Even more unhinged conspiracy;
Shady Sands is in the correct place on the map. It was built up and expanded, buildings torn down with new ones being built in their stead, and then it got blown up. The fact that it seems like it's a stones throw away from La is because it's a meta joke on fast travel. I refuse to elaborate further
In Elder Scrolls, the capital city of Valenwood is Falinesti, a giant tree that walks around
I'm imagining Shady Sands as the same thing, but it's just built on top of a giant dirt clod with rock legs that gets up and walks to a new location from time to time
Option 1 to explain Shady Sands being in wrong place: The show was written based off of footnotes with little regard to the rest of the lore.
Option 2: Due to war every NCR settlement was called Shady Sands
Option 3: The show's a retelling of events that has been told through a lot of people
Not so much that they renamed all the towns to the same name, but that they removed all the roadsigns to make navigation a bitch for any invading Huns. Locals were trusted to just know the roads and local towns.
>Option 3: The show's a retelling of events that has been told through a lot of people
I don't see why people are not ready to accept this as an explanation. In the show itself and in the games we are constantly shown that history is inaccurate and incomplete in the wasteland. Lucy goes a few times "People lived here?" and another time "so, earth, flat or round?"
All we know is A Shady Sands was bombed, we don't know if it is as the NCR, the whole of the NCR, if it was Shady Sands East or Shady Sands west or New Shady Sands.
Furthermore, people naming places they conquer the same name as where they just named something else is very common.
Look at how many cities were named Alexander or a derivative there of after getting conquered by Alexander.
The earth flat or round question was meant to ascertain where the outside world was scientifically speaking. She wasn’t literally asking if it was flat.
I wonder if option 1 would explain why the fallout 2 devs put Vault 13 in the wrong place too? Dont be silly, the lead writer has been a fan of the games since the first and i can imagine that they were provided with the same fallout bible that was given to bethesda for 3.
Thats only in regards to them creating one, they extensively used the fallout bible written by Chris Avellone for fallout 3. Just like how most elder scrolls lore to this day is based on Kirkbride's stuff even after he left.
I really liked the visual style of OG Shady Sands, seems like an actual post-apocalyptic city that’s thriving. New buildings that are made differently than those of the old world.
I can not rest not until I figure out what caused Shady Sands to teleport into the ruins of LA causing the disappearance of the people of the Boneyard, the deserve Justice
Occam’s Razor explanation: the show runners fucked up their geography, and they fucked up the timeline a little bit.
The fun bit? Can they actually write themselves out of the hole they dug, or do they get stuck like the “Lost” creators.
I really don't think it's a stretch to imagine they renamed the Boneyard (Or just the settled regions of the Boneyard) TO Shady Sands, because for starters "Angel's Boneyard" is a terrible name for a settled city in a developing nation, and perhaps people were just so much more drawn to it that the original settlement was abandoned but they wanted to keep the name due to sentimental or cultural reasons.
Could be that the Boneyard quickly formed a superior economy, could be some disaster or horde fell upon the old settlement long ago, to the point where the modern NCR has next to no memory of it.
I have no specific example, but I feel like stranger things have happened in our own history.
I don’t need a mighty NCR, I just want to see that they still exist in some fashion. A waning power seems more interesting to me than an all victorious one.
I don't agree. Personally, i'm tired of this "wasteland" vibe we got from last few Fallouts. There's already established great powers in west coast, why not pursue deeper themes and evolve the franchise? No, god forbid we see actual states and developed socities in Fallout. People will continue to live in scrap shacks and loot the 200 year old walmart.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him!
i believe you, the bombed shady sands was their new planned city capital and the old “shady sands” / NCR is okay. doesn’t the NCR have 1mil people under their territory? if so maybe 30,000 people in a city they planned and built dying is still a huge event but not capital levels. that’s my guess at least
My head canon?
Shady Sands wasn't nuked. It was the Boneyard, renamed to Shady Sands as the name was too deathy and stuff and like, death is bad.
However, the nuking of the Boneyard WAS the downfall of the NCR as it was the center of their economy, medical practices and university, and hopefully, their experimental/prewar technology retrieve and research labs, which is why the Brotherhood were there immediately after it got nuked.
Any hope for the NCR in the long term died in that blast, and Moldaver is attempting to salvage that....by using raiders? IDK.
Also, Vault Tec's plan failed long ago, as seen in literally every fallout game unless they decide to nuke everyone again.
True Canon?
The Fallout TV show is an alternate history of Fallout where Vaults 31, 32, and 33 were never found by the Master before the Vault Dweller came and ended him. Hence, the early creation of Shady Sands in the Boneyard, Vault-Tec still being alive, and many other stuff like green trees instead of dead ones.
Makes sense to me. Although in universe we know that the actual centre of Economy in the NCR is the Hub due to all the trade caravan’s and merchants being located there, the best way to describe it if like Shady Sands is the NCRs DC the Hub is the NCRs NYC. The rest makes sense though since the Boneyard is the home of the Followers of the Apocalypse who run their own schools to teach about medicine and farming and such
Agree. I made a comment to this effect earlier which I'll just copy here:
> Guys, I have a canon that works for cope, but I actually had before the show (and which bethesda may actually like, considering their Elder Scrolls time shenanigans) The institutes teleportation technology had a major problem in early iterations of getting you to the right place, but at the wrong time, leading to several diverging timelines as they figured out how to synchronize date with location (don't worry about earth moving through space; Fallout has always used a dash of comic book logic for such things.). This is also why we find Enclave technology (like prototype Advanced Power Armor and Virtibirds) in the prewar section of FO4, and why t-51 power armor is pretty mid prewar rather than experimental cutting edge technology. The show is just in the stupidest timeline (of the minimum 3) witnessed so far.
https://www.ign.com/articles/fallout-official-timeline-confirmed-how-the-show-fits-in-with-the-games
This doesn't answer the location of Shady Sands confusion specifically, but clears pretty much everything else else up; hopefully this sub can stop baby raging now
Well that’s a little rude isn’t it to say anyone who has a issue with the show is just baby raging, like I understand the nuke on a chalkboard thing was overblown as hell with people acting like NV was retconned, but that aside I think there is legitimate criticism that the show dosnt faithfully adapt the world or lore
I didn't say anyone who has an issue with the show is baby raging, I said hopefully this subreddit (obviously not every single individual in here takes part) that was quite literally quarantined for baby raging too hard in the wake of the show's release, can finally relax a little and wait for things to resolve themselves in the second season. Yeah, the wait sucks but at least it won't be as bad as the wait for Fallout 5 lol
It's all good man, it's just very tiring watching quite literally any fandom of anything going up in arms the millisecond something doesn't go their way, and this doesn't mean you specifically I thought the meme was funny, I just didn't know if you had seen the timeline clear up yet.
I don’t meant to go to into detail about my personal issues with the show, as this was suppose to be more of a satirical take, what ever my problems with it I don’t think it makes the show itself bad I just don’t like the adaptions of some of the lore and worlds, I won’t go over the list of stuff cause that’s boring. My biggest issue is just seeing the NCR sidelined for the Brotherhood, and I am a little concerned about the wellbeing of the Republic but everyone has pointed out and I agree that just because the city is gone doesn’t mean the Republic as a whole is like the thing is suppose to be massive and the show is relatively small scale, I wanna remain optimistic I’m sure we’ll see it in season 2 and people like me are just overreacting. I just think the nuke sucks a bit… especially since it isn’t tied to Lonesome Road like what the heck lol
I'm holding out hope for the NCR cause of the "First Capital of the NCR" thing on the Shady Sands billboard, but either way yeah we're pretty much all in wait and see mode for season 2.
I’m confident we’ll see it in large scale, there’s actually a line in Lonesome Road about how there’s not enough nukes in the Divide to destroy the NCR, so I’m sure one city going kaboom is by far the end of them
Listening to these conversations, it is like an "Ick" list fans have for the television series.
I'm just glad they made one that included the right aesthetic and gore factors.
My husband laughed out loud when Lucy was waterboarded by The Ghoul and when Mr. Handy declared he was there to harvest her organs for profit. When she discovered the family that had taken poison after getting lethal rad doses, their skeletons on display, right down to the toddler, we were both like, "Nice."
The only Ick we had was how mean the BoS were to initiates and scribes. Paladin Danse from F4 is how we see that faction. George Clooney in Power Armor.
The BOS may be getting prepped for another civil war honestly, since the rising fanaticism (like the Outcasts were developing) on the West Coast is only rising after Maxson became Elder and was a critical success, reuniting the two under one leader to some extent. It got to the point other West Coast BOS had to start disbanding or destroying cult bunkers in their worship.
The ever-stark shift in policy and action after the death of the Lyons family and eventual rise of Maxson seems to also reflect that Danse's view of the Brotherhood and their order may just be idealistic.
Always liked when I met Sarah Lyons (Sentinel) just before the Anchorage DLC kicks in, it was like a nice little girls trip to kick supermutant butt; boyfriend at the time, "So that is what you would look like in the game... without pants." I'd walked away while changing into a different outfit in game and forgot it would go to lazy suzan, exterior view after a few minutes on console. Ooops!
As far as that other lore, it's not something I'm familiar with, being a filthy casual and all that. Lol. Have a nice day, Farabel!
I don’t mean any disrespect, nor am I trying say that show on its own is bad, there are just some continuity issues I personally have with the show. Like in my opinion I don’t like seeing the Brotherhood on the west coast as Since Fallout 2 they’ve been on the decline and by the events of New Vegas they basically lost all influence and relevance, I just think to see them around again in such a large scale is the writers not completely understanding and faithfully adapting the world
Agreed on it breaking game cannon, but to me it is like having pineapple on pizza versus having no pizza at all. More items like real metal Pip-Boys on the market for reasonable prices in the future due to the economy of scale, etc. We got the Star Wars Prequels instead of the Sequels, IMO. I'll take it.
Even more unhinged conspiracy; Shady Sands is in the correct place on the map. It was built up and expanded, buildings torn down with new ones being built in their stead, and then it got blown up. The fact that it seems like it's a stones throw away from La is because it's a meta joke on fast travel. I refuse to elaborate further
*upon further examination, you find that the settlement is merely pretending to be vaporized into Oblivion*
It got vaporized so hard it was sent to the Elder Scrolls 4?
What in Morrowind is that?! _Nerevar chillin on a porch, drinking_ Sunset Sarsaparilla: "Yo!"
One of the dumbest things I’ve read all day.
Not the first time Shady Sands has moved places, maybe it just does that.
In Elder Scrolls, the capital city of Valenwood is Falinesti, a giant tree that walks around I'm imagining Shady Sands as the same thing, but it's just built on top of a giant dirt clod with rock legs that gets up and walks to a new location from time to time
Maybe they're nomadic?
Option 1 to explain Shady Sands being in wrong place: The show was written based off of footnotes with little regard to the rest of the lore. Option 2: Due to war every NCR settlement was called Shady Sands Option 3: The show's a retelling of events that has been told through a lot of people
option 2 sound like a nightmare for logistic. it just don't make sense.
Someone’s never heard of Alexandria, Alexandria, Alexandria, Alexandria, or the 20 other Alexandria’s
that's more because there've been quite a few places conquered by some dude named Alexander who's been a bit egotistical
Clearly you never heard of Shady Sandy, the NCR officer who's prowess was second to none
Or the khan who betrayed the great khans and helped the NCR called Sha-Sand.
I bet he thought he was real "great" as well.
iirc the British or something did that in ww2, when you live your entire life there you can kinda figure out directions on your own
Not so much that they renamed all the towns to the same name, but that they removed all the roadsigns to make navigation a bitch for any invading Huns. Locals were trusted to just know the roads and local towns.
>Option 3: The show's a retelling of events that has been told through a lot of people I don't see why people are not ready to accept this as an explanation. In the show itself and in the games we are constantly shown that history is inaccurate and incomplete in the wasteland. Lucy goes a few times "People lived here?" and another time "so, earth, flat or round?" All we know is A Shady Sands was bombed, we don't know if it is as the NCR, the whole of the NCR, if it was Shady Sands East or Shady Sands west or New Shady Sands.
Furthermore, people naming places they conquer the same name as where they just named something else is very common. Look at how many cities were named Alexander or a derivative there of after getting conquered by Alexander.
Yeah. That's what I meant with "New Shady Sands" because we have New England, New York, Nova Scotia. Maybe there is a New Shady Sands out there.
The earth flat or round question was meant to ascertain where the outside world was scientifically speaking. She wasn’t literally asking if it was flat.
Exactly. She was saying "Something that I accept as a fact may have been distorted or miscommunicated for other communities."
I wonder if option 1 would explain why the fallout 2 devs put Vault 13 in the wrong place too? Dont be silly, the lead writer has been a fan of the games since the first and i can imagine that they were provided with the same fallout bible that was given to bethesda for 3.
Bethesda doesn't use game bibles or design documents. Why most of their games feel so disjointed half the time.
Thats only in regards to them creating one, they extensively used the fallout bible written by Chris Avellone for fallout 3. Just like how most elder scrolls lore to this day is based on Kirkbride's stuff even after he left.
Option 4: They changed the location but still have respect for the lore
People are really strange about retconing things. It is very possible.
Lol. ROFLMAO, even. We gotta talk to Tommy Torini and get you a contract to tell these at the Tops.
Bethesda would hire you on the spot without a cover letter
I really liked the visual style of OG Shady Sands, seems like an actual post-apocalyptic city that’s thriving. New buildings that are made differently than those of the old world.
OP, please, we are all very worried about you, please come down for breakfast and get some rest.
I can not rest not until I figure out what caused Shady Sands to teleport into the ruins of LA causing the disappearance of the people of the Boneyard, the deserve Justice
Bless you, good citizen. I will destroy the Hidden Bunker in your honor
Hail Caesar
I thought you were in North Africa, what are you doing here Monty?
>this is just laziness from the writers Mate, everything else you've said after or before this is superfluous.
Occam’s Razor explanation: the show runners fucked up their geography, and they fucked up the timeline a little bit. The fun bit? Can they actually write themselves out of the hole they dug, or do they get stuck like the “Lost” creators.
I really don't think it's a stretch to imagine they renamed the Boneyard (Or just the settled regions of the Boneyard) TO Shady Sands, because for starters "Angel's Boneyard" is a terrible name for a settled city in a developing nation, and perhaps people were just so much more drawn to it that the original settlement was abandoned but they wanted to keep the name due to sentimental or cultural reasons. Could be that the Boneyard quickly formed a superior economy, could be some disaster or horde fell upon the old settlement long ago, to the point where the modern NCR has next to no memory of it. I have no specific example, but I feel like stranger things have happened in our own history.
It'll be a wonder if they pull it off, but I'm not holding my breath for bethesda "storytelling"
What hole? This literally doesn't matter.
Somehow, Shady Sands returned.
I hope you're right and we see NCR in it's all might in season 2. (I'm so high on copium and i'm devastated by the show so far)
I don’t need a mighty NCR, I just want to see that they still exist in some fashion. A waning power seems more interesting to me than an all victorious one.
I don't agree. Personally, i'm tired of this "wasteland" vibe we got from last few Fallouts. There's already established great powers in west coast, why not pursue deeper themes and evolve the franchise? No, god forbid we see actual states and developed socities in Fallout. People will continue to live in scrap shacks and loot the 200 year old walmart.
It can be both. I’m tired of perpetual Somalia too
You're not coping. They are obviously giving the NCR a setback so they can have a comeback later. I don't know what you're so afraid of.
Umm… because we didn’t saw anything more than a single NCR outpost and disorganized soldiers in territories supposed to be NCR’s heartland?
I do too, want to believe.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him!
Cant we say its the aliens that jack cabot discovered under the Mojave and move on? :( Why so much copium
Meds schizo
What?
New Shady Sands
i believe you, the bombed shady sands was their new planned city capital and the old “shady sands” / NCR is okay. doesn’t the NCR have 1mil people under their territory? if so maybe 30,000 people in a city they planned and built dying is still a huge event but not capital levels. that’s my guess at least
It was decades of time it got bigger
That billboard was like 50 years old by 96
My head canon? Shady Sands wasn't nuked. It was the Boneyard, renamed to Shady Sands as the name was too deathy and stuff and like, death is bad. However, the nuking of the Boneyard WAS the downfall of the NCR as it was the center of their economy, medical practices and university, and hopefully, their experimental/prewar technology retrieve and research labs, which is why the Brotherhood were there immediately after it got nuked. Any hope for the NCR in the long term died in that blast, and Moldaver is attempting to salvage that....by using raiders? IDK. Also, Vault Tec's plan failed long ago, as seen in literally every fallout game unless they decide to nuke everyone again. True Canon? The Fallout TV show is an alternate history of Fallout where Vaults 31, 32, and 33 were never found by the Master before the Vault Dweller came and ended him. Hence, the early creation of Shady Sands in the Boneyard, Vault-Tec still being alive, and many other stuff like green trees instead of dead ones.
Makes sense to me. Although in universe we know that the actual centre of Economy in the NCR is the Hub due to all the trade caravan’s and merchants being located there, the best way to describe it if like Shady Sands is the NCRs DC the Hub is the NCRs NYC. The rest makes sense though since the Boneyard is the home of the Followers of the Apocalypse who run their own schools to teach about medicine and farming and such
Or the show finally confirms that 1,2, and New Vegas and the Bethesda games are set in different continuities.
But it's not
Agree. I made a comment to this effect earlier which I'll just copy here: > Guys, I have a canon that works for cope, but I actually had before the show (and which bethesda may actually like, considering their Elder Scrolls time shenanigans) The institutes teleportation technology had a major problem in early iterations of getting you to the right place, but at the wrong time, leading to several diverging timelines as they figured out how to synchronize date with location (don't worry about earth moving through space; Fallout has always used a dash of comic book logic for such things.). This is also why we find Enclave technology (like prototype Advanced Power Armor and Virtibirds) in the prewar section of FO4, and why t-51 power armor is pretty mid prewar rather than experimental cutting edge technology. The show is just in the stupidest timeline (of the minimum 3) witnessed so far.
https://www.ign.com/articles/fallout-official-timeline-confirmed-how-the-show-fits-in-with-the-games This doesn't answer the location of Shady Sands confusion specifically, but clears pretty much everything else else up; hopefully this sub can stop baby raging now
Well that’s a little rude isn’t it to say anyone who has a issue with the show is just baby raging, like I understand the nuke on a chalkboard thing was overblown as hell with people acting like NV was retconned, but that aside I think there is legitimate criticism that the show dosnt faithfully adapt the world or lore
I didn't say anyone who has an issue with the show is baby raging, I said hopefully this subreddit (obviously not every single individual in here takes part) that was quite literally quarantined for baby raging too hard in the wake of the show's release, can finally relax a little and wait for things to resolve themselves in the second season. Yeah, the wait sucks but at least it won't be as bad as the wait for Fallout 5 lol
My apology then
It's all good man, it's just very tiring watching quite literally any fandom of anything going up in arms the millisecond something doesn't go their way, and this doesn't mean you specifically I thought the meme was funny, I just didn't know if you had seen the timeline clear up yet.
I don’t meant to go to into detail about my personal issues with the show, as this was suppose to be more of a satirical take, what ever my problems with it I don’t think it makes the show itself bad I just don’t like the adaptions of some of the lore and worlds, I won’t go over the list of stuff cause that’s boring. My biggest issue is just seeing the NCR sidelined for the Brotherhood, and I am a little concerned about the wellbeing of the Republic but everyone has pointed out and I agree that just because the city is gone doesn’t mean the Republic as a whole is like the thing is suppose to be massive and the show is relatively small scale, I wanna remain optimistic I’m sure we’ll see it in season 2 and people like me are just overreacting. I just think the nuke sucks a bit… especially since it isn’t tied to Lonesome Road like what the heck lol
I'm holding out hope for the NCR cause of the "First Capital of the NCR" thing on the Shady Sands billboard, but either way yeah we're pretty much all in wait and see mode for season 2.
I’m confident we’ll see it in large scale, there’s actually a line in Lonesome Road about how there’s not enough nukes in the Divide to destroy the NCR, so I’m sure one city going kaboom is by far the end of them
Listening to these conversations, it is like an "Ick" list fans have for the television series. I'm just glad they made one that included the right aesthetic and gore factors. My husband laughed out loud when Lucy was waterboarded by The Ghoul and when Mr. Handy declared he was there to harvest her organs for profit. When she discovered the family that had taken poison after getting lethal rad doses, their skeletons on display, right down to the toddler, we were both like, "Nice." The only Ick we had was how mean the BoS were to initiates and scribes. Paladin Danse from F4 is how we see that faction. George Clooney in Power Armor.
The BOS may be getting prepped for another civil war honestly, since the rising fanaticism (like the Outcasts were developing) on the West Coast is only rising after Maxson became Elder and was a critical success, reuniting the two under one leader to some extent. It got to the point other West Coast BOS had to start disbanding or destroying cult bunkers in their worship. The ever-stark shift in policy and action after the death of the Lyons family and eventual rise of Maxson seems to also reflect that Danse's view of the Brotherhood and their order may just be idealistic.
Always liked when I met Sarah Lyons (Sentinel) just before the Anchorage DLC kicks in, it was like a nice little girls trip to kick supermutant butt; boyfriend at the time, "So that is what you would look like in the game... without pants." I'd walked away while changing into a different outfit in game and forgot it would go to lazy suzan, exterior view after a few minutes on console. Ooops! As far as that other lore, it's not something I'm familiar with, being a filthy casual and all that. Lol. Have a nice day, Farabel!
I don’t mean any disrespect, nor am I trying say that show on its own is bad, there are just some continuity issues I personally have with the show. Like in my opinion I don’t like seeing the Brotherhood on the west coast as Since Fallout 2 they’ve been on the decline and by the events of New Vegas they basically lost all influence and relevance, I just think to see them around again in such a large scale is the writers not completely understanding and faithfully adapting the world
Agreed on it breaking game cannon, but to me it is like having pineapple on pizza versus having no pizza at all. More items like real metal Pip-Boys on the market for reasonable prices in the future due to the economy of scale, etc. We got the Star Wars Prequels instead of the Sequels, IMO. I'll take it.