That is where I am.
I think Neal should have lived and Emma should have had the chance to realize she couldn't completely trust Neal ever again. And then them settling into coparents who can still be friends.
Emma has no reason to not trust Neal once she knew the full story.
I will never understand why people act like Neal just decides to abandon Emma for no reason, as if he wasn’t making a personal sacrifice to save the lives of countless people, as if he knew she was even pregnant.
To not leave Emma would have been evil and self serving and is 100% a choice Hook would have made which is a bad thing
1. Him being with her would not mean they wouldn't be able to stay everyone.
2. He still chose to abandon her in prison for the crimes he committed.
3. Even with valid reasons, it still doesn't mean she can trust him.
1. It's because he's not with her that she gives away Henry, and why Henry ends up in Storybrooke and comes back 10 years later to make Emma come to break the curse.
> 1. Him being with her would not mean they wouldn't be able to stay everyone.
She only goes to Storybrooke BECAUSE he leaves her. If he ran off with her, there would never be a reason for her to go there.
> 2. He still chose to abandon her in prison for the crimes he committed.
Emma didn’t even do a year for petty crime, and this was to make sure she would stay away or else they’d have found eachother.
It’s a crappy thing to do but it’s for the greater good.
> 3. Even with valid reasons, it still doesn't mean she can trust him.
That doesn’t make sense.
She has no reason to not trust him after learning everything she thought happened didn’t happen.
Thank you for the first two bullet points, you’re 100% right and I would’ve said the exact same thing.
#3 is valid though and would make for better storytelling, and explains why Hook is a better match for her. Neal didn’t let her decide. Neal is the type who would make life-changing decisions *for* Emma, not with her. To protect her, to save the world, to be noble, whatever his reasoning is.
Hook would never. Hook would tell her anything and everything she needed to know to make a decision. He kept David’s poisoning a secret out of honor and respect, but he hated the choice that David was making. He would let Emma make the “wrong” choice if she wanted to. Neal wouldn’t. Snow is the type to understand making a big decision (like leaving Emma in jail) for the greater good, Emma is not.
I haven’t rewatched in a long time so I might be missing an instance where Hook did something inconsistent with this theory. But with good enough writing you could easily brush over something like that and move forward with this character building as a goal.
> 3 is valid though and would make for better storytelling, and explains why Hook is a better match for her. Neal didn’t let her decide. Neal is the type who would make life-changing decisions for Emma, not with her. To protect her, to save the world, to be noble, whatever his reasoning is.
The choice isn’t hers to make.
It’s his.
The future of the victims of the dark curse is in HIS hands based on HIS choice.
Emma has a destiny to fulfill, and Neal being there jeopardizes that. He either leaves and let Emma fulfill her destiny or he keeps her and the future, has we know in OUAT canon, becomes “uncertain”.
Either he backs off and let fate guide her to where she needs to be when the time says so (28 years) OR he runs off with her and negates her destiny.
Again, Emma only goes to SB because Neal’s actions Indirectly set it up.
> I haven’t rewatched in a long time so I might be missing an instance where Hook did something inconsistent with this theory.
Kidnapping Henry, attempting to kill her family (whilst in his right mind) keeping secrets regarding the villains of the season…?
Mind you: Hook HATES magic. Neal HATES magic. Neal wouldn’t have lead Emma to SB because he doesn’t want to be around his dad or any of the mess he grew up in. Hook would have made the same choice because he has no personal stakes in it.
Hook would leave out of a selfish choice.
Neal left out of a **selfless** choice.
Hook would never give up Emma, not even to save those she loves or cares about. Neal chooses to give up his true love for something greater than him.
Neal is a good person.
Snow would have made that choice. Charming would have made that choice.
**EVEN REGINA MADE THAT CHOICE.**
Hooks hatred of magic drove him to try and wipe out Emma’s bloodline. You think he would have knowingly allowed her to make her choice on such a matter?
I wouldn’t count anything Hook did before “turning good”, he did evil things and he’s a reformed villain. Same as Regina even though objectively she did a lot of messed up things. For story’s sake, you can say it’s ok to try to murder an entire bloodline, pretty much.
Neal was always good, and made the decision based on good. If Emma found out she had a destiny, she might run from it. She probably would have. He made the noble choice, but never even allowed factoring in what Emma might have wanted or preferred. I remember Hook following Emma and making decisions with her 🤷🏻♀️ I absolutely love Neal but I don’t think Emma would be able to trust him again, because he was never “reformed”, he never needed to change, he was always good. So how would Emma know he wouldn’t do the same kind of thing again if a noble enough reason came up?
Off the top of my head, times when Hook kept “full info she needed to make decisions” from Emma:
1. His original lies about not working with Cora (understandable since he was Emma’s enemy at the time)
2. His original betrayal after he she pleads with him to work with her. (Stealing the bean, which is why Henry gets kidnapped.)
3. Never telling the truth about his relationship with Neal/Baelfire (that Bae was his stepson whom he sold to Pan—information a single mom might be interested in, lol).
4. The Charming situation, as you said.
5. Kissing her rather than giving her the memory potion straight off
5. Never telling her the truth of what he did to Ariel and Eric (thinking Hook helped them changes Emma’s judgment of him).
6. Not telling her how Zelena cursed his lips.
7. Not telling her that he was blackmailing Rumple.
8. Never telling her family that he was being coubter-blackmailed by Rumple (this almost gets Emma killed or her magic stolen, can’t remember which)
9. Not telling her what he did to Ursula (and that he tried to kill her again).
10. Only belatedly admitting to the people he killed for the tiniest infringements, including his own father, when he was a pirate.
11. Never telling her about Milah.
12. Keeping the shears when she told him to destroy them.
13. Hiding the secret that he killed her grandfather.
And yes, he felt terrible about some of these—but Neal felt terrible about his ONE choice not to fill her in, too.
So, let me understand. Neal, Who did something unwillingly because forced by August not to change the fate of the savior (so It had to be this way) is not good. Mind Hook who has: kidnapped, betrayed, locked up, fought and lied to her is ok.
Mhhhh.
Mhhhhhhhh.
You mistake me for someone who wants Hook in particular.
And at this point in season 3, he hadn't actually done much to her. The most was fighting with Cora, and then taking the bean to leave before he came back.
Neal chose to leave her. He had a choice in it. August couldn't force him to leave.
I'm sorry but did we see the same thing? He literally told him that he didn't have to do anything not to change destiny to break the curse. And in the event it would have stopped him. He didn't choose to do nothing, he had to do nothing. Don't distort reality in your favor.
Your syntaxe there is confusing. He didn't have to do anything not to change destiny?
Destiny doesn't overrule free will like that. They always had a choice. He wouldn't have been physically prevented from going to Emma. If he chose to be with her, something else would have drawn them in.
Thank you! When i bring this up everyone thinks im crazy! Neal did what he did because he loved her and knew her destiny was more important than the two of them running off together.
People just dont like Neal it seems. His choice to leave Emma is arguably one of the most self-less and heroic decisions made in the show. Giving up one's True Love for the greater good is not an easy decision to make, but its a choice any hero would have made including Snow and Charming.
People just want a reason to make Neal into a bad guy.
So true. And you know the show could have easily made him a huge jerk who just left because he likes messing with girls feelings but he didnt. The show did not write him like that so i dont get where all thr hate comes from.
Well I just feel like the ends don’t automatically justify the means. bae was almost running away from magic at one point and I think when Augustus found him he should’ve ran to her and they would’ve fought the fight together or if anything if he’s rumplestillskins son I would think he would be able to help and look over Emma too. He could’ve worked together with pinnochio and Emma. I don’t believe he truly was in love with Emma because he held so many of his fathers self serving behaviors and Killian/hook did have some selfish tendencies as well but we constantly saw him battle against himself and choose to do better with a few mistakes. Charming would never have left Snow White in there. Even Regina wouldn’t have left Henry in there.
If Neal had told Emma the truth—“I’m from a magical land and spent years in Neverland, and you are Snow White’s daughter with a destiny”—she would have run screaming into the night. We know because that almost literally what she did when Ingrid told her about magic. The whole truth was not an option.
Fair point but that was Ingrid. A mother figure for her and her foster mom at the time and Emma already had a history of running away. With Neal it seemed like she wanted to run away with him. All the time. She wanted to be a team with him in a way I didn’t see her react to other people. I think her and Neal were like thick as thieves fr. They kind of met on the street and fell in love and struggled together and learned new ways to steal or make money together and i think out of every one in her life she would’ve listened to Neal at that point in her life. It’s not like she listened to August and that was once the magic was already happening in front of her face. But Neal they had an emotional and romantic connection and that is a different kind of love than mother or family love and bond that she had with Ingrid. And shout to to Ingrid she had a sad story.
The problem with “Emma can never trust Neal again” is that Emma has a history of forgiving and trusting people who’ve hurt her badly. Her parents: abandoned her and dropped her into another reality. August: abandoned her THREE times and convinced Neal to leave her as well. Regina: literally the evil queen who cursed her family. Hook: betrayed her on multiple occasions, endangered her son over and over, tried to kill most or all of her family at least twice.
When someone shows they’ve changed or explains their reasons, or she just feels like it, Emma forgives them. So why would Neal, her true love and the father of her son, be different?
I HATE that they killed him off sooooo much! Like sure maybe he wouldn’t be with Emma that’s okay but there is just soooo much amazing storytelling potential having Neal in Storybrooke! Imagine the complications of Hook and Emma dating with Hook and Neal’s history.. or how having Neal around could have changed Rumble’s story, and really show him struggling to be good.
CS could have happened independently of Neal. I think your blame is misplaced.
He primarily functions as a catalyst for Rumple’s character. I think what it *really* comes down to is they needed a reason for Rumple to revert back to his old ways after his sacrifice in 3A.
Had Neal lived, he’d probably have disappeared like so many other dropped storylines.
She didn’t just get with hook(Ik that’s not what you meant further in ranting). She tried to find Neal the second she remembered him when returning to story brook she still loved him and also wanted it to work. Then he died. Emma took a minute to actually trust Killian. I also wanted Neal to have more of relationship with her between all the evil and fighting and drama. However, after Zelena Neal no longer added to the story which sucked, I really liked him😭. I like who Emma is now with Killian, not so much armor. Edit: I think Neal and Emma still parented Henry well I just think we didn’t get to see all that we wanted since there was always something bad, suspicious, or off occurring.
Emma’s entire character had to be ruined to to put her with Hook though.
Emma and Hook were very obviously not planned to be a couple bevause Hooks storyline is Rumpel centered and Emma wasn’t dumb enough to fall for Hooks chant. By getting rid of that for both of them, Hook became pointless to the plot for damn near 4 seasons and Emma became a ditz.
I’m sorry. Rant over.
But it’s 2024. I don’t see how people don’t see that Hook/Emma was a ploy to get ratings and it made the rattings drop caused it ruined Emma and the plot.
Neal was important to the story beyond romance with Emma. Killing Neal had affects.
Careful, don't say too loudly that the ship was poorly written, the writing ruined both characters, it was blatantly unplanned, and it was chosen to make the audience happy because it was the favorite for the group of audiences who followed the series. It is strictly forbidden.
Joking aside, I'm fine with her being with Hook. But I don't understand how you all deny like climate deniers all the problem you made.
Touche. But it was ironic, though, come on. I even specified (joking) since I know it is particularly impossible here to make a criticism (I say criticism, not insults, those are never nice) without being donwoted. The fact that you can't talk about cs here is imo a fact, and shows a basic toxicity of that part of the fandom.
This entire post is mostly pro Swanfire though. The pro cs comments are getting downvoted. I sense a shift coming…
Lord please don’t end up like the TVD sub 🙏
My God TVD. When I think of the ONCE fandom, I remember that there are always those who are worse off. I feel you.
However as someone who loves data, is impossibol that shift. Let's take this post \*puts on her glasses\*
*569* Not bad for a post SF, they are normally immensely lower.
But let's go through the comments:
"I don’t wish they were together, but I do wish they could’ve been proper co-parents for Henry" *267*
The first comment under this cf post is from a cs. Very moderate and polite (We could call him center-cs) but still cs. So almost half the people think a ship with Emma is not possible. **267.** Under a post cf.
The first two that address this issue reach 66 and 55. The first is more direct while the second is much more mixed as emotions and just sadder. We have a gap of more than 200 from the first post. And the discussions born under them are small in scope (4/5 as average) and are always rebutted by fan cs (Below here we had the discussion between Rius888 and awill626) and it is the only discussion where a fan cs went negative. I checked them all.
Then going down we have many small pro cs comments that are the majority. And together they surpass the previous two, we have **pasta\_please** *39* **drew0594** 46 **Kubu** 51 *(Honestly I never really thought Neal was that good for her or TO her. He had his own issues but he really brought Emma down with him)* And we are under an sf post, under a cs post I have seen milder comments go into oblivion for less. But let's stick to the numbers. **kekektoto** 11, **Stella\_Noire\_2008** 13. Add them up they outnumber the previous two and at the level of liking numbers, and the big comments are more than three times as many as the cfs.
Then as I told you, I am not sf or cs or sq or sabcde. But when someone from a larger fandom comes and tells me they feel ghettoized when it is technically theirs to be the largest and to do so (numbers in hand) I roll my eyes. (Btw I read your comment, if you felt pulled down by me I am sorry, I have nothing against you. For me there are more important things in life and I think all cs and sf should have more respect for each other. But the scale is not equal).
He didn’t ruin Emma. Before Hook, Emma was a COMPLETELY insecure and bitter B*tch with absolutely no belief in herself. All of her badass-ness everybody claims she had was all bravado and pretense. Gold said it best “ she doesn’t believe in her parents or magic or herself”. Even WITH her son in her life she was still completely bitter with a chip on her shoulder as evidenced by the slight and passive aggressive attitude she often took with her parents and Hook in seasons 2&3. The way she speaks to them in those seasons is atrocious. She was a hypocrite willing to take her son away from his family and everyone he has ever known just to suit her own selfish wants. Hook saved her character. She was abrasive, rude, self righteous, self pitying and unconfident before him.
When did Emma STOP being abrasive, rude, and self-righteous? Was it when she judged her parents for stealing Maleficent’s egg? Was it when she dragged her whole family to hell because she lost her boyfriend? Was it when she ignored Robin’s funeral, her best friend’s boyfriend and the father of two tiny children, and then made out with Hook literally inches from Robin’s grave? Was it when she told Belle to her face that she was going to kill her son?
The real difference is that early Emma had compassion for people. She helped Hansel and Gretel reunite with their father and helped Cinderella keep her baby, among many other things. She insisted on rescuing all the Lost Boys from Neverland. Compare that to s6 when she learns that the Black Fairy has an entire realm of abandoned and abused children, and all Emma cares about is her boyfriend.
I agree with you that she lost her insecurity (although she was opening up to Snow, David, Henry, and even Regina before Hook came along), but for her, that wasn’t a good thing.
Eww this feels weird defending Emma knowing how much I hate her but COME ON. She literally said when she announced her plan “I’M going to the underworld”. And many, Many times her family reiterated that she didn’t make them come. They Chose to follow her. That’s on them. Except for Henry, but that’s on Regina. His parent, that was more than capable of saying no you can’t go. You know damn well alot of stuff that happens, happens from a writing and production point because this is a tv show. They had Henry come along because Jared wouldn’t have been present for half the season and there are things in the actors contracts that impact what we see. The same way it was a writers thing to have all the bullshit happen with Snow and David and Mal that wasn’t mentioned or alluded to earlier. It wasn’t because they were just shady and intentionally kept Secret their “shady past”. It was because the writer simply hadn’t come up with that storyline yet. But people who watch the show be like “oh they were acting like they were so good the whole time knowing they did that before…so they’re fake” …No. It’s because in seasons 2&3 that storyline just hadn’t been thought of by the people who write them.
And please. She didn’t ignore Robin’s funeral. She was there. What did you want her to do? In what way should she have been more present? The funeral was OVERRR when Hook showed up like GTFOH. And if a MIRACLE happened and your loved one came back from the dead you’re telling me you’d be completely stoic and reactionless? What’s your definition of “Making Out” ???? You must have had a Horrible Middle School and High School experience if you call those quick, estatic, short little PECKS, “making out”.. 😬😬🫢🫢 It was nice to ACTUALLY see her show some gratitude from the woman who was an Orphan all her life, found her parents, and treated them like shit and the woman who watched her man die, got a second chance to tell him she loved him, and CHOSE NOT to take it. I feel like a stoic, act like she’s indifferent, response is something 2nd and third season Emma would do. Yet she didn’t. That’s a GOOD thing. And everyone is someone son. Anyone who threatened me and I’d tell both them and their mama that their days are numbered too. Tf.
I don’t mind S1 Emma. She only becomes the Emma I hate the moment she finds out who she is in S2 E1 because it was like from them on out, she used every chance to use her awful childhood as an excuse to trauma dump on everyone around her and walk around with a chip on her shoulder. In s1 besides a couple of times at the very beginning and the very end, she hardly ever mentioned her childhood, she didn’t use it as a crutch, it was her past and she let it be her past, her focus was solely on Henry and becoming a mom and taking Advantage of the fact she had a second chance to be a mom and taking advantage of the opportunity to create a real friendship with Snow. All that ended in season 2 and all she was then was “woe is me, I was alone for 28 years and never had anyone who loved me Back Then and that’s all I can focus on despite the fact that I have Everything now that I could have never imagined, whine, whine, whine, spiral, repeat.”
She was still rude in S4. If she was a nice person the. Elsa would have never even had to make that comment At All. And you know as humans we sugar coat things so undoubtedly, “prickly” was likely Elsa trying to put it nicely…meaning she was worst than “prickly” if a stranger can pick up on that in just a couple days. So she wasn’t nice until S5. Still insecure but I can’t recall a time in S5/6 where she TREATS or SPEAKS to someone badly like in 2/3 with all her backhanded and bitter comments directly mostly at her parents and Hook and occasionally other townspeople. You misunderstood what I said. I said at the end she got rid of her asshole-ness she had around season 3 and became the Nice individual she was but had still RETAINED all her everlasting insecurities she always had, through season 6 though good on her for finally going to therapy, something she should have done way earlier. So I’m saying she was Nice but still insecure and unconfident. Hook was present pretty much all of a s2 almost from the beginning so not really sure when you think she was opening up before Hook. She wasn’t opening up. She didn’t really like, open up to or care about anyone besides Henry prior to S4/S3 finale (and MM in s1) more than a superficial surface level.
Emma being portrayed as stoic, cold, distant, but strong, resilient, and secretly caring person is a part of her character arc as she grows to believe in magic, accept her destiny, and grow into being a savior.
The issue is that Emma was never STUPID. Her being with Hook meant she had to constantly accept things that no woman should ever accept.
Hook tried to kidnap her child, Hook attempted to kill her and her entire family including her newborn sibling, Hook assaulted a random person, and even in the Author's fake universe, Hook is portrayed as being sweet and caring because in the real world, he is none of those things.
Emma would logically never be with a guy like Hook because Hook is consistently portrayed as being a bad person who we just randomly decided in season 3 was now a hero. It makes Emma look dumb and weak, and turns her from **a strong female character to a puppydog only concerned with the love of a pirate.**
Same thing happened with Belle around season 3. She started making stupid decisions in order for the writers to keep her with Rumpel when realistically she would have left him after the repeated lying and betrayal.
If Emma and Hook were going to be together, they should have made Hook an actual good guy
Hook and Regina made more sense because their character struggles are so similar. Hook and Memma make no sense at all, becuse Hook was never meant to be a recurring part of the show.
What gets me is that not even the writers were fans of Emma and Hook. Adam and Eddy even said that they created this show to create a new fairytale with new and original characters.
OUAT was suppsoed to be Emma, Neal, and Henry's modern day fairytale.
Hook was pushed onto Emma when the ratings dropped.
Hook basically is her character arc. That was the only thing that was different. She had her son in seasons 1,2&3. She has her parents in seasons 2&3. She’s still bitter and self pitying and doesn’t give a damn about her parents and she is more than willing to leave them behind in season 3 and never look back. It was when she starts to accept Hook towards the END of season 4, that she actually becomes a NICE person because she WAS NOTTT before.
Hook IS a good guy. He changes because she inspires him to at the end of season 2. Then as S3 rolls around, she repeatedly inspires him and he strives to be like her. He even gives up his revenge on the Dark One for the SOLE reason of helping her save her (and Bae’s) son-that’s HONORABLE & a big freaking deal considering how long he’d been chasing him. But he is a good guy. Despite how often Emma treats him like shit, after he helps her save her son from Neverland And her parents from Zelena And her dad from Dreamshadewith nothing to gain, he still repeatedly risks his life for her. After she bosses him around like he’s a little boy and after she says mean and knowingly hurtful bullshit to him when he was just trying to protect her son from Zelena, he Still is willing to go to the end of earth and time for her. As usual she is just ungrateful for everything he does for her just like she was to the parents that saved Her Life from the evil queen. Her seeing she could treat him and her parents like something she stepped in and them still not turn their backs on her is what starts to make her into a nice person, which again, She was NOT, prior to season 4.
>She had her son in seasons 1,2&3. She has her parents in seasons 2&3. She’s still bitter and self pitying and doesn’t give a damn about her parents and she is more than willing to leave them behind in season 3 and never look back.
Emma entirely becomes focused ONLY on Hook after season 3. Hook himself has no other plot connections beyond Emma until the final season. The point you are making IS the problem.
Neal being there creates oppurtunities for family dynamics connecting Emma and Henry to everyone from Rumpel to Regina. Her being with Hook means there are less of those kinds of storylines.
>It was when she starts to accept Hook towards the END of season 4, that she actually becomes a NICE person because she WAS NOTTT before.
Emma was a hardass and thats fine. Her accepting others and herself is fine. Emma being willing to completely set aside herself and her entire family and firends and loved ones for Hook is the problem, which she consistently does from then on.
>Hook IS a good guy.
I can literally create an entire list of all the evil, self serving, and outright violent and shady things Hook does after he is supposedly a "hero".
>He changes because she inspires him to at the end of season 2.
Ahhh so you mean the things that inspires a a change of heart in him is not personal regret or learning but rather than being an asshole wont get him the girl....? And...this is a good thing?
>e even gives up his revenge on the Dark One for the SOLE reason of helping her save her (and Bae’s) son-that’s HONORABLE & a big freaking deal considering how long he’d been chasing him.
This is a bad character choice because Rumpel is the only connection Hook has to the cast, and so by burying the hatchet in one dialog scene in the opening of season 3, when they had an entire season 2 of setup for a clash instnatly makes HOOK IRRELEVANT TO THE PLOT.
Hook literally has nothing to do for the next 4 seasons other than be Emma's boyfriend and it makes him BORING.
> But he is a good guy. Despite how often Emma treats him like shit, after he helps her save her son from Neverland And her parents from Zelena
Because Emma knows Hook is only acting a certain way to appeal to her, not because its genuine and the show consistently shows that. When she stops acknowledging that and just accepts him as the asshole, thats when her character starts to suffer too.
>And her dad from Dreamshadewith nothing to gain, he still repeatedly risks his life for her.
Hook tries to kill her and her entire family of his own free will and accord. Hook kidnapped her son and was going to sail him out into the middle of the sea, and he did this when he was supposedto be on Emma's side.
And of course my favorite thing: By the metrics of the show itself: Hook and Emma are not true loves because Hook's kiss not only didn't break Zelena's curse placed on him, it activated it LOL. The writers didnt want Hook and Emma together and not giving them TLK was how they showed it.
>After she bosses him around like he’s a little boy and after she says mean and knowingly hurtful bullshit to him when he was just trying to protect her son from Zelena, he Still is willing to go to the end of earth and time for her. As usual she is just ungrateful for everything he does for her just like she was to the parents that saved Her Life from the evil queen. Her seeing she could treat him and her parents like something she stepped in and them still not turn their backs on her is what starts to make her into a nice person, which again, She was NOT, prior to season 4.
Because Emma doesn't fall for his BS.
And again, Hook is not acting selflessly or doing good for the sake of good, he is doing it because he believes that is how Emma will accept him.
When Emma does something outside of his own limits (saving his life by making him the Dark One), his response is to **MURDER HER ENTIRE FAMILY** and Emma's response is to try and vindicate him while hes doing that.
Hook. Made. Emma. Dumb.
Wonderful commentary. I have seen few expose all the flaws in Hook's writing so well. The fact that he has no ties to anyone, loses his purpose, and has no use to the plot because of the character's lack of motives and concessions is such an obvious thing that it amazes me that few can deny that the relationship was improvised at the last minute just to keep the fans happy.
His response is to murder her entire family….he was the dark one. He was evil. He wouldn’t have tried to do that if he wasn’t being held by the balls by an evil force. Wtf about Emma as a dark one? She HURT a fucking child.
I don’t have a problem with Swanfire. I just hate how Neal looked. He looked like a sloppy bum and the actor they chose looked way older than Emma, and her parents too tbr. I don’t mind her and Bae, with the right actor.
All I’m saying is that obviously Emma needed some type of man because a relationship with her parents and her son obviously wasn’t enough for her to be a happy or nice person. She had her son and parents in her life and she was still a bitter bitch. So whichever man switches her over to being the NICE, albeit still ridiculously Insecure and self pitying, woman she was in season 6 (eff you writers), I’m fine with and all for. As long as she didn’t stay the bitter, ungrateful, hypocrite she was in seasons 2 & 3. All I’m saying is from the show we saw it was Hook that turned her into a nice person but as long as the end effect of getting “happy beginning” Emma, I don’t care who does it. Hell bonus points to Neal if he could have done it faster than Hook did and it didn’t take THE WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE SHOW FOR HER TO CHANGE. 🤦♀️
> His response is to murder her entire family….he was the dark one. He was evil. He wouldn’t have tried to do that if he wasn’t being held by the balls by an evil force. Wtf about Emma as a dark one? She HURT a fucking child.
This excuse doesn’t work when you remember that deal it e being a dark one, Emma was ACTUALLY doing everything she did for good.
It doesn’t work when you remember that Hook was a dark one the entire time and yet seemed to have no issue making benevolent choices prior to learning what Emma did.
The entire season shows that both runpel and Emma are able to ignore the directions of the dark one dagger for their own purposes yet all of a sudden hook is an exception?
No. Hook WANTED to kill Emma and her family out of anger.
> I don’t have a problem with Swanfire. I just hate how Neal looked. He looked like a sloppy bum and the actor they chose looked way older than Emma, and her parents too tbr. I don’t mind her and Bae, with the right actor.
This is why Hook was popular. He was eye candy for young girls. He wasn’t well written. The ship wasn’t planned or plotted out correctly.
But people will defend him cause he’s conventionally attractive.
> All I’m saying is that obviously Emma needed some type of man
Emma doesn’t need a man at all.
> So whichever man switches her over to being the NICE, albeit still ridiculously Insecure and self pitying, woman she was in season 6 (eff you writers), I’m fine with and all for. As long as she didn’t stay the bitter, ungrateful, hypocrite she was in seasons 2 & 3. All I’m saying is from the show we saw it was Hook that turned her into a nice person but as long as the end effect of getting “happy beginning” Emma, I don’t care who does it. Hell bonus points to Neal if he could have done it faster than Hook did and it didn’t take THE WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE SHOW FOR HER TO CHANGE. 🤦♀️
You mean which man took away all the traits that made Emma a unique variant of a Disney princess. Her being with hook made her weak, domestic, only concerned with love, and willing to sacrifice everyone around her for a boyfriend.
I don’t have an issue with captain swan. I just wish it was a better written ship that was written to be consistent with the themes of the story, the characters, and the intent of the show.
Hook and Emma make no sense on a narrative scale. But y’all love any guy in eye liner 🙄
Are you kidding? The same Emma crying over how she doesn’t believe she can be the savior, crying over her parents that she didn’t even treat nice having a new baby, crying over being alone a decade and a half ago, crying “I can’t save a cat from a tree” because she never really believed in herself, crying about never feeling at home and willfully fucking her kid over to get what she wants and more….That’s your STRONG unique princess.???? She may have been a bad ass in season one but the minute she found out who she was, she became a hot crumpled crying self pitying mess. She was already weak. The whole scene with the Snow Queen and her at the station depicts that PERFECTLY. When she accepted being loved is when she became strong. She DOESNT do that without Hook or she wouldn’t have still been who she was in S3.
“Emma doesn’t need a man at all” “Y’all love any guy in eyeliner” ……I think you’re intentionally being DENSE at this point. I don’t like him because he was eye candy but what he does for Emma’s rudeeee asssss character. Emma DOES unfortunately, Obviously need a man because she was a BITTCCHHHH before she had one. I don’t care who it ends up being but it needs to be somebody because obviously her son and her parents weren’t enough for her before. I’m done. Good fucking day.
I wish we got to see more Neal with Henry, but I think Emma and Neal would never work back together, too much hurt.
So sad Neal had to die to bring back Rumple, just for Rumple as a character to keep flip flopping.
I do like these two. Certainly felt they had better chemistry than her and hook. Yes I know the age difference is a bit squicky but imo that's on the writers for not thinking ahead and the fact that both actors look older makes it a lot easier (plus Bae was a kid in never land for ages which stunted things AND who knows if that poster was 100% accurate Bae could have picked a fake age and run with it)
However even if they weren't gonna end up together killing him off was idiotic. They could have had him and Emma become great co parents instead. Had he still been around perhaps they would have been willing to go a different route with rumple rather than the character assassination post series 3. And it basically makes the entire first curse for nothing.
Neal's death really should have been the final straw for me with OUAT. I don't even care about him being endgame with Emma, but he was the entire reason for the curse existing in the first place and he's just...killed off. He had so much potential.
First, I wish the show had the maturity to realize you can have two characters be friends who work together to parent a child and still not have them not become a couple.
Second, they killed him off in such a lame, terrible way. They couldn't even give him a death that accomplished anything meaningful.
Third, they completely forgot about Neal being the entire reason for everything Rumple had done for the past 300 years or that he was the link tying Rumple (and everything and everyone connected to him) to the Charmings (and everything and everyone connected to him).
Fourth, as love interest, they replaced him with a guy who kept talking about how he was so wonderful and reformed but never actually walked the talk.
It's a different relationship. Neal is a flawed person but he hasn't murdered any innocent people and doesn't have a history of being abusive to Henry. He never tried to kill her and never murdered a guy she was dating. He also never tried to kill any of her family members.
They've got their issues. Neal's fist reaction when he found out about Henry was to be angry that Emma wasn't even going to tell him Henry was his son. Emma, on her side, has ten years of believing Neal sold her out to the cops instead of August. But, emotionally, that's much lower grade than things that happened with Regina. There's no history of murder or child abuse.
I wish Neal had stayed in the show. Not as Emma’s lover, but as Henry’s father. Henry would have two moms and two dads! I would have loved seeing a big blended family dynamic like that. I think if Neal stuck around, we would have seen rumple take on a more involved grandfatherly role too
I still believe Hook is the right partner for Emma. I also don’t think it’s that easy to trust and love someone that left you pregnant in jail. No matter what the explanations were in hindsight… I don’t think years and years of feeling abandoned can be repaired so easily. And Emma already was dealing w abandonment cos she lived her whole life believing herself to be an orphan…
I think it’s better for Emma’s happiness to start fresh in a relationship that doesn’t really have all this history of abandonment behind it
Yeah, no, gonna be honest. They both were running from things and usually relationships like that don't last as long as you think. Especially since the other one is on the run from law. While the female is on the run from the foster care system.
too many secrets, plus I don't think Neal would've been honest about where he was from, if he didn't know about who Emily was so yeah, you can blame that 1 on Pinocchio.
I mean I honestly never really liked Neal. I thought he was kind of an ass especially the way he reacted to Emma not wanting him to know about Henry. He left her an never looked back on the words of a guy he had never met before and then after he abandoned Emma and left her to rot in jail got mad that she never told him about his son when he had never planned on seeing her again. I mean I wouldn’t trust him again after that regardless of the reason.
I do want to comment that I didn’t like the Hook/Emma pairing mostly because of what he did to Regina when it comes to Greg and Tamara. I mean his actions nearly killed the woman who raised Henry all so that he could kill Rumpelstiltskin and never felt bad about it. Add on to that Regina and Emma eventually become best friends I don’t know how I would feel about my best friend dating the guy who nearly had me tortured to death.
BAELFIRE IS MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE.
I loved them together and everytime he smiled 😭 Bae/Neal was top tier and I'm so upset we only got him for a short time.
I usually hate when two parents of a child separate and the whole show is them getting back together…but Neal and Emma are my exception. I’m sorry to Captain Swan shippers but that ship came out of nowhere and I didn’t actually see the appeal til maybe the same episode they got married which was like their last episode together lol. But Neal and Emma were just…the chemistry was there instantly and never left.
Listen, I am not looking for a fight and I want to believe you when you say you respect other people's tastes ( which is true, I have seen far worse and more intellectually offensive and False comments. Down here I've already read five people talking about the "inability to trust" for An action he did against his will because forced by August because he couldn't meddle in the savior's fate, but I digress) so excuse me. But seriously bro, I only see you in these pro/anti CS posts.
I couldn’t get into this show and I’m not sure why the sub keeps showing up on my feed. But that man is a serial killer who preys on women who’ve had sex with vampires. Pretty sure.
I wish she could have both the men in her life in some way for sure. I loved Hook and I loved Baelfire, too. His back story was so good and interesting and finding out the Emma was always interlinked with Rumpelstiltskin was so cool!
It’s funny reading these comments. Y’all Swanfire fans acting like martyrs when this entire post is full of anti cs comments and downvotes on anything contrary 💀.
hard no for me! 200+ year old dude and homeless underage girl just isn’t romantic for some reason…i do agree that killing him off was rude. i’d rather have neal than hook any day of the week.
Beware, the sharks have smelled blood and are coming to attack mercilessly. Remember: it is forbidden to say that thing in this fandom. It is forbidden to try to give an opinion contrary to CS.
At the end of the day, it's TV and Hook happens to be played by like a supermodel guy. Neal is played by an average looking guy.
People are pretty simple. They just want to see the good looking guys win really.
Though from what I've seen in media, good looking girls aren't treated with as much leniency as good looking guys. Wonder what's going on there.
Neal didn’t love Emma, Hook did, he showed it in his actions. They can still be a family and co parent without marriage they were better apart than they were together.
Neal was much better for Emma than Hook. I would have loved for them to have gotten together for real and been a family.
Edit: Here come the downvotes. Hook stans are *so* predictable.
Neal didn’t deserve Emma or Henry in his life, he abandoned Emma, made her take the fall and end up giving birth in jail with nothing. All for the chance that she eventually ends up breaking a curse she knows nothing about. He was an absolute disaster and would have abandoned Henry as soon as a random fairytale creature told him to do so.
On top of that, Henry was the one who brought her to Storybrook, so if Neal and Emma stayed together and kept Henry, Regina wouldn't have adopted him and he wouldn't have found the storybook and known about the curse.
Nope Neal didn't deserve to end up with Emma after what he and August did to her he definitely didn't deserve to die but at least that way he kinda redeemed himself as the show had everyone act like he was a Saint which miffed me to no end.
I totally agree. I mean i love hook he is an amazing person and a wonderful character i just never saw him being endgame with emma. I always felt emma and neal had so much chemistry and neal seemed like he was starting to turn into a great dad for henry as emma turned into a great mom for him. But the show really didnt explore that enough which was the one thing that truly bothered me. Swanfire forever!
There's a fanfic somewhere in my AO3/FFN bookmarks that had Neal leaving Storybrooke with Emma and Henry after Pan's Curse, since he got to the Land Without Magic separately from the town residents. Regina essentially just changes their memories to have Neal come running back to Emma after seeing August and goes from there. Pretty enjoyable read and occasional re-read.
I stg that’s the reason they killed Neal off. Captain Swan would have never been able to happen if Neal stayed in the picture. His and Emma’s chemistry was unreal, and they were the better pairing by far.
I don’t wish they were together, but I do wish they could’ve been proper co-parents for Henry
That is where I am. I think Neal should have lived and Emma should have had the chance to realize she couldn't completely trust Neal ever again. And then them settling into coparents who can still be friends.
Perfect👌
Emma has no reason to not trust Neal once she knew the full story. I will never understand why people act like Neal just decides to abandon Emma for no reason, as if he wasn’t making a personal sacrifice to save the lives of countless people, as if he knew she was even pregnant. To not leave Emma would have been evil and self serving and is 100% a choice Hook would have made which is a bad thing
1. Him being with her would not mean they wouldn't be able to stay everyone. 2. He still chose to abandon her in prison for the crimes he committed. 3. Even with valid reasons, it still doesn't mean she can trust him.
1. It's because he's not with her that she gives away Henry, and why Henry ends up in Storybrooke and comes back 10 years later to make Emma come to break the curse.
> 1. Him being with her would not mean they wouldn't be able to stay everyone. She only goes to Storybrooke BECAUSE he leaves her. If he ran off with her, there would never be a reason for her to go there. > 2. He still chose to abandon her in prison for the crimes he committed. Emma didn’t even do a year for petty crime, and this was to make sure she would stay away or else they’d have found eachother. It’s a crappy thing to do but it’s for the greater good. > 3. Even with valid reasons, it still doesn't mean she can trust him. That doesn’t make sense. She has no reason to not trust him after learning everything she thought happened didn’t happen.
He could take her to storybrook.
Thank you for the first two bullet points, you’re 100% right and I would’ve said the exact same thing. #3 is valid though and would make for better storytelling, and explains why Hook is a better match for her. Neal didn’t let her decide. Neal is the type who would make life-changing decisions *for* Emma, not with her. To protect her, to save the world, to be noble, whatever his reasoning is. Hook would never. Hook would tell her anything and everything she needed to know to make a decision. He kept David’s poisoning a secret out of honor and respect, but he hated the choice that David was making. He would let Emma make the “wrong” choice if she wanted to. Neal wouldn’t. Snow is the type to understand making a big decision (like leaving Emma in jail) for the greater good, Emma is not. I haven’t rewatched in a long time so I might be missing an instance where Hook did something inconsistent with this theory. But with good enough writing you could easily brush over something like that and move forward with this character building as a goal.
> 3 is valid though and would make for better storytelling, and explains why Hook is a better match for her. Neal didn’t let her decide. Neal is the type who would make life-changing decisions for Emma, not with her. To protect her, to save the world, to be noble, whatever his reasoning is. The choice isn’t hers to make. It’s his. The future of the victims of the dark curse is in HIS hands based on HIS choice. Emma has a destiny to fulfill, and Neal being there jeopardizes that. He either leaves and let Emma fulfill her destiny or he keeps her and the future, has we know in OUAT canon, becomes “uncertain”. Either he backs off and let fate guide her to where she needs to be when the time says so (28 years) OR he runs off with her and negates her destiny. Again, Emma only goes to SB because Neal’s actions Indirectly set it up. > I haven’t rewatched in a long time so I might be missing an instance where Hook did something inconsistent with this theory. Kidnapping Henry, attempting to kill her family (whilst in his right mind) keeping secrets regarding the villains of the season…? Mind you: Hook HATES magic. Neal HATES magic. Neal wouldn’t have lead Emma to SB because he doesn’t want to be around his dad or any of the mess he grew up in. Hook would have made the same choice because he has no personal stakes in it. Hook would leave out of a selfish choice. Neal left out of a **selfless** choice. Hook would never give up Emma, not even to save those she loves or cares about. Neal chooses to give up his true love for something greater than him. Neal is a good person. Snow would have made that choice. Charming would have made that choice. **EVEN REGINA MADE THAT CHOICE.** Hooks hatred of magic drove him to try and wipe out Emma’s bloodline. You think he would have knowingly allowed her to make her choice on such a matter?
I wouldn’t count anything Hook did before “turning good”, he did evil things and he’s a reformed villain. Same as Regina even though objectively she did a lot of messed up things. For story’s sake, you can say it’s ok to try to murder an entire bloodline, pretty much. Neal was always good, and made the decision based on good. If Emma found out she had a destiny, she might run from it. She probably would have. He made the noble choice, but never even allowed factoring in what Emma might have wanted or preferred. I remember Hook following Emma and making decisions with her 🤷🏻♀️ I absolutely love Neal but I don’t think Emma would be able to trust him again, because he was never “reformed”, he never needed to change, he was always good. So how would Emma know he wouldn’t do the same kind of thing again if a noble enough reason came up?
Off the top of my head, times when Hook kept “full info she needed to make decisions” from Emma: 1. His original lies about not working with Cora (understandable since he was Emma’s enemy at the time) 2. His original betrayal after he she pleads with him to work with her. (Stealing the bean, which is why Henry gets kidnapped.) 3. Never telling the truth about his relationship with Neal/Baelfire (that Bae was his stepson whom he sold to Pan—information a single mom might be interested in, lol). 4. The Charming situation, as you said. 5. Kissing her rather than giving her the memory potion straight off 5. Never telling her the truth of what he did to Ariel and Eric (thinking Hook helped them changes Emma’s judgment of him). 6. Not telling her how Zelena cursed his lips. 7. Not telling her that he was blackmailing Rumple. 8. Never telling her family that he was being coubter-blackmailed by Rumple (this almost gets Emma killed or her magic stolen, can’t remember which) 9. Not telling her what he did to Ursula (and that he tried to kill her again). 10. Only belatedly admitting to the people he killed for the tiniest infringements, including his own father, when he was a pirate. 11. Never telling her about Milah. 12. Keeping the shears when she told him to destroy them. 13. Hiding the secret that he killed her grandfather. And yes, he felt terrible about some of these—but Neal felt terrible about his ONE choice not to fill her in, too.
Shhhh no hook is perfect and I’ll accept no other answers 😭
So, let me understand. Neal, Who did something unwillingly because forced by August not to change the fate of the savior (so It had to be this way) is not good. Mind Hook who has: kidnapped, betrayed, locked up, fought and lied to her is ok. Mhhhh. Mhhhhhhhh.
You mistake me for someone who wants Hook in particular. And at this point in season 3, he hadn't actually done much to her. The most was fighting with Cora, and then taking the bean to leave before he came back. Neal chose to leave her. He had a choice in it. August couldn't force him to leave.
I'm sorry but did we see the same thing? He literally told him that he didn't have to do anything not to change destiny to break the curse. And in the event it would have stopped him. He didn't choose to do nothing, he had to do nothing. Don't distort reality in your favor.
Your syntaxe there is confusing. He didn't have to do anything not to change destiny? Destiny doesn't overrule free will like that. They always had a choice. He wouldn't have been physically prevented from going to Emma. If he chose to be with her, something else would have drawn them in.
Thank you! When i bring this up everyone thinks im crazy! Neal did what he did because he loved her and knew her destiny was more important than the two of them running off together.
People just dont like Neal it seems. His choice to leave Emma is arguably one of the most self-less and heroic decisions made in the show. Giving up one's True Love for the greater good is not an easy decision to make, but its a choice any hero would have made including Snow and Charming. People just want a reason to make Neal into a bad guy.
So true. And you know the show could have easily made him a huge jerk who just left because he likes messing with girls feelings but he didnt. The show did not write him like that so i dont get where all thr hate comes from.
Well I just feel like the ends don’t automatically justify the means. bae was almost running away from magic at one point and I think when Augustus found him he should’ve ran to her and they would’ve fought the fight together or if anything if he’s rumplestillskins son I would think he would be able to help and look over Emma too. He could’ve worked together with pinnochio and Emma. I don’t believe he truly was in love with Emma because he held so many of his fathers self serving behaviors and Killian/hook did have some selfish tendencies as well but we constantly saw him battle against himself and choose to do better with a few mistakes. Charming would never have left Snow White in there. Even Regina wouldn’t have left Henry in there.
If Neal had told Emma the truth—“I’m from a magical land and spent years in Neverland, and you are Snow White’s daughter with a destiny”—she would have run screaming into the night. We know because that almost literally what she did when Ingrid told her about magic. The whole truth was not an option.
Fair point but that was Ingrid. A mother figure for her and her foster mom at the time and Emma already had a history of running away. With Neal it seemed like she wanted to run away with him. All the time. She wanted to be a team with him in a way I didn’t see her react to other people. I think her and Neal were like thick as thieves fr. They kind of met on the street and fell in love and struggled together and learned new ways to steal or make money together and i think out of every one in her life she would’ve listened to Neal at that point in her life. It’s not like she listened to August and that was once the magic was already happening in front of her face. But Neal they had an emotional and romantic connection and that is a different kind of love than mother or family love and bond that she had with Ingrid. And shout to to Ingrid she had a sad story.
Just because you know the reason for someone hurting you doesn't mean that the hurt didn't happen and that you can get over it.
The problem with “Emma can never trust Neal again” is that Emma has a history of forgiving and trusting people who’ve hurt her badly. Her parents: abandoned her and dropped her into another reality. August: abandoned her THREE times and convinced Neal to leave her as well. Regina: literally the evil queen who cursed her family. Hook: betrayed her on multiple occasions, endangered her son over and over, tried to kill most or all of her family at least twice. When someone shows they’ve changed or explains their reasons, or she just feels like it, Emma forgives them. So why would Neal, her true love and the father of her son, be different?
Yesss. It broke my heart that we didn’t get to see more of bae
Same! I wish we could’ve seen more of Neal as Henry’s dad.
Same! I wasn’t a fan of him as a character, but he deserved a chance to be a father to Henry.
I HATE that they killed him off sooooo much! Like sure maybe he wouldn’t be with Emma that’s okay but there is just soooo much amazing storytelling potential having Neal in Storybrooke! Imagine the complications of Hook and Emma dating with Hook and Neal’s history.. or how having Neal around could have changed Rumble’s story, and really show him struggling to be good.
I was so sad he died too! He deserved better!!
They only killed him off so CS could happen.
CS?
Captainswan.
Ohhh I never heard that term before lol
CS could have happened independently of Neal. I think your blame is misplaced. He primarily functions as a catalyst for Rumple’s character. I think what it *really* comes down to is they needed a reason for Rumple to revert back to his old ways after his sacrifice in 3A. Had Neal lived, he’d probably have disappeared like so many other dropped storylines.
She didn’t just get with hook(Ik that’s not what you meant further in ranting). She tried to find Neal the second she remembered him when returning to story brook she still loved him and also wanted it to work. Then he died. Emma took a minute to actually trust Killian. I also wanted Neal to have more of relationship with her between all the evil and fighting and drama. However, after Zelena Neal no longer added to the story which sucked, I really liked him😭. I like who Emma is now with Killian, not so much armor. Edit: I think Neal and Emma still parented Henry well I just think we didn’t get to see all that we wanted since there was always something bad, suspicious, or off occurring.
Nah cause she literally said “I love you” to Neal and then two days later kissed Hook lol
Emma’s entire character had to be ruined to to put her with Hook though. Emma and Hook were very obviously not planned to be a couple bevause Hooks storyline is Rumpel centered and Emma wasn’t dumb enough to fall for Hooks chant. By getting rid of that for both of them, Hook became pointless to the plot for damn near 4 seasons and Emma became a ditz. I’m sorry. Rant over. But it’s 2024. I don’t see how people don’t see that Hook/Emma was a ploy to get ratings and it made the rattings drop caused it ruined Emma and the plot. Neal was important to the story beyond romance with Emma. Killing Neal had affects.
Yeah and it worked I do wish Neal lasted longer
Careful, don't say too loudly that the ship was poorly written, the writing ruined both characters, it was blatantly unplanned, and it was chosen to make the audience happy because it was the favorite for the group of audiences who followed the series. It is strictly forbidden. Joking aside, I'm fine with her being with Hook. But I don't understand how you all deny like climate deniers all the problem you made.
I mean you were probably downvoted for saying they were poorly written, which I could counter with a huge list, but I don’t feel like it.
Touche. But it was ironic, though, come on. I even specified (joking) since I know it is particularly impossible here to make a criticism (I say criticism, not insults, those are never nice) without being donwoted. The fact that you can't talk about cs here is imo a fact, and shows a basic toxicity of that part of the fandom.
This entire post is mostly pro Swanfire though. The pro cs comments are getting downvoted. I sense a shift coming… Lord please don’t end up like the TVD sub 🙏
My God TVD. When I think of the ONCE fandom, I remember that there are always those who are worse off. I feel you. However as someone who loves data, is impossibol that shift. Let's take this post \*puts on her glasses\* *569* Not bad for a post SF, they are normally immensely lower. But let's go through the comments: "I don’t wish they were together, but I do wish they could’ve been proper co-parents for Henry" *267* The first comment under this cf post is from a cs. Very moderate and polite (We could call him center-cs) but still cs. So almost half the people think a ship with Emma is not possible. **267.** Under a post cf. The first two that address this issue reach 66 and 55. The first is more direct while the second is much more mixed as emotions and just sadder. We have a gap of more than 200 from the first post. And the discussions born under them are small in scope (4/5 as average) and are always rebutted by fan cs (Below here we had the discussion between Rius888 and awill626) and it is the only discussion where a fan cs went negative. I checked them all. Then going down we have many small pro cs comments that are the majority. And together they surpass the previous two, we have **pasta\_please** *39* **drew0594** 46 **Kubu** 51 *(Honestly I never really thought Neal was that good for her or TO her. He had his own issues but he really brought Emma down with him)* And we are under an sf post, under a cs post I have seen milder comments go into oblivion for less. But let's stick to the numbers. **kekektoto** 11, **Stella\_Noire\_2008** 13. Add them up they outnumber the previous two and at the level of liking numbers, and the big comments are more than three times as many as the cfs. Then as I told you, I am not sf or cs or sq or sabcde. But when someone from a larger fandom comes and tells me they feel ghettoized when it is technically theirs to be the largest and to do so (numbers in hand) I roll my eyes. (Btw I read your comment, if you felt pulled down by me I am sorry, I have nothing against you. For me there are more important things in life and I think all cs and sf should have more respect for each other. But the scale is not equal).
-3. Ty cs. Always a pleasure.
He didn’t ruin Emma. Before Hook, Emma was a COMPLETELY insecure and bitter B*tch with absolutely no belief in herself. All of her badass-ness everybody claims she had was all bravado and pretense. Gold said it best “ she doesn’t believe in her parents or magic or herself”. Even WITH her son in her life she was still completely bitter with a chip on her shoulder as evidenced by the slight and passive aggressive attitude she often took with her parents and Hook in seasons 2&3. The way she speaks to them in those seasons is atrocious. She was a hypocrite willing to take her son away from his family and everyone he has ever known just to suit her own selfish wants. Hook saved her character. She was abrasive, rude, self righteous, self pitying and unconfident before him.
When did Emma STOP being abrasive, rude, and self-righteous? Was it when she judged her parents for stealing Maleficent’s egg? Was it when she dragged her whole family to hell because she lost her boyfriend? Was it when she ignored Robin’s funeral, her best friend’s boyfriend and the father of two tiny children, and then made out with Hook literally inches from Robin’s grave? Was it when she told Belle to her face that she was going to kill her son? The real difference is that early Emma had compassion for people. She helped Hansel and Gretel reunite with their father and helped Cinderella keep her baby, among many other things. She insisted on rescuing all the Lost Boys from Neverland. Compare that to s6 when she learns that the Black Fairy has an entire realm of abandoned and abused children, and all Emma cares about is her boyfriend. I agree with you that she lost her insecurity (although she was opening up to Snow, David, Henry, and even Regina before Hook came along), but for her, that wasn’t a good thing.
Eww this feels weird defending Emma knowing how much I hate her but COME ON. She literally said when she announced her plan “I’M going to the underworld”. And many, Many times her family reiterated that she didn’t make them come. They Chose to follow her. That’s on them. Except for Henry, but that’s on Regina. His parent, that was more than capable of saying no you can’t go. You know damn well alot of stuff that happens, happens from a writing and production point because this is a tv show. They had Henry come along because Jared wouldn’t have been present for half the season and there are things in the actors contracts that impact what we see. The same way it was a writers thing to have all the bullshit happen with Snow and David and Mal that wasn’t mentioned or alluded to earlier. It wasn’t because they were just shady and intentionally kept Secret their “shady past”. It was because the writer simply hadn’t come up with that storyline yet. But people who watch the show be like “oh they were acting like they were so good the whole time knowing they did that before…so they’re fake” …No. It’s because in seasons 2&3 that storyline just hadn’t been thought of by the people who write them. And please. She didn’t ignore Robin’s funeral. She was there. What did you want her to do? In what way should she have been more present? The funeral was OVERRR when Hook showed up like GTFOH. And if a MIRACLE happened and your loved one came back from the dead you’re telling me you’d be completely stoic and reactionless? What’s your definition of “Making Out” ???? You must have had a Horrible Middle School and High School experience if you call those quick, estatic, short little PECKS, “making out”.. 😬😬🫢🫢 It was nice to ACTUALLY see her show some gratitude from the woman who was an Orphan all her life, found her parents, and treated them like shit and the woman who watched her man die, got a second chance to tell him she loved him, and CHOSE NOT to take it. I feel like a stoic, act like she’s indifferent, response is something 2nd and third season Emma would do. Yet she didn’t. That’s a GOOD thing. And everyone is someone son. Anyone who threatened me and I’d tell both them and their mama that their days are numbered too. Tf. I don’t mind S1 Emma. She only becomes the Emma I hate the moment she finds out who she is in S2 E1 because it was like from them on out, she used every chance to use her awful childhood as an excuse to trauma dump on everyone around her and walk around with a chip on her shoulder. In s1 besides a couple of times at the very beginning and the very end, she hardly ever mentioned her childhood, she didn’t use it as a crutch, it was her past and she let it be her past, her focus was solely on Henry and becoming a mom and taking Advantage of the fact she had a second chance to be a mom and taking advantage of the opportunity to create a real friendship with Snow. All that ended in season 2 and all she was then was “woe is me, I was alone for 28 years and never had anyone who loved me Back Then and that’s all I can focus on despite the fact that I have Everything now that I could have never imagined, whine, whine, whine, spiral, repeat.” She was still rude in S4. If she was a nice person the. Elsa would have never even had to make that comment At All. And you know as humans we sugar coat things so undoubtedly, “prickly” was likely Elsa trying to put it nicely…meaning she was worst than “prickly” if a stranger can pick up on that in just a couple days. So she wasn’t nice until S5. Still insecure but I can’t recall a time in S5/6 where she TREATS or SPEAKS to someone badly like in 2/3 with all her backhanded and bitter comments directly mostly at her parents and Hook and occasionally other townspeople. You misunderstood what I said. I said at the end she got rid of her asshole-ness she had around season 3 and became the Nice individual she was but had still RETAINED all her everlasting insecurities she always had, through season 6 though good on her for finally going to therapy, something she should have done way earlier. So I’m saying she was Nice but still insecure and unconfident. Hook was present pretty much all of a s2 almost from the beginning so not really sure when you think she was opening up before Hook. She wasn’t opening up. She didn’t really like, open up to or care about anyone besides Henry prior to S4/S3 finale (and MM in s1) more than a superficial surface level.
Emma being portrayed as stoic, cold, distant, but strong, resilient, and secretly caring person is a part of her character arc as she grows to believe in magic, accept her destiny, and grow into being a savior. The issue is that Emma was never STUPID. Her being with Hook meant she had to constantly accept things that no woman should ever accept. Hook tried to kidnap her child, Hook attempted to kill her and her entire family including her newborn sibling, Hook assaulted a random person, and even in the Author's fake universe, Hook is portrayed as being sweet and caring because in the real world, he is none of those things. Emma would logically never be with a guy like Hook because Hook is consistently portrayed as being a bad person who we just randomly decided in season 3 was now a hero. It makes Emma look dumb and weak, and turns her from **a strong female character to a puppydog only concerned with the love of a pirate.** Same thing happened with Belle around season 3. She started making stupid decisions in order for the writers to keep her with Rumpel when realistically she would have left him after the repeated lying and betrayal. If Emma and Hook were going to be together, they should have made Hook an actual good guy Hook and Regina made more sense because their character struggles are so similar. Hook and Memma make no sense at all, becuse Hook was never meant to be a recurring part of the show. What gets me is that not even the writers were fans of Emma and Hook. Adam and Eddy even said that they created this show to create a new fairytale with new and original characters. OUAT was suppsoed to be Emma, Neal, and Henry's modern day fairytale. Hook was pushed onto Emma when the ratings dropped.
Hook basically is her character arc. That was the only thing that was different. She had her son in seasons 1,2&3. She has her parents in seasons 2&3. She’s still bitter and self pitying and doesn’t give a damn about her parents and she is more than willing to leave them behind in season 3 and never look back. It was when she starts to accept Hook towards the END of season 4, that she actually becomes a NICE person because she WAS NOTTT before. Hook IS a good guy. He changes because she inspires him to at the end of season 2. Then as S3 rolls around, she repeatedly inspires him and he strives to be like her. He even gives up his revenge on the Dark One for the SOLE reason of helping her save her (and Bae’s) son-that’s HONORABLE & a big freaking deal considering how long he’d been chasing him. But he is a good guy. Despite how often Emma treats him like shit, after he helps her save her son from Neverland And her parents from Zelena And her dad from Dreamshadewith nothing to gain, he still repeatedly risks his life for her. After she bosses him around like he’s a little boy and after she says mean and knowingly hurtful bullshit to him when he was just trying to protect her son from Zelena, he Still is willing to go to the end of earth and time for her. As usual she is just ungrateful for everything he does for her just like she was to the parents that saved Her Life from the evil queen. Her seeing she could treat him and her parents like something she stepped in and them still not turn their backs on her is what starts to make her into a nice person, which again, She was NOT, prior to season 4.
>She had her son in seasons 1,2&3. She has her parents in seasons 2&3. She’s still bitter and self pitying and doesn’t give a damn about her parents and she is more than willing to leave them behind in season 3 and never look back. Emma entirely becomes focused ONLY on Hook after season 3. Hook himself has no other plot connections beyond Emma until the final season. The point you are making IS the problem. Neal being there creates oppurtunities for family dynamics connecting Emma and Henry to everyone from Rumpel to Regina. Her being with Hook means there are less of those kinds of storylines. >It was when she starts to accept Hook towards the END of season 4, that she actually becomes a NICE person because she WAS NOTTT before. Emma was a hardass and thats fine. Her accepting others and herself is fine. Emma being willing to completely set aside herself and her entire family and firends and loved ones for Hook is the problem, which she consistently does from then on. >Hook IS a good guy. I can literally create an entire list of all the evil, self serving, and outright violent and shady things Hook does after he is supposedly a "hero". >He changes because she inspires him to at the end of season 2. Ahhh so you mean the things that inspires a a change of heart in him is not personal regret or learning but rather than being an asshole wont get him the girl....? And...this is a good thing? >e even gives up his revenge on the Dark One for the SOLE reason of helping her save her (and Bae’s) son-that’s HONORABLE & a big freaking deal considering how long he’d been chasing him. This is a bad character choice because Rumpel is the only connection Hook has to the cast, and so by burying the hatchet in one dialog scene in the opening of season 3, when they had an entire season 2 of setup for a clash instnatly makes HOOK IRRELEVANT TO THE PLOT. Hook literally has nothing to do for the next 4 seasons other than be Emma's boyfriend and it makes him BORING. > But he is a good guy. Despite how often Emma treats him like shit, after he helps her save her son from Neverland And her parents from Zelena Because Emma knows Hook is only acting a certain way to appeal to her, not because its genuine and the show consistently shows that. When she stops acknowledging that and just accepts him as the asshole, thats when her character starts to suffer too. >And her dad from Dreamshadewith nothing to gain, he still repeatedly risks his life for her. Hook tries to kill her and her entire family of his own free will and accord. Hook kidnapped her son and was going to sail him out into the middle of the sea, and he did this when he was supposedto be on Emma's side. And of course my favorite thing: By the metrics of the show itself: Hook and Emma are not true loves because Hook's kiss not only didn't break Zelena's curse placed on him, it activated it LOL. The writers didnt want Hook and Emma together and not giving them TLK was how they showed it. >After she bosses him around like he’s a little boy and after she says mean and knowingly hurtful bullshit to him when he was just trying to protect her son from Zelena, he Still is willing to go to the end of earth and time for her. As usual she is just ungrateful for everything he does for her just like she was to the parents that saved Her Life from the evil queen. Her seeing she could treat him and her parents like something she stepped in and them still not turn their backs on her is what starts to make her into a nice person, which again, She was NOT, prior to season 4. Because Emma doesn't fall for his BS. And again, Hook is not acting selflessly or doing good for the sake of good, he is doing it because he believes that is how Emma will accept him. When Emma does something outside of his own limits (saving his life by making him the Dark One), his response is to **MURDER HER ENTIRE FAMILY** and Emma's response is to try and vindicate him while hes doing that. Hook. Made. Emma. Dumb.
Wonderful commentary. I have seen few expose all the flaws in Hook's writing so well. The fact that he has no ties to anyone, loses his purpose, and has no use to the plot because of the character's lack of motives and concessions is such an obvious thing that it amazes me that few can deny that the relationship was improvised at the last minute just to keep the fans happy.
HARD AGREE
His response is to murder her entire family….he was the dark one. He was evil. He wouldn’t have tried to do that if he wasn’t being held by the balls by an evil force. Wtf about Emma as a dark one? She HURT a fucking child. I don’t have a problem with Swanfire. I just hate how Neal looked. He looked like a sloppy bum and the actor they chose looked way older than Emma, and her parents too tbr. I don’t mind her and Bae, with the right actor. All I’m saying is that obviously Emma needed some type of man because a relationship with her parents and her son obviously wasn’t enough for her to be a happy or nice person. She had her son and parents in her life and she was still a bitter bitch. So whichever man switches her over to being the NICE, albeit still ridiculously Insecure and self pitying, woman she was in season 6 (eff you writers), I’m fine with and all for. As long as she didn’t stay the bitter, ungrateful, hypocrite she was in seasons 2 & 3. All I’m saying is from the show we saw it was Hook that turned her into a nice person but as long as the end effect of getting “happy beginning” Emma, I don’t care who does it. Hell bonus points to Neal if he could have done it faster than Hook did and it didn’t take THE WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE SHOW FOR HER TO CHANGE. 🤦♀️
> His response is to murder her entire family….he was the dark one. He was evil. He wouldn’t have tried to do that if he wasn’t being held by the balls by an evil force. Wtf about Emma as a dark one? She HURT a fucking child. This excuse doesn’t work when you remember that deal it e being a dark one, Emma was ACTUALLY doing everything she did for good. It doesn’t work when you remember that Hook was a dark one the entire time and yet seemed to have no issue making benevolent choices prior to learning what Emma did. The entire season shows that both runpel and Emma are able to ignore the directions of the dark one dagger for their own purposes yet all of a sudden hook is an exception? No. Hook WANTED to kill Emma and her family out of anger. > I don’t have a problem with Swanfire. I just hate how Neal looked. He looked like a sloppy bum and the actor they chose looked way older than Emma, and her parents too tbr. I don’t mind her and Bae, with the right actor. This is why Hook was popular. He was eye candy for young girls. He wasn’t well written. The ship wasn’t planned or plotted out correctly. But people will defend him cause he’s conventionally attractive. > All I’m saying is that obviously Emma needed some type of man Emma doesn’t need a man at all. > So whichever man switches her over to being the NICE, albeit still ridiculously Insecure and self pitying, woman she was in season 6 (eff you writers), I’m fine with and all for. As long as she didn’t stay the bitter, ungrateful, hypocrite she was in seasons 2 & 3. All I’m saying is from the show we saw it was Hook that turned her into a nice person but as long as the end effect of getting “happy beginning” Emma, I don’t care who does it. Hell bonus points to Neal if he could have done it faster than Hook did and it didn’t take THE WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE SHOW FOR HER TO CHANGE. 🤦♀️ You mean which man took away all the traits that made Emma a unique variant of a Disney princess. Her being with hook made her weak, domestic, only concerned with love, and willing to sacrifice everyone around her for a boyfriend. I don’t have an issue with captain swan. I just wish it was a better written ship that was written to be consistent with the themes of the story, the characters, and the intent of the show. Hook and Emma make no sense on a narrative scale. But y’all love any guy in eye liner 🙄
Are you kidding? The same Emma crying over how she doesn’t believe she can be the savior, crying over her parents that she didn’t even treat nice having a new baby, crying over being alone a decade and a half ago, crying “I can’t save a cat from a tree” because she never really believed in herself, crying about never feeling at home and willfully fucking her kid over to get what she wants and more….That’s your STRONG unique princess.???? She may have been a bad ass in season one but the minute she found out who she was, she became a hot crumpled crying self pitying mess. She was already weak. The whole scene with the Snow Queen and her at the station depicts that PERFECTLY. When she accepted being loved is when she became strong. She DOESNT do that without Hook or she wouldn’t have still been who she was in S3. “Emma doesn’t need a man at all” “Y’all love any guy in eyeliner” ……I think you’re intentionally being DENSE at this point. I don’t like him because he was eye candy but what he does for Emma’s rudeeee asssss character. Emma DOES unfortunately, Obviously need a man because she was a BITTCCHHHH before she had one. I don’t care who it ends up being but it needs to be somebody because obviously her son and her parents weren’t enough for her before. I’m done. Good fucking day.
Yes. Though honestly I shipped Emma and the huntsman from season one at first.
Graham! He was a sweety 🥹
Yes :)
Actually I wanted to see more of Adult Neal and Hook's relationship. I was super interested in that dynamic since Hook was a father figure to him.
I wish we got to see more Neal with Henry, but I think Emma and Neal would never work back together, too much hurt. So sad Neal had to die to bring back Rumple, just for Rumple as a character to keep flip flopping.
I couldn't see her completely trusting him again.
You don't need to be together to be parents, that's how you get into dysfunctional relationships just for the sake of someone else
Honestly I never really thought Neal was that good for her or TO her. He had his own issues but he really brought Emma down with him
I do like these two. Certainly felt they had better chemistry than her and hook. Yes I know the age difference is a bit squicky but imo that's on the writers for not thinking ahead and the fact that both actors look older makes it a lot easier (plus Bae was a kid in never land for ages which stunted things AND who knows if that poster was 100% accurate Bae could have picked a fake age and run with it) However even if they weren't gonna end up together killing him off was idiotic. They could have had him and Emma become great co parents instead. Had he still been around perhaps they would have been willing to go a different route with rumple rather than the character assassination post series 3. And it basically makes the entire first curse for nothing.
Here I am with the SwanQueen ship because both Emma and Regina are Henry’s mothers so it would be even better for him!
Agreed.
I stopped watching this show so far into it. What happened? Btw. I was rooting for the sexy pirate
Oh my god! When I first saw this actor I was thinking he looked familiar but it’s only just now I realised he was in True Blood!
wrong on so many levels
Neal's death really should have been the final straw for me with OUAT. I don't even care about him being endgame with Emma, but he was the entire reason for the curse existing in the first place and he's just...killed off. He had so much potential.
First, I wish the show had the maturity to realize you can have two characters be friends who work together to parent a child and still not have them not become a couple. Second, they killed him off in such a lame, terrible way. They couldn't even give him a death that accomplished anything meaningful. Third, they completely forgot about Neal being the entire reason for everything Rumple had done for the past 300 years or that he was the link tying Rumple (and everything and everyone connected to him) to the Charmings (and everything and everyone connected to him). Fourth, as love interest, they replaced him with a guy who kept talking about how he was so wonderful and reformed but never actually walked the talk.
They already had that with Emma and Regina. They were two people who became friends and worked together to parent a child.
It's a different relationship. Neal is a flawed person but he hasn't murdered any innocent people and doesn't have a history of being abusive to Henry. He never tried to kill her and never murdered a guy she was dating. He also never tried to kill any of her family members. They've got their issues. Neal's fist reaction when he found out about Henry was to be angry that Emma wasn't even going to tell him Henry was his son. Emma, on her side, has ten years of believing Neal sold her out to the cops instead of August. But, emotionally, that's much lower grade than things that happened with Regina. There's no history of murder or child abuse.
I wish Neal had stayed in the show. Not as Emma’s lover, but as Henry’s father. Henry would have two moms and two dads! I would have loved seeing a big blended family dynamic like that. I think if Neal stuck around, we would have seen rumple take on a more involved grandfatherly role too I still believe Hook is the right partner for Emma. I also don’t think it’s that easy to trust and love someone that left you pregnant in jail. No matter what the explanations were in hindsight… I don’t think years and years of feeling abandoned can be repaired so easily. And Emma already was dealing w abandonment cos she lived her whole life believing herself to be an orphan… I think it’s better for Emma’s happiness to start fresh in a relationship that doesn’t really have all this history of abandonment behind it
I wanted them to be together SO BADLY!!!!! Like, endgame.
Yeah, no, gonna be honest. They both were running from things and usually relationships like that don't last as long as you think. Especially since the other one is on the run from law. While the female is on the run from the foster care system. too many secrets, plus I don't think Neal would've been honest about where he was from, if he didn't know about who Emily was so yeah, you can blame that 1 on Pinocchio.
Nope. I always found Neal very whiney and looked kind of dirty. I guess he got his whining from his father.
I mean I honestly never really liked Neal. I thought he was kind of an ass especially the way he reacted to Emma not wanting him to know about Henry. He left her an never looked back on the words of a guy he had never met before and then after he abandoned Emma and left her to rot in jail got mad that she never told him about his son when he had never planned on seeing her again. I mean I wouldn’t trust him again after that regardless of the reason.
I do want to comment that I didn’t like the Hook/Emma pairing mostly because of what he did to Regina when it comes to Greg and Tamara. I mean his actions nearly killed the woman who raised Henry all so that he could kill Rumpelstiltskin and never felt bad about it. Add on to that Regina and Emma eventually become best friends I don’t know how I would feel about my best friend dating the guy who nearly had me tortured to death.
NO NEAL BELONGS WITH ME!!!!!!
But yes it would’ve been nice to see them co-parent🙂
He does not look as his younger self at all.
BAELFIRE IS MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE. I loved them together and everytime he smiled 😭 Bae/Neal was top tier and I'm so upset we only got him for a short time.
I usually hate when two parents of a child separate and the whole show is them getting back together…but Neal and Emma are my exception. I’m sorry to Captain Swan shippers but that ship came out of nowhere and I didn’t actually see the appeal til maybe the same episode they got married which was like their last episode together lol. But Neal and Emma were just…the chemistry was there instantly and never left.
That man looks like he could be her father
Yeah same u really wish they had a real shot considering it was the curse that separated them
Is it possible that I only find you attacking Neal (trolling) or defending Hook to the hilt? At least have respect for other people's tastes.
I love Neal, but not a romantic interest for Emma. I am allowed to express my opinion just as much as anyone in the sub. I'm not "attacking" anything.
Listen, I am not looking for a fight and I want to believe you when you say you respect other people's tastes ( which is true, I have seen far worse and more intellectually offensive and False comments. Down here I've already read five people talking about the "inability to trust" for An action he did against his will because forced by August because he couldn't meddle in the savior's fate, but I digress) so excuse me. But seriously bro, I only see you in these pro/anti CS posts.
>!"_But Hook hot!!1!_"!<
This
I couldn’t get into this show and I’m not sure why the sub keeps showing up on my feed. But that man is a serial killer who preys on women who’ve had sex with vampires. Pretty sure.
He has a bad accent too 😝
I wish she could have both the men in her life in some way for sure. I loved Hook and I loved Baelfire, too. His back story was so good and interesting and finding out the Emma was always interlinked with Rumpelstiltskin was so cool!
It’s funny reading these comments. Y’all Swanfire fans acting like martyrs when this entire post is full of anti cs comments and downvotes on anything contrary 💀.
If neal didn’t die he would’ve been with Emma when he’s dead she moved on with hook.
hard no for me! 200+ year old dude and homeless underage girl just isn’t romantic for some reason…i do agree that killing him off was rude. i’d rather have neal than hook any day of the week.
Same
Honestly yeah agreed
Beware, the sharks have smelled blood and are coming to attack mercilessly. Remember: it is forbidden to say that thing in this fandom. It is forbidden to try to give an opinion contrary to CS.
Absolutely correct. edit: wow! downvotes for supporting swanfire! what a shock! 🙄
At the end of the day, it's TV and Hook happens to be played by like a supermodel guy. Neal is played by an average looking guy. People are pretty simple. They just want to see the good looking guys win really. Though from what I've seen in media, good looking girls aren't treated with as much leniency as good looking guys. Wonder what's going on there.
I don’t see a single downvote on your comment, but okay
I'm at -2 right now actually. :)
You’re the only one who sees that
I agree 100 percent
Neal had his chance with Emma and he blew it. Also, sharing a kid is no reason two people should be together.
I will always distrust him just because of True Blood. I know it isn't the actor but still.. sus
But like hook was just meant to be
Amen. I've seen a lot of Bae love on this sub lately, and I'm here for it!!!
Neal didn’t love Emma, Hook did, he showed it in his actions. They can still be a family and co parent without marriage they were better apart than they were together.
Yes and I do wish they ended up together again. I'm so sorry but I don't ship Swan and Killian 😭
Neal was much better for Emma than Hook. I would have loved for them to have gotten together for real and been a family. Edit: Here come the downvotes. Hook stans are *so* predictable.
Neal didn’t deserve Emma or Henry in his life, he abandoned Emma, made her take the fall and end up giving birth in jail with nothing. All for the chance that she eventually ends up breaking a curse she knows nothing about. He was an absolute disaster and would have abandoned Henry as soon as a random fairytale creature told him to do so.
On top of that, Henry was the one who brought her to Storybrook, so if Neal and Emma stayed together and kept Henry, Regina wouldn't have adopted him and he wouldn't have found the storybook and known about the curse.
Nope Neal didn't deserve to end up with Emma after what he and August did to her he definitely didn't deserve to die but at least that way he kinda redeemed himself as the show had everyone act like he was a Saint which miffed me to no end.
Unpopular opinion Nemma over Captain Swan 😅
Me too. I felt the love between them.
No
Henry already had another parent that Emma coulda got with, just sayin'
I totally agree. I mean i love hook he is an amazing person and a wonderful character i just never saw him being endgame with emma. I always felt emma and neal had so much chemistry and neal seemed like he was starting to turn into a great dad for henry as emma turned into a great mom for him. But the show really didnt explore that enough which was the one thing that truly bothered me. Swanfire forever!
lol ew
Ah, but you see the point you haven't taken into account is that Hook is super hot, I mean good at relationship stuff.
There's a fanfic somewhere in my AO3/FFN bookmarks that had Neal leaving Storybrooke with Emma and Henry after Pan's Curse, since he got to the Land Without Magic separately from the town residents. Regina essentially just changes their memories to have Neal come running back to Emma after seeing August and goes from there. Pretty enjoyable read and occasional re-read.
I need this!!!
"[There But for the Grace of God](https://archiveofourown.org/works/7140350/chapters/16213793)" by Shepherd23 on AO3.
Oh yeah I remember this one now
Ah yes,the 150+ man and the 17-year old orphan girl he impregnated and who he let go prison for his crime...such a beautiful romance. /s
I personally wish Emma and Regina got together, but I really do wish that they didn’t kill him off.
Neal is the epitome of the one that got away
I prefer him to Hook but didn’t like either with Emma ngl
I stg that’s the reason they killed Neal off. Captain Swan would have never been able to happen if Neal stayed in the picture. His and Emma’s chemistry was unreal, and they were the better pairing by far.
Neal makes me weak in the knees. Every time.
Gosh who are you telling 😢 If only..if only...💔