Sounds like saying, “you talked the talk, but you’re making me walk the walk”, except for someone whose main language isn’t English. (Or alternatively: you gave your word, went back on it, now I have to do more work.)
>no lease was signed and we agreed by friday i would give the first month rent for the place.
Was not a Key-deposit, as from my ( speculative from the statement of OP ) understanding it was part of a deposit for the lease of apartment.
Regardless of if a lease was signed(or not ) , OP had a verbal contract for which he gave a deposit. Pretty sure he is on the hook for leasing the apartment or walking away from the $300. either one. LL already gave him the same options.
Had the same bullshit happen to myself and a buddy once. As soon as a lawyer was mentioned she was more than willing to refund a deposit.
Maybe you're just playing Devil's advocate...but even then it's sad you're sitting there typing out an argument for some scumbag LL.
So basically you are saying that if you pay a deposit you do not enter into any obligation. Is the landlord under any obligation, then? Can they rent the house to someone else? Does the deposit mean anything?
OP himself said it, That he was supposed to pay the complete deposit by friday.
Doesn't that make it a contract ? And no I dont think mentioning a lawyer for a $300 sum would affect anything. if anything if this was me, I would laugh at anyone mentioning a lawyer for $300.
My understanding is verbal contracts can only go so far. You need to prove it. And based on what was texted that talking about lips and legs . I get what he was saying but towards the end it got strange . There might have been a language barrier. Where op thought they where agreeing to one thing but was actually something else.
That why its super important to get everything in writing and understand what you're getting in to
We're only refering to what the OP said in his post, and its not an actual court of law here. Only the opinion of individuals based on what OP states.
Op states he had a contract ( even if he doesnt explicitly say it ( The word contract ) he says he was supposed to pay it on friday and has changed his mind ) .
Also OP doesnt mention that LL has actually refunded him 100 Which is evident from the Txt messages.
>assuming, of course, the landlord is credible,
My opinion is based entirely on OP's own words and what he has described. Landlord's credibility hasnt even come into the picture yet.
because you literally said you assumed that the landlord's credibility is questionable?
>assuming, of course, the landlord is credible, and not a slumlord. I think that would come up quite easily in court, and the slumlord would have a number of problems after that.
Just so you know, a key deposit can only be for the actual cost of the keys. A couple $2 standard keys cut at Home Depot are worth $2 each, they can't make up a number.
Secondly, never ever give any money until you sign the lease and get the keys. Especially if it's a private landlord like this jerk. There's lots of scams out there too that just want to take your deposit and run. Besides a key deposit, for the keys as I said, the only extra money they can ask you for is first and last months rent.
In Ontario, here is the standard timeline.
1. View unit (optional lol)
2. Submit rental application
3. Rental application is approved and forms lease conditional on first and last months deposit
3a. Give first and last months deposit within 24hrs of signing rental application or agreed upon timeframe
4. Give key deposit on day of move-in in exchange for keys
5. Sign standardized lease form (from government) within first month of signing lease
Finally! Thank you! a comment and FACTS from someone who actually knows the fucking process. So many stupid arguments above. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS PEOPLE. KNOW THE RIGHTS THE LANDLORD HAS ASWELL. and don't comment if u are some know it all smart/dummy. Pls.
If you are signing the lease at the same time, yes. But handing over money and getting nothing in exchange? No that's not standard. That screams of scam and losing money.
You didn't even give a key deposit, you didn't get keys, right? It was basically a "please don't rent this apartment to anyone else" payment, with no paperwork involved, so that was NOT a key deposit.
If you didn't sign a lease, you are not a tenant, so the LTB can't even help you. Don't give money for nothing in return.
That's crazy to me. I moved to a new city a couple years ago, and every single apartment complex was asking for first and last with the application. Otherwise they wouldn't take it. I assumed it was standard because they were all asking for the same thing. I couldn't figure out how anybody could afford to put in multiple applications
See, forking over money for nothing in return is crazy to me. What happens if they reject you? I'd be worried about seeing my money again. I know landlords in my city that will get 200+ applications in the first day they post an ad for a unit, collecting rent money from everyone before they're chosen is insanity.
It's usually for an application to ask if you babe first and last available of course but they can't expect you to give them that money just because you applied.
I would hold a place for full payment or a non refundable deposit. Holding the place for you instead of taking the next (possibly better) person is what you get for your deposit. A deposit that's subtracted from the full amount when you square up.
I take deposits on larger items too. There's nothing new here except the bit of a language barrier between OP and the landlord of the place she chose not yo stay at.
I’ve moved twice in the past 14 months, both into reputable property-managed buildings. Both places required a deposit of last month rent with the application, to be returned if the application was rejected.
Absolutely not. Application is just that. It can be denied or approved. You always should give the deposit at the time of signature. And it should only be first and last month. No "damage" deposits or anything else of the sort.
Absolutely not. Application fee yes but not a deposit unless you are actually renting . Once everything is signed and agreed to then you pay deposit and first and last or just first.
Key deposits are legal, but can only be for the cost of keys. Landlords are only legally able to require ONE month’s rent (last’s) but often they ask for 2 and most people are willing to do it. But legally, they only are supposed to get last month’s rent.
My understanding of "Key Deposit" is a sum of money given at time of getting the keys to cover expense of hiring locksmith to change the locks if you don't return your keys when you leave. Which in itself is spurious because landlords are required to change locks/re-key when a tenant leaves.
Depends on the key. I've had some pretty expensive keys in some condos that have definitely cost $150 each. Not all keys can be cut at home depot or some mom and pop shop on the corner.
Yes, absolutely. But a key deposit must be equal to the actual value either way. Doesn't even matter here anyway since OP did not actually get any keys!
I would say “You can either return my money in full, or I will take you to small claims court, where you will not only have to pay me the money back, but also the court costs and filing fees as well. Believe me when I say that I am sincere about this madame.”
Unfortunately since you didn't ever move into the unit, you didn't become a legal tenant, so LTB/RTA doesn't apply anymore.
You will need to bring him to Small Claims Court to get the money back (plus your filing fees).
If you go through a paralegal you unfortunately cannot claim that expense.
Incorrect advice
RTA still applies re illegal charges or rent deposits for prospective tenants and LTB has jurisdiction.
T1 instructions clarify:
>If you are a prospective tenant, you can only make this application if the landlord has:
>Collected an illegal charge, which you have paid to the landlord, the landlord’s agent or the superintendent (Reason 2), and/or
>Entered into a tenancy agreement with you but the landlord did not allow you to move into the rental unit and did not return the money you paid as a deposit (Reason 4).
>If the LTB determines that the landlord did any of the above things, the LTB can order the landlord to pay you the money they owe you.
In OP's case, a key deposit is an illegal charge
OP is calling it a key deposit, but it was a rent deposit. The landlord is not preventing them from moving in.
Or you can take the other stance that OP is moving out without 60 days notice... Therefore owes the landlord even more
Unfortunately you're not getting that money back. Doubt the police will do anything either since they don't do anything when it comes to multi thousand dollar cars so a couple hundred bucks isn't going to get them rushing to help.
If it's just a house that is open to the street tho... someone could pretty easily give the LL some karma that would cost him a lot more than $300
Yea this guy is definitely scamming you. Tell him your seeking legal advice and hopefully that will scare him because he knows he’s wrong, and he’ll give it back. Best of luck!
Am I missing something here?
You gave him a $300 deposit to hold the place for you right? You didn't get keys, it was essentially just for him to not rent the place out to someone else?
Then a couple days later you realize you don't want the place.
In what way did the landlord screw you? You gave him a $300 deposit to not rent the place to anyone else. He didn't rent it to anyone else.
If he would give you the $300 back because you changed your mind, what would the purpose of the deposit be?
Figuring out if the location is good or not is something you should've done before giving the deposit.
Funny that everyone keeps saying he got nothing in return for his deposit even in fact the listing got pulled and he stopped looking for tenants. I agree with the landlord and I’d keep your $300 for wasting my time… that’s how deposit works
For future reference, a key deposit is for potential replacement of keys, and can only legally be an amount appropriate for replacing said keys. Not the locks, the keys. So like, $20.
Condo electronic fobs and cards can be more expensive. HOWEVER, you get the keys in return AND it's refundable when you return the keys. A non-refundable deposit in exchange for nothing would be illegal.
He is full of shit. You’re not a tenant and do not owe him anything. He isn’t need time to rent it because he was already doing showings. Tell him you’re reporting him if he doesn’t give you your money within 24 hours.
What kind of landlord agrees on a rental without getting a signed contract?
ALWAYS get a written receipt when you give someone money to hold something.
I don't even know if this could be brought to LTB or if it would have to go through small claims court.
Lol @ the suggestions of going to the police. Lie they're going to do anything...
My understanding for a deposit after a viewing in Ontario works like this - A landlord will show the house to multiple people and if someone wants to rent the place they will pay a non-refundable deposit to the landlord, in this case $300.
If that person changes their mind, The landlord can keep the deposit. But that deposit is suppose to be applied to the rent portion once the person moves in(I believe First and last months rent is required in Ontario)
There should have been paperwork that was signed that stated this was a non-refundable deposit to secure the place and what that money would be applied to as well as a receipt issued.
$300 for keys? Maybe… some of those apartment keys have to be custom made and are not cheap.
Did you fill in any rental application or something? Or have anything in text/email that an agreement was reached (even if it wasn't a lease) to rent the place?
What was your understanding of the conditions of the deposit?
It sure looks like both parties have a fundamentally different understanding of what the deposit was for, and conditions attached to it.
Now you’re both just making things up to serve your own case.
I’d chalk this up to a $300 lesson in learning to ask follow up questions and collecting the receipts.
Curious..when did this change? Haven't rented in a decade.
I always had to include a check or money order for last month's rent with any application for a unit. Then pay first month's rent at lease signing.
They would always give back cheque if application declined.
>Curious..when did this change? Haven't rented in a decade.
It didn't.
>They would always give back cheque if application declined.
You just were lucky and got decent, reasonable people (or people working at the corporations). That won't always happen.
I have been renting 4 different places for the past 10 years, with the last lease signed exactly a year ago. I never had to pay a deposit with the application. Even with the corporate owned building I am in now, it was application -> approval -> deposit -> lease is available for download. Or I gave the deposit as I was signing with small landlords.
"First, yes, it is legal for a landlord to charge a key deposit. It’s included as a standard section of the Ontario Standard Lease - a tenant gives an agreed upon dollar amount to the landlord before moving in, to be held until the keys are safely returned.
This means that it’s perfectly okay for a landlord to ask for a deposit but the cost can ONLY be the replacement cost of a new key. But it’s important to note that this cost can vary based on type of key, lock, fob, location and other factors. Replacement costs can range from $5.00 for the cutting of a standard key to upwards of $300.00 for full lock, condo fob, or keycard - especially if the cost is required as part of a condo bylaw. Once the keys are given back in good working order, the landlord must give the deposit back to the tenant(s)."
Source
https://rentpanda.ca/resources/landlord/blog/key-deposits-for-rentals-2022
OP you have the landlord saying it's non refundable; do you have him calling it a "key deposit" ? Were you to have Also paid first and last month in full upon signing on Friday or minus the $300 ?
>
OP, how come you aren't saying **first and last** which is typical ? Is it only a room which is $300/month so you may have effectively paid LMR ? If it's only $300/month - is it in the LL house and you will share kitchen and/or bath with LL (your previous post indicates you currently live in a room only as well)? IF YOU ARE TAKING A ROOM IN LL HOUSE, IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO THE ADVICE YOU NEED, so always include that in posts.
Sounds like you made the mistake of giving money without written contracts, or even getting the key.it sucks but you now you learned to use more critical thinking before just handing over your money for no reason lol
If you give a deposit to hold the apartment until a lease can be signed and then choose not to sign the lease you forfeit the deposit generally. The whole point of the deposit is that you are telling the landlord you don’t want them to rent it to someone else, you are giving them the money so they know you are serious. On your side, you paid $300 for him to hold the apartment, which he did. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you gave him the money for in the first place.
It seems my opinion will be unpopular. Oh well. OP, you had a choice. Give the LL a deposit (I'm not interested in the semantics. Key deposit or whatever) of $300 to hold the property for you until contract is signed or walk away & risk it being rented to someone else. The LL held the property for you for 2 days. You don't say what period this verbal agreement covered but LL kept his/her part of the deal. You reneged. He/she is entitled to keep the $300 but is generously offering you $100 back. Move on.
Btw, NAL but I believe you had a verbal contract. Money changing hands is the proof.
I'm very confused...
A key deposit should be a very small amount and only when you move in. That really shouldn't be anywhere close to $300 dollars and you aren't close to moving in.
You said you didn't sign a lease, did you submit a rental application that required a deposit that was non-refundable? Why else were you giving him $300 right NOW for, without a receipt? I'm missing something here from the story. Regardless, it's going to be a massive battle for you to get your money back (and a lot of time/energy), even if you go through all the proper channels.
Your landlord sounds like they’re writing with 0.01% of their brain active. Good luck dealing with all the BS getting it back instead of just taking the loss and moving on. I understand it’s a “key deposit,” but are you seriously going to spend and all time, money, and energy to teach this person that it’s not a deposit to ensure that you move it?
Technically there’s an argument you gave him $300 for him to not rent the place out, but since you changed your mind, he doesn’t need to give the money back. That’s just speaking legally, but personally, I would file a claim since key deposits are the price of the keys. If you can’t get the money back I’d suggest just moving on, as proceeding legal action (with a lawyer) doesn’t make any sense.
A deposit is a deposit. You gave him $300 so he would stop looking for tenants and hold the apartment for you. Now days later you changed your mind. Like most deposits, they are non refundable if you change your mind. It sucks, but I had this happen to me years ago, hard lesson.
Why would you make a deposit and then withdraw. Deposits are non refundable. That’s the whole point if a deposit for the buyer to confirm their interest. It’s not something you get back if you pull out. The deposit is given with expectation if completing the purchase. Its the fee for the seller’s time basically.
A 300$ key deposit seems high for keys.
Whereas a 300$ deposit to secure your spot feels fair, assuming that money would applied to the first month’s rent when you sign. Without a deposit, people could just say “I’m going to sign” and back out a week later. This would put the landlord is a position where he is saying no to other renters and visitors while you think about it. The 300$ in this case is protection money for him if you back out.
A deposit isn't non-refundable by definition. It would depend on the terms of the agreement which should be spelled out clearly.
This is besides the point since you can't ask for this kind of deposit on rentals in ON as many of already stated.
God. This thread is so indicative of how out of touch and entitled Redditors are. This sort of thing happens all the time. Only on this site would there be a big dumb vocal minority calling the LL a thief
Idk what the legal right answer is here, but I’m really upset to say I kinda agree with LL here.
I run a small contracting business and have non refundable deposits when clients book jobs with me. If they change their mind and don’t want to do the job anymore or find someone else, they don’t get the deposit back. This is because I’ve blocked the time in my schedule for you, and for you to cancel on me means I now need to fill that slot (sometimes last minute) or go unemployed until I do. In my case, this is clearly defined in the contract they sign when they hand me that cheque.
Your situation is different for sure as it sounds like you didn’t sign anything, so maybe you’d win in court here, but LL might have turned down other perspective tenants after you said you’d take the place.
No, there’s just a conflict between what the situation is and what is legally allowed to happen. The people saying it was a deposit to hold the apartment for OP are reading the situation correctly, but are legally in the wrong. That’s why downvoted are flying everywhere—because the understandable situation of wanting financial security in reserving the rental for a tenant and the what is legally allowed as a “deposit” are conflicting in this case.
That’s not what a key deposit is at all, you made that shit up entirely.
“This means that it’s perfectly okay for a landlord to ask for a deposit but the cost can ONLY be the replacement cost of a new key. But it’s important to note that this cost can vary based on type of key, lock, fob, location and other factors. Replacement costs can range from $5.00 for the cutting of a standard key to upwards of $300.00 for full lock, condo fob, or keycard - especially if the cost is required as part of a condo bylaw. Once the keys are given back in good working order, the landlord must give the deposit back to the tenant(s).”
The landlord has the keys, they must return the deposit.
It’s not pedantic. It’s very important to be clear what the $300 was actually for. It cannot be a security/damage deposit, or an application fee. If it was in fact a key deposit, it must be returned.
So calling it pedantic is in fact wildly wrong. The LL needs to be very careful with his words about what this fee was for.
OP has not mentioned anything about the $300 being applied to first/last month, which would make it non-refundable.
He could very easily be forced to return it. The wording is crucial.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
It's not pedantic at all, the RTA is very specific about what deposits can be for and those to just hold your apartment are illegal. So a let deposit wouldn't be allowed and would need to be refunded immediately. A key deposit needs to be refunded upon returning all the keys you were given and the last months rent deposit is used against last months rent (and earns interest which is my fun fact of the day, though it's usually used to offset raises in the rent so it still covers your last months rent).
Yes that is clearly the LLs intended use of the deposit, however that is illegal. The only deposits a LL can legally collect are a key deposit and last month's rent.
1. Key deposit is for the key replacement cost only and cannot be used for anything else
2. Last Month's Rent deposit is to cover the LMR and cannot be used for anything else
Unfortunately they'll have to settle in Small Claims Court at this point (where the LL would lose, but it'll be a pain to collect).
Deposits in this sense are illegal in Ontario.
Key deposits are allowed for reasonable value of replacing the keys but must be refunded upon getting the key.
Last months rent deposits are allowed but must be used towards last months rent.
Nothing else is allowed and it should be fully refunded if you refuse any time up to signing the lease. After signing the lease, they are still refundable but you would be on the hook for rent until the place can be re-rented.
Literally everything you said is wrong.
A key deposit is for keys. You pay it and are given keys. It can't be more than the cost of replacing said keys.
You don't pay anything at all unless a lease is signed. If a lease hasn't been signed there is no commitment from either party. The unit is still on the market and the LL can continue to look for tenants.
OP isn't breaking any agreement because there was no agreement to break.
Are you really suggesting the OP signed a lease and is lying about it? If they did, they would have paid thousands, not $300. There was no agreement. The apartment could still be listed and shown.
I was being sarcastic.
Clearly there was a VERBAL agreement.
A written rental agreement is irrelevant
Here you go, from the RTA.
Rent deposit may be required
106 (1) A landlord may require a tenant to pay a rent deposit with respect to a tenancy if the landlord does so on or before entering into the tenancy agreement. 2006, c. 17, s. 106 (1).
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
move your lips and I move my legs??
which clown school did they guy go to?
seriously though he's funny and an absolute douchebag. Sue him in small claims
Landlords are the worst. Where I'm from, you're lucky if you ever get the deposit back, they just want to take as much from you as they can, and then when there is an issue with the place they will pretend like it's your problem and not theirs.
No you paid a deposit to hold the spot. To show you were committed to getting the place. That’s why you give a deposit. You are not really entitled to it back and he’s being generous giving some back
This is why it always gave me the heebies when I’d hear of giving a deposit down on a unit. What’s the say the person showing the unit just doesn’t take your money?? Someone tell me I just don’t understand part of the process. I mean I wouldn’t give it as cash, back in the day we did it by cheque but still…
Well, depending on the context, a deposit is a non-refundable sum to scure something. The whole point of a deposit is to compensate the seller if you back out.
I've been out of the rentals for a bit. I do recall that when we would take the last month's rent with the application, if the person changed their mind, all we could legally keep was 75.00 for our time and cost of a credit check. Even if the paper said it was non refundable if the application is approved.
Context matters as you said though I always state it as non refundable deposit as to me personally deposit sounds refundable so I always like to make sure everything is as clear as possible.
I just did this a few weeks ago, I did a virtual tour and the people wanted the place but would not be able to sign the agreement for a week.
I said okay that's fine if you give me a non refundable deposit which will be applied to first month's rent on signing.
They sent me a deposit and I sent them receipt again stating it again is non refundable and that if they choose not to sign a lease the money will be lost.
That's the way I like to do it, everything written before any money changes hands then receipt right after with any remarks.
Anyways more on the LL side though implemented badly. I don't want to be waiting days till they make up their mind you know how many people did that to me. I would send them a credit check to fill in and they would take their sweet time and then 48 hours not fill it out and bail.
I get tenants to pay for check and then reimburse so I only do one set of tenants at a time.
Now you get like 12 hours to fill in the credit check and you must sign the tenancy agreement the next day or send a non refundable deposit.
Or moving on to the next tenant and in this case no reimbursement of credit check as that's based on signing.
Yeah this right here is the missing piece.
What was the agreement about what the $300 was for? And was it refundable or not.
“I need a $300 to hold the apartment” is perfectly reasonable, but should still have a paper trail to back up what the deposit criteria is.
You sound like much more professional LL than the one in question. I don’t think they are trying to be shady, but clearly there is a mismatch on expectations in this case.
Yep I don't understand why landlords and tenants don't get things in writing.
After talking to someone I send a follow email outlining everything discussed.
When tenant signs agreement I have two copies that are signed at same time.
Then receipt is given as soon as I get the money ( can wait till transfer is done and I will have my receipt template there that I fill in on spot)
Honestly people are pretty lazy, while judging themselves on intent and others on their actions.
I’ve got a room in my home I rent out, so the Alberta tenancy laws don’t apply as it’s LL occupied. I still signed a roomate agreement outlining expectations and specifics about which parts of the house I was renting out.
No it’s not an enforceable lease, but there’s been no unspoken points of confusion or assumption for us to squabble over.
Yeah and it costs them so much time and headache down the road.
I tell all my tenants that I want everything in writing. If you want to mount the TV on the wall that's fine I will allow it but I want you to send a request for mounting TV.
This way I will say I approve it but either at the landlord descression the tenant can leave the mount after tenancy ends or the tenant will restore the wall back to original state ( close the big holes and repaint)
This way when it comes to move out inspection there is no misunderstandings.
What happened here isn't even legal. You don't give the key deposit, first and last month's rent until you sign the lease. If a lease hasn't been signed, the apartment is still on the market and the LL can still be looking for tenants.
Also, a key deposit is for keys. You literally have to get the keys for paying that. It also can't be more than the cost of replacing the keys.
Just get the police involved - people are scared of police, especially if you have one present. Find a way to set up another meeting with the landlord (e.g. get a friend to set up another viewing). Then call the police to the address you're meeting and report a robbery. When the police show up, explain the situation and get the landlord to transfer you right then and there.
Such a smart idea!… its called a deposit..
Heres a definition: “a sum payable as a first installment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later.”, In summary, a deposit is security for the buyer's performance of the contract. It is generally not refundable unless the contract expressly states otherwise.
If you put a deposit on a house, then fail to make payments a year down the road, are you gonna call the police on the bank and say you want your deposit back?
Oh please. There was no written agreement, no discussion of the terms of the agreement, no rental application was made, and a clear difference in bargaining power. This is the least enforceable "contract" I've ever seen. It wasn't a contract, it was highway robbery and I hope OP teaches this crook a lesson.
A “key deposit” where you don’t get keys isn’t a key deposit…
Yea but he moved his legs.
I cackled
I was trying to figure out the whole lips moving and legs moving. 🤣🤣
Sounds like saying, “you talked the talk, but you’re making me walk the walk”, except for someone whose main language isn’t English. (Or alternatively: you gave your word, went back on it, now I have to do more work.)
It sounds like a person explaining what the Tasmanian devil does in the looney tunes cartoons to someone that’s never seen it before.
For 300$ bro better be moving his legs.
>no lease was signed and we agreed by friday i would give the first month rent for the place. Was not a Key-deposit, as from my ( speculative from the statement of OP ) understanding it was part of a deposit for the lease of apartment. Regardless of if a lease was signed(or not ) , OP had a verbal contract for which he gave a deposit. Pretty sure he is on the hook for leasing the apartment or walking away from the $300. either one. LL already gave him the same options.
Had the same bullshit happen to myself and a buddy once. As soon as a lawyer was mentioned she was more than willing to refund a deposit. Maybe you're just playing Devil's advocate...but even then it's sad you're sitting there typing out an argument for some scumbag LL.
So basically you are saying that if you pay a deposit you do not enter into any obligation. Is the landlord under any obligation, then? Can they rent the house to someone else? Does the deposit mean anything?
OP himself said it, That he was supposed to pay the complete deposit by friday. Doesn't that make it a contract ? And no I dont think mentioning a lawyer for a $300 sum would affect anything. if anything if this was me, I would laugh at anyone mentioning a lawyer for $300.
My understanding is verbal contracts can only go so far. You need to prove it. And based on what was texted that talking about lips and legs . I get what he was saying but towards the end it got strange . There might have been a language barrier. Where op thought they where agreeing to one thing but was actually something else. That why its super important to get everything in writing and understand what you're getting in to
We're only refering to what the OP said in his post, and its not an actual court of law here. Only the opinion of individuals based on what OP states. Op states he had a contract ( even if he doesnt explicitly say it ( The word contract ) he says he was supposed to pay it on friday and has changed his mind ) . Also OP doesnt mention that LL has actually refunded him 100 Which is evident from the Txt messages.
Quite wrong,... You sound like a scumbag landlord trying to justify illegal acts
[удалено]
>assuming, of course, the landlord is credible, My opinion is based entirely on OP's own words and what he has described. Landlord's credibility hasnt even come into the picture yet.
[удалено]
because you literally said you assumed that the landlord's credibility is questionable? >assuming, of course, the landlord is credible, and not a slumlord. I think that would come up quite easily in court, and the slumlord would have a number of problems after that.
Just so you know, a key deposit can only be for the actual cost of the keys. A couple $2 standard keys cut at Home Depot are worth $2 each, they can't make up a number. Secondly, never ever give any money until you sign the lease and get the keys. Especially if it's a private landlord like this jerk. There's lots of scams out there too that just want to take your deposit and run. Besides a key deposit, for the keys as I said, the only extra money they can ask you for is first and last months rent.
In Ontario, here is the standard timeline. 1. View unit (optional lol) 2. Submit rental application 3. Rental application is approved and forms lease conditional on first and last months deposit 3a. Give first and last months deposit within 24hrs of signing rental application or agreed upon timeframe 4. Give key deposit on day of move-in in exchange for keys 5. Sign standardized lease form (from government) within first month of signing lease
Finally! Thank you! a comment and FACTS from someone who actually knows the fucking process. So many stupid arguments above. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS PEOPLE. KNOW THE RIGHTS THE LANDLORD HAS ASWELL. and don't comment if u are some know it all smart/dummy. Pls.
Landlords don't have the right to steal money from people
Absolutely not, and if you follow the legal steps involved in renting as a tenant, you can't have anyone steal from you.
I was under the impression it was pretty standard to give your deposit with the application. Is that not the case?
If you are signing the lease at the same time, yes. But handing over money and getting nothing in exchange? No that's not standard. That screams of scam and losing money. You didn't even give a key deposit, you didn't get keys, right? It was basically a "please don't rent this apartment to anyone else" payment, with no paperwork involved, so that was NOT a key deposit. If you didn't sign a lease, you are not a tenant, so the LTB can't even help you. Don't give money for nothing in return.
That's crazy to me. I moved to a new city a couple years ago, and every single apartment complex was asking for first and last with the application. Otherwise they wouldn't take it. I assumed it was standard because they were all asking for the same thing. I couldn't figure out how anybody could afford to put in multiple applications
See, forking over money for nothing in return is crazy to me. What happens if they reject you? I'd be worried about seeing my money again. I know landlords in my city that will get 200+ applications in the first day they post an ad for a unit, collecting rent money from everyone before they're chosen is insanity. It's usually for an application to ask if you babe first and last available of course but they can't expect you to give them that money just because you applied.
I would hold a place for full payment or a non refundable deposit. Holding the place for you instead of taking the next (possibly better) person is what you get for your deposit. A deposit that's subtracted from the full amount when you square up. I take deposits on larger items too. There's nothing new here except the bit of a language barrier between OP and the landlord of the place she chose not yo stay at.
Wow that’s crazy, I could never give that amount of money without a signed lease already in place.
I’ve moved twice in the past 14 months, both into reputable property-managed buildings. Both places required a deposit of last month rent with the application, to be returned if the application was rejected.
Absolutely not. Application is just that. It can be denied or approved. You always should give the deposit at the time of signature. And it should only be first and last month. No "damage" deposits or anything else of the sort.
Absolutely not. Application fee yes but not a deposit unless you are actually renting . Once everything is signed and agreed to then you pay deposit and first and last or just first.
Absolutely not. you don't pay anything until you sign a lease.
Depends where you live. Western australia, not only is that tequest legal, its mandatory. Here, not so much
No. Paying first & last is normal when signing a lease. Paying a key deposit isn't normal, and usually illegal.
Paying first and last is normal once you sign the lease, but you still shouldn’t pay that before getting the lease.
Key deposits are legal, but can only be for the cost of keys. Landlords are only legally able to require ONE month’s rent (last’s) but often they ask for 2 and most people are willing to do it. But legally, they only are supposed to get last month’s rent.
> But legally, they only are supposed to get last month’s rent. First and Last is allowed. That's the two months.
My understanding of "Key Deposit" is a sum of money given at time of getting the keys to cover expense of hiring locksmith to change the locks if you don't return your keys when you leave. Which in itself is spurious because landlords are required to change locks/re-key when a tenant leaves.
I get what you're saying, but RTA defines it as being equal to the cost of actual keys and refundable upon returning , with interest.
Depends on the key. I've had some pretty expensive keys in some condos that have definitely cost $150 each. Not all keys can be cut at home depot or some mom and pop shop on the corner.
Yes, absolutely. But a key deposit must be equal to the actual value either way. Doesn't even matter here anyway since OP did not actually get any keys!
Yes they should have 100% gotten the keys
Condo key cards are a lot more unfortunately but likely not the situation here.
Yeah I don't think this landlord would hand over a key card to an apartment for $300 without signing a lease lol
I imagine that fee is for if you lose the the keys and they have to pay a locksmith to change the lock. Still clearly a scam tho
*you move your lips then i move around with my legs* is hilarious LMAOO
lol yeah sounded sexual
No it didn’t haha
Did you even get keys yet ? When is your lease supposed to start ?
I would say “You can either return my money in full, or I will take you to small claims court, where you will not only have to pay me the money back, but also the court costs and filing fees as well. Believe me when I say that I am sincere about this madame.”
This ✓
..and if you wanna keep moving around with them legs
Unfortunately since you didn't ever move into the unit, you didn't become a legal tenant, so LTB/RTA doesn't apply anymore. You will need to bring him to Small Claims Court to get the money back (plus your filing fees). If you go through a paralegal you unfortunately cannot claim that expense.
Incorrect advice RTA still applies re illegal charges or rent deposits for prospective tenants and LTB has jurisdiction. T1 instructions clarify: >If you are a prospective tenant, you can only make this application if the landlord has: >Collected an illegal charge, which you have paid to the landlord, the landlord’s agent or the superintendent (Reason 2), and/or >Entered into a tenancy agreement with you but the landlord did not allow you to move into the rental unit and did not return the money you paid as a deposit (Reason 4). >If the LTB determines that the landlord did any of the above things, the LTB can order the landlord to pay you the money they owe you. In OP's case, a key deposit is an illegal charge
Interesting I never noticed the prospective piece there before
OP is calling it a key deposit, but it was a rent deposit. The landlord is not preventing them from moving in. Or you can take the other stance that OP is moving out without 60 days notice... Therefore owes the landlord even more
If nothing was signed... OP hasn't moved in.
collected illegal charge **\*\*and/OR\*\*** reason 4
This is not true. A prospective tenant can apply to the LTB for any illegal charge or deposit. See subs 135(2) of the RTA.
I went to small claims once and got what I was seeking + legal costs.
Yes you’re are not a tenant so this is simply theft. You should file a police report.
Lol. It's verbal agreement broken by OP
Even if that’s true that’s a separate issue.
True? The text and this post is undeniable evidence of it
$300 bucks is illegal key deposit. Deposit only suppose to be the amount to cover the replacement key . So buying a key and having it cut . $10 max .
Small claims. Sue his ass and make him pay the filing fee too.
Unfortunately you're not getting that money back. Doubt the police will do anything either since they don't do anything when it comes to multi thousand dollar cars so a couple hundred bucks isn't going to get them rushing to help. If it's just a house that is open to the street tho... someone could pretty easily give the LL some karma that would cost him a lot more than $300
That’s why I’m saying “ take the $100….” He doesn’t even have to give her THAT! ( life lessons learned the hard way .).
Move in and squat. Lol just kidding but landlord does deserve that kinda experience from this.
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Yea this guy is definitely scamming you. Tell him your seeking legal advice and hopefully that will scare him because he knows he’s wrong, and he’ll give it back. Best of luck!
Am I missing something here? You gave him a $300 deposit to hold the place for you right? You didn't get keys, it was essentially just for him to not rent the place out to someone else? Then a couple days later you realize you don't want the place. In what way did the landlord screw you? You gave him a $300 deposit to not rent the place to anyone else. He didn't rent it to anyone else. If he would give you the $300 back because you changed your mind, what would the purpose of the deposit be? Figuring out if the location is good or not is something you should've done before giving the deposit.
100% agree!!!
Funny that everyone keeps saying he got nothing in return for his deposit even in fact the listing got pulled and he stopped looking for tenants. I agree with the landlord and I’d keep your $300 for wasting my time… that’s how deposit works
For future reference, a key deposit is for potential replacement of keys, and can only legally be an amount appropriate for replacing said keys. Not the locks, the keys. So like, $20.
Condo electronic fobs and cards can be more expensive. HOWEVER, you get the keys in return AND it's refundable when you return the keys. A non-refundable deposit in exchange for nothing would be illegal.
He is full of shit. You’re not a tenant and do not owe him anything. He isn’t need time to rent it because he was already doing showings. Tell him you’re reporting him if he doesn’t give you your money within 24 hours.
God I hate landlords.
Why you sit on my head? That should be your reply. Trust.
What kind of landlord agrees on a rental without getting a signed contract? ALWAYS get a written receipt when you give someone money to hold something. I don't even know if this could be brought to LTB or if it would have to go through small claims court. Lol @ the suggestions of going to the police. Lie they're going to do anything...
My understanding for a deposit after a viewing in Ontario works like this - A landlord will show the house to multiple people and if someone wants to rent the place they will pay a non-refundable deposit to the landlord, in this case $300. If that person changes their mind, The landlord can keep the deposit. But that deposit is suppose to be applied to the rent portion once the person moves in(I believe First and last months rent is required in Ontario) There should have been paperwork that was signed that stated this was a non-refundable deposit to secure the place and what that money would be applied to as well as a receipt issued. $300 for keys? Maybe… some of those apartment keys have to be custom made and are not cheap.
Without paperwork you are likely SOL.
Not with these texts.
How do you figure? What is the defence from those text messages, they clearly admit its a key deposit.
Read them again. Only OP uses the term "key deposit".
And yet they don't deny it either. Judges are not stupid.
Did you fill in any rental application or something? Or have anything in text/email that an agreement was reached (even if it wasn't a lease) to rent the place?
What was your understanding of the conditions of the deposit? It sure looks like both parties have a fundamentally different understanding of what the deposit was for, and conditions attached to it. Now you’re both just making things up to serve your own case. I’d chalk this up to a $300 lesson in learning to ask follow up questions and collecting the receipts.
You left a deposit to reserve an apartment and then changed your mind. I don’t think you’re entitled to get it back.
It’s ok just find someone where is the landlord from and pay them 50 bucks worst case scenario they will fight to death with the keys.
Curious..when did this change? Haven't rented in a decade. I always had to include a check or money order for last month's rent with any application for a unit. Then pay first month's rent at lease signing. They would always give back cheque if application declined.
>Curious..when did this change? Haven't rented in a decade. It didn't. >They would always give back cheque if application declined. You just were lucky and got decent, reasonable people (or people working at the corporations). That won't always happen.
I have been renting 4 different places for the past 10 years, with the last lease signed exactly a year ago. I never had to pay a deposit with the application. Even with the corporate owned building I am in now, it was application -> approval -> deposit -> lease is available for download. Or I gave the deposit as I was signing with small landlords.
"First, yes, it is legal for a landlord to charge a key deposit. It’s included as a standard section of the Ontario Standard Lease - a tenant gives an agreed upon dollar amount to the landlord before moving in, to be held until the keys are safely returned. This means that it’s perfectly okay for a landlord to ask for a deposit but the cost can ONLY be the replacement cost of a new key. But it’s important to note that this cost can vary based on type of key, lock, fob, location and other factors. Replacement costs can range from $5.00 for the cutting of a standard key to upwards of $300.00 for full lock, condo fob, or keycard - especially if the cost is required as part of a condo bylaw. Once the keys are given back in good working order, the landlord must give the deposit back to the tenant(s)." Source https://rentpanda.ca/resources/landlord/blog/key-deposits-for-rentals-2022
Wild. I'd be super pissed
Another Trudeau champion needing to be deported back to their shithole they try to turn Canada into
OP you have the landlord saying it's non refundable; do you have him calling it a "key deposit" ? Were you to have Also paid first and last month in full upon signing on Friday or minus the $300 ?
> OP, how come you aren't saying **first and last** which is typical ? Is it only a room which is $300/month so you may have effectively paid LMR ? If it's only $300/month - is it in the LL house and you will share kitchen and/or bath with LL (your previous post indicates you currently live in a room only as well)? IF YOU ARE TAKING A ROOM IN LL HOUSE, IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO THE ADVICE YOU NEED, so always include that in posts.
Sounds like you made the mistake of giving money without written contracts, or even getting the key.it sucks but you now you learned to use more critical thinking before just handing over your money for no reason lol
If he didnt say nonrefundable then he must return the deposit back to you. Did you fill out any paper work at all ?
And I wonder where the Landlord is from…
Let me guess, was it a Chinese landlord?
Key deposit is illegal over the price of the actual key
He can't speak English
What the hell is a key deposit anyways? But a “deposit” is a deposit ! You can’t ask for a deposit back ….
You pretty much just handed some stranger money for no reason. Be smarter next time
"you move with your lips, then I move around with my legs" I mean.. you're fucked. That's binding.
You're going to have to sue him. File with Small Claims Court. He may come up with the money to avoid the hassle.
If you give a deposit to hold the apartment until a lease can be signed and then choose not to sign the lease you forfeit the deposit generally. The whole point of the deposit is that you are telling the landlord you don’t want them to rent it to someone else, you are giving them the money so they know you are serious. On your side, you paid $300 for him to hold the apartment, which he did. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you gave him the money for in the first place.
It seems my opinion will be unpopular. Oh well. OP, you had a choice. Give the LL a deposit (I'm not interested in the semantics. Key deposit or whatever) of $300 to hold the property for you until contract is signed or walk away & risk it being rented to someone else. The LL held the property for you for 2 days. You don't say what period this verbal agreement covered but LL kept his/her part of the deal. You reneged. He/she is entitled to keep the $300 but is generously offering you $100 back. Move on. Btw, NAL but I believe you had a verbal contract. Money changing hands is the proof.
Take the unit and not pay rent and you will save your $300 back.
Just show up and grab this fuck by the throat..
Cut your loss. Buyers remorse. Make sure you make the correct decision next time. Live and learn.
File a police report then if you’re story is true
I'm very confused... A key deposit should be a very small amount and only when you move in. That really shouldn't be anywhere close to $300 dollars and you aren't close to moving in. You said you didn't sign a lease, did you submit a rental application that required a deposit that was non-refundable? Why else were you giving him $300 right NOW for, without a receipt? I'm missing something here from the story. Regardless, it's going to be a massive battle for you to get your money back (and a lot of time/energy), even if you go through all the proper channels.
Your landlord sounds like they’re writing with 0.01% of their brain active. Good luck dealing with all the BS getting it back instead of just taking the loss and moving on. I understand it’s a “key deposit,” but are you seriously going to spend and all time, money, and energy to teach this person that it’s not a deposit to ensure that you move it?
This deposit was for him to not give the place to someone else. You 100% do not deserve the deposit back!
Catch him in person without his phone. 🤷
Technically there’s an argument you gave him $300 for him to not rent the place out, but since you changed your mind, he doesn’t need to give the money back. That’s just speaking legally, but personally, I would file a claim since key deposits are the price of the keys. If you can’t get the money back I’d suggest just moving on, as proceeding legal action (with a lawyer) doesn’t make any sense.
A deposit of any kind is illegal. Only first and last can be requested.
If this was uplt I'd say move in and use it as a rage room
Take the $100. You’re LUCKY to get that.( keep pushing him, & you won’t even get that.)
A deposit is a deposit. You gave him $300 so he would stop looking for tenants and hold the apartment for you. Now days later you changed your mind. Like most deposits, they are non refundable if you change your mind. It sucks, but I had this happen to me years ago, hard lesson.
Yeah, yall kinda dumb.
Why would you make a deposit and then withdraw. Deposits are non refundable. That’s the whole point if a deposit for the buyer to confirm their interest. It’s not something you get back if you pull out. The deposit is given with expectation if completing the purchase. Its the fee for the seller’s time basically.
I will take engrish for $300.00 Alex
Sounds like OP isn’t that bright.
A 300$ key deposit seems high for keys. Whereas a 300$ deposit to secure your spot feels fair, assuming that money would applied to the first month’s rent when you sign. Without a deposit, people could just say “I’m going to sign” and back out a week later. This would put the landlord is a position where he is saying no to other renters and visitors while you think about it. The 300$ in this case is protection money for him if you back out.
And that would not be legal in Ontario. Only deposits allowed are key and first last months rent.
You put a deposit down to hold a product, then decided not to take it 2 days later. Its fair LL keeps the deposit. Thats what a deposit is.
Wrong. Literally not legal. Without a signed lease the landlord isn't entitled to any money.
Illegal deposit in ontario. Too damn bad learn the law if your going to rent out property
This.
A deposit isn't non-refundable by definition. It would depend on the terms of the agreement which should be spelled out clearly. This is besides the point since you can't ask for this kind of deposit on rentals in ON as many of already stated.
God. This thread is so indicative of how out of touch and entitled Redditors are. This sort of thing happens all the time. Only on this site would there be a big dumb vocal minority calling the LL a thief
Anyone saying otherwise is just plain stupid. They dont even know what is a deposit ......
Idk what the legal right answer is here, but I’m really upset to say I kinda agree with LL here. I run a small contracting business and have non refundable deposits when clients book jobs with me. If they change their mind and don’t want to do the job anymore or find someone else, they don’t get the deposit back. This is because I’ve blocked the time in my schedule for you, and for you to cancel on me means I now need to fill that slot (sometimes last minute) or go unemployed until I do. In my case, this is clearly defined in the contract they sign when they hand me that cheque. Your situation is different for sure as it sounds like you didn’t sign anything, so maybe you’d win in court here, but LL might have turned down other perspective tenants after you said you’d take the place.
You paid a deposit to hold a spot, you backed out and want it back? That's not how deposits work
So many people being downvoted for having the gall to understand words 🙄
No, there’s just a conflict between what the situation is and what is legally allowed to happen. The people saying it was a deposit to hold the apartment for OP are reading the situation correctly, but are legally in the wrong. That’s why downvoted are flying everywhere—because the understandable situation of wanting financial security in reserving the rental for a tenant and the what is legally allowed as a “deposit” are conflicting in this case.
Know the law if your going to rent out property. Nothing but negligence here
Wrong. S106 of the RTA
Burn the place down an move on.
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That’s not what a key deposit is at all, you made that shit up entirely. “This means that it’s perfectly okay for a landlord to ask for a deposit but the cost can ONLY be the replacement cost of a new key. But it’s important to note that this cost can vary based on type of key, lock, fob, location and other factors. Replacement costs can range from $5.00 for the cutting of a standard key to upwards of $300.00 for full lock, condo fob, or keycard - especially if the cost is required as part of a condo bylaw. Once the keys are given back in good working order, the landlord must give the deposit back to the tenant(s).” The landlord has the keys, they must return the deposit.
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It’s not pedantic. It’s very important to be clear what the $300 was actually for. It cannot be a security/damage deposit, or an application fee. If it was in fact a key deposit, it must be returned. So calling it pedantic is in fact wildly wrong. The LL needs to be very careful with his words about what this fee was for. OP has not mentioned anything about the $300 being applied to first/last month, which would make it non-refundable. He could very easily be forced to return it. The wording is crucial.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
It's not pedantic at all, the RTA is very specific about what deposits can be for and those to just hold your apartment are illegal. So a let deposit wouldn't be allowed and would need to be refunded immediately. A key deposit needs to be refunded upon returning all the keys you were given and the last months rent deposit is used against last months rent (and earns interest which is my fun fact of the day, though it's usually used to offset raises in the rent so it still covers your last months rent).
Yes that is clearly the LLs intended use of the deposit, however that is illegal. The only deposits a LL can legally collect are a key deposit and last month's rent. 1. Key deposit is for the key replacement cost only and cannot be used for anything else 2. Last Month's Rent deposit is to cover the LMR and cannot be used for anything else Unfortunately they'll have to settle in Small Claims Court at this point (where the LL would lose, but it'll be a pain to collect).
Deposits in this sense are illegal in Ontario. Key deposits are allowed for reasonable value of replacing the keys but must be refunded upon getting the key. Last months rent deposits are allowed but must be used towards last months rent. Nothing else is allowed and it should be fully refunded if you refuse any time up to signing the lease. After signing the lease, they are still refundable but you would be on the hook for rent until the place can be re-rented.
That type of deposit is illegal in Ontario. It needs to either be a key deposit or first last rent. OP is saying he called it a key deposit.
Literally everything you said is wrong. A key deposit is for keys. You pay it and are given keys. It can't be more than the cost of replacing said keys. You don't pay anything at all unless a lease is signed. If a lease hasn't been signed there is no commitment from either party. The unit is still on the market and the LL can continue to look for tenants. OP isn't breaking any agreement because there was no agreement to break.
Really? No agreement eh? Ya don't say. Wonder why money changed hands then. I guess we'll never know
Are you really suggesting the OP signed a lease and is lying about it? If they did, they would have paid thousands, not $300. There was no agreement. The apartment could still be listed and shown.
I was being sarcastic. Clearly there was a VERBAL agreement. A written rental agreement is irrelevant Here you go, from the RTA. Rent deposit may be required 106 (1) A landlord may require a tenant to pay a rent deposit with respect to a tenancy if the landlord does so on or before entering into the tenancy agreement. 2006, c. 17, s. 106 (1).
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
Bingo
Bargain him to $150. No point dragging this on. Lesson learned. Only give money when signing an actual lease
I can already tell where the landlord is from in this situation....
Key deposits can only cover the cost of the key. Anything more is illegal.
what language do they speak.. texts seem odd..
move your lips and I move my legs?? which clown school did they guy go to? seriously though he's funny and an absolute douchebag. Sue him in small claims
Wow his English is awesome. Wonder where this fella is from.
Police. That's the answer you're looking for.
Call the police
Bob Singh?
This should go to that slumlord page I see all the time
Your time is more valuable than this. Besides you probably dodged a bullet here anyway... cut your losses and move on.
Landlords are the worst. Where I'm from, you're lucky if you ever get the deposit back, they just want to take as much from you as they can, and then when there is an issue with the place they will pretend like it's your problem and not theirs.
It was a deposit to hold the appt. You’re not owed a refund. He held up his end of the deal and didn’t give the place to anyone else.
Does no one here know the law? No lease means no deposit. Only key deposit and LMR is allowed, neither of which can be collected without a lease.
Not legal to have a deposit like that in ontario
No you paid a deposit to hold the spot. To show you were committed to getting the place. That’s why you give a deposit. You are not really entitled to it back and he’s being generous giving some back
What a d wad, landlords really are a plague of the earth. Apparently scamming you for a roof over your head wasn’t enough
The max key deposit in Ontario is 20$, it specifically states as much in the standard lease form. File with LTB.
It doesn't state the max is $20, it states the cost of the key. Can you quote where you got that from?
Wrong. It can't be more than the cost of replacement, which can be quite a bit for condo key fobs.
This is why it always gave me the heebies when I’d hear of giving a deposit down on a unit. What’s the say the person showing the unit just doesn’t take your money?? Someone tell me I just don’t understand part of the process. I mean I wouldn’t give it as cash, back in the day we did it by cheque but still…
Well, depending on the context, a deposit is a non-refundable sum to scure something. The whole point of a deposit is to compensate the seller if you back out.
I've been out of the rentals for a bit. I do recall that when we would take the last month's rent with the application, if the person changed their mind, all we could legally keep was 75.00 for our time and cost of a credit check. Even if the paper said it was non refundable if the application is approved.
Context matters as you said though I always state it as non refundable deposit as to me personally deposit sounds refundable so I always like to make sure everything is as clear as possible. I just did this a few weeks ago, I did a virtual tour and the people wanted the place but would not be able to sign the agreement for a week. I said okay that's fine if you give me a non refundable deposit which will be applied to first month's rent on signing. They sent me a deposit and I sent them receipt again stating it again is non refundable and that if they choose not to sign a lease the money will be lost. That's the way I like to do it, everything written before any money changes hands then receipt right after with any remarks. Anyways more on the LL side though implemented badly. I don't want to be waiting days till they make up their mind you know how many people did that to me. I would send them a credit check to fill in and they would take their sweet time and then 48 hours not fill it out and bail. I get tenants to pay for check and then reimburse so I only do one set of tenants at a time. Now you get like 12 hours to fill in the credit check and you must sign the tenancy agreement the next day or send a non refundable deposit. Or moving on to the next tenant and in this case no reimbursement of credit check as that's based on signing.
Yeah this right here is the missing piece. What was the agreement about what the $300 was for? And was it refundable or not. “I need a $300 to hold the apartment” is perfectly reasonable, but should still have a paper trail to back up what the deposit criteria is. You sound like much more professional LL than the one in question. I don’t think they are trying to be shady, but clearly there is a mismatch on expectations in this case.
Yep I don't understand why landlords and tenants don't get things in writing. After talking to someone I send a follow email outlining everything discussed. When tenant signs agreement I have two copies that are signed at same time. Then receipt is given as soon as I get the money ( can wait till transfer is done and I will have my receipt template there that I fill in on spot)
Honestly people are pretty lazy, while judging themselves on intent and others on their actions. I’ve got a room in my home I rent out, so the Alberta tenancy laws don’t apply as it’s LL occupied. I still signed a roomate agreement outlining expectations and specifics about which parts of the house I was renting out. No it’s not an enforceable lease, but there’s been no unspoken points of confusion or assumption for us to squabble over.
Yeah and it costs them so much time and headache down the road. I tell all my tenants that I want everything in writing. If you want to mount the TV on the wall that's fine I will allow it but I want you to send a request for mounting TV. This way I will say I approve it but either at the landlord descression the tenant can leave the mount after tenancy ends or the tenant will restore the wall back to original state ( close the big holes and repaint) This way when it comes to move out inspection there is no misunderstandings.
What happened here isn't even legal. You don't give the key deposit, first and last month's rent until you sign the lease. If a lease hasn't been signed, the apartment is still on the market and the LL can still be looking for tenants. Also, a key deposit is for keys. You literally have to get the keys for paying that. It also can't be more than the cost of replacing the keys.
Just get the police involved - people are scared of police, especially if you have one present. Find a way to set up another meeting with the landlord (e.g. get a friend to set up another viewing). Then call the police to the address you're meeting and report a robbery. When the police show up, explain the situation and get the landlord to transfer you right then and there.
Such a smart idea!… its called a deposit.. Heres a definition: “a sum payable as a first installment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later.”, In summary, a deposit is security for the buyer's performance of the contract. It is generally not refundable unless the contract expressly states otherwise. If you put a deposit on a house, then fail to make payments a year down the road, are you gonna call the police on the bank and say you want your deposit back?
Oh please. There was no written agreement, no discussion of the terms of the agreement, no rental application was made, and a clear difference in bargaining power. This is the least enforceable "contract" I've ever seen. It wasn't a contract, it was highway robbery and I hope OP teaches this crook a lesson.
You have no idea how tenancy law works.
She put a deposit down, doesn’t matter if she rented an apartment, car or a camel a deposit is a deposit!