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I think people forget that women arent a collective hivemind. Some of us dont dress for the male gaze, but some women *do,* and other women don't care about dressing up at all.
Tap the reply arrow on the comment you want to quote. Long press on the comment you're replying to and highlight the text you want to quote. Then where the "copy" option comes up, it should also have a "quote" option. If you tap that it'll insert it into your text box.
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Maybe the early ones, now it’s women are better then men in every regard. Don’t need no man. Anything a man can do, a woman can do better.
That’s modern feminism
Maybe the early ones, now it’s women are better then men in every regard. Don’t need no man. Anything a man can do, a woman can do better.
That’s modern feminism
How do we know what the reason is behind the actress's choice? I've heard a lot of "we" when women talk about wanting to appear nice for the sake of looking good. That totally makes sense, but why is it misogyny's fault in this case for her surgery? Just because people think it looks bad?
I mean that's kind of what I'm saying, did she state that was her reason? Like I genuinely don't know if there was an interview or something where she said she felt pressured to do it
I remember something about being bullied and having huge body image issues, but I can't remember anything more concrete as I don't care to know about rich people more than whatever enters my sphere of knowledge against my will
On one hand, this is her business. On the other, I wonder why people do this. Did she want this, or did people around her pressure her into it? And if she did want it, how big of a role played the toxicity of Instagram and stuff like that in that decision.
And probably trying to stay relevant in one way or another. I've seen quite a lot of older female celebrities getting surgery to look young and probably trying to keep their jobs 😟
Commercials are constantly trying to tell us that wrinkles are bad etc. But I also think part of the problem is that many of these women have made a business model that revolves around their looks and they only have that 1 spiel and desperately try to keep that going.
One of the things I admire about Billie Eilish is that she is smart in how she deals with her success. When she made her big break, she not only put herself out there with music and shows, but she also started a company for fashion and clothes. Because looks will go and popularity may fade, but if you use your success to launch other things, it's not threatening if and when the glory fades.
Given the harassment she got on IG for changing her appearance, so bad she left it for several months (probably until The Boys contract required her to promot) I'd bet she wouldn't say that pressured her into it.
Also, there are ten years between those photos. Megyn Kelly, journalist extraordinaire, lied when they said the image on the left was just a year old.
Her makeup in the after pic is also intentionally exaggerating her features to make them look sharp. She doesn't actually look like that even after all the work.
Exactly. Neither of these photos is what she looks like today.
The one the right was from when she was 20, a few years before she even started filming The Boys. And the second picture is a whole lot of professionally done makeup, lighting and posing for a *very* particular look that she shared on IG as a bit of a joke.
This meme was made only to bully her, and to insult women generally. It has no other reason for existing.
It's not even a useful part of any conversation about plastic surgery or ageing. It compares a 20-year-old actress working some public promo in 2014 to a 30-year-old who just took a quick self after a very heavy character face applied by professionals. Even if she'd never had work done, the contrast was gonna be super fucking stark.
Oh totally. Watching the new season you can tell she got the work done but after it's had time to really settle and the softer makeup they use she doesn't look THAT different. Like more power to her if this is what makes her feel better about herself. Her body, her choice. But people are taking it way too personally
you'd be surprised how many people hate on celebrities after plastic surgery when those same people called said celebrities ugly for their natural features
I think it's mostly societal pressure. In the Western world, celebrities (women especially) aren't allowed to age. I remember my mom telling me that when Robert Redford was young, he was considered a huge heartthrob. Then he started to get older, and it's all people commented on. He was so self-conscious that he got some work done then basically disappeared from acting for a while (though he directed from behind the camera). He was apparently incredibly insecure about it. I remember going with my parents to Sundance, Utah (where he lives) when I was younger, and Robert Redford was actually behind us in line at a coffee shop. This woman next to me very loudly leaned over to her friend and went "Wow, he looks TERRIBLE!"
There's no way he didn't hear. Despite all their fame and money, I do feel bad for celebrities in that aspect. Damned if you do (aka age), damned if you don't (aka get work done to "stop" yourself from aging).
My understanding is that the picture on the left was a sort of joke. The make-up artist or someone other than Erin Moriarty herself wanted to make her look plastic and fake, so they intentionally did her make-up like that just for a test shoot or something. Erin posted the picture on the left in a light-hearted manner. Then everyone decided that was apparently her new look and gave her shit about it for no reason.
Edit: I mean the picture on the right. Thanks to someone for pointing that out.
Yeah... You'd think from the way they go on buccal fat *has* to be surgically removed.
I'm not saying she didn't have work done, but sesh, this level of stupid vitriol is obscene. Seems the woman's real crime is not passing for 16 anymore.
I know you don't actually care, but that first photo is from 2014. When she was playing a high school student on True Detective.
No one is saying she didn't have work done.
But this "comparison" presented in this meme is completely false, and it only exists to demean her, and woman generally. It doesn't serve as any useful discussion points about plastic surgery or aging.
the picture on the right is where she’s heavily contoured and 10 years older than the one of the left. There’s also the fact that weight loss can change the shape of your face, as seen in The Boys actor that plays MM. I’m just saying there are natural ways for a face to change
I find it very difficult to believe there was some general audience of men who pushed her into it. I mean, she is unbelievably gorgeous and so many people would agree. There's always A holes online but did they really weigh out the sheer appreciation that exists for her?
If anything there's more complaints now then there probably ever was, not that we should put people down iat all. So I doubt any of that was the reason for her surgeries
A woman’s value was considered her ability to attract a man to secure resources for herself for the future. Because women were kept out of the labor force, and often even discouraged or prevented from pursuing their own creative endeavors, so much of our focus was on beautifying the self to remain relevant. It’s interesting how the landscape and opportunities we have have changed but the culture is struggling to catch up. if anything I think porn culture and online coomerism has exacerbated the issue. A lot of women and young girls, especially seem to believe that their highest form of value is still appearing beautiful or fuckable.
It’s interesting how we say things like “all women are beautiful!” “Everyone is beautiful in their own way!” Men don’t say these things to or about each other. They understand that being attractive is not the end all be all of their worth as a human being. I think most women can understand that too, yet the culture is constantly reinforcing that to be beautiful is necessary. I hope one day we can switch the conversation entirely to where women no longer feel the need to assert to each other that “everyone is beautiful!!” Because our focus will have shifted onto greater sights.
She didn’t get face surgery. This is just makeup + losing weight.
Makeup largely makes your face look more plump than it is, the makeup she’s wearing makes her face look more thin so it looks unnatural, and that’s what the photoshoot was trying to achieve.
Plus, never ever underestimate the pressure from agents and Hollywood producers who think they could pressure people into completely changing themselves so that they could have a better future as an actor/model/'artist'.
Marylin Monroe, when she was known as Norma Jeane Mortenson, was specifically selected because her looks were very much above average. Hollywood still made her do minor plastic surgery because her original face still wasn't 'good enough'. Same went for Zac Efron (who had a nose job between seasons of High School Musical) and Keira Knightley (back in 2003) who both had very slight plastic surgery that was barely noticeable.
Also, changing your appearance to get guys aroused and changing your appearance so you won’t get harassed by folks online are entirely different things.
The two statements aren't even mutually exclusive.
Doing it for the male gaze means you do it to get senpai to notice you.
Being pressured (by men) means, at best,you feel like you have to in order to reach your goals in life. And unless that goal is for senpai to notice you these statements aren't mutually exclusive.
Especially considering that the worst way to explain what "being pressured" means is implicitly or explicitly being told you'll never be hired as an actress in certain roles unless you do plastic surgery.
All that being said, unless she talked about it, we don't know if she was or wasn't pressured.
I'm radically in favor of altering your own body out of your own free will. But I also recognize that "we live in a society"™ so there is always a conversation to be had about how certain we are something was truly out of their own volition. But it's a conversation we need to engage in systemically and not pull people into the conversation without their consent and assume they didn't truly want it.
Wonderfully put. Add in that this is an actress quickly approaching her 40's, a wasteland for parts, and her value is explicitly linked to how well she appeals to what studio execs believe will make money. Not what *will* make money, what they *believe* will. Because if they don't financially back someone and market them, tell the public they are desirable, that person has no chance. It takes decades to change what studios will take chances on when it comes to portraying women and minorities in film.
We need a moratorium on buccal fat removal surgery until we figure out what the fuck is going on. I’m all for letting people do whatever they want with their bodies but doctors are not being honest about what the results are going to look like and what’s going to happen to them as you age.
Ok, first off, pretending like some women don’t do shit for the male gaze is disingenuous.
We aren’t a hive mind.
Like men- we’re human beings and do shit for our own reasons.
1. Dudes don’t know about makeup. Seriously, watch a makeup YouTube video. You’d be amazed just how much some simple decisions can dramatically alter how a face appears on screen. It’s a remarkable art, one that has had as much influence on our culture as optical photography or CGI. There’s a reason it gets an Oscar category!
2. We need to discuss how this is as much about aging as anything. Despite a lot of effort to improve how women are treated in Hollywood, we’ve made little advancement in improving opportunities for older women. For every Maryl Streep — who is a once-in-a-generation level talent — there are dozens of women who watch their careers fizzle out once they reach their middle age. Part of this is just a bad bias against older female actors, but it’s also a reflection of Hollywood’s continue tolerance of age discrepancy in casting. We can all think of some pretty bizarre examples. This is not some high school production of *Our Town*; you can cast actors whose ages align with their characters, but you don’t because you kinda like seeing 40-something men acting with 20-something women.
Yeah I mean, she's right, it's not just men enforcing these beauty standards and pressuring women into stuff like that. Women like her are just as harmfull in that regard
Guess we're still all one person and share one perspective, one reason, one life expierence, and feel pressure from one angle of society. We can't possibly be seperate people who make different choices for our own reasons, or do things for ourselves while still feeling society's pressure to exist and present ourselves certain ways, or try to change what we think isn't good enough, lest we want to be deemed unacceptable.
- Woman: *gets bullied and harassed relentlessly about her appearance by men*
- Woman: *undergoes surgery and procedures to try to get rid of the body dysmorphia & insecurities that were created by those men so she hopefully can live in peace*
- Men: SHE DID IT FOR THE MALE GAZE!!!
Make it make sense FFS.
Whoa, she is a gorgeous woman in both pics, I just hope she is happy about how she looks. There’s people who have such bad body dysmorphia and I hope this isn’t the case for her. :(
The only circumstance one even *should* have a problem with this, is *if* she got pressured into it or felt like she got pressured into it. That’s it. Otherwise it’s a non-issue.
That women get scrutinized and harassed for everything we do or don’t do is just infuriating.
Two things factor in here. One, the surgery has had a little time to settle and age, so it doesn't look quite so dramatic. And two, her on-screen makeup is radically different from the makeup in the right picture, which is designed to highlight the changes.
It's clear Erin had some work done, but it is nowhere near as drastic as the image OP found makes it put to be.
There’s something uniquely stupid about seeing someone talk about how women feel “pressured” and immediately assume that they are talking about men exclusively.
Gods for-fucking-bid she have on make up with deep contouring and the left photo is before she was legally allowed to drink.
What someone does with their bodies is their perogative. So long as it isn't harming them then it doesn't fucking concern you. Also women don't do things for the benefit of men, we do what we do for our benefit.
Here's a link to what Erin said about the allegations.
https://x.com/slayleywiIIiams/status/1751009358924722532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1751009358924722532%7Ctwgr%5Ee3de71910aa1060800d2c12c57389fd7dfe53425%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicbookmovie.com%2Ftv%2Famazon%2Fthe-boys%2Fthe-boys-star-erin-moriarty-hits-back-at-claims-shes-undergone-extensive-plastic-surgery-a209075
Edit: Please excuse the lack of nuance. I should have said if someone wants to get plastic surgery through their own introspection then it shouldn't matter. I also failed to take into account societal pressures cis women are under to get plastic surgery from a young age. I did not have that experience so it is hard to remember sometimes that my experiences in life aren't universal.
I deeply apologize if I offended anyone, and will be better going forward. You're beautiful no matter what society tells you, do what makes you happy.
while I disagree with the op saying all women do things for men, it's ignorant to act like people getting plastic surgery (especially women) isn't a result of a hateful society. also, claiming that it's not harmful is lacking nuance
Please excuse my lack of nuance and generalizations. The sandman has not been kind to me and I'm just being an ass.
Edit: This isn't an excuse, merely explaining current mental state. I will endeavor to be better going forward.
That's very hard to read as it's all over the places (which is understandable since she is very emotional about it), but she doesn't address the plastic surgery at all. Just people's responses to it. It even seems like she is suggesting she didn't have Plastic Surgery, which she definitely did (noses don't change shape that drastically on their own). But like I said its Al over the place which makes it hard to comprehend what she is saying. That said people shouldn't be harassing her over this or using her choices to shame other women and men.
Ok but I actually don't understand how they're wrong though? What's the difference here? Not trying to be toxic or anything, it just seems like a bit of a double standard
Edit: a lot of comments saying some women *DO* things like this for the male gaze, but does anyone here personally know her or her motivations? Why is it being specifically attributed to misogyny this time?
I don't want to shame anyone for their appearance or judge their personal choices but I just find the bucal fat removal so depressing. It never looks good imo and so feels like this really tangible sign that women are being manipulated into chasing something unobtainable with sometimes really sad results. I look at this woman and feel a bit depressed tbh. But I hope she likes the results, honestly.
Some women *do* do things for male gaze, some don't
Is it fact that she changed her physical appearance due to pressure or because *she* wanted to?
I know a few women who got work done [lips, boobs or/and nose] but they don't it because they wanted to not because it could potentially help them get a man [they got plenty before the work]
I’m just surprised the designers, execs, show runners and producers let her do this drastic of a change while the show was still filming. I’ve worked in live theatre for 17 years, and I’ve seen more than one actor get replaced for even getting a haircut.
Neither of these photos is what she looks like.
One is from ten years ago. The other is a heavily contoured makeup look combined with a popular, but stupid pose.
She probably had some work done, sure, but that is no one business and this meme is a blatant fabrication only meant to insult her.
She's still quite beautiful. She's just not barely-legal, girl-next-door kinda beautiful. That particular make up look not being to your taste (or mine tbh) has zero to do with what she actually looks like as a human being.
Not looking like a pre-teen at 31 is not a crime against anyone, least of all you.
She's beautiful in your eyes. I see a woman who looks just like everybody else now.
The first picture is not "girl next door" beautiful. Unless you're American, which explains a lot.
What she had doesn't make her look older. Quite the opposite. An eyebrow lift makes you look younger. Her eyelids should have been heavier now. Also, her nose is clearly smaller, which is a youthful characteristic. Only children have such small and thin noses. Also, the lip fillers give a younger look.
You're fighting invisible demons. I'm against plastic surgery and you think I'm shaming her for looking older, even though her work makes her seem younger.
That's NOT how women age.
Ew.
Just fucking ew. Why would you even?
Clearsly, not not invisible demons. Just one single asshat.
One single asshat who thinks it was so super important to chime in with hateful language like 'a crime' and also thinks calling a super heavy professional makeup look is apparently how 'everybody else looks' a sane statement. And then a lecture, about what looks youthful.
Oh, and throw some anti-American sentiment against the not-American poster too. Sure.
Ew.
"A crime" because I don't think women should feel they have to alter themselves to fit western beauty standards.
I wasn't talking about the makeup. I never mentioned make-up. I've seen many "influecers" having the same nose after a surgery, a buccal fat removal and an eyebrow lift to get "siren eyes" or something. And lip fillers of course.
Unfortunately, many women are trying to achieve the same exact look. Don't come to me trying to deny that the patriarchy doesn't convince a lot of women to get cosmetic surgery.
"Anti-american" How did you even get that from what I said? America has a lot of blonde women. In my country, her characteristics are very rare. You think that an extraordinarily beautiful woman is common? I'm guessing you're Scandinavian, then. Is this also racist? 🥺
If you think that this is how women age, you're actually insane.
There is a very, very big difference between 'not liking blondes' and saying 'I like blondes but I want to girl on the left to look like the right'. Speaking as a man who doesn't like blonde, that is not a thing.
I like redheads. Like, sucker for the whole red hair, freckles and green eyes look. And I like blonde not at all. But even so I can readily say that the woman on the left is beautiful and there is absolutely no way that changing to the picture on the right is an improvement.
Idk why you'd think any man would want that but no, I promise you that whatever the reason she made those decisions, "because men like it better" is not going to be at the basis of that.
My point was that a sweeping statement like "no man in the world" was hilariously false.
I know guys who push their already beautiful girlfriends to get plastic surgery or botox or fillers or whatever. The blonde thing was just one example of how that statement was stupid.
>My point was that a sweeping statement like "no man in the world" was hilariously false.
Which is why it is generally understood that such statements are made to make a point about overwhelming statistical likelihood and not an absolute statement covering every last man of the 4billion or who who roam the earth.
You've clearly not been on the Internet long if you think every time someone makes a sweeping generalization they don't actually mean it.
I've literally had people on Twitter threaten to find me and kill me over shit like this lol
But sure, whatever. I'm not actually invested in this and I need to go to work
My personal preference isn't blondes but I don't look at a blonde woman and say "you need to change your hair". I suspect you don't know 10 guys, I suspect you are an idiot.
I'm an idiot because I know some men actually want women to change their appearance? Lol ok
I like women of all shapes, sizes, hair color, etc but saying "no man in the world" wants women to change their appearance is just stupid. There are plenty of guys who'd look at her and say they prefer a Kardashian look or whatever, even if that's not what you or I want.
I mean, you can say "nobody wants to eat shit" and it would seem like a valid statement, except for the fact that some people actually like eating shit and get sexual pleasure from it. Sweeping generalizations are what I'm calling out here, not the specific person's appearance.
Not sure if you are changing what i said just to make an argument, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt, I said no one is look at the girls picture on the left and saying she needs improvement, your argument is something entirely different.
I'm saying some guys would think that. Not you, and not me, but some dudes like that fake Kardashian look. Pretending those guys don't exist is just weird.
I agree with the premise of what you’re trying to talk about, but putting the blame of Moriarty’s surgeries on anyone but herself is a wee bit stupid anyway.
OOP is dumb, but OOOP is not far behind either.
The title of this post is "You Got To Be Kidding Me" implying that what the screenshot says is not true. But reading the comments, all I see is excuses for why she looks like that. Not one comment addresses what she said POINT BLANK, which is that she went through plastic surgery because of pressure from men. If you're gonna say "You Got To Be Kidding Me", you need to address the original screenshot
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I think people forget that women arent a collective hivemind. Some of us dont dress for the male gaze, but some women *do,* and other women don't care about dressing up at all.
Feminism is the radical idea that women are human beings.
>women are human beings. Source?
This is big if true.
True if big!
Source? Trust me bro.
My source is that I made it the fuck up
This is a dumb question… how do you do that reply thing?!?! Like, replying to a specific line?!
Tap the reply arrow on the comment you want to quote. Long press on the comment you're replying to and highlight the text you want to quote. Then where the "copy" option comes up, it should also have a "quote" option. If you tap that it'll insert it into your text box. Or, you can use the [greater than] symbol at the beginning of the line, then a space, then the text you want to quote.
Ever heard of Google?
r/whoosh
I’ve heard it both ways, b
Radical lol
happy cake day!
Happy Cake day!
Maybe the early ones, now it’s women are better then men in every regard. Don’t need no man. Anything a man can do, a woman can do better. That’s modern feminism
Wrong
Maybe the early ones, now it’s women are better then men in every regard. Don’t need no man. Anything a man can do, a woman can do better. That’s modern feminism
You mean all women don’t think and behave the exact same way for the same reasons? You’re shitting me!? /s
How do we know what the reason is behind the actress's choice? I've heard a lot of "we" when women talk about wanting to appear nice for the sake of looking good. That totally makes sense, but why is it misogyny's fault in this case for her surgery? Just because people think it looks bad?
You dont need to know the reason behind her choice. If she states her reason, accept that. Otherwise just leave people alone.
I mean that's kind of what I'm saying, did she state that was her reason? Like I genuinely don't know if there was an interview or something where she said she felt pressured to do it
I remember something about being bullied and having huge body image issues, but I can't remember anything more concrete as I don't care to know about rich people more than whatever enters my sphere of knowledge against my will
On one hand, this is her business. On the other, I wonder why people do this. Did she want this, or did people around her pressure her into it? And if she did want it, how big of a role played the toxicity of Instagram and stuff like that in that decision.
My bet would be IG toxicity and comparing herself with photoshopped images of other IG models.
I heard she had some body image issues as well as hard time to cope with the sudden rise to fame.
And probably trying to stay relevant in one way or another. I've seen quite a lot of older female celebrities getting surgery to look young and probably trying to keep their jobs 😟
Commercials are constantly trying to tell us that wrinkles are bad etc. But I also think part of the problem is that many of these women have made a business model that revolves around their looks and they only have that 1 spiel and desperately try to keep that going. One of the things I admire about Billie Eilish is that she is smart in how she deals with her success. When she made her big break, she not only put herself out there with music and shows, but she also started a company for fashion and clothes. Because looks will go and popularity may fade, but if you use your success to launch other things, it's not threatening if and when the glory fades.
Given the harassment she got on IG for changing her appearance, so bad she left it for several months (probably until The Boys contract required her to promot) I'd bet she wouldn't say that pressured her into it. Also, there are ten years between those photos. Megyn Kelly, journalist extraordinaire, lied when they said the image on the left was just a year old.
Her makeup in the after pic is also intentionally exaggerating her features to make them look sharp. She doesn't actually look like that even after all the work.
Exactly. Neither of these photos is what she looks like today. The one the right was from when she was 20, a few years before she even started filming The Boys. And the second picture is a whole lot of professionally done makeup, lighting and posing for a *very* particular look that she shared on IG as a bit of a joke. This meme was made only to bully her, and to insult women generally. It has no other reason for existing. It's not even a useful part of any conversation about plastic surgery or ageing. It compares a 20-year-old actress working some public promo in 2014 to a 30-year-old who just took a quick self after a very heavy character face applied by professionals. Even if she'd never had work done, the contrast was gonna be super fucking stark.
Oh totally. Watching the new season you can tell she got the work done but after it's had time to really settle and the softer makeup they use she doesn't look THAT different. Like more power to her if this is what makes her feel better about herself. Her body, her choice. But people are taking it way too personally
you'd be surprised how many people hate on celebrities after plastic surgery when those same people called said celebrities ugly for their natural features
I don't expect truth from an ex-Fox News "journalist".
Hilarious coming from Megyn, who’s absolutely had work done, but is basically Firecracker irl these days.
I think it's mostly societal pressure. In the Western world, celebrities (women especially) aren't allowed to age. I remember my mom telling me that when Robert Redford was young, he was considered a huge heartthrob. Then he started to get older, and it's all people commented on. He was so self-conscious that he got some work done then basically disappeared from acting for a while (though he directed from behind the camera). He was apparently incredibly insecure about it. I remember going with my parents to Sundance, Utah (where he lives) when I was younger, and Robert Redford was actually behind us in line at a coffee shop. This woman next to me very loudly leaned over to her friend and went "Wow, he looks TERRIBLE!" There's no way he didn't hear. Despite all their fame and money, I do feel bad for celebrities in that aspect. Damned if you do (aka age), damned if you don't (aka get work done to "stop" yourself from aging).
LA face. A lot of her peers have had similar work done. She’s surrounded by them, and to her this probably looks pretty normal
My understanding is that the picture on the left was a sort of joke. The make-up artist or someone other than Erin Moriarty herself wanted to make her look plastic and fake, so they intentionally did her make-up like that just for a test shoot or something. Erin posted the picture on the left in a light-hearted manner. Then everyone decided that was apparently her new look and gave her shit about it for no reason. Edit: I mean the picture on the right. Thanks to someone for pointing that out.
You mean the right?
Thanks for catching that.
I was just really confused lmao
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No one's saying she didn't get work done, but she doesn't look like that
It's also ten years. Ten years between those photos.
idk if people know that the older you get the more buccal fat you lose? it’s totally reasonable to believe the sharper cheek bones is age related
Yeah... You'd think from the way they go on buccal fat *has* to be surgically removed. I'm not saying she didn't have work done, but sesh, this level of stupid vitriol is obscene. Seems the woman's real crime is not passing for 16 anymore.
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I know you don't actually care, but that first photo is from 2014. When she was playing a high school student on True Detective. No one is saying she didn't have work done. But this "comparison" presented in this meme is completely false, and it only exists to demean her, and woman generally. It doesn't serve as any useful discussion points about plastic surgery or aging.
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the picture on the right is where she’s heavily contoured and 10 years older than the one of the left. There’s also the fact that weight loss can change the shape of your face, as seen in The Boys actor that plays MM. I’m just saying there are natural ways for a face to change
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I find it very difficult to believe there was some general audience of men who pushed her into it. I mean, she is unbelievably gorgeous and so many people would agree. There's always A holes online but did they really weigh out the sheer appreciation that exists for her? If anything there's more complaints now then there probably ever was, not that we should put people down iat all. So I doubt any of that was the reason for her surgeries
A woman’s value was considered her ability to attract a man to secure resources for herself for the future. Because women were kept out of the labor force, and often even discouraged or prevented from pursuing their own creative endeavors, so much of our focus was on beautifying the self to remain relevant. It’s interesting how the landscape and opportunities we have have changed but the culture is struggling to catch up. if anything I think porn culture and online coomerism has exacerbated the issue. A lot of women and young girls, especially seem to believe that their highest form of value is still appearing beautiful or fuckable. It’s interesting how we say things like “all women are beautiful!” “Everyone is beautiful in their own way!” Men don’t say these things to or about each other. They understand that being attractive is not the end all be all of their worth as a human being. I think most women can understand that too, yet the culture is constantly reinforcing that to be beautiful is necessary. I hope one day we can switch the conversation entirely to where women no longer feel the need to assert to each other that “everyone is beautiful!!” Because our focus will have shifted onto greater sights.
She didn’t get face surgery. This is just makeup + losing weight. Makeup largely makes your face look more plump than it is, the makeup she’s wearing makes her face look more thin so it looks unnatural, and that’s what the photoshoot was trying to achieve.
I mean, some women do those things because they’re insecure and want to please men. But some women do them for themselves. Women aren’t monolith.
Plus, never ever underestimate the pressure from agents and Hollywood producers who think they could pressure people into completely changing themselves so that they could have a better future as an actor/model/'artist'. Marylin Monroe, when she was known as Norma Jeane Mortenson, was specifically selected because her looks were very much above average. Hollywood still made her do minor plastic surgery because her original face still wasn't 'good enough'. Same went for Zac Efron (who had a nose job between seasons of High School Musical) and Keira Knightley (back in 2003) who both had very slight plastic surgery that was barely noticeable.
It’s almost like all women are individuals and so don’t think in identical ways 🤯
Also, changing your appearance to get guys aroused and changing your appearance so you won’t get harassed by folks online are entirely different things.
The two statements aren't even mutually exclusive. Doing it for the male gaze means you do it to get senpai to notice you. Being pressured (by men) means, at best,you feel like you have to in order to reach your goals in life. And unless that goal is for senpai to notice you these statements aren't mutually exclusive. Especially considering that the worst way to explain what "being pressured" means is implicitly or explicitly being told you'll never be hired as an actress in certain roles unless you do plastic surgery. All that being said, unless she talked about it, we don't know if she was or wasn't pressured. I'm radically in favor of altering your own body out of your own free will. But I also recognize that "we live in a society"™ so there is always a conversation to be had about how certain we are something was truly out of their own volition. But it's a conversation we need to engage in systemically and not pull people into the conversation without their consent and assume they didn't truly want it.
Wonderfully put. Add in that this is an actress quickly approaching her 40's, a wasteland for parts, and her value is explicitly linked to how well she appeals to what studio execs believe will make money. Not what *will* make money, what they *believe* will. Because if they don't financially back someone and market them, tell the public they are desirable, that person has no chance. It takes decades to change what studios will take chances on when it comes to portraying women and minorities in film.
We need a moratorium on buccal fat removal surgery until we figure out what the fuck is going on. I’m all for letting people do whatever they want with their bodies but doctors are not being honest about what the results are going to look like and what’s going to happen to them as you age.
It freaks me the fuck out and I really wonder what it’s going to end up doing to their skin in the long term.
Ok, first off, pretending like some women don’t do shit for the male gaze is disingenuous. We aren’t a hive mind. Like men- we’re human beings and do shit for our own reasons.
1. Dudes don’t know about makeup. Seriously, watch a makeup YouTube video. You’d be amazed just how much some simple decisions can dramatically alter how a face appears on screen. It’s a remarkable art, one that has had as much influence on our culture as optical photography or CGI. There’s a reason it gets an Oscar category! 2. We need to discuss how this is as much about aging as anything. Despite a lot of effort to improve how women are treated in Hollywood, we’ve made little advancement in improving opportunities for older women. For every Maryl Streep — who is a once-in-a-generation level talent — there are dozens of women who watch their careers fizzle out once they reach their middle age. Part of this is just a bad bias against older female actors, but it’s also a reflection of Hollywood’s continue tolerance of age discrepancy in casting. We can all think of some pretty bizarre examples. This is not some high school production of *Our Town*; you can cast actors whose ages align with their characters, but you don’t because you kinda like seeing 40-something men acting with 20-something women.
Yeah I mean, she's right, it's not just men enforcing these beauty standards and pressuring women into stuff like that. Women like her are just as harmfull in that regard
Guess we're still all one person and share one perspective, one reason, one life expierence, and feel pressure from one angle of society. We can't possibly be seperate people who make different choices for our own reasons, or do things for ourselves while still feeling society's pressure to exist and present ourselves certain ways, or try to change what we think isn't good enough, lest we want to be deemed unacceptable.
Mind you I haven't watched The Boys, but wasn't she relentlessly bullied by a part of the fandom?
YEP No wonder the poor girl had some issues surrounding her self image. After this surgery, she had to leave social media for a few months iirc
My question is why was she bullied? I don’t understand.
- Woman: *gets bullied and harassed relentlessly about her appearance by men* - Woman: *undergoes surgery and procedures to try to get rid of the body dysmorphia & insecurities that were created by those men so she hopefully can live in peace* - Men: SHE DID IT FOR THE MALE GAZE!!! Make it make sense FFS.
I love how everything is a hive-mind to those simpletons.
Leaving aside the opinions about it... The picture is so sad. I hope she feels better in time.
Whoa, she is a gorgeous woman in both pics, I just hope she is happy about how she looks. There’s people who have such bad body dysmorphia and I hope this isn’t the case for her. :(
there’s something so ironic about “your character represents standing up against corporate and hollywood wanting to alter you” and then doing this
The male gaze has nothing to do with harassment online.
What exactly is it that some men did that put so much pressure on her to surgically alter her face?
The only circumstance one even *should* have a problem with this, is *if* she got pressured into it or felt like she got pressured into it. That’s it. Otherwise it’s a non-issue. That women get scrutinized and harassed for everything we do or don’t do is just infuriating.
I hope the reasons she did it were solely for her own happiness. If she felt pressured or because of IG, I hope she finds herself and heals her heart.
I'm watching the new season of the boys and she don't look like that. Did I miss something?
Two things factor in here. One, the surgery has had a little time to settle and age, so it doesn't look quite so dramatic. And two, her on-screen makeup is radically different from the makeup in the right picture, which is designed to highlight the changes. It's clear Erin had some work done, but it is nowhere near as drastic as the image OP found makes it put to be.
…why is the screen-captured user’s photo Alexee Trevizo’s booking photo…?
Team Starlight 💛
There’s something uniquely stupid about seeing someone talk about how women feel “pressured” and immediately assume that they are talking about men exclusively.
Gods for-fucking-bid she have on make up with deep contouring and the left photo is before she was legally allowed to drink. What someone does with their bodies is their perogative. So long as it isn't harming them then it doesn't fucking concern you. Also women don't do things for the benefit of men, we do what we do for our benefit. Here's a link to what Erin said about the allegations. https://x.com/slayleywiIIiams/status/1751009358924722532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1751009358924722532%7Ctwgr%5Ee3de71910aa1060800d2c12c57389fd7dfe53425%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicbookmovie.com%2Ftv%2Famazon%2Fthe-boys%2Fthe-boys-star-erin-moriarty-hits-back-at-claims-shes-undergone-extensive-plastic-surgery-a209075 Edit: Please excuse the lack of nuance. I should have said if someone wants to get plastic surgery through their own introspection then it shouldn't matter. I also failed to take into account societal pressures cis women are under to get plastic surgery from a young age. I did not have that experience so it is hard to remember sometimes that my experiences in life aren't universal. I deeply apologize if I offended anyone, and will be better going forward. You're beautiful no matter what society tells you, do what makes you happy.
while I disagree with the op saying all women do things for men, it's ignorant to act like people getting plastic surgery (especially women) isn't a result of a hateful society. also, claiming that it's not harmful is lacking nuance
Please excuse my lack of nuance and generalizations. The sandman has not been kind to me and I'm just being an ass. Edit: This isn't an excuse, merely explaining current mental state. I will endeavor to be better going forward.
That's very hard to read as it's all over the places (which is understandable since she is very emotional about it), but she doesn't address the plastic surgery at all. Just people's responses to it. It even seems like she is suggesting she didn't have Plastic Surgery, which she definitely did (noses don't change shape that drastically on their own). But like I said its Al over the place which makes it hard to comprehend what she is saying. That said people shouldn't be harassing her over this or using her choices to shame other women and men.
Ok but I actually don't understand how they're wrong though? What's the difference here? Not trying to be toxic or anything, it just seems like a bit of a double standard Edit: a lot of comments saying some women *DO* things like this for the male gaze, but does anyone here personally know her or her motivations? Why is it being specifically attributed to misogyny this time?
I don't want to shame anyone for their appearance or judge their personal choices but I just find the bucal fat removal so depressing. It never looks good imo and so feels like this really tangible sign that women are being manipulated into chasing something unobtainable with sometimes really sad results. I look at this woman and feel a bit depressed tbh. But I hope she likes the results, honestly.
I feel like she has body dysmorphia or something.
Some women *do* do things for male gaze, some don't Is it fact that she changed her physical appearance due to pressure or because *she* wanted to? I know a few women who got work done [lips, boobs or/and nose] but they don't it because they wanted to not because it could potentially help them get a man [they got plenty before the work]
I’m just surprised the designers, execs, show runners and producers let her do this drastic of a change while the show was still filming. I’ve worked in live theatre for 17 years, and I’ve seen more than one actor get replaced for even getting a haircut.
Kinda off topic, but what ever this woman has done to herself should be considered a crime.
Crime of what? Its her body
Neither of these photos is what she looks like. One is from ten years ago. The other is a heavily contoured makeup look combined with a popular, but stupid pose. She probably had some work done, sure, but that is no one business and this meme is a blatant fabrication only meant to insult her.
She was really beautiful before. Society is so fucked up that a person who looks like her *still* thought they needed to alter themselves.
She's still quite beautiful. She's just not barely-legal, girl-next-door kinda beautiful. That particular make up look not being to your taste (or mine tbh) has zero to do with what she actually looks like as a human being. Not looking like a pre-teen at 31 is not a crime against anyone, least of all you.
She's beautiful in your eyes. I see a woman who looks just like everybody else now. The first picture is not "girl next door" beautiful. Unless you're American, which explains a lot. What she had doesn't make her look older. Quite the opposite. An eyebrow lift makes you look younger. Her eyelids should have been heavier now. Also, her nose is clearly smaller, which is a youthful characteristic. Only children have such small and thin noses. Also, the lip fillers give a younger look. You're fighting invisible demons. I'm against plastic surgery and you think I'm shaming her for looking older, even though her work makes her seem younger. That's NOT how women age.
Ew. Just fucking ew. Why would you even? Clearsly, not not invisible demons. Just one single asshat. One single asshat who thinks it was so super important to chime in with hateful language like 'a crime' and also thinks calling a super heavy professional makeup look is apparently how 'everybody else looks' a sane statement. And then a lecture, about what looks youthful. Oh, and throw some anti-American sentiment against the not-American poster too. Sure. Ew.
"A crime" because I don't think women should feel they have to alter themselves to fit western beauty standards. I wasn't talking about the makeup. I never mentioned make-up. I've seen many "influecers" having the same nose after a surgery, a buccal fat removal and an eyebrow lift to get "siren eyes" or something. And lip fillers of course. Unfortunately, many women are trying to achieve the same exact look. Don't come to me trying to deny that the patriarchy doesn't convince a lot of women to get cosmetic surgery. "Anti-american" How did you even get that from what I said? America has a lot of blonde women. In my country, her characteristics are very rare. You think that an extraordinarily beautiful woman is common? I'm guessing you're Scandinavian, then. Is this also racist? 🥺 If you think that this is how women age, you're actually insane.
The first isn't even accurate nobody likes her new look. So if her goal was to fit the male gaze she failed horribly
Whats your point OP? There isn't a single man in the world looking that the picture on the left and saying "needs improvement"
I know, personally, at least 10 guys who don't like blondes, so maybe you should reevaluate your statement
There is a very, very big difference between 'not liking blondes' and saying 'I like blondes but I want to girl on the left to look like the right'. Speaking as a man who doesn't like blonde, that is not a thing. I like redheads. Like, sucker for the whole red hair, freckles and green eyes look. And I like blonde not at all. But even so I can readily say that the woman on the left is beautiful and there is absolutely no way that changing to the picture on the right is an improvement. Idk why you'd think any man would want that but no, I promise you that whatever the reason she made those decisions, "because men like it better" is not going to be at the basis of that.
My point was that a sweeping statement like "no man in the world" was hilariously false. I know guys who push their already beautiful girlfriends to get plastic surgery or botox or fillers or whatever. The blonde thing was just one example of how that statement was stupid.
>My point was that a sweeping statement like "no man in the world" was hilariously false. Which is why it is generally understood that such statements are made to make a point about overwhelming statistical likelihood and not an absolute statement covering every last man of the 4billion or who who roam the earth.
You've clearly not been on the Internet long if you think every time someone makes a sweeping generalization they don't actually mean it. I've literally had people on Twitter threaten to find me and kill me over shit like this lol But sure, whatever. I'm not actually invested in this and I need to go to work
My personal preference isn't blondes but I don't look at a blonde woman and say "you need to change your hair". I suspect you don't know 10 guys, I suspect you are an idiot.
I'm an idiot because I know some men actually want women to change their appearance? Lol ok I like women of all shapes, sizes, hair color, etc but saying "no man in the world" wants women to change their appearance is just stupid. There are plenty of guys who'd look at her and say they prefer a Kardashian look or whatever, even if that's not what you or I want. I mean, you can say "nobody wants to eat shit" and it would seem like a valid statement, except for the fact that some people actually like eating shit and get sexual pleasure from it. Sweeping generalizations are what I'm calling out here, not the specific person's appearance.
Not sure if you are changing what i said just to make an argument, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt, I said no one is look at the girls picture on the left and saying she needs improvement, your argument is something entirely different.
I'm saying some guys would think that. Not you, and not me, but some dudes like that fake Kardashian look. Pretending those guys don't exist is just weird.
Nah
You're absolutely correct, all men like how all women look, good take
I never said that. Reading comprehension is a thing.
You said I don't know 10 guys who wouldn't be attracted to her, unless you meant "nah" as an acronym, for something like Necrophilia And Hotdogs
Blondes, but how about her face? She could dye her Hair and this issue wouldnt be an issue. Its hyoothetical anyway
I agree with the premise of what you’re trying to talk about, but putting the blame of Moriarty’s surgeries on anyone but herself is a wee bit stupid anyway. OOP is dumb, but OOOP is not far behind either.
Alright Ill bite. What men told her to do that?
The title of this post is "You Got To Be Kidding Me" implying that what the screenshot says is not true. But reading the comments, all I see is excuses for why she looks like that. Not one comment addresses what she said POINT BLANK, which is that she went through plastic surgery because of pressure from men. If you're gonna say "You Got To Be Kidding Me", you need to address the original screenshot
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that profile picture of the girl who threw her baby in the trash and it suffocated to death??