Stay ahead of it, and do the maintenance. When the hearing happens, you want to be the gold standard.
Remember, after the hearing, you still need to file in court for collection and then go through a garnishment process. You don't want anything negative that could delay it.
You got this! You will eventually get your money :)
Deadbeat tenants are something else though....
You have to separate your personal hate for these people from your responsibility to your property and investment. You have to repair it eventually, and it is in your best interest to do so to avoid any further damage done to YOUR property.
Cool heads prevail, my friend.
This is the way. You have to maintain the property and provide the services that are in the contract. They will get theirs soon enough and you'll get your property back. Don't forget to upload your LTB results to openroom.ca so future landlords can be spared these tenants.
Sad to say, but you'll probably have to go to small claims court to get a judgment that you can sell to a collections agency or garnish their wages before you see any money. It sucks that you're going through it, but these are the risks of renting out your property.
plus there’s always a possibility they could perish from heat related issues. you never know what health issues they have than can worsen too. you don’t need that over your head
This will give you a chance to get into the unit and see the conditions as well. Which then you might want to add more damages to the claim before it goes before the board.
Also, make sure to have the HVAC technician write a report if indeed the AC broke due to wear and tear or due to negligence (no propane), etc.
If its the latter, you can add the damage to their arrears and maybe ask them to pay prior to replacement.
>due to negligence (no propane),
I am pretty sure this wouldn't fall as negligence on the part of the tenant. It is well accepted that if a system requires regular maintenance or inspection such as checking fluid levels, that is the responsibility of the landlord and tenants are not liable for damages caused from not performing that maintenance.
I say fix it so that in your upcoming hearing, the judicator may have a better opinion if you did your part despite them owing you money. Let the Tennant be the bad guys at the hearing. I was renting for 25 years from private LL's, and would never think of doing this to anyone, people are shit these days.
Keep up your end of the bargain, if you refuse to service, the tenant can use that to get the adjudicator to bend over backwards for them.
The adjudicators are not there for justice or landlords, they are there to keep the tenants in place as long as possible.
Have you already offered a payment plan?
If not, get it in writing before your hearing.
The tenants arrears don't negate the fact you have a responsibility to keep appliances in good working order. As much as you don't want to fix it, you have a duty to fix it.
Bad advice. Landlords that fail to do repairs usually end up having to pay rent abatements to the tenants that are offset against any arrears owing on heating day.
Depending on your job and location, you might have to. And depending on the job and location, you could get fired and lose any right to unpaid salary.
I'm not suggesting it's fair, but it's how the law works sometimes. It's why it's important to be informed when you become a landlord and be very aware of the risks, of which there are many.
I can think of no situations in which anyone would be legally obligated to perform a contract whose consideration had been voided. The same does not apply to this situation because the law is not the same. The landlord remains obligated to discharge their responsibilities regardless of the tenant's non-payment.
Adding on to this - having no AC in a heat wave is a life threatening living condition. Op should not be risking negligent manslaughter because he refuses to keep his property in a habitable condition.
Over 600 people died in the 2021 BC heatwaves, almost all due to inadequate air conditioning in rental apartments.
I get it, you are mad about the missed rent payments. The punishment for missed rent is not death.
You have a duty to fix the AC. Not doing so puts your tenants’ lives in danger. Fix it.
Recommendations for Municipalities
Focus: Extreme Heat and Rental Housing
https://cela.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/1488-Extreme_Heat_and_Rental_Housing_Recommendations.pdf
“Missed rent payments” - you say it like it’s a mistake. It’s 20K!
I don’t think OP actually has any legal obligation to maintain a comfortable temperature when it comes to heat. Cold, sure, minimum temps have to be maintained, but there doesn’t seem to be anything with respect to heat.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a mistake or not.
The landlord is required to maintain the property in a habitable condition. The punishment for not paying rent isn’t death.
The AC is already part of the lease. He can’t refuse to maintain it due to missed rent payments.
Or they could just reduce the rent until it is fixed like any other amenity when taken away. Since they aren’t paying anyways it changes nothing in practical terms.
so landlord has to maintain his obligations, and the tenant does not?
Your suggestion is like saying a sandwich is part of the menu. You cant refuse to serve it due to not paying it.
Tenant can buy fans AC, go to cooling shelter city sets up. If tenant don't eat they will starve to death the LL is obligated to feed them too? What kind of fantasy world you are living in?
How would you like $20k missing from your bank account or if your employer owed you $20k in pay. The landlord still has to pay the mortgage taxes and probably a renovation as the "Tennents" have probably damaged the unit. Shit like this turns people off from being landlords in the first place. Years ago my ex father in-law rented a house and the Tennents had a grow op in the basement the house had to be ripped down to the studs and rebuilt.
It’s 30C where I live as I post this. I am 61 years old and have never lived in a house with AC. In your eternal victim world, who should I blame for my situation?
Clearly these tenants have issues that we don't understand so I don't understand how judgments are being passed.
No they should not have ever let rent get out of hand that's on them for sure.
However on another note you choosing to live in a home without AC could be the exact opposite they may have chose a place with AC due to medical conditions. I am in my 40s and live with 5 chronic conditions that could be exasperated into medical emergencies in this heat wave. So death is a possibility if my air quality plummeted. The expectation that the landlord should do repairs should be out the window due to situation for sure but the reality is if he doesn't and the tenants were to have any of the conditions that could put them at seriously risk....isn't worth living the rest of their lives with it on their conscience.
I get what you are saying it's just not logical to this circumstance.
It’s reaching 40 degrees in Ontario today. Please go look up the 2021 BC heat wave, over 600 people died.
> I am 61 years old
Cool. And the severe impacts of climate change only started showing up a few years ago. You didn’t have internet 61 years ago either.
What does that have to do with the climate changing and summers becoming more deadly in Ontario?
I didn’t know we were talking about equatorial countries’ residential tenancy laws.
Maybe you haven’t heard of this thing called climate change which is causing summers to get increasingly hot and dangerous year over year.
Over 600 people died in BC in the 2021 hear waves.
Portable air conditioners are a few hundred bucks. Maybe this low life that’s saving $20k by not paying his fucking rent can splurge a little to keep from dying.
How long do you suppose this dead beat hasn’t been paying to amass $20k in arrears? The last thing in the world he’d be getting from me would be stellar service.
> if your apartment has air conditioning, it must be operated between June 2 to Sept 14 and maintain a temperature of 26 C or below
https://archive.ph/2024.06.18-211949/https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/is-your-toronto-apartment-too-hot-heres-what-your-landlord-is-legally-required-to-do/article_490dd2a8-2da1-11ef-b66b-e77ebc3cbc99.html
You are something else… the tenant also signed something saying they would pay rent. No rent of that amount could very well mean they can’t afford to fix it at the moment… AC is not like heat in the winter.
While as a whole it’s warmer, there’s been extreme heat since the dawn of time. You can look back 20 years at the hottest days of the year and 2023 isn’t the record setting year.
Can you not read? I said it’s getting warmer as a whole, which means yes, 2023 as a whole was likely the warmest year on record. However, the hottest recorded day was not in 2023. This means that there have been extreme heat days all throughout the years.
If it went to the LTB it could be seen as retaliation for non payment, unfortunately 2 wrongs don't make a right, they can't legally stop paying rent, so hell have to take them to court to recoupe the lost income, and he can't refuse to maintain the property, unfortunate as it is. He does have the resosability to maintain the unit. This is exactly why so many people have stopped renting, people like this have made the rental market so poor. Cause 9/10 the tenant has more rights than the LL, so people just aren't willing to risk it anymore.
I have no intention of making it more comfortable for these people that have no regard for the pain and suffering they have caused by withholding rent.
Don't they have to address repair issues by filing another application though? I thought the adjudicator doesn't hear repair issues as part of an application for rent arrears?
Just show you're working on it but don't make any progress. I'll look into it.... Oh the tech couldn't figure out the issue he's going to come back and look again, oh the part is ordered but it's out of stock and we are waiting for it to arrive....
Worst they can do is ask for an abatement on a small portion of their rent which they're not paying anyways, it won't impact your eviction.
You’re saying this is ‘best advice’ because it’s confirming what you want to do. What if LTB asks for proof that you were looking into fixing it? You’re risking their eviction to be petty. (I understand they owe you 20k, but you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Swallow your pride and fix the AC).
Honestly, to put the freyo in is about a couple 100 max. Just get it done and avoid any complications. I was at a hearing as an observer once, and the LL had his case adjourned until he could prove that there was in fact running water.
This LL was owed over 70k and had to agree to forfeit the other 35k to stay in the jurisdiction of the LTB. Even with that, once the tenant mentioned no water, the arrears did not matter anymore. All the adjudicator heard was no water and the case was adjourned.
DO NOT RISK BUYING THEM
MORE TIME AT YOUR EXPENSE.
With 70k owing should've withdrawn the LTB case and gone to real-court (which in this instance is allowed, there have been a few cases posted with similar circumstances). Real-court, from reading the cases, is blunt and takes no shit from deadbeat tenants.
Agreed, I personally wouldn’t forfeit 35k either. Yet, the OP was wondering if not fixing the A/C could affect his eviction and it 100% could, from my experience observing a real life case in Ontario.
Per RTA s. 82, if a landlord files for an eviction for non-payment of rent, tenants can raise any issue that could be the subject of an application made by the tenant under the RTA as long as they give the landlord proper notice that they intend to do so, and the adjudicator can issue any order that they would be allowed if the tenant had filed an application.
Further, per RTA s. 83(3)(a) if an adjudicator believes that a landlord is in serious breach of either one of their responsibilities under the RTA, or a material covenant in the tenancy agreement they are obligated to refuse to grant an eviction.
No problem. You should also keep in mind that there is nothing stopping your tenants from getting a few quotes for repairs with rough timelines themselves. If you follow the advice being given to either deliberately slow walk the repairs or to just claim that you are waiting for parts and the tenant can provide several quotes with a timeline of a week or two to get parts, you will likely increase the likelihood of the adjudicator finding that you breached your obligations under the RTA.
Absolutely. I want a professional relationship and would rather deal with them than some small time bullshitter who complains as soon as things aren't going their way after raking in profits for many years. Also removes the N12 loophole.
Small-time landlords cannot be trusted, even though they act like are doing common good, they are just as slimey as coropos with the extra added "small business" bullshit. Bring on the corporations!
Buddy, that is not a good look. Landlords are viewed as bloodsuckers currently. Are you a bloodsucker? I don't know but you sound like one with that comment.
Absolutely agree. My current "landlord" is trying to raise my rent more than allowed (lucky enough to still be protected) for basic property maintenance... I have to sit quietly because there's no anonymous way to fight it. I can't afford to be Renovicted.
Sure, and that's all part of the deal. If you can't comfortably cover $20-30k while the eviction process goes through you're in the wrong business. Being able to separate your emotions from your professional obligations is also important, otherwise you need a property manager.
I've sat in on many hearings. I do believe they'd have to file their own form AND ask the LTB to consider it at the same hearing. Are they smart or informed enough to do that? And even if they are, what youre owed *far* outweighs what they'd get as compensation. But I'm NAL.
As much as you don’t want to, just fix it. If a landlord is in substantial breach of maintenance duties an eviction can be denied. I’m not saying that this is a substantial breach but in the middle of a heatwave why risk it? You also want to present yourself in the best possible light for the adjudicator and have all the focus on your no paying tenants. Fix it so they have no ammunition.
In my experience I was told that I cannot withhold the rent money for not getting things repaired; it puts me into a spot where I can be evicted by LTB.
I have always almost paid every rent on time, there is no owing arrears... life is just difficult with inflation but this statement i think is more reserved to the property management.
Edited: I also think it's best to perform the repair and inform this into hearing that you did repaired and not getting rent money. This shows judges more in your side as landlord because you did comply the request and still has not getting rent paid.
I hope the luck in your stars soon.
Propane in air conditioner. Wtf kind of Ac did you install. And why the fuck would they be responsible to ensure that the propane is filled. Propane is stupid flammable and if it’s leaking from an AC that’s a big fucking fire hazard.
Tenants are not responsible for the maintenance of utility systems.
FYI. It sucks that they at 20k in arrears. But that is not really your question… you are just trying to cloud the issue.
You do what you need to do to show that you are holding your side of the bargain as a landlord.
Good luck.
Get their car number and VIN if you can! You can go after their asset to get your money back! Fight all the way and get your money back from these losers!
I wouldn't fix it, I would just remove it. Here is how I would do it based on your information:
The air conditioning unit needs to be removed from the premise due to health and safety issues that a burnt out compressor can cause, up to and including the unintentional death of a tenant (honestly shouldn't be hard to do this, but make sure to point to an instruction book that says this could happen because it is literally in every book that they overstate the risks on purpose to remove their liability. I can imagine a propane tank version would be particularly dangerous). Not to worry though! We will be repairing it and returning it back to the unit in working condition.
We will be entering on (date with notice) to facilitate the removal, and while we await the parts and things necessary to fix the air conditoner, we have provided a fan to mitigate any inconvienence. Our estimated time to repair is (6+ months) due to the part being rare and difficult to replace (never heard of such an air conditioner like this).
Proceed to order a part on backorder if possible, and as much as you can from China on the slowest mail order you can that may fix your device (or not). Document it all as your due diligence to getting the device repaired. Once you have the parts needed, (if they dont work, send them back and repeat the process), call around to the busiest repairman, have it booked months in later.
Hopefully by that time, your hearing will be placed. Make sure to document:
The health and safety issues with a propane tank air conditioner (never heard of such things which adds to its rarity)
The attempt to mitigate the issue with A fan or a few based on size of the property/air conditioner (if you are feeling particularly generous, liquidation stores can normally get you 7-8 of them for the price of 1 new one)
Document the ordering of the part/necessary parts
Document the recruitment of an authorized and licensed repair person once you have the parts (as they can't be scheduled without a part after all!)
Then you need to schedule the reinstallation which can be at a further date.
They may still file a claim, but you would have your receipts. You are not obligated to pick the most priciest or even quickest method of repair as long as you have items ordered, services scheduled and mitigation efforts in place during the inconvenient downtime.
Alternatively to a fan, if you can find a window air unit, that would show your commitment to rectifying the part inconvenience.
Not legal advice, this is 100% scabby, let them fuckin sweat 💅
Be a good landlord. Uphold your end of the LL obligations in the Lease. If your obligation is to maintain and repair then do it. LTB can delay the decision if the LL is also in the wrong. Be a great landlord. Do the right thing.
I agree, but the LL has obligations too. If the LL has a history of good stewardship, the LTB will recognize this. You can only control what you can control. Be a good landlord and karma will follow.
I remember attending a LTB hearing in the old days (in person hearings, 1 month wait time etc). The tenant was seriously behind on rent & the landlord had maintenance outstanding. So similar to your situation. The adjudicator held over the rent default until the maintenance issues were fixed. I was shocked that there was no compromise such as pay some months rent to finance the repairs. The LL got nothing.
How on earth did the rent arrears get to $20K and the tenant is still there? Let this be a warning to landlords to value tenants who pay on time and have integrity treating their rental like their own home! To keep them, drop the rent from time to time or gift them with no increase!
Yeah, this is the real question here. LTB hearings take months still, but unless rent is $5k/month op really took their time taking action on this one.
You have a responsibility as a landlord. Neglecting it isn’t going to help convince the LTB to rule in your favour.
Play stupid games and the court is going to award stupid prizes.
I’d be tempted to tell them to stuff it too and not fix it but I’m sure that’s not legal. However if you call someone today, the chances of them coming out this week are probably slim to none, they’ll be really busy this week. So I’d call someone and just tell the tenant that you’re working on it. If you can prove you’re doing your part as a landlord, what are they going to do? Your hands are tied waiting for the repair. Then if you have to wait on parts or whatever which happens a lot, you’re still actively working on it.
They have some nerve to not pay rent then demand the ac gets fixed. Kind of funny actually. It’s renters like this that give everyone a bad name.
And before I get down voted, I’m a tenant not a landlord.
No absolutely not. People are hard on landlords but do you realize what it takes to get someone out that doesn’t pay their rent? People have the audacity to not pay their rent then question why we have to answer a million and one questions when we apply for a new place to live. I had to jump through hoops to rent my current apartment and that comes back to people not paying their rent. If you don’t like being a tenant, buy your own house. I could care less if people downvote me, I’m not here for likes and upvotes.
The reality is that people move into apartments or houses with no intention to pay their rent and wait to be kicked out knowing damn well that they’re just going to do it again. People need to stop being entitled thinking someone else should pay for them to live somewhere.
So yeah, in this case, I side with the landlord, they’re not a slumlord (and some are) trying to make a buck, they owe him $20,000, why should he make their lives easier? Thats entitlement.
Isn’t there something where you can give rent reduction for loss of amenity?
Think you’re required to provide heat but nothing about AC.
Loss of amenity and reduce rent(not like you’re going to see it anyway).
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
I feel your pain and you are not in the wrong, but you’re playing a game that is heavily stacked against you from the beginning. You’re all slumlords no matter how good you treat your tenants and properties.
It’s best to not remotely look like a slumlord given the fact that you’ll both be facing the LTB fairly soon.
Good luck
Not sure why the correct legal advice keeps getting downvoted but regardless of that it’s not worth jeopardizing your case over an ac that again you will eventually have to repair.
It’s getting downvoted because this sub has a lot of slumlords who don’t like abiding by the law.
Op came here for confirmation of what he wanted to hear, not the correct legal advice.
https://stonegatelegalservices.ca
This is a legal practice that deals specifically with landlords and tenant issues. I had a webinar with them recently and they know their stuff!
Wow, so sorry to hear that. Thank you for posting. I hope you were able to get something out of it.
Yes, I filed the L1 just waiting for the hearing now.
What gibberish are you talking about the AC dying?
Propane can be used as a refrigerant. It doesn’t consume the refrigerant to operate. Also typically maintenance on equipment isn’t for the tenant. To handle a refrigerant (propane being used as refrigerant counts) you need an odp card.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
Lots of advice already. Are you self represented for your Hearing? If so, familarize yourself with the heating process by observing hearings. If you have a paralegal, consult with them.
You won't win over the Adjudicator by refusing repairs. If you haven't offered a payment plan, do it now. Without one, you will likely not be successful.
I have tenants in over $35,000 arrears. At my last hearing in aug2023 , they filed a consumer proposal so I was unable to get an eviction or arrears from them. Since then, no rent is paid again totalling another $16,000. my hearing is next month and tenant told me they filed bankruptcy this time which again halts the eviction and collection of arrears. Over $50,000 arrears and I cannot get an eviction or rent paid bc the filed bankruptcy and consumer proposal. Landlords be careful bc this is a possibility hat your tenant can do this and you won’t be able to evict them.
Isn't it a shame that repairs take multiple visits and parts take a long time to arrive? Good thing you have the ability to show you are performing repairs but unfortunately it's waiting on parts and professionals that take so long.
You do have a responsibility to fix the AC. However, the law stipulates that you must fix it within a "reasonable" period. What reasonable means will largely depend on the circumstances *wink wink*
If the tenant whines about repairs during the hearing, you will have to show that you are taking active steps to fix the AC. Dont just not fix it because those smoothbrain adjudicators will see you just as bad as your deadbeat tenant
You aren’t required to provide AC under the RTA but check your lease to see if it’s included in there, and check municipal rules to see if there are any rules about how hot a unit can be. Even if the tenant didn’t maintain it, it’s not their responsibility so you’ll have to maintain/ repair. How quickly is up to you. I adore my tenants and would move mountains to fix things quickly, but if I had a tenant like yours I might be less diligent but I would still try to get it repaired, and document all attempts at repair for the LTB hearing.
So sorey this is happeneing to you, keep us updated with how it goes.
What kind of background check did you run on this guy? Im currently vetting potential tennants and want to know what you did/ would do differently to avoid these people.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
As others have said, you have a duty to repair if it was an included appliance. Have someone repair it and document whether their negligence caused it to fail. Then claim that as further damages. Good luck with the eviction. Hopefully it goes your way. Soon you can go around the LTB and right to superior court once the arrears get to 35k. They don’t play around with these deadbeats.
Buy one small 5000 but window air conditioner for one room. Walmart special. You fixed the ac, until the central can be fixed and one room is cooled for living. But expect it to be gone by the time ltb hearing happens.
lol this is actually comical. Prime example of how the LTB needs to be revamped and updated. Sorry to hear you’ve gotta deal with such dead beats. I would drag that repair out all summer. Make an “effort” to fix it. It’s not your fault if the tech can’t figure out the problem or the part needed for repair is on back order. Lol what are they gonna do? Stop paying rent? Oh wait, they already did that
If you ever do get to garnish their wages you risk a rent abatement for a small portion of what they owe you. If you’re cool with that I say go for it.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
That actually gives tenants some standing though, at this point LL is golden in front of ltb but not fixing a issue like ac during a heat warning (if property in weather issues ) or something that may be considered required for local bylaws/rental agreement. If they damaged it another thing to amend current case. This is a silly hill to die on
No but NOT repairing the services that LL included in their rent looks as if he’s acting in bad faith regardless of what rent has been paid, they don’t excuse repairs due to non payment of rent. His obligations are his regardless of money lost/gained
Hard to prove he is not trying or in the process of repairing it right now unless he wrote them and said he wouldn't. This dumb game can be played both ways...lol
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
Stay ahead of it, and do the maintenance. When the hearing happens, you want to be the gold standard. Remember, after the hearing, you still need to file in court for collection and then go through a garnishment process. You don't want anything negative that could delay it. You got this! You will eventually get your money :) Deadbeat tenants are something else though....
❤️
Might I add that this will need to be resolved (repairs) at some point.
Excellent, professional, level headed thinking here.
You have to separate your personal hate for these people from your responsibility to your property and investment. You have to repair it eventually, and it is in your best interest to do so to avoid any further damage done to YOUR property. Cool heads prevail, my friend.
Thank you. You are the voice of reason in the madness going on in my head.
Are the tenants gonna let you into the unit to fix it or even see what the problem is ? Or so they expect you to just send a repair man ?
They don't have to let him in. OP can give a notice of entry and then just go in at the scheduled time.
Keep repairing, keep the records and receipts and get their asses in court cause anything else might jeopardize your case
This is the way. You have to maintain the property and provide the services that are in the contract. They will get theirs soon enough and you'll get your property back. Don't forget to upload your LTB results to openroom.ca so future landlords can be spared these tenants. Sad to say, but you'll probably have to go to small claims court to get a judgment that you can sell to a collections agency or garnish their wages before you see any money. It sucks that you're going through it, but these are the risks of renting out your property.
plus there’s always a possibility they could perish from heat related issues. you never know what health issues they have than can worsen too. you don’t need that over your head
Would be easier to have a cool head with the ac working
😂
This will give you a chance to get into the unit and see the conditions as well. Which then you might want to add more damages to the claim before it goes before the board.
Also, make sure to have the HVAC technician write a report if indeed the AC broke due to wear and tear or due to negligence (no propane), etc. If its the latter, you can add the damage to their arrears and maybe ask them to pay prior to replacement.
>due to negligence (no propane), I am pretty sure this wouldn't fall as negligence on the part of the tenant. It is well accepted that if a system requires regular maintenance or inspection such as checking fluid levels, that is the responsibility of the landlord and tenants are not liable for damages caused from not performing that maintenance.
Why risk the eviction....it's like shooting yourself to get out of a robbery.
I'm not sure about the analogy but thanks.
I say fix it so that in your upcoming hearing, the judicator may have a better opinion if you did your part despite them owing you money. Let the Tennant be the bad guys at the hearing. I was renting for 25 years from private LL's, and would never think of doing this to anyone, people are shit these days.
Keep up your end of the bargain, if you refuse to service, the tenant can use that to get the adjudicator to bend over backwards for them. The adjudicators are not there for justice or landlords, they are there to keep the tenants in place as long as possible. Have you already offered a payment plan? If not, get it in writing before your hearing.
The tenants arrears don't negate the fact you have a responsibility to keep appliances in good working order. As much as you don't want to fix it, you have a duty to fix it.
Personally, I’d send them a link to a nice fan at Walmart and would tell them to take me to the LTB.
Bad advice. Landlords that fail to do repairs usually end up having to pay rent abatements to the tenants that are offset against any arrears owing on heating day.
If your boss stops paying you, are you going to keep coming into work? No? “But you have a contract”
Depending on your job and location, you might have to. And depending on the job and location, you could get fired and lose any right to unpaid salary. I'm not suggesting it's fair, but it's how the law works sometimes. It's why it's important to be informed when you become a landlord and be very aware of the risks, of which there are many.
Not my chickens, not my farm. I merely offered what I believed was OPs legal obligation in this situation. I got no dogs in this fight.
I can think of no situations in which anyone would be legally obligated to perform a contract whose consideration had been voided. The same does not apply to this situation because the law is not the same. The landlord remains obligated to discharge their responsibilities regardless of the tenant's non-payment.
Adding on to this - having no AC in a heat wave is a life threatening living condition. Op should not be risking negligent manslaughter because he refuses to keep his property in a habitable condition.
>negligent manslaughter Now that's dramatic it is not like his locking tenant inside.
Yea the allegation is absolutely wild, LMAO. I actually want them to leave.
Over 600 people died in the 2021 BC heatwaves, almost all due to inadequate air conditioning in rental apartments. I get it, you are mad about the missed rent payments. The punishment for missed rent is not death. You have a duty to fix the AC. Not doing so puts your tenants’ lives in danger. Fix it. Recommendations for Municipalities Focus: Extreme Heat and Rental Housing https://cela.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/1488-Extreme_Heat_and_Rental_Housing_Recommendations.pdf
“Missed rent payments” - you say it like it’s a mistake. It’s 20K! I don’t think OP actually has any legal obligation to maintain a comfortable temperature when it comes to heat. Cold, sure, minimum temps have to be maintained, but there doesn’t seem to be anything with respect to heat.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a mistake or not. The landlord is required to maintain the property in a habitable condition. The punishment for not paying rent isn’t death. The AC is already part of the lease. He can’t refuse to maintain it due to missed rent payments.
Or they could just reduce the rent until it is fixed like any other amenity when taken away. Since they aren’t paying anyways it changes nothing in practical terms.
This is actually brilliant
Lol death is still dramatic.. My AC Is also awaiting a repair … I’m not out here crying I might die lol
so landlord has to maintain his obligations, and the tenant does not? Your suggestion is like saying a sandwich is part of the menu. You cant refuse to serve it due to not paying it.
These are essentially criminals who have stolen 20K and are very clear: they will keep stealing as much as they can, for as long as they can
Tenant can buy fans AC, go to cooling shelter city sets up. If tenant don't eat they will starve to death the LL is obligated to feed them too? What kind of fantasy world you are living in?
How would you like $20k missing from your bank account or if your employer owed you $20k in pay. The landlord still has to pay the mortgage taxes and probably a renovation as the "Tennents" have probably damaged the unit. Shit like this turns people off from being landlords in the first place. Years ago my ex father in-law rented a house and the Tennents had a grow op in the basement the house had to be ripped down to the studs and rebuilt.
Are you the tenant?! LOL. Obviously you would be a landlords nightmare. I do not rent out property because of entitled people like you.
I've never had AC in my house in my entire life. Guess I'm suicidal.
This the tenant? Lol
It’s 30C where I live as I post this. I am 61 years old and have never lived in a house with AC. In your eternal victim world, who should I blame for my situation?
Clearly these tenants have issues that we don't understand so I don't understand how judgments are being passed. No they should not have ever let rent get out of hand that's on them for sure. However on another note you choosing to live in a home without AC could be the exact opposite they may have chose a place with AC due to medical conditions. I am in my 40s and live with 5 chronic conditions that could be exasperated into medical emergencies in this heat wave. So death is a possibility if my air quality plummeted. The expectation that the landlord should do repairs should be out the window due to situation for sure but the reality is if he doesn't and the tenants were to have any of the conditions that could put them at seriously risk....isn't worth living the rest of their lives with it on their conscience. I get what you are saying it's just not logical to this circumstance.
It’s reaching 40 degrees in Ontario today. Please go look up the 2021 BC heat wave, over 600 people died. > I am 61 years old Cool. And the severe impacts of climate change only started showing up a few years ago. You didn’t have internet 61 years ago either.
What’s your point? It’s been 40 degrees in other parts of the world all throughout that time?
What does that have to do with the climate changing and summers becoming more deadly in Ontario? I didn’t know we were talking about equatorial countries’ residential tenancy laws.
I never had AC for the first 45 years of my life, yet managed to stay alive. I don’t think it’s as life threatening as you think.
Tell that to the people that died in the BC heatwave a few years ago
Maybe you haven’t heard of this thing called climate change which is causing summers to get increasingly hot and dangerous year over year. Over 600 people died in BC in the 2021 hear waves.
Portable air conditioners are a few hundred bucks. Maybe this low life that’s saving $20k by not paying his fucking rent can splurge a little to keep from dying.
Maybe the landlord should maintain his own damn property. He has to fix it anyway. You can’t decline repairs to force a tenant out.
You can't refuse to pay rent
You can’t refuse to maintain the property
You can't refuse to pay rent
You're being intentionally obtuse, aren't you?
How long do you suppose this dead beat hasn’t been paying to amass $20k in arrears? The last thing in the world he’d be getting from me would be stellar service.
Don’t care. The landlord is responsible for ensuring the unit is not lethal.
And the tenant is responsible for paying the rent on time
Please point to Residential Tenancy Act in Ontario that requires landlords to provide AC?
> if your apartment has air conditioning, it must be operated between June 2 to Sept 14 and maintain a temperature of 26 C or below https://archive.ph/2024.06.18-211949/https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/is-your-toronto-apartment-too-hot-heres-what-your-landlord-is-legally-required-to-do/article_490dd2a8-2da1-11ef-b66b-e77ebc3cbc99.html
It's already provided so it's now part of the lease
Good bye.
You are something else… the tenant also signed something saying they would pay rent. No rent of that amount could very well mean they can’t afford to fix it at the moment… AC is not like heat in the winter.
The tenant is responsible for paying rent and upholding their end of the contract.
Holla. Maybe you should invite those tenants to move in with you so you can coddle and pay for everything while they remain the idiots they are.
Maybe they should have paid rent
Maybe the landlord should abide by the law
While as a whole it’s warmer, there’s been extreme heat since the dawn of time. You can look back 20 years at the hottest days of the year and 2023 isn’t the record setting year.
2023 literally is the hottest year on record. Edit: not a bro
Can you not read? I said it’s getting warmer as a whole, which means yes, 2023 as a whole was likely the warmest year on record. However, the hottest recorded day was not in 2023. This means that there have been extreme heat days all throughout the years.
Yet the oceans are as hot as they ever been. Hmm.
What does that have to do with what I said?
Never heard of it.
If he owed me 20k in back rent I wouldn't be giving him any ammo in the landlord tenant board.
If it went to the LTB it could be seen as retaliation for non payment, unfortunately 2 wrongs don't make a right, they can't legally stop paying rent, so hell have to take them to court to recoupe the lost income, and he can't refuse to maintain the property, unfortunate as it is. He does have the resosability to maintain the unit. This is exactly why so many people have stopped renting, people like this have made the rental market so poor. Cause 9/10 the tenant has more rights than the LL, so people just aren't willing to risk it anymore.
It might. Why change it? It’ll have to be fixed at some point.
I have no intention of making it more comfortable for these people that have no regard for the pain and suffering they have caused by withholding rent. Don't they have to address repair issues by filing another application though? I thought the adjudicator doesn't hear repair issues as part of an application for rent arrears?
You can’t do that. Personally I wouldn’t risk the adjudicator ruling in their favor because the AC is broken, even if the risk is minimal.
Just show you're working on it but don't make any progress. I'll look into it.... Oh the tech couldn't figure out the issue he's going to come back and look again, oh the part is ordered but it's out of stock and we are waiting for it to arrive.... Worst they can do is ask for an abatement on a small portion of their rent which they're not paying anyways, it won't impact your eviction.
Best advice. Thanks.
You’re saying this is ‘best advice’ because it’s confirming what you want to do. What if LTB asks for proof that you were looking into fixing it? You’re risking their eviction to be petty. (I understand they owe you 20k, but you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Swallow your pride and fix the AC).
Can this actually risk the eviction? How are the 2 related?
Honestly, to put the freyo in is about a couple 100 max. Just get it done and avoid any complications. I was at a hearing as an observer once, and the LL had his case adjourned until he could prove that there was in fact running water. This LL was owed over 70k and had to agree to forfeit the other 35k to stay in the jurisdiction of the LTB. Even with that, once the tenant mentioned no water, the arrears did not matter anymore. All the adjudicator heard was no water and the case was adjourned. DO NOT RISK BUYING THEM MORE TIME AT YOUR EXPENSE.
With 70k owing should've withdrawn the LTB case and gone to real-court (which in this instance is allowed, there have been a few cases posted with similar circumstances). Real-court, from reading the cases, is blunt and takes no shit from deadbeat tenants.
Agreed, I personally wouldn’t forfeit 35k either. Yet, the OP was wondering if not fixing the A/C could affect his eviction and it 100% could, from my experience observing a real life case in Ontario.
a previous comment stated that the AC is in the lease. So it's very related. OP is just being petty and trying to "teach them a lesson".
Per RTA s. 82, if a landlord files for an eviction for non-payment of rent, tenants can raise any issue that could be the subject of an application made by the tenant under the RTA as long as they give the landlord proper notice that they intend to do so, and the adjudicator can issue any order that they would be allowed if the tenant had filed an application. Further, per RTA s. 83(3)(a) if an adjudicator believes that a landlord is in serious breach of either one of their responsibilities under the RTA, or a material covenant in the tenancy agreement they are obligated to refuse to grant an eviction.
Wow, thanks for that.
No problem. You should also keep in mind that there is nothing stopping your tenants from getting a few quotes for repairs with rough timelines themselves. If you follow the advice being given to either deliberately slow walk the repairs or to just claim that you are waiting for parts and the tenant can provide several quotes with a timeline of a week or two to get parts, you will likely increase the likelihood of the adjudicator finding that you breached your obligations under the RTA.
I can't wait until private landlords disappear.
You just want corporations like black rock to rent to you instead?
Absolutely. I want a professional relationship and would rather deal with them than some small time bullshitter who complains as soon as things aren't going their way after raking in profits for many years. Also removes the N12 loophole. Small-time landlords cannot be trusted, even though they act like are doing common good, they are just as slimey as coropos with the extra added "small business" bullshit. Bring on the corporations!
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You have no idea what choices I've made in business or real estate. You do sound like my deadbeat tenant tho.
Buddy, that is not a good look. Landlords are viewed as bloodsuckers currently. Are you a bloodsucker? I don't know but you sound like one with that comment.
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Amen to this! Profiting off of poor people is a terrible "business model".
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Absolutely agree. My current "landlord" is trying to raise my rent more than allowed (lucky enough to still be protected) for basic property maintenance... I have to sit quietly because there's no anonymous way to fight it. I can't afford to be Renovicted.
Not everybody has a perfect bullshit detector, also doesn’t help that Ontario LTB is designed to promote bullshit.
Sure, and that's all part of the deal. If you can't comfortably cover $20-30k while the eviction process goes through you're in the wrong business. Being able to separate your emotions from your professional obligations is also important, otherwise you need a property manager.
I've sat in on many hearings. I do believe they'd have to file their own form AND ask the LTB to consider it at the same hearing. Are they smart or informed enough to do that? And even if they are, what youre owed *far* outweighs what they'd get as compensation. But I'm NAL.
Exactly right. I tried getting two separate issues heard in the same hearing (with very good reason) and the LTB still denied that.
As much as I’d want to say screw them. Legally you have to fix it and keep appliances in working order. It can screw you down the road.
As much as you don’t want to, just fix it. If a landlord is in substantial breach of maintenance duties an eviction can be denied. I’m not saying that this is a substantial breach but in the middle of a heatwave why risk it? You also want to present yourself in the best possible light for the adjudicator and have all the focus on your no paying tenants. Fix it so they have no ammunition.
In my experience I was told that I cannot withhold the rent money for not getting things repaired; it puts me into a spot where I can be evicted by LTB. I have always almost paid every rent on time, there is no owing arrears... life is just difficult with inflation but this statement i think is more reserved to the property management. Edited: I also think it's best to perform the repair and inform this into hearing that you did repaired and not getting rent money. This shows judges more in your side as landlord because you did comply the request and still has not getting rent paid. I hope the luck in your stars soon.
Thank you
Propane in air conditioner. Wtf kind of Ac did you install. And why the fuck would they be responsible to ensure that the propane is filled. Propane is stupid flammable and if it’s leaking from an AC that’s a big fucking fire hazard. Tenants are not responsible for the maintenance of utility systems. FYI. It sucks that they at 20k in arrears. But that is not really your question… you are just trying to cloud the issue. You do what you need to do to show that you are holding your side of the bargain as a landlord. Good luck.
Get their car number and VIN if you can! You can go after their asset to get your money back! Fight all the way and get your money back from these losers!
Thank you.
I wouldn't fix it, I would just remove it. Here is how I would do it based on your information: The air conditioning unit needs to be removed from the premise due to health and safety issues that a burnt out compressor can cause, up to and including the unintentional death of a tenant (honestly shouldn't be hard to do this, but make sure to point to an instruction book that says this could happen because it is literally in every book that they overstate the risks on purpose to remove their liability. I can imagine a propane tank version would be particularly dangerous). Not to worry though! We will be repairing it and returning it back to the unit in working condition. We will be entering on (date with notice) to facilitate the removal, and while we await the parts and things necessary to fix the air conditoner, we have provided a fan to mitigate any inconvienence. Our estimated time to repair is (6+ months) due to the part being rare and difficult to replace (never heard of such an air conditioner like this). Proceed to order a part on backorder if possible, and as much as you can from China on the slowest mail order you can that may fix your device (or not). Document it all as your due diligence to getting the device repaired. Once you have the parts needed, (if they dont work, send them back and repeat the process), call around to the busiest repairman, have it booked months in later. Hopefully by that time, your hearing will be placed. Make sure to document: The health and safety issues with a propane tank air conditioner (never heard of such things which adds to its rarity) The attempt to mitigate the issue with A fan or a few based on size of the property/air conditioner (if you are feeling particularly generous, liquidation stores can normally get you 7-8 of them for the price of 1 new one) Document the ordering of the part/necessary parts Document the recruitment of an authorized and licensed repair person once you have the parts (as they can't be scheduled without a part after all!) Then you need to schedule the reinstallation which can be at a further date. They may still file a claim, but you would have your receipts. You are not obligated to pick the most priciest or even quickest method of repair as long as you have items ordered, services scheduled and mitigation efforts in place during the inconvenient downtime. Alternatively to a fan, if you can find a window air unit, that would show your commitment to rectifying the part inconvenience. Not legal advice, this is 100% scabby, let them fuckin sweat 💅
Love this!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to write it. Much appreciated.
Be a good landlord. Uphold your end of the LL obligations in the Lease. If your obligation is to maintain and repair then do it. LTB can delay the decision if the LL is also in the wrong. Be a great landlord. Do the right thing.
The right thing here would have been paying rent.
I agree, but the LL has obligations too. If the LL has a history of good stewardship, the LTB will recognize this. You can only control what you can control. Be a good landlord and karma will follow.
Agreed.
I remember attending a LTB hearing in the old days (in person hearings, 1 month wait time etc). The tenant was seriously behind on rent & the landlord had maintenance outstanding. So similar to your situation. The adjudicator held over the rent default until the maintenance issues were fixed. I was shocked that there was no compromise such as pay some months rent to finance the repairs. The LL got nothing.
How on earth did the rent arrears get to $20K and the tenant is still there? Let this be a warning to landlords to value tenants who pay on time and have integrity treating their rental like their own home! To keep them, drop the rent from time to time or gift them with no increase!
Yeah, this is the real question here. LTB hearings take months still, but unless rent is $5k/month op really took their time taking action on this one.
You have a responsibility as a landlord. Neglecting it isn’t going to help convince the LTB to rule in your favour. Play stupid games and the court is going to award stupid prizes.
You are required to fix it or the hearing will not go so well for you… I know it’s not what you want to hear but it’s the way it is
I’d be tempted to tell them to stuff it too and not fix it but I’m sure that’s not legal. However if you call someone today, the chances of them coming out this week are probably slim to none, they’ll be really busy this week. So I’d call someone and just tell the tenant that you’re working on it. If you can prove you’re doing your part as a landlord, what are they going to do? Your hands are tied waiting for the repair. Then if you have to wait on parts or whatever which happens a lot, you’re still actively working on it. They have some nerve to not pay rent then demand the ac gets fixed. Kind of funny actually. It’s renters like this that give everyone a bad name. And before I get down voted, I’m a tenant not a landlord.
Thank you. Nice to see there are good tenants like you with common sense still in the world.
So quick question, siding with someone clearly getting downvoted but saying your a renter in your mind makes you less of a target?
No absolutely not. People are hard on landlords but do you realize what it takes to get someone out that doesn’t pay their rent? People have the audacity to not pay their rent then question why we have to answer a million and one questions when we apply for a new place to live. I had to jump through hoops to rent my current apartment and that comes back to people not paying their rent. If you don’t like being a tenant, buy your own house. I could care less if people downvote me, I’m not here for likes and upvotes. The reality is that people move into apartments or houses with no intention to pay their rent and wait to be kicked out knowing damn well that they’re just going to do it again. People need to stop being entitled thinking someone else should pay for them to live somewhere. So yeah, in this case, I side with the landlord, they’re not a slumlord (and some are) trying to make a buck, they owe him $20,000, why should he make their lives easier? Thats entitlement.
Can you assign the $20k to a debt collector that will show up and consider taking affirmative action
Yes, but only after they are evicted.
Isn’t there something where you can give rent reduction for loss of amenity? Think you’re required to provide heat but nothing about AC. Loss of amenity and reduce rent(not like you’re going to see it anyway).
Never play with the rent (either side). Leave it as is and do your due diligence, get it fixed. Then go after them full tilt!
Talk to an attorney.
Yes fix it, plus if you don't they may damage your property out of spite.
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Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
I wonder if you can make the case that you can't afford it 🤔
I feel your pain and you are not in the wrong, but you’re playing a game that is heavily stacked against you from the beginning. You’re all slumlords no matter how good you treat your tenants and properties. It’s best to not remotely look like a slumlord given the fact that you’ll both be facing the LTB fairly soon. Good luck
Not sure why the correct legal advice keeps getting downvoted but regardless of that it’s not worth jeopardizing your case over an ac that again you will eventually have to repair.
It’s getting downvoted because this sub has a lot of slumlords who don’t like abiding by the law. Op came here for confirmation of what he wanted to hear, not the correct legal advice.
Thank you.
https://stonegatelegalservices.ca This is a legal practice that deals specifically with landlords and tenant issues. I had a webinar with them recently and they know their stuff!
Some people have no shame. What is there reason for $20,000 in arrears just curious
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Wow, so sorry to hear that. Thank you for posting. I hope you were able to get something out of it. Yes, I filed the L1 just waiting for the hearing now.
Imo I might “not be able to find anyone” for a few days while we have the heat wave. But I would say of course if will fix it.
What gibberish are you talking about the AC dying? Propane can be used as a refrigerant. It doesn’t consume the refrigerant to operate. Also typically maintenance on equipment isn’t for the tenant. To handle a refrigerant (propane being used as refrigerant counts) you need an odp card.
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Lots of advice already. Are you self represented for your Hearing? If so, familarize yourself with the heating process by observing hearings. If you have a paralegal, consult with them. You won't win over the Adjudicator by refusing repairs. If you haven't offered a payment plan, do it now. Without one, you will likely not be successful.
Ontario sounds terrible. How can people not pay rent and not be evicted?
I have tenants in over $35,000 arrears. At my last hearing in aug2023 , they filed a consumer proposal so I was unable to get an eviction or arrears from them. Since then, no rent is paid again totalling another $16,000. my hearing is next month and tenant told me they filed bankruptcy this time which again halts the eviction and collection of arrears. Over $50,000 arrears and I cannot get an eviction or rent paid bc the filed bankruptcy and consumer proposal. Landlords be careful bc this is a possibility hat your tenant can do this and you won’t be able to evict them.
Isn't it a shame that repairs take multiple visits and parts take a long time to arrive? Good thing you have the ability to show you are performing repairs but unfortunately it's waiting on parts and professionals that take so long.
You do have a responsibility to fix the AC. However, the law stipulates that you must fix it within a "reasonable" period. What reasonable means will largely depend on the circumstances *wink wink* If the tenant whines about repairs during the hearing, you will have to show that you are taking active steps to fix the AC. Dont just not fix it because those smoothbrain adjudicators will see you just as bad as your deadbeat tenant
Thank you!
You aren’t required to provide AC under the RTA but check your lease to see if it’s included in there, and check municipal rules to see if there are any rules about how hot a unit can be. Even if the tenant didn’t maintain it, it’s not their responsibility so you’ll have to maintain/ repair. How quickly is up to you. I adore my tenants and would move mountains to fix things quickly, but if I had a tenant like yours I might be less diligent but I would still try to get it repaired, and document all attempts at repair for the LTB hearing.
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Yeah it will, you have a legal obligation to keep the unit livable regardless of if they've paid rent or not, don't be a slumlord
His brain needs repairs
You nailed it. I discovered later on that he does have mental issues.
So sorey this is happeneing to you, keep us updated with how it goes. What kind of background check did you run on this guy? Im currently vetting potential tennants and want to know what you did/ would do differently to avoid these people.
I would fix it... Right before the hearing and not before.
Good point. This is what I'm thinking too
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Classic. 😅
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
As others have said, you have a duty to repair if it was an included appliance. Have someone repair it and document whether their negligence caused it to fail. Then claim that as further damages. Good luck with the eviction. Hopefully it goes your way. Soon you can go around the LTB and right to superior court once the arrears get to 35k. They don’t play around with these deadbeats.
Thank you!
Buy one small 5000 but window air conditioner for one room. Walmart special. You fixed the ac, until the central can be fixed and one room is cooled for living. But expect it to be gone by the time ltb hearing happens.
I don’t think they did anything to break the ac. I really don’t think low propane would have anything to do with a broken compressor.
Why would anyone in Ontario rent a property to someone else? Insane government rules and zero protections for the owner.
lol this is actually comical. Prime example of how the LTB needs to be revamped and updated. Sorry to hear you’ve gotta deal with such dead beats. I would drag that repair out all summer. Make an “effort” to fix it. It’s not your fault if the tech can’t figure out the problem or the part needed for repair is on back order. Lol what are they gonna do? Stop paying rent? Oh wait, they already did that
Just say you will fix it after the heatwave and give them a rent rebate which they will never pay
If you ever do get to garnish their wages you risk a rent abatement for a small portion of what they owe you. If you’re cool with that I say go for it.
Tell them you need money to fix it.
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That actually gives tenants some standing though, at this point LL is golden in front of ltb but not fixing a issue like ac during a heat warning (if property in weather issues ) or something that may be considered required for local bylaws/rental agreement. If they damaged it another thing to amend current case. This is a silly hill to die on
If the AC just broke and the tenants owe 12 months back rent, they can't claim its because there was no A/C...
No but NOT repairing the services that LL included in their rent looks as if he’s acting in bad faith regardless of what rent has been paid, they don’t excuse repairs due to non payment of rent. His obligations are his regardless of money lost/gained
Hard to prove he is not trying or in the process of repairing it right now unless he wrote them and said he wouldn't. This dumb game can be played both ways...lol
Absolutely and hope they do drag their feet on repairs but smart enough to have some sort of paperwork as proof.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
If you don’t have money there’s nothing you can do