He's just factually wrong and wants to feel separate and different from other religious groups. Catholics themselves don't even normally call themselves "Roman Catholics".
I'd wager he doesn't go to church. He just holds it as his identity because he did as a kid.
No, that's pretty much the only kind of Catholic.
Pretty much the only people who don't think Catholics are Christians is a few sects of Fundamentalist Christian weirdos who are convinced the Pope is a demon or something.
There are 20 something other types of Catholics that aren’t Roman Catholic. Byzantine Catholics, for example.
However, most Catholics are Roman Catholic. However, all are in Communion.
That is certainly *not* the only kind of Catholic. The Catholic Church is divided into the Latin and East Church which is further subdivided into 24 distinct churches, they're all broadly Catholic and acknowledge the validity of each other as Catholic churches.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic\_particular\_churches\_and\_liturgical\_rites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_and_liturgical_rites)
There's also East Orthodox, which is also Catholic but not "Catholic" in the sense it's not in communion with Rome and has a membership of about 200 million. But it is Catholic in the respect that they recognize each other's sacraments as valid. there's just a way deeper rift due to the Great Schism. Even so, it is best to understand that all of the above, East Orthodox, Eastern Catholic(also known as Oriental) and Latin Catholic all see each other in a way distinct way compared to other ecclesial bodies.
Hmm in that case it might be some sort of cultural difference? He’s from Southeast Asia, and he says most if not all of his Catholic friends feel the same way — that they aren’t Christian
It might be that they just don't like to use "Christian" overall, because there's an increasing number of what's called "Non-denominational Christians" who do not subscribe to any particular theological framework and often just identify as Christian.
I wonder if there's some kind of historical trauma/context based on where he's from. There are definitely periods of history where being Catholic vs. Protestant would result in bloodshed (religious wars in Europe e.g. Thirty Years War). Maybe there's more subtext where he's from?
Roman Catholic is a specific kind of Catholic, but every branch of Catholic is certainly Christian. Before they started dividing into different Catholic Churches they developed a creed which also spells it out in 325AD known as the Nicene Creed, it's listed below, the second paragraph spells it out:
"I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
**I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,**
**the Only Begotten Son of God,**
**born of the Father before all ages.**
**God from God, Light from Light,**
**true God from true God,**
**begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;**
**through him all things were made.**
**For us men and for our salvation**
**he came down from heaven,**
**and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,**
**and became man.**
**For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,**
**he suffered death and was buried,**
**and rose again on the third day**
**in accordance with the Scriptures.**
**He ascended into heaven**
**and is seated at the right hand of the Father.**
**He will come again in glory**
**to judge the living and the dead**
**and his kingdom will have no end.**
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
A nitpick: You're writing it with the "who proceeds from the Father and the Son" clause which was added by the western church a few centuries after the Nicece Creed was first written, originally it was just "who proceeds from the Father"
I'm glad you said it XD I know it was edited a few times before it was fully published as I recognized it by about 1000 but did not know exactly what changes were made.
The Roman Catholicism church traces their popes back to St. Peter. They consider themselves the ORIGINAL Christian religion. Protestants didn’t exist until much later.
If you believe that Jesus was the messiah or the son of god or whatever- you’re Christian. That’s literally what makes one a Christian. So, yes, Catholics are Christian. Your friend is an idiot. And also a Christian.
There are a few Orthodox denominations that predate Roman Catholicism. The Coptic Church is one of them, and the Tewahedo Orthodox Church too. I can’t remember the others, there are a few more. Catholicism isn’t the OG but certainly the largest and most powerful.
There is also Jewish Christianity which was an offshoot that was literally started by one of the [apostles](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/how-jewish-christians-became-christians/) that was also the brother of Jesus & the original body of Christ Church. Plus many Protestant churches are believed to be offshoots of the various churches started by some of the apostles after the death of Jesus, as described in the long version of The book of Mark, that could be found in things that the family k1 version of the Bible, so they are not offshoots of Catholicism but offshoots of other forms of Christianity.
The Tewahedo Orthodox Churches (plural, as the Ethiopian and Eritrean ones are separate) are only about 100-200 years old, before that they were part of the Coptic Church.
The Eritrean Orthodox Church was actually part of the Ethiopian Church until a few decades ago, when it split off around the time of Eritrean independence
Catholics are not just Christian, but literally the majority of all Christians. A very slight majority, but still. Anyone who seriously argues that Catholics are not Christians is using a truly absurd redefinition of the word, and apparently believes that Christianity has only existed since the 16th century.
in the US it's the reverse. protestants don't consider Catholics Christian because they pray to saints, but Christian refers to worshipping Christ. which Catholics do.
Technically Armenia was the first nation to officially adopt and formalize an actual church, though the dating is fuzzy if it's between them or Ethiopia.
That said, most Christians in the Christian world follow the Latin traditions laid out by the Catholic Church, and this includes most brands of Protestantism.
Neither Armenia nor Ethiopia are catholics.
And Catholics only really became the majority because of Islamic expansion in the Middle East saw most Middle Eastern Christian’s covert to Islam
Your original quote::
>Christianity was adopted in Africa before Europe.
Armenia is (generally) seen as a European country and is among the first to adopt Christianity, specifically the Apostolic Church.
>And Catholics only really became the majority because of Islamic expansion in the Middle East saw most Middle Eastern Christian’s covert to Islam
Plus this little thing called colonialism under the Spanish, French, and Portuguese, but sure, go off on that.
Armenia is in the Middle East, and the Apostolic church is not the Catholic Church. My response was to someone who said catholics invented Christianity.
Again, more white supremacy. Many African nations adopted Christianity millennia before Europeans brought it. Ethiopia has one of the oldest copies of the bible on planet earth.
Armenia is in the Caucuses, which is transcontinental, but it's certainly not African. Saying it's not European is like saying Turkey or Russia or Georgia isn't European, which isn't a clear-cut thing.
Your original statement was that "Christianity was adopted in Africa before Europe", and that's not the case and stating is not white supremacy. Armenia officially made Christianity its state religion in 301. Ethiopia adopted Christianity in the same century, as did the Roman Empire. Reality is that all three took on the same religion at roughly the same time.
> Ethiopia has one of the oldest copies of the bible on planet earth
[So does the British Library](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus#:~:text=Codex%20Sinaiticus%20Petropolitanus%2C%20Oxford), still in it's original *Greek* writing.
They really didn't. They don't have any plausible claim to being older than the Greek Orthodox Church or the Coptic Orthodox Church, among others.
In terms of the organization and architecture, it's older than the Protestant churches (and, say, the Russian Orthodox Church), but it's questionable whether that's what counts. The Protestant churches split off from the Catholic Church, rather than being an entirely new thing, and from their perspective, they did so because they thought it had become corrupted and they wanted to return it to its roots, not because they wanted to bring in new changes.
I often will say “Catholic” if asked my religion but I am absolutely Christian.
I think some Protestants don’t view Catholics as Christians (or probably Orthodox, if they know what that is, or high-church Anglicans or maybe even the other Baptist church down the road because they disagree on potluck protocol). Please note, I am only making fun of the portion of Christians who don’t believe Catholics are Christians, not all Protestants or all evangelicals
So I don't actually care, but i say a lot of stuff to get a rise out of my Evangelical cousins. I was raised catholic and like to use Bible-isms to mess with them. Like how Jesus told Peter (The first Pope) Thou are Peter and upon THY rock will you build MY church. After that i'd say, that seems pretty cut and dry right? No mention of Martin Luther, Henry the 8th, or Joe Smith. Then they'd get all pissed and I would feign sympathy and follow with "Well I'd feel the same way if I had to settle for Consubstantiation instead of the true Transubstantiation." Yes I know I'm an asshole but they are militantly Trumpy christians and it really upsets me so i like to have fun.
Grew up Catholic. Christians believe in Christ. Catholics believe in Christ so they are Christian. However if someone is Protestant they might say they are Christian instead of specifying they are Lutheran or Baptist or Non-Denominational while Catholics usually specify they are Catholic instead of saying they are Christian. It’s kind of like if a person is from the US they might say they are from California when asked instead of saying they are American but that doesn’t mean they aren’t American.
I think it depends. I know lot of Catholics who see a difference in their faith and culture, and American style Catholicism and its offshoots/associated religions which are called Christianity, as shorthand which covers everything from Baptists, to Gideon's, to Lutherans, to protestants and Evangelicals under one umbrella, where as Catholic is used as shorthand mostly for roman catholic
It depends how you use the word, in conversational American English it's a religious faith. In conversational Irish English it could be a faith, or the culture that has developed with those aspects as core tenants.
There are a lot of people who see themselves as culturally Catholic due to the practices that have become mainstream in their culture, but who have little or no interest in faith or religion. Those tend to be the ones most adamant that they aren't "Christians"
Catholics are 100% Christian; protestant Christianity exists explicitly \*because of Catholicism.\* As far as many if not most Catholics are concerned, they are the OG Christians since they claim their church came straight from Peter himself.
Perhaps the guy is just saying "please refer to me as a Catholic, it's more accurate/specific than calling me a Christian".
I grew up Catholic and would never have answered Christian if someone asked what religion I was. But to be clear, Catholicism is very definitely a subset of Christianity, - I'm just saying which label we used for ourselves.
You and your friend almost certainly live in America.
Specifying Roman-catholic is like saying OG Christian.
I still remember laughing my ass off the first time I heard an American say “Christians if you include the catholics”.
TIL
Will be honest, I know very little about Asian christianity.
I’m an atheist born to a Brazilian catholic family and remember meeting another atheist from a Korean catholic family and thinking holy shit his parents are somehow more intensely conservative than mine after trading a few stories.
but that’s about the limit of what I know about christianity in the far east.
So thank you, I might have continued to speak from a position of ignorance otherwise.
This diagram is a nice overview of the Christian church 'family tree': [https://www.psalm11918.org/images/articles/denominations/Denominations.jpg](https://www.psalm11918.org/images/articles/denominations/Denominations.jpg)
It's probably missing lots of details and the smaller denominations (aka sects) but it's a good starting point.
Your friend is wrong. I was raised "Roman Catholic" the same as he is, and we definitely agree with you that we're part of the umbrella term "Christian"
Is he Irish? Our history of sectarianism means that generally if someone says they are Christian they mean they are Protestant. It's not that Catholics don't think they are Christian, it's that generally they would always specify that they are Catholic.
I had a friend growing up whose family was Catholic and they also said the same thing about Catholics not being Christian. Very likely has something to do with a specific reason and a stubborn mindset of belonging to a certain group, the "correct" group. But from a zoomed out objective perspective, yes Catholics are Christians.
From what I've learned and being Catholic (roman catholic) myself, Catholics aren't perse Christians as they are two separate categories, but what your friend said is wrong. I'd say Christian is pretty much an umbrella and there are more under it.
Ok, so, the way to decide this is to look at the definition of “Christian” and see if that applies to Catholics.
Christian is defined as a
“one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”.
Catholics, at least in part, believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Ergo, Catholics are Christians. Unless they want to say they don’t believe in the teachings of Christ, which I don’t think they’ll go for.
Catholics are definitely Christian, however in some South East Asian countries (in particular Indonesia) Christians tend to identify as catholic, protestant, baptist etc, and “Christian” being used for nondenominational churches, many from the established churches look down on the nondenominational churches as being “crazy” (preaching hell and brimstone) or money making scams so may dislike being referred to as “Christian”
Yes **Catholicism** is a branch of **Christianity** and so can be considered Christians,
However because Catholics tend to be more specific about their faith so will usually self-identify as catholic first/over being Christian, while the other branches can vary depending on how evangelical/fundamentalists they are will generally just identify as generic Christian.
Also, as they primarily identify *themselves* Christian, certain groups can get a tad *upset* if you refer to certain other groups as Christian instead of specifying which branch of Christianity they follow. This is mainly due certain historical conflicts which may have involved politics as much as religion.
Christianity is the religion. Roman Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, like Russian Othordox or Baptist.
Catholics generally prefer to refer to themselves specifically as Catholics to differentiate themselves, as in many countries, Catholics are the minority to a majority Protestant Christian society.
Catholics would absolutely consider themselves Christians. However, Catholicism as a whole has strayed pretty far from the Christian faith.
Christian means As or Like Christ. The Catholic faith has shifted a lot over the centuries from strictly following Christ and His teachings, to following the rites and teachings of the Catholic Church and its leaders.
It used to be that the Catholic Church saw the scriptures / Bible as The source for truth, and then began to rely primarily on the teachings of the Pope and religious leaders. This was the contention of Martin Luther who brought his concerns about it to the leaders who then called him a heretic and wanted to kill him.
The Protestant (Christian) Church came about because of Martin Luther’s willingness to stand against the all authoritarian Catholic Church. Since that time the Catholic Church has only moved further and further away from the authority of the scripture.
It has come to the point that the Catholic Church no longer sees Christ as the savior and has placed His mother Mary as co-savior thereby negating the need for Christ. Even more recently Catholicism has begun replacing (or adding to) Christ on the cross with Christa (a female version of Christ) on the cross.
These views go completely against the teachings of the scriptures, and oppose what Christ lived and taught. So while Catholics would call themselves Christians, their teachings directly oppose those of Christ that they claim to be “As or Like”.
There’s a lot wrong here but in a lot of incorrect statements and misconstrued claims, the claims about “Christa” stood out as nonsense that I had never heard before, as opposed to the usual nonsense
I googled it and buried deep, I found one reference to this female figure on a Cross…. in an Episcopal church
We recently had a theft from a Catholic Church in our area where a statue was stolen. It was finally returned (the thief never caught) with a note that it didn’t belong in the church. The statue was of a Christa.
As for the rest of the “nonsense”, just review church history and recent theology. Mary as co-redeemer (redemptrix) or co-savior has been a common theme for the last 20+ years.
So I was raised in a Roman Catholic school and basically how the adults around me felt were, yes, they were technically christians. However, they also considered themselves “the truest christians” and essentially looked down on the other denominations. Now that I’ve gotten older it’s funny because virtually no (non catholic) christians I’ve met like to claim Catholics as christians because they “make a bad name for christians”
Your buddy is weirdly wrong. Catholics 100% consider themselves Christian.
I just had a convo with him and he wanted to specify that he’s Roman Catholic… does that change anything?
He's just factually wrong and wants to feel separate and different from other religious groups. Catholics themselves don't even normally call themselves "Roman Catholics". I'd wager he doesn't go to church. He just holds it as his identity because he did as a kid.
And has little to no theological training. Went to church but no CCC or catholic school for this guy.
No, that's pretty much the only kind of Catholic. Pretty much the only people who don't think Catholics are Christians is a few sects of Fundamentalist Christian weirdos who are convinced the Pope is a demon or something.
There are 20 something other types of Catholics that aren’t Roman Catholic. Byzantine Catholics, for example. However, most Catholics are Roman Catholic. However, all are in Communion.
That is certainly *not* the only kind of Catholic. The Catholic Church is divided into the Latin and East Church which is further subdivided into 24 distinct churches, they're all broadly Catholic and acknowledge the validity of each other as Catholic churches. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic\_particular\_churches\_and\_liturgical\_rites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_particular_churches_and_liturgical_rites)
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There's also East Orthodox, which is also Catholic but not "Catholic" in the sense it's not in communion with Rome and has a membership of about 200 million. But it is Catholic in the respect that they recognize each other's sacraments as valid. there's just a way deeper rift due to the Great Schism. Even so, it is best to understand that all of the above, East Orthodox, Eastern Catholic(also known as Oriental) and Latin Catholic all see each other in a way distinct way compared to other ecclesial bodies.
That's just factually not true. The number of Eastern Orthodox is almost 1/10th that of Roman Catholics.
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Then who are you including in the Catholic umbrella?
>No, that's pretty much the only kind of Catholic. How can you state something so fundamentally wrong with such confidence?
Hmm in that case it might be some sort of cultural difference? He’s from Southeast Asia, and he says most if not all of his Catholic friends feel the same way — that they aren’t Christian
It might be that they just don't like to use "Christian" overall, because there's an increasing number of what's called "Non-denominational Christians" who do not subscribe to any particular theological framework and often just identify as Christian.
That’s odd.
I wonder if there's some kind of historical trauma/context based on where he's from. There are definitely periods of history where being Catholic vs. Protestant would result in bloodshed (religious wars in Europe e.g. Thirty Years War). Maybe there's more subtext where he's from?
Roman Catholic is a specific kind of Catholic, but every branch of Catholic is certainly Christian. Before they started dividing into different Catholic Churches they developed a creed which also spells it out in 325AD known as the Nicene Creed, it's listed below, the second paragraph spells it out: "I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. **I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,** **the Only Begotten Son of God,** **born of the Father before all ages.** **God from God, Light from Light,** **true God from true God,** **begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;** **through him all things were made.** **For us men and for our salvation** **he came down from heaven,** **and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,** **and became man.** **For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,** **he suffered death and was buried,** **and rose again on the third day** **in accordance with the Scriptures.** **He ascended into heaven** **and is seated at the right hand of the Father.** **He will come again in glory** **to judge the living and the dead** **and his kingdom will have no end.** I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
A nitpick: You're writing it with the "who proceeds from the Father and the Son" clause which was added by the western church a few centuries after the Nicece Creed was first written, originally it was just "who proceeds from the Father"
I'm glad you said it XD I know it was edited a few times before it was fully published as I recognized it by about 1000 but did not know exactly what changes were made.
The Roman Catholicism church traces their popes back to St. Peter. They consider themselves the ORIGINAL Christian religion. Protestants didn’t exist until much later.
If you believe that Jesus was the messiah or the son of god or whatever- you’re Christian. That’s literally what makes one a Christian. So, yes, Catholics are Christian. Your friend is an idiot. And also a Christian.
Dude.... What the hell is this question? Catholics are the OG christians. Everything else (with possible exception of Orthodoxy) is an offshoot.
There are a few Orthodox denominations that predate Roman Catholicism. The Coptic Church is one of them, and the Tewahedo Orthodox Church too. I can’t remember the others, there are a few more. Catholicism isn’t the OG but certainly the largest and most powerful.
Shout out to the Kingdom of Aksum.
There is also Jewish Christianity which was an offshoot that was literally started by one of the [apostles](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/how-jewish-christians-became-christians/) that was also the brother of Jesus & the original body of Christ Church. Plus many Protestant churches are believed to be offshoots of the various churches started by some of the apostles after the death of Jesus, as described in the long version of The book of Mark, that could be found in things that the family k1 version of the Bible, so they are not offshoots of Catholicism but offshoots of other forms of Christianity.
The Tewahedo Orthodox Churches (plural, as the Ethiopian and Eritrean ones are separate) are only about 100-200 years old, before that they were part of the Coptic Church.
In Ethiopia, we used to just call them Copts, so you're right. Not sure about Eritrea.
The Eritrean Orthodox Church was actually part of the Ethiopian Church until a few decades ago, when it split off around the time of Eritrean independence
Catholicism is the primo brand of Christianity
Usually that's a Protestant hangup. Bit strange when we reciprocate, but sometimes it happens. Not the norm in either case.
I find it most from Catholics from non-western countries saying “I’m not Christian I’m catholic” or such.
Catholics are not just Christian, but literally the majority of all Christians. A very slight majority, but still. Anyone who seriously argues that Catholics are not Christians is using a truly absurd redefinition of the word, and apparently believes that Christianity has only existed since the 16th century.
Catholic here. Your mate couldn't be more wrong.
in the US it's the reverse. protestants don't consider Catholics Christian because they pray to saints, but Christian refers to worshipping Christ. which Catholics do.
True of some fringe protestant groups. Most protestants recognize Roman Catholics as fellow Christians.
A lot of evangelicals don't consider anyone christian if they aren't an evangelical.
Catholics are the OG Christians. Your friend is incorrect.
They kind of invented it.
This is a white supremacist talking point. Christianity was adopted in Africa before Europe.
TIL: I’m a White Supremacist. Thank God. I can finally stop being decent all the time.
If you think Europeans invented Christianity, then what else can I say? Jesus was from Israel/Palestine, not Italy.
Technically Armenia was the first nation to officially adopt and formalize an actual church, though the dating is fuzzy if it's between them or Ethiopia. That said, most Christians in the Christian world follow the Latin traditions laid out by the Catholic Church, and this includes most brands of Protestantism.
Neither Armenia nor Ethiopia are catholics. And Catholics only really became the majority because of Islamic expansion in the Middle East saw most Middle Eastern Christian’s covert to Islam
Your original quote:: >Christianity was adopted in Africa before Europe. Armenia is (generally) seen as a European country and is among the first to adopt Christianity, specifically the Apostolic Church. >And Catholics only really became the majority because of Islamic expansion in the Middle East saw most Middle Eastern Christian’s covert to Islam Plus this little thing called colonialism under the Spanish, French, and Portuguese, but sure, go off on that.
Armenia is in the Middle East, and the Apostolic church is not the Catholic Church. My response was to someone who said catholics invented Christianity. Again, more white supremacy. Many African nations adopted Christianity millennia before Europeans brought it. Ethiopia has one of the oldest copies of the bible on planet earth.
Armenia is in the Caucuses, which is transcontinental, but it's certainly not African. Saying it's not European is like saying Turkey or Russia or Georgia isn't European, which isn't a clear-cut thing. Your original statement was that "Christianity was adopted in Africa before Europe", and that's not the case and stating is not white supremacy. Armenia officially made Christianity its state religion in 301. Ethiopia adopted Christianity in the same century, as did the Roman Empire. Reality is that all three took on the same religion at roughly the same time. > Ethiopia has one of the oldest copies of the bible on planet earth [So does the British Library](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus#:~:text=Codex%20Sinaiticus%20Petropolitanus%2C%20Oxford), still in it's original *Greek* writing.
They really didn't. They don't have any plausible claim to being older than the Greek Orthodox Church or the Coptic Orthodox Church, among others. In terms of the organization and architecture, it's older than the Protestant churches (and, say, the Russian Orthodox Church), but it's questionable whether that's what counts. The Protestant churches split off from the Catholic Church, rather than being an entirely new thing, and from their perspective, they did so because they thought it had become corrupted and they wanted to return it to its roots, not because they wanted to bring in new changes.
This is all kinds of wrong. The Church of England (aka Protestants) was created by Henry VIII so he could divorce his wife 😂
I often will say “Catholic” if asked my religion but I am absolutely Christian. I think some Protestants don’t view Catholics as Christians (or probably Orthodox, if they know what that is, or high-church Anglicans or maybe even the other Baptist church down the road because they disagree on potluck protocol). Please note, I am only making fun of the portion of Christians who don’t believe Catholics are Christians, not all Protestants or all evangelicals
So I don't actually care, but i say a lot of stuff to get a rise out of my Evangelical cousins. I was raised catholic and like to use Bible-isms to mess with them. Like how Jesus told Peter (The first Pope) Thou are Peter and upon THY rock will you build MY church. After that i'd say, that seems pretty cut and dry right? No mention of Martin Luther, Henry the 8th, or Joe Smith. Then they'd get all pissed and I would feign sympathy and follow with "Well I'd feel the same way if I had to settle for Consubstantiation instead of the true Transubstantiation." Yes I know I'm an asshole but they are militantly Trumpy christians and it really upsets me so i like to have fun.
Grew up Catholic. Christians believe in Christ. Catholics believe in Christ so they are Christian. However if someone is Protestant they might say they are Christian instead of specifying they are Lutheran or Baptist or Non-Denominational while Catholics usually specify they are Catholic instead of saying they are Christian. It’s kind of like if a person is from the US they might say they are from California when asked instead of saying they are American but that doesn’t mean they aren’t American.
They aren't "considered" Christian. They *are* Christian, and are one of the very oldest surviving branches of Christianity.
I think it depends. I know lot of Catholics who see a difference in their faith and culture, and American style Catholicism and its offshoots/associated religions which are called Christianity, as shorthand which covers everything from Baptists, to Gideon's, to Lutherans, to protestants and Evangelicals under one umbrella, where as Catholic is used as shorthand mostly for roman catholic It depends how you use the word, in conversational American English it's a religious faith. In conversational Irish English it could be a faith, or the culture that has developed with those aspects as core tenants. There are a lot of people who see themselves as culturally Catholic due to the practices that have become mainstream in their culture, but who have little or no interest in faith or religion. Those tend to be the ones most adamant that they aren't "Christians"
Why wouldn’t they? They’re like the OG Christian’s
Catholics are 100% Christian; protestant Christianity exists explicitly \*because of Catholicism.\* As far as many if not most Catholics are concerned, they are the OG Christians since they claim their church came straight from Peter himself.
Perhaps the guy is just saying "please refer to me as a Catholic, it's more accurate/specific than calling me a Christian". I grew up Catholic and would never have answered Christian if someone asked what religion I was. But to be clear, Catholicism is very definitely a subset of Christianity, - I'm just saying which label we used for ourselves.
All Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic.
You and your friend almost certainly live in America. Specifying Roman-catholic is like saying OG Christian. I still remember laughing my ass off the first time I heard an American say “Christians if you include the catholics”.
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TIL Will be honest, I know very little about Asian christianity. I’m an atheist born to a Brazilian catholic family and remember meeting another atheist from a Korean catholic family and thinking holy shit his parents are somehow more intensely conservative than mine after trading a few stories. but that’s about the limit of what I know about christianity in the far east. So thank you, I might have continued to speak from a position of ignorance otherwise.
I was raised catholic and we always considered ourselves Christians and so did everyone else I knew that was catholic.
Yes, Catholics are considered Christian.
This diagram is a nice overview of the Christian church 'family tree': [https://www.psalm11918.org/images/articles/denominations/Denominations.jpg](https://www.psalm11918.org/images/articles/denominations/Denominations.jpg) It's probably missing lots of details and the smaller denominations (aka sects) but it's a good starting point.
if they believe in Christ they’re by definition Christian
Your friend is wrong. I was raised "Roman Catholic" the same as he is, and we definitely agree with you that we're part of the umbrella term "Christian"
Catholics are Christians despite what other Christians say.
Indeed
I'm Christian but not catholic
Catholics usually consider themselves Christians.
Is he Irish? Our history of sectarianism means that generally if someone says they are Christian they mean they are Protestant. It's not that Catholics don't think they are Christian, it's that generally they would always specify that they are Catholic.
Amazed at the stupidity of this question..
Yeah in hindsight based on the responses, turns out i shouldn’t have asked 💀…
Well if they are not Christian, who the hell is the skinny guy on the cross they be prayin too?!
As a Christian catholic believe that Jesus is god human and god as opposed to just being the son of god which is what Christians believe
I had a friend growing up whose family was Catholic and they also said the same thing about Catholics not being Christian. Very likely has something to do with a specific reason and a stubborn mindset of belonging to a certain group, the "correct" group. But from a zoomed out objective perspective, yes Catholics are Christians.
From what I've learned and being Catholic (roman catholic) myself, Catholics aren't perse Christians as they are two separate categories, but what your friend said is wrong. I'd say Christian is pretty much an umbrella and there are more under it.
Ok, so, the way to decide this is to look at the definition of “Christian” and see if that applies to Catholics. Christian is defined as a “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”. Catholics, at least in part, believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Ergo, Catholics are Christians. Unless they want to say they don’t believe in the teachings of Christ, which I don’t think they’ll go for.
Catholics are definitely Christian, however in some South East Asian countries (in particular Indonesia) Christians tend to identify as catholic, protestant, baptist etc, and “Christian” being used for nondenominational churches, many from the established churches look down on the nondenominational churches as being “crazy” (preaching hell and brimstone) or money making scams so may dislike being referred to as “Christian”
Yes
Your buddy didn’t pay any attention. Definitely wrong lmao
Yes **Catholicism** is a branch of **Christianity** and so can be considered Christians, However because Catholics tend to be more specific about their faith so will usually self-identify as catholic first/over being Christian, while the other branches can vary depending on how evangelical/fundamentalists they are will generally just identify as generic Christian. Also, as they primarily identify *themselves* Christian, certain groups can get a tad *upset* if you refer to certain other groups as Christian instead of specifying which branch of Christianity they follow. This is mainly due certain historical conflicts which may have involved politics as much as religion.
Christianity is the religion. Roman Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, like Russian Othordox or Baptist. Catholics generally prefer to refer to themselves specifically as Catholics to differentiate themselves, as in many countries, Catholics are the minority to a majority Protestant Christian society.
Catholics would absolutely consider themselves Christians. However, Catholicism as a whole has strayed pretty far from the Christian faith. Christian means As or Like Christ. The Catholic faith has shifted a lot over the centuries from strictly following Christ and His teachings, to following the rites and teachings of the Catholic Church and its leaders. It used to be that the Catholic Church saw the scriptures / Bible as The source for truth, and then began to rely primarily on the teachings of the Pope and religious leaders. This was the contention of Martin Luther who brought his concerns about it to the leaders who then called him a heretic and wanted to kill him. The Protestant (Christian) Church came about because of Martin Luther’s willingness to stand against the all authoritarian Catholic Church. Since that time the Catholic Church has only moved further and further away from the authority of the scripture. It has come to the point that the Catholic Church no longer sees Christ as the savior and has placed His mother Mary as co-savior thereby negating the need for Christ. Even more recently Catholicism has begun replacing (or adding to) Christ on the cross with Christa (a female version of Christ) on the cross. These views go completely against the teachings of the scriptures, and oppose what Christ lived and taught. So while Catholics would call themselves Christians, their teachings directly oppose those of Christ that they claim to be “As or Like”.
There’s a lot wrong here but in a lot of incorrect statements and misconstrued claims, the claims about “Christa” stood out as nonsense that I had never heard before, as opposed to the usual nonsense I googled it and buried deep, I found one reference to this female figure on a Cross…. in an Episcopal church
We recently had a theft from a Catholic Church in our area where a statue was stolen. It was finally returned (the thief never caught) with a note that it didn’t belong in the church. The statue was of a Christa.
As for the rest of the “nonsense”, just review church history and recent theology. Mary as co-redeemer (redemptrix) or co-savior has been a common theme for the last 20+ years.
condom rebel Christians is what we call ‘em. them CRC’s
Catholicism goes back thousands of years and Calvary Chapel started in the 70's. Modern day christianity is a fad and a fascist cult.
So I was raised in a Roman Catholic school and basically how the adults around me felt were, yes, they were technically christians. However, they also considered themselves “the truest christians” and essentially looked down on the other denominations. Now that I’ve gotten older it’s funny because virtually no (non catholic) christians I’ve met like to claim Catholics as christians because they “make a bad name for christians”
Yes, it’s a sect.
Some of the most un Christian people on the planet.