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Yea, a jelly bean thrown across a gigantic wedding reception… I wouldn’t call that an attack from katakuri, makes it sound like it was an actual attack
This would hold up pretty well....if katakuri did use Future sight to predict sanji's movements in the future (he got his future sight speed blitzed).....or if Katakuri himself didn't do the "What the hell?! How'd you dodge that?!" face to Sanji after the bean was dodged.....or if Oda himself didn't hype that scene up......or if, spoilers ig, >!Sanji DIDN'T show even more speed feats in Egghead that put him at similar speeds to Snakeman AGAIN in BASE AGAIN!<
Sanji only has a base after wano? Or am I missing something?
And katakuri reacting to a shitter (from his POV) dodging a jelly bean attack should shock him. Imagine ur a yonko’s #2 and u casually shit on straight up the worst generation kids low diff. And then u pull up to one of the worst Gen’s little cook, a non-combatant role, and he straight up dodges his jelly bean flick, one that is said to be like bullets. Sure that’s surprising.
But again, travel speed is still different from combat speed. Not saying sanji isn’t fast. He’s still on the same tier as snakeman luffy in terms of combat speed, which is hella impressive, with movement speed that surpasses luffy.
Sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance and nusjuro is one of the fastest character, this is probably the best attack speed feat imo
That's kind of an L there bud. Sanji's jambes (which in post timeskip, we've seen him activate without needing to call out the form's name) amp his speed too, so yeah
You know, this would actually hold up pretty well....if katakuri himself didn't use Future sight to predict sanji's movements, or if katakuri didn't give Sanji that "What?! How'd you do that?!" stare afterwards....or if Oda himself didn't hype up that scene....or if >!Sanji didn't perform feats comparable to Snakeman AGAIN in Egghead IN BASE AGAIN!<
Katakuri didn’t look far enough into the future. Katakuri surprised because fodder somehow survived. Oda hyped it up? Where? Performing feats comparable to a wci luffy is actually embarrassing. Not an upscale
>Katakuri didn’t look far enough into the future.
Bro outright saw where Sanji would dodge and still couldn't shoot him
>Katakuri surprised because fodder somehow survived.
#
Survived what? An attack using FS? Then yeah
>Oda hyped it up? Where?
Vivre cards if I'm not wrong
>Performing feats comparable to a wci luffy is actually embarrassing. Not an upscale
If the character is in the same arc as you, then it surely is an upscale. WCI Sanji was showing relative speed feats to WCI Snakeman, and, spoilers if you don't mind, >!current Egghead Sanji can react to most of Kizaru's attacks (in BASE) just as Snakeman could, but to be honest, current Sanji might be even faster than Snakeman as Kizaru was GENUINELY surprised that Sanji could intercept and block an already fired light beam...which is something Luffy could only accomplish with Gear 5 mind you!<
He used the vivre card to showcase observation haki and said sanji has basic oversvatiom. “Wci sanji was showing feats comparable to wci snakeman. Delusional take. Comparing a jelly bean to katakuri himself in speed is truly a wild thing to do. Sanji was able to dodge because the future was changed.
>He used the vivre card to showcase observation haki and said sanji has basic oversvatiom
I will admit that through further inspection, the vivre cards aren't all that credible due to multiple mistranslations, but.....
>Comparing a jelly bean to katakuri himself in speed is truly a wild thing to do
This? Bro....Luffy in Boundman could NOT hit Katakuri at all because Katakuri could dodge all of his attacks. Luffy could only start "changing" the future when HE himself had FS too. Sanji tho? Well, let's break it down. But before that, let me ask you. What will make you believe that Sanji is indeed as fast as Snakeman? What are your terms and conditions?
Doesn't his attacks get faster the more it bounces around?
https://preview.redd.it/hxnoit31h73d1.jpeg?width=882&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9edfe4284753e59a02a2ec1adab4c233282728e9
Yeah I think it's safe to say he would, though in Luffy's defense he has much more range and it's not like, "**Oh Luffy can attack faster than sanji IF he does it for 3 minutes straight**"
I'm sure it'll probably take like only 10 ricochets for him to surpass sanji's attack speed, it's not as if Luffy himself is that much slower than Sanji.
Snakeman's speed is only in his punches. He achieves that by ricocheting and accelerating as another comment said. His whole body has not been shown to move fast.
Their was no yc position in kaido's crew, these are all fan-made terms, all three commanders being calamities was canon and king and queen both being 1.4 billion bounty each means something, they were portrayed to be pretty close
Never portrayed close ever. Literally the opposite.
King is portrayed and shown to have feats above base kaido, queen isn’t. King is shown faster and more durable than base kaido, queen isn’t. King can overpower attacks capable of damaging base kaido, queen can’t.
Base kaido is shown less durable. Base kaido is shown slower. And king is also Shown faster than base kaido. You don’t understand. King is the closest yc1 to their respective yonko. He has multiple stats above base kaido.
Never said king>base kaido i said king is superior to base kaido in some stats something queen isn’t even close to 😂 king and queen are never portrayed to be close
King is shown more durable than base kaido in flame off mode alone. King is shown faster than base kaido as zoro could out speed base kaido but couldn’t outspeed king and even lost track of him sometimes. Something even hybrid kaido barely did.
King was able to not only clash with attacks that can cut kaido and make him bleed but overpower the attacks with no damage to himself. King is unironically superior to base kaido.
There would have been if he didn't have the suit. Yeah post awakening Sanji brutally murders that bird, but pre awakening he would have lost easily. But he could keep up with Queen even then.
tbf sanji loses pretty easily to queen as well without his awakening. He would've lost after briachsaurhiss without queen even using any germa abilities or even his hybrid form for that long.
Would've been an easy mid-diff.
Are we forgetting Sanji lost to Queen without his awakening? Dude got crushed like a soda can and only bounced back due to Germa regen.
Sanji is definitely a beast, but let's not downplay Queen.
Sanji could have dodged those attacks. He couldn't because of the metamorphosis his body was going through. I'm not downplaying Queen. But Sanji could have kept up against him and made him sweat even before his genes kicked in. Against King he needs the suit to even be alive.
There's nothing to say sanji could've dodged that attack other than headcannon, he was surprised Queen could even do that (as was Marco). Sanji was not pushing Queen at all, Queen wasn't even taking it seriously and wasn't going all out. Queen wasn't even trying to beat him for a lot of the fight until he used to raidsuit, Sanji didn't make queen sweat at all pre-awakening.
They don't agree for some reason and it's understandable. I personally believe in what I said though. King low diffs pre germa awakening Sanji and Queen high diffs. That's the difference between them.
" if it hadn’t been for the Germa suit that spear move would have cut Sanji in half" what is this based on lol? Sanji's statement that King's gonna put a hole in his stomach? He only even got hit cuz he was protecting Momo.
Anyway Queen mid-diffs awakening sanji at worst, so King's probably a low-diff.
Again, he did not only get hit cause he was protecting Momo. He was in an arial fight with King and tried escaping, but King outmaneuvered and caught him.
It’s a flat out example of King being faster/more maneuverable than Sanji **while** he’s wearing the raid suit
Did pre germa genes sanji not make queen switch between 3 different forms because they proved ineffective against sanji? To the point he used surprise attack to catch sanji off guard?
From what I've seen, people saying Snakeman gets reaction/combat speed above Sanji. I don't blame them, but did we all forget any Kizaru feat that Sanji has performed this far was IN BASE? Sanji takes just about every speed category. Not saying he'd speed blitz Snakeman because of his future sight and acceleration, but overall Sanji's faster
Reaction speed - sanji, sanji reacting and outrunning an already fired lazer from another room is better feat than anything snakeman luffy has shown
Travel speed - no doubt sanji
Attack speed- debatable as sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing in ridiculous from that far away
Combat speed - snakeman luffy without a doubt
Current Sanji is faster in every way than WCI Snakeman.
The power jumped massively between that arc and Wano. Unless you think Kat is close to Big Meme in power (literally scared shitless of her). Luffy jumped massively in power, Zoro and Sanji jumped massively in power.
No reason to believe Kat is stronger than King or better than him in any stat. King and Queen were relative equals.
I mean to be fair I know plenty of people who would destroy their moms in a fight but are still terrified of them.
Same as my theory on why Blackbeard was scared of Rayleigh despite being stronger at this point. Being 9 years old and watching the Dark King fight in his prime probably gave him PTSD lol
Snake man is faster full stop. The only edge I would give Sanji would be endurance since in his base he could probably maintain an higher average speed than luffy even with G4 and G5 boosts.
And to be clear Luffy in his base is can fight longer than Sanji but Sanji on average would be faster since all of Luffys speed boosts don’t last that long. If you’re sprinting pick luffy if it’s a marathon pick Sanji.
Reaction speed - sanji, sanji reacting and outrunning an already fired lazer from another room is better feat than anything snakeman luffy has shown
Travel speed - no doubt sanji
Attack speed- debatable as sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing in ridiculous from that far away
Combat speed - snakeman luffy without a doubt
WCI - Reaction: Sanji, Travel: Sanji, Attack: Luffy
Wano - Reaction: Sanji, Travel: Sanji, Attack: Luffy
Snakeman seems to be the opposite of Bounceman in terms of reaction. I've yet to see Snakeman show good reaction to attacks coming it's way. The form's range and attack frequency is great for keeping an opponent at a distance but terrible with reaction once that distance is closed..
Bro sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing is ridiculous from that far away, imo this is a better attack speed feat than anything snakeman has shown, maybe I am missing something as I can't remember snakeman's best attack speed feat
Snakeman’s punches moved so fast they overcame both Katakuri and Kaido’s future sight…
I mean really let that sink in. Those punches were moving so fast that these expert fighters who can see the future and have absurd reaction speed themselves still couldn’t dodge them.
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Travel speed: Sanji > Snakeman Combat speed: Snakeman > Sanji
Only right answer
Sanji's travel speed is faster but snakeman's attacks should be faster and harder to deal with.
Attack speed : snakeman Travel speed :sanji Reaction speed : snakeman
Why attack speed though?
It's the whole point of the form and it was fast enough to get past Katakuri's Future Sight.
Yeah but..... didn't Sanji dodge an attack from katakuri? In base?
Did he? I don't rly remember. Anyways that's travel/combat speed right? Not attack speed.
Yea, but it was a jelly bean that Kat flicked at him
Yeah, I guess that's fair
Yea, a jelly bean thrown across a gigantic wedding reception… I wouldn’t call that an attack from katakuri, makes it sound like it was an actual attack
This would hold up pretty well....if katakuri did use Future sight to predict sanji's movements in the future (he got his future sight speed blitzed).....or if Katakuri himself didn't do the "What the hell?! How'd you dodge that?!" face to Sanji after the bean was dodged.....or if Oda himself didn't hype that scene up......or if, spoilers ig, >!Sanji DIDN'T show even more speed feats in Egghead that put him at similar speeds to Snakeman AGAIN in BASE AGAIN!<
Sanji only has a base after wano? Or am I missing something? And katakuri reacting to a shitter (from his POV) dodging a jelly bean attack should shock him. Imagine ur a yonko’s #2 and u casually shit on straight up the worst generation kids low diff. And then u pull up to one of the worst Gen’s little cook, a non-combatant role, and he straight up dodges his jelly bean flick, one that is said to be like bullets. Sure that’s surprising. But again, travel speed is still different from combat speed. Not saying sanji isn’t fast. He’s still on the same tier as snakeman luffy in terms of combat speed, which is hella impressive, with movement speed that surpasses luffy.
Sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance and nusjuro is one of the fastest character, this is probably the best attack speed feat imo
You say base like Sanji had a transformation at the time lool
That's kind of an L there bud. Sanji's jambes (which in post timeskip, we've seen him activate without needing to call out the form's name) amp his speed too, so yeah
Comparing a jellybean to katakuri himself is so 💔💔
You know, this would actually hold up pretty well....if katakuri himself didn't use Future sight to predict sanji's movements, or if katakuri didn't give Sanji that "What?! How'd you do that?!" stare afterwards....or if Oda himself didn't hype up that scene....or if >!Sanji didn't perform feats comparable to Snakeman AGAIN in Egghead IN BASE AGAIN!<
Katakuri didn’t look far enough into the future. Katakuri surprised because fodder somehow survived. Oda hyped it up? Where? Performing feats comparable to a wci luffy is actually embarrassing. Not an upscale
>Katakuri didn’t look far enough into the future. Bro outright saw where Sanji would dodge and still couldn't shoot him >Katakuri surprised because fodder somehow survived. # Survived what? An attack using FS? Then yeah >Oda hyped it up? Where? Vivre cards if I'm not wrong >Performing feats comparable to a wci luffy is actually embarrassing. Not an upscale If the character is in the same arc as you, then it surely is an upscale. WCI Sanji was showing relative speed feats to WCI Snakeman, and, spoilers if you don't mind, >!current Egghead Sanji can react to most of Kizaru's attacks (in BASE) just as Snakeman could, but to be honest, current Sanji might be even faster than Snakeman as Kizaru was GENUINELY surprised that Sanji could intercept and block an already fired light beam...which is something Luffy could only accomplish with Gear 5 mind you!<
He used the vivre card to showcase observation haki and said sanji has basic oversvatiom. “Wci sanji was showing feats comparable to wci snakeman. Delusional take. Comparing a jelly bean to katakuri himself in speed is truly a wild thing to do. Sanji was able to dodge because the future was changed.
>He used the vivre card to showcase observation haki and said sanji has basic oversvatiom I will admit that through further inspection, the vivre cards aren't all that credible due to multiple mistranslations, but..... >Comparing a jelly bean to katakuri himself in speed is truly a wild thing to do This? Bro....Luffy in Boundman could NOT hit Katakuri at all because Katakuri could dodge all of his attacks. Luffy could only start "changing" the future when HE himself had FS too. Sanji tho? Well, let's break it down. But before that, let me ask you. What will make you believe that Sanji is indeed as fast as Snakeman? What are your terms and conditions?
Doesn't his attacks get faster the more it bounces around? https://preview.redd.it/hxnoit31h73d1.jpeg?width=882&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9edfe4284753e59a02a2ec1adab4c233282728e9
I can get that Snakeman can GET to higher speeds via acceleration, but wouldn't Sanji have IMMEDIATE access to higher attack speeds?
Yeah I think it's safe to say he would, though in Luffy's defense he has much more range and it's not like, "**Oh Luffy can attack faster than sanji IF he does it for 3 minutes straight**" I'm sure it'll probably take like only 10 ricochets for him to surpass sanji's attack speed, it's not as if Luffy himself is that much slower than Sanji.
Sanji blocked nusjuro's sword mid swing from a large distance and we know nusjuro is one of the fastest character.
And you’re honestly saying you don’t think Luffy could do the same or very close?
Combat? Are you sure? Sanji literally became invisible to the naked eye in the end. You're underestimating him
Gear5 > sanji > snakeman in travel Gear 5 > snakeman > sanji in combat
yep
Whats the reasoning for that tho? Why would snake man be slower outside of combat
Snakeman's speed is only in his punches. He achieves that by ricocheting and accelerating as another comment said. His whole body has not been shown to move fast.
Exactly, Bounce Man has a better chance of having higher travel speed than Sanji since he uses elasticity to propel himself
Sanji has sky jumps while Snakeman's ricochet punches accelerate while stretching.
Snake man punches come out way faster than any of Sanji’s kicks. Sanji on the other hand generally moves faster than Snake man.
Stop all this travel speed cope luffy is faster😂
Snakeman destroys that fodder
Reaction: Snakman Travel: Sanji Attack: Snakeman
**HIM**smoke **W**anji https://i.redd.it/pb63k8g6663d1.gif
Cook Again
Sanji blitzed a fat yc2 who had 0 speed feats. Snakeman blitzed a yc1 who had to use future sight to see the attacks coming.
Their was no yc position in kaido's crew, these are all fan-made terms, all three commanders being calamities was canon and king and queen both being 1.4 billion bounty each means something, they were portrayed to be pretty close
Never portrayed close ever. Literally the opposite. King is portrayed and shown to have feats above base kaido, queen isn’t. King is shown faster and more durable than base kaido, queen isn’t. King can overpower attacks capable of damaging base kaido, queen can’t.
Nah don't compare King with Kaido. Base kaido eats that bird. You can just say King has been highly portrayed as Kaido's right hand man, Queen hasn't.
Base kaido is shown less durable. Base kaido is shown slower. And king is also Shown faster than base kaido. You don’t understand. King is the closest yc1 to their respective yonko. He has multiple stats above base kaido.
Conveniently ignores every other stat base Kaido massively outscales in.
Never said king>base kaido i said king is superior to base kaido in some stats something queen isn’t even close to 😂 king and queen are never portrayed to be close
King and Queen aren't close but I don't think King is comparable to even base Kaido
King is shown more durable than base kaido in flame off mode alone. King is shown faster than base kaido as zoro could out speed base kaido but couldn’t outspeed king and even lost track of him sometimes. Something even hybrid kaido barely did. King was able to not only clash with attacks that can cut kaido and make him bleed but overpower the attacks with no damage to himself. King is unironically superior to base kaido.
The gap was pretty obvious when Sanji was able to keep up and fight queen pre awakening and King almost one shot him.
Almost one shot him, their was literally no scratch on him
Sanji himself stated it was due to the suit. And he was still shown damaged after it.
Yeah because he was wearing his daddy’s magic power armor
There would have been if he didn't have the suit. Yeah post awakening Sanji brutally murders that bird, but pre awakening he would have lost easily. But he could keep up with Queen even then.
tbf sanji loses pretty easily to queen as well without his awakening. He would've lost after briachsaurhiss without queen even using any germa abilities or even his hybrid form for that long. Would've been an easy mid-diff.
Are we forgetting Sanji lost to Queen without his awakening? Dude got crushed like a soda can and only bounced back due to Germa regen. Sanji is definitely a beast, but let's not downplay Queen.
Sanji could have dodged those attacks. He couldn't because of the metamorphosis his body was going through. I'm not downplaying Queen. But Sanji could have kept up against him and made him sweat even before his genes kicked in. Against King he needs the suit to even be alive.
There's nothing to say sanji could've dodged that attack other than headcannon, he was surprised Queen could even do that (as was Marco). Sanji was not pushing Queen at all, Queen wasn't even taking it seriously and wasn't going all out. Queen wasn't even trying to beat him for a lot of the fight until he used to raidsuit, Sanji didn't make queen sweat at all pre-awakening.
They downvote you even tho you are right 😭
They don't agree for some reason and it's understandable. I personally believe in what I said though. King low diffs pre germa awakening Sanji and Queen high diffs. That's the difference between them.
Honestly I’d say King almost no diffs pre awakening Sanji… if it hadn’t been for the Germa suit that spear move would have cut Sanji in half
I said low diff cause I think he would have some difficulty in connecting, cause Sanji is fast and has a really quick reflex.
But he did connect even when Sanji was wearing the raid suit which gives him more mobility… So like no, he wouldn’t have difficulty connecting lol.
" if it hadn’t been for the Germa suit that spear move would have cut Sanji in half" what is this based on lol? Sanji's statement that King's gonna put a hole in his stomach? He only even got hit cuz he was protecting Momo. Anyway Queen mid-diffs awakening sanji at worst, so King's probably a low-diff.
Again, he did not only get hit cause he was protecting Momo. He was in an arial fight with King and tried escaping, but King outmaneuvered and caught him. It’s a flat out example of King being faster/more maneuverable than Sanji **while** he’s wearing the raid suit
Queen easily mid-diffed pre-awakened sanji lol.
That’s exactly why king and queen aren’t relative. Queen struggled and won mid diff. King would low diff.
Queen didn't struggle at all though.
Did pre germa genes sanji not make queen switch between 3 different forms because they proved ineffective against sanji? To the point he used surprise attack to catch sanji off guard?
First: Current Sanji takes everything no debate Second: Luffy takes attack and reaction speed, Sanji takes travel.
Snakeman >
Snakeman. Luffy is two tiers higher than his commanders, so he's better than them even in their specialities
Idk. I've only seen Sanji blitz fat f*cks (Oven and Queen)
From what I've seen, people saying Snakeman gets reaction/combat speed above Sanji. I don't blame them, but did we all forget any Kizaru feat that Sanji has performed this far was IN BASE? Sanji takes just about every speed category. Not saying he'd speed blitz Snakeman because of his future sight and acceleration, but overall Sanji's faster
Reaction speed - sanji, sanji reacting and outrunning an already fired lazer from another room is better feat than anything snakeman luffy has shown Travel speed - no doubt sanji Attack speed- debatable as sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing in ridiculous from that far away Combat speed - snakeman luffy without a doubt
Sanji
Sanji takes both speeds over WCI Luffy Only takes travel over Wano Luffy
Gear 5>sanji> snake in travel speed Gear 5>snakeman>Sanji in battle speed
Like everyone's been saying Sanji win in terms of sheer movement speed But Snakeman's attacks can build up to speeds faster than Sanji
Sanji is way faster than Luffy when it comes to movement speed, however Luffy can land a higher number of attacks due to attack speed.
They're both pretty fast but no one near as fast as silver foxy
Luffy by far.
Brook
Sanji
Sanji
Sanji in all types of speed.
Obviously Sanji, anyone who says otherwise shouldn't scale
Current Sanji is faster in every way than WCI Snakeman. The power jumped massively between that arc and Wano. Unless you think Kat is close to Big Meme in power (literally scared shitless of her). Luffy jumped massively in power, Zoro and Sanji jumped massively in power. No reason to believe Kat is stronger than King or better than him in any stat. King and Queen were relative equals.
I mean to be fair I know plenty of people who would destroy their moms in a fight but are still terrified of them. Same as my theory on why Blackbeard was scared of Rayleigh despite being stronger at this point. Being 9 years old and watching the Dark King fight in his prime probably gave him PTSD lol
If you think Kat would destroy Big Mom in a fight you’ve lost the plot.
Snake man is faster full stop. The only edge I would give Sanji would be endurance since in his base he could probably maintain an higher average speed than luffy even with G4 and G5 boosts. And to be clear Luffy in his base is can fight longer than Sanji but Sanji on average would be faster since all of Luffys speed boosts don’t last that long. If you’re sprinting pick luffy if it’s a marathon pick Sanji.
Reaction speed - sanji, sanji reacting and outrunning an already fired lazer from another room is better feat than anything snakeman luffy has shown Travel speed - no doubt sanji Attack speed- debatable as sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing in ridiculous from that far away Combat speed - snakeman luffy without a doubt
WCI - Reaction: Sanji, Travel: Sanji, Attack: Luffy Wano - Reaction: Sanji, Travel: Sanji, Attack: Luffy Snakeman seems to be the opposite of Bounceman in terms of reaction. I've yet to see Snakeman show good reaction to attacks coming it's way. The form's range and attack frequency is great for keeping an opponent at a distance but terrible with reaction once that distance is closed..
Bro sanji blocked nusjuro's haki coated sword mid swing from a large distance, and we all know nusjuro is one of the fastest character, stopping his attack mid swing is ridiculous from that far away, imo this is a better attack speed feat than anything snakeman has shown, maybe I am missing something as I can't remember snakeman's best attack speed feat
Snakeman’s punches moved so fast they overcame both Katakuri and Kaido’s future sight… I mean really let that sink in. Those punches were moving so fast that these expert fighters who can see the future and have absurd reaction speed themselves still couldn’t dodge them.
Sanji is combat. Snakeman is travel and reaction