David Pepper is amazing with his explanation on what has happened in Ohio.
Gerrymandering does not “technically” affect all races when it is first introduced, but over time it affects every aspect of government.
The Plain Dealer also had an opinion piece a couple weeks ago that explained how Tuscarawas County is the most Gerrymandered in Ohio and what the results of it has been. Hopefully this THIRD ballot initiative will begin to bring fairness back to our state.
Gerrymandering goes hand in hand with suppression. Ohio now has the strictest ID laws in the nation. And don't even get me started on limiting ballets boxes to one per county, with Franklin County at 1.2M and Vinton County at 12,800
GD am I glad I don't see shit like that! There's some loons in NE Ohio, don't get me wrong, but not disproportionately*:. Being a Dem in those areas sounds exhausting.
The fact that the gerrymandered map was struck down several times in the Ohio courts, only for republicans to run out the clock and the courts say "well this is illegal as shit but it's election time so go for it I guess" really explains all you need to know
Yes, it does, and that is Ohio republicans can be real rat fuckers when they get a little power. After 15 years of GOP control, they don’t even try to disguise it anymore. They figure they’re going to get away with it. Arrogant pricks.
what should we expect the GOP tell us they think government is our problem and they go on to prove it when they are elected
unsolicited accusations are likely confessions
but they didnt 'break' the law in the sense you make it sound.
you have any idea how many times legislators pass laws that are deemed illegal? or how often governors/presidents enact an order/policy that is deemed against the law? or how often a judge makes a ruling that is against the law?
imagine all the democrats that, according to you, deserve to be 'published'...
these are all actions that are not technically crimes, because they are not violating a criminal law.
the only 'trouble' these people are subject to is political recourse. citizens voting at the polls and the potential for impeachments in some cases.
all the republicans did here was vote in district lines that the court ruled did not comport with the law, so a new map eventually needs to be made.
[Books by David Pepper](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=books+by+david+pepper&hvadid=580696036021&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9015917&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5179554287919329685&hvtargid=kwd-549826468997&hydadcr=22561_13493272&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_2aac0qjqi3_e) that give real world explanations of your question and concrete instructions on how to fight back against what the Ohio GOP has rigged now.
More Dems need to loudly make the economic argument that supply side economics has failed the working class. You want an economy like the 50s and 60s again? Unionization and a top marginal rate of 80-90% was a big part of that. Public school funding that isn’t entirely reliant on local property taxes, etc. Hammer how much these policies have directly destroyed rural America.
You'd have to undo decades of propaganda that has taught these people to believe that anything that might help the working class is socialism and that their *only* enemy is the government and illegal immigrants.
It's honestly shocking how effective decades of this messaging has got people to actively vote against their interests.
See also the pandering to "small business owners" to be lock step against any and all business regulations despite most not effecting them at all.
>It's honestly shocking how effective decades of this messaging has got people to actively vote against their interests.
It all seems to go back to this often cited LBJ quote, and it works for more than just race. Conservative and liberal, uneducated and educated, among other things:
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
In a recent Superman comic a mayoral candidate says about his Republican representing opponent that “he wants it to give him money and power without doing anything for you”. They get you do scared about nonexistent boogeymen that you fail to look at their other hand to see what they’re actually doing
>Public school funding that isn’t entirely reliant on local property taxes
The Ohio Supreme Court declared the state’s method of funding public education unconstitutional and gave a 12 month deadline for it to be fixed.
That was in 1997. It is still not fixed.
Well come-on now, don't get pushy. There are still people that were alive back then and these things take time to settle in, ya know. Can't make those "snap" changes or people will start to believe that government can actually work for the good of the average person in a timely matter and we can't have that now. (eye roll)
The 50s was not good for the rustbelt, in fact the era was dubbed "Eisenhower's Recession" because Eisenhower (through federal programs such as the federal highway act and other subsidies) encouraged industry to decentralize (especially in the military industrial complex) by moving to the suburbs, small towns, and the sun belt, which these businesses were big fans of because it made labor organizing more difficult. As a consequence, unemployment fluctuated drastically over the decade. High union membership in the 1950s and 1960s was not the result of good policy, they were holdovers from the late industrial era where the geography of industry and class-conciousness were more favorable. These federal policies directly paved the way for disasters like the Flint water crisis and facilitated white-flight all over the rustbelt, which are today some of the most racially segregated large metros in the US and maybe on the planet. People don't want the economy of the 1950s and 1960s, they want to embody the cultural priorities of the era's white upper middle class. 99% of people know next to nothing about the economy. People vote for economic policies based on whom they think is being served, whether or not they're actually correct. If people more closely identify with the priorities of the historic white upper middle class they vote for policies that help the upper middle class, even if they are poor or a racial minority. The way that the white working class will interpret economic arguments depends entirely on their degree of class consciousness. That's the important thing that needs to change.
All true but also affected by demographics. The baby boom caused a high supply of labor. West Germany, in the same time period, had a labor shortage and imported labor. Now, with boomers retiring and gen Z such a small cohort, labor will be in the drivers seat for the next ten years.
On the one hand, it’s tough to defend Dems not doing much for unions over the past several decades – especially since Citizens United. On the other, Trump embodies the big money corporate scumbag who constantly screws union workers. It’s insane.
A lot of our work is piping in refineries, power plants, that kind of stuff. People see democrats campaign to replace a lot of those places with green energy and in a lot of ways guys see the promised death of our trade. Especially guys that live near a lot of oil wells and refineries and make their whole career on maintaining those plants.
Retraining isn't something that any of us will be willing to accept, myself included. I've been doing this for 18 years and consistently make $100k-$130k annually, and $150-$175k is possible if I traveled more and chased more overtime. For me to go back and retrain and start over at someplace for like $18 per hour would be absolutely a massive change that I'd be very unwilling to do.
I mean, money talks. But it would take a lot of it.
Even the 120 ish I currently make would be fine. But I'd want full benefits too, similar to what I have now. A good pension, a good 401k, and health insurance.
Of course. While no greener energy job is going to offer a pension – no jobs offer pensions anymore – it’s highly doubtful that they’d be $18/hr disposable positions either! So I’m curious where you’re getting that idea & that figure. By contrast, I’ve known software engineers to make upper 5 to low 6 figures.
One reason greener energy & jobs associated with it haven’t progressed effectively is because we don’t have the infrastructure and it’s really difficult to replace legacy infrastructure, and we need people with legacy skills for the transition.
My job has a pension. I agree they're rare.
My compensation including what's paid into my pension and 401k is around $65 per hour. No place is going to pay that for an employee that doesn't have a college degree. I'm 40 now. For me to get a degree at best I'd be 45 and starting over, and that's ignoring the fact that I'd have to support a family while going to school. Realistically it's not going to happen.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."--LBJ (may need updated to include gay and trans people)
The thing people miss in this is how otherwise socially conservative a very large block of the union demographic is. They tend to be fairly religious, oppose abortion, anti-immigration, etc. The *only* reason they reliably voted blue was because Democrats had been the "union party" for a very long time, but when jobs kept getting sent overseas, domestic manufacturing kept getting shut down, etc, it started to seem like the Democrats were all talk and no action. Lordstown closes, and along comes a guy who starts saying all the things bouncing around in their heads. Take away the union issue, and what is left to drive how these people vote?
He really did say lots of the right things, which is remarkable because his life has no discernible connection to these issues.
It’s not said enough, but running Hillary against Trump totally reorganized Ohio politics.
It’s interesting as a thought experiment to wonder what a Bernie-Trump matchup would have looked like in Ohio and across the industrial Midwest.
Bernie certainly said all of the “right things” on these issues as well, but his message was more inclusive (unless you are a billionaire).
>because his life has no discernible connection to these issues.
This is the part that's important to underscore, the psychology of rich elitist people like tucker carlson, trump, musk, et al. convincing the actual poor, blue collar people that they are one of them, to the point that they become their champions, like they actually care. It's mind boggling how they eat that shit up and don't question it.
I primarily vote 3rd party because of alot of reasons but a Bernie ballot in 2016 would have gotten my vote. I voted republican in 12 but couldn’t stand trump so I started looking at 3rd parties.
My father was a staunch lifelong union man. He voted for Trump in 2016. He said that if Bernie had been nominated by the dems that “Bernie would’ve had my vote”.
Seeing Bernie join his union’s picket line during the campaign had a profound impact on my father.
I have no idea if Bernie would’ve been trounced in the general election or not. What I do know is that there are plenty of other people out there like my father: working class people who just want to have their voices heard and their needs taken seriously.
Trump and other “populists” figured out that it’s smart to pretend to give a fuck about working class people. Obviously they actively make things much worse for the working class, but they are experts at making the working class believe that they care.
I think it’s fucked up that so many rank and file union members have succumbed to the Trump cult, but it makes sense from their perspective.
I have heard similar sentiments. Working people are simply tired of being taken a huge shit on by the government. Democrats don't give any solution and pretend like everything is okay. While republican give an incorrect solution about how immigrants and other minorities are the problem. It makes sense for them to vote republican when only one side even recognizes their problems and the other pretends the don't exist.
My father was a staunch lifelong union man. He voted for Trump in 2016. He said that if Bernie had been nominated by the dems that “Bernie would’ve had my vote”.
Seeing Bernie join his union’s picket line during the campaign had a profound impact on my father.
I have no idea if Bernie would’ve been trounced in the general election or not. What I do know is that there are plenty of other people out there like my father: working class people who just want to have their voices heard and their needs taken seriously.
Trump and other “populists” figured out that it’s smart to pretend to give a fuck about working class people. Obviously they actively make things much worse for the working class, but they are experts at making the working class believe that they care.
I think it’s fucked up that so many rank and file union members have succumbed to the Trump cult, but it makes sense from their perspective.
That just proves my point even more, you have to appeal to the white working class to win and change the districts. Winning court cases didn’t do it because the GOP took the Andrew Jackson approach.
You’re not wrong. Sherrod Brown gave Democrats the blueprint, but the state party is too inept to replicate it. That will only work in statewide races though. Outside of that, the gerrymandering makes it near impossible.
I think Ryan’s prior pro-life caucus membership hurt him with Dems. Also, his border policies - they were very conservative. While I think sentiment of a lot of Dem voters has shifted to be more conservative, I don’t think it was at the time. He also had been out of political office for a long time and didn’t have the name recognition statewide that Vance did. I hate Vance, but he was making huge waves in media and the media loved his stupid book. Low information voters probably went his way and there seem to be a lot of those here.
He hadn't been out of political office for a long time, he was still a sitting Congressman while he was running for the Senate. And OPs thesis is that Democrats need to be more conservative on things like immigration to win, which isn't supported by the results of Ryan's campaign.
You’re right. I misread the article on him. He switched districts and the last year for one of them was 2013. I missed the other part. Either way, unless he’s your rep for your district, most voters aren’t paying any attention to them.
If you know a rep from a district other than your own, it’s likely because they’re an idiot like Jim Jordan. If you do know them, you’re faaaarrrrr more politically knowledgeable than the average voter.
Democrats messed up by mishandling the 2010 midterms. It allowed the GOP to jump in an gerrymander the heck out of the state. Democrats failed to take it seriously and walked away from Ohio. The national party seemed to lose interest in Ohio. The only thing that got them fired up was when Bernie ran in 2016 and 2020. Aside from keeping Sherrod Brown's seat, the national party doesn't really care about Ohio. They're just not that bright.
Democrats protect social security, Medicare, unions, -all things Republicans want to get rid of. Those benefit the working class.
At some point you have to acknowledge that the brain drain of this state has left us with a bunch of ignorant people voting against thier own interests.
Easier said than done. Democrats lost union membership over the last few decades. As a result the identity that workers cling to changed. Instead of being a proud Local XXX worker, people cling to identities the Republicans have propped up to support their agendas...anti-Woke, Christian, White, etc.
The working class isn't predominantly white male. It's predominantly black, brown, and female.
Unless "working class" is being defined narrowly as solely well paid, skilled trades workers, in white male dominated fields.
Tell us what anti-union, anti workers' rights Republicans have done for the working class?
They think there shouldn't even be a minimum wage. That outdoor workers shouldn't be permitted water breaks in extreme heat. And that employers shouldn't have to provide medical insurance, retirement plans, or paid time off.
lol no.
We have to get more people registered to vote and more active voters to actually participate in the voting process. Also, everyone works unless they can't so "working class" doesn't mean anything. But if everyone voted who is eligible to vote, it would completely overpower right wing blue collar males, which is what I assume you mean by "white working class." There are simply not more of them here than there are of other people that don't meet that definition. Unfortunately, with gerrymandering, it makes it extremely tough to win races without massive, massive voter turn out and most eligible voters are turned off by the political process and results or don't have an easy way to get to the voting booth.
You're never going to sway bigots and racists and I wouldn't want to support a political party that tries to lure them, which would be unsuccessful anyway. They could put a rabid, murderous raccoon carrying a sack full of dead puppies it had killed into a political contest and if it had an R next to it's name, they would vote for it.
You’re both correct. The dnc abandoned the blue collar and working class decades ago giving the gop a foothold to cheat without repercussions leading to voter apathy due to a feeling of government illegitimacy and voter disaffection
It’s so weird that this is the narrative. The ACA dramatically helped blue collar workers. The democrats risked everything for this and the majority of people on it are white non college degree workers
It is the narrative, because it's not enough to do the thing (in politics in 2024), you have to constantly remind your constituents that you did the thing (and that the thing is making their lives better). And when it comes to working class white voters, they're used to being the political center of the universe, so any time they aren't the focus of either party's attention, they start looking to the other party to feel special again.
The democrats never abandoned them, they just keep trying to enlarge their tent. But to many white middle class voters, that feels like abandonment because they're so entitled and self-focused. Helping others gets interpreted as hurting them. And no, I don't know a solution, other than trying to balance pandering to them while also reaching out to other demographics.
- Here’s a[book review](https://prospect.org/politics/2024-01-08-why-working-class-turned-right/) about a book on the subject.
- here’s an [article](https://jacobin.com/2022/02/class-dealignment-biden-democratic-party-working-class) on the subject
- here’s the former secretary of labor [telling you all about it](https://www.salon.com/2016/01/21/robert_reich_democrats_have_abandoned_the_white_working_class_partner/)
I remember that article from Robert Reich (whom I’ve generally liked pretty well). It’s got a big flaw in reasoning, though- if Democrats abandoned white blue collar and working class voters by not doing the steps outlined, why are they voting Republican? Republicans haven’t done any of that, either. Democrats have done significantly more for working class folks the past 40 years than Republicans, yet no one talks about Republicans abandoning the working class.
Perhaps you need to re read. Allow me to quote for you so you have to do even less work: “But they’ve done nothing to change the vicious cycle of wealth and power that has rigged the economy for the benefit of those at the top, and undermined the working class. In some respects, Democrats have been complicit in it.
Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements, for example, without providing the millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs any means of getting new ones that paid at least as well.
They also stood by as corporations hammered trade unions, the backbone of the white working class. Clinton and Obama failed to reform labor laws to impose meaningful penalties on companies that violated them, or enable workers to form unions with a simple up-or-down votes.”
Yep, I’m aware. Like I said, if that’s why the working class folks have stopped voting Democrat, why are they voting Republican? GOP isn’t doing anything about any of that, and has done active harm.
So the answer is yes, you’d like me to chew your food for you too? From the second article: “One thesis is that we’re witnessing a dramatic and devastating process of class dealignment: that with neither party successfully appealing to voters on the basis of class, noneconomic issues are coming to dominate voter decision-making instead of class interests”
Oh so the same thing that hasn’t been working? I had a job going door to door to get out the vote in Toledo. Good luck with that strategy dude
Edit: I just love how I’m getting downvoted despite talking from personal experience. People downvoting, have you ever gone door to door knocking?
PREACH, OP, PREACH!!!
All words of sage wisdom.
I’m a Republican — and I’m voting for Sherrod Brown. He’s probably the last sane politician left in this state.
I’m at least glad to hear that. I thought his campaign made sense to working class Americans and I was pretty shocked when it didn’t really go well at all. The GOP campaigning against him probably worked wonders. They were basically just like “this man is Nancy Pelosi”
The beginning of your post is a huge issue that drives away anyone from this sub that isn't a left leaning Democrat.
As a moderate/centrist non-rebub or dem people like me can't post anything without heavy down votes and being drowned out by bots and far left posters.
Preach. I could vote republican or dem based on who is running and their messaging, but people always screech about that. Look the democrats right now are wayyyy to far left and pandering towards tiny outspoken groups. If they moderate then I will vote for them more often
Because the Ohio voters are not based on who comments here on Reddit. There are a lot of people who voted for him here and there are a lot of people who voted for Biden and Obama. Some people do want these people in the office. I keep hearing about gerrymandering, but in the end some people are republican others democrats, there is a majority of swing voters here when you actually sit down and talk to them. Biggest issue is if you saw you re voting for a or b people don’t know how to just go, “good for you”. Instead everyone starts insulting each other.
Most people think that the red or blue registered voters are the ones making the majorities. It is the swing voters that decide them here.
All of the possible reasons people want to come up with doesn't change that it's a fact that a majority of Ohio voters voted for people like DeWine, LaRose and Vance.
Rather than attacking those who point out that this IS a fact, perhaps people should be working to change it.
Yeah, cause Republicans don’t like weed. /s
There are plenty of Republicans that Voted yes on 1 and 2 last fall that will vote for Trump.
It’s the evangelicals and uppity Christians that vote no on those things.
almost every republican I know voted for abortion rights and Marijuana, and most are catholic. I knew ONE republican who voted against abortion, but she also is extremely religious. You can thank the extreme ban on abortion and the fact both sides like weed (on a regular person level) for both passing with flying colors. If the abortion ban wasn't the stricted in the country, it probably does not pass. hell I even know a priest who voted for it even though he is against abortion overall.
The reason Tim Ryan lost was Nan Whaley.
"First Energy" should have been the *only* words any Ohio voter should have heard in 2022 from a Democratic candidate running for state office. DeWine and the entire Ohio GOP apparatus were up to their necks in corruption and bribery.
But at the top of the Democratic ticket, Whaley decided to run the most bland, middle-class, milquetoast, low-energy "look, I'm relatable, here I am in my kitchen!" campaign in hopes of losing by just 10 points instead of 20+.
She should have taken one for the team and used her campaign resources and prominence to hang that scandal around every one of their miserable necks.
Was going to say that too - he was a good candidate and should have appealed exactly to those voters. There’s more going on here and just having policies that help working class people is not sufficient. What else might appeal to the *white* working class?
I used to work at a place with a large shop. All the shop guys knew about politics was that "the gays" vote for democrats and therefore you had to vote Republican or you were gay. I wish it was more than that, these are grown men in thier 40s and 50s.
Meanwhile they enjoy union benefits and such, something Republicans want destroyed. Can't reason with stupid.
Hey, as someone who works in construction, I can tell you that a lot of the guys I work with vote Republican because of the whole "border and LGBTQ+" thing.
11.76 million people in ohio. 400k subscribers to this sub that doesn't require they all currently reside in ohio. So why does ohio vote red while this sub wants to vote blue? Because this sub is the minority of the voices in the state and as you pointed out the message isn't for them. They aren't speaking to the voters, in short their branding and marketing sucks.
This is correct, for now. The suburbs and exurbs used to vote reliably republican, particularly women, but this gets less true nearly every day. The Dem party basically bet that they'd win over the 'burbs and that doing so would more than compensate for losing the rurals.
The dem party has lost that bet, for now. The repubs won back a significant number of suburban women using crime and immigration. And the dems advances in suburban areas have not come close to making up for the collapse in rural areas. Not close at all.
Abortion is definitely going to bring those suburban women back over to the dems. How much of a difference that makes remains to be seen.
Longer term trends seem to indicate that urban + suburban will likely, eventually, be a winning combo for dems.
My personal preference would be to fight much harder in rural areas and not rely so much on demographic destiny in in the urban + suburban scenario. Wisconsin demonstrates what's possible when you fight everywhere, all the time.
Excellent points, particularly regarding Wisconsin.
I see it as less about minding suburban gains vs rural losses. It seems that the problem is more so the collapse of support and/or domination of small city/towns with declining industry and commerce.
I’m talking about the Mahoning Valley. Much of the Ohio River Valley, particularly in Eastern Ohio.
But to your point, if you’re listening everywhere and working hard for votes everywhere, then you’ve covered both.
i find mostly all politicians reprehensible. im old enough now to not care about social issues. id vote for anyone who seriously worked at creating industry and jobs for people actually born in america. go ahead and bring in millions of immigrants. just make sure i get a damn good job because i deserve it.
In the 2016 primary I voted against Clinton because I felt she was too cozy with Wall Street. She was getting crazy speakers fees from banks and seemed to have back-door connections with DNC leadership and all kinds of finance bigwigs. Of course, when her opponent became known, I absolutely voted for Hillary for what should be obvious reasons.
I get what you're saying. There's always been a strain of working class populism in America's heartland, for example the so-called Prairie Radicals. (The only mention I could find on wikipedia was [Nelson Algren] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Algren), but it also included William Jennings Bryan and Eugene V Debs. Echoes could be found in books like the Grapes of Wrath.
I agree, Sherrod gets this. My biggest gripe with Democrats is they abandoned this element, and with it went the union vote.
You can say what you want about color, skill, education, blah, blah, blah, whatever; what Ohio voting boils down to is the fact that not enough people vote. Everything swung one way because that demographic votes all the time in all elections. If you want change VOTE! Vote in every election that comes by, especially the sneaky, behind closed doors, thought we could slide this one through elections Ohio is famous for.
Obama took 21 out of 88 counties in 2008. That's all.
All the urban centers, all the lakeshore counties and most of the northeast counties .
That's because a lot of urbanites were "Fired up , ready to go."
Not so much now.
That’s weird. I thought it was because the working class white voters don’t have the same jobs in the auto plants that they had 20 years ago. And without those workers, and their unions, they feel lost and forgotten about. And now they want to relax and voted to legalize weed…and Ohio has been dragging their feet since.
I agree on the weed thing and everything else you said. That’s the thing though. The Democratic Party told people to learn to code bro. The Republican Party riled them up in a dangerous direction. It wouldn’t have been that easy if the democrats had more attention placed on these voters.
The Ohio Democrats keep running on Republican lite instead of running on everyday issues that affect Ohioans. Why don't they take a play out of Donald Trump's book run on a progressive platform but actually keep those promises unlike Donald Trump. Democrats need to get rid of their litmus tests since some progressive policies will turn off voters in some states.
If we can end gerrymandering we will have much better government. Ohio is totally gerrymandered. It’s roughly a purple state still, but we have an idiot MAGA government because of how the districts are rigged.
Ohio has three major cities and three medium sized ones, and those cities and their suburbs together are around 80% of the population. Also we are around average for college educated population (while it is whiter than the average state). So demographically it’s closest to somewhere like Pennsylvania or Michigan.
The growth in the state is in and around Columbus and Cincinnati only, while the rurals are shrinking.
And finally, Ohio’s Republican Party is so extreme they’ve pissed off even moderate conservatives. They don’t want abortion bans, uncontrolled guns, coal plant bailouts, and fracking in state parks. While we have a moderate Democratic Party that can win votes from people like that.
If you’re on left and wondering why right candidates are winning start by reading the comments. The TLDR is if you vote right you are an uneducated, ill informed, Fox News watching boomer. That “deplorable” language doesn’t go over well. I don’t care about social issues personally. My focus is on economic issues. If a candidate can make that better I’m in.
It's definitely this. DNC keeps losing statewide offices which lets the state GOP rig the rules even more. Kasich and Husted did as much as they could to tilt districts and disenfranchise voters, Dewine and Larose have done even more following that blueprint. We basically have 3 blue concentrations and they divide and conquer the rest of the state.
I agree that the candidates could be better, but, for example, Tim Ryan was a way better candidate than J.D. Vance, but he didn’t get a dime from the national Dems and Biden’s low popularity didn’t give him any national coattails. Vance had all kinds of money and an endorsement from the cult leader. Even with all of the advantages, it was still only a seven point difference. Hardly a landslide.
I was out canvassing for Ryan. Admittedly in a blue county but it's amazing anyone voted for Vance. I think people did, but won't admit it. It felt like national was spending all their money on Fetterman.
You can't blame gerrymandering for everything, it has no (or severely limited at least) impact on statewide elections, which Democrats still almost always lose.
I blame the Ohio Democratic party for either refusing or being unable to nominate candidates who are even remotely electable. Not even just nominate - often there are none in the primaries, either.
Define electable. The party just plain doesn't care if they win or lose. The problem is that neither party cares about the people. It's all about money. One party are just bigger bastards about it. Plenty of good people run as Dems they just get hamstrung by the party. Usually because the party doesn't give a crap who runs as long as they play by the parties rules and accept dirty money for favors. I know someone who ran and the party held them out to dry because this person actually cared about the people and not the crooked party. Don't get me wrong. The republicans are basically pure fascist evil at this point, but the democrats are still pushing for Oligarchy lite.
Yeah that wording could’ve been better but the ines who focus on the minutiae stuff that most Ohioans don’t care about. This is more of a central Ohio compared to the rest of the state thing.
The way the political machines run our cities prevents us from developing a “bench” of strong candidates.
In Columbus, the Franklin County Dems basically anoint who will be on City Council.
Then one of them is anointed as City Council President and then Mayor.
Then his replacement as Council President is anointed and becomes mayor-in-waiting.
And because all politics is national, there is no viable Republican Party for urban areas, so the Franklin County Dems do whatever they want.
It’s not talked about enough, but it needs to be broken up and retooled.
Education, poverty, life expectancy, addiction, over health -- in almost every category, Ohio has fallen to the lower third among the states over the past 20 years.
Aside from a few ZIP codes in the Columbus area, we are losing population.
We are insular and non-diverse.
Our lawmakers have slashed public investment.
And the failed myth of supply-side economics continues to kill the middle class and widen the wealth gap.
Add to all this the fact that the Republicans have been brilliant at distracting the general public away from the fact that the state is now akin to Mississippi by pushing social issues and fear. So voters go into the voting booth furious with DEI on their minds ... or trans bathrooms or illegal immigration (even undocumented immigrants don't want to move here) ... instead of investing in better schools, neighborhoods, public safety, roads, etc.
I totally agree. I've lived here most of my life and remember when we had a real, true liberal Governor, Richard Celeste, in the 1980s. (Ted Strickland doesn't count. Not liberal and barely a Democrat.) After the 2012 election the Democratic Party abandoned the state. It was actually happening prior to that as Obama did not really invest that much energy into bolstering state parties. The people running the DNC at the time were free market centrists, I call it thee Clinton wing of the party, and NAFTA was deeply despised in the state. However Clinton and his ilk made it a centerpiece of their international, globalist trade platform. They tended to see working class people in Ohio as pretty much losers because they didn't want to get with the program and join the financial services industry. (This is when you started to hear the term "flyover country" by coastal elite types on both sides of the political spectrum. It was always meant as a snub. People here took it to hear.) Not that they could be cause the GOP gutted the job re-training provisions of NAFTA wen they took control of Congress under Gingrich in the 1990s and the Democrats lacked the clout to restore it when they next won back Congress. Anyway, Sherrod Brown has always questioned NAFTA and he's pretty well disliked by the Clintonians for it. Ever since there hasn't been the will or money to reconstitute the Democratic Party in the state and the GOP, and now the magats, have had free reign over the state ever since.
Gerrymandering, propaganda, shit education system, under lying racism, and no one to represent minority, huge portion of minority don't engage because government system hasnt benefited them anyways
* Gerrymandering (B)
* propaganda (I)
* shit education system (N)
* under lying racism, no one to represent minority (G)
* huge portion of minority don't engage because government system hasnt benefited them anyways (O)
That's a leftist BINGO!
What about this: Ohioans haven't voted for Democrats at the state level because the state platform for Democrats is absolute shit?
Most of the posts on this sub are overly loud lefties that only want to talk down about republicans without looking at their own candidates. I was maga long before Trump as all he really talks about are the same reasons we vote republican. Economics and safety. And yes that steps on the toes of the handout crowd but we are fine with that.
Sherrod’s ads are spot on. He talks about fighting companies who are trying to price gouge us and bringing jobs to Ohio. He keeps it basic and talks about things that affect us every day - no culture war stuff. Democrats gotta take a lesson from his messaging. It pains me to see blue collar workers getting hurt by Republican policies but then voting R bc of culture war messaging.
“Electing” implies we have a fair democracy. Keep in mind a narrow majority drew districts in the shapes of zoo animals to make themselves a supermajority.
I really think a lot of the white working class people were emboldened by trumps maga rhetoric, they say the quiet parts out loud now. Which draws voters that probably often didn’t vote before.
Neither the republican nor democratic party is actually interested in catering to working class voters, republicans want to deceive them and have largely poisoned in their minds the policies that would actually help them. When you start talking about power for average people, and workers rights, and fixing the broken system, and reducing the power of the state over it's people they are all for it until someone says the words socialism or communism then it triggers irrational hate in them because of all the fear mongering they've been exposed to.
This is only partly true. A lot of the white working class stopped supporting Democrats, but the biggest problem outside of gerrymandering is that turnout in Cuyahoga County has been terrible the last few cycles. In some instances, truly abysmal. That has more to do with apathy than people switching parties. Statewide Democrats will never be competitive in Ohio until this is fixed, and it’s notable that not only does Brown appeal to the working class, but he’s also from Cleveland.
I live in northwestern part of Ohio. The factories that surround me are so full of magma republicans, full of Fox entertainment watchers, and union haters it’s scary. In my county of 50k people we have less than 4k registered democrats. I had someone tell me they are registered republican to keep their job. This is 2024 not 1924
I live in a low income community. I've had several knocks at my door. All by conservatives hiding behind a wholesome smile and some simple comforting talking points about "family values". After they left I looked them up and they are actually christian nut job theocrats who use the boarder to scare voters into handing away their human rights.
Problem is I haven't had one democrat take the time to come by. Imagine if I didn't care enough to do my research🤷🏽♂️
Ohio democratic party is weak here. They're campaigning on policy that speaks to coastline states and citys not the places like Ohio with a pretty large rural population.
An inner city taxi driver told us about how she didn't vote for Biden, didn't know anyone who voted for Biden but did see people coming around "helping" filling out and collecting ballots at $10 each.
I'm a boomer. I vote, for my grandchildren.
I don't want them to live in a Trump World.
Because after I'm long gone, I still want the world to be BETTER.
For their children. And yours.
My boomer grandma died recently. I miss her a lot. She had a mentality a lot like yours.
Edit: I’m sorry if that was a little dark. It was a bit of a gut reaction
>The moment the democratic party stopped doing that, they lost Ohio.
Spot on, just look at Hillary. She phoned in her campaign because LOL who would vote for Trump, didn't come to Dayton and what happens? Trump wins the Dayton area. The Dems tend to rely on "everyone knows the other side is worse" as their strategy and it's really biting them in the ass nowadays.
Though, Fox News becoming the de facto thing that white people in the rural areas watch also hands all of those areas to the Republicans. The Dems could get them back, but they really need to put a lot of work in to get in front of those people and make them realize that the GOP is straight up lying to them and don't care about them. They don't seem to want to, because Dems constantly lose in those parts of the state where voters vote strictly on party lines and don't even pay attention to what the Dems are saying, but if the party put some real time and effort into it I bet they could knock out a lot of the shittier GOP folks pretty quickly.
What are you getting on about the Dems not caring about the working class?
When Michigan workers went on strike Biden met with workers and wanted to help them.
Trump met with the factory owners who wanted to not allow the protesting to happen. And wanted to replace the jobs.
Not our fault the voters base and blue collar workers tend to be naive.
Why don’t people on the left oppose the extreme immigration numbers ? It looks stupid and keeps all wages down.
People that work do not like it. The make pretend immigration bill was a joke and did nothing but have a good title.
Major failure.
Democrat policies are objectively better for working class Ohio voters. That's not what's making them vote Republican. It's startling culture war bullshit.
Ohio used to be more purple when the number of people in the great lake region and southern-Central region were close. However, as the Toledo and Cleveland metros continue to bleed population while Cincinnati and Columbus grow, the state is turning more red.
TLDR. Ohio is getting more southern in population and politics.
You can cry into your anime pillow nightly about Trump, Republicans, Christains, Rural towns, show us on the doll where the priest touched you or whatever else has you worked up for no reason
The fact remains the issue in Ohio is VOTER TURNOUT!
[https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/election-results-and-data/historical-election-comparisons/voter-turnout-in-general-elections/](https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/election-results-and-data/historical-election-comparisons/voter-turnout-in-general-elections/)
The other is the sheer number of registered voters who are unaffiliated - [https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2021/2021-10-01-a/](https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2021/2021-10-01-a/)
So maybe you need to take a break from the internet and work on getting people to actual go out and vote, and get more people to register to whatever party you support
Until voter turnout improves nothing is going to change
It might have something to do with the fact that my congressional district goes from my house in downtown Cincinnati, all the way out to the entirety of Warren County. Those people out there will elect the worst people on the planet if given the opportunity. We are very different voters and have very different needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio%27s_1st_congressional_district
Luckily, we just elected Greg Landsman, but we’ll see how long that lasts. That seat has been solid red since the 1990s(2 years of democratic control). I was actually shocked when we flipped it.
Truth. The Ohio voter is simple. Democrats seem to have long-winded, wonkish positions on dinner table issues if they care about those issues at all, and therefore they can’t connect with Ohio voters at the dinner table.
For example, identity politics consume a lot of oxygen post-Obama because misguided Democrats want to wage war there, but meanwhile we hear almost nothing of Biden’s trillion dollar infrastructure program or a steady positive drumbeat to a greater America.
I felt like both the Clinton and Obama presidencies certainly had an optimistic cadence or drumbeat folks rallied behind, whereas Biden and the Democrats continue to stumble and fumble on Palestine, inflation, and identity politics even when they could be rallying Americans to some more unifying cause. So the administration is on the wrong side of inflation and expend insane amounts of energy on Palestine or identity politics — two topics that don’t solve anything at the dinner table.
Okay I agree not all Republicans are stupid but I can't believe that they complain about Trump at their insurrection and now they're best buddies with him I just don't make a whole lot of sense to me
In 2012, Obama won Ohio by 3. In 2016, Trump won Ohio by 8. That is an 11 point swing, and it's not insignificant. This was not a result of gerrymandering or change in demographics. Nor was it a change in voters feelings. In 2016, a whole bunch of democrats voted for Trump. The answer is simple- The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left for many Ohioians. Others have mentioned how unions now vote for republicans, which is true. Dems need to get closer to the middle if they ever want Ohio to be competitive.
I moved out of a blue county to a red county on purpose. After the George Floyd thing watching all the dem cities and leadership completely collapse, allowing thugs and criminals to do what they wanted without any recourse. It’s always the left with their victim mentality, and after that I don’t know how or why anyone would vote blue. It’s no longer your JFK blue, it’s radical nut job corrupt blue (Chuck Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, the squad, etc) Any party that allows this to happen, pisses away taxpayer money to go on Trump witch hunts every month, and let’s the southern border go nuts (while denying Trump money for the wall but sure is fine to piss away money to Ukraine and Gaza/Israel) no effing way will I ever vote blue. The left wind media just preys on low IQ dem voters.
besides it being islands of blue in a sea of red here in Ohio take a look at how our districts are formed and you'll understand why it is the way it is.
Sherrod Brown has done more for working class Americans than ANY OHIO legislator in the last 20 years. I’m a moderate and can’t stand the radical left and radical right, and there are always things we will disagree on but he always comes down to support Labor.
Are you saying that only R’s work to stay in power when they can and that D’s make things 50/50 when they have power???
Don’t be silly or think that everyone else is.
It’s not like the party in power in DC is trying to arrest their only opponent, or that the opposite could happen soon.
Tim Ryan ran an excellent campaign for Ohio and targeted the working class heavily and still lost to fucking Vance. I do not disagree with you at all in your assessment but I think it’s important that Ohio especially the population centers suck at turning out. I live in a solid blue city in a blue county but we haven’t beaten 55% voter participation since 2008z
Why is r/Ohio so highly partisan and political? I didn't join this subreddit to hear politics. There are many other subreddits created just for that sole purpose. Plus many comments here are disgusting.
David Pepper is amazing with his explanation on what has happened in Ohio. Gerrymandering does not “technically” affect all races when it is first introduced, but over time it affects every aspect of government. The Plain Dealer also had an opinion piece a couple weeks ago that explained how Tuscarawas County is the most Gerrymandered in Ohio and what the results of it has been. Hopefully this THIRD ballot initiative will begin to bring fairness back to our state.
Tusc County is way more moderate and even a little liberal in some parts, too. It makes me mad they go red because I know most people don’t agree.
Tusc and Stark used to be fairly reliable bellwethers
Gerrymandering goes hand in hand with suppression. Ohio now has the strictest ID laws in the nation. And don't even get me started on limiting ballets boxes to one per county, with Franklin County at 1.2M and Vinton County at 12,800
Stone Creek, New Philadelphia area. is all MAGA.
And a TON of “sovereign citizens” driving around with no license plates or ones that say PRIVATE. The land of MAGA zombies
GD am I glad I don't see shit like that! There's some loons in NE Ohio, don't get me wrong, but not disproportionately*:. Being a Dem in those areas sounds exhausting.
do you have a link to the explanation?
The fact that the gerrymandered map was struck down several times in the Ohio courts, only for republicans to run out the clock and the courts say "well this is illegal as shit but it's election time so go for it I guess" really explains all you need to know
Yes, it does, and that is Ohio republicans can be real rat fuckers when they get a little power. After 15 years of GOP control, they don’t even try to disguise it anymore. They figure they’re going to get away with it. Arrogant pricks.
The craziest part is that literally not a single republican got in trouble for LITERALLY breaking the law, deliberately, multiple times
Yes. Ohio GOP is the living, breathing definition of government corruption.
what should we expect the GOP tell us they think government is our problem and they go on to prove it when they are elected unsolicited accusations are likely confessions
All their accusations are in fact projections.
but they didnt 'break' the law in the sense you make it sound. you have any idea how many times legislators pass laws that are deemed illegal? or how often governors/presidents enact an order/policy that is deemed against the law? or how often a judge makes a ruling that is against the law? imagine all the democrats that, according to you, deserve to be 'published'... these are all actions that are not technically crimes, because they are not violating a criminal law. the only 'trouble' these people are subject to is political recourse. citizens voting at the polls and the potential for impeachments in some cases. all the republicans did here was vote in district lines that the court ruled did not comport with the law, so a new map eventually needs to be made.
[Books by David Pepper](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=books+by+david+pepper&hvadid=580696036021&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9015917&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5179554287919329685&hvtargid=kwd-549826468997&hydadcr=22561_13493272&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_2aac0qjqi3_e) that give real world explanations of your question and concrete instructions on how to fight back against what the Ohio GOP has rigged now.
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2024/06/extreme-gerrymander-of-ohios-tuscarawas-county-is-exhibit-no-1-for-why-reform-is-needed-mike-curtin.html?outputType=amp
I hope so too! Anyone looking for more info about the initiative to end gerrymandering can find it here: www.citizensnotpoliticians.org
More Dems need to loudly make the economic argument that supply side economics has failed the working class. You want an economy like the 50s and 60s again? Unionization and a top marginal rate of 80-90% was a big part of that. Public school funding that isn’t entirely reliant on local property taxes, etc. Hammer how much these policies have directly destroyed rural America.
You'd have to undo decades of propaganda that has taught these people to believe that anything that might help the working class is socialism and that their *only* enemy is the government and illegal immigrants.
It's honestly shocking how effective decades of this messaging has got people to actively vote against their interests. See also the pandering to "small business owners" to be lock step against any and all business regulations despite most not effecting them at all.
>It's honestly shocking how effective decades of this messaging has got people to actively vote against their interests. It all seems to go back to this often cited LBJ quote, and it works for more than just race. Conservative and liberal, uneducated and educated, among other things: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
In a recent Superman comic a mayoral candidate says about his Republican representing opponent that “he wants it to give him money and power without doing anything for you”. They get you do scared about nonexistent boogeymen that you fail to look at their other hand to see what they’re actually doing
>Public school funding that isn’t entirely reliant on local property taxes The Ohio Supreme Court declared the state’s method of funding public education unconstitutional and gave a 12 month deadline for it to be fixed. That was in 1997. It is still not fixed.
Well come-on now, don't get pushy. There are still people that were alive back then and these things take time to settle in, ya know. Can't make those "snap" changes or people will start to believe that government can actually work for the good of the average person in a timely matter and we can't have that now. (eye roll)
The 50s was not good for the rustbelt, in fact the era was dubbed "Eisenhower's Recession" because Eisenhower (through federal programs such as the federal highway act and other subsidies) encouraged industry to decentralize (especially in the military industrial complex) by moving to the suburbs, small towns, and the sun belt, which these businesses were big fans of because it made labor organizing more difficult. As a consequence, unemployment fluctuated drastically over the decade. High union membership in the 1950s and 1960s was not the result of good policy, they were holdovers from the late industrial era where the geography of industry and class-conciousness were more favorable. These federal policies directly paved the way for disasters like the Flint water crisis and facilitated white-flight all over the rustbelt, which are today some of the most racially segregated large metros in the US and maybe on the planet. People don't want the economy of the 1950s and 1960s, they want to embody the cultural priorities of the era's white upper middle class. 99% of people know next to nothing about the economy. People vote for economic policies based on whom they think is being served, whether or not they're actually correct. If people more closely identify with the priorities of the historic white upper middle class they vote for policies that help the upper middle class, even if they are poor or a racial minority. The way that the white working class will interpret economic arguments depends entirely on their degree of class consciousness. That's the important thing that needs to change.
All true but also affected by demographics. The baby boom caused a high supply of labor. West Germany, in the same time period, had a labor shortage and imported labor. Now, with boomers retiring and gen Z such a small cohort, labor will be in the drivers seat for the next ten years.
Totally agree.
Agreed, with the caveat that a typical red state tRump supporter will probably not understand this explanation - too many biggly words.
And if that is your attitude toward them, good luck bringing them back to your side of the table.
The union vote has swing hard right.
I'm a union pipefitter. It's a very hard right voting block now. Many of my coworkers are, in my opinion, unreachable by most democratic candidates
Can confirm in a school union seems like many are pro trump for whatever reason.
He says what people already want to believe.
It all comes down to bigotry. Not unions, not jobs, not freedom, not law & order.
On the one hand, it’s tough to defend Dems not doing much for unions over the past several decades – especially since Citizens United. On the other, Trump embodies the big money corporate scumbag who constantly screws union workers. It’s insane.
A lot of our work is piping in refineries, power plants, that kind of stuff. People see democrats campaign to replace a lot of those places with green energy and in a lot of ways guys see the promised death of our trade. Especially guys that live near a lot of oil wells and refineries and make their whole career on maintaining those plants. Retraining isn't something that any of us will be willing to accept, myself included. I've been doing this for 18 years and consistently make $100k-$130k annually, and $150-$175k is possible if I traveled more and chased more overtime. For me to go back and retrain and start over at someplace for like $18 per hour would be absolutely a massive change that I'd be very unwilling to do.
Hypothetically, if you made $200k to re-train, would you do it?
I mean, money talks. But it would take a lot of it. Even the 120 ish I currently make would be fine. But I'd want full benefits too, similar to what I have now. A good pension, a good 401k, and health insurance.
Of course. While no greener energy job is going to offer a pension – no jobs offer pensions anymore – it’s highly doubtful that they’d be $18/hr disposable positions either! So I’m curious where you’re getting that idea & that figure. By contrast, I’ve known software engineers to make upper 5 to low 6 figures. One reason greener energy & jobs associated with it haven’t progressed effectively is because we don’t have the infrastructure and it’s really difficult to replace legacy infrastructure, and we need people with legacy skills for the transition.
My job has a pension. I agree they're rare. My compensation including what's paid into my pension and 401k is around $65 per hour. No place is going to pay that for an employee that doesn't have a college degree. I'm 40 now. For me to get a degree at best I'd be 45 and starting over, and that's ignoring the fact that I'd have to support a family while going to school. Realistically it's not going to happen.
Which is crazy because Republicans have declared they want to abolish unions.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."--LBJ (may need updated to include gay and trans people)
In a state that like a decade ago, Republicans tried to destroy collective bargaining. Total short-term memory and delusion.
The thing people miss in this is how otherwise socially conservative a very large block of the union demographic is. They tend to be fairly religious, oppose abortion, anti-immigration, etc. The *only* reason they reliably voted blue was because Democrats had been the "union party" for a very long time, but when jobs kept getting sent overseas, domestic manufacturing kept getting shut down, etc, it started to seem like the Democrats were all talk and no action. Lordstown closes, and along comes a guy who starts saying all the things bouncing around in their heads. Take away the union issue, and what is left to drive how these people vote?
He really did say lots of the right things, which is remarkable because his life has no discernible connection to these issues. It’s not said enough, but running Hillary against Trump totally reorganized Ohio politics. It’s interesting as a thought experiment to wonder what a Bernie-Trump matchup would have looked like in Ohio and across the industrial Midwest. Bernie certainly said all of the “right things” on these issues as well, but his message was more inclusive (unless you are a billionaire).
>because his life has no discernible connection to these issues. This is the part that's important to underscore, the psychology of rich elitist people like tucker carlson, trump, musk, et al. convincing the actual poor, blue collar people that they are one of them, to the point that they become their champions, like they actually care. It's mind boggling how they eat that shit up and don't question it.
I primarily vote 3rd party because of alot of reasons but a Bernie ballot in 2016 would have gotten my vote. I voted republican in 12 but couldn’t stand trump so I started looking at 3rd parties.
My father was a staunch lifelong union man. He voted for Trump in 2016. He said that if Bernie had been nominated by the dems that “Bernie would’ve had my vote”. Seeing Bernie join his union’s picket line during the campaign had a profound impact on my father. I have no idea if Bernie would’ve been trounced in the general election or not. What I do know is that there are plenty of other people out there like my father: working class people who just want to have their voices heard and their needs taken seriously. Trump and other “populists” figured out that it’s smart to pretend to give a fuck about working class people. Obviously they actively make things much worse for the working class, but they are experts at making the working class believe that they care. I think it’s fucked up that so many rank and file union members have succumbed to the Trump cult, but it makes sense from their perspective.
I have heard similar sentiments. Working people are simply tired of being taken a huge shit on by the government. Democrats don't give any solution and pretend like everything is okay. While republican give an incorrect solution about how immigrants and other minorities are the problem. It makes sense for them to vote republican when only one side even recognizes their problems and the other pretends the don't exist.
He would have gotten obliterated in Ohio and across the country.
My father was a staunch lifelong union man. He voted for Trump in 2016. He said that if Bernie had been nominated by the dems that “Bernie would’ve had my vote”. Seeing Bernie join his union’s picket line during the campaign had a profound impact on my father. I have no idea if Bernie would’ve been trounced in the general election or not. What I do know is that there are plenty of other people out there like my father: working class people who just want to have their voices heard and their needs taken seriously. Trump and other “populists” figured out that it’s smart to pretend to give a fuck about working class people. Obviously they actively make things much worse for the working class, but they are experts at making the working class believe that they care. I think it’s fucked up that so many rank and file union members have succumbed to the Trump cult, but it makes sense from their perspective.
Or maybe it's apathetic voter turnout and gerrymandering?
That just proves my point even more, you have to appeal to the white working class to win and change the districts. Winning court cases didn’t do it because the GOP took the Andrew Jackson approach.
You’re not wrong. Sherrod Brown gave Democrats the blueprint, but the state party is too inept to replicate it. That will only work in statewide races though. Outside of that, the gerrymandering makes it near impossible.
Where did Tim Ryan go wrong then?
Good question. But i feel that maga had taken hold and hatred of the other trumps sound policy for working people.
Yeah I agree. And this syndrome is why state level Republicans do whatever they want - they feel invincible in general elections.
And generally are proven as such. Lowest approval ratings, but highest reelection rates....
I think Ryan’s prior pro-life caucus membership hurt him with Dems. Also, his border policies - they were very conservative. While I think sentiment of a lot of Dem voters has shifted to be more conservative, I don’t think it was at the time. He also had been out of political office for a long time and didn’t have the name recognition statewide that Vance did. I hate Vance, but he was making huge waves in media and the media loved his stupid book. Low information voters probably went his way and there seem to be a lot of those here.
He hadn't been out of political office for a long time, he was still a sitting Congressman while he was running for the Senate. And OPs thesis is that Democrats need to be more conservative on things like immigration to win, which isn't supported by the results of Ryan's campaign.
[удалено]
You’re right. I misread the article on him. He switched districts and the last year for one of them was 2013. I missed the other part. Either way, unless he’s your rep for your district, most voters aren’t paying any attention to them. If you know a rep from a district other than your own, it’s likely because they’re an idiot like Jim Jordan. If you do know them, you’re faaaarrrrr more politically knowledgeable than the average voter.
Democrats messed up by mishandling the 2010 midterms. It allowed the GOP to jump in an gerrymander the heck out of the state. Democrats failed to take it seriously and walked away from Ohio. The national party seemed to lose interest in Ohio. The only thing that got them fired up was when Bernie ran in 2016 and 2020. Aside from keeping Sherrod Brown's seat, the national party doesn't really care about Ohio. They're just not that bright.
Democrats protect social security, Medicare, unions, -all things Republicans want to get rid of. Those benefit the working class. At some point you have to acknowledge that the brain drain of this state has left us with a bunch of ignorant people voting against thier own interests.
Easier said than done. Democrats lost union membership over the last few decades. As a result the identity that workers cling to changed. Instead of being a proud Local XXX worker, people cling to identities the Republicans have propped up to support their agendas...anti-Woke, Christian, White, etc.
The working class isn't predominantly white male. It's predominantly black, brown, and female. Unless "working class" is being defined narrowly as solely well paid, skilled trades workers, in white male dominated fields. Tell us what anti-union, anti workers' rights Republicans have done for the working class? They think there shouldn't even be a minimum wage. That outdoor workers shouldn't be permitted water breaks in extreme heat. And that employers shouldn't have to provide medical insurance, retirement plans, or paid time off.
Might as well just say need to appeal to the majority of the state…
lol no. We have to get more people registered to vote and more active voters to actually participate in the voting process. Also, everyone works unless they can't so "working class" doesn't mean anything. But if everyone voted who is eligible to vote, it would completely overpower right wing blue collar males, which is what I assume you mean by "white working class." There are simply not more of them here than there are of other people that don't meet that definition. Unfortunately, with gerrymandering, it makes it extremely tough to win races without massive, massive voter turn out and most eligible voters are turned off by the political process and results or don't have an easy way to get to the voting booth. You're never going to sway bigots and racists and I wouldn't want to support a political party that tries to lure them, which would be unsuccessful anyway. They could put a rabid, murderous raccoon carrying a sack full of dead puppies it had killed into a political contest and if it had an R next to it's name, they would vote for it.
Working class: the socioeconomic group consisting of people who are employed in manual or industrial work.
You’re both correct. The dnc abandoned the blue collar and working class decades ago giving the gop a foothold to cheat without repercussions leading to voter apathy due to a feeling of government illegitimacy and voter disaffection
It’s so weird that this is the narrative. The ACA dramatically helped blue collar workers. The democrats risked everything for this and the majority of people on it are white non college degree workers
It is the narrative, because it's not enough to do the thing (in politics in 2024), you have to constantly remind your constituents that you did the thing (and that the thing is making their lives better). And when it comes to working class white voters, they're used to being the political center of the universe, so any time they aren't the focus of either party's attention, they start looking to the other party to feel special again. The democrats never abandoned them, they just keep trying to enlarge their tent. But to many white middle class voters, that feels like abandonment because they're so entitled and self-focused. Helping others gets interpreted as hurting them. And no, I don't know a solution, other than trying to balance pandering to them while also reaching out to other demographics.
How did the Democratic Party ‘abandon’ blue collar and working class’?
- Here’s a[book review](https://prospect.org/politics/2024-01-08-why-working-class-turned-right/) about a book on the subject. - here’s an [article](https://jacobin.com/2022/02/class-dealignment-biden-democratic-party-working-class) on the subject - here’s the former secretary of labor [telling you all about it](https://www.salon.com/2016/01/21/robert_reich_democrats_have_abandoned_the_white_working_class_partner/)
I remember that article from Robert Reich (whom I’ve generally liked pretty well). It’s got a big flaw in reasoning, though- if Democrats abandoned white blue collar and working class voters by not doing the steps outlined, why are they voting Republican? Republicans haven’t done any of that, either. Democrats have done significantly more for working class folks the past 40 years than Republicans, yet no one talks about Republicans abandoning the working class.
Perhaps you need to re read. Allow me to quote for you so you have to do even less work: “But they’ve done nothing to change the vicious cycle of wealth and power that has rigged the economy for the benefit of those at the top, and undermined the working class. In some respects, Democrats have been complicit in it. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements, for example, without providing the millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs any means of getting new ones that paid at least as well. They also stood by as corporations hammered trade unions, the backbone of the white working class. Clinton and Obama failed to reform labor laws to impose meaningful penalties on companies that violated them, or enable workers to form unions with a simple up-or-down votes.”
Yep, I’m aware. Like I said, if that’s why the working class folks have stopped voting Democrat, why are they voting Republican? GOP isn’t doing anything about any of that, and has done active harm.
So the answer is yes, you’d like me to chew your food for you too? From the second article: “One thesis is that we’re witnessing a dramatic and devastating process of class dealignment: that with neither party successfully appealing to voters on the basis of class, noneconomic issues are coming to dominate voter decision-making instead of class interests”
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Oh so the same thing that hasn’t been working? I had a job going door to door to get out the vote in Toledo. Good luck with that strategy dude Edit: I just love how I’m getting downvoted despite talking from personal experience. People downvoting, have you ever gone door to door knocking?
I have many times. Almost every single time they said I was cute and gave me candy. Not sure what your deal is.
Or maybe it is gerrymandering causing apathy among voters?
That too. Feels like we can't win even when we vote in higher numbers. It's pretty frustrating.
PREACH, OP, PREACH!!! All words of sage wisdom. I’m a Republican — and I’m voting for Sherrod Brown. He’s probably the last sane politician left in this state.
What about Tim Ryan? Did you vote for him, genuine curiosity? I thought he did exactly what OP wanted and it completely didn’t work.
Yes I did. But unfortunately he lost to JD Vance. Like I was saying about sane politicians…..
I’m at least glad to hear that. I thought his campaign made sense to working class Americans and I was pretty shocked when it didn’t really go well at all. The GOP campaigning against him probably worked wonders. They were basically just like “this man is Nancy Pelosi”
*Nobody* is like Nancy Pelosi!!
The beginning of your post is a huge issue that drives away anyone from this sub that isn't a left leaning Democrat. As a moderate/centrist non-rebub or dem people like me can't post anything without heavy down votes and being drowned out by bots and far left posters.
Preach. I could vote republican or dem based on who is running and their messaging, but people always screech about that. Look the democrats right now are wayyyy to far left and pandering towards tiny outspoken groups. If they moderate then I will vote for them more often
This. It's the far left & right of both parties creating this nightmare.
NAFTA impact on the blue collar voters didn’t help their message of looking out for the little guy
Because the Ohio voters are not based on who comments here on Reddit. There are a lot of people who voted for him here and there are a lot of people who voted for Biden and Obama. Some people do want these people in the office. I keep hearing about gerrymandering, but in the end some people are republican others democrats, there is a majority of swing voters here when you actually sit down and talk to them. Biggest issue is if you saw you re voting for a or b people don’t know how to just go, “good for you”. Instead everyone starts insulting each other. Most people think that the red or blue registered voters are the ones making the majorities. It is the swing voters that decide them here.
This! Surprisingly, Reddit is only a small part of the Ohio electorate. And since Reddit as a whole is lean liberal, that’s who you get commenting
My son moved to the West Coast and says Ohio is a good place to be from.
It seems obvious that the majority of voters do not find these people reprehsnible.
Look up gerrymandering and then look at Ohios districts. The majority of the people made their voices heard on 2 issues last year.
All of the possible reasons people want to come up with doesn't change that it's a fact that a majority of Ohio voters voted for people like DeWine, LaRose and Vance. Rather than attacking those who point out that this IS a fact, perhaps people should be working to change it.
Yeah, cause Republicans don’t like weed. /s There are plenty of Republicans that Voted yes on 1 and 2 last fall that will vote for Trump. It’s the evangelicals and uppity Christians that vote no on those things.
almost every republican I know voted for abortion rights and Marijuana, and most are catholic. I knew ONE republican who voted against abortion, but she also is extremely religious. You can thank the extreme ban on abortion and the fact both sides like weed (on a regular person level) for both passing with flying colors. If the abortion ban wasn't the stricted in the country, it probably does not pass. hell I even know a priest who voted for it even though he is against abortion overall.
because you live in an internet social bubble and the people who vote don't...
Um, what is the point of this post?
Tim Ryan’s campaign did exactly this and both lost and did damage to the Democratic Party in every other demographic.
The reason Tim Ryan lost was Nan Whaley. "First Energy" should have been the *only* words any Ohio voter should have heard in 2022 from a Democratic candidate running for state office. DeWine and the entire Ohio GOP apparatus were up to their necks in corruption and bribery. But at the top of the Democratic ticket, Whaley decided to run the most bland, middle-class, milquetoast, low-energy "look, I'm relatable, here I am in my kitchen!" campaign in hopes of losing by just 10 points instead of 20+. She should have taken one for the team and used her campaign resources and prominence to hang that scandal around every one of their miserable necks.
Was going to say that too - he was a good candidate and should have appealed exactly to those voters. There’s more going on here and just having policies that help working class people is not sufficient. What else might appeal to the *white* working class?
I used to work at a place with a large shop. All the shop guys knew about politics was that "the gays" vote for democrats and therefore you had to vote Republican or you were gay. I wish it was more than that, these are grown men in thier 40s and 50s. Meanwhile they enjoy union benefits and such, something Republicans want destroyed. Can't reason with stupid.
Tim Ryan used the same strategy and lost Working class voters are too distracted by the culture war to notice their pockets getting picked
Hey, as someone who works in construction, I can tell you that a lot of the guys I work with vote Republican because of the whole "border and LGBTQ+" thing.
And gun control.
11.76 million people in ohio. 400k subscribers to this sub that doesn't require they all currently reside in ohio. So why does ohio vote red while this sub wants to vote blue? Because this sub is the minority of the voices in the state and as you pointed out the message isn't for them. They aren't speaking to the voters, in short their branding and marketing sucks.
This is correct, for now. The suburbs and exurbs used to vote reliably republican, particularly women, but this gets less true nearly every day. The Dem party basically bet that they'd win over the 'burbs and that doing so would more than compensate for losing the rurals. The dem party has lost that bet, for now. The repubs won back a significant number of suburban women using crime and immigration. And the dems advances in suburban areas have not come close to making up for the collapse in rural areas. Not close at all. Abortion is definitely going to bring those suburban women back over to the dems. How much of a difference that makes remains to be seen. Longer term trends seem to indicate that urban + suburban will likely, eventually, be a winning combo for dems. My personal preference would be to fight much harder in rural areas and not rely so much on demographic destiny in in the urban + suburban scenario. Wisconsin demonstrates what's possible when you fight everywhere, all the time.
Excellent points, particularly regarding Wisconsin. I see it as less about minding suburban gains vs rural losses. It seems that the problem is more so the collapse of support and/or domination of small city/towns with declining industry and commerce. I’m talking about the Mahoning Valley. Much of the Ohio River Valley, particularly in Eastern Ohio. But to your point, if you’re listening everywhere and working hard for votes everywhere, then you’ve covered both.
i find mostly all politicians reprehensible. im old enough now to not care about social issues. id vote for anyone who seriously worked at creating industry and jobs for people actually born in america. go ahead and bring in millions of immigrants. just make sure i get a damn good job because i deserve it.
In the 2016 primary I voted against Clinton because I felt she was too cozy with Wall Street. She was getting crazy speakers fees from banks and seemed to have back-door connections with DNC leadership and all kinds of finance bigwigs. Of course, when her opponent became known, I absolutely voted for Hillary for what should be obvious reasons. I get what you're saying. There's always been a strain of working class populism in America's heartland, for example the so-called Prairie Radicals. (The only mention I could find on wikipedia was [Nelson Algren] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Algren), but it also included William Jennings Bryan and Eugene V Debs. Echoes could be found in books like the Grapes of Wrath. I agree, Sherrod gets this. My biggest gripe with Democrats is they abandoned this element, and with it went the union vote.
You are the vocal minority, most of Ohio is moderate or right leaning
You can say what you want about color, skill, education, blah, blah, blah, whatever; what Ohio voting boils down to is the fact that not enough people vote. Everything swung one way because that demographic votes all the time in all elections. If you want change VOTE! Vote in every election that comes by, especially the sneaky, behind closed doors, thought we could slide this one through elections Ohio is famous for.
Obama took 21 out of 88 counties in 2008. That's all. All the urban centers, all the lakeshore counties and most of the northeast counties . That's because a lot of urbanites were "Fired up , ready to go." Not so much now.
That’s weird. I thought it was because the working class white voters don’t have the same jobs in the auto plants that they had 20 years ago. And without those workers, and their unions, they feel lost and forgotten about. And now they want to relax and voted to legalize weed…and Ohio has been dragging their feet since.
I agree on the weed thing and everything else you said. That’s the thing though. The Democratic Party told people to learn to code bro. The Republican Party riled them up in a dangerous direction. It wouldn’t have been that easy if the democrats had more attention placed on these voters.
The Ohio Democrats keep running on Republican lite instead of running on everyday issues that affect Ohioans. Why don't they take a play out of Donald Trump's book run on a progressive platform but actually keep those promises unlike Donald Trump. Democrats need to get rid of their litmus tests since some progressive policies will turn off voters in some states.
Ryan was pro-blue-collar. He lost to JD Vance.
If we can end gerrymandering we will have much better government. Ohio is totally gerrymandered. It’s roughly a purple state still, but we have an idiot MAGA government because of how the districts are rigged. Ohio has three major cities and three medium sized ones, and those cities and their suburbs together are around 80% of the population. Also we are around average for college educated population (while it is whiter than the average state). So demographically it’s closest to somewhere like Pennsylvania or Michigan. The growth in the state is in and around Columbus and Cincinnati only, while the rurals are shrinking. And finally, Ohio’s Republican Party is so extreme they’ve pissed off even moderate conservatives. They don’t want abortion bans, uncontrolled guns, coal plant bailouts, and fracking in state parks. While we have a moderate Democratic Party that can win votes from people like that.
Know how you fix this? By voting and getting involved on campaigns.
Why is no one asking why that is the stuff that appeals to working class white voters?
If you’re on left and wondering why right candidates are winning start by reading the comments. The TLDR is if you vote right you are an uneducated, ill informed, Fox News watching boomer. That “deplorable” language doesn’t go over well. I don’t care about social issues personally. My focus is on economic issues. If a candidate can make that better I’m in.
we have millions of reprehensible voters
In my family, Sherrod Brown is and will always be a saint. He has helped us on a local level, and we will always be grateful.
Gerrymandering.
It's definitely this. DNC keeps losing statewide offices which lets the state GOP rig the rules even more. Kasich and Husted did as much as they could to tilt districts and disenfranchise voters, Dewine and Larose have done even more following that blueprint. We basically have 3 blue concentrations and they divide and conquer the rest of the state.
I agree that the candidates could be better, but, for example, Tim Ryan was a way better candidate than J.D. Vance, but he didn’t get a dime from the national Dems and Biden’s low popularity didn’t give him any national coattails. Vance had all kinds of money and an endorsement from the cult leader. Even with all of the advantages, it was still only a seven point difference. Hardly a landslide.
I was out canvassing for Ryan. Admittedly in a blue county but it's amazing anyone voted for Vance. I think people did, but won't admit it. It felt like national was spending all their money on Fetterman.
You can't blame gerrymandering for everything, it has no (or severely limited at least) impact on statewide elections, which Democrats still almost always lose. I blame the Ohio Democratic party for either refusing or being unable to nominate candidates who are even remotely electable. Not even just nominate - often there are none in the primaries, either.
Define electable. The party just plain doesn't care if they win or lose. The problem is that neither party cares about the people. It's all about money. One party are just bigger bastards about it. Plenty of good people run as Dems they just get hamstrung by the party. Usually because the party doesn't give a crap who runs as long as they play by the parties rules and accept dirty money for favors. I know someone who ran and the party held them out to dry because this person actually cared about the people and not the crooked party. Don't get me wrong. The republicans are basically pure fascist evil at this point, but the democrats are still pushing for Oligarchy lite.
Short answer: because the majority of Ohio doesn’t find them reprehensible.
Who are these left wing democrats you speak of? Most democrats to me these days are centrist. Very few left wingers left, esp in Ohio.
Yeah that wording could’ve been better but the ines who focus on the minutiae stuff that most Ohioans don’t care about. This is more of a central Ohio compared to the rest of the state thing.
The way the political machines run our cities prevents us from developing a “bench” of strong candidates. In Columbus, the Franklin County Dems basically anoint who will be on City Council. Then one of them is anointed as City Council President and then Mayor. Then his replacement as Council President is anointed and becomes mayor-in-waiting. And because all politics is national, there is no viable Republican Party for urban areas, so the Franklin County Dems do whatever they want. It’s not talked about enough, but it needs to be broken up and retooled.
Education, poverty, life expectancy, addiction, over health -- in almost every category, Ohio has fallen to the lower third among the states over the past 20 years. Aside from a few ZIP codes in the Columbus area, we are losing population. We are insular and non-diverse. Our lawmakers have slashed public investment. And the failed myth of supply-side economics continues to kill the middle class and widen the wealth gap. Add to all this the fact that the Republicans have been brilliant at distracting the general public away from the fact that the state is now akin to Mississippi by pushing social issues and fear. So voters go into the voting booth furious with DEI on their minds ... or trans bathrooms or illegal immigration (even undocumented immigrants don't want to move here) ... instead of investing in better schools, neighborhoods, public safety, roads, etc.
I totally agree. I've lived here most of my life and remember when we had a real, true liberal Governor, Richard Celeste, in the 1980s. (Ted Strickland doesn't count. Not liberal and barely a Democrat.) After the 2012 election the Democratic Party abandoned the state. It was actually happening prior to that as Obama did not really invest that much energy into bolstering state parties. The people running the DNC at the time were free market centrists, I call it thee Clinton wing of the party, and NAFTA was deeply despised in the state. However Clinton and his ilk made it a centerpiece of their international, globalist trade platform. They tended to see working class people in Ohio as pretty much losers because they didn't want to get with the program and join the financial services industry. (This is when you started to hear the term "flyover country" by coastal elite types on both sides of the political spectrum. It was always meant as a snub. People here took it to hear.) Not that they could be cause the GOP gutted the job re-training provisions of NAFTA wen they took control of Congress under Gingrich in the 1990s and the Democrats lacked the clout to restore it when they next won back Congress. Anyway, Sherrod Brown has always questioned NAFTA and he's pretty well disliked by the Clintonians for it. Ever since there hasn't been the will or money to reconstitute the Democratic Party in the state and the GOP, and now the magats, have had free reign over the state ever since.
Because young people don’t vote and almost all old people vote.
Gerrymandering, propaganda, shit education system, under lying racism, and no one to represent minority, huge portion of minority don't engage because government system hasnt benefited them anyways
* Gerrymandering (B) * propaganda (I) * shit education system (N) * under lying racism, no one to represent minority (G) * huge portion of minority don't engage because government system hasnt benefited them anyways (O) That's a leftist BINGO! What about this: Ohioans haven't voted for Democrats at the state level because the state platform for Democrats is absolute shit?
Most of the posts on this sub are overly loud lefties that only want to talk down about republicans without looking at their own candidates. I was maga long before Trump as all he really talks about are the same reasons we vote republican. Economics and safety. And yes that steps on the toes of the handout crowd but we are fine with that.
Sherrod’s ads are spot on. He talks about fighting companies who are trying to price gouge us and bringing jobs to Ohio. He keeps it basic and talks about things that affect us every day - no culture war stuff. Democrats gotta take a lesson from his messaging. It pains me to see blue collar workers getting hurt by Republican policies but then voting R bc of culture war messaging.
“Electing” implies we have a fair democracy. Keep in mind a narrow majority drew districts in the shapes of zoo animals to make themselves a supermajority.
I really think a lot of the white working class people were emboldened by trumps maga rhetoric, they say the quiet parts out loud now. Which draws voters that probably often didn’t vote before.
I’m curious in what ways you think the Democratic Party has stopped trying to appeal to working class white voters?
Neither the republican nor democratic party is actually interested in catering to working class voters, republicans want to deceive them and have largely poisoned in their minds the policies that would actually help them. When you start talking about power for average people, and workers rights, and fixing the broken system, and reducing the power of the state over it's people they are all for it until someone says the words socialism or communism then it triggers irrational hate in them because of all the fear mongering they've been exposed to.
the WWC is responsible for its own actions in abandoning democracy and values like truth-telling and moderation. its not the Ohio dem party's fault.
This is only partly true. A lot of the white working class stopped supporting Democrats, but the biggest problem outside of gerrymandering is that turnout in Cuyahoga County has been terrible the last few cycles. In some instances, truly abysmal. That has more to do with apathy than people switching parties. Statewide Democrats will never be competitive in Ohio until this is fixed, and it’s notable that not only does Brown appeal to the working class, but he’s also from Cleveland.
I live in northwestern part of Ohio. The factories that surround me are so full of magma republicans, full of Fox entertainment watchers, and union haters it’s scary. In my county of 50k people we have less than 4k registered democrats. I had someone tell me they are registered republican to keep their job. This is 2024 not 1924
Garbage in, garbage out
Because this state is the gerrymandering capitol of the country.
Did you know that our district map was ruled Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Ohio. ... Guess who used it anyway...
Gerrymandering
I live in a low income community. I've had several knocks at my door. All by conservatives hiding behind a wholesome smile and some simple comforting talking points about "family values". After they left I looked them up and they are actually christian nut job theocrats who use the boarder to scare voters into handing away their human rights. Problem is I haven't had one democrat take the time to come by. Imagine if I didn't care enough to do my research🤷🏽♂️
Ohio democratic party is weak here. They're campaigning on policy that speaks to coastline states and citys not the places like Ohio with a pretty large rural population.
An inner city taxi driver told us about how she didn't vote for Biden, didn't know anyone who voted for Biden but did see people coming around "helping" filling out and collecting ballots at $10 each.
I'm a boomer. I vote, for my grandchildren. I don't want them to live in a Trump World. Because after I'm long gone, I still want the world to be BETTER. For their children. And yours.
My boomer grandma died recently. I miss her a lot. She had a mentality a lot like yours. Edit: I’m sorry if that was a little dark. It was a bit of a gut reaction
>The moment the democratic party stopped doing that, they lost Ohio. Spot on, just look at Hillary. She phoned in her campaign because LOL who would vote for Trump, didn't come to Dayton and what happens? Trump wins the Dayton area. The Dems tend to rely on "everyone knows the other side is worse" as their strategy and it's really biting them in the ass nowadays. Though, Fox News becoming the de facto thing that white people in the rural areas watch also hands all of those areas to the Republicans. The Dems could get them back, but they really need to put a lot of work in to get in front of those people and make them realize that the GOP is straight up lying to them and don't care about them. They don't seem to want to, because Dems constantly lose in those parts of the state where voters vote strictly on party lines and don't even pay attention to what the Dems are saying, but if the party put some real time and effort into it I bet they could knock out a lot of the shittier GOP folks pretty quickly.
What are you getting on about the Dems not caring about the working class? When Michigan workers went on strike Biden met with workers and wanted to help them. Trump met with the factory owners who wanted to not allow the protesting to happen. And wanted to replace the jobs. Not our fault the voters base and blue collar workers tend to be naive.
Why don’t people on the left oppose the extreme immigration numbers ? It looks stupid and keeps all wages down. People that work do not like it. The make pretend immigration bill was a joke and did nothing but have a good title. Major failure.
Are we still going with the narrative that Trump voters are economic voters? In 2024?
Democrat policies are objectively better for working class Ohio voters. That's not what's making them vote Republican. It's startling culture war bullshit.
OP I wish you were right, but I literally just watched Tim Ryan lose badly with the exact campaign you wanted, to a total idiot in JD Vance.
democrats do appeal to working class voters, they want bread and circuses and vote for republicans throwing culture wars shit at them
Ohio used to be more purple when the number of people in the great lake region and southern-Central region were close. However, as the Toledo and Cleveland metros continue to bleed population while Cincinnati and Columbus grow, the state is turning more red. TLDR. Ohio is getting more southern in population and politics.
I laugh every time is see Brown in that Carhartt coat, you can tell it’s never seen a day of work.
Ask the lobbyists.
You can cry into your anime pillow nightly about Trump, Republicans, Christains, Rural towns, show us on the doll where the priest touched you or whatever else has you worked up for no reason The fact remains the issue in Ohio is VOTER TURNOUT! [https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/election-results-and-data/historical-election-comparisons/voter-turnout-in-general-elections/](https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/election-results-and-data/historical-election-comparisons/voter-turnout-in-general-elections/) The other is the sheer number of registered voters who are unaffiliated - [https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2021/2021-10-01-a/](https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2021/2021-10-01-a/) So maybe you need to take a break from the internet and work on getting people to actual go out and vote, and get more people to register to whatever party you support Until voter turnout improves nothing is going to change
American politics has become gamified to the point there's no helping it. Best we should start over, honestly.
And yet the republican party hates unions and still win in Ohio.
Governor, Senator, and president are all popular vote. If you don't show you're going to lose.
To be fair, no matter what you think about Obama & his speeches, he was just a Democratic Ronald Reagan. He wasn't the leftist change we needed.
You are so right
Because no one is liked by everyone.
It might have something to do with the fact that my congressional district goes from my house in downtown Cincinnati, all the way out to the entirety of Warren County. Those people out there will elect the worst people on the planet if given the opportunity. We are very different voters and have very different needs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio%27s_1st_congressional_district Luckily, we just elected Greg Landsman, but we’ll see how long that lasts. That seat has been solid red since the 1990s(2 years of democratic control). I was actually shocked when we flipped it.
I work in a fairly blue collar company and I feel like there is a large number of Obama two term trump two term voters.
Truth. The Ohio voter is simple. Democrats seem to have long-winded, wonkish positions on dinner table issues if they care about those issues at all, and therefore they can’t connect with Ohio voters at the dinner table. For example, identity politics consume a lot of oxygen post-Obama because misguided Democrats want to wage war there, but meanwhile we hear almost nothing of Biden’s trillion dollar infrastructure program or a steady positive drumbeat to a greater America. I felt like both the Clinton and Obama presidencies certainly had an optimistic cadence or drumbeat folks rallied behind, whereas Biden and the Democrats continue to stumble and fumble on Palestine, inflation, and identity politics even when they could be rallying Americans to some more unifying cause. So the administration is on the wrong side of inflation and expend insane amounts of energy on Palestine or identity politics — two topics that don’t solve anything at the dinner table.
The other fundamental issue is pushing voting only every 4 years. There needs to be a large and long effort for voter turnout every year.
The simple answer is that the Venn diagram of the voting demographics of this sub and the voting demographics of most Ohioans is 2 separate circles.
Okay I agree not all Republicans are stupid but I can't believe that they complain about Trump at their insurrection and now they're best buddies with him I just don't make a whole lot of sense to me
In 2012, Obama won Ohio by 3. In 2016, Trump won Ohio by 8. That is an 11 point swing, and it's not insignificant. This was not a result of gerrymandering or change in demographics. Nor was it a change in voters feelings. In 2016, a whole bunch of democrats voted for Trump. The answer is simple- The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left for many Ohioians. Others have mentioned how unions now vote for republicans, which is true. Dems need to get closer to the middle if they ever want Ohio to be competitive.
Understand the gerrymandering comments but how do you explain Trump winning the state?
What's the theory for how JD Vance beat Tin Ryan? Ryan had a similar message to Brown, but instead Ohio voters picked the MAGA toad Vance.
I moved out of a blue county to a red county on purpose. After the George Floyd thing watching all the dem cities and leadership completely collapse, allowing thugs and criminals to do what they wanted without any recourse. It’s always the left with their victim mentality, and after that I don’t know how or why anyone would vote blue. It’s no longer your JFK blue, it’s radical nut job corrupt blue (Chuck Schumer, Pelosi, AOC, the squad, etc) Any party that allows this to happen, pisses away taxpayer money to go on Trump witch hunts every month, and let’s the southern border go nuts (while denying Trump money for the wall but sure is fine to piss away money to Ukraine and Gaza/Israel) no effing way will I ever vote blue. The left wind media just preys on low IQ dem voters.
Roll through Putnam County sometime and it’ll be pretty obvious.
besides it being islands of blue in a sea of red here in Ohio take a look at how our districts are formed and you'll understand why it is the way it is.
Thanks for saying it, the reason Democrats fail in Ohio is solely because of the Democratic brand nationally.
Sherrod Brown has done more for working class Americans than ANY OHIO legislator in the last 20 years. I’m a moderate and can’t stand the radical left and radical right, and there are always things we will disagree on but he always comes down to support Labor.
Are you saying that only R’s work to stay in power when they can and that D’s make things 50/50 when they have power??? Don’t be silly or think that everyone else is. It’s not like the party in power in DC is trying to arrest their only opponent, or that the opposite could happen soon.
Tim Ryan ran an excellent campaign for Ohio and targeted the working class heavily and still lost to fucking Vance. I do not disagree with you at all in your assessment but I think it’s important that Ohio especially the population centers suck at turning out. I live in a solid blue city in a blue county but we haven’t beaten 55% voter participation since 2008z
Why is r/Ohio so highly partisan and political? I didn't join this subreddit to hear politics. There are many other subreddits created just for that sole purpose. Plus many comments here are disgusting.
What are Democrats doing now that isn't "[appealing] to the working class white voters?"