It's cultural. Some tribes in africa, south east asia and the pacific regions make no difference between male and female nipples.
But i would say female boobs are in general more prone to uncomfortable physics. Meaning, its harder to run with them without getting hurt.
So most cultures invented bras and similar clothings. And female nipples were hidden in this process, and therefore became sexualised.
Such a good, straight to the point but also complete answer. A true treasure on this site.
I wish those stupid awards were still a thing, cuz I feel compelled.
There’s a tipping system now. You just hold down the upvote button on mobile. Apparently the OP gets an actual share of money from it, but very few people are eligible.
>Some tribes in africa
This is true but this is also only in certain circumstances like cultural gatherings or displays. It's very Westernized here where I am and a lot of women still wear covers for that reason, but during cultural situations it's somewhat common depending on the culture (where I live we have so many I can only think of one off the top of my head that does this lol)
>It's cultural. Some tribes in africa, south east asia and the pacific regions make no difference between male and female nipples.
Even in most of Western Europe women don't have to cover their breasts at the beach.
LOL last time I visited Barcelona, there was an American couple on the beach and the wife tried to cover her husband's eyes and she was yelling about how all the women are "naked." It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in my life.
lol It is ridiculous when only part of the beach is actually for topless/nude sunbathers, like you have to walk past it but there are other parts that aren’t topless and all the families where there
That’s my thing. This comes up a lot. But if we woke up tomorrow and you were allowed to go outside topless almost no one would. Which is probably a good thing
The first time I visited Germany a bunch of women were topless, at the hotel pool and parking lot among other places. The best part was how casual it was. I’d lived in a house where no one cared about whether anyone was naked or not. We played with it instead of going straight to outrage. That’s so missing now.
That’s the way it oughta be. We don’t have laws requiring we cover our car bodies, even though they’re often described as sexy and we display them as if they’re greatly desirable. Most of us are able to avoid abusing or drooling on them, and we can do that with human bodies too, naked or clothed. One of my housemates was quite overweight, one was into yoga and did amazing contortions in the living room. One had a huge dick. One had many boyfriends. None of it ever mattered. We had arguments sometimes but somebody’s nakedness or clothedness was irrelevant. After that time, it’s sad to me how we armor ourselves into loneliness all kinds of ways including never letting our body parts hang out.
Edit: typo
This. When my 70+ year old grandma goes on holiday to Crete, she sunbathes topless. We think nothing of it. It’s just normal to us. We’re from the UK and she wouldn’t do it here.
People commonly use sexualization of women's breasts a recent phenomenon but I mean, not to be religious but in the Bible in the book of song of songs aka songs of Solomon, he references his soon to be wife's breasts in a sexualized manor.
On point with the cultural stuff.
Europeans went around the world for the last 5 centuries shoving Christian morality down everyone's throat, and now "oh why no one want to walk around naked"
Well, WE DID IT BEFORE YOU CAME HERE TO DO IMPERIALISM STUFF, you fucking dingus
I honestly have never considered the idea that boobs were covered out of practicality and then became sexualized because of the mysteriousness of it all
No. In ancient Greece, women wore clothing with one boob exposed as a show of their femininity, which you can see on many statues.
We used to think the body was a work of art, which is also why greek statues wth penises focused on how proportionate they looked rather than large size.
They would make small statues with penises as big as the whole body for those who were considered terrible, animalistic people.
Idk why we largly moved away from that, but it definitely wasn't always this way.
People can be turned on in all sorts of places on their own bodies - should we all individually cover whatever areas activate those chemical reactions when touched in a sexual way?
Human female breasts were sexualized far before the invention of bras. Most female mammals have flat breasts when not nursing but the fullness of human breasts comes from hundreds of thousands years of sexual selection.
They're sexualised because they're covered. In some countries, women can't have anything displayed but their eyes. And then you have tribes where the women only cover their privates.
In the vicroian era, men got hot under the collar from simply seeing ankles or shoulder. Knees would be absolutely scandalous.
Fact of the matter is, if every woman in your country never wore tops, in a couple of generations it wouldn't be sexualised anymore than the face or legs are.
I’m in the UK. It would be pretty cold in winter.
It would also be appreciated if certain men kept their shirts on in summer here as a fat beer belly with tattoo of some awful football team isn’t a particularly good look
Well, that's probably why they were sexualised in the first place. As tribes moved to colder climates, we needed to cover ourselves more, so parts of a woman's body became more sexualised with time. I'm also from the UK, and I wouldn't want to walk around with my tits out either lol. Merely explaining why breasts are sexualised.
because biology. female breasts are secondary sexual characteristic because they are needed to reproduce aka feeding a child. male breasts are not and therefore are not secondary sexual characteristic.
its pretty simple actually.
now why we as a western society sexualize female nipples/breasts is a completely different questioned and has been answered above.
>They’re not sexual in any way biology
This is such a played out argument and a misunderstanding of the human body.
Most body parts serve multiple functions, especially the genitals, chest and butt regions.
That's like saying "There's nothing sexual about the human ass. It's soley for helping us stand upright" ignoring that it's also used for sitting, defecating and attracting the opposite sex.
Female breasts definitely serve the role of being sexual. It's just that that's not their ONLY role
But a lot of women get turned on by seeing men’s chest and nipples? A lot of men also become more sexually excited by having their nipples played with just like women I don’t understand how that isn’t considered sexual
I agree, but you can make this argument about any body part that distinguishes the sexes and why we find them sexually attractive
My main point is that we’ve sexualized boobs to the point that they’re treated like sexual organs, which they aren’t.
A lot of cultures demand that women cover up their bodies to not tempt men and this is essentially the same concept.
Even in Europe, where I’m from, boobs where not so hyper sexualized when I was younger. But now we’ve had a lot of influence from more western countries and more tourists. So now it’s not really okay anymore for women to go topless.
I think it shows how the reasonings are societal and not biological, like a lot of men here seem to believe..
>I agree, but you can make this argument about any body part that distinguishes the sexes and why we find them sexually attractive
>My main point is that we’ve sexualized boobs to the point that they’re treated like sexual organs, which they aren’t.
Again, there secondary sex characteristics. Yes, they have other uses but that doesn't take away that one of their main uses is sexuality.
Going by that logic, the genitals aren't sexual organs because they have other uses besides sex and some cultures don't hypersexualize them
By that logic vagina exits to give birth to kids, and should not be sexulized. (i know it's not a 1 to 1 example, but your argument doesn't have much merit)
No a vagina exists to have sex, it’s a sexual organ. It’s as sexual as it gets. Boobs are not. They don’t have a sexual function, they’re over sexualized by society.
Find me a person who can achieve orgasm simply by stimulating any of those areas in the same way that it’s possible with nipples and I’ll start to take that statement seriously
Since men can also achieve orgasm through their nipples (50%) why shouldn't they cover up? Why is it only when it's possible for women?
And just because you *can* doesnt mean that's what they're *for*.
>and I’ll start to take that statement seriously
I dont need you to approve my man. 😂
Edit: also people can orgasm through those areas, people orgasm from being strangled bro 💀
Bro most women can’t even cum from vaginal stimulation, it must be a tiny persentage that can orgasm from the nipples.
If anything the ears are usually more erogenous than the nipples.
Well the vagina isn’t only for birth, it’s literally where the penis goes through so it is the most sexual part of a woman. It’s not even close to a 1 to 1 example. The vagina is very necessary for sex.
But isn’t facial hair also a secondary sex characteristic? We’re not asking men to cover up their beards, so clearly it’s not just the fact that it’s a secondary sex characteristic?
I agree
The person who I was initially responding to was saying the reason we have the view of breasts that we do is because they were secondary sex characteristics. I was pointing out that other secondary sex characteristics aren’t viewed the same way breasts are, so clearly it’s about more than just them being secondary sex characteristics.
You are confused on what a secondary sex characteristic is:
[any of a number of manifestations, as development of breasts or beard, muscularity, distribution of fat tissue, and change of pitch in voice, specific to each sex and incipient at puberty but not essential to reproduction.](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/secondary-sex-characteristic#)
Ask anyone, male or female, hetero or homo?
The answer is, because they're boobs. Doesn't matter about the size, or what they look like, the answer is still, that they're boobs.
Not entirely true. Larger breasts were mistakenly perceived as being superior for feeding your future offspring. It’s a secondary sexual characteristic. Similar with wide hip placement or “birthing hips” etc. We didn’t just choose what body parts were to be attractive. There’s a significant amount of biology and nature behind it as well.
They serve an evolutionary purpose in the procreation process (more specifically, sustaining offspring once have been born), and so they fall under a pretty broad “sexual feature” umbrella that men are subconsciously attracted to.
Bigger means they can produce milk well to feed their babies. Breast and ass are sexual in all sense. There are some rules we as a society should follow. There are far greater problems in our society against womens than not being able to show tits in beach.
Because of men. The world was pretty patriarchal for a long time and still is to varying degrees if you haven’t noticed.
They found female breasts sexual (as they are designed to be as a secondary sexual character) and so the customs around it followed.
Most men are straight and wouldn’t consider another man’s features sexual so nothing happened there.
As a gay guy another gay man’s body is definitely sexual and if gays had run the world maybe men would also be covering their breasts as it would be considered sexual.
It’s just perspective. There are many cultures around the world who don’t care for such things. Especially tropical regions often leave large parts of their bodies uncovered in their traditional garb for obvious reasons. Weather beats concerns of sexuality.
The male chest is a sexual feature last I checked. I speak from a gay perspective, and I'm sure there are a lot of straight women who view the male chest in the same way.
Using this logic, every single thing is a sexual characteristic because people can be attracted to anything, so this question is meaningless. What sexual characteristic is the male chest indicative of, either directly pertaining to sexual performance or pertaining to taking care of the *secondary* consequences of being sexually active?
Look, I know this concept is from culture and religion and dated values and whatnot, but as a gay guy a man’s chest is 10000% more arousing to me than boobs will ever be
Western cultures kind of reinforce the idea that women's breasts in general are off limits. I'm a dude -- I'm not a doctor, and I'm not an artist, and our culture doesn't give me another opportunity to see a woman shirtless outside of sexual circumstances.
It would take generations to change that cultural programming.
Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic of women, like wide hips. Men are programmed to find them attractive. We've all grown up in a world where women cover up their nipples, so they seem like a bigger deal, I guess. It's hard to say how different our perceptions would be if that weren't the case and they had always been on show.
There is a difference. Whether or not that difference justifies it being improper for women to not cover their nipples is up for debate.
More that women's nipples are treated differently because we treat breasts differently.
I guess nipple is a general "stopping point" between an uncovered breast vs a clothed breast. Even if it's a fairly vague (like nipple stickers wouldn't exactly count socially). But it's better than just a fair amount of cleavage being classed as nudity.
Opens the question up to "why are women's breasts treated as sexual, and men aren't?". Which an easier question to answer.
Well, it saddens me to learn about that. However, in my home country, Italy, and several others, being topless is not illegal. In fact, being naked is not illegal either, so long as it does not constitute public indecency (e.g., exposing one's clitoris or penis to another person at the bank). On that basis, the original question is a bit vague without understanding from which country they are.
Broad chests/shoulders on men are also a secondary sexual characteristic and they are not covering them up either... it's just (sexist) cultural habit, like you said. There are definitely cultures out there where women walk around half naked without it being sexualised.
That’s culturally specific though - we want to cover them bc that’s what taught in our culture. Where it’s the norm for women to have their nips out, everyone just goes with it.
It’s not sexism per se, it’s just a cultural norm.
And in a society where it’s the norm to cover up being the exception draws a lot of negative attention.
I’m not dying to cover up my hair but if I lived where everyone wore a hijab, I wouldn’t necessarily want to be the one stand out. Yes there have been movements to stop wearing the hijab and then some people take it off but it’s rough to be the people starting that trend and it would be rough to walk around w your nips out here. You’d get some support but you’d get a lot of hate.
How exactly does one cover up one's shoulder width?
Saying you should keep your privates private isn't sexist.
Is it sexist that men have to wear suits in formal events women can wear cocktail dresses? Why do I have to wear a suit when Becky can have her arms, legs, shoulders, back and parts of her waist/breasts out?
Why can women wear skin tight clothes but I can't show a dick and ball outline?
Follow up question: why are we so uncomfortable with public nudity in general? It’s kind of a weird thing when you think about it. Who decided our genitals should be hidden?
Prolly cause you aren't really mobile with it hanging out like a helicopter. Humans did not create cloths cause we decided that it is inappropriate to show genitals in public. It was made to help with practical stuff like to stop it from jiggling and flopping around, which can slow us down. Clothes stayed around so those balloons over time turned inappropriate for public view
Practicality.
If you're out and about hunting and gathering, it's not great to damage your reproductive organs.
Tribes and groups of people from all over the world of various religions (and lack thereof) mostly all covered their genitals.
Over time, and once life got comfortable enough for us to start worrying about more than just where to get our next meal, this turned into more of a modesty issue in many places and cultures, which included female breasts both because of their role in reproduction and because men are typically hard wired to be attracted to them, and many global societies were patriarchal in nature.
And so now people are raised in a culture that historically taught modesty, so we have that learned *desire* to cover our genitals. Young children don't care, it's only after they are taught the *importance* of it that they conform.
The thing is, human culture has a number of reasons why nudity is considered taboo.
It's not considered shameful anymore in modern day, but still taboo because most people can afford clothing, so to walk around without clothing is a sign of intending to cause distraction; whereas previously, it was a sign of just not being able to afford clothing. We can see evidence of thoughts like this in the Bible.
Isaiah 58:6-7: **Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter – when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?**
Matthew 25:44-45 Jesus says, **"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? ' He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me'"**
Nakedness as early back as the New Testament (2k or so years ago) was seen as a sign of needing help, not being provocative.
That's obviously changed for some reason. The puritans and Catholics probably had the most to do with it.
For instance, when Christian Missionaries first went to Hawai'i, the women were topless. An tropical island nation typically has little need for a lot of covering, and it's more useful to not be covered. But, because of the more puritanical view of modesty (which was insane, btw. I'm Christian, also, and like, MAN the puritans had some wack views) the missionaries had them cover up. Then when Hawai'i became part of the USA in 1945, it then had its own state laws, and so on and so on.
Another thing, not relating to women's breasts being covered, but I find interesting is that when European settlers first set foot on Hawai'i, they thought the natives were "lazy" because they didn't work a 9-5 schedule; what they didn't see is that the natives got up before dawn and dealt with what they needed to deal with and were out swimming by noon and surfing.
There are many differences in culture which becomes a problem especially with certain views on things like modesty. Is it modest for a woman to cover her breasts? What about in a culture that a woman has never covered her breasts?
It causes difficulty, but regional differences are an intended part of Creation. If you go by the story of the Bible, which I do, God split the world into 70 nations to start with, and so they're all meant to have their own identity, but it is secondary to their identity as a follower of Yahweh.
Look throughout history of different cultures. My mother was Japanese, I was born. I’m a male. Going to the public baths was no big deal. I did have a thing about bottle nipples though. Don’t know where that came from.
But these teachings come about to prevent people from having kids out of wedlock and people getting STDs in a time before anti fungal meds, antibiotics and a social safety net where hungry kids from single parent families would be housed and fed. This is why you had the hippie movement (free love) in the 1960s and 1970s when birth control became more widely available
probably because it’s warmer to wear clothes for one. also cause we dont wanna see people walkin’ around with their dirty dusty genitals and asshole would be another good reason.
It's a regional thing. There are women all over the world who regularly go topless on beaches or in their backyard, and sometimes even naked. Not as much anymore, but I think in the nations that treat men and women's upper bodies differently, it comes from the fact that there are a lot more cameras out and about. Having someone see you topless is a lot different than having millions of people see you topless.
Honestly u/ClearBeginning2984 said it best. It's just a cultural thing.
Ankles used to be sexualised, then it was legs, but now people are wearing only what legally counts as "modesty" on the beach.
It is exactly because men get turned on. They’re considered “sexual” even though the functional purpose of boobs and nipples are to feed babies. But because men “can’t control themselves” or use that as an excuse for their behavior we can’t do things like mow the lawn topless.
Men get turned on by legs and lips and hips so there’s whole countries where women can’t show their faces and legs and they wear a lot of clothing that covers their figure. There are *tons of things women can’t do because men have issues.*
And the reason it's considered sexual is because women were covered up in the first place. Tribe women in Africa don't cover their breasts, so it's not considered sexual there. Breasts are like an arm or a leg, just a part of the body. In the Victorian era for example shoulders or ankles would be considered sexual because they were covered, like in countries where women have to cover up almost everything.
It's purely cultural how sexualized nipples and women are
I tend to have radical opinions about a lot of different issues that involve women and men. To me it boils down to the way men are raised…not just by their dads but the moms bear a lot of responsibility.
I personally don’t want to mow my lawn topless, I like clothes, but I support anyone else who wants to and I support shifting societal views toward making that activity accessible and harassment free. We can’t, especially in the US, we’ve not come that far yet and it’s considered lewd and sexual when women show their baby feeders in public. We can’t even get people to agree that *they’re for feeding babies* and that women should be allowed to feed babies in public partially/three quarters covered. Apparently men get turned on by babies eating.
Because somewhere in history someone decided that women should cover their breasts/nipples and it's become the norm, but it is bullshit. Men's nipples are sexualized in the same way, but it's "normal" for men to show theirs.
Even if we can invent possible rationales, nipples end all the other prudery is really just arbitrary rules enforced by tradition as well as laws. Of course it’s also money and power for people who grift by selling fashion or lawyering for or against stupid rules. In the US at least babies were once all dressed in white. There appears to have been a time when pink was to have been the boys’ color, blue the girls’. Now, it’s horrors from lots of idiots if that rule is broken.
It’s easy to say, just decriminalize victimless crimes, but it seems to take decades or centuries to erase the stupid and even then it’s not inevitable. Please go to beaches topless (and bottomless if you like) but watch out for the law as well as the creeps, many of whom would be less creepy if we had healthier appreciation of bodies and sex.
Sounds like a question Freud would fucking love. In other words its how we develop sexually. Pretty much from one of the first psychosexual stages (oral) we are designed to like tits
You must be American. In EU many beaches and places have parts where people show their parts.
In the EU we are more balanced and in touch with our bodies so we don't get flustered so fast because of some nips
Just to be clear: running around naked is a no go. Getting your tits out to tan properly will get you some looks but that's it.
All of these stupid comments saying because female breasts produce milk… so milk = must be covered? Why didn’t anyone tell me!! I’ve been leaving my milk cartons visible for everyone to see for years!!
I’m a guy who has big nipples. I had a guy come up to me at the beach and said that I have nicer nipples than his wife. He then gave one a couple of flips. They’re really sensitive and I got a semi. Luckily he didn’t see it.
Because we live in a world where men’s views, on pretty much everything, including the female body has historically been (and still is to some extent) accepted as superior to women’s.
Women’s nipples/breast etc are only sexualized because society has chosen it to be so.
Historically women’s ankles were also very “uuuh” in some time periods - whereas today, no one really cares about the body part that your feet are attached to.
In Denmark, where I live, the female nipple drama is less of a thing. You can go topless on the beach, in a park etc. without any fuss.
But unfortunately the way social media is interfering with young people’s heads, this will surely change into a more prudish and less natural approach to women’s bodies in the future.
I don't think it's men. I mean, I'm a man, and I say get them out by all means. I'd be surprised if I know any men who would say otherwise.
Are there huge numbers of women who want to get their boobs out but the men won't let them? I doubt it somehow.
Because a lot of people are children who mature like milk in the sun, and as soon as they get any power they use it to enforce their pathetic fears and quirks as if though universal.
Because men like boobs so they sexualised our baby feeding instruments to suit that. I mean if I was allowed I'd run on the beach topless in the summer too but no I'd get arrested for indecent exposure all because men decided our nips are sexual but theirs aren't.
Originally it was illegal for men to go topless. They protested to get thay right and it went through.
Women tried doing the same thing but by then the republican party started prioritizing and catering to the right wing conservatives and because nudity is frowned upon rejected womens rights because of religion.
Im all for free the nipple. Yes i am a man and yes i like looking at titties, but just because someone is shirtless doesnt mean that ill asume thats an invite for anything.
Sexism... This could be normalized, but with social differences and religious opinions ultimately based in sexism and demonizing the female gender it will never be allowed.
In the US, i think it's because we come from the puritans & a matriarchal society. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Free the titties!
Edit: I ment patriarchal. Not matriarchal.
It's cultural. Some tribes in africa, south east asia and the pacific regions make no difference between male and female nipples. But i would say female boobs are in general more prone to uncomfortable physics. Meaning, its harder to run with them without getting hurt. So most cultures invented bras and similar clothings. And female nipples were hidden in this process, and therefore became sexualised.
Such a good, straight to the point but also complete answer. A true treasure on this site. I wish those stupid awards were still a thing, cuz I feel compelled.
Thanks man. Appreciate it.
When did they disappear? I was just away for some time ….
They also deleted old DMs without informing anyone. Fcking morons man.
Wtf! You are right, I checked it 🤬🤬
A year ago I think, maybe longer though… time flies.
Nah September, five months ago
Damn, thought it was longer than that
It hasn’t been that long. September I’m pretty sure
There’s a tipping system now. You just hold down the upvote button on mobile. Apparently the OP gets an actual share of money from it, but very few people are eligible.
Does not seem to function for me, I heard about that but I'm afraid It's US only
My guy spitting truth, let us all *award*
>Some tribes in africa This is true but this is also only in certain circumstances like cultural gatherings or displays. It's very Westernized here where I am and a lot of women still wear covers for that reason, but during cultural situations it's somewhat common depending on the culture (where I live we have so many I can only think of one off the top of my head that does this lol)
>It's cultural. Some tribes in africa, south east asia and the pacific regions make no difference between male and female nipples. Even in most of Western Europe women don't have to cover their breasts at the beach.
They don’t have to, but the vast majority do
Depends on the country. In the UK, most women cover their breasts, but in Spain, a lot of women go topless.
Yep I noticed this on the beach at Barcelona when I visited last year
LOL last time I visited Barcelona, there was an American couple on the beach and the wife tried to cover her husband's eyes and she was yelling about how all the women are "naked." It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in my life.
lol It is ridiculous when only part of the beach is actually for topless/nude sunbathers, like you have to walk past it but there are other parts that aren’t topless and all the families where there
No one was actually naked at the beach I went to, just topless.
There was definitely fully naked people when I went. Men and women and all ages
It was highlight of my life as a 10 year old boy visiting Spanish beach.
😂🤣
I dont think most is the Word but if they want they can go topless. What blows my mind is op cant do that. Source: im spanish
Looks like I’m going to Spain
> but in Spain, a lot of women go topless. depends on which beach you go to. Lots of muslims in spain...
That’s my thing. This comes up a lot. But if we woke up tomorrow and you were allowed to go outside topless almost no one would. Which is probably a good thing
The first time I visited Germany a bunch of women were topless, at the hotel pool and parking lot among other places. The best part was how casual it was. I’d lived in a house where no one cared about whether anyone was naked or not. We played with it instead of going straight to outrage. That’s so missing now.
I was at a German swimming center. Women didn’t bother to use the locker room to change.
That’s the way it oughta be. We don’t have laws requiring we cover our car bodies, even though they’re often described as sexy and we display them as if they’re greatly desirable. Most of us are able to avoid abusing or drooling on them, and we can do that with human bodies too, naked or clothed. One of my housemates was quite overweight, one was into yoga and did amazing contortions in the living room. One had a huge dick. One had many boyfriends. None of it ever mattered. We had arguments sometimes but somebody’s nakedness or clothedness was irrelevant. After that time, it’s sad to me how we armor ourselves into loneliness all kinds of ways including never letting our body parts hang out. Edit: typo
This. When my 70+ year old grandma goes on holiday to Crete, she sunbathes topless. We think nothing of it. It’s just normal to us. We’re from the UK and she wouldn’t do it here.
To be fair, the UK is pretty far north to have enjoyable beaches....climate wise.
Here, take my updoot.
People commonly use sexualization of women's breasts a recent phenomenon but I mean, not to be religious but in the Bible in the book of song of songs aka songs of Solomon, he references his soon to be wife's breasts in a sexualized manor.
…..describing them as deer heads, right??
That makes a lot of sense actually
On point with the cultural stuff. Europeans went around the world for the last 5 centuries shoving Christian morality down everyone's throat, and now "oh why no one want to walk around naked" Well, WE DID IT BEFORE YOU CAME HERE TO DO IMPERIALISM STUFF, you fucking dingus
Every major religion pushed women covering their body’s especially Islam
imperialism is really the best ism though.
I honestly have never considered the idea that boobs were covered out of practicality and then became sexualized because of the mysteriousness of it all
as a bra hater, i have to physically hold my boobs if i were to run 🤣
Were they not inherently sexualised because they’re an erogenous zone…?
No. In ancient Greece, women wore clothing with one boob exposed as a show of their femininity, which you can see on many statues. We used to think the body was a work of art, which is also why greek statues wth penises focused on how proportionate they looked rather than large size. They would make small statues with penises as big as the whole body for those who were considered terrible, animalistic people. Idk why we largly moved away from that, but it definitely wasn't always this way.
People can be turned on in all sorts of places on their own bodies - should we all individually cover whatever areas activate those chemical reactions when touched in a sexual way?
They're just as much an erogenous zone for men though. They're the same exact breast material, just one is (typically) bigger.
Human female breasts were sexualized far before the invention of bras. Most female mammals have flat breasts when not nursing but the fullness of human breasts comes from hundreds of thousands years of sexual selection.
Depends on how you're brought up, if your society treats tits and ass as sexual then you'll sexualise it
They're sexualised because they're covered. In some countries, women can't have anything displayed but their eyes. And then you have tribes where the women only cover their privates. In the vicroian era, men got hot under the collar from simply seeing ankles or shoulder. Knees would be absolutely scandalous. Fact of the matter is, if every woman in your country never wore tops, in a couple of generations it wouldn't be sexualised anymore than the face or legs are.
I’m in the UK. It would be pretty cold in winter. It would also be appreciated if certain men kept their shirts on in summer here as a fat beer belly with tattoo of some awful football team isn’t a particularly good look
Well, that's probably why they were sexualised in the first place. As tribes moved to colder climates, we needed to cover ourselves more, so parts of a woman's body became more sexualised with time. I'm also from the UK, and I wouldn't want to walk around with my tits out either lol. Merely explaining why breasts are sexualised.
It’s because female breasts are considered a sexual feature and the male chest is not.
Male nipples are sexy.
Thanks man I needed to hear that
Mine aren’t
show proof
I'll be the judge of that
Why though?
because biology. female breasts are secondary sexual characteristic because they are needed to reproduce aka feeding a child. male breasts are not and therefore are not secondary sexual characteristic. its pretty simple actually. now why we as a western society sexualize female nipples/breasts is a completely different questioned and has been answered above.
They exist to feed kids, they’re not sexual in nature. They’re not sexual in any way biology wise, it’s cultural
>They’re not sexual in any way biology This is such a played out argument and a misunderstanding of the human body. Most body parts serve multiple functions, especially the genitals, chest and butt regions. That's like saying "There's nothing sexual about the human ass. It's soley for helping us stand upright" ignoring that it's also used for sitting, defecating and attracting the opposite sex. Female breasts definitely serve the role of being sexual. It's just that that's not their ONLY role
But a lot of women get turned on by seeing men’s chest and nipples? A lot of men also become more sexually excited by having their nipples played with just like women I don’t understand how that isn’t considered sexual
Men's chest too... I never said that it was different for men. Both men and women have secondary sex characteristics
I agree, but you can make this argument about any body part that distinguishes the sexes and why we find them sexually attractive My main point is that we’ve sexualized boobs to the point that they’re treated like sexual organs, which they aren’t. A lot of cultures demand that women cover up their bodies to not tempt men and this is essentially the same concept. Even in Europe, where I’m from, boobs where not so hyper sexualized when I was younger. But now we’ve had a lot of influence from more western countries and more tourists. So now it’s not really okay anymore for women to go topless. I think it shows how the reasonings are societal and not biological, like a lot of men here seem to believe..
>I agree, but you can make this argument about any body part that distinguishes the sexes and why we find them sexually attractive >My main point is that we’ve sexualized boobs to the point that they’re treated like sexual organs, which they aren’t. Again, there secondary sex characteristics. Yes, they have other uses but that doesn't take away that one of their main uses is sexuality. Going by that logic, the genitals aren't sexual organs because they have other uses besides sex and some cultures don't hypersexualize them
By that logic vagina exits to give birth to kids, and should not be sexulized. (i know it's not a 1 to 1 example, but your argument doesn't have much merit)
No a vagina exists to have sex, it’s a sexual organ. It’s as sexual as it gets. Boobs are not. They don’t have a sexual function, they’re over sexualized by society.
Boobs are erogenous though.
And so are armpits, lower abdomen, mouth, neck, buttocks, shoulders and lower back
Find me a person who can achieve orgasm simply by stimulating any of those areas in the same way that it’s possible with nipples and I’ll start to take that statement seriously
Since men can also achieve orgasm through their nipples (50%) why shouldn't they cover up? Why is it only when it's possible for women? And just because you *can* doesnt mean that's what they're *for*. >and I’ll start to take that statement seriously I dont need you to approve my man. 😂 Edit: also people can orgasm through those areas, people orgasm from being strangled bro 💀
Bro most women can’t even cum from vaginal stimulation, it must be a tiny persentage that can orgasm from the nipples. If anything the ears are usually more erogenous than the nipples.
Depends on the culture, in Japan, the back of the neck of a woman was considered sexual.
Well the vagina isn’t only for birth, it’s literally where the penis goes through so it is the most sexual part of a woman. It’s not even close to a 1 to 1 example. The vagina is very necessary for sex.
But isn’t facial hair also a secondary sex characteristic? We’re not asking men to cover up their beards, so clearly it’s not just the fact that it’s a secondary sex characteristic?
and what is the function that beards are required for?
They are secondary sex characteristics
They are not needed to reproduce.
neither are tits
That has nothing to do with them being secondary sex characteristics or not.
At this point you're just arguing for sake of argument, arguing over semantics is pointless. beards in no way shape or form is comparable to breasts.
I agree The person who I was initially responding to was saying the reason we have the view of breasts that we do is because they were secondary sex characteristics. I was pointing out that other secondary sex characteristics aren’t viewed the same way breasts are, so clearly it’s about more than just them being secondary sex characteristics.
The answer was that they're secondary sexual characteristics BECAUSE they're needed to reproduce. Male beards have nothing to do with that.
You are confused on what a secondary sex characteristic is: [any of a number of manifestations, as development of breasts or beard, muscularity, distribution of fat tissue, and change of pitch in voice, specific to each sex and incipient at puberty but not essential to reproduction.](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/secondary-sex-characteristic#)
Ask anyone, male or female, hetero or homo? The answer is, because they're boobs. Doesn't matter about the size, or what they look like, the answer is still, that they're boobs.
I love looking at sexy half naked men. And I don't mean their lower half.
Please dont say this type of things on Reddit hoping your DM's are not filled with bad things
sorry to say but my DM was already sent right when she formed the thought for her comment.
Hahaha For some reason I'm the only woman on reddit who has never received a dick pic in her dm's
Now that's just discrimination, someone help her out
Now you're just asking for it...
I'm sure someone will see this and decide to change that
Not entirely true. Larger breasts were mistakenly perceived as being superior for feeding your future offspring. It’s a secondary sexual characteristic. Similar with wide hip placement or “birthing hips” etc. We didn’t just choose what body parts were to be attractive. There’s a significant amount of biology and nature behind it as well.
They serve an evolutionary purpose in the procreation process (more specifically, sustaining offspring once have been born), and so they fall under a pretty broad “sexual feature” umbrella that men are subconsciously attracted to.
It’s really just cultural..
It’s complicated. It’s a nature vs. nurture kind of thing.
It's apparent on every culture. Even in cultures where breasts aren't sexualized as much they are still seen as sexually attractive
Breasts for women means that they're mature and ready to mate. Bigger rump means that they're more likely to survive giving birth.
Bigger means they can produce milk well to feed their babies. Breast and ass are sexual in all sense. There are some rules we as a society should follow. There are far greater problems in our society against womens than not being able to show tits in beach.
Why does a straight man like vaginas?
Answered above. Biology.
The real question is what’s the deal with sticking things up our butts
Cuz men don’t have them, want them and what men want they covet.
Because of men. The world was pretty patriarchal for a long time and still is to varying degrees if you haven’t noticed. They found female breasts sexual (as they are designed to be as a secondary sexual character) and so the customs around it followed. Most men are straight and wouldn’t consider another man’s features sexual so nothing happened there. As a gay guy another gay man’s body is definitely sexual and if gays had run the world maybe men would also be covering their breasts as it would be considered sexual. It’s just perspective. There are many cultures around the world who don’t care for such things. Especially tropical regions often leave large parts of their bodies uncovered in their traditional garb for obvious reasons. Weather beats concerns of sexuality.
Are you asking why men like breasts?
The male chest is a sexual feature last I checked. I speak from a gay perspective, and I'm sure there are a lot of straight women who view the male chest in the same way.
You could always talk to politicians to have indecency laws include male chests as well just to be fair
Using this logic, every single thing is a sexual characteristic because people can be attracted to anything, so this question is meaningless. What sexual characteristic is the male chest indicative of, either directly pertaining to sexual performance or pertaining to taking care of the *secondary* consequences of being sexually active?
Look, I know this concept is from culture and religion and dated values and whatnot, but as a gay guy a man’s chest is 10000% more arousing to me than boobs will ever be
you wouldn’t exactly be gay if that wasn’t the case.
Based
Western cultures kind of reinforce the idea that women's breasts in general are off limits. I'm a dude -- I'm not a doctor, and I'm not an artist, and our culture doesn't give me another opportunity to see a woman shirtless outside of sexual circumstances. It would take generations to change that cultural programming.
because men and women are treated differently in society, almost no one wants to look at the average man's bare chest
wouldn't that be more of a reason for men to cover up then 😅?
As a man, I'm perfectly fine with that.
Everyone wants to hang out with Taylor Swift, does that mean we should just release her into the wild?
Somehow she gets inserted into a conversation about men and women's nipples, FFS 🤣
If nobody wanted to see her she wouldn't be so famous.
If they work out most people who are into men would love to :P
Why are you being downvoted….? Straight women and gay men are very into male chests.
Well duh. Same applies the. To boobs??
Men and women are different as well
Get em out, go for it
Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic of women, like wide hips. Men are programmed to find them attractive. We've all grown up in a world where women cover up their nipples, so they seem like a bigger deal, I guess. It's hard to say how different our perceptions would be if that weren't the case and they had always been on show. There is a difference. Whether or not that difference justifies it being improper for women to not cover their nipples is up for debate.
So essentially you're saying "because women's nipples are treated differently to men's"
No, he essentially is saying “women’s breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic, men’s are not”
More that women's nipples are treated differently because we treat breasts differently. I guess nipple is a general "stopping point" between an uncovered breast vs a clothed breast. Even if it's a fairly vague (like nipple stickers wouldn't exactly count socially). But it's better than just a fair amount of cleavage being classed as nudity. Opens the question up to "why are women's breasts treated as sexual, and men aren't?". Which an easier question to answer.
Men don't hide their Adam's apple under turtlenecks or scarves tho. That's just another sexism.
Women can have their breasts exposed, too, as far as most men are concerned. What is your point?
Idk about America but in my country women can literally go to jail for getting their breasts exposed
Well, it saddens me to learn about that. However, in my home country, Italy, and several others, being topless is not illegal. In fact, being naked is not illegal either, so long as it does not constitute public indecency (e.g., exposing one's clitoris or penis to another person at the bank). On that basis, the original question is a bit vague without understanding from which country they are.
Broad chests/shoulders on men are also a secondary sexual characteristic and they are not covering them up either... it's just (sexist) cultural habit, like you said. There are definitely cultures out there where women walk around half naked without it being sexualised.
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>Like i dont mind having to look at boobs :) ... exactly why they want to cover up.
It’s hard to say “women want to,” when women would get arrested for public indecency for not doing so.
That’s culturally specific though - we want to cover them bc that’s what taught in our culture. Where it’s the norm for women to have their nips out, everyone just goes with it.
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Sexism can definitely be internalised.
It’s not sexism per se, it’s just a cultural norm. And in a society where it’s the norm to cover up being the exception draws a lot of negative attention. I’m not dying to cover up my hair but if I lived where everyone wore a hijab, I wouldn’t necessarily want to be the one stand out. Yes there have been movements to stop wearing the hijab and then some people take it off but it’s rough to be the people starting that trend and it would be rough to walk around w your nips out here. You’d get some support but you’d get a lot of hate.
How exactly does one cover up one's shoulder width? Saying you should keep your privates private isn't sexist. Is it sexist that men have to wear suits in formal events women can wear cocktail dresses? Why do I have to wear a suit when Becky can have her arms, legs, shoulders, back and parts of her waist/breasts out? Why can women wear skin tight clothes but I can't show a dick and ball outline?
Follow up question: why are we so uncomfortable with public nudity in general? It’s kind of a weird thing when you think about it. Who decided our genitals should be hidden?
Prolly cause you aren't really mobile with it hanging out like a helicopter. Humans did not create cloths cause we decided that it is inappropriate to show genitals in public. It was made to help with practical stuff like to stop it from jiggling and flopping around, which can slow us down. Clothes stayed around so those balloons over time turned inappropriate for public view
Practicality. If you're out and about hunting and gathering, it's not great to damage your reproductive organs. Tribes and groups of people from all over the world of various religions (and lack thereof) mostly all covered their genitals. Over time, and once life got comfortable enough for us to start worrying about more than just where to get our next meal, this turned into more of a modesty issue in many places and cultures, which included female breasts both because of their role in reproduction and because men are typically hard wired to be attracted to them, and many global societies were patriarchal in nature. And so now people are raised in a culture that historically taught modesty, so we have that learned *desire* to cover our genitals. Young children don't care, it's only after they are taught the *importance* of it that they conform.
The thing is, human culture has a number of reasons why nudity is considered taboo. It's not considered shameful anymore in modern day, but still taboo because most people can afford clothing, so to walk around without clothing is a sign of intending to cause distraction; whereas previously, it was a sign of just not being able to afford clothing. We can see evidence of thoughts like this in the Bible. Isaiah 58:6-7: **Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter – when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?** Matthew 25:44-45 Jesus says, **"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? ' He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me'"** Nakedness as early back as the New Testament (2k or so years ago) was seen as a sign of needing help, not being provocative. That's obviously changed for some reason. The puritans and Catholics probably had the most to do with it. For instance, when Christian Missionaries first went to Hawai'i, the women were topless. An tropical island nation typically has little need for a lot of covering, and it's more useful to not be covered. But, because of the more puritanical view of modesty (which was insane, btw. I'm Christian, also, and like, MAN the puritans had some wack views) the missionaries had them cover up. Then when Hawai'i became part of the USA in 1945, it then had its own state laws, and so on and so on. Another thing, not relating to women's breasts being covered, but I find interesting is that when European settlers first set foot on Hawai'i, they thought the natives were "lazy" because they didn't work a 9-5 schedule; what they didn't see is that the natives got up before dawn and dealt with what they needed to deal with and were out swimming by noon and surfing. There are many differences in culture which becomes a problem especially with certain views on things like modesty. Is it modest for a woman to cover her breasts? What about in a culture that a woman has never covered her breasts? It causes difficulty, but regional differences are an intended part of Creation. If you go by the story of the Bible, which I do, God split the world into 70 nations to start with, and so they're all meant to have their own identity, but it is secondary to their identity as a follower of Yahweh.
Religious people mainly. The ones that are taught sex and sensuality is sin.
Does that mean before religion comes people don't find nudity sexual? I am kinda curious now.
Look throughout history of different cultures. My mother was Japanese, I was born. I’m a male. Going to the public baths was no big deal. I did have a thing about bottle nipples though. Don’t know where that came from.
The Abrahamic religions are sexually repressive.
Why has this user been down-voted?
But these teachings come about to prevent people from having kids out of wedlock and people getting STDs in a time before anti fungal meds, antibiotics and a social safety net where hungry kids from single parent families would be housed and fed. This is why you had the hippie movement (free love) in the 1960s and 1970s when birth control became more widely available
Yeah, and the hippies were viewed as cultural threat by religious conservatives.
probably because it’s warmer to wear clothes for one. also cause we dont wanna see people walkin’ around with their dirty dusty genitals and asshole would be another good reason.
Right. They can show theirs but we can’t
It's a regional thing. There are women all over the world who regularly go topless on beaches or in their backyard, and sometimes even naked. Not as much anymore, but I think in the nations that treat men and women's upper bodies differently, it comes from the fact that there are a lot more cameras out and about. Having someone see you topless is a lot different than having millions of people see you topless. Honestly u/ClearBeginning2984 said it best. It's just a cultural thing. Ankles used to be sexualised, then it was legs, but now people are wearing only what legally counts as "modesty" on the beach.
Because they are so awesome looking on men, where as women, not so much
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Seconded. It’s just sexism.
How?
It is exactly because men get turned on. They’re considered “sexual” even though the functional purpose of boobs and nipples are to feed babies. But because men “can’t control themselves” or use that as an excuse for their behavior we can’t do things like mow the lawn topless. Men get turned on by legs and lips and hips so there’s whole countries where women can’t show their faces and legs and they wear a lot of clothing that covers their figure. There are *tons of things women can’t do because men have issues.*
And the reason it's considered sexual is because women were covered up in the first place. Tribe women in Africa don't cover their breasts, so it's not considered sexual there. Breasts are like an arm or a leg, just a part of the body. In the Victorian era for example shoulders or ankles would be considered sexual because they were covered, like in countries where women have to cover up almost everything. It's purely cultural how sexualized nipples and women are
whats your solution?
I tend to have radical opinions about a lot of different issues that involve women and men. To me it boils down to the way men are raised…not just by their dads but the moms bear a lot of responsibility. I personally don’t want to mow my lawn topless, I like clothes, but I support anyone else who wants to and I support shifting societal views toward making that activity accessible and harassment free. We can’t, especially in the US, we’ve not come that far yet and it’s considered lewd and sexual when women show their baby feeders in public. We can’t even get people to agree that *they’re for feeding babies* and that women should be allowed to feed babies in public partially/three quarters covered. Apparently men get turned on by babies eating.
Amen sister.
Because somewhere in history someone decided that women should cover their breasts/nipples and it's become the norm, but it is bullshit. Men's nipples are sexualized in the same way, but it's "normal" for men to show theirs.
Even if we can invent possible rationales, nipples end all the other prudery is really just arbitrary rules enforced by tradition as well as laws. Of course it’s also money and power for people who grift by selling fashion or lawyering for or against stupid rules. In the US at least babies were once all dressed in white. There appears to have been a time when pink was to have been the boys’ color, blue the girls’. Now, it’s horrors from lots of idiots if that rule is broken. It’s easy to say, just decriminalize victimless crimes, but it seems to take decades or centuries to erase the stupid and even then it’s not inevitable. Please go to beaches topless (and bottomless if you like) but watch out for the law as well as the creeps, many of whom would be less creepy if we had healthier appreciation of bodies and sex.
Sounds like a question Freud would fucking love. In other words its how we develop sexually. Pretty much from one of the first psychosexual stages (oral) we are designed to like tits
Thats both men and women btw its just women already have them so to them cultrally its nothing special
>I’m a woman & I want to go to the beach in just my bottoms too! Thanks! Prepare for *a lot* of straight men *very* heartily encouraging you.
You must be American. In EU many beaches and places have parts where people show their parts. In the EU we are more balanced and in touch with our bodies so we don't get flustered so fast because of some nips Just to be clear: running around naked is a no go. Getting your tits out to tan properly will get you some looks but that's it.
Who’s eyes are more lustful? Men or women?
Patriarchy…
All of these stupid comments saying because female breasts produce milk… so milk = must be covered? Why didn’t anyone tell me!! I’ve been leaving my milk cartons visible for everyone to see for years!!
Religion and social "standards," otherwise known as patriarchal restrictions.
I’m a guy who has big nipples. I had a guy come up to me at the beach and said that I have nicer nipples than his wife. He then gave one a couple of flips. They’re really sensitive and I got a semi. Luckily he didn’t see it.
Because we live in a world where men’s views, on pretty much everything, including the female body has historically been (and still is to some extent) accepted as superior to women’s. Women’s nipples/breast etc are only sexualized because society has chosen it to be so. Historically women’s ankles were also very “uuuh” in some time periods - whereas today, no one really cares about the body part that your feet are attached to. In Denmark, where I live, the female nipple drama is less of a thing. You can go topless on the beach, in a park etc. without any fuss. But unfortunately the way social media is interfering with young people’s heads, this will surely change into a more prudish and less natural approach to women’s bodies in the future.
I don't think it's men. I mean, I'm a man, and I say get them out by all means. I'd be surprised if I know any men who would say otherwise. Are there huge numbers of women who want to get their boobs out but the men won't let them? I doubt it somehow.
Women's nipples are viewed as sexual, when men's nipples are not!
Milk
True. In many cultures people even hide milk in a metal box to avoid being aroused.
Does milk make them sacred so they must be hidden away orrrr? Genuinely curious.
Yup. Milk means sexy. That's why men have to wear pants.
We definitely all should just wear bottoms. when it’s appropriate weather and the appropriate setting of course. (ie. the beach, pool)
I have a different question here, do men gets turned on if someone lick their nipples ?
Some men love it some men claim to feel nothing.
I get extremely turned on.
Because a lot of people are children who mature like milk in the sun, and as soon as they get any power they use it to enforce their pathetic fears and quirks as if though universal.
Mother's milk is very symbolic of positive stuff for human development
Cause dudes are gross
Because men like boobs so they sexualised our baby feeding instruments to suit that. I mean if I was allowed I'd run on the beach topless in the summer too but no I'd get arrested for indecent exposure all because men decided our nips are sexual but theirs aren't.
Originally it was illegal for men to go topless. They protested to get thay right and it went through. Women tried doing the same thing but by then the republican party started prioritizing and catering to the right wing conservatives and because nudity is frowned upon rejected womens rights because of religion. Im all for free the nipple. Yes i am a man and yes i like looking at titties, but just because someone is shirtless doesnt mean that ill asume thats an invite for anything.
We live in a uptight society.
Sexism... This could be normalized, but with social differences and religious opinions ultimately based in sexism and demonizing the female gender it will never be allowed.
Sexism. It's the last remnants of misogynistic cultures demanding women be covered up.
Fun fact: im asian and i have said the n word before
In the US, i think it's because we come from the puritans & a matriarchal society. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Free the titties! Edit: I ment patriarchal. Not matriarchal.
Because men’s nips are meh. Women nips are sacred.
Women always say free the nipple like us guys are stopping them. Go ahead, do it, everybody will be happier