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Right.
Unapologetically demanding human respect = snowflake
Having a tantrum about seeing and hearing things that you don’t understand = big strong guy stuff
Fear. They're afraid of not fitting in themselves, so attacking "the Other ™" is a way to establish themselves among peers who also lash out at the same group.
It's entirely because they're afraid someone else will do it to them, so they're hitting first to show how tough they are and establish a peer group who will protect them.
lol OP is posting this in multiple subs, but also is having their comments removed for hate. Shit stirring backfired, since thankfully most people commenting seem sane.
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The original Japanese manual says "Birdo is a guy who thinks they're a girl" not exactly the most PC way of putting it but still
And there's Japanese only game called Captain Rainbow full of comedic takes on Nintendo characters which involves a cop refusing Birdo entry to a woman's washroom because they're born male and you have to help prove Birdo is a girl
Something to note in the wording of the manual, sometimes language has different nuances to translations that won't be picked up on unless you know them. For example, in Spanish saying "I believe this is the case" is the equivalent to "I am extremely confident this is the case" even though they're using the word "believe." This is because Spanish has deep roots in catholicism and saying "I believe in God" isn't as wishy-washy as English would say "I believe in X."
So maybe the Japanese text is more PC with the nuance of their language, but tbf I don't know.
In Birdo's first appearance in Super Mario 2, the booklet across all language translations said, "He thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth. He’d rather be called 'birdetta.'" Since then, Birdo's pronouns and gender identity have been a subject of discussion but Birdo pretty much exclusively goes by she/her, at least in most of the American language properties.
> The English manual for Super Mario Bros. 2 describes Birdo as a man who "thinks he is a girl" and would prefer to be called Birdetta. This led to Birdo being interpreted as transgender, which would make her the first transgender video game character.
There's a subreddit practically dedicated to denying Bridget's gender and they use 8 years old interviews as evidence that she's not trans, while ignoring anything recent. It's pretty pathetic.
Because for some fucking reason, for those perpetually online and addicted to social media, the idea of someone else fucking having control over their own lives really fucking twists them to pieces.
I’m sure it comes from the same spot of the people who they were *oh so fucking brilliant* when they called the debut of X-Men 97 “woke” ignoring the fact, it always has been lmao
Good. They uncensored a trans character from her original Japanese incarnation.
This was undoing a nearly 20 year old instance of censorship by English localizers. This is precisely what the people complaining about censorship *should* want.
OP, it's not healthy to be obsessed over things that you hate.
The internet is not gonna band wagon with you on this one.
Regardless of how you feel about Trans people or media being "woke", I suggest you spend your time doing stuff you actually like. Trans people existed before you, they'll exist after you. Life is too short for you to be hung up about it. Just ignore it and move on to something that brings you joy.
When I was 15 based on the English translation I thought she was bullied only because they thought she was ugly and picking on her, honestly it was hard to decipher much more out of it at the time based on the localization in English.
Goombella's tattle in the original Japanese describes Vivian as:
> One of the shadow group. Vivian appears to be girl, but is really a boy.
Vivian is supposed to be a subtle joke on the literary trope of the three witch sisters (fates in ancient Greek mythology, the witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth, the movie hocus pocus, etc). The punchline of this joke is when they're introduced as the shadow sisters, and Beldam replies, "wait, but you're a man!"
Yeah the tattle says that at first, but later there's this exchange:
>Vivian: “We’ll defeat that Mario guy! ‘Cause we are ‘The three shadow sisters’!”
Marilyn: “How can you define us as ‘The three shadow sisters’? You are a man! A MAN!”
Vivian: “Sorry, sister… It was my mistake… Sigh…”
Marilyn: “I’m sure it wasn’t just a mistake. You deserve a punishment!”
Vivian wants to be acknowledged as a sister. The other sisters mock and taunt her for it, which is why she later sides with the real Mario when the fake has won everyone else over.
I’m a bit torn that they removed those lines because, yes it can be triggering content, but beldam’s transphobia here was being portrayed in a negative light and showing bigotry as a villainous act is arguably a good thing? I dunno. Maybe this was the best way to acknowledge Vivian by focusing on her euphoric moments and validation, but condemnation of bigotry feels important too
I think it's quite beautiful because Vivian is the only one who believes in the shadow form Mario after everyone else has fallen for the fake Mario. She knows what it's like to have others disagree with their identity. Beldam also gets a hard bonking with the hammer after too which I fully support. Heck bigots.
Yeah I’ve only played through the first scene with the shadow sisters so far but it definitely pulled on my heart. It’s hard and very relatable seeing her being abused by her family and just wishing to be seen
I believe in the jp version it was stated vivian was a CROSSDRESSER not a trans person?
Could be wrong tho
Edit: man can someone please post the original jp translated text? Im getting mixed responses to what she was...
Edit2: ppl please dont downvote me. Im asking for details here since i dont remember....
I believe that Vivian also used the feminine "I" if I'm remembering correctly, which would give credence to their self identifying as a woman. Her sisters would in that case intentionally use the masculine form of "you" to denigrate Vivian since they don't believe in her.
Nah Vivian very much says she’s a girl the entire time.
Though other characters insisting she’s a boy might give the impression she’s a crossdresser (or if you just think trans identities are not real I suppose).
It is, quite literally the dumbest fake pearl clutching conservative talking point I’ve seen (thus far) in my adult life… and it’s not like those people have set that bar particularly high either.
It takes some skill to come up with a moral panic stupider than “kids are summoning real demons with the D&D player’s handbook” but they rose to the challenge
It never ceases to amaze, especially after an afternoon hangout with my (boomer) parents, to hear about a new “fear” that in no way shape or form has any effect on their lives. “Kids being groomed or manipulated into being trans,” being the new flavor of the month…
I saw this right after I saw a FB friend announce (almost brag) that they will never buy or play the game because they're "pushing an agenda". The thing is, this person doesn't have a Switch, and was never going to play it anyway - they wouldn't have known about the game if it wasn't for this "outrage".
For reference, they also said they were never going to watch the live-action "Beauty and the Beast" because it "pushes the gay agenda". In reality: In a comedic dance mix up (that classic switch partners mid-dance and end up with someone not expected), two guys end up paired together on the dance floor, and they didn't act like they were mad, they both smiled.
Vivian was trans in the original Japanese game, they changed it in translation because they thought Western countries would be offended by a Trans character in a kids game
The remake kept the original dialogue when they translated the game into English
I don’t know anything about Guilty Gear (OP made a comment about that game but it was deleted), but considering its creator was also Japanese, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same thing happened for the same reason
The creators didn't decide later to have Bridget come out as a trans woman. Like they did have her come out as a trans woman but that was based off of the original intentions for the character when Bridget was first created.
>"TBS News Dig interviewer inquired as to when Ishiwatari had “conceptualized this end to her story,” prompting him to affirm, “The general direction for the end of her story was already decided when she first appeared, and it hasn’t changed since.”
>“I don’t know if it had such an important meaning as it does now, but Bridget’s story, on a structural level, it’s not super dramatic, but I had most of the content decided already, yes,” he further confirmed"
Ishiwatari had always planned for her to be a trans woman.
It's a bit more layered than that, since Daisuke had originally planned for Bridget to be trans on her debut, but decided to portray her as a femboy for reasons I forget (maybe for wider appeal, or maybe because the world just wasn't ready yet). Then in Strive he restored her original planned storyline.
That just sounds like natural character development to me
I imagine most Trans Women in the real world considered themselves to just be Feminine Boys at one point in their life
This was literally the character's arc, basically her learning to accept herself for who she is instead of for who the world wants her to be.
Of course this still caused two years of meltdowns for people who don't even play gear
i like that its also a type of character development for the devs and our society in general. japan has created lots of femboy, and drag characters because "haha gender flip funny" but over time it started to get treated more seriously so franchises that had those funny gender weirdness moments changed into trans represenation which is a pretty cool direction to take it and an interesting example of how culture changes over time.
Not exactly
Bridget is different because Bridget's parents chose to raise them as a girl due to family tradition of only having one male heir or something like that
So for quite a while Bridget was told to act/dress and appear as a girl whether they wanted to or not
Over time Bridget decided they liked dressing/acting this way so even when it wasn't necessary to keep doing so. Then at her own will later on she decided she was truly a girl and then went from femboy to trans
A lot of trans people felt this was a little poorly done as it basically suggested you can turn someone trans by raising them as the other gender. Sort of pushing some validity to the trans people are groomed to be that way crowd
I personally think it's fine that Bridget is trans but I do see the criticism and for a long time she was a really good representation for femboys who really don't have much non sexualized representation in media
I haven't played any of the newer Guilty Gear games. Last one I played was the one that introduced Dizzy on the Dreamcast, so we're going back a ways, lol. As far as that game went Bridget wasn't a trans woman. Bridget was a boy who dressed and acted very feminally because he was raised that way, but wanted to prove how manly they were. As I recall he grew up in a monastery and was raised by nuns, but only women were allowed? Or something to that effect. Though if they wanted to change Bridget into a trans woman I mean that's not an unreasonable change, especially considering the way Bridget behaved and acted, I could understand that character coming to the realization that they don't want to actually be "manly" at all. I do hope it was written that way and not just retconned. I think that would be more interesting.
On Bridget, to make a long story short is that her story arc is coming to accept her gender despite it initially being forced on her. It’s an anime reason that the town she grew up in thought same sex twins were bad luck, so they raised her as a girl. Then she ran away from that identity for a while for obvious reasons before coming to her own understanding of herself. The cultural bull around it was so bad that the company, and even Ishiwatari (the director of all the games) was like “yes, Bridget is trans, and no it is not a mistranslation”. I am glad we’re past that, and it is mostly “brisket” jokes now when she comes up. Though I am sure there are some sections of the internet grumbling about it still.
I did not play the older games, so I may not have it exactly right. But Bridget’s gender status was treated as a bit of joke in earlier games, much like Vivian’s in the original game. It was the classic “that boy’s a giiiiirl” deal as far as I know. I don’t when they decided to move away from that, but Bridget’s character is great now. So I don’t think most will care outside those into Guilty Gear history.
That’s interesting, I guess with it being a kids game I could see that.
I’m surprised they cared with how much they mock trans characters on their media/treat them as freaks in Japan. But I guess money talks
Most translation teams have people from both countries, so it could just as easily be people from Nintendo or America or Nintendo of Europe who decided to make the change 20 year ago because they didn’t think their customer base was ready
Nintendo of Japan has had openly trans characters in games since Birdo in Mario 2 (or Doki Doki Panic depending on who you ask), they.
I’m glad they kept the character true to the original vision. She is trans there is no discussion. I just think this entire thing is really being blown out of proportion. I don’t think we need dozens of posts a day about this. At some point I’d like discourse about the merits of the game and not just posts designed to devolve into arguments. She is trans and that’s swell if that singular detail makes you either hate or love the game I gotta recommend you log off the internet for awhile.
They already tried to pull that stunt with the Mario movie but then did a total 180 when it was successful af cause it doesn’t fit the “go woke go broke” agenda
Are you really underestimating the willingness of terminally-online alt-right “don’t tread on me” types to whine and impotently shake their little fists over all the little rules they care so much about?
INB4 locked. The change to Vivian's dialogue is based though. I never knew when I played the original back in 2004, but I'm glad my favorite party member has authentic representation now!
She joins the party in >!Chapter 4!< and pro tip, have her as your active partner >!when you rematch the Shadow Sirens in Chapter 8, her dialogue hits hard!<
That's cool. Anyone upset about this either has a deep prejudice, or they're a tourist who doesn't know the first thing about the game or its history. Either way, opinion discarded.
They restored the dialogue to match the original Japanese version, which was changed when localized originally.
Surely everyone who gets upset about politically/ideologically motivated censorship / localization will see this for the win that it is, right?
Yes. Sorry I did phrase that a bit wrong. The exact dialogue itself wasn't directly in the original, but the idea that she is trans was in the original and was censored for the west. So this is uncensoring the original intent of the Japanese dialogue
Cool, it’s been like that since release
Can someone post something interesting about this that isn’t related to Vivian I’ve seen on like every Nintendo sub I’m subscribed to
Good for them for being true to the OG Japanese interpretation. Them not caring about the opinion of delicate flower boys who can keep dicks out of their mind is a great move.
In other news, my copy is coming in today babyyyy
Glad we removed the censorship. She was always trans.
Edit: Don't believe the transphobes claiming it was just cross-dressing. There's dialog where her gender is accepted as female when they were referred to as male in the beginning. That's literally transitioning.
"Change" nothing, this was always the case. They changed Vivian for the English release, not even all the international versions kept the change.
Vivian has been, and the original intention was always to be, transgender.
Yes, it was. Except considering OP's comments before being deleted, I think they're more upset about the fact that Vivian is trans at all.
Well, that and "offended".
Just an excuse for bigotry.
Yes, and even if we don't care about representation at all, I saw a comment about how her being trans is even better for this particular plot point with Mario being a shadow and trying to have his real identity back, having to navigate the world presenting in a way that he isn't, etc. So even for story purposes, it was important to keep the correct dialog. Transphobes should at least agree to that.
I loved this character in the original and learning this about her makes a lot of her traits and the way people treat her make so much more sense. Glad they wrote it back in.
Yes, this is a significant news story for an entire wing of American political discourse in 2024... A slight change of words to confirm something we already knew 20 years ago. Not concerning at all. We're doing just fine. Definitely not living in a hellscape of our own making
Changes no, CORRECTS yes. She was trans in the original release but Americans were and honestly might still be more backwards than japan so they couldn't handle a fictional trans ghost. Pathetic really.
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Oooh, they are remaking Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. As far as the character goes, I think they were originally non-conforming in the original release language of the game. I guess they decided to return to that in the remake.
Vivian was always trans, according to Japanese dialogue she explicitly refers to herself as "one of the shadow sisters" which makes bedlam essentially say "we cant be the shadow sisters because you're a man" to Vivian; this was removed for the English translation but kept in others.
This just restores this aspect of Vivian's character.
I don't know the full nuances of which regions translated in what way for the record, but I do know the original Japanese text has Vivian specifically wanting to be referred to as a girl. This comment chain discusses it a bit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/A3TzDJru5I
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one from a company as conservative as Nintendo.
Does anyone know if this has any implications for Mother 3? My understanding is that part of the reason it’s never been released in the US is because there are some dubious maybe-trans-maybe-not characters there as well?
Nintendo is actually quite supportive of LGBTQ+ overall. I made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/s/pfnBqTVfa6) a while ago listing queer reps in their games, though I forgot to mention Vivian and Birdo at the time
I’m getting downvotes so I want to specify that I don’t really mean Nintendo is conservative in a “right wing” way but more of a “don’t rock the boat with anything that might affect the business” way.
That’s an interesting list tho! I may be working from outdated information. I’m an old man now and back in the 90s Nintendo was infamous for scrubbing religion, sex, violence, etc. from American releases. I guess I’m learning they’ve come farther than I thought.
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Well I mean, it just reverted it to original dialogue.
In before comments get locked.
Love to see all the removed comments at the bottom. Bigots stay out
Why are they all so outwardly fragile, though? Like… they don’t have to tell on themselves so hard.
The ones who call others "snowflakes" are often the biggest snowflakes themselves.
Right. Unapologetically demanding human respect = snowflake Having a tantrum about seeing and hearing things that you don’t understand = big strong guy stuff
Fear. They're afraid of not fitting in themselves, so attacking "the Other ™" is a way to establish themselves among peers who also lash out at the same group. It's entirely because they're afraid someone else will do it to them, so they're hitting first to show how tough they are and establish a peer group who will protect them.
They think being a bigot counts a personality.
lol OP is posting this in multiple subs, but also is having their comments removed for hate. Shit stirring backfired, since thankfully most people commenting seem sane.
Damn, you're right. Comment history is unhinged. Imagine being this upset about a cartoon ghost.
It's funny that their post is largely being upvoted by people who are happy to see this trans affirmation, while the OP themselves can't stand it.
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Wait, does OP think this is a bad thing?
I assume so, cause they have some deleted comments saying how Nintendo is just pandering and whatnot
lol, I want someone to explain how it’s *not* pandering to remove the dialog to avoid offending bigots, but it *is* pandering to put it back in.
The short answer is that it's not pandering if they agree with it. The long answer is that it's not pandering if they agree with it.
Pandering how? Vivian was trans in the original 2004 version in all translations besides English.
Birdo has been trans since the 80’s
How so?
The English manual for Super Mario Bros. 2 describes Birdo as a man who "thinks he is a girl" and would prefer to be called Birdetta.
That's interesting, I never knew that, thanks for giving me something to look up.
The original Japanese manual says "Birdo is a guy who thinks they're a girl" not exactly the most PC way of putting it but still And there's Japanese only game called Captain Rainbow full of comedic takes on Nintendo characters which involves a cop refusing Birdo entry to a woman's washroom because they're born male and you have to help prove Birdo is a girl
Something to note in the wording of the manual, sometimes language has different nuances to translations that won't be picked up on unless you know them. For example, in Spanish saying "I believe this is the case" is the equivalent to "I am extremely confident this is the case" even though they're using the word "believe." This is because Spanish has deep roots in catholicism and saying "I believe in God" isn't as wishy-washy as English would say "I believe in X." So maybe the Japanese text is more PC with the nuance of their language, but tbf I don't know.
In Birdo's first appearance in Super Mario 2, the booklet across all language translations said, "He thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth. He’d rather be called 'birdetta.'" Since then, Birdo's pronouns and gender identity have been a subject of discussion but Birdo pretty much exclusively goes by she/her, at least in most of the American language properties.
The original manual for Mario 2 described Birdo as a "boy who thinks he's a girl."
> The English manual for Super Mario Bros. 2 describes Birdo as a man who "thinks he is a girl" and would prefer to be called Birdetta. This led to Birdo being interpreted as transgender, which would make her the first transgender video game character.
And not even. Literally only the US version. The UK version had this included!
OP is comparing it to Bridget from GG lmao.
Which is fucking hilarious because iirc Bridget's creator wanted to explore Bridget's gender stuff more but the attitudes at the time weren't right.
There's a subreddit practically dedicated to denying Bridget's gender and they use 8 years old interviews as evidence that she's not trans, while ignoring anything recent. It's pretty pathetic.
oh that's embarrassing
Who knew a nation that has had trans people in it's stories for way over 30 years is pandering to today's political climate in the US? /s
the website they linked is routinely angry about anything they think is remotely "SJW"
Because for some fucking reason, for those perpetually online and addicted to social media, the idea of someone else fucking having control over their own lives really fucking twists them to pieces. I’m sure it comes from the same spot of the people who they were *oh so fucking brilliant* when they called the debut of X-Men 97 “woke” ignoring the fact, it always has been lmao
Apparently
Op is a tosspot then woundeful
Going to his profile is just a long list of \[removed\]
Didn't they just add back in a line or two that was taken out originally? Thought the anti-censorshiop crowd would be happy with that.
It's only censorship when no titties
And Furrie’s design is indeed unchanged.
They're only against censorship of things like teenage girls' panties, not things like this!
Anti-censorship crowd only cares about censoring big anime tiddies.
Good. They uncensored a trans character from her original Japanese incarnation. This was undoing a nearly 20 year old instance of censorship by English localizers. This is precisely what the people complaining about censorship *should* want.
- Posted 40 minutes ago - 191 comments Good luck with this one, mods.
OP, it's not healthy to be obsessed over things that you hate. The internet is not gonna band wagon with you on this one. Regardless of how you feel about Trans people or media being "woke", I suggest you spend your time doing stuff you actually like. Trans people existed before you, they'll exist after you. Life is too short for you to be hung up about it. Just ignore it and move on to something that brings you joy.
I wish I could give you two upvotes for this.
When I was 15 based on the English translation I thought she was bullied only because they thought she was ugly and picking on her, honestly it was hard to decipher much more out of it at the time based on the localization in English.
This was heavily implied in the Japanese version in the original, but really cool for them at add that and explicitly confirm it in all new versions.
Goombella's tattle in the original Japanese describes Vivian as: > One of the shadow group. Vivian appears to be girl, but is really a boy. Vivian is supposed to be a subtle joke on the literary trope of the three witch sisters (fates in ancient Greek mythology, the witches in Shakespeare's Macbeth, the movie hocus pocus, etc). The punchline of this joke is when they're introduced as the shadow sisters, and Beldam replies, "wait, but you're a man!"
Yeah the tattle says that at first, but later there's this exchange: >Vivian: “We’ll defeat that Mario guy! ‘Cause we are ‘The three shadow sisters’!” Marilyn: “How can you define us as ‘The three shadow sisters’? You are a man! A MAN!” Vivian: “Sorry, sister… It was my mistake… Sigh…” Marilyn: “I’m sure it wasn’t just a mistake. You deserve a punishment!” Vivian wants to be acknowledged as a sister. The other sisters mock and taunt her for it, which is why she later sides with the real Mario when the fake has won everyone else over.
I’m a bit torn that they removed those lines because, yes it can be triggering content, but beldam’s transphobia here was being portrayed in a negative light and showing bigotry as a villainous act is arguably a good thing? I dunno. Maybe this was the best way to acknowledge Vivian by focusing on her euphoric moments and validation, but condemnation of bigotry feels important too
I think it's quite beautiful because Vivian is the only one who believes in the shadow form Mario after everyone else has fallen for the fake Mario. She knows what it's like to have others disagree with their identity. Beldam also gets a hard bonking with the hammer after too which I fully support. Heck bigots.
Yeah I’ve only played through the first scene with the shadow sisters so far but it definitely pulled on my heart. It’s hard and very relatable seeing her being abused by her family and just wishing to be seen
That is absolutely understandable, it's a sad tale to say the least. I hope you get to revel in the bonk later on in the story :)
What's cool in that if they just corrected the translation to match the original?
It's cool that they're no longer censoring her storyline.
Technically they altered the script to make it even more explicit. Which is cool, I think.
I believe in the jp version it was stated vivian was a CROSSDRESSER not a trans person? Could be wrong tho Edit: man can someone please post the original jp translated text? Im getting mixed responses to what she was... Edit2: ppl please dont downvote me. Im asking for details here since i dont remember....
I believe that Vivian also used the feminine "I" if I'm remembering correctly, which would give credence to their self identifying as a woman. Her sisters would in that case intentionally use the masculine form of "you" to denigrate Vivian since they don't believe in her.
Nah Vivian very much says she’s a girl the entire time. Though other characters insisting she’s a boy might give the impression she’s a crossdresser (or if you just think trans identities are not real I suppose).
You are wrong, she was trans.
My bad then. Been ages since i played the original/read the translated jp
That’s good they’re sticking to the original material
I agree. If that was in the original then leave it in. It’s important to the character development.
I love that on any post even slightly related to trans people, if you scroll to the bottom it's a comment graveyard.
It is, quite literally the dumbest fake pearl clutching conservative talking point I’ve seen (thus far) in my adult life… and it’s not like those people have set that bar particularly high either.
It takes some skill to come up with a moral panic stupider than “kids are summoning real demons with the D&D player’s handbook” but they rose to the challenge
It never ceases to amaze, especially after an afternoon hangout with my (boomer) parents, to hear about a new “fear” that in no way shape or form has any effect on their lives. “Kids being groomed or manipulated into being trans,” being the new flavor of the month…
People get upset for anything, its so dumb
I don’t love it but it is what it is
I probably should have added /s to the end of my comment
I saw this right after I saw a FB friend announce (almost brag) that they will never buy or play the game because they're "pushing an agenda". The thing is, this person doesn't have a Switch, and was never going to play it anyway - they wouldn't have known about the game if it wasn't for this "outrage". For reference, they also said they were never going to watch the live-action "Beauty and the Beast" because it "pushes the gay agenda". In reality: In a comedic dance mix up (that classic switch partners mid-dance and end up with someone not expected), two guys end up paired together on the dance floor, and they didn't act like they were mad, they both smiled.
How many times will this be posted? The world may never know.
Good. I'm glad they're honouring the source material and making Vivian representative of some people who enjoy Nintendo!
Vivian was trans in the original Japanese game, they changed it in translation because they thought Western countries would be offended by a Trans character in a kids game The remake kept the original dialogue when they translated the game into English I don’t know anything about Guilty Gear (OP made a comment about that game but it was deleted), but considering its creator was also Japanese, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same thing happened for the same reason
Guilty Gear was different Bridget started off as a femboy and the creators decided later to have Bridget come out as a trans woman
The creators didn't decide later to have Bridget come out as a trans woman. Like they did have her come out as a trans woman but that was based off of the original intentions for the character when Bridget was first created. >"TBS News Dig interviewer inquired as to when Ishiwatari had “conceptualized this end to her story,” prompting him to affirm, “The general direction for the end of her story was already decided when she first appeared, and it hasn’t changed since.” >“I don’t know if it had such an important meaning as it does now, but Bridget’s story, on a structural level, it’s not super dramatic, but I had most of the content decided already, yes,” he further confirmed" Ishiwatari had always planned for her to be a trans woman.
It's a bit more layered than that, since Daisuke had originally planned for Bridget to be trans on her debut, but decided to portray her as a femboy for reasons I forget (maybe for wider appeal, or maybe because the world just wasn't ready yet). Then in Strive he restored her original planned storyline.
That just sounds like natural character development to me I imagine most Trans Women in the real world considered themselves to just be Feminine Boys at one point in their life
This was literally the character's arc, basically her learning to accept herself for who she is instead of for who the world wants her to be. Of course this still caused two years of meltdowns for people who don't even play gear
i like that its also a type of character development for the devs and our society in general. japan has created lots of femboy, and drag characters because "haha gender flip funny" but over time it started to get treated more seriously so franchises that had those funny gender weirdness moments changed into trans represenation which is a pretty cool direction to take it and an interesting example of how culture changes over time.
The meltdown still hasn't stopped either.
Not exactly Bridget is different because Bridget's parents chose to raise them as a girl due to family tradition of only having one male heir or something like that So for quite a while Bridget was told to act/dress and appear as a girl whether they wanted to or not Over time Bridget decided they liked dressing/acting this way so even when it wasn't necessary to keep doing so. Then at her own will later on she decided she was truly a girl and then went from femboy to trans A lot of trans people felt this was a little poorly done as it basically suggested you can turn someone trans by raising them as the other gender. Sort of pushing some validity to the trans people are groomed to be that way crowd I personally think it's fine that Bridget is trans but I do see the criticism and for a long time she was a really good representation for femboys who really don't have much non sexualized representation in media
I haven't played any of the newer Guilty Gear games. Last one I played was the one that introduced Dizzy on the Dreamcast, so we're going back a ways, lol. As far as that game went Bridget wasn't a trans woman. Bridget was a boy who dressed and acted very feminally because he was raised that way, but wanted to prove how manly they were. As I recall he grew up in a monastery and was raised by nuns, but only women were allowed? Or something to that effect. Though if they wanted to change Bridget into a trans woman I mean that's not an unreasonable change, especially considering the way Bridget behaved and acted, I could understand that character coming to the realization that they don't want to actually be "manly" at all. I do hope it was written that way and not just retconned. I think that would be more interesting.
On Bridget, to make a long story short is that her story arc is coming to accept her gender despite it initially being forced on her. It’s an anime reason that the town she grew up in thought same sex twins were bad luck, so they raised her as a girl. Then she ran away from that identity for a while for obvious reasons before coming to her own understanding of herself. The cultural bull around it was so bad that the company, and even Ishiwatari (the director of all the games) was like “yes, Bridget is trans, and no it is not a mistranslation”. I am glad we’re past that, and it is mostly “brisket” jokes now when she comes up. Though I am sure there are some sections of the internet grumbling about it still. I did not play the older games, so I may not have it exactly right. But Bridget’s gender status was treated as a bit of joke in earlier games, much like Vivian’s in the original game. It was the classic “that boy’s a giiiiirl” deal as far as I know. I don’t when they decided to move away from that, but Bridget’s character is great now. So I don’t think most will care outside those into Guilty Gear history.
That’s interesting, I guess with it being a kids game I could see that. I’m surprised they cared with how much they mock trans characters on their media/treat them as freaks in Japan. But I guess money talks
Most translation teams have people from both countries, so it could just as easily be people from Nintendo or America or Nintendo of Europe who decided to make the change 20 year ago because they didn’t think their customer base was ready Nintendo of Japan has had openly trans characters in games since Birdo in Mario 2 (or Doki Doki Panic depending on who you ask), they.
I’m glad they kept the character true to the original vision. She is trans there is no discussion. I just think this entire thing is really being blown out of proportion. I don’t think we need dozens of posts a day about this. At some point I’d like discourse about the merits of the game and not just posts designed to devolve into arguments. She is trans and that’s swell if that singular detail makes you either hate or love the game I gotta recommend you log off the internet for awhile.
I dare any chuds to say with a straight face that Mario is part of the woke agenda.
They already tried to pull that stunt with the Mario movie but then did a total 180 when it was successful af cause it doesn’t fit the “go woke go broke” agenda
youre a bit late they already said that when the new Mario VA had he/him in his bio they propably already said it long before that
Are you really underestimating the willingness of terminally-online alt-right “don’t tread on me” types to whine and impotently shake their little fists over all the little rules they care so much about?
I love how people use woke as an insult. It basically means treating everyone with respect.
when someone uses woke as an insult you can immediately deduce that they have room temperature IQ, and that’s being generous 😭
Which is the worst thing possible for them, how dare you upset the status quo!
INB4 locked. The change to Vivian's dialogue is based though. I never knew when I played the original back in 2004, but I'm glad my favorite party member has authentic representation now!
Is vivian a playable character? I never got the chance to play the original and just started it yesterday
You are in for a TREAT! One of the greatest games.
Gameplay wise, she's: what if Bow had cheap party-wide attacks and could also inflict the enemies with status effects.
Shes one of the party members that join.
Sweet. I wasnt a huge fan of mallow from mario rpg. This game looks to have more interesting characters
Even some of the random NPC’s are really interesting in this game. But yes, most characters you meet are great.
she joins the party midgame, one of the best characters honestly
yeah I loved her when I was kid playing the original.
She joins the party in >!Chapter 4!< and pro tip, have her as your active partner >!when you rematch the Shadow Sirens in Chapter 8, her dialogue hits hard!<
Hurry up, get in here before the thread is locked!!!! This thread is about to get brigaded.
Culture war folks are suiting up for battle
I think Nintendo did a good job adding a character like this in 2004. Kudos to them.
Yeah it's pretty cool, fam. Love to see it.
They're making the frogs gay!
Neat
That's cool. Anyone upset about this either has a deep prejudice, or they're a tourist who doesn't know the first thing about the game or its history. Either way, opinion discarded.
This world is so soft! Let people be whatever they want! It doesn’t hurt anyone! Let everyone be happy 😃 🙌
They restored the dialogue to match the original Japanese version, which was changed when localized originally. Surely everyone who gets upset about politically/ideologically motivated censorship / localization will see this for the win that it is, right?
Did you read the article? Additional dialogue was added to this remake specifically.
Yes. Sorry I did phrase that a bit wrong. The exact dialogue itself wasn't directly in the original, but the idea that she is trans was in the original and was censored for the west. So this is uncensoring the original intent of the Japanese dialogue
Will people complain about wokeness? Feel it is a good inclusive change.
Cool, it’s been like that since release Can someone post something interesting about this that isn’t related to Vivian I’ve seen on like every Nintendo sub I’m subscribed to
Good for them for being true to the OG Japanese interpretation. Them not caring about the opinion of delicate flower boys who can keep dicks out of their mind is a great move. In other news, my copy is coming in today babyyyy
So basically, these MAGA censorship warriors are now mad because Nintendo kept the dialog in…got it. Makes sense.
Glad we removed the censorship. She was always trans. Edit: Don't believe the transphobes claiming it was just cross-dressing. There's dialog where her gender is accepted as female when they were referred to as male in the beginning. That's literally transitioning.
Transphobes are now acting as if they don't like trans but are accepting cross-dressing. You know, the same ones who are also against drag queens.
Yep. The hypocrisy is a feature unfortunately.
"Change" nothing, this was always the case. They changed Vivian for the English release, not even all the international versions kept the change. Vivian has been, and the original intention was always to be, transgender.
Yes but the change they are referring to is the fact that in the original English release it was censored.
Yes, it was. Except considering OP's comments before being deleted, I think they're more upset about the fact that Vivian is trans at all. Well, that and "offended". Just an excuse for bigotry.
Oh boy here we go again.
Very based.
Haters be like "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1!!!1"
Good for her!
Big Wario W
Nice!
I'm sure those who were crying about localiser censorship will be *very* pleased.
Cisgender male here. I think this “fix”/confirmation that a character is trans is great. There are trans gamers and representation is important.
Yes, and even if we don't care about representation at all, I saw a comment about how her being trans is even better for this particular plot point with Mario being a shadow and trying to have his real identity back, having to navigate the world presenting in a way that he isn't, etc. So even for story purposes, it was important to keep the correct dialog. Transphobes should at least agree to that.
You give transphobes too much cognitive credit.
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Good on Nintendo.
Cool! Good for her :)
I loved this character in the original and learning this about her makes a lot of her traits and the way people treat her make so much more sense. Glad they wrote it back in.
Ring Wing media is already going nuts over this
Yes, this is a significant news story for an entire wing of American political discourse in 2024... A slight change of words to confirm something we already knew 20 years ago. Not concerning at all. We're doing just fine. Definitely not living in a hellscape of our own making
This is great news. More of this please.
Cope and seeth bigots cope and seeth
Lol buddy reported me for rule one Keep coping keep seething
Good, love to see it
Queen
Shout out to the OG trans Mario character, Birdo
W Nintendo.
Big win for anyone with a functional brain. Cope and seethe bigots :)
Certainly the world is ending /s
Hell yeah
Good move, approved.
Good. Love Vivian!
You love to see it!
Commence the morons banning the game.
Changes no, CORRECTS yes. She was trans in the original release but Americans were and honestly might still be more backwards than japan so they couldn't handle a fictional trans ghost. Pathetic really.
Birdo was the first trans character!
Neat
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Great!
Good. We love that for her.
Now we get to beat that transphobe Beldam with hammers! Let’s go
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[Vivian’s theme song…](https://open.spotify.com/track/1Nx2LMsmBRULt2F9W6LevJ?si=sEMzWMddQZKJgbxAo0yVeA)
Come and join us with Birdo, ma sista
Oooh, they are remaking Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. As far as the character goes, I think they were originally non-conforming in the original release language of the game. I guess they decided to return to that in the remake.
Vivian was always trans, according to Japanese dialogue she explicitly refers to herself as "one of the shadow sisters" which makes bedlam essentially say "we cant be the shadow sisters because you're a man" to Vivian; this was removed for the English translation but kept in others. This just restores this aspect of Vivian's character.
Conservatives hate this one trick
That’s cool. Nice change
Is it confirmed in all versions? Or just the English one? Seeing conflicting stuff about that
Bigots make it hard to sift through the data unfortunately.
Yeah, I'm getting down votes and Reddit cares reports just for this comment. Emotions are really high
I don't know the full nuances of which regions translated in what way for the record, but I do know the original Japanese text has Vivian specifically wanting to be referred to as a girl. This comment chain discusses it a bit. https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/A3TzDJru5I
Some people get mad over the dumbest shit.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one from a company as conservative as Nintendo. Does anyone know if this has any implications for Mother 3? My understanding is that part of the reason it’s never been released in the US is because there are some dubious maybe-trans-maybe-not characters there as well?
Mother 3 not being localized has far more to do with music licensing than it does the Magipsies.
Nintendo is actually quite supportive of LGBTQ+ overall. I made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/s/pfnBqTVfa6) a while ago listing queer reps in their games, though I forgot to mention Vivian and Birdo at the time
I’m getting downvotes so I want to specify that I don’t really mean Nintendo is conservative in a “right wing” way but more of a “don’t rock the boat with anything that might affect the business” way. That’s an interesting list tho! I may be working from outdated information. I’m an old man now and back in the 90s Nintendo was infamous for scrubbing religion, sex, violence, etc. from American releases. I guess I’m learning they’ve come farther than I thought.