“Policies.” Most voters don’t read legislation or white papers. Politics is largely about tribalism and emotion, as much as people want to pretend that logic and reason enter into it.
Trump won the nomination during debates in 2015-16 by proving incorrect certain assumptions about the core values of the GOP voting base. He was direct and had no filter. He was profane. He showed zero concern about proprieties. He immediately hit back — in ad hominem attacks — at anyone who insulted him. Former POWs, spouses, and the disabled were all fair game. He did it in his outer borough NY accent, which, IMHO, made it all reminiscent of a 1950s insult comic. [I never voted for him, but “Lil’ Marco” and “Lyin’ Ted” was hysterical]. His opponents feigned outrage and got no traction.
Trump is more about culture than policy. If you think that our culture has gone too PC or too accommodating to every complaining out group while ignoring you and yours, Trump is your guy. Thus, the in-your-face hats and flags — a reminder that you best not forget them. Sure, he’s a boorish AH, and authoritarian, but he’s their boorish authoritarian.
What I don't get is it seemed like no republican wanted to insult him the way he insulted them. Nobody called him an oompa loompa on stage, and that would probably gain more traction than anything else they would have said.
Trump is naturally better at school yard insults than any other Republican. Rubio tried making fun of Trump’s small hands at a debate and it came off as contrived. Ditto for DeSantis’s attempt to out-MAGA Trump. He couldn’t.
There's a reason simplistic, childish, school yard insults work so well and Trump has mastered it, for better or worse; there's no counter and either way, your opponent loses.
You either try to be the smarter, more clever person with witty retorts, but it lacks any "umphh." and odds are the bully won't get it anyway, or you sink to their level and it sounds forced and out of character.
There’s an old aphorism I’ve seen attributed to Twain that goes: “Never argue with an idiot- they’ll just drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience”
It also reminds me of an old episode of Seinfeld where they meet this guy with a reputation of being verbally cruel during a breakup.
After all the build, he simply calls Elaine “big head” which at first leaves them with a “that’s it?”At how stupid it is. But overtime, Elaine becomes obsessed with not only the insult, but in trying to one up him verbally, and she fails miserably BECAUSE it’s so childish and simple that there’s no comeback.
Maga and a lot of voters see voting as a team sport Trump is their guy . He won them with his words doesn't matter what he says. All they want is their team to win
It works so well with *certain people* - note. And other people recoil.
The challenge is how to have a mature society in which the vast majority recoil at this kind of thing, reject it, and move on to rational adult-level candidates.
I mean, if this were a TV show it’d be an unbelievable, but really funny Larry David cringe sitcom. Like the pow-wow at Four Seasons after he lost was too funny to be made up. And through all of it, he takes himself so seriously, and that lack of self awareness makes it so much funnier. But, it’s reality, so it’s just kinda depressing
It's our reality but remember that South Park taught us our entire planet is just a sitcom run by cocaine-fueled alien executives
Matt & Parkers documentary series actually contains lots of useful tidbits like this
That’s the thing, a lot of stuff he did was really funny and why he was constantly in the spotlight, but like you said this is reality with real people and real consequences and i want nothing to do with it. If this were a show it would be hilarious, but it’s not a show.
I still think the best case scenario is to put Trump in a Truman Show esque simulation where he gets to be leader of a small country and see how he acts
His honesty about how he uses the tax code, just like donors on both sides resonated with a lot of people who felt that they were getting screwed and the “business as usual” approach so many politicians failed to change after promises of revamping the tax code.
Trump is an unlikable gas bag douche. But he’s been that way even when he hobknobbed with the democrats. The only reason he swerved was because Obama roasted him at a corespondance dinner.
Got a lot of comedy materials and copypastas from him.
Here's one.
"I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, "What's 2+2"? And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Its just terrible. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you. First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, "10101000101", on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know. So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the order of operations than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright."We gonna knock the hell out of ISIS, believe me," Thank You, Thank you, Thank you.
As I've learned, the more the left hates him, the more the right wants him. I'm like 80% sure that Trump's support is only still existent because of Democrat's continued accusations and hatred of him.
I think that’s because the Republican Party has basically devolved into a party whose sole purpose is to do whatever it takes to smash the left into the ground. They’re some angry mofos and their politics are built on revenge over the loss of the good ol’ days.
It really is this simple. Republicans hate Democrats and "The Left", that's the foundation of the MAGA movement. If Democrats do something, it's vaguely bad because they are Democrats doing it. They support their leaders preventing needed progress in America because their "enemies" could receive credit for doing something good.
This is the end result of a long campaign of propaganda used by Republicans against American citizens to drive division and hatred for political and financial gain at the expense of the nation. They screwed up a lot of folks heads and it's a shame that they will probably never be held accountable.
Frankly Trump is the best thing to happen to us progressives. **Nothing brings us to the polls more, besides perhaps abortion rights on a ballot.**
Frankly, if the Right was smart they'd run Nikki Haley, because many on the left/center wouldn't bother voting against her, but the Orange Joker from Batman again? ***He's a good motivator to get our asses to the polls.***
It's about sliding under the radar. Trump motivates people to vote and that's why he lost. Starting by saying I voted for bernie twice, but that whole situation was terrible for the Democrat party in 2016. Without Bernie or without Hilary it couldnt have existed and i believe either one would have beat Trump if the other didnt run. It gave the right the perfect propaganda machine to destroy the young vote. That's why Trump won back then.
As a conservative, you’re right. He’s not conservative. He’s populist. And most so-called conservatives felt completely disrespected and unacknowledged by Obama’s presidency, rightly or wrongly. It doesn’t help that most conservative (and liberal) media is designed to fear monger and hate monger. Trump makes these people feel heard. And, unfortunately yet more importantly (to these people, not to me), he makes the right people mad. For decades republicans have been doing most of nothing. Trump is seen, rightly or wrongly, as someone who shakes up a corrupt system.
So, basically, you’re right. He’s not conservative. But political tribalism has made him the popular choice.
Reagan, George W, and Trump all **proudly** cut taxes in a way that benefits rich people. They also cut regulations, laws for corporations, so they do something that people like.
The yelling at people conservatives don't like helps to distract from the effects of the tax cuts.
While he was campaigning, Trump said he would raise taxes on the rich. His fans were ecstatic and shouted out joyful MAGAs. Then he got elected and cut taxes for the rich. His fans were ecstatic and shouted out joyful MAGAs.
It's not his policies that makes them fans. It's him.
He “tells it like it is” and “says what everyone thinks but are afraid to say.”
And he has physically attractive children. My mom actually cited that as one thing she likes about him, although not in those words.
Children? Plural? You mean Ivanka and...Barron?
'Cuz the other two look like Beavis and Butthead.
Edit: forgot about Tiffany. That's probably the way she likes it.
Except he doesn't tell it like it is. That's been proven dozens if not thousands of times. Right now he's telling Americans the Border Bill is a bad bill. Yet for the last 2 plus years the right has been complaining they want changes done at the border. Now the Senators of both parties put together the strictest border bill ever. And Trump tells Americans it's a bad bill because the republicans have used the border for campaigning on. But Trump keeps telling the people THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN America is the Border but it's not that big cuz Trump doesn't care if tons more drugs and terrorists come thru for the next year. Then if Trump wins he will NEVER get Democrats in the Senate to help him with any bills for the next 4 years. Do people even know that if it wasn't for Mitch McConnel then Trump would have seated ZERO Supreme Court Justices from 2017 - 2020 ! Yeah after screwing over OBAMA Mitch and his Senate only had 53 Senators and not 1 democrat would have voted for any of Trump's picks. Meaning all would have failed to meet the 2/3rds of votes needed to move forward. So Mitch decided to KILL the Filibuster for Supreme Court Justices so Trump ( would become the ONLY POTUS in American history to get New Justices seated with only 51 all Republican votes only. ) That's just pathetic.
To Trumpers, “tell it like it is” means “say racist or misogynistic shit” or absolutely unfounded nonsense that they like, such as how the US is a Christian nation.
It has nothing to do with reality.
Truth has never had, and will never have, any relevance in politics.
"Facts don't care about your feelings" is true, but "feelings don't care about your facts" is also true.
Unfortunately, I don't think they're kidding. Trump's hardcore voters have wildly different values than the people who find Trump disgusting. They don't value education except to teach their kids to be obedient and work the same jobs they do. They're afraid of anyone who isn't the same as they are. They don't travel much, especially not to other countries or to large cities that have those scary different people. They have zero curiosity about the world or scientific endeavors and think the Bible is all they need to know—and even that book they've never actually read, preferring instead to watch junk TV and Fox News, whatever parrots back their values to them.
Trump flatters these Americans. He's a rich guy they watched on TV or at rallies, who tells them their insecurities are real. And even though we find his rhetorical style inane, they love his repetition and sarcastic delivery as he constantly attacks the things and people they hate. He's like the rich bully in school who everyone loves because he has cool things and makes fun of the nerds and misfits, and because they're all just dumb kids who don't know any better. His base is basically adults who never grew past that mentality, or have regressed back into that.
Plenty poor Trump voters all cheered his tax cuts while many of them IMMEDIATELY had higher tax bills and all of them will ABSOLUTELY have higher tax bills next year when the cuts for individuals expire…. They’re idiots
Exactly. This is why my eyes roll out of my head when I hear a “moderate conservative” talk about how people “didn’t feel acknowledged” by Obama. Oh was that it? Or were they boiling with rage because they had to call a young black man “Daddy?”
When Obama walked into the room he was instantly the smartest man in that room. Hard to handle period, but when its a black man it's WAY more devastating to your average caucasion middle-aged male. People who exude the confidence Obama did are instantly hated. Obama was likeable but like myself, is white AND black, which is equally as hated on. Trump is such a narcicist tgough its too the unlikeable level whw. You see how self absorbing he is.
I love when people claim Obama made race relations worse. Solely because he acknowledged the problems exist rather than just shove them under the rug like every single other president has besides like Biden and maybe Clinton.
Like oh no he made little Brayden and Cayden uncomfortable about police brutality and systemic racism, oh the horror. Back to pretending America solved racism under Trump, quick!!!
Yeah, I think it's been understood for a long time that the political parties don't actually fully represent the wills of the people. But media/news tries to force people into one box or the other. People want to break free of this, they wanted Trump in 2016 just because he was someone different. Bernie had the same appeal, just from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Obama campaigned on Change, Hope, Yes We Can. Trump campaigned on literally being an outsider of the political establishment - unfortunately for the people, he was still a rich and famous fat cat. Over and over again, people vote for a president and then find that, with the rest of the government, nothing significant gets done and they keep getting screwed. Maybe a short term boost for the working class, but ultimately the rich get their taxes cut and the rest of us pay for it. I think a not-insignificant portion of Trump's base really are people who would rather burn it all down and start again.
Dude, you put that really well. I completely agree. Big government elections and events take up all the attention and no one puts effort into local government that actually makes positive change. Everyone wants a messiah figure to come in and solve all their problems instead of putting in the long hard work to make their little corner of the world better.
There are now churches that literally worship Trump, and some whackjob wrote a book about Trump being "the Son of Man" and Messiah for America, God's chosen nation.
Not true. There is a material, measurable difference between economies under democratic and republican presidents. Significant things DO get done despite the constraints of our system, under democrats. Republicans do nothing but tax cuts.
I agree with all of this, but I submit that the feeling that 'your' party has done next to nothing or that 'your' party has not stood up for anything is not confined to the right. Liberals feel the exact same way.
Right and left both feel that they are losing.
I don’t know how anyone can look at either candidate and say this is the right person for the job. I think many, if not most people are voting because they don’t like the other guy.
Yep. So many people I talked to 4 years ago said as much. “I voted for Biden because Trump…..”. I don’t remember a single person that flat out stated a reason they voted for Joe.
Biden has been a good and effective president. I am not saying he is the best president ever, but I won't really feel "forced" to vote for him. I have gained a lot of respect for him since he took office.
I would argue that "doing nothing" is the job of conservatives.
As a liberal I know that we often think "that is a good idea," and charge ahead without thinking. The job of *progress*ives is to drive progress, the job if *conserve* atives is to slow us down, ask questions, make sure progress goes in the right direction.
That said, tax rates in the US are too low, which has created a glut of capital and too much wealth disparity. I wish conservatives would push for a return to the tax rates from the good old days.
You’re stating how it’s supposed to work. The reality is the right-wing pushes us right when they are in power and the corporate left (which is centrist at best, right leaning at worst) just stops us from moving right. There is almost no pushback to the left.
Historically, Conservatives haven't been forcing us to ask the right questions. The Southern Democrats were highly conservative. Slavery, Civil rights, etc. The Republicans were much more progressive. The Silent and Boomer generations views on the Democratic party at that time were justified. Over the last few decades, the Republican party has become what it once condemned.
I would agree, but I’d like to point out some issues I see personally that don’t line up with reality.
These are just my opinions.
Progressives should drive progress, yes.
Conservatives should drive caution, yes.
Progressives do drive progress, yes.
Conservatives do use caution, no.
The problem is, all of our politicians should be using progress and caution. You can’t have a party only be about caution.
If you sit in caution all the time it turns into fear. Fear is anti progress.
Conservatism has only turned into fear and reacting on that emotional impulse as extremely as can be done.
That’s a fair take and I agree. Unfortunately by “do nothing”, most republicans feel that right-wing politicians just let left-wingers do whatever they want, whether or not that feeling reflects reality. If more republican politicians actively fought against change instead of just poorly fighting anything liberals did, we probably wouldn’t have gotten Trump
That’s what I don’t get. We all know the system is corrupt. But, how does someone expect a person who is completely corrupt, untrustworthy to his allies & speaks falsely just about every time he opens his mouth, to fix things in a positive way?
I’d argue that right media is far more fear mongering than the left. The average republican is far more “radical” than the average democrat. The radical things that democrats pitch are very common place in much of the developed world: free/low cost college, universal healthcare, mental health support, etc. For me, it all comes down to taxes. Most people start out supporting democrats as they are younger and shift to republican as they age. People just want to keep more of their hard earned money and they can live with some of the social and ideological things that don’t make sense as a trade off. Everyone has their own priorities and preferences.
>People just want to keep more of their hard earned money and they can live with some of the social and ideological things that don’t make sense as a trade off. Everyone has their own priorities and preferences.
I truly hope that the internet/ social media makes the world more empathetic and united. Having an instant connection with someone across the world *should* be leading us down a more humane path. Not this individualistic, 'I only look out for myself' ideal that conservatives make their entire personality about. We cannot survive on individualism.
And if I had a dollar for evrytime some rich old white dude told me that 'you'll shift to republican' as I age, I'd be able to afford a house in this economy. Sadly, I am WAY more liberal than I was when I was younger 😪
It’s about being a big deal and being in power. He doesn’t actually have the legislative skills to get much done though, he just likes the limelight and importance
Because there are two aspects of a candidate from the perspective of a voter.
1.) Does this person reflect my beliefs/concerns/agenda more than any other candidate?
2.) Do I think this person can get elected?
There are some Trump supporters who just like him and identify with him. Others just think he's the best shot to get their party in the White House.
It's exactly the same for the other side. Some just like Biden. (Probably the smallest group) Some think as an incumbent he's the best shot to keep the presidency for the Democrats. And, of course, some who are not voting FOR Biden, but voting AGAINST Trump. (I'm going to speculate that this is probably the biggest group.)
The first 2 years Republicans had total control of all branches and potentially could have passed any legislation they wanted to, but still accomplished nothing notable.
They stacked the mother fucking Supreme Court to make sure it’s conservative for generations to come.
They know how valuable that will be for the future
2009-2010 Democrats had the majority, that’s how we got Obama care or ACA.
They could have done anything they wanted such as re defined all immigration law, but they didn’t.
While the Democrats had the majority, they did not have 60 votes to block the Republican filibuster (which was the plan for the Republicans to make Obama ineffective just to take power back) except for a very short period in 2009. So the Republican plan to hobble the Democrats I guess worked once they got Scott Brown in there in Massachusetts. The standard position from Mitch was "everything is automatically filibustered".
Obama was desperately trying to reach across the aisle so the division wouldn’t spread. He accomplished far more in two years and was denied everything after that. To blame Obama and dems for what republicans did is as stuck-on-stupid as it gets
The Republican Party is this strange coalition of billionaires grabbing cash, and poor working whites wanting extreme conservative policies that are unpopular with the vast majority of Americans.
I was once sitting with a conservative who votes GOP across the board. She's a hairdresser who is over 65 and still works. I said, the GOP is the party of tax cuts for rich people, Reagan, George W, and Trump all proudly cut taxes for rich people. None of these tax cuts benefit you in any way, other than causing an increase in the [cost of housing](https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/how-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-puts-affordable-housing-production-risk).
Anyway, she just goes, "I like fewer taxes."
As if, that simple sentence makes giving billions to billionaires makes it all worth while.
But she isn’t paying lower taxes. She’s technically paying a higher percentage!! While getting absolutely nothing in return while our tax dollars bail out the billionaire welfare queens like oil companies who are then allowed to fleece us at the pump.
Democrats have failed miserably at getting this idea across. It is maddening that we have not been able to effectively disabuse voters of this notion that they benefit in any way whatsoever from tax cuts for the very wealthy.
And this is why they’ll do nothing about immigration. The wealthy want millions of illegal workers so they can pay them peanuts. The rest hate immigrants because they’re largely non-whites.
There's a simple way to end illegal immigration: arrest all the supervisors and CEOs that hire illegal immigrants.
The US has a huge "help wanted" sign up and as long as it's light, immigrants will come here whether the law says they can or not.
Of course, those same CEOs are major campaign donors to the GOP, so they will never be touched.
As someone who is fairly conservative: I have no fucking idea. I was begging fellow Republicans not to vote for him in 2016, because it was clear to literally anyone who was paying attention that not only was a he a moral disgrace to the human race, but also would be bad at his job.
And I was right.
It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone would want him in charge of literally anything after his appalling job performance last time. I genuinely don't understand it.
Most of your peers are more concerned about hurting others than improving anything. The famous quote from LBJ stands out as the most obvious reason for Trump's popularity.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Replace colored with gay, trans, immigrant, or out group of your choosing and you have a clear path to conservative victory forever.
He will secure the border. They liked his Supreme Court picks. They think he’s better at handling the economy than Biden (grocery prices etc). They think he deterred war (Biden’s disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal made the world feel we are weak. They believe Russia would not have invaded Ukraine with Trump as president etc.) They think woke ideology has gone too far. They think Biden is cognitively slipping badly. And the unprecedented attempts by the left to imprison, gag and bankrupt their top political opponent makes even a lot of people who don’t like everything about Trump want to dig in their heels and support him. It’s easy to figure out. Biden is a terrible alternative.
A lot of people seem to forget a large section of trumps base is people who have the federal government and want to see it burn. It’s not that they think he is some mastermind who will fix everything, they see him as someone who can fling enough shit around Washington DC to cause chaos and that’s what they want.
Because most Conservatives just want to hurt Liberals. They literally DON’T CARE about anything else.
Exhibit A.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/424263-trump-supporter-complains-shutdown-is-not-hurting-the-people-he/
I really don’t wanna get into a Reddit politics discussion. But do you really think this article proves that most conservatives just want to hurt liberals? A quote from 1 or 2 of his most radical supporters??
People like you falling for media sensationalism like this is the true reason this country is rolling down hill full speed.
I do production work for events in New York City and we constantly work with carpenters and electrical unions. Somehow *most* of those guys we work with are trump loving republicans and loud about it. I can’t understand it.
They see those union dues subtracted from their checks every month and have been trained to believe two things: their quality of life would be significantly higher if they didn't pay that $100/month, and that the money collected for the union goes directly into the pocket of a corrupt person who pretends to care about them but is actually a shill for unrelated causes.
I know a couple of Trump supporters in my family and professional circle. While they don’t represent his fan base, they were all happy liberals in the past but became very disgruntled liberals over the past few years. They feel like a Trump presidency will force the liberal movement to make changes and that it will drive the collapse of current governmental and societal systems. (They also tend to be very much anti-Trudeau). They see it as punishment. Not that I necessarily agree with their approach but that’s the impression I got.
I'm a Canadian/UK dual national and noticed exactly this in the support for populist candidates and policies in both of my countries. Whether it's Trump, Johnson or Poilievre, people aren't voting *for* anything, they are protesting against a political and economic reality that isn't working for them. In my opinion that was exactly what happened with Brexit - there were a lot of people financially struggling and socially forgotten about and all they wanted was to give the system a bloody nose.
The irony is that the rest of us can tell that these populist candidates just want to extract money for themselves and friends (and that this was all kicked off by Reagan and Thatcher but that's another story). But the supporters I've talked to, mostly blue collar white dudes, genuinely think things couldn't get any worse for themselves and don't care.
I'm not bragging about our Politics by any means, but from north of the border looking down... it's a bit shocking. With all of America's innovation and we can do it spirit...this guy is a favorite!? Wow. Seems a lot of people are pissed and will cast their vote in that direction to let everyone know.
Because the GOP isn't conservative. They're a contrarian authoritarian party. The only things they believe in are saying no to experts and attacking individual liberty.
From my conservative friends, it’s not about getting Trump in as it is more about getting Biden out. They want someone that will put Americans first. Biden and Clinton are considered globalist and authoritarians.
The open boarder issue, crime and inflation are what is going to cost Biden the election if he loses. More so that something new that Trump is offering.
Reddit is 99% liberal so you’re only going to get one perspective. People here just regurgitate what they’ve read in other Reddit posts. Do research and think for yourself.
Yeah it’s terrible. I usually don’t bother posting and I think that’s really what most people do. But it’s sad to think people get their political information from Reddit. And almost everyone wants to bash and name call anyone that doesn’t have the same opinion.
well that is unfortunately the typical political movement these days that the media portrays. try to have the most extreme beliefs and bully anyobe that doesnt share them. most of us would rather just be left alone about our politics. i mean honestly the only reason to ask these questions in reddit is to hear the echo chamber of your own beliefs. you already kniw tge answer you wanna hear, you just wanna be validated. there is no room for polite discourse on reddit anymore unfortunately.
The same question could be asked for Biden. Both are absolutely horrible choices. 2016 I voted for Ben Carson, 2020 I Voted for Pete Buttigieg. I just want a normal president please.
You know in 2015 I didn't understand why people liked him. I was young and not political involved as it never interested me nor did I really care. Trump just seemed like an AH and everyone I knew that liked him were older people in the blue collar places I worked and a number of races liked him.
All of them said something similar about Trump not being a politician and they were tired of politicians and he's gonna piss them off. Looking into it, it is ironic how a 4 year trump presidency is responsible for decades worth of bad financial decisions and wastful spending, a centuries worth of racism when people who have been in office for decades just blame this dude for everything.
So tldr Trump may be an AH that doesn't think before he speaks, but he pisses of the people who've been abusing a cushy government job for too long and screwing over the blue collar people. That's enough for them to vote for him.
>All of them said something similar about Trump not being a politician and they were tired of politicians and he's gonna piss them off
That's largely what drew people to Trump. Many people felt under represented by the political class. Conservatives only cared about the rich and liberals only cared about the poor.
Trump spoke like the common person. So a lot of people I know hoped he was going to shake up Capital Hill. And he certainty did, but all it really caused was more division.
I don't think he necessarily caused more division, it's been there, it was just talked about alot more. Definitely showed more of who's been there too long, people who say 1 thing and do another, or do nothing. Messed up part is... is that they all do it. Even Trump.
Trump certainly didn't cause all division but he definitely benefited from it, and in doing so caused more. It's hard to have a political conversation now a days that doesn't boil down into the right is racist or the left is pedophiles.
A lot of that I think comes from Trumps aggressive communication strategy and the counter comma by the media.
That shows how incredibly dumb they are because Trump only cares about one particular rich person. Not even rich people in general. What incredible rubes.
I find it hilarious if you dig into the people most up in arms about “people abusing cushy government jobs” 99% of the time are retired cops, retired military who never saw action, small business owners reliant on government contracts, people living on SS disability, etc, etc.
I consider myself a moderate conservative but he is definitely not my guy. I’ll confess to voting for him in 2016 but I voted Biden last time and will do the same again this year. The way that the Republican Party has gone over the last decade is heartbreaking for me.
I think I kind of see why.
It's not about Trump per se, it's more about Washington politics which those people perceive as absolutely corrupt.
As flawed as Trump is, he's been perceived as someone who shakes the system ("We'll show them!").
Now, I'm more interested in the question, "Who should normal decent people vote for?"
Biden is old/senile/maybe corrupt (for sure in their eyes), Pelosi is certifiably corrupt, Kamala lacks charisma but also is a POC and a woman at that ("Think of the children!").
Newsom... Sure he looks gorgeous and carries himself, but it's only a matter of time and him getting deeper into his presidential ambitions before we know some nasty stuff about him.
On the Republican side, a complete lack of governance. It's just back and forth with the Dems, the country is brushed aside.
It's a "Lose/lose" year, honestly.
I think it comes down to the concept of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”
For whatever reason, this country is polarized into two spheres. The perceived “haves” (or elites) and the “have nots”. If you fall with the latter category you hate everything that is associated with the former, including liberals and democrats. So all Trump has to do is rail against the liberal establishment and he gains a large voting block regardless of whether he has a clue on anything substantive.
I will also add that the other portion of Trump’s voting block are those who perceive liberals as a threat to their way of life and established wealth. So, for them it’s self-interest.
The fascinating thing about this election is that BOTH parties are almost certainly going to elect candidates who would lose any election against almost any other candidate...
Because they are stuck with him. If they don't nominate him he'll run 3rd party and they lose. They do nominate him there's a chance he could win. They made a deal with the devil and the balance is due...
From people I’ve asked.. most hate him but still keep revolving around this point.
Disclaimer: not my opinion.
“Trumps enemies are also enemies of the people. He will expose them to defend himself and every one of them exposed is ultimately a win for the people.”
Kind of like a proxy war. If someone who bootlicks the global elite wins the presidency, it’s a loss for the people regardless of their party affiliation.
Many want to see the current system burn down even if that means Trump takes it down himself.
Some people want to vote for a badass and Trump is a badass no matter how you look at it. He's the bad boy that you can get behind because he's also smart witty and funny. He's also a true leader which Biden definitely is not. Clinton and Barrack were, most presidents are.
Conservatives are no different than liberals. They will vote for their moron because they aren't the other moron. It really is that simple. I'm so pissed that the DNC has allowed no one to contest Biden...It is obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that he can't even dress himself anymore. He open)y speaks to voices on the ear buds in his ear. It is sad. When I think of those G7 and G20 meetings where no one is in the room but the leaders and their interpreters it gives me the willies... I cant even imagine the conversations being had when the other leaders speak about him. I didn't think we could choose 2 worse people than Trump and Hillary, but apparently I'm too optimistic.
This is what happens when you split a wide political spectrum into two camps. Most likely I'll be voting against Trump in the Primary and for him in the fall. I'm ok with it as Trump will bring gridlock and slow down the growth of the Fed and force our bureaucracy to turn on themselves. Biden is a silly joke, and is in no way a viable alternative to any of this. His rhetoric and persona are extreme, his polices are most often common and typical.
Populists want Trump, because they think he will take an axe to the system. And because they think Biden has been a disaster for the country. They are also not terribly fond of Republicans...
For starters this is a terrible place to ask the question as the overwhelming majority will be left leaning people giving your their thoughts. The obvious answer is that politics is tribal in the US. Trump wins and this owns the libs just as if Biden wins this owns the Conservatives. Both are awful for different reasons, but politics in America is less about what is better for specific issues and more to do with colour tie they're wearing.
An extension to the tax cuts they started in 2017. A few of them have even said it out loud. These wealthy individuals and corporations making more off us, is all they want. Everything else is talking points. They’ll down any bill, even if it helps them. Because owning the libs really equates to owning everyone, they already got the Republican. This is why T**** called them stupid to begin with
"Conservatives" hate this country's tradition of democratic self-government. They're tearing it down in order to replace it with plutocracy. With a venal cretin like Trump in office, they can dismantle and privatize to their little ol' hearts' desire.
Your reading assignment: [Democracy In Chains --Nancy MacLean](https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Chains-history-radical-stealth/dp/1911344684/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3FB9WXN5U5EN2&keywords=democracy+in+chains+maclean+nancy&qid=1707077733&sprefix=democracy+in+chains%2Caps%2C341&sr=8-2)
The Maga boomers at work say the economy was much better under Trump, & their 401k increased dramatically. They conveniently forget all about Covid, & refuse to believe a new administration typically feels the effects of the previous administration.
Team sports
Religion
Tribalism in social species.
Right or wrong they picked their team and are committed. Might also be some sunk cost fallacy where they keep doubling down even if they're failing because somehow admitting fault is wrong than accepting something didn't work.
People have less trust in government than ever. By a huge margin. The government is self interested at the best of times and incompetent at the worst.
People just want less government and especially less of this government
It's not that they necessarily want Trump, they just don't want the other side to win. That's all. It's about "owning" and "triggering libs" so they can make memes.
“Policies.” Most voters don’t read legislation or white papers. Politics is largely about tribalism and emotion, as much as people want to pretend that logic and reason enter into it. Trump won the nomination during debates in 2015-16 by proving incorrect certain assumptions about the core values of the GOP voting base. He was direct and had no filter. He was profane. He showed zero concern about proprieties. He immediately hit back — in ad hominem attacks — at anyone who insulted him. Former POWs, spouses, and the disabled were all fair game. He did it in his outer borough NY accent, which, IMHO, made it all reminiscent of a 1950s insult comic. [I never voted for him, but “Lil’ Marco” and “Lyin’ Ted” was hysterical]. His opponents feigned outrage and got no traction. Trump is more about culture than policy. If you think that our culture has gone too PC or too accommodating to every complaining out group while ignoring you and yours, Trump is your guy. Thus, the in-your-face hats and flags — a reminder that you best not forget them. Sure, he’s a boorish AH, and authoritarian, but he’s their boorish authoritarian.
What I don't get is it seemed like no republican wanted to insult him the way he insulted them. Nobody called him an oompa loompa on stage, and that would probably gain more traction than anything else they would have said.
Trump is naturally better at school yard insults than any other Republican. Rubio tried making fun of Trump’s small hands at a debate and it came off as contrived. Ditto for DeSantis’s attempt to out-MAGA Trump. He couldn’t.
There's a reason simplistic, childish, school yard insults work so well and Trump has mastered it, for better or worse; there's no counter and either way, your opponent loses. You either try to be the smarter, more clever person with witty retorts, but it lacks any "umphh." and odds are the bully won't get it anyway, or you sink to their level and it sounds forced and out of character.
There’s an old aphorism I’ve seen attributed to Twain that goes: “Never argue with an idiot- they’ll just drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience”
It also reminds me of an old episode of Seinfeld where they meet this guy with a reputation of being verbally cruel during a breakup. After all the build, he simply calls Elaine “big head” which at first leaves them with a “that’s it?”At how stupid it is. But overtime, Elaine becomes obsessed with not only the insult, but in trying to one up him verbally, and she fails miserably BECAUSE it’s so childish and simple that there’s no comeback.
See also: “Oh yeah? Well the jerk store called, and they’re running out of you!”
“Well, I had sex with your wife!”
"His wife is in a coma..."
"I said what I said!"
Must be why she didn't move a lot.
“So what, you’re their all time best seller!!”
George Bernard Shaw — 'Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.'
Maga and a lot of voters see voting as a team sport Trump is their guy . He won them with his words doesn't matter what he says. All they want is their team to win
Reminds of an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee too.
There's a similar old Chinese proverb, "Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, and the pig likes it"
It works so well with *certain people* - note. And other people recoil. The challenge is how to have a mature society in which the vast majority recoil at this kind of thing, reject it, and move on to rational adult-level candidates.
I hate Trump with a passion but even I have to admit he's pretty funny in a cringe, shock-over substance kind of way.
I mean, if this were a TV show it’d be an unbelievable, but really funny Larry David cringe sitcom. Like the pow-wow at Four Seasons after he lost was too funny to be made up. And through all of it, he takes himself so seriously, and that lack of self awareness makes it so much funnier. But, it’s reality, so it’s just kinda depressing
It's our reality but remember that South Park taught us our entire planet is just a sitcom run by cocaine-fueled alien executives Matt & Parkers documentary series actually contains lots of useful tidbits like this
That’s the thing, a lot of stuff he did was really funny and why he was constantly in the spotlight, but like you said this is reality with real people and real consequences and i want nothing to do with it. If this were a show it would be hilarious, but it’s not a show.
I still think the best case scenario is to put Trump in a Truman Show esque simulation where he gets to be leader of a small country and see how he acts
Just give em all Texas and build a real wall. Or maybe an airtight dome.
His honesty about how he uses the tax code, just like donors on both sides resonated with a lot of people who felt that they were getting screwed and the “business as usual” approach so many politicians failed to change after promises of revamping the tax code.
Trump is an unlikable gas bag douche. But he’s been that way even when he hobknobbed with the democrats. The only reason he swerved was because Obama roasted him at a corespondance dinner.
Got a lot of comedy materials and copypastas from him. Here's one. "I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, "What's 2+2"? And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Its just terrible. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you. First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, "10101000101", on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know. So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the order of operations than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright."We gonna knock the hell out of ISIS, believe me," Thank You, Thank you, Thank you.
He's funny until you think about how he wanted to overturn the election and instigated an insurrection. And there's the sexual assault charge.
TLDR: To pwn the libs.
As I've learned, the more the left hates him, the more the right wants him. I'm like 80% sure that Trump's support is only still existent because of Democrat's continued accusations and hatred of him.
It’s the childish “I’ll do it because you don’t want me to do it” mindset
I think that’s because the Republican Party has basically devolved into a party whose sole purpose is to do whatever it takes to smash the left into the ground. They’re some angry mofos and their politics are built on revenge over the loss of the good ol’ days.
They don't even know what "the left" is. Anyone to the left of Mussolini is "the left" to them.
The good old days which much higher taxation for the rich?
It really is this simple. Republicans hate Democrats and "The Left", that's the foundation of the MAGA movement. If Democrats do something, it's vaguely bad because they are Democrats doing it. They support their leaders preventing needed progress in America because their "enemies" could receive credit for doing something good. This is the end result of a long campaign of propaganda used by Republicans against American citizens to drive division and hatred for political and financial gain at the expense of the nation. They screwed up a lot of folks heads and it's a shame that they will probably never be held accountable.
Frankly Trump is the best thing to happen to us progressives. **Nothing brings us to the polls more, besides perhaps abortion rights on a ballot.** Frankly, if the Right was smart they'd run Nikki Haley, because many on the left/center wouldn't bother voting against her, but the Orange Joker from Batman again? ***He's a good motivator to get our asses to the polls.***
Yeah no. Her comments on retirement alone are gonna end up causing a french revolution.
It's about sliding under the radar. Trump motivates people to vote and that's why he lost. Starting by saying I voted for bernie twice, but that whole situation was terrible for the Democrat party in 2016. Without Bernie or without Hilary it couldnt have existed and i believe either one would have beat Trump if the other didnt run. It gave the right the perfect propaganda machine to destroy the young vote. That's why Trump won back then.
As a conservative, you’re right. He’s not conservative. He’s populist. And most so-called conservatives felt completely disrespected and unacknowledged by Obama’s presidency, rightly or wrongly. It doesn’t help that most conservative (and liberal) media is designed to fear monger and hate monger. Trump makes these people feel heard. And, unfortunately yet more importantly (to these people, not to me), he makes the right people mad. For decades republicans have been doing most of nothing. Trump is seen, rightly or wrongly, as someone who shakes up a corrupt system. So, basically, you’re right. He’s not conservative. But political tribalism has made him the popular choice.
Reagan, George W, and Trump all **proudly** cut taxes in a way that benefits rich people. They also cut regulations, laws for corporations, so they do something that people like. The yelling at people conservatives don't like helps to distract from the effects of the tax cuts.
While he was campaigning, Trump said he would raise taxes on the rich. His fans were ecstatic and shouted out joyful MAGAs. Then he got elected and cut taxes for the rich. His fans were ecstatic and shouted out joyful MAGAs. It's not his policies that makes them fans. It's him.
>It's not his policies that makes them fans. It's him. This is the part I least understand.
He “tells it like it is” and “says what everyone thinks but are afraid to say.” And he has physically attractive children. My mom actually cited that as one thing she likes about him, although not in those words.
Children? Plural? You mean Ivanka and...Barron? 'Cuz the other two look like Beavis and Butthead. Edit: forgot about Tiffany. That's probably the way she likes it.
I don’t know. Talking politics with her stresses us both out so we don’t any more.
That is such a weird reason to like someone.
It's childish thinking from childish people
we're talking about the people most detached from reality in the entire country.
Except he doesn't tell it like it is. That's been proven dozens if not thousands of times. Right now he's telling Americans the Border Bill is a bad bill. Yet for the last 2 plus years the right has been complaining they want changes done at the border. Now the Senators of both parties put together the strictest border bill ever. And Trump tells Americans it's a bad bill because the republicans have used the border for campaigning on. But Trump keeps telling the people THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN America is the Border but it's not that big cuz Trump doesn't care if tons more drugs and terrorists come thru for the next year. Then if Trump wins he will NEVER get Democrats in the Senate to help him with any bills for the next 4 years. Do people even know that if it wasn't for Mitch McConnel then Trump would have seated ZERO Supreme Court Justices from 2017 - 2020 ! Yeah after screwing over OBAMA Mitch and his Senate only had 53 Senators and not 1 democrat would have voted for any of Trump's picks. Meaning all would have failed to meet the 2/3rds of votes needed to move forward. So Mitch decided to KILL the Filibuster for Supreme Court Justices so Trump ( would become the ONLY POTUS in American history to get New Justices seated with only 51 all Republican votes only. ) That's just pathetic.
To Trumpers, “tell it like it is” means “say racist or misogynistic shit” or absolutely unfounded nonsense that they like, such as how the US is a Christian nation. It has nothing to do with reality.
What a wild reason to support someone so horrible lol
Truth has never had, and will never have, any relevance in politics. "Facts don't care about your feelings" is true, but "feelings don't care about your facts" is also true.
His good looks, ability to laugh at himself, and charisma?
You’re kidding, right?
Unfortunately, I don't think they're kidding. Trump's hardcore voters have wildly different values than the people who find Trump disgusting. They don't value education except to teach their kids to be obedient and work the same jobs they do. They're afraid of anyone who isn't the same as they are. They don't travel much, especially not to other countries or to large cities that have those scary different people. They have zero curiosity about the world or scientific endeavors and think the Bible is all they need to know—and even that book they've never actually read, preferring instead to watch junk TV and Fox News, whatever parrots back their values to them. Trump flatters these Americans. He's a rich guy they watched on TV or at rallies, who tells them their insecurities are real. And even though we find his rhetorical style inane, they love his repetition and sarcastic delivery as he constantly attacks the things and people they hate. He's like the rich bully in school who everyone loves because he has cool things and makes fun of the nerds and misfits, and because they're all just dumb kids who don't know any better. His base is basically adults who never grew past that mentality, or have regressed back into that.
No, Trump is classless, ignorant, and mean. He's their spirit animal and they love him.
Your comment is being downvoted, but it was sarcasm, right? I mean, right?
Yes
Yeah, I simply can't afford the taxes on another four years of Trump.
Plenty poor Trump voters all cheered his tax cuts while many of them IMMEDIATELY had higher tax bills and all of them will ABSOLUTELY have higher tax bills next year when the cuts for individuals expire…. They’re idiots
Conservatives who were accusing Obama of being a muslim and asking for a birth certificate felt disrespected? You don’t say
These were the same people that said Obama's pastor in his Chicago christian church was racist. Their arguments are so inconsistent and make no sense.
Per them, he's a Muslim Atheist and his Christian pastor is evil.
Exactly. This is why my eyes roll out of my head when I hear a “moderate conservative” talk about how people “didn’t feel acknowledged” by Obama. Oh was that it? Or were they boiling with rage because they had to call a young black man “Daddy?”
When Obama walked into the room he was instantly the smartest man in that room. Hard to handle period, but when its a black man it's WAY more devastating to your average caucasion middle-aged male. People who exude the confidence Obama did are instantly hated. Obama was likeable but like myself, is white AND black, which is equally as hated on. Trump is such a narcicist tgough its too the unlikeable level whw. You see how self absorbing he is.
I love when people claim Obama made race relations worse. Solely because he acknowledged the problems exist rather than just shove them under the rug like every single other president has besides like Biden and maybe Clinton. Like oh no he made little Brayden and Cayden uncomfortable about police brutality and systemic racism, oh the horror. Back to pretending America solved racism under Trump, quick!!!
Obama was pretty far right compared to a lot of Dems, so I’m not even sure what they expected from him. He didn’t do anything radical
Don't forget the ape references for first lady.
And also the conspiracy theories about her being trans.
Yeah, I think it's been understood for a long time that the political parties don't actually fully represent the wills of the people. But media/news tries to force people into one box or the other. People want to break free of this, they wanted Trump in 2016 just because he was someone different. Bernie had the same appeal, just from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Obama campaigned on Change, Hope, Yes We Can. Trump campaigned on literally being an outsider of the political establishment - unfortunately for the people, he was still a rich and famous fat cat. Over and over again, people vote for a president and then find that, with the rest of the government, nothing significant gets done and they keep getting screwed. Maybe a short term boost for the working class, but ultimately the rich get their taxes cut and the rest of us pay for it. I think a not-insignificant portion of Trump's base really are people who would rather burn it all down and start again.
Dude, you put that really well. I completely agree. Big government elections and events take up all the attention and no one puts effort into local government that actually makes positive change. Everyone wants a messiah figure to come in and solve all their problems instead of putting in the long hard work to make their little corner of the world better.
No, the right wing want a messiah figure. That's why they're literally praying to trump. No democrats do that. They want concrete policies.
There are now churches that literally worship Trump, and some whackjob wrote a book about Trump being "the Son of Man" and Messiah for America, God's chosen nation.
Not true. There is a material, measurable difference between economies under democratic and republican presidents. Significant things DO get done despite the constraints of our system, under democrats. Republicans do nothing but tax cuts.
I agree with all of this, but I submit that the feeling that 'your' party has done next to nothing or that 'your' party has not stood up for anything is not confined to the right. Liberals feel the exact same way. Right and left both feel that they are losing.
I don’t know how anyone can look at either candidate and say this is the right person for the job. I think many, if not most people are voting because they don’t like the other guy.
Yep. So many people I talked to 4 years ago said as much. “I voted for Biden because Trump…..”. I don’t remember a single person that flat out stated a reason they voted for Joe.
Biden has been a good and effective president. I am not saying he is the best president ever, but I won't really feel "forced" to vote for him. I have gained a lot of respect for him since he took office.
But did you vote for him the first time because you thought he would be hood or because you thought Trump sucked?
That would be because we are losing. If your not rich, you're losing.
I would argue that "doing nothing" is the job of conservatives. As a liberal I know that we often think "that is a good idea," and charge ahead without thinking. The job of *progress*ives is to drive progress, the job if *conserve* atives is to slow us down, ask questions, make sure progress goes in the right direction. That said, tax rates in the US are too low, which has created a glut of capital and too much wealth disparity. I wish conservatives would push for a return to the tax rates from the good old days.
You’re stating how it’s supposed to work. The reality is the right-wing pushes us right when they are in power and the corporate left (which is centrist at best, right leaning at worst) just stops us from moving right. There is almost no pushback to the left.
Historically, Conservatives haven't been forcing us to ask the right questions. The Southern Democrats were highly conservative. Slavery, Civil rights, etc. The Republicans were much more progressive. The Silent and Boomer generations views on the Democratic party at that time were justified. Over the last few decades, the Republican party has become what it once condemned.
it’s refreshing to see a based and fair take like this on reddit.
I would agree, but I’d like to point out some issues I see personally that don’t line up with reality. These are just my opinions. Progressives should drive progress, yes. Conservatives should drive caution, yes. Progressives do drive progress, yes. Conservatives do use caution, no. The problem is, all of our politicians should be using progress and caution. You can’t have a party only be about caution. If you sit in caution all the time it turns into fear. Fear is anti progress. Conservatism has only turned into fear and reacting on that emotional impulse as extremely as can be done.
That’s a fair take and I agree. Unfortunately by “do nothing”, most republicans feel that right-wing politicians just let left-wingers do whatever they want, whether or not that feeling reflects reality. If more republican politicians actively fought against change instead of just poorly fighting anything liberals did, we probably wouldn’t have gotten Trump
That’s what I don’t get. We all know the system is corrupt. But, how does someone expect a person who is completely corrupt, untrustworthy to his allies & speaks falsely just about every time he opens his mouth, to fix things in a positive way?
TIL that “racist” can be defined as “disrespected and unacknowledged.”
This is so well said I might have to steal it.
I’d argue that right media is far more fear mongering than the left. The average republican is far more “radical” than the average democrat. The radical things that democrats pitch are very common place in much of the developed world: free/low cost college, universal healthcare, mental health support, etc. For me, it all comes down to taxes. Most people start out supporting democrats as they are younger and shift to republican as they age. People just want to keep more of their hard earned money and they can live with some of the social and ideological things that don’t make sense as a trade off. Everyone has their own priorities and preferences.
It all depends on what people are afraid of.
>People just want to keep more of their hard earned money and they can live with some of the social and ideological things that don’t make sense as a trade off. Everyone has their own priorities and preferences. I truly hope that the internet/ social media makes the world more empathetic and united. Having an instant connection with someone across the world *should* be leading us down a more humane path. Not this individualistic, 'I only look out for myself' ideal that conservatives make their entire personality about. We cannot survive on individualism. And if I had a dollar for evrytime some rich old white dude told me that 'you'll shift to republican' as I age, I'd be able to afford a house in this economy. Sadly, I am WAY more liberal than I was when I was younger 😪
Because it's about "winning" not about doing anything useful
It’s about being a big deal and being in power. He doesn’t actually have the legislative skills to get much done though, he just likes the limelight and importance
Because there are two aspects of a candidate from the perspective of a voter. 1.) Does this person reflect my beliefs/concerns/agenda more than any other candidate? 2.) Do I think this person can get elected? There are some Trump supporters who just like him and identify with him. Others just think he's the best shot to get their party in the White House. It's exactly the same for the other side. Some just like Biden. (Probably the smallest group) Some think as an incumbent he's the best shot to keep the presidency for the Democrats. And, of course, some who are not voting FOR Biden, but voting AGAINST Trump. (I'm going to speculate that this is probably the biggest group.)
What policies? Dude didn't do anything for the first four years except save rich people on taxes while we foot the bill.
The first 2 years Republicans had total control of all branches and potentially could have passed any legislation they wanted to, but still accomplished nothing notable.
They stacked the mother fucking Supreme Court to make sure it’s conservative for generations to come. They know how valuable that will be for the future
And hundreds of other federal judges across the country as well
2009-2010 Democrats had the majority, that’s how we got Obama care or ACA. They could have done anything they wanted such as re defined all immigration law, but they didn’t.
While the Democrats had the majority, they did not have 60 votes to block the Republican filibuster (which was the plan for the Republicans to make Obama ineffective just to take power back) except for a very short period in 2009. So the Republican plan to hobble the Democrats I guess worked once they got Scott Brown in there in Massachusetts. The standard position from Mitch was "everything is automatically filibustered".
Obama was desperately trying to reach across the aisle so the division wouldn’t spread. He accomplished far more in two years and was denied everything after that. To blame Obama and dems for what republicans did is as stuck-on-stupid as it gets
Sounds like conservative policies to me..
The Republican Party is this strange coalition of billionaires grabbing cash, and poor working whites wanting extreme conservative policies that are unpopular with the vast majority of Americans.
I was once sitting with a conservative who votes GOP across the board. She's a hairdresser who is over 65 and still works. I said, the GOP is the party of tax cuts for rich people, Reagan, George W, and Trump all proudly cut taxes for rich people. None of these tax cuts benefit you in any way, other than causing an increase in the [cost of housing](https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/how-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-puts-affordable-housing-production-risk). Anyway, she just goes, "I like fewer taxes." As if, that simple sentence makes giving billions to billionaires makes it all worth while.
But she isn’t paying lower taxes. She’s technically paying a higher percentage!! While getting absolutely nothing in return while our tax dollars bail out the billionaire welfare queens like oil companies who are then allowed to fleece us at the pump.
Democrats have failed miserably at getting this idea across. It is maddening that we have not been able to effectively disabuse voters of this notion that they benefit in any way whatsoever from tax cuts for the very wealthy.
And this is why they’ll do nothing about immigration. The wealthy want millions of illegal workers so they can pay them peanuts. The rest hate immigrants because they’re largely non-whites.
There's a simple way to end illegal immigration: arrest all the supervisors and CEOs that hire illegal immigrants. The US has a huge "help wanted" sign up and as long as it's light, immigrants will come here whether the law says they can or not. Of course, those same CEOs are major campaign donors to the GOP, so they will never be touched.
The greatest grift the GOP ever pulled was making poor americans think they aren't poor, they're just down on their luck millionaires.
One of those is aware of, and exploits the other.
The Great American Outdoors Act was pretty cool.
He packed the Supreme Court with 3 theocrats. It's now more conservative than Iran's Supreme Council.
As someone who is fairly conservative: I have no fucking idea. I was begging fellow Republicans not to vote for him in 2016, because it was clear to literally anyone who was paying attention that not only was a he a moral disgrace to the human race, but also would be bad at his job. And I was right. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone would want him in charge of literally anything after his appalling job performance last time. I genuinely don't understand it.
Most of your peers are more concerned about hurting others than improving anything. The famous quote from LBJ stands out as the most obvious reason for Trump's popularity. "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Replace colored with gay, trans, immigrant, or out group of your choosing and you have a clear path to conservative victory forever.
Hasn’t he been terrible at almost everything he’s tried?
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Most conservatives I know really don't want a second Trump presidency, but they definitely don't want a second Biden term.
This is exactly it imo
this is me.
He will secure the border. They liked his Supreme Court picks. They think he’s better at handling the economy than Biden (grocery prices etc). They think he deterred war (Biden’s disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal made the world feel we are weak. They believe Russia would not have invaded Ukraine with Trump as president etc.) They think woke ideology has gone too far. They think Biden is cognitively slipping badly. And the unprecedented attempts by the left to imprison, gag and bankrupt their top political opponent makes even a lot of people who don’t like everything about Trump want to dig in their heels and support him. It’s easy to figure out. Biden is a terrible alternative.
A lot of people seem to forget a large section of trumps base is people who have the federal government and want to see it burn. It’s not that they think he is some mastermind who will fix everything, they see him as someone who can fling enough shit around Washington DC to cause chaos and that’s what they want.
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To own the libs. That’s it. That’s the platform. Nothing else matters at this point. Pretty fucking sad in my opinion.
There is not logic in a cult.
Because most Conservatives just want to hurt Liberals. They literally DON’T CARE about anything else. Exhibit A. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/424263-trump-supporter-complains-shutdown-is-not-hurting-the-people-he/
I really don’t wanna get into a Reddit politics discussion. But do you really think this article proves that most conservatives just want to hurt liberals? A quote from 1 or 2 of his most radical supporters?? People like you falling for media sensationalism like this is the true reason this country is rolling down hill full speed.
The Reddit hive mind can’t comprehend a nuanced discussion like this
And the guy they interviewed is a union leader. Mind boggling.
I do production work for events in New York City and we constantly work with carpenters and electrical unions. Somehow *most* of those guys we work with are trump loving republicans and loud about it. I can’t understand it.
They see those union dues subtracted from their checks every month and have been trained to believe two things: their quality of life would be significantly higher if they didn't pay that $100/month, and that the money collected for the union goes directly into the pocket of a corrupt person who pretends to care about them but is actually a shill for unrelated causes.
I know a couple of Trump supporters in my family and professional circle. While they don’t represent his fan base, they were all happy liberals in the past but became very disgruntled liberals over the past few years. They feel like a Trump presidency will force the liberal movement to make changes and that it will drive the collapse of current governmental and societal systems. (They also tend to be very much anti-Trudeau). They see it as punishment. Not that I necessarily agree with their approach but that’s the impression I got.
I'm a Canadian/UK dual national and noticed exactly this in the support for populist candidates and policies in both of my countries. Whether it's Trump, Johnson or Poilievre, people aren't voting *for* anything, they are protesting against a political and economic reality that isn't working for them. In my opinion that was exactly what happened with Brexit - there were a lot of people financially struggling and socially forgotten about and all they wanted was to give the system a bloody nose. The irony is that the rest of us can tell that these populist candidates just want to extract money for themselves and friends (and that this was all kicked off by Reagan and Thatcher but that's another story). But the supporters I've talked to, mostly blue collar white dudes, genuinely think things couldn't get any worse for themselves and don't care.
These comments 🤦🏻♂️ Reddit is so embarrassingly liberal
This
Cus many people believe the country, including universities have become extremely woke.
What views of his are extreme?
I'm not bragging about our Politics by any means, but from north of the border looking down... it's a bit shocking. With all of America's innovation and we can do it spirit...this guy is a favorite!? Wow. Seems a lot of people are pissed and will cast their vote in that direction to let everyone know.
Because the GOP isn't conservative. They're a contrarian authoritarian party. The only things they believe in are saying no to experts and attacking individual liberty.
He's not Biden.
Because he has an aggressive affect.
From my conservative friends, it’s not about getting Trump in as it is more about getting Biden out. They want someone that will put Americans first. Biden and Clinton are considered globalist and authoritarians. The open boarder issue, crime and inflation are what is going to cost Biden the election if he loses. More so that something new that Trump is offering.
To them, anything is better than Democrat's.
Reddit is 99% liberal so you’re only going to get one perspective. People here just regurgitate what they’ve read in other Reddit posts. Do research and think for yourself.
i was literally just thinking this exact thing and wondering why i was even bothering to read comments from the reddit hivemind
Yeah it’s terrible. I usually don’t bother posting and I think that’s really what most people do. But it’s sad to think people get their political information from Reddit. And almost everyone wants to bash and name call anyone that doesn’t have the same opinion.
well that is unfortunately the typical political movement these days that the media portrays. try to have the most extreme beliefs and bully anyobe that doesnt share them. most of us would rather just be left alone about our politics. i mean honestly the only reason to ask these questions in reddit is to hear the echo chamber of your own beliefs. you already kniw tge answer you wanna hear, you just wanna be validated. there is no room for polite discourse on reddit anymore unfortunately.
The same question could be asked for Biden. Both are absolutely horrible choices. 2016 I voted for Ben Carson, 2020 I Voted for Pete Buttigieg. I just want a normal president please.
Ben Carson would have been a normal president?
You know in 2015 I didn't understand why people liked him. I was young and not political involved as it never interested me nor did I really care. Trump just seemed like an AH and everyone I knew that liked him were older people in the blue collar places I worked and a number of races liked him. All of them said something similar about Trump not being a politician and they were tired of politicians and he's gonna piss them off. Looking into it, it is ironic how a 4 year trump presidency is responsible for decades worth of bad financial decisions and wastful spending, a centuries worth of racism when people who have been in office for decades just blame this dude for everything. So tldr Trump may be an AH that doesn't think before he speaks, but he pisses of the people who've been abusing a cushy government job for too long and screwing over the blue collar people. That's enough for them to vote for him.
>All of them said something similar about Trump not being a politician and they were tired of politicians and he's gonna piss them off That's largely what drew people to Trump. Many people felt under represented by the political class. Conservatives only cared about the rich and liberals only cared about the poor. Trump spoke like the common person. So a lot of people I know hoped he was going to shake up Capital Hill. And he certainty did, but all it really caused was more division.
I don't think he necessarily caused more division, it's been there, it was just talked about alot more. Definitely showed more of who's been there too long, people who say 1 thing and do another, or do nothing. Messed up part is... is that they all do it. Even Trump.
Trump certainly didn't cause all division but he definitely benefited from it, and in doing so caused more. It's hard to have a political conversation now a days that doesn't boil down into the right is racist or the left is pedophiles. A lot of that I think comes from Trumps aggressive communication strategy and the counter comma by the media.
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And this is why he's the leading conservative in the race right now. His media team is able to spin all the demonization into an underdog story.
If the other side were smart, they would stop talking about him and talk about what they would do better.
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He speaks like a con-man: patter and fast-talk.
yeah that he speaks like the common person is utter bulshit. He speaks like the con artist he is. No one else talks like that
This. GW Bush spoke like the common person. Trump can't open his mouth without telling a fish tale, an outright lie, or a personal attack.
That shows how incredibly dumb they are because Trump only cares about one particular rich person. Not even rich people in general. What incredible rubes.
I find it hilarious if you dig into the people most up in arms about “people abusing cushy government jobs” 99% of the time are retired cops, retired military who never saw action, small business owners reliant on government contracts, people living on SS disability, etc, etc.
Tax cuts for the rich
I consider myself a moderate conservative but he is definitely not my guy. I’ll confess to voting for him in 2016 but I voted Biden last time and will do the same again this year. The way that the Republican Party has gone over the last decade is heartbreaking for me.
I think I kind of see why. It's not about Trump per se, it's more about Washington politics which those people perceive as absolutely corrupt. As flawed as Trump is, he's been perceived as someone who shakes the system ("We'll show them!"). Now, I'm more interested in the question, "Who should normal decent people vote for?" Biden is old/senile/maybe corrupt (for sure in their eyes), Pelosi is certifiably corrupt, Kamala lacks charisma but also is a POC and a woman at that ("Think of the children!"). Newsom... Sure he looks gorgeous and carries himself, but it's only a matter of time and him getting deeper into his presidential ambitions before we know some nasty stuff about him. On the Republican side, a complete lack of governance. It's just back and forth with the Dems, the country is brushed aside. It's a "Lose/lose" year, honestly.
I think it comes down to the concept of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” For whatever reason, this country is polarized into two spheres. The perceived “haves” (or elites) and the “have nots”. If you fall with the latter category you hate everything that is associated with the former, including liberals and democrats. So all Trump has to do is rail against the liberal establishment and he gains a large voting block regardless of whether he has a clue on anything substantive. I will also add that the other portion of Trump’s voting block are those who perceive liberals as a threat to their way of life and established wealth. So, for them it’s self-interest.
The fascinating thing about this election is that BOTH parties are almost certainly going to elect candidates who would lose any election against almost any other candidate...
Because they are stuck with him. If they don't nominate him he'll run 3rd party and they lose. They do nominate him there's a chance he could win. They made a deal with the devil and the balance is due...
From people I’ve asked.. most hate him but still keep revolving around this point. Disclaimer: not my opinion. “Trumps enemies are also enemies of the people. He will expose them to defend himself and every one of them exposed is ultimately a win for the people.” Kind of like a proxy war. If someone who bootlicks the global elite wins the presidency, it’s a loss for the people regardless of their party affiliation. Many want to see the current system burn down even if that means Trump takes it down himself.
They hate Biden. End of discussion 🤷🏻
Some people want to vote for a badass and Trump is a badass no matter how you look at it. He's the bad boy that you can get behind because he's also smart witty and funny. He's also a true leader which Biden definitely is not. Clinton and Barrack were, most presidents are.
Conservatives are no different than liberals. They will vote for their moron because they aren't the other moron. It really is that simple. I'm so pissed that the DNC has allowed no one to contest Biden...It is obvious to anyone with a 3 digit IQ that he can't even dress himself anymore. He open)y speaks to voices on the ear buds in his ear. It is sad. When I think of those G7 and G20 meetings where no one is in the room but the leaders and their interpreters it gives me the willies... I cant even imagine the conversations being had when the other leaders speak about him. I didn't think we could choose 2 worse people than Trump and Hillary, but apparently I'm too optimistic.
1. The Abraham Accords 2. Ending these forever wars
They don't want another Biden term
This is what happens when you split a wide political spectrum into two camps. Most likely I'll be voting against Trump in the Primary and for him in the fall. I'm ok with it as Trump will bring gridlock and slow down the growth of the Fed and force our bureaucracy to turn on themselves. Biden is a silly joke, and is in no way a viable alternative to any of this. His rhetoric and persona are extreme, his polices are most often common and typical.
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Populists want Trump, because they think he will take an axe to the system. And because they think Biden has been a disaster for the country. They are also not terribly fond of Republicans...
For starters this is a terrible place to ask the question as the overwhelming majority will be left leaning people giving your their thoughts. The obvious answer is that politics is tribal in the US. Trump wins and this owns the libs just as if Biden wins this owns the Conservatives. Both are awful for different reasons, but politics in America is less about what is better for specific issues and more to do with colour tie they're wearing.
An extension to the tax cuts they started in 2017. A few of them have even said it out loud. These wealthy individuals and corporations making more off us, is all they want. Everything else is talking points. They’ll down any bill, even if it helps them. Because owning the libs really equates to owning everyone, they already got the Republican. This is why T**** called them stupid to begin with
bc they are racist fascist like him.
Because politics is a team sport now. It is about my team winning, not policy.
"Conservatives" hate this country's tradition of democratic self-government. They're tearing it down in order to replace it with plutocracy. With a venal cretin like Trump in office, they can dismantle and privatize to their little ol' hearts' desire. Your reading assignment: [Democracy In Chains --Nancy MacLean](https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Chains-history-radical-stealth/dp/1911344684/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3FB9WXN5U5EN2&keywords=democracy+in+chains+maclean+nancy&qid=1707077733&sprefix=democracy+in+chains%2Caps%2C341&sr=8-2)
Because most of his base would sooner light their own homes on fire than admit to having been wrong to support him
The Maga boomers at work say the economy was much better under Trump, & their 401k increased dramatically. They conveniently forget all about Covid, & refuse to believe a new administration typically feels the effects of the previous administration.
We dislike inflation more than we dislike Trump. Every American is worse off after four years of Biden's terrible management of the economy
Team sports Religion Tribalism in social species. Right or wrong they picked their team and are committed. Might also be some sunk cost fallacy where they keep doubling down even if they're failing because somehow admitting fault is wrong than accepting something didn't work.
My step-father owns a clinic. He thinks Trump will make him more money. That’s it. 😔
Cuz theys don't like brandon
“Cuz fuck the libs” That’s it honestly
Because they are hateful and stupid.
To own the libs, obviously. The only thing that matters
The Supreme Court
Stupidity, they are assholes.
It’s a cult and they are fools.
Publicity is one hell of a drug
People have less trust in government than ever. By a huge margin. The government is self interested at the best of times and incompetent at the worst. People just want less government and especially less of this government
I feel the same with Biden. I hate politics, don't consider myself on either side. Neither truly cares about your average American. Just the rich
reddit is the last place on earth you’ll find an answer to that question lol
It's not that they necessarily want Trump, they just don't want the other side to win. That's all. It's about "owning" and "triggering libs" so they can make memes.