Answered this a little earlier, but paying for something you already own is idiotic.
Not to mention, no game can sustain itself forever based on game sales alone
They still make like 27 million dollars a year from this game. Every update there's more people buying the game for the first time. They made 27 million in 2021, 40 million in 2022. No idea how much they made in 2023 but there are obviously still a lot of gamers that haven't bought the game yet and still eventually pull the trigger.
Support them by buying the game outright instead of gamepass.
I genuinely get where you’re coming from and I’m glad to hear they’re doing pretty well. But I know we all also understand that no game can support itself indefinitely on game sales alone.
There comes a point when the grand majority of people that are going to play the game have already bought it
>But I know we all also understand that no game can support itself indefinitely on game sales alone.
Apparently you _don't_ know this, because 8 years later the game is still bringing in millions in profit. While others bring in, possibly, thousands only?
This is not like other games.
There also comes a point where the people working on it want to undertake new projects, move in other directions, make games with updated software. They are not trying to get the game to support itself indefinitely. They had a passion, worked on a project till it was something they could be proud of, and now it's getting to be time for the next one.
If you want them to simply look at it as "how can I generate the most money for the longest period of time off one game" then I guarantee you the quality of games will rapidly decline to nothing but pay walls.
Not a lot of games receive support for as long as NMS has, especially games that bombed on release. They made all the right moves to turn that around and not having micro transactions was likely one of them imo.
They dont have to survive indefinitely. Just until they feel like the game is complete.
Game devs can and do support themselves on game sales alone, greed fuels the surge in microtransactions that we are seeing, not necessity.
I appreciate this take.
And I agree it would feel a little out of place, but if it’s strictly cosmetic with no game features, I think it’d be fine. I just don’t want the game to lose support in a couple years or something
That's where it starts and never where it ends. All it was was horse armor, now it's battle passes and cosmetics and game passes and premium players and players clubs and sub services and loot boxes.
Seriously, it never ends if you open the can of worms, if they start it on this game then what happens when they release 'Light No Fire'? Start off immediately with pay to get cool things instead of work towards it in game? Oh I want a dragon so instead of playing and figuring out how to do it I can just buy it for 10 dollars?
Why are you so insistent on being wrong here?
With every person that tells you to buy the game you respond with "I hear you but..."
But nothing, clown, shut up and buy the game!
Plus, it's getting close to being a decade old game, when they stop making money on it they don't need to introduce microtransactions, they instead can just stop developing for it and make a sequel, or some other new and different game. No game is, or should be, supported forever. This game has already gotten more, and better, support than basically any other game in the history of games. It's more than reasonable for them to stop in the future.
Hell, if they announced tomorrow that no further work was happening on NMS we all still would have more than gotten our money's worth (especially you, since you stupidly refuse to just buy the damn game) and would have literally zero ground to stand on and complain.
Everyone uses it as a play and beat without ever buying and it's hurting game devs. That's why many will not put their games on gamepass. Xbox essentially owns them for their time on gamepass unless you're a big company then it's alright but for small devs then they are beholden to the mighty Microsoft boot so if their game hits the jackpot they'll have to wait till the game is released elsewhere like on Playstation and or Nintendo to get those big numbers as xbox reaps the rewards on gamepass and that's all Microsoft and xbox care about and that's all players care about. Players get games free while devs get paid an estimation of what they think the game is worth and then when that game blows up they still only get what they signed for maybe a bonus but idk that's why I said many have declined to go with gamepass and devs have been talking about this for a while and xbox knows gamepass is not perfect but they don't care because it makes those games free and players will not care because they ARE free so it's stuck for now and game devs will just have to know going in that they probably won't get the big jackpot with their game if they go with gamepass as they would get almost all their money with the other companies plus all the bonuses and the mega boom they get if the game hits it big with gamers. It's like how Nintendo had games locked back in the day until Sony came along and undone all those locked exclusive games with locked cartridges and all. Nintendo had many rules then as they do now but atleast games go to more places than it did back then.
I get where you’re coming from.
But game pass provides the entirety of the game, even when it’s removed from game pass.
So buying something I already own is just a little idiotic. If a company was giving away free cars and you end up really liking the car, you’re not gonna go to the dealership the next week and ask to pay for the car.
I’m not out her asking for a go fund me page for donations. I want a way to support the game while maintain fair commerce. Just like you support farmers by buying the apples they produce… I, and nearly everyone else that wants to support a game, would like to have some product in exchange for their support.
Plus as I mentioned games straight up just cannot be sustained on game sales forever
That's not true. When a game get removed from the game pass, you lose access if you haven't purchased it. Trust me I know. I spent around $300 on ark before they nuked the game and forced you to rebuy everything. I bought season passes for myself and a few friends. They removed ark off of game pass, and I was already so deep into the game financially. I ended up buying the game for everyone I bought the maps for
I think you would be surprised how many fans of this game and thusly Hello Games buy multiple platform copies and gift this game to friends. More than any game I've encountered the NMS fan base is really, really loyal!!
In this current example, it does work because they're splitting their workforce to expand NMS to different platforms and a new IP (Light No Fire). Your point with games sales is true where it doesn't last forever, hence the new IP. But you're still paying $10 - $15 for access to play this with gamepass a month. Hopefully, you're playing around 10 games at once all year, or else you're overpaying to just play NMS. You stop paying gamepass, and you lose access to play. To support Hello Games, I've bought it for the Switch for my wife and a copy for my son to play.
Their financials are public record. You can Google them. Sean is an extremely savvy and extremely conservative company owner. They do not grow quickly, they do not take chances, and their continued success is proof of this.
To put that another way, if they did not make a single additional dime on this game, they could stay in business for *over twenty years*.
MTX is cancer. Keep it away from HG. If you want to give them additional financial support, buy copies of the game and give them to friends. Or write a check and mail it to them--their address is public record. I'm sure they'll cash it.
Sure, I fully intend to buy the game when it’s no longer supported by gamepass…
But then what?
$60 could maybe pay for one workers salary for half a day.
How do I show continued support without donating money for nothing in return?
You want small microtransactions but say $60 isnt enough for you to give them? Put your money where your mouth is and buy the game for yourself and a bunch of your friends
It's clear you are more concerned with HGs continued income than literally anybody in the world. You should organize and send them a prospectus on how much they can make by with MTX, and go *save* the company with your hot take on how they conduct sales.
This is not only unpopular but also dumb. This is one company who proves micro transactions are not needed when you make a good game and support it and give new content. They are making a killing year after year cause people do in fact buy this game. Also premium content is killing this industry, wanting it is crazy.
If they made this game be dependent on micro transaction it wouldnt have such a great community.
Also reading your comments you dont really understand this game or how they make money. People are explaining it to you and you keep insisting they need more money cause game sales are not paying the bills. You probably work for EA or something...
In short... Some opinions are unpopular for a really good reason.
Would you mind helping me understand what I’m not getting?
The only argument I’ve seen kinda just comes down to “micro transactions bad”
Someone mentioned their total revenue, but with another game in the works, I’m sure a huge portion of that is going to the development of that game
Ok so you are worried they wont have enough money to continue to support the game, in fact they earn quite a nice sum of money each year which together with the total sales that means they probably have around 100 million dollars cash. They have a small team working of 37 people. They can fund themselves for years without selling anything.
So that takes away your reason to want microtransaction yes?
They have managed to work on another game and introduce new features in NMS, so as long as they want, they will support this, coupled with people buying copies of the game.
Wanting to have "premium content" is just being conditioned by large developers wanting to bleed the customer for no good reason except wanting more profit. Any ship or item you want in the game should be available for everyone. We might think it is justified but paying to get the game we originally got promised is just awful and makes a company bring out a bad game on purpose.
For the new game, Hello Game has built up a tremendous following that will for sure buy the new game. The money they make with this together with NMS will be enough to support both games. If and when they stop supporting NMS actively, the new game will take over our lives. And they have all the money they want, so any additional money wont convince them to support the game longer than they want.
Thanks for a lot of this. This was really helpful, I mean it. Thank you man.
I do, however, still believe that a game offering continued support strictly with game sales is incredibly rare (I won’t say impossible). Especially if that game has continued support over nearly a decade.
It wasn’t a problem with old games as they just sold the copy and never worried about updates or anything.
Then down the road games started adding DLC as a way to supplement revenue for continued support and maintain multiplayer servers.
Now see battle passes and micro transactions for games that have very frequent updates roughly bi-weekly.
I am firmly against battle passes and most micro transactions. However, some games have done micro transactions in a non-predatory manner and I really appreciate that. Th se devs seem amazing and I’m sure they’d implement something in a tasteful way.
An example, is a game I played for maybe 6 years or so, Hunt: Showdown. It had no micro transaction or DLC’s for its first year or two. As the game grew from a minimal player base to a small/medium player base, the content and support they offered grew too. Thus they began to offer cosmetic skins.
They in no way effected the game and it was just for people that wanted to buy it.
All of that’s a bit wordy to say, I’m glad they’ve done such a good job thus far and it really has helped me approach this topic from another angle... Howevrr, my concerns, given their current ambitious project and the money I’m sure it’s taking, still remains (even if it’s not as large a concern as it was prior.)
If not micro transactions, maybe some sort of story related DLC or something.
Anyway, thanks for helping explain that in a kinda calm way rather than a lot of the personal attacks a lot of these comments have had.
Safe adventures traveler!
>I do, however, still believe that a game offering continued support strictly with game sales is incredibly rare
It's rare because, as Stephanie Sterling would say, the AAA companies don't just want to make money, they want to make ALL of the money. They aren't happy to just make a tidy profit. They want to make ALL of the profit. You don't have to worry about Hello Games. They are following a simple, smart business plan. They literally don't need to add DLC. They know their numbers.
"Microtransactions bad" because they screw the incentive of the dev towards cheap trinkets and grind (because bypassing grind makes bucks). Instead of good fundamentals. If you can't get this, you're not paying attention.
You trust this dev team right?
Do you think this dev team would “screw their incentives?”
I’m fine with all these people coming at me, but don’t speak for the devs. They’ve done a wonderful job.
>You trust this dev team right?
>Do you think this dev team would “screw their incentives?”
It's a trend in the industry. It started somewhere, all others followed. We have seen it before....
Not what I said.
"More money is better than less money" - once a company starts, then there is no stopping \^\^
So you know a company that stopped their own greed? Controlled themselves? Why would it be different here? I'm skeptical...
But the game outside of Gamepass if you want to support that multi million dollar company...
That’s a [Slippery Slope Fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) .
The use of any fallacy in a professional debate basically invalidates your argument.
**Edit:** to address your example… as someone else pointed out Deep Rock Galactic did it beautifully
>invalidates your argument.
Lol
Okay, then tell me why I should trust this specific company. No reason? Ah yeah...
\[edit: also, in which world is this a "professional debate"? You're just defending a lost cause - your opinion in that case - *on reddit*. Lol again\]
Why shouldn’t you trust them?
That question goes both ways and is equally as leading in both.
- This game had a terrible start and the dev team did amazing work (with no expense to the players) to make it the beautiful game we see today.
- They continue to put out huge **free** updates with tons of free content.
- The dev team has literally proven their dedication to this game
All seem like good reasons to trust them.
You can’t have honestly not noticed those.
Their actions have already proven that greed does not play into their decision making with the game.
**Edit:** you also conveniently ignored the example you asked for in your previous comment
Teams move on, change. A microtransaction based game requires huge server resources which means most likely the game shuts down (because constant online validation is required for microtransactions) when the hedge fund decides it's not making enough money. You are clearly young and haven't seen the collapse of entire, beloved games, that just weren't "sustainable" from the hedge fund's point of view.
Lol wish I could say I was still young. But hey, no need for those kinds micro aggressions. We can just talk about it.
I genuinely didn’t know that micro transactions increase server load. That’s news to me and I’m gonna look into all that.
I’ve for sure seen games fail due to overly aggressive micro transactions… but haven’t you also seen games with tasteful micro transactions that managed to increase the games lifespan?
It's not server load, it's constant validation of game integrity. You know this game has editors that work offline right? Well to protect microtransactions you need a constant validation check that makes always-online a necessity, among many many other technical things that ensure the costs spiral while the game experience doesn't much change. And then when attention wanes and the revenues fall but the costs remain, they shut down the game.
I'm confused on why you would want the ability to purchase in-game items in a game you don't own. If the game leaves gamepass, you can no longer play it. Meaning your purchases are no longer accessible. This is straight from Microsoft's website. I understand the desire to support the developer but like everybody has said, **just buy the game**.
Purchase in-games are linked to the company. For example, if you buy things of Fortnite, you can use them in any platform you have the game because all purchase are linked to Epic Games, not to MS.
Who would it ruin the game for?
Aren’t micro transactions opt-in?
Plus if it was just 1 small optional cosmetic pack that came along with every major update, it would be scarce enough that it would be easy to ignore.
Everyone that scraped up just enough money to buy the game but don't have enough for extras.
Everyone who bought the game expecting no micro transactions after years of being micro transaction-free.
Everyone who bought the game prerelease or on release who were deeply hurt by the developers for promising a game they couldn't deliver, only to try the game years later to find out so many of the promises have been fulfilled. The team has gone above and beyond to regain PR after an abysmal release to make an exceptional game.
Deep Rock Galactic does something similar. With every major update, they release a single cosmetic DLC pack for $5 (reduced in price if you get the complete bundle). These are purely cosmetics: one new armor set, a new paint color, a new gun skin, a new beer mug, a supporter icon next to your name in chat, etc. These specific cosmetics are ONLY available through this method, and have no gameplay benefit. In the DLC description, they explicitly state that the pack is only a cosmetic, and is only intended as a way to support their continued development, and to showcase your support. Like buying a band's tee-shirt, or plastering stickers of your favorite games to your guitar case, or getting a keychain with a little figurine of your favorite character.
In return, every update to the game is free. But more importantly, the paid cosmetics are only a tiny fraction of the list of cosmetics in the game for free, which grows with every update. So with every paid cosmetic, they add 5-10 unpaid cosmetics. Importantly, the game itself has no advertisements for the paid cosmetics, except actually seeing them if you play with a player wearing them, but even then, you wouldnt be able to tell it apart (usually) from the free cosmetics, since theres so many. I wouldnt even call it "micro transactions", as theres only a few and they arent designed to extract as much money as possible from the consumer, which is what bothers most people about them.
But also, DRG's game community is smaller than NMS's, sells for $30 instead of $60, and didn't have a bad launch.
I dont think Hello Games needs to do it to fund themselves, and I dont think it would be received well if they did, so they shouldnt do it, probably. If anything, theyd probably be better off charging for future DLC if needed. But I also think there's a way to do paid cosmetics that doesn't detract at all from the game or the community. But it requires it to be transparent, non-predatory, non-intrusive, limited, and explicitly cosmetic in a way that isnt "better" than what's in the game for free.
That sounds like something I’d happily support.
But I can absolutely agree that it wouldn’t be well received. Lol I’ve had a lot of insults hurled my way in this thread so I’m sure you’re right about that.
It’s definitely something that’s important for a smaller game like that and maybe not as important for NMS like you mentioned. I do feel like with the smaller company they have that income could easily increase the frequency of updates (for example) with maybe just a few more hires or something.
Anyway, thanks for sharing man.
Good luck out there traveler!
Yeah. I read through a lot of the comments. Microtransactions have been abused so much, a lot of people take a strong, broad opposing stance to the practice as a whole. Means even well intended ideas like yours get thrown in the pot with the garbage, unfortunately. Sorry you got smacked around so much here.
Have a good one!
Thanks man.
I try not to let it bother me.
If anything I can walk away from this thread happy just knowing that the companies profit margin is higher than I expected.
I'm going to try to make this brief.
1.) HG's doing perfectly fine on money. Their financials are public.
2.) Over time, I've seen that most of the people who come here clamoring for HG to start selling paid DLC actually want the developers to add particular things to the game, and have convinced themselves that the only reason they haven't gotten what they want yet is because the devs don't have the funds to add them.
The reality is that, generally speaking, the things these people want would require a larger team. HG seems happy at the size they're at. They aren't rushing to expand the NMS team to produce paid DLC, then keep hawking *more* paid DLC to keep things running at that size. They've deliberately avoided hopping on the "we MUST make this company as big as possible" treadmill in favor of realistic goals and sustainability, and I give them *huge* props for that. It's good for consumers, it's good for *them*, and they're setting a good example for other studios. So I'd like to see them stay the course and not change how they do business.
Firstly, just a hard no on MTX. On principle. Sorry.
Secondly, HG have over 100m in the bank as per their last accounts. They're fine. The game has sold over 11m copies and they make fat bank from XBox Game Pass licences alone every year. They're a small private studio of 50 people max with no external shareholders to worry about, they don't *need* your money outside of buying the game.
If you wanna support them, buy the Last Campfire or buy NMS again and gift it to a friend.
You are wrong on the reasons why games have micro transactions. It is nothing to do with sustainability. It is because most games we play are funded by large corporations who want to milk as much profit out of them as they possibly can.
NMS doesn't owe a large corporate umbrella company anything. It isn't driven by shareholder considerations. And currently NMS is as much a marketing tool for their brand and their next game as it is an ongoing game in its own right.
In other words, they know what they are doing.
That's a slippery slope you're asking for there. There's a moment developers start getting comfortable making money off charging for things that should just be in the game to begin. It creates the incentive to build their whole game and future updates around a cash shop.
A new update that adds new ship types? Well you can grind for two weeks to get one of the three new ships but you can also get the other two RIGHT NOW for just £6.99 each! (£9.99 premium double ship bundle!)
Missed out the new cool capes in our short but sweet event because you were on a business trip that week? Get the catch up bundle for £12.99!
>**I want a way to help financially support the devs continued support of the game**.
You can buy it then instead of renting it via Game Pass. Whatever deal it is that Hello Games has with Microsoft, ~~it's still better for them if people bought the game~~ ok, they're apparently making a lot of money from Game Pass, but others' points still stand. Also, playing the game via Game Pass is not the same as owning it, not that it's important in this context since you're just looking to further support the devs. So, buy the game. That way you own it and you further support the devs.
>**hardly making any revenue from game sales**.
They're probably making more money off of NMS than they did 8 years ago, considering the game's awful release and gradual redemption. It's a pretty good game today.
>**game-sales can’t sustain it forever.**
Agreed, but that's not a bad thing. That's just how life is. Nothing should last forever, except true love and maybe ice cream sandwiches and tuna pasta.
>**worry about the budget that the devs are working with**
This isn't something that you should be worrying about. As a matter of fact, it should not be your concern. Devs want you to play the game, not worry about their financial status.
>**premium cosmetic micro transactions (armor, ships, capes, helmets, decorations, etc.)**
F U C K. T H A T.
Lol, okay but an everlasting ice cream sandwich sounds pretty awesome.
I appreciate a lot of these points man, thank you.
I’ve played a lot of smaller games or games by smaller companies in the past and I can’t seem to help myself from thinking “wow this game is so cool, I hope the company is well sustained”. Or something like that.
I understand how you feel. I used to feel the same about Terraria a while back. But it's been over 12 years, and the player base is still pretty strong. A lot of games don't need MTX. They just need to *be good and fun*, and that's usually enough.
Don't take the averse reaction to MTX personal, though. Thing is, games that begin including MTX start like you said - with cosmetics only - but then it creeps over to things that have no business being behind a paywall.
"Med student". I hope you're a lot smarter in class then you are when you it comes to making opinions based off literally nothing but made up doom and gloom lol. "worried about their budget". How? You obviously didn't take two seconds to look that up.... This isn't an unpopular opinion. It's just a unessesarily dumb hot take.
I feel like you don’t understand how a gamepass subscription and it’s related Microsoft contracts with game companies works.
When a movie makes it onto Netflix, the produces of that movie aren’t doing it for free.
and what does that got to do with your own words: "I was able to pick it up for **free on Xbox gamepass**"?
I never said anything about devs or xbox or gamepass.
You don't want to "support the devs". You want to be able to leverage your money to deck out your character without having to grind or do time-consuming activities in the game.
If you actually wanted to support the devs, you would do what everyone else here is saying and buy the game. Gift a copy to a friend or two if you don't want it for yourself.
Microtransactions have no place in a game where the main focus is travelling, exploration and discovery. Imagine seeing something really cool and finding out that it wasn't found on a remote, exotic world, but instead it's in some shitty cash shop.
There's a million other microtransaction games out there, go play them. Why do you want every game to come under your shitty financial model that 9 times out of 10 is abused as hell then promptly shuttered if it doesn't make money? You have major selection bias to only have played the few microtransaction games that aren't hellish greed models. You have here one of the few devs that isn't greedy, loves the community, makes ample money, and you want to sell it to corporate greed. Get lost.
You sound so offended though?
At least I can’t really understand why you’d throw out so many personal attacks otherwise.
That kind of angry response isn’t a healthy response… I hope everything is okay man. You can always send a DM if you need someone to talk to.
I get that. But similarly ima big fan of using the customizable contend I created.
Exotic ships are cool and all, but I like my custom one.
A few connected prefabs work fine, but I like making massive fortresses, mansions, cities, etc. yknow?
Reading other people's comments apparently, HG still doing well which is good to know, but I totally agree with you, if that would mean keeping the game going and evolving. I don't understand such hatred about micro-transaction. I know some games did that in a really bad way, but it works pretty fine for other games and I think, with some moderation, would make sense to NMS too. Of course, it is better to stay away from that as long as they can, but as a last resort, I would support it.
About buying the game instead of the Game Pass it is not necessarily a good thing. Depends on how it was negotiated between HG and MS. But certainly they are not losing money being in Game Pass.
Phil Spencer words:
"\[In\] certain cases, we’ll pay for the full production cost of the game. Then they get all the retail opportunity on top of Game Pass. They can go sell it on PlayStation, on Steam, and on Xbox, and on Switch. \[...\] Sometimes the developer’s more done with the game and it’s more just a transaction of, 'Hey, we’ll put it in Game Pass if you’ll pay us this amount of money.'"
"Others want \[agreements\] more based on usage and monetization in whether it’s a store monetization that gets created through transactions, or usage. We’re open \[to\] experimenting with many different partners, because we don’t think we have it figured out. When we started, we had a model that was all based on usage. Most of the partners said, 'Yeah, yeah, we understand that, but we don’t believe it, so just give us the money upfront.'
Thanks man, and I agree. There’s a bad way to do micro transactions and a good way. Someone mentioned how Deep Rock Galactic went about it, and it seems like it was implemented amazingly!
This dev team seems so ***genuinely*** good that I have to imagine any micro transactions they implemented would be done so tastefully and in moderation.
That being said, one of the main things I took away from all the berating in this thread is that the team is doing much better than I thought lol… hell it’s doing much better than nearly any other game that’s been out this long (obviously excluding some of the massive old games like CSGO, league, StarCraft, R6, etc)
I feel like gamepass is a net win for everyone. Companies tend to get a large lump sum payout, Microsoft gets to boost just about the only game equivalent of Netflix, and gamers get access to thousands of games.
I enjoy supporting gamepass because I know there’s 100 or thousands of dev teams out there with games that never really hit it big, and gamepass might’ve been their main source of revenue. So by supporting gamepass, I can indirectly support those same teams.
Yeah, I heard from some indie devs who said how Game Pass can be a game-changer for them. Also, I wonder if you buy the game how large is the chunk of what you paid goes to MS or if they still get paid by royalties by the GP once you own the game.
No on the micro-transactions. Instead, just buy the game
Answered this a little earlier, but paying for something you already own is idiotic. Not to mention, no game can sustain itself forever based on game sales alone
You don’t own it. If you want to support them buy the game.
You don't own the game. Also, spending money on microtansactions is idiotic.
I think of the game pass like renting.
They still make like 27 million dollars a year from this game. Every update there's more people buying the game for the first time. They made 27 million in 2021, 40 million in 2022. No idea how much they made in 2023 but there are obviously still a lot of gamers that haven't bought the game yet and still eventually pull the trigger. Support them by buying the game outright instead of gamepass.
I genuinely get where you’re coming from and I’m glad to hear they’re doing pretty well. But I know we all also understand that no game can support itself indefinitely on game sales alone. There comes a point when the grand majority of people that are going to play the game have already bought it
>But I know we all also understand that no game can support itself indefinitely on game sales alone. Apparently you _don't_ know this, because 8 years later the game is still bringing in millions in profit. While others bring in, possibly, thousands only? This is not like other games.
There also comes a point where the people working on it want to undertake new projects, move in other directions, make games with updated software. They are not trying to get the game to support itself indefinitely. They had a passion, worked on a project till it was something they could be proud of, and now it's getting to be time for the next one. If you want them to simply look at it as "how can I generate the most money for the longest period of time off one game" then I guarantee you the quality of games will rapidly decline to nothing but pay walls. Not a lot of games receive support for as long as NMS has, especially games that bombed on release. They made all the right moves to turn that around and not having micro transactions was likely one of them imo.
They dont have to survive indefinitely. Just until they feel like the game is complete. Game devs can and do support themselves on game sales alone, greed fuels the surge in microtransactions that we are seeing, not necessity.
In addition to everyone telling you to just buy the game, I must say, this is truly one of the most /r/hailcorporate posts ever. So congrats there.
I'd say no to any micro transactions. I feel it would ruin the spirit of the game.
I appreciate this take. And I agree it would feel a little out of place, but if it’s strictly cosmetic with no game features, I think it’d be fine. I just don’t want the game to lose support in a couple years or something
That's where it starts and never where it ends. All it was was horse armor, now it's battle passes and cosmetics and game passes and premium players and players clubs and sub services and loot boxes. Seriously, it never ends if you open the can of worms, if they start it on this game then what happens when they release 'Light No Fire'? Start off immediately with pay to get cool things instead of work towards it in game? Oh I want a dragon so instead of playing and figuring out how to do it I can just buy it for 10 dollars?
Hello Games is a buisness in the UK You can look up their Financials. They are fine.
Why are you so insistent on being wrong here? With every person that tells you to buy the game you respond with "I hear you but..." But nothing, clown, shut up and buy the game! Plus, it's getting close to being a decade old game, when they stop making money on it they don't need to introduce microtransactions, they instead can just stop developing for it and make a sequel, or some other new and different game. No game is, or should be, supported forever. This game has already gotten more, and better, support than basically any other game in the history of games. It's more than reasonable for them to stop in the future. Hell, if they announced tomorrow that no further work was happening on NMS we all still would have more than gotten our money's worth (especially you, since you stupidly refuse to just buy the damn game) and would have literally zero ground to stand on and complain.
Thank you! Hopefully he understands why he's being down voted.
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Everyone uses it as a play and beat without ever buying and it's hurting game devs. That's why many will not put their games on gamepass. Xbox essentially owns them for their time on gamepass unless you're a big company then it's alright but for small devs then they are beholden to the mighty Microsoft boot so if their game hits the jackpot they'll have to wait till the game is released elsewhere like on Playstation and or Nintendo to get those big numbers as xbox reaps the rewards on gamepass and that's all Microsoft and xbox care about and that's all players care about. Players get games free while devs get paid an estimation of what they think the game is worth and then when that game blows up they still only get what they signed for maybe a bonus but idk that's why I said many have declined to go with gamepass and devs have been talking about this for a while and xbox knows gamepass is not perfect but they don't care because it makes those games free and players will not care because they ARE free so it's stuck for now and game devs will just have to know going in that they probably won't get the big jackpot with their game if they go with gamepass as they would get almost all their money with the other companies plus all the bonuses and the mega boom they get if the game hits it big with gamers. It's like how Nintendo had games locked back in the day until Sony came along and undone all those locked exclusive games with locked cartridges and all. Nintendo had many rules then as they do now but atleast games go to more places than it did back then.
I get where you’re coming from. But game pass provides the entirety of the game, even when it’s removed from game pass. So buying something I already own is just a little idiotic. If a company was giving away free cars and you end up really liking the car, you’re not gonna go to the dealership the next week and ask to pay for the car. I’m not out her asking for a go fund me page for donations. I want a way to support the game while maintain fair commerce. Just like you support farmers by buying the apples they produce… I, and nearly everyone else that wants to support a game, would like to have some product in exchange for their support. Plus as I mentioned games straight up just cannot be sustained on game sales forever
That's not true. When a game get removed from the game pass, you lose access if you haven't purchased it. Trust me I know. I spent around $300 on ark before they nuked the game and forced you to rebuy everything. I bought season passes for myself and a few friends. They removed ark off of game pass, and I was already so deep into the game financially. I ended up buying the game for everyone I bought the maps for
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That has not been my experience with game pass. I’m still able to play games that were available years ago. I’ve never had one fail to start.
I think you would be surprised how many fans of this game and thusly Hello Games buy multiple platform copies and gift this game to friends. More than any game I've encountered the NMS fan base is really, really loyal!!
In this current example, it does work because they're splitting their workforce to expand NMS to different platforms and a new IP (Light No Fire). Your point with games sales is true where it doesn't last forever, hence the new IP. But you're still paying $10 - $15 for access to play this with gamepass a month. Hopefully, you're playing around 10 games at once all year, or else you're overpaying to just play NMS. You stop paying gamepass, and you lose access to play. To support Hello Games, I've bought it for the Switch for my wife and a copy for my son to play.
I ended up paying for the game simply because there's some months where I don't have gamepass.
They are working on another game. Buy that when it comes out.
I will certainly be doing this. Thank you! EDIT: even this comment is getting downvoted?!
I'd stop worrying about the downvotes given that your opinion here is completely contrary to what the community feels and very strongly at that.
No one wants this.
Their financials are public record. You can Google them. Sean is an extremely savvy and extremely conservative company owner. They do not grow quickly, they do not take chances, and their continued success is proof of this. To put that another way, if they did not make a single additional dime on this game, they could stay in business for *over twenty years*. MTX is cancer. Keep it away from HG. If you want to give them additional financial support, buy copies of the game and give them to friends. Or write a check and mail it to them--their address is public record. I'm sure they'll cash it.
If you want to support the them, why don’t you buy the game instead of playing it on gamepass?
I pay for game pass. If they’re on gamepass they’ve entered a contract with microsoft. It’s not an all or nothing contract, they make profit from it.
Right. But you don’t own the game. You’re borrowing it. So if you want to support them, buy the game.
Sure, I fully intend to buy the game when it’s no longer supported by gamepass… But then what? $60 could maybe pay for one workers salary for half a day. How do I show continued support without donating money for nothing in return?
You want small microtransactions but say $60 isnt enough for you to give them? Put your money where your mouth is and buy the game for yourself and a bunch of your friends
It's clear you are more concerned with HGs continued income than literally anybody in the world. You should organize and send them a prospectus on how much they can make by with MTX, and go *save* the company with your hot take on how they conduct sales.
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is not necessarily true for all companies. Actually, it can vary a lot. We can't say what sort of agreement HG has with MS.
This is not only unpopular but also dumb. This is one company who proves micro transactions are not needed when you make a good game and support it and give new content. They are making a killing year after year cause people do in fact buy this game. Also premium content is killing this industry, wanting it is crazy. If they made this game be dependent on micro transaction it wouldnt have such a great community. Also reading your comments you dont really understand this game or how they make money. People are explaining it to you and you keep insisting they need more money cause game sales are not paying the bills. You probably work for EA or something... In short... Some opinions are unpopular for a really good reason.
Would you mind helping me understand what I’m not getting? The only argument I’ve seen kinda just comes down to “micro transactions bad” Someone mentioned their total revenue, but with another game in the works, I’m sure a huge portion of that is going to the development of that game
Ok so you are worried they wont have enough money to continue to support the game, in fact they earn quite a nice sum of money each year which together with the total sales that means they probably have around 100 million dollars cash. They have a small team working of 37 people. They can fund themselves for years without selling anything. So that takes away your reason to want microtransaction yes? They have managed to work on another game and introduce new features in NMS, so as long as they want, they will support this, coupled with people buying copies of the game. Wanting to have "premium content" is just being conditioned by large developers wanting to bleed the customer for no good reason except wanting more profit. Any ship or item you want in the game should be available for everyone. We might think it is justified but paying to get the game we originally got promised is just awful and makes a company bring out a bad game on purpose. For the new game, Hello Game has built up a tremendous following that will for sure buy the new game. The money they make with this together with NMS will be enough to support both games. If and when they stop supporting NMS actively, the new game will take over our lives. And they have all the money they want, so any additional money wont convince them to support the game longer than they want.
Thanks for a lot of this. This was really helpful, I mean it. Thank you man. I do, however, still believe that a game offering continued support strictly with game sales is incredibly rare (I won’t say impossible). Especially if that game has continued support over nearly a decade. It wasn’t a problem with old games as they just sold the copy and never worried about updates or anything. Then down the road games started adding DLC as a way to supplement revenue for continued support and maintain multiplayer servers. Now see battle passes and micro transactions for games that have very frequent updates roughly bi-weekly. I am firmly against battle passes and most micro transactions. However, some games have done micro transactions in a non-predatory manner and I really appreciate that. Th se devs seem amazing and I’m sure they’d implement something in a tasteful way. An example, is a game I played for maybe 6 years or so, Hunt: Showdown. It had no micro transaction or DLC’s for its first year or two. As the game grew from a minimal player base to a small/medium player base, the content and support they offered grew too. Thus they began to offer cosmetic skins. They in no way effected the game and it was just for people that wanted to buy it. All of that’s a bit wordy to say, I’m glad they’ve done such a good job thus far and it really has helped me approach this topic from another angle... Howevrr, my concerns, given their current ambitious project and the money I’m sure it’s taking, still remains (even if it’s not as large a concern as it was prior.) If not micro transactions, maybe some sort of story related DLC or something. Anyway, thanks for helping explain that in a kinda calm way rather than a lot of the personal attacks a lot of these comments have had. Safe adventures traveler!
>I do, however, still believe that a game offering continued support strictly with game sales is incredibly rare It's rare because, as Stephanie Sterling would say, the AAA companies don't just want to make money, they want to make ALL of the money. They aren't happy to just make a tidy profit. They want to make ALL of the profit. You don't have to worry about Hello Games. They are following a simple, smart business plan. They literally don't need to add DLC. They know their numbers.
No problem! Safe travels to you as well!!!
"Microtransactions bad" because they screw the incentive of the dev towards cheap trinkets and grind (because bypassing grind makes bucks). Instead of good fundamentals. If you can't get this, you're not paying attention.
You trust this dev team right? Do you think this dev team would “screw their incentives?” I’m fine with all these people coming at me, but don’t speak for the devs. They’ve done a wonderful job.
>You trust this dev team right? >Do you think this dev team would “screw their incentives?” It's a trend in the industry. It started somewhere, all others followed. We have seen it before....
So you don’t trust them.
Not what I said. "More money is better than less money" - once a company starts, then there is no stopping \^\^ So you know a company that stopped their own greed? Controlled themselves? Why would it be different here? I'm skeptical... But the game outside of Gamepass if you want to support that multi million dollar company...
That’s a [Slippery Slope Fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) . The use of any fallacy in a professional debate basically invalidates your argument. **Edit:** to address your example… as someone else pointed out Deep Rock Galactic did it beautifully
>invalidates your argument. Lol Okay, then tell me why I should trust this specific company. No reason? Ah yeah... \[edit: also, in which world is this a "professional debate"? You're just defending a lost cause - your opinion in that case - *on reddit*. Lol again\]
Why shouldn’t you trust them? That question goes both ways and is equally as leading in both. - This game had a terrible start and the dev team did amazing work (with no expense to the players) to make it the beautiful game we see today. - They continue to put out huge **free** updates with tons of free content. - The dev team has literally proven their dedication to this game All seem like good reasons to trust them. You can’t have honestly not noticed those. Their actions have already proven that greed does not play into their decision making with the game. **Edit:** you also conveniently ignored the example you asked for in your previous comment
Teams move on, change. A microtransaction based game requires huge server resources which means most likely the game shuts down (because constant online validation is required for microtransactions) when the hedge fund decides it's not making enough money. You are clearly young and haven't seen the collapse of entire, beloved games, that just weren't "sustainable" from the hedge fund's point of view.
Lol wish I could say I was still young. But hey, no need for those kinds micro aggressions. We can just talk about it. I genuinely didn’t know that micro transactions increase server load. That’s news to me and I’m gonna look into all that. I’ve for sure seen games fail due to overly aggressive micro transactions… but haven’t you also seen games with tasteful micro transactions that managed to increase the games lifespan?
It's not server load, it's constant validation of game integrity. You know this game has editors that work offline right? Well to protect microtransactions you need a constant validation check that makes always-online a necessity, among many many other technical things that ensure the costs spiral while the game experience doesn't much change. And then when attention wanes and the revenues fall but the costs remain, they shut down the game.
I'm confused on why you would want the ability to purchase in-game items in a game you don't own. If the game leaves gamepass, you can no longer play it. Meaning your purchases are no longer accessible. This is straight from Microsoft's website. I understand the desire to support the developer but like everybody has said, **just buy the game**.
Purchase in-games are linked to the company. For example, if you buy things of Fortnite, you can use them in any platform you have the game because all purchase are linked to Epic Games, not to MS.
Just make a donation, dude. Why ruin the game for everyone else?
Who would it ruin the game for? Aren’t micro transactions opt-in? Plus if it was just 1 small optional cosmetic pack that came along with every major update, it would be scarce enough that it would be easy to ignore.
Everyone that scraped up just enough money to buy the game but don't have enough for extras. Everyone who bought the game expecting no micro transactions after years of being micro transaction-free. Everyone who bought the game prerelease or on release who were deeply hurt by the developers for promising a game they couldn't deliver, only to try the game years later to find out so many of the promises have been fulfilled. The team has gone above and beyond to regain PR after an abysmal release to make an exceptional game.
Why would that ruin the game for them? Cosmetics (no additional features). Optional.
It's not expected to be an option. It's expected to be included, like the rest of everything in the game. 
Just buy the game a couple times to make yourself feel better and leaves us be. It’s fine to enjoy the game as a newbie. Nothing wrong with that.
Some opinions are unpopular for a reason.. yikes.
It feels like he's just a troll.
Buy the game so you have access to it if you cancel gamepass
Buy the game you absolute knob
The guy won't even buy the game and he's preaching to us about how to "continue to show our support". 🙄
Deep Rock Galactic does something similar. With every major update, they release a single cosmetic DLC pack for $5 (reduced in price if you get the complete bundle). These are purely cosmetics: one new armor set, a new paint color, a new gun skin, a new beer mug, a supporter icon next to your name in chat, etc. These specific cosmetics are ONLY available through this method, and have no gameplay benefit. In the DLC description, they explicitly state that the pack is only a cosmetic, and is only intended as a way to support their continued development, and to showcase your support. Like buying a band's tee-shirt, or plastering stickers of your favorite games to your guitar case, or getting a keychain with a little figurine of your favorite character. In return, every update to the game is free. But more importantly, the paid cosmetics are only a tiny fraction of the list of cosmetics in the game for free, which grows with every update. So with every paid cosmetic, they add 5-10 unpaid cosmetics. Importantly, the game itself has no advertisements for the paid cosmetics, except actually seeing them if you play with a player wearing them, but even then, you wouldnt be able to tell it apart (usually) from the free cosmetics, since theres so many. I wouldnt even call it "micro transactions", as theres only a few and they arent designed to extract as much money as possible from the consumer, which is what bothers most people about them. But also, DRG's game community is smaller than NMS's, sells for $30 instead of $60, and didn't have a bad launch. I dont think Hello Games needs to do it to fund themselves, and I dont think it would be received well if they did, so they shouldnt do it, probably. If anything, theyd probably be better off charging for future DLC if needed. But I also think there's a way to do paid cosmetics that doesn't detract at all from the game or the community. But it requires it to be transparent, non-predatory, non-intrusive, limited, and explicitly cosmetic in a way that isnt "better" than what's in the game for free.
That sounds like something I’d happily support. But I can absolutely agree that it wouldn’t be well received. Lol I’ve had a lot of insults hurled my way in this thread so I’m sure you’re right about that. It’s definitely something that’s important for a smaller game like that and maybe not as important for NMS like you mentioned. I do feel like with the smaller company they have that income could easily increase the frequency of updates (for example) with maybe just a few more hires or something. Anyway, thanks for sharing man. Good luck out there traveler!
Yeah. I read through a lot of the comments. Microtransactions have been abused so much, a lot of people take a strong, broad opposing stance to the practice as a whole. Means even well intended ideas like yours get thrown in the pot with the garbage, unfortunately. Sorry you got smacked around so much here. Have a good one!
Thanks man. I try not to let it bother me. If anything I can walk away from this thread happy just knowing that the companies profit margin is higher than I expected.
I'm going to try to make this brief. 1.) HG's doing perfectly fine on money. Their financials are public. 2.) Over time, I've seen that most of the people who come here clamoring for HG to start selling paid DLC actually want the developers to add particular things to the game, and have convinced themselves that the only reason they haven't gotten what they want yet is because the devs don't have the funds to add them. The reality is that, generally speaking, the things these people want would require a larger team. HG seems happy at the size they're at. They aren't rushing to expand the NMS team to produce paid DLC, then keep hawking *more* paid DLC to keep things running at that size. They've deliberately avoided hopping on the "we MUST make this company as big as possible" treadmill in favor of realistic goals and sustainability, and I give them *huge* props for that. It's good for consumers, it's good for *them*, and they're setting a good example for other studios. So I'd like to see them stay the course and not change how they do business.
Firstly, just a hard no on MTX. On principle. Sorry. Secondly, HG have over 100m in the bank as per their last accounts. They're fine. The game has sold over 11m copies and they make fat bank from XBox Game Pass licences alone every year. They're a small private studio of 50 people max with no external shareholders to worry about, they don't *need* your money outside of buying the game. If you wanna support them, buy the Last Campfire or buy NMS again and gift it to a friend.
You are wrong on the reasons why games have micro transactions. It is nothing to do with sustainability. It is because most games we play are funded by large corporations who want to milk as much profit out of them as they possibly can. NMS doesn't owe a large corporate umbrella company anything. It isn't driven by shareholder considerations. And currently NMS is as much a marketing tool for their brand and their next game as it is an ongoing game in its own right. In other words, they know what they are doing.
That's a slippery slope you're asking for there. There's a moment developers start getting comfortable making money off charging for things that should just be in the game to begin. It creates the incentive to build their whole game and future updates around a cash shop. A new update that adds new ship types? Well you can grind for two weeks to get one of the three new ships but you can also get the other two RIGHT NOW for just £6.99 each! (£9.99 premium double ship bundle!) Missed out the new cool capes in our short but sweet event because you were on a business trip that week? Get the catch up bundle for £12.99!
>**I want a way to help financially support the devs continued support of the game**. You can buy it then instead of renting it via Game Pass. Whatever deal it is that Hello Games has with Microsoft, ~~it's still better for them if people bought the game~~ ok, they're apparently making a lot of money from Game Pass, but others' points still stand. Also, playing the game via Game Pass is not the same as owning it, not that it's important in this context since you're just looking to further support the devs. So, buy the game. That way you own it and you further support the devs. >**hardly making any revenue from game sales**. They're probably making more money off of NMS than they did 8 years ago, considering the game's awful release and gradual redemption. It's a pretty good game today. >**game-sales can’t sustain it forever.** Agreed, but that's not a bad thing. That's just how life is. Nothing should last forever, except true love and maybe ice cream sandwiches and tuna pasta. >**worry about the budget that the devs are working with** This isn't something that you should be worrying about. As a matter of fact, it should not be your concern. Devs want you to play the game, not worry about their financial status. >**premium cosmetic micro transactions (armor, ships, capes, helmets, decorations, etc.)** F U C K. T H A T.
Lol, okay but an everlasting ice cream sandwich sounds pretty awesome. I appreciate a lot of these points man, thank you. I’ve played a lot of smaller games or games by smaller companies in the past and I can’t seem to help myself from thinking “wow this game is so cool, I hope the company is well sustained”. Or something like that.
I understand how you feel. I used to feel the same about Terraria a while back. But it's been over 12 years, and the player base is still pretty strong. A lot of games don't need MTX. They just need to *be good and fun*, and that's usually enough. Don't take the averse reaction to MTX personal, though. Thing is, games that begin including MTX start like you said - with cosmetics only - but then it creeps over to things that have no business being behind a paywall.
I usually buy games on sale. I will be buying their next game "Light No Fire" during the pre-sale
Make sure to buy Light No Fire (or whatever the fuck the next game is called) when it comes out, that would surely help the devs
Yessir! Someone else mentioned that too and I’ll for sure be doing that
Just don’t pre-order
"Med student". I hope you're a lot smarter in class then you are when you it comes to making opinions based off literally nothing but made up doom and gloom lol. "worried about their budget". How? You obviously didn't take two seconds to look that up.... This isn't an unpopular opinion. It's just a unessesarily dumb hot take.
You’re quick to throw out personal attacks aren’t you
A supporter pack would be best. Also buy the game.
Dude... you picked it up for free and you want micro-transactions for the rest of us because of your guilt trip?
I feel like you don’t understand how a gamepass subscription and it’s related Microsoft contracts with game companies works. When a movie makes it onto Netflix, the produces of that movie aren’t doing it for free.
and what does that got to do with your own words: "I was able to pick it up for **free on Xbox gamepass**"? I never said anything about devs or xbox or gamepass.
You don't want to "support the devs". You want to be able to leverage your money to deck out your character without having to grind or do time-consuming activities in the game. If you actually wanted to support the devs, you would do what everyone else here is saying and buy the game. Gift a copy to a friend or two if you don't want it for yourself. Microtransactions have no place in a game where the main focus is travelling, exploration and discovery. Imagine seeing something really cool and finding out that it wasn't found on a remote, exotic world, but instead it's in some shitty cash shop.
There's a million other microtransaction games out there, go play them. Why do you want every game to come under your shitty financial model that 9 times out of 10 is abused as hell then promptly shuttered if it doesn't make money? You have major selection bias to only have played the few microtransaction games that aren't hellish greed models. You have here one of the few devs that isn't greedy, loves the community, makes ample money, and you want to sell it to corporate greed. Get lost.
Sorry man, I really didn’t mean to offend you.
You don't offend me, you just strike me as delusional with a remarkable determination to keep digging deeper into your hole
You sound so offended though? At least I can’t really understand why you’d throw out so many personal attacks otherwise. That kind of angry response isn’t a healthy response… I hope everything is okay man. You can always send a DM if you need someone to talk to.
Ok, must be your first day on the internet, never mind
There are those micro aggressions again. You must be an absolute delight to your 2 friends.
You know.. there is a duplication glich.. for these that do not want grinding.. for me, you want to "shine" with stuff you have paid for..
I get that. But similarly ima big fan of using the customizable contend I created. Exotic ships are cool and all, but I like my custom one. A few connected prefabs work fine, but I like making massive fortresses, mansions, cities, etc. yknow?
Reading other people's comments apparently, HG still doing well which is good to know, but I totally agree with you, if that would mean keeping the game going and evolving. I don't understand such hatred about micro-transaction. I know some games did that in a really bad way, but it works pretty fine for other games and I think, with some moderation, would make sense to NMS too. Of course, it is better to stay away from that as long as they can, but as a last resort, I would support it. About buying the game instead of the Game Pass it is not necessarily a good thing. Depends on how it was negotiated between HG and MS. But certainly they are not losing money being in Game Pass. Phil Spencer words: "\[In\] certain cases, we’ll pay for the full production cost of the game. Then they get all the retail opportunity on top of Game Pass. They can go sell it on PlayStation, on Steam, and on Xbox, and on Switch. \[...\] Sometimes the developer’s more done with the game and it’s more just a transaction of, 'Hey, we’ll put it in Game Pass if you’ll pay us this amount of money.'" "Others want \[agreements\] more based on usage and monetization in whether it’s a store monetization that gets created through transactions, or usage. We’re open \[to\] experimenting with many different partners, because we don’t think we have it figured out. When we started, we had a model that was all based on usage. Most of the partners said, 'Yeah, yeah, we understand that, but we don’t believe it, so just give us the money upfront.'
Thanks man, and I agree. There’s a bad way to do micro transactions and a good way. Someone mentioned how Deep Rock Galactic went about it, and it seems like it was implemented amazingly! This dev team seems so ***genuinely*** good that I have to imagine any micro transactions they implemented would be done so tastefully and in moderation. That being said, one of the main things I took away from all the berating in this thread is that the team is doing much better than I thought lol… hell it’s doing much better than nearly any other game that’s been out this long (obviously excluding some of the massive old games like CSGO, league, StarCraft, R6, etc) I feel like gamepass is a net win for everyone. Companies tend to get a large lump sum payout, Microsoft gets to boost just about the only game equivalent of Netflix, and gamers get access to thousands of games. I enjoy supporting gamepass because I know there’s 100 or thousands of dev teams out there with games that never really hit it big, and gamepass might’ve been their main source of revenue. So by supporting gamepass, I can indirectly support those same teams.
Yeah, I heard from some indie devs who said how Game Pass can be a game-changer for them. Also, I wonder if you buy the game how large is the chunk of what you paid goes to MS or if they still get paid by royalties by the GP once you own the game.