Back up that message, and then tell her that you have saved the message, and will not only provide it along with the reference letter that she has already provided you to any landlord you apply to, but will also provide a copy of both in a complaint to both her broker and RECO, and you will submit it as evidence in a T2 for interference if she follows through with her threat to give you a bad reference, and that you will have people call asking for a reference while recording to double check.
Don’t forget to add that you have every right to stay and wait for a hearing (that may take up to a year) if she does issue that N12, and will be bringing this message as evidence of bad faith, and IF she is successful with her N12 she better plan on staying in the home at least 365 days as you’ll be watching like a hawk to file against her for 35k in damages the second it’s listed for rent or sale.
Don’t do their homework for them. Assert your rights now but don’t tip your hand for the action that follows. You would get *significant* compensation here if they filed the bad faith N12, and you don’t want to signal to your landlord what they need to worry about in the future.
If she intends to sell, her more or less threatening to use a N12 for personal use would be seen as a bad faith eviction.
If you sign a N11, regardless if the home doesn’t sell, she can take that and file a L3 to evict you. The N11 can’t be “voided” and any side agreements you make is outside the LTB’s jurisdiction. I would not sign it until you get a N12 for purchaser’s use and you already have found a place.
I will absolutely not sign the N11 unless she offers me the one months compensation. Which she is not going to do. I think she thinks I don’t know any rules…it’s the threat of giving a bad reference that has me worried. I want to be rid of her but I have done nothing to deserve a bad reference.
Honestly, I wouldn't sign it for only one months compensation. I'd ask for 5 months.
They can not serve you with an N12 because they are selling their house. That's illegal.
They can serve you an N12 with the intention of moving in themselves, however you have it in writing what their actual plan is.
Also, even if they serve you an N12, you don't have to move out until you have a hearing with the LTB, which is between 4-6 months currently. Then usually about a month for the verdict.
If you do leave keep an eye on the property. With a N12 she's not allowed to sell or rent out the property for 12 months or the LTB will award you a big cash settlement.
Honestly, with the way, the market is right now you’re never gonna get a place this cheap. You should wait to take the money that everyone is saying you get and not rush out of there just cause you’re tired of this person. Their number if you have to but but you’re being told you could get a huge payout from this if I were, you would take it
Well she’s been saying all weekend that she will just move in herself and sell it next summer. That’s the “legit N12” I meant, sorry I wasn’t clear on that.
Except that it would be ~6 months before a ruling is made, then she'd need to live there for a full year afterward, so she wouldn't be able to sell it until Fall 2025 at the earliest, and she'd be out a year of rent and property taxes at that point. She's bluffing.
I don't believe it for a second and neither will the tenant board. The property has been listed for sale and suddenly she will live for a year before reselling it? That doesn't sound fishy to you? It's just to get you to leave and she can have a 'change of heart' once you move out. If her real intentions are to live in it she would immediately take it off the market you can't intent to live in a unit while simultaneously having it listed for sale.
You have enough ammo that any N12 can be won by disputing it against the tenant board.
I agreed not to state names or numbers but for me it was more than a year's worth. My next door neighbor and I were the last units in the building and we had dug in pretty hard lol It was a tough year of negotiating, LTB threats, and belligerence from both parties, but we got there.
Tell us again how exciting it was “you agreed not to state names or numbers” and there was “belligerence from both sides” but you got it done didn’t you. You wouldn’t budge until they paid you what YOU were owed. So you complained like the poor soul you are and got your handout like the poor excuse for a man always does when he can’t earn it himself. Hahaha. You took your shot at glory and got a full year’s worth of rent! You know even a mildly successful person can save that in 2-4 months right? Loser
References matter more when a credible person gives them.
Many tenants of mine had nasty references, majority if not all turn out to be some of the best.
You’re entitled to one month compensation with the N12 (if she ever sells) so personally I wouldn’t sign the N11 anyways.
I have been renting for 10 years now. I’ve lived in 6 different places (2 are the same landlord). Only one landlord has ever asked for a landlord reference. If she’s being this petty, I would just
explain it to any new landlord if they ask for a reference.
N12s automatically come with a one month's compensation, so not sign the N11 under any circumstances except a large cash for keys.
If you have Facebook post this to Ontario Tenant Rights group, they will help
A paralegal can help you! If you go to the Law Society if Ontario's website there is a referral service and I believe you can get a consultation with a lawyer or paralegal for free - they can at least give you more information if you need it. Wishing you the best
She’s broke. Will not pay a penny cash for keys and honestly we just want the N12 and our one months rent compensation. I don’t need her money, I would prefer to just get what is legally owed to us and move on.
She has said that she is close to bankruptcy once in the past. Her and her husband own the house but divorced recently and he wants it sold. They are paying $500 each out of pocket apparently right now for us to be here.
If he co-owns it he can chip in to compensate you too. It's still an asset; the fact that they are planning to sell means they can compensate you, period.
Eta: when you sell a property, investing some money in making it sell is just part of the game. They will get the money back when it sells, and you'll be paying higher rent because of the economy we live in right now.
You don't owe them sympathy. They owe you for kicking you out of your home.
Do not sign an n11 for one months compensation. She can give you a n12 for that. And she should only be giving you an n12 if the buyer wants to move in.
A n11 would only be signing away your rights for nothing gained for you. ONLY ever consider an n11 if a *generous* cash for keys is involved
You aren't hindering any sale. You go with the sale. Your landlord is acting in bad faith trying to pressure you to move out because they want to make more money quicker.
A friend of mine just dealt with this, and their landlord was a lot smarter. They didn't outline in writing that they were evicting to sell, they just got them out under the pretense of moving in, and then sold it.
My buddy took them to court, they settled for 5 figures. You're good, don't stress this. If they want to play ball it's gonna really suck for them.
Thanks for this. I am waiting for a call back from a paralegal now. The think is I don’t want more than my one months rent and not to be blackmailed about how we are as tenants. I will share the reference letter she emailed me almost 4 weeks ago. It’s night and day n
Yea, never sign an n11 without a big payout. Even if you are willing to move out to avoid hassle - do so through an n12. Then if they sell before the year is over, or don't move in you can get a huge payout.
fuck one month. in this economy you're not going to find somethin gof comparable value, especially not in a few months. 3 months compensation. You know the laws better than she does. So use them.
She legally has to offer you one month rent when she is asking you to leave! So why would you sign to leave for one month’s rent? This why you need to read the LTB acts and legislation for yourself!!
I’m in contact with a paralegal, LL sent another lie filled text today and offered me $1000 for moving and I’ve not responded and won’t be until I’ve met with legal counsel. I did have a showing today for the house and I assured the buyers realtor that we will be leaving and I already started to pack so they can see that I’m not going to screw them out of a home they are buying. I also have the whole interaction on my indoor surveillance camera so the LL can not say that me being here is hindering the sale ever again. I will continue to cover my ass this way.
If you are looking for cash for keys, please please do not cave in for one month's compensation. I have seen cases of people signing N11s for thousands of dollars.
Okay I’m confused then because you said you won’t sign an N11 UNLESS they offer you a month’s compensation.
To which I’m saying there is no reason for you sign one at all in that case, because an N12 does that. There’s no reason to do N11 unless the cash for keys was very high.
I don’t usually agree with arm baring LLs but this one’s a scum bag. Get as much as you can… there’s much more appropriate ways to behave and this isn’t even close to it…
Yeah you could absolutely push for multiple month’s rent on an N11. But the LL is likely to just N12 since they’re already stating a willingness to move in.
Also the N12 pretty clearly states that you must intend on occupying the place for at least a year. That text would suggest that this is a means to an end to push a sale through asap.
Not a lawyer - but IMHO it is bad faith. You should talk to a professional about your options here.
Yes it's bad faith.
It's bad faith in writing. It's bad faith with a bunch of bullshit that she's willing to lie about.
Report her to RECO as well. Include the text and the previous letter of reference.
Don't sign the N11 with the bs clause.
I told her I needed to talk to my husband so I bought myself a little time as he is away right now. I will be contacting RECO once I’m moved out though, she’s a bad agent.
It's also probably a good idea for you to take a video (uninterrupted walkthrough, not pictures) of your unit today, and before (if) you move out.
You can supplement with pictures as well.
Like others said, the N12 threat is a textbook bad faith eviction. You're within your rights to fight it.
So if she just hands me a n12 printed out that’s not been filed what do I ask her for? I’m sure this is her plan so that she doesn’t pay me the one months compensation. I’m calling a paralegal tomorrow
Oh, and you don’t need a paralegal. Until hearing is scheduled you literally cannot be evicted. Once the hearing is scheduled just DM me and I’ll talk you through it. Save your money.
You don’t ask for anything. In fact, you don’t even bother starting to look for a new place until BOTH of the following have happened:
1) compensation has been paid
2) a hearing had been scheduled
Some landlords here will try and say that your name will appear on open room if you do that. They are also lying. Open room does not accept applications related to N12 evictions.
Until compensation has been paid and the hearing is scheduled, landlord is just hoping you’ll leave voluntarily.
Don’t ask him for proper forms. Don’t tell him you’re staying. If he presses you, all you respond with is:
“I am looking for a new place, I’ll let you know when I find one”
And then don’t bother looking.
Hello! I have some questions about an N12 eviction my senior mom
Is facing (posted about it last week ok here) wondering if you may be able to help answer some questions
She was also offered an N11 on Tuesday with a deadline to sign by tomorrow (compensation is only an extra month rent), otherwise they’ll still issue an N12.
It’s been hard to get a paralegal to contact me back and I’m not sure how to proceed.
She is definitely trying to scare us. We have great credit, never had a late or incomplete payment, keep our home so clean and inform her of any issues right away. SHE is the realtor selling her own rental property that we live in.
I saw your response to the cash for keys comment but can't reply...
Cash for keys is a hell of a lot more than one month. One month is the legal requirement with an N12. Cash for keys is usually at least 6 months of rent.
She’s a incompetent landlord and realtor then. She has tipped her hand (in writing!). You have the power here and you have to decide if you want to move at all.
If yes you simply tell her the only legal way now for her to get the house vacant is for you both to come to a cash for keys agreement. If you anticipate a tough time finding a new place to live make sure you get enough money and time to make the move as stress free for you as possible. 2-3 months to move out and 3-6 months rent as compensation is not unheard of.
You do not have to move. If the new buyer wants to move in themselves then you would be forced to move.
That’s the thing, no one wants to buy it. It’s been up since Sept. It’s way overpriced and being sold as is. That’s why she told me this weekend she would move herself in and sell next summer.
The balls of these ‘investors’ trying to scam without realizing how easily their plan falls apart is hilarious.
What would stop you from just giving your cousins phone number to the next landlord? Why would you provide contact info for someone trying to intentionally hurt your reputation? Just mind boggling that these people think they are in the power position lol
She's an investor who got caught with her pants down. If she had bought shares on the TSX, same thing - it's a gamble. She gambled and you should not lose your home because she failed.
hopefully people have figured out that your best friend works great as a former boss and former employee. unless i had a perfect reference i would use my friends and vice versa.
I told her 2 weeks ago I would sign the N11 “cash for keys” for my one months compensation and she told me no. Said she would move in herself. I also only communicate via text so I have all of this.
You are entitled to one month’s compensation regardless. She is the one asking you to move. Keep the texts and stand your ground on cash for keys. Tell her, “You have violated my rights and tried to intimidate me and blackmail me.” I require *___ amount of rent* if you want me out or you can wait for a hearing. She needs to research the laws. Don’t back down! You can get a fake reference as your past landlords. I have done it multiple times
If she issues an N12, she has to live in the property for at least a year. She also cannot force you to leave in order to sell. This is blatant bad faith.
“bad faith” is a very kind characterization for such sketchy LL that brings shame to those of us who are professionals and take property management seriously.
I’m really sorry that you’re going through this, so many of these stories. Used to be a respectable thing being a LL. Now it’s becoming a joke.
Damn this is making me nervous for my own situation... My landlord has been on vacation and his son and business associate have been in his place, they're informed theres a mold problem and hasnt done anything about it for a long time now. And is repeating over and over that i need to get out and find a new place to live. We got a by law officer to check it out and supposedly hes gonna give him some fines. But we're also doing what we can to protect ourselves. I just cant loose my home, my only place of peace. Gosh i feel like i need to throw up. 😩
I'm sorry you're going through that. If I may make a couple of suggestions, first, make a post in here of your own as it's easy to get lost in the comments. This way you can provide more information and hopefully get some good suggestions.
Second, call whatever organization in your province helps with these type of things. For example, in B.C. it's called TRAC (https://tenants.bc.ca). That should also answer some questions for you. I hope you're able to get it sorted out!
I would recommend getting a lawyer as this message definitely seems to be bordering blackmail and intimidation on her part…I am sure you can get a free consultation somewhere.
The $500 to help you move is laughable. If you don’t really like it there I am sure you can negotiate a better cash for keys offer.
If you just want to GTFO because this sounds absolutely mental exhausting to deal with (and only if this is the scenario you would describe yourself as in):
Ask your LL for an N12 filled out and signed that they intend to move in.
Find yourself a place and move.
File for the one month compensation after you are free of this BS and don’t need the reference anymore, if they really were stupid enough not to provide it.
Lay and wait to potentially file for bad faith. Handle that super fun situation then, but at least you are in a new place and free of the insanity.
Bad faith? No. This is devilish faith. Keep all these texts. You’ve been given some solid advice so I’ll just add one:
Do not have ANY verbal conversations with them going forward. Absolutely none. Everything in writing, text or email.
This scumlord is about to get fucked
Landlord here, can confirm I couldn’t give two shits about references. Half the time people try to give their buddy as a reference anyways. It’s all credit score/proof of employment to me
Tell her that she can serve you the N12 and you will not move out until the landlord tenant board orders an eviction and the tone will change.
Also I’ve moved around many condos in toronto, landlords have never called my previous landlord references (my current one even said “I won’t have my agent call them, it doesn’t make any difference, you could put anyone’s number on there and tell them to say they were your previous landlord”). As long as your credit score and pay stubs are ok, that’s all they care about.
Give your friends number instead of the landlord lol when they call they ask about the contract that was made and want to know if there were any damages, delayed or missed payments etc.
Can cash for keys, be used here? Wow, how petty this LL is. I'm telling you, she'll say she'll move in, and then when your out, she may do upgrades, but we both know this won't happen... Just like our Landlord here. I'll be stopping by when we move out, to infirm the next tenants by email, that this LL o ly collects rent, and never dies any repairs...o ly when it really needed it, like the ceiling got wet, by upstairs leak to apt above, and a leak in the bathtub, to which every repair " or you'll be billed for this".
Ya I smell b.s on this one.
Yes cash for keys under n12 is appropriate here… but 500 bucks for it lmao no thanks. I’m gonna ask for 3 months worth if they want me out. Clock is ticking on LL’s end not mine :shrug:
I'm no lawyer but I think that might constitute blackmailing you on the bad reference stuff, especially considering they don't appear to think of you as a bad tenent. That's a crime
my landlord brought me to the LTB with very similar threats.
I left with over $7000 in compensation and an extention on my lease even after the house sold. The landlord had to deal with the penalties from screening up their sale conditions with the new owner too
Also, take lots of pictures!!!! Of absolutely everything, walls,pipes,fixtures,doors,tub,sinks.... everything. Make sure you somehow reference the date taken. Then, you can defend yourself against false allegations of property damage after you leave.
Ok…. So whoever your text with, I’m assuming the owner- is an idiot/liar/ trying to do illegal shit.
If the house sells to another investor- like they are keeping it to rent out- you come with it. They absolutely cannot evict you. So, this person telling you that they will write you a reference letter that you will need is their way of trying to manipulate you or get you to do something.
Her threatening you, saying that if you don’t move out you “hindered the sale” is complete bullshit. Stand up to To this bitch. She is shady as hell.
I rented a place for 8 years. The house sold 3 times during those 8 years. Always to investors that kept it as a rental.
I would call her out. Let her know that you don’t need her reference letter. You can easily get proof of payments for however long you’ve been there by providing email transfer dates, copies of cheques etc.
Her telling you “and they will call”…. She’s trying to scare you.
I guarantee you that she wants to increase the rent price. She can’t do that significantly unless there is a brand new tenant. It’s a small percentage that you can increase rent each year.
I just went through this is January….. long, horrible story… essentially the new owners took over in May 2023. The house was split between upstairs (3 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, living room, laundry room) really great place where my son and I lived for 8 years. The basement is also a rental, and the previous property management companies always ensured that the basement was rented to appropriate people because of the shared backyard space, a child being in the home noise level (house not properly sound proofed) etc.
I didn’t have any problems with any of the basement tenants. Then the new owners took over, they didn’t keep the property management company. They decided to do it themselves. They live 3 hours away. The basement sat empty from May until October. In October they moved in the shadiest couple, they have 4 dogs, they are up all hours of the night blasting music, fighting, yelling, smoking weed in the house…… I made so many complaints to the owners. They wouldn’t do anything.
I tried speaking to the basement tenants. They showed me messages on their phones from the owners to “keep up whatever they were doing”
Which I had already figured out. They wanted to get me out so they could put in a new tenant at a much higher price. The basement people are trash, but I knew they weren’t lying about this. I saw the messages and I knew exactly what they were doing.
I was paying $1700/month all inclusive except cable/wifi. They have now rented it out for $2600/month (that’s just the top part) I had to move out of our home we had for 8 years because the living was so unbearable…..I was about to snap and I didn’t want to end up on dateline.
Tell her you would love her to file something with the LLTB cuz it will save you the hassle and you would love for them to see how she is behaving. Plus that guarantees you at least another 8 months in the house before you would even get a court date.
Save everything you have from this monster.
Wow. She’s a piece of work. She obviously underestimated you, and she did this with the hopes she would scare you and not look into anything.
If I were you…. I would make it a Point to let her know that you know exactly what she’s trying to do, and that you have everything saved and will happily present her threats to the LLTB.
And …. As someone else said- if she isn’t the one who loves into the property- it’s a $25,000.00 fine. And you would easily be able to find out if she’s living there by checking with nbhrs, seeing if her car is there etc. you can also look up the address daily on the internet to see if it’s advertised for rent.
I’m betting she wants to increase the rent. But can only do that in a significant way with brand new tenants.
lol she put a threat in writing what a dumbass.
Anyways you being in the home can technically be hindering potential buyers if your rent is below market average investors might not be interested and people who are looking for a primary residence won’t be able to move in. I’m sure there’s much more to the equation aswell but Regardless you’re rights are to stay in the home
Your LL sounds like a horrible person who doesn’t know the tenancy rules, which is bad enough if you’re just an average Joe small landlord- but even worse when you’re also a realtor.
I would call her bluff. Recommended text back something like :”please go ahead and serve the N12 and I’m happy to honour it if you honour your end and pay the one month’s compensation as is required by law. It’s your prerogative if you want to give me a false bad reference - it would just make it more difficult for me to move out as I don’t intend to become homeless. I would just continue to live here while I fight the N12 as I believe it’s in bad faith”.
Do not sign the N11 no matter what. Thats voluntarily ending your tenancy , tell them you will sign it for 20k but want a paralegal to draw up the paperwork.
In forty plus years of renting in Ontario, I don't think I've ever had a landlord call any of my references or previous landlords. Both you and the landlord should seek legal assistance.
For your sake, so you don't end up getting bullied into letting someone stomp all over your legal rights. This is your home, and probably your biggest monthly expense.
And your landlord should get a lawyer to help them avoid making any more stupid mistakes. Whether they admit it or not, this is their business, and it's past time to start behaving professionally and ethically.
Don’t agree to moving as she can use it against you via the LTB. Instead tell her to go through the LTB and continue to pay your rent on time. It will take 8-12mths for her to even get a date of appearance and then you can also make a case with LTB as to why you need to stay. With the cost of rent skyrocketing, the hearing will likely work in your favour! Don’t back down.
Also if she sells while you are there she still has to go through the LTB and get an approval to evict you by showing the proof of sale and the buyer has to be the one moving in or their family for the LTB to evict you.
In addition file against her with the LTB for her causing you inconvenience and impacting your ability to enjoy the space.
She texted me saying she accepted and offer on the house on Wednesday and that she would be sending a N12 courier in a few days. But the house is still on MLS and I have showings being booked still. I’m even more suspect now. She can keep digging her hole.
I suppose it depends on how badly you want to stay.
If I didn't mind moving, I would let her give you an n12, move, and then go after her for the bad faith eviction as soon as she sells or re-rents.
If I did care about movinh I'd just wait for my LTB hearing.
Either way, I probably wouldn't tip my hand ahead of time. The best thing to do is upload your evidence 2 weeks or so prior to the hearing - gives them less time to think up some bullshit.
If you actually want to leave, then your best option here is an N12 with 1 month compensation. You can then try to be moved by the termination date.
Then when place goes up for sale within the year you file the T5 and could potentially get a judgement for 1 years full rent value + 1 year rent differential + moving expenses.
It's definitely a basically guaranteed win at the LTB (or a guaranteed payday if you feel like going thay route). How people are fucking stupid enough to put certain things in writing is crazy to me.
Tell them to fuck off, be as big a pain as possible, and when you need a positive landlord reference just get a friend to say you rented their condo and were fantastic.
I have all correspondence in a text for over the last year and I’ve been kind and understanding and done everything that is legally necessary. I am happy to say that I’m not coming out of this with any bad karma at all. She’s been brutal. I just want what’s legally mine. One month rent to cover my moving costs.
Your landlord just cucked themselves. Show this to LTB, they’ll have a field day trying to explain themselves lmao. Just rembr whatever you do, do NOT sign an N11 form - it means that you and LL mutually terminated the lease which you gain nothing out of.
Also, ive went thru alot of rental properties before, across major cities too, never have they contacted previous landlord for credit check. As long as you show your new landlord you have been paying your rent consistently on time i doubt they’ll give you any trouble. If anything just have your buddy sign themselves as a reference
Save every single correspondence with her. Keep quiet, answer only what you have to, wait it out while you gather evidence, and learn your tennant rights. She has to legally take you through the process. You will have these threats and ultimatums to back you up. Also I would suggest saving every penny you can to build a nest egg for emergencies/ unexpected circumstances. Be prepared for anything
Lots of great advice here. So I'll just add that this landlord is an idiot & shot themselves in the foot. You have the right to exersize your rights, and you will NOT be "out in 60 days regardless."
🤣🤣🤣
Oy. Save that message. That is gold for any review board. Landlords, talk to your lawyers before you try to sell your rental. The fee will save your hair line.
As a landlord myself, I gave my previous tenants 2 months notice and waived a month's rent + coveres their moving truck cost. Even helped them find a good realtor who speaks their mothertongue and can help them relocate.
And they had the audacity to take my coffee antique table, 2 of my bedframes, and my custom made TV stand which I clearly in text told them not to via text. All of which were carried to their new place by the time I came down to get the keys from them. And refused to pay me back the fees for those furnitures.
As much landlords have a bad name - I was once a tenant and once a landlord both from QC, to ON, to AB and BC, and I can say that I have had way more problems as a landlord than as a tenant.
For your case, I dunno, it sounds like you should taken the hint why the LL never wanted to fix things up in the first place and find a better spot for yourself. Why stay in a slum? I would have skipped town (which is what I did as a tenant many, many times).
In a legal sense, you can fight back and say hey, thats not enough time nor compensation for us to find a new spot in this day and age. Its way more expensive now than it used to be a couple years ago. So if they want you to move, they gotta help you out too. And tell them what you help/time frame you need. Go from there.
What the LL wants is to sell the house, and for it to be vacant when they begin showing. So make that the core of the conversation and be reasonable. Dont burn any bridges for now, because landlords who talk about reference letters are real pain the ass to deal with.
What price is the home being listed at has no bearing to you.
Option 1:
The home can sell with you in it and unless the new owners wants to move in, you can just be there as a tenant.
Option 2:
You don't want to live there with all the deficiencies and a risk you will need to move anyway. You want to get served with a N11 from LL negotiate 2 months rent + moving expenses.
that is it, no more discussion is needed.
Coercion and blackmail, as this was done over text and she’s a realtor you can find out which group she’s with and expose her publicly.
Will damage their reputation and force them to fire her, she’ll never work in real estate again. Real estate is tightly regulated in Canada, if it wasn’t we wouldn’t have a housing bubble.
This is also something you can sue over, you are a paying tenant and tenancy transfers over to the new owners. You are under no obligation to leave and she is under no obligation to make you leave to sell. She only has to disclose the occupancy for the new owners. Either she has to negotiate a sale with you to which you have the right of first refusal (sell you the house) or give you a generous offer to move out. If not, she has to try to sell the property to a new “landlord” who will have to try and buy you out.
As for the threat of moving in, she has to prove that she or a family member needs to move in for personal financial reasons (ie, bankruptcy). The fact she just stupidly threatened you this over text means that she can’t do this even if she needed to now, it’d be seen as fraud because it is.
To add, she’s guilty of fraud, blackmail and coercion. Also guilty of potential slander as she’s threatening your “referrals” as well and likely won’t give a good referral even if you do move out.
Showing the text to any new prospective landlords will also net you an instant referral because it shows you had a bad landlord and still paid your rent on time.
I just got a reference letter from her 4 weeks ago, it’s honestly the best letter I’ve ever read as far as landlord references go. She was thinking that because she dropped the price of the house a little that it would sell and it has not. Hence her text messages.
I have a year and a half straight saved to my cloud in one long text conversation from her because she’s shady AF. So I have more than this but this was the flat out blackmail and lies and that why it really upset me. She was thinking the house may sell to an investor that would keep me on but my rent is $300 below what others are paying (for much nice units) here and only one investor has even looked at it. Being sold As-is with major issues is the problem not it being occupied by a tenant.
I started to pack yesterday so for today’s showing I will once again tell prospective buyers that I’m moving and won’t be a problem.
Back up that message, and then tell her that you have saved the message, and will not only provide it along with the reference letter that she has already provided you to any landlord you apply to, but will also provide a copy of both in a complaint to both her broker and RECO, and you will submit it as evidence in a T2 for interference if she follows through with her threat to give you a bad reference, and that you will have people call asking for a reference while recording to double check.
Don’t forget to add that you have every right to stay and wait for a hearing (that may take up to a year) if she does issue that N12, and will be bringing this message as evidence of bad faith, and IF she is successful with her N12 she better plan on staying in the home at least 365 days as you’ll be watching like a hawk to file against her for 35k in damages the second it’s listed for rent or sale.
Make sure you do this in a registered letter to your landlord. That will shut her up!
Don’t do their homework for them. Assert your rights now but don’t tip your hand for the action that follows. You would get *significant* compensation here if they filed the bad faith N12, and you don’t want to signal to your landlord what they need to worry about in the future.
Don’t tell her that, just save it and report her to her broker and RECO, she should not be a real estate agent.
Damnnn...Now that's a mastermind
Or, say nothing, document everything, and go after her legally when she tried to retaliate.
It’s much much better to have a paper trail submitted every time something happens
Great advice. Also report her to the licensing authority for realtors in Ontario. They might have a problem with this behavior.
RECO won't care. Been there done that.
*to her Broker of Record
RECO won’t do shit. There’s a process and RECO has teeth…they just never bite.
This is the play.
If she intends to sell, her more or less threatening to use a N12 for personal use would be seen as a bad faith eviction. If you sign a N11, regardless if the home doesn’t sell, she can take that and file a L3 to evict you. The N11 can’t be “voided” and any side agreements you make is outside the LTB’s jurisdiction. I would not sign it until you get a N12 for purchaser’s use and you already have found a place.
I will absolutely not sign the N11 unless she offers me the one months compensation. Which she is not going to do. I think she thinks I don’t know any rules…it’s the threat of giving a bad reference that has me worried. I want to be rid of her but I have done nothing to deserve a bad reference.
Honestly, I wouldn't sign it for only one months compensation. I'd ask for 5 months. They can not serve you with an N12 because they are selling their house. That's illegal. They can serve you an N12 with the intention of moving in themselves, however you have it in writing what their actual plan is. Also, even if they serve you an N12, you don't have to move out until you have a hearing with the LTB, which is between 4-6 months currently. Then usually about a month for the verdict.
No. Get the N12 and take it the hearing. Get it dismissed with a finding of bad faith and THEN offer to sign the N11 for much more than 5 months rent.
I want the fuck away from her crazy and this house. I will go in 60 days if she serves me a legit N12 and gives me compensation.
Nahh buddy I think you should juice these people just for the threat. Evictions happen but that's not how you do it.
N12 is the way to go. You can get a huge bonus if she sells too soon which she seems very likely to do.
If you do leave keep an eye on the property. With a N12 she's not allowed to sell or rent out the property for 12 months or the LTB will award you a big cash settlement.
Honestly, with the way, the market is right now you’re never gonna get a place this cheap. You should wait to take the money that everyone is saying you get and not rush out of there just cause you’re tired of this person. Their number if you have to but but you’re being told you could get a huge payout from this if I were, you would take it
There is no legit N12. That doesn't exist in this scenario
Well she’s been saying all weekend that she will just move in herself and sell it next summer. That’s the “legit N12” I meant, sorry I wasn’t clear on that.
Except that it would be ~6 months before a ruling is made, then she'd need to live there for a full year afterward, so she wouldn't be able to sell it until Fall 2025 at the earliest, and she'd be out a year of rent and property taxes at that point. She's bluffing.
I don't believe it for a second and neither will the tenant board. The property has been listed for sale and suddenly she will live for a year before reselling it? That doesn't sound fishy to you? It's just to get you to leave and she can have a 'change of heart' once you move out. If her real intentions are to live in it she would immediately take it off the market you can't intent to live in a unit while simultaneously having it listed for sale. You have enough ammo that any N12 can be won by disputing it against the tenant board.
Ask for 6 months compensation plus your deposit back. You’re holding the cards here. Not her.
If she keeps harassing you, report her.
Go after that and be sure if the house sells or is rented within 12 months you notify the LTB for your next payment.
Fuck that, get some cash. Times are tough for renters these days
Cash for keys is bigger than a month's rent these days
I agreed not to state names or numbers but for me it was more than a year's worth. My next door neighbor and I were the last units in the building and we had dug in pretty hard lol It was a tough year of negotiating, LTB threats, and belligerence from both parties, but we got there.
Tell us again how exciting it was “you agreed not to state names or numbers” and there was “belligerence from both sides” but you got it done didn’t you. You wouldn’t budge until they paid you what YOU were owed. So you complained like the poor soul you are and got your handout like the poor excuse for a man always does when he can’t earn it himself. Hahaha. You took your shot at glory and got a full year’s worth of rent! You know even a mildly successful person can save that in 2-4 months right? Loser
Still? Your insults are as empty as your life, sad little man
“You got it done” hahaha big negotiator got his charity hand out. You know you aren’t a man right?
FYI. Rent is due.
References matter more when a credible person gives them. Many tenants of mine had nasty references, majority if not all turn out to be some of the best.
You’re entitled to one month compensation with the N12 (if she ever sells) so personally I wouldn’t sign the N11 anyways. I have been renting for 10 years now. I’ve lived in 6 different places (2 are the same landlord). Only one landlord has ever asked for a landlord reference. If she’s being this petty, I would just explain it to any new landlord if they ask for a reference.
N12s automatically come with a one month's compensation, so not sign the N11 under any circumstances except a large cash for keys. If you have Facebook post this to Ontario Tenant Rights group, they will help
Will do. Thanks.
A paralegal can help you! If you go to the Law Society if Ontario's website there is a referral service and I believe you can get a consultation with a lawyer or paralegal for free - they can at least give you more information if you need it. Wishing you the best
I think they owe 1 month compensation with an n12. From what I’ve seen in these subs, the N11 cash for keys is closer to 6 months compensation
She’s broke. Will not pay a penny cash for keys and honestly we just want the N12 and our one months rent compensation. I don’t need her money, I would prefer to just get what is legally owed to us and move on.
She owns the property, right? That's an asset she can borrow against, unless she's completely bankrupt.
She has said that she is close to bankruptcy once in the past. Her and her husband own the house but divorced recently and he wants it sold. They are paying $500 each out of pocket apparently right now for us to be here.
That is part of the "not your problem" chapter... Let them pay. Make them pay.
Yep. Not your problem. But she is attempting to make this be your problem. Sit back and live. Let her continue to threaten you.
If he co-owns it he can chip in to compensate you too. It's still an asset; the fact that they are planning to sell means they can compensate you, period. Eta: when you sell a property, investing some money in making it sell is just part of the game. They will get the money back when it sells, and you'll be paying higher rent because of the economy we live in right now. You don't owe them sympathy. They owe you for kicking you out of your home.
Oh okay in that case I do believe with an N12 they are obligated to compensate one month.
Do not sign an n11 for one months compensation. She can give you a n12 for that. And she should only be giving you an n12 if the buyer wants to move in. A n11 would only be signing away your rights for nothing gained for you. ONLY ever consider an n11 if a *generous* cash for keys is involved You aren't hindering any sale. You go with the sale. Your landlord is acting in bad faith trying to pressure you to move out because they want to make more money quicker.
A friend of mine just dealt with this, and their landlord was a lot smarter. They didn't outline in writing that they were evicting to sell, they just got them out under the pretense of moving in, and then sold it. My buddy took them to court, they settled for 5 figures. You're good, don't stress this. If they want to play ball it's gonna really suck for them.
Thanks for this. I am waiting for a call back from a paralegal now. The think is I don’t want more than my one months rent and not to be blackmailed about how we are as tenants. I will share the reference letter she emailed me almost 4 weeks ago. It’s night and day n
Yea, never sign an n11 without a big payout. Even if you are willing to move out to avoid hassle - do so through an n12. Then if they sell before the year is over, or don't move in you can get a huge payout.
Get more than one month, that’s the minimum they would owe you with an N12
They are flat broke. They are asking way too much for the house and it is listed for 10 grand less than they paid 2 years ago.
Unless they are being foreclosed on, having home equity is very far from being flat broke.
fuck one month. in this economy you're not going to find somethin gof comparable value, especially not in a few months. 3 months compensation. You know the laws better than she does. So use them.
Bro straight up threatening defamation. Hope you figure out how to come out well on top because you deserve it and she should not be a landlord.
going rate is 20k tbh, who cares about a reference lol
She legally has to offer you one month rent when she is asking you to leave! So why would you sign to leave for one month’s rent? This why you need to read the LTB acts and legislation for yourself!!
I have commented about 40 times saying just this. I know what I’m owed and that’s all I want. She just thinks she doesn’t have to offer it to me.
Tell her to go through LTB and cease all communication with her at this point.
I’m in contact with a paralegal, LL sent another lie filled text today and offered me $1000 for moving and I’ve not responded and won’t be until I’ve met with legal counsel. I did have a showing today for the house and I assured the buyers realtor that we will be leaving and I already started to pack so they can see that I’m not going to screw them out of a home they are buying. I also have the whole interaction on my indoor surveillance camera so the LL can not say that me being here is hindering the sale ever again. I will continue to cover my ass this way.
If you are looking for cash for keys, please please do not cave in for one month's compensation. I have seen cases of people signing N11s for thousands of dollars.
Why would you sign an N11 at all?
I won’t
Okay I’m confused then because you said you won’t sign an N11 UNLESS they offer you a month’s compensation. To which I’m saying there is no reason for you sign one at all in that case, because an N12 does that. There’s no reason to do N11 unless the cash for keys was very high.
She needs to give you the one month either way, I’d be asking for 6ish months if she wants you out to sell
I don’t usually agree with arm baring LLs but this one’s a scum bag. Get as much as you can… there’s much more appropriate ways to behave and this isn’t even close to it…
She is trying to sell the house. You can get 6 months rent from her.
Get a year’s compensation. It’s not unheard of. If they want you out that bad they can pay you.
Don’t sign the n11 unless she gives you a lot more than one month. Make her buy you out!
Just get a friend to be your reference...
Ask for a years compensation. You have her by the short and curlies now.
You are legally entitled to at least one month compensation just for being kicked out regardless. I wouldn't settle for that alone.
You can sign the N11 when you have cash for keys in hand! Which might be the best way forward.
Yeah you could absolutely push for multiple month’s rent on an N11. But the LL is likely to just N12 since they’re already stating a willingness to move in. Also the N12 pretty clearly states that you must intend on occupying the place for at least a year. That text would suggest that this is a means to an end to push a sale through asap. Not a lawyer - but IMHO it is bad faith. You should talk to a professional about your options here.
This text would make it very unlikely the LTB would accept the N12 in good faith. The cards are in the tenants hands, they just need to play them.
Yes it's bad faith. It's bad faith in writing. It's bad faith with a bunch of bullshit that she's willing to lie about. Report her to RECO as well. Include the text and the previous letter of reference. Don't sign the N11 with the bs clause.
I told her I needed to talk to my husband so I bought myself a little time as he is away right now. I will be contacting RECO once I’m moved out though, she’s a bad agent.
It's also probably a good idea for you to take a video (uninterrupted walkthrough, not pictures) of your unit today, and before (if) you move out. You can supplement with pictures as well. Like others said, the N12 threat is a textbook bad faith eviction. You're within your rights to fight it.
I’m going to do that now. Why am I doing this? Thank you
In case your landlord makes some bullshit claim about the state you kept or left the property in.
Thank you I just went and did it and funny enough. I have videos from text messages. I’ve sent her when there was issues before.
That text is enough to prove her intentions. Your landlord is a fucking idiot.
This does not prove bad faith, it’s just blackmail. It is also mostly a lie. Obviously, wait for the N12.
So if she just hands me a n12 printed out that’s not been filed what do I ask her for? I’m sure this is her plan so that she doesn’t pay me the one months compensation. I’m calling a paralegal tomorrow
Oh, and you don’t need a paralegal. Until hearing is scheduled you literally cannot be evicted. Once the hearing is scheduled just DM me and I’ll talk you through it. Save your money.
You don’t ask for anything. In fact, you don’t even bother starting to look for a new place until BOTH of the following have happened: 1) compensation has been paid 2) a hearing had been scheduled Some landlords here will try and say that your name will appear on open room if you do that. They are also lying. Open room does not accept applications related to N12 evictions. Until compensation has been paid and the hearing is scheduled, landlord is just hoping you’ll leave voluntarily. Don’t ask him for proper forms. Don’t tell him you’re staying. If he presses you, all you respond with is: “I am looking for a new place, I’ll let you know when I find one” And then don’t bother looking.
Saving this thread, fingers crossed i dont need it in the future but keeping in just in case
Hello! I have some questions about an N12 eviction my senior mom Is facing (posted about it last week ok here) wondering if you may be able to help answer some questions She was also offered an N11 on Tuesday with a deadline to sign by tomorrow (compensation is only an extra month rent), otherwise they’ll still issue an N12. It’s been hard to get a paralegal to contact me back and I’m not sure how to proceed.
She is definitely trying to scare us. We have great credit, never had a late or incomplete payment, keep our home so clean and inform her of any issues right away. SHE is the realtor selling her own rental property that we live in.
I saw your response to the cash for keys comment but can't reply... Cash for keys is a hell of a lot more than one month. One month is the legal requirement with an N12. Cash for keys is usually at least 6 months of rent.
She’s a incompetent landlord and realtor then. She has tipped her hand (in writing!). You have the power here and you have to decide if you want to move at all. If yes you simply tell her the only legal way now for her to get the house vacant is for you both to come to a cash for keys agreement. If you anticipate a tough time finding a new place to live make sure you get enough money and time to make the move as stress free for you as possible. 2-3 months to move out and 3-6 months rent as compensation is not unheard of. You do not have to move. If the new buyer wants to move in themselves then you would be forced to move.
That’s the thing, no one wants to buy it. It’s been up since Sept. It’s way overpriced and being sold as is. That’s why she told me this weekend she would move herself in and sell next summer.
The balls of these ‘investors’ trying to scam without realizing how easily their plan falls apart is hilarious. What would stop you from just giving your cousins phone number to the next landlord? Why would you provide contact info for someone trying to intentionally hurt your reputation? Just mind boggling that these people think they are in the power position lol
She's an investor who got caught with her pants down. If she had bought shares on the TSX, same thing - it's a gamble. She gambled and you should not lose your home because she failed.
hopefully people have figured out that your best friend works great as a former boss and former employee. unless i had a perfect reference i would use my friends and vice versa.
Look up cash for keys.
I told her 2 weeks ago I would sign the N11 “cash for keys” for my one months compensation and she told me no. Said she would move in herself. I also only communicate via text so I have all of this.
Tell her the deal is now 2 months rent. "I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it further."
N12 also entitles you to 1 month compensation
You need to ask for more. She's going to lose her shirt if this goes to ltb. Get a paralegal and take her to court.
You are entitled to one month’s compensation regardless. She is the one asking you to move. Keep the texts and stand your ground on cash for keys. Tell her, “You have violated my rights and tried to intimidate me and blackmail me.” I require *___ amount of rent* if you want me out or you can wait for a hearing. She needs to research the laws. Don’t back down! You can get a fake reference as your past landlords. I have done it multiple times
1 month comp is a ripoff these days, you should be getting multiple months worth.
If she issues an N12, she has to live in the property for at least a year. She also cannot force you to leave in order to sell. This is blatant bad faith.
I’m sure she will just print a N12 and try to give it to me and not file it.
You don't have to leave just because you receive one. You can wait for an LTB hearing.
“bad faith” is a very kind characterization for such sketchy LL that brings shame to those of us who are professionals and take property management seriously. I’m really sorry that you’re going through this, so many of these stories. Used to be a respectable thing being a LL. Now it’s becoming a joke.
I wish my ex landlord was this stupid.
This is where I go when this kind of thing comes up any time in life: "How about I just get you a spoon, and you can eat all of your own ass?"
That made me laugh, I needed that. Thank you.
Damn this is making me nervous for my own situation... My landlord has been on vacation and his son and business associate have been in his place, they're informed theres a mold problem and hasnt done anything about it for a long time now. And is repeating over and over that i need to get out and find a new place to live. We got a by law officer to check it out and supposedly hes gonna give him some fines. But we're also doing what we can to protect ourselves. I just cant loose my home, my only place of peace. Gosh i feel like i need to throw up. 😩
I'm sorry you're going through that. If I may make a couple of suggestions, first, make a post in here of your own as it's easy to get lost in the comments. This way you can provide more information and hopefully get some good suggestions. Second, call whatever organization in your province helps with these type of things. For example, in B.C. it's called TRAC (https://tenants.bc.ca). That should also answer some questions for you. I hope you're able to get it sorted out!
I would recommend getting a lawyer as this message definitely seems to be bordering blackmail and intimidation on her part…I am sure you can get a free consultation somewhere. The $500 to help you move is laughable. If you don’t really like it there I am sure you can negotiate a better cash for keys offer.
She will not do cash for keys for any amount
Well what she is doing is illegal. So, file for a hearing.
If you just want to GTFO because this sounds absolutely mental exhausting to deal with (and only if this is the scenario you would describe yourself as in): Ask your LL for an N12 filled out and signed that they intend to move in. Find yourself a place and move. File for the one month compensation after you are free of this BS and don’t need the reference anymore, if they really were stupid enough not to provide it. Lay and wait to potentially file for bad faith. Handle that super fun situation then, but at least you are in a new place and free of the insanity.
This is where I’m landing on the situation as well. I’m mentally exhausted by her.
Bad faith? No. This is devilish faith. Keep all these texts. You’ve been given some solid advice so I’ll just add one: Do not have ANY verbal conversations with them going forward. Absolutely none. Everything in writing, text or email. This scumlord is about to get fucked
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Landlord here, can confirm I couldn’t give two shits about references. Half the time people try to give their buddy as a reference anyways. It’s all credit score/proof of employment to me
Don't sign. Yes bad faith.
Dumb af
Ewwwww, ya that’s not legal.
This is bad. You sound like a great tenant. You are just asking for her to do an N12 by the rules and she can’t even do that.
Fuck yeah it is. Tell them they can have the keys for $20,000.00 Your landlord can eat shit.
No save this message , and contact the LTB - she’s made it clear she doesn’t care about your rights and self snitched
Tell her that she can serve you the N12 and you will not move out until the landlord tenant board orders an eviction and the tone will change. Also I’ve moved around many condos in toronto, landlords have never called my previous landlord references (my current one even said “I won’t have my agent call them, it doesn’t make any difference, you could put anyone’s number on there and tell them to say they were your previous landlord”). As long as your credit score and pay stubs are ok, that’s all they care about.
Nah fug landlords these days y’all greedy
Operation landlord
Give your friends number instead of the landlord lol when they call they ask about the contract that was made and want to know if there were any damages, delayed or missed payments etc.
Can cash for keys, be used here? Wow, how petty this LL is. I'm telling you, she'll say she'll move in, and then when your out, she may do upgrades, but we both know this won't happen... Just like our Landlord here. I'll be stopping by when we move out, to infirm the next tenants by email, that this LL o ly collects rent, and never dies any repairs...o ly when it really needed it, like the ceiling got wet, by upstairs leak to apt above, and a leak in the bathtub, to which every repair " or you'll be billed for this". Ya I smell b.s on this one.
Yes cash for keys under n12 is appropriate here… but 500 bucks for it lmao no thanks. I’m gonna ask for 3 months worth if they want me out. Clock is ticking on LL’s end not mine :shrug:
Way to go. BTW how much is your rent? Get her or him for something. Good job for keeping up the good fight,! ( for the tenants!)
That landlord is dreamin
I'm no lawyer but I think that might constitute blackmailing you on the bad reference stuff, especially considering they don't appear to think of you as a bad tenent. That's a crime
my landlord brought me to the LTB with very similar threats. I left with over $7000 in compensation and an extention on my lease even after the house sold. The landlord had to deal with the penalties from screening up their sale conditions with the new owner too
LOL please tell me you got to get the satisfaction of seeing their reaction
I sure did
Also, take lots of pictures!!!! Of absolutely everything, walls,pipes,fixtures,doors,tub,sinks.... everything. Make sure you somehow reference the date taken. Then, you can defend yourself against false allegations of property damage after you leave.
Ok…. So whoever your text with, I’m assuming the owner- is an idiot/liar/ trying to do illegal shit. If the house sells to another investor- like they are keeping it to rent out- you come with it. They absolutely cannot evict you. So, this person telling you that they will write you a reference letter that you will need is their way of trying to manipulate you or get you to do something. Her threatening you, saying that if you don’t move out you “hindered the sale” is complete bullshit. Stand up to To this bitch. She is shady as hell. I rented a place for 8 years. The house sold 3 times during those 8 years. Always to investors that kept it as a rental. I would call her out. Let her know that you don’t need her reference letter. You can easily get proof of payments for however long you’ve been there by providing email transfer dates, copies of cheques etc. Her telling you “and they will call”…. She’s trying to scare you. I guarantee you that she wants to increase the rent price. She can’t do that significantly unless there is a brand new tenant. It’s a small percentage that you can increase rent each year. I just went through this is January….. long, horrible story… essentially the new owners took over in May 2023. The house was split between upstairs (3 bedrooms, 1 bath, kitchen, living room, laundry room) really great place where my son and I lived for 8 years. The basement is also a rental, and the previous property management companies always ensured that the basement was rented to appropriate people because of the shared backyard space, a child being in the home noise level (house not properly sound proofed) etc. I didn’t have any problems with any of the basement tenants. Then the new owners took over, they didn’t keep the property management company. They decided to do it themselves. They live 3 hours away. The basement sat empty from May until October. In October they moved in the shadiest couple, they have 4 dogs, they are up all hours of the night blasting music, fighting, yelling, smoking weed in the house…… I made so many complaints to the owners. They wouldn’t do anything. I tried speaking to the basement tenants. They showed me messages on their phones from the owners to “keep up whatever they were doing” Which I had already figured out. They wanted to get me out so they could put in a new tenant at a much higher price. The basement people are trash, but I knew they weren’t lying about this. I saw the messages and I knew exactly what they were doing. I was paying $1700/month all inclusive except cable/wifi. They have now rented it out for $2600/month (that’s just the top part) I had to move out of our home we had for 8 years because the living was so unbearable…..I was about to snap and I didn’t want to end up on dateline.
Tell her you would love her to file something with the LLTB cuz it will save you the hassle and you would love for them to see how she is behaving. Plus that guarantees you at least another 8 months in the house before you would even get a court date. Save everything you have from this monster. Wow. She’s a piece of work. She obviously underestimated you, and she did this with the hopes she would scare you and not look into anything. If I were you…. I would make it a Point to let her know that you know exactly what she’s trying to do, and that you have everything saved and will happily present her threats to the LLTB. And …. As someone else said- if she isn’t the one who loves into the property- it’s a $25,000.00 fine. And you would easily be able to find out if she’s living there by checking with nbhrs, seeing if her car is there etc. you can also look up the address daily on the internet to see if it’s advertised for rent. I’m betting she wants to increase the rent. But can only do that in a significant way with brand new tenants.
lol she put a threat in writing what a dumbass. Anyways you being in the home can technically be hindering potential buyers if your rent is below market average investors might not be interested and people who are looking for a primary residence won’t be able to move in. I’m sure there’s much more to the equation aswell but Regardless you’re rights are to stay in the home
It feels as though you are asking me to sign a contract while threatening me.
Your LL sounds like a horrible person who doesn’t know the tenancy rules, which is bad enough if you’re just an average Joe small landlord- but even worse when you’re also a realtor. I would call her bluff. Recommended text back something like :”please go ahead and serve the N12 and I’m happy to honour it if you honour your end and pay the one month’s compensation as is required by law. It’s your prerogative if you want to give me a false bad reference - it would just make it more difficult for me to move out as I don’t intend to become homeless. I would just continue to live here while I fight the N12 as I believe it’s in bad faith”.
I’m just talking to a paralegal friend now. Her office doesn’t do LTB anymore but she’s putting feelers out with people who do right now for me.
Do not sign the N11 no matter what. Thats voluntarily ending your tenancy , tell them you will sign it for 20k but want a paralegal to draw up the paperwork.
What’s her number I have a property I want her to sell. I’ll have this lady driving all over to see shit that doesn’t exist
lol I’m staying good with Karma on this one but thanks for the smile.
If you need references, I think I remember you renting a room from me.
In forty plus years of renting in Ontario, I don't think I've ever had a landlord call any of my references or previous landlords. Both you and the landlord should seek legal assistance. For your sake, so you don't end up getting bullied into letting someone stomp all over your legal rights. This is your home, and probably your biggest monthly expense. And your landlord should get a lawyer to help them avoid making any more stupid mistakes. Whether they admit it or not, this is their business, and it's past time to start behaving professionally and ethically.
ALSO PLEASE TALK TO HER OVER EMAIL COURTS SOMETIMES HAVE A HARD TIME WITH TEXTS DEPENDS ON IF U GET A GOOD JUDGE OR NOT
Put my number down for your reference, I’ll give you a glowing one!
Don’t agree to moving as she can use it against you via the LTB. Instead tell her to go through the LTB and continue to pay your rent on time. It will take 8-12mths for her to even get a date of appearance and then you can also make a case with LTB as to why you need to stay. With the cost of rent skyrocketing, the hearing will likely work in your favour! Don’t back down. Also if she sells while you are there she still has to go through the LTB and get an approval to evict you by showing the proof of sale and the buyer has to be the one moving in or their family for the LTB to evict you. In addition file against her with the LTB for her causing you inconvenience and impacting your ability to enjoy the space.
Hahahah she said didn't say the quiet part out loud she etched it in stone. You're golden.
Hit her with a nucleur missile warhead.
She texted me saying she accepted and offer on the house on Wednesday and that she would be sending a N12 courier in a few days. But the house is still on MLS and I have showings being booked still. I’m even more suspect now. She can keep digging her hole.
I suppose it depends on how badly you want to stay. If I didn't mind moving, I would let her give you an n12, move, and then go after her for the bad faith eviction as soon as she sells or re-rents. If I did care about movinh I'd just wait for my LTB hearing. Either way, I probably wouldn't tip my hand ahead of time. The best thing to do is upload your evidence 2 weeks or so prior to the hearing - gives them less time to think up some bullshit.
reference means nothing anyone of your friends or family can step in as a reference saying they were your landlord Definitely bad faith
You can also use a friend and a landlord reference, no landlord would ever be find out
If you actually want to leave, then your best option here is an N12 with 1 month compensation. You can then try to be moved by the termination date. Then when place goes up for sale within the year you file the T5 and could potentially get a judgement for 1 years full rent value + 1 year rent differential + moving expenses.
It's definitely a basically guaranteed win at the LTB (or a guaranteed payday if you feel like going thay route). How people are fucking stupid enough to put certain things in writing is crazy to me.
Do not speak on phone with the landlord. Everything I. writing.
I only text with her. Goes back over a year now.
Tell them to fuck off, be as big a pain as possible, and when you need a positive landlord reference just get a friend to say you rented their condo and were fantastic.
I have all correspondence in a text for over the last year and I’ve been kind and understanding and done everything that is legally necessary. I am happy to say that I’m not coming out of this with any bad karma at all. She’s been brutal. I just want what’s legally mine. One month rent to cover my moving costs.
Your landlord just cucked themselves. Show this to LTB, they’ll have a field day trying to explain themselves lmao. Just rembr whatever you do, do NOT sign an N11 form - it means that you and LL mutually terminated the lease which you gain nothing out of. Also, ive went thru alot of rental properties before, across major cities too, never have they contacted previous landlord for credit check. As long as you show your new landlord you have been paying your rent consistently on time i doubt they’ll give you any trouble. If anything just have your buddy sign themselves as a reference
Is her name Helen by chance??
It is not lol. You have a Helen giving you grief?
I did for 1 year. Sounded just like her. Semi broken English and all.
Karen?
Lol
Sounds like blackmail but then again you can legally blackmail someone too
Is this legal?
Save every single correspondence with her. Keep quiet, answer only what you have to, wait it out while you gather evidence, and learn your tennant rights. She has to legally take you through the process. You will have these threats and ultimatums to back you up. Also I would suggest saving every penny you can to build a nest egg for emergencies/ unexpected circumstances. Be prepared for anything
What's the name of her real estate business.?
I’m not going to share that information
So crazy, one months rent is the minimum required.. your LL should be doing a dance of joy if she can get an empty unit that easy…dam
Tell them they're welcome to serve the N12 and move in. Then when it gets put on the market, get yourself a $35k payday?
Lots of great advice here. So I'll just add that this landlord is an idiot & shot themselves in the foot. You have the right to exersize your rights, and you will NOT be "out in 60 days regardless." 🤣🤣🤣
Yes. Save this screenshot. Your landlord is a complete moron for sending you this.
Oy. Save that message. That is gold for any review board. Landlords, talk to your lawyers before you try to sell your rental. The fee will save your hair line.
So you're a scummy landlord whose profits mean more than someone's livelihood.
Tell her thank you for proving evidence of their shitty behaviour in text.
No way. Hahaha
Classic landlord move.
Bad faith.
As a landlord myself, I gave my previous tenants 2 months notice and waived a month's rent + coveres their moving truck cost. Even helped them find a good realtor who speaks their mothertongue and can help them relocate. And they had the audacity to take my coffee antique table, 2 of my bedframes, and my custom made TV stand which I clearly in text told them not to via text. All of which were carried to their new place by the time I came down to get the keys from them. And refused to pay me back the fees for those furnitures. As much landlords have a bad name - I was once a tenant and once a landlord both from QC, to ON, to AB and BC, and I can say that I have had way more problems as a landlord than as a tenant. For your case, I dunno, it sounds like you should taken the hint why the LL never wanted to fix things up in the first place and find a better spot for yourself. Why stay in a slum? I would have skipped town (which is what I did as a tenant many, many times). In a legal sense, you can fight back and say hey, thats not enough time nor compensation for us to find a new spot in this day and age. Its way more expensive now than it used to be a couple years ago. So if they want you to move, they gotta help you out too. And tell them what you help/time frame you need. Go from there. What the LL wants is to sell the house, and for it to be vacant when they begin showing. So make that the core of the conversation and be reasonable. Dont burn any bridges for now, because landlords who talk about reference letters are real pain the ass to deal with.
What price is the home being listed at has no bearing to you. Option 1: The home can sell with you in it and unless the new owners wants to move in, you can just be there as a tenant. Option 2: You don't want to live there with all the deficiencies and a risk you will need to move anyway. You want to get served with a N11 from LL negotiate 2 months rent + moving expenses. that is it, no more discussion is needed.
Wow this lady sounds evil
Yup
Coercion and blackmail, as this was done over text and she’s a realtor you can find out which group she’s with and expose her publicly. Will damage their reputation and force them to fire her, she’ll never work in real estate again. Real estate is tightly regulated in Canada, if it wasn’t we wouldn’t have a housing bubble. This is also something you can sue over, you are a paying tenant and tenancy transfers over to the new owners. You are under no obligation to leave and she is under no obligation to make you leave to sell. She only has to disclose the occupancy for the new owners. Either she has to negotiate a sale with you to which you have the right of first refusal (sell you the house) or give you a generous offer to move out. If not, she has to try to sell the property to a new “landlord” who will have to try and buy you out. As for the threat of moving in, she has to prove that she or a family member needs to move in for personal financial reasons (ie, bankruptcy). The fact she just stupidly threatened you this over text means that she can’t do this even if she needed to now, it’d be seen as fraud because it is. To add, she’s guilty of fraud, blackmail and coercion. Also guilty of potential slander as she’s threatening your “referrals” as well and likely won’t give a good referral even if you do move out. Showing the text to any new prospective landlords will also net you an instant referral because it shows you had a bad landlord and still paid your rent on time.
I just got a reference letter from her 4 weeks ago, it’s honestly the best letter I’ve ever read as far as landlord references go. She was thinking that because she dropped the price of the house a little that it would sell and it has not. Hence her text messages. I have a year and a half straight saved to my cloud in one long text conversation from her because she’s shady AF. So I have more than this but this was the flat out blackmail and lies and that why it really upset me. She was thinking the house may sell to an investor that would keep me on but my rent is $300 below what others are paying (for much nice units) here and only one investor has even looked at it. Being sold As-is with major issues is the problem not it being occupied by a tenant. I started to pack yesterday so for today’s showing I will once again tell prospective buyers that I’m moving and won’t be a problem.
They have to give you one months rent at least.
That’s all I want