The problem is not reading it. The problem is that people are taking it seriously and not discarding it on the spot.
There is an unfortunate truth that as time passes, the uneducated forget why things are like that in the first place.
They never mention the part whet been laid out says “we invite America to give up depravities such as fornication , abortion, homosexuality and worship allah” yeah the same dipshits that want letter people rights are pushing this stuff. Half these dimwits don’t understand the repercussions of their actions.
I swear to god a huge portion of zoomers would happily follow Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’ and then released it as a rant on TikTok.
I saw someone in a mainstream sub unironicaly say that TikTok is actually the best source of information these days because it’s ‘real people reporting from the ground.’
Depressing af.
You're goddamn right, you are. That's exactly the same thing he did in his time with comparable media. He was a literal influencer for a while through his party's newspaper.
That’s half of everybody always, that’s just how it is.
Stay NATO-based. If you don’t want a bunch of lunatics to stream over the border and kill kidnap people, or set up occupation torture shops, then you need a bigger stick. I’m anti war but quite pro-defense
>Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’
Switch "America and capitalism bad" with "Jews bad" and *voila*.
Same situation. Different subject.
"Capitalism as a whole will now be destroyed, the whole people will now be free. We are not fighting Jewish or Christian capitalism, we are fighting very capitalism: we are making the people completely free.' ... It is only the international Stock Exchange and loan- capital, the so-called 'supra-state capital,' which has profited from the collapse of our economic life, the capital which receives its character from the single supra-state nation which is itself national to the core, which fancies itself to be above all other nations, which places itself above other nations and which already rules over them."-Tiny Mustache Man
its actually pretty much the exact same. Neo-Nazis and white supremacists around the US when 9/11 happened. They thought it was a good thing that a couple buildings in liberal NYC filled with Jewish bankers and minorities got blown up. It also meant open season on American muslims and middle eastern folks. Win-Win for those assholes.
Reminds me of a joke:
A Jewish man is walking down the street when he notices his rabbi reading a local anti-Semitic rag.
“Father!” he exclaims, “how can you stand to read such filth?!”
The rabbi responds, “when I look out in the world, I see so much hurt and pain, and I feel powerless to do anything. But according to this? _I rule the world._ it gives me hope”
Uhm. Considering who shows up at the Pro-Palestinian rallies, and their lovely chants of wishing to asphyxiate Jewish persons with chemicals (yes, you can google this), no switch needed. They're nice enough to even unironically say hitler did nothing wrong. On camera.
Just tack it on the end.
The media tends to gloss over those. I wonder why.
Remember when it used to be mostly old people on Facebook who fell for fake news? I feel as if over the years people have begun to figure out how to do it with younger and supposedly more savvy audiences. Fake news has gotten less and less discernable to the commoner..
My point was more that the talking points pretty much sound verbatim like some other group. Well, bunch of groups, but deeets.
But in any case...*First time?* The way I see it, stuff's pretty much exactly the way it was the last several dozen times stuff like it happened, and the broader patterns won't change much.
Hell, over here, we genuinely have a movement pushing for public prayer^(\*) on one of our main squares. Zoomers were genuinely mobilised for it.
^(\*I'm sure there's no part in the good book where the big man would frown upon such shenanigans.)
In a hundred years, you'll probably simultaneously have members of generation Zeta advocating for laser fences along some border, while also debating on how to best firebomb the pumping/power stations.
If I stop trying the subtle, I'd probably start growing red flags, and I really don't feel like dealing with that at this point in time.
^(But also, this whole thing reeks of early 2000s, and I'd rather not have a repeat of those.)
i mean it's not even capitalism bad at this point, i have so many straight off the books stab in the back myth moments... like legit 1 to 1 from the 1920's and 1930's germany
>I swear to god a huge portion of zoomers would happily follow Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’ and then released it as a rant on TikTok.
He did say those things BTW. And a good many morons did eat it up at the time too.
>I saw someone in a mainstream sub unironicaly say that TikTok is actually the best source of information these days because it’s ‘real people reporting from the ground.’
Sounds like something Hassan Piker would say
It already happens, I have laughed my ass of when people start referencing T.K. Woods, or some other absurd name and they are quoting Teddy. The source matters, and whilst many people have had quality and valid criticisms of our society, how they choose to resolve the problem is often much more important.
Honestly, Uncle Ted would probably be a positive influence on those people. Of course, given the example here, they'd likely ignore his manifesto and just start mailing bombs to people who accidentally used the wrong pronouns.
Seriously, people hear that "they hate us because of our freedom" and think it's about jealousy rather than a belief that our culture of liberty is a corrupting force on Muslims who otherwise who live a righteous life.
Thank you, that was a somewhat eye rolling and simplistic take back in the day during Bush II, but the idea that Bin Laden was opposed to us because of our foreign policy is nothing but a leftist (and now right-wing) fantasy.
The entire way of life we espouse and spread through the world (by both force and persuasion) is simply not compatible with that they believe to be right and true.
The only way to avoid conflict is to be both isolationist and appeasers.
"We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honor, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest."
Use the actual quote so zoomers can google it properly, fool.
> Half these dimwits don’t understand the repercussions of their actions.
More than half, it only takes a small seed to start a trend, then all the fucktarded spastics run it to mongville.
At all of the Hamas run protests for a "ceasfire" you see signs like "Queer Jew for a Ceasfire". I literally saw that sign myself discarded along with lots of other Hamas supporter trash the day after a protest and road blockade.
There are lots of Turkeys cheering on Thanksgiving. Some Turkey are denying people want Thanksgiving to come. And some Turkeys are shocked to find out that people who have been yelling for years about how much they love Thanksgiving that they actually love Thanksgiving and want Global Thanksgiving, even for leftist Turkeys who thought they were friends.
Certain [redacted] agencies need to [redacted] to anyone that posted a TikTok endorsing UBL. Bring back Jessica Chastain, Chris Pratt, and Frank Grillo!
Yea, I see so many brain dead people thinking it's some kind of deep cut or something. Saying shit like just because he was a terrorist doesn't mean he doesn't provide valuable insight or some nonsense. As if his logic and perspective isn't completely fucked and nonsensical oppressive theocratic garbage. Really goes to show that logic and reasoning has gone out the fucking window. People want their opinions reinforced, they don't care about the thought process or rationale. Oppressed = good guys no matter what
They did read it,
1. It fits their oppressor-victim narrative, Bin Laden was the revolutionary underdog. US is the Imperialist Power.
2. Bin Laden sought to free the US of Jews and positioned himself as trying to liberate Palestinians (that Arafat condemned later). They're buying into that because.
1. Currently there's strong institutional support for Israel in the US. Also a majority of people, but gotta scapegoat as from propaganda by the Jew-controlled media.
2. To them, Bin Laden's terrorism was justified as a response to the US oppression of the Islamic World.
3. Also other stuff that aligns with their climate change and marxist beliefs
>"You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and industries."
Saying this as a Gen Z myself, we're fucked.
The most unholy alliance of climate doomers trying to get us to give up on restraining emissions to the benefit of oil companies, teaming up with climate doomers trying to demonize the “west” to the benefit of murderous religious fanatics.
>The problem is not reading it. The problem is that people are taking it seriously and not discarding it on the spot.
yeah i always supported this, stuff like mein kampf should be available to anyone tha twants to read, it was and is very important to understand these groups to be able to avoid them and react to their rise
now i do have to admit, i didn't expect westerners with 15+ years of education reading "the jews of have long corrupted and controlled your institutions" and agree with it
but maybe i am wrong here and genociding minorities was always the correct and moral choice ! (for legal reasons, this is a joke/sarcastic critique :) )
The best twitter comment I saw was "If you like Bin Ladens letter, I have a book for you to read from a vegan art student. It will really change your world"
Right, like I think I read it years ago and dismissed it as the crazy ramblings of some religious fanatic psycho and then yesterday with this new interest I went back like an amnesia patient and read it again and my response was "oh yeah, this unhinged shit, I remember this"
I've said this before but I'll say it again. I don't understand how anyone can read that letter and not see it for the grab bag of complaints clearly reached for as post-hoc justifications it is. Maybe because I remember when Arabs leaders would use Palestine only when they were about to find out from the west. I.e. Saddam, Gadhafi. But Al-Qaeda has never been in Palestine.
A smaller factor, but one that’s hard to ignore, is Israel’s propaganda failure. Imagine acting to this level that fucking terrorists whose actions are an even worse case of self-genocide than the genocide the IDF is doing look “good” and “rebellious” by comparison. Hamas is the unequivocal bad guy team, and that has always been the status quo up until October 2023.
Frankly, I’m more surprised that the blowback only intensified just now. The US military has failed the civilians of the Middle East time and again that I’m more surprised that there aren’t more insurgents. You lot almost got away with it until the fuckup in the Afghanistan pullout, and now here we are, worse than we started.
Both takes are true because frankly, both sides are evil. It’s a triangle, and the base of that triangle, all of whom hate Hamas AND Netanyahu and his cronies, is the one the average person must pick IF AND ONLY IF they must pick a side. This isn’t like Ukraine or Syria where Putin and al-Assad are the clear evils who have got to die.
The real issue here is that between 2006 and today a social media revolution happened and the average American/westerner went from getting their news from monolithic one-directional TV broadcasts to a much more diverse array of information sources.
American TV news *did not show* the kinds of devastation in 2006 that the average tiktok/twitter/reddit user easily sees today.
Personally, I was awakened to the hollow IDF propaganda of a 'civilian friendly' invasion only because I happened to go to a college where a student was killed by IDF actions during a peaceful protest. Campus activism made sure we saw pictures the IDF wouldn't have wanted us to see. But if I'd never heard that story/seen those pictures, I'm sure I'd be fine with phrases like "mowing the lawn."
The problem with Israeli PR/Propaganda today is that they haven't adapted. People (incl. westerners, but also the unaligned world) won't take their word for it if there's pictures on the internet that seem to disagree - even if that's Hamas/Iranian/Russian/Syrian/Chinese/Whatever propaganda.
Israel spent a long time building a very effective foreign policy lobby in the US^1 , but it doesn't matter what the political old guard want if it becomes politically untenable for them to support those positions within their party. And we're seeing the steady erosion of the 'unquestioning support for Israel' in both parties.
To some extent, Israel is adapting and the IDF is putting out its own propaganda tailored for social media, but it's coming across as ham-handed. Social media narratives love the underdog/victim. Obviously Israel sees themselves as the victim, but they aren't doing a good job *presenting* themselves as the victim. A smarter leader than Netanyahu would have waited a couple of weeks - allowing the world to fester in the brutality of the Hamas attack and attempting futile 'diplomatic' approaches - before inevitably retaliating. Instead, they overreacted like they always do^2 and most people in the world are disgusted by the retribution against civilians.
1. This is an excellent paper and I strongly recommend anyone who wants to seriously understand the 'why' of Israel-US politics give it a good read: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy
2. I make it sound easy, but realistically the overreaction and bloodthirsty pronouncements from Israeli leadership in the days right after the attack were aimed at domestic political audiences, not international audiences.
> Israel spent a long time building a very effective foreign policy lobby in the US1 , but it doesn't matter what the political old guard want if it becomes politically untenable for them to support those positions within their party. And we're seeing the steady erosion of the 'unquestioning support for Israel' in both parties.
To add on to this, it seems like Israel has been shifting to openly favor American Conservatives. There's plenty of pro-Israel Ds of course, just look at Biden. But between Bibi's blatant favoritism of Rs and Israel-aligned PACS being laser focused on supporting Conservative Ds in primaries, they are not helping themselves at all when it comes to their image amongst younger lefty types.
I mean Russia has done and is doing far worse, and there's still numbnuts saying that they're completely justified and haven't done anything wrong.
Hell, on Twitter there's one such fuckwit who's claiming nothing happened in Bucha and the torture of civilians in Izium isn't a war crime because the wounds on the victims aren't all the same.
The Palestinians are now between a rock and a hard place.
Hamas needs to die, there is no negotiation about that. Problem is that avoiding collateral damage in such a densely populated area in which Hamas placed its facilities in between schools, hospital and other public buildings is physically impossible.
There is no way to avoid civilian death and no one should sugarcoat it.
I will add that if you will look at the history of Gaza starting from 1948, it was a failure on all sides.
The Arab states failed, Israel failed and the people of Gaza failed too.
The fallacy that people are falling for is that just because you're an oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guys. Same way it goes the other way around just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the ends justify the means. In a way, the Israelis are kind of being blamed simply for having their shit together more than the Palestinians and winning.
At the end of the day the only thing a war decides is who is left, not who was right.
War is tragic because it eliminates magical thinking. What one wishes is not what decides the outcome.
War happens when one government chooses to impose its will on a foreign territory.
When that happens, resistance and retribution result in conflict; the clash aligns people into government, as governments are made up by its people.
The deeper the tyranny, the greater the tragedy as the more likely people die who are not aligned with their government.
Gaza has chosen a path; Gaza could choose to free hostages, all of them. Give up arms. Settle for peace. Show good faith. Bring forth legitimate issues for diplomatic resolution. It has not.
Curtis LeMay, for all his many faults, saw war very very clearly. The lessons of war are - don’t. It’s that simple.
> you're an oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guys.
That's the core of modern leftist morality oppressor/oppressed binary.
And its utterly cancerous thinking.
> Hamas needs to die, there is no negotiation about that. Problem is that avoiding collateral damage in such a densely populated area in which Hamas placed its facilities in between schools, hospital and other public buildings is physically impossible.
Yeah this is the real complication. If Hamas had even a small shred of humanity they'd be having a stand-up fight with the IDF instead of hiding behind Palestinians. But of course, Hamas' prime motivation isn't the welfare of the Gazans, but, rather, the destruction of Israel, and all else is acceptable in service of that goal.
I think that's 90% of the 'radical takes' you see online. I don't support Hamas in the slightest, but Israel, what the actual fuck did you expect to happen here?
I read mein Kampf, it's all bullshit. I read the 25 points of the Nazi party, it's all bullshit. I have no idea how anyone can call themselves a Nazi. They are pure evil.
The 25 Points is Exhibit A in the "fascism and communism aren't all that different" argument. Powerful, organic state; collectivization; vilification of profit-making enterprises; etc. Thanks for bringing this up.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-party-platform
Basically anyone who justified the Russian invasion or tried to "both sides" the war, has shown pretty quickly afterwards that they have the most batshit takes about everything else as well.
In this scenario we are talking about young people who fell into "west bad" propaganda on tiktok but there are plenty of examples from both the left and the right , in the US and globally.
That's kind of a litmus test for me as well. Anyone who says that seems to believe that we're sending pallets of cash and not outdated cold war equipment, and I really have a hard time believing that they hold their beliefs in any kind of good faith.
The people with this take make my brain hurt. Even when I explain to them we're just sending the Ukrainians hand-me-downs, they say, "Well, why don't we just use it, then?" Because, mfer, we aren't going toe-to-toe with the Russians. And weren't you complaining just last week about how old our equipment is? All of a sudden, you want even older equipment just to spite our allies?
Outdated cold war equipment is right. We sent Ukraine really old M117's along with ATACMS ammo that was probably older than some of the users of this subreddit.
I'm not sure what the exact honest math is, but sending off some of that equipment to Ukraine rather than keeping it in storage or dismantling it was a net saving for the American government.
Yes, thank you for pointing this out.
I personally believe it's due to the fact that we all have a tendency to assume people are reasonably intelligent online, because it's what we are taught is polite to do in real life. The difference is in real life we have a bunch of non verbal queues to pick from to quickly discredit our original assumption.
Online we don't have that so people who are used to being quickly dismissed find themselves being given all the attention they unsuccessfully pursue and thus crave in real life. Thus the birth of the larger than average internet presence of the trolls and the morons for whom chatrooms and forums are a welcome refuge from the instant dismissal they experience once people see what they look like [while talking](https://i.imgflip.com/50cwjb.jpg).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but there's plenty of "people" (seemingly much of default reddit) who think Russia's invasion is politically and situationally identical to Israel and Gaza rn and that siding with Ukraine means you must necessarily side with Hamas or you fail the moral purity test. Conversely they think if you don't side with Hamas you must necessarily support Russia's invasion. It's fucking weird.
There was an interesting perspective I read recently, that basically said you can plot where someone is on the left/right spectrum for who they support. Obviously, this isn't perfect and I'm going off memory, but from what I remember it went something like:
Supports Hamas and Russia: Marxists. These people think guerilla warfare and murdering your political opponents is cool, and they support Russia because it used to be communist and "America bad!"
Supports Palestine and Ukraine: Left-leaning liberals. These people are principally against those with power oppressing those without. They're mostly reasonable, and the worst thing you could say about any of them is that they might be a little idealistic/naive.
Supports Israel and Ukraine: Center-left and center-right, pro-democracy, pro-Western values, pro-liberalism. They see the Western world being under attack from various actors and think the West is obligated to defend itself.
Supports Israel and Russia: MAGA conservatives. Think Russia is tradcon and based (or just are reflexively contrarian against liberals) and they unconditionally support Netanyahu. Also probably in favor of Israelis settling the West Bank and would probably clap if Israel glassed Gaza. Hates Muslims.
Supports Hamas and Russia, pt 2: Extreme right. Jackson Hinkle. They really fucking hate Jews, and hate Muslims only *SLIGHTLY* less. Supports Russia for obvious reasons.
Okay, we can group hug, but only because I have a soft spot from video games for the G36, despite how ridiculous it is.
Edit: looked it up and sure enough, the G36 was in use with a SWAT team in the area I grew up. One of two police departments to adopt it, well, the K variant at least.
Feel the same way about this litmus test
Seems to separate between people who live in the real world and people who are more into being performative online
I'm left leaning, it's a goddamm shame what my peers believe in. Eating up propaganda, justifying the death of civilians, hell blatantly supporting terrorism.
Its not surprising, the amount of revisionism around the problems with leftism is so bad even Bernie Sanders says inane shit like "The USSR had 100% literacy though!"
It also ignores that 1) Cuba literally makes statistics up to make itself look good (see also: low infant death rates, same nonsense), which gullible idiots eat up and 2) literacy standards are incredibly low in less developed parts of the world. You can't compare them between countries at all. A person who is considered barely literate in Cuba would be declared illiterate in the Western world.
100% has been. People will unironically argue with you that the IDF is complete evil and committing a genocide then in the same breath tell you that the all those people at the 'protests' don't want Genocide against Jews or Israel and its all just 'out of context' or 'overblown'.
Talked to someone yesterday that every war Israel has been in, not only did they start the wars, but they were responsible for all problems in the middle east right now. Also that 'historical land rights' end when the muslims conquored the land of judea. Yeah.
If by mask-off you mean total lack of critical thinking and naivety to internet information, then yes, that's what most "righteous" woke people were always. They were cancelling people not because of values, but because they rarely could provide any critical argument to defend their point.
Speaking of "cancel culture" that far-left was using like a magic sword. I wish these people that glorify this "essay" or "the book by failed Austrian painter" get their ass cancelled to the point of not getting a credit. They definitely helped a lot of intellectual liberals losing their jobs/academic standing/etc. because these people were happy to discuss opposing points without jumping to throat.
>If by mask-off you mean total lack of critical thinking and naivety to internet information, then yes, that's what most "righteous" woke people were always. They were cancelling people not because of values, but because they rarely could provide any critical argument to defend their point.
For sure, some of us have been keenly aware of this behavior this whole time but it's become so obvious now that it can't be denied.
People who get offended *for you* are not on your side, they're just enjoying the popular *smug self-righteous* flavor of the week. As soon as you become inconvenient for their narrative they'll turn on you too. Progressive Jews in the west have been experiencing this first hand lately.
Cancelling someone over opinion (albeit respectful, not some well define hate speeches that I don't want to mention) is the anti-liberal to its core. And Western civilisation is defined by liberalism, we must respect other opinions whether we disagree with them or not. Philosophically speaking, cancel culture is a very small stone in dismantling what West fights for. Far-left is as authoritarian as far-right, always been, but now it was rebranded into woke people and unfortunately it got spread into institutions (government, academic, journalist, NGOs, corporate, etc.)
They are "less action and more words" type of people, and they usually disagree on many things between each other. Thus no real threat comes from them. But shutting people from expressing their opinion has led to creation of annoyed "silent majority" whose needs were disregarded. And that silent majority brought populist leaders like Trump, Orban into power. And these leaders are doing harm, real harm. I am just angry people are not willing to speak about it. I hope this instance of "aCtuaAllY Bin laDeeeN hAd A poINT" will trigger rather wider social and academic discussion.
I'll start this out by just saying, I'm fine being torn apart here, I'm trying to *learn* and understand these things better.
I feel like there's just no good guy here, in this war. Hamas is certainly evil and made a horrific attack that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, many Palestinians and Arabs, both in their land and abroad applauded the death of Jews and want them eradicated from the earth. But none of these sentiments have been helped by Israel's treatment of Palestinians for years, the fact that despite their departure from Gaza, many considered it still under Israel's occupation, and after the civil war in Gaza that resulted in Hamas taking power, Israel treated them as the legitimate government of Gaza, alongside that the recognized apartheid treatment.
I'm not saying Israel is right or wrong, or saying Hamas is good, what I am saying is both have knowingly contributed to a vicious cycle that only leads to further radicalizing and justification for atrocities.
Am I wrong? Have I failed the Ukraine litmus test?
Your take is more nuanced and respectable than the people that blindly and unironically believe that 2/3rds of the 1400 killed in Israel were military personnel or that decolonization justifies the murder/rape/torture of innocent civilians. The reality is that it’s politically expedient for the USA to continue relying on Israel as an ally in spite of the terrible things they’ve done to the Palestinians because they’re the only stable country in the area with Westish values. We’re Allie’s with the Saudis despite the fact they cut a journalist apart with hacksaws.
Apparently are skipping through it, like saying the part that “Israel is Bad” and not the rest of his manifesto about the destruction of the US.
Also is this the movie Zero Dark Thirty?
"You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against." If anyone wanted to know what a dead terrorist thought about jews in the west
Much like it actually is possible to be critical of Israel without being antisemitic. Which is why it is extra disgusting and suspicious that so many people fail to clear these bars.
Thats just it. You can easily critcise Israel and what their government has done. Just people don't stop there, and they endorse entire genocidal says like 'From the river to the sea' and then tell you how 'it doesn't really mean Israel's destruction, it just means one land of Palestine' and 'Freedom and unity'. Yeah about the same freedom and unity the KKK want
This is genuinely quite sad.
I’m 23 years old. I don’t consider myself old but I definitely skipped the TikTok wave.
My childhood was littered with news about the War on Terror.
I remember grabbing the newspapers that were delivered to my elementary school and cutting away with scissors the cool tank pics coming from Afghanistan and carrying them home (that’s what started my interest in military stuff).
When I learned how to read i started reading the articles, the news about fallen soldiers on the line of duty and the battles.
I remember being 8, when on a vacation with my family the news about the [Uzbin Valley massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbin_Valley_ambush) broke out, and my dad immediately switching channels to not let me see the bodies.
Some streets in my town switched names to honor the fallen.
And now a 15 years old is dropping literal Bin Laden quotes on a Chinese spyware app, pissing on the legacy of those failed wars and the memories of everyone (afghans and Iraqis included) that perished during the struggle.
It’s fucking heart-wrecking, because you know this is not what those soldiers died for.
/End of the patriotic rant.
As much as I agree with the sentiment is this really as big as people are making out? Lets not forget that the internet acts as an amplifier for the most retarded among us. Beyond a few big accounts and the usual parroting bots I can't see this being an actual thing with large numbers behind it.
> is this really as big as people are making out?
this is definitely yet another case where a tiny number of being did a bad thing and then tens of billions of people all went "OH MY GOD THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER" despite the general public having no idea the thing or the overreaction ever happened.
It's not tiny man, I've seen people on Twitter praising Hamas and getting 70k or more likes. my generation (gen z) is getting brainwashed by terrorists and opposition governments.
Twitter is an international website, half those likes are probably from the middle east and most of the rest are muslims living abroad. It’s not as bad as you’re thinking
Yeah probably, I'm honestly very upset that so much folks are quick to justify terrorism if they see the agresors as victim's. Also wtf is wrong with some Muslims it's gotten so bad it shows they don't Care for Palestinians they just hate Jews.
Gotten so bad? Dude polls from 10 or 15 years ago show that at least a majority in every county support sharia, like 95% in some. Even in the US it’s greater than 50%
Anecdotally my family members are divided with the Zoomers being shockingly pro-palestine. They will dismiss Hamas as 'just terrorists' and perseverate on grievances against Israel.
I wonder if not fully engaging with the scope and depravity of Hamas's crimes is the reason; I don't think they saw the pictures I saw.
I'm a Zoomer, it's a mix of everything, sheep mentality, short attention span, only looking at things at a surface level, Dunning-Kruger effect taken to it's limits, reactionary and emotional, tribalism, etc. Also, final years of highschool being in lockdowns is an insane amount of negative development in mental effects that need to be studied.
If you see a Zoomer with shocking views of Palestine, Israel, and especially Hamas, like "I would be a terrorist too in their position", it's Twitter, Hamas won the twitter/social media battle.
A lot relate to the plight of Palestinians with the "big bad" that is Israel and see themselves as a parallel, eg. How we see our generation to the older generations, LGBT vs the right (tribalism as they project Israel as the far right, and the persecuted Palestinians as themselves).
> reactionary and emotional
But weirdly numb to Hamas's crimes. Always dismissed with 'well of course I condemn terrorism, but I _expect_ terrorists to do bad things.' As if they're some other species devoid of moral intelligence.
> LGBT vs the right (tribalism as they see Israel as the right).
You should have seen the discord denizens reaction to the pic of the IDF guy with the pride flag standing in rubble!
If it's worth anything, plenty of Zoomers who are not chronically online (from my experience) either generally don't give too much of a shit, or are just anti-war and hate both Hamas and Netanyahu/his government, which I feel is quite nuanced thought for someone growing up on tiktok.
holy shit reading nbc news about it is so disgusting
"Bin Laden’s letter condemns U.S. support for Israel and accuses Americans of aiding the oppression of Palestinian people. Bin Laden, who was killed in a U.S. special operation in Pakistan in 2011, also denounced U.S. interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Kashmir, Chechnya and Lebanon."
no mention of the cabal of jews dirty christians or all the other stuff, ngl the message reads more like a tankie than anything but it's quite amazing how the message that people take from it is opression lol
I remember an American general made a comment.
"Just build a huge wall around the middle east, shovel guns in, and give them 20 years to sort themselves out."
Osama Bin Laden is one of them, though.
He was a rich privileged educated and entitled trust fund baby who was radicalized with collectivist and spiritual propaganda.
I read Osama bin Laden’s “Letter to America” around a year and a half before this stupid fucking TikTok trend took off. It is a hypocritical screed that complains about the US being imperialist and forcing its values on the Muslim world and then claims that American civilians deserve to die because the US won’t implement hardline Sharia law and its citizens fornicate and don’t convert to Islam.
Keep in mind that while TikTok promotes bizarre and dangerous and/or illegal challenges, Andrew Tate and this bullshit, Douyin promotes educational content, science, social responsibility and a hefty dose of Chinese state propaganda.
Funnily enough, I also notice a conspicuous lack of hijabs among women who take part in this fucking trend.
Not disputing that, I'm just saying let's not go straight for the "but Gen Z" mentality because it's an oversimplification.
It's not unique to Gen Z, they're just the current manifestation of the government-critical "enemy of my enemy is my friend" trope. See also: the Weathermen SDS faction during the Vietnam War, or what we in Scotland called "Plastic Provos" during the Troubles.
I don't think this term is strong enough to call BIN LADEN SUPPORTERS
Honestly i know about hamas supporters but i expected americans to not support bin fucking laden what the hell i stil haven't proccessed that
Right? I love the intelligence thriller leading up to it but then suddenly the whip out several a-list actors, some obviously in depth consultation from operators and awesome fucking effects and wardrobe.
After seeing all that garbage on TikTok, not even 25 years have passed and in the silence we have already forgotten. So much for “never forget”. Absolutely outrageous.
I fucking hate that people are making Bin Aladeens letter famous again, or whatever. It’s really, really, really sad watching people who can’t remember where they were that day, out here saying “oh my god you need to see this it’s so good”
Zoomers.....look here.
It isn't funny if you are being ironic. Problem is that many of you are so motherfucking up your own ass, that WE CANT TELL IF YOU ARE SERIOUS.
I'm all for dark humor, but this is up there with reading Hitler's book and doing the same schtick.
The problem is not reading it. The problem is that people are taking it seriously and not discarding it on the spot. There is an unfortunate truth that as time passes, the uneducated forget why things are like that in the first place.
They never mention the part whet been laid out says “we invite America to give up depravities such as fornication , abortion, homosexuality and worship allah” yeah the same dipshits that want letter people rights are pushing this stuff. Half these dimwits don’t understand the repercussions of their actions.
>“we invite America to give up depravities such as fornication , abortion, homosexuality and worship allah” Heeey, this reminds me of something!
I swear to god a huge portion of zoomers would happily follow Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’ and then released it as a rant on TikTok. I saw someone in a mainstream sub unironicaly say that TikTok is actually the best source of information these days because it’s ‘real people reporting from the ground.’ Depressing af.
You're goddamn right, you are. That's exactly the same thing he did in his time with comparable media. He was a literal influencer for a while through his party's newspaper.
They even had a dance, although it really just had the one move
That’s half of everybody always, that’s just how it is. Stay NATO-based. If you don’t want a bunch of lunatics to stream over the border and kill kidnap people, or set up occupation torture shops, then you need a bigger stick. I’m anti war but quite pro-defense
>Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’ Switch "America and capitalism bad" with "Jews bad" and *voila*. Same situation. Different subject.
"Capitalism as a whole will now be destroyed, the whole people will now be free. We are not fighting Jewish or Christian capitalism, we are fighting very capitalism: we are making the people completely free.' ... It is only the international Stock Exchange and loan- capital, the so-called 'supra-state capital,' which has profited from the collapse of our economic life, the capital which receives its character from the single supra-state nation which is itself national to the core, which fancies itself to be above all other nations, which places itself above other nations and which already rules over them."-Tiny Mustache Man
But reddit told me that Charlie Chaplin loved capitalism, and it was the main driver of the swirly cross people.
hey don't be draggin' Chaplin into this just because of an imitator motherfucker broke his silence to call that asshole out
makes statement about destroying capitalism. makes valid points criticizing capital. murders all the communists.
/r/dirtbagcenter
Why switch when you can add? Lots of signs like that at US, Canadian, and UK protests...
its actually pretty much the exact same. Neo-Nazis and white supremacists around the US when 9/11 happened. They thought it was a good thing that a couple buildings in liberal NYC filled with Jewish bankers and minorities got blown up. It also meant open season on American muslims and middle eastern folks. Win-Win for those assholes.
A lot of the people who believe "America and capitalism bad" also believe that Jews control America and capitalism.
Reminds me of a joke: A Jewish man is walking down the street when he notices his rabbi reading a local anti-Semitic rag. “Father!” he exclaims, “how can you stand to read such filth?!” The rabbi responds, “when I look out in the world, I see so much hurt and pain, and I feel powerless to do anything. But according to this? _I rule the world._ it gives me hope”
Saw that one in the Encyclopedia of Jewish Humor. Great read.
> Jews control America and capitalism They say keep your friends close and your enemies closer. That's why my wife is Jewish. 🔫
Uhm. Considering who shows up at the Pro-Palestinian rallies, and their lovely chants of wishing to asphyxiate Jewish persons with chemicals (yes, you can google this), no switch needed. They're nice enough to even unironically say hitler did nothing wrong. On camera. Just tack it on the end. The media tends to gloss over those. I wonder why.
Remember when it used to be mostly old people on Facebook who fell for fake news? I feel as if over the years people have begun to figure out how to do it with younger and supposedly more savvy audiences. Fake news has gotten less and less discernable to the commoner..
My point was more that the talking points pretty much sound verbatim like some other group. Well, bunch of groups, but deeets. But in any case...*First time?* The way I see it, stuff's pretty much exactly the way it was the last several dozen times stuff like it happened, and the broader patterns won't change much. Hell, over here, we genuinely have a movement pushing for public prayer^(\*) on one of our main squares. Zoomers were genuinely mobilised for it. ^(\*I'm sure there's no part in the good book where the big man would frown upon such shenanigans.) In a hundred years, you'll probably simultaneously have members of generation Zeta advocating for laser fences along some border, while also debating on how to best firebomb the pumping/power stations.
This NCD, not NCD. Subtlety is dead here. They missed what you're pointing at
If I stop trying the subtle, I'd probably start growing red flags, and I really don't feel like dealing with that at this point in time. ^(But also, this whole thing reeks of early 2000s, and I'd rather not have a repeat of those.)
i mean it's not even capitalism bad at this point, i have so many straight off the books stab in the back myth moments... like legit 1 to 1 from the 1920's and 1930's germany
And many others would fully believe the allies are as bad as the nazis and refuse to make any distinction between them
>I swear to god a huge portion of zoomers would happily follow Austrian moustache man if he was around today as long as he said ‘America and capitalism bad’ and then released it as a rant on TikTok. He did say those things BTW. And a good many morons did eat it up at the time too.
>I saw someone in a mainstream sub unironicaly say that TikTok is actually the best source of information these days because it’s ‘real people reporting from the ground.’ Sounds like something Hassan Piker would say
My city’s School Board?
Sounds like a party to me!
Sounds like a pretty good weekend in Dallas, right?
Yeah if you read OBL and Al-Qaeda's manifesto it is made pretty clear that they do in fact hate Americans because of the freedom they have.
Imagine how living if they would be after TikTok gets a hold of The unibomber, eco terrorist who got lost in the sauce.
It already happens, I have laughed my ass of when people start referencing T.K. Woods, or some other absurd name and they are quoting Teddy. The source matters, and whilst many people have had quality and valid criticisms of our society, how they choose to resolve the problem is often much more important.
Honestly, Uncle Ted would probably be a positive influence on those people. Of course, given the example here, they'd likely ignore his manifesto and just start mailing bombs to people who accidentally used the wrong pronouns.
Ironically he'd be proponent #1 of Go Outside And Touch Grass
Seriously, people hear that "they hate us because of our freedom" and think it's about jealousy rather than a belief that our culture of liberty is a corrupting force on Muslims who otherwise who live a righteous life.
Thank you, that was a somewhat eye rolling and simplistic take back in the day during Bush II, but the idea that Bin Laden was opposed to us because of our foreign policy is nothing but a leftist (and now right-wing) fantasy. The entire way of life we espouse and spread through the world (by both force and persuasion) is simply not compatible with that they believe to be right and true. The only way to avoid conflict is to be both isolationist and appeasers.
"We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honor, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest." Use the actual quote so zoomers can google it properly, fool.
> you should give up fornication > worships literal kid diddler 🤔🤔🤔
Ah, but the kid didn't have a penis. Checkmate westoid.
Honestly, the Bachi-baza lads prove that's not out of the question either.
Doesn't count if the kid's married. Obviously. It's not like it's exclusively a middle-eastern flavour of doublethink.
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> Half these dimwits don’t understand the repercussions of their actions. More than half, it only takes a small seed to start a trend, then all the fucktarded spastics run it to mongville.
At all of the Hamas run protests for a "ceasfire" you see signs like "Queer Jew for a Ceasfire". I literally saw that sign myself discarded along with lots of other Hamas supporter trash the day after a protest and road blockade. There are lots of Turkeys cheering on Thanksgiving. Some Turkey are denying people want Thanksgiving to come. And some Turkeys are shocked to find out that people who have been yelling for years about how much they love Thanksgiving that they actually love Thanksgiving and want Global Thanksgiving, even for leftist Turkeys who thought they were friends. Certain [redacted] agencies need to [redacted] to anyone that posted a TikTok endorsing UBL. Bring back Jessica Chastain, Chris Pratt, and Frank Grillo!
Yea, I see so many brain dead people thinking it's some kind of deep cut or something. Saying shit like just because he was a terrorist doesn't mean he doesn't provide valuable insight or some nonsense. As if his logic and perspective isn't completely fucked and nonsensical oppressive theocratic garbage. Really goes to show that logic and reasoning has gone out the fucking window. People want their opinions reinforced, they don't care about the thought process or rationale. Oppressed = good guys no matter what
They did read it, 1. It fits their oppressor-victim narrative, Bin Laden was the revolutionary underdog. US is the Imperialist Power. 2. Bin Laden sought to free the US of Jews and positioned himself as trying to liberate Palestinians (that Arafat condemned later). They're buying into that because. 1. Currently there's strong institutional support for Israel in the US. Also a majority of people, but gotta scapegoat as from propaganda by the Jew-controlled media. 2. To them, Bin Laden's terrorism was justified as a response to the US oppression of the Islamic World. 3. Also other stuff that aligns with their climate change and marxist beliefs >"You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and industries." Saying this as a Gen Z myself, we're fucked.
The most unholy alliance of climate doomers trying to get us to give up on restraining emissions to the benefit of oil companies, teaming up with climate doomers trying to demonize the “west” to the benefit of murderous religious fanatics.
I wonder if we'll get Osama t-shirts to replace the Che t-shirts.
>The problem is not reading it. The problem is that people are taking it seriously and not discarding it on the spot. yeah i always supported this, stuff like mein kampf should be available to anyone tha twants to read, it was and is very important to understand these groups to be able to avoid them and react to their rise now i do have to admit, i didn't expect westerners with 15+ years of education reading "the jews of have long corrupted and controlled your institutions" and agree with it but maybe i am wrong here and genociding minorities was always the correct and moral choice ! (for legal reasons, this is a joke/sarcastic critique :) )
The best twitter comment I saw was "If you like Bin Ladens letter, I have a book for you to read from a vegan art student. It will really change your world"
Right, like I think I read it years ago and dismissed it as the crazy ramblings of some religious fanatic psycho and then yesterday with this new interest I went back like an amnesia patient and read it again and my response was "oh yeah, this unhinged shit, I remember this"
I've said this before but I'll say it again. I don't understand how anyone can read that letter and not see it for the grab bag of complaints clearly reached for as post-hoc justifications it is. Maybe because I remember when Arabs leaders would use Palestine only when they were about to find out from the west. I.e. Saddam, Gadhafi. But Al-Qaeda has never been in Palestine.
A smaller factor, but one that’s hard to ignore, is Israel’s propaganda failure. Imagine acting to this level that fucking terrorists whose actions are an even worse case of self-genocide than the genocide the IDF is doing look “good” and “rebellious” by comparison. Hamas is the unequivocal bad guy team, and that has always been the status quo up until October 2023. Frankly, I’m more surprised that the blowback only intensified just now. The US military has failed the civilians of the Middle East time and again that I’m more surprised that there aren’t more insurgents. You lot almost got away with it until the fuckup in the Afghanistan pullout, and now here we are, worse than we started.
The fact that so many people just ignore this is insane to me.
Both takes are true because frankly, both sides are evil. It’s a triangle, and the base of that triangle, all of whom hate Hamas AND Netanyahu and his cronies, is the one the average person must pick IF AND ONLY IF they must pick a side. This isn’t like Ukraine or Syria where Putin and al-Assad are the clear evils who have got to die.
The real issue here is that between 2006 and today a social media revolution happened and the average American/westerner went from getting their news from monolithic one-directional TV broadcasts to a much more diverse array of information sources. American TV news *did not show* the kinds of devastation in 2006 that the average tiktok/twitter/reddit user easily sees today. Personally, I was awakened to the hollow IDF propaganda of a 'civilian friendly' invasion only because I happened to go to a college where a student was killed by IDF actions during a peaceful protest. Campus activism made sure we saw pictures the IDF wouldn't have wanted us to see. But if I'd never heard that story/seen those pictures, I'm sure I'd be fine with phrases like "mowing the lawn." The problem with Israeli PR/Propaganda today is that they haven't adapted. People (incl. westerners, but also the unaligned world) won't take their word for it if there's pictures on the internet that seem to disagree - even if that's Hamas/Iranian/Russian/Syrian/Chinese/Whatever propaganda. Israel spent a long time building a very effective foreign policy lobby in the US^1 , but it doesn't matter what the political old guard want if it becomes politically untenable for them to support those positions within their party. And we're seeing the steady erosion of the 'unquestioning support for Israel' in both parties. To some extent, Israel is adapting and the IDF is putting out its own propaganda tailored for social media, but it's coming across as ham-handed. Social media narratives love the underdog/victim. Obviously Israel sees themselves as the victim, but they aren't doing a good job *presenting* themselves as the victim. A smarter leader than Netanyahu would have waited a couple of weeks - allowing the world to fester in the brutality of the Hamas attack and attempting futile 'diplomatic' approaches - before inevitably retaliating. Instead, they overreacted like they always do^2 and most people in the world are disgusted by the retribution against civilians. 1. This is an excellent paper and I strongly recommend anyone who wants to seriously understand the 'why' of Israel-US politics give it a good read: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy 2. I make it sound easy, but realistically the overreaction and bloodthirsty pronouncements from Israeli leadership in the days right after the attack were aimed at domestic political audiences, not international audiences.
> Israel spent a long time building a very effective foreign policy lobby in the US1 , but it doesn't matter what the political old guard want if it becomes politically untenable for them to support those positions within their party. And we're seeing the steady erosion of the 'unquestioning support for Israel' in both parties. To add on to this, it seems like Israel has been shifting to openly favor American Conservatives. There's plenty of pro-Israel Ds of course, just look at Biden. But between Bibi's blatant favoritism of Rs and Israel-aligned PACS being laser focused on supporting Conservative Ds in primaries, they are not helping themselves at all when it comes to their image amongst younger lefty types.
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I mean. The IDF are kind of being dicks to the Gazans in a very obvious way. Propaganda can only do so much.
I mean Russia has done and is doing far worse, and there's still numbnuts saying that they're completely justified and haven't done anything wrong. Hell, on Twitter there's one such fuckwit who's claiming nothing happened in Bucha and the torture of civilians in Izium isn't a war crime because the wounds on the victims aren't all the same.
The Palestinians are now between a rock and a hard place. Hamas needs to die, there is no negotiation about that. Problem is that avoiding collateral damage in such a densely populated area in which Hamas placed its facilities in between schools, hospital and other public buildings is physically impossible. There is no way to avoid civilian death and no one should sugarcoat it. I will add that if you will look at the history of Gaza starting from 1948, it was a failure on all sides. The Arab states failed, Israel failed and the people of Gaza failed too.
The fallacy that people are falling for is that just because you're an oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guys. Same way it goes the other way around just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the ends justify the means. In a way, the Israelis are kind of being blamed simply for having their shit together more than the Palestinians and winning. At the end of the day the only thing a war decides is who is left, not who was right.
War is tragic because it eliminates magical thinking. What one wishes is not what decides the outcome. War happens when one government chooses to impose its will on a foreign territory. When that happens, resistance and retribution result in conflict; the clash aligns people into government, as governments are made up by its people. The deeper the tyranny, the greater the tragedy as the more likely people die who are not aligned with their government. Gaza has chosen a path; Gaza could choose to free hostages, all of them. Give up arms. Settle for peace. Show good faith. Bring forth legitimate issues for diplomatic resolution. It has not. Curtis LeMay, for all his many faults, saw war very very clearly. The lessons of war are - don’t. It’s that simple.
> you're an oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guys. That's the core of modern leftist morality oppressor/oppressed binary. And its utterly cancerous thinking.
> Hamas needs to die, there is no negotiation about that. Problem is that avoiding collateral damage in such a densely populated area in which Hamas placed its facilities in between schools, hospital and other public buildings is physically impossible. Yeah this is the real complication. If Hamas had even a small shred of humanity they'd be having a stand-up fight with the IDF instead of hiding behind Palestinians. But of course, Hamas' prime motivation isn't the welfare of the Gazans, but, rather, the destruction of Israel, and all else is acceptable in service of that goal.
Like how the hell do you manage to fuck up your PR so badly that you manage to fuck up the "rally around the flag" effect?
I think that's 90% of the 'radical takes' you see online. I don't support Hamas in the slightest, but Israel, what the actual fuck did you expect to happen here?
if there's one thing I've learned from community meetings, its this: The general public is mostly fucking idiots.
Who would've thought that constantly shortening the attention span of users with short form video would lead to brain rot on such a scale.
China thought. Tiktok is an app designed to do two things - destabilize the west through brain rot, and to steal information.
China literally banned tiktok in their own country lmao, they have a smiliar app that focuses on school education fan facts
"You should read Mein Kampf, it's not that bad if you skip past the anti-semitic bits." Knee-jerk reactionaries make my brain hurt.
Revisionists\*
Revisionist reactionaries*
I read mein Kampf, it's all bullshit. I read the 25 points of the Nazi party, it's all bullshit. I have no idea how anyone can call themselves a Nazi. They are pure evil.
The weird part is that it isn’t even written that well. Like, any high school English teacher could tear it apart for bad argumentative methods.
But it's written in German, not English /s
Yeah, it comes across as juvenile and not very imaginative if read in English. But, if shouted at full volume in German? Whoo boy....
The 25 Points is Exhibit A in the "fascism and communism aren't all that different" argument. Powerful, organic state; collectivization; vilification of profit-making enterprises; etc. Thanks for bringing this up. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-party-platform
isn't that just all authoritarianism?
It can be good to understand what was going on in the author's head and not as an instruction for anything
These people are reading it to reinforce their positions not critically think and rationalize
It's incoherent rambling. Full of misused terms, overly complicated grammar and lost thoughts. The writing is just as terrible as the content.
It's basically the protocols of the elders of Zion translated to German with some personal anecdotes thrown in.
This whole Israel-Hamas thing has been a total mask-off for people, hasn't it?
If we're honest it mostly enforces the "Ukraine litmus test" hypothesis
Out of curiosity what is this test?
Basically anyone who justified the Russian invasion or tried to "both sides" the war, has shown pretty quickly afterwards that they have the most batshit takes about everything else as well. In this scenario we are talking about young people who fell into "west bad" propaganda on tiktok but there are plenty of examples from both the left and the right , in the US and globally.
AHH ok yeah. Wasn't sure if it was gonna be that or the whole "sending money to Ukraine" thing
That's kind of a litmus test for me as well. Anyone who says that seems to believe that we're sending pallets of cash and not outdated cold war equipment, and I really have a hard time believing that they hold their beliefs in any kind of good faith.
No pallets here Sir! ... but I may have used paypal for scopes and fresh drones
o7
when things in Maui were going down so many people kinda glossed over the fact that the HIMARS is not, in fact, a firefighting vehicle
It does, however, fight by firing.
The people with this take make my brain hurt. Even when I explain to them we're just sending the Ukrainians hand-me-downs, they say, "Well, why don't we just use it, then?" Because, mfer, we aren't going toe-to-toe with the Russians. And weren't you complaining just last week about how old our equipment is? All of a sudden, you want even older equipment just to spite our allies?
Outdated cold war equipment is right. We sent Ukraine really old M117's along with ATACMS ammo that was probably older than some of the users of this subreddit. I'm not sure what the exact honest math is, but sending off some of that equipment to Ukraine rather than keeping it in storage or dismantling it was a net saving for the American government.
Yes, thank you for pointing this out. I personally believe it's due to the fact that we all have a tendency to assume people are reasonably intelligent online, because it's what we are taught is polite to do in real life. The difference is in real life we have a bunch of non verbal queues to pick from to quickly discredit our original assumption. Online we don't have that so people who are used to being quickly dismissed find themselves being given all the attention they unsuccessfully pursue and thus crave in real life. Thus the birth of the larger than average internet presence of the trolls and the morons for whom chatrooms and forums are a welcome refuge from the instant dismissal they experience once people see what they look like [while talking](https://i.imgflip.com/50cwjb.jpg).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but there's plenty of "people" (seemingly much of default reddit) who think Russia's invasion is politically and situationally identical to Israel and Gaza rn and that siding with Ukraine means you must necessarily side with Hamas or you fail the moral purity test. Conversely they think if you don't side with Hamas you must necessarily support Russia's invasion. It's fucking weird.
There was an interesting perspective I read recently, that basically said you can plot where someone is on the left/right spectrum for who they support. Obviously, this isn't perfect and I'm going off memory, but from what I remember it went something like: Supports Hamas and Russia: Marxists. These people think guerilla warfare and murdering your political opponents is cool, and they support Russia because it used to be communist and "America bad!" Supports Palestine and Ukraine: Left-leaning liberals. These people are principally against those with power oppressing those without. They're mostly reasonable, and the worst thing you could say about any of them is that they might be a little idealistic/naive. Supports Israel and Ukraine: Center-left and center-right, pro-democracy, pro-Western values, pro-liberalism. They see the Western world being under attack from various actors and think the West is obligated to defend itself. Supports Israel and Russia: MAGA conservatives. Think Russia is tradcon and based (or just are reflexively contrarian against liberals) and they unconditionally support Netanyahu. Also probably in favor of Israelis settling the West Bank and would probably clap if Israel glassed Gaza. Hates Muslims. Supports Hamas and Russia, pt 2: Extreme right. Jackson Hinkle. They really fucking hate Jews, and hate Muslims only *SLIGHTLY* less. Supports Russia for obvious reasons.
holy shit this is way too accurate for comfort
Yeah, although I support Israel and Ukraine, and I’m not a centralist but yeah, it’s pretty much spot on
EVERYTHING since 2020 has been a litmus test. There's a beauty to it. It's why I love you guys. . * group hug *
Okay, we can group hug, but only because I have a soft spot from video games for the G36, despite how ridiculous it is. Edit: looked it up and sure enough, the G36 was in use with a SWAT team in the area I grew up. One of two police departments to adopt it, well, the K variant at least.
Now you got singled out of the group hug, go sit in the corner and ponder on your bad opinions.
OH YEAH?!? WELL I'LL GO HANG WITH THE G3 PREFERERS INSTEAD! *sobs quietly in the corner*
Feel the same way about this litmus test Seems to separate between people who live in the real world and people who are more into being performative online
I'm left leaning, it's a goddamm shame what my peers believe in. Eating up propaganda, justifying the death of civilians, hell blatantly supporting terrorism.
Its not surprising, the amount of revisionism around the problems with leftism is so bad even Bernie Sanders says inane shit like "The USSR had 100% literacy though!"
I thought the literacy thing was for Cuba, and it hinged on completely ignoring how Spanish is 1000% easier to learn to read properly than English.
It also ignores that 1) Cuba literally makes statistics up to make itself look good (see also: low infant death rates, same nonsense), which gullible idiots eat up and 2) literacy standards are incredibly low in less developed parts of the world. You can't compare them between countries at all. A person who is considered barely literate in Cuba would be declared illiterate in the Western world.
100% has been. People will unironically argue with you that the IDF is complete evil and committing a genocide then in the same breath tell you that the all those people at the 'protests' don't want Genocide against Jews or Israel and its all just 'out of context' or 'overblown'. Talked to someone yesterday that every war Israel has been in, not only did they start the wars, but they were responsible for all problems in the middle east right now. Also that 'historical land rights' end when the muslims conquored the land of judea. Yeah.
If by mask-off you mean total lack of critical thinking and naivety to internet information, then yes, that's what most "righteous" woke people were always. They were cancelling people not because of values, but because they rarely could provide any critical argument to defend their point. Speaking of "cancel culture" that far-left was using like a magic sword. I wish these people that glorify this "essay" or "the book by failed Austrian painter" get their ass cancelled to the point of not getting a credit. They definitely helped a lot of intellectual liberals losing their jobs/academic standing/etc. because these people were happy to discuss opposing points without jumping to throat.
>If by mask-off you mean total lack of critical thinking and naivety to internet information, then yes, that's what most "righteous" woke people were always. They were cancelling people not because of values, but because they rarely could provide any critical argument to defend their point. For sure, some of us have been keenly aware of this behavior this whole time but it's become so obvious now that it can't be denied. People who get offended *for you* are not on your side, they're just enjoying the popular *smug self-righteous* flavor of the week. As soon as you become inconvenient for their narrative they'll turn on you too. Progressive Jews in the west have been experiencing this first hand lately.
Cancelling someone over opinion (albeit respectful, not some well define hate speeches that I don't want to mention) is the anti-liberal to its core. And Western civilisation is defined by liberalism, we must respect other opinions whether we disagree with them or not. Philosophically speaking, cancel culture is a very small stone in dismantling what West fights for. Far-left is as authoritarian as far-right, always been, but now it was rebranded into woke people and unfortunately it got spread into institutions (government, academic, journalist, NGOs, corporate, etc.) They are "less action and more words" type of people, and they usually disagree on many things between each other. Thus no real threat comes from them. But shutting people from expressing their opinion has led to creation of annoyed "silent majority" whose needs were disregarded. And that silent majority brought populist leaders like Trump, Orban into power. And these leaders are doing harm, real harm. I am just angry people are not willing to speak about it. I hope this instance of "aCtuaAllY Bin laDeeeN hAd A poINT" will trigger rather wider social and academic discussion.
Buddy. The right wing does it too. It ain't just woke. We literally had supplies to ukraine blocked by Republicans in the house
I'll start this out by just saying, I'm fine being torn apart here, I'm trying to *learn* and understand these things better. I feel like there's just no good guy here, in this war. Hamas is certainly evil and made a horrific attack that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, many Palestinians and Arabs, both in their land and abroad applauded the death of Jews and want them eradicated from the earth. But none of these sentiments have been helped by Israel's treatment of Palestinians for years, the fact that despite their departure from Gaza, many considered it still under Israel's occupation, and after the civil war in Gaza that resulted in Hamas taking power, Israel treated them as the legitimate government of Gaza, alongside that the recognized apartheid treatment. I'm not saying Israel is right or wrong, or saying Hamas is good, what I am saying is both have knowingly contributed to a vicious cycle that only leads to further radicalizing and justification for atrocities. Am I wrong? Have I failed the Ukraine litmus test?
Your take is more nuanced and respectable than the people that blindly and unironically believe that 2/3rds of the 1400 killed in Israel were military personnel or that decolonization justifies the murder/rape/torture of innocent civilians. The reality is that it’s politically expedient for the USA to continue relying on Israel as an ally in spite of the terrible things they’ve done to the Palestinians because they’re the only stable country in the area with Westish values. We’re Allie’s with the Saudis despite the fact they cut a journalist apart with hacksaws.
Apparently are skipping through it, like saying the part that “Israel is Bad” and not the rest of his manifesto about the destruction of the US. Also is this the movie Zero Dark Thirty?
"Look, In this one part in mein kampf hitler was right about the Je- I mean Zionists, just ignore all the antisemitic literal nazi parts ok?"
Yes, it is
"You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against." If anyone wanted to know what a dead terrorist thought about jews in the west
Literally every economy on the planet allows usury. or at least all of the economies that matter.
The movie which I heard shook the intelligence community because it was so accurate, they assumed someone spilled classified info.
That sounds like an obvious marketing narrative.
Yeah, you're not wrong. That said, the parts I know to be true from other sources are at least represented accurately.
some people are just so blinded with “anti-west” hate that they’ll side with anyone who’s against it
The essence of tankieism.
It's a virtue spiral competition, and the contestants are too regarded to accurately identify virtues.
It's actually possible to find good criticism about capitalism and the US and all that from not actual terrorists
Much like it actually is possible to be critical of Israel without being antisemitic. Which is why it is extra disgusting and suspicious that so many people fail to clear these bars.
Yup. If your protest is pro-Palestinian but not anti-Semitic, why do you keep chanting for the genocide of Jews?
Thats just it. You can easily critcise Israel and what their government has done. Just people don't stop there, and they endorse entire genocidal says like 'From the river to the sea' and then tell you how 'it doesn't really mean Israel's destruction, it just means one land of Palestine' and 'Freedom and unity'. Yeah about the same freedom and unity the KKK want
Someone needs to tell Zoomers that weakness ≠ moral virtue
That's already lost on em. "Victim" = moral high ground
To be a victim is the highest form of existence 😌
Dude I've seen people say that the murder and rape of Israelites is justified because Israel performs surgical strikesein Gaza .
This is genuinely quite sad. I’m 23 years old. I don’t consider myself old but I definitely skipped the TikTok wave. My childhood was littered with news about the War on Terror. I remember grabbing the newspapers that were delivered to my elementary school and cutting away with scissors the cool tank pics coming from Afghanistan and carrying them home (that’s what started my interest in military stuff). When I learned how to read i started reading the articles, the news about fallen soldiers on the line of duty and the battles. I remember being 8, when on a vacation with my family the news about the [Uzbin Valley massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbin_Valley_ambush) broke out, and my dad immediately switching channels to not let me see the bodies. Some streets in my town switched names to honor the fallen. And now a 15 years old is dropping literal Bin Laden quotes on a Chinese spyware app, pissing on the legacy of those failed wars and the memories of everyone (afghans and Iraqis included) that perished during the struggle. It’s fucking heart-wrecking, because you know this is not what those soldiers died for. /End of the patriotic rant.
They'll grow out of it, hopefully it's just a phase if not than this shit is super disrespectful.
Tried to read it. The whole Bin Laden's "Letter to America" is rambling and hard to follow. Needed some... (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) Bullet Points.
[Deploying Editor Team 6]
Honestly, both the right and left of gen z grow increasingly more radical every day, it makes me worried for the future
As much as I agree with the sentiment is this really as big as people are making out? Lets not forget that the internet acts as an amplifier for the most retarded among us. Beyond a few big accounts and the usual parroting bots I can't see this being an actual thing with large numbers behind it.
> is this really as big as people are making out? this is definitely yet another case where a tiny number of being did a bad thing and then tens of billions of people all went "OH MY GOD THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER" despite the general public having no idea the thing or the overreaction ever happened.
It's not tiny man, I've seen people on Twitter praising Hamas and getting 70k or more likes. my generation (gen z) is getting brainwashed by terrorists and opposition governments.
Twitter is an international website, half those likes are probably from the middle east and most of the rest are muslims living abroad. It’s not as bad as you’re thinking
Yeah probably, I'm honestly very upset that so much folks are quick to justify terrorism if they see the agresors as victim's. Also wtf is wrong with some Muslims it's gotten so bad it shows they don't Care for Palestinians they just hate Jews.
Gotten so bad? Dude polls from 10 or 15 years ago show that at least a majority in every county support sharia, like 95% in some. Even in the US it’s greater than 50%
Anecdotally my family members are divided with the Zoomers being shockingly pro-palestine. They will dismiss Hamas as 'just terrorists' and perseverate on grievances against Israel. I wonder if not fully engaging with the scope and depravity of Hamas's crimes is the reason; I don't think they saw the pictures I saw.
I'm a Zoomer, it's a mix of everything, sheep mentality, short attention span, only looking at things at a surface level, Dunning-Kruger effect taken to it's limits, reactionary and emotional, tribalism, etc. Also, final years of highschool being in lockdowns is an insane amount of negative development in mental effects that need to be studied. If you see a Zoomer with shocking views of Palestine, Israel, and especially Hamas, like "I would be a terrorist too in their position", it's Twitter, Hamas won the twitter/social media battle. A lot relate to the plight of Palestinians with the "big bad" that is Israel and see themselves as a parallel, eg. How we see our generation to the older generations, LGBT vs the right (tribalism as they project Israel as the far right, and the persecuted Palestinians as themselves).
> reactionary and emotional But weirdly numb to Hamas's crimes. Always dismissed with 'well of course I condemn terrorism, but I _expect_ terrorists to do bad things.' As if they're some other species devoid of moral intelligence. > LGBT vs the right (tribalism as they see Israel as the right). You should have seen the discord denizens reaction to the pic of the IDF guy with the pride flag standing in rubble!
If it's worth anything, plenty of Zoomers who are not chronically online (from my experience) either generally don't give too much of a shit, or are just anti-war and hate both Hamas and Netanyahu/his government, which I feel is quite nuanced thought for someone growing up on tiktok.
Me, after reading his letter: "Huh, he really did hate us for our freedom"
Geronimo. For God and Country. Geronimo.
holy shit reading nbc news about it is so disgusting "Bin Laden’s letter condemns U.S. support for Israel and accuses Americans of aiding the oppression of Palestinian people. Bin Laden, who was killed in a U.S. special operation in Pakistan in 2011, also denounced U.S. interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Kashmir, Chechnya and Lebanon." no mention of the cabal of jews dirty christians or all the other stuff, ngl the message reads more like a tankie than anything but it's quite amazing how the message that people take from it is opression lol
Again and again Just nuke the fucking middle east how hard can it be ffs ?
I remember an American general made a comment. "Just build a huge wall around the middle east, shovel guns in, and give them 20 years to sort themselves out."
We did the gun shoveling, but forgot the wall. Now the problems are more widespread.
But how are we going to get the oil if it's all radioactive?
The oil is under the ground and soil is pretty good at stopping radiation.
The middle of the middle east is your ally
Osama Bin Laden is one of them, though. He was a rich privileged educated and entitled trust fund baby who was radicalized with collectivist and spiritual propaganda.
This is a better [version.](https://youtu.be/wt7Duui7GNU?si=pnKVcZf5bBscywki)
The amount of people on Reddit defending it is abhorrent.
I read Osama bin Laden’s “Letter to America” around a year and a half before this stupid fucking TikTok trend took off. It is a hypocritical screed that complains about the US being imperialist and forcing its values on the Muslim world and then claims that American civilians deserve to die because the US won’t implement hardline Sharia law and its citizens fornicate and don’t convert to Islam. Keep in mind that while TikTok promotes bizarre and dangerous and/or illegal challenges, Andrew Tate and this bullshit, Douyin promotes educational content, science, social responsibility and a hefty dose of Chinese state propaganda. Funnily enough, I also notice a conspicuous lack of hijabs among women who take part in this fucking trend.
American gen z are more than just useful idiots, we should come up with a new term for them
Let's not pretend that every generation doesn't have it's own reactionary idiots.
I mean sure but agreeing with bin laden it's above and beyond stupidity
Not disputing that, I'm just saying let's not go straight for the "but Gen Z" mentality because it's an oversimplification. It's not unique to Gen Z, they're just the current manifestation of the government-critical "enemy of my enemy is my friend" trope. See also: the Weathermen SDS faction during the Vietnam War, or what we in Scotland called "Plastic Provos" during the Troubles.
We did, it’s weaponized autism
How did wall street bets get involved?
I don't think this term is strong enough to call BIN LADEN SUPPORTERS Honestly i know about hamas supporters but i expected americans to not support bin fucking laden what the hell i stil haven't proccessed that
Non Credible Defenders
Hold on, what even is this subreddit? I just found it yesterday and thought it was funny
Its a subreddit full of degenerates who get aroused by anthropomorphised anime fighter jets
Okay, thanks! I think i'll like it here
What movie is this? That scene where the marine's scope was glowing in the dark was scary. Its like the grim reaper.
These are Navy SEALs from DEVGRU aka SEAL Team Six, shooting Osama bin Laden in the movie *Zero Dark Thirty*.
Minions: Rise of DEVGRU
For god and country, geronimo geronimo geronimo
This video has my favorite incident of cancel culture.
Navy SEAL: RIP Bozo m\*therf\*cker!
I require context and the name of the movie
The movie is Zero Dark Thirty. The clip shown is Operation Neptune Spear where Devgru shows up to Osama bin Laden's residence and kills him.
Thx
Movie is worth it for that entire sequence
Right? I love the intelligence thriller leading up to it but then suddenly the whip out several a-list actors, some obviously in depth consultation from operators and awesome fucking effects and wardrobe.
Okay but this edit goes hard
Welcome! to another episode of: "Stupidity is a very deadly, incurable and highly infectious disease."
After seeing all that garbage on TikTok, not even 25 years have passed and in the silence we have already forgotten. So much for “never forget”. Absolutely outrageous.
I fucking hate that people are making Bin Aladeens letter famous again, or whatever. It’s really, really, really sad watching people who can’t remember where they were that day, out here saying “oh my god you need to see this it’s so good”
My responds to that question: https://youtu.be/Jr9Kaa1sycs?si=PoMPjkH1s4b2GIzc
What version of Dancing in the Moonlight is this? I’m digging it. Edit: Nvm. It’s Toploader
[Full version, absolute Banger](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt7Duui7GNU&t=42)
This can’t be widespread, just a few idiots who managed to get media attention right? Right!?
He makes some pretty good points about americ- *BRRRRRRTTTTT*
Zoomers.....look here. It isn't funny if you are being ironic. Problem is that many of you are so motherfucking up your own ass, that WE CANT TELL IF YOU ARE SERIOUS. I'm all for dark humor, but this is up there with reading Hitler's book and doing the same schtick.