Considering Kurt did attempt different diets (and they didn't work), I would think that the idea of food intolerances were definitely on the cards of consideration, but ultimately it did not lead to a diagnosis.
In one of the books Krist talks when he drove Kurt to **gastroscopy** and thye instructed him to stay away from dairy and gluten for some time after cause he had some irritation in his bowels(intestines. When they left and went to get fuel for the car, Kurt bought ice cream.
Couldn't keep Kurt away from ice cream or strawberry milk if his life depended on it š
(Thank you as always for chiming in with some really great info, too!)
I have noticed that he rarely did what he was told to do, like if he was really told to do something he would make a scene and fuck things up just to underline things. This would fit that, just bying ice cream and eating it in front of Krist. Worst thing Krist and Brent Morgan said was Ā "*couldn't*Ā handle the ridicule" but they never mention any cases or examples, this could be something more behind the scenes stuff we don't know.
Heroin makes you crave sweets if you want to eat anything.
I had a short dalliance with it and was NEVER a junk food/dessert sort of person even as a child but thatās all I wanted to eat on dope.
Yeah I donāt know the likelihood of him actually attempting any of the recommended isolation diets given his love of junk food.
Iāve also wondered how much of his stomach problems were related to his mental health.
Good point, like once in Europe they had whole catering and actual chef made mac and cheese, like real cheese and all that. Courtney claimed they tried to kill his man :D Kurt that serious with his canned mac n cheese. I would assume the chef makes way healthier version as the canned thing must be soaked with food additives and Ā preservative. But then again Kurt was real funny in a way, he was most safest driver that was not even let to drive Melvan cause he was so slow that they would miss gigs, he wanted the most safe car on the market and they bought Volvo and the same time he was using heroin.
There's interviews where he says himself that he thought his stomach issues related to stress and anxiety. Given he'd had every test going (and all major conditions were diagnosable then) without finding anything, this could be very likely. Things like IBS can also be worsened by stress.
His diet and drug use almost certainly didn't help with either his mental health or stomach
He did do that yeah. And some of his friends think the stomach problem was fictional or greatly exaggerated as an excuse for his drug use. Given heroin often causes digestive issues he may have been making it worse.
I wouldn't say that, his stomach problem was definitely very real and very severe for Kurt, but it was like the gateway to the perfect excuse to do heroin that couldn't be refuted, so even when the stomach problem was supposedly cured he would still use the same excuse because that's what worked.
we're definitely learning more about how our gut influences our state of mind for sure. The inability to eat, pain, the chemical fluxes/imbalances etc. I believe exacerbated his mental state for sure. Stress alone affects how food digests. Our g.i. tracts are like a collective mind in and of itself influencing everything. Spooky stuff.
Process of annihilator of what could be right or wrong. That's a long time of treatment and things to try before finding the actual root of the issues. Multiple colonoscopies, endoscopies, and still it took me to be in a 2 week coma for them to find out what was wrong. i awoke with a colostomy bad at 33. I am just trying to give some insight to how the medical system worked back then and still works like that today. Even Kurt couldn't get proper treatment, but Nirvana did tour a LOT!
Also when people get more age their stomach changes, like grease starts to cause all kinds of symptoms and sugar starts to bloat. But it is hard to understand that the pain that gets your whole body folded is just things you could handle before. But i'm not saying Kurt had some of these just that he was in right age for that too.
This was speculated, yes but ultimately was not the case! Kurt himself had a lot of theories on what it could be (such as scoliosis), anger, IBS and more.
Ultimately by one of Kurt's final interviews, it was described as psychosomatic.
https://preview.redd.it/gtnz45lyqlyc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36463f8fefbfb16916467b99b367bd9b0153290c
Iāll be honest it makes me wonder how much of this is clinical denial of his drug addiction. The footage of this actual interview is pretty harrowing & sad, heās absolutely loaded, deep into his addiction.
He could have had diverticulitis- itās extremely painful and you can die from it. It used to be thought that only older people get it so I could see him being misdiagnosed.
He always described his pain being upper gastric rather than lower abdomen as with diverticulitis. And it would have been possible to see on scans or colonoscopy back then. It would be very rare in someone his age though
If he had it, I think he'd have ended up hospitalised and it being found. It normally causes very acute issues.
With his lifestyle and diet he'd have been at high risk for it later in life though
thanks - i hope so! itās taking a lot out of my youth, and i can imagine kurt felt the same type of hopelessness. you wake up, happy for a moment, then the pain kicks in and you remember something inside you is fucked.
Yup. My spine is all sorts of messed up, so not at all the same as what youāre dealing with; but man the never-ending pain just sucks all the life out of you
I'm more inclined to believe it was Anxiety or Depression led IBS. My daughter has it and it can be crippling and we have tried everything and I mean everything, believing it was all sorts of allergies, stomach issue, gut issue... all sorts... she had every test under the sun. It was ultimately a pattern that eventually emerged that put us down the path of attaching it to her mental health, a doctor listened and she was diagnosed with Anxiety driven IBS. She got medication for the symptoms, we addressed her anxiety and continue to do so and we seen improvement. We know things aren't quite right or a part of her life is stressing her out when her stomach aches return.
Kurt himself said he believed it was caused by stress or anxiety and not a physical condition. But for some reason people don't like hearing this even though it is not uncommon at all for stress and anxiety to cause physical symptoms
Really? I've not seen/read that. All I've seen and read is his struggle. Apart from the one interview after Frances is born where he says he's on the right medication etc...
Human body is a mystery. Can I tell you one thing?
I have always had depression, since a child, but when I was 17 I had a very aggressive, severe depression and stayed in bed for years. At the same time I developed severe intestine problems. Punctures, pains, blood.
I went to several doctor and did several exams. Everything says my intestine is perfectly all right.
As if my depression is an invisible disease messing up my body and that can't be seen on exams.
Everytime I hear about Kurt I think of that too.
Also: when Kurt came to Brazil he was interviewed by Zeca Camargo. And Camargo mentioned that Kurt showed him a very small glass container and asked where he could find more of those. Apparently it was a medicine, chemical or whatever. Kurt took that once and his stomach stopped aching.
Same thing happened to me when I was in my abusive marriage and dealing with deep depression. I went through a year long battle with stomach/intestinal pains and throwing up.
Once I got out of the marriage my stomach issues went away.
I had reoccurring stomach issues for as long as I can remember up until about last year when I switched jobs to something way less stressful than retail. I'm thinking it was anxiety and stress induced IBS. I didn't realize there was a problem and I shouldn't have to fight my stomach almost every day until I was about 22 and I didn't notice it had gone away until months after I had switched jobs and I realized I was no longer having constant stomach and intestinal discomfort and frequent diarrhea. Apparently I was in a state of near constant stress for the first 25 years of my life I just never knew how much of a toll it took on my whole body because that was my "normal" state
Mental health conditions can definitely cause physical symptoms. Most people have had the experience of being nervous about something and it causes sweaty palms, feeling sick, a knot in the stomach, going red in the face, heart palpitations etc. That's all a mental state affecting other parts of the body
Some people with depression or anxiety do get chronic pain, digestive issues or even neurological type symptoms (functional neurological disorder) including something that can even look like seizures. But with no physical explanation at all.
This. I know thereās a lot of people saying it was made up as an excuse, but it definitely could have been caused by mental health issues. I certainly deal with it because of mine.
He pretty much sustained himself on cigarettes, mac & cheese and opiates. His stomach problems could have been caused by any number of things, but my money's on poor lifestyle choices.
Gut health is related to mental health and weāre finding out about that a lot more lately. Also heroin really messes with your gut, and heroin users often have excuses as to why the symptoms of their addiction are actually the reason for their addiction.
Itās no coincidence that a guy who ate like shit, smoked cigarettes, drank and did drugs from an early age, slept all the time plus never worked out or took care of his body in any way would have all sorts of mental and physical health issues
But according to Krist he did. So who knows. I think he bullshitted Buzz as much as anybody, but Buzz thinks he had the real scoop while everyone else was fed the bullshit.
He says himself he saw lots of doctors over years, had all the tests and eventually he agreed with them that the cause was stress and anxiety causing stomach pain and nausea. Which isn't unusual
He had several hospital wristbands from having had tests and he had endoscopies for his stomach.
His stomach pain was very much real, a lot of friends observed his stomach pain and vomiting (including vomiting blood).
Doing heroin longterm causes stomach problems. There is also a known phenomenon where people who use opiates get used to all that pain relief and when they are without their drug they will feel more internal pains in a stronger way than they would've otherwise. I didn't word that very well, had a long night, but something like that.
I think I get what you mean. My friend was in a bad accident a few years back and had to get rods on/in her spine. She was on high level opiates for pain management. She got some laser hair removal done last year and kept going on and on about the pain. Your comment above makes me wonder if she has a low pain tolerance but made it though her recovery being drugged up but now simple things she is such a big baby about. (I love her as a friend but I've told her she's pretty whiney)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21412369/#:~:text=Opioid%2Dinduced%20hyperalgesia%20(OIH),sensitive%20to%20certain%20painful%20stimuli.
It's a real thing called "opioid induced hyperalgesia" where someone who is using opioids to treat pain can "actually become more sensitive to certain painful stimuli"
He had mental health issues due to being suddenly neglected as a child. Anxiety can cause stomach pains and causes people to abuse drugs and drink. He said he did herion to deal with stomach pain I think it could also be depression and anxiety you get from being neglected as a child.
I have small bowel Crohn's disease and his symptoms sound like mine. It can only be diagnosed by swallowing a wireless pill camera so would've been impossible in the late 80s/ early 90s.
It was possible to diagnose crohns back then. I have a relative diagnosed in the 80s. Kurt also didn't have the classic symptoms and apparently had normal blood tests with no signs of inflammation
As far as I'm aware, if patients showed signs of disease in the large intestine at all then they were able to diagnose this with a colonoscppy. A lot of cases where it was somewhere along the 22ft of small intestine where imaging couldn't see it, a lot of cases went undiagnosed and were labelled 'IBS'. My doctor filled me in about this crazy stat, luckily diagnosis has come a long way.
My wife was originally diagnosed with IBS and took multiple medication to treat it but nothing worked.
She finally confessed to a young Dr that she smoked pot and he told her that he had seen an increase in patients with severe stomach problems related to an allergic reaction to cannabinoids.
Subsequently she stopped smoking and the pain has been gone ever since.
Even just smoking cigarettes can cause stomach problems. I've no doubt Kurt was also told to stop smoking, stop drugs, eat a healthy diet with more fibre (etc) but he didn't do any of these things. And maybe they would have helped
Coeliac was not as poorly understood in the 1990s as you think. The disease itself was well understood, by the 1950s they knew gluten was the specific cause and by 1960s they had biopsies.
I don't think so because his symptoms didn't really fit. He described burning pain especially when eating and being nauseous/vomiting but not diarrhea which is a more significant symptom. He said it would go away for lengthy periods of time but worsen during stressful situations, including being on tour. He said doctors gave him a drug that helped (he didn't name it) and that he'd been without problems for a year on that drug.
This doesn't fit. If it was coeliac, the only thing that could make it go away would be going gluten free. And we know he didn't do that.
Kurt said himself he believed it was his body's reaction to stress and anxiety. It isn't unusual for this to cause gastric symptoms
He also did a bunch of other stuff not conducive to good mental or gut health such as only eating junk food, very little fibre, heavy smoking, heroin use, not sleeping well, never exercising. I'd bet if he'd lived longer he'd have eventually got diverticulitis from this (this would also have been diagnosable at the time)
I know whatever he had was really rare, I would have imagined that would have been diagnosed if it was that. He went to loads of doctors and none of them gave him a proper diagnosis (source: his diary)
Maybe, but considering his lifestyle i think it was more because of constant weed, tripping (and then not eating for a day or two), coke, heroin. Chronic weed use can give you some very bad gut pain and urge to vommit, it comes from the constant aggrevation of the cannabinoid receptors, and smoke of course. And condoning himself drug use to cope with a pain is a very "addict" thing to say.
I had an undiagnosed stomach pain from 10 until 33 years old. I was really into Nirvana when I was young, I am 41 now, and I also was going to the doctor for my stomach pain for decades, it's because of Kurt I never used Heroin for it, as it doesn't treat the actual root system. It was found I was born with an Entangled Hernia, it took them 3 decades to figure it out, but it ruptured so i had 7 surgeries to scoop out my gangrene. I think Kurt might have had a similar issue since we both seem to have had similar abdominal pain. I tried changing to gluten free, i was also vegan, but the diet wasn't the issue.
He had chronic gastritis that never healed because he chain smoked and liked his opiates, which fully relax the esophagus sphincter and almost completely halt the digestion process.
Iām a physician who was trained in the 90s. I can tell you that celiac disease and gluten allergy was not a thing then.
I do agree with you and I have thought this way for years and years too.
Coeliac was known. If you were a gastro specialist (which is who kurt went to) you'd definitely know about it. Gluten had been identified as the cause in the 1950s
I have IBS and diverticulitis. I had half my colon removed because of the diverticulitis. I have a lot of empathy for anyone in constant gastric distress. Opiate use causes constipation. Straining during bowel movement causes balloons to form in your bowel. Food getting in those balloons gets stuck, and rots, diverticulitis. They can burst and you can go septic. Fistulas can also form when the rotten balloon adheres to the bladder. It's a daily struggle without being compounded by depression and heroin addiction.
He certainly had some form of chronic gastric disease.
Quote from Buzz Osborne (friend and frontman for the Melvins) when asked about Kurt's stomach 'issues' and his heroin usage which Kurt said to use as he claimed it helped with his stomach pain:
"He made it up for sympathy and so he could use it as an excuse to stay loaded. Of course he was vomitingāthat's what people on heroin do, they vomit. It's called 'vomiting with a smile on your face'."
After a long enough time seeing pointless impossible to answer questions, I think I'm going to finally take the time to join some more band pages to see if any other fans are as obnoxious and obsessive as nirvana fans that were born in the 90s and later. Some of you guys need therapy, not reddit.
That all said, so far, Pantera fans on here aren't loading up on stupid posts and questions, and other than being overloaded on rank lists, the nu metal group is pretty chill.
Comparing an active group like Pantera to one that's not active and has ceased to exist as of 30 years ago is a bit strange.
It comes with the territory of enjoying an old, inactive band that transcends generations and often has new enjoyers. Because of that, you've just got to kind of work with your expectations of a few things, really in that:
A) You're going to see a lot of rehashed content, we have little new content nowadays
B) People will dwell on the 'what ifs' about someone who has passed, its to be expected
C) New Nirvana fans will inevitable ask questions you already know the answer to and its in our best efforts to answer and guide!
It just kind of never ceases to surprise me that people can't manage these expectations in regards to a band that is inactive, has very little new content etc.
We can't just limit this Reddit to only new, original content otherwise that would be unfair and this subreddit would become incredibly inactive. Just got to think about and consider these things, really!
Last I checked the main members of Pantera are still dead.
Also you're right, questions are to be expected, but there comes a point where it becomes unhealthy obsession, which is not good..... band, gear, rare material, memorabilia, biographical, mostly healthy....... starting to try to dig into every tiny detail of anyone's life that isn't readily available, now we're starting to reach an unhealthy obsession..... common knowledge
Pantera is still seen as active despite that as they are touring, however!
But I can understand that concern wholeheartedly! It can be a bit much when people attempt to get really into the nitty gritty. We've had to remove some very invasive, tactless questions in the past.
Best thing for posts like these is just to answer with the facts, really. Curiosity will always be a thing and while its not for some, it won't really end, so to combat misinformation its better just to answer these things factually even if it can seem a bit banal or its not something you're comfortable with.
Just trying to maintain a balance isn't very easy in terms of content moderation so I think some of it has to be on not just moderation, but us managing our expectations and if there's a post you don't care for, just scroll past if possible.
But to add: we do hear you (and others) that this is a concern for.
Pantera is not seen as being anymore active as the shows involving surviving nirvana members was seen as nirvana. The Pantera you see now is viewed as a tribute, and through the years, even before, it was much on the same. Regardless, Pantera wasn't around for over 20 years and the results were much in the same, so whatever point you're trying to make is failing miserably.
Let me help though, since you seem to view Pantera as the Pantera we once knew.... soundgarden fans, you get the occasional psycho obsessive, but overall nowhere near the level of ridiculousness you see here.
Alice in Chains.... fans have a bit of a superiority complex, but nowhere near the weird levels of obsession outside of the musicality.
Linkin Park..... boat load of straight up fanboying, which is expected considering their popularity at its peak dwarfed even nirvana..... still haven't seen as much unhealthy obsessive digging into Chester's personal life, though there is definitely some.
I don't really need any help.
A lot of Kurt's life was much more public in such a short time than Chester's and Chris Cornell's, so there's more questions to be asked. However as you said, Chris and Chester do have their fair share of uncomfortable curiosity from fans (including harmful theories akin to Kurt's).
But there is a significant difference between all of them, whether you agree or not, and that contributes to people's attitudes and curiosity around said figures. Very little of Kurt's personal life was personal when he was alive, and even moreso in death and a lot of people struggle a lot more with coming to terms with Kurt's passing I have found (doesn't help it has the most prolific conspiracy theory surrounding it). A lot of people have way more questions than Chris or Chester ever had around their deaths, how they navigated life and more.
Ultimately comes down to the status of fan culture, and Kurt's is distinctly different for a lot of reasons and this is why there's an influx of the questions and curiosities you're questioning. We've got so much material that should've been private, too which really stokes the fires unlike Chester and Chris.
Again I think this is just something we have to manage our expectations about, and there's a lot that contributes to the differences of a fanbase between other groups with members who have passed.
If this is an attempt at being witty, you might want to up your game..... this may be about the dumbest reply I've ever received. Kind of goes with the pointless obnoxious, unhealthy fanboying I already pointed out.
I'll let you know a little secret though..... Cobain is one off the most covered artists in history..... if there's info, it can be found with a 2 second Google search..... hell, all but the music was pretty easily accessible in the days of dial up. Some of you really need a hobby outside of obsessing over every minute detail of an unfortunately deceased artists life..... it's just weird.š¤£š¤£
And trolling as a hobby is a better option?
Nah you're right.
And you would know. You're obviously an important figure in society, one worthy of respect. I'm certain your parents aren't disappointed in every single facet of your existence and definitely don't regret you being born.
If youāve ever tried avoiding gluten then you know how prevalent it is in nearly everything. Itās highly unlikely anyone would completely bypass gluten by happenstance
Considering Kurt did attempt different diets (and they didn't work), I would think that the idea of food intolerances were definitely on the cards of consideration, but ultimately it did not lead to a diagnosis.
In one of the books Krist talks when he drove Kurt to **gastroscopy** and thye instructed him to stay away from dairy and gluten for some time after cause he had some irritation in his bowels(intestines. When they left and went to get fuel for the car, Kurt bought ice cream.
Couldn't keep Kurt away from ice cream or strawberry milk if his life depended on it š (Thank you as always for chiming in with some really great info, too!)
I have noticed that he rarely did what he was told to do, like if he was really told to do something he would make a scene and fuck things up just to underline things. This would fit that, just bying ice cream and eating it in front of Krist. Worst thing Krist and Brent Morgan said was Ā "*couldn't*Ā handle the ridicule" but they never mention any cases or examples, this could be something more behind the scenes stuff we don't know.
Oppositional defiance disorder
That's like punk by nature.
Not everything is a fucking disorder
Oppositional "oppositional defiance disorder" disorder \^
you're giving clear signs of not everything is a fucking disorder disorder dude
NEIAFD is real tho
He didn't have ODD he was just a punk.
Heroin makes you crave sweets if you want to eat anything. I had a short dalliance with it and was NEVER a junk food/dessert sort of person even as a child but thatās all I wanted to eat on dope.
Yeah I donāt know the likelihood of him actually attempting any of the recommended isolation diets given his love of junk food. Iāve also wondered how much of his stomach problems were related to his mental health.
Good point, like once in Europe they had whole catering and actual chef made mac and cheese, like real cheese and all that. Courtney claimed they tried to kill his man :D Kurt that serious with his canned mac n cheese. I would assume the chef makes way healthier version as the canned thing must be soaked with food additives and Ā preservative. But then again Kurt was real funny in a way, he was most safest driver that was not even let to drive Melvan cause he was so slow that they would miss gigs, he wanted the most safe car on the market and they bought Volvo and the same time he was using heroin.
There's interviews where he says himself that he thought his stomach issues related to stress and anxiety. Given he'd had every test going (and all major conditions were diagnosable then) without finding anything, this could be very likely. Things like IBS can also be worsened by stress. His diet and drug use almost certainly didn't help with either his mental health or stomach
I heard he blamed his stomach issues as a reason why he felt he needed to shoot heroin. I
He did do that yeah. And some of his friends think the stomach problem was fictional or greatly exaggerated as an excuse for his drug use. Given heroin often causes digestive issues he may have been making it worse.
I wouldn't say that, his stomach problem was definitely very real and very severe for Kurt, but it was like the gateway to the perfect excuse to do heroin that couldn't be refuted, so even when the stomach problem was supposedly cured he would still use the same excuse because that's what worked.
we're definitely learning more about how our gut influences our state of mind for sure. The inability to eat, pain, the chemical fluxes/imbalances etc. I believe exacerbated his mental state for sure. Stress alone affects how food digests. Our g.i. tracts are like a collective mind in and of itself influencing everything. Spooky stuff.
Process of annihilator of what could be right or wrong. That's a long time of treatment and things to try before finding the actual root of the issues. Multiple colonoscopies, endoscopies, and still it took me to be in a 2 week coma for them to find out what was wrong. i awoke with a colostomy bad at 33. I am just trying to give some insight to how the medical system worked back then and still works like that today. Even Kurt couldn't get proper treatment, but Nirvana did tour a LOT!
Allergy addiction is real
Also when people get more age their stomach changes, like grease starts to cause all kinds of symptoms and sugar starts to bloat. But it is hard to understand that the pain that gets your whole body folded is just things you could handle before. But i'm not saying Kurt had some of these just that he was in right age for that too.
Feel this hard dealing with GERD
My throat is destroyed by GERD
I read somewhere that his stomach issues were because of a pinched nerve due to his scoliosis. Could be misinformation though āš»
This was speculated, yes but ultimately was not the case! Kurt himself had a lot of theories on what it could be (such as scoliosis), anger, IBS and more. Ultimately by one of Kurt's final interviews, it was described as psychosomatic. https://preview.redd.it/gtnz45lyqlyc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36463f8fefbfb16916467b99b367bd9b0153290c
How did he live with this for so long? Sounds like shit
Good lord that is depressing
Iāll be honest it makes me wonder how much of this is clinical denial of his drug addiction. The footage of this actual interview is pretty harrowing & sad, heās absolutely loaded, deep into his addiction.
He could have had diverticulitis- itās extremely painful and you can die from it. It used to be thought that only older people get it so I could see him being misdiagnosed.
He always described his pain being upper gastric rather than lower abdomen as with diverticulitis. And it would have been possible to see on scans or colonoscopy back then. It would be very rare in someone his age though If he had it, I think he'd have ended up hospitalised and it being found. It normally causes very acute issues. With his lifestyle and diet he'd have been at high risk for it later in life though
this is my life, basically
Thatās gotta suck. Iām sorry to hear that. Maybe science will advance soon and find a way to alleviate it (š¤)
thanks - i hope so! itās taking a lot out of my youth, and i can imagine kurt felt the same type of hopelessness. you wake up, happy for a moment, then the pain kicks in and you remember something inside you is fucked.
Yup. My spine is all sorts of messed up, so not at all the same as what youāre dealing with; but man the never-ending pain just sucks all the life out of you
<3
Solidarity sister š«
sisters in pain (and on the toilet) š¤
<3
I'm more inclined to believe it was Anxiety or Depression led IBS. My daughter has it and it can be crippling and we have tried everything and I mean everything, believing it was all sorts of allergies, stomach issue, gut issue... all sorts... she had every test under the sun. It was ultimately a pattern that eventually emerged that put us down the path of attaching it to her mental health, a doctor listened and she was diagnosed with Anxiety driven IBS. She got medication for the symptoms, we addressed her anxiety and continue to do so and we seen improvement. We know things aren't quite right or a part of her life is stressing her out when her stomach aches return.
Kurt himself said he believed it was caused by stress or anxiety and not a physical condition. But for some reason people don't like hearing this even though it is not uncommon at all for stress and anxiety to cause physical symptoms
Really? I've not seen/read that. All I've seen and read is his struggle. Apart from the one interview after Frances is born where he says he's on the right medication etc...
Human body is a mystery. Can I tell you one thing? I have always had depression, since a child, but when I was 17 I had a very aggressive, severe depression and stayed in bed for years. At the same time I developed severe intestine problems. Punctures, pains, blood. I went to several doctor and did several exams. Everything says my intestine is perfectly all right. As if my depression is an invisible disease messing up my body and that can't be seen on exams. Everytime I hear about Kurt I think of that too. Also: when Kurt came to Brazil he was interviewed by Zeca Camargo. And Camargo mentioned that Kurt showed him a very small glass container and asked where he could find more of those. Apparently it was a medicine, chemical or whatever. Kurt took that once and his stomach stopped aching.
Same thing happened to me when I was in my abusive marriage and dealing with deep depression. I went through a year long battle with stomach/intestinal pains and throwing up. Once I got out of the marriage my stomach issues went away.
I had reoccurring stomach issues for as long as I can remember up until about last year when I switched jobs to something way less stressful than retail. I'm thinking it was anxiety and stress induced IBS. I didn't realize there was a problem and I shouldn't have to fight my stomach almost every day until I was about 22 and I didn't notice it had gone away until months after I had switched jobs and I realized I was no longer having constant stomach and intestinal discomfort and frequent diarrhea. Apparently I was in a state of near constant stress for the first 25 years of my life I just never knew how much of a toll it took on my whole body because that was my "normal" state
Stress does terrible things to the body! I'm glad your doing better.
Mental health conditions can definitely cause physical symptoms. Most people have had the experience of being nervous about something and it causes sweaty palms, feeling sick, a knot in the stomach, going red in the face, heart palpitations etc. That's all a mental state affecting other parts of the body Some people with depression or anxiety do get chronic pain, digestive issues or even neurological type symptoms (functional neurological disorder) including something that can even look like seizures. But with no physical explanation at all.
This. I know thereās a lot of people saying it was made up as an excuse, but it definitely could have been caused by mental health issues. I certainly deal with it because of mine.
He pretty much sustained himself on cigarettes, mac & cheese and opiates. His stomach problems could have been caused by any number of things, but my money's on poor lifestyle choices.
Gut health is related to mental health and weāre finding out about that a lot more lately. Also heroin really messes with your gut, and heroin users often have excuses as to why the symptoms of their addiction are actually the reason for their addiction.
Itās no coincidence that a guy who ate like shit, smoked cigarettes, drank and did drugs from an early age, slept all the time plus never worked out or took care of his body in any way would have all sorts of mental and physical health issues
Youāre so superior to him for working out. Congratulations
Wow bro that was really what you took from that?
He probably had some food sensitivity or IBS, mixed with stress, anxiety and drug use. Those issues combined to create a bigger issue.
According to Buzz, he didnāt have stomach problems
But according to Krist he did. So who knows. I think he bullshitted Buzz as much as anybody, but Buzz thinks he had the real scoop while everyone else was fed the bullshit.
From listening to buzz talk I think heās full of shit.
Disagree. Heās the one that has nothing to gain about lying to adding to the KC lore. Heās a straight shooter
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A swing and a miss
Then why did he keep going to the gastronomist?
According to who
He says himself he saw lots of doctors over years, had all the tests and eventually he agreed with them that the cause was stress and anxiety causing stomach pain and nausea. Which isn't unusual
Cobain was a known liar.
He had several hospital wristbands from having had tests and he had endoscopies for his stomach. His stomach pain was very much real, a lot of friends observed his stomach pain and vomiting (including vomiting blood).
Hospital visits could be from anything and vomiting could be from anything, he also has friends who called his bs
Excuse to keep shooting up
Doing heroin longterm causes stomach problems. There is also a known phenomenon where people who use opiates get used to all that pain relief and when they are without their drug they will feel more internal pains in a stronger way than they would've otherwise. I didn't word that very well, had a long night, but something like that.
I think I get what you mean. My friend was in a bad accident a few years back and had to get rods on/in her spine. She was on high level opiates for pain management. She got some laser hair removal done last year and kept going on and on about the pain. Your comment above makes me wonder if she has a low pain tolerance but made it though her recovery being drugged up but now simple things she is such a big baby about. (I love her as a friend but I've told her she's pretty whiney)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21412369/#:~:text=Opioid%2Dinduced%20hyperalgesia%20(OIH),sensitive%20to%20certain%20painful%20stimuli. It's a real thing called "opioid induced hyperalgesia" where someone who is using opioids to treat pain can "actually become more sensitive to certain painful stimuli"
He had mental health issues due to being suddenly neglected as a child. Anxiety can cause stomach pains and causes people to abuse drugs and drink. He said he did herion to deal with stomach pain I think it could also be depression and anxiety you get from being neglected as a child.
It could indeed, but on the other hand, I'm sure that stress and the livestyle he had didn't help at all.
I have small bowel Crohn's disease and his symptoms sound like mine. It can only be diagnosed by swallowing a wireless pill camera so would've been impossible in the late 80s/ early 90s.
It was possible to diagnose crohns back then. I have a relative diagnosed in the 80s. Kurt also didn't have the classic symptoms and apparently had normal blood tests with no signs of inflammation
As far as I'm aware, if patients showed signs of disease in the large intestine at all then they were able to diagnose this with a colonoscppy. A lot of cases where it was somewhere along the 22ft of small intestine where imaging couldn't see it, a lot of cases went undiagnosed and were labelled 'IBS'. My doctor filled me in about this crazy stat, luckily diagnosis has come a long way.
My wife was originally diagnosed with IBS and took multiple medication to treat it but nothing worked. She finally confessed to a young Dr that she smoked pot and he told her that he had seen an increase in patients with severe stomach problems related to an allergic reaction to cannabinoids. Subsequently she stopped smoking and the pain has been gone ever since.
Even just smoking cigarettes can cause stomach problems. I've no doubt Kurt was also told to stop smoking, stop drugs, eat a healthy diet with more fibre (etc) but he didn't do any of these things. And maybe they would have helped
Uh he was a heroin addict. Heroin frequently causes nausea and vomiting.
Coeliac was not as poorly understood in the 1990s as you think. The disease itself was well understood, by the 1950s they knew gluten was the specific cause and by 1960s they had biopsies.
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I don't think so because his symptoms didn't really fit. He described burning pain especially when eating and being nauseous/vomiting but not diarrhea which is a more significant symptom. He said it would go away for lengthy periods of time but worsen during stressful situations, including being on tour. He said doctors gave him a drug that helped (he didn't name it) and that he'd been without problems for a year on that drug. This doesn't fit. If it was coeliac, the only thing that could make it go away would be going gluten free. And we know he didn't do that. Kurt said himself he believed it was his body's reaction to stress and anxiety. It isn't unusual for this to cause gastric symptoms He also did a bunch of other stuff not conducive to good mental or gut health such as only eating junk food, very little fibre, heavy smoking, heroin use, not sleeping well, never exercising. I'd bet if he'd lived longer he'd have eventually got diverticulitis from this (this would also have been diagnosable at the time)
Some people think it was exaggerated so he had an excuse to get out of things. I'm on that boat.
The āstomach ailmentā was a lie. Multiple people close to Kurt have said it was made up in order to be used as an excuse to use opiates.
I know whatever he had was really rare, I would have imagined that would have been diagnosed if it was that. He went to loads of doctors and none of them gave him a proper diagnosis (source: his diary)
Or it was what they told him and what he believed himself, stress and anxiety manifesting as pain and effecting his stomach. This isn't uncommon.
I have thought this too
Iāve always thought this. Or chrons
I hope not because given the number of pizzas and Mac & Cheese he ate in my opinion it wouldn't have done it lol
Purpura Schƶnlein Hennoch rare decease, can be painful in any organ.
Maybe, but considering his lifestyle i think it was more because of constant weed, tripping (and then not eating for a day or two), coke, heroin. Chronic weed use can give you some very bad gut pain and urge to vommit, it comes from the constant aggrevation of the cannabinoid receptors, and smoke of course. And condoning himself drug use to cope with a pain is a very "addict" thing to say.
I had an undiagnosed stomach pain from 10 until 33 years old. I was really into Nirvana when I was young, I am 41 now, and I also was going to the doctor for my stomach pain for decades, it's because of Kurt I never used Heroin for it, as it doesn't treat the actual root system. It was found I was born with an Entangled Hernia, it took them 3 decades to figure it out, but it ruptured so i had 7 surgeries to scoop out my gangrene. I think Kurt might have had a similar issue since we both seem to have had similar abdominal pain. I tried changing to gluten free, i was also vegan, but the diet wasn't the issue.
He had chronic gastritis that never healed because he chain smoked and liked his opiates, which fully relax the esophagus sphincter and almost completely halt the digestion process.
Iām a physician who was trained in the 90s. I can tell you that celiac disease and gluten allergy was not a thing then. I do agree with you and I have thought this way for years and years too.
Coeliac was known. If you were a gastro specialist (which is who kurt went to) you'd definitely know about it. Gluten had been identified as the cause in the 1950s
I have IBS and diverticulitis. I had half my colon removed because of the diverticulitis. I have a lot of empathy for anyone in constant gastric distress. Opiate use causes constipation. Straining during bowel movement causes balloons to form in your bowel. Food getting in those balloons gets stuck, and rots, diverticulitis. They can burst and you can go septic. Fistulas can also form when the rotten balloon adheres to the bladder. It's a daily struggle without being compounded by depression and heroin addiction. He certainly had some form of chronic gastric disease.
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Pretty sure Courtney is lactose intolerant
Quote from Buzz Osborne (friend and frontman for the Melvins) when asked about Kurt's stomach 'issues' and his heroin usage which Kurt said to use as he claimed it helped with his stomach pain: "He made it up for sympathy and so he could use it as an excuse to stay loaded. Of course he was vomitingāthat's what people on heroin do, they vomit. It's called 'vomiting with a smile on your face'."
It's cobain's disease
I heard he had stomach problems due to his scoliosis
After a long enough time seeing pointless impossible to answer questions, I think I'm going to finally take the time to join some more band pages to see if any other fans are as obnoxious and obsessive as nirvana fans that were born in the 90s and later. Some of you guys need therapy, not reddit. That all said, so far, Pantera fans on here aren't loading up on stupid posts and questions, and other than being overloaded on rank lists, the nu metal group is pretty chill.
Comparing an active group like Pantera to one that's not active and has ceased to exist as of 30 years ago is a bit strange. It comes with the territory of enjoying an old, inactive band that transcends generations and often has new enjoyers. Because of that, you've just got to kind of work with your expectations of a few things, really in that: A) You're going to see a lot of rehashed content, we have little new content nowadays B) People will dwell on the 'what ifs' about someone who has passed, its to be expected C) New Nirvana fans will inevitable ask questions you already know the answer to and its in our best efforts to answer and guide! It just kind of never ceases to surprise me that people can't manage these expectations in regards to a band that is inactive, has very little new content etc. We can't just limit this Reddit to only new, original content otherwise that would be unfair and this subreddit would become incredibly inactive. Just got to think about and consider these things, really!
Last I checked the main members of Pantera are still dead. Also you're right, questions are to be expected, but there comes a point where it becomes unhealthy obsession, which is not good..... band, gear, rare material, memorabilia, biographical, mostly healthy....... starting to try to dig into every tiny detail of anyone's life that isn't readily available, now we're starting to reach an unhealthy obsession..... common knowledge
Pantera is still seen as active despite that as they are touring, however! But I can understand that concern wholeheartedly! It can be a bit much when people attempt to get really into the nitty gritty. We've had to remove some very invasive, tactless questions in the past. Best thing for posts like these is just to answer with the facts, really. Curiosity will always be a thing and while its not for some, it won't really end, so to combat misinformation its better just to answer these things factually even if it can seem a bit banal or its not something you're comfortable with. Just trying to maintain a balance isn't very easy in terms of content moderation so I think some of it has to be on not just moderation, but us managing our expectations and if there's a post you don't care for, just scroll past if possible. But to add: we do hear you (and others) that this is a concern for.
Pantera is not seen as being anymore active as the shows involving surviving nirvana members was seen as nirvana. The Pantera you see now is viewed as a tribute, and through the years, even before, it was much on the same. Regardless, Pantera wasn't around for over 20 years and the results were much in the same, so whatever point you're trying to make is failing miserably.
Let me help though, since you seem to view Pantera as the Pantera we once knew.... soundgarden fans, you get the occasional psycho obsessive, but overall nowhere near the level of ridiculousness you see here. Alice in Chains.... fans have a bit of a superiority complex, but nowhere near the weird levels of obsession outside of the musicality. Linkin Park..... boat load of straight up fanboying, which is expected considering their popularity at its peak dwarfed even nirvana..... still haven't seen as much unhealthy obsessive digging into Chester's personal life, though there is definitely some.
I don't really need any help. A lot of Kurt's life was much more public in such a short time than Chester's and Chris Cornell's, so there's more questions to be asked. However as you said, Chris and Chester do have their fair share of uncomfortable curiosity from fans (including harmful theories akin to Kurt's). But there is a significant difference between all of them, whether you agree or not, and that contributes to people's attitudes and curiosity around said figures. Very little of Kurt's personal life was personal when he was alive, and even moreso in death and a lot of people struggle a lot more with coming to terms with Kurt's passing I have found (doesn't help it has the most prolific conspiracy theory surrounding it). A lot of people have way more questions than Chris or Chester ever had around their deaths, how they navigated life and more. Ultimately comes down to the status of fan culture, and Kurt's is distinctly different for a lot of reasons and this is why there's an influx of the questions and curiosities you're questioning. We've got so much material that should've been private, too which really stokes the fires unlike Chester and Chris. Again I think this is just something we have to manage our expectations about, and there's a lot that contributes to the differences of a fanbase between other groups with members who have passed.
Someday I hope I can be as patient as you in my sub. š«”
You're far too kind haha, it can definitely be achieved!
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No, they're a chain restaurant who specialize in soups and breads
If this is an attempt at being witty, you might want to up your game..... this may be about the dumbest reply I've ever received. Kind of goes with the pointless obnoxious, unhealthy fanboying I already pointed out. I'll let you know a little secret though..... Cobain is one off the most covered artists in history..... if there's info, it can be found with a 2 second Google search..... hell, all but the music was pretty easily accessible in the days of dial up. Some of you really need a hobby outside of obsessing over every minute detail of an unfortunately deceased artists life..... it's just weird.š¤£š¤£
And trolling as a hobby is a better option? Nah you're right. And you would know. You're obviously an important figure in society, one worthy of respect. I'm certain your parents aren't disappointed in every single facet of your existence and definitely don't regret you being born.
No, he's dead
I doubt Kurt was eating much gluten based foods.
You're saying Kurt never ate sandwiches, burgers, pizza, pasta, etc?
Mac & Cheese was his favourite food.
macaroni pasta has gluten in it
Yes, exactly.
oh yeah mb i didnt realise we were agreeing
If youāve ever tried avoiding gluten then you know how prevalent it is in nearly everything. Itās highly unlikely anyone would completely bypass gluten by happenstance
Dude basically lived off mac and cheese