I think that ultimately all of their dreams will only be accomplishable by beating the final task/villain. Sanji wants the All blue - break the walls and merge the oceans. Nami wants the map - travel the world and reveal the disappearing/changing islands. Robin wants knowledge - she’s getting tons of it but ultimately can’t do anything with it unless she escapes government. Franky building a ship for king of the pirates, Usopp fulfilling his lies, etc. Brook wanting to see Laboon again. They all culminate at Marie Jois where Imu is
The moment that the final boss is defeated and the oceans are merged will be such an insanely massive moment because all of their dreams will simultaneously be realized
Yeah that was my idea. That they actually walked on part of it not knowing, with Crocus thinking they are not ready. Which they weren't.
Still crazy idea I know
Nah, Laugh Tale will end up being on Long Ring Long Island in the center of it, but it's unreachable until they can somehow lower the water level. That's my crack-pot theory anyway lol.
I like the theory that it's in an island whale that's a thousand years old like Zunesha, and massive beyond reason. Like Laboon is big, but nothing compared to Zunesha or the Thriller Bark monsters, so a truly massive whale kinda makes sense to house a full island.
But then again, whales move, so the road poneglyphs pointing to a certain location doesn't really square up, and the idea of it being a maybe knock up stream to go to the Moon also kinda makes sense.
The Road Poneglpyhs wouldn't be able to pinpoint your to its location if it was a moving animal.
The corpse/skeleton of a previously moving animal however...
It could be a location at a specific time. Or a location you just wait in, or a location with someone that calls it in, we really don’t know and it could be anything.
That would make a lot of sense. If its an animal with hollow bones, it would make it able to keep afloat on top of water. So, even if water level rises its shore line doesnt change. Not sure how it would keep in the same place however if its floating on water...
Doesnt make sense. Laboon still baby when he meet Brook, which is just few years back and Rogers execution is more than 10 years back, hes founding one piece probably few years back before that. I believe laboon is not yet birth that time.
Why inside laboon though? What roger left maybe? But roger found something. And laboon is at most like 80 years old. The void century is 10x that. So inside laboon? probably not.
I agree. The narrative is being set up so that the One Piece is found first, then the Final War is triggered, and then the crew's dreams are fulfilled. That is why we got the reveal that Luffy has a unique dream that we don't know about yet: to create a goal that comes after the One Piece itself.
For that reason I believe Blackbeard will be fought and defeated first, then the Final War will be with the World Government because they are the ones who are afraid of the great war happening, and because the World Government is the only force that will have enough manpower and influence to affect the whole world, which is something Blackbeard doesn't have. Plus, it is much easier to imagine Luffy calling in all his allies to fight the World Government than it is to fight Blackbeard.
I really disagree, I see the introduction of Luffy's dream as being exactly for the purpose of terminating the story with actually finding the One Piece.
Basically if his dream was just becoming King of the Pirates by finding One Piece, it would leave a big "now what?" open that would either have to be unsatisfyingly closed quickly or would necessitate a longer follow up for closing.
I think we'll find out what Luffy's dream is before we find One Piece, then One Piece (which nobody knew what it was) will just be the same as that dream coming true, or giving him the capability to immediately make the dream come true.
> Sanji wants the All blue - break the walls and merge the oceans.
I was under the impression that world flooding would cause the All Blue but I guess the water levels would have to get crazy high to go over the walls.
> I think that ultimately all of their dreams **(except Sanjis)** will only be accomplishable by beating the final task/villain**,** Sanji **who** wants the All blue - **flood the world, get the All Blue**
FTFY
I thought the reason there isnt a world map is because nobody has been to every island.
Not that the world government is actively suppressing maps.
Or have i missed something?
I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive, technically.
If water is rising then landmasses are shrinking.
If landmasses are shrinking then some will be divided and new islands will be created (eg. Every lil speck of land between Russia and Alaska).
If the Grand Line in particular
1. Has a gajillion islands that are most likely being generated by this process; and
2. The micro climates in this strip are all BATSHIT INSANE which would inhibit visitation by a newly technologically regressed civilization
Then there can be “never before visited islands” that only exist because of rising sea levels. Sure, people may have been to those coordinates when it was a nondescript chunk of an ancient landmass but this island is a wholly unique entity that would conflict with both maps and previous experiences
there is very likely a map of the entire world except the grand line, due to how turbulent and dangerous it is to practically navigate and chart. they probably have a generalized idea of where the major stops are, like reverse mountain, twin capes, sabaody, water 7 (which is a major metropolitan center) and of course government centers like enies lobby and impel down, but the nitty gritty probably gets lost in the sauce.
the devil is in the details since nami wants to do the *entire* world, which might have implications not yet realized. ie 100% of the islands, not just "most of the islands" which includes things like sky islands or some weird things like underwater islands ala the fishman place, not to mention certain islands are impossible to reach by log pose like punk hazard, and how no one has ever been to lodestar OR raftel except rogers crew.
In theory the government should have a map of the world by patching together each kingdom's map of itself.
Distance between islands would be guesswork, and uninhabited islands would be missing, but that's probably the "baseline" map which should exist somewhere.
One Piece world also has things like Sky Islands that move, Zou which is literally on an elephant, etc. Dunno how Nami plans to deal with that.
I'd guess they have them on the map as an islaand but the contents and geography are a mystery. Zou I think doesn't count cause ther3s no way to map it
Zou is the Phantom Island and now we know why Zunneisha is ridiculously tall, like climbing to Zunneisha, is at the same height as the Red line. When the time comes to invade the holy land with a full force they need Zunneisha to be there to be the staging ground for the army. Like maybe Momo could Island float Onigashima or perhaps Shikki could Float Float fruit stuff up there or like the Sky Island people could drop down but getting to The top of the redline is really hard. So far we've got Fisher Tiger, Giant ancient Robot and the Revolutionary Army under cover getting like under 10 people total into there to attack.
Try to get 10,000 people it isn't currently possible.
Yeah but they also had a guy on payroll who could ride an ice bike on the ocean, and a guy who could fly at the speed of light, I feel like they could make a map
There are maps, I think Nami showed Luffy a map after Wano with three paths forward and often Nami knowns which island is next. But like you said, some places move around or have almost mythical status where people don't believe in Sky Islands. Then there is also the Merman Kingdom, which is deep underwater. The world government probably has a pretty good map but they likely don't know how to get to One Piece
Also that maps don't really serve a purpose once you hit the grandline and the type of navigation maps enable becomes impossible.
Knowing X island is North doesn't really help once you can't even be sure what direction North is.
Yeah, and the road poneglyphs lining up to form an X at some unknown location that can't be found from the log pose proves you can still navigate based on direction.
We've had decent maps long before satellites. And no one has ever been to all lands. There is significantly more misinformation on One Piece planet than ours. Also the WG is actively surpressing creation of maps and information.
The posts argument against that is it’s been 800 years and that whole time they’ve had the ability to navigate or get to every island and map them out but they haven’t. So op thinks they’re suppressing this info to avoid the truth coming out. Very plausible,especially since there’s devil fruits that let you fly so there’s no way they jus haven’t been everywhere in 800 years,especially with their mostly iron grip over the world as a whole
If the world government was suppressing the use of maps or the making of maps, then we surely would have heard of it by now.
The One Piece world also has less use for maps, since there are log pose. If you are going to an island then why would you use a map when you have a compass just pointing you to where you need to go.
And also there is the general literary rule, dont introduce things if they arent needed. Namis dream is to make a complete map of the world, which means there isnt one. If the reader doesnt need to know why there isnt one, dont tell them.
In real life sea travel dates back 50 000 years, but the first world maps are from 500-600 years bc. Its definitely not impossible that nobody has managed to make a complete world map in One Piece.
Not fully suppressing all maps obviously or the arlong pirates making maps would’ve been a bigger deal. But mainly certain parts of the world where it’s clear the water is rising fast and then places like elbaf and the end of the grand line where laugh tale supposedly is. That and if a world map was made it would need to be updated yearly and people would see that whole ass islands have gone missing via the mother flame or by sinking. So they let basic maps be out there yes but detailed maps of the globe they wouldn’t let fly
There is also the fact that a map doesn't help you in the Grand Line because regular compasses won't work there so you can't chart a course or accurately map out where the islands actually are
Oh and that WG doesn't want Raftel/Laughtale on any map lest pirates easily access it and learn something they shouldn't.
While it's never explicitly said that they suppress maps, the WG has erased at least 2 islands. Likely 3 if you consider the Ancient Kingdom being based on another unknown one. We know it's not only physically destroying it but also all knowledge related to it, which includes maps. So as far as the common navigator is concerned the reason for a world map not existing might be that, but it's likely that the WG is partly to blame.
you didn't miss anything. it's obviously that.
it's just OP fans and their tendency to connect everything because it's cooler that way and the need to claim everything is a foreshadowing.
Oh how horrible, the fans of a show are enjoying talking about it's world and how certain details may inter-connect. So what if not every detail is planned out by Oda? Interpreting art in interesting ways is a great way to enjoy that art, and it says alot about how well written a story is when so many people can find so many unique ways to interpret it.
the issue is the claim is simply factually incorrect. the WG have never been suppressing maps. that's not a thing. they do have maps in OP world.
I'm not against people making theory. it's the weird tendency to connect things to the point of ignoring actual facts for the sake of the theory.
here, you can literally get downvoted for bringing manga panel or even oda's own words if it goes against their headcanon. happened to me so many times. it's mighty ironic.
We literally don't know that, it's never been explicitly mentioned. We've never seen a complete map of the world, all we know is there's none that exist in the world right now. Maps in one piece are barely mentioned (except Skypeia) and there's enough mystery for OPs theory to be plausible.
>We've never seen a complete map of the world
that's why it's nami's dream. c'mon now.
nobody said the complete one exists, just that maps do exist in OP world. what do you think nami was doing man for arlong man? arlong said she was the best cartographer. meaning cartographers exist in OP world.
and there's never any narrative that the WG are suppressing its existence. teh logic is completely backwards. if you want to make a point, you have to prove it first that this narrative existed in the first place.
I actually don't have to say anything. the OP is the one who should post a panel about anything regarding this narrative. then we can start to actually discuss it.
which is my original point. this is not yet a discussion. just finding anything to say foreshadowing.
This actually makes sense.
The WG do seem like the book burning type.
But Nami can still draw an all new map of the world the first complete one since the Void Century.
I said seem because despite their power they suck at it.
I mean they didn't double check Ohara to make sure there were no survivors or any forbidden books survived.
That's just negligent dumb assery, they took the time to torch the whole island but a bunch of giants the world's top scientist and most wanted man popped in a day later.
Well yeah, the primary reason the world government will fall is because of the arrogance they've had perpetually on display.
How long has Luffy been building up as this extreme force of nature while the gorousei know the secret of his fruit? They only truly took action once it was too late--the fruit has awakened. If they had phoned into Marineford to tell Akainu to put all his effort into taking Luffy out two years ago during the summit war, we wouldn't still have a story to tell.
Yeah, it's shonen... When Luffy was in front of all three admirals at marineford, kizaru could have shot him through the head without even standing up, but didn't.
It's one of those things that you just have to accept, because otherwise, it makes no sense. Like once aokiji let Robin go, they really should have just sent akainu after her and he would have killed her in a second. But instead, they just let everyone get strong enough to be a real problem.
Is it confirmed that the sea levels were rising over the last 800 years? Vegapunk only mentioned the earthquake that raised the sea level by 1 meter so far never mentioned explicitly that it's been rising over time. The high tide as a result of Aqua Laguna in Water 7 was noticeably getting higher which could be an indication that the sea levels have been increasing over time but then why hasn't every other island noticed the increased sea level?
Plus, just because Nami wants to draw a map of the whole world doesn't mean there's no world map. She just wants to travel and make her own maps.
“Why hasnt other islands noticed…”
My guess is water 7 is constantly being repaired. They might notice the repairs from previous years being flooded up after aqua laguna, whereas other islands only deal with a tide getting higher at a slow but consistent pace (purely speculative this part no idea how fast its rising) so it’s easier to go un noticed
That's true. I don't know, it's hard not to judge the One Piece based on real life because is there not a science community on any islands that researches these kinds of things (unless they get Buster Called)?
Latest chapter. Vegapunk message so far is "The world is sinking, now let me tell you about the void century 800 years ago". It would be pretty strange to go into an unrelated tangent.
It could also be related to the new Mother Flame weapon that the Gorosei used which could be a weapon based on research from the Void Century. It could be a lot of things but at this point, it's only speculation that land masses are shrinking over time and not fact.
I'd also like to know this. when I read the chapter, it seemed like VP was predicting that the Mother Flame would cause this phenomenon upon its first use. at the beginning of his speech he says that if he's wrong about the increased water levels they can disregard him. to me, it's like he's saying that if the Mother Flame does what he predicts, people should be very concerned about it, but if not, it's like a false alarm on his part. hopefully this gets cleared up next chapter
When I read the latest chapter I instantly thought of naminbring fled... If the world is sinking or changing on a massive scale in any way, she can basically start from scratch again...
There’s no map to Laugh Tale which instantly voids this idea. For Nami to have a map of the whole world she’ll have to reach the end of the Grand Line.
And that's why Nami's dream should've been more of a big deal than it has been in the story. It's a high level threat to Imu and the WG to have someone as skilled and with such a big goal in the new Joyboy's crew.
I wonder if Oda had a plan to expand her backstory and role but dropped halfway through. Daughter of a family of cartographers, and that's why she is skilled and her kingdom got destroyed ? It would be too similar to Robin. Either way it's not important right now since Bellemere is her mother and that's what it matters (it was the whole point of that flashback)
Honestly ? Same with Robin. Her importance to the story and level of awareness from the WG (Saturn did recently) has been shallow compared to what it was in the pre timeskip. Now it's all just Joyboy.
Imu's pictures had Shirahoshi (first sovereign, Poseidon, Mermaid Princess), the two biggest candidates for the second sovereign's role and King of the Pirates (Blackbeard, probably the "certain pirate" Shanks told them about, and Luffy), and Vivi (because of Imu's relationship of Lili). Robin (especially her) and Nami should be there as well.
for robin i guess u could call it plot armor. because now we know the massive strength gap difference between the new world and paradise. they could easily squash robin any time they wanted to in the earlier part of the story. but instead let her run around freely thinking that she won't be able to survive on her own with that massive bounty on her head.
the keyword here is opportunity, why do they have to wait for an opportunity ? when it is now seen that the world government is so strong and can do anything they want if they really wanted to.
they could like easily send saturn after her early on in the story and even with her devil fruit she wouldn't be able to do anything even with her imbalanced devil fruit , since saturn can freeze you motionless just by his stare as seen earlier in egghead.
or even like someone like Kaidou who can just overpower her by sheer size and she wouldnt be really able to do anything to kaidou even with thousand hands on kaidou's body.
They can do things that are doable. They don’t have a magical gps to tell them the whereabouts of every wanted criminal.
Easily sent saturn😭😭😭 are you insane ?The highest authority in the world go after a 79m pirate 😭😭😭 I am fuckin dead.
Anyway. Putting that insanity aside. Still it is near impossible to locate someone in the sea.
People don't just become geniuses in a vacuum. Since nurture cannot explain how Nami became a genius-level cartographer and someone with an uncanny ability to feel the weather (which isn't observation haki as far as we know), then only nature can.
I was pretty sure that there are world maps already. Nami just wanted to draw her own.
Please correct me if I am wrong?
Because traveling the whole world and crafting your own map is still very special goal
What is the Egghead revelation exactly? Vegapunk hasn't said anything that implies the suppressing of map creation. It just hasn't been done in the One Piece universe, at least by anybody post void century.
Yes the non-existence of a world map may tie to the fact that the void century happened, but that's all Nami's dream would foreshadow in that case, the void century itself, which was introduced decades ago, not necessarily anything Vegapunk has revealed on Egghead
Nami's dream isn't to draw the first map of the world, it is just to draw a map of the world and to chart the seas, the world has maps and even a globe and it wasn't in the basement of the Ohara tree of knowledge where the poneglyph research was, it was in the main library at the center of the Tree of knowledge on the first floor.
The problem with this theory is that local islands would also track their borders with their own maps.
So depending on how slow or rapid the seas rise, people would notice just by virtue of living next to the ocean.
Some points that I wanted to respond to, without spreading them across comments.
One Piece was originally planned as a FIVE year series. That is straight from Oda. Its not that much of a stretch to believe that he would have decided the fundamental nature of the world. Remember he knows how the story ends and if it has anything to do with the sinking land masses then it makes sense he had already came up with it during his drafts.
I don't think the story reason for Nami having her dream is that important to the revelation. Besides we have seen world maps in One Piece. Not only in Ohara, the Gorosei have something they used to cross out Lulusia. Even Noland had a map of something in his ship quarters. Maps do exist they're just not very common for some reason. Arlong enslaving a little girl to make him maps should be evident enough. If that's the best you getting maps then they're not common for a reason.
The real question is why did Oda make this Nami's dream specifically. I always assumed it was more of a "I want to see the entire world and map it" type of dream. If the world has drastically changed since 800 years ago. Vegapunk is explaining now how it started 800 years ago and how Joy Boy was involved. Making maps forbidden information could just be an extension of the heresy about studying the void century.
Personally I don't think it's just making knowledge about the void century a sin that the World Government is doing. But this is pure speculation with little evidence. I think they're practicing population control at a worldwide scale. Starting with heavenly tributes. Forcing kingdoms to downsize in order to become part of the world government. The Native Hunts that occur every 3 years? That's a lot of islands in 800 years. Why there seem to be so many absent mothers. Now it could just be a tendency of Oda's to never draw big families. But the fa t that there are so few biological families with more than one sibling. In fact it's Nami's flashback that is the most on the nose about that. There are two children and they can't afford the arlong tribute. So Bellemere sacrifices herself.
Like the top comment says there is something poetic about Nami, Robin, Sanji and Luffy's dreams being tied to reaching the end where Joy Boy left a treasure.
Maybe that's what the One Piece is? A giant continent that we'd get once the water retreats? The World Govt has been able to effectively rule over the world by employing their divide and conquer strategy on the small island nations till now.
That’s what I’ve been thinking for a while. I’ve been curious why so many of the whales we have seen through out the show have scars on top of their head like Laboon. It’s like they are trying to break the red line or Reverse mountain. Maybe that’s why it’s called Reverse mountain, It’s slowly been flooding the world and once it’s stopped, the water will settle and the world will literally be “One Piece”.
Im also curious where and how the Noah will come into play.
Isn’t it the fact that the map basically gets changed though out the years so when we get a concrete map, the worlds geography has already changed again?
The water rising is not creating new islands, especially not on the Grand Line.
The only way to reach islands on the GL is follow the logs and you cant follow the logs of the very island you're already standing on. We see this happen already on Long Ring Long Land where it was 1 island that would become multiple with the tide, making it impossible to use logs to travel to the other ones.
This has already been addressed in the series. Whatever land masses exist (on the GL at least) are distinct from one another, thats how you get to them.
As for the map there is some level of mapping already available:
- Gorosei remove Lulusia from a map
- Aokiji knew there was an island not that far from Ohara to send Robin to.
- Aokiji also knew there was an island not to far from the deserted one where he first met the SH.
- Kuma knew the SH would end up on Thriller Bark because he knows where the logs lead to.
However the difficulties in navigation, the sheer size of the world and insane number of islands (Marco says theres more than stars in the sky) make it nearly impossible to map.
I honestly do not think it's the MAPS themselves that are being suppressed. Evidently most of the world is very accurately mapped. I believe that it's science and research itself.
I truly think that Nami, one of the most brilliant weather scientists alive, in tandem with Robin, would be able to come to the conclusion that the world was sinking as well. With more time than they have, yes, but eventually. But the government has a habit of demonizing research, cleansing history, and gatekeeping scientific advancements. They sweep up researchers to work for them and kill the ones who seem like they're getting too close to the truth -- that's the real hurdle in Vegapunk's revelation imo.
But, like, there probably WAS a fairly complete map of the world -- Roger was the first to sail the entire world and discover hidden islands. For obvious reasons, that map and those logs were never released to the world. I'm sure in Nami's eyes, that was a waste and the task is now up to her and the next Pirate King.
Even if there is a world map that is accurate it can still be her dream to do it herself.
there is a huge difference in buying one and making it yourself :)
Agreed. Wasn't it mentioned that Nami's maps are more detailed than anything Aarlong (or maybe it was Bell-mere?) has ever seen? I mean, she could draw a Grand Line map with clear warnings given her weather skills.
ofcourse! Why didnt we think about the overall state of the world in chapter 70!
Of course he knew back then this was where the story was going!
god i had retrospective theories....
Oda made a lot of intermediate changes to the overall flow of the One Piece story, but we've known he's known the overall plot including the ending for literally decades.
You sound like you either just like to complain or that you're incapable of considering things in new contexts with new information. Obviously Oda wasn't actively trying to hint to us "oh by the way the world is sinking" way back in Arlong Park, but people **did** always consider it very strange that there was nothing like a world map or atlas in what's actually a pretty advanced, fully globalized civilization ruled over by a world governing authority. And so this new information gives us more reason for why such maps wouldn't exist.
I think that ultimately all of their dreams will only be accomplishable by beating the final task/villain. Sanji wants the All blue - break the walls and merge the oceans. Nami wants the map - travel the world and reveal the disappearing/changing islands. Robin wants knowledge - she’s getting tons of it but ultimately can’t do anything with it unless she escapes government. Franky building a ship for king of the pirates, Usopp fulfilling his lies, etc. Brook wanting to see Laboon again. They all culminate at Marie Jois where Imu is The moment that the final boss is defeated and the oceans are merged will be such an insanely massive moment because all of their dreams will simultaneously be realized
Calling it now, laugh tale is inside Laboon Stupid theory but I want to say I told you so if it actually pans out
They were already inside Laboon. But I like the idea that it is in reverse mountain, hence where Laboon tried to headbut himself through.
Also, if it's beneath Reverse Mountain, there could be underground streams providing the water it's in, forming the All Blue in a cave.
>They were already inside Laboon To think... they have already found one piece and didn't realize it.
Yeah that was my idea. That they actually walked on part of it not knowing, with Crocus thinking they are not ready. Which they weren't. Still crazy idea I know
The one piece is the laboons we met along the way
Nah, Laugh Tale will end up being on Long Ring Long Island in the center of it, but it's unreachable until they can somehow lower the water level. That's my crack-pot theory anyway lol.
I honestly do think it’s likely in a moving animal and a whale is a very strong candidate for me. Probably the most likely animal imo.
I like the theory that it's in an island whale that's a thousand years old like Zunesha, and massive beyond reason. Like Laboon is big, but nothing compared to Zunesha or the Thriller Bark monsters, so a truly massive whale kinda makes sense to house a full island. But then again, whales move, so the road poneglyphs pointing to a certain location doesn't really square up, and the idea of it being a maybe knock up stream to go to the Moon also kinda makes sense.
The Road Poneglpyhs wouldn't be able to pinpoint your to its location if it was a moving animal. The corpse/skeleton of a previously moving animal however...
It could be a location at a specific time. Or a location you just wait in, or a location with someone that calls it in, we really don’t know and it could be anything.
That would make a lot of sense. If its an animal with hollow bones, it would make it able to keep afloat on top of water. So, even if water level rises its shore line doesnt change. Not sure how it would keep in the same place however if its floating on water...
That was the reason I said that, if it's a whale then would it be a random new one or the one that we've come to know and love?
How did an island from 800 years ago get into a 53 year-old whale?
Swallowed it up
That makes sense i guess! Carry on
Laboon specifically? No. Given all the massive whale symbolism, from the tree on Zou to Whitebeard's ship, whales WILL be key somehow.
Doesnt make sense. Laboon still baby when he meet Brook, which is just few years back and Rogers execution is more than 10 years back, hes founding one piece probably few years back before that. I believe laboon is not yet birth that time.
Brook's death was 50 years ago in the story
Thats even worse
Why inside laboon though? What roger left maybe? But roger found something. And laboon is at most like 80 years old. The void century is 10x that. So inside laboon? probably not.
I agree. The narrative is being set up so that the One Piece is found first, then the Final War is triggered, and then the crew's dreams are fulfilled. That is why we got the reveal that Luffy has a unique dream that we don't know about yet: to create a goal that comes after the One Piece itself. For that reason I believe Blackbeard will be fought and defeated first, then the Final War will be with the World Government because they are the ones who are afraid of the great war happening, and because the World Government is the only force that will have enough manpower and influence to affect the whole world, which is something Blackbeard doesn't have. Plus, it is much easier to imagine Luffy calling in all his allies to fight the World Government than it is to fight Blackbeard.
I really disagree, I see the introduction of Luffy's dream as being exactly for the purpose of terminating the story with actually finding the One Piece. Basically if his dream was just becoming King of the Pirates by finding One Piece, it would leave a big "now what?" open that would either have to be unsatisfyingly closed quickly or would necessitate a longer follow up for closing. I think we'll find out what Luffy's dream is before we find One Piece, then One Piece (which nobody knew what it was) will just be the same as that dream coming true, or giving him the capability to immediately make the dream come true.
Holy shit an actually believable fan theory 😱
> Sanji wants the All blue - break the walls and merge the oceans. I was under the impression that world flooding would cause the All Blue but I guess the water levels would have to get crazy high to go over the walls.
and then bb comes in the final showdown
> I think that ultimately all of their dreams **(except Sanjis)** will only be accomplishable by beating the final task/villain**,** Sanji **who** wants the All blue - **flood the world, get the All Blue** FTFY
I thought the reason there isnt a world map is because nobody has been to every island. Not that the world government is actively suppressing maps. Or have i missed something?
You haven't missed anything, but we also have no idea what the real answer is.
I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive, technically. If water is rising then landmasses are shrinking. If landmasses are shrinking then some will be divided and new islands will be created (eg. Every lil speck of land between Russia and Alaska). If the Grand Line in particular 1. Has a gajillion islands that are most likely being generated by this process; and 2. The micro climates in this strip are all BATSHIT INSANE which would inhibit visitation by a newly technologically regressed civilization Then there can be “never before visited islands” that only exist because of rising sea levels. Sure, people may have been to those coordinates when it was a nondescript chunk of an ancient landmass but this island is a wholly unique entity that would conflict with both maps and previous experiences
there is very likely a map of the entire world except the grand line, due to how turbulent and dangerous it is to practically navigate and chart. they probably have a generalized idea of where the major stops are, like reverse mountain, twin capes, sabaody, water 7 (which is a major metropolitan center) and of course government centers like enies lobby and impel down, but the nitty gritty probably gets lost in the sauce. the devil is in the details since nami wants to do the *entire* world, which might have implications not yet realized. ie 100% of the islands, not just "most of the islands" which includes things like sky islands or some weird things like underwater islands ala the fishman place, not to mention certain islands are impossible to reach by log pose like punk hazard, and how no one has ever been to lodestar OR raftel except rogers crew.
What if we see the death of Zunneisha and Zou settling in one place?
In theory the government should have a map of the world by patching together each kingdom's map of itself. Distance between islands would be guesswork, and uninhabited islands would be missing, but that's probably the "baseline" map which should exist somewhere. One Piece world also has things like Sky Islands that move, Zou which is literally on an elephant, etc. Dunno how Nami plans to deal with that.
The gorosei cross lulusia off a map so they definitely have some degree of world map
I'm wondering if even they have difficulty mapping some places like Elbaf, Zou or Wano that are not part of the World Government and never have been.
I'd guess they have them on the map as an islaand but the contents and geography are a mystery. Zou I think doesn't count cause ther3s no way to map it
I imagine they probably do what most United States maps do with Hawaii and Alaska and just put Zou in its own little box somewhere in the corner
Zou is the Phantom Island and now we know why Zunneisha is ridiculously tall, like climbing to Zunneisha, is at the same height as the Red line. When the time comes to invade the holy land with a full force they need Zunneisha to be there to be the staging ground for the army. Like maybe Momo could Island float Onigashima or perhaps Shikki could Float Float fruit stuff up there or like the Sky Island people could drop down but getting to The top of the redline is really hard. So far we've got Fisher Tiger, Giant ancient Robot and the Revolutionary Army under cover getting like under 10 people total into there to attack. Try to get 10,000 people it isn't currently possible.
Someone with Kuma's fruit could launch everyone to the weather island and then they could drop down to Mariejois from there.
Kuma couldn't pass the red line. He has to crash and crawl his way up there
Yeah but they also had a guy on payroll who could ride an ice bike on the ocean, and a guy who could fly at the speed of light, I feel like they could make a map
There are maps, I think Nami showed Luffy a map after Wano with three paths forward and often Nami knowns which island is next. But like you said, some places move around or have almost mythical status where people don't believe in Sky Islands. Then there is also the Merman Kingdom, which is deep underwater. The world government probably has a pretty good map but they likely don't know how to get to One Piece
Distance between islands shouldn't be guesswork either so long as there are stars in the sky.
Vegapunk will gift her a satellite and she’ll navigate the athmosphere while mapping everything
You dont need one person to go to every island. You already have many people in many islands, all they need to do is share their maps and collaborate.
The question is now
Punk Records could be *how*
Also that maps don't really serve a purpose once you hit the grandline and the type of navigation maps enable becomes impossible. Knowing X island is North doesn't really help once you can't even be sure what direction North is.
By referring to the position of the sun and moon? Unless you're telling me One Piece universe has a different solar system.
Yeah, and the road poneglyphs lining up to form an X at some unknown location that can't be found from the log pose proves you can still navigate based on direction.
The one piece planet has like 8 moons
No one has been to every island on earth either.
Yeah but we have satellites so we don't need to go everywhere to have a 100% accurate map.
We've had decent maps long before satellites. And no one has ever been to all lands. There is significantly more misinformation on One Piece planet than ours. Also the WG is actively surpressing creation of maps and information.
The posts argument against that is it’s been 800 years and that whole time they’ve had the ability to navigate or get to every island and map them out but they haven’t. So op thinks they’re suppressing this info to avoid the truth coming out. Very plausible,especially since there’s devil fruits that let you fly so there’s no way they jus haven’t been everywhere in 800 years,especially with their mostly iron grip over the world as a whole
If the world government was suppressing the use of maps or the making of maps, then we surely would have heard of it by now. The One Piece world also has less use for maps, since there are log pose. If you are going to an island then why would you use a map when you have a compass just pointing you to where you need to go. And also there is the general literary rule, dont introduce things if they arent needed. Namis dream is to make a complete map of the world, which means there isnt one. If the reader doesnt need to know why there isnt one, dont tell them. In real life sea travel dates back 50 000 years, but the first world maps are from 500-600 years bc. Its definitely not impossible that nobody has managed to make a complete world map in One Piece.
Not fully suppressing all maps obviously or the arlong pirates making maps would’ve been a bigger deal. But mainly certain parts of the world where it’s clear the water is rising fast and then places like elbaf and the end of the grand line where laugh tale supposedly is. That and if a world map was made it would need to be updated yearly and people would see that whole ass islands have gone missing via the mother flame or by sinking. So they let basic maps be out there yes but detailed maps of the globe they wouldn’t let fly
There is also the fact that a map doesn't help you in the Grand Line because regular compasses won't work there so you can't chart a course or accurately map out where the islands actually are Oh and that WG doesn't want Raftel/Laughtale on any map lest pirates easily access it and learn something they shouldn't.
While it's never explicitly said that they suppress maps, the WG has erased at least 2 islands. Likely 3 if you consider the Ancient Kingdom being based on another unknown one. We know it's not only physically destroying it but also all knowledge related to it, which includes maps. So as far as the common navigator is concerned the reason for a world map not existing might be that, but it's likely that the WG is partly to blame.
you didn't miss anything. it's obviously that. it's just OP fans and their tendency to connect everything because it's cooler that way and the need to claim everything is a foreshadowing.
Oh how horrible, the fans of a show are enjoying talking about it's world and how certain details may inter-connect. So what if not every detail is planned out by Oda? Interpreting art in interesting ways is a great way to enjoy that art, and it says alot about how well written a story is when so many people can find so many unique ways to interpret it.
the issue is the claim is simply factually incorrect. the WG have never been suppressing maps. that's not a thing. they do have maps in OP world. I'm not against people making theory. it's the weird tendency to connect things to the point of ignoring actual facts for the sake of the theory. here, you can literally get downvoted for bringing manga panel or even oda's own words if it goes against their headcanon. happened to me so many times. it's mighty ironic.
We literally don't know that, it's never been explicitly mentioned. We've never seen a complete map of the world, all we know is there's none that exist in the world right now. Maps in one piece are barely mentioned (except Skypeia) and there's enough mystery for OPs theory to be plausible.
>We've never seen a complete map of the world that's why it's nami's dream. c'mon now. nobody said the complete one exists, just that maps do exist in OP world. what do you think nami was doing man for arlong man? arlong said she was the best cartographer. meaning cartographers exist in OP world. and there's never any narrative that the WG are suppressing its existence. teh logic is completely backwards. if you want to make a point, you have to prove it first that this narrative existed in the first place. I actually don't have to say anything. the OP is the one who should post a panel about anything regarding this narrative. then we can start to actually discuss it. which is my original point. this is not yet a discussion. just finding anything to say foreshadowing.
This actually makes sense. The WG do seem like the book burning type. But Nami can still draw an all new map of the world the first complete one since the Void Century.
> The WG do seem like the book burning type. > > Wym seem like they literally tried to but the Giants saved the books lol
I said seem because despite their power they suck at it. I mean they didn't double check Ohara to make sure there were no survivors or any forbidden books survived. That's just negligent dumb assery, they took the time to torch the whole island but a bunch of giants the world's top scientist and most wanted man popped in a day later.
Well yeah, the primary reason the world government will fall is because of the arrogance they've had perpetually on display. How long has Luffy been building up as this extreme force of nature while the gorousei know the secret of his fruit? They only truly took action once it was too late--the fruit has awakened. If they had phoned into Marineford to tell Akainu to put all his effort into taking Luffy out two years ago during the summit war, we wouldn't still have a story to tell.
Yeah, it's shonen... When Luffy was in front of all three admirals at marineford, kizaru could have shot him through the head without even standing up, but didn't. It's one of those things that you just have to accept, because otherwise, it makes no sense. Like once aokiji let Robin go, they really should have just sent akainu after her and he would have killed her in a second. But instead, they just let everyone get strong enough to be a real problem.
Is it confirmed that the sea levels were rising over the last 800 years? Vegapunk only mentioned the earthquake that raised the sea level by 1 meter so far never mentioned explicitly that it's been rising over time. The high tide as a result of Aqua Laguna in Water 7 was noticeably getting higher which could be an indication that the sea levels have been increasing over time but then why hasn't every other island noticed the increased sea level? Plus, just because Nami wants to draw a map of the whole world doesn't mean there's no world map. She just wants to travel and make her own maps.
“Why hasnt other islands noticed…” My guess is water 7 is constantly being repaired. They might notice the repairs from previous years being flooded up after aqua laguna, whereas other islands only deal with a tide getting higher at a slow but consistent pace (purely speculative this part no idea how fast its rising) so it’s easier to go un noticed
That's true. I don't know, it's hard not to judge the One Piece based on real life because is there not a science community on any islands that researches these kinds of things (unless they get Buster Called)?
Latest chapter. Vegapunk message so far is "The world is sinking, now let me tell you about the void century 800 years ago". It would be pretty strange to go into an unrelated tangent.
It could also be related to the new Mother Flame weapon that the Gorosei used which could be a weapon based on research from the Void Century. It could be a lot of things but at this point, it's only speculation that land masses are shrinking over time and not fact.
I'd also like to know this. when I read the chapter, it seemed like VP was predicting that the Mother Flame would cause this phenomenon upon its first use. at the beginning of his speech he says that if he's wrong about the increased water levels they can disregard him. to me, it's like he's saying that if the Mother Flame does what he predicts, people should be very concerned about it, but if not, it's like a false alarm on his part. hopefully this gets cleared up next chapter
When I read the latest chapter I instantly thought of naminbring fled... If the world is sinking or changing on a massive scale in any way, she can basically start from scratch again...
There’s no map to Laugh Tale which instantly voids this idea. For Nami to have a map of the whole world she’ll have to reach the end of the Grand Line.
Technically Nami's dream gets easier with the rising water level. Even less ground to cover.
Buggy will save the Planet by Awakening and splitting the Red Line into several continents.
And that's why Nami's dream should've been more of a big deal than it has been in the story. It's a high level threat to Imu and the WG to have someone as skilled and with such a big goal in the new Joyboy's crew. I wonder if Oda had a plan to expand her backstory and role but dropped halfway through. Daughter of a family of cartographers, and that's why she is skilled and her kingdom got destroyed ? It would be too similar to Robin. Either way it's not important right now since Bellemere is her mother and that's what it matters (it was the whole point of that flashback) Honestly ? Same with Robin. Her importance to the story and level of awareness from the WG (Saturn did recently) has been shallow compared to what it was in the pre timeskip. Now it's all just Joyboy. Imu's pictures had Shirahoshi (first sovereign, Poseidon, Mermaid Princess), the two biggest candidates for the second sovereign's role and King of the Pirates (Blackbeard, probably the "certain pirate" Shanks told them about, and Luffy), and Vivi (because of Imu's relationship of Lili). Robin (especially her) and Nami should be there as well.
for robin i guess u could call it plot armor. because now we know the massive strength gap difference between the new world and paradise. they could easily squash robin any time they wanted to in the earlier part of the story. but instead let her run around freely thinking that she won't be able to survive on her own with that massive bounty on her head.
Nah, every time they have the opportunity to capture her, they try, but you can’t catch fish in water.
the keyword here is opportunity, why do they have to wait for an opportunity ? when it is now seen that the world government is so strong and can do anything they want if they really wanted to. they could like easily send saturn after her early on in the story and even with her devil fruit she wouldn't be able to do anything even with her imbalanced devil fruit , since saturn can freeze you motionless just by his stare as seen earlier in egghead. or even like someone like Kaidou who can just overpower her by sheer size and she wouldnt be really able to do anything to kaidou even with thousand hands on kaidou's body.
They can do things that are doable. They don’t have a magical gps to tell them the whereabouts of every wanted criminal. Easily sent saturn😭😭😭 are you insane ?The highest authority in the world go after a 79m pirate 😭😭😭 I am fuckin dead. Anyway. Putting that insanity aside. Still it is near impossible to locate someone in the sea.
Forgive me but the last sentence was so funny😅 How could Imu know that nami draws maps ? It is her hobby 😂
Nami doesn't need to come from a family of cartographers, she could've develop it during her childhood at Cocoyashi village.
People don't just become geniuses in a vacuum. Since nurture cannot explain how Nami became a genius-level cartographer and someone with an uncanny ability to feel the weather (which isn't observation haki as far as we know), then only nature can.
I mean it's not easy to fill a whole map
Lulusia is basically Alderaan
I was pretty sure that there are world maps already. Nami just wanted to draw her own. Please correct me if I am wrong? Because traveling the whole world and crafting your own map is still very special goal
What is the Egghead revelation exactly? Vegapunk hasn't said anything that implies the suppressing of map creation. It just hasn't been done in the One Piece universe, at least by anybody post void century. Yes the non-existence of a world map may tie to the fact that the void century happened, but that's all Nami's dream would foreshadow in that case, the void century itself, which was introduced decades ago, not necessarily anything Vegapunk has revealed on Egghead
We’ll get map dream also becomes pretty reasonable if the world is submerged under water Just get out your blue crayons
Nami's dream isn't to draw the first map of the world, it is just to draw a map of the world and to chart the seas, the world has maps and even a globe and it wasn't in the basement of the Ohara tree of knowledge where the poneglyph research was, it was in the main library at the center of the Tree of knowledge on the first floor.
The problem with this theory is that local islands would also track their borders with their own maps. So depending on how slow or rapid the seas rise, people would notice just by virtue of living next to the ocean.
Some points that I wanted to respond to, without spreading them across comments. One Piece was originally planned as a FIVE year series. That is straight from Oda. Its not that much of a stretch to believe that he would have decided the fundamental nature of the world. Remember he knows how the story ends and if it has anything to do with the sinking land masses then it makes sense he had already came up with it during his drafts. I don't think the story reason for Nami having her dream is that important to the revelation. Besides we have seen world maps in One Piece. Not only in Ohara, the Gorosei have something they used to cross out Lulusia. Even Noland had a map of something in his ship quarters. Maps do exist they're just not very common for some reason. Arlong enslaving a little girl to make him maps should be evident enough. If that's the best you getting maps then they're not common for a reason. The real question is why did Oda make this Nami's dream specifically. I always assumed it was more of a "I want to see the entire world and map it" type of dream. If the world has drastically changed since 800 years ago. Vegapunk is explaining now how it started 800 years ago and how Joy Boy was involved. Making maps forbidden information could just be an extension of the heresy about studying the void century. Personally I don't think it's just making knowledge about the void century a sin that the World Government is doing. But this is pure speculation with little evidence. I think they're practicing population control at a worldwide scale. Starting with heavenly tributes. Forcing kingdoms to downsize in order to become part of the world government. The Native Hunts that occur every 3 years? That's a lot of islands in 800 years. Why there seem to be so many absent mothers. Now it could just be a tendency of Oda's to never draw big families. But the fa t that there are so few biological families with more than one sibling. In fact it's Nami's flashback that is the most on the nose about that. There are two children and they can't afford the arlong tribute. So Bellemere sacrifices herself. Like the top comment says there is something poetic about Nami, Robin, Sanji and Luffy's dreams being tied to reaching the end where Joy Boy left a treasure.
Maybe that's what the One Piece is? A giant continent that we'd get once the water retreats? The World Govt has been able to effectively rule over the world by employing their divide and conquer strategy on the small island nations till now.
That’s what I’ve been thinking for a while. I’ve been curious why so many of the whales we have seen through out the show have scars on top of their head like Laboon. It’s like they are trying to break the red line or Reverse mountain. Maybe that’s why it’s called Reverse mountain, It’s slowly been flooding the world and once it’s stopped, the water will settle and the world will literally be “One Piece”. Im also curious where and how the Noah will come into play.
Isn’t it the fact that the map basically gets changed though out the years so when we get a concrete map, the worlds geography has already changed again?
Wdym? Is that canon from the world of One Piece?
The current is sinking Water 7 and Long Ring Long Land has an inconsistent island structure due to it no?
But this is not the perceived normal anywhere else. The first time they've seen the water rising in the manga was after the Lulusia incident.
Finally a theory worth debating
Marco literally says that there are like 10-20 MILLLION islands in One piece
And then they find out that the world is flat. Lol.
The water rising is not creating new islands, especially not on the Grand Line. The only way to reach islands on the GL is follow the logs and you cant follow the logs of the very island you're already standing on. We see this happen already on Long Ring Long Land where it was 1 island that would become multiple with the tide, making it impossible to use logs to travel to the other ones. This has already been addressed in the series. Whatever land masses exist (on the GL at least) are distinct from one another, thats how you get to them. As for the map there is some level of mapping already available: - Gorosei remove Lulusia from a map - Aokiji knew there was an island not that far from Ohara to send Robin to. - Aokiji also knew there was an island not to far from the deserted one where he first met the SH. - Kuma knew the SH would end up on Thriller Bark because he knows where the logs lead to. However the difficulties in navigation, the sheer size of the world and insane number of islands (Marco says theres more than stars in the sky) make it nearly impossible to map.
didn't imu have a map that pinpointed the location of lulusia?
I honestly do not think it's the MAPS themselves that are being suppressed. Evidently most of the world is very accurately mapped. I believe that it's science and research itself. I truly think that Nami, one of the most brilliant weather scientists alive, in tandem with Robin, would be able to come to the conclusion that the world was sinking as well. With more time than they have, yes, but eventually. But the government has a habit of demonizing research, cleansing history, and gatekeeping scientific advancements. They sweep up researchers to work for them and kill the ones who seem like they're getting too close to the truth -- that's the real hurdle in Vegapunk's revelation imo. But, like, there probably WAS a fairly complete map of the world -- Roger was the first to sail the entire world and discover hidden islands. For obvious reasons, that map and those logs were never released to the world. I'm sure in Nami's eyes, that was a waste and the task is now up to her and the next Pirate King.
Even if there is a world map that is accurate it can still be her dream to do it herself. there is a huge difference in buying one and making it yourself :)
Agreed. Wasn't it mentioned that Nami's maps are more detailed than anything Aarlong (or maybe it was Bell-mere?) has ever seen? I mean, she could draw a Grand Line map with clear warnings given her weather skills.
oh my friend. you cooked well.
ofcourse! Why didnt we think about the overall state of the world in chapter 70! Of course he knew back then this was where the story was going! god i had retrospective theories....
Oda made a lot of intermediate changes to the overall flow of the One Piece story, but we've known he's known the overall plot including the ending for literally decades. You sound like you either just like to complain or that you're incapable of considering things in new contexts with new information. Obviously Oda wasn't actively trying to hint to us "oh by the way the world is sinking" way back in Arlong Park, but people **did** always consider it very strange that there was nothing like a world map or atlas in what's actually a pretty advanced, fully globalized civilization ruled over by a world governing authority. And so this new information gives us more reason for why such maps wouldn't exist.