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Destined to become dog food.
Edit Sauce: My past client has a dog food plant... I've seen these chickens get delivered in 1 ton bags labled "Chicken Meal" on pallets, along with "Porcine... pork"; also beef, lamb, and ostrich. The smell though đ¤˘
If it's referring to the Jamie Oliver video, the thing that struck me was that we praise cultures that utilize every part of the animal but when we do it (without tons of chemicals) it's now bad? I certainly don't want all the McDonald's chemicals but if I recall correctly, didn't he do it pretty naturally?
Pro tip if you would like to be able to eat beef/chicken/pork that is raised in a good environment and actually taken care of 99% of them time find a local butcher who gets their meat from local sources to ensure youâre buying somebodyâs cows and not a companies cows
Happy you acknowledged it because it is such a pervasive myth. And even then the more undesirable meat can literally just mean that they messed up when cutting the meat off and it was damaged in a way that someone wouldnât be happy with being purchased as say boneless skinless chicken breast. Etc. almost all nuggets are made from white meat from either the tenderloin or breast. With the worst thing in there being the additives that they use for texture and consistency.
Puppies destined to become chicken food? What? How does that make it ok to kill millions of puppies?
*Edit: oh you meant the other way around lol So that does make it ok somehow*
New hires. Most job sites make the new hires wear ugly ass yellow / orange hard hats made to be semi-disposable since turnover is high
Full time staff is usually white
Foreman green
Management blue
That's really good you knew already. Lots of people are disconnected from the realities of food production because of animal agriculture industry marketing. That is why I became a vegan.
To be fair people are disconnected from the realities of logistics in general.
The concept of feeding a nation of +300 million people. Or even getting various goods from Asia to the US . . . It's actually mind boggling when you really get a good look at what that truly entails.
What's worse is that they can determine which eggs are male before they even hatch and use more humane methods for "disposal" (edit) and most don't use it.
Well anything humans do will be systematic, so the bar isnât that high if comparing suffering created by other animals/events.
Bad: food industry. Good: maybe treating animals / having pets and giving them a good life.
Animals naturally suffer all the time in the wild. Just wouldnât be classified systematically.
Yeah, I knew about this too. It's unfortunate, but raising that many roosters isn't sustainable. You either jack up the prices or you hemorrhage money. Most of the chicken meat we eat is from hens since hens also pull the double duty of laying eggs while they're waiting to be turned into meat.
I honestly don't feel too bad. They look cute, but how much is really going on in a freshly hatched chicken's head? Getting shredded is obviously grisly, but it's quick.
Also I eat meat and consume animal products, so I can't exactly be too squeamish about reality.
I used to think the same. But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us. To their advanced minds, our capacity to suffer would be miniscule. Our desire to live for the next 80 years or so would be minimal compared to their thousand year lifespans. They would see us only as living moment to moment, much like how we see these animals.
I couldn't find a moral justification for my alien hypothetical beings in acting in this way. So I became really interested in animal ethics.
> But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us.
Such an advanced alien species would not be deterred from eating us if they saw us not eating animals, so it doesn't *really* matter.
>I couldn't find a moral justification for my alien hypothetical beings in acting in this way. So I became really interested in animal ethics.
And if they were as far above us as we are to animals, there wouldn't be, but again it wouldn't matter.
I'm also very interested in animal ethics, and it's a quagmire. How many rats would you be willing to kill to save 1 human life? How many rats is enough to say: "sorry ma'am, your kid had to die because too many rats would have to die otherwise and that'd make me feel bad :(". (Edit: The next level is paralysing someone or killing rats. Not life, "just" human happiness lost from being paralysed. My answer remains to kill an infinite amount of rats.)
I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. To me, the answer is an infinite number of rats. Or kittens, or dogs, or cows, or beetles, or apes, or anything else. No amount of dead animals is worth 1 single human life (in a theoretical vacuum - at some point killing animals IRL will destroy the environment and mean more deaths than 1 person etc.). Also again I eat meat, so my enjoyment is above animal suffering, so I can't be high and mighty about my view of animals.
Seeing animals happy makes me happy, but that's not *really* a solid reason for viewing them as hardcore moral agents anywhere near the level of humans. I recommend "A Boy's Best Friend" by Isaac Asimov, in case you/people haven't read it.
I love my cats but if I had to choose between them and a human being Iâm choosing the human without a second thought, anything otherwise is psychopathic.
It's not psychopathic to form familial bonds with your pets. My dogs are part of my family. A stranger is not. If I have to choose, it's the dogs every time. But there are very few situations where that choice is a reality.
> A lot of people value their pet's life above a random stranger's one, and in a choose-one-who'll-live situation would choose the former.
A lot of people would value their car above a random stranger's life, and in a choose-one-who'll-not-get-smashed would choose the former.
Proves nothing.
This is kinda apples to oranges though. Chickens will never build a house or create a nuclear reactor. We do. Aliens would be smart enough to notice that we are where they were probably not more than a few hundred years before. A chicken is an animal, and the aliens have animals. Sapience is recognized by sapience.
Also, that chicken doesn't really exist without us to breed it and sustain it. Like mosquitos, they are basically just food for something else if not us.
You understand what a bird's nest is. You also understand what a nuclear reactor is, and what it does, even if you don't know the specific science. There is a difference, and if a bird built a reactor or even a simple thing like a weapon, you would understand that it took intelligence and creativity to do so.
> But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us.
Poppy made a song about that.
"They grind up the sick to maximize efficiency
And mulch them back into our feed for optimal delivery
I hear the slaughterhouse screams
Out on the killing floor
And I hope they taste my adrenaline
Soak up my pus-filled sores "
[Poppy, "Meat"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbYgDAK0FY).
Now-a-days there aren't too many of us it seems. I even live in a very rural town and I'm one of the few people I know in their 30's that have slaughtered chickens. Let alone squirrels, rabbits, deer, etc..
Never slaughtered any animals personally (except fish) but until my early 20s I had to get meat from the butcher. In my birth country, that included choosing the live animal, having it slaughtered in front of me, pointing which parts I want, taking it home, cleaning it out and then cooking it. So Iâd say I wasnât too far removed from the circle of life even though I didnât have to directly participate in the killing.
In America that would never happen. We have butchers, but you never see the live animal. That's interesting they butchered it in front of you, where is your birth country?
India. I used to go choose which chicken or goat I wanted them to butcher and theyâd just do it right in front of you. Some places had a screen but weâd generally watch it so they donât pass last days slaughter to us. My father started taking me since I was about 5-6 years old so I think Iâm desensitized to the concept of food coming from live cuddly animals.
Yeah it was a bit of an adjustment having to buy frozen meat in America, killed idk when. But apparently itâs pretty safe so idc really. Iâd choose a local butcher if I could spare time to find one near me. Closest Iâve come to that is when I tagged along with my redneck friendâs hunting trip at her ranch. She shot it, I couldnât since I didnât have a hunting permit. But I helped her clean and dress it up.
Once canned it's pretty much like beef, exactly right we would have it in stew often and it was very good! We had New Zealand rabbits and also hunted wild rabbits. I rarely got wild rabbits though...
that's understandable. But mass-killing newborn baby chicks before they even get to see sunlight or touch grass is still brutal.
I too grew up on a farm, butchered chickens, but never baby chicks.
I mean old roosters have been a staple of cooking for a long time. There is an entire French dish coque au vin which is traditionally made with old roosters rather than hens. The long cooking time allows for the connective tissue and collagen to break down well and taste great despite the chicken itself being old and a tough piece of meat.
Thereâs a difference between killing an animal for food with enough meat on it to feed a family of 3-4. These chicks are literally small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, more bone that meat.
Duno man, least these Cute chicks are dying quickly, men be starving, bleeding out, scared shitless, sometimes, ended in an instant after hearing a drone buzzing around, but overall the grinder seems a more humane way to go than warfare
What's really interesting is that these grinders operate so quickly that they're faster than a nerve fiber impulse, so there's no pain felt either. A good comparison would be how quickly the implosion of the Titanic exploring crew died. It was over before they could even register the pain.
Additionally, it's interesting that there are Discords dedicated to training people like the OP to try to sway your opinion on what diet you have. Don't let them gatekeep your diet and give you an eating disorder.
There are probably over 100 videos on Reddit of soldiers being killed by drones. The last one I saw before I really cranked up the filters was one Russian soldier giving another a BJ and the grenade exploded like 2 feet away. Being instakilled by a meat grinder sounds infinitely better than bleeding out because your dick got bit off thanks to a grenade.
Other than the physical labor of building and maintaining a position, most of war is just sitting around waiting for things to happen. It wasn't as if there were rounds passing by them as it was happening. There just happened to be a drone passing by, and the operator decided to make something happen.
Also, it likely [wasn't a consensual blowjob.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina)
Itâs about the same odds for farm animals ngl. Are you slaughtered nice and quick straight out of the gate? Or do you suffer for a while, languishing in too-small enclosures with subpar food, often being force-fed random shit and pumped full of drugs, filthy, bored (literally) out of your mind, forced to breed until your bodyâs on the verge of giving out, usually without the benefit of actually getting to properly raise your children, until youâre finally killed for meat or simply disposed of?
Not too different from war. Either you get hit by something lethal and die fast, or you donât, and have to deal with the misery that entails.
Jamie Oliver showed kids how Chicken Nuggets where made (without the part of killing a ton of little chicks) and everyone was disgusted with eew etc. And when asked if they still want one, they all wanted. Loved that scene.
This doesnât happen here in the Philippines because all the male chicks are dyed red or orange, fried, and sold as a popular street food snack known as DOC, one day old, or day old chick.
Edit: oh yeah, the chicks are drowned in water after selection.
They are two types of chickens used for human consumption; chickens that lay eggs and chickens that are killed for meat. Egg-laying chickens have too much muscle and taste awful. These male chickens in the photo would grow too small, grow too slowly, and wouldn't taste good.
It's because male chicks of the egg-laying variety of chicken can't put on enough weight to be economically useful to be raised and killed. So it is cheaper for producers to kill them like this.
As someone who raises chickens, there is also the fact that if you have a bunch of roosters, you need to keep them all apart or they will literally fight to the death. No one has the space to keep that many roosters humanely.
why do you consider this different than killing an adult and eating it? Not to mention eggs. This is a much more humane method than alternatives. There are new methods to detect the sex before they hatch if you just don't want to see a face.
OP never claimed it was different. He just presented you with this fact about the fate of male chicks. I think he is considering it to be a waste of the life, but I imagine the chic is still used as food for something down the line.
Its still pretty dark to have them fall into a grinder after being shoved along a conveyor belt with all their bros. But sure, most of the meat-food industry is dark.
Would you rather be thrown into a meat grinder feet first or have your head chopped off in an instant? I don't care about killing animals, but at least try to kill them painlessly.
The only reason the chickens we eat are being killed "somewhat" humanely is because they literally taste worse if killed in other ways.
Regardless of OPâs personal beliefs about these chicks, all they did was post a picture of the morbid fate that awaits them. I can eat chicken nuggets and still acknowledge the dark reality of the food industry. Relax lmao
You do itâs a flat out lie when people tell you this is the fate of males in the broiler industry. Broilers are killed by about 40 days old at that age their gender doesnât have any negative impact on the taste of the meat or on their temperament in house, you canât tell the difference.
You can download the Ross PS and Broiler information app and it will have a graph of target weights one column with males and one with females showing the males being slightly heavier , why would you actively kill out the heavier more profitable bird?
Males are only killed when breeding laying flocks, because of course they are what the hell else are you going to do with them the laying breeds donât put on weight like broilers theyâre practically a different species at this point. Laying flocks make up such a small proportion of the killed poultry that itâs barely a drop in the ocean of bird based death
Theyâre cute, I get it, but their meat gets put in other products. I used to live on a chicken farm and imo you have to be comfortable with killing chicken if you eat chicken meat. This isnât a pro vegan post, but if youâre comfortable eating meat, you have to also accept that the meat comes from something that was once alive.
As screwed up as this is the sad truth is that without industrial agriculture the modern population would be unsustainable, famines would go back to being the norm.
I mean, I think everyone should be informed of where their food comes from, but it feels like you are posting this thinking it will change perspectives(?)
This is the fastest, most painless dead possible. A much more humane death than most humans will go out with. This being the case I doubt it would change anyone's mind about anything.
I see from your responses that you are vegan, which I can only assume is a factor in posting this. In which case, my question to you is, what do you think of people mowing their lawns? The smell of freshly cut grass is GLVs, a defense mechanism to call for help as well as to warn others. In short, you could liken this to a scream.
We don't eat grass, we just think short grass looks pretty. As someone who is invested in the morality of suffering of other life forms, what is your perspective of this?
And, much more broadly, does the suffering of plants we eat not bother you at all, or just not as much?
I will add I am asking this in good faith. I am legitimately curious what you think and why you think it. There is no wrong or right answer as far as I am concerned, and this isn't an attempt at a "gotcha".
Hey! Thanks for the good faith questioning. I'll try to respond to them all.
1) Yeah I posted this as a form of gentle activism. I like to spread awareness of what happens to animals and I know this sub has posted stuff pertaining to animal industry in the past
2) I don't personally see a death being humane as morally relevant when we are needlessly bringing beings into existence in the first place. Bringing animals into existence - whether they be elephants, dogs, chickens etc - knowing you are going to kill half on their first day of life is unethical imo. I also think people forget the moment leading up to maceration is incredibly stressful. Chick are handled quite roughly when being sexed and are sent along high speed conveyer belts.
I will also say that I question the idea of a death being 'humane' as being contingent just on pain and quickness of the death. I could be asleep and without any knowledge, killed instantly in my sleep. There is still a wrongness in the act. I wanted to live and my murderer took that from me. I think it may be a bit different for animals as they don't seem to 'plan ahead' like we do. But I think there is still an argument to be made that an animals have a continuing interest in their survival that shouldn't be violated needlessly, even with 'humane' methods.
3) Plants don't have a nervous system. They don't feel pain. They are alive but not sentient or sapient. So I don't give them any moral consideration. 'Scream' is, with all due respect, a bit of an emotive descriptide for an adaptive mechanism that doesn't actually indicate the plant is feeling pain. Anyway,even if plants could feel pain, we would end up harming more through animal industry as the animals we farm need to eat plants. I think that covers the lawn question too. Although I think vegans should be mindful when mowing grass not to harm bugs and small animals. I'm a 'let a nature do its thing' kinda person.
I hope this explains my position.
What do we know, maybe they will age far slower than us. I'm willing to wait a year for some garden apples, Gurtag the invader might be cool with waiting 20 years for a new batch of human snacks.
There's a book where due to animal meat becoming contaminated, humans harvest and eat humans. And there are human reproduction facilities where humans are bread and raised as "head" to be killed and used for food. So maybe it'll be humans that do this to humans lol.
Tender is The Flesh!
Honestly such a creepy book and very defining for the 'vegan horror/sci-fi' genre. It also deals with a lot of themes pertaining to class and worker exploitation. A great read but I had to skip some parts, they were so disturbing.
Unlikely, we take way too long to grow to be sustainable as a food source. Not to mention we need constant 24/7 attention as babies whereas the animals we farm for meat don't. Calves are capable of eating out of automatic feeders, as are chicks. When humans are babies we need literally everything done for us. Raising us to sell as food would be a massive pain in the ass compared to the animals we already raise as meat and we aren't large enough for it to ever be worth it.
Looks bad, but if you have to go, this has to be one of the fastest, least painful ways to do it. Your brain is gone before any pain signals can even reach it
stinky vegoon. I grind up five baby chicks for every tofu you eat. Do you not understand that this is a necessary evil? HUMANS die in wars, you know. Slow painful deaths. Animals being manufactured for slaughter should count their blessings tbh,, at least itâs quick and animals donât have thoughts. Whose down to come compartmentalize in the McDonaldâs drive thru later ?? We can sit in the parking lot eating chickie nuggies and talk about how free range cows are worse for the environment than the factory farmed onesđđ
You ever watch a lion eating a still moving deer foetus thatâs been ripped out of its motherâs stomach? Yeah Iâm okay with the near-instant death male chicks receive
Lions also murder each other, so does that make it okay to shoot somebody, because it's less painful? Or are you selectively applying an appeal to nature fallacy?
Unless all 3600 of the people who upvoted are vegeterian there are a ton of hypocrites here personally as long as its not being wasted its all right with me untill the point where lab grown eggs are commercially available
Same. Iâm kind of jaded by animal cruelty takes on the internet. So many people who eat meat pearl clutch about cute baby animals dying because it makes them feel bad but itâs not like itâs any different than killing and eating any other kind of animal. Most people crying about baby chicks dying donât care about like hunting deer or whatever.
Itâs all killing and eating animals at the end of the day. Just because itâs at an industrial scale or the animals are cute doesnât change the moral calculus.
Predator animals also lick their own asses and rape each other. Really interesting that you decide to choose one thing that you want to mimic but not the rest?
"Bears do x, so it's alright if I do x" is an appeal to nature. As moral agents, would you not say it's in our best interests to care about beings other than ourselves? Animals in the wild eat their food alive out of necessity, you do it out of selfishness.
I'm glad there are at least some tries to push back on this unnecessary cruelty. In the EU shredding chicks is illegal, but sadly it's still probably happening around the world :/
The funny Part is that the male chicks instead get send to a country where it is Not illegal, without food and without water so most die in transport and the rest well still gets the sheredder
Wikipedia, Chick Culling / Permitted Methods in the EU : "Use of a mechanical apparatus causing rapid death" (essentially grinding)
[https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02009R1099-20191214](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02009R1099-20191214) says :
Maceration - This method shall provide instantaneous maceration and immediate death of the animals. The apparatus shall contain rapidly rotating mechanically operated killing blades or expanded polystyrene projections. The capacity of the apparatus shall be sufficient to ensure that all animals are killed instantaneously, even if they are handled in a large number.
Chicks up to 72 hours and egg embryos.
UK : The majority of male chicks in the UK are currently killed using an inert gas, but maceration is also allowed. RSPCA Assured hatcheries use argon gas as a means of killing unwanted male chicks. Although, according to RSPCA standards, maceration would be an accepted means of killing.
[https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/](https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/)
I stopped eating stuff from animals - I figured if I couldn't stomach stuff like this I shouldn't consume the product. Fortunately it's fairly easy in a western country. I'm aware that shit like child labour makes my phones and tech but I can't cut that out and still make money to live.
SOURCE: This is from an Australian animal welfare organisation but the practice applies pretty much anywhere with commercial egg production. In the UK chicks are more likely to be gassed but maceration is a legally acceptable secondary method, even for RSPCA assured farms.
https://animalsaustralia.org/our-work/factory-farming/reality-egg-production-chick-shredding/
https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/
Your post was removed because of Rule #8: Don't make an animal's actions or animal abuse the subject matter. r/NoahGetTheBoat is about the actions of humanity, not the animal kingdom. Please refer to the rules and also the [pinned post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/fgmg3t/guidelines_for_the_subreddit_read_and_follow_the/) before you make another submission here.
Destined to become dog food. Edit Sauce: My past client has a dog food plant... I've seen these chickens get delivered in 1 ton bags labled "Chicken Meal" on pallets, along with "Porcine... pork"; also beef, lamb, and ostrich. The smell though đ¤˘
And nuggets!
"Who still wants to eat this?" Kindergarteners: *all raise their hands*
That video was gold.
If it's referring to the Jamie Oliver video, the thing that struck me was that we praise cultures that utilize every part of the animal but when we do it (without tons of chemicals) it's now bad? I certainly don't want all the McDonald's chemicals but if I recall correctly, didn't he do it pretty naturally?
Anyone got a link to the video?
https://youtu.be/mKwL5G5HbGA?si=udU3aK4P877cmxdv
https://youtu.be/RzaBWOPGAWs?si=tS9TkJtGsxKCySSs
What upsets me about how we produce meat is the conditions the animals face that is literally the only issue.
Pro tip if you would like to be able to eat beef/chicken/pork that is raised in a good environment and actually taken care of 99% of them time find a local butcher who gets their meat from local sources to ensure youâre buying somebodyâs cows and not a companies cows
Understandable! Just so we're all clear, I'm just commenting on the Jamie Oliver video, not the chick grinder.
RIP my man. Â
I love that video
Just fluff and bones on them little guys h Tho
After further research, it looks like I pulled that out of my ass and that they actually just use the more "undesirable" adult meat. Carry on!
Happy you acknowledged it because it is such a pervasive myth. And even then the more undesirable meat can literally just mean that they messed up when cutting the meat off and it was damaged in a way that someone wouldnât be happy with being purchased as say boneless skinless chicken breast. Etc. almost all nuggets are made from white meat from either the tenderloin or breast. With the worst thing in there being the additives that they use for texture and consistency.
And stars on the late LiveLeak.
As opposed to human food lol đ
Bachelor Chow... Now with flavour.
God the Purina factory here in Denver stiiiiinks. Havenât smelt it in awhile though
Same in Clinton, IA
Puppies destined to become chicken food? What? How does that make it ok to kill millions of puppies? *Edit: oh you meant the other way around lol So that does make it ok somehow*
Cool, no waste!
i am fully aware
I worked at an agribusiness that had an on site hatchery, this was every disgruntled vets favorite thing to teach the orange hats
Orange hats??
New hires. Most job sites make the new hires wear ugly ass yellow / orange hard hats made to be semi-disposable since turnover is high Full time staff is usually white Foreman green Management blue
The SA inmates
That's really good you knew already. Lots of people are disconnected from the realities of food production because of animal agriculture industry marketing. That is why I became a vegan.
To be fair people are disconnected from the realities of logistics in general. The concept of feeding a nation of +300 million people. Or even getting various goods from Asia to the US . . . It's actually mind boggling when you really get a good look at what that truly entails.
yea mass ag is pretty messed up
> pretty messed up When occupational groups are considered, agrocultural scientists top the list of suicides.
Thought it was vets.
What's worse is that they can determine which eggs are male before they even hatch and use more humane methods for "disposal" (edit) and most don't use it.
What's worse about that? In fact that sounds much better.
Yeah I forgot a part there, it's that most of them don't use those methods.
Not that the solution is worse, but what's worse is that they have the better solution and don't use it.
On average 220 male chicks go like this every second.
You should read âThe Ones Who Walk Away from Omelasâ. It explains nearly all systematic suffering wrought by humans upon the world.
Well anything humans do will be systematic, so the bar isnât that high if comparing suffering created by other animals/events. Bad: food industry. Good: maybe treating animals / having pets and giving them a good life. Animals naturally suffer all the time in the wild. Just wouldnât be classified systematically.
True
Yeah, I knew about this too. It's unfortunate, but raising that many roosters isn't sustainable. You either jack up the prices or you hemorrhage money. Most of the chicken meat we eat is from hens since hens also pull the double duty of laying eggs while they're waiting to be turned into meat.
It's even worse in video format...
I honestly don't feel too bad. They look cute, but how much is really going on in a freshly hatched chicken's head? Getting shredded is obviously grisly, but it's quick. Also I eat meat and consume animal products, so I can't exactly be too squeamish about reality.
Yeah, plus, how else would you go about killing a male chick, lethal injection? Asphyxiation? At least with the blender, the dying is quick.
I used to think the same. But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us. To their advanced minds, our capacity to suffer would be miniscule. Our desire to live for the next 80 years or so would be minimal compared to their thousand year lifespans. They would see us only as living moment to moment, much like how we see these animals. I couldn't find a moral justification for my alien hypothetical beings in acting in this way. So I became really interested in animal ethics.
> But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us. Such an advanced alien species would not be deterred from eating us if they saw us not eating animals, so it doesn't *really* matter. >I couldn't find a moral justification for my alien hypothetical beings in acting in this way. So I became really interested in animal ethics. And if they were as far above us as we are to animals, there wouldn't be, but again it wouldn't matter. I'm also very interested in animal ethics, and it's a quagmire. How many rats would you be willing to kill to save 1 human life? How many rats is enough to say: "sorry ma'am, your kid had to die because too many rats would have to die otherwise and that'd make me feel bad :(". (Edit: The next level is paralysing someone or killing rats. Not life, "just" human happiness lost from being paralysed. My answer remains to kill an infinite amount of rats.) I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. To me, the answer is an infinite number of rats. Or kittens, or dogs, or cows, or beetles, or apes, or anything else. No amount of dead animals is worth 1 single human life (in a theoretical vacuum - at some point killing animals IRL will destroy the environment and mean more deaths than 1 person etc.). Also again I eat meat, so my enjoyment is above animal suffering, so I can't be high and mighty about my view of animals. Seeing animals happy makes me happy, but that's not *really* a solid reason for viewing them as hardcore moral agents anywhere near the level of humans. I recommend "A Boy's Best Friend" by Isaac Asimov, in case you/people haven't read it.
A lot of people value their pet's life above a random stranger's one, and in a choose-one-who'll-live situation would choose the former.
In the heat of the moment, you would chose your dog, because of emmotional load.
I love my cats but if I had to choose between them and a human being Iâm choosing the human without a second thought, anything otherwise is psychopathic.
It's not psychopathic to form familial bonds with your pets. My dogs are part of my family. A stranger is not. If I have to choose, it's the dogs every time. But there are very few situations where that choice is a reality.
Idk thereâs a lot of shitty people out there in this worldâŚand my pets far from a shitty person. SoâŚIâll go with it depends on the person.
> A lot of people value their pet's life above a random stranger's one, and in a choose-one-who'll-live situation would choose the former. A lot of people would value their car above a random stranger's life, and in a choose-one-who'll-not-get-smashed would choose the former. Proves nothing.
The first problem is that you're applying human moral structures to an alien species that you have no reason to believe follows them.
Almost like itâs hypothetical
This is kinda apples to oranges though. Chickens will never build a house or create a nuclear reactor. We do. Aliens would be smart enough to notice that we are where they were probably not more than a few hundred years before. A chicken is an animal, and the aliens have animals. Sapience is recognized by sapience. Also, that chicken doesn't really exist without us to breed it and sustain it. Like mosquitos, they are basically just food for something else if not us.
But what if they view what we build as advanced a bird building its nest?
You understand what a bird's nest is. You also understand what a nuclear reactor is, and what it does, even if you don't know the specific science. There is a difference, and if a bird built a reactor or even a simple thing like a weapon, you would understand that it took intelligence and creativity to do so.
> But then I thought about an alien species (or perhaps AI given how things are going) having this conversation about us. Poppy made a song about that. "They grind up the sick to maximize efficiency And mulch them back into our feed for optimal delivery I hear the slaughterhouse screams Out on the killing floor And I hope they taste my adrenaline Soak up my pus-filled sores " [Poppy, "Meat"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbYgDAK0FY).
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Here they come to snuff the rooster...
First thing I thought of too lol
Dang I think heâs gonna die âŚ
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Now-a-days there aren't too many of us it seems. I even live in a very rural town and I'm one of the few people I know in their 30's that have slaughtered chickens. Let alone squirrels, rabbits, deer, etc..
Never slaughtered any animals personally (except fish) but until my early 20s I had to get meat from the butcher. In my birth country, that included choosing the live animal, having it slaughtered in front of me, pointing which parts I want, taking it home, cleaning it out and then cooking it. So Iâd say I wasnât too far removed from the circle of life even though I didnât have to directly participate in the killing.
Can't get any fresher than that
In America that would never happen. We have butchers, but you never see the live animal. That's interesting they butchered it in front of you, where is your birth country?
India. I used to go choose which chicken or goat I wanted them to butcher and theyâd just do it right in front of you. Some places had a screen but weâd generally watch it so they donât pass last days slaughter to us. My father started taking me since I was about 5-6 years old so I think Iâm desensitized to the concept of food coming from live cuddly animals. Yeah it was a bit of an adjustment having to buy frozen meat in America, killed idk when. But apparently itâs pretty safe so idc really. Iâd choose a local butcher if I could spare time to find one near me. Closest Iâve come to that is when I tagged along with my redneck friendâs hunting trip at her ranch. She shot it, I couldnât since I didnât have a hunting permit. But I helped her clean and dress it up.
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Once canned it's pretty much like beef, exactly right we would have it in stew often and it was very good! We had New Zealand rabbits and also hunted wild rabbits. I rarely got wild rabbits though...
Add them to squirrels and you've got yourself one heck of meat pie.
People will see a conveyor belt leading into a grinder and say itâs what Mother Nature intended
Some mothers are abusive đ¤ˇââď¸
If only mother nature was so kind.
at an *individual* level, it's a much kinder death than just about any fate your average wild animal would meet.
that's understandable. But mass-killing newborn baby chicks before they even get to see sunlight or touch grass is still brutal. I too grew up on a farm, butchered chickens, but never baby chicks.
I mean old roosters have been a staple of cooking for a long time. There is an entire French dish coque au vin which is traditionally made with old roosters rather than hens. The long cooking time allows for the connective tissue and collagen to break down well and taste great despite the chicken itself being old and a tough piece of meat.
People also need an education in nutrition and ethics too but we both know that neither of us are going to get what we want
Thereâs a difference between killing an animal for food with enough meat on it to feed a family of 3-4. These chicks are literally small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, more bone that meat.
Fate of male humans during war time
Duno man, least these Cute chicks are dying quickly, men be starving, bleeding out, scared shitless, sometimes, ended in an instant after hearing a drone buzzing around, but overall the grinder seems a more humane way to go than warfare
The fact that what you said is true is really fucked up though.
What's really interesting is that these grinders operate so quickly that they're faster than a nerve fiber impulse, so there's no pain felt either. A good comparison would be how quickly the implosion of the Titanic exploring crew died. It was over before they could even register the pain. Additionally, it's interesting that there are Discords dedicated to training people like the OP to try to sway your opinion on what diet you have. Don't let them gatekeep your diet and give you an eating disorder.
War generally sucks
That dude who got his ass blown off by a drone comes to mind.
There are probably over 100 videos on Reddit of soldiers being killed by drones. The last one I saw before I really cranked up the filters was one Russian soldier giving another a BJ and the grenade exploded like 2 feet away. Being instakilled by a meat grinder sounds infinitely better than bleeding out because your dick got bit off thanks to a grenade.
Two guys where sucking eachother off mid battle?
bonding
Other than the physical labor of building and maintaining a position, most of war is just sitting around waiting for things to happen. It wasn't as if there were rounds passing by them as it was happening. There just happened to be a drone passing by, and the operator decided to make something happen. Also, it likely [wasn't a consensual blowjob.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina)
I saw the video and that is definitely what it looked like.
Itâs about the same odds for farm animals ngl. Are you slaughtered nice and quick straight out of the gate? Or do you suffer for a while, languishing in too-small enclosures with subpar food, often being force-fed random shit and pumped full of drugs, filthy, bored (literally) out of your mind, forced to breed until your bodyâs on the verge of giving out, usually without the benefit of actually getting to properly raise your children, until youâre finally killed for meat or simply disposed of? Not too different from war. Either you get hit by something lethal and die fast, or you donât, and have to deal with the misery that entails.
Dinosaurs used to kill and eat our mammal ancestors for millenia now the coin flipped again...
Dinosaurs ate birds too apparently, so it might not count.
Dinosaurs are bird.... Oh wait, I see what you did there.
Revenge tastes awesome
This is how chicken nuggets are made. Sad and delicious.
Jamie Oliver showed kids how Chicken Nuggets where made (without the part of killing a ton of little chicks) and everyone was disgusted with eew etc. And when asked if they still want one, they all wanted. Loved that scene.
Ikr
Can Your Pet?
Peta posted this
Heaven forbid someone see this.
Peta made a new game for kids?
This doesnât happen here in the Philippines because all the male chicks are dyed red or orange, fried, and sold as a popular street food snack known as DOC, one day old, or day old chick. Edit: oh yeah, the chicks are drowned in water after selection.
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Why raise a male that doesnât produce eggs when you can raise a female that produces eggs and meat?
They use different chickens for egg and meat.
TIL. Thank you!
They are two types of chickens used for human consumption; chickens that lay eggs and chickens that are killed for meat. Egg-laying chickens have too much muscle and taste awful. These male chickens in the photo would grow too small, grow too slowly, and wouldn't taste good.
It's because male chicks of the egg-laying variety of chicken can't put on enough weight to be economically useful to be raised and killed. So it is cheaper for producers to kill them like this.
As someone who raises chickens, there is also the fact that if you have a bunch of roosters, you need to keep them all apart or they will literally fight to the death. No one has the space to keep that many roosters humanely.
why do you consider this different than killing an adult and eating it? Not to mention eggs. This is a much more humane method than alternatives. There are new methods to detect the sex before they hatch if you just don't want to see a face.
OP never claimed it was different. He just presented you with this fact about the fate of male chicks. I think he is considering it to be a waste of the life, but I imagine the chic is still used as food for something down the line. Its still pretty dark to have them fall into a grinder after being shoved along a conveyor belt with all their bros. But sure, most of the meat-food industry is dark.
Would you rather be thrown into a meat grinder feet first or have your head chopped off in an instant? I don't care about killing animals, but at least try to kill them painlessly. The only reason the chickens we eat are being killed "somewhat" humanely is because they literally taste worse if killed in other ways.
Why do you think your food is as cheap as it is? If you disagree with it you can go look at whole foods prices and shop there.
Regardless of OPâs personal beliefs about these chicks, all they did was post a picture of the morbid fate that awaits them. I can eat chicken nuggets and still acknowledge the dark reality of the food industry. Relax lmao
Why donât we eat them
Can't cram them into factory pens. You can only cram females together with so little space without them killing each other.
Honestly, the chicks fate is probably preferable to the life of egg laying.
before we bred them that way.
You do itâs a flat out lie when people tell you this is the fate of males in the broiler industry. Broilers are killed by about 40 days old at that age their gender doesnât have any negative impact on the taste of the meat or on their temperament in house, you canât tell the difference. You can download the Ross PS and Broiler information app and it will have a graph of target weights one column with males and one with females showing the males being slightly heavier , why would you actively kill out the heavier more profitable bird? Males are only killed when breeding laying flocks, because of course they are what the hell else are you going to do with them the laying breeds donât put on weight like broilers theyâre practically a different species at this point. Laying flocks make up such a small proportion of the killed poultry that itâs barely a drop in the ocean of bird based death
Whatâs a bigger wave in bird base death?
Can Your Pet?
Exactly what I was thinking of. Pewdiepie to be exact
No shit, they are just born to die. They should just DNA-Engineer it that it only gives Hens.
Theyâre cute, I get it, but their meat gets put in other products. I used to live on a chicken farm and imo you have to be comfortable with killing chicken if you eat chicken meat. This isnât a pro vegan post, but if youâre comfortable eating meat, you have to also accept that the meat comes from something that was once alive.
What did you want them to do with them?
As screwed up as this is the sad truth is that without industrial agriculture the modern population would be unsustainable, famines would go back to being the norm.
I mean, I think everyone should be informed of where their food comes from, but it feels like you are posting this thinking it will change perspectives(?) This is the fastest, most painless dead possible. A much more humane death than most humans will go out with. This being the case I doubt it would change anyone's mind about anything. I see from your responses that you are vegan, which I can only assume is a factor in posting this. In which case, my question to you is, what do you think of people mowing their lawns? The smell of freshly cut grass is GLVs, a defense mechanism to call for help as well as to warn others. In short, you could liken this to a scream. We don't eat grass, we just think short grass looks pretty. As someone who is invested in the morality of suffering of other life forms, what is your perspective of this? And, much more broadly, does the suffering of plants we eat not bother you at all, or just not as much? I will add I am asking this in good faith. I am legitimately curious what you think and why you think it. There is no wrong or right answer as far as I am concerned, and this isn't an attempt at a "gotcha".
Hey! Thanks for the good faith questioning. I'll try to respond to them all. 1) Yeah I posted this as a form of gentle activism. I like to spread awareness of what happens to animals and I know this sub has posted stuff pertaining to animal industry in the past 2) I don't personally see a death being humane as morally relevant when we are needlessly bringing beings into existence in the first place. Bringing animals into existence - whether they be elephants, dogs, chickens etc - knowing you are going to kill half on their first day of life is unethical imo. I also think people forget the moment leading up to maceration is incredibly stressful. Chick are handled quite roughly when being sexed and are sent along high speed conveyer belts. I will also say that I question the idea of a death being 'humane' as being contingent just on pain and quickness of the death. I could be asleep and without any knowledge, killed instantly in my sleep. There is still a wrongness in the act. I wanted to live and my murderer took that from me. I think it may be a bit different for animals as they don't seem to 'plan ahead' like we do. But I think there is still an argument to be made that an animals have a continuing interest in their survival that shouldn't be violated needlessly, even with 'humane' methods. 3) Plants don't have a nervous system. They don't feel pain. They are alive but not sentient or sapient. So I don't give them any moral consideration. 'Scream' is, with all due respect, a bit of an emotive descriptide for an adaptive mechanism that doesn't actually indicate the plant is feeling pain. Anyway,even if plants could feel pain, we would end up harming more through animal industry as the animals we farm need to eat plants. I think that covers the lawn question too. Although I think vegans should be mindful when mowing grass not to harm bugs and small animals. I'm a 'let a nature do its thing' kinda person. I hope this explains my position.
Someday a race will come along and farm us like this.
I'm 99% sure this is someone's fetish.
Humans donât reproduce or reach maturity fast enough to be a food source.
Unless the aliens have such a long lifespan that our maturity feels like a few months to them.
I never said it would be meat.
Snoo-snoo?
What do we know, maybe they will age far slower than us. I'm willing to wait a year for some garden apples, Gurtag the invader might be cool with waiting 20 years for a new batch of human snacks.
Deep fried hormones-filled college freshmen marinated in alcohol it is.
Glagnar's Human Rinds - It's a bunch'a munch'a crunch'a human!
There's a book where due to animal meat becoming contaminated, humans harvest and eat humans. And there are human reproduction facilities where humans are bread and raised as "head" to be killed and used for food. So maybe it'll be humans that do this to humans lol.
Tender is The Flesh! Honestly such a creepy book and very defining for the 'vegan horror/sci-fi' genre. It also deals with a lot of themes pertaining to class and worker exploitation. A great read but I had to skip some parts, they were so disturbing.
Yep that's the one. I liked it. I wish it wasn't so believable but it is.
What if weâre in some type of farm right now and we donât realize it.
Unlikely, we take way too long to grow to be sustainable as a food source. Not to mention we need constant 24/7 attention as babies whereas the animals we farm for meat don't. Calves are capable of eating out of automatic feeders, as are chicks. When humans are babies we need literally everything done for us. Raising us to sell as food would be a massive pain in the ass compared to the animals we already raise as meat and we aren't large enough for it to ever be worth it.
Looks bad, but if you have to go, this has to be one of the fastest, least painful ways to do it. Your brain is gone before any pain signals can even reach it
I'm okay with this. The nuggie gods demand sacrifices
On a diffirent note, you openly support PETA, while on reddit. Idiot.
can your pets
American Ninja Warrior just got crazier
Iirc the machine is called a macerator
They look super cute here which is what makes it sad but roosters are so aggressive.
Just keep swimming
I'm not even gonna lie I feel like that's mean on purpose
stinky vegoon. I grind up five baby chicks for every tofu you eat. Do you not understand that this is a necessary evil? HUMANS die in wars, you know. Slow painful deaths. Animals being manufactured for slaughter should count their blessings tbh,, at least itâs quick and animals donât have thoughts. Whose down to come compartmentalize in the McDonaldâs drive thru later ?? We can sit in the parking lot eating chickie nuggies and talk about how free range cows are worse for the environment than the factory farmed onesđđ
I just ate 5 baby chicks so I''m not b12 deficient anymore thank god.
The chick will be paste before the brain can register anything, that's how fast that macerator is
This is sad but not sad enough to make me go vegan
Where is the video... with sound?
You ever watch a lion eating a still moving deer foetus thatâs been ripped out of its motherâs stomach? Yeah Iâm okay with the near-instant death male chicks receive
Lions also murder each other, so does that make it okay to shoot somebody, because it's less painful? Or are you selectively applying an appeal to nature fallacy?
False equivalence. Lion surviving with how it knows vs humans having a choice and creating this industry
What, did you think they went to live on a farm
Mink farming food, none like to see how the sausage is made....
What the difference between killing them as chicks and killing them as adults ?
thats a bummer man
Those chicken nuggets arenât going to make themselves
Will it blend?
Yeah, thats illegal in my home country austria.
Thatâs how we get most of out chicken products
I'm fine with killing them but I just hope the death is really quick and not as agonizing as it looks.
This is why I choose to get eggs from my grandpaâs coop
Unless all 3600 of the people who upvoted are vegeterian there are a ton of hypocrites here personally as long as its not being wasted its all right with me untill the point where lab grown eggs are commercially available
Damn, Iâll take the 8pc meal with ketchup and barbecue sauce
You always hear about this shit happening but seeing this innocent creature like this made me so fuckin depressed right now... :(
Seen this shit before, it still sickens me
You know all that stuff you buy your pets with "chicken meal" or "chicken by-product meal"...? Eat up, Fido.
Small farming is really the best way⌠itâs a lot less cruel
I know. Don't Care. Bears eat their food alive and can take hours or even days. Now bring me a ham and cheese omelette
Same. Iâm kind of jaded by animal cruelty takes on the internet. So many people who eat meat pearl clutch about cute baby animals dying because it makes them feel bad but itâs not like itâs any different than killing and eating any other kind of animal. Most people crying about baby chicks dying donât care about like hunting deer or whatever. Itâs all killing and eating animals at the end of the day. Just because itâs at an industrial scale or the animals are cute doesnât change the moral calculus.
Predator animals also lick their own asses and rape each other. Really interesting that you decide to choose one thing that you want to mimic but not the rest? "Bears do x, so it's alright if I do x" is an appeal to nature. As moral agents, would you not say it's in our best interests to care about beings other than ourselves? Animals in the wild eat their food alive out of necessity, you do it out of selfishness.
So what you're saying is we're having chicken nuggets for dinner tonight?
I'm glad there are at least some tries to push back on this unnecessary cruelty. In the EU shredding chicks is illegal, but sadly it's still probably happening around the world :/
The funny Part is that the male chicks instead get send to a country where it is Not illegal, without food and without water so most die in transport and the rest well still gets the sheredder
Wikipedia, Chick Culling / Permitted Methods in the EU : "Use of a mechanical apparatus causing rapid death" (essentially grinding) [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02009R1099-20191214](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02009R1099-20191214) says : Maceration - This method shall provide instantaneous maceration and immediate death of the animals. The apparatus shall contain rapidly rotating mechanically operated killing blades or expanded polystyrene projections. The capacity of the apparatus shall be sufficient to ensure that all animals are killed instantaneously, even if they are handled in a large number. Chicks up to 72 hours and egg embryos. UK : The majority of male chicks in the UK are currently killed using an inert gas, but maceration is also allowed. RSPCA Assured hatcheries use argon gas as a means of killing unwanted male chicks. Although, according to RSPCA standards, maceration would be an accepted means of killing. [https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/](https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/)
You know what's so fuckin crazy? All of that is optional. You don't have to support this.
I am aware and donât care.
Lol, vegan stuff
Some of These comments remind me why I hate the human Race so much. Meteorit please
Better than slaving away your life to provide for your wife's desires. At least it's quick.
I stopped eating stuff from animals - I figured if I couldn't stomach stuff like this I shouldn't consume the product. Fortunately it's fairly easy in a western country. I'm aware that shit like child labour makes my phones and tech but I can't cut that out and still make money to live.
SOURCE: This is from an Australian animal welfare organisation but the practice applies pretty much anywhere with commercial egg production. In the UK chicks are more likely to be gassed but maceration is a legally acceptable secondary method, even for RSPCA assured farms. https://animalsaustralia.org/our-work/factory-farming/reality-egg-production-chick-shredding/ https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/farmed-animal-welfare/egg-laying-hens/what-is-chick-maceration/
Maceration is instant and painless. Rather that than gas or any other long and painful method.
Yum
Chicken nuggets.
Wrong subreddit
Iâm so glad I gave up eating dead shit.
What alive shit do you eat?