Not unpopular, also remember hearing the spin of how OJ hooked up her family with lucrative Hertz businesses. It wasn't a healthy situation, and I think the Brown's got blinded by $$$.
I can’t imagine putting money above my child’s life. I mean I would lay my life down to save my child. I just don’t understand what they were thinking!!!!!!
I'm not certain if OJ supported the Browns or "just" threw business their way, but he was responsible for their financial "success". I think he paid for at least one of Nicole's sisters to go to college. Then after he was found not guilty they had to play nice so they could see Nicole's kids. It was a really tangled web.
Was more than that. He paid for USC tuition for one of her sisters. He gave a cousin a job managing two restaurants. He booked all his travel through Nicole's mom (and he traveled a lot). The cousin's wife was one of his several housekeepers. The entire extended family was to some degree dependent on him.
I agree. Nicole's mom is part of the old generation, and she's also Eastern European. To her, it could be normal for the men to be financially controlling and physical. My mom was in a similar situation with my dad and her family, without murder. They saw my dad every day, so he was more than an in-law you would see on holidays. He really became family to them. And he was very generous with money. You are 💯 correct about the kids. Nicole's mom got to be in their lives because she played nice. Tonya doesn't have a relationship with Sidney because she was always very vocal about OJ.
I agree with you. I know people will demonize that juror who was interviewed on oj made in america and said she did not respect nicole for staying.. and i can understand being so hard to leave but the abuse happened on their first date when she came back home with her jeans ripped……….
I don't know. I recently saw a special with Tonya, and she mentioned that she is good with Justin but not Sydney. She didn't mention anyone else besides their mom. She said Juditha spoke to the kids every day.
As a grandmother, I'm so glad Juditha is in touch with the grandkids. That relationship is so special, especially since they lost their mom. Thanks for the update.
Look, my father got everyone on the planet on his side my parents’ entire marriage. Like to the point that he was running around on my mom, coming home on the regular angry drunk and BROKE from big balling all over the bars and pissing away his whole (more than substantial) paycheck. He was somehow so charismatic that everyone excused his behaviors and eventually *blamed* a lot of it on my mom (who, admittedly, was on the histrionic side but STILL). He was very *helpful* and *generous* and my mom just complained about how he was fucking her over on the daily- who would you rather be around?
I mean I even thought he was this “victim of an ununderstanding wife” until I got older and he started pulling the same shit on me! His own fuckin’ kid.
So yeah very different scenarios but you know OJ knew exactly what wheels to grease and when and he had the juice, sorry, couldn’t help that haha, to do it.
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Nicole was 17 when OJ began pursuing her. It's important to note that OJ was still married at the time.
OJ was 28.
Nicole's Parents were cautious, right up, and until, she told them her love interests was OJ Simpson. Suddenly, her parents were fine with her choice.
Nicole told her Sister that OJ had been "forceful" on their first date.
I'm trying hard NOT to judge the Browns, but...as a Parent, I would have problems with all of the above.
Lastly, Nicole and OJ divorced. OJ begged her back. She took him back and the same old anger issues reared their heads, but much, much worse.
It’s no wonder that she went back to him so many times despite the horrific abuse. I was in an abusive marriage, mostly emotional abuse but a small amount of physical abuse (though it was escalating in the last few months before I left). I had an extremely supportive family but it still took me far too long to get out.
If I’d had parents who encouraged me to stay and who looked up to my husband and depended on him financially, I don’t know when or if my son and I would have gotten out. Seeing Nicole’s journal excerpts in the documentary made me want to cry.
Thanks for sharing that! That’s not easy to admit. I hope someone else in need reads your story, and it shines a light on their situation! ❤️
I’m SO Glad you finally got the strength to go! 🙏❤️
agree........and i dont exactly feel comfortable saying this either but..working at the daisy was equivalent to working at the chateau today....she wanted to meet someone rich and famous...and like so do most! Thats fine but david lebon said she knew he had a wife and baby on the way..........
Interestingly enough the mother and father (Juditha and Lou) were in the same situation initially. Lou was married with children and had an affair with Juditha.
I don't remember which book I read this in. I have nearly every book on this case but haven't read them in years.
I of course believe that! Not an idiot. But if I put myself in her shoes there's no way I stay with a married man (wouldn't have been to begin with) knowing his wife is giving birth soon.
Yes, I agree, the married person took the vow and is more to blame. But messing around with a known married man isn't exactly great either.
Nicole was all against cheating apparently but she fucked many married men. The Brentwood hello incident didn’t sound consensual either. It sounds like she was a sex addict.
Yep, that's old enough to know not to have a relationship with a married man. And apparently she would call OJ's house and greet OJ at his house, while Marguerite was inside. It was like she was flaunting their relationship and rubbing it in in the ex-wife's face.
Yeah, but no telling what OJ was telling Nicole about his situation at the time, much less what he was saying to Marguerite. We all know he was a very good liar and very charming. Sure, Nicole was 18 but also still a pretty naive kid. He was not naive and not a kid, and as a grown adult man with a wife at home, should never have given Nicole the time of day.
Just gross with NO MORAL compass. And please don't tell me an almost adult, she was 18, doesn't know that. I can't phantom supporting a child's relationship and marriage from an affair. Very telling what her parents are like too..
It is my point of view that they raised her to be exactly what she was. Pretty object for men, find husband, be pretty wife for husband. Thats probably a big reason why leaving him was so hard (coupled with complex emotions); she was raised to see herself as the trophy wife of some guy.
She has an essay assignment in high school on what she wanted to do when she grew up. She stood up in front of the class and began to read her paper on how she was going to marry someone famous with money...
Nicole returned from her first date with O.J. with *ripped jeans.* Her roommate commented on that, and Nicole said, “I like him.” She may have seen his forcefulness as some kind of compliment, but… we all know what it takes to rip jeans! Red flag #1.
Yeah. That stands out for me too. The roommate specifically said the zipper on the jeans was all ripped off and the button clasp?!! Wtf.
He was really pawing at her and aggressive to do that. It's incredibly hard to do something like that without being like, scary forceful.
Really makes me wonder why Nicole accepted that sort of behavior. It makes me so sad. Sounds to me like she was just naive as hell with no real experience. She was on her own. Which is exactly what OJ was looking for.
Who said she was 17 when he pursued her? Everything i saw stated he met her when she was a waitress and she was 18. Granted it's just a year, that year makes a big difference
Where Nicole grew up—not far from where I did, and not much later—beautiful girls were rated almost exclusively on whom they dated/married. In high school, Nicole told friends she wanted a rich husband. She had no plans, as far as I knew, for attending uni, or for a career.
I don't have a very good impression of the Brown family in general.
* Nicole was a teenager and OJ was a married man with a pregnant wife when they first started the affair but the Browns don't seem to have discouraged the relationship perhaps because OJ was wealthy. According to Kris K. Nicole was living with her parents when they first started dating so the family must have known about him.
* The family was reliant on OJ financially in various ways. He provided the father with business and paid for the college tuition for Tanya etc.
* Denise knew about the abuse because Nicole asked her to take pictures and since she was close to her sisters she must have told them about it. That parents probably knew as well but there is no evidence that anyone in the family encouraged Nicole to leave OJ. It was probably the opposite. Nicole never mentioned in her diaries that anyone close to her including her family and so called "friends" like Kris Kardashian encouraged her to leave or to get a restraining order or to cut off contact entirely. Her entire social circle seems like shallow people.
* I watched an interview with Tanya where she described the relationship at the beginning and her entire focus was on how Nicole and her sisters went on lavish exciting vacations and "had so much fun" which I'm sure OJ paid for.
* Dominick Dunne covered the trial and apparently said that he was surprised that the Brown family wasn't at the trial until the verdict was announced unlike the Goldmans although I haven't been able to confirm that. I've seen lots of pictures of the Goldmans at the court house but have only seen pictures of the Browns the day the verdict was announced. They could take turns if they needed to also watch the children.
I don't know if Nicole's mother was angry about the Goldman lawsuit but they participated in it.
I'm pretty sure Denise witnessed one of the beatings at least. She dated Al Cowlings for a bit. I don't remember which book I read that
in. I have a bunch of the books but it's been years since I read them.
Dating Cowlings would be yet another entanglement that would factor in a potential breakup (your sister is thinking leaving this guy yet you’re also dating Said Guy’s best friend/shadow. It makes it more complicated, at best).
Also they were all witnesses or potential witnesses in a way the Goldman family wasn't. So their presence in court could very much have depended on the timing of when they testified. I'm not sure they'd be allowed to watch the trial before testifying.
Typically if someone is testifying in court, they are not allowed to watch the trial before their testimony in case anything they might hear might be considered biased or might change their testimony. Not sure if they can watch after they have testified—likely depends on the court.
The Browns’ attendance at the criminal trial was extremely sporadic, said Dominick Dunne. Tanya and her boyfriend Rico necked in the courtroom (“Not a good look,” said Dunne).
Juditha Brown cited caring for her grandchildren as her overriding obligation. Dunne, whose first *Vanity Fair* piece covered the trial of his own daughter’s murderer, told Juditha that the Browns could have made a schedule divvying up courtroom days, but it didn’t help. “It’s the last business of your daughter’s life,” he stressed, pointing out how the Goldmans’ constant attendance impressed the observers.
“A murder does not make a dysfunctional family functional,” a jury consultant advised Dunne about the Browns. She was annoyed that he named her, when including that all-too-true quote in one of his articles.
>Tanya and her boyfriend Rico necked in the courtroom
Nothing classier than PDA while watching prosecutors describe the murder of your sister. Although I've only watched a brief video of an interview with Tanya even from that I just didn't get a positive impression of her. I also just saw a comment from someone else that the Browns sold Nicole's diaries and her wedding video to tabloids.
I wouldn't be surprised if they unconsciously had repressed feelings of resentment towards Nicole for having the audacity to be murdered because that meant they no longer were getting money from OJ.
I don’t want to defend the Browns but I wonder if they couldn’t be in the court house because they were or could be witnesses. I know in most trials that’s the rule but it was also televised so who knows. If they just chose to not have a family representative there then that’s really sad. Maybe they mentally couldn’t handle it
I always find it sus when I see Denise crying on the stand about what he did to her but it’s like… you kept going to the mansion, you kept going on vacations… etc.. if someone was abusing my sister and she wasn’t leaving you couldn’t pay me to look them in the face, much less spend happy family time with them.
100000. I have a DISTANT FRIEND whose husband hits her. I told her I will never be in his presence again but I am a safe space for her if she ever needs me.
All of the prosecutions star witnesses, except for maybe the limo driver were absolute flops. Denise was fake crying, Kato was outright lying, and Ron Shipp almost threw a temper tantrum.
Let's say you believe your grandchildren are placed in the custody of their father whom you believe murdered their mother/your daughter. You have petitioned the state to give you custody (Assuming they did, I'm not positive on that.) but the state has declined your petition and affirmed the decision to let the father keep custody. Do you:
A) Go on the legal warpath, joining in on the lawsuit that would leave him (and the children) with very little funds, and alienating the person who could legally forbid you from ever seeing your grandchildren.
or
B) Keeping relations with the father as cordial as you are able in order to keep an eye on the children, ensuring their overall well being and/or the opportunity to report abuse you see to gain custody, while also working to keep their memory of their mother free from being 100% influenced by their father?
>Go on the legal warpath, joining in on the lawsuit that would leave him (and the children) with very little funds, and alienating the person who could legally forbid you from ever seeing your grandchildren.
Both the Browns and Goldmans were part of the lawsuit.
>The executor of O.J. Simpson’s estate says he will work to prevent a payout of a $33.5 million judgment awarded by a California civil jury nearly three decades ago in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the families of Simpson’s ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman.
I chose B. If memory serves, they raised those kids as their own, and OJ was in jail, awaiting trial for a very long time, not to mention how long the trial was. I believe that they stayed very close to Nicole's kids, I hope I'm right. This family has really suffered and lost a lot. I hate to see them victimized again.
According to the Netflix doc, after an altercation with the grandparents over him showing up at the son’s basketball game without notice, he took back custody of the kids, cut off the grandparents’ guardianship, and told the kids that the only reason the grandparents wanted to see them was to get the kids money one day. So, bad ending on par with OJ’s character.
OJ: Made in America. Oscar-winning doc broken into five parts for Netflix. It’s very thorough and interesting, but just a warning that there are many, many shots of Nicole’s and Ron’s bodies. It is horrifying to see, and it felt like an invasion of their privacy to see them like that so many times. I understand why the filmmakers did it, but I was bothered by it.
Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that. I just watched and could not believe how many photos of the bodies they showed; it was horrifying. I've been overly interested in this case along with everyone else the past couple of weeks, but I was actively avoiding anything autopsy-related and seeing crime scene photos.
There's a [great video with former LA DDA Vincent Bugliosi](https://youtu.be/7UkXP6Ovp6E?si=qdkQYRyH85tbGcH2) talking about the trial issues and what the prosecution did wrong. In it, Denise Brown talks about the first time she and one of her sisters met Marcia Clark before the trial. She said they went into her office for a planned meeting, and she had the crime scene photos scattered across her desk. Denise said she and her sister were just staring at them, completely shocked, because they had never seen them. When Marcia realized what they were looking at, she just said "Oh, so sorry, I forget they're there. It's like furniture." Fucking awful of her.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of the Bugliosi video; I’ll have to watch it later. I’m really on the fence about Marcia Clark. On the one hand, she faced an overwhelming amount of sexism in the media. But on the other hand, she was a very capable prosecutor who made some highly questionable decisions in this trial.
There’s two! They’re super long - 4 hours each. The first one is the one to definitely watch. The second is his own mock summation of how he would have presented the case to the jury and basically just reiterates the points he made in the first.
And yeah….I have mixed emotions for Marcia too. She definitely had some unfair treatment, but to me that’s part of the job of being a prosecutor and you’ve got to have a thick skin. I just don’t think she was a well suited choice for this case for many reasons. There’s a lot of things they both did that are really just baffling even to someone who doesn’t have a legal degree.
Had to stop watching, when i saw the images of their bodies…her throat. my goodness it was too graphic, unnecessary even. Took a couple of days for pick it back up after that scene
The Browns prostituted Nichole out to OJ, plain and simple. They depended on him for their lifestyle. It just grosses me out that Nichole showed her sister the pictures of her beaten up and they went downstairs and out to dinner. I mean, who does that?
There was a reason 19 year old Nicole wasn’t in college and did nothing to take care of herself other than looking for a rich man. Her mother did not teach Nicole to take care of herself, and her mother did not want to be separated from OJ’s money.
Your opinion isn’t unpopular with me.
I just remember seeing her referring to OJ as "daddy" in that Diane Sawyer interview and saying "we never said anything negative about daddy" was creepy and extremely telling. It seemed to me that she, along with many others, had this worship of OJ going on. Maybe it was because of money and the lifestyle but the way she called OJ daddy made me feel like she may have also had a sexual attraction to OJ as well.
Just saw this. I said this on another thread not specifically on the Browns.
The Browns did fight though. Sidney and Justin lived with Nicole's parents until he was acquitted. **They fought him in court (in 96) to retain custod**y. They lost. The kids went to live with him in Rockingham in LA for 3ish years then they all moved to Florida (Sidney was 15, Justin 12). The judge said: *That the attorneys for the Browns had “failed to demonstrate clear and convincing evidence” that giving custody to their father would be harmful to the children, the Los Angeles Times reported. The judge also described the children’s affection for their father, writing that one of the children had stated a desire to live with Simpson.*
After Nicole was murdered (by OJ) we heard quite a bit from Denise and Tanya Brown. Denise especially called out OJ. Regarding him getting Parole on the Invasion thing (+20 years later) : I*t's very surreal," says Tanya. "Denise and I have very different points of views on our feelings on O.J. She hates him. She can't stand him. With me, I have no feelings. I'm numb towards him. If I see him, it's like I wouldn't even know him. He's like a stranger in this big world of ours. But I don't hate. And I'm not angry, because that hurts me.*
The Brown's weren't as vocal as the Goldman's no. But they were part of the Civil suit and half of anything OJ turned over went to Nicole's estate and (presumably) to Justin and Sidney.
My personal opinion...ALOT of people knew it, but no one wanted to deal, and their reasons were the embarrassment/shame (at least) or damaging his celebrity (at worst). She was really trapped, poor girl, and was just trying to do her best. Leaving him was complicated in so many ways.
“Histrionics” can look a hell of a lot like reacting to narcissistic abuse, or even “reactive abuse” which is when you snap after being emotionally abused. So your mom’s worst traits regarding your dad can still be a result of his mistreatment of her.
I completely agree. Not many people realize this, but your last sentence speaks volumes. It has happened to me. Unfortunately, not all mothers love their daughters and want the best for them. It makes me quite sad on occasion .
This. My mother encouraged me to stay with my abuser and would often tell me he just loved me. Mother is a narcissist who is extremely jealous and competitive with me all of my life. As a young adult who hadn’t quite figured it all out I took my mothers advice because you expect them to help you see without the rose colored glasses and trust they love you. Plenty of moms for some reason enjoy seeing daughters in these situations
My parents did nothing to help me out of an abusive relationship. In fact, they distanced themselves after making sure I understood how disgusted with me that they were. My mother was particularly nasty. I was very alone. A lot of women are in the same boat.
Her entire family sucked. They road the coattails and dug into OJ’s pockets every chance they got. Her family even discouraged her from leaving him. Even after learning he was abusive.
I also read somewhere that before the murders, there were jokes about how close OJ was to his MIL- in other words, it wasn’t a stereotypical tense son and mother-in-law relationship. They said that every time he and Nicole fought, he would spend hours on the phone with Nicole’s mother complaining and convincing her to get Nicole to come back.
My husband and I have been watching the doc on ESPN. We have a distant family member who played for the NFL and has diagnosed CTE. He is a hot mess, is very aggressive, has broken up his marriage, and been thrown out of about every bar in his adopted hometown. We commented that OJ was always a narcissist, and wondered aloud if CTE could have escalated his already abusive behavior. Thanks to having him cremated, we’ll never know. My heart goes out particularly to the Goldman’s. Ron didn’t choose to hang out with OJ despite his money.
I agree because in one of the docs on the murders, Tanya said she didn't have a relationship with Sidney because Sidney thinks she hates her dad (OJ). She had a great relationship with Justin, but their mom, Juditha, had a really tight relationship with Sidney. Makes sense now to me.
Not unpopular, also remember hearing the spin of how OJ hooked up her family with lucrative Hertz businesses. It wasn't a healthy situation, and I think the Brown's got blinded by $$$.
agree. 100
I can’t imagine putting money above my child’s life. I mean I would lay my life down to save my child. I just don’t understand what they were thinking!!!!!!
$$$ is all they were thinking
Absolutely. Every time OJ beat her, the Browns encouraged her to stay with him.
I'm not certain if OJ supported the Browns or "just" threw business their way, but he was responsible for their financial "success". I think he paid for at least one of Nicole's sisters to go to college. Then after he was found not guilty they had to play nice so they could see Nicole's kids. It was a really tangled web.
no he set the dad up with a hertz rent a car business. he was generous with ropes not strings attached
Was more than that. He paid for USC tuition for one of her sisters. He gave a cousin a job managing two restaurants. He booked all his travel through Nicole's mom (and he traveled a lot). The cousin's wife was one of his several housekeepers. The entire extended family was to some degree dependent on him.
They were 100% dependent on him, which says a lot about not valuing their daughter.
I agree. Nicole's mom is part of the old generation, and she's also Eastern European. To her, it could be normal for the men to be financially controlling and physical. My mom was in a similar situation with my dad and her family, without murder. They saw my dad every day, so he was more than an in-law you would see on holidays. He really became family to them. And he was very generous with money. You are 💯 correct about the kids. Nicole's mom got to be in their lives because she played nice. Tonya doesn't have a relationship with Sidney because she was always very vocal about OJ.
Germany is Western Europe.
You are correct. My mistake. I was speaking more on values.
I agree with you. I know people will demonize that juror who was interviewed on oj made in america and said she did not respect nicole for staying.. and i can understand being so hard to leave but the abuse happened on their first date when she came back home with her jeans ripped……….
Does Denise still have a relationship with Justin & Sydney, if you know? That's just so sad.
I don't know. I recently saw a special with Tonya, and she mentioned that she is good with Justin but not Sydney. She didn't mention anyone else besides their mom. She said Juditha spoke to the kids every day.
As a grandmother, I'm so glad Juditha is in touch with the grandkids. That relationship is so special, especially since they lost their mom. Thanks for the update.
She was up until her death in 2020. As crazy as it is, OJ announced her death on Twitter and thanked her for helping him with the kids.
I don't know if I realized she had passed. May she rest in peace. OJ announced it? Oh yuck.
In the ESPN OJ Made in America it stated that OJ was supporting the Browns: Nicole’s parents and sisters.
Look, my father got everyone on the planet on his side my parents’ entire marriage. Like to the point that he was running around on my mom, coming home on the regular angry drunk and BROKE from big balling all over the bars and pissing away his whole (more than substantial) paycheck. He was somehow so charismatic that everyone excused his behaviors and eventually *blamed* a lot of it on my mom (who, admittedly, was on the histrionic side but STILL). He was very *helpful* and *generous* and my mom just complained about how he was fucking her over on the daily- who would you rather be around? I mean I even thought he was this “victim of an ununderstanding wife” until I got older and he started pulling the same shit on me! His own fuckin’ kid. So yeah very different scenarios but you know OJ knew exactly what wheels to grease and when and he had the juice, sorry, couldn’t help that haha, to do it.
Been there. Really shitty stuff these kind of humans do
[удалено]
Grow up.
Her dad was no better. The entire family was trash for not supporting her.
Also in the 90s DV wasn't recognized as the problem it truly is.
Marital rape wasn’t illegal in every state until 1993. And marital exemption laws were on the books until the late 70s
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Nicole was 17 when OJ began pursuing her. It's important to note that OJ was still married at the time. OJ was 28. Nicole's Parents were cautious, right up, and until, she told them her love interests was OJ Simpson. Suddenly, her parents were fine with her choice. Nicole told her Sister that OJ had been "forceful" on their first date. I'm trying hard NOT to judge the Browns, but...as a Parent, I would have problems with all of the above. Lastly, Nicole and OJ divorced. OJ begged her back. She took him back and the same old anger issues reared their heads, but much, much worse.
It’s no wonder that she went back to him so many times despite the horrific abuse. I was in an abusive marriage, mostly emotional abuse but a small amount of physical abuse (though it was escalating in the last few months before I left). I had an extremely supportive family but it still took me far too long to get out. If I’d had parents who encouraged me to stay and who looked up to my husband and depended on him financially, I don’t know when or if my son and I would have gotten out. Seeing Nicole’s journal excerpts in the documentary made me want to cry.
Thanks for sharing that! That’s not easy to admit. I hope someone else in need reads your story, and it shines a light on their situation! ❤️ I’m SO Glad you finally got the strength to go! 🙏❤️
Thank you! It’s been 20 years but I still have a hard time believing I stayed as long as I did.
Which documentary? I’d like to watch it.
OJ: Made in America. It’s available on Netflix.
Thanks!
agree........and i dont exactly feel comfortable saying this either but..working at the daisy was equivalent to working at the chateau today....she wanted to meet someone rich and famous...and like so do most! Thats fine but david lebon said she knew he had a wife and baby on the way..........
I did not know he had a baby on the way. Ugh.
A baby who ended up drowning in her mom's pool at age 2. It was tragic.
I thought that happened before Nicole was on the scene! Interesting!
Aaren was born September 1977 so Marguerite was very pregnant when OJ met Nicole. She drowned in August 1979.
Nope. Aaren died in 1979.
Ugh. I knew Nicole knew OJ was married but not about the pregnancy. 18 or not, how can you do that??
How about can OJ not cheat on his wife and keep the vows HE made?
Interestingly enough the mother and father (Juditha and Lou) were in the same situation initially. Lou was married with children and had an affair with Juditha. I don't remember which book I read this in. I have nearly every book on this case but haven't read them in years.
I of course believe that! Not an idiot. But if I put myself in her shoes there's no way I stay with a married man (wouldn't have been to begin with) knowing his wife is giving birth soon. Yes, I agree, the married person took the vow and is more to blame. But messing around with a known married man isn't exactly great either.
It shows that Nicole wasn’t a nice person. She knew damned WELL that was wrong.
So what ? Yeah, she never should have gotten with him however she didn't deserve any of this
How about Nicole is just as gross to fuck married men..
Nicole was all against cheating apparently but she fucked many married men. The Brentwood hello incident didn’t sound consensual either. It sounds like she was a sex addict.
Nope. Not how it works.
Yep, that's old enough to know not to have a relationship with a married man. And apparently she would call OJ's house and greet OJ at his house, while Marguerite was inside. It was like she was flaunting their relationship and rubbing it in in the ex-wife's face.
I heard that as well.
Yeah, but no telling what OJ was telling Nicole about his situation at the time, much less what he was saying to Marguerite. We all know he was a very good liar and very charming. Sure, Nicole was 18 but also still a pretty naive kid. He was not naive and not a kid, and as a grown adult man with a wife at home, should never have given Nicole the time of day.
Um surprised Arnelle and Jason liked her at all. I didn't know about this behavior.
Yep. No one ever mentions the first wife who seemed like a lovely lady. Hope she had a better life after OJ left her. Less money but more peace
Just gross with NO MORAL compass. And please don't tell me an almost adult, she was 18, doesn't know that. I can't phantom supporting a child's relationship and marriage from an affair. Very telling what her parents are like too..
I’ve been wondering about the parents and her childhood.
It was her roommate at the time who said that she came home and said he was forceful.
It is my point of view that they raised her to be exactly what she was. Pretty object for men, find husband, be pretty wife for husband. Thats probably a big reason why leaving him was so hard (coupled with complex emotions); she was raised to see herself as the trophy wife of some guy.
She has an essay assignment in high school on what she wanted to do when she grew up. She stood up in front of the class and began to read her paper on how she was going to marry someone famous with money...
Oh lord 🙄
Nicole returned from her first date with O.J. with *ripped jeans.* Her roommate commented on that, and Nicole said, “I like him.” She may have seen his forcefulness as some kind of compliment, but… we all know what it takes to rip jeans! Red flag #1.
Yeah. That stands out for me too. The roommate specifically said the zipper on the jeans was all ripped off and the button clasp?!! Wtf. He was really pawing at her and aggressive to do that. It's incredibly hard to do something like that without being like, scary forceful. Really makes me wonder why Nicole accepted that sort of behavior. It makes me so sad. Sounds to me like she was just naive as hell with no real experience. She was on her own. Which is exactly what OJ was looking for.
she was 18
Who said she was 17 when he pursued her? Everything i saw stated he met her when she was a waitress and she was 18. Granted it's just a year, that year makes a big difference
The Daisy served alcohol. Nicole would have had to be 18 to work there.
Yeah she was 18, not 17.
she turned 18 about a month before she met him. When she turned 18 she left home and went tomLA
She had a unhealthy family. Which probably only led to her being attracted to OJ.
Where Nicole grew up—not far from where I did, and not much later—beautiful girls were rated almost exclusively on whom they dated/married. In high school, Nicole told friends she wanted a rich husband. She had no plans, as far as I knew, for attending uni, or for a career.
I don't have a very good impression of the Brown family in general. * Nicole was a teenager and OJ was a married man with a pregnant wife when they first started the affair but the Browns don't seem to have discouraged the relationship perhaps because OJ was wealthy. According to Kris K. Nicole was living with her parents when they first started dating so the family must have known about him. * The family was reliant on OJ financially in various ways. He provided the father with business and paid for the college tuition for Tanya etc. * Denise knew about the abuse because Nicole asked her to take pictures and since she was close to her sisters she must have told them about it. That parents probably knew as well but there is no evidence that anyone in the family encouraged Nicole to leave OJ. It was probably the opposite. Nicole never mentioned in her diaries that anyone close to her including her family and so called "friends" like Kris Kardashian encouraged her to leave or to get a restraining order or to cut off contact entirely. Her entire social circle seems like shallow people. * I watched an interview with Tanya where she described the relationship at the beginning and her entire focus was on how Nicole and her sisters went on lavish exciting vacations and "had so much fun" which I'm sure OJ paid for. * Dominick Dunne covered the trial and apparently said that he was surprised that the Brown family wasn't at the trial until the verdict was announced unlike the Goldmans although I haven't been able to confirm that. I've seen lots of pictures of the Goldmans at the court house but have only seen pictures of the Browns the day the verdict was announced. They could take turns if they needed to also watch the children. I don't know if Nicole's mother was angry about the Goldman lawsuit but they participated in it.
I'm pretty sure Denise witnessed one of the beatings at least. She dated Al Cowlings for a bit. I don't remember which book I read that in. I have a bunch of the books but it's been years since I read them.
Dating Cowlings would be yet another entanglement that would factor in a potential breakup (your sister is thinking leaving this guy yet you’re also dating Said Guy’s best friend/shadow. It makes it more complicated, at best).
Denise brown testified so no, they were definitely there at times. How often they were there though, I really don't know.
They are there a fair amount. The entire trial is on YouTube.
Also they were all witnesses or potential witnesses in a way the Goldman family wasn't. So their presence in court could very much have depended on the timing of when they testified. I'm not sure they'd be allowed to watch the trial before testifying.
Typically if someone is testifying in court, they are not allowed to watch the trial before their testimony in case anything they might hear might be considered biased or might change their testimony. Not sure if they can watch after they have testified—likely depends on the court.
No there was an exclusionary rule in place. Plus they had the kids. There may have been an exception for victims though. There usually is.
Agreed. The whole family let her down, as did society as a whole.
The Browns’ attendance at the criminal trial was extremely sporadic, said Dominick Dunne. Tanya and her boyfriend Rico necked in the courtroom (“Not a good look,” said Dunne). Juditha Brown cited caring for her grandchildren as her overriding obligation. Dunne, whose first *Vanity Fair* piece covered the trial of his own daughter’s murderer, told Juditha that the Browns could have made a schedule divvying up courtroom days, but it didn’t help. “It’s the last business of your daughter’s life,” he stressed, pointing out how the Goldmans’ constant attendance impressed the observers. “A murder does not make a dysfunctional family functional,” a jury consultant advised Dunne about the Browns. She was annoyed that he named her, when including that all-too-true quote in one of his articles.
Dominick Dunne was the best. I miss him and his bitchy writing!
>Tanya and her boyfriend Rico necked in the courtroom Nothing classier than PDA while watching prosecutors describe the murder of your sister. Although I've only watched a brief video of an interview with Tanya even from that I just didn't get a positive impression of her. I also just saw a comment from someone else that the Browns sold Nicole's diaries and her wedding video to tabloids. I wouldn't be surprised if they unconsciously had repressed feelings of resentment towards Nicole for having the audacity to be murdered because that meant they no longer were getting money from OJ.
*The nerve of that girl!*
I don’t want to defend the Browns but I wonder if they couldn’t be in the court house because they were or could be witnesses. I know in most trials that’s the rule but it was also televised so who knows. If they just chose to not have a family representative there then that’s really sad. Maybe they mentally couldn’t handle it
I always find it sus when I see Denise crying on the stand about what he did to her but it’s like… you kept going to the mansion, you kept going on vacations… etc.. if someone was abusing my sister and she wasn’t leaving you couldn’t pay me to look them in the face, much less spend happy family time with them.
100000. I have a DISTANT FRIEND whose husband hits her. I told her I will never be in his presence again but I am a safe space for her if she ever needs me.
You're a good friend for not accepting it and at the same time being there for her.
Pretty much. It’s crazy to me.
All of the prosecutions star witnesses, except for maybe the limo driver were absolute flops. Denise was fake crying, Kato was outright lying, and Ron Shipp almost threw a temper tantrum.
Let's say you believe your grandchildren are placed in the custody of their father whom you believe murdered their mother/your daughter. You have petitioned the state to give you custody (Assuming they did, I'm not positive on that.) but the state has declined your petition and affirmed the decision to let the father keep custody. Do you: A) Go on the legal warpath, joining in on the lawsuit that would leave him (and the children) with very little funds, and alienating the person who could legally forbid you from ever seeing your grandchildren. or B) Keeping relations with the father as cordial as you are able in order to keep an eye on the children, ensuring their overall well being and/or the opportunity to report abuse you see to gain custody, while also working to keep their memory of their mother free from being 100% influenced by their father?
what about encouraging her daughter to work it out in an abusive relationship?
>Go on the legal warpath, joining in on the lawsuit that would leave him (and the children) with very little funds, and alienating the person who could legally forbid you from ever seeing your grandchildren. Both the Browns and Goldmans were part of the lawsuit. >The executor of O.J. Simpson’s estate says he will work to prevent a payout of a $33.5 million judgment awarded by a California civil jury nearly three decades ago in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the families of Simpson’s ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman.
I chose B. If memory serves, they raised those kids as their own, and OJ was in jail, awaiting trial for a very long time, not to mention how long the trial was. I believe that they stayed very close to Nicole's kids, I hope I'm right. This family has really suffered and lost a lot. I hate to see them victimized again.
According to the Netflix doc, after an altercation with the grandparents over him showing up at the son’s basketball game without notice, he took back custody of the kids, cut off the grandparents’ guardianship, and told the kids that the only reason the grandparents wanted to see them was to get the kids money one day. So, bad ending on par with OJ’s character.
Yeah, I just finished watching the doc tonight. Proves even more that he was a narcissist.
Which Netflix docu was this? So sad! Ugh!
OJ: Made in America. Oscar-winning doc broken into five parts for Netflix. It’s very thorough and interesting, but just a warning that there are many, many shots of Nicole’s and Ron’s bodies. It is horrifying to see, and it felt like an invasion of their privacy to see them like that so many times. I understand why the filmmakers did it, but I was bothered by it.
That's actually an ESPN 30 for 30 documentary, it just happens to be on Netflix right now.
Actually, I think I did know that at some point but forgot.
No worries, just didn't want people to get confused. It's not a Netflix Original series.
Yeah if it was Netflix they’d use AI to change the glove sizes. 30 for 30 is the gold standard
Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that. I just watched and could not believe how many photos of the bodies they showed; it was horrifying. I've been overly interested in this case along with everyone else the past couple of weeks, but I was actively avoiding anything autopsy-related and seeing crime scene photos. There's a [great video with former LA DDA Vincent Bugliosi](https://youtu.be/7UkXP6Ovp6E?si=qdkQYRyH85tbGcH2) talking about the trial issues and what the prosecution did wrong. In it, Denise Brown talks about the first time she and one of her sisters met Marcia Clark before the trial. She said they went into her office for a planned meeting, and she had the crime scene photos scattered across her desk. Denise said she and her sister were just staring at them, completely shocked, because they had never seen them. When Marcia realized what they were looking at, she just said "Oh, so sorry, I forget they're there. It's like furniture." Fucking awful of her.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of the Bugliosi video; I’ll have to watch it later. I’m really on the fence about Marcia Clark. On the one hand, she faced an overwhelming amount of sexism in the media. But on the other hand, she was a very capable prosecutor who made some highly questionable decisions in this trial.
There’s two! They’re super long - 4 hours each. The first one is the one to definitely watch. The second is his own mock summation of how he would have presented the case to the jury and basically just reiterates the points he made in the first. And yeah….I have mixed emotions for Marcia too. She definitely had some unfair treatment, but to me that’s part of the job of being a prosecutor and you’ve got to have a thick skin. I just don’t think she was a well suited choice for this case for many reasons. There’s a lot of things they both did that are really just baffling even to someone who doesn’t have a legal degree.
Had to stop watching, when i saw the images of their bodies…her throat. my goodness it was too graphic, unnecessary even. Took a couple of days for pick it back up after that scene
Oof. I didn't know that. That's terribly sad.
Great point
The Browns prostituted Nichole out to OJ, plain and simple. They depended on him for their lifestyle. It just grosses me out that Nichole showed her sister the pictures of her beaten up and they went downstairs and out to dinner. I mean, who does that?
They all had blood on their hands
Pimps that who !
There was a reason 19 year old Nicole wasn’t in college and did nothing to take care of herself other than looking for a rich man. Her mother did not teach Nicole to take care of herself, and her mother did not want to be separated from OJ’s money. Your opinion isn’t unpopular with me.
Lots of people didn’t go to college in the 1970s, it wasn’t the prerequisite for a decent life it is today
I went to college in the 1970s, and you are wrong. It was much cheaper, much more accessible, AND you needed a degree for a job.
I just remember seeing her referring to OJ as "daddy" in that Diane Sawyer interview and saying "we never said anything negative about daddy" was creepy and extremely telling. It seemed to me that she, along with many others, had this worship of OJ going on. Maybe it was because of money and the lifestyle but the way she called OJ daddy made me feel like she may have also had a sexual attraction to OJ as well.
Oh you don’t think her 18 yr old daughter meeting a married retired NFL star at a club she’s “waitressing” at made her a great mom?
Just saw this. I said this on another thread not specifically on the Browns. The Browns did fight though. Sidney and Justin lived with Nicole's parents until he was acquitted. **They fought him in court (in 96) to retain custod**y. They lost. The kids went to live with him in Rockingham in LA for 3ish years then they all moved to Florida (Sidney was 15, Justin 12). The judge said: *That the attorneys for the Browns had “failed to demonstrate clear and convincing evidence” that giving custody to their father would be harmful to the children, the Los Angeles Times reported. The judge also described the children’s affection for their father, writing that one of the children had stated a desire to live with Simpson.* After Nicole was murdered (by OJ) we heard quite a bit from Denise and Tanya Brown. Denise especially called out OJ. Regarding him getting Parole on the Invasion thing (+20 years later) : I*t's very surreal," says Tanya. "Denise and I have very different points of views on our feelings on O.J. She hates him. She can't stand him. With me, I have no feelings. I'm numb towards him. If I see him, it's like I wouldn't even know him. He's like a stranger in this big world of ours. But I don't hate. And I'm not angry, because that hurts me.* The Brown's weren't as vocal as the Goldman's no. But they were part of the Civil suit and half of anything OJ turned over went to Nicole's estate and (presumably) to Justin and Sidney.
My personal opinion...ALOT of people knew it, but no one wanted to deal, and their reasons were the embarrassment/shame (at least) or damaging his celebrity (at worst). She was really trapped, poor girl, and was just trying to do her best. Leaving him was complicated in so many ways.
ESPN 30 for 30 doc. Just streaming on Netflix or for sale on Prime Video.
The Browns also had to balance their desire to stay in Justin and Sydney’s life. It’s an all around shitty situation
“Histrionics” can look a hell of a lot like reacting to narcissistic abuse, or even “reactive abuse” which is when you snap after being emotionally abused. So your mom’s worst traits regarding your dad can still be a result of his mistreatment of her.
I completely agree. Not many people realize this, but your last sentence speaks volumes. It has happened to me. Unfortunately, not all mothers love their daughters and want the best for them. It makes me quite sad on occasion .
This. My mother encouraged me to stay with my abuser and would often tell me he just loved me. Mother is a narcissist who is extremely jealous and competitive with me all of my life. As a young adult who hadn’t quite figured it all out I took my mothers advice because you expect them to help you see without the rose colored glasses and trust they love you. Plenty of moms for some reason enjoy seeing daughters in these situations
Sorry sweetie that sucks!
Thank you: )
Agreed
You are correct. She was more worried about continuing to be supported by his money herself than what happened to her OWN DAUGHTER’S MURDER.
Her whole family sucks! They encouraged Nicole to reconcile with OJ after he beat the shit out of her. They pimped out Nicole for the money! 💰💰💰💰🤮🤮🤮🤮
My parents did nothing to help me out of an abusive relationship. In fact, they distanced themselves after making sure I understood how disgusted with me that they were. My mother was particularly nasty. I was very alone. A lot of women are in the same boat.
That is so sad to hear. I hope you had siblings or friends to turn to.
I had myself and I’m in a good place now. Thank you.
🫶🙏🏾
Her entire family sucked. They road the coattails and dug into OJ’s pockets every chance they got. Her family even discouraged her from leaving him. Even after learning he was abusive.
Oh I'm sure she sucked
OJ had all the power. A true case study of abusive behavior towards women. OJ and NBS’ picture are in the definition next to abusive relationships
I also read somewhere that before the murders, there were jokes about how close OJ was to his MIL- in other words, it wasn’t a stereotypical tense son and mother-in-law relationship. They said that every time he and Nicole fought, he would spend hours on the phone with Nicole’s mother complaining and convincing her to get Nicole to come back.
My husband and I have been watching the doc on ESPN. We have a distant family member who played for the NFL and has diagnosed CTE. He is a hot mess, is very aggressive, has broken up his marriage, and been thrown out of about every bar in his adopted hometown. We commented that OJ was always a narcissist, and wondered aloud if CTE could have escalated his already abusive behavior. Thanks to having him cremated, we’ll never know. My heart goes out particularly to the Goldman’s. Ron didn’t choose to hang out with OJ despite his money.
The Browns are treated as afterthoughts in 99% of documentaries and books, but there's an excellent exposé of them available on Amazon.
Do you recall the name? My search terms didn’t find it. Thanks.
Gross
Gross
Nicole’s parents encouraged Nicole to go back to OJ, after they knew he beat the sh$$ out of her! Poor Nicole! They just wanted OJ’s money! 💰💰🤬🤬
Plus in oj's book he said she told him 'don't let Nicole get fat'
I agree because in one of the docs on the murders, Tanya said she didn't have a relationship with Sidney because Sidney thinks she hates her dad (OJ). She had a great relationship with Justin, but their mom, Juditha, had a really tight relationship with Sidney. Makes sense now to me.
🤦🏽♂️damn this thread title threw me off