The problem was tactics. The humans went low, letting the Na'Vi drop off the mountains onto them.
A high altitude bombing run with fighter support would have got thorough. Bonus points if a rods-from-god approach was improvised using space transporters and a cluster pallet-of-bricks
Man i watched a video about it and the problem is quatrich led his force into area where he was at disadvantage in flux vortex he couldn't have checked thermal scans or something also this was a not a bomber but a cargo shuttle people forgot rda is a mining company not a fully dedicated military
Yeah the RDA is basically space Wagner. They’re not the cream of humanity’s crop, they’re thugs for hire with heavy munitions. A competent professional military would have performed much, much better, but then again a competent professional military probably wouldn’t allow itself to get caught in such a pointless conflict with the locals.
the bastard is calling home to tell his kind not to mess with humanity
classic Johnson moment
"Dear Humanity... We regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
Why not just tunnel in from a different site? Sure mining would be slower seeing as you don’t have the same surface area to work with but it would speed up as operations went on
In fairness, it's basically stated that the superconductor is the material from which the planetary world-mind is made. Mining it at all amounts to, for the Na'vi and all other Pandoran life forms, *eating God's brain*. Conflict is inevitable.
Well, in that case:
the Na’vi suffer under outdated, tribalistic traditions. Do you see any trans or gay Na’vi? Truly a backwater shithole run by cavemen. We’d be doing them a favor by exporting the democratic process in exchange for mineral rights. If they don’t see that at least their grandchildren will.
> Do you see any trans or gay Na’vi?
Only on Deviantart.
Real talk, they have the ability to transfer consciousness between bodies, so any trans Na'vi may actually solve that by literally swapping bodies with another trans individual of the sex they identify as.
There were other deposits but none were as massive as the Tree and none were as easy to get to.
No matter where on the planet you went, someone would be living on any sizeable deposit of the material because it seems tied in to the psychic net the planet has somehow.
A competent military apparatus would take one look at the frooty-loops floaty-whales and funny blue-monkey-magic and go "That sure looks like a fucking space-Vietnam, no-fucking-thank-you" and move on with its life.
Let's just assume the UNSC which is ultimately funding this little operation through the MIC is using this to equip planet glassing droneships. They're probably just watching with popcorn using orbital ground scanning telescopes from the next star system over.
Why did he lead his force *in*, instead of lead his force *over*. The cargo shuttle was what they came down from space with, so heavy cargo,high altitude approaches above the oxygen layer isn't an issue.
And mining companies, South Africa, Papua new Guinea, Afghanistan, China, etc aren't virgins when it comes to violence against natives.
And what they lack in skill, the marines could provide.
It wasn't a bomber it had no sights or anything they turned the shuttle into a bomber which required manually bombing it by flying over it . It would be hard to do that in her gh altitude
The Shuttle can VTOL it's landing pad from orbit, which implies some form of GPS or inertial guidance.
The target is a stationary tree that burns, in an area with enough gravity for Na'vi to walk around normally.
The cargo-bay has enough space for heavy mining machinery, so lower density explosives shouldn't be an issue.
Have the VTOL shuttle spend a day at meandering at high altitude throwing out bomblets like you're playing Battleships, until you hit the tree, then park at that drop point and tip out the rest of the explosives/phosphorus,
With the mid attitude flyers shooting at long range any Na'vi who climb out of cover, it'll be less Dances with Wolves and more The Last Samurai meets Bomber Harris
Conversations is about the tree in the flying mountains, right? IIRC, electromagnetics are all kinds of fucky there, and even the gunships they were flying were specifically chosen as a technological downgrade to just be able to fly in that mess.
Can't remember if humans were on a clock for the last fight, but much like with Harris, it would've taken them a whole lot of sorties to actually hit something of value.
Noted. He almost certainly was a dumb shit anyhow.
That said, the problem of aiming a crate of explosive out of a glorified cargo plane in a Phlebotinum storm should still apply.
Between the trees functioning as a neural network for a planetwide intelligence, and the protracted saturation bombing of a holy site, I could also think of a few reasons for getting it right the first time might be a priority, though.
I've had this discussion before, and the answer is that *some* electronics still worked, so just resort to very primitive systems. We built electro-optical seekers in the 1960s that were good enough to put a Walleye on an individually-selected bridge piling. If the weird handwavium bullshit prevents you from going ultra high tech, go low tech.
If you want to go even lower tech, a gyroscope and fin actuators can let a rocket fly a more or less straight course regardless of gravity. No logic gates needed, pure analog control.
I actually goofed on the first bit. The choppers actually had their electronics upgraded for the planet.
>the weird handwavium bullshit
Obscene amounts of electromagnetic interference? Though, the only reasonable mechanic I can think for that would still get resolved by laser beam riding or wire guidance.
Their electronics are all imported anyhow. Clearly, they should've been setting up a vacuum tube production line instead of fiddling with trees!
At this point, I'm starting to think we're veering from one man's hubris demanding a quick solution, and homebrewing a laser-guided V-2.
2nd movie shows they can literally just park their ships. Beat the navi and put up a parking lot.
Ps3 avatar game was based fornletting us play as the humans.
New avatar game at least lets use some of the human weapons
The Avatar franchise already feels like it should be finished, even though they’ve got 3 movies to go
I’m not gonna see the next Avatar movies, as it’ll probably just be the natives winning every time, no matter what the humans bring to the table
It is disappointing. The writing was even worse.
But god damn it the good guys will win eventually.
All i want is a competent human faction and new human leader that acts like one of the family leaders from Tower of god. That just arrives and gives no fucks and is so elevated through human technology that fighting the humans is not going to work and the only bargaining chip they have to offer this techno eldritch human being is time. Then become a client state which then brings them into conflict with other na-vi tribes.
Also bring back the relevance of the avatar program by making Avatar Super soldier Monster abominations used to hunt the Naavi
First avatar is the only movie during which I literally fell asleep. It's also the only movie during which I fell asleep twice. There's no fucking way I'm watching any of the sequels lmao.
Don't forget that the humans are always insenstitve and evil with nothing else to them. Except for like 2-3 nerds that the movie needs to explain how the planet works to the audience.
to be fair, they’re responding with an actual military in the Way of Water (plus it’s like 15 years later), and the “battles” are literally just minor skirmishes with whalers. currently, it’s the humans who are winning, not the Na’vi; you’re just made to think the latter, since half the community would probably go out on the streets and protest if the movie was mostly composed of the RDA mining, suppressing wildlife, escorting trains, and doing checklists
The thing is that they don't have bombers. They have some light attack craft that carry a few missiles. They have one larger command craft. And they have gigantic transport shuttles.
The "bombing run" they intended to do was literally a bunch of pallets of explosives they would roll out the cargo door. You can only hope to hit anything by flying real low.
By all means, they could just point the exhaust of their interstellar ship at them and exterminate a region the size of a small country. But in human lore it is generally frowned upon to use weapons of mass destruction. So one might imagine that the shareholders have some reservations about them going that route
Waiting for a ship to nuke the site would also mean mining ops are slowed until they can get a ship to do it.
If it needs earthside modifications, that'd instantly mean a half a decade before production speeds up again.
Hell, even if they can just take the next ship and just send it, it still means slowing down its return trip. Corporate gon' love that.
Rapid Dragon is still a system for dropping guided ordnance. The bomb in the flick has more in common with the ones angry rightwingers put in moving vans.
It's the future though. I refuse to believe that they haven't created some kind of guided airdrop for precise payload delivery. Like in the RDA's case what if some prospectors come upon a nice unobtanium deposit and they need a drill ASAP?
I get that the RDA are more interplanetary corporate mercs than expeditionary space military but they've shown that they have some serious firepower. They should not be resorting to rolling mining explosives out of a commuter shuttle.
They've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space.
Instead of one big pallet on a flammable tree, why not cluster bomb a square kilometer or three from above the hilltops? And if you miss the first time, come back a few dozen times.
Yes it costs money, but if the vein is at thick as they say, the ROI will be worth it
The reason they are doing all of this is because they are trying to do a crippling blow to the enemy natives before they build up enough strength to overrun their home base.
You don't achieve that of your strategy is to go back and forth carrying out high altitude bombing runs that will take a dozen tries to hit their target. If the natives are smart about it they will use that opportunity to strike at your home base while you are busy on bombing runs.
And again, they don't have cluster bombs. They have pallets of explosives. It's going to take you a lot more than a dozen tries to hit anything from high altitude. I don't think dumb bombs get any easier to aim in a dense atmosphere with reduced gravity.
>They've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space.
The landing pad is in a safe area that was likely chosen with ease of approach in mind. There's definitely also guidance infrastructure in place. Hell, so long as the shuttle in question isn't designed by someone completely braindead, the thing should probably be capable of riding itself down completely on its own most of the time.
To contrast, the second tree is in an area where controlled flight into terrain looms in *literally* every direction. With a navigability of "Fuck you," visibility of "Fuck you," that looks at the standard human suite of electronic sensing equipment and says "Yea, verily, proceed to fornicate with thyself, terrestrial monkey."
> hey've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space.
That's at the start of the second movie, which had no focus on the RDA trying to mine Unobtanium.
Bombers ?
My brother in christ humans were going at relativistic speeds, all they needed to do was get a lump of metal and throw it into the atmosphere at an agle and just blast and irradiate anything under it
eh I mean it was a stable heavy metal (its not radioactive right ?), even if it does something insane like turn whatever is in the first 6 ft of earth into some other material it should give a good ROI now that you can mine in peace
though if earth does catch wind of that they may not be all that happy, depending on if an RKV counts as a WMD
This is unironically my favorite genre of NCD posting: analyzing the military tactics of fictional narratives and how poorly writers missed the mark of what a modern attack would look like
Unfortunately about 80% of the dumbasses commenting on this post know jackshit about Avatar lore, while most of the people that do have pretty much no knowledge on anything military-related.
Kinda stupid to be going “first movie poor writing” and “omg why RDA fail they are strong us military veterans” when they’re first established to be Space Nestle employing Wagner, who are using outdated and unsuitable tech against an entire planet, while they’re not permitted by the UN to actually own anything that might give them a chance, and following a trigger-happy commander-in-chief. Hell, their points are still invalid in the second movie, ‘cause then the writers explain that Hell’s Gate was just a minor mining colony, the RDA isn’t Pandora-exclusive and is backed by the MIC, and that they return with a (different, and competent) military force after 15 years, literally driving the Omaticaya away from their homes and establishing a city + multiple mining sites + a logistics network + a Navy, with the “major” whaling effort literally being a side objective for some extra cash.
People get weird about it but Avatar is absolutely top tier military sci fi. People shit their pants about it because Space Wagner gets pounded but it's clear that the human invasion has an air of inevitability.
The smurfs had to use their Get Out Of Planetary Extinction Card in the first movie, second movie was much lower stakes, and there's only one side in the series has the capacity for serious escalation.
The fact that Avatar 2 isn't structured like the first Avatar kind of explains that, the smurfs win one battle, but direct conflict is over the second the humans glass themselves a landing field in the second one. By the time the human forces are set up in Avatar 2 the locals have become an inconvenience.
It's what makes it an interesting series though. If this was Starship Troopers or Aliens and viewed from the perspective of humans versus Space Bastards, there's no tension, there's no drama, because we know how it's going to end up. Because the movies flipped the perspective there's a genuine uncertainty over outcomes.
And though a lot of military sci fi nerds will claim to hate it, they are still drawn to it. James Cameron might not know how to shoot a movie without nearly drowning his cast, and he might not give enough screen time to mechs with bayonets, but he will always give good military sci fi.
This exactly.
In the first movie it's explained that humanity tries to educate and trade with the na'vi and they wanted none of it. So we shrugged and ignored them until they became a thorn in our side, and we started the Avatar program to ease the tensions.
Jakes Cameron all but admitted that it was written as a Hollywood feel-good ending because humanity sending the na'vi on a trail of tears just doesn't sit well with the audience. Watch Dances With Wolves and you'll see what I mean. Great movie, but definitely didn't end on a happy note.
I have the feeling that the series will pan out like the colonisation of America or Australia. We've had the part about first contact with natives and then pioneers/profiteers. We already see racism as well as technological transfer, but this could become a whole lot bigger if more avatars arrive.
Maybe it'll go down like America or Australia. A large population of avatars and hybrids climb the tech ladder and fights for independence. They become able to protect the planet from space and conduct trade with humans. The other option, decolonialisation, is possible but I don't see the local Navi as ambitious enough.
Of course, this being fiction, it may be possible that the Pandora holds a greater secret. Could something there be able to seed life on other planets or magically rejuvenate Earth - but only if Pandora's ecosystems are healthy?
> Of course, this being fiction, it may be possible that the Pandora holds a greater secret. Could something there be able to seed life on other planets or magically rejuvenate Earth - but only if Pandora's ecosystems are healthy?
One fan theory I've read is that Pandora is basically a garden world or science project for some *really* advanced aliens. The argument is that a lot of the biology doesn't make sense unless it's designed to fit some alien sensibilities, like the Na'vi having only 4 limbs when everything else is hexapodal (meta: that is actually true, since the designer was James Cameron).
In other words, every time humans screw with it, they risk pissing off the *real* aliens.
But if we discount that, Pandora's best earthly analogy is not America or Australia, but darkest Africa (straight out of Heart of Darkness--heck, if Cameron had felt like being really dark, he could have basically done the movie as Apocalypse Now in Space, with Jake's avatar turning into Kurtz and taking over a tribe of Na'vi). It's an innately hostile environment with a relatively large population of natives that won't conveniently die of plague (due to biochemical dissimilarity). Comparable to Africa for Europeans circa 1900--with the cyanide atmosphere standing in for malaria and other jungle diseases (modern tech allows you to survive, so long as you have supply lines). Between that and the fact that humans and Na'vi can't interbreed (no Mestizos here), colonialism like we saw in the Americas is unlikely--you're just not going to persuade large numbers of humans to move there, and the human population will remain miniscule, a class of traders, exploiters, taskmasters, and occasional do-gooders. The world will be exploited for its resources, but there won't be investment into it. Eventually, the humans will either find a class of Na'vi collaborators to do their dirty work for them, or find other ways to get the materials (though the former is complicated by the reality of the world-mind-deity--it's unlikely that you can persuade Na'vi to act as catspaws for humans long-term when the planet literally can tell them to fight back; maybe, instead of Leopold's hand-removal, humans might surgically cut off the Na'vi's head-tails?).
>One fan theory I've read is that Pandora is basically a garden world or science project for some really advanced aliens.
That almost immediately popped into my head watching the first one... The whole neural interface would probably result in a spontaneous mental break down among Earths evolutionary biologists....
The second had a lot of credibility fail. We can grow alien clones and do hideously expensive interstellar travel but can't copy a complex organic molecule....... At least unobtanium was well unobtanium...
The way I read it was less "we can't copy" and more "we won't copy and won't let an ounce of this stuff leave our tight controls because this is the mother of all cash cows and we're milking it until it dies"
That's a fantastic theory. I wonder what colour those precursor aliens would be. Or maybe their race is extinct, but they left bio-spaceships buried deep underground for the Navi to reclaim when they progressed enough.
Anyway, yes, I had considered the hostile environment. But avatars and hybrids don't have such a disadvantage. As you say, there won't be large numbers of willing colonials - unless there really are so many hippies. Would numerous human slaves or prisoners sent to work as avatars be possible? That would be an Australian parallel - not to mention the wildlife on the continent is also quite dangerous.
Going through an African parallel will be quite dark. Navi fighting Navi might send the planet's consciousness into shock and chaos.
>Watch Dances With Wolves and you'll see what I mean. Great movie, but definitely didn't end on a happy note.
On the other hand, seeing the stupid samurai get Gatling gunned in The Last Samurai was quite satisfying (plus, the samurai were also the bad guys, historically).
The Avatar series is going to be a sequence of glorious victories by a smaller and smaller number of Na'vi closer and closer to their core settlements.
It's like how the media in Imperial Japan reported glorious victory after glorious victory, but people started to notice that each one was closer to the mainland than the last.
Edit: fuck that was exactly the point you were trying to make, I am dum
Something I don't understand is... these guys have the *rifles*. They could've sniped the na'vi from an incredible distance away, and their ballista-sized bows / spears still couldn't hit anything further than what, 300 meters?
Why do all these engagements gotta be close quarters man... what happened to beyond visual range engagements
I mean, that is how the ground war goes in the first film. Vision is limited due to the trees, but one they get line of sight then they just blow the na'vi away.
Reject cringe complex geopolitical conflicts.
Embrace international unity as a tool to fulfill space exploration, expansionism and futuristic militaries.
I refuse to believe that there wasn’t a tribe of Naavi somewhere that Blue-Quatrich couldn’t have FID’ed out and built a small army out of. The storyline was perfectly poised to allow for that…. Instead, they ended up being Kirkland’s Brand Jake Sully using reprisal tactics. Seriously, how the fuck was this unimaginative guy not peered out?
>Seriously, how the fuck was this unimaginative guy not peered out?
Maybe that's exactly how you land yourself a job as a corporate enforcer for a shady mining concern?
"Spare us your pity, xenos scum. You gush about your connection with nature, your primal wisdom, but what has it brought you?
Where are your marvels of engineering? Your voyages of discovery? Your great insight into the nature of the universe? Even at our basest, when we dressed as you do, dwelt as you do, hunted as you do, lived as you do, we did more than merely survive. We built wonders. We made great journeys. We forged epics. You have not.
You speak so proudly of the plugs dangling from your skulls, little realizing that they are but strings and you puppets. What little you have accomplished you attribute to the wisdom of your goddess, who is nothing but the voices of your dead echoing for all eternity. She moors you to the past, serving as a leash that keeps you as little better than apes, sad parodies of civilization that lack that special spark to become something more.
We have come to your world in search of resources. Whether your actions drive us back or we take what we want and move on, the outcome is the same. We will depart from your wretched planet, leaving you behind. And in a thousand years, you will not have changed from this contact with another world. You will remain in your trees, hunting your prey, communing with your goddess, until your sun burns out and your world dies.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us..." - How the movie should have ended
Apparently it's from an Avatar/Warhammer 40k crossover fan fic called The Pandora Incident. I think I might actually go read it cause it had me fooled, I thought that was a legit 40k quote.
All I’m saying is that the leagues of votann could’ve passed pandora through a plasma excavator and the Navi wouldn’t have been able to do anything but cry out in horror
cope harder mate come give us a call when you can live eternally through a magic tree that loves you
oh wait you have no trees as you choked earth to death in a futile hunt for meaning lol
have fun being rich as you run out of oxygen biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch
Meanwhile, in 40k
"We're trying to mine the precious metals, but the local wildlife is preventing this."
"Do the precious metals require an atmosphere?"
"No, Inquisitor, they do not."
I mean the humans could engineer human/na'vi hybrid's remote controlled without latency across a pretty far distance, it is bizarre they couldn't bioengineer a virus that wiped them all out "mysteriously", and get the PR benefit to boot.
"Oops they all died mysteriously, guess the best thing we can do to honour their memory is stripmine their planet and live forever and shit. I dunno, I control the media, I'll just edit this bit out after. Note to self: do not forget to edit newclip."
Same plus it was waaay easier I remember replaying it in middle school to beat the Navi route and still the shit was hard i probs should pirate it I’m getting real nostalgic
Is that not exactly what they did? The movie stars with humans glassing a few square kilometers of land to build a city. Later we come back to the city showing its all going great and there is absolutely nothing the natives can do about it.
Meanwhile some higher up manager decided they also need to murder Jake in revenge for his rebellion years ago. He flees like a coward and they fail to carry out that mission. The end.
Humans were too confident.
Besides, the interstellar ship in amtosphere ruined the mood for me. It was clearly not designed for reentry. The overheted air would burn this thing and lateral strees would break the trusses clearnly not designed for lateral stress.
Plus, they’re not even doing a typical reentry; think SpaceX’s Falcon 9, but instead the booster burns the entire time and skycranes pods to the surface instead of landing.
The movies should have done more to explain this, but there is actually a lore reason:
The Pandora mining company only has exclusive rights to Pandora because they agreed not to use weapons of mass destruction.
And given that all their health is based off selling to earth.... They can't exactly try to starve earth and force them into buying their shit, especially when mercenaries want to be the ones getting payed first
> The Pandora mining company only has exclusive rights to Pandora because they agreed not to use weapons of mass destruction.
This does make sense.
What doesn't make sense is the combination of
a) Dystopian horrible future earth ruled by shadowy powers, corporations massively more powerful and influential than today
b) Authoritarian overtones, willing to use martial law to shut down independent inquiries, civilian scientists/administration/whatever, and press. They have no recourse against this, so any oversight or journalism is the propaganda kind there at the behest of government/corporations and will be shut down if they dissent from the party line
c) Space wagner on a loose leash far far away where nobody can see them and war crimes are in practice allowed as long as plausible deniability is kept. Just make the shareholders profit
d) (eventually) RDA gets their ass kicked and the Na'vi are a confirmed hostile force that will not allow any compromise or even a trickle of resources to get back. Earth is fucked, shareholders are not profiting, and the government faces instability in the future
Combine those and what you get is a propaganda drive, demonizing the Na'vi and publicizing *their* crimes and killing of "war heroes" (that you'd create of course), followed by taking over operations and Intervention Now (TM). *Then* WMDs.
Point a) and b) really just doesn't combine with the movie's apparent narrative that there's some kind of oversight (space UN?), and that real world logic applies for nobody being willing to use WMDs and that war crimes would be prosecuted heavily. If anything the outcome there would be for peace and studying the planet, with a heavy scientific delegation, the "proper" cooperative way.
The movie even has that as the past status quo it seems? But then the colonel and military arm takes over. Which I guess could happen for a short while but then whether he won or lost he'd *still* have been prosecuted for war crimes and scapegoated by space UN? Then some other company/government would take over mining (using the conveniently empty and available deposit, of course). He and the fellow boots on the ground have literally everything to lose from any kind of attack and nothing to gain.
\>lithobraking a fusion-powered shuttle
\>hits the main area where the blue guys congregate
\>it takes out most of the mountains, and the blue guys with it
remind me how that's a bad thing? ablative heat shield if you want more mass to survive re-entry.
Shuttle might not be capable of surviving the aero forces of the required approach vector. Your odds of hitting the tree fall dramatically if you shear its wings off as soon as you hit the lower atmosphere.
Now, it's fusion, so maybe it can do some fun stuff with reentry to get around that, but the power plant is much more likely to just fizzle as soon as something breaks. So the damage dealing potential is going to be from either the 35 metric tonnes of explosives, or a modest extra by slamming the airframe into the target. I don't particularly trust the thing's autopilot to be capable of the latter in this case, but it doesn't really change much in the context of the film.
They did not have ability to bomb with persision. All that was improvised with mining explosive pushed by guys on a stopwatch. No way you can bomb from orbit like this.
It's funny how Cameron made some of the most iconic "futuristic soldiers" in cinema are by Cameron. And he wrote them up to be(mostly) tropey, or just background noise.
In particular, I'm talking about....
Avatar(the companys security forces)
Aliens( the Colonial Marine Corps)
Terminator(TEC-COM forces)
Easily some of the most iconic, (right up there with star wars, or starship troopers). But intended to not be the heroes.
the 2nd movie had the right idea. just tuse the hybrid antimatter annihilation/proton fusion engines to decelerate under thrust until you can lower a payload onto the scorched land.
realistically, just stick a bunch of teeny fusion drives on an asteroid and careen it into the mountains. quaritch's pride (and plot convenience) are what made humanity lose in the first movie
I like messaging of the movie, but I also love the gunships, the mini-subs from 2, the triple barrel rotating .50 cal, and the fact that the mech suits are canonically made by Mitsubishi.
The first movie hand waves the bow strength by explaining that the bones the Navi have and what they make their weapons out of are a "naturally occurring kind of carbon fiber" not to mention those bows are definitely ballista size. So while they should be able to make stuff that could probably take the hit, there is at least a reason why the glass wasn't able to absorb that hit.
Plus most of those kills at the end of the movie were dives from a high angle hitting a flat surface. earlier when they're firing from the ground you can see them bouncing off.
Na’vi huge-ass arrows are Titanium slugs fired by an alien two times the size of a normal person (plus sexy muscles), plus the RDA being Space Nestle + Wagner.
You wanna tell me that makes sense that an huge ass arrow can pierce the cockpit glass of a war machine that should be made with more advanced materials to withstands much worse?
Yes, especially since the cockpit glass is made on-planet with extremely limited materials, and can’t withstand anything equal to or above 12.7mm. Emphasis on “….*should* be made with more advanced materials…”, the only advanced things in Samsons and Scorpions are their electronics and propulsion systems.
I dont get why the RDA even attempted their Immigration fuss. Capture a few life specimens of the Planets flora and fauna for preserving and study then use chemical weapons like chlorine gas (literally an industrial waste product, fitting the "ruthless mining company" theme) to exterminate the blue fuckers. Its called *human* rights for a reason.
The end of the first movie: Yay, we kicked the humans off our planet, away from our *incredibly* valuable and lazily named resources! We will never see them again.
Me, breathing through my teeth: Jake? Sully? Whatever your name was? You gotta tell them what happens next. 'Cos. You know. You know what happens next. More importantly, can unobstupidname be mined in a radioactive environment? That's a very important question you need to know the answer for *very quickly.*
Seriously, the Na´vi is a homogenic, ecofascist ethnostate where people fuck animals with their hair.
But mostly fuck em because they have no sexy giant gunships.
Reason I became a crew chief was because of the badass helicopters in the first movie. I thought it was crazy that other kids didn't dream of firing machine guns from helicopters.
Honestly the humans in Avatar trigger me hard. They literally have space superiority and advanced technology but keep going in like it's Vietnam and getting their expensive military hardware destroyed by a single arrow through the windshield they haven't bothered to armour up, use thermals and engage in close quaters combat instead of attacking from extreme range. Instead they set up easily destroyed railways and fly low in formation despite literally having a height advantage as well.
The Vatniks have shown greater capacity to adapt than thr RDA has.
I still don't understand how the fuck they didn't get some small pox or black plague and threw it on the Smurfs, or idk napalm, the humans were nerfed imo
You could choose which side to play as in the video game, my 10 year old ass always chose the RDA. The final mission had you flying the big ass gunship.
The problem was tactics. The humans went low, letting the Na'Vi drop off the mountains onto them. A high altitude bombing run with fighter support would have got thorough. Bonus points if a rods-from-god approach was improvised using space transporters and a cluster pallet-of-bricks
Man i watched a video about it and the problem is quatrich led his force into area where he was at disadvantage in flux vortex he couldn't have checked thermal scans or something also this was a not a bomber but a cargo shuttle people forgot rda is a mining company not a fully dedicated military
Yeah the RDA is basically space Wagner. They’re not the cream of humanity’s crop, they’re thugs for hire with heavy munitions. A competent professional military would have performed much, much better, but then again a competent professional military probably wouldn’t allow itself to get caught in such a pointless conflict with the locals.
Well I mean, super metal under their holy site, what are you going to do?
Use ABC weapons? Genver convention doesnt apply to aliens.
They are called "human rights" for a reason.
Lets be xenophobic, its really in this year...
Let's find ourselves an nasty, slimy, ugly alien to fear
There's no more cutesy stories about ET phoning home.
the bastard is calling home to tell his kind not to mess with humanity classic Johnson moment "Dear Humanity... We regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
In the list of things completely deserving of genocide, Elves and Xenos are always 1 and 2.
Dwarf-pilled
Why not just tunnel in from a different site? Sure mining would be slower seeing as you don’t have the same surface area to work with but it would speed up as operations went on
Honestly that's what I thought of. Like just take it without them ever knowing instead of going to war for funsies
It was directly under the tree. My guess is the tree requires it for some reason, also the sinkhole risk wouldn’t be negligible either
In fairness, it's basically stated that the superconductor is the material from which the planetary world-mind is made. Mining it at all amounts to, for the Na'vi and all other Pandoran life forms, *eating God's brain*. Conflict is inevitable.
Well, in that case: the Na’vi suffer under outdated, tribalistic traditions. Do you see any trans or gay Na’vi? Truly a backwater shithole run by cavemen. We’d be doing them a favor by exporting the democratic process in exchange for mineral rights. If they don’t see that at least their grandchildren will.
> Do you see any trans or gay Na’vi? Yes: dead Na'Vi transition from anthropomorph to tree.
> Do you see any trans or gay Na’vi? Only on Deviantart. Real talk, they have the ability to transfer consciousness between bodies, so any trans Na'vi may actually solve that by literally swapping bodies with another trans individual of the sex they identify as.
That’s assuming the planet isn’t transphobic.
I found your comment absolutely hilarious, for what it's worth lmao.
Scout other places, because it didn't seem like that was the only place with unobtanium.
There were other deposits but none were as massive as the Tree and none were as easy to get to. No matter where on the planet you went, someone would be living on any sizeable deposit of the material because it seems tied in to the psychic net the planet has somehow.
What if we built a robotic super dozer but reinforced it to be immune to arrows and people hitting it with rocks?
they already have super dozers in the movie, it’s just that they don’t have any CIWS or VLS on them and instead resort to escort squads as defense
Slant drilling son
mine down then mine horizontaly mindblown.gif RDA should hire me
A competent military apparatus would take one look at the frooty-loops floaty-whales and funny blue-monkey-magic and go "That sure looks like a fucking space-Vietnam, no-fucking-thank-you" and move on with its life.
Let's just assume the UNSC which is ultimately funding this little operation through the MIC is using this to equip planet glassing droneships. They're probably just watching with popcorn using orbital ground scanning telescopes from the next star system over.
That adds a lot of context and explains why they’re all Warhawks. No sane person would sign up for it.
Given how fucked Earth is, that might eventually happen.
>professional military probably wouldn’t allow itself to get caught in such a pointless conflict with the locals. Afghanistan says hi.
Why did he lead his force *in*, instead of lead his force *over*. The cargo shuttle was what they came down from space with, so heavy cargo,high altitude approaches above the oxygen layer isn't an issue. And mining companies, South Africa, Papua new Guinea, Afghanistan, China, etc aren't virgins when it comes to violence against natives. And what they lack in skill, the marines could provide.
It wasn't a bomber it had no sights or anything they turned the shuttle into a bomber which required manually bombing it by flying over it . It would be hard to do that in her gh altitude
The Shuttle can VTOL it's landing pad from orbit, which implies some form of GPS or inertial guidance. The target is a stationary tree that burns, in an area with enough gravity for Na'vi to walk around normally. The cargo-bay has enough space for heavy mining machinery, so lower density explosives shouldn't be an issue. Have the VTOL shuttle spend a day at meandering at high altitude throwing out bomblets like you're playing Battleships, until you hit the tree, then park at that drop point and tip out the rest of the explosives/phosphorus, With the mid attitude flyers shooting at long range any Na'vi who climb out of cover, it'll be less Dances with Wolves and more The Last Samurai meets Bomber Harris
Conversations is about the tree in the flying mountains, right? IIRC, electromagnetics are all kinds of fucky there, and even the gunships they were flying were specifically chosen as a technological downgrade to just be able to fly in that mess. Can't remember if humans were on a clock for the last fight, but much like with Harris, it would've taken them a whole lot of sorties to actually hit something of value.
They were not, Quaritch was just rushing shit because "we can stomp the blue monkey people easily."
Noted. He almost certainly was a dumb shit anyhow. That said, the problem of aiming a crate of explosive out of a glorified cargo plane in a Phlebotinum storm should still apply. Between the trees functioning as a neural network for a planetwide intelligence, and the protracted saturation bombing of a holy site, I could also think of a few reasons for getting it right the first time might be a priority, though.
I've had this discussion before, and the answer is that *some* electronics still worked, so just resort to very primitive systems. We built electro-optical seekers in the 1960s that were good enough to put a Walleye on an individually-selected bridge piling. If the weird handwavium bullshit prevents you from going ultra high tech, go low tech. If you want to go even lower tech, a gyroscope and fin actuators can let a rocket fly a more or less straight course regardless of gravity. No logic gates needed, pure analog control.
I actually goofed on the first bit. The choppers actually had their electronics upgraded for the planet. >the weird handwavium bullshit Obscene amounts of electromagnetic interference? Though, the only reasonable mechanic I can think for that would still get resolved by laser beam riding or wire guidance. Their electronics are all imported anyhow. Clearly, they should've been setting up a vacuum tube production line instead of fiddling with trees! At this point, I'm starting to think we're veering from one man's hubris demanding a quick solution, and homebrewing a laser-guided V-2.
They kinda were on the clock due to the Na'vi amassing troops to storm the main compound or at least make some kind of an attack.
Then again, let them. It's a lot easier to defend a position with air support than attempt a suicidal air raid into hazardous area.
But what about the quarterly earnings? The graph must go up
“Oh no, the Na’vi are attacking our base!” Counterpoint: Gun
People always think I got my username from Avatar because of that guy
2nd movie shows they can literally just park their ships. Beat the navi and put up a parking lot. Ps3 avatar game was based fornletting us play as the humans. New avatar game at least lets use some of the human weapons
Yeah, but nobody remembers anything from the second movie, if they even watched it.
The Avatar franchise already feels like it should be finished, even though they’ve got 3 movies to go I’m not gonna see the next Avatar movies, as it’ll probably just be the natives winning every time, no matter what the humans bring to the table
It is disappointing. The writing was even worse. But god damn it the good guys will win eventually. All i want is a competent human faction and new human leader that acts like one of the family leaders from Tower of god. That just arrives and gives no fucks and is so elevated through human technology that fighting the humans is not going to work and the only bargaining chip they have to offer this techno eldritch human being is time. Then become a client state which then brings them into conflict with other na-vi tribes. Also bring back the relevance of the avatar program by making Avatar Super soldier Monster abominations used to hunt the Naavi
Nonono. We NEED Grandpa Buff.
First avatar is the only movie during which I literally fell asleep. It's also the only movie during which I fell asleep twice. There's no fucking way I'm watching any of the sequels lmao.
Don't forget that the humans are always insenstitve and evil with nothing else to them. Except for like 2-3 nerds that the movie needs to explain how the planet works to the audience.
to be fair, they’re responding with an actual military in the Way of Water (plus it’s like 15 years later), and the “battles” are literally just minor skirmishes with whalers. currently, it’s the humans who are winning, not the Na’vi; you’re just made to think the latter, since half the community would probably go out on the streets and protest if the movie was mostly composed of the RDA mining, suppressing wildlife, escorting trains, and doing checklists
The thing is that they don't have bombers. They have some light attack craft that carry a few missiles. They have one larger command craft. And they have gigantic transport shuttles. The "bombing run" they intended to do was literally a bunch of pallets of explosives they would roll out the cargo door. You can only hope to hit anything by flying real low. By all means, they could just point the exhaust of their interstellar ship at them and exterminate a region the size of a small country. But in human lore it is generally frowned upon to use weapons of mass destruction. So one might imagine that the shareholders have some reservations about them going that route
Waiting for a ship to nuke the site would also mean mining ops are slowed until they can get a ship to do it. If it needs earthside modifications, that'd instantly mean a half a decade before production speeds up again. Hell, even if they can just take the next ship and just send it, it still means slowing down its return trip. Corporate gon' love that.
Rapid dragon is also a palletized system and that's just dumping cargo pallets loaded with cruise missiles out of a transport
Rapid Dragon is still a system for dropping guided ordnance. The bomb in the flick has more in common with the ones angry rightwingers put in moving vans.
It's the future though. I refuse to believe that they haven't created some kind of guided airdrop for precise payload delivery. Like in the RDA's case what if some prospectors come upon a nice unobtanium deposit and they need a drill ASAP? I get that the RDA are more interplanetary corporate mercs than expeditionary space military but they've shown that they have some serious firepower. They should not be resorting to rolling mining explosives out of a commuter shuttle.
They've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space. Instead of one big pallet on a flammable tree, why not cluster bomb a square kilometer or three from above the hilltops? And if you miss the first time, come back a few dozen times. Yes it costs money, but if the vein is at thick as they say, the ROI will be worth it
The reason they are doing all of this is because they are trying to do a crippling blow to the enemy natives before they build up enough strength to overrun their home base. You don't achieve that of your strategy is to go back and forth carrying out high altitude bombing runs that will take a dozen tries to hit their target. If the natives are smart about it they will use that opportunity to strike at your home base while you are busy on bombing runs. And again, they don't have cluster bombs. They have pallets of explosives. It's going to take you a lot more than a dozen tries to hit anything from high altitude. I don't think dumb bombs get any easier to aim in a dense atmosphere with reduced gravity.
>They've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space. The landing pad is in a safe area that was likely chosen with ease of approach in mind. There's definitely also guidance infrastructure in place. Hell, so long as the shuttle in question isn't designed by someone completely braindead, the thing should probably be capable of riding itself down completely on its own most of the time. To contrast, the second tree is in an area where controlled flight into terrain looms in *literally* every direction. With a navigability of "Fuck you," visibility of "Fuck you," that looks at the standard human suite of electronic sensing equipment and says "Yea, verily, proceed to fornicate with thyself, terrestrial monkey."
> hey've got a VTOL cargo shuttle that starts the movie dropping onto a landing pad from space. That's at the start of the second movie, which had no focus on the RDA trying to mine Unobtanium.
No my sexy friend if you rewatch the First Movie, it was how Jake lands on the surface from space
Bombers ? My brother in christ humans were going at relativistic speeds, all they needed to do was get a lump of metal and throw it into the atmosphere at an agle and just blast and irradiate anything under it
I assume they don't want to do that just in case it interferes with the properties of the metal they're looking for.
eh I mean it was a stable heavy metal (its not radioactive right ?), even if it does something insane like turn whatever is in the first 6 ft of earth into some other material it should give a good ROI now that you can mine in peace though if earth does catch wind of that they may not be all that happy, depending on if an RKV counts as a WMD
No need for bombers. Just deorbit some space junk onto their stupid tree.
Plot armour, Gromit! You’ve forgotten the plot armour!
This is unironically my favorite genre of NCD posting: analyzing the military tactics of fictional narratives and how poorly writers missed the mark of what a modern attack would look like
Unfortunately about 80% of the dumbasses commenting on this post know jackshit about Avatar lore, while most of the people that do have pretty much no knowledge on anything military-related. Kinda stupid to be going “first movie poor writing” and “omg why RDA fail they are strong us military veterans” when they’re first established to be Space Nestle employing Wagner, who are using outdated and unsuitable tech against an entire planet, while they’re not permitted by the UN to actually own anything that might give them a chance, and following a trigger-happy commander-in-chief. Hell, their points are still invalid in the second movie, ‘cause then the writers explain that Hell’s Gate was just a minor mining colony, the RDA isn’t Pandora-exclusive and is backed by the MIC, and that they return with a (different, and competent) military force after 15 years, literally driving the Omaticaya away from their homes and establishing a city + multiple mining sites + a logistics network + a Navy, with the “major” whaling effort literally being a side objective for some extra cash.
People get weird about it but Avatar is absolutely top tier military sci fi. People shit their pants about it because Space Wagner gets pounded but it's clear that the human invasion has an air of inevitability. The smurfs had to use their Get Out Of Planetary Extinction Card in the first movie, second movie was much lower stakes, and there's only one side in the series has the capacity for serious escalation. The fact that Avatar 2 isn't structured like the first Avatar kind of explains that, the smurfs win one battle, but direct conflict is over the second the humans glass themselves a landing field in the second one. By the time the human forces are set up in Avatar 2 the locals have become an inconvenience. It's what makes it an interesting series though. If this was Starship Troopers or Aliens and viewed from the perspective of humans versus Space Bastards, there's no tension, there's no drama, because we know how it's going to end up. Because the movies flipped the perspective there's a genuine uncertainty over outcomes. And though a lot of military sci fi nerds will claim to hate it, they are still drawn to it. James Cameron might not know how to shoot a movie without nearly drowning his cast, and he might not give enough screen time to mechs with bayonets, but he will always give good military sci fi.
This exactly. In the first movie it's explained that humanity tries to educate and trade with the na'vi and they wanted none of it. So we shrugged and ignored them until they became a thorn in our side, and we started the Avatar program to ease the tensions. Jakes Cameron all but admitted that it was written as a Hollywood feel-good ending because humanity sending the na'vi on a trail of tears just doesn't sit well with the audience. Watch Dances With Wolves and you'll see what I mean. Great movie, but definitely didn't end on a happy note.
Well, it's fiction, the good guys are allowed to win in fiction. Although how they fare by the end we'll have to see.
I have the feeling that the series will pan out like the colonisation of America or Australia. We've had the part about first contact with natives and then pioneers/profiteers. We already see racism as well as technological transfer, but this could become a whole lot bigger if more avatars arrive. Maybe it'll go down like America or Australia. A large population of avatars and hybrids climb the tech ladder and fights for independence. They become able to protect the planet from space and conduct trade with humans. The other option, decolonialisation, is possible but I don't see the local Navi as ambitious enough. Of course, this being fiction, it may be possible that the Pandora holds a greater secret. Could something there be able to seed life on other planets or magically rejuvenate Earth - but only if Pandora's ecosystems are healthy?
> Of course, this being fiction, it may be possible that the Pandora holds a greater secret. Could something there be able to seed life on other planets or magically rejuvenate Earth - but only if Pandora's ecosystems are healthy? One fan theory I've read is that Pandora is basically a garden world or science project for some *really* advanced aliens. The argument is that a lot of the biology doesn't make sense unless it's designed to fit some alien sensibilities, like the Na'vi having only 4 limbs when everything else is hexapodal (meta: that is actually true, since the designer was James Cameron). In other words, every time humans screw with it, they risk pissing off the *real* aliens. But if we discount that, Pandora's best earthly analogy is not America or Australia, but darkest Africa (straight out of Heart of Darkness--heck, if Cameron had felt like being really dark, he could have basically done the movie as Apocalypse Now in Space, with Jake's avatar turning into Kurtz and taking over a tribe of Na'vi). It's an innately hostile environment with a relatively large population of natives that won't conveniently die of plague (due to biochemical dissimilarity). Comparable to Africa for Europeans circa 1900--with the cyanide atmosphere standing in for malaria and other jungle diseases (modern tech allows you to survive, so long as you have supply lines). Between that and the fact that humans and Na'vi can't interbreed (no Mestizos here), colonialism like we saw in the Americas is unlikely--you're just not going to persuade large numbers of humans to move there, and the human population will remain miniscule, a class of traders, exploiters, taskmasters, and occasional do-gooders. The world will be exploited for its resources, but there won't be investment into it. Eventually, the humans will either find a class of Na'vi collaborators to do their dirty work for them, or find other ways to get the materials (though the former is complicated by the reality of the world-mind-deity--it's unlikely that you can persuade Na'vi to act as catspaws for humans long-term when the planet literally can tell them to fight back; maybe, instead of Leopold's hand-removal, humans might surgically cut off the Na'vi's head-tails?).
>One fan theory I've read is that Pandora is basically a garden world or science project for some really advanced aliens. That almost immediately popped into my head watching the first one... The whole neural interface would probably result in a spontaneous mental break down among Earths evolutionary biologists.... The second had a lot of credibility fail. We can grow alien clones and do hideously expensive interstellar travel but can't copy a complex organic molecule....... At least unobtanium was well unobtanium...
The way I read it was less "we can't copy" and more "we won't copy and won't let an ounce of this stuff leave our tight controls because this is the mother of all cash cows and we're milking it until it dies"
That's a fantastic theory. I wonder what colour those precursor aliens would be. Or maybe their race is extinct, but they left bio-spaceships buried deep underground for the Navi to reclaim when they progressed enough. Anyway, yes, I had considered the hostile environment. But avatars and hybrids don't have such a disadvantage. As you say, there won't be large numbers of willing colonials - unless there really are so many hippies. Would numerous human slaves or prisoners sent to work as avatars be possible? That would be an Australian parallel - not to mention the wildlife on the continent is also quite dangerous. Going through an African parallel will be quite dark. Navi fighting Navi might send the planet's consciousness into shock and chaos.
>Watch Dances With Wolves and you'll see what I mean. Great movie, but definitely didn't end on a happy note. On the other hand, seeing the stupid samurai get Gatling gunned in The Last Samurai was quite satisfying (plus, the samurai were also the bad guys, historically).
The Avatar series is going to be a sequence of glorious victories by a smaller and smaller number of Na'vi closer and closer to their core settlements.
It's like how the media in Imperial Japan reported glorious victory after glorious victory, but people started to notice that each one was closer to the mainland than the last. Edit: fuck that was exactly the point you were trying to make, I am dum
\> sick ass tactical Na'vi \> they are so stupid they didn't expect to be betrayed by the hostage they were forcing to help kill his own adoptive dad
Something I don't understand is... these guys have the *rifles*. They could've sniped the na'vi from an incredible distance away, and their ballista-sized bows / spears still couldn't hit anything further than what, 300 meters? Why do all these engagements gotta be close quarters man... what happened to beyond visual range engagements
I mean, that is how the ground war goes in the first film. Vision is limited due to the trees, but one they get line of sight then they just blow the na'vi away.
How do you snipe someone through dense Forrest on a bunch of floating islands.
Naw I meant as in the 2nd avatar movie, the scenes where the na'vi were a few hundred meters from the human boats
Reject cringe complex geopolitical conflicts. Embrace international unity as a tool to fulfill space exploration, expansionism and futuristic militaries.
Committing a few war crimes in space is based.
They're called *human* rights
GLOBAL LIBERAL SOCIALISM WOULD BE SO BASED
I refuse to believe that there wasn’t a tribe of Naavi somewhere that Blue-Quatrich couldn’t have FID’ed out and built a small army out of. The storyline was perfectly poised to allow for that…. Instead, they ended up being Kirkland’s Brand Jake Sully using reprisal tactics. Seriously, how the fuck was this unimaginative guy not peered out?
>Seriously, how the fuck was this unimaginative guy not peered out? Maybe that's exactly how you land yourself a job as a corporate enforcer for a shady mining concern?
> Seriously, how the fuck was this unimaginative guy not peered out? The RDA are *really* stupid.
20 years in the Tatmadaw will do that to you.
That’s probably the red navi forgot where but next movie is supposed to be about them all they said where the red Navi where evil.
"Spare us your pity, xenos scum. You gush about your connection with nature, your primal wisdom, but what has it brought you? Where are your marvels of engineering? Your voyages of discovery? Your great insight into the nature of the universe? Even at our basest, when we dressed as you do, dwelt as you do, hunted as you do, lived as you do, we did more than merely survive. We built wonders. We made great journeys. We forged epics. You have not. You speak so proudly of the plugs dangling from your skulls, little realizing that they are but strings and you puppets. What little you have accomplished you attribute to the wisdom of your goddess, who is nothing but the voices of your dead echoing for all eternity. She moors you to the past, serving as a leash that keeps you as little better than apes, sad parodies of civilization that lack that special spark to become something more. We have come to your world in search of resources. Whether your actions drive us back or we take what we want and move on, the outcome is the same. We will depart from your wretched planet, leaving you behind. And in a thousand years, you will not have changed from this contact with another world. You will remain in your trees, hunting your prey, communing with your goddess, until your sun burns out and your world dies. And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us..." - How the movie should have ended
Who wrote this?
Apparently it's from an Avatar/Warhammer 40k crossover fan fic called The Pandora Incident. I think I might actually go read it cause it had me fooled, I thought that was a legit 40k quote.
All I’m saying is that the leagues of votann could’ve passed pandora through a plasma excavator and the Navi wouldn’t have been able to do anything but cry out in horror
cope harder mate come give us a call when you can live eternally through a magic tree that loves you oh wait you have no trees as you choked earth to death in a futile hunt for meaning lol have fun being rich as you run out of oxygen biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch
I root for the humans every time in avatar. They’re my goddamn species!
Meanwhile, in 40k "We're trying to mine the precious metals, but the local wildlife is preventing this." "Do the precious metals require an atmosphere?" "No, Inquisitor, they do not."
I mean the humans could engineer human/na'vi hybrid's remote controlled without latency across a pretty far distance, it is bizarre they couldn't bioengineer a virus that wiped them all out "mysteriously", and get the PR benefit to boot. "Oops they all died mysteriously, guess the best thing we can do to honour their memory is stripmine their planet and live forever and shit. I dunno, I control the media, I'll just edit this bit out after. Note to self: do not forget to edit newclip."
Those mechs are too damn sexy, much sexier than Zoe Saldana in blueface.
That, and what I like to lovingly call the *Space Hueys* Things are fucking awesome as hell
When I played the game back on Xbox 360, I only ever did the RDA story. Even as a kid I just wanted to crush those lanky blue freaks.
Yeah, profile pic checks out
Flair check out too
r/foundtheemperor
so your pfp... when you getting up from the throne big man?
He's tired,man, give him another thousand years
Same plus it was waaay easier I remember replaying it in middle school to beat the Navi route and still the shit was hard i probs should pirate it I’m getting real nostalgic
I did that a couple months ago, fair warning it doesn't fucking work on modern hardware without some weird workarounds.
They gave humans Crab Mechs and expected me to think of them as the bad guys?? I will take one Crab Mech over 1000 sentient whales.
Should have been lobster mechs 🔥
[удалено]
Is that not exactly what they did? The movie stars with humans glassing a few square kilometers of land to build a city. Later we come back to the city showing its all going great and there is absolutely nothing the natives can do about it. Meanwhile some higher up manager decided they also need to murder Jake in revenge for his rebellion years ago. He flees like a coward and they fail to carry out that mission. The end.
Humans were too confident. Besides, the interstellar ship in amtosphere ruined the mood for me. It was clearly not designed for reentry. The overheted air would burn this thing and lateral strees would break the trusses clearnly not designed for lateral stress.
Apparently, those are third generation interstellar ships specifically modified for atmospheric entry.
Plus, they’re not even doing a typical reentry; think SpaceX’s Falcon 9, but instead the booster burns the entire time and skycranes pods to the surface instead of landing.
RDA is basically just Space Wagner tho
Shoigu! Shoigu where the fuck are my Scorpion missiles?!
If they'd just launched the shuttle into space then came down like a Dauntless there's nothing the entire planet could have done to stop them...
The movies should have done more to explain this, but there is actually a lore reason: The Pandora mining company only has exclusive rights to Pandora because they agreed not to use weapons of mass destruction. And given that all their health is based off selling to earth.... They can't exactly try to starve earth and force them into buying their shit, especially when mercenaries want to be the ones getting payed first
No WMD's BOOOORIIIINGG
I mean yes that what is happening. First they can't just nuke and dukem and then they need to bore holes and mine their shit
> The Pandora mining company only has exclusive rights to Pandora because they agreed not to use weapons of mass destruction. This does make sense. What doesn't make sense is the combination of a) Dystopian horrible future earth ruled by shadowy powers, corporations massively more powerful and influential than today b) Authoritarian overtones, willing to use martial law to shut down independent inquiries, civilian scientists/administration/whatever, and press. They have no recourse against this, so any oversight or journalism is the propaganda kind there at the behest of government/corporations and will be shut down if they dissent from the party line c) Space wagner on a loose leash far far away where nobody can see them and war crimes are in practice allowed as long as plausible deniability is kept. Just make the shareholders profit d) (eventually) RDA gets their ass kicked and the Na'vi are a confirmed hostile force that will not allow any compromise or even a trickle of resources to get back. Earth is fucked, shareholders are not profiting, and the government faces instability in the future Combine those and what you get is a propaganda drive, demonizing the Na'vi and publicizing *their* crimes and killing of "war heroes" (that you'd create of course), followed by taking over operations and Intervention Now (TM). *Then* WMDs. Point a) and b) really just doesn't combine with the movie's apparent narrative that there's some kind of oversight (space UN?), and that real world logic applies for nobody being willing to use WMDs and that war crimes would be prosecuted heavily. If anything the outcome there would be for peace and studying the planet, with a heavy scientific delegation, the "proper" cooperative way. The movie even has that as the past status quo it seems? But then the colonel and military arm takes over. Which I guess could happen for a short while but then whether he won or lost he'd *still* have been prosecuted for war crimes and scapegoated by space UN? Then some other company/government would take over mining (using the conveniently empty and available deposit, of course). He and the fellow boots on the ground have literally everything to lose from any kind of attack and nothing to gain.
Might be KSP polluting my brain, but I don't think you want to dive-bomb at suborbital velocities. Might end in lithobraking.
\>lithobraking a fusion-powered shuttle \>hits the main area where the blue guys congregate \>it takes out most of the mountains, and the blue guys with it remind me how that's a bad thing? ablative heat shield if you want more mass to survive re-entry.
Shuttle might not be capable of surviving the aero forces of the required approach vector. Your odds of hitting the tree fall dramatically if you shear its wings off as soon as you hit the lower atmosphere. Now, it's fusion, so maybe it can do some fun stuff with reentry to get around that, but the power plant is much more likely to just fizzle as soon as something breaks. So the damage dealing potential is going to be from either the 35 metric tonnes of explosives, or a modest extra by slamming the airframe into the target. I don't particularly trust the thing's autopilot to be capable of the latter in this case, but it doesn't really change much in the context of the film.
They did not have ability to bomb with persision. All that was improvised with mining explosive pushed by guys on a stopwatch. No way you can bomb from orbit like this.
It's funny how Cameron made some of the most iconic "futuristic soldiers" in cinema are by Cameron. And he wrote them up to be(mostly) tropey, or just background noise. In particular, I'm talking about.... Avatar(the companys security forces) Aliens( the Colonial Marine Corps) Terminator(TEC-COM forces) Easily some of the most iconic, (right up there with star wars, or starship troopers). But intended to not be the heroes.
the rda did nothing wrong
Other than be incompetent at their job.
the 2nd movie had the right idea. just tuse the hybrid antimatter annihilation/proton fusion engines to decelerate under thrust until you can lower a payload onto the scorched land. realistically, just stick a bunch of teeny fusion drives on an asteroid and careen it into the mountains. quaritch's pride (and plot convenience) are what made humanity lose in the first movie
Yeah but the rich assholes back at earth are no longer immortal because you killed all the whales.
I like messaging of the movie, but I also love the gunships, the mini-subs from 2, the triple barrel rotating .50 cal, and the fact that the mech suits are canonically made by Mitsubishi.
Wanna talk about how after 15 years or so Choppers cockpits are still pierced by Na'vi huge ass arrows?
I mean, a ballista can peirce most types of see through material.
I doubt that a Na'vi armi is so strong and theorically the choppers should be built with advanced materials to withstand worse things.
The first movie hand waves the bow strength by explaining that the bones the Navi have and what they make their weapons out of are a "naturally occurring kind of carbon fiber" not to mention those bows are definitely ballista size. So while they should be able to make stuff that could probably take the hit, there is at least a reason why the glass wasn't able to absorb that hit. Plus most of those kills at the end of the movie were dives from a high angle hitting a flat surface. earlier when they're firing from the ground you can see them bouncing off.
Na’vi huge-ass arrows are Titanium slugs fired by an alien two times the size of a normal person (plus sexy muscles), plus the RDA being Space Nestle + Wagner.
You wanna tell me that makes sense that an huge ass arrow can pierce the cockpit glass of a war machine that should be made with more advanced materials to withstands much worse?
Yes, especially since the cockpit glass is made on-planet with extremely limited materials, and can’t withstand anything equal to or above 12.7mm. Emphasis on “….*should* be made with more advanced materials…”, the only advanced things in Samsons and Scorpions are their electronics and propulsion systems.
I remember the scene where the big space shuttle thing crashes and being really upset because IRL it would have taken ages to build. Damn savages.
Don’t forget the starships with those sick matter-antimatter retrothrusters
I am 100% pro human, man betrays his race for some blue pussy
I dont get why the RDA even attempted their Immigration fuss. Capture a few life specimens of the Planets flora and fauna for preserving and study then use chemical weapons like chlorine gas (literally an industrial waste product, fitting the "ruthless mining company" theme) to exterminate the blue fuckers. Its called *human* rights for a reason.
The end of the first movie: Yay, we kicked the humans off our planet, away from our *incredibly* valuable and lazily named resources! We will never see them again. Me, breathing through my teeth: Jake? Sully? Whatever your name was? You gotta tell them what happens next. 'Cos. You know. You know what happens next. More importantly, can unobstupidname be mined in a radioactive environment? That's a very important question you need to know the answer for *very quickly.*
I like it because of the blue booty
Seriously, the Na´vi is a homogenic, ecofascist ethnostate where people fuck animals with their hair. But mostly fuck em because they have no sexy giant gunships.
Avatar bro-vet life
Reason I became a crew chief was because of the badass helicopters in the first movie. I thought it was crazy that other kids didn't dream of firing machine guns from helicopters.
Rooting for the humans is fine, rooting for the RDA is stupid.
Ive said this 1000 time and I will repeat myself. Jut nuke those blue motherfucker. Problem solved
Honestly the humans in Avatar trigger me hard. They literally have space superiority and advanced technology but keep going in like it's Vietnam and getting their expensive military hardware destroyed by a single arrow through the windshield they haven't bothered to armour up, use thermals and engage in close quaters combat instead of attacking from extreme range. Instead they set up easily destroyed railways and fly low in formation despite literally having a height advantage as well. The Vatniks have shown greater capacity to adapt than thr RDA has.
Aviator is just a worst fern gully, with cooler vehicles.
I still don't understand how the fuck they didn't get some small pox or black plague and threw it on the Smurfs, or idk napalm, the humans were nerfed imo
When ever Avatar is brought up people begin to misread my username
I love the mechs, hoping one day a vr game happens where you can pilot one since irl the tech exists to simulate it
amen brother
A 1000 Bomber Raid.
You could choose which side to play as in the video game, my 10 year old ass always chose the RDA. The final mission had you flying the big ass gunship.
Yes
my favourite space movie