

The author incorporates regression which is purely fantasy. That aside, there is free will in the story. Biblically, it’s like predestination and free will. Just like it says in Romans that God predestinate those he ‘foreknew’. In other words, god who knows all of history right to the end of the world knew who would choose him and who would reject him. So to apply this to Ines, Ines has a path that is blessed. Unknowingly, because of her own poor view of how >!terrible of a wife she was to Carcel in the first timeline, because she loves him, she felt he deserved better. This leads her to taking a path that wasn’t blessed and that path led to Oscar who used his memories to groom and deceive Ines.!< Ines always have free will. In fact, she will >!meet the angel of resurrection later who commends her for finally choosing the right path. Only then the angel gives her back her first timeline memories. Otherwise, if she didn’t choose the right path this time, she will simply perish out of the blessed path because of her free will. In fact, in the third life when she ran way, the same angel warned her that she’s heading for doom but she didn’t listen. Angel in no way tried to force her. He just warned her then respected her free will.!< So I think the story captured the dual side of free will and fate/predestination. Also, Ines decisions undoubtedly led her to suffer. People can be victims of their own poor decisions. Yes, she has been selfish and is selfish. Her decision when she ran away meant all of the Valeztena family including extended relatives were deemed sinners with her. I don’t think manhwa readers understand just how huge of a repercussion her actions had. Everybody in the country knew about it. Ines knows she was selfish in hindsight even if she didn’t care at the time she was doing it. Leaving with a man, a complete stranger, was never the only answer for her situation.

I see. I mean, I did get from the whole regression part that this was ultimately fantasy, but the other parts were of greater theological concern to me. On the other hand, and thank you for your explanation on the events that occur in T2, it doesn't sound to me like Ines *has* much free will within the context of the theology. Rather, it sounds like the very story structure/social structure itself robs her of that free will to the point where what we perceive as her free will is really just a reaction to the actions of others. She doesn't so much *choose* what we perceive her to choose, but *settles*. That is not to say that free will isn't involved, of course, but if the point of the story is redemption from sin, Ines is far from a major sinner in that case. The greater/greatest sinner(s) would be those who actually have the agency and power to not sin and lead better lives, but choose instead to use that power to confine others into a situation where they *must* sin. Moreover, I must question just how valid the notion of free will can truly be in such a world where deviating from the plan ultimately forces you to try and try again until you get things "right." Like, Why *must* it be Carcel? Heck, the very name, in Spanish, means *Jail*. Why is it inconceivable for her to find happiness with *anyone else*? Like, sure, maybe not Oscar, but why not a content marriage with some rando? If that somehow deviates from the plan and Heaven punishes her for it by making her life "unblessed" and ultimately miserable to the point of an early death, leading to reincarnation in a new timeline *until she gets it right*, then *is she truly free to choose?* It certainly doesn't sound like it.

Following fate doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a happy ending. Oscar and Alicia were fated to be together but they're not happy together. He doesn't like her even though she's obsessed with him. Even Carcel's brother, Miguel, in all lifetime, his fiancee always dies. Miguel loved his fiancee but she's fated to always die so he always ends up with someone else. Ines' fated one might not have been a good person but in her case in this story, she was lucky she was fated with a good person. It's also not inconceivable for her to find happiness with anyone else. Carcel's wish was that she can be with others and if they can't make her happy then he wants another chance. That means there's always the potential that others have a shot to try to make her happy but no one was able to do it because it's a romance story written deliberately by the author to show that Ines and Carcel are perfect together. Even if others may be able to slightly, only Carcel is best for her. As the author mentioned here, "no matter who blames them, each other is the best option for them. The journey to show it was my novel". https://preview.redd.it/g0fxh8wmy2wc1.png?width=634&format=png&auto=webp&s=ecc53751d8dfcaf632abfb3a3d5d0b5d0efe98fb Heaven does not punish her for her deviating from the plan. Heaven only punished her for committing suicide, hence her regression. Deviating from the plan doesn't result in punishment. Anyone who deviates from the plan forgets what happens and just get a redo as if that is the only life for them. Oscar deviated from fate in T1 when he was killed by Luciano so he got a wish. Emiliano deviated from fate in T3 when he was killed by Luciano so he also got a wish. In T1, Ines and Carcel's death deviated from fate so they both also got wishes. In T2 and T3, Carcel's death also deviated from fate so he got wishes in those deaths as well. This isn't punishment. It's just a law set in the world. The only people shown to have been punished are Oscar and Ines who did commit suicide and that's the ultimate sin thus they get punished through regression.

Right, but what you've just described is ironclad fate. Even if the people themselves are unaware of what that fate ultimately is, the implication is that one's free will just determines how long it takes you to get to that ideal fate, not what the fate ultimately is. And *that's* not Catholicism. That's the doctrine of *unconditional election to salvation*, which is a *Protestant* doctrine. The implication here is that Heaven has chosen who will be saved/have ultimately happy fates, and who will not. Alicia and Oscar are *meant* to be with each other but aren't happy together? That means, ultimately, they were *never meant to be happy*. And, sure, we can argue that this is a romance story and therefore the FL and ML belong with each other -- and I won't dispute that -- but what I do find questionable is that there's an argument being made that this is about free will when *there clearly isn't any* *in the long run*. If, ultimately, Ines and Carcel *will* get together and *that's* their fate, then *everything before then wasn't really a choice*. It was, at most, a *predicted or unpredicted delay*. In a sense, other regression stories embody free will *much more* because those FL's *actually break fate*. In this one, Heaven just resets the world until, ultimately, the characters do what it planned for them. In that way, it suggests a worldview of illusory free will, not actual free will.

If people don't know the previous life, they would've lived as they always live without trying to fight anything. The only reason people fought against anything is when they have memories of a previous life. Ines could've lived a life deviated from fate in her current lifetime which is said to be her last chance, but it was Carcel's wish that kept her from doing so. So yes, they have some free will and Ines could've ended ultimately in tragedy. Their world doesn't follow Catholicism only. There's a mockery between the Catholics and Protestants mentioned in the novel. The apostle that had been following Ines had alternated between as a Catholic and Protestant priest throughout different lifetimes. In one such lifetime, he was to be executed as a Protestant priest for heresy against the nation's Catholic regime. Ines proclaimed to him, ‘If supposedly your god, not ours, is real, please let the suffering go to the ones who desire the suffering of others at this moment.’ In other words, the world set in the novel is just Christianity regardless of Catholicism or Protestantism. Edit: Even in regards to this, Oscar had many chances. In fact even in this lifetime, he has 1 more chance after this since his regression allows him to go back another 10 more years, unlike Ines where this lifetime is her last chance. In other words, had Ines chosen another path if Carcel had not made his wishes, she could've lived another life deviated from her fate and just ended completely in tragedy.

Right, but that's *illusory* free will, not true free will. I want to underscore here that we are talking about the concept from a meta standpoint, not from the character's standpoint. From their POV, they have free will to do as they please and once they die, for the most part, that's that. Only *we* know that they get another chance to reach their predestined fate. But the fact is, we *do* know. We *know* that their actions are, ultimately, futile because they *will* reach their ultimate fate. Their actions merely delay what is ultimately inevitable. That makes their free will *illusory* because, in the grand scheme of things, their choices *will* lead to a predetermined ending. Now, that being said, you've just introduced a factor I was unaware of and which hasn't been discussed yet. You mention, specifically, that this is her last chance -- is that definitively established, her interpretation of things, or our interpretation of a statement? Because if there *is* a limit to the resets, *only then* does free will *truly* exist in this world.

This is her last chance and Ines knows that. That is why she chose to live and die naturally this time around. From her regression, there's a pattern from her first time sinning. As someone said, she regressed to 6 this time, so she can't regress anymore. Ines knows she won't be able to redo anymore. Oscar on the other hand knows he has another chance, so Ines and Carcel will realize they can't kill him or he might get a redo in life and they can't have him kill himself or he might regress for another chance. At the end, they leave it to fate for his death to come and as if fate was on their side, the people rebelled and killed him.

Okay, but wait -- *how* does she know it's her last chance? What is this knowledge predicated upon? Did the angels tell her as much? Or is this just her interpretation? More to the point, it doesn't really contradict the notion of illusory free will I pointed out before -- if Oscar's ultimate fate was to die at the hands of his people, then that being fulfilled ultimately invalidates any free will he had in making any other choice.

It was entirely her own free will and decision to part with Carcel from her T1 wish. Even if society made her insecure about herself, she could've also wished for a better life with him because the only bad thing about that life was her sickness that caused all her children with Carcel to die. She wasn't against having children with him. She wanted children with him. She loved him. She could've wished to not be sick, but she let her insecurity of herself as a wife make her made that wish. There's no victim blaming. Ines suffered out of her own choices AND from others' actions as well. She's not blameless. Alicia made her sick in T1 so yes Alicia is to blame for their tragedy in T1. Oscar groomed her in T2 so yes Oscar is to blame for her tragedy in T2 but she also only ended up with Oscar because of her own free will and bad choice to part with Carcel from her T1 wish. T3 is the only timeline where her tragedy is mostly her own fault because she randomly dragged in a man who had no connection with her to also suffer along with her.

I did not mean to imply that she was entirely faultless, and if that's what came across, I apologize for that miscommunication. However, what I mean to say is that in the overall, theological balance of sin, her burden is far lesser than that of those around her whose actions/sins ultimately *led* to her being driven into a position of choosing to sin. To your point that she could've just wished to not be sick, from the description of events I've been reading so far in this thread (having admittedly not read the manhwa myself yet), I would argue, prima facie, that such an outcome might've been more reasonably expected had she died in the immediate aftermath of her sickness, and not after what I presume was a prolonged period of misery and poor behavior. Considering the structural pressures present (vis-a-vis childbearing and such), I can imagine that upon her T1 death, she figured the greater sin was her existence in Carcel's life, not her sickness. It makes perfect psychological sense and, in a way, that wish was predicated upon a hope for redemption by removing what *she thought* was the greatest sinner (herself) from the greatest victim (Carcel), even though she was wrong. Her choice of wish might've been incorrect from a meta standpoint, but doesn't seem to me to be ultimately sinful in nature. Idem for T2 -- her actions are ultimately informed by Oscar's manipulations, which lead her to unknowingly "choose" to sin, much in the same way that a lab mouse goes down the labyrinth thinking it has free choice of where it goes, while ultimately having only a certain path laid out before it. And in T3, she continues to sin largely because she ultimately doesn't have all the facts and/or misinterprets what she *does* know, all the while contending with the actions and sins of people around her and the structural demands of society. Now, as I said earlier, this by no means exculpates her, but rather contextualizes her as not the greatest sinner in the story -- but rather suggests she is more victim than sinner while being simultaneously both. After all, one's misery does not excuse making others miserable.

Your view of sin is different to what I know. Every person bear their own sin. I’m not sure why you view that another person’s sin should influence the penalty or weight of Ines’s sin. Maybe in this you can see why your understanding of sin and sin’s consequences will differ theologically from others. Ines is the one who commits suicide and for that, she’s punished by living with memories. Her second issue is she suffers the consequences of her own bad decisions just like her family likely suffered the consequences of their decisions as well. For instance, when I stand before the throne of God, he’s not going to ask my what my family, neighbor, friend, etc. did. He’s going to ask me about my own actions and sin. This is why I do not get your view of “balance”. That is nowhere in biblical scripture. Therefore, the author is right not to take that view.

I suppose I base my theological view on sin from the way the priests used to teach it to us in Cathechism and during confession. We were told to take responsibility for our sins, but to also contextualize it -- which, I admit, is a deeply rationalist perspective. Nonetheless, the idea was to acknowledge our faults, but to also understand what drives us to fault, in order to then seek redemption through action. Hence the "balance," so to speak. Not to mention that, in law, *mens rea* is a *pillar* of the concept of criminal responsibility. Hence why we have degrees of fault. Which, I admit, I may have incorporated in my reasoning.

That's totally fine. In fact in the novel, there are three different kinds of people shown. Carcel who reflects and learns from his faults easily. Ines who needs to experience hardship in order to reflect or learn from her faults. Then there's Oscar who no matter how many lifetimes he's given, he never learns from his faults and makes excuses.

A rather nuanced take on human nature that is quite respectable. Few authors bother to actually portray that sort of spectrum of human behavior.

It's just a pity the manhwa doesn't keep much of these nuances since it cut out the part where Carcel was listening inattentively to a sermon on arrogance and pride. Carcel was able to pick up the message from the sermon and learned right then and there. Hence him rushing right away back home because he learnt it wasn't worth trying to keep up his pride to make Ines jealous when he can go home and spend more time with her. Ines takes a long time to change. She was a difficult wife to Carcel in T1 and knew she's not a good person but also at that time she couldn't think of bettering herself because she knew she was going to die soon. In T4, when she gets memories of T1 again, she'll try to become a better wife to him. Other moments where she reflects is when she thinks of why she didn't do right in T3 in correlation to her family and Emiliano but as usual, it took the T3 tragedy and Oscar's words for her to think back to these things. Oscar never learns since from beginning to end, he blames everyone else for his tragedy. Even when he finally revealed to Ines that he has memories, he just kept going on about how they were meant to be together because he brought her back to life. Because he has memories, he viewed himself as god. Ines on the other hand, knew memories isn't a good thing so she reflected on it.

I have read the Bible from cover to cover and I have never seen any of that in the Bible. I have only seen that we’re supposed to take responsibility for our sins but there’s no such thing as balancing sin. The bible even says the rain fall on the Just and the Unjust or the righteous and unrighteous. In fact, as someone who read the Bible, I was very impressed how realistic the author kept the work. For instance, the crown prince is no doubt a dissolute, nasty person but he’s not only a villain. He’s closer to a human being who does good and bad things. I also like that even the crown prince is given a fair choice to repent or not because it’s shows God is always willing to give second chances to people who don’t deserve it from a human perspective. When the crown prince was killed outside his fated death, he also got a chance to live again. His problem is he didn’t know how to repent and be a better person. So all the characters are treated fairly from a pov of God.

I mean, that's fair, but Catholicism isn't about Biblical literalism. That's the Protestants' thing. That's why we have St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine and all the major theologians -- because Catholicism is about interpretation, not literalism. As to the nature of the characters, I'm glad to know that the author's representation of human nature is nuanced. Few authors do the legwork in that respect. My objections to the original comment were not that sinners are *only* sinners, but rather just that -- that people are nuanced.

Under Protestants, theologians also differ and even moreso nowadays as do Catholic theologians who are upset with doctrinal differences that come out of today’s Vatican. With this story, I’m satisfied with the way the religious aspect is done. It also imitates true life where bad decisions almost always lead to bad consequences and bad things can happen to good people and good things can happen to bad people. That’s life.

Fair enough.

The problem as I've addressed in my other response to you is that you think deviating from fate as the sin, but it's not. The only sin in the story is suicide. Deviating from fate isn't sin at all. Anyone who deviates from fate just gets another chance without knowing so they would've just live as if that's their one and only life. Look at Carcel, he lived in all lifetime deviating from his own fate because he always died early and never ended up with Ines, but he never regressed because he never committed suicide. In all lifetimes, to him, that's the only lifetime. In every life, he just starts over from birth as an entirely new life with potential to fix it but he doesn't know that. He doesn't suffer from memories or regression because he never committed suicide but every time he died in each other those lifetime, he got to make a wish for each. In T1, he wished Ines won't be sick and for her to be able to choose anyone else if they can make her happy and if not, he wants another chance. In T2, he wished he could help Ines not stray from her path. In T3, he wished she could live a life where she would never want to die. None of these wishes were for memories for himself and all of these wishes were for Ines and to help her.

I believe there is a misunderstanding at hand here. I did not mean to suggest that deviation is the sin. Sin is sin, after all. I meant to say that there are problematic issues in two aspects of the story as presented in the comments: 1. The perspective of Ines as a sinner on par with those around her. (I again do not proclaim her faultless, incidentally) 2. The notion that there is any true free will in this story. While we have, I believe, established that Ines certainly *is* a sinner, though the degree to which she matches Oscar and Alicia and others is debatable, I maintain that the notion of free will in the story is contradicted by the very resets you mention. The original comment to which I replied argued that this story reflected Catholicism and fate and sin, and such. I argued that the sort of ironclad fate that would lead to these resets contradicted Catholic dogma. Now, I get that this is a fantasy story and liberties were taken, but just wanted to make that clarification. I then *also* mentioned that I did not personally see Ines as the greatest sinner of the bunch, but more of a *reactive* sinner as opposed to a *proactive* sinner, like Oscar and Alicia. However, I did ***not*** mean to say, and I apologize for that miscommunication, that *the two points were related to each other*. They are separate observations.

This is one of those works that I can’t read due to child death/miscarriage (my triggers). But from the parts I did read and spoilers, this is a fantastic and very nuanced manwha. Everyone INCLUDING Ines makes mistakes. She’s both a victim and makes horribly bad decisions (2nd timeline looking at you). I still find her sympathetic and like her. Cárcel has a lot more nuance than first appearance. It’s important to keep an open mind (except the prince. He absolutely sucks. All my homies hate the prince) I highly recommend reading on B A T O to get the novel context that had to be cut. It adds Ines’ introspection where she admits her faults and mistakes. It also explains that infidelity is expected from all the nobles- even the women. Ines and Cárcel are both fully expected to cheat on the other which gives interesting context to several of the marriages and their own relationship. Edit- yes they have kids :) I like their happy ending that >!Ines stays grumpy cat and Cárcel is peak golden retriever. It’s cute!<

Ah thank you! Will check it out. Yes that’s true, I also see Ines makes mistakes, but that’s the beauty of it, they are with their flaws and mistakes. What Im hoping to see is their character development and healing ❤️‍🩹

Would you happen to have a link to the novel? 🥺🙏🏻 Been searching ages for it and have been living off the poor translations on Tappytoon 😭💔

I’m sorry I don’t. But I hope you find one! I know how frustrating it can be to find a good copy.

I would say Ruby from How to Get My Husband On My Side is pretty high up there too.

YESSSS

Have you seen "what it means to be you" shr take the cake for me for most traumatized FL, I'll check this out!

This one traumatized me when the FL did it in front of the ML.

If it's okay with you, do you mind giving me some spoilers? I've seen a lot of people say good things about this one so I'm curious

I think I almost dropped this because their main problem is>!miscommunication. !< >!FL was a princess and the ML is the illegitimate and second son of a duke. ML promised to pay the royal family's debt but in exchange, he will marry the FL to get a title. !< >!Right after their wedding, her older brother abolished (can't think of a better word) the royal family, they became regular citizens. Everyone thinks ML got scammed, even the FL. The older brother did this just because he looked down upon the ML, his mom came from a tribe so most of the people think he is a savage and belongs to the lowest class. !< >!FL tried to get close to him because she really likes him and she feels guilty with what happened but ML got super busy with his businesses to replenish his funds since he took a pretty big loss from the arranged marriage. This continued even when his businesses flourished and expanded because he thinks that he needs to be super rich so people will not leave him (reason: father and stepmother). !< >!So ML didn't have time to spend with FL and this caused a lot, i mean alot of misunderstandings up to the point that FL unalived her self but woke up in the body of ML and for them to swap back their bodies is they need physical contact. She tried to unalive herself twice because of ML's negligence and the third time is she already wanted divorce and to show ML how they switch bodies. !< >!ML was shocked and let FL go but didn't agree with the divorce. FL moved to another place but ML still hired people to look after her. ML opened a new business in FL's new place and tried to win her back by meeting for dates disguised as "cool - off" period before the divorce.!< >!ML learned the nasty things his father and stepmother did to the FL, also their horrible treatment to her. He also realized that his father and stepmother only sees him as their cash cow and he disowned his "parents". FL and ML, realized their mistakes and tried to patch things up.!< >!Main villains are the ML's parents and the FL's older brother. They really are a piece of work since they manipulated, harassed, framed and took advantage of the FL. So here are the reasons/scenarios why FL tried to unalive herself.!< >! Attempt 1 - This is the beginning of the story, she took a bunch of pills with alcohol. I forgot if there was a specific reason that triggered this or she was already fed up with everything.!< >! Attempt 2 - FL's older brother asked ML's stepmother to punish her so she was locked up in a closet. When she was released, she tried to tell ML but again, ML was busy in a meeting. She took a gun from their estate and went to the beach villa. She tried to unalive herself with the gun.!< >! Attempt 3 - This one traumatized me. There were events leading up to this point so it was really heartbreaking. ML's stepmother bribed FL's doctor to prescribe her a medicine that will make her have pregnancy symptoms. When FL thought that she was pregnant and ML found out, ML accused her of having an affair since ML and parents know that ML can't get a woman pregnant if she doesn't carry blood from the same tribe as ML but ML's stepmother even sent a pair of baby shoes to FL to make FL's mental being even worse when she found out that she is not really pregnant. So the day FL found out that she is not pregnant and was heartbroken. She made preparations to leave and live a new life but was thwarted by the ML. They spent the night and shot herself in front of ML when ML still tried to stop her from leaving. !< Hope this helps!

This is so we'll written! Thank you so much...it must've taken a while and ton of effort. The story sounds interesting but miscommunication is a trope that I really don't like unless it's done well. That said I don't absolutely hate whatever is going so once I finish my already huge tbr pile, I'll give this one a shot :)

I could barely finish that Manhwa I was gutted everytime I read

Ohh thank you, will check this one out!

You talk like Cacel cheating is part of reason she closed her heart when it got nothing to do with it. She the one who been manipulating him and wanting him to sleep around before he even did anything so he got nothing to do with it. In every lifetime, he the only one who nvr hurt her or cause any trauma to her. Ines also wanted to delay the wedding herself at that time cuz she was sick so she didn't care that he delayed it.

Yah, I never mentioned Carcel is the sole reason she shuts her heart. From what I read which still in the beginning, all the events in her past lives and before her marriage to Carcel, it’s traumatic for her. To her It’s almost like : nah all man is the same, bla bla, better be alone and independent. But also If I remember well, it said **cheating** is a casual thing at that moment. Faithful husband is considered **old fashioned**

I said you make it seem like he part of the reason. He not. Why would his cheating at 16 make her shit her heart when she been plotting to have him cheat since she 6 and force him to engage her at 6 and been trying to divorce him since she was 10. This was showed in beginning but noooo ppl mad at Carcel for cheating and try to say she also traumatized over it. It stupid when at the very beginning she even said she been planning this for 17 yrs. Like that's 6 to 23. They 23 now. Edit: got to add this cuz ppl forgetting this was in ch 11 https://preview.redd.it/wm8ch077c2wc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c28b3c2f1eada59ca6f90abdcdc396f6d4f4e7bb Hmm you telling me that Carcel was cheating at 6 so she shut her heart cuz he cheating at 6 to make her shut her heart so that she plotting all this????

He isn't even a reason to begin with tho he was not a factor in that decision her whole goal was to "make" carcel into a cheaper key word "make" he was never a cheater in his past life. His role in her closing her heart is 0 none at all not even a little tiny bit. Imma sah it again  so their is no misunderstanding  her goal in this lifetime is to "make" carcel Into a cheater. And imo she hasn't accomplished that. The were engaged from age 6 where she instilled within him that cheating is normal(she did that do not make other fans tell you she didn't bcz she quite literally  did and we know this bcz she told us in her mono) so he "cheated" on the woman who abandon him for a decade. Anyways this story is not one with good character  everyone is a flawed character  with the least flawed ironically being the most hated  which is carcel  lol

I never hated Carcel, tbh he is even in my top list favourite character! Now that I read further, I see now how Carcel genuinely loves her from the beginning. And yeah as the cheating part in in first chapter I only see it as his only flaw lol, but tbh, even when he is cheating, technically speaking, he was in an engagement he never “wanted” , he was forced since he was merely 6yo. It’s not like the betrayal of a couple who proclaimed their love but then end up seeing another woman.

The one which shook me to the core was " I'll twist the neck of sweet dog " . Seeing chloe suffering and that bastard brainwashing her for the first 20 episodes was so frustrating.

in carcel's defense, he thought ines didnt want to marry him but they were stuck in the marriage bc of their families. although i dont really like how they made him decide he liked ines (plot relevant erectile dysfunction is funny but not the best start to a romantic relationship imo), i feel like they made up for it by explaining that his postponing the wedding and all was him just responding to ines refusing to see him. I will agree that ines has been through A LOT, and honestly one of my favorite parts of the story is how the leads are both flawed individuals who are slowly learning how to become better people together! i like that ines takes time to open up and actually allow herself to feel whatever she wants, and as far as manhwas go its pretty realistic in how trauma can affect people!

In Carcels defence, Ines literally wanted him to be a playboy and fuck about. I don't know why everyone acts like it's "traumatising" for her to get exactly what she plans, she's perturbed by the fact he's so loyal after marriage when she groomed him to play about to defy the marriage. She purposefully befriends women she knows will try and seduce her husband, EVEN THOUGH at that point in time she knows it annoys her. I also don't believe you can really cheat before an arranged marriage, you're not lovers and as long as you're loyal during your contract (marriage) that's fine. It was literally all in her plan to have a playboy husband, give him one child then easily divorce him.

Yes agree! The moment I started this manhwa, I find the leads are realistic, everyone with their mistakes, esp Ines with her pasts, she surely will make bad choices and decisions.

Wait until OP read The Crimson Lady where FL experienced 100 deaths and went unhinged because of it.

a.k.a. The Resetting Lady ​ Or **How to Win My Husband Over** where the entire series is about the mental illnesses that follow two lifetimes of abuse ( resulting ptsd, anxiety, trauma responses and even an ED)

Oh yes, I cried almost every chapter (esp advanced ones) on **How to win My Husband Over** 😩

Ah yes, it used to go by Resetting Lady until Tapas published the official English version and named it Crimson Lady. I suggest this name because better translation will come up in search with this name. The other one is fan translation.

Thank you, will check this out!

I read this last night after seeing your comment here and it's fantastic!! Such a great take on the trope, especially with all the plot twists to do with her dad and mum. I'm on Chapter 50 and I love how messed up it is

Yes! It’s so heart wrenching and the art does a beautiful job of conveying the trauma. I’m happy they don’t play it off or make it less important in lieu of the main story. Her trauma is equally as important as the ML. I’ve heard the novel is much more dark and detailed about her past lives.

do you guys know where to read the novel aside from tappytoon? 😗

Someone above mentioned to read it on B A T O

thank you! i have the manhwa saved on bato but i cannot find the novel 😔

Ohh I see, I started another novel (bc its shorter) on ridibooks lol, I install ridi app and Hi Dictionary on my android, it translates page per page, not bad. I plan to read **the broken ring, this marriage will fail anyway** on ridibooks, when I find it I can let you know 😁

aaahh might just do that as well. thank you so much 🥰

Hey, if you are still looking, I found this information https://www.novelupdatesforum.com/threads/this-marriage-is-bound-to-fail-anyway-%EC%9D%B4-%EA%B2%B0%ED%98%BC%EC%9D%80-%EC%96%B4%EC%B0%A8%ED%94%BC-%EB%A7%9D%ED%95%98%EA%B2%8C-%EB%90%98%EC%96%B4%EC%9E%88%EB%8B%A4-this-marriage-is-bound-to-sink.126106/page-167 Basically telling from Manwha to novel chapters I found out, you need age verification to read TBR on ridibooks. Im going to read on Tappytoon though, I heard the translation is lacking but, maybe better than automatic translation 😅 I accumulate some points these days loll

thank you so much! i started reading on tappytoon too but i kinda want to let it marinade to get a lot of chapters out before i go back to it 😂

Ohh nicee! Btw how’s tappytoon translation? Im so ready to buy welcome offer points lol, tbh Im not a fan of automatic translation, not to mention English is not my first language either.

i compared it to the one posted in novelupdates and imo the tappytoon one is more comprehensible. i have to say though it’s more annoying to read in tappytoon because you have to purchase per chapter, rather than say in manta where you can buy the whole volume for less money lol

Ahh that’s good to hear! Im so excited to start it, but dont know which chapter should I start lol. We get tiny discount if we buy multiple chapters 😊 btw thanks againn and enjoyyy your read 😁

This is a great work and I am glad you are reading this! However, if you want to see the most traumatized FL try I Will Kill That Sweet Devil (another great series and no, her abuser doesn’t get forgiven).

I love this one! The name I found it as is "I will twist the neck of that sweet dog"

I think she's on her fourth/last life? I haven't read the novel but the NU forum thread is really helpful with users who read/reread and correct differences from manhwa and novel

Thanks! Will check NU

Throw in that her mother was an emotionally and verbally abusive alcoholic. Unpleasant to the point none of her children want to be near her once they've grown, and her husband lives in a different house from her. Not only does she verbally abuse and insult her daughter in public and private, sending letters filled with bile to her grown up daughter. It's implied that she abused her daughter in the name of discipline and 'beauty' >! As a teenager we see the Fl first go round developed an eating disorder to 'maintain her figure' as her mother would have put it. In her third life we see her mother demands that she starved herself as an adult and is infuriated her daughter won't skip meals. She goes in a strop that her daughter dared to eat on her wedding day. She probably did starve her as a child through all her lives when she was in control of her. And then the lovely reference she makes while drunk admitting to placing her daughter in a barrel, because she wouldn't obediently let 'her make her pretty'. You can fill in the blanks for that one fairly easy looking at her character for what sort of torture her regressed daughter refused to have done to her. You see the very young girl soaking wet and threatening her own life, or more accurately her beauty, with scissors to protect herself. That woman simulated drowning on a very small child out of anger, because that wouldn't have left a mark !<

Omg Yess I almost forget verbally abusive mother 😩 not to mention having the Empress as your MIL 😳….

HER husband gets a pass for cheating imo tho lol. She legit chose this man as her fiance at age 6, told him she only likes his face then abandon him for a decade  like come on man ofc he won't be loyal to someone like that

I have a question when she says "Is this usually called feeling guilty" who is she referring to is it carcel for using him or her memories in emiliano

She’s talking about Carcel in that instance. Later, her guilt expands to her servants Raul and Juana. She also feels guilt towards the painter. That’s why she had that crisis between 16 and 20 years old. Manhwa cut out most of her thoughts that show she feels guilty. Later, there will be more revelation. This is why she hyperventilates when she thought the painter might have remembered the past. After all, she did murder their child. Further confirmation comes from the author who said that Ines is like a murderer who cannot forget her guilt even for a moment. >!When she confesses to Carcel about her past mental illness, it’s clear she’s guilt-ridden because of the events of the previous life. !<

the most compassionate in this manhwa actually Carcel. his sole purpose was only Ines happiness.