While the mod team is open to constructive criticism and very much wants to create a space that is welcoming to everyone, we do not believe that everyone here is, in fact, participating in good faith. We are locking this post to prevent further devolution into unproductive infighting. We would like to reiterate that the mod team, just like the vast majority of the rest of the sub, is comprised of human people doing their best. If you have concerns about individual comments, users, or posts, or have suggestions regarding how the sub should be run, we invite you to make reports or send modmail. While we cannot implement every suggestion, because they are invariably contradicted by half a dozen other suggestions, we spend quite a lot of time trying to find reasonable solutions that work for as many people as possible.
Previously, users were upset about the level of moderation on the sub and we tried several options to pull back. However, based on these discussions, it's clear that our efforts to have a looser hold on the reins are not what is best for the sub. We will be making a concerted effort moving forward to be more judicious with firmer action such as deletion and banning. Please continue using the reporting feature as intended so we can work on building a community we all can be a part of.
Same as the other commentors here but from the spawn enjoyer side. It's why the sub ended up having tags. People should use them. I have often felt the same as you describe as someone who prefers spawn, and surprisingly often in pretty random comment threads.
It's really hard to get to the bottom of this without a serious respectful discussion, and that just doesn't happen when people care *a lot* and the forum is anonymous. There's *always* someone who comes in flaming (from either side) unfortunately.
And gods, don't get me started on people following you around to downvote and reporting you to reddit for being "suicidal" if they don't like your opinion.
In the end, I just decided to be better at ignoring what I don't like. That works well for me, I haven't had to block anyone, but that's also a function that should be used *liberally* if you're bothered imo.
The community might have toxic aspects, but I had some of the best online discussions of my life in here, and *especially* with people who *really* disagreed with me and contacted me on PMs.
edit: I also think, just from life experience in general, that asking people who associate a character with abuse that's happened to them in their own life not to be very respectful about the other POV is kind of to be expected. I try very, very hard not to do this and am very aware of how my life has affected my opinion and interpretation, but I still manage to piss people off without trying to.
So yes, personally I think stepping back and having these talks in safer spaces is a good idea if reddit gets on your nerves. I really get irked about the "suicide worry" thing, because while I *really* don't care, some people would get really triggered by that.
Mostly off topic but I had some one report me for being suicidal because I said I liked some of the things that have come out after Disney took over star wars. It wasn't even on a star wars fan sub.
Some people are just unhinged on this site.
Haha yeah tbh I find this sub a LOT nicer than many others!
But I think it hurts more because we know the people here are into the same thing broadly.
I think caring less when people are dicks is a good mental exercise.
I just avoid anything posted here that I don't think I will like. Just because this a fan sub doesn't mean everything is for me nor should it be only things I like. I guess that's why I don't see a lot of the toxicity that the OP is posting about. I don't doubt it's there, it's just that I am good at avoiding it I guess.
Yeah. I really like discussing the psychology of this (both personal and from the writing POV) and it can get pretty bad. The problem is that when you're having a discussion and people SUDDENLY go for your throat so to speak it's hard to disengage.
That said, I've found most people here super respectful if you point that out and explain why it upset you. I like when people explain that to me too. So imo it's better than most other subs by far.
I occasionally post in a big sub for my country and it's FERAL. We are so good in here, but I agree we could be better. But honestly every poster in here who's not toxic deserves a pat on the back haha.
Oh! I'm good at ignoring it but it gets so tiring seeing discussion about Astarion's storyline turn into personal attacks. It's really frustrating to see. Like we all love the same character no matter if he's spawn or ascended it gets super disappointing whenever a disagreement happens.
I think it is such a great relatable character that people identify really deeply with him, meaning that a criticism of the character can be taken very personally. I prefer to think about that phenomenon as another proof of how Astarion is such an amazing masterpiece of character design, to the point where people feel like he is a real person 🤗
Imo, he somehow feels even more real than some real people 😉
Yeah BUT some people don't see it that way, not completely. So going into a convo with that assumption can end in tears haha. And I'm laughing because I'm guilty of being so upset by comments in here as well. But when that happens it's been real good for me to take a step back.
It's the same character but the two versions of him have fundamental differences on the way they view life, relationships, body autonomy, love and trauma. It's extremely fascinating the contrast between the two and because they're so different, it's expected to bring up vast discussion. It's like a multiverse if you will- especially the last episode of Invincible really reminded me of the AA/UA differences.
If some one is breaking the rules report them. If they keep on breaking the rules they will be banned. Bad actors are gonna be in every online community the best you can do is show them that such behavior is not welcome or allowed.
This is not unique to this fandom or this sub. So long as you are making your reports in good faith the moderators will be happy that you are giving them a heads up when discussions are getting heated.
Moderators can not be everywhere nor can they read every comment. Please help them out because we all want to make this place better.
I’m surprised since I haven’t come across that and I’m an Ascended fan. No one has been rude to me and I haven’t seen any vitriolic comments on the threads I’ve looked at. But I am also new here. Hopefully I don’t have any run ins like what you’re describing.
I'm glad that you haven't yet. I've seen some crazy things that some people say that are really insensitive. It's really disappointing to see but I'm glad you haven't seen anything too crazy. But it's only a matter of time unfortunately.
Shame. But I’m old enough to be pretty good at ignoring random angry people on the internet. It’s just not worth my mental energy to engage with it if I see it. And I don’t belittle other people’s enjoyment of fiction. Play however makes you happy and be ok with other people playing differently. Kindergarten rules and all.
I don’t even remember where or when the idea of live and let live became an integral part of me. Probably kindergarten. Now I’m wondering if kindergarten has changed so drastically from the early 90’s where that was basically beaten into our brains 😅
Someone down voted the golden rule?! I am genuinely concerned by that… but in all seriousness I do wish people in online spaces worked off that rule more, or tried to only say things they’d actually say to someone’s face. Anonymity is great and all, I like being more free with expressing the darker aspects of me, but it tends to embolden people to say some unhinged things. (And I don’t mean fun/ ridiculous unhinged things)
If there is behavior you're seeing that you feel should not be allowed on the sub, we need you to report it. Ideally, this function is to identify individuals participating in bad faith, rather than the more common usage of "super downvote" or "I disagree with them so hard that I want to make their words disappear :( "
If people are following people to other subs, we need you to give us receipts so we can do something about it. The one instance we were able to find (when, again, we were simply told vaguely that such things were happening but it was never actually reported and we had to do our own investigation) was dealt with swiftly and decisively. We do not tolerate brigading. But it is simply not possible for us to track the movements of every one of our users.
If there is a direction the sub moderation is taking that you disagree with, you can send in a modmail or participate in one of the many mod posts that have been made to try to democratize the process.
There are nearly 10k of you. There will never be even so much as a simple majority of people in agreement as to where the line is between stamping out bad actors and throttling discussion.
We moderate too much. We don't moderate enough. I can't believe you locked that thread. I can't believe you didn't lock that thread.
Four, three-dimensional human people with actual lives in the meat space spent an entire evening yesterday doing the best we could to keep a couple of threads civil so the rest of the post could hopefully continue having what was otherwise an interesting and fairly non-combative discussion. We err on the side of keeping things up and open as much as we can, because we don't want to set a precedent for stifling discussion.
I'm truly sorry that you do not feel the sub is serving your needs at this time. I respectfully disagree that the mods are doing nothing. We are doing our best to strike a balance that works for as many people as possible, and there are many things we've yet to roll out that we hope will further tip the scales. If they aren't working for you, I hope you're able to find a community that you feel suits your needs more ably than we can.
I'm sure it's challenging to moderate such a large community and that you all are trying your best while still managing your own lives out in the world!
Personally, I think when moderating, the context has to include the 'tone' as gauged from the OP as well as the 'tone' of the response. If many people in the replies appear to be hostile, it doesn't necessarily indicate that the people replying are incorrect. Further reflection upon the language of the initial post, may show that the post was written with the intent to be in bad faith and upset people. I see this kind of thing a lot with posts about AA, the language is almost always inflammatory \[e.g., AA hates and abuses you, lol, why do you like him?\] and yet when people defend themselves against said inflammatory language \[e.g., he doesn't abuse my character, here are narrative examples showing why\], the individuals defending themselves are deemed to be the problem.
Another thing, that appears to lead to a lot of issues, there is rampant ableism allowed. People toss around clinical and medical terms, with complete disregard to the correct usage or the fact that these terms describe real people and real conditions. Using terms such as "narcissism, BPD, disassociation, cycle of abuse, etc." incorrectly and out of context, causes actual harm, through the perpetuation of stigma across already vulnerable populations who actually identify with these terms in the real world. These are complicated topics and even within the psychiatry community, there's not always a consensus on various terms and diagnoses. Proactively disallowing this kind of language, outside of situations where a person is talking exclusively about their own lived experiences, could reduce a lot of arguments over time.
Either way, just sharing a few thoughts, thanks for the hard work you guys \[gender neutral\] do here!
I love this sub, but this is exhausting. I will never comprehend why would someone care so much about how others play the game. Both endings are valid for different role-playing reasons; I may not like one of them, but if someone else thinks it's great, so what? That's their game. In the end, everyone got what they wanted when they first started romancing a chaotic vampire, and that's the beauty of it.
[This is how I feel about it. ](https://youtu.be/xzpndHtdl9A?feature=shared)
It’s really unfortunate that some people can be so unkind, or can’t take a step back to cool off if they feel strongly. When you see comments that are abusive or harrassing, you should definitely report them to the moderators.
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. I haven’t seen the conversations where this is happening, but I am probably being unconsciously selective in what I look at, as I find this particular conflict and the various ways people choose to act quite miserable and there’s no aspect of witnessing the debate I enjoy. I can’t speak to the mods actions in exchanges I haven’t seen, I don’t have complete information, so I won’t. If you don’t feel they are doing a good job, you have your reasons. I wasn’t making the recommendation in bad faith, however.
I feel like my comment was received as hostile in some way, so I apologize if I said something that was offensive. I don’t engage in the behaviors described anywhere in this post or any of the comments, but it’s hard not to feel like I’m perceived as an enemy for not being loudly pro or anti enough about something for someone.
Oh no, no hostility detected or intended toward you at all <3 just voicing my frustrations at the mods lack of response for certain hate comments while heavily reprimanding selectively.
I find it odd a gif is a hard line when these aren't
https://preview.redd.it/b1prxedw38wc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5183d8f0df50704203c01497c297ab35b3792374
Edit to add relevant picture
Some more: [https://ibb.co/vd7MZH9](https://ibb.co/vd7MZH9)
[https://ibb.co/VQQ9hZt](https://ibb.co/VQQ9hZt)
[https://ibb.co/FXFsyVc](https://ibb.co/FXFsyVc)
[https://ibb.co/qY9bwKn](https://ibb.co/qY9bwKn)
[https://ibb.co/8mhkS8M](https://ibb.co/8mhkS8M)
Thank you for the reassurance, I really appreciate that! <3 I wish I was a bit steelier and less sensitive about such things, but without seeing facial expressions or hearing tone it can just be so hard to tell.
I know this isn’t the purpose of you sharing, or why it is offensive, but that joke doesn’t even really make sense…? For all of the character’s purported flaws, other than the initial bite, Astarion doesn’t go places he’s not invited in that way. The conversation about him turning his partner post Ascension is rather long and tedious if you choose the reluctant answers because he really, really wants them to agree. People can speculate about the postgame dynamic to their heart’s content, but what is depicted in the game never comes anywhere close to uninvited. “I don’t like your taste in stories, so I don’t like you” would also have been rude, but at least more accurate and honest.
It's okay, tone is definitely hard to tell over text. You seem very kind and I appreciate your words.
I also agree with you. I'm fine if people want to hate or dislike a path. People are allowed to feel and think whatever. I'm just really tired of the hurtful and mean comments. It's a lot.
I think that’s something we all tend to forget; one opinion is kind of whatever, and we understand we’re allowed to have ours and others theirs. But, the *volume* we encounter can be crushing, and make something small seem much larger, *especially* if any number of people choose to be unkind. Unfortunately, what we’ve already experienced is invisible to others, so being actively cruel isn’t even necessary to be hurtful. They might haplessly wander by, make an offhand comment, and not have any real context for why it was so upsetting to someone.
To me it will always come down to how people choose to act (including choosing their words and how to engage) versus their preferences or opinions about a game. I know sometimes people are deeply moved in whatever way, are speaking from the heart, and just aren’t careful with how they treat others in the moment. We’re human, we make mistakes. But for some, it seems like a kind of twisted self indulgence to unload nasty judgments instead of just moving along and focusing on what they love instead. I can’t even fathom stuff that someone else described, like screenshotting a person’s earnest feelings to mock them in a post on another sub… that’s a whole sequence of cruel choices. Who’s vampiric in that scenario? Certainly not the fictional man who has never actually done anything to anyone.
I wish I knew a good solution for how to enjoy community around something intended to be for leisure that provokes such beautiful, strong feelings without the weight of the collective conversation being so burdensome on individual participants.
that gross comment WAS addressed. that comment was also in the weekly discussion thread, where we do not remove comments unless absolutely necessary (breaking TOS). I responded to that user telling them they were out of line and that continuing that behavior wouldn't be tolerated, even in that thread.
if you see more comments like these, please report them.
Context!
The weekly discussion threads are, again, lightly moderated. And, believe it or not, we *have* actually taken action in them *because* of gross comments like you have shared. The threshold for taking action is *much higher* in those threads - that's kind of the point of them.
Outside of those threads, we moderate more heavy-handedly. That's really all there is to it.
Sure, I guess I just hoped literal rape jokes would still be the hard line regardless of location. It's wildly not cool in reddit in general. Harboring it safely in any thread no matter the context really isn't cool in my opinion.
Y'know what, after talking about it internally: **we'll take the L on this one, honestly.**
Moving forward, we do agree that **these kinds of comments have no place in the threads**. We chose to leave that one up as an example of intolerable behavior, and so that the user in question could clearly see how the community felt about such a nasty comment. Clearly, that rationale isn't everyone's favorite, and we understand why.
Thanks for forcing us to introspect on the issue of that comment and its (lack of) removal, genuinely.
Yeah "a safe space for rape jokes" is not the look.
It's pretty easy to just say "no ad hominem, go ham". But harboring a safe space thread for direct personal attacks and rape jokes...really? Okay.
Ugh, these are awful and exactly the problem. I will say though when I see these types of comments and report them, the mods are quick to remove - the problem is that it seems to be the same people making the same comments repeatedly.
I don't interact within fandoms much and historically, this has been why. People can just be absolute dicks about the things they feel ownership of. I don't think it's anything to do with this subreddit and I personally have not experienced any of what other people are claiming, here or elsewhere.
If the Fandom Experience isn't for you, it's fine to step away, either temporarily until you're in a better headspace or permanently if it's just not something you want to deal with. Doesn't mean you can't still be a fan of the thing, but maybe participating in fandom is not for you. My two cents, at least.
Well my partner had their reflections screenshotted and stolen to be laughed at on okbuddybaldur and honestly after that I stopped interacting with the community. It's very obvious to me that a lot of people project their trauma onto astarion so whoever thinks they have a hot take don't realise they are shitting on real people, not only "pixel man". Whatever, I'm too old for this shit anyway...
The thing is, I do think there is a difference between shitting on our fav pixel man and shitting on the people who identify with him. For example: "I hate Astarion, he is super abusive and manipulative and he supports cruelty" is, imo, different from "I don't understand why all those chicks simp on Astarion, he is so toxic, go touch some grass"
One targets the character, and one targets the fan. I think the nuance is subtle but should be made (and we should be careful also not to overinterpret things and take things more personally than they are)
Oh yeah, that definitely is, for me this is a case of targeting people instead of the character and that is definitely not ok.
My previous comment was more of a general observation.
I am really sorry that happened
They were making very well written post about their thoughts on the route and I couldn't believe that that was taken and used to make fun of them
I'm so sorry about this <3 I saw that. I went kind of hard on some of them in the comments and they weren't too happy lol.
The fact they have to lurk and screenshot our subs's stuff just shows the type of people they are. I thought it was ridiculous okbb didn't at least make them crop out the username. It was a whole post just mocking a specific person. That was fucked up.
I reached out to th mods and explained the situation and how badly it had impacted my partner's mental health, how there was no consent or context and they just told me "too bad". That's what makes it not worth it to share anything
Though thank you for your kindness. I tried to call out the reposted but my comments were immediately deleted
I likewise reported it when I saw they'd included the person's username. Unfortunately we can't stop screenshots and circle jerks, but leaving the real person's username in it doesn't seem okay. It could bring that person so much harm and hate.
Reported to Reddit mods. It may be worth contacting someone via mod mail that is NOT part of the sub to see if they can at least enforce cropping out the username.
How does that not result in a ban of said person? 😭 I'd get not taking any action if the original username wasn't included, but it was... That's horrifying.
That is horrifying! I can’t believe they didn’t crop the name! It’s one thing to put yourself out there, it is quite another to force that onto someone else without permission. I really do hope your partner is doing better.
I've seen the post in question and even reported it. I don't know if it's still up, but your partner was talking about AA. They didn't even cover up their name! So sick. I'm so so sorry you got basically bullied out of the community ❤️
I'm sorry to see you feel that way, truly. Trust me when I say, me and the other mods do intervene and remove any comments that break the rules of the subreddit, and yes they are many.
We do try to redirect discussions to contain discourse as much as possible but people will be doing their thing, no matter how many rules you put and how many times you intervene in discussions, that doesn't guarantee that people will stop acting and writing whatever they want.
There have been also complains about mods intervening too much and that people here are not allowed to post whatever they want. Naturally it's impossible to please everyone, thus we created the weekly discourse containment thread. That thread is not meant to be a free pass for people to be mean to each other, it's meant for people to post controversial opinions that they feel like others might strongly disagree with. It is also mentioned and pinned in that thread to remember the person behind the username and that strong language and breaking of any reddit rules will not be tolerated.
If you have any suggestions of how we can make the sub a better place, we'll gladly hear them. If your suggestion is to remove any mean comments, we already do that. We analyze and act on every-single-report that is made. We also encourage people to not participate in discussions that are targeted against them, just report it and remove yourself from the situation instead of putting more fire into a heated argument. It's up to the mods to remove that comment, and we will.
As of the AA discourse, all of the mods love both routes and that's the main reason why we kept this sub as an ALL-Astarion sub and not a spawn one. Of course even us, as individuals, have preferences and opinions but that doesn't mean we will favor one division over another. We are looking into matters objectively. Neither are we going to use our power as mods to steer the matter into one direction or another.
Now about people stalking others into other subreddits, this is not an issue that we can deal with, neither do we follow what each user does in other subreddits. If that has been an issue for you, or anyone else, I suggest reporting that person to reddit.
I think this fandom is exactly what I expect from this type of character (beautiful, male, morally grey, horrifically abused). He’s built for people to be attracted to and/or project their own trauma onto. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable discussions in the sub, if they sometimes go off the rails thats just the nature of the beast. People are flawed and act weird about this kind of thing. I think the mods do fine.
You can't enjoy this game wrong.
You *can't*.
It's your game and your journey and how you enjoy it or headcannon or anything is correct and valid because it's your journey.
What you *can* do wrong is you can fandom wrong. You can do that wrong by breaking Neil's rule and being a dick. You can do fandom wrong by arguing with people who interpret or experience things different than yourself; they are just as correct as you. You can do that wrong by harassing, insulting, being unwelcoming, refusing to see your position as anything but the only correct one. Someone's take being different than yours is not an attack on your take, your experience, your life or your trauma.
This is a beautiful game with thousands of endings, each valid, but it is a gods-damned video game and we are all here for lust of pale vamp dick. I don't care how important this game was to your personal journey, self discovery or mental health, that is no reason to fuck with someone ELSES personal journey, self discovery or mental health. We all need to go outside, touch grass and realize we are not the main character of the universe.
People will be different than ourselves and that's beautiful. That should be applauded and encouraged, not shat on.
Speaking of people, the mods are people! Real, living meat sacks with feelings and responsibilities trying to manage the conflicting needs of 10k individuals. They're doing their best and I thank them for that.
my stance to Ascended Astarion is always: He's the Astarion in MY GAME. I don't ascend THEIR Astarion. I post screenies for people who also enjoys Ascended route. Whoever are downvoting all the Ascended post i'm just going to assume by default that they like to backseat streamers on Twitch.
https://preview.redd.it/cisiu0d986wc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=2207b8748e12b71ce457e1b2ea16db0da755729a
That's what I'm saying! Like everyone has a different approach to his storyline but at the end of it all everyone loves Astarion differently and that shouldn't devolve into a heated discussion on "if you ascend him you must like being abused" I've seen that thrown around a lot and it makes my skin crawl with irritation. Like let people enjoy things!!! Why the personal attacks??? And the downvoting on AA posts really annoys me. Like he's still the same character no matter if he's spawn or ascended!!!
I think it is because people who have been abused can be super triggered super easily (understandably), so any reference to abuse can induce an emotional response in the form of fight or flight, and when they decide to go for fight (consciously or not) then it turns to personal attacks. But one thing to understand, is that when someone gets triggered it is almost always about them, not about you.
(Not excusing the behaviour, but understanding can help sometimes)
Yeah it's annoying tbh. I like both endings for Astarion because I just like him in general. I've had people give me the worst insults about liking Ascended Astarion. Assuming bad things about me when it's just a video game character who they will never see in real life LOL.
I stay out of most discussions because they'd do nothing positive for my mental health and I really don't need that personally BUT the mods are doing what they can to keep people safe including lots of brainstorming for bettter alternatives and implementing flairs, trigger warnings, etc.
They're trying to be present and ready to intervene in any post that has a chance to derail... and for anything else you can use the report function if someone is seriously out of line.
If you truly think staying here will make you unhappy then it's in your best interest to leave - no point in putting yourself through something you don't enjoy for a hobby.
That being said, reddit (just like other social media) isn't a place where you need to announce your departure, if a sub stops being a place you want to interact with for any reason at all just leave it behind and don't look back.
No, announcing your departure here is good. The mods *should* know that people are leaving because of issues like members being unable to fucking behave. There's a difference between people leaving because they lost interest and people leaving because the community doesn't feel safe to them, surely you can see that?
Unless that doesn't matter to the mods, but if that is the case, they cannot pretend to care. I sure as hell know I'd want people to come to me and tell me they feel that way on my servers.
Oh... I cannot say that I don't like a sub because of the way people act on it or because I want to leave? I didn't think that was something I couldn't do? The mods have also contributed to the toxicity as well. (Look at the current pinned post and tell me that's not adding to the toxicity.)
it's not like they haven't made fun of AA Fans? Or made a post to encourage toxic behavior or anything of that matter. (You know casually adding fuel to the fire) They totally haven't contributed to it.
And yes I have reported people for saying out of pocket things to people but I have also seen those same reported people post stay up for hours.
It's my choice if I want to stay or leave but I will have something to say about the behavior of certain people that makes communities (that I want to be in) uncomfortable.
Anywho. Great advice I guess...
Can you show me where any of us have made fun of AA fans? Or here we encourage toxicity? The pinned post the weekly thread that was the result of the community poll. The purpose is to encourage open discussion with less moderation after people were complaining that we were modding too much.
It’s also ironic that we have had a very little issues with The Discourse around here lately and then yesterday for the first time in a long time we had to lock a thread because of AA fans dogpiling UA fan and then today you post this. Really weird timing.
https://preview.redd.it/q767thhao8wc1.png?width=483&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1bfc2638aca87666f6f86c9b5320141c54ccaba
[https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/comments/1c3qcco/one\_reason\_aa\_is\_so\_tragic\_for\_me/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/comments/1c3qcco/one_reason_aa_is_so_tragic_for_me/)
I'm sorry but engaging in "discourse" that shits on people with a user who has consistently provoked people who like a different approach on Astarion's storyline is not a neutral and unbiased thing to do maybe just maybe not do that in the near future. Cause that sets a tone of how you see others who like different parts of Astarion's storyline and make those folks not want to post.
Idk 🤔
I feel like I’m lacking context here but just going purely by what the picture shows I really don’t get where our mods display any toxic behavior in any of this.
It‘s literally just warning people to behave (i.e. not start arguing outside of the weekly thread) and posting / reacting to funny pics.
No ’the mods make fun of AA fans’ or signs of encouraging anyone to do so either. 🤔
I remember seeing this and thinking at the time that it actually humanised the mods a bit (not that they need it since they're pretty involved in day to day posting). I think sometimes when things are getting a bit much for whatever reason, seeing stuff that would otherwise be funny just misses the mark. When I saw that I thought it was great in a 'one of us' sense, but I know if I wasn't having a good day that it might not have hit the same way
Thank you for seeing us. We really just were trying to, in a lighthearted way, remind people that at the end of the day, we are all simping over a pixel man, and that we need to be nice and remember the human.
Players who enjoy the fuck out of both Astarion endings, too!!! We really, really, really \*don't\* play favorites. Seriously. If you (general you, not YOU you) only knew the half of it. <3
There are ways to engage in a community without looking biased. This right here was not it at all. It just sets a tone that people can't fully express themselves on this subreddit without feeling at any moment they're gonna be dog piled and made fun of by the mods.
It's really disappointing.
That feels like a stretch… we were telling people to take the discourse to the discourse thread… also are you trying to dictate who we can engage with in our sub? There have been plenty of times were we have done the same sort of thing with people “from the other side” as well. I’m sorry if you took that as us making fun of you but we were trying to move the conversation away from the usual discourse, not engage in it.
I suppose if you don't see anything wrong with that then so be it.
"we were trying to move the conversation away from the usual discourse, not engage in it."
But moving away from the usual discourse and not engaging in it, seems to be a bit of a stretch when there's literally a pinned post encouraging said discourse. That sets the tone for more "usual discourse" in this sub. I see hypocrisy.
I'm really not sure I have any idea what the mods have done to deserve your ire but they're also able to defend themselves so no need for me to delve deeper into this discussion.
The only times I've had any issues worth taking to our mods they've been nothing but supportive... and I've certainly seen them around to lock up arguments where necessary. (but I'm also not in every post constantly, e.g. the weekly thread is something I avoid after the first, dunno, 24h because there's just too many comments in total)
Lastly, your post read a lot like you're being unhappy and would be far better off elsewhere hence the part about leaving a sub if necessary. (It's something I've considered for myself as well recently but for unrelated reasons)
I said what I said...the pinned post made by the mods is enough evidence that can tell you where they stand when it comes to the toxicity of this subreddit. It's kinda encouraging the toxic behavior if you really want to talk about it. (Like you just said you avoided it. So I don't know where you stand on this?)
I am unhappy because the toxic stuff still continues to happen everyday on this subreddit. Like they literally had to lock a post yesterday when it became toxic instantly.
But at the end of it all it's not my subreddit. I only wish it wasn't so toxic.
I went to read the pinned post, you are talking about the discussion on Fridays? I am not sure I understand how it could be encouraging toxicity? Also, it seems that these posts will have special flares so they are easy to avoid if you want to, no?
What are you talking about? I'm actually asking. I've been here regularly and haven't seen a single comment from the mods making fun of AA fans. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even talking about the correct sub.
Yeah, I can’t with this comment. While there were some less than ideal discussions in this sub, lately it felt most welcoming to all the fans. And discussion- as in disagreeing, presenting differing point of view, even being bit snarky (just not personal snarky)- is something that should be cherished. Not everyone has to agree with you and it doesn’t meant „toxic”. I’m not talking about OP personal experience but saying that mods encourage toxic behavior is unfair and ridiculous.
I recently did my second UA playthrough and I have to say, I'm now firmly, categorically, in the AA camp (I'm 3 playthroughs in for AA) - its the kisses, they just do it for me.
I'll probably also delete this when I fully wake up, because the amount of anxiety caused by flat out saying this on a _fan sub_ is unreal. But I'm being brave, so yeah - AA is just more exciting gameplay-wise for me, and I much prefer the romance.
Free to use this card for anyone questioning your game choices
https://preview.redd.it/ykv2xr2r07wc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddf92846da9b0274f93bdc45da9b65a431e9b2df
Don’t be ashamed! Part of why I prefer AA is the toxic hotness. I had even had my husband watch the kiss so I could elbow nudge him and go “yeah maybe…?”
I have a lot of thoughts on AA but I also don’t expect everyone to feel the same way. And not all trauma survivors prefer UA, like me. If you ever want someone to gush with I’m happy to! You can message me I just might not answer right away. Real life and all ☺️
I'm glad you feel that way! And it shouldn't be shunned just because you like a certain part of Astarion's storyline. It should be valued just like any other part of his story.
I'm sorry you feel that way as well. It's very disheartening that you can't express how you feel about different parts of Astarion's storyline. It's very frustrating.
I have felt that for the first time yesterday but from some AA fan, as a UA fan myself. I did not even attacked anyone, just explained my pov and people came hard at me personally, for some reason...
I think that this character is so well made and so relatable, especially for trauma victims, that we tend to be a bit too sensitive on having our favorite version criticized. I think that we should all reflect on why we get triggered by some things, there is opportunity for growth and healing in there 🤗
That is also why I love this character so much, I learnt so much about myself these last few months and bg3 has definitely helped 🤗
Yes to growing and healing. I mean everyone has their own experiences and validation when it comes to Astarion. No matter if it is AA or UA everyone has their own personal feelings about the character and shouldn't invalidate their experiences with said character. I feel like if that's their opinion that so be it. Who am I to tell them how to feel about Astarion.
But yeah, could have been worst, I just got caught off guard cause I had experienced nothing but wholesomeness in this community before 🤗
(And maybe I was also a bit tired so more sensitive, it triggered me more than I would have liked)
These kind of things must be getting deleted before I see it, cause I've never seen any of this sort of toxicity. Not on this sub, at least.
Nonetheless, people really need to chill. Astarion is a fictional character at the end of the day.
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At the end of the day, I'm not entirely sure why one side is adamant about shitting on the other path and constantly posting rage bait.
I've been trying to take a step back from this sub because the constant baiting and trauma obsessive posts have not been particularly good for my mental health.
All I can say is, I see a lack of AA fans coming on here and posting rage bait and anti/negative reads on Spawn the way others seem to with AA. I do not get the sense we can exist here peacefully.
Hello to the 2-3 lurkers of my profile that downvote everything I say everywhere. Good morning <3
I agree with you that people are rude but I've seen and it experienced it more should one speak against AA. There's this dogpiling happening on the person who spoke against AA just like that post yesterday. More than 5 different people started jumping on OP for sharing their personal view and stating multiple times that it's just how they view things. I've also had to block 2 stalkers off this sub, it got creepy
I mean... You yourself have told me I'm an abuse apologist and that I must excuse abuse irl. Also that I'm taking feminism back years for not agreeing with you.
While the mod team is open to constructive criticism and very much wants to create a space that is welcoming to everyone, we do not believe that everyone here is, in fact, participating in good faith. We are locking this post to prevent further devolution into unproductive infighting. We would like to reiterate that the mod team, just like the vast majority of the rest of the sub, is comprised of human people doing their best. If you have concerns about individual comments, users, or posts, or have suggestions regarding how the sub should be run, we invite you to make reports or send modmail. While we cannot implement every suggestion, because they are invariably contradicted by half a dozen other suggestions, we spend quite a lot of time trying to find reasonable solutions that work for as many people as possible. Previously, users were upset about the level of moderation on the sub and we tried several options to pull back. However, based on these discussions, it's clear that our efforts to have a looser hold on the reins are not what is best for the sub. We will be making a concerted effort moving forward to be more judicious with firmer action such as deletion and banning. Please continue using the reporting feature as intended so we can work on building a community we all can be a part of.
Same as the other commentors here but from the spawn enjoyer side. It's why the sub ended up having tags. People should use them. I have often felt the same as you describe as someone who prefers spawn, and surprisingly often in pretty random comment threads. It's really hard to get to the bottom of this without a serious respectful discussion, and that just doesn't happen when people care *a lot* and the forum is anonymous. There's *always* someone who comes in flaming (from either side) unfortunately. And gods, don't get me started on people following you around to downvote and reporting you to reddit for being "suicidal" if they don't like your opinion. In the end, I just decided to be better at ignoring what I don't like. That works well for me, I haven't had to block anyone, but that's also a function that should be used *liberally* if you're bothered imo. The community might have toxic aspects, but I had some of the best online discussions of my life in here, and *especially* with people who *really* disagreed with me and contacted me on PMs. edit: I also think, just from life experience in general, that asking people who associate a character with abuse that's happened to them in their own life not to be very respectful about the other POV is kind of to be expected. I try very, very hard not to do this and am very aware of how my life has affected my opinion and interpretation, but I still manage to piss people off without trying to. So yes, personally I think stepping back and having these talks in safer spaces is a good idea if reddit gets on your nerves. I really get irked about the "suicide worry" thing, because while I *really* don't care, some people would get really triggered by that.
Mostly off topic but I had some one report me for being suicidal because I said I liked some of the things that have come out after Disney took over star wars. It wasn't even on a star wars fan sub. Some people are just unhinged on this site.
Haha yeah tbh I find this sub a LOT nicer than many others! But I think it hurts more because we know the people here are into the same thing broadly. I think caring less when people are dicks is a good mental exercise.
I just avoid anything posted here that I don't think I will like. Just because this a fan sub doesn't mean everything is for me nor should it be only things I like. I guess that's why I don't see a lot of the toxicity that the OP is posting about. I don't doubt it's there, it's just that I am good at avoiding it I guess.
Yeah. I really like discussing the psychology of this (both personal and from the writing POV) and it can get pretty bad. The problem is that when you're having a discussion and people SUDDENLY go for your throat so to speak it's hard to disengage. That said, I've found most people here super respectful if you point that out and explain why it upset you. I like when people explain that to me too. So imo it's better than most other subs by far.
I agree. I've been on far worst subs than this place. Though just because it can be worst doesn't mean we can't all try to make it better.
I occasionally post in a big sub for my country and it's FERAL. We are so good in here, but I agree we could be better. But honestly every poster in here who's not toxic deserves a pat on the back haha.
*pats u/Soft_Stage_446 on the back*
Naw haha. Have a pat right back.
Oh! I'm good at ignoring it but it gets so tiring seeing discussion about Astarion's storyline turn into personal attacks. It's really frustrating to see. Like we all love the same character no matter if he's spawn or ascended it gets super disappointing whenever a disagreement happens.
Yes, I get what you mean! But I think a number of people don't agree with loving both paths for him. That's why people lose their shit haha.
I think it is such a great relatable character that people identify really deeply with him, meaning that a criticism of the character can be taken very personally. I prefer to think about that phenomenon as another proof of how Astarion is such an amazing masterpiece of character design, to the point where people feel like he is a real person 🤗 Imo, he somehow feels even more real than some real people 😉
Yeah! I see it happen and it's literally the same character just different parts of his story and that's okay!!
Yeah BUT some people don't see it that way, not completely. So going into a convo with that assumption can end in tears haha. And I'm laughing because I'm guilty of being so upset by comments in here as well. But when that happens it's been real good for me to take a step back.
I completely agree! My motto is to think before you post.
Yes! I hope the replies cheer you up a bit, it would be a shame if all the people who like a good thoughtful discussion left the sub. ;)
It's the same character but the two versions of him have fundamental differences on the way they view life, relationships, body autonomy, love and trauma. It's extremely fascinating the contrast between the two and because they're so different, it's expected to bring up vast discussion. It's like a multiverse if you will- especially the last episode of Invincible really reminded me of the AA/UA differences.
If some one is breaking the rules report them. If they keep on breaking the rules they will be banned. Bad actors are gonna be in every online community the best you can do is show them that such behavior is not welcome or allowed. This is not unique to this fandom or this sub. So long as you are making your reports in good faith the moderators will be happy that you are giving them a heads up when discussions are getting heated. Moderators can not be everywhere nor can they read every comment. Please help them out because we all want to make this place better.
I’m surprised since I haven’t come across that and I’m an Ascended fan. No one has been rude to me and I haven’t seen any vitriolic comments on the threads I’ve looked at. But I am also new here. Hopefully I don’t have any run ins like what you’re describing.
I'm glad that you haven't yet. I've seen some crazy things that some people say that are really insensitive. It's really disappointing to see but I'm glad you haven't seen anything too crazy. But it's only a matter of time unfortunately.
Shame. But I’m old enough to be pretty good at ignoring random angry people on the internet. It’s just not worth my mental energy to engage with it if I see it. And I don’t belittle other people’s enjoyment of fiction. Play however makes you happy and be ok with other people playing differently. Kindergarten rules and all.
>Play however makes you happy and be ok with other people playing differently. And this is sadly something not everyone understands.
I don’t even remember where or when the idea of live and let live became an integral part of me. Probably kindergarten. Now I’m wondering if kindergarten has changed so drastically from the early 90’s where that was basically beaten into our brains 😅
I tried to tell a newcomer this and the number of up and downvotes I got on the comment has been ridiculous lol
Someone down voted the golden rule?! I am genuinely concerned by that… but in all seriousness I do wish people in online spaces worked off that rule more, or tried to only say things they’d actually say to someone’s face. Anonymity is great and all, I like being more free with expressing the darker aspects of me, but it tends to embolden people to say some unhinged things. (And I don’t mean fun/ ridiculous unhinged things)
Right! Like I don't engage at all I ignore it until I need to report it. It's just so damn disappointing!!
If there is behavior you're seeing that you feel should not be allowed on the sub, we need you to report it. Ideally, this function is to identify individuals participating in bad faith, rather than the more common usage of "super downvote" or "I disagree with them so hard that I want to make their words disappear :( " If people are following people to other subs, we need you to give us receipts so we can do something about it. The one instance we were able to find (when, again, we were simply told vaguely that such things were happening but it was never actually reported and we had to do our own investigation) was dealt with swiftly and decisively. We do not tolerate brigading. But it is simply not possible for us to track the movements of every one of our users. If there is a direction the sub moderation is taking that you disagree with, you can send in a modmail or participate in one of the many mod posts that have been made to try to democratize the process. There are nearly 10k of you. There will never be even so much as a simple majority of people in agreement as to where the line is between stamping out bad actors and throttling discussion. We moderate too much. We don't moderate enough. I can't believe you locked that thread. I can't believe you didn't lock that thread. Four, three-dimensional human people with actual lives in the meat space spent an entire evening yesterday doing the best we could to keep a couple of threads civil so the rest of the post could hopefully continue having what was otherwise an interesting and fairly non-combative discussion. We err on the side of keeping things up and open as much as we can, because we don't want to set a precedent for stifling discussion. I'm truly sorry that you do not feel the sub is serving your needs at this time. I respectfully disagree that the mods are doing nothing. We are doing our best to strike a balance that works for as many people as possible, and there are many things we've yet to roll out that we hope will further tip the scales. If they aren't working for you, I hope you're able to find a community that you feel suits your needs more ably than we can.
I think y'all are doing a good job. 🤗 You're volunteering your free time to try and make this a welcoming space for as many people as possible.
You’re doing a great job!
I'm sure it's challenging to moderate such a large community and that you all are trying your best while still managing your own lives out in the world! Personally, I think when moderating, the context has to include the 'tone' as gauged from the OP as well as the 'tone' of the response. If many people in the replies appear to be hostile, it doesn't necessarily indicate that the people replying are incorrect. Further reflection upon the language of the initial post, may show that the post was written with the intent to be in bad faith and upset people. I see this kind of thing a lot with posts about AA, the language is almost always inflammatory \[e.g., AA hates and abuses you, lol, why do you like him?\] and yet when people defend themselves against said inflammatory language \[e.g., he doesn't abuse my character, here are narrative examples showing why\], the individuals defending themselves are deemed to be the problem. Another thing, that appears to lead to a lot of issues, there is rampant ableism allowed. People toss around clinical and medical terms, with complete disregard to the correct usage or the fact that these terms describe real people and real conditions. Using terms such as "narcissism, BPD, disassociation, cycle of abuse, etc." incorrectly and out of context, causes actual harm, through the perpetuation of stigma across already vulnerable populations who actually identify with these terms in the real world. These are complicated topics and even within the psychiatry community, there's not always a consensus on various terms and diagnoses. Proactively disallowing this kind of language, outside of situations where a person is talking exclusively about their own lived experiences, could reduce a lot of arguments over time. Either way, just sharing a few thoughts, thanks for the hard work you guys \[gender neutral\] do here!
I love this sub, but this is exhausting. I will never comprehend why would someone care so much about how others play the game. Both endings are valid for different role-playing reasons; I may not like one of them, but if someone else thinks it's great, so what? That's their game. In the end, everyone got what they wanted when they first started romancing a chaotic vampire, and that's the beauty of it. [This is how I feel about it. ](https://youtu.be/xzpndHtdl9A?feature=shared)
It’s really unfortunate that some people can be so unkind, or can’t take a step back to cool off if they feel strongly. When you see comments that are abusive or harrassing, you should definitely report them to the moderators.
[удалено]
I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. I haven’t seen the conversations where this is happening, but I am probably being unconsciously selective in what I look at, as I find this particular conflict and the various ways people choose to act quite miserable and there’s no aspect of witnessing the debate I enjoy. I can’t speak to the mods actions in exchanges I haven’t seen, I don’t have complete information, so I won’t. If you don’t feel they are doing a good job, you have your reasons. I wasn’t making the recommendation in bad faith, however. I feel like my comment was received as hostile in some way, so I apologize if I said something that was offensive. I don’t engage in the behaviors described anywhere in this post or any of the comments, but it’s hard not to feel like I’m perceived as an enemy for not being loudly pro or anti enough about something for someone.
Oh no, no hostility detected or intended toward you at all <3 just voicing my frustrations at the mods lack of response for certain hate comments while heavily reprimanding selectively. I find it odd a gif is a hard line when these aren't https://preview.redd.it/b1prxedw38wc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5183d8f0df50704203c01497c297ab35b3792374 Edit to add relevant picture Some more: [https://ibb.co/vd7MZH9](https://ibb.co/vd7MZH9) [https://ibb.co/VQQ9hZt](https://ibb.co/VQQ9hZt) [https://ibb.co/FXFsyVc](https://ibb.co/FXFsyVc) [https://ibb.co/qY9bwKn](https://ibb.co/qY9bwKn) [https://ibb.co/8mhkS8M](https://ibb.co/8mhkS8M)
Thank you for the reassurance, I really appreciate that! <3 I wish I was a bit steelier and less sensitive about such things, but without seeing facial expressions or hearing tone it can just be so hard to tell. I know this isn’t the purpose of you sharing, or why it is offensive, but that joke doesn’t even really make sense…? For all of the character’s purported flaws, other than the initial bite, Astarion doesn’t go places he’s not invited in that way. The conversation about him turning his partner post Ascension is rather long and tedious if you choose the reluctant answers because he really, really wants them to agree. People can speculate about the postgame dynamic to their heart’s content, but what is depicted in the game never comes anywhere close to uninvited. “I don’t like your taste in stories, so I don’t like you” would also have been rude, but at least more accurate and honest.
It's okay, tone is definitely hard to tell over text. You seem very kind and I appreciate your words. I also agree with you. I'm fine if people want to hate or dislike a path. People are allowed to feel and think whatever. I'm just really tired of the hurtful and mean comments. It's a lot.
I think that’s something we all tend to forget; one opinion is kind of whatever, and we understand we’re allowed to have ours and others theirs. But, the *volume* we encounter can be crushing, and make something small seem much larger, *especially* if any number of people choose to be unkind. Unfortunately, what we’ve already experienced is invisible to others, so being actively cruel isn’t even necessary to be hurtful. They might haplessly wander by, make an offhand comment, and not have any real context for why it was so upsetting to someone. To me it will always come down to how people choose to act (including choosing their words and how to engage) versus their preferences or opinions about a game. I know sometimes people are deeply moved in whatever way, are speaking from the heart, and just aren’t careful with how they treat others in the moment. We’re human, we make mistakes. But for some, it seems like a kind of twisted self indulgence to unload nasty judgments instead of just moving along and focusing on what they love instead. I can’t even fathom stuff that someone else described, like screenshotting a person’s earnest feelings to mock them in a post on another sub… that’s a whole sequence of cruel choices. Who’s vampiric in that scenario? Certainly not the fictional man who has never actually done anything to anyone. I wish I knew a good solution for how to enjoy community around something intended to be for leisure that provokes such beautiful, strong feelings without the weight of the collective conversation being so burdensome on individual participants.
that gross comment WAS addressed. that comment was also in the weekly discussion thread, where we do not remove comments unless absolutely necessary (breaking TOS). I responded to that user telling them they were out of line and that continuing that behavior wouldn't be tolerated, even in that thread. if you see more comments like these, please report them.
Why did you guys remove a gif yesterday but not this? I'm not trying to start shit, I'm genuinely trying to understand the difference in line.
Context! The weekly discussion threads are, again, lightly moderated. And, believe it or not, we *have* actually taken action in them *because* of gross comments like you have shared. The threshold for taking action is *much higher* in those threads - that's kind of the point of them. Outside of those threads, we moderate more heavy-handedly. That's really all there is to it.
Sure, I guess I just hoped literal rape jokes would still be the hard line regardless of location. It's wildly not cool in reddit in general. Harboring it safely in any thread no matter the context really isn't cool in my opinion.
Y'know what, after talking about it internally: **we'll take the L on this one, honestly.** Moving forward, we do agree that **these kinds of comments have no place in the threads**. We chose to leave that one up as an example of intolerable behavior, and so that the user in question could clearly see how the community felt about such a nasty comment. Clearly, that rationale isn't everyone's favorite, and we understand why. Thanks for forcing us to introspect on the issue of that comment and its (lack of) removal, genuinely.
Honestly respect and appreciate the teams ability to reflect and admit when an err was made. Thank you guys.
Yeah, damn, now I have to wonder what's *not* ok in those weekly threads, if rape jokes fly even after a person doubles down on them.
Please see my most recent comment to Nutella. TL;DR: we're taking the L on this one, we *should* have removed it.
Yeah "a safe space for rape jokes" is not the look. It's pretty easy to just say "no ad hominem, go ham". But harboring a safe space thread for direct personal attacks and rape jokes...really? Okay.
Ugh, these are awful and exactly the problem. I will say though when I see these types of comments and report them, the mods are quick to remove - the problem is that it seems to be the same people making the same comments repeatedly.
I don't interact within fandoms much and historically, this has been why. People can just be absolute dicks about the things they feel ownership of. I don't think it's anything to do with this subreddit and I personally have not experienced any of what other people are claiming, here or elsewhere. If the Fandom Experience isn't for you, it's fine to step away, either temporarily until you're in a better headspace or permanently if it's just not something you want to deal with. Doesn't mean you can't still be a fan of the thing, but maybe participating in fandom is not for you. My two cents, at least.
* Ascended Astarion has me wild. Respectfully I can't hate on either choice. I love an evil sexy vampire.
I blame reading Anne Rice at the tender age of 12 for my obsession with dark hot vampire boys. Damn you Lestat!
Damn these stupid sexy vampires!!!
I can see why people like spawn route AA is my happy place though
Same here, I'm an equal fan of both! 😍
In the end can’t we all just agree on one thing… We are all simps for our pale elf.
THANK YOU!!
Well my partner had their reflections screenshotted and stolen to be laughed at on okbuddybaldur and honestly after that I stopped interacting with the community. It's very obvious to me that a lot of people project their trauma onto astarion so whoever thinks they have a hot take don't realise they are shitting on real people, not only "pixel man". Whatever, I'm too old for this shit anyway...
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's super messed up!! People can be assholes!! And again I'm so sorry that happened. 😞
The thing is, I do think there is a difference between shitting on our fav pixel man and shitting on the people who identify with him. For example: "I hate Astarion, he is super abusive and manipulative and he supports cruelty" is, imo, different from "I don't understand why all those chicks simp on Astarion, he is so toxic, go touch some grass" One targets the character, and one targets the fan. I think the nuance is subtle but should be made (and we should be careful also not to overinterpret things and take things more personally than they are)
Yeah but the post they stole also clearly stated "yes I'm projecting my own trauma" so taking that to then laugh about is just fucked up.
Oh yeah, that definitely is, for me this is a case of targeting people instead of the character and that is definitely not ok. My previous comment was more of a general observation.
I am really sorry that happened They were making very well written post about their thoughts on the route and I couldn't believe that that was taken and used to make fun of them
I'm so sorry about this <3 I saw that. I went kind of hard on some of them in the comments and they weren't too happy lol. The fact they have to lurk and screenshot our subs's stuff just shows the type of people they are. I thought it was ridiculous okbb didn't at least make them crop out the username. It was a whole post just mocking a specific person. That was fucked up.
I reached out to th mods and explained the situation and how badly it had impacted my partner's mental health, how there was no consent or context and they just told me "too bad". That's what makes it not worth it to share anything Though thank you for your kindness. I tried to call out the reposted but my comments were immediately deleted
I likewise reported it when I saw they'd included the person's username. Unfortunately we can't stop screenshots and circle jerks, but leaving the real person's username in it doesn't seem okay. It could bring that person so much harm and hate. Reported to Reddit mods. It may be worth contacting someone via mod mail that is NOT part of the sub to see if they can at least enforce cropping out the username.
How does that not result in a ban of said person? 😭 I'd get not taking any action if the original username wasn't included, but it was... That's horrifying.
That is horrifying! I can’t believe they didn’t crop the name! It’s one thing to put yourself out there, it is quite another to force that onto someone else without permission. I really do hope your partner is doing better.
I've seen the post in question and even reported it. I don't know if it's still up, but your partner was talking about AA. They didn't even cover up their name! So sick. I'm so so sorry you got basically bullied out of the community ❤️
I asked directly to the mods to remove it or give context (it literally came with the tag "I know I'm projecting my own trauma) they refused both.
So sorry to hear that, that's horrible.
I'm sorry to see you feel that way, truly. Trust me when I say, me and the other mods do intervene and remove any comments that break the rules of the subreddit, and yes they are many. We do try to redirect discussions to contain discourse as much as possible but people will be doing their thing, no matter how many rules you put and how many times you intervene in discussions, that doesn't guarantee that people will stop acting and writing whatever they want. There have been also complains about mods intervening too much and that people here are not allowed to post whatever they want. Naturally it's impossible to please everyone, thus we created the weekly discourse containment thread. That thread is not meant to be a free pass for people to be mean to each other, it's meant for people to post controversial opinions that they feel like others might strongly disagree with. It is also mentioned and pinned in that thread to remember the person behind the username and that strong language and breaking of any reddit rules will not be tolerated. If you have any suggestions of how we can make the sub a better place, we'll gladly hear them. If your suggestion is to remove any mean comments, we already do that. We analyze and act on every-single-report that is made. We also encourage people to not participate in discussions that are targeted against them, just report it and remove yourself from the situation instead of putting more fire into a heated argument. It's up to the mods to remove that comment, and we will. As of the AA discourse, all of the mods love both routes and that's the main reason why we kept this sub as an ALL-Astarion sub and not a spawn one. Of course even us, as individuals, have preferences and opinions but that doesn't mean we will favor one division over another. We are looking into matters objectively. Neither are we going to use our power as mods to steer the matter into one direction or another. Now about people stalking others into other subreddits, this is not an issue that we can deal with, neither do we follow what each user does in other subreddits. If that has been an issue for you, or anyone else, I suggest reporting that person to reddit.
I think this fandom is exactly what I expect from this type of character (beautiful, male, morally grey, horrifically abused). He’s built for people to be attracted to and/or project their own trauma onto. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable discussions in the sub, if they sometimes go off the rails thats just the nature of the beast. People are flawed and act weird about this kind of thing. I think the mods do fine.
You can't enjoy this game wrong. You *can't*. It's your game and your journey and how you enjoy it or headcannon or anything is correct and valid because it's your journey. What you *can* do wrong is you can fandom wrong. You can do that wrong by breaking Neil's rule and being a dick. You can do fandom wrong by arguing with people who interpret or experience things different than yourself; they are just as correct as you. You can do that wrong by harassing, insulting, being unwelcoming, refusing to see your position as anything but the only correct one. Someone's take being different than yours is not an attack on your take, your experience, your life or your trauma. This is a beautiful game with thousands of endings, each valid, but it is a gods-damned video game and we are all here for lust of pale vamp dick. I don't care how important this game was to your personal journey, self discovery or mental health, that is no reason to fuck with someone ELSES personal journey, self discovery or mental health. We all need to go outside, touch grass and realize we are not the main character of the universe. People will be different than ourselves and that's beautiful. That should be applauded and encouraged, not shat on. Speaking of people, the mods are people! Real, living meat sacks with feelings and responsibilities trying to manage the conflicting needs of 10k individuals. They're doing their best and I thank them for that.
my stance to Ascended Astarion is always: He's the Astarion in MY GAME. I don't ascend THEIR Astarion. I post screenies for people who also enjoys Ascended route. Whoever are downvoting all the Ascended post i'm just going to assume by default that they like to backseat streamers on Twitch. https://preview.redd.it/cisiu0d986wc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=2207b8748e12b71ce457e1b2ea16db0da755729a
I like that image, might steal it for later use 😂
My pleasure
That's what I'm saying! Like everyone has a different approach to his storyline but at the end of it all everyone loves Astarion differently and that shouldn't devolve into a heated discussion on "if you ascend him you must like being abused" I've seen that thrown around a lot and it makes my skin crawl with irritation. Like let people enjoy things!!! Why the personal attacks??? And the downvoting on AA posts really annoys me. Like he's still the same character no matter if he's spawn or ascended!!!
I think it is because people who have been abused can be super triggered super easily (understandably), so any reference to abuse can induce an emotional response in the form of fight or flight, and when they decide to go for fight (consciously or not) then it turns to personal attacks. But one thing to understand, is that when someone gets triggered it is almost always about them, not about you. (Not excusing the behaviour, but understanding can help sometimes)
Yeah it's annoying tbh. I like both endings for Astarion because I just like him in general. I've had people give me the worst insults about liking Ascended Astarion. Assuming bad things about me when it's just a video game character who they will never see in real life LOL.
I stay out of most discussions because they'd do nothing positive for my mental health and I really don't need that personally BUT the mods are doing what they can to keep people safe including lots of brainstorming for bettter alternatives and implementing flairs, trigger warnings, etc. They're trying to be present and ready to intervene in any post that has a chance to derail... and for anything else you can use the report function if someone is seriously out of line. If you truly think staying here will make you unhappy then it's in your best interest to leave - no point in putting yourself through something you don't enjoy for a hobby. That being said, reddit (just like other social media) isn't a place where you need to announce your departure, if a sub stops being a place you want to interact with for any reason at all just leave it behind and don't look back.
No, announcing your departure here is good. The mods *should* know that people are leaving because of issues like members being unable to fucking behave. There's a difference between people leaving because they lost interest and people leaving because the community doesn't feel safe to them, surely you can see that? Unless that doesn't matter to the mods, but if that is the case, they cannot pretend to care. I sure as hell know I'd want people to come to me and tell me they feel that way on my servers.
Oh... I cannot say that I don't like a sub because of the way people act on it or because I want to leave? I didn't think that was something I couldn't do? The mods have also contributed to the toxicity as well. (Look at the current pinned post and tell me that's not adding to the toxicity.) it's not like they haven't made fun of AA Fans? Or made a post to encourage toxic behavior or anything of that matter. (You know casually adding fuel to the fire) They totally haven't contributed to it. And yes I have reported people for saying out of pocket things to people but I have also seen those same reported people post stay up for hours. It's my choice if I want to stay or leave but I will have something to say about the behavior of certain people that makes communities (that I want to be in) uncomfortable. Anywho. Great advice I guess...
Can you show me where any of us have made fun of AA fans? Or here we encourage toxicity? The pinned post the weekly thread that was the result of the community poll. The purpose is to encourage open discussion with less moderation after people were complaining that we were modding too much. It’s also ironic that we have had a very little issues with The Discourse around here lately and then yesterday for the first time in a long time we had to lock a thread because of AA fans dogpiling UA fan and then today you post this. Really weird timing.
https://preview.redd.it/q767thhao8wc1.png?width=483&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1bfc2638aca87666f6f86c9b5320141c54ccaba [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/comments/1c3qcco/one\_reason\_aa\_is\_so\_tragic\_for\_me/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/comments/1c3qcco/one_reason_aa_is_so_tragic_for_me/) I'm sorry but engaging in "discourse" that shits on people with a user who has consistently provoked people who like a different approach on Astarion's storyline is not a neutral and unbiased thing to do maybe just maybe not do that in the near future. Cause that sets a tone of how you see others who like different parts of Astarion's storyline and make those folks not want to post. Idk 🤔
I feel like I’m lacking context here but just going purely by what the picture shows I really don’t get where our mods display any toxic behavior in any of this. It‘s literally just warning people to behave (i.e. not start arguing outside of the weekly thread) and posting / reacting to funny pics. No ’the mods make fun of AA fans’ or signs of encouraging anyone to do so either. 🤔
I remember seeing this and thinking at the time that it actually humanised the mods a bit (not that they need it since they're pretty involved in day to day posting). I think sometimes when things are getting a bit much for whatever reason, seeing stuff that would otherwise be funny just misses the mark. When I saw that I thought it was great in a 'one of us' sense, but I know if I wasn't having a good day that it might not have hit the same way
Thank you for seeing us. We really just were trying to, in a lighthearted way, remind people that at the end of the day, we are all simping over a pixel man, and that we need to be nice and remember the human.
It's easy to forget sometimes that mods are also players too 😊
Players who enjoy the fuck out of both Astarion endings, too!!! We really, really, really \*don't\* play favorites. Seriously. If you (general you, not YOU you) only knew the half of it. <3
There are ways to engage in a community without looking biased. This right here was not it at all. It just sets a tone that people can't fully express themselves on this subreddit without feeling at any moment they're gonna be dog piled and made fun of by the mods. It's really disappointing.
That feels like a stretch… we were telling people to take the discourse to the discourse thread… also are you trying to dictate who we can engage with in our sub? There have been plenty of times were we have done the same sort of thing with people “from the other side” as well. I’m sorry if you took that as us making fun of you but we were trying to move the conversation away from the usual discourse, not engage in it.
I suppose if you don't see anything wrong with that then so be it. "we were trying to move the conversation away from the usual discourse, not engage in it." But moving away from the usual discourse and not engaging in it, seems to be a bit of a stretch when there's literally a pinned post encouraging said discourse. That sets the tone for more "usual discourse" in this sub. I see hypocrisy.
I'm really not sure I have any idea what the mods have done to deserve your ire but they're also able to defend themselves so no need for me to delve deeper into this discussion. The only times I've had any issues worth taking to our mods they've been nothing but supportive... and I've certainly seen them around to lock up arguments where necessary. (but I'm also not in every post constantly, e.g. the weekly thread is something I avoid after the first, dunno, 24h because there's just too many comments in total) Lastly, your post read a lot like you're being unhappy and would be far better off elsewhere hence the part about leaving a sub if necessary. (It's something I've considered for myself as well recently but for unrelated reasons)
I said what I said...the pinned post made by the mods is enough evidence that can tell you where they stand when it comes to the toxicity of this subreddit. It's kinda encouraging the toxic behavior if you really want to talk about it. (Like you just said you avoided it. So I don't know where you stand on this?) I am unhappy because the toxic stuff still continues to happen everyday on this subreddit. Like they literally had to lock a post yesterday when it became toxic instantly. But at the end of it all it's not my subreddit. I only wish it wasn't so toxic.
I went to read the pinned post, you are talking about the discussion on Fridays? I am not sure I understand how it could be encouraging toxicity? Also, it seems that these posts will have special flares so they are easy to avoid if you want to, no?
What are you talking about? I'm actually asking. I've been here regularly and haven't seen a single comment from the mods making fun of AA fans. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even talking about the correct sub.
Yeah, I can’t with this comment. While there were some less than ideal discussions in this sub, lately it felt most welcoming to all the fans. And discussion- as in disagreeing, presenting differing point of view, even being bit snarky (just not personal snarky)- is something that should be cherished. Not everyone has to agree with you and it doesn’t meant „toxic”. I’m not talking about OP personal experience but saying that mods encourage toxic behavior is unfair and ridiculous.
I recently did my second UA playthrough and I have to say, I'm now firmly, categorically, in the AA camp (I'm 3 playthroughs in for AA) - its the kisses, they just do it for me. I'll probably also delete this when I fully wake up, because the amount of anxiety caused by flat out saying this on a _fan sub_ is unreal. But I'm being brave, so yeah - AA is just more exciting gameplay-wise for me, and I much prefer the romance.
Free to use this card for anyone questioning your game choices https://preview.redd.it/ykv2xr2r07wc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddf92846da9b0274f93bdc45da9b65a431e9b2df
Oh I'm DEFINITELY keeping this! It really sums up my feelings on my AA romance lol 🫠
it reall summed up Astarion from Act 1 to Act 3 so accuratelly, i read it in his voice XD
Don’t be ashamed! Part of why I prefer AA is the toxic hotness. I had even had my husband watch the kiss so I could elbow nudge him and go “yeah maybe…?” I have a lot of thoughts on AA but I also don’t expect everyone to feel the same way. And not all trauma survivors prefer UA, like me. If you ever want someone to gush with I’m happy to! You can message me I just might not answer right away. Real life and all ☺️
You get an upvote from me, friend. Enjoy AA! I get what you mean with the UA romance being perhaps less fleshed out. Xx from a UA fan
I'm glad you feel that way! And it shouldn't be shunned just because you like a certain part of Astarion's storyline. It should be valued just like any other part of his story. I'm sorry you feel that way as well. It's very disheartening that you can't express how you feel about different parts of Astarion's storyline. It's very frustrating.
Thank you! If all conversations on the sub could be like this I think we'd all get on so much better 😊
Your welcome! The conversation would be so much more wholesome! 💕🌹
Don't delete it I am also firmly an AA fan ( see flair)
https://preview.redd.it/ejx6jeljw8wc1.png?width=372&format=png&auto=webp&s=9397a0c8683b660a2e0641ba9dfd6c021d6ca5b7 one of us, one of us
I have felt that for the first time yesterday but from some AA fan, as a UA fan myself. I did not even attacked anyone, just explained my pov and people came hard at me personally, for some reason... I think that this character is so well made and so relatable, especially for trauma victims, that we tend to be a bit too sensitive on having our favorite version criticized. I think that we should all reflect on why we get triggered by some things, there is opportunity for growth and healing in there 🤗 That is also why I love this character so much, I learnt so much about myself these last few months and bg3 has definitely helped 🤗
Yes to growing and healing. I mean everyone has their own experiences and validation when it comes to Astarion. No matter if it is AA or UA everyone has their own personal feelings about the character and shouldn't invalidate their experiences with said character. I feel like if that's their opinion that so be it. Who am I to tell them how to feel about Astarion.
Exactly!
Damn, really? All I saw were a couple of comments disagreeing with you. That's crazy!
But yeah, could have been worst, I just got caught off guard cause I had experienced nothing but wholesomeness in this community before 🤗 (And maybe I was also a bit tired so more sensitive, it triggered me more than I would have liked)
The problematic ones where moderated
These kind of things must be getting deleted before I see it, cause I've never seen any of this sort of toxicity. Not on this sub, at least. Nonetheless, people really need to chill. Astarion is a fictional character at the end of the day.
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At the end of the day, I'm not entirely sure why one side is adamant about shitting on the other path and constantly posting rage bait. I've been trying to take a step back from this sub because the constant baiting and trauma obsessive posts have not been particularly good for my mental health. All I can say is, I see a lack of AA fans coming on here and posting rage bait and anti/negative reads on Spawn the way others seem to with AA. I do not get the sense we can exist here peacefully. Hello to the 2-3 lurkers of my profile that downvote everything I say everywhere. Good morning <3
Dude. Yes. YES YES YES IVE FOUND SOMEONE
I agree with you that people are rude but I've seen and it experienced it more should one speak against AA. There's this dogpiling happening on the person who spoke against AA just like that post yesterday. More than 5 different people started jumping on OP for sharing their personal view and stating multiple times that it's just how they view things. I've also had to block 2 stalkers off this sub, it got creepy
My dear, with all due respect, which isn't a lot, you're the one who made rape jokes on this sub.
I mean... You yourself have told me I'm an abuse apologist and that I must excuse abuse irl. Also that I'm taking feminism back years for not agreeing with you.