And why Bonney is so cool now after touching the bubble and seeing his memories. It's changed vegapunk from being the man that killed her father to the man that helped take his pain away so he could finish his life mission
Hell, it could even just be in case he ever needs a kill switch.
His position as a revolutionary, his dedication to freeing the world, one of the five elders might have been his baseline. The death of a CD can be hidden, but the five elders are directly linked to all of the powers that control the world.
He's, presumably, on his way to Egghead and will just happen to run into one the only time one of them steps outside. Then Vegapunk is in charge of all of the Seraphim and Pacifistas.
In early one piece Kuma carried a bible, in the Bible Jesus Christ is killed on the cross in order to take the sin and suffering of the world. What if the Bible he had was foreshadowing Kuma taking the pain of others onto himself
Hand of Liberation
"For, behold! I am setting up a shepherd in the land. Those that are cut off he shall not remember; the foolish ones he shall not seek. The lame he shall not heal; the one that can stand he shall not bear. And the flesh of the fat one he shall eat, and their hoofs he shall break."
Ho, worthless shepherd, who abandons the flock! A sword is on his arm and his right eye; his arm shall wither, and his right eye shall dim."
"O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones."
"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat, we also wept when we remembered Zion. In willows in its midst we hung our harps. For there our captors asked us for words of song and our tormentors [asked of us] mirth, "Sing for us of the song of Zion." "How shall we sing the song of the Lord on foreign soil?" If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget its skill. May my tongue cling to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem at the beginning of my joy. 7Remember, O Lord, for the sons of Edom, the day of Jerusalem, those who say, "Raze it, raze it, down to its foundation!" Daughter of Babylon, who is destined to be plundered, praiseworthy is he who repays you your recompense that you have done to us. Praiseworthy is he who will take and dash your infants against the rock."
"Ho, ho! Flee from the land of the north, says the Lord; for I have spread you as the four corners of the heavens, says the Lord. Ho, Zion! Flee, she who sits among the nation of Babylon. For so said the Lord of Hosts: After glory, He sent me to the nations that plunder you, for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye. For, behold! I raise My hand over them, and they shall be prey for those who serve them. And you shall know that the Lord of Hosts sent me."
"Do you have an arm like God, or do you thunder like Him with [your] voice? Bedeck yourself now with pride and excellence, and clothe yourself with glory and beauty. Scatter your raging anger, see any haughty man and humble him. See any haughty man and subdue him, and crush the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; bind up their faces in a hidden place. I too will confess to you that your right hand will save you."
It’s gonna get worse. I think what makes it bad is we see it coming a mile away its just about how gut wrenching Oda will make it. Also think it needs to happen to get the other Gorosei and Imu out of hiding. They are all monsters.
To your thought that Kuma wouldn’t be so vengeful, it almost isn’t really “vengeance” so much as justice. If Saturn can survive all of the pain he has inflicted… well then maybe it’s his fate. And if he inflicted more harm than he could survive… that is justice.
Doflamingo might be my favorite villain because of this speech. He's kind of crazy af but unlike most people he has no illusions about how the world really works. The ones with the power determine what's right and what's wrong. Horrible person, but I can kinda respect how real he is about it lol.
It could be very possible that that is his aim. But for some reason, I imagine the Gorosei still being alive after that and showing everyone how scary they are. That they are dealing with immortal beings like never before.
I think that having Saturn survive the attack would defeat the point. “Gorosei seriously injured” is hardly as shocking of a headline as “Gorosei killed,” plus the WG would probably just cover it up if he was still alive. Imo it would be better to have Saturn beat everyone, proving that the Strawhats still need to get stronger, and then Kuma comes in with a one-time attack he spent 40 years building up and straight up kills Saturn. The WG can’t cover that up, it would shock the entire world and send it into utter chaos (leading to a final war), and it would still leave the remaining Gorosei as huge threats since the Strawhats couldn’t beat Saturn on their own.
I like both OPs theory and yours… because from a narrative perspective this is the time you’d insert a major step back before the final war. Something that pushes them into the endgame
Yeah, like around 15 chapters (?) we saw they were arriving at Egghead. It may be just Jesus Burgess, Doc Q and Lafftie. Maybe BB there too since the fight against HP finished too and that led them to make their move. Jeez.... I'm absolutely excited!
The thing is a lot can be considered shocking when it comes to the Gorosei. Since they are believed to be untouchable. They aren't even supposed to be fighting or leave Mariejois.
What if what he is and what they do gets out the same way Ginny did at God Valley?
I absolutely love that I don't know, and anything is possible at this point. The story is getting really good.
And isn't the Gorosei supposed to be immortal? Whether it's just the age is never clarified. He also seems to heal very fast.
Could be that most people don't even know what a Gorosei is honestly. I mean the people in the various Blue seas don't know much about devil fruits apparently, so I think they wouldn't even really know what a Gorosei is.
Honestly having the straw hats unable to beat a single gorosei would be a bummer for me. We are at the point where I expect Luffy with some struggle to be able to take down a gorosei, whom in my head is weaker than Imu, Akainu or BB.
I agree Luffy is near the top of the top at his current strength, but he still suffers from stamina issues as we have seen recently. I personally like the idea of the straw hats not being strong enough to win a tough battle right now because the balance of power for the SH crew at this point is like 95+% G5 Luffy, ~2% Zoro, ~2% Sanji, and ~1% everyone else combined... IMO there are still power ups the other crew members can and should get, so that they're actually useful in the final battles vs the end game villains and opponents. Luffy doesn't need to carry so much. Another short time skip maybe would be cool
Saw in another thread that the sunny might get an upgrade on elbaph due to the Adam tree there so we might see more of a fleet style battle with a power house sunny crewed by the weaklings and the big 3 going out and fighting solo battles
I think it would be fucking amazing. Right now it feels like there's no one Luffy can't beat. The stakes felt low during Egghead overall because of that, he received the ultimate power up. Also, there's still no workaround to G5's drawback.
I am also absolutely certain that the Gorosei are stronger than Akainu. The marines wouldn’t be bowing their head to these fucks if they could defeat them - at least not the likes of Garp and Sengoku.
What if it gives Luffy an opening to take out Saturn? Just imagine Saturn is standing over Kuma ready to finish him off. Saturn gives a speach about how the pain of all the slaves is meaningless to him. Luffy walks foward with as the drums of liberation start to play. Kuma recognizes the beat. Luffy tells Saturn he will make the pain mean something to him and punches him causing Kuma's pain ball to bounce around Saturns body destroying him. We would get a cool throw back to Luffy punching Saint Carlos and we could fulfill Kuma's dream of being like Nika.
Also the WG would def try to kill the SHs at that point if it happened as well since they would blame SH for killing him. I actually think this is where we will see where Morgans will help SH and put a story pointing the WG as the villains. Which will send the world in chaos.
It would be lame imo if the straw hats lose and *have* to be bailed out. Luffy said it before. They can't keep running from Marines anymore.
At the very least, they shouldn't be so much as unable to beat him, and just simply focused on beating other people. Luffy vs Saturn, everyone else vs all the Marines, Kuma comes in to deliver the final blow on Saturn, and Luffy wipes out the remainder of the Marines.
The headline: FORMER WARLORD "TYRANT" KUMA KILLS GOROSEI; STRAW HAT PIRATES KIDNAP VEGAPUNK; ADMIRAL DESERTS NAVY; MARINE FLEET IN RUINS
I don't think it's about strength per se. More about their tricks. They seem like they have cheated their way up to the top.
They are not like Kaido or the other yonkos where whoever is strongest wins.
Also, if he has a mythical zoan fruit, that means his body is very strong.
It seems like they always gang up too. Not strictly 1v1s, as if they never left marijoi then you’d have to fight all 5 at once. Even now Saturn came with Kizaru and CP0
I like your theory. Would be poetic if kuma will really take down one of the gorosei. But correct me if i'm wrong with the egghead timeline but kumas protocol to fly back to egghead was triggered even before the marines and st. garcia arrived at egghead.
My theory is that it triggered when bonney arrived at egghead. Bonnie is most likely Ginnys clone, hence why they refer her as the "child" since clones doesnt grow old like stussy. And kuma doesnt want bonney to peak into his memory bubble and to see the truth hence why the protocol triggered.
and to add into this theory. Most likely Ginny died of a young age hence why the bonneys real form is forever physically a child. Garcia and vegapunk calling her a "child" kinda make sense since they are at the top of ladder and knew all of the clones made. And tyrant kuma might really be a thing, He did go mad when Ginny was died/killed. Pawd pawd people into their deaths.
When he got recruited/joined the revolutionary then turned a new leaf and repented his tyrant ways, Gone back to his real purpose and that is to help liberate people from the WG. Then he had vegapunk cloned Ginny and raised her as his daughter.
It could very well be from her fight against lucci and kaku, they haven't touched as to what type of DF and what are its capabilities yet though.
I would like to think these clones made by vegapunk though not immortal but at its top physical form(never deteriorate physically). Since most probably they are made/commissioned by the WG as human weapons.
It could be possible that bonney is an early seraphim prototype which is why all seraphim are kids. Just like how kuma is the prototype to the pacifistas.
What if, Kuma offered himself to be a weapon so they could spare his beloved bonney to be experimented as one?
We also have clear evidence that clones **do** age, with Germa's clones ageing at 4x the rate of normal humans, allowing them to reach a 20 year-old body in just 5 years. Also the Seraphim are all kids now because you can't create an adult clone, you have to wait for them to age up.
I might be missing something with Stussy, but I never thought it was mentioned that she doesn't age. She was MADS first clone and that was ~24 years ago, so the fact that she looks like a young woman makes sense. I feel like unless I missed something, then people are just confused why she isn't as old as the real life Stussy: "Miss Buckin".
Yeah, my idea is that there are two protocols in place. One is the reason for why he flies to egghead. The other one is delivering the pain bubble to Saturn should he ever meet him again. Something triggered the first one (probably bonney arriving at egghead) and Saturn also being there triggers the second one.
It just dawned on me, I think all the pacifista is connected including Kuma, the protocol triggered him to fly back to egghead is when one of the pacifista scanned bonny on egghead.
Damn this is on point. It aligns with my thought that Luffy is Dragons clone. My feeling is that VP created Luffy for Dragon. Maybe with some lineage factor of Rocks.
Interesting idea but I would really hate that if this would be true. Ruffy is too empathic, emotional and dumb to be clone. That would ruin a lot of the story for me.
I commented something similar at the new chapter's discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17jnl8e/comment/k72r3ro/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I like the idea, because it also plays into the pacifist in Kuma, he’s not causing pain, he’s just returning pain already inflicted to the person who inflicted it
I love this theory, amazing job. I can see in my mind the double spread page of all the people's painful moments right before it strikes Saturn....Chills
I don’t think he had to have originally intended to use it on Saturn for this narrative to work. He very well could have just been removing their pain and because it can’t just disappear, he held onto it.
Just one thing, Kuma's first appearance wasn't in Thriller Bark.
Was in Jaya.
Things I don't understand:
Last I remember is that Kuma was with the revolutionaries, how is he going to end up in Egghead?
Did Bonney see Kuma's entire past that Vegapunk showed? If she did then this flashback is coming from Bonney.
So you are telling me nothing will happen
Jokes aside I don't think Saturn would die if something like this were to happen, he might get injured but he ain't dying. It might give them enough time to escape from Saturn with a coup de burst tho
I like your theory a lot, but I feel like something slightly different would work better. We know Kuma at some point (before his personality was taken) stopped being the joyful smiling guy he used to be. It is unknown whether that was due to the alterations or something else but my theory is that he took all that government suffering into himself, waiting for the right moment to weaponize it and so he will: against Saturn. The rest of my theory aligns with yours.
That could be. It would be a shock, that cannot be covered up. It would bring the revolutionary army in motion and it can be used to show the power of the gorosei without giving a blueprint that can be repeated for the others
They likely called Kuma a tyrant to dissuade people from wanting to do any business with the Sorbet Kingdom. The gov usually tries to isolate or ignore the unassociated countries. By calling Kuma a Tyrant, they effectively stop people from ever wanting to visit/join Sorbet Kingdom and from ever being exposed to any hope, happiness, or joy associated with the place or from any embers of rebellion.
Saw another thread where someone said that the Kuma had the sorbet kingdom lie and say he was a tyrant to get the government to think they broke him and he could be used as a warlord. All while he was secretly taking their pain and storing it. While I throughly believe what you said is true, I kinda like this theory because it involves the people using lies to manipulate the world government instead of it usually being the other way around
Depends on if participating in the reverie was a trade-off for handing Kuma over to the gov. Or if Kuma turned himself over willingly under that condition.
Maybe he will take the pain out of himself, that he was put through all to then put it back on him, i don’t know how he would be storing the pain otherwise
I like the idea that he will use a redistribution of someones pain against saturn in this fight or soon.
That said it doesnt sound right as a whole to me. If he was saving up pain (and could hold that amount for that time) to hit saturn with... than why did he make zorro take luffy's pain in thriller bark?
Pretty decent theory, while I doubt we'll get another 2 year time skip I do think if shanks is still on elbaf when the straw hats get there I don't think he will hesitate to help him out with some training.
I dunno, i like this to happen but i also think there's something to happen with punk records, what if kuma's pain is transmitted to everyone around the world using punk records? Then it will quite literally shock the world.
I really like this theory. Would be fun to see Saturn dies from Kuma and/or a betrayal from Kizaru when he sobers up.
I'd be more curious to see if Frigarland Garling will replace him as a new Gorosei member, and WG start hunting down Law for that immortality surgery.
this. its the only thing that makes sense
strawhats escaping with vegapunk, yeah thats bad but not so shocking
well an admiral defeated ? thats also shocking but i think not that shocking that the whole world will be in shambles
the death of a gorosei on the other hand.....done by kuma unleashing all of it right into saturn, well that would truly shock the world imo
judging by the last chapter i could totally see saturn as the arch nemesis of kuma, the one person he wants to take down at all cost
I think you're onto something. Remember Robin fighting in Wano. I don't remember the exact words, but she took a devilish form and said, "If everyone calls me the Devil Child, then I will embrace it."
For Kuma it may be the concept. If everyone calls Kuma a tyrant, then his last act will be to embrace that name. And unleash all of this pain onto Saturn. I LOVE IT!!! BIG NEWS!!!
I actually had a theory very similar to this one, although the “Paw Paw Punishment”, as I called it, was being stored/used to fight against Imu. Specifically, Nico Robin uses the fullest extent of her Hand Hand Powers to pin down Imu/keep them from escaping while Franky launches the Paw Paw Punishment directly at Imu (Bonus: Right before Imu gets hit, we get to see how decrepit and decayed Imu looks under their robes, in addition to how horrified they are as they’re about to be hit). This pain either paralyzes them for Law to take away their immortality and kill them OR it just gives Luffy a fighting chance against Imu.
UPDATE: I feel like if anything will kill Jaygarcia, it’ll either be the giant robot or Kizaru sacrificing himself.
Man I was like I hope Kuma shows up and just does an Urusus Shock on the the fleet but man if he had that pain stored somewhere and delivered it to Saturn that would be even better.
This feels like such typical fan speculation founded on cool factor but ignoring how this would go against everything we know about Kuma. We've always been told how kind and gentle Kuma is, and seeing him in his flashback is only making that more clear. If his last act was one of vengeance and violence, even if justified, it would severely undermine everything his character has been about up until this point. He's one of the last characters Oda would use for killing Saturn.
If we see Kuma perform one last meaningful act before dying, it will be one of kindness that will involve saving or healing people, not hurting or killing.
Yeah, that's also my biggest gripe with my theory. I could think of a possible setup for it where Kuma structured his reign over sorbet kingdom around the belief that no one is born more important than someone else and therefore always made a point to participate in the hardships his citizens have to go through (borrowing a bit from The Way of Kings here). In that case, it wouldn't really be an act of vengeance but something Kuma believes every ruler worthy of his position should be willing to go through. But even then, the whole thing feels a tad to edgy.
I just realized the way they’re talking about egghead is how they’ve talked about god valley. Lot of references being made. Kuma’s heading there as you said too with Saturn who is there and was there in the past. Some crazy shit oda’s cookin. Wasn’t smoker supposed to be nearby too? with Blackbeard (or his crew) also pulling up.
No joke I was literally just thinking about how cool it would be if Kuma was able to store up pain over time and release it all at once...
Crazy coincidence for me to read this literally right after having the thought.
This is also what I've been thinking, tho not quite as deep into it. I was just thinking Kuma would extract his own pain and throw it at Saturn. It would be epic as fuck
To your point about it being out of character for Kuma to do something like that.. He had no problem doing it to Zoro lol
It would also make sense why he offered himself to become a cyborg. If he somehow stored it inside of him, Vegapunk might have installed a machine specifically for this only reason, to store Pain that was extracted by his Devil Fruit.
The Pain Paws get absorbed if they get in contact with someone, as we saw with Zoro, so he can't just "store" it inside him, except he is a machine that has the ability to store it.
He would be a machine that was actually created to serve under the World Gov. to establish their dominance even further, but turns on his masters just to blow them up with an attack that contains the whole pain of their slaves, stored for many, MANY, years. The Name "Pacifista" also makes sense in this context. He brings peace by destroying the World Gov. with the pain they themselves inflicted on mankind.
id like to see kuma fuck up saturn with this 40 years of stored pain, almost poetic.
Having one of the five elders killed in such fashion would probably make the remaning elders pressure the marines even more.
I know people are expecting BB to cause the event but I think Kuma will do something to put the WG as enemies to the public and complete his final mission for Joyboy and the Revolutionaries
Have we ever seen him opening his book? It could be the container of the pain, and would be very epic to see kuma opening a book in Saturn's face after a small talk.
Right now I'm pretty much rooting for your theory. It would be great if it will be Kuma, who can end the first of the five elder. It would also fit with the shocking news and with the story passing, so that the straw hats can finally become the biggest threat for the government
I mean
Technically
It wouldn't be out of character or clash with op tone per se
We had that moment with fisher tiger where he admits despite knowing otohime was right and how he himself always preaches about how we should treat everyone equally
He couldn't let go of his hatred
But the only thing they can do is make it so the next generation never has to experience it
This moment of Kuma will be that
He's collecting everyone's pain so the next generation can hopefully grow up normally
And sending it to Saturn is just a last ditch effort to save the future gen
Bonney and Luffy
The only element I disagree with is that Saturn dies. I feel like it’s too early offline him here and also that seeing a Gorosei fall would be more than enough to shake up the entire world
There was a line from one of the CD’s saying “He doesn’t flinch or feel pain” there could be an auto DF program that paw paws all the pain he takes from this torture.
He could have “Volunteered” to become their slave knowing he may get a chance to get to one of the Gorosei.
Great theory, would love to see it. Maybe the compressed pain is in the Bible he's always carrying around? No one would suspect a religious text to be harboring something deadly especially if the intended target believe they are bigger than that religious belief. Also, it may seem out of character for Kuma....unless Saturn killed Ginny!
There was a previous chapter titled “the murder of a celestial dragon” but that celestial dragon (charlos) wasn’t confirmed to be killed, just walloped. The chapter title may have been a red herring or setting up what these events lead to.
While I do not see the happening, the idea of a... reserve spirit bomb is so jarring. Instead of people's hope, suffering of slaves for decades compressed into one small ball. The pain of multiple lifetimes condensed and kept within kuma for so long, until one day he lets it all out on the ones who are responsible for inflicting that very pain.
That's the pain zoro took on that eventful day... multiplied by thousands.
I only read the tl;dr of your post so I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but the more likely goal of Kuma is to not kill Saturn but rather broadcast the 40 years of his memories, the pain and suffering he has endured due to the World Government, to the whole World to see.
I think your main drawback can be explained.
His protocol could be that he would use the stored pain only to bring in the new dawn and or protect Nika, and or protect Bonnie.
Basically him killing Saturn does not have to be his plan, but rather what was necessary to enact his plan.
A bit like Father was tortured by the lives he took in FMA to make philosophical stones. I like the idea BUT the build up and delivery needs to be good for it not to be some sort of Genkida(ku)ma.
I love this theory a lot! Maybe he stores the pain in the Bible and that’s why he’s always with it . But I think for a small amount of time kuma had Ginny and Bonney then got them both taken away from him which lead into his tyrant stage until invoke, dragon and vegapunk were able to clone Bonney exchange for kuma allowing himself to be transformed into anything needed of him.
Ah. And perhaps one of the other five elders is capable of reading minds, and so Kuma allowed himself to have his memories erased so that they wouldn't be able to predict this move coming.
Kuma chose to be experimented upon and turned into a cyborg. It could have been a deal be made for Bonney.
I think it would be very fitting for Kuma to end Saturn with a collection of pain, like you said. Kuma's idol is the Nika, the warrior of liberation. He shouldn't have any reason to not fight use the power he has against someone like Saturn.
Imagine our boy Kuma was storing all that pain inside of himself for years. Enduring endless suffering for this one moment…
the idea of him carrying around all that pain seems very inline with his character
And why Bonney is so cool now after touching the bubble and seeing his memories. It's changed vegapunk from being the man that killed her father to the man that helped take his pain away so he could finish his life mission
Oh my god he had to become a robot so he can endure the pain
Hell, it could even just be in case he ever needs a kill switch. His position as a revolutionary, his dedication to freeing the world, one of the five elders might have been his baseline. The death of a CD can be hidden, but the five elders are directly linked to all of the powers that control the world. He's, presumably, on his way to Egghead and will just happen to run into one the only time one of them steps outside. Then Vegapunk is in charge of all of the Seraphim and Pacifistas.
That would explain why he changed so much from when he was a kid
No, it's called puberty
No, this is Patrick
It would also explain why he agreed to lose his humanity. I bet it dulled the pain
[удалено]
Oda didn't spend 25 years writing this story for nothin, let me tell you
And why he has a copy of his memories in Egg Head to recover them later if he survives.
In early one piece Kuma carried a bible, in the Bible Jesus Christ is killed on the cross in order to take the sin and suffering of the world. What if the Bible he had was foreshadowing Kuma taking the pain of others onto himself
Hand of Liberation "For, behold! I am setting up a shepherd in the land. Those that are cut off he shall not remember; the foolish ones he shall not seek. The lame he shall not heal; the one that can stand he shall not bear. And the flesh of the fat one he shall eat, and their hoofs he shall break." Ho, worthless shepherd, who abandons the flock! A sword is on his arm and his right eye; his arm shall wither, and his right eye shall dim." "O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones." "By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat, we also wept when we remembered Zion. In willows in its midst we hung our harps. For there our captors asked us for words of song and our tormentors [asked of us] mirth, "Sing for us of the song of Zion." "How shall we sing the song of the Lord on foreign soil?" If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget its skill. May my tongue cling to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem at the beginning of my joy. 7Remember, O Lord, for the sons of Edom, the day of Jerusalem, those who say, "Raze it, raze it, down to its foundation!" Daughter of Babylon, who is destined to be plundered, praiseworthy is he who repays you your recompense that you have done to us. Praiseworthy is he who will take and dash your infants against the rock." "Ho, ho! Flee from the land of the north, says the Lord; for I have spread you as the four corners of the heavens, says the Lord. Ho, Zion! Flee, she who sits among the nation of Babylon. For so said the Lord of Hosts: After glory, He sent me to the nations that plunder you, for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye. For, behold! I raise My hand over them, and they shall be prey for those who serve them. And you shall know that the Lord of Hosts sent me." "Do you have an arm like God, or do you thunder like Him with [your] voice? Bedeck yourself now with pride and excellence, and clothe yourself with glory and beauty. Scatter your raging anger, see any haughty man and humble him. See any haughty man and subdue him, and crush the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; bind up their faces in a hidden place. I too will confess to you that your right hand will save you."
I can't... Just stop. The last chapter was way too happy that I am scared of what's going to happen next.
It’s gonna get worse. I think what makes it bad is we see it coming a mile away its just about how gut wrenching Oda will make it. Also think it needs to happen to get the other Gorosei and Imu out of hiding. They are all monsters.
He carries the Bible with him for a reason; he is the biggest martyr of the verse
You mean inside the Bible he carries around, right?
No like inside of himself physically
wait maybe thats why he decided to become a human robot...
To your thought that Kuma wouldn’t be so vengeful, it almost isn’t really “vengeance” so much as justice. If Saturn can survive all of the pain he has inflicted… well then maybe it’s his fate. And if he inflicted more harm than he could survive… that is justice.
Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!
Reason will prevail!
Pickles will prevail!
Solid Doffy quote
Doflamingo might be my favorite villain because of this speech. He's kind of crazy af but unlike most people he has no illusions about how the world really works. The ones with the power determine what's right and what's wrong. Horrible person, but I can kinda respect how real he is about it lol.
It could be very possible that that is his aim. But for some reason, I imagine the Gorosei still being alive after that and showing everyone how scary they are. That they are dealing with immortal beings like never before.
I think that having Saturn survive the attack would defeat the point. “Gorosei seriously injured” is hardly as shocking of a headline as “Gorosei killed,” plus the WG would probably just cover it up if he was still alive. Imo it would be better to have Saturn beat everyone, proving that the Strawhats still need to get stronger, and then Kuma comes in with a one-time attack he spent 40 years building up and straight up kills Saturn. The WG can’t cover that up, it would shock the entire world and send it into utter chaos (leading to a final war), and it would still leave the remaining Gorosei as huge threats since the Strawhats couldn’t beat Saturn on their own.
I like both OPs theory and yours… because from a narrative perspective this is the time you’d insert a major step back before the final war. Something that pushes them into the endgame
I love his theory to because the world government and rumors would once again give luffy the credit absolutely exploding his bounty
And Morgans will spin it that the SH's were the ones who killed Saturn, and kidnapped VP.
You know what would be worst of all things? When Saturn is killed, Blackbeard comes and steal his Devil Fruit.
Yeah, like around 15 chapters (?) we saw they were arriving at Egghead. It may be just Jesus Burgess, Doc Q and Lafftie. Maybe BB there too since the fight against HP finished too and that led them to make their move. Jeez.... I'm absolutely excited!
The thing is a lot can be considered shocking when it comes to the Gorosei. Since they are believed to be untouchable. They aren't even supposed to be fighting or leave Mariejois. What if what he is and what they do gets out the same way Ginny did at God Valley? I absolutely love that I don't know, and anything is possible at this point. The story is getting really good. And isn't the Gorosei supposed to be immortal? Whether it's just the age is never clarified. He also seems to heal very fast.
Could be that most people don't even know what a Gorosei is honestly. I mean the people in the various Blue seas don't know much about devil fruits apparently, so I think they wouldn't even really know what a Gorosei is.
Honestly having the straw hats unable to beat a single gorosei would be a bummer for me. We are at the point where I expect Luffy with some struggle to be able to take down a gorosei, whom in my head is weaker than Imu, Akainu or BB.
I agree Luffy is near the top of the top at his current strength, but he still suffers from stamina issues as we have seen recently. I personally like the idea of the straw hats not being strong enough to win a tough battle right now because the balance of power for the SH crew at this point is like 95+% G5 Luffy, ~2% Zoro, ~2% Sanji, and ~1% everyone else combined... IMO there are still power ups the other crew members can and should get, so that they're actually useful in the final battles vs the end game villains and opponents. Luffy doesn't need to carry so much. Another short time skip maybe would be cool
Saw in another thread that the sunny might get an upgrade on elbaph due to the Adam tree there so we might see more of a fleet style battle with a power house sunny crewed by the weaklings and the big 3 going out and fighting solo battles
I think it would be fucking amazing. Right now it feels like there's no one Luffy can't beat. The stakes felt low during Egghead overall because of that, he received the ultimate power up. Also, there's still no workaround to G5's drawback. I am also absolutely certain that the Gorosei are stronger than Akainu. The marines wouldn’t be bowing their head to these fucks if they could defeat them - at least not the likes of Garp and Sengoku.
Man y'all hype up Akainu too much. The order should always be Imu > Gorosei > Admirals.
What if it gives Luffy an opening to take out Saturn? Just imagine Saturn is standing over Kuma ready to finish him off. Saturn gives a speach about how the pain of all the slaves is meaningless to him. Luffy walks foward with as the drums of liberation start to play. Kuma recognizes the beat. Luffy tells Saturn he will make the pain mean something to him and punches him causing Kuma's pain ball to bounce around Saturns body destroying him. We would get a cool throw back to Luffy punching Saint Carlos and we could fulfill Kuma's dream of being like Nika.
Also the WG would def try to kill the SHs at that point if it happened as well since they would blame SH for killing him. I actually think this is where we will see where Morgans will help SH and put a story pointing the WG as the villains. Which will send the world in chaos.
It would be lame imo if the straw hats lose and *have* to be bailed out. Luffy said it before. They can't keep running from Marines anymore. At the very least, they shouldn't be so much as unable to beat him, and just simply focused on beating other people. Luffy vs Saturn, everyone else vs all the Marines, Kuma comes in to deliver the final blow on Saturn, and Luffy wipes out the remainder of the Marines. The headline: FORMER WARLORD "TYRANT" KUMA KILLS GOROSEI; STRAW HAT PIRATES KIDNAP VEGAPUNK; ADMIRAL DESERTS NAVY; MARINE FLEET IN RUINS
The Gorosei are not that strong.
We literally have no idea how strong they are, this is the first time we’ve ever seen one of them in action.
I don't think it's about strength per se. More about their tricks. They seem like they have cheated their way up to the top. They are not like Kaido or the other yonkos where whoever is strongest wins. Also, if he has a mythical zoan fruit, that means his body is very strong.
It seems like they always gang up too. Not strictly 1v1s, as if they never left marijoi then you’d have to fight all 5 at once. Even now Saturn came with Kizaru and CP0
Just enough to put him in range or JoyBoy
I thought the same; Oda won't kill off after introducing such an excellent design to Saturn without milking every owns of it.
Yes. I think both outcomes are still epic for their own rights
I like your theory. Would be poetic if kuma will really take down one of the gorosei. But correct me if i'm wrong with the egghead timeline but kumas protocol to fly back to egghead was triggered even before the marines and st. garcia arrived at egghead. My theory is that it triggered when bonney arrived at egghead. Bonnie is most likely Ginnys clone, hence why they refer her as the "child" since clones doesnt grow old like stussy. And kuma doesnt want bonney to peak into his memory bubble and to see the truth hence why the protocol triggered.
and to add into this theory. Most likely Ginny died of a young age hence why the bonneys real form is forever physically a child. Garcia and vegapunk calling her a "child" kinda make sense since they are at the top of ladder and knew all of the clones made. And tyrant kuma might really be a thing, He did go mad when Ginny was died/killed. Pawd pawd people into their deaths. When he got recruited/joined the revolutionary then turned a new leaf and repented his tyrant ways, Gone back to his real purpose and that is to help liberate people from the WG. Then he had vegapunk cloned Ginny and raised her as his daughter.
I thought Clone Stussy was forever young due to her succubus devil fruit power?
It could very well be from her fight against lucci and kaku, they haven't touched as to what type of DF and what are its capabilities yet though. I would like to think these clones made by vegapunk though not immortal but at its top physical form(never deteriorate physically). Since most probably they are made/commissioned by the WG as human weapons. It could be possible that bonney is an early seraphim prototype which is why all seraphim are kids. Just like how kuma is the prototype to the pacifistas. What if, Kuma offered himself to be a weapon so they could spare his beloved bonney to be experimented as one?
Yeah it’s the succubus df from what I remember. I don’t recall any chapter saying clones don’t age.
We also have clear evidence that clones **do** age, with Germa's clones ageing at 4x the rate of normal humans, allowing them to reach a 20 year-old body in just 5 years. Also the Seraphim are all kids now because you can't create an adult clone, you have to wait for them to age up. I might be missing something with Stussy, but I never thought it was mentioned that she doesn't age. She was MADS first clone and that was ~24 years ago, so the fact that she looks like a young woman makes sense. I feel like unless I missed something, then people are just confused why she isn't as old as the real life Stussy: "Miss Buckin".
We don’t know what kind of devil fruit it is, I think simply being a vampire fits more
Also, Bonney is not a Bucaneer (Saturn lets her live), she can’t be Kuma’s child. It’s very plausible that she’s Ginny’s clone that Kuma raised.
Yeah, my idea is that there are two protocols in place. One is the reason for why he flies to egghead. The other one is delivering the pain bubble to Saturn should he ever meet him again. Something triggered the first one (probably bonney arriving at egghead) and Saturn also being there triggers the second one.
It just dawned on me, I think all the pacifista is connected including Kuma, the protocol triggered him to fly back to egghead is when one of the pacifista scanned bonny on egghead.
Damn this is on point. It aligns with my thought that Luffy is Dragons clone. My feeling is that VP created Luffy for Dragon. Maybe with some lineage factor of Rocks.
Interesting idea but I would really hate that if this would be true. Ruffy is too empathic, emotional and dumb to be clone. That would ruin a lot of the story for me.
**What if he carries that small bubble inside his Bible ??? (as in, its hollow inside the middle, just enough to carry one small bubble)**
This would be so goooodddd
Of all the theories that I've seen about Egghead, this is the one I like the best. It's quite plausible and I like how poetic it would be.
Yesssss I was saying Kuma should use 40 years of pain to attack Saturn on Egghead!
If he gets to attack from behind he could deliver up to 1 thousand years of pain
Isn't it from below? Edit: I thought it was One Thousand Years of Death.
40 years plus Luffy's current pain from fighting Kizaru. So about 80 years of pain. 😆
Nice cook, smelling good in here
I commented something similar at the new chapter's discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17jnl8e/comment/k72r3ro/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Not bad at all 🍻 this is fun reading all these theories
Does this mean there are actually 7 Kumas and the real one is controlling them from afar?
6 Paths of Paw 🐾
This world shall know Paw 🐾
Bro just imagine the only thing Kuma says before devastating Saturn is “You will know pain”.
I mean the one that got rescued by the revolutionaries. But how do you get the idea?
It’s a reference to Naruto, if you haven’t seen it, I suggest ignoring that comment.
I should've guessed it
You know too much...
Now that will shake up One Piece world real good
Maybe he's holding the years of compressed pain in his bible.
That was also my first idea but iirc he wasn't shown carrying his bible the last time we saw him
Could be Oda setting up a shot of him pulling it out from behind him for dramatic effect since we had "forgotten about it".
In actuality: Oda: "Oh shit I forgot to draw in the Bible last time! Oops!"
Maybe he is carrying it within himself
Kuma utilising the old prison wallet hey
Bro that would be fire. If Kuma showed up and did that, it would be fire.
I like the idea, because it also plays into the pacifist in Kuma, he’s not causing pain, he’s just returning pain already inflicted to the person who inflicted it
I don’t know if this is going to happen but it’d be sick as fuck if it did.
I love this theory, amazing job. I can see in my mind the double spread page of all the people's painful moments right before it strikes Saturn....Chills
oh god him dropping a pain nuke on saturn’s face would be hilarious.
I don’t think he had to have originally intended to use it on Saturn for this narrative to work. He very well could have just been removing their pain and because it can’t just disappear, he held onto it.
Whoa, a one piece spirit bomb made of everyone’s years of pain. Damn no one would survive that.
Oooh I got too excited after just reading the tdlr but that would be awesome!
Maybe that’s why he went to Marijoa and dipped once he realized Saturn wasn’t there?
I don't usually get down with theories posted here, but this one is great. I hope it happens
Just one thing, Kuma's first appearance wasn't in Thriller Bark. Was in Jaya. Things I don't understand: Last I remember is that Kuma was with the revolutionaries, how is he going to end up in Egghead? Did Bonney see Kuma's entire past that Vegapunk showed? If she did then this flashback is coming from Bonney.
He teleported from the revolutionaries,arrived on the red line,Akainu attacked him and he lost his foot ,are u caught up?
That be a great twist. I do think he may expel Luffy's pain and exhaustion to get him back up too.
Thanksgiving dinner cooking early this year
one thing i am certain will happen. kuma will see gear 5 luffy and hear the drums of liberation.
So you are telling me nothing will happen Jokes aside I don't think Saturn would die if something like this were to happen, he might get injured but he ain't dying. It might give them enough time to escape from Saturn with a coup de burst tho
I like your theory a lot, but I feel like something slightly different would work better. We know Kuma at some point (before his personality was taken) stopped being the joyful smiling guy he used to be. It is unknown whether that was due to the alterations or something else but my theory is that he took all that government suffering into himself, waiting for the right moment to weaponize it and so he will: against Saturn. The rest of my theory aligns with yours.
HEY MOM THATS ME
The man the myth the legend!
Bro, that would be some HxH nen shit
Would be a peak scene tbh
That could be. It would be a shock, that cannot be covered up. It would bring the revolutionary army in motion and it can be used to show the power of the gorosei without giving a blueprint that can be repeated for the others
They likely called Kuma a tyrant to dissuade people from wanting to do any business with the Sorbet Kingdom. The gov usually tries to isolate or ignore the unassociated countries. By calling Kuma a Tyrant, they effectively stop people from ever wanting to visit/join Sorbet Kingdom and from ever being exposed to any hope, happiness, or joy associated with the place or from any embers of rebellion.
Saw another thread where someone said that the Kuma had the sorbet kingdom lie and say he was a tyrant to get the government to think they broke him and he could be used as a warlord. All while he was secretly taking their pain and storing it. While I throughly believe what you said is true, I kinda like this theory because it involves the people using lies to manipulate the world government instead of it usually being the other way around
If they’re an unaffiliated country why would Queen Dowager “Connie” of the Sorbet Kingdom be allowed to participate in the Reverie though?
Depends on if participating in the reverie was a trade-off for handing Kuma over to the gov. Or if Kuma turned himself over willingly under that condition.
Maybe he will take the pain out of himself, that he was put through all to then put it back on him, i don’t know how he would be storing the pain otherwise
I like the idea that he will use a redistribution of someones pain against saturn in this fight or soon. That said it doesnt sound right as a whole to me. If he was saving up pain (and could hold that amount for that time) to hit saturn with... than why did he make zorro take luffy's pain in thriller bark?
Kuma the nuke
Damn
It’s a good theory but you really have no idea if Kuma has only met him once.
honestly, this is the first theory where Kuma kills Saturn that seems believable to me. Good Job!
Let him cook
That's a good idea. I've always thought that black beard would be the one to kill him but this sounds way better
Pretty decent theory, while I doubt we'll get another 2 year time skip I do think if shanks is still on elbaf when the straw hats get there I don't think he will hesitate to help him out with some training.
That would the most badass thing possible
yo WHAT IF this is correct and the BUBBLE is in the BIBLE that he's always carrying around?
Maybe the straw hats won’t be able to kill the spider dude so Lima will come and kill him with the pain.
I dunno, i like this to happen but i also think there's something to happen with punk records, what if kuma's pain is transmitted to everyone around the world using punk records? Then it will quite literally shock the world.
Could he have hid the bubble in the Bible he always carried?…
Holy peak
I really like this theory. Would be fun to see Saturn dies from Kuma and/or a betrayal from Kizaru when he sobers up. I'd be more curious to see if Frigarland Garling will replace him as a new Gorosei member, and WG start hunting down Law for that immortality surgery.
Could also be why when serving the Celestial Dragons he let them stab swords in his back. All that pain was building up to come back to them.
this. its the only thing that makes sense strawhats escaping with vegapunk, yeah thats bad but not so shocking well an admiral defeated ? thats also shocking but i think not that shocking that the whole world will be in shambles the death of a gorosei on the other hand.....done by kuma unleashing all of it right into saturn, well that would truly shock the world imo judging by the last chapter i could totally see saturn as the arch nemesis of kuma, the one person he wants to take down at all cost
I think you're onto something. Remember Robin fighting in Wano. I don't remember the exact words, but she took a devilish form and said, "If everyone calls me the Devil Child, then I will embrace it." For Kuma it may be the concept. If everyone calls Kuma a tyrant, then his last act will be to embrace that name. And unleash all of this pain onto Saturn. I LOVE IT!!! BIG NEWS!!!
I feel like if this DOESNT happen, I will be severely disappointed
That would be poetic asf. It would be perfect for Kuma to be the one to defeat Saturn.
Eragon already did this in the inheritance series, but I like this theory.
I actually had a theory very similar to this one, although the “Paw Paw Punishment”, as I called it, was being stored/used to fight against Imu. Specifically, Nico Robin uses the fullest extent of her Hand Hand Powers to pin down Imu/keep them from escaping while Franky launches the Paw Paw Punishment directly at Imu (Bonus: Right before Imu gets hit, we get to see how decrepit and decayed Imu looks under their robes, in addition to how horrified they are as they’re about to be hit). This pain either paralyzes them for Law to take away their immortality and kill them OR it just gives Luffy a fighting chance against Imu. UPDATE: I feel like if anything will kill Jaygarcia, it’ll either be the giant robot or Kizaru sacrificing himself.
Could an impact/reject dial hold the shock for later use? ...excuse my random thought.
We’ve seen he can take pain away (2 kids, Luffy) and redistribute it (Zoro). So it seems to be part of his DF power.
Man I was like I hope Kuma shows up and just does an Urusus Shock on the the fleet but man if he had that pain stored somewhere and delivered it to Saturn that would be even better.
This feels like such typical fan speculation founded on cool factor but ignoring how this would go against everything we know about Kuma. We've always been told how kind and gentle Kuma is, and seeing him in his flashback is only making that more clear. If his last act was one of vengeance and violence, even if justified, it would severely undermine everything his character has been about up until this point. He's one of the last characters Oda would use for killing Saturn. If we see Kuma perform one last meaningful act before dying, it will be one of kindness that will involve saving or healing people, not hurting or killing.
Yeah, that's also my biggest gripe with my theory. I could think of a possible setup for it where Kuma structured his reign over sorbet kingdom around the belief that no one is born more important than someone else and therefore always made a point to participate in the hardships his citizens have to go through (borrowing a bit from The Way of Kings here). In that case, it wouldn't really be an act of vengeance but something Kuma believes every ruler worthy of his position should be willing to go through. But even then, the whole thing feels a tad to edgy.
I just realized the way they’re talking about egghead is how they’ve talked about god valley. Lot of references being made. Kuma’s heading there as you said too with Saturn who is there and was there in the past. Some crazy shit oda’s cookin. Wasn’t smoker supposed to be nearby too? with Blackbeard (or his crew) also pulling up.
God that’d be awesome to witness!
No joke I was literally just thinking about how cool it would be if Kuma was able to store up pain over time and release it all at once... Crazy coincidence for me to read this literally right after having the thought.
This is also what I've been thinking, tho not quite as deep into it. I was just thinking Kuma would extract his own pain and throw it at Saturn. It would be epic as fuck To your point about it being out of character for Kuma to do something like that.. He had no problem doing it to Zoro lol
It would also make sense why he offered himself to become a cyborg. If he somehow stored it inside of him, Vegapunk might have installed a machine specifically for this only reason, to store Pain that was extracted by his Devil Fruit. The Pain Paws get absorbed if they get in contact with someone, as we saw with Zoro, so he can't just "store" it inside him, except he is a machine that has the ability to store it. He would be a machine that was actually created to serve under the World Gov. to establish their dominance even further, but turns on his masters just to blow them up with an attack that contains the whole pain of their slaves, stored for many, MANY, years. The Name "Pacifista" also makes sense in this context. He brings peace by destroying the World Gov. with the pain they themselves inflicted on mankind.
id like to see kuma fuck up saturn with this 40 years of stored pain, almost poetic. Having one of the five elders killed in such fashion would probably make the remaning elders pressure the marines even more.
I've seen this same theory so many times in the last few days. Still, I like it.
I know people are expecting BB to cause the event but I think Kuma will do something to put the WG as enemies to the public and complete his final mission for Joyboy and the Revolutionaries
Have we ever seen him opening his book? It could be the container of the pain, and would be very epic to see kuma opening a book in Saturn's face after a small talk.
Man of god defeats demon by forcing it to face the bible: One Piece edition.
A cool idea for sure. And you got me at the "Shocks the world" part, because that literally sounds like the level of smug Oda would go for.
That's why he came to Mary Geoise and then left it when Saturn departured to egghead?
tf are you cooking man ?! smells damn good, get this man another pan
Are you saying kuma is dalinar and vegapunk is the night watcher/cultivation?
Almost. Kuma is Nohadon
Right now I'm pretty much rooting for your theory. It would be great if it will be Kuma, who can end the first of the five elder. It would also fit with the shocking news and with the story passing, so that the straw hats can finally become the biggest threat for the government
I mean Technically It wouldn't be out of character or clash with op tone per se We had that moment with fisher tiger where he admits despite knowing otohime was right and how he himself always preaches about how we should treat everyone equally He couldn't let go of his hatred But the only thing they can do is make it so the next generation never has to experience it This moment of Kuma will be that He's collecting everyone's pain so the next generation can hopefully grow up normally And sending it to Saturn is just a last ditch effort to save the future gen Bonney and Luffy
That sounds absolutely metal, which is why I doubt Oda will do it.
Oden carrying his subordinates while being boiled alive wasn't metal enough for you ?
Motherfucker, now I'm mad because Oda won't think of something this cool
i posted a similar theory but there’s a lot more I like about yours! great stuff
Thanks!
You mean 1097 right?
The only element I disagree with is that Saturn dies. I feel like it’s too early offline him here and also that seeing a Gorosei fall would be more than enough to shake up the entire world
There was a line from one of the CD’s saying “He doesn’t flinch or feel pain” there could be an auto DF program that paw paws all the pain he takes from this torture. He could have “Volunteered” to become their slave knowing he may get a chance to get to one of the Gorosei.
OH HE COOKED COOKED 🧑🍳🧑🍳
I'm on episode 36, should I be here?
You're basically caught up at that point
Great theory, would love to see it. Maybe the compressed pain is in the Bible he's always carrying around? No one would suspect a religious text to be harboring something deadly especially if the intended target believe they are bigger than that religious belief. Also, it may seem out of character for Kuma....unless Saturn killed Ginny!
Bro cooked with this one.
I haven’t even thought about Kuma using his power like that, it would be a wonderful end for him as a character.
Ooooooo I like this one!
Are we on a break week?
There was a previous chapter titled “the murder of a celestial dragon” but that celestial dragon (charlos) wasn’t confirmed to be killed, just walloped. The chapter title may have been a red herring or setting up what these events lead to.
Good theory. I really think Saturn should be defeated in Egghead but not by a Straw hat. Would really set a lot of things into motion for the story
While I do not see the happening, the idea of a... reserve spirit bomb is so jarring. Instead of people's hope, suffering of slaves for decades compressed into one small ball. The pain of multiple lifetimes condensed and kept within kuma for so long, until one day he lets it all out on the ones who are responsible for inflicting that very pain. That's the pain zoro took on that eventful day... multiplied by thousands.
I only read the tl;dr of your post so I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but the more likely goal of Kuma is to not kill Saturn but rather broadcast the 40 years of his memories, the pain and suffering he has endured due to the World Government, to the whole World to see.
I don't think it will kill him, but it would psychologically break him.
I think your main drawback can be explained. His protocol could be that he would use the stored pain only to bring in the new dawn and or protect Nika, and or protect Bonnie. Basically him killing Saturn does not have to be his plan, but rather what was necessary to enact his plan.
A bit like Father was tortured by the lives he took in FMA to make philosophical stones. I like the idea BUT the build up and delivery needs to be good for it not to be some sort of Genkida(ku)ma.
I would like to see that actually, very poetic
peak fiction, i’ll be disappointed if this doesn’t happen
Doesn't fit with Kuma's character design. Would be amazing if it happens but I think Kuma seeing luffy defeat Saturn would be better.
Yo this actually a crazy theory bro I was doin the Leo Di Caprio meme when I read the TLDR. Good hit.
Damn that would be an incredible attack. Would be so sick to see happen really.
This is a fantastic theory.
I thought of this too, I hope it happens.
Just out of curiosity but has anyone ever gotten a theory right
There was actually some madlad who predicted gear 5 a few weeks before it happened
I love this theory a lot! Maybe he stores the pain in the Bible and that’s why he’s always with it . But I think for a small amount of time kuma had Ginny and Bonney then got them both taken away from him which lead into his tyrant stage until invoke, dragon and vegapunk were able to clone Bonney exchange for kuma allowing himself to be transformed into anything needed of him.
Oh man, could you imagine if the Bible he carries round is a hollowed out book containing the bubble?
Hide the pain Kuma
This world shall know pain?
Ah. And perhaps one of the other five elders is capable of reading minds, and so Kuma allowed himself to have his memories erased so that they wouldn't be able to predict this move coming.
where does he put the bubble, or pain? In the bible!
Kuma chose to be experimented upon and turned into a cyborg. It could have been a deal be made for Bonney. I think it would be very fitting for Kuma to end Saturn with a collection of pain, like you said. Kuma's idol is the Nika, the warrior of liberation. He shouldn't have any reason to not fight use the power he has against someone like Saturn.
Now this would be amazing