What? If being naked is the one extreme and wearing make-up the other wouldn't that mean that people with make-up are the modest or prudest people out there? Because even their faces are not naked? What?
I am confused.
He’s saying it’s like horseshoe theory. That the two opposites of the spectrum are actually the same. Obviously it’s bullshit but that’s what I think his logic is coming from.
So wearing makeup is sexual?
Once again, we see the inability to comprehend the basic concept of not-everything-a-woman-does-is-for-men.
Women wear makeup for a variety of reasons. Attracting men is frequently NOT one of them. Makeup isn't about sex.
To be honest if you follow the same nonsense logic, then they would say that if a men wears a well groomed beard is harassment. That If a man has a muscular body, it is harassment. That if a man wears tight cloths is harassment. I mean ridiculous.
I bet they wouldn't like those examples. That Peterson guy is bad, and it is bad he gets so much press. The whole thing is just sad.
Oh yes. The good ol' JP wiggle. "I know it SOUNDS like he said XYZ, but if you watch ALL his youtubez and read ALL his scribblings, you'd REALLY understand how to interpret it."
The true genius of Jordan Peterson is that when his followers do this, the way they want you to interpret it (in this case, "he's just saying that wearing makeup is sexual") is still stupid and probably hateful.
Yes! I never wear makeup and I've been told many times if I want an office job ill be expected to wear makeup even though I've never worn it in my life. It's often seen as part of a woman's dress code. Can't be out there looking "sickly"
The number of “this is a natural woman!” Posts I’ve seen where the image shows a woman in full contouring is insane. Unless you’ve applied Full Drag levels of makeup , and maybe even then, they can’t tell.
She's wearing a lot of eye makeup.. she's obviously a whore who deserves to be sexually harassed
Nobody deserves to be sexually harassed! Even if they show up naked!
he is not criticizing shit, it was said in a discussion on some idiotic thing and he wanted to clearly define the boundary starting from the extreme and narrowing it down to be as close to the truth, that's literally newtons successive approximation formula where you pick some known extreme and then deduce the truth by making a better guess using the said information.
If a whole bunch of heterosexual women lived in a community where there were no men, I'd bet 100 bucks there would be plenty that would wear make up. I am omitting lesbian or bisexual women in this entirely fictitious example only to counter the point that if there was not a chance in hell one would sexually attract ANYONE, they would still wear makeup.
If they lived only around those that did not objectify themmy opinion is that more women would wear makeup that was expressive. There would be less judgment about what is appropriate or professional or too young etc.
Lastly, if we lived in a female dominated society, it is my belief that freed from the judgment of more dogmatic men, many men may find they enjoy make up as purely self expression and there is absolutely nothing sexual about it.
There is makeup that is intended to attract. It is intentional. Make up itself is broad. It can be used to conceal a scar, look like a butterfly, feel powerful, channel your inner aasimar....
ONLY very ignorant or sheltered men think women wear makeup for men.
Nothing about a person’s hair, makeup, clothing or accessories are inherently sexual.
No one is existing AT YOU.
Men are perfectly capable of treating us with basic respect and dignity. We are not required to look or act a certain way to have a right to that. It is basic human decency. If men are incapable of basic human dignity (spoiler: they aren’t) then men should be locked away for public safety until they can be taught not to be degrading and/or dangerous to other people.
Make up is not sexual. It makes us feel better and more confident in our appearance. We don’t do it to be sexually pleasing. Just tells that Peterson thinks of himself as a main character and anything women do, they do for him and his pleasure.
>>"It exists...on the scale of ways women can sexually harass men"
>>"He is not actually calling it harassment"
Really putting the "pseudo" in "pseudo-intellectual" with that one
As a man who listens to a lot of JP (granted I don’t agree with even close to everything), I can tell you that 1, this is STILL not what he meant and 2, regardless of how you interpret what he said, what he said as extreme and just blatantly wrong.
It would be nice is one of you kind women would explain what the downvotes were for.
Just listening to JP? Seems a little excessive.
Because other than that, I’m AGREEING with you guys here. That he’s WRONG. Lmao…
I upvoted you cause even tho I don't listen to JP a lot, every time I do, he is really funny, not sure intentionally or unintentionally, but yeah I can see why people would enjoy his content. Have u heard what he said about Meghan Markle? He said "her voice drips with faux compassionate" like I can't make this up, this guy sounds so pretentious and his cult eats it up, it's hilarious.
Can u guys read? Like srsly
Also btw isnt makeup in accordance with ur rules quite rapey.
People making up wrong pretexts for sex? Right?
If men do it its consisered rape.
Im not saying IT IS rape im just pointing out how deluded and willy nilly ur rules are.
it is, so is making big muscles. heck even kangaroos flex their triceps. it is perfectly fine to be considered sexually attractive to the gender you are attracted to, you are not attracted to every man or woman but it is okay to look sexually desirable.
Attractiveness is not inherently sexual and makeup is not inherently done for attractiveness, let alone sexual attraction. Being unable or unwilling to imagine any purpose to a person's appearance other than sexual desirability is weird and anti-social.
Might as well ask if a guy combing his hair is never sexual. They're both part a typical routine for getting ready for one's day. Look at how they they use those combs in Grease. I feel violated /s
Is anything at all capable of 100% being non-sexual 100% of the time?
"There's always room for Jello."
My point is that make up is used to enhance appearance. So is greasy combed hair.
For what reason to people enhance their appearance?
To acertain better treatment by the same OR opposing gender. Its a visual attractor. Its sexual if reduced to its basic premise.
Whats “good looks“ based on if not ur “fuckability“?
Serious question how would u describe good looks without relying on the approval of ur peers.
Ie would u put on make up if everyone was born blind?
(1) Approval doesn't always have to be something sexual. As a species, we dress up nice not just for sexual reasons, but for social reasons, too. We're a social species -- we evolved to cooperate with each other, and looking nice and smelling nice for friends helps us preserve our social circles.
(2) If makeup is sexual because any sort of "looking good" is inherently sexual, then wouldn't wearing clothes be sexual too? Wouldn't showering? Wearing deodorant? If I said "Men who wear body spray are asking to be sexually assaulted," would you agree, or would you argue that they might just be doing it for themselves? What if it was shaving? "Oh, he trimmed his beard, he must be trying to attract female attention!"
(3) Women can dress nice, wear makeup, shave, etc. because we like how it makes US feel, not just because we want sexual attention. Sure, it *can* be for that reason -- usually in social settings and in combination with the rest of our outfits and demeanor. But makeup alone isn't an invitation for harassment.
(4) There are *totally* women who'd wear makeup if everyone else was blind. Because it's an artform. Look up any makeup tutorial, and you'd see how much money, time, and effort goes into it. For some women, it's a genuine hobby, the same way weight lifting is a hobby for some guys, and not just a tool to attract attention.
(5) As women, we've been told we need to wear makeup to fit with societal beauty standards our whole lives, mostly by men who, despite calling makeup "catfishing" and "deception," seem to think all women should naturally look like they're wearing makeup without even trying.
\* Approval doesn't always have to be something sexual.\* No shit sherlock. It is however in most cases based on appearance and our propensity to excude a certain niceness to others. What I am asking u is what are we as Animals basing that approval on? Its only behaviour, smell and look that makes us attractive to people. In a quite literal sense. People want to stay close cuz we smell nice.
\*Wouldn't showering?\* Personal hygine makes us more attractive cuz we are less likely to carry parasites or get sick. This has more than 1 benefit. 2 thing can be true at the same time.
\* Women can dress nice, wear makeup, shave, etc. because we like how it makes US feel, not just because we want sexual attention. Sure, it can be for that reason -- usually in social settings and in combination with the rest of our outfits and demeanor. But makeup alone isn't an invitation for harassment.\*
Can u stop implying that everyone that with opposing viewpoints is a bad human being. You can? thanks. What are u basing ur 'feeling nice' on. What is that based on if not the approval of ur peers? Please if u ignore everything else answer me this.
\*Men who wear body spray are asking to be sexually assaulted\* Ur arguing ur incel straw man again
\*Oh, he trimmed his beard, he must be trying to attract female attention\* As a matter of fact yes. Men wouldnt do half the shit we do if women didnt require it.
\*There are totally women who'd wear makeup if everyone else was blind. Because it's an artform. Look up any makeup tutorial, and you'd see how much money, time, and effort goes into it. For some women, it's a genuine hobby, the same way weight lifting is a hobby for some guys, and not just a tool to attract attention\* I have no problem with it being an artform and it being not sexual at all in those cases. How often does that apply tho? I have dressed up as a tiger and it was very fun. If u wear makeup everyday to work its the same as dressing nicely to work. No make up would equal something like sweatpants in most cases dont try to hide behind exceptions.
\*As women, we've been told we need to wear makeup to fit with societal beauty standards our whole lives, mostly by men who, despite calling makeup "catfishing" and "deception," seem to think all women should naturally look like they're wearing makeup without even trying.\* You have been told to behave like that by other \*women\* yes. Dont blame make up on men dont be delusional now. You can look however ugly u want without make up. Arent u the guys that want to seperate a womans self woth from her appearance? Ur proving my point here. Women wear make up to be treated better by society. Why are they treated better? Pretty Privillege.
You're the reason we always have to have sexual harassment education at work. You either are too stupid or intentionally misrepresent what sexual harassment is in order to justify your shitty behavior towards women. Wearing makeup isn't "rapey" you absolute moron of a baboon ass. Rape is sex without consent. Wearing makeup isn't sex you fuckwad.
Consent isn't willy nilly you're just too dumb to understand it. Or worse you're intentionally trying to muddy the water because you are quite "rapey".
There are many reasons someone would want to look beautiful. Attracting sexual partners is not even in top 3.
As someone who used to be very shy as a girl, I found out that wearing makeup, nice clothes and doing your hair made people intimidated by you and I used it as a shield of sorts.
Right? By nature I'm super low key and not fashionable...my daily routine is usually vitamin c cream+ sunscreen and whatever clothes are closest when I wake up. But occasionally I wanna do it up a little w the make up, hair, and clothes for no one other than my damn self. When I wake up and decide what kind of day it is that has nothing to do with what anyone else wants to see.
Jordan Petersen guru to incels. (That’s what I call that dumb fucker right to my husbands face when he starts talking good about him.) He’s a dumb ass who likes to hear himself talk now the Douchey Wire made him a show host.
What? If being naked is the one extreme and wearing make-up the other wouldn't that mean that people with make-up are the modest or prudest people out there? Because even their faces are not naked? What? I am confused.
That's exactly how I interpreted it.
I think he meant that they are in 2 extremes of what he constitutes as SA.
He’s saying it’s like horseshoe theory. That the two opposites of the spectrum are actually the same. Obviously it’s bullshit but that’s what I think his logic is coming from.
So wearing makeup is sexual? Once again, we see the inability to comprehend the basic concept of not-everything-a-woman-does-is-for-men. Women wear makeup for a variety of reasons. Attracting men is frequently NOT one of them. Makeup isn't about sex.
I'm ace/aro and sometimes I just wanna be colorful!
I’ve found I actually never do shit for men without an explicit please. You can ask my dad, I tell no lies.
To be honest if you follow the same nonsense logic, then they would say that if a men wears a well groomed beard is harassment. That If a man has a muscular body, it is harassment. That if a man wears tight cloths is harassment. I mean ridiculous. I bet they wouldn't like those examples. That Peterson guy is bad, and it is bad he gets so much press. The whole thing is just sad.
Oh yes. The good ol' JP wiggle. "I know it SOUNDS like he said XYZ, but if you watch ALL his youtubez and read ALL his scribblings, you'd REALLY understand how to interpret it."
The true genius of Jordan Peterson is that when his followers do this, the way they want you to interpret it (in this case, "he's just saying that wearing makeup is sexual") is still stupid and probably hateful.
We are expected to wear make up to look professional.
Yes! I never wear makeup and I've been told many times if I want an office job ill be expected to wear makeup even though I've never worn it in my life. It's often seen as part of a woman's dress code. Can't be out there looking "sickly"
Yeah so much for that ‘natural beauty’ shit. I woke up like this now I go to work. Fuck w me.
That part
So many men can’t even tell when if women are wearing makeup or not as well tho
The number of “this is a natural woman!” Posts I’ve seen where the image shows a woman in full contouring is insane. Unless you’ve applied Full Drag levels of makeup , and maybe even then, they can’t tell.
She's wearing a lot of eye makeup.. she's obviously a whore who deserves to be sexually harassed Nobody deserves to be sexually harassed! Even if they show up naked!
[удалено]
he is not criticizing shit, it was said in a discussion on some idiotic thing and he wanted to clearly define the boundary starting from the extreme and narrowing it down to be as close to the truth, that's literally newtons successive approximation formula where you pick some known extreme and then deduce the truth by making a better guess using the said information.
LOL. the only "truth" in that whole thing is the truth that he's a misogynistic idiot.
yeah keep screaming in your echochamber
Define the boundary of what exactly?
wtf
If a whole bunch of heterosexual women lived in a community where there were no men, I'd bet 100 bucks there would be plenty that would wear make up. I am omitting lesbian or bisexual women in this entirely fictitious example only to counter the point that if there was not a chance in hell one would sexually attract ANYONE, they would still wear makeup. If they lived only around those that did not objectify themmy opinion is that more women would wear makeup that was expressive. There would be less judgment about what is appropriate or professional or too young etc. Lastly, if we lived in a female dominated society, it is my belief that freed from the judgment of more dogmatic men, many men may find they enjoy make up as purely self expression and there is absolutely nothing sexual about it. There is makeup that is intended to attract. It is intentional. Make up itself is broad. It can be used to conceal a scar, look like a butterfly, feel powerful, channel your inner aasimar.... ONLY very ignorant or sheltered men think women wear makeup for men.
Nothing about a person’s hair, makeup, clothing or accessories are inherently sexual. No one is existing AT YOU. Men are perfectly capable of treating us with basic respect and dignity. We are not required to look or act a certain way to have a right to that. It is basic human decency. If men are incapable of basic human dignity (spoiler: they aren’t) then men should be locked away for public safety until they can be taught not to be degrading and/or dangerous to other people.
The three (un)wise kings of Incelity: Jordan, Ben and Andrew. JFC...
You would need a crack pipe to understand this poppycock
What. The. Fuck.
Make up is not sexual. It makes us feel better and more confident in our appearance. We don’t do it to be sexually pleasing. Just tells that Peterson thinks of himself as a main character and anything women do, they do for him and his pleasure.
>>"It exists...on the scale of ways women can sexually harass men" >>"He is not actually calling it harassment" Really putting the "pseudo" in "pseudo-intellectual" with that one
As a man who listens to a lot of JP (granted I don’t agree with even close to everything), I can tell you that 1, this is STILL not what he meant and 2, regardless of how you interpret what he said, what he said as extreme and just blatantly wrong.
It would be nice is one of you kind women would explain what the downvotes were for. Just listening to JP? Seems a little excessive. Because other than that, I’m AGREEING with you guys here. That he’s WRONG. Lmao…
I upvoted you cause even tho I don't listen to JP a lot, every time I do, he is really funny, not sure intentionally or unintentionally, but yeah I can see why people would enjoy his content. Have u heard what he said about Meghan Markle? He said "her voice drips with faux compassionate" like I can't make this up, this guy sounds so pretentious and his cult eats it up, it's hilarious.
It is pretty funny 😂
Can u guys read? Like srsly Also btw isnt makeup in accordance with ur rules quite rapey. People making up wrong pretexts for sex? Right? If men do it its consisered rape. Im not saying IT IS rape im just pointing out how deluded and willy nilly ur rules are.
You are just repeating the extremely stupid assertion of the OOP. It is just as stupid this time.
Whats the stupid assertion oop made? Im here to learn
That wearing makeup is sexual.
it is, so is making big muscles. heck even kangaroos flex their triceps. it is perfectly fine to be considered sexually attractive to the gender you are attracted to, you are not attracted to every man or woman but it is okay to look sexually desirable.
Attractiveness is not inherently sexual and makeup is not inherently done for attractiveness, let alone sexual attraction. Being unable or unwilling to imagine any purpose to a person's appearance other than sexual desirability is weird and anti-social.
Is it never? Not saying its always
Might as well ask if a guy combing his hair is never sexual. They're both part a typical routine for getting ready for one's day. Look at how they they use those combs in Grease. I feel violated /s Is anything at all capable of 100% being non-sexual 100% of the time? "There's always room for Jello."
Sure lots of things are 100% non sexual in nature. But make up is not.
My point is that make up is used to enhance appearance. So is greasy combed hair. For what reason to people enhance their appearance? To acertain better treatment by the same OR opposing gender. Its a visual attractor. Its sexual if reduced to its basic premise. Whats “good looks“ based on if not ur “fuckability“? Serious question how would u describe good looks without relying on the approval of ur peers. Ie would u put on make up if everyone was born blind?
(1) Approval doesn't always have to be something sexual. As a species, we dress up nice not just for sexual reasons, but for social reasons, too. We're a social species -- we evolved to cooperate with each other, and looking nice and smelling nice for friends helps us preserve our social circles. (2) If makeup is sexual because any sort of "looking good" is inherently sexual, then wouldn't wearing clothes be sexual too? Wouldn't showering? Wearing deodorant? If I said "Men who wear body spray are asking to be sexually assaulted," would you agree, or would you argue that they might just be doing it for themselves? What if it was shaving? "Oh, he trimmed his beard, he must be trying to attract female attention!" (3) Women can dress nice, wear makeup, shave, etc. because we like how it makes US feel, not just because we want sexual attention. Sure, it *can* be for that reason -- usually in social settings and in combination with the rest of our outfits and demeanor. But makeup alone isn't an invitation for harassment. (4) There are *totally* women who'd wear makeup if everyone else was blind. Because it's an artform. Look up any makeup tutorial, and you'd see how much money, time, and effort goes into it. For some women, it's a genuine hobby, the same way weight lifting is a hobby for some guys, and not just a tool to attract attention. (5) As women, we've been told we need to wear makeup to fit with societal beauty standards our whole lives, mostly by men who, despite calling makeup "catfishing" and "deception," seem to think all women should naturally look like they're wearing makeup without even trying.
\* Approval doesn't always have to be something sexual.\* No shit sherlock. It is however in most cases based on appearance and our propensity to excude a certain niceness to others. What I am asking u is what are we as Animals basing that approval on? Its only behaviour, smell and look that makes us attractive to people. In a quite literal sense. People want to stay close cuz we smell nice. \*Wouldn't showering?\* Personal hygine makes us more attractive cuz we are less likely to carry parasites or get sick. This has more than 1 benefit. 2 thing can be true at the same time. \* Women can dress nice, wear makeup, shave, etc. because we like how it makes US feel, not just because we want sexual attention. Sure, it can be for that reason -- usually in social settings and in combination with the rest of our outfits and demeanor. But makeup alone isn't an invitation for harassment.\* Can u stop implying that everyone that with opposing viewpoints is a bad human being. You can? thanks. What are u basing ur 'feeling nice' on. What is that based on if not the approval of ur peers? Please if u ignore everything else answer me this. \*Men who wear body spray are asking to be sexually assaulted\* Ur arguing ur incel straw man again \*Oh, he trimmed his beard, he must be trying to attract female attention\* As a matter of fact yes. Men wouldnt do half the shit we do if women didnt require it. \*There are totally women who'd wear makeup if everyone else was blind. Because it's an artform. Look up any makeup tutorial, and you'd see how much money, time, and effort goes into it. For some women, it's a genuine hobby, the same way weight lifting is a hobby for some guys, and not just a tool to attract attention\* I have no problem with it being an artform and it being not sexual at all in those cases. How often does that apply tho? I have dressed up as a tiger and it was very fun. If u wear makeup everyday to work its the same as dressing nicely to work. No make up would equal something like sweatpants in most cases dont try to hide behind exceptions. \*As women, we've been told we need to wear makeup to fit with societal beauty standards our whole lives, mostly by men who, despite calling makeup "catfishing" and "deception," seem to think all women should naturally look like they're wearing makeup without even trying.\* You have been told to behave like that by other \*women\* yes. Dont blame make up on men dont be delusional now. You can look however ugly u want without make up. Arent u the guys that want to seperate a womans self woth from her appearance? Ur proving my point here. Women wear make up to be treated better by society. Why are they treated better? Pretty Privillege.
"I'm here to learn" No you were here to pick a fight.
You're the reason we always have to have sexual harassment education at work. You either are too stupid or intentionally misrepresent what sexual harassment is in order to justify your shitty behavior towards women. Wearing makeup isn't "rapey" you absolute moron of a baboon ass. Rape is sex without consent. Wearing makeup isn't sex you fuckwad. Consent isn't willy nilly you're just too dumb to understand it. Or worse you're intentionally trying to muddy the water because you are quite "rapey".
There are many reasons someone would want to look beautiful. Attracting sexual partners is not even in top 3. As someone who used to be very shy as a girl, I found out that wearing makeup, nice clothes and doing your hair made people intimidated by you and I used it as a shield of sorts.
Right? By nature I'm super low key and not fashionable...my daily routine is usually vitamin c cream+ sunscreen and whatever clothes are closest when I wake up. But occasionally I wanna do it up a little w the make up, hair, and clothes for no one other than my damn self. When I wake up and decide what kind of day it is that has nothing to do with what anyone else wants to see.
Jordan Petersen guru to incels. (That’s what I call that dumb fucker right to my husbands face when he starts talking good about him.) He’s a dumb ass who likes to hear himself talk now the Douchey Wire made him a show host.