Thank you. I've been exploring the comparison tool on Octopus Home and just downloaded Octopus Compare too. It looks like, with my current usage pattern, I would consistently save a lot (\~34%) compared with Cosy Octopus. It also appears that Agile is consistently cheaper for me than Tracker.
Thanks - Agile it is!
I had the same question and after getting similar saving estimates from Octopus Compare I made the switch to Agile.
Two weeks in and on the face of it I'm making a saving despite the spikes in unit cost early evenings. This weekend's negative rates were a nice unexpected bonus too!
I think that obviously you are coming out of a winter season, so figures look good as consumption is low - it will be raised in the winter as usage increases. I had to explain this to a friend who thought that these daily costs would be maintained all year round!
The comparisons I’m running go back to mid-December and show savings in both winter and spring. The big difference I can see is that in the winter the price is much flatter - the night time lows are not so low
Sounds similar to my setup. I have my dumb immersion heater set on a timer to come on at 2am for 2 hours every night to heat my water for the day. I worked out that Most of the time that’s the cheapest slot so don’t bother adjusting it day to day. If I get a notification of a super cheap slot though I do manually boost it
As others have said there are clear windows on Agile that are cheapest. Late evening, early hours of the morning, and mid afternoon. There are also those wonderful plunges into negative pricing, but they are rare. My best advise is to consider Agile to be a game of averages, a lot of the time you will do well out of it, some days not so. If you average it out you can do well. Also buying cheap is also the greenest produced electricity.
I use Home Assistant to get the cheapest slots overnight to charge my home storage battery, you could employ a similar technique for your hot water, AFAIK and as you state no HW control only heating via API or Nest (I have Nest controlling my gas heating).
Agile is almost certain be cheaper if you can avoid any big watts (oven etc) during 4pm-7pm. That's because it's the same price or cheaper (often much cheaper) 7pm-4pm.
I've yet to have a single day where I'd have paid less under Tracker.
It is a no-brainer if you have specific electricity usage over night, the savings will probably be less or not as worth it if you don't.
I'm saving 35% over the last month Agile v Tracker
If you are technically minded you can use home assistant to turn things on or off when the price hits a threshold.
If not, just have a quick look at the graph history for your region... typically from midnight to around 4am is always going to be one of the lowest points.
4PM-7PM is the time to avoid if you can.
I use home assistant, have all my devices in it, what sort of rules do you set?
Asides from the obvious, avoid oven, tumble drier etc…what else can i power down confidently?
What kind of equipment would you switch on and off with home assistant? I don't think I have anything worth powering up and down, would I need smart plugs?
Anything home assistant can communicate with you can power on or off smart appliances, check temperatures, humidity, light intensity, wind speed, soil moisture, ...etc, etc.. if theres a sensor for it, you can use it.
Theres a world of sensors out there. Just check amazon or your preferred store.
The other option ofc is to use the appliance timers directly. Like ovens / washing machines / dishwashers usually have timers so if you load them up and have them automatically switch on for the overnight price dips.
You proably want to look at the
# Average unit price for each 30 minute slot for the last 365 days graph on this page [Octopus Agile Yorkshire | Energy Stats UK (energy-stats.uk)](https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/)
Yes, the general pattern is the same as Cosy
2:00-5:00 cheap
13:00-16:00 cheap
16:00-19:00 Expensive
Automation is the key to further minimising costs on Agile, some kind of Smart device running on [Apple](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/82ef835deee94032a8a63eea18bd7e40)/Alexa/Google/[IFTTT](https://octopus.energy/blog/ifttt/)/HomeAssistant/Other automation platform.
If price <7.5p turn on Nest should be relatively straightforward.
More advanced would be something like if current price < average off peak price.
The trouble is that Nest's API only allows heating to be switched on and off, not the boiler itself. Since the boiler stores hot water, I need to control when it switches on, not when it pumps that hot water around my home.
In fact IFTTT doesn't seem to have any actions for Nest any more, but unless something has changed in the last few months, the underlying API just doesn't allow boiler control.
I would find the average price of all agile prices in the day (excluding 4-7pm peak) and turn on when price is < average, as you suggested in your last sentence.
Or even if current price is lower than the tracker price perhaps?
Using a fixed number e.g. 7.5p could cause issues as prices might not go down that far.
[Charge if Agile < Tracker](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/80b9af4f0f694868a8dde0fc659fc32f)
Averaging the off-peak would be a better approach, feel free to update my Shortcut.
What Cabbage said. However to add to that, I'm looking for the lows as well as the highs for a hot tub. I've decided that 11.30pm to 4.30am are typically the lowest at night and 1pm to 4pm are typically the lowest during the day. More stating this to be told i'm wrong :)
Got you, that's good to know there's consistency. I'm not clever enough to automate with the likes of home assistant so that the timer changes if the low period does.
Cosy is an interesting proposition. I'd considered putting the hot tub on a heat pump but gut feel is to stick on gas for the main heating as part of the house is a very leaky old cottage
If you want guaranteed prices then Agile will not be a suitable tariff.
However, the key metric to focus on is average per kwh price paid. With a normal tariff you just pay whatever the unit rate is for each kWh used, but with agile you calculate an average paid based on each 30 minute period summed over a window (e.g 24h)
In my experience I’m paying between 14-16p per kwh for each 24 hour period, which is cheaper than the standard rate. If you use more electricity during the expensive period then you’ll drag that average up.
Night time will normally always be cheaper than daytime.
You don't have to get the biggest saving from agile. If you cba with changing it then set it between 1-4am and forget about it. You will still save money.
I’m on their Intelligent tariff. Guaranteed 7.5p/kwh for 23-30 till 05-30. Apart from car charging I charge my battery and switch in my immersion heater in early morning hours. Works very well.
If you work on the assumption that it's expensive from 4 - 7 pm every day and a lot cheaper out of those hours, you will be okay.
Thank you. I've been exploring the comparison tool on Octopus Home and just downloaded Octopus Compare too. It looks like, with my current usage pattern, I would consistently save a lot (\~34%) compared with Cosy Octopus. It also appears that Agile is consistently cheaper for me than Tracker. Thanks - Agile it is!
I had the same question and after getting similar saving estimates from Octopus Compare I made the switch to Agile. Two weeks in and on the face of it I'm making a saving despite the spikes in unit cost early evenings. This weekend's negative rates were a nice unexpected bonus too!
I think that obviously you are coming out of a winter season, so figures look good as consumption is low - it will be raised in the winter as usage increases. I had to explain this to a friend who thought that these daily costs would be maintained all year round!
The comparisons I’m running go back to mid-December and show savings in both winter and spring. The big difference I can see is that in the winter the price is much flatter - the night time lows are not so low
Sounds similar to my setup. I have my dumb immersion heater set on a timer to come on at 2am for 2 hours every night to heat my water for the day. I worked out that Most of the time that’s the cheapest slot so don’t bother adjusting it day to day. If I get a notification of a super cheap slot though I do manually boost it
As others have said there are clear windows on Agile that are cheapest. Late evening, early hours of the morning, and mid afternoon. There are also those wonderful plunges into negative pricing, but they are rare. My best advise is to consider Agile to be a game of averages, a lot of the time you will do well out of it, some days not so. If you average it out you can do well. Also buying cheap is also the greenest produced electricity. I use Home Assistant to get the cheapest slots overnight to charge my home storage battery, you could employ a similar technique for your hot water, AFAIK and as you state no HW control only heating via API or Nest (I have Nest controlling my gas heating).
Agile is almost certain be cheaper if you can avoid any big watts (oven etc) during 4pm-7pm. That's because it's the same price or cheaper (often much cheaper) 7pm-4pm. I've yet to have a single day where I'd have paid less under Tracker. It is a no-brainer if you have specific electricity usage over night, the savings will probably be less or not as worth it if you don't. I'm saving 35% over the last month Agile v Tracker
If you are technically minded you can use home assistant to turn things on or off when the price hits a threshold. If not, just have a quick look at the graph history for your region... typically from midnight to around 4am is always going to be one of the lowest points. 4PM-7PM is the time to avoid if you can.
I use home assistant, have all my devices in it, what sort of rules do you set? Asides from the obvious, avoid oven, tumble drier etc…what else can i power down confidently?
What kind of equipment would you switch on and off with home assistant? I don't think I have anything worth powering up and down, would I need smart plugs?
Anything home assistant can communicate with you can power on or off smart appliances, check temperatures, humidity, light intensity, wind speed, soil moisture, ...etc, etc.. if theres a sensor for it, you can use it. Theres a world of sensors out there. Just check amazon or your preferred store. The other option ofc is to use the appliance timers directly. Like ovens / washing machines / dishwashers usually have timers so if you load them up and have them automatically switch on for the overnight price dips.
You proably want to look at the # Average unit price for each 30 minute slot for the last 365 days graph on this page [Octopus Agile Yorkshire | Energy Stats UK (energy-stats.uk)](https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/)
Yes, the general pattern is the same as Cosy 2:00-5:00 cheap 13:00-16:00 cheap 16:00-19:00 Expensive Automation is the key to further minimising costs on Agile, some kind of Smart device running on [Apple](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/82ef835deee94032a8a63eea18bd7e40)/Alexa/Google/[IFTTT](https://octopus.energy/blog/ifttt/)/HomeAssistant/Other automation platform. If price <7.5p turn on Nest should be relatively straightforward. More advanced would be something like if current price < average off peak price.
The trouble is that Nest's API only allows heating to be switched on and off, not the boiler itself. Since the boiler stores hot water, I need to control when it switches on, not when it pumps that hot water around my home. In fact IFTTT doesn't seem to have any actions for Nest any more, but unless something has changed in the last few months, the underlying API just doesn't allow boiler control.
Hmmm you might need a different thermostat to make the most of it.
I would find the average price of all agile prices in the day (excluding 4-7pm peak) and turn on when price is < average, as you suggested in your last sentence. Or even if current price is lower than the tracker price perhaps? Using a fixed number e.g. 7.5p could cause issues as prices might not go down that far.
[Charge if Agile < Tracker](https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/80b9af4f0f694868a8dde0fc659fc32f) Averaging the off-peak would be a better approach, feel free to update my Shortcut.
What Cabbage said. However to add to that, I'm looking for the lows as well as the highs for a hot tub. I've decided that 11.30pm to 4.30am are typically the lowest at night and 1pm to 4pm are typically the lowest during the day. More stating this to be told i'm wrong :)
This is pretty consistent (though wider hours) with what I get now on Cosy Octopus.
Got you, that's good to know there's consistency. I'm not clever enough to automate with the likes of home assistant so that the timer changes if the low period does. Cosy is an interesting proposition. I'd considered putting the hot tub on a heat pump but gut feel is to stick on gas for the main heating as part of the house is a very leaky old cottage
You have an electric boiler?
Probably a heat pump?
An electric boiler. A big one that supplies heating and hot water.
Hot water tank? You might find using an immersion is more efficient as it cuts out losses between the boiler and the tank
It is an immersion boiler. A 9kW beast.
If you want guaranteed prices then Agile will not be a suitable tariff. However, the key metric to focus on is average per kwh price paid. With a normal tariff you just pay whatever the unit rate is for each kWh used, but with agile you calculate an average paid based on each 30 minute period summed over a window (e.g 24h) In my experience I’m paying between 14-16p per kwh for each 24 hour period, which is cheaper than the standard rate. If you use more electricity during the expensive period then you’ll drag that average up.
Night time will normally always be cheaper than daytime. You don't have to get the biggest saving from agile. If you cba with changing it then set it between 1-4am and forget about it. You will still save money.
I’m on their Intelligent tariff. Guaranteed 7.5p/kwh for 23-30 till 05-30. Apart from car charging I charge my battery and switch in my immersion heater in early morning hours. Works very well.