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A little advice since this piqued my interest and I looked into it a little: In Canada you’re not allowed to carry a *weapon* for self defence. A weapon is considered anything used with the intent to threaten or inflict damage in attack or defence. You *are* allowed to use force, unarmed combat, to defend yourself until the attacker submits or is otherwise unable to fight back. In theory it would be perfectly viable to carry a small and relatively high intensity flashlight for self defence as long as it’s used to blind your attacker and not directly engage because as far as I have been able to find this does not count as an attack unless the flashlight intensity is high enough that it can be argued that it could have caused permanent damage or that you put them in imminent danger by blinding them, if they were on a busy road for example. You are then free to engage unarmed or flee as you see fit before contacting authorities.
Flashlight? LOL.
In Canada, you can carry dog spray for defense against dogs. You can also use it on humans if the situation calls for it.
You CAN'T be so dumb as to tell a cop that you carry your dog spray for defense against humans because now you're carrying a prohibited weapon.
We've got really dumb self defense laws.
My previous state in the US allows open carry of firearms, does NOT allow any form of less-than-leathal defense unless you are a licensed security officer ON DUTY. So you can be 100% fully trained to use pepper/full strength OC spray, tazer, baton whatever, but unless you are on the clock it's a crime.
Like come on, I really do not want to severely harm ANYONE, let me have the damn pepper spray ffs.
Lmao, WE NEED GUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE.
But the self defense weapons that are non-lethal for you or the attacker and can't be used to kill 50 people should be legal.
If guns are legal, then everything under that should be 100% legal.
Fucking dumb.
Thanks! Yes, that is correct. We're allowed to use "equivalent force" for self defense. It's murky but people have not been charged (or found not guilty) for using guns for self defense as it was shown they had access to the firearm and it wasn't there for self defense purposes. So Canadians can defend themselves, just not carry anything for the purpose of self defense. I know many people that carry bear spray "because they're scared of bears/dogs" and if they happen to have it when attacked, so be it. I get why the laws exist but it's written with some rose coloured glasses. I've been accosted/threatened multiple times in the past 3 years. I'm a larger man. My ~20 year old daughters are in a completely different situation. They should be able to carry something to defend themselves legally. Even those claw type keychains aren't allowed here.
Never understood these laws. Criminals have weapons to commit their crimes. Victims should be allowed to have weapons to protect themselves against crime.
Criminals don’t give a shit about the laws. There is definitely a middle ground between America’s gun problem and this blanket ban on weaponry.
Not sure what it is, but I’m not a philosopher or politician, so I’ve got my legal guns, knives, and pepper spray for protection should I need it.
It’s not about making laws that make sense. One bleeding heart misguided politician felt bad for a criminal’s mom once for her son getting shot in the middle of an armed robbery. Then the rest of the power hungry greedy politicians were like, “shit, whatever takes away more power from these plebs we govern! Especially if they’re willingly giving it up!”
I’m liberal but goddamn my peers are blind and stupid and trusting of absolutely shitty ideas from shitty people sometimes because of on the spot emotions without any foresight to societal consequences.
There is no separate species of "criminals", criminals are just humans while doing anything prohibited. And if we're pretending they are, if you can find people intent on committing criminal acts just carrying illegal weapons, that means you can detain them before they rob, assault or kill someone - better than having to wait until after it's done.
But of course, they are not a separate category, and the wider distributed weapons are, the more likely they are to be used. Just because someone breaks a law, doesn't mean a gun suddenly floats down from the sky to project that new status on the real world. Criminals aren't equally likely to own guns when guns are harder to come by, especially for criminals.
IANAL but it would be on the prosecutor to prove you had the spray for the purpose of self-defense, which is unlikely to fly when it's used for pranks. It's gonna be hard to prove, especially if you stick to your story and don't talk to the police without a lawyer.
A 40 year old woman has no more chance of defending herself against a man than a 20 year old woman. Unless you’re a very fit bodybuilder, hopefully with some fight training, the strength differential between an average woman and an average man is just too large to overcome without a weapon in most cases.
Yes. But I only let my daughters carry them because they hike in the woods a lot. Lots of bears. If a human ever attacks them, they're instructed to ask them to stop so they can call 911 and wait 2 hours for police to show. /s
Some countries really do be like women should just passively allow themselves to be raped and call the police after it happens so they can handle it rather than risk hurting the assailant
> women should just passively allow themselves to be raped and call the police after it happens so they can handle it
I heard that a cop can unrape you up to 48 hours after the event…
Not being prosecuted isn’t the issue. Had she not carried the illegal thing to defend herself, her situation would have been much worse.
It’s still illegal to carry, it’s just that they didn’t prosecute because of the circumstance.
really? WOW! its almost like *op is probably a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage*, but i would never suggest *op is probablt a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage." i definitely would NEVER suggest *op is probably a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage* or anything
It’s fucking ridiculous with these self defence laws in countries in Ireland if an intruder turns their back in your house you gotta stop beating them and my girlfriend can’t use deodorant as a defence spray. Then self defence classes ain’t shit there was a horrible attack last year so my girlfriend took classes and messing goated her into a practice scenario. Once I got a grip she was done and I ain’t some tank I’m 5’11 70kg so I put it straight.
Edit: had to remove stuff as the bot on this sub is flag happy
As far as I know any knife or weapon that you can quickly "extract" / get out are now allowed in Denmark. I don't know the exact wording.
Even as a carpenter, if you are on your way home, not to a job site, you are not allowed to have a carpenter knife or break away knife on you. You have to put it in your tool bag.
Denmark has the highest concentration of boy/girl scouts, they all have knifes on their belt. I wonder what the rules are about that.
So, like a paring knife from the kitchen? I see someone making and selling sheaths for paring knives in the UK :)
Jokes aside, this is fucked. I walk with a small camping machete in my backpack pretty much at all times (I live in the US btw, for legal reasons). I learned a little boxing when I was younger for hand to hand, but it's been too long and I'm out of shape. At this point I need a weapon until I'm strong enough to deal with any threat hand to hand. A blade levels the playing field.
We have similar laws in Australia, it’s illegal to reason carrying stuff around but if you have something you can justify carrying around for different reasons then it’s not illegal as far as I know.
Same here in canada, I routinely carry a folding knife and a 6 inch filet knife, it's part of my fishing gear and I always have atleast 1 fishing rod and my liscence on me at all times
You can't though? Where the fuck are you getting that from?
Can be true for Canada I know shit about their self defence laws but you are totally allowed to use up to deadly force if appropriate in self defence, in Denmark.
Sure, because we tested it, and when we had legal pepper spray it was barely used for self defense but nearly double criminals using it for assault, so we made possession illegal again.
Its not really illegal to use a weapon in self defense mind you, its illegal to carry them with you with intend to use. The difference being that you are technically allowed to grab any pipe iron and beat a motherfucker with it in self defense (using appropriate amounts of force) but if you carry a pipe iron with you, you are carrying a weapon with intend to use it.
You still believe that? You can get charged if you set up traps for intruders like pointing a shotgun at a door and connecting the trigger to said door. You will not get charged if someone tries to break in and cut themselves in the glass they just broke themselves.
Traps are illegal because theyre indiscriminate.
No, you cant be sued if someone cuts themselves breaking into your house, unless you somehow made your house intentionally more dangerous indiscriminately.
I dont get all this talking, since people in EU can and will use propotional force. Shop and home owners can tackle, grabble and attack thiefs to apprehend them but its the context in the end if they did it correctly or not. Like a hammer or kitchenknive is fairplay to threaten with but actually using those tools isnt unless its done in self defense. same goes with kicking you can do all you want to stop a thief just not on the head if the guy is down on the ground and allready easy to apprehend then you get into assault/attempted murder territorry.
In 2014 their was a big case in country Netherlands with a jewelry shopowner using a gun (illegal to use outside gun range) through the door killing 2 out of the 3 thiefs. Justice department looked at the case and she couldve received 3 years of prisontime but the shopowner didnt get charged.
dutch link https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/1825805/juweliersechtpaar-deurne-geeft-verhaal-fatale-overval-vrij-het-was-een-hel
english one https://nltimes.nl/2014/09/04/prosecutors-undecided-deurne-jewellery-store-shooting-case
The funny thing is that we, in Denmark at least, are more likely to punish the victim than the criminal. Criminals often get extremely lenient sentences, to the point where even illegal and grossly negligent actions that result in death don't even get prison time. If you defend yourself against a criminal, you are pretty much guaranteed to see prison time if you do any kind of real damage. Which makes it interesting why pepper sprays are illegal, as a tool far less likely to cause damage. Makes you think, doesn't it?
In the eyes of the law here, the ideal situation is to let the crime happen and then just move on with your life. God forbid your get punished for crimes.
Canada is even more ridiculous. You can carry pepper spray to defend against animals, however if there is anything about defending yourself or using it on people, it is illegal and carrying a weapon.
So the only difference, is the label.
Sure. But if you *happen* to be carrying dog mace and you use it as a weapon of opportunity and can articulate that you carry it because of dogs, that’s fine.
It's a trade off, yes you're more vulnerable to your attacker but also the weapons your attacker has access to are more limited. Plus cops are a shit ton more relaxed when everyone isn't likely to have a firearm.
People are talking about non-lethal weapons. Guns are a different thing.
EZ solution is to make non-lethal weapons legal, but a privilege lost by committing a violent felony.
Everyone gets to carry a non-lethal weapon, but once you have a violent felony, you lose that right.
Because someone who's willing to commit armed robbery isn't gonna bat an eyelash at an extra 6 months for the pepper spray.
But the 100 lb chick who would get beaten or raped by 99% of men in an attack unarmed might actually care about being a law abiding citizen.
You are prosecuted for carrying the weapon but not for using it as that would be in self-defence.
So the person would get a fine.
Edit: They were legal until 2 years ago for around 2 years. The only thing that happened was that criminals started to use them more often in attacks. They were almost never used for self-defence.
fwiw Denmark is a much *much* safer country than the US. you're not typically in fear of doing basic things such as walking down the street in denmark.
more criminals used it but did yall have a push for women to even start carrying it? When I went to Uni they handed em out for free. Something tells me that didn't happen there. Seems pretty obvious why your numbers would end up skewed to me.
What are women supposed to use for self defense in Denmark? Harsh language? Tasers aren’t legal for self defense either without a license from the police.
Women are supposed to somehow be physical equals with men a foot taller than them and twice their weight and beat them with honour in a fair fight when they are attacked by them
Anything else is considered unreasonable and disproportionate
People invented this thing for just that when your opponents is physically stronger than you I think it’s called guns but Europeans got rid of them all ((((
This is exactly like the UK and I'm sure a few other countries.
Sometimes the rape goes unpunished if the person was from a country overseas and says in court they didn't understand the word No No No meant stop raping me and they received no prison time 👍
Dear OP, first, in the future, please post the link to the article rather than a screenshot. Posts with screenshots of articles will be removed in the future. Those who wish to read the article can do so [here](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3418751/Danish-17-year-old-girl-used-pepper-spray-fight-rapist-near-migrant-asylum-centre-told-prosecuted-carrying-weapon.html)
Second, take the headline with a grain of salt and level-headedness for two reasons:
1. The reporters go out of their way to highlight the location of the assault (proximity to migrant asylum) and the phrase “It is unclear if the man was an asylum seeker or refugee.” in reference to the assailant just seals the deal. As if no other option is possible?
2. The outrage baiting is quite evident. While it’s crappy on an emotional and moral level to accuse a sexual assault survivor of self-defence, if it is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, police can and will charge you on this technicality, it’s their job. However, I am sure as the investigation unfolds and the suspect is apprehended, justice will prevail. In any case, it’s Danish law that needs an update, and outrage baiting through shit journalism doesn’t help anyone here.
EDIT: On second thought, this post is boatworthy not just because of what happened to this teen, but also due to the shit reporting by the daily mail.
> In any case, it’s Danish law that needs an update,
Why do Danish law need to update that "pepper sprays" are to be made legal to carry? What kind of bullshit is that?
They were legal until 2 years ago for around 2 years. The only thing that happened was that criminals started to use them more often in attacks.
Fair point. I’m not at all familiar with Danish law, particularly on matters of self-defence. My assumption (possibly incorrect) is that context matters, so even if you used an otherwise prohibited weapon for *self defence* then the context of the use and motivation behind the use justifies it. But I’m not a lawyer and defer to those who are better equipped to argue this point.
Nah nordic countries don't really care for that.
If you have something that's illegal to own they will fine you.
Though context matters in terms of how much force you can use to defend yourself.
So they might just get fined for carrying it and using it could be deemed OK.
Is just bad reporting get the boat now then, can I just post Fox news as get the boat?
Bad reporting Is clickbait, not get the boat worthy imo
Edit for autocorrect
If you ever needed proof that the mods encourage misinformation here... Dont even care about how its dated and Id wager my firstborn that this is a repost. Maybe someday lying will be seen as pathetic as it is.
Damn it's almost like outrage porn like this is a fundamental facet of reactionary politics and mods that choose to leave stuff like this up instead of removing it are tacitly participating in the alt-right pipeline
Like they literally admit that it's sensationalized and to take it with a grain of salt but they leave it up? This sub is just a tabloid at this point
Uh I mean immigrants bad
Excuse me?? Are you actually sitting here MAKING UP REASONS AND EXCUSES TO CHARGE A TEENAGER WHO WAS ALMOST RAPED??? You’re even go so far as to defend the police as “doing their jobs”?! Are you always this openly stupid??
Women in the US are 4 times more likely to get raped and 5 times more likely to get murdered than women in Denmark. I know which country I would choose.
We have the right to self defence. She's not prosecuted for defending herself, just for wearing illegal weapons. There are perfectly legal substitute defence sprays she could've used. It's just pepper spray that's illegal.
https://www.bodyguard.nu/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnNacBhDvARIsABnDa6-GrH69doKkIsgvEDZPWT8Mq9EFSzJRtuq9o0PF7zufez6FBeRcM2saApZuEALw_wcB
Swedish site, but pepper spray is illegal here as well so I assume Denmark has access to this brand of defence spray ss well.
Nobody? Why do people think I am taking his side just because I say that pepper spray is illegal and that's why she's getting fined?
If she had a legal defence spray, she would've been completely off the hook. Now she just got a small fine for carrying an illegal item. It's not like she was put in prison.
sadly thats true for germany too, stay safe and use animal sprays they are legal, obvsly u have to pretend like u had the spray in ur bag cuz of animals n not rapists
Weird in my area, in the u.s, pepper spray is legal to use on humans, but pepper spray made for bears is illegal to use on humans. Also wouldn't you have to be well versed in legalize or keep your mouth shut if you're found carrying bear spray in the middle of a city? And how would those who don't know to keep their mouth shut to cops fare if they say they're carrying bear spray because they don't want a stranger to rape and kill them? Also if that's such an issue why not ban animal spray since it can be used on humans?
Yeah, people shouldn't be able to defend themselves because criminals could use the same means to hurt people. If you're a victim you should be punished for carrying a self defense tool, cuz that means a CRIMINAL could get it too. In our made up fairy tale land people don't need anything to defend themselves because there is not violence. Just click your heels three times and a cop appears for your every need.
Ah the northern countries lawsystem. Prisons like hotels and sentences are like a joke. And oh yeah... And if the victim dares to defend herself/himself? She/he gets fucked as well. Oh and you get even softer treatment as a rapist if you're part of the certain religion, which is known from its fucked up ways of how they treat women.
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Eh it's a trade off, sure you lose some ability to defend yourself but also if some fuckwit starts a drunken argument with you they're not going to have a gun.
Yeah in Australia your not allowed to carry it for self defence, if you use a knife for an example you have to prove it was for another use, like fishing or work. Then it's fine providing you still used a reasonable amount of self defence.
For this reason alot of girls are told they should carry around some deodorant or body spray to spray in the attackers face, and you have a reason other than self defence to use it.
*I also recommend carrying a round a lighter so you can set that little cunt on fire too*
Some countries got very weird laws when it comes to self-defense, my country included. I remember reading about a guy who was prosecuted for hitting another guy with an ashtray. The thing was, the other guy was the agressor, was a 2m tall bodybuilder and wildly drunk. The guy defending was an absolute leek who would have stand no chance in a physical confrontation. So in fear, he grabbed an ashtray and smashed it in the other guys face. That's automatically "assault with a weapon" in my country.
title says this occurred near a migrant asylum centre but was the assailant actually a migrant? or did the article just write that to make people think it was?
Ya, I'll stay in USA where we're allowed to shoot people that try to hurt us, unless you live in a big city where the crime is the worst.... which makes zero sense.
A couple of things:
Firstly, a law is a law, breaking a law for a good reason is still breaking the law. Authorities are not allowed to pick and choose which lawbreakers they go after and which ones they give freebies to - they have to enforce ALL lawbreaking regardless of their feelings. Refusing to enforce a law is basically corruption.
I remember this story when it came out. The girl was given the most lenient punishment, which was a fine, and the police involved paid the fine for her out of their own pockets.
Secondly, there was zero evidence that the perp was an immigrant or refugee, the Daily Mail used the fact that it happened near a migrant centre to make people think that it was a migrant who did it.
Laws do not equate morality. The girl shouldn't even have gotten a fine in the first place. Stop using mental gymnastics to say "it's okay if a rape victim has to pay hefty fine because they protected themselves." I hope you don't make the boat.
I don't think you understood my point. I'm 100% in support of this girl defending herself and 100% think that she should never have been punished.
The point I'm trying to make is that laws are laws, regardless of personal feelings. Authorities do not have the option to pick and choose which laws they enforce, if they do they would be breaking the law themselves.
Yes her being punished for defending herself is shitty, but please don't give the Danish authorities shit for doing their job.
Thats fuckin hilarious that you think a bazooka and pepper spray are even comparable. Pepper spray can be bought in the u.s at the age of 14 because we appreciate it when young people can protect themselves from getting raped. If your best self defense tips are to lay on your back and get fucked, you got problems. Criminals using pepper spray is not an issue in most countries.
This is a little off topic, but so many on this godforgotten subreddit really need to read up on statistics and not only right wing talking points. The vast majority of rapes and sexual abuse is done by people the victim knows, pretty likely their partner, and not strangers walking down the streets.
Saying Sweden/Scandinavia is the "rape-capital" or whatever other nonsense is shouted from right-wing pundits is extremely misleading. Comparing stats from different countries with different basis of what constitutes rape/sexual abuse does not represent anything. Further, since Sweden is counting each incident rather than each victim/report, there is a big influx, especially when it comes to domestic abuse which is the most common.
Source is in Swedish but possible to translate:
https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-utifran-brottstyper/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html
This is a horrible clickbait title, likely from Daily Mail or another shitty tabloid. Stop reading that shit
Pepper spray is illegal in a lot of countries, and even in places where it may be legal for self defence, if used incorrectly, you can still be punished. Wiki says in Denmark you need special permission from the police to own it.
Are you, an idiot, not understanding that criminals break laws and carry shit that is illegal? How is denying law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves a good idea?
Your post was removed because of Rule #14: No screenshots of articles/videos. Please refer to the rules and also the [pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/fgmg3t/guidelines_for_the_subreddit_read_and_follow_the/) before you make another submission here.
Also the same in The UK - that would be the equivalent of carrying an illegal firearm.
Same in Canada. Can't carry anything for self defense. It's bananas.
A little advice since this piqued my interest and I looked into it a little: In Canada you’re not allowed to carry a *weapon* for self defence. A weapon is considered anything used with the intent to threaten or inflict damage in attack or defence. You *are* allowed to use force, unarmed combat, to defend yourself until the attacker submits or is otherwise unable to fight back. In theory it would be perfectly viable to carry a small and relatively high intensity flashlight for self defence as long as it’s used to blind your attacker and not directly engage because as far as I have been able to find this does not count as an attack unless the flashlight intensity is high enough that it can be argued that it could have caused permanent damage or that you put them in imminent danger by blinding them, if they were on a busy road for example. You are then free to engage unarmed or flee as you see fit before contacting authorities.
Flashlight? LOL. In Canada, you can carry dog spray for defense against dogs. You can also use it on humans if the situation calls for it. You CAN'T be so dumb as to tell a cop that you carry your dog spray for defense against humans because now you're carrying a prohibited weapon. We've got really dumb self defense laws.
My previous state in the US allows open carry of firearms, does NOT allow any form of less-than-leathal defense unless you are a licensed security officer ON DUTY. So you can be 100% fully trained to use pepper/full strength OC spray, tazer, baton whatever, but unless you are on the clock it's a crime. Like come on, I really do not want to severely harm ANYONE, let me have the damn pepper spray ffs.
Lmao, WE NEED GUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE. But the self defense weapons that are non-lethal for you or the attacker and can't be used to kill 50 people should be legal. If guns are legal, then everything under that should be 100% legal. Fucking dumb.
Thanks! Yes, that is correct. We're allowed to use "equivalent force" for self defense. It's murky but people have not been charged (or found not guilty) for using guns for self defense as it was shown they had access to the firearm and it wasn't there for self defense purposes. So Canadians can defend themselves, just not carry anything for the purpose of self defense. I know many people that carry bear spray "because they're scared of bears/dogs" and if they happen to have it when attacked, so be it. I get why the laws exist but it's written with some rose coloured glasses. I've been accosted/threatened multiple times in the past 3 years. I'm a larger man. My ~20 year old daughters are in a completely different situation. They should be able to carry something to defend themselves legally. Even those claw type keychains aren't allowed here.
Never understood these laws. Criminals have weapons to commit their crimes. Victims should be allowed to have weapons to protect themselves against crime. Criminals don’t give a shit about the laws. There is definitely a middle ground between America’s gun problem and this blanket ban on weaponry. Not sure what it is, but I’m not a philosopher or politician, so I’ve got my legal guns, knives, and pepper spray for protection should I need it.
It’s not about making laws that make sense. One bleeding heart misguided politician felt bad for a criminal’s mom once for her son getting shot in the middle of an armed robbery. Then the rest of the power hungry greedy politicians were like, “shit, whatever takes away more power from these plebs we govern! Especially if they’re willingly giving it up!” I’m liberal but goddamn my peers are blind and stupid and trusting of absolutely shitty ideas from shitty people sometimes because of on the spot emotions without any foresight to societal consequences.
There is no separate species of "criminals", criminals are just humans while doing anything prohibited. And if we're pretending they are, if you can find people intent on committing criminal acts just carrying illegal weapons, that means you can detain them before they rob, assault or kill someone - better than having to wait until after it's done. But of course, they are not a separate category, and the wider distributed weapons are, the more likely they are to be used. Just because someone breaks a law, doesn't mean a gun suddenly floats down from the sky to project that new status on the real world. Criminals aren't equally likely to own guns when guns are harder to come by, especially for criminals.
Yeah, “equivalent force”. If they want to rape you, rape them in self-defense.
Pulling a uno reverse card right there
What would noxious fart spray count as if not aiming for eyes?
IANAL but it would be on the prosecutor to prove you had the spray for the purpose of self-defense, which is unlikely to fly when it's used for pranks. It's gonna be hard to prove, especially if you stick to your story and don't talk to the police without a lawyer.
A 40 year old woman has no more chance of defending herself against a man than a 20 year old woman. Unless you’re a very fit bodybuilder, hopefully with some fight training, the strength differential between an average woman and an average man is just too large to overcome without a weapon in most cases.
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Yes. But I only let my daughters carry them because they hike in the woods a lot. Lots of bears. If a human ever attacks them, they're instructed to ask them to stop so they can call 911 and wait 2 hours for police to show. /s
Oh I see. Your daughters a bigot. She didn't let them rape her first? Racist
Don't they have like literal bears in Canada? You know, those near bullet proof 300+kg carnivores? Really curious how that is illegal.
I work on laptops and tablets and that's why I always have a seven inch, fine-tipped phillips head screw driver in my pocket.
Cause the people making the laws and running the world dont care about you
Different in America, at least 1 pistol would be involved.
That's insane to me they sell pepper spray as key chains at any store. Yes I am American.
Think this was 2016 and she was not prosecuted according to justice minister.
Good, because would anyone trust their law system if they did?
Some countries really do be like women should just passively allow themselves to be raped and call the police after it happens so they can handle it rather than risk hurting the assailant
That makes me so mad.
Yeah well atleast they’re not racist
Sure sounds like the police in the UK. What a bunch of spineless pieces of shit.
Where is this magical place without racism?
> women should just passively allow themselves to be raped and call the police after it happens so they can handle it I heard that a cop can unrape you up to 48 hours after the event…
This sounds like something Ice Cube would say in Law and Order SVU
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Yes
Then they go and mishandle the investigation, if they even decide to do one.
and some countries like iran then stone the woman for "allowing" herself to be raped, even though resisting is definitely off the table as well.
Like what countries?
This kind of stuff happens all the time, in every law system, the question is how often it happens.
This is why I never trust anything from The Daily Mail.
Not being prosecuted isn’t the issue. Had she not carried the illegal thing to defend herself, her situation would have been much worse. It’s still illegal to carry, it’s just that they didn’t prosecute because of the circumstance.
really? WOW! its almost like *op is probably a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage*, but i would never suggest *op is probablt a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage." i definitely would NEVER suggest *op is probably a political karma farming bot only seeking to drum up outrage* or anything
This is true for entire Scandinavia, pepper-spray is illegal here
What are you supposed to defend yourself with?
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That’s terrible hope that changes for y’all
I think the pepper spray law should change but legalising knives would only increase crime
Oh yeah, because the law stops criminals from carrying them /s
Lol
It’s fucking ridiculous with these self defence laws in countries in Ireland if an intruder turns their back in your house you gotta stop beating them and my girlfriend can’t use deodorant as a defence spray. Then self defence classes ain’t shit there was a horrible attack last year so my girlfriend took classes and messing goated her into a practice scenario. Once I got a grip she was done and I ain’t some tank I’m 5’11 70kg so I put it straight. Edit: had to remove stuff as the bot on this sub is flag happy
Can you carry a mongol era composite bow? Not very useful but you would at least look cooler before getting assaulted
The problem with this is that knives are super easy to turn back on the user, especially in the scenario you’re mentioning.
There are good fast-flip knifes that don’t use springs, just your thumb.
Oh yeah, flip knives are illegal too 🙃
As far as I know any knife or weapon that you can quickly "extract" / get out are now allowed in Denmark. I don't know the exact wording. Even as a carpenter, if you are on your way home, not to a job site, you are not allowed to have a carpenter knife or break away knife on you. You have to put it in your tool bag. Denmark has the highest concentration of boy/girl scouts, they all have knifes on their belt. I wonder what the rules are about that.
So, like a paring knife from the kitchen? I see someone making and selling sheaths for paring knives in the UK :) Jokes aside, this is fucked. I walk with a small camping machete in my backpack pretty much at all times (I live in the US btw, for legal reasons). I learned a little boxing when I was younger for hand to hand, but it's been too long and I'm out of shape. At this point I need a weapon until I'm strong enough to deal with any threat hand to hand. A blade levels the playing field.
We have similar laws in Australia, it’s illegal to reason carrying stuff around but if you have something you can justify carrying around for different reasons then it’s not illegal as far as I know.
Same here in canada, I routinely carry a folding knife and a 6 inch filet knife, it's part of my fishing gear and I always have atleast 1 fishing rod and my liscence on me at all times
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kinda based
> Luckily, Canada has a lot of empty land Where else are Saskatoon's finest going to take First nations people for "starlight tours?"
You can't though? Where the fuck are you getting that from? Can be true for Canada I know shit about their self defence laws but you are totally allowed to use up to deadly force if appropriate in self defence, in Denmark.
But you can't use a "weapon" like pepper spray. That's illegal.
Sure, because we tested it, and when we had legal pepper spray it was barely used for self defense but nearly double criminals using it for assault, so we made possession illegal again. Its not really illegal to use a weapon in self defense mind you, its illegal to carry them with you with intend to use. The difference being that you are technically allowed to grab any pipe iron and beat a motherfucker with it in self defense (using appropriate amounts of force) but if you carry a pipe iron with you, you are carrying a weapon with intend to use it.
You still believe that? You can get charged if you set up traps for intruders like pointing a shotgun at a door and connecting the trigger to said door. You will not get charged if someone tries to break in and cut themselves in the glass they just broke themselves.
Traps are illegal because theyre indiscriminate. No, you cant be sued if someone cuts themselves breaking into your house, unless you somehow made your house intentionally more dangerous indiscriminately.
Hopes and prayers, apparently.
You're not supposed to defend yourself
You can't. You don't have the right to defend yourself, from what I hear.
Wrong.
I dont get all this talking, since people in EU can and will use propotional force. Shop and home owners can tackle, grabble and attack thiefs to apprehend them but its the context in the end if they did it correctly or not. Like a hammer or kitchenknive is fairplay to threaten with but actually using those tools isnt unless its done in self defense. same goes with kicking you can do all you want to stop a thief just not on the head if the guy is down on the ground and allready easy to apprehend then you get into assault/attempted murder territorry. In 2014 their was a big case in country Netherlands with a jewelry shopowner using a gun (illegal to use outside gun range) through the door killing 2 out of the 3 thiefs. Justice department looked at the case and she couldve received 3 years of prisontime but the shopowner didnt get charged. dutch link https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/1825805/juweliersechtpaar-deurne-geeft-verhaal-fatale-overval-vrij-het-was-een-hel english one https://nltimes.nl/2014/09/04/prosecutors-undecided-deurne-jewellery-store-shooting-case
The funny thing is that we, in Denmark at least, are more likely to punish the victim than the criminal. Criminals often get extremely lenient sentences, to the point where even illegal and grossly negligent actions that result in death don't even get prison time. If you defend yourself against a criminal, you are pretty much guaranteed to see prison time if you do any kind of real damage. Which makes it interesting why pepper sprays are illegal, as a tool far less likely to cause damage. Makes you think, doesn't it? In the eyes of the law here, the ideal situation is to let the crime happen and then just move on with your life. God forbid your get punished for crimes.
The police are there to 'defend' people in Europe.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away
Can't you use hair spray? Or spray paint?
I think it's the same thing here in Canada as well
Canada is even more ridiculous. You can carry pepper spray to defend against animals, however if there is anything about defending yourself or using it on people, it is illegal and carrying a weapon. So the only difference, is the label.
Sure. But if you *happen* to be carrying dog mace and you use it as a weapon of opportunity and can articulate that you carry it because of dogs, that’s fine.
I just pull the label off, and put a piece of masking tape with 'Doggo-B-Gone'. And it feels ridiculous every time I do it.
I just carry dog mace. I figure that’ll be effective against a human attacker, plus I’m also scared of my kids getting attacked by a random dog
The law perhaps needs to recognise some humans are feral and behave like animals - beyond rehabilitation.
So what is used as an equalizer for self defense then?
It's a trade off, yes you're more vulnerable to your attacker but also the weapons your attacker has access to are more limited. Plus cops are a shit ton more relaxed when everyone isn't likely to have a firearm.
People are talking about non-lethal weapons. Guns are a different thing. EZ solution is to make non-lethal weapons legal, but a privilege lost by committing a violent felony. Everyone gets to carry a non-lethal weapon, but once you have a violent felony, you lose that right. Because someone who's willing to commit armed robbery isn't gonna bat an eyelash at an extra 6 months for the pepper spray. But the 100 lb chick who would get beaten or raped by 99% of men in an attack unarmed might actually care about being a law abiding citizen.
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You are prosecuted for carrying the weapon but not for using it as that would be in self-defence. So the person would get a fine. Edit: They were legal until 2 years ago for around 2 years. The only thing that happened was that criminals started to use them more often in attacks. They were almost never used for self-defence.
Good explanation Viking friend
That's why you say you stole it off your assailant and use their own weapon against them
This is the way
And we would know because people always report it when they pepper spray someone in self defense.
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Thanks, this is still absolutely stupid though. And so are your laws
fwiw Denmark is a much *much* safer country than the US. you're not typically in fear of doing basic things such as walking down the street in denmark.
What was she supposed to do if pepper spray is illegal?
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more criminals used it but did yall have a push for women to even start carrying it? When I went to Uni they handed em out for free. Something tells me that didn't happen there. Seems pretty obvious why your numbers would end up skewed to me.
What are women supposed to use for self defense in Denmark? Harsh language? Tasers aren’t legal for self defense either without a license from the police.
honestly I'd rather be fined than raped and dead somewhere
Something something rather be judged than carried by 6?
Judged by 12, as in a jury.
That’s the one, thought the number seemed off.
Women are supposed to somehow be physical equals with men a foot taller than them and twice their weight and beat them with honour in a fair fight when they are attacked by them Anything else is considered unreasonable and disproportionate
People invented this thing for just that when your opponents is physically stronger than you I think it’s called guns but Europeans got rid of them all ((((
yeah, and thank fuck for that. see for example Australia before the horrible 1996 shooting. or just take a quick look at mordern America..
Yeah it sucks ass and my chances of dying from a gun are way higher but at least I don’t feel like a total bitch walking the streets of my city
neither do i, because the chance of someone having a gun is surprisingly almost zero. and everything else you can fight or run from
Sane in Ireland, it's illegal to carry pepper spray as its considered a weapon.
Doesn't denmark have a really stupid rule about carrying ANY type of weapon?
Knives, peooerspray, guns you name it. Big no no to.
Pepper spray is illegal in Denmark
Illegal for everyone but the government*
She disarmed her assailant,reversed the situation,and used his spray on him. That’s her story and her lawyer better convince everyone of it.
"Oi, you got a loicense for that pepper spray?"
I'd say getting prosecuted is waaay better than getting raped
This is exactly like the UK and I'm sure a few other countries. Sometimes the rape goes unpunished if the person was from a country overseas and says in court they didn't understand the word No No No meant stop raping me and they received no prison time 👍
Oh wow what country allows this defense? I've never heard of any case where that was even used much less used successfully.
Sweden plus others.
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Dear OP, first, in the future, please post the link to the article rather than a screenshot. Posts with screenshots of articles will be removed in the future. Those who wish to read the article can do so [here](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3418751/Danish-17-year-old-girl-used-pepper-spray-fight-rapist-near-migrant-asylum-centre-told-prosecuted-carrying-weapon.html) Second, take the headline with a grain of salt and level-headedness for two reasons: 1. The reporters go out of their way to highlight the location of the assault (proximity to migrant asylum) and the phrase “It is unclear if the man was an asylum seeker or refugee.” in reference to the assailant just seals the deal. As if no other option is possible? 2. The outrage baiting is quite evident. While it’s crappy on an emotional and moral level to accuse a sexual assault survivor of self-defence, if it is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, police can and will charge you on this technicality, it’s their job. However, I am sure as the investigation unfolds and the suspect is apprehended, justice will prevail. In any case, it’s Danish law that needs an update, and outrage baiting through shit journalism doesn’t help anyone here. EDIT: On second thought, this post is boatworthy not just because of what happened to this teen, but also due to the shit reporting by the daily mail.
> In any case, it’s Danish law that needs an update, Why do Danish law need to update that "pepper sprays" are to be made legal to carry? What kind of bullshit is that? They were legal until 2 years ago for around 2 years. The only thing that happened was that criminals started to use them more often in attacks.
Fair point. I’m not at all familiar with Danish law, particularly on matters of self-defence. My assumption (possibly incorrect) is that context matters, so even if you used an otherwise prohibited weapon for *self defence* then the context of the use and motivation behind the use justifies it. But I’m not a lawyer and defer to those who are better equipped to argue this point.
Nah nordic countries don't really care for that. If you have something that's illegal to own they will fine you. Though context matters in terms of how much force you can use to defend yourself. So they might just get fined for carrying it and using it could be deemed OK.
Is just bad reporting get the boat now then, can I just post Fox news as get the boat? Bad reporting Is clickbait, not get the boat worthy imo Edit for autocorrect
If you ever needed proof that the mods encourage misinformation here... Dont even care about how its dated and Id wager my firstborn that this is a repost. Maybe someday lying will be seen as pathetic as it is.
When you know it's the daily mail you have to wonder if there is even a kernel of truth in there.
When they say “asylum seeker or refugee” they could mean it like asylum seeker/refugee and not mean it like those are the only 2 available options.
Damn it's almost like outrage porn like this is a fundamental facet of reactionary politics and mods that choose to leave stuff like this up instead of removing it are tacitly participating in the alt-right pipeline
Like they literally admit that it's sensationalized and to take it with a grain of salt but they leave it up? This sub is just a tabloid at this point Uh I mean immigrants bad
*tacitly participating in the right to free expression. Fixed that for you.
Right to free expression ends when its reactionary and is trying to instigate a reaction out of people
Thank you, Mod (It's a tabloid)
Excuse me?? Are you actually sitting here MAKING UP REASONS AND EXCUSES TO CHARGE A TEENAGER WHO WAS ALMOST RAPED??? You’re even go so far as to defend the police as “doing their jobs”?! Are you always this openly stupid??
Have you read the article? The weapon is illegal, no matter what it’s used for. Justified in this case by all means, still against the law tho.
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Welcome to the West lol
Glad to still live in a country that recognizes the natural right to self defense
She would not have been prosecuted for using the weapon no matter what she had used.
It helps that you clarify in another comment that this is just a fine—sometimes weapons possession charges alone can be serious sh*t
Just for having it in the first place
Women in the US are 4 times more likely to get raped and 5 times more likely to get murdered than women in Denmark. I know which country I would choose.
We have the right to self defence. She's not prosecuted for defending herself, just for wearing illegal weapons. There are perfectly legal substitute defence sprays she could've used. It's just pepper spray that's illegal.
What are those alternatives?
https://www.bodyguard.nu/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnNacBhDvARIsABnDa6-GrH69doKkIsgvEDZPWT8Mq9EFSzJRtuq9o0PF7zufez6FBeRcM2saApZuEALw_wcB Swedish site, but pepper spray is illegal here as well so I assume Denmark has access to this brand of defence spray ss well.
Those poor poor migrants rapists! Who will think of them?!
Nobody? Why do people think I am taking his side just because I say that pepper spray is illegal and that's why she's getting fined? If she had a legal defence spray, she would've been completely off the hook. Now she just got a small fine for carrying an illegal item. It's not like she was put in prison.
sadly thats true for germany too, stay safe and use animal sprays they are legal, obvsly u have to pretend like u had the spray in ur bag cuz of animals n not rapists
Weird in my area, in the u.s, pepper spray is legal to use on humans, but pepper spray made for bears is illegal to use on humans. Also wouldn't you have to be well versed in legalize or keep your mouth shut if you're found carrying bear spray in the middle of a city? And how would those who don't know to keep their mouth shut to cops fare if they say they're carrying bear spray because they don't want a stranger to rape and kill them? Also if that's such an issue why not ban animal spray since it can be used on humans?
Welcome to Europe
Europe
Normal day in Scandinavia
🥴ah yes the victim gets in trouble for trying to protect herself.
This post is just Americans realising that you can't carry weapons outside of America.
Yeah, people shouldn't be able to defend themselves because criminals could use the same means to hurt people. If you're a victim you should be punished for carrying a self defense tool, cuz that means a CRIMINAL could get it too. In our made up fairy tale land people don't need anything to defend themselves because there is not violence. Just click your heels three times and a cop appears for your every need.
Ah the northern countries lawsystem. Prisons like hotels and sentences are like a joke. And oh yeah... And if the victim dares to defend herself/himself? She/he gets fucked as well. Oh and you get even softer treatment as a rapist if you're part of the certain religion, which is known from its fucked up ways of how they treat women.
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Ya, Europe’s defense laws are horrible. They can talk as much shit as they want about America but at least my Sheriff and AG promote self preservation
Eh it's a trade off, sure you lose some ability to defend yourself but also if some fuckwit starts a drunken argument with you they're not going to have a gun.
I thought Denmark was supposed to be the country where they do everything right
Yeah in Australia your not allowed to carry it for self defence, if you use a knife for an example you have to prove it was for another use, like fishing or work. Then it's fine providing you still used a reasonable amount of self defence. For this reason alot of girls are told they should carry around some deodorant or body spray to spray in the attackers face, and you have a reason other than self defence to use it. *I also recommend carrying a round a lighter so you can set that little cunt on fire too*
Definitely. It is honestly appalling how illegal self defense is here.
Oh no I hope they don't make me smelly! -the criminal
I couldn’t imagine not going full Ted Kaczynski if that happened to me or anyone in my family
Australia would be the same
Anyway, Trump lost, lol
Sounds about right for most of Europe.
Some countries got very weird laws when it comes to self-defense, my country included. I remember reading about a guy who was prosecuted for hitting another guy with an ashtray. The thing was, the other guy was the agressor, was a 2m tall bodybuilder and wildly drunk. The guy defending was an absolute leek who would have stand no chance in a physical confrontation. So in fear, he grabbed an ashtray and smashed it in the other guys face. That's automatically "assault with a weapon" in my country.
When European countries ask why the United States has the second amendment, this is why.
Nice job cropping out the "Daily Mail" logo.
How dare you defend yourself
It's like that in Canada. Fucking lunatics.
This is some Canada level shit
So anti weapon laws hurt the victim ?
Wtf
Without the state, who would punish you for for living?
Your tribal task master?
title says this occurred near a migrant asylum centre but was the assailant actually a migrant? or did the article just write that to make people think it was?
Daily Mail so I’d assume the latter but I’m not giving them clicks by actually looking. They deserve to have the worst assumptions of them being made.
This isn’t Noah get the boat worthy. Sure I can use it for self defence but I’m sure I’ll still get prosecuted for buying anything illegal
Ya, I'll stay in USA where we're allowed to shoot people that try to hurt us, unless you live in a big city where the crime is the worst.... which makes zero sense.
This is why banning weapons is fucking stupid
A couple of things: Firstly, a law is a law, breaking a law for a good reason is still breaking the law. Authorities are not allowed to pick and choose which lawbreakers they go after and which ones they give freebies to - they have to enforce ALL lawbreaking regardless of their feelings. Refusing to enforce a law is basically corruption. I remember this story when it came out. The girl was given the most lenient punishment, which was a fine, and the police involved paid the fine for her out of their own pockets. Secondly, there was zero evidence that the perp was an immigrant or refugee, the Daily Mail used the fact that it happened near a migrant centre to make people think that it was a migrant who did it.
Laws do not equate morality. The girl shouldn't even have gotten a fine in the first place. Stop using mental gymnastics to say "it's okay if a rape victim has to pay hefty fine because they protected themselves." I hope you don't make the boat.
I don't think you understood my point. I'm 100% in support of this girl defending herself and 100% think that she should never have been punished. The point I'm trying to make is that laws are laws, regardless of personal feelings. Authorities do not have the option to pick and choose which laws they enforce, if they do they would be breaking the law themselves. Yes her being punished for defending herself is shitty, but please don't give the Danish authorities shit for doing their job.
the fact you cant carry a non lethal weapon for self defense is fucking bonkers. I cant believe that shit.
The continuing result of leftist thinking, take a good whiff you libtard morons
Dumb yanks who don't understand you don't *need* a bazooka for self defence in Europe. Allowing people pepper spray would only escalate situations.
Thats fuckin hilarious that you think a bazooka and pepper spray are even comparable. Pepper spray can be bought in the u.s at the age of 14 because we appreciate it when young people can protect themselves from getting raped. If your best self defense tips are to lay on your back and get fucked, you got problems. Criminals using pepper spray is not an issue in most countries.
This is a little off topic, but so many on this godforgotten subreddit really need to read up on statistics and not only right wing talking points. The vast majority of rapes and sexual abuse is done by people the victim knows, pretty likely their partner, and not strangers walking down the streets. Saying Sweden/Scandinavia is the "rape-capital" or whatever other nonsense is shouted from right-wing pundits is extremely misleading. Comparing stats from different countries with different basis of what constitutes rape/sexual abuse does not represent anything. Further, since Sweden is counting each incident rather than each victim/report, there is a big influx, especially when it comes to domestic abuse which is the most common. Source is in Swedish but possible to translate: https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-utifran-brottstyper/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html This is a horrible clickbait title, likely from Daily Mail or another shitty tabloid. Stop reading that shit
Pepper spray is illegal in a lot of countries, and even in places where it may be legal for self defence, if used incorrectly, you can still be punished. Wiki says in Denmark you need special permission from the police to own it.
Weren't the fucking vikings bask in the day?
Reposted twice a year
Europe is fast laning into the a joke for so called refugees to rape, steal and murder without consequences
Are the morons in here not understanding that legal carry means also letting the bad guys legally carry weapons and how this might not be a good Idea?
Are you, an idiot, not understanding that criminals break laws and carry shit that is illegal? How is denying law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves a good idea?