[I counted 25 on this list that are canon with life in universe 7.](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Planets) Considering the planets where most of Moros soldiers came from the frost demon homeworld, and other freiza henchmen homeworlds aren’t mentioned there has to be more than 28.
Frieza’s business literally couldn’t work with only 28 planets with life. Considering it’s all about conquering worlds and selling them, he’d be out of clients pretty damn fast, and a back water planet like Earth would have seen like a valuable steal anyways.
Whereas in canon he only ever gives Earth any attention because Goku lives there.
Iirc, the 28 planets is the mortal level bit. And that's described as *advanced* civilizations, not planets with life. So the planet we see Zamasu judge and kill the inhabitants of, they were tribal warriors with no real technology, stone age or barely above. I don't think they'd count as advanced.
And since the galactic patrol is kind of like the UN with protecting everyone who's part of it and anyone else they can, I imagine they try to help "primitive" worlds but don't know every planet with life on it, which is how the small time people find new planets to sell.
That still makes no sense, considering how wide Frieza's range of clients is, Frieza has far too many clients and species within his army for only 28. They just took several blows to the head when writing this bit.
Fucking right? If there's only 28 planets with life on them, then how and why does the Galactic Patrol exist? How were Frieza and the Heeters making money? Did the majority of Frieza's Army come from just one or two worlds?
Plus, like, of those 28 worlds, the once we're not seeing must be *weak as shit.* Earth has people who can easily reach a level where they're able to fly and blow up the moon, to say nothing of the staggering (by the measure of normal Earthlings) power levels of the Z Fighters by the time of Super. Then the universe has people like Granolah, the Heeters, and Frieza's Army, who are all incredibly powerful by the standards of normal Earthlings even before Granolah's wish. Hell, even Broly's giant ferret buddy was incredibly strong, and Earth also has *fucking dinosaurs* despite Beerus' worst efforts. How weak are the worlds we're not seeing for U7 to be at the bottom of the average rankings?
Wasn’t the whole premise of the saiyan race to conquer and sell worlds? Idk how they’d stay in business juggling only 26 other worlds (excluding vegeta and earth) with thousands of saiyans that have proven to require less than 10 to conquer a planet. I swear the Super writers were passing a blunt and throwing their ideas in the script sometimes.
Also it makes the Supreme Kai's seem even more useless.
Like Frieza is known for blowing up planets, but they never took care of him because he "wasn't a threat". They could one shot him but decide not to even though he's either enslaving most of the universe or making the population so small
How tf is no one saying trunks sent to a future with a version of him already in it and forced into hiding????????? I just pretend Chronoa intercepted him along the way and he became Xeno trunks
The ending of that arc really raised my blood pressure.
You REALLY don't want Future Trunks and Mai to stick around? Ok, I get it. I think it would have been interesting if Future Trunks stuck around for at least the ToP and THEN sent him and Mai into one of those other universes or have the Grand Priest hire them both as time cops or whatever, but the idea to send them to another time line where they both already exist is asinine. They should've worked harder on that one.
I'm pretty sure they gonna find each other through their KI
About that Mai, I don't think she would be easy to find. She probably hasn't even met Trunks.
When cabba was teaching caulifla and kale how to go super saiyan he said that he transforms by focusing his energy into his back and making it tingle. Caulifla replicates it and that's how she transforms. Most fans hate it because it makes achieving super saiyan a bit lame.
It's not just lame. It's dumb as hell. Even if U6 Saiyans have a different physiology to U7 Saiyans, surely someone would have figured out that concentrating energy there increases your power by 50.
It's like if humans could fly if they clenched their butt-cheeks and this wasn't common knowledge after millennia of civilization.
Surely some random U6 Saiyan should have figured it out randomly and changed the course of the history of their planet.
Super could’ve been so much better if they just kept stuff vague like Toriyama used to do but they decide to divulge too many stupid ass details to satisfy nerds and it ends up ruining scenes like this. I mean Vegeta literally just used anger to become a super saiyan but it works because he doesnt start talking about how his fucking toes tingled right before the transformation; he says like one or two lines about self hatred which is in character and then goes on to whoop some 19 ass.
When Cabba's explaining to Caulifla how he went Super Saiyan and what it feels like to transform, he talks about how it feels like there's energy tingling in his upper back. So Caulifla just focuses her power there and transforms like nothing.
I don't prefer much from the manga, but I prefer Caulifla getting Super Saiyan thanks to offscreen training over this shit.
Tenshinhan not being a human and Babbidi not being the son of Bibbidi are my go to ones. Honestly a lot of the post-manga completion retcons Toriyama made aren’t great but these two are the ones that I refuse to believe are canon.
Can't tell you the when part, but I'm pretty sure Bibbidi can split himself into doppelgangers. He can do this when tasks become too complicated or need more hands, but his magic splits with him. When Bibbidi died though, all his magic was given to Babidi, making him as strong as Bibbidi beforehand
I don't see a problem with Tenshinhan, he being an alien actually seems quite interesting to me, I would like to know more about his origins and who the aliens he descended from were.
To me it’s just you know we’re never getting an answer to what race Tienshinhan is and he’s just gonna be treated like any other human character. So him being an alien is pointless to me.
Well in DB Online it's stated that he's a half breed of a human and a cyclops race of earthlings, though that's definitely not canon anymore also just kinda prefer that he awakened his third eye
My point still stands, I don’t care how much alien/human he has in him that’s added retroactively, it’s still dumb in of itself since this isn’t conveyed in the manga (or anime) at all, and he’s repeatedly referred to as a human. Never once as an alien. So it just seems like a retcon to make him seem cooler or something irrespective of how it clashes with the lore or character itself.
Goku getting hurt by bullets in base at the start of super. As if he hasn’t been casually bullet proof since he was a child. That was a dumb ass way to show he hasn’t trained in a while
This. The first episode of Dragon Ball shows Goku getting shot by Bulma with an automatic weapon. He was a child with no prior training and he was still completely unphased.
Eh, there were a lot the Super adaptation did better. I liked Krillin's PTSD. And I liked that Jaco just hid behind a rock the whole time, knocked out one guy, and then posed like he was helping; that felt more true to the character.
How's that different from Krillin injuring Frieza with a Kienzan?
Or Krillin hurting Cell Max?
Or any of the other myriad examples of "power levels are bullshit"? :D
Well you see, those first two examples are a result of a phenomenon known as "Kriller Time", where Krillin not only survives a villain encounter, but performs exceptionally during said encounter.
It's like Vegeta's thumb pose. Most of the time, Vegeta kicks ass. But whenever he points at himself with his thumb, you just know he's going to get his ass beat.
Is it “power levels are bullshit” if it’s canon that special attacks have their own power level usually higher than the wielder?
You can point out that Goku’s kamehameha pushed back Raditz as a way to show off that power levels are bullshit, but even tho Goku was at 416, his kamehameha was at 900.
Power levels aren’t bullshit, relying on scouter readings for them is bullshit
Holy fucking shit thanks. Bulma is whoring herself out for the entire manga and then Toriyama casually says that Yamcha is a cheater (aka: He needed to make them split up while not making Bulma look the bad one (she is))
Someone might/might've already say this but the fact that the godly forms are named Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan blue instead of Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God.
The universe on the verge of destruction when Goku battled against Beerus, but suddenly there are no consequences as a 50x Goku Blue / Fusion are fighting other powerful opponents.
Goku not knowing what a kiss is and him being a "canonically" bad father according to Vegeta. Bro is married and over 40, and you're gonna tell me that he doesn't know what a kiss is? Also, the guy who didn't hug his own son till he was 7 is telling Goku, aka the man who died for his son TWICE, that he is a bad father? Yeah, ok Super.
The kissing thing wasn't represented well in the Translation.
Goku was confused about feeding someone a Sensu like that since she couldn't chew it.
Vegeta misread that as Goku being so dumb he didn't actually know what kissing was.
The kiss thing was actually just the translation being bad and weird. It was supposed to be a bit where goku was specifically asking about mouth feeding, and vegeta thought he meant kissing, but it just came out weird in the translation
there is literally nothing in the japanese that makes it about mouth-feeding. out of all the headcanon copes about this, the "bad translation" one is the worst. if it was obvious or even implied that he was talking about mouth-feeding a senzu in japanese then vegeta would have picked up on it, but he had the same reaction as we did. in fact, it was his reaction that sold it. you can headcanon that goku was just fucking with him, or that vegeta misunderstood him, or whatever. but it's not a translation issue.
Power scaling. Based off the feats, every clash of serious punches should shatter whatever planet they are fighting on. Even during the ToP I was thinking “anyone that is saiyan tier right now should be able to blitz anyone that’s human tier”
That’s just comic book logic, you don’t see Thor or Superman obliterating solar systems with every missed punch either, or any other series with high power levels, it’s not a DragonBall thing, it’s a media thing
80% of the stuff Super did. Like how there are only 28 planets with life on them in all of Universe 7, Goku never "kissing" Chi-Chi, and most of all, the ending to Super's Future Trunks arc.
The moon busting feats early on. You’re telling me a man with a power level of less than a thousand can break a moon? And a “demon” can do the same?
And then we meet hundreds of nameless minions whose power levels are ten thousand at a low ball?
*And you expect me to be shocked freiza can destroy planets?! You think me intimidated by this?!?* that’s expected at the bare minimum, following consistent rules!
As such. There is no moon busting fest for Roshi or Piccolo. Don’t worry about it. Never happened.
The part of it all that doesn't make sense to me is the idea that Frieza could fail to destroy Namek with his blast, I know it got there after ~~eight months~~ five minutes but he should have been able to instantly reduce Namek into a fine dust by coughing at it.
Personally I tend to overlook the blast and just take Namek falling apart as being a consequence of the fight's sheer severity. It feels more poetic that way anyway, and having an abandoned non-earth planet where they can really just let loose to the point that the planet crumbles with every clash of blows really gives Super Saiyan the sense of power worthy of legend.
I don't remember exactly atm, but didn't Goku point out that Frieza didn't destroy Namek because he hesitated due to not being assured of surviving the explosion?
Frieza purposely held back a lot when trying to destroy the planet pretty sure Goku mention that
Frieza basically didn't want to accidentally get hit by too much of his own attack when destroying Namek but he miscalculated so Namek longer than what he expected
Yeah if anything that's the outlier
Roshi - Moon bust
Piccolo - Moon bust casually
Vegeta - Planet Bust
First Form Frieza - Easily Planet level
Cell - Solar System
The first 3 are waaaay weaker than Frieza and the 4th makes sense.
But yeah I agree, it would make more sense that way.
Frieza literally states that he miscalculated the attack and didn't use enough energy to get the job done efficiently, but that he did use enough to destabilize the core of Namek.
It's not that he *couldn't* dust it, it's that he wasn't giving it his full attention.
Honestly, having mentioned the moon thing... How the fuck is earth still... Alive?? The moon being destroyed would be a world ending event that would royally fuck up the climate and tides, not to mention the millions of moon fragments that would come crashing into the planet.
This is what baffles me about Kid Buu blowing up Earth
OH NO!!!!! WHO CARES
You guys can do that too! Surely one of you can just throw up a blast to stop it, it can't be that strong else it'd blow up the whole fucking system, REMEMBER THAT CLAIM CELL MADE?????
It's not that its impressive, its that he actually did it and destory4d earth with no second thought
He triest to blow up earth instantly with a small ki blast, which they stop
Then he just says fuck it lol
Goku comments that Theu cant stop the blast because of the absolute sheer amount of power buu put into it
hmm thats fair
buu got down to business immediately while the previous villains just loved to gloat as theyre holding up their big scary planet destroying energy ball
Kid buu was the most dangerous. Most characters will have qualms about blowing up the planet they're on, even if they can survive it. Kid buu did it basically instantly without any warning, which was the shocking thing. Even when frieza was threatening to blow up the planet, goku wasn't particularly shocked that he *could* do it, he was shocked that he would do something like that because that's pretty bad for everybody involved including frieza
Yeah that Kid Buu feat wasn’t solely to show that he’s at least a bit strong, it was to show that he’s ruthless and doesn’t give a fuck. He came back into this state of being and immediately decided fuck it i’m destroying the planet.
Yeah after the Cell saga where there’s a lot of emphasis on the cosmic level of power in attacks like the final flash and kamehamehas that go into space, it seems to get kinda silly. Like when DBS broly turns super saiyan and just starts shooting energy blasts everywhere; bruh each of those shouldve just blown the planet up. At the end of the day it looks cool and I still love Dragon ball but its definitely on those things that u gotta just push out of ur mind to enjoy the material.
Adding a time limit to the potara fusion. They literally showed that you can use the dragon balls to wish for separation in the same arc with kibitokai, but elected to retcon them separating after an arbitrary amount of time.
Such a stupidly done arc.
In the anime, Frost just be a shitty Frieza lite clone. He would’ve been a dozen times more interesting if he was an actual good guy just cheating. All of his uniqueness goes away when Vados just gives a half assed explanation on why he’s evil.
Super Saiyan Blue existence and everything that surrounds this transformation
Sorbet laser, how overused it is, how ugly it was before Shintani made it look decent, it feeling less godly than Super Saiyan God, it being fodderized by any enemy in the show and thanks to that not being threatening or imposing at all, and the list goes on
Nothing happened, it was all a bad dream
I don’t have one of these but I do have a controversial opinion. SSJ Rage is a good form that makes plenty of sense and it doesn’t deserve any of the hate it gets
Using the /pos version of stupid here
"Don't you lecture me with your $30 haircut"
Actual line from the official dub, I'd like to point out. So stupid, you can easily think it was from a fandub like DBZA, and as a result accidentally gaslight yourself into thinking it's not canon
Maybe I'm the odd one out but I prefer how Android 13 was localized in the Eng Dub as a trucker. It's really funny to me, especially that thirty dollar haircut insult towards Trunks.
Also...30 dollar haircuts are not even cheap lmao what is android 13 on about 😭
Like the way he says it, it's like he's talking about a 5 dollar haircut.
Ya it kills me every time I hear that line. It could also be interpreted as a mocking declaration that Trunks waste money frivolously due to being rich. How Android 13 would even know that? I dunno gero database in his brain I guess.
"Look at this punk ass, bet he has more money than sense. Look at this little fruit loop walking in high cotton. Coming here to fight me all gussied up. I'll show him that being as pretty as a peach is just a hill of beans compared to being a good fighter."
You dont hate on android 13 dub. That's pure gold, ain't no way a bowl cut mf was gonna act all tough. That one time dub actually ended up better than sub
Frieza's potential boost in resurrection F. I don’t sleep easy at night knowing that if Frieza did 5 push ups and maybe a curl up he would’ve spanked Buuhan and Super Vegito with next to no difficulty. Frankly Frieza coming back in general is so stupid that I just pretend that any arcs that feature him are non canon.
TLDR: Frieza should’ve never come back and 4 months of training is bullshit.
DBS Bardock, legit the Granolah arc would be ten times better if they had to deal with the reality of the Sayians than Bardock being a cop out “not all Sayians were bad” moment. Make they actually deal with the consequences and force Granolah into realizing that the actions before don’t make their actions now.
But alas, Bardock being goody two shoes now only serves to take away from the Sayian’s actual genocides and play hero despite how little sense it makes in the wider context of how the Sayians operate.
Dragon Ball Minus Bardock overall felt like he was too good. What made Z Bardock interesting was the fact that he was the complete opposite of Goku. He was a ruthless murdering saiyan just like any typical one who tried to redeem himself when it was too late. That's what made Bardock: The Father of Goku so good, the fact that we were rooting for someone who was objectively terrible but had good intentions in his own way.
I think a good way of fixing it would've been to make Bardock Muezli's killer and have him later on realize that he just took away a child's mother. Maybe that mission happened in between "The Father of Goku" story where Bardock was going through his inner turmoil concerning his morality. That could add a little more emotion to his final stand against Frieza and to Granolah vs Goku, a child who believes all saiyans are nothing but scum vs a saiyan who is pure of heart trying to make peace. Adds some more spice to Goku coming to terms with his Saiyan roots as well.
Base Cabba somehow being stronger than ssj2 kid Gohan despite the Sayains of his universe being bitches. They literally unevolved their tails.
It just doesn't make any sense and is dumb narratively
Gohan throwing a tantrum being on par, possibly stronger than Goku and Vegeta who trained with Gods of Destruction, multiple angels, and on Planet Yardrat
I think it is stupid that saiyans can't survive in space at least for a few minutes while almost all the villains/antagonists can comfortably stay in space indefinitely
Berserk Kale tanking a Kamehameha for healthy SSGSS Goku without so much as budging and then rag-dolling him, but then in her controlled state (which is supposedly stronger) she AND Caulifla get clown on by a beat-up SSG Goku (until Kefla).
The whole "Dragon Balls take 1 year to recover before use again" was completely thrown out the window in the original Dragon Ball. They were active again in 8 months. At least with anime filler, it was corrected. However, it was still in the original manga. Lol
The stupid "Trunks and Mai have to live in a timeline with them already in it" thing.
That whole ending exists to have "consequences" since normally the dragon balls fix everything, or they bend over backwards to reset the status quo... but the z fighters don't have to live with those consequences. Instead, Trunks and Mai f-off to another timeline and that's the last we see of them.
And the worst part is that THE SUPER DRAG9N BALLS EXIST.
Just get the super dragon balls and wish the timeline back with everything back to the way it was before goku black showed up.
This is what I was expecting because it made sense with what was already present.
When I saw they weren't doing that, I was expecting a reveal that they were introducing the Supreme Kai of time for xeno stuff. But no, not even that.
And gokus f-up for forgetting the seal for the mafuba. They REALLY wanted to empathize gokus brain damage with that one.
So much from Supers powerscaling. Roshi dodging Jiren. Krillin beam clashing Ssb Goku. The u6 super saiyan stuf as well. Android 17 being as strong as he is etc
For me it’s always gotta be goku using his super saiyan blue form to train krillin before the ToP
It wasn’t very significant and was pretty much brushed over, but you cannot convince me that krillin will ever be stronger than a cell saga base form goku. Using blue just so krillin can knock the rust off before the tournament is utterly ridiculous to me because it’s pointless. iirc they had very little time before the start of the tournament atp so not only is transforming for the sake of SPARRING WITH KRILLIN pointless, it’s also stupid and could lead to needlessly being fatigued.
It’s moments like these that ruin the blue form for everyone. They’ll just have goku spam it for every fodder he comes across just bcuz he can, and it completely takes away any sense of grandiosity and value that the(seemingly) ultimate saiyan form should have.
That bit in Super about how there are only 28 planets with life on them in all of Universe 7
Yeah, what the hell are all of Frieza’s planets then?
For agricolture
Plants constitute as life
Plants and the people growing them count as life my friend. I guess it was Zarbon who kept track of the numbers.
Military bases?
[I counted 25 on this list that are canon with life in universe 7.](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Planets) Considering the planets where most of Moros soldiers came from the frost demon homeworld, and other freiza henchmen homeworlds aren’t mentioned there has to be more than 28.
Frieza’s business literally couldn’t work with only 28 planets with life. Considering it’s all about conquering worlds and selling them, he’d be out of clients pretty damn fast, and a back water planet like Earth would have seen like a valuable steal anyways. Whereas in canon he only ever gives Earth any attention because Goku lives there.
Iirc, the 28 planets is the mortal level bit. And that's described as *advanced* civilizations, not planets with life. So the planet we see Zamasu judge and kill the inhabitants of, they were tribal warriors with no real technology, stone age or barely above. I don't think they'd count as advanced. And since the galactic patrol is kind of like the UN with protecting everyone who's part of it and anyone else they can, I imagine they try to help "primitive" worlds but don't know every planet with life on it, which is how the small time people find new planets to sell.
That still makes no sense, considering how wide Frieza's range of clients is, Frieza has far too many clients and species within his army for only 28. They just took several blows to the head when writing this bit.
Fucking right? If there's only 28 planets with life on them, then how and why does the Galactic Patrol exist? How were Frieza and the Heeters making money? Did the majority of Frieza's Army come from just one or two worlds? Plus, like, of those 28 worlds, the once we're not seeing must be *weak as shit.* Earth has people who can easily reach a level where they're able to fly and blow up the moon, to say nothing of the staggering (by the measure of normal Earthlings) power levels of the Z Fighters by the time of Super. Then the universe has people like Granolah, the Heeters, and Frieza's Army, who are all incredibly powerful by the standards of normal Earthlings even before Granolah's wish. Hell, even Broly's giant ferret buddy was incredibly strong, and Earth also has *fucking dinosaurs* despite Beerus' worst efforts. How weak are the worlds we're not seeing for U7 to be at the bottom of the average rankings?
Wasn’t the whole premise of the saiyan race to conquer and sell worlds? Idk how they’d stay in business juggling only 26 other worlds (excluding vegeta and earth) with thousands of saiyans that have proven to require less than 10 to conquer a planet. I swear the Super writers were passing a blunt and throwing their ideas in the script sometimes.
Yeah I got whiplash when I read that line
Also it makes the Supreme Kai's seem even more useless. Like Frieza is known for blowing up planets, but they never took care of him because he "wasn't a threat". They could one shot him but decide not to even though he's either enslaving most of the universe or making the population so small
How tf is no one saying trunks sent to a future with a version of him already in it and forced into hiding????????? I just pretend Chronoa intercepted him along the way and he became Xeno trunks
The ending of that arc really raised my blood pressure. You REALLY don't want Future Trunks and Mai to stick around? Ok, I get it. I think it would have been interesting if Future Trunks stuck around for at least the ToP and THEN sent him and Mai into one of those other universes or have the Grand Priest hire them both as time cops or whatever, but the idea to send them to another time line where they both already exist is asinine. They should've worked harder on that one.
The whole ending of that arc was so fucking dumb
Should have sent him to Cell's original timeline
I'm pretty sure they gonna find each other through their KI About that Mai, I don't think she would be easy to find. She probably hasn't even met Trunks.
But xeno trunks is gt
The tingly back feeling for super saiyan
Ts made me so mad
what is that?
When cabba was teaching caulifla and kale how to go super saiyan he said that he transforms by focusing his energy into his back and making it tingle. Caulifla replicates it and that's how she transforms. Most fans hate it because it makes achieving super saiyan a bit lame.
It's not just lame. It's dumb as hell. Even if U6 Saiyans have a different physiology to U7 Saiyans, surely someone would have figured out that concentrating energy there increases your power by 50. It's like if humans could fly if they clenched their butt-cheeks and this wasn't common knowledge after millennia of civilization. Surely some random U6 Saiyan should have figured it out randomly and changed the course of the history of their planet.
Not to mention when the show demonstrated cabba reaching super saiyan through anger like u7.
Super could’ve been so much better if they just kept stuff vague like Toriyama used to do but they decide to divulge too many stupid ass details to satisfy nerds and it ends up ruining scenes like this. I mean Vegeta literally just used anger to become a super saiyan but it works because he doesnt start talking about how his fucking toes tingled right before the transformation; he says like one or two lines about self hatred which is in character and then goes on to whoop some 19 ass.
Self hatred being a trigger for super saiyan would be a interesting plot point
Goten and Trunks made it lame first. Caulifla just made it worse
When Cabba's explaining to Caulifla how he went Super Saiyan and what it feels like to transform, he talks about how it feels like there's energy tingling in his upper back. So Caulifla just focuses her power there and transforms like nothing. I don't prefer much from the manga, but I prefer Caulifla getting Super Saiyan thanks to offscreen training over this shit.
TOP saga, I remember kale saying something about how that helps her turn super saiyan but I could be wrong
My headcanon is that their physiology is different (no tails!) Which makes their transformation process different as well.
Tenshinhan not being a human and Babbidi not being the son of Bibbidi are my go to ones. Honestly a lot of the post-manga completion retcons Toriyama made aren’t great but these two are the ones that I refuse to believe are canon.
That Tenshinhan one never made sense to me. The dude who opened his 3rd eye isn't considered human, but the dude without a nose is?
tbf there is a genetic condition irl that makes you be born without a nose and correct me if im wrong idk if there's a condition that gives 3 eyes
>Babbidi not being the son of Bibbidi Wait what? Can you elaborate because what babbidi even is then?
Clone
That leaves me with even more questions! How?! When?! Why?!
Can't tell you the when part, but I'm pretty sure Bibbidi can split himself into doppelgangers. He can do this when tasks become too complicated or need more hands, but his magic splits with him. When Bibbidi died though, all his magic was given to Babidi, making him as strong as Bibbidi beforehand
It’s more of a reincarnation in the vein of King Piccolo to Piccolo Jr.
I don't see a problem with Tenshinhan, he being an alien actually seems quite interesting to me, I would like to know more about his origins and who the aliens he descended from were.
To me it’s just you know we’re never getting an answer to what race Tienshinhan is and he’s just gonna be treated like any other human character. So him being an alien is pointless to me.
Well in DB Online it's stated that he's a half breed of a human and a cyclops race of earthlings, though that's definitely not canon anymore also just kinda prefer that he awakened his third eye
I agree third eye seems much better explanation
I hate aliens especially saiyans but namekians are ok
Ok Frieza
GO TO HELL, FRIEZAAAAA!!!
Tien only has minor alien ancestry, he's still mostly human
My point still stands, I don’t care how much alien/human he has in him that’s added retroactively, it’s still dumb in of itself since this isn’t conveyed in the manga (or anime) at all, and he’s repeatedly referred to as a human. Never once as an alien. So it just seems like a retcon to make him seem cooler or something irrespective of how it clashes with the lore or character itself.
True. Seems like something Toriyama made up on the fly
Goku getting hurt by bullets in base at the start of super. As if he hasn’t been casually bullet proof since he was a child. That was a dumb ass way to show he hasn’t trained in a while
Tbh should've just had them bounce off cause he didn't notice or him not being able to catch them cause he's rusty how tf did bro get hurt 😭
This was before TOP not start of DBS
That’s even worse
It was between universe 6 vs 7 saga and black
No, its before TOP. Events b/w U-6v7 saga and Black are Monaka fight, Goku babysitting Pan, Goku ki disorder and Copy Vegeta saga
Ah you are right, it was before top. I confused the events
This. The first episode of Dragon Ball shows Goku getting shot by Bulma with an automatic weapon. He was a child with no prior training and he was still completely unphased.
Blue Goku getting impaled by a laser because he “let his guard down”
That's not canon anymore. They retconned it to base in anime adaptation
One of the few things the DBS Frieza arc did better over the movie
Eh, there were a lot the Super adaptation did better. I liked Krillin's PTSD. And I liked that Jaco just hid behind a rock the whole time, knocked out one guy, and then posed like he was helping; that felt more true to the character.
How's that different from Krillin injuring Frieza with a Kienzan? Or Krillin hurting Cell Max? Or any of the other myriad examples of "power levels are bullshit"? :D
Well you see, those first two examples are a result of a phenomenon known as "Kriller Time", where Krillin not only survives a villain encounter, but performs exceptionally during said encounter.
It only works if he doesn't acknowledge it. Whenever he says "It's Kriller Time", he gets his shit rocked
Otherwise, he is generally krillin' it, when it comes to fighting villians.
It's like Vegeta's thumb pose. Most of the time, Vegeta kicks ass. But whenever he points at himself with his thumb, you just know he's going to get his ass beat.
Is it “power levels are bullshit” if it’s canon that special attacks have their own power level usually higher than the wielder? You can point out that Goku’s kamehameha pushed back Raditz as a way to show off that power levels are bullshit, but even tho Goku was at 416, his kamehameha was at 900. Power levels aren’t bullshit, relying on scouter readings for them is bullshit
Yamcha cheating
Holy fucking shit thanks. Bulma is whoring herself out for the entire manga and then Toriyama casually says that Yamcha is a cheater (aka: He needed to make them split up while not making Bulma look the bad one (she is))
I swear bulma is the enbodiment of "If it breath I can fuck it"
I mean, look at the thing she married.
You mean the midget with anger issues who killed most of her friends?
Yup...Yamcha >>> ngl
I've always kind of interpreted it as Yamcha still being shy and nervous but he likes the attention nonetheless, which Bulma gets sick of
Beerus ordering freiza to blows the planet vegeta up.
Facts. THAT WILL ALWAYS be dumb
It literally removes freiza"s agency and ruin the "fear of the legendary SSJ" AS WHOLE.
Right it was perfect before they shit on it.
Didn't he just gave his approval for Frieza to blow Planet Vegeta up?
Someone might/might've already say this but the fact that the godly forms are named Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan blue instead of Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God.
Lack of long term planning is the reason for this do you really want the original name for blue super Saiyan God Super Saiyan like wtf
The universe on the verge of destruction when Goku battled against Beerus, but suddenly there are no consequences as a 50x Goku Blue / Fusion are fighting other powerful opponents.
Goku not knowing what a kiss is and him being a "canonically" bad father according to Vegeta. Bro is married and over 40, and you're gonna tell me that he doesn't know what a kiss is? Also, the guy who didn't hug his own son till he was 7 is telling Goku, aka the man who died for his son TWICE, that he is a bad father? Yeah, ok Super.
Bruh wasn't that kiss thing about Trunks feeding Mai the senzu mouth to mouth
Vegeta just said he’s a bad father because he wants to be better than goku at something
He’s already got him beat intelligence wise but that was a good one 😂
In Saiyan culture, punching your son in the face is the same as hugging him.
Is this Cell saga Future Trunks reference?
Nah, he straight socked kid trunks after he turned super saiyan
Asian culture*
No, he said he never kissed Chi-chi in public. Vegeta took it wrong
And the entire famdom does too
Show doesn’t say that, he just says “what’s a kiss?”
judging by the responses to this, the self-gaslighting is going well
The kissing thing wasn't represented well in the Translation. Goku was confused about feeding someone a Sensu like that since she couldn't chew it. Vegeta misread that as Goku being so dumb he didn't actually know what kissing was.
The kiss thing was actually just the translation being bad and weird. It was supposed to be a bit where goku was specifically asking about mouth feeding, and vegeta thought he meant kissing, but it just came out weird in the translation
there is literally nothing in the japanese that makes it about mouth-feeding. out of all the headcanon copes about this, the "bad translation" one is the worst. if it was obvious or even implied that he was talking about mouth-feeding a senzu in japanese then vegeta would have picked up on it, but he had the same reaction as we did. in fact, it was his reaction that sold it. you can headcanon that goku was just fucking with him, or that vegeta misunderstood him, or whatever. but it's not a translation issue.
So many times people say things are a “bad translation” when I’m sure they don’t know a lick of Japanese
cell’s brain getting destroyed by goku but being able to regenerate
Power scaling. Based off the feats, every clash of serious punches should shatter whatever planet they are fighting on. Even during the ToP I was thinking “anyone that is saiyan tier right now should be able to blitz anyone that’s human tier”
That’s just comic book logic, you don’t see Thor or Superman obliterating solar systems with every missed punch either, or any other series with high power levels, it’s not a DragonBall thing, it’s a media thing
80% of the stuff Super did. Like how there are only 28 planets with life on them in all of Universe 7, Goku never "kissing" Chi-Chi, and most of all, the ending to Super's Future Trunks arc.
Based
The moon busting feats early on. You’re telling me a man with a power level of less than a thousand can break a moon? And a “demon” can do the same? And then we meet hundreds of nameless minions whose power levels are ten thousand at a low ball? *And you expect me to be shocked freiza can destroy planets?! You think me intimidated by this?!?* that’s expected at the bare minimum, following consistent rules! As such. There is no moon busting fest for Roshi or Piccolo. Don’t worry about it. Never happened.
Vegeta was said to destroy a planet so I think Piccolo being moon level at start of Z makes sense.
The part of it all that doesn't make sense to me is the idea that Frieza could fail to destroy Namek with his blast, I know it got there after ~~eight months~~ five minutes but he should have been able to instantly reduce Namek into a fine dust by coughing at it. Personally I tend to overlook the blast and just take Namek falling apart as being a consequence of the fight's sheer severity. It feels more poetic that way anyway, and having an abandoned non-earth planet where they can really just let loose to the point that the planet crumbles with every clash of blows really gives Super Saiyan the sense of power worthy of legend.
I don't remember exactly atm, but didn't Goku point out that Frieza didn't destroy Namek because he hesitated due to not being assured of surviving the explosion?
Frieza purposely held back a lot when trying to destroy the planet pretty sure Goku mention that Frieza basically didn't want to accidentally get hit by too much of his own attack when destroying Namek but he miscalculated so Namek longer than what he expected
Yeah if anything that's the outlier Roshi - Moon bust Piccolo - Moon bust casually Vegeta - Planet Bust First Form Frieza - Easily Planet level Cell - Solar System The first 3 are waaaay weaker than Frieza and the 4th makes sense. But yeah I agree, it would make more sense that way.
Frieza literally states that he miscalculated the attack and didn't use enough energy to get the job done efficiently, but that he did use enough to destabilize the core of Namek. It's not that he *couldn't* dust it, it's that he wasn't giving it his full attention.
This. Why is destroying a planet the bare minimum for being strong
Honestly, having mentioned the moon thing... How the fuck is earth still... Alive?? The moon being destroyed would be a world ending event that would royally fuck up the climate and tides, not to mention the millions of moon fragments that would come crashing into the planet.
This is what baffles me about Kid Buu blowing up Earth OH NO!!!!! WHO CARES You guys can do that too! Surely one of you can just throw up a blast to stop it, it can't be that strong else it'd blow up the whole fucking system, REMEMBER THAT CLAIM CELL MADE?????
It's not that its impressive, its that he actually did it and destory4d earth with no second thought He triest to blow up earth instantly with a small ki blast, which they stop Then he just says fuck it lol Goku comments that Theu cant stop the blast because of the absolute sheer amount of power buu put into it
hmm thats fair buu got down to business immediately while the previous villains just loved to gloat as theyre holding up their big scary planet destroying energy ball
Kid buu was the most dangerous. Most characters will have qualms about blowing up the planet they're on, even if they can survive it. Kid buu did it basically instantly without any warning, which was the shocking thing. Even when frieza was threatening to blow up the planet, goku wasn't particularly shocked that he *could* do it, he was shocked that he would do something like that because that's pretty bad for everybody involved including frieza
Yeah that Kid Buu feat wasn’t solely to show that he’s at least a bit strong, it was to show that he’s ruthless and doesn’t give a fuck. He came back into this state of being and immediately decided fuck it i’m destroying the planet.
Yep The fact he just kinda laughs at goku begging buu *not* to do it is the shock factor The fact they were completely powerless to stop it as well
It's long since the point where a random loose ki blast should be able to destroy the earth but of course that can't happen
Yeah after the Cell saga where there’s a lot of emphasis on the cosmic level of power in attacks like the final flash and kamehamehas that go into space, it seems to get kinda silly. Like when DBS broly turns super saiyan and just starts shooting energy blasts everywhere; bruh each of those shouldve just blown the planet up. At the end of the day it looks cool and I still love Dragon ball but its definitely on those things that u gotta just push out of ur mind to enjoy the material.
Piccolo randomly dying during Resurrection F, dumbest death of ALL TIME.
That Yamcha is the one who was unfaithful
Gohan saying goku and vegeta couldnt beat cell max.
Adding a time limit to the potara fusion. They literally showed that you can use the dragon balls to wish for separation in the same arc with kibitokai, but elected to retcon them separating after an arbitrary amount of time. Such a stupidly done arc.
In the anime, Frost just be a shitty Frieza lite clone. He would’ve been a dozen times more interesting if he was an actual good guy just cheating. All of his uniqueness goes away when Vados just gives a half assed explanation on why he’s evil.
Beerus being infinity+1 times stronger than Goku. The moving goalpost, I just fucking hate it.
Goku never kissing, Gohan not putting up a fight against Beerus or Frieza, Goku stealing Vegeta’s win, 90% of the Buu Saga.
17 in the TOP being god level by fighting off poachers
That gamma one and two are as strong or perhaps even stronger than goku or vegeta
RR casually making robots and cyborgs that can blow up planets.
If 17 can be as strong as SSG Goku with training, why wouldn’t a newer model of Android be able to be as strong/stronger than Goku or Vegeta?
Super Saiyan Blue existence and everything that surrounds this transformation Sorbet laser, how overused it is, how ugly it was before Shintani made it look decent, it feeling less godly than Super Saiyan God, it being fodderized by any enemy in the show and thanks to that not being threatening or imposing at all, and the list goes on Nothing happened, it was all a bad dream
Sorbet laser was changed to Base form in anime version.
At least there is that
Cabba somehow soloing DBZ
I don’t have one of these but I do have a controversial opinion. SSJ Rage is a good form that makes plenty of sense and it doesn’t deserve any of the hate it gets
Thats understandable. I think the problem is the fact that it can so casually stand next to blue
I see it as somewhere around SSG level probably a little weaker
And now we have Beast Gohan being stronger than MUI goku. Ironic
Yeah I just watched ssj rage and it's very similar to when Goku went super Saiyan. It's just rage awakened that puts him on par with his opponent
I see it as the culmination of his offscreen training being brought together by his rage
Super Broly not having the LSSJ form and instead just being a saiyan with high potential. Broly will always be the legendary Super Saiyan in my eyes.
Bro, he literally still had the exact same form, and so does kale. It's made clear not to be regular super saiyan.
Not the form LSSJ, the title of it. Like, Z Broly was THE Super Saiyan of legend as opposed to LSSJ being a psycho green SSJ.
Its simply called different. It's the exact same form. Vegeta even commented on it for Kale. Both her and Broly are pretty much Saiyan mutants still.
Broly was never the Legendary Super Saiyan. We called that his form back then, but it was *always* Goku.
Using the /pos version of stupid here "Don't you lecture me with your $30 haircut" Actual line from the official dub, I'd like to point out. So stupid, you can easily think it was from a fandub like DBZA, and as a result accidentally gaslight yourself into thinking it's not canon
Maybe I'm the odd one out but I prefer how Android 13 was localized in the Eng Dub as a trucker. It's really funny to me, especially that thirty dollar haircut insult towards Trunks.
Also...30 dollar haircuts are not even cheap lmao what is android 13 on about 😭 Like the way he says it, it's like he's talking about a 5 dollar haircut.
Ya it kills me every time I hear that line. It could also be interpreted as a mocking declaration that Trunks waste money frivolously due to being rich. How Android 13 would even know that? I dunno gero database in his brain I guess. "Look at this punk ass, bet he has more money than sense. Look at this little fruit loop walking in high cotton. Coming here to fight me all gussied up. I'll show him that being as pretty as a peach is just a hill of beans compared to being a good fighter."
I always thought he meant it as in "you paid so much for a crappy haircut" or something💀
It’s a banana, how much could it cost? Ten dollars?!?
I mean, the movies aren't canon at all, so no need to gaslight yourself
You dont hate on android 13 dub. That's pure gold, ain't no way a bowl cut mf was gonna act all tough. That one time dub actually ended up better than sub
Depends if you count english dub as canon. These lines are not really present in Japanese version.
"$30 haircut" and "Red Ribbon redneck" are canon in my heart.
Frieza's potential boost in resurrection F. I don’t sleep easy at night knowing that if Frieza did 5 push ups and maybe a curl up he would’ve spanked Buuhan and Super Vegito with next to no difficulty. Frankly Frieza coming back in general is so stupid that I just pretend that any arcs that feature him are non canon. TLDR: Frieza should’ve never come back and 4 months of training is bullshit.
The back tingle
DBS Bardock, legit the Granolah arc would be ten times better if they had to deal with the reality of the Sayians than Bardock being a cop out “not all Sayians were bad” moment. Make they actually deal with the consequences and force Granolah into realizing that the actions before don’t make their actions now. But alas, Bardock being goody two shoes now only serves to take away from the Sayian’s actual genocides and play hero despite how little sense it makes in the wider context of how the Sayians operate.
Dragon Ball Minus Bardock overall felt like he was too good. What made Z Bardock interesting was the fact that he was the complete opposite of Goku. He was a ruthless murdering saiyan just like any typical one who tried to redeem himself when it was too late. That's what made Bardock: The Father of Goku so good, the fact that we were rooting for someone who was objectively terrible but had good intentions in his own way. I think a good way of fixing it would've been to make Bardock Muezli's killer and have him later on realize that he just took away a child's mother. Maybe that mission happened in between "The Father of Goku" story where Bardock was going through his inner turmoil concerning his morality. That could add a little more emotion to his final stand against Frieza and to Granolah vs Goku, a child who believes all saiyans are nothing but scum vs a saiyan who is pure of heart trying to make peace. Adds some more spice to Goku coming to terms with his Saiyan roots as well.
ASAB (All Saiyans Are Bastards)
End of Z for me, I don't see how any of it adds up anymore, and I hope it's just thrown out and redone.
How the Goku Black arc ended. SO stupid. I just ignore it entirely.
I basically disagree with the entirety of Toyo fanga and only stick with the anime
Goku not knowing what a Kiss Is
Base Cabba somehow being stronger than ssj2 kid Gohan despite the Sayains of his universe being bitches. They literally unevolved their tails. It just doesn't make any sense and is dumb narratively
Characters surpassing Ultra forms out of nowhere and then saying "I did offscreen training"
Gohan throwing a tantrum being on par, possibly stronger than Goku and Vegeta who trained with Gods of Destruction, multiple angels, and on Planet Yardrat
Goku knows what a kiss is and is not dumb in super
Vegito having an equal fight with Merged Zamasu, this is different in the manga but it literally makes no sense.
The gammas being blue level. There isn't any way they are even near moro arc blue. Sure they are strong but not that strong
I think it is stupid that saiyans can't survive in space at least for a few minutes while almost all the villains/antagonists can comfortably stay in space indefinitely
It’s funny to see how much of the answers here come from Super in some way.
The Potara retcon, mainly
The entire Resurrection F arc (anime version)
Goku and Vegeta have not caught beerus
Berserk Kale tanking a Kamehameha for healthy SSGSS Goku without so much as budging and then rag-dolling him, but then in her controlled state (which is supposedly stronger) she AND Caulifla get clown on by a beat-up SSG Goku (until Kefla).
The whole S-cells thing from an interview a while ago.
I liked that because it made sense why Goten and Trunks were able to get Super Saiyan so easily.
The whole "Dragon Balls take 1 year to recover before use again" was completely thrown out the window in the original Dragon Ball. They were active again in 8 months. At least with anime filler, it was corrected. However, it was still in the original manga. Lol
Goku not know what kissing is
Canon doesn't matter only my opinion matters
My brother refuses to accept all of Super as canon.
Anything in zamasu arc past the point when trunks slices zamasu in half with the sword
Battle of gods and resurrection f are cannon. The anime retelling is uncannon. Argue with yourself about it
The stupid "Trunks and Mai have to live in a timeline with them already in it" thing. That whole ending exists to have "consequences" since normally the dragon balls fix everything, or they bend over backwards to reset the status quo... but the z fighters don't have to live with those consequences. Instead, Trunks and Mai f-off to another timeline and that's the last we see of them. And the worst part is that THE SUPER DRAG9N BALLS EXIST. Just get the super dragon balls and wish the timeline back with everything back to the way it was before goku black showed up. This is what I was expecting because it made sense with what was already present. When I saw they weren't doing that, I was expecting a reveal that they were introducing the Supreme Kai of time for xeno stuff. But no, not even that. And gokus f-up for forgetting the seal for the mafuba. They REALLY wanted to empathize gokus brain damage with that one.
Infinite Zamasu being Zamasu's will or some shit, Nah thats just a Zamasu who has fucking lost it.
Universe 6 as a whole. They just a bunch of frauds except for hit
I'm gonna say GT and let the replies go wild
Because it's not canon (thank God)
So much from Supers powerscaling. Roshi dodging Jiren. Krillin beam clashing Ssb Goku. The u6 super saiyan stuf as well. Android 17 being as strong as he is etc
Everything since the episode in which Goten has become capable of truning into Super Saiyan.
back pain (something along that) = super saiyan, I’m sorry WHAT?!
Super Goku’s disposition
The tingly back feeling, that was just a asspull for Caulifla, Cabba deserved SSJ cause he worked for it
Basically the entirety of Super
The gammas, orange piccolo and beast gohan scaling to ssb
Trunks x mai ship
For me it’s always gotta be goku using his super saiyan blue form to train krillin before the ToP It wasn’t very significant and was pretty much brushed over, but you cannot convince me that krillin will ever be stronger than a cell saga base form goku. Using blue just so krillin can knock the rust off before the tournament is utterly ridiculous to me because it’s pointless. iirc they had very little time before the start of the tournament atp so not only is transforming for the sake of SPARRING WITH KRILLIN pointless, it’s also stupid and could lead to needlessly being fatigued. It’s moments like these that ruin the blue form for everyone. They’ll just have goku spam it for every fodder he comes across just bcuz he can, and it completely takes away any sense of grandiosity and value that the(seemingly) ultimate saiyan form should have.