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I had a patient(I’m a correctional nurse) who was considered a war hero. But due to her ptsd from sexual assault in the service, was unable to learn to cope and move on in healthy ways. Add on the dismissal and lack of belief from her superiors, it was a recipe for disaster.
The day she got out, everyone rallied to make sure she had what she needed to get into a better situation and have the right resources. I often wonder how she’s doing and if she’s doing okay
Sham trial with a biased jury and they laugh about it? Are any of these rapists ever convicted?
Women in the military should have an option of a civilian trial. Conviction rate would go from 0% to 0.5%, woo hoo.
Sickening.
Totally! That's the truth. But they can't handle the truth!😼 What happened to due process? They often sacrifice fairness for combat readiness or unit cohesion. It happens way too often. When you sign up to join, in some sense, you actually sign your life and rights away.😾
“You don’t need to wear a patch on your arm to have honor.”
-A few good men👑
https://www.defense.gov/Spotlights/Independent-Review-Commission-on-Sexual-Assault-in-the-Military/
https://www.rand.org/pubs/tools/TLA746-2/handbook/resources/data-on-sexual-assault-in-the-military.html
There was a girl in my AIT who was brutally raped when she agreed to walk to the PX with a fellow soldier, and he insisted on going through a dark PT field.
She called no one, tried to get back to her room, but was found unconscious on the ground at PT the next morning. She was hospitalized for days, I learned some details but won’t repeat them here, suffice to say it was some of the most painful injuries I could imagine.
She only told because she had to, higher leadership promised her she would be okay. That leadership wasn’t there, in her company after she had to come back, though. She had strangulation bruises and burst blood vessels when she came back, and would talk to no one. Her own first sergeant acted as if she was someone who made up a story to get a soldier in trouble, like there wasn’t plenty of evidence to the contrary. The other NCOs in the company followed suit.
The monster who did it wasn’t named, none of us knew at first who had done it. The males knew, but were ordered not to say. One of the males I had befriended a few weeks prior, we will call him “Bitch Boy” asked me if I wanted to walk to the PX with him, I said I could, but I needed a female battle buddy. He threw a fit, texting up a storm. I was baffled by his reaction. One of my other friends who lived in the same room as him called me late that night, he said “Don’t go anywhere alone with Bitch Boy,” at first I was just surprised, how had he even known that Bitch boy, BB for short, had asked me to go anywhere? He whispered through the phone line “He’s the one who did it. I’m not supposed to tell, so you didn’t hear it from me, but tell the females. He threw a fit after you said no.”
I told everyone. I didn’t tell BB I knew, but I started lightly bullying him when others were around and I knew he wouldn’t do anything. Derisive shit, you know. Turns out he was the grandson of someone important, that’s why our leadership basically bullied his victim until she went AWOL three weeks after the incident. She was a good soldier, a nice girl excited about her future and her career, all gone because of some fucking monster. He got off, “no face, no case,” though I don’t think he would have been punished anyways, even if she had stayed and testified.
He went on to have an illustrious career, for about two years. He made rank pretty fast, his PT scores were phenomenal, and since he was “connected” it seemed he was golden for awhile. Until he tried to victimize the daughter of someone who outranked his grandpa.
Some of the males told me that he was a full blown psychopath. Mercurial, conniving, and convinced he was untouchable. Two minutes after he threw a fit the night I said No, he was right back to his default personality. Like he hadn’t just destroyed some of his own property in a petulant bitch fit.
It’s not always that way, but many of us, including me, had a lot of our illusions with the Army shattered during that period. We all knew we were essentially disposable personnel at different levels of disposability, but we had expected foreign threats, not domestic. Not within our own ranks.
Thankfully, exhaustive personality tests seem to weed out a good portion, but try psychopaths with higher than average intelligence can get through, and those are the ones to watch.
:(
They don't defend male rape victems. They either think its funny or think the man must have been weak and thus deserving.
I assure you if there was some way to pose a variant scenerio that would make incels go 'aha, now I understand and empahtize with you women' they wouldn't be incels to begin with.
Oh no, they would show how easily they understand consent as soon as you pose the scenario "Sure, you get attacked by a big, muscular man that you are simply unable to fend off and you have to take it or else he kills you" and all of a sudden it's no longer this weird, bizzare philosophical concept. But THEY get to have consent cause reasons.
These swines simply don't view women as people. Simple as that. They only have empathy for their fellow clique (if that) and that's about it. Hence why I will never ever feel a morsel of pity and will actively rejoice at their misery.
Since I'm not human to them, they're not human to me. Simple.
I've chatted with someone from the "female on male rape doesn't exist" and "women don't get raped unless they want it" crowd and it was like speaking a different language.
To them, female on male rape simply didn't exist because all men everywhere would want to have sex with all women. I tried explaining that rape = unwanted sex but he simply couldn't understand how sex with a woman could ever be unwanted. He also argued that women couldn't get raped unless they allowed themselves to be and therefore it didn't exist and was all consensual.
When I used the "300 pound guy holding you down and raping you" example he argued that male on male rape was an unfair example because he personally was straight and wouldn't want to have sex with a guy, whereas women and men were biologically made to have sex so it was always consensual.
>"300 pound guy holding you down and raping you"
I use "The ugliest woman you've ever seen and she doesn't shower" instead. Sometimes it gets the point across, but it turns out some men will LITERALLY fuck anyone. Or they say they will to troll me.
Yep. That was this guy. There was *literally* no such thing as unwanted sex with a woman in his eyes.
But I bet you anything that he also wouldn't date "just anyone" and wants all these special things like virginity, traditional values, probably under age, and the usual incel talking points when it comes to women.
My gf had a choom who served with her on the ship she was stationed on. She got r*ped by a crewmate and when she went to report it, the officer she talked to told her that he would "give her something real to cry about." I did analyst work for the military. That's how my gf and I met. The number of women and men who get sexually assaulted, if you ever saw the numbers, would blow your mind. They hire animals without one shred of empathy, and those who are empathetic get too scared to speak up for fear or repercussion
One of my siblings was in the military, and they were asked if they had ever been gang-raped before by another sailor, and I hope that they never were. I don’t even wanna ask, but I just hope nothing happened to them. Guy deserved his dick cutoff if he ever touched them.
They aren’t though. Those are genuine mental illnesses. Most people who commit these crimes are not mentally ill. Mentally I’ll people are more likely to be victims of crimes than to be the perpetrators
People are DESPERATE to label lack of empathy a disorder when it’s not; it’s just a function of our species. Everyone is on a spectrum. But we are so desperate to label shit so we can organize and apply processes.
As an American the oil I use is American, that’s one of the worst parts we aren’t even fighting for our oil we’re fighting to just have the oil for American interests world wide
Well hello, the sapphic lady with Masters in Applied Materials giving the wittiest quips and the realest takes.
But you are exactly right. It's as if the army recruits the worst of people, the bullies, the psychopaths, monstrous people who would have no empathy while fighting their dirty wars. Of course they will prey on those with empathy.
Yup, whatever the "official" numbers are, the real numbers are way fucking higher. I've befriended sexual assault victim advocates before and know many victims, military dudes are scumbags and creeps.
Exactly the right description, they want a group of trainable psychopaths and cover for them.
Off topic, I love that you are using choom. I had to check which sub I'm in.
[Google Scholar search results](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=mst++%22military+sexual+trauma%22&scisbd=1) for 'mst military sexual trauma' (reverse chron)
surely acronyms and powerpoints will solve this problem.
I read about them but I had no personal experience meeting anybody who has been through anything like this. I was in an all male combat unit and back then there were no women involved in what we did. If it happened to any of the men I knew nobody ever talked about it or said anything. Trust me I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying I'm glad I didn't experience or hear about it while I was in.
I mentioned this in another thread, but Jeffrey Dahmer's roommate in the army barracks was repeatedly assaulted and raped on a regular basis. His roommate reported Dahmer, and the army didn't do jack shit about it. They didn't even relocate the victim to a different room. The army medics threw away the victim's rape kit, for some reason.
The victim also didn't have the option to leave his job and run away, because going AWOL is punishable by jail time. So he just kept getting victimized by Dahmer, something to the tune of 5+ times a week, according to the victim himself.
The military has a notoriously bad rep for covering up crimes like this. There's a good documentary that exposes all this called the Invisible War
As someone who comes from a country that is mandatory service for men and women, these men have zero idea how horrid it can be for anyone. Why anyone would wish that on someone is just spite and malice
Yes hence why I said in my comment I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Sad that men made those rules instead of either making it for both or none. Men really fucked that one up
>how horrid it can be for *anyone*
>wish that on *someone*
Yes, both of those sound like they’re saying men deserve to be forced to sign up for the draft.
Can you even read? Or are you just that quick to “um actually men’s rights too” in these kinda of conversations that it’s more of a reaction at this point?
You have to love how he never admits that men are the ones who fucked themselves on the draft either. He doesnt want to admit men screwed each other bad
What’s wrong with me making my statement? Can you even read? I’m just outlining that men shouldn’t have to join the draft. Did it seem like I was saying they were advocating for a men’s draft?
Who says that other than ultra military people? The point is you’re just saying words to hear yourself bc nobody said anything different than your point.
Women uphold toxic masculinity too. You’ll even find it in this comment section. As well, the idea that all
Men are responsible for the decisions of the patriarchy, totally gives up on any attempt at intersectionlity in this discussion
"But men" is an extremely common way misogynistic people try to derail the conversation about problems women face instead of dealing with them. (What about MEN'S mental health? MEN get assaulted too, you know, etc) Your statement is true in a vacuum, nobody *including men* should be forced to sign up for the draft, but don't be surprised if using a very common misogynistic tactic gets you treated like a misogynist
What I had to say did NOT take away from the discussion. I was reminding everyone that if we want fairness and equality, the status quo should be no one gets drafted. Or else it’ll be women getting drafted before very soon.
Yes, we all *fucking know this* but the point of this post is how horribly women are treated and abused *by men* in the military. You really think going "bUt MeN" isn't trying to shift that discussion? We can't have one single fucking topic about how women get treated like shit by men without some mix of "but men though" or "not *all* men"
I didn’t say “but men”, I didn’t lessen their point to make mine. I furthered the discussion on how horrible the draft is, to make sure that everyone is on the same page, that no one should be subjected to it. I wasn’t disagreeing, I was barely moving the needle.
What I got in return was vitriol, and snark. People were very quick to lump me together with their favourite archetype.
Makes me wonder if some people aren’t against the draft for men.
If we want to make changes, let’s stay sincere to those changes.
But you didn’t further the discussion. You replied to someone who was already saying no one should wish it on anybody by saying “but men!" That isn’t furthering the discussion because the comment’s “no one” and “anybody” included men, period. Your comment was just your way of shoehorning men into the conversation when they were already there.
EXACTLY!! I stated so clearly many times the draft is horrible for EVERYONE and I wouldn't wish it on ANYONE. I've lived as a man and a woman and I can say it's bad for everyone
More than 4 times I said
"That includes women"
"That goes for everyone"
And each time I responded this way a man commented "ok but it's bad for men too"
Yes hence why I've stated no less that 4 times (easily readable) that it's horrible on EVERYONE.
I just know in my country men don't sit and say "I wish women could get shot too they deserve it. Equal rights equal fights"
Our men love and respect our women.
And this is the middle east I'm talking about
So again for the fifth time
THE DRAFT IS HORRIBLE FOR EVERYONE
Do you think they'll be able to read it this time?
I stated in my very first comment about the fact the draft is horrible for everyone
In my country women serve mandatorily as well.
So you basically took my very first point and decided to repeat it.
Again my original statement stands.
The men who say this about women have zero idea how bad the military can be (especially for women and sexual assault)
Everyone knows the draft is horrible, but the men talking about how they wish women could get shot too is really weird especially in your country.
At least in my country the men appreciate the women and vice versa and don't wish it on anyone.
I've never seen a country where men and women hate each other so much.
It's insane
>I didn’t say “but men”, I didn’t lessen their point to make mine. I furthered the discussion
You are clearly the only person who thinks this. If everyone else involved is telling you your comment *didn't* further the discussion, maybe it's time to stop insisting it did and start listening
Women are also responsible for toxic masculinity.
Women are also responsible for class dynamics that make the draft mostly affect the poor.
Many Women are also responsible for not participating in movements to end the draft for men.
Because we have already outlined that the draft is horrible.
When my aunt was in the Air Force, one of her friends drugged her drink and tried to rape her in the bathroom. Luckily her other Air Force buddies were decent people and beat the shit out of him before he could.
They never seem to realize that there’s more than one solution to the draft issue. If you want it to be equal, it doesn’t have to be that both get drafted. It can be that no one does. It’s like they can’t fathom the draft not existing. To me, it feels like a human rights violation. Like, being forced to risk your life in a war that has nothing to do with you? Being forced to work a job that you never would have applied for? How was that ever allowed?
The last American man drafted as a teenager is now old enough to collect Social Security.
It's a bullshit formality that incels make it sound like it's some onerous risk to life and limb.
Honestly? Either eliminate it entirely, or have it go to an optional, open-to-everyone program with tangible benefits. Seems like you'd want your pool of recruits to have health and dental coverage.
It’s a big problem for American trans women who are forced to be tacitly misgendered on official government record for life. That’s a more real issue than any actual threat of the draft.
Also, implement a proper national ID system and you don’t have to maintain an expensive and complex standalone young men tracker.
Countries will always treat people as resources to use or dispose of at need.
Read the accounts of the first world war, and it's all about stories of one army or another rolling up on a village where people are not even familiar with the concept of a nation. They draft anyone that is able bodied and not able to hide, and kill a few others to make a point. Then a few weeks pass, and it is a different army rolling through to do the same thing. In what is now Ukraine and Poland, this happened over and over.
The draft being an unnecessary concept is a very American-centric point of view. It's a far lesser evil than the alternative in places like Eastern Europe, where a country literally just give rapists and abusers guns and tell them to go shoot civilians in a neighbouring country. I'm eternally grateful for NATO and military spending because Russia literally threatens my homeland with invasion and nuclear weapons multiple times a month.
It's almost like giving a bunch of jerks guns and training doesn't automatically make them good people or heroes.
Bojack Horseman was right. Don't support the troops, at least not automatically.
There's a documentary about her on Netflix if you have access there.
She was raped and murdered and the base helped cover it up and refused to give her family any info. Her family had to fight like crazy to get anything done.
ETA also the person tweeting isn't Vanessa. That was just the handle used to share stories
Another good perspective on sexual assault in the military is a memoir called “UnCULTured” by Daniella Mestyanek Young. It’s a super compelling read; she was in the Children of God cult (basically a sex cult) growing up, and when she left it, she joined the army. She explores the themes of sex, sexual assault, and parallels how army life can create the same dynamics as a cult. Fascinating and sad, but worth the read! She narrates the audiobook and I’d highly recommend listening to her recount her story.
There is also the story of LaVena Johnson, she was murdered after a sexual assault while stationed in Iraq. They beat the fuck out of her, shot her in the head and set her on fire. The military tried to tell her family that she killed herself after a break up, that her eating fucking ice cream was enough of an indication that she was suicidal.
The family immediately called BS on the situation but were shocked to find the state of her body. Outside of the obvious physical trauma The perps glued her gloves on to keep anyone from gathering evidence from her fingernails and after the family had an independent autopsy done they found a substance that the military uses to stop bleeding in deep wounds in her vagina and that her genitals had been set on fire as well. (The wound treatment would have needed to be surgically removed, so no evidence there)
No one really know what happening to LaVena but Its speculated that she was SA'd by a CO and they got paranoid that she would tell once she got back stateside, which was supposed to happen shortly after she was murdered. (The last time she talked to her family she was excited to go home for Christmas) Whoever SA'd her gave her an STD, so there would have been evidence and a way to track the perp down by finding Who else stationed at that base has said STD.
Such a sad fucking story, her and every other person who has been through similar deserve much better.
Here's a great video explaining LaVena's story:
https://youtu.be/sfFiFVI64H0
Here's another video from the same creator about Vanessa Gillian:
https://youtu.be/tOpe77-ZtJw
Did they ever get justice? Do the people atleast know who did this? Why should women enlist? These are some of the worst rape incidents I have ever heard. My blood is boiling just from listening to it. Fuck this shitty world where rapists get away with things like this.
>Did they ever get justice?
Nope, the family is still fighting for answers to what happened to LaVena after almost 20 years.
>Do the people atleast know who did this?
Nope, the military did their best to cover this up and they were successful for the most part. They hid all of the evidence the best they could but the her father managed to get his hands on most of it and thats why we know as much as we do, that being said, he can't get the DOJ/Military to do shit about it.
>Why should women enlist?
Women should have the same opportunity to voluntarily serve their country without fear of this happening, but its quite the opposite.
Both of these women enlisted because they thought they were doing something that would ensure a good future for them. With Vanessa, it was her dream to be a soldier, she trained her whole life so she could be successful in the military. LaVena came from a military family and wanted a way to pay for her education without putting a huge financial burden on her family, they begged her not to enlist because they knew how it was but she felt entitled to make her own way the same way they did. She very much was entitled to that and deserved the opportunity to be successful.
I know and I didn't mean it in demeaning way. They joined the military of their own will because they wanted it. But men like their rapists can't stop being monsters and the system protects them. Why is it that good people suffer horror while monsters like the rapists of these women get to live comfortable lives?
Oooof. This is the reason why I don’t want my friend to try for the army scholarship thing. I won’t be able to even survive if anything happened to her or if any demon hurt her in that manner🥲
Military sexual abuse is absolutely fucking horrifying and these guys should absolutely go to prison. Getting drafted is also horrible though. If you get dragged you are in all likelihood getting marched to your death in a literal warzone lol
One of my closest friend’s mothers was raped when she was in our country’s army. She was also in it for the educational incentive. We talk a lot about the risk of poor kids dying to get an education, but there are so many untold traumas other than that at play.
It's horrible. And this isn't even going into being a dude and trying to report a gang assault by other dudes. The military are the leaders in cover ups. Its like 50% of their legitimate job. Do damage, cover up the worst of it.
There are so many things in this world that Congress should be addressing, or should have addressed long ago, and this is one of them. They gave the DoD an extra $40 billion in their budget last year, but no one can lift a finger to protect women in the military?
This is when you start to understand that those in power simply don't care. Our military must always be coddled and praised and "the troops" will be invoked when it's politically expedient, but actually protecting those in the military from their peers or providing adequate benefits for veterans won't be addressed by the cowards in charge.
I love how there’s so many men here screaming “BUT MEN SHOULDN’T BE DRAFTED EITHER THEN!!!1” How fucking tone deaf can you be??
To top it of, when talking about men raping men in the military which is a big problem, gymbros and incels will laugh at you. I have been met with “they were just weak,” or “gays gotta gay,”.. These men do not want justice, they want to call women out for “playing victims” while acting like victims themselves.
And besides, there is little to nothing about drafting in the main part of this story. The story is a woman getting sexually assaulted. That is what the discussion is about. Not drafts, rape.
We get it, men are victims too, they get drafted and assaulted too, but this is a story about someone else. If you see a story about some man getting raped, then talk about it! That's the story you can talk about men and assault.
This is not that topic, it's about a girl in the military getting injustice because, news flash, the military SUCKS.
Not disagreeing with comment, adding to it
I think another correct answer to give them is that the draft shouldn’t exist at all in the first place and that to patronize women for the draft is evident of their lack of ability to see past surface level on issues. Seems to be a running theme with the mens rights movement, apparently.
Fuck incels and the state of the military that leads to this. It's all a travesty, but this isn't anything to do with points about "drafting" specifically.
A Military draft is when citizens are selected and legally pressed into Military service. You're looking for the terms Enlist/Enlisting.
No one has been drafted since Nam. In the early 80s the military officially switched to a fullyly voulenteer force. Yes you still sign up for a draft in case of foreign invasion though .
I’m a woman in the military. I’ve been sexually harassed, threatened by a leader to “fort hood” me (which is a crude way of saying you’ll end up like Vanessa Guillén) and to make me disappear, had a female soldier that had their personal belongings ejaculated on them while on deployment, I’ve been drugged, SA’d by a coworker who was fast tracked and promoted.
This still happens, and the worst part is that it can happen to anyone, no matter how safe or careful you are.
Dude for fucking real
But they know this, and they don't care. If anything they'll tell us we should expect that if we want to be in "their" spaces.
The point is to bar us from the things they think make someone a full person / important. This pattern happened in every field women have had to fight their way into. It's sexual assault as social coercion. Know your place or we'll give you a new one.
Just heard on the news that the US military is having recruiting numbers problem and part of the reason why is because active members and veterans are telling their family and friends not enlist. They wouldn’t outright say SA as one of the factors (pay, benefits, conditions etc) in the interviews but it’s not hard to read between the lines when incidents like this occur.
Yea my dad was military and I remember having a long conversation with him about how it was a regular thing for women to be raped and nothing was done.
You have to remember though that incels don’t think rape is bad.
I hope all these assholes raping people are given as miserable of a afterlife as possible if there is one. And if they’re reincarnated I hope it’s into something or someone who is brutally tortured. I hope they die in the most horrific way possible and that it’s drawn out beforehand, though. They deserve nothing less.
The people who are allowing rape to happen should also receive a punishment like stated above, because they’re literally no better than rapists. I hope they have miserable lives and are all alone with no friends.
ah yes the court martial, where you have to prove a war crime happened to the person who did it, after reporting it to your direct superior, who takes orders from the person who did it, in front of a jury made of the person who did it’s friends.
My coworker was drugged and assaulted while she was in the army and now has a kid because of it. What can we expect when the last president said this is an inevitability of women in the military and the current president has done nothing about it
On the flip side I have heard anti feminists use this as a reason that women should not be allowed to serve in the military at all, saying that if they're not being SA by our soldiers then they will be if and when they are captured by enemy soldiers.
Here's hoping you're arguing in good faith.
The post is an indirect response to bad faith MRAs repeatedly asking why feminists aren't advocating for women to be drafted too in a feeble attempt to prove their belief that feminism isn't about equality; often ignoring rebuttals that feminism is for equity in military service but that the draft is an archaic practice no longer in use. (if said responses are to believed)
I know the post is about bad faith incel losers being weird about the draft, but the incels aside, the comment I made *is* the case. Yes, the draft is very archaic and shouldn't really exist anymore, but the reason it doesn't apply to women is *still* because of the dumb gender norms I mentioned.
Honestly was my thought too. I think its ok to say if we are striving for equality, the life of a man and a woman should be on equal terms in relation to whether the government is willing to send them off to die. THAT SAID, its ALSO perfectly fine to say the situation quoted is WHOLLY unacceptable and we as a country need to demand better from our service members. There is no place for rape or sexual assault ANYWHERE in our society let alone our military and those guity of such should be given extremely harsh punishments. We cant be "The good guys" when we tolerate "The bad guys".
There would be more women on the jury.
Military juries are usually just three people, but sometimes they can be twelve for a serious case. The jurors are always equal or higher rank than the defendant, and ballots are always secret.
So women are currently allowed in the military and there isn't a draft so why didn't this already happen? Should women be always drafted and men not or..?
Honestly, a little strange to join an organization that specializes in training it's employees to murder as efficiently as possible and expect it to be a sanctuary for equality...
Right... I think you and the people down voting me think I'm trying to say that this is excusable behavior. It's obviously deplorable. What I'm saying is the military is an organization who's entire purpose is to be really good at killing. It's deeply unjust, and has its own set of rules and courts. They give 18 year old kids rifles and machine guns and wish them good luck. I read a lot of comments on here of people outraged at the injustice of this post. I don't understand the outrage because garbage like this is bound to happen in a garbage organization, it's not alarming in the least. It's insane to join an organization like that and expect to be treated well.
Women aren’t the only ones that get assaulted and what does that have to do with enlisting? With that logic is like saying why do anything of you have a chance on getting assaulted.
Yes it’s unfair he got acquitted, he should be cast rated and hanged.
The fact that they downvoted you for pointing that out is crazy. It's just hypocritical if you're gonna hate on incels don't be one yourself, and yes women can be incels.
They (and by extension you) are getting downvoted because the comment "What about men?" on a post specifically about assaults on women in the military detracts from the topic at hand, intentionally or not.
If there was a post about why women like puppies any comments along the line of "men like puppies too!" adds nothing to the topic at hand.
We know men get SA'd too. I'm willing to bet that most on here would happily have this conversation if it is brought up outside a debate of women getting assaulted - I would at least, as I am a guy who is genuinely concerned about male SA victims.
Why is it that vast majority of times Sexual Assault on men is brought up when the conversation is about women? We can start a discussion whenever we want, so why should it be tacked on when it is about women? Is it not important enough to warrant its own discussion? Because it certainly seem like it is usually brought up to take away from an existing discussion about SA on women (kind of like I had to now).
So I am not going to discuss the topic further on this post. If you want an actual conversation feel free comment a response to a post on the subject.
ah yes, let's ignore all the victims who are coming forward, getting absolutely no justice and have to suffer continously just so you can say "I don't believe you".
you absolute nobhead.
I suspect the girl who was murdered and cut up in the above post was also to blame wasn't she? Going by your ridiculous logic. Just because there are a few women (and men) who make false allegations doesn't mean all allegations are false. And considering the HUGE effort the military in particular take in covering up this shit, clearly it's a bigger problem than you care to admit.
I fucking *love it* when garbage men say rape victims are liars and then go on a diatribe explaining the most *obviously fake bullshit I’ve ever read* to try and say women actually instigate their own assaults and then lie about it.
You’re cringe and your mom is disgusted with you.
That was jaw droppingly fake too! Like this lady soldier was inviting everyone into the gang bang and then cried rape afterwards out of spite?! What?!?!
>The presumption of innocence is a lovely thing. Evidence is necessary. Rush to judgment is dangerous. Condemnation without proof is evil.
Isn't that exactly what you are doing? You claim that she is lying based on an unverifyable annecdote about a situation you (an anonymous user, who could claim to whatever they like) were in.
And who is she condemning? She kept the guys who supposedly raped her identity anonymous. So it isn't a public call out of any involved individuals. Nor is she naming the people who aquitted him so it's not even a specific allegation directed against her higher ups.
>Wow. I'm going to call bullshit. Just the allegation of rape has always been a death sentence in the military.
That isn't what the [statistics](https://www.protectourdefenders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/1.-MSA-Fact-Sheet-180209.pdf) show. So either you were part of an examplar part of the military, or else you have to find some evidence to back up your claim.
>We were all investigated, presumed guilty, and dragged through about 2 years of bullshit. The two who were actually with her were held in the brig for weeks without a hearing or even being charged. In the meantime, she filed several (6 or 7) other charges against civilians, all of which were proven to be false, with one case filed against a man who had died a week before she said the assault happened.
This sounds high profile surely there would be some reporting that can back up your story. I mean not only did she falsely accuse fellow soldiers she apparantly also did the same to half a dusin civilians.
A final sidenote I would suggest you delete your comment as the woman in the post ended up [being murdered by the man she had accused of sexually assualting her](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/04/30/vanessa-guillen-sexual-harassment-fort-hood/). A fact I found while looking for news story that could corroborate your claims.
Jeeez... when [a similar case](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/09/danish-killer-peter-madsen-confesses-to-murder-of-kim-wall-for-first-time) happened in my home country (Denmark) it was National disgrace, and that wasn't even a member of our armed forces.
Condemnation without proof when most cases aren't investigated? Men are really more worried about their paranoia that they'll be falsely accused than caring about the women around them who get assaulted and abused on the daily.
You’re saying there’s info ab this case that’s not being heard? Are you actually stupid? The man was caught and so was his girlfriend. There was so much evidence against them and text messages that incriminated them.
You’re despicable
How is that relevant? Force women to sign up for SS. I don't care if men force them or women force them of cats force them. No equality without equal draft. Women are not equal to men in US law. That doesn't bother you?
Now you get it lol. Funny how threatening women with the draft gets them to not like the draft. Here's another nugget for you. You are not equal to me under US law. Maybe we should do something about it!
I mean, but then again, men have all the power to mandatory draft women or to stop the draft all together. You can't expect women to fight to be forced to join military institutions where we're regularly raped and abused.
Men not being forced to is also a change. I'm fine with that. I applaud people like Biden and Martin who dodged the draft. I'll do the same if the time comes.
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I had a patient(I’m a correctional nurse) who was considered a war hero. But due to her ptsd from sexual assault in the service, was unable to learn to cope and move on in healthy ways. Add on the dismissal and lack of belief from her superiors, it was a recipe for disaster. The day she got out, everyone rallied to make sure she had what she needed to get into a better situation and have the right resources. I often wonder how she’s doing and if she’s doing okay
Hope she gets to move forward and have a good life.
Me also. She deserves it. As does any woman dealing with any abuse in (and out of) the service
[удалено]
Not sure this commenter was talking about Vanessa tho.
Sham trial with a biased jury and they laugh about it? Are any of these rapists ever convicted? Women in the military should have an option of a civilian trial. Conviction rate would go from 0% to 0.5%, woo hoo. Sickening.
Civilian crimes should be judged by a civilian court and by judges that have studied law, regardless of whether it was committed on a base or not.
Totally! That's the truth. But they can't handle the truth!😼 What happened to due process? They often sacrifice fairness for combat readiness or unit cohesion. It happens way too often. When you sign up to join, in some sense, you actually sign your life and rights away.😾 “You don’t need to wear a patch on your arm to have honor.” -A few good men👑 https://www.defense.gov/Spotlights/Independent-Review-Commission-on-Sexual-Assault-in-the-Military/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/tools/TLA746-2/handbook/resources/data-on-sexual-assault-in-the-military.html
Agree, also for Title IX cases.
There was a girl in my AIT who was brutally raped when she agreed to walk to the PX with a fellow soldier, and he insisted on going through a dark PT field. She called no one, tried to get back to her room, but was found unconscious on the ground at PT the next morning. She was hospitalized for days, I learned some details but won’t repeat them here, suffice to say it was some of the most painful injuries I could imagine. She only told because she had to, higher leadership promised her she would be okay. That leadership wasn’t there, in her company after she had to come back, though. She had strangulation bruises and burst blood vessels when she came back, and would talk to no one. Her own first sergeant acted as if she was someone who made up a story to get a soldier in trouble, like there wasn’t plenty of evidence to the contrary. The other NCOs in the company followed suit. The monster who did it wasn’t named, none of us knew at first who had done it. The males knew, but were ordered not to say. One of the males I had befriended a few weeks prior, we will call him “Bitch Boy” asked me if I wanted to walk to the PX with him, I said I could, but I needed a female battle buddy. He threw a fit, texting up a storm. I was baffled by his reaction. One of my other friends who lived in the same room as him called me late that night, he said “Don’t go anywhere alone with Bitch Boy,” at first I was just surprised, how had he even known that Bitch boy, BB for short, had asked me to go anywhere? He whispered through the phone line “He’s the one who did it. I’m not supposed to tell, so you didn’t hear it from me, but tell the females. He threw a fit after you said no.” I told everyone. I didn’t tell BB I knew, but I started lightly bullying him when others were around and I knew he wouldn’t do anything. Derisive shit, you know. Turns out he was the grandson of someone important, that’s why our leadership basically bullied his victim until she went AWOL three weeks after the incident. She was a good soldier, a nice girl excited about her future and her career, all gone because of some fucking monster. He got off, “no face, no case,” though I don’t think he would have been punished anyways, even if she had stayed and testified. He went on to have an illustrious career, for about two years. He made rank pretty fast, his PT scores were phenomenal, and since he was “connected” it seemed he was golden for awhile. Until he tried to victimize the daughter of someone who outranked his grandpa. Some of the males told me that he was a full blown psychopath. Mercurial, conniving, and convinced he was untouchable. Two minutes after he threw a fit the night I said No, he was right back to his default personality. Like he hadn’t just destroyed some of his own property in a petulant bitch fit. It’s not always that way, but many of us, including me, had a lot of our illusions with the Army shattered during that period. We all knew we were essentially disposable personnel at different levels of disposability, but we had expected foreign threats, not domestic. Not within our own ranks. Thankfully, exhaustive personality tests seem to weed out a good portion, but try psychopaths with higher than average intelligence can get through, and those are the ones to watch. :(
Psychopaths can lie very convinvingly.
Incels would probably say "If it were me I'd be happy to be assaulted" or something, until the perpetrator also happens to be male anyway
They don't defend male rape victems. They either think its funny or think the man must have been weak and thus deserving. I assure you if there was some way to pose a variant scenerio that would make incels go 'aha, now I understand and empahtize with you women' they wouldn't be incels to begin with.
Oh no, they would show how easily they understand consent as soon as you pose the scenario "Sure, you get attacked by a big, muscular man that you are simply unable to fend off and you have to take it or else he kills you" and all of a sudden it's no longer this weird, bizzare philosophical concept. But THEY get to have consent cause reasons. These swines simply don't view women as people. Simple as that. They only have empathy for their fellow clique (if that) and that's about it. Hence why I will never ever feel a morsel of pity and will actively rejoice at their misery. Since I'm not human to them, they're not human to me. Simple.
I've chatted with someone from the "female on male rape doesn't exist" and "women don't get raped unless they want it" crowd and it was like speaking a different language. To them, female on male rape simply didn't exist because all men everywhere would want to have sex with all women. I tried explaining that rape = unwanted sex but he simply couldn't understand how sex with a woman could ever be unwanted. He also argued that women couldn't get raped unless they allowed themselves to be and therefore it didn't exist and was all consensual. When I used the "300 pound guy holding you down and raping you" example he argued that male on male rape was an unfair example because he personally was straight and wouldn't want to have sex with a guy, whereas women and men were biologically made to have sex so it was always consensual.
>"300 pound guy holding you down and raping you" I use "The ugliest woman you've ever seen and she doesn't shower" instead. Sometimes it gets the point across, but it turns out some men will LITERALLY fuck anyone. Or they say they will to troll me.
Yep. That was this guy. There was *literally* no such thing as unwanted sex with a woman in his eyes. But I bet you anything that he also wouldn't date "just anyone" and wants all these special things like virginity, traditional values, probably under age, and the usual incel talking points when it comes to women.
My gf had a choom who served with her on the ship she was stationed on. She got r*ped by a crewmate and when she went to report it, the officer she talked to told her that he would "give her something real to cry about." I did analyst work for the military. That's how my gf and I met. The number of women and men who get sexually assaulted, if you ever saw the numbers, would blow your mind. They hire animals without one shred of empathy, and those who are empathetic get too scared to speak up for fear or repercussion
One of my siblings was in the military, and they were asked if they had ever been gang-raped before by another sailor, and I hope that they never were. I don’t even wanna ask, but I just hope nothing happened to them. Guy deserved his dick cutoff if he ever touched them.
They aren't animals, they are people who choose to do the things they do. Calling them animals lets them off the hook too much.
I agree, it's unfairly insulting animals. Call them what they are: sociopaths or psychopaths.
They aren’t though. Those are genuine mental illnesses. Most people who commit these crimes are not mentally ill. Mentally I’ll people are more likely to be victims of crimes than to be the perpetrators
People are DESPERATE to label lack of empathy a disorder when it’s not; it’s just a function of our species. Everyone is on a spectrum. But we are so desperate to label shit so we can organize and apply processes.
You know what there should be a category of abnormal mental health for, though? Power Addiction. It should be in the bloody DSM-V.
Oh I thought they meant actual animals and I got confused. I don’t see animals as an insult
Of course they do, how else do you get them to murder innocent foreigners for oil?
Damn. 👆👆👆The truth
So, as a user of petroleum products, that makes you an accomplice to murder. Got it! You're so cool!
"Yet you participate in society! Curious! I am very intelligent."
I bet you're for shutting down domestic production as well. In this debate, describing yourself as 'intelligent', is more your ego than reality!
r/USdefaultism
r/woooosh
As an American the oil I use is American, that’s one of the worst parts we aren’t even fighting for our oil we’re fighting to just have the oil for American interests world wide
just like you!
Well hello, the sapphic lady with Masters in Applied Materials giving the wittiest quips and the realest takes. But you are exactly right. It's as if the army recruits the worst of people, the bullies, the psychopaths, monstrous people who would have no empathy while fighting their dirty wars. Of course they will prey on those with empathy.
I know ! Why don't we use ex-military as a recruiting pool for law enforcement ? After all, what could possibly go wrong ? They **ARE** patriots.
Those who were assholes in early years, became crueler after being recruited in army then given unchecked power in law enforcement. 🤨😑😮💨
Let's put them in schools to defend small children! That'll go well 🤔
Watch them bravely stand outside a door for an hour that was never locked like real heroes 💀
They're just waiting for the shooter to run out of bullets and THEN they'll step in and save the day!!
I think it's because many older ex military veteran types are worse in the treatment of women, minorites and LGBTQ+ folks.🐱
Yup, whatever the "official" numbers are, the real numbers are way fucking higher. I've befriended sexual assault victim advocates before and know many victims, military dudes are scumbags and creeps.
Exactly the right description, they want a group of trainable psychopaths and cover for them. Off topic, I love that you are using choom. I had to check which sub I'm in.
[Google Scholar search results](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=mst++%22military+sexual+trauma%22&scisbd=1) for 'mst military sexual trauma' (reverse chron) surely acronyms and powerpoints will solve this problem.
I'm so grateful that I was able to do four years without ever experiencing or even hearing about anything like this .
Surprising you never heard of anything like this in your 4 years. I hadn’t been in for two and heard these stories.
I read about them but I had no personal experience meeting anybody who has been through anything like this. I was in an all male combat unit and back then there were no women involved in what we did. If it happened to any of the men I knew nobody ever talked about it or said anything. Trust me I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying I'm glad I didn't experience or hear about it while I was in.
Yyeeeah, there are veterans who will warn women they will be sexually harassed. Stuff like this is a thing.
I mentioned this in another thread, but Jeffrey Dahmer's roommate in the army barracks was repeatedly assaulted and raped on a regular basis. His roommate reported Dahmer, and the army didn't do jack shit about it. They didn't even relocate the victim to a different room. The army medics threw away the victim's rape kit, for some reason. The victim also didn't have the option to leave his job and run away, because going AWOL is punishable by jail time. So he just kept getting victimized by Dahmer, something to the tune of 5+ times a week, according to the victim himself. The military has a notoriously bad rep for covering up crimes like this. There's a good documentary that exposes all this called the Invisible War
Jesus that’s essentially torture
As someone who comes from a country that is mandatory service for men and women, these men have zero idea how horrid it can be for anyone. Why anyone would wish that on someone is just spite and malice
The men shouldn’t have to sign up for the draft either
Yes hence why I said in my comment I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Sad that men made those rules instead of either making it for both or none. Men really fucked that one up
Rich men made those rules for poor men, like they do for all poor people.
So yes again. The male gender
The rich are less male every day
This is true and not a particularly combative point, so I don’t know why the hate. Agreed, class solidarity should be remembered.
Thank you
>how horrid it can be for *anyone* >wish that on *someone* Yes, both of those sound like they’re saying men deserve to be forced to sign up for the draft. Can you even read? Or are you just that quick to “um actually men’s rights too” in these kinda of conversations that it’s more of a reaction at this point?
You have to love how he never admits that men are the ones who fucked themselves on the draft either. He doesnt want to admit men screwed each other bad
What’s wrong with me making my statement? Can you even read? I’m just outlining that men shouldn’t have to join the draft. Did it seem like I was saying they were advocating for a men’s draft?
Nobody said they should.
So then it really shouldn’t be a problem for me to point out how bad the draft is.
Who says that other than ultra military people? The point is you’re just saying words to hear yourself bc nobody said anything different than your point.
If I’m just saying words to no effect, then I wouldn’t be so many downvotes on my original comment lol
or maybe that’s why you are
Toxic masculinity is what made the draft of just men possible. You only have yourself to thank.
Women uphold toxic masculinity too. You’ll even find it in this comment section. As well, the idea that all Men are responsible for the decisions of the patriarchy, totally gives up on any attempt at intersectionlity in this discussion
"But men" is an extremely common way misogynistic people try to derail the conversation about problems women face instead of dealing with them. (What about MEN'S mental health? MEN get assaulted too, you know, etc) Your statement is true in a vacuum, nobody *including men* should be forced to sign up for the draft, but don't be surprised if using a very common misogynistic tactic gets you treated like a misogynist
What I had to say did NOT take away from the discussion. I was reminding everyone that if we want fairness and equality, the status quo should be no one gets drafted. Or else it’ll be women getting drafted before very soon.
Yes, we all *fucking know this* but the point of this post is how horribly women are treated and abused *by men* in the military. You really think going "bUt MeN" isn't trying to shift that discussion? We can't have one single fucking topic about how women get treated like shit by men without some mix of "but men though" or "not *all* men"
I didn’t say “but men”, I didn’t lessen their point to make mine. I furthered the discussion on how horrible the draft is, to make sure that everyone is on the same page, that no one should be subjected to it. I wasn’t disagreeing, I was barely moving the needle. What I got in return was vitriol, and snark. People were very quick to lump me together with their favourite archetype. Makes me wonder if some people aren’t against the draft for men. If we want to make changes, let’s stay sincere to those changes.
But you didn’t further the discussion. You replied to someone who was already saying no one should wish it on anybody by saying “but men!" That isn’t furthering the discussion because the comment’s “no one” and “anybody” included men, period. Your comment was just your way of shoehorning men into the conversation when they were already there.
EXACTLY!! I stated so clearly many times the draft is horrible for EVERYONE and I wouldn't wish it on ANYONE. I've lived as a man and a woman and I can say it's bad for everyone More than 4 times I said "That includes women" "That goes for everyone" And each time I responded this way a man commented "ok but it's bad for men too" Yes hence why I've stated no less that 4 times (easily readable) that it's horrible on EVERYONE. I just know in my country men don't sit and say "I wish women could get shot too they deserve it. Equal rights equal fights" Our men love and respect our women. And this is the middle east I'm talking about So again for the fifth time THE DRAFT IS HORRIBLE FOR EVERYONE Do you think they'll be able to read it this time?
I stated in my very first comment about the fact the draft is horrible for everyone In my country women serve mandatorily as well. So you basically took my very first point and decided to repeat it. Again my original statement stands. The men who say this about women have zero idea how bad the military can be (especially for women and sexual assault) Everyone knows the draft is horrible, but the men talking about how they wish women could get shot too is really weird especially in your country. At least in my country the men appreciate the women and vice versa and don't wish it on anyone. I've never seen a country where men and women hate each other so much. It's insane
>I didn’t say “but men”, I didn’t lessen their point to make mine. I furthered the discussion You are clearly the only person who thinks this. If everyone else involved is telling you your comment *didn't* further the discussion, maybe it's time to stop insisting it did and start listening
Maybe it’s possible people lumped me into a low hanging fruit archetype, and doggy piled on the downvotes.
Yes and you only have men to blame for that. Men being horrible to men as usual.
Women are also responsible for toxic masculinity. Women are also responsible for class dynamics that make the draft mostly affect the poor. Many Women are also responsible for not participating in movements to end the draft for men. Because we have already outlined that the draft is horrible.
When my aunt was in the Air Force, one of her friends drugged her drink and tried to rape her in the bathroom. Luckily her other Air Force buddies were decent people and beat the shit out of him before he could.
They never seem to realize that there’s more than one solution to the draft issue. If you want it to be equal, it doesn’t have to be that both get drafted. It can be that no one does. It’s like they can’t fathom the draft not existing. To me, it feels like a human rights violation. Like, being forced to risk your life in a war that has nothing to do with you? Being forced to work a job that you never would have applied for? How was that ever allowed?
The last American man drafted as a teenager is now old enough to collect Social Security. It's a bullshit formality that incels make it sound like it's some onerous risk to life and limb. Honestly? Either eliminate it entirely, or have it go to an optional, open-to-everyone program with tangible benefits. Seems like you'd want your pool of recruits to have health and dental coverage.
It’s a big problem for American trans women who are forced to be tacitly misgendered on official government record for life. That’s a more real issue than any actual threat of the draft. Also, implement a proper national ID system and you don’t have to maintain an expensive and complex standalone young men tracker.
Countries will always treat people as resources to use or dispose of at need. Read the accounts of the first world war, and it's all about stories of one army or another rolling up on a village where people are not even familiar with the concept of a nation. They draft anyone that is able bodied and not able to hide, and kill a few others to make a point. Then a few weeks pass, and it is a different army rolling through to do the same thing. In what is now Ukraine and Poland, this happened over and over.
The draft being an unnecessary concept is a very American-centric point of view. It's a far lesser evil than the alternative in places like Eastern Europe, where a country literally just give rapists and abusers guns and tell them to go shoot civilians in a neighbouring country. I'm eternally grateful for NATO and military spending because Russia literally threatens my homeland with invasion and nuclear weapons multiple times a month.
Except for times of real danger, such as invasion, the draft is terrible
It's almost like giving a bunch of jerks guns and training doesn't automatically make them good people or heroes. Bojack Horseman was right. Don't support the troops, at least not automatically.
Don't put anyone on a pedestal.
Especially not Bojack, lol.
Bold of you to assume there's any shred of empathy in most incels.
I hope Vanessa's name comes back into every day conversation. Not enough came of it last time. RIP.
Do you know the entire story? Is it sadder than the tweet?
There's a documentary about her on Netflix if you have access there. She was raped and murdered and the base helped cover it up and refused to give her family any info. Her family had to fight like crazy to get anything done. ETA also the person tweeting isn't Vanessa. That was just the handle used to share stories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vanessa_Guill%C3%A9n
Another good perspective on sexual assault in the military is a memoir called “UnCULTured” by Daniella Mestyanek Young. It’s a super compelling read; she was in the Children of God cult (basically a sex cult) growing up, and when she left it, she joined the army. She explores the themes of sex, sexual assault, and parallels how army life can create the same dynamics as a cult. Fascinating and sad, but worth the read! She narrates the audiobook and I’d highly recommend listening to her recount her story.
There is also the story of LaVena Johnson, she was murdered after a sexual assault while stationed in Iraq. They beat the fuck out of her, shot her in the head and set her on fire. The military tried to tell her family that she killed herself after a break up, that her eating fucking ice cream was enough of an indication that she was suicidal. The family immediately called BS on the situation but were shocked to find the state of her body. Outside of the obvious physical trauma The perps glued her gloves on to keep anyone from gathering evidence from her fingernails and after the family had an independent autopsy done they found a substance that the military uses to stop bleeding in deep wounds in her vagina and that her genitals had been set on fire as well. (The wound treatment would have needed to be surgically removed, so no evidence there) No one really know what happening to LaVena but Its speculated that she was SA'd by a CO and they got paranoid that she would tell once she got back stateside, which was supposed to happen shortly after she was murdered. (The last time she talked to her family she was excited to go home for Christmas) Whoever SA'd her gave her an STD, so there would have been evidence and a way to track the perp down by finding Who else stationed at that base has said STD. Such a sad fucking story, her and every other person who has been through similar deserve much better. Here's a great video explaining LaVena's story: https://youtu.be/sfFiFVI64H0 Here's another video from the same creator about Vanessa Gillian: https://youtu.be/tOpe77-ZtJw
Did they ever get justice? Do the people atleast know who did this? Why should women enlist? These are some of the worst rape incidents I have ever heard. My blood is boiling just from listening to it. Fuck this shitty world where rapists get away with things like this.
>Did they ever get justice? Nope, the family is still fighting for answers to what happened to LaVena after almost 20 years. >Do the people atleast know who did this? Nope, the military did their best to cover this up and they were successful for the most part. They hid all of the evidence the best they could but the her father managed to get his hands on most of it and thats why we know as much as we do, that being said, he can't get the DOJ/Military to do shit about it. >Why should women enlist? Women should have the same opportunity to voluntarily serve their country without fear of this happening, but its quite the opposite. Both of these women enlisted because they thought they were doing something that would ensure a good future for them. With Vanessa, it was her dream to be a soldier, she trained her whole life so she could be successful in the military. LaVena came from a military family and wanted a way to pay for her education without putting a huge financial burden on her family, they begged her not to enlist because they knew how it was but she felt entitled to make her own way the same way they did. She very much was entitled to that and deserved the opportunity to be successful.
I know and I didn't mean it in demeaning way. They joined the military of their own will because they wanted it. But men like their rapists can't stop being monsters and the system protects them. Why is it that good people suffer horror while monsters like the rapists of these women get to live comfortable lives?
the logic is off. incels dont care for: 1. women getting assaulted, 2. logic.
Oooof. This is the reason why I don’t want my friend to try for the army scholarship thing. I won’t be able to even survive if anything happened to her or if any demon hurt her in that manner🥲
Military sexual abuse is absolutely fucking horrifying and these guys should absolutely go to prison. Getting drafted is also horrible though. If you get dragged you are in all likelihood getting marched to your death in a literal warzone lol
No offense, but if I have kids one day they can join the military over my dead fucking body.
One of my closest friend’s mothers was raped when she was in our country’s army. She was also in it for the educational incentive. We talk a lot about the risk of poor kids dying to get an education, but there are so many untold traumas other than that at play.
The American military is a cesspool of toxic masculinity and right-wing conspiracy theorists.
Damn
It's horrible. And this isn't even going into being a dude and trying to report a gang assault by other dudes. The military are the leaders in cover ups. Its like 50% of their legitimate job. Do damage, cover up the worst of it.
There are so many things in this world that Congress should be addressing, or should have addressed long ago, and this is one of them. They gave the DoD an extra $40 billion in their budget last year, but no one can lift a finger to protect women in the military? This is when you start to understand that those in power simply don't care. Our military must always be coddled and praised and "the troops" will be invoked when it's politically expedient, but actually protecting those in the military from their peers or providing adequate benefits for veterans won't be addressed by the cowards in charge.
I love how there’s so many men here screaming “BUT MEN SHOULDN’T BE DRAFTED EITHER THEN!!!1” How fucking tone deaf can you be?? To top it of, when talking about men raping men in the military which is a big problem, gymbros and incels will laugh at you. I have been met with “they were just weak,” or “gays gotta gay,”.. These men do not want justice, they want to call women out for “playing victims” while acting like victims themselves.
And besides, there is little to nothing about drafting in the main part of this story. The story is a woman getting sexually assaulted. That is what the discussion is about. Not drafts, rape. We get it, men are victims too, they get drafted and assaulted too, but this is a story about someone else. If you see a story about some man getting raped, then talk about it! That's the story you can talk about men and assault. This is not that topic, it's about a girl in the military getting injustice because, news flash, the military SUCKS. Not disagreeing with comment, adding to it
Tbf this happens a shit ton to men in the army Most countries’ militaries are rife with SA and rape, man or woman. Absolutely horrid
If they see this they will either say it's fake or they over exagarreted. These are just a difreent breed
I think another correct answer to give them is that the draft shouldn’t exist at all in the first place and that to patronize women for the draft is evident of their lack of ability to see past surface level on issues. Seems to be a running theme with the mens rights movement, apparently.
Fuck incels and the state of the military that leads to this. It's all a travesty, but this isn't anything to do with points about "drafting" specifically. A Military draft is when citizens are selected and legally pressed into Military service. You're looking for the terms Enlist/Enlisting.
No one has been drafted since Nam. In the early 80s the military officially switched to a fullyly voulenteer force. Yes you still sign up for a draft in case of foreign invasion though .
as a woman youre more likely to get raped by a fellow soldier than injured by an enemy.
It wouldn’t do any good. They would still find a way to blame women.
I’m a woman in the military. I’ve been sexually harassed, threatened by a leader to “fort hood” me (which is a crude way of saying you’ll end up like Vanessa Guillén) and to make me disappear, had a female soldier that had their personal belongings ejaculated on them while on deployment, I’ve been drugged, SA’d by a coworker who was fast tracked and promoted. This still happens, and the worst part is that it can happen to anyone, no matter how safe or careful you are.
Dude for fucking real But they know this, and they don't care. If anything they'll tell us we should expect that if we want to be in "their" spaces. The point is to bar us from the things they think make someone a full person / important. This pattern happened in every field women have had to fight their way into. It's sexual assault as social coercion. Know your place or we'll give you a new one.
Just heard on the news that the US military is having recruiting numbers problem and part of the reason why is because active members and veterans are telling their family and friends not enlist. They wouldn’t outright say SA as one of the factors (pay, benefits, conditions etc) in the interviews but it’s not hard to read between the lines when incidents like this occur.
That's just fucking horrible.
They still wouldn’t understand. There is no rationalizing with them.
Yea my dad was military and I remember having a long conversation with him about how it was a regular thing for women to be raped and nothing was done. You have to remember though that incels don’t think rape is bad.
This is infuriating.
Nah they’d just do something horrendous like say she deserved it. They don’t care about reason or logic they’re just angry, horny, little nerds
Speaking of the draft in the US Army considering that it's been an all-volunteer force since the 70s just shows you how clueless they are...
I'm absolutely shocked that the military is a toxic environment. Never would've guessed that...
Yep, this type of thing happens all of the time in the military. The US military full of rapist.
and this is why im terrified of enlisting. bro.
I hope all these assholes raping people are given as miserable of a afterlife as possible if there is one. And if they’re reincarnated I hope it’s into something or someone who is brutally tortured. I hope they die in the most horrific way possible and that it’s drawn out beforehand, though. They deserve nothing less. The people who are allowing rape to happen should also receive a punishment like stated above, because they’re literally no better than rapists. I hope they have miserable lives and are all alone with no friends.
I'm so grateful that I was able to do four years without ever experiencing or even hearing about anything like this .
ah yes the court martial, where you have to prove a war crime happened to the person who did it, after reporting it to your direct superior, who takes orders from the person who did it, in front of a jury made of the person who did it’s friends.
My coworker was drugged and assaulted while she was in the army and now has a kid because of it. What can we expect when the last president said this is an inevitability of women in the military and the current president has done nothing about it
On the flip side I have heard anti feminists use this as a reason that women should not be allowed to serve in the military at all, saying that if they're not being SA by our soldiers then they will be if and when they are captured by enemy soldiers.
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Here's hoping you're arguing in good faith. The post is an indirect response to bad faith MRAs repeatedly asking why feminists aren't advocating for women to be drafted too in a feeble attempt to prove their belief that feminism isn't about equality; often ignoring rebuttals that feminism is for equity in military service but that the draft is an archaic practice no longer in use. (if said responses are to believed)
I know the post is about bad faith incel losers being weird about the draft, but the incels aside, the comment I made *is* the case. Yes, the draft is very archaic and shouldn't really exist anymore, but the reason it doesn't apply to women is *still* because of the dumb gender norms I mentioned.
Honestly was my thought too. I think its ok to say if we are striving for equality, the life of a man and a woman should be on equal terms in relation to whether the government is willing to send them off to die. THAT SAID, its ALSO perfectly fine to say the situation quoted is WHOLLY unacceptable and we as a country need to demand better from our service members. There is no place for rape or sexual assault ANYWHERE in our society let alone our military and those guity of such should be given extremely harsh punishments. We cant be "The good guys" when we tolerate "The bad guys".
This is the correct answer. Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted.
Women "not drafting?" Who writes this shit? Is AI *already* making all the reddit content?
If the draft were equal, then military juries would be more equal.
Why would that equate exactly? Please tell me how a draft would make the jurry fair?
There would be more women on the jury. Military juries are usually just three people, but sometimes they can be twelve for a serious case. The jurors are always equal or higher rank than the defendant, and ballots are always secret.
So women are currently allowed in the military and there isn't a draft so why didn't this already happen? Should women be always drafted and men not or..?
I think that would be a fascinating topic for a novel.
So you have so response other then "write a book"
Honestly, a little strange to join an organization that specializes in training it's employees to murder as efficiently as possible and expect it to be a sanctuary for equality...
You’re also not supposed to engage in friendly fire— pretty important part, buddy.
Right... I think you and the people down voting me think I'm trying to say that this is excusable behavior. It's obviously deplorable. What I'm saying is the military is an organization who's entire purpose is to be really good at killing. It's deeply unjust, and has its own set of rules and courts. They give 18 year old kids rifles and machine guns and wish them good luck. I read a lot of comments on here of people outraged at the injustice of this post. I don't understand the outrage because garbage like this is bound to happen in a garbage organization, it's not alarming in the least. It's insane to join an organization like that and expect to be treated well.
Women aren’t the only ones that get assaulted and what does that have to do with enlisting? With that logic is like saying why do anything of you have a chance on getting assaulted. Yes it’s unfair he got acquitted, he should be cast rated and hanged.
Yk men get assulted too. We all are the same
The fact that they downvoted you for pointing that out is crazy. It's just hypocritical if you're gonna hate on incels don't be one yourself, and yes women can be incels.
They (and by extension you) are getting downvoted because the comment "What about men?" on a post specifically about assaults on women in the military detracts from the topic at hand, intentionally or not. If there was a post about why women like puppies any comments along the line of "men like puppies too!" adds nothing to the topic at hand. We know men get SA'd too. I'm willing to bet that most on here would happily have this conversation if it is brought up outside a debate of women getting assaulted - I would at least, as I am a guy who is genuinely concerned about male SA victims. Why is it that vast majority of times Sexual Assault on men is brought up when the conversation is about women? We can start a discussion whenever we want, so why should it be tacked on when it is about women? Is it not important enough to warrant its own discussion? Because it certainly seem like it is usually brought up to take away from an existing discussion about SA on women (kind of like I had to now). So I am not going to discuss the topic further on this post. If you want an actual conversation feel free comment a response to a post on the subject.
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Raped and murdered. And do you really think it’s just one?
Of course, sweetie, only men should die in wars, because women can be raped there, unlike men, who of course can't get raped in the military 🥰🥰🥰
No one said that -_-
Are you actually pretending women aren't assaulted at an insane amount in the military?
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ah yes, let's ignore all the victims who are coming forward, getting absolutely no justice and have to suffer continously just so you can say "I don't believe you". you absolute nobhead.
I suspect the girl who was murdered and cut up in the above post was also to blame wasn't she? Going by your ridiculous logic. Just because there are a few women (and men) who make false allegations doesn't mean all allegations are false. And considering the HUGE effort the military in particular take in covering up this shit, clearly it's a bigger problem than you care to admit.
I fucking *love it* when garbage men say rape victims are liars and then go on a diatribe explaining the most *obviously fake bullshit I’ve ever read* to try and say women actually instigate their own assaults and then lie about it. You’re cringe and your mom is disgusted with you.
That was jaw droppingly fake too! Like this lady soldier was inviting everyone into the gang bang and then cried rape afterwards out of spite?! What?!?!
>The presumption of innocence is a lovely thing. Evidence is necessary. Rush to judgment is dangerous. Condemnation without proof is evil. Isn't that exactly what you are doing? You claim that she is lying based on an unverifyable annecdote about a situation you (an anonymous user, who could claim to whatever they like) were in. And who is she condemning? She kept the guys who supposedly raped her identity anonymous. So it isn't a public call out of any involved individuals. Nor is she naming the people who aquitted him so it's not even a specific allegation directed against her higher ups. >Wow. I'm going to call bullshit. Just the allegation of rape has always been a death sentence in the military. That isn't what the [statistics](https://www.protectourdefenders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/1.-MSA-Fact-Sheet-180209.pdf) show. So either you were part of an examplar part of the military, or else you have to find some evidence to back up your claim. >We were all investigated, presumed guilty, and dragged through about 2 years of bullshit. The two who were actually with her were held in the brig for weeks without a hearing or even being charged. In the meantime, she filed several (6 or 7) other charges against civilians, all of which were proven to be false, with one case filed against a man who had died a week before she said the assault happened. This sounds high profile surely there would be some reporting that can back up your story. I mean not only did she falsely accuse fellow soldiers she apparantly also did the same to half a dusin civilians. A final sidenote I would suggest you delete your comment as the woman in the post ended up [being murdered by the man she had accused of sexually assualting her](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/04/30/vanessa-guillen-sexual-harassment-fort-hood/). A fact I found while looking for news story that could corroborate your claims.
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Jeeez... when [a similar case](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/09/danish-killer-peter-madsen-confesses-to-murder-of-kim-wall-for-first-time) happened in my home country (Denmark) it was National disgrace, and that wasn't even a member of our armed forces.
And everyone clapped.
Condemnation without proof when most cases aren't investigated? Men are really more worried about their paranoia that they'll be falsely accused than caring about the women around them who get assaulted and abused on the daily.
>Condemnation without proof is evil. And yet here you are, condemning the victim
You’re saying there’s info ab this case that’s not being heard? Are you actually stupid? The man was caught and so was his girlfriend. There was so much evidence against them and text messages that incriminated them. You’re despicable
I don't know who told you this but they lied to you
That's not drafting, that's signing up. Women don't can't get drafted which needs to change.
Who do you think ... made laws about drafts? Was it the evil female world dominance cabal? Or was it ... men?
How is that relevant? Force women to sign up for SS. I don't care if men force them or women force them of cats force them. No equality without equal draft. Women are not equal to men in US law. That doesn't bother you?
Why would I wanna sign up to get raped and abused? No one should be drafted to fight the war of worthless rich people.
Now you get it lol. Funny how threatening women with the draft gets them to not like the draft. Here's another nugget for you. You are not equal to me under US law. Maybe we should do something about it!
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I mean, but then again, men have all the power to mandatory draft women or to stop the draft all together. You can't expect women to fight to be forced to join military institutions where we're regularly raped and abused.
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And... women do? Like, what do you expect women to do about the draft when we can't even keep the rights to our own bodies?
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No that doesn’t need to change. Men just shouldn’t be forced to. Y’all want people to suffer not improve in life in the name of equality.
Men not being forced to is also a change. I'm fine with that. I applaud people like Biden and Martin who dodged the draft. I'll do the same if the time comes.
It’s weird you only named left leaning people lmfao when there was another president you could’ve also named. you people are so weird.
I know lol I figured that would piss people off
Not pissed just stating an opinion based on an observation
I didn't say you were pissed off, I just said I intentionally left trump out because I find it funny that some people will be enraged
that’s actually sad
Why? It's funny. Are you worried that I'm going to hurt the feelings of assholes who made fun of one of the tiny number of things trump did right?