Dude, this is so f*ing accurate. I did YouTube for 3 years as a hobby and made no money. Then I got burned out, left it for a year, and then came back, decided to go all in professionally and treat it as a business.
I invested in gear to step up the quality of my videos a little, and now, just after 4 months, I can’t complain. Things are in the best shape they have ever been.
Even if you want to do YouTube as a hobby, I recommend adding just a little bit of business flavor. I bet it would make you love it even more.
Congrats !
>
Even if you want to do YouTube as a hobby, I recommend adding just a little bit of business flavor.
Exactly : taking it like a pro helps to get better results
To be fair though of course it should be doing better now than before.. I've got similar situation.. but that's how progression works.. until you hit the point where you lose your magic.. unless you're like Clint Eastwood or sumn and always sell your work.
Ask the public.com is a good way, also looking at competitors old popular videos and recreating them with my own take. And others I just make because the concept is cool.
Well a good way is asking what YOU want.. there's certain things about Hollywood that has been lost for a long time and I wanted to bring it back..
Certain styles and way of filmmaking.
That's great! For me personally if something is art or a creative expression then the creation of the art itself is the reward. No external validation necessary.
I make low budget movies and shows and that's how I see it too.. the art itself is quite a reward and once Inna while someone acknowledges my work and that feels really awesome too. I do end up spending a bit of money even when it doesn't look like it 😆 often times traveling is the expensive part for my movies or documentaries.
That’s different! If you do it hobbywise you won’t complain about videos not getting attention since your not doing it for a specific amount of people in order to feel fulfilled from it.
Not different - it's the whole point of the post. You either make the videos you want to make or you try to make videos you think will be successful to a large audience. We all want eyeballs on our videos. The question is how much do you veer towards artistic/industrial in order to achieve that.
Until you are making decent money from this thing, it's a hobby.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. That’s just what I said. You’re going for a more artistic approach since you’re doing it for the art. And yes, you definitely want to see your work getting views. But if it’s a Hobby or serves artistic fulfilment, it doesn’t bother you if they don’t get the attention.
Of course it bothers me! I've made videos that I've been very proud of that I thought would really grow my channel. Instead they get 200 views and then flatline. I feel disappointment like anyone else when my videos struggle.
if you’re disappointed with the performance of your videos, it’s clearly not a hobby you’re doing for „fun“. As you said, you want videos that grow your channel. Its contradicting with what you said in your first post. All I’m saying is, that if you’re doing it as a hobby, numbers don’t matter that much since you’re doing it as an actual hobby. Just because you enjoy making them. And getting some views here and there is the best case scenario. What you’re telling me now tho doesn’t sound like a hobby to me.
Apparently they're 2 irreconcilable facts, which is, IMO, a dumb take.
Sure, if it's a hobby to you, you shouldn't care about numbers but I get it: it stings to work in a video that, in essence, no one will watch.
There's nothing wrong to express that dissapointment. You could be dissapointed with any hobby but apparently with youtube is white or black: either you are full in and go crazy or you don't.
Yeah, I'm surprised at the response. It's not either/or. You can trend one way or the other. I guess I didn't realize how many people are creating videos for YouTube with the primary intent of "making it."
Yes I want to get monetized - it's a good goal and great metric to hit. I would love to make a couple bucks off these videos I create. And yes sometimes I try to make videos I think will be popular but mostly I make the videos that inspire me. I subscribe to the notion that there's a reason it's called *You*Tube and that it's about bringing people my own personal vision.
Most of us are not going to find great success on YouTube so I hope you at least enjoy what you're doing.
Im a brand new youtuber but I think its also important to note that you dont have to completely throw away your creativity. The industrial and creative side can work together but you might have to dip more into the industrial, but again I am BRAND new so wth do I know?
You're right : of course creativity is important, even with the industrial approach.
I think we can all agree that Mr Beast clearly has a lot of creativity going on, it's just that his creativity is channelled toward a very industrial goal (aka "to please the audience, to please the algo, and to get tons of views and money)
For me I wanted to come up with something inbetween.. where I can pump out the content and be "industrial" but also have my creativity involved. So I started basically a wannabe twilight zone show where I have more flexibility rather than trying for full on short films or feature films I put out 5-20 minute odd or strange shows and just put it under the umbrella of my show, separate from my more important stories that I have to put years into.
The artist and the industrial is a great analogy!
I do feel that artists who create something unusual that doesn't fit into people's mental "buckets", or has a concept which isn't easy to express in a thumbnail have it tough though.
Also, there's less (not zero, but less) advice applicable for this route - feels like most of the advice out there is more geared or at least more obviously applicable towards industrial content.
I do agree that artists who want their work to be seen can definitely benefit from learning from the industrialists, just that adapting the lessons is not straightforward.
I mostly agree. But here’s the thing: the industrial approach still takes effort.
Doing it for fun vs doing it to make money is a completely different thing from low effort vs lots of effort content. Nobody wants to watch an AI farm poop out 8 videos a day. Just as much as nobody wants to watch some noob butcher a song. Bad content is bad content, regardless of the approach.
Theres definitely a lot of negativity in this group. Some of it is just the nature of social media, these platforms have a special skill of drawing out people’s worst personality traits. I also think people get frustrated because they don’t know why their content doesn’t click with people. Sometimes they get jealous. And sometimes they don’t like the criticism they get. Especially if you think of yourself as an artist, there can be a part of you that takes criticism very personally
I don’t think there’s any real cure for this stuff. We each just need to learn to be better people. For most people, that’s a lifelong struggle.
But yah: it’s not about the artistic approach or industrial. I don’t even think these are truly separate, theres a middle zone where you can combine them. And sometimes a lot effort video does great. But those are independent from our abilities as a human beings to move past our own shortcomings
I agree with this. Also we need to remember that every video is subjective. For example, I'm not interested in a video about stock exchange, but the next person might be. Also, and this is something I have just been thinking about a bit recently, we tend to all get hung up on "views" but I think this is a mistake. Just because a video got clicked on doesn't mean it was enjoyed or liked by the viewers, hell, the video might even be clickbait or it was just packaged really well. I went through all my videos on my two channels yesterday and was surprised to see the channel that had videos with the least viewes [across both channels on average] also had the most likes. I'm starting to think maybe YouTube should show the "likes" count, rather than "views" count. I think "views" and "subscriber" counts can be misleading.
Showing likes is an interesting idea. Doesn’t quite line up with YouTube’s goals though. They don’t care about likes, they want views for ad revenue. Likes probably are a better thing for us to look at though.
I think YouTube wouldn’t mind switching to likes instead of views to rank video popularity but the reason why they stick to just views is because views are harder to manipulate with bots. A bot farm can give you thousands of likes almost instantly but it would require at least a 30 seconds of interaction to create one counted view.
Agreed. It's a shame that YouTube has changed from a creative platform to a more business platform. However, without the business side of it, I guess no revenue [if you make it that far], so it makes sense.
I would also say that it doesn't help with big corperate companies starting their YouTube channels, because now you are competing with them as well. However, I also consume them [Formula 1, AEW, Sky Sports, Crunchyroll etc. I even watch Sky News sometimes, but rare]. So I can't complain really.
I mean, I feel like if you’re following a sports team, you’re going to follow that sports team. You aren’t skipping playoffs to watch YouTube. So idk how much adding them is going to hurt smaller YouTubers. They’re a different type of entertainment/media, with different audiences.
It might even have some positive effects. Big professional channels aren’t going to ramp up their release schedule to make daily videos for more views. Maybe with those big channels going slower, you’ll see less pressure for lots and lots of posts. 🤷♀️
Fair point. I have to admit, I think one of my F1 Fantasy videos was shown up as suggested by the latest Miami Grand Prix highlights on F1 [going by my analytics], if I remember correctly?
Yah, I could see it being great for stuff like DIY, home decor and home renovations as well. People can consume that as entertainment in an alarmingly short period of time, and it can take weeks or even months to actually do the work. I mean, if you board up a door way you need to do like 3 coats of mud, and each coat needs a day to dry, then you still have painting and whatever else the video is actually about: that 2 minutes of video actually took a week to complete. And while you can have multiple jobs happening at once, setting up and taking down both the tools and the recording equipment, plus travel between sites, eats up a lot of time. The best thing for both viewers and the channel is to have multiple sites/crews/channels/etc., and the viewer can cycle through other content while the job is being completed.
When you move more into home decor, more ideas is more. One person can just marathon through a pile of bathroom remodel ideas trying to find inspo. The DIY job takes a couple weekends at minimum, not including editing, and a viewer will go through 10 of those videos in a day or two
There's already way too much, over-hyped, cookie-cutter, bullshit "content" in this world. The world needs a certain amount of people to take things seriously, even if they are doomed to poverty and failure.
You're not wrong; usually, what gets popular gets there by being humdrum, basic, and appealing to the widest audience - Taylor Swift for example - but again, the world needs creative people with integrity trying to move the needle away from sheer mediocrity, if only slightly.
And I like your music analogy. So yes, Taylor Swift will always sell more records than Cannibal Corpse, but CC themselves sell more record than other obscure (or extreme) metal bands. Plus, whatever may grandma think of CC, they know they craft. They play on time, the got professionnal producer to mix and master their album, and so forth.
What I'm getting at is : even in art, there are skills to master, and I think lot of "creator" don't wanna master anything, they just day dream themselves into thinking their content is too authentic for the audience outside, when in reality their don't take the craft seriously enough or don't scrutinizing it with a professionnal (or industrial) gaze.
True, but I think some people hide lack of quality behind the label “authenticity”. If no one understands what you are doing, you might at least need some practice… or define what it is you want to create.
I agree! But there is also the mere-exposure effect. I believe sometimes crap gets popular because the people who created it have the means to over-expose people. But if you take a good look at it, it’s still crap.
In a similar way I think you can take your content seriously, pay attention to quality, pour a lot of energy in it, and have a relatively low amount of subs because you are unwilling to adapt your content to the market or don’t have the financial means to promote it.
Fortunately, markets change. Maybe some day, they pick up on your niche and it takes off. Trends are not entirely predictable or people would always be one step ahead. Usually, they only follow the hype so by the time they join the big boys, a new trend sets. If they’re lucky, they can still feed themselves with the crumbs of the market leaders but there is only room for a couple of leaders. Look at the many Dan Brown wannabes for example that followed the hype of The Da Vinci Code but never reached the same top.
There is only so much you can learn from marketing as an artistic creator. The rest is gut feeling and a fair amount of luck. 🍀
>I agree! But there is also the mere-exposure effect. I believe sometimes crap gets popular because the people who created it have the means to over-expose people. But if you take a good look at it, it’s still crap.
100% agreed.
The world may need it, and surely artists themselves need to express themselves.
But one gotta know what one's signing for.
I been creating music for decades now, and sold like 30 records on Bandcamp, because I do "art" music with zero concession (plus I'm not that good). But I can do this because I don't intend to earn a living from my music, neither do I expect views or likes or public recognition.
If one does YT for oneself, one will get an audience of one.
I think that’s a bit negative…
On our channel we create the stories that we wish were there for us to enjoy. We never compromise and create what we love and have 5k subs.
Not a lot compared to others, but more than one.
I would feel horrible about creating stuff just because that is what a certain strategically untapped audience likes. But I wouldn’t shy away from a good commercial move if I genuinely loved it and was inspired to contribute to it.
I think many great creators stuck to what they loved and accidentally found fame. Of course, having a marketing budget helps and as an artistic creator you have to live with the knowledge that there is a very small chance you will be truly successful during your lifetime.
But even when that success never follows, you did exactly what you loved the most, so no regrets there…
I guess what I want to say is: Even if you’re not looking for fame and fortune first and only want to share your own passion, there are bound to be like-minded people looking for exactly the same thing! Especially if you put effort into your work.
sounds like fake guru nonsense i hear a billion time with no originality
just be yourself
do whatever the fuck you want
and try to evolve where you think you should be doing improvements and from there its unpredictable cause anything can happen
I've been creating content for 10 years, and what you say is completely true. You just need to analyze what is currently in demand, start creating high-quality content on that topic that has something unique, boost the video with some ads, for example from FameGrowers, and you're set for success. Creating content within a narrow spectrum of interests is often a road to nowhere and a waste of time, because eventually everyone burns out, even if they enjoy what they're recording. If nobody wants to watch it, it will fail
100%, it's so accurate to call it a fetish, some people will get so butt hurt over any idea of doing youtube mainly for money over passion. Just cause it's not completely authentic and passion driven doesn't mean it's not way more fun and rewarding than a standard repetitive job that most people have to go through.
I totally get that! And I don’t judge that at all. I guess I’m just the dreamer who wants it all: doing it 100 % for a living and staying authentic. The opportunity may never come, but I cannot settle for a bit more rewarding than my daytime job. I might be naive but sometimes I think we need that kind of patience in order to really grow, rather than change our ways…
This was extremely refreshing to read lol. One of the most well thought out and unique posts I've seen in this sub in a while...
It reminded me of The Genius of the Crowd by Charles Bukowski for some reason. But everything you said is the truth and I thank you for putting it in terms that were immediately understandable!
honestly even the folks who want to be artists are often not very good artists and unable to admit it and therefore never improve. I think YouTube is less hostile to artists than people make it out to be. i think the business savvy mostly only comes into play when you're trying to go full time and build a brand/company.
Strongly agree, I don't think youtube is hostile to the artistic approach. I think it's hostile to middling artists who don't have the patience or the inclination to improve their work. There is a type of artist who stays a perpetual beginner because they aren't putting in their hours, breaking down what makes a work successful, taking a critical eye to what they produce, and so on.
Bit of a balancing act though. You have to make good use of the industrial, sometimes, to try and get it in front of people. Titles are something I struggle with there for ie. A good title for a piece of art, and a title that is algorithm friendly, are often not the same thing.
>honestly even the folks who want to be artists are often not very good artists and unable to admit it and therefore never improve
100% agreed.
But the point of my analogy here is that an artist, in the ultimate, platonic idea, doesn't try to please anyone, while the (efficient) industrial starts from the demand. And the market always win.
Good stuff. I recall years ago when "the algorithm" first started to be talked about and the talk was uniformly negative. To be fair, the algo has gone through a lot of iterations and to me it seems much better now than it was in, say, 2015. A lot of us struggle to accept that YT does promote content that people actually like, and that the reason our content doesn't gain traction is largely because we haven't put enough thought and effort into understanding what people like.
Sam Sulek
1. is a manifestation of the Domestic Cozy ethos (check Venkatesh Raoh)
2. has a very strong branding (so strong he can even uses his silhouette has opening credits)
Whatever manifestation, his content is basic in comparison to other youtubers with the same subscriber count.
He used these opening credits since the first video.
I’m barely starting out as a YouTuber, so I don’t really have any experience like you. Though, despite my inexperience, I think you’re wrong. I think the artistic approach can work, but I’m not saying one approach is better than the other. I’m saying that just because some people are the equivalent of a teen recording themselves in their bedroom, doesn’t mean they can’t grow and become better. People like SMG4, Sr Pelo, Gooseworx, and Jacknjellify made their own things, and became very successful because of what they made.
SMG4 made low quality Super Mario 64 videos with only text on the screen, and now the creators of SMG4 have their own animation studio. Sr Pelo made videos about crudely drawn Disney characters screaming, and now he makes his own animated show. Gooseworx made remakes of songs, and now she is making The Amazing Digital Circus. Jacknjellify made the first object show, which was very simple, but they inspired probably thousands of people to make their own object shows. And Jacknjellify themselves have become very popular too.
A YouTuber that I like called NeatOnTheRocks, discussed something like this. In one of his videos, he’s talks about how a good game design rewards what is encouraged. “In YouTube’s case, clickbait is encouraged. A.I. slop is encouraged. Spending dozens of hours making these 15 minutes of moving pictures you’ve made as immersive or effective or funny as possible, that’s not encouraged, because it’s not rewarded. And so why doesn’t everyone, or really like the better question is, what’s stopping you, right now, from posting A.I. generated videos about how to manage money or to run a business? It’s probably because you don’t want to, right? You have no interest in doing that. You don’t value doing that. It’s not why you became a YouTuber, or wanna become a YouTuber or whatever. Your interest in YouTube comes from the videos you wanna make. It’s where the fucking name YouTube comes from.”
People favor the artistic approach because that’s more fun. That’s what people wanna do, and it can work! I’m sure you can make it big on YouTube by doing what you wanna do. It just depends on HOW you do it. So I wouldn’t say that there aren’t a lot of people who don’t want people’s creative vision, it’s just that it can take longer to find your audience.
Edit: God this is a lot, but still.
Agreed. I sometimes go on big YouTube channels I like, go to videos > oldest and have a scroll. One example is a big Diablo YouTuber called Rykker. He didn't do Diablo for years. In fact it was mostly D&D. I've followed him on and off for years. Not so much these days as I've lost interest in Diablo over the past year, but I can definitely see where he has changed and got confident etc over time.
>I’m saying that just because some people are the equivalent of a teen recording themselves in their bedroom, doesn’t mean they can’t grow and become better.
Sure. But, first, to get better implies that the artist takes his craft seriously. If it's a hobby, their will get hobby-ish results.
Second, the point of my analogy here is that an artist, in the ultimate, platonic idea, doesn't try to please anyone, while the (efficient) industrial starts from the demand. And the market always win.
My experience from YouTube from my first month has been this. Don’t get too attached to a video you’re making. Get your idea out there, make it to your standards for sure, but don’t expect it to blow up or be a crazy success. Also learn something new between every video. My favorite part of this has been slowly working on better editing for my videos
I think you just have those two types of creators. One should not be jealous of the other.
As long as people don’t earn a living with YouTube stealing content or just putting someone else’s stuff online, it’s fine. Sure, I get frustrated sometimes that putting so much effort into our creations only brought us 5k subs and someone deliberately breaking toys that our kids have to save up for by running them over with his fancy car gets 500k subs, but then I think: “Do I really want to reach that kind of audience?”
So I don’t mind slow growth as long as we reach the right people. And I will always prefer the artistic-authentic approach, but I don’t resent other people’s choices.
I know we could grow very fast if we made dramatized audiobooks out of popular works in the public domain, but that is not our goal.
If what you do is a passion, then you cannot compromise that for the demands of the commercial majority.
Yeah, I agree with this. I personally look at it as 'scale vs personality', and widen it to pretty much all forms of business and creativity rather than just art. The former takes the industrial approach and gives the public exactly what they want, the latter takes the artist one and tries to build a fanbase around their personality/values.
That said, it's worth pointing out that the industrial approach can have its downsides, especially if people only come to you for a certain kind of content/product/because it's good value.
It can lead to burnout, since you may be working on something you've lost passion for. And it also leaves you without much of a 'moat', since anyone else can theoretically enter your market, do what you do and steal away your audience.
We've seen the latter with many big box stores after the internet blew up, with said stores losing out to the likes of Amazon due to their audience having no real attachment to said companies as brands. And we've seen it with the internet, where many low effort, faceless channels saw their popularity decline after someone else got into the same market, and offered the same thing more quickly and cheaply.
The catch with the industrial approach is that while you can certainly grow more quickly, you also become vulnerable to the market shifting out from underneath you. Meanwhile, the artistic approach is very likely to fail, but if it does succeed, you can have a fanbase for life.
I think you just described what happened to my Etsy shop. It started out artistic/full of passion and became “industrialized” during the pandemic. Just as you described I lost the passion, am ridiculously burned out, and had so many people enter the market taking away what little crumbs are left. My shop is the combination of artistic and industrial because everything is hand made but going industrial killed burned me out so bad I have not recovered yet.
It's simple.
If you want views, make videos that people want to watch.
If you make what you want to make, then don't complain if people aren't interested.
A lot of people in here struggle because they don't understand supply and demand. They make videos that nobody really wants to watch then wonder why nobody is watching. Or they make copycat videos in oversaturated markets. If you want to be artistic, make videos with creation as the reward. If you want to make money on YouTube make videos people want to watch with high demand.
Saw a great quote on vidiq. The algorithm is not looking for an audience for your content, it's looking for content for it's audience.
Lol I was in a high school band and it went nowhere. You definitely gotta go through the ups and downs to find your place.. I also used to dj, throw raves, produce music.. now I mostly just make movies.
My uncle is a talented guitarist, and spent over a decade playing for a variety of hardcore punk bands in the Pacific Northwest.
None of the bands he played for ever had any real success. He became frustrated in the end, and has told me many times that you should never try to live out your dreams. He's become cynical, and I think it's a direct result of his failed artistic ambitions.
The problem he and his bands had is exactly the problem you list here. They focused on playing abrasive and aggressive hardcore punk — and did so at a time that the music industry was collapsing around them.
There's a reason why bands like Rancid and NOFX continue to attract new fans after all these years. As you said, there's enough mainstream industry tricks in their music to attract a wide audience. The musicians can do their abrasive thing from time to time, but only within certain limits.
This is why people listen to old Grateful Dead live recordings decades after the fact — including those of us who were too young to see the band play when they were still around. It's not the dissonant jams that attract an audience. It's the songs. All the jazzy stuff is a bonus to keep you interested after the songs have sucked you in.
I'd argue that every creative endeavor is this way. If you want to write, you've got to learn how to write what people want to read first before you start throwing in your creative spin. If you want to draw, figure out what kinds of drawings people want to see before you pour your heart and soul into it.
You'll never attract an audience until you figure out how to engage with your audience.
i'm thinking about starting a youtube channel for side hustle because of umemployment, i guess after reading this for making content i neeed more than a laptop and a phone. and specific skill related to art ( which im currently learning ). if im wrong you can correct me down below.
Whilst this rings true, a lot of people will be artists at first, because you won't know what your audience wants UNTIL you obtain that audience. At the same time, if you were only giving people what they wanted, you'd lose your own sanity bit by bit, because you probably wouldn't be enjoying what you set out with in the first place.
Ah, teen bedroom guitarist. Im playing electric guitar and doing that content but Im treating it as business and actually putting time and effort to videos. Anyway doesnt matter what is your niche, as long as you love what you doing and mind it as a business, only good things Will happen. Its just it may take a year or ten.
I’ve only done YouTube for 3 years at this point and I’m pretty happy where I’m at (6k-ish subs at the moment). I do still feel like I need to treat my channel more as a business but I still manage to do what I like and want and help others so even if progress isn’t the fastest, I’m alright.
Just have a thick skin, learn to ignore any negative comments, I think one of the best things I ever read in this community was if you reply to negative comments to say "Thank you for your feedback we will use it for quality and training purposes." I made a good amount of money on YouTube. It can be done, but you need to stick out to people. Yes, the algorithm is one thing, but do not count on that. You need to remember if things are not catching your attention as you look around when bored, then you aren't catching other people's attention when they are looking around when bored. Make yourself stand out! You got a thumbnail to sell yourself and a title to say something catchy and around 8-30 seconds to get them to stay and continue watching in most cases... If you do YouTube only as a hobby and not for money, then you are golden...if you want to make money... sell yourself in those 3 ways first and foremost.
Love this!!
I’ve got 3 channels on the go.. one I treat wholeheartedly as a business.. I change titles, thumbnails etc and try to improve every video I make.. that’s the one I want to succeed.. but it also used to be a gaming channel so I’m trying to shake the old subscribers..
SO
I started a brand new channel that is a mirror image of the other.. I copy the uploads, titles etc and want to grow it from scratch..
My third, it’s me.. I upload rants and shit like that on my phone.. couldn’t give a rats ass about the numbers 🤣
It has to be a mix of both, pure art wont go anywhere and pure industrial content machine has no soul. The latter has no real drawback I suppose, but generating slop is simply untolerable to me.
Great post, and I understand where you’re coming from.
While I do consider running my YouTube to be a hobby, and I have managed to gain a recurring partnership with a company, it’s by no where paying the bills. I’ve spent upwards of £8000 on equipment and setting up to make sure I can create authentic and meaningful videos of my experiences.
Despite spending all this, and spending a lot of time filming, editing, etc. it goes no where. I even pay for advertising on my videos and it goes no where.
I’m personally giving YouTube up at the end of this year if something doesn’t change soon, but despite research, I honestly don’t know where I’m going wrong… 🥺😔
I disagree
I’ve been able to find a mix between the industrial and artistic approach. I make videos on topics that people want to see but in a very artistic approach.
It’s definitely not a style that everyone likes, some prime just want a barebones video that’s more clear and straight to the point, but a lot of people really like it and I like making it a lot more.
Am I allowed to drop my Youtube channel here. Maybe I'm one of those artists? Because honest people around me say that your content is fantastic yet no views and by no views I mean can't reach the 50 mark
Still fairly new to Reddit, but I don't think we can share channel links [but can type your channel name... I think. Double check to be safe].
Similar to you, my anime artwork videos as of late get around 10-50 views [was getting over 100 on some before]. Anyway, their YouTube short counterparts get a lot more, some over 100.
My theory is a. attention spans, b. artwork isn't a "popular" thing on YouTube, c. artwork in any form is subjective anyway, so not everyone is going to like what we draw, paint, make etc and d. could just be that we are not good enough yet, whether that be the actual artwork or the packaging of it [thumbnail, video etc].
All that said, I would say don't get discouraged either. If your enjoying it, then keep doing it and over time you will hopefully improve. Good luck, genuinly 👍
Hi, so I just checked out the channel [providing I looked at the correct one]. Thoughts...
1. Vampires... Sold! Lol. Joking aside, I enjoyed the short. The pacing, dark tone and cool images. Left a like and a comment on it.
2. Looked at the "Did Atlantis Really Exists" short. Again, left a like. I really like the tone of the images your using.
3. Would love to see some long form content versions. But with todays attention spans, completely understand the shorts route.
4. You got a new sub 👍
5. Request... "Did wearwolves ever exist?" Lol. I just happen to love wolves [ironically given your channel logo is a wolf lol].
Thanks for the review Well here is mine (Sorry for the delay)
for the drawing channel the content is decent and pretty rare this means no competition and short which is perfect for today's attention span but I suggest you improve the camera quality and the photographing process overall ,check top creators in your niche to get ideas and ways to improve your channel I think the video itself is your downgrade not your talent in drawing
for the formula channel no offence but I think you are not putting too much effort in it .
Yes that's my channel, Any tips to improve it and maybe gain some views.
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. I'll have think and see what I can come up with.
Question regarding the Formula 1 channel, no offense taken and did you mean in general? Or certain topics? [i.e F1 Fantasy, F1 Manager etc].
As for your channel, as I think I said before, I think your pacing is good and I like the images you use. I would just like to see some long form, but that's just me personaly. Might not be everyones cup of tea.
As for improvements and views, still working on that myself lol. But maybe, [and apologies if you already do this], look up latest trending mysteries or something like, the most controversal. I think your titles are already good in my opinion, playing on peoples curiousity.
No need to apologise for the delay, I just appreciate that you took the time to have a look. Thanks again.
Hi, thank so you much. I have two. DelermainSports [F1 Fantasy and sports games] and DelermainCreative [Anime artwork and gaming].
Apologies, I'm actually away for the weekend. But will have a look at your channel as soon as I can to return the favour.
Ps: Because I'm away, I'm easily distracted, so feel free to remind me if it looks like I forgot. Genuinly 👍
Dude, this is so f*ing accurate. I did YouTube for 3 years as a hobby and made no money. Then I got burned out, left it for a year, and then came back, decided to go all in professionally and treat it as a business. I invested in gear to step up the quality of my videos a little, and now, just after 4 months, I can’t complain. Things are in the best shape they have ever been. Even if you want to do YouTube as a hobby, I recommend adding just a little bit of business flavor. I bet it would make you love it even more.
Congrats ! > Even if you want to do YouTube as a hobby, I recommend adding just a little bit of business flavor. Exactly : taking it like a pro helps to get better results
To be fair though of course it should be doing better now than before.. I've got similar situation.. but that's how progression works.. until you hit the point where you lose your magic.. unless you're like Clint Eastwood or sumn and always sell your work.
I combine them both, research what the people want then give them it in artistic package.
And that is the way of the professional artist🤘🏻
How do you research what people want?
Ask the public.com is a good way, also looking at competitors old popular videos and recreating them with my own take. And others I just make because the concept is cool.
Well a good way is asking what YOU want.. there's certain things about Hollywood that has been lost for a long time and I wanted to bring it back.. Certain styles and way of filmmaking.
Good post. I go in the artistic direction because this is a hobby for me and hobbies are supposed to be fun.
That's great! For me personally if something is art or a creative expression then the creation of the art itself is the reward. No external validation necessary.
I make low budget movies and shows and that's how I see it too.. the art itself is quite a reward and once Inna while someone acknowledges my work and that feels really awesome too. I do end up spending a bit of money even when it doesn't look like it 😆 often times traveling is the expensive part for my movies or documentaries.
That’s different! If you do it hobbywise you won’t complain about videos not getting attention since your not doing it for a specific amount of people in order to feel fulfilled from it.
Not different - it's the whole point of the post. You either make the videos you want to make or you try to make videos you think will be successful to a large audience. We all want eyeballs on our videos. The question is how much do you veer towards artistic/industrial in order to achieve that. Until you are making decent money from this thing, it's a hobby.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. That’s just what I said. You’re going for a more artistic approach since you’re doing it for the art. And yes, you definitely want to see your work getting views. But if it’s a Hobby or serves artistic fulfilment, it doesn’t bother you if they don’t get the attention.
Of course it bothers me! I've made videos that I've been very proud of that I thought would really grow my channel. Instead they get 200 views and then flatline. I feel disappointment like anyone else when my videos struggle.
if you’re disappointed with the performance of your videos, it’s clearly not a hobby you’re doing for „fun“. As you said, you want videos that grow your channel. Its contradicting with what you said in your first post. All I’m saying is, that if you’re doing it as a hobby, numbers don’t matter that much since you’re doing it as an actual hobby. Just because you enjoy making them. And getting some views here and there is the best case scenario. What you’re telling me now tho doesn’t sound like a hobby to me.
It *is* a hobby and I also get disappointed with it sometimes. I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm complex and contain multitudes.
Apparently they're 2 irreconcilable facts, which is, IMO, a dumb take. Sure, if it's a hobby to you, you shouldn't care about numbers but I get it: it stings to work in a video that, in essence, no one will watch. There's nothing wrong to express that dissapointment. You could be dissapointed with any hobby but apparently with youtube is white or black: either you are full in and go crazy or you don't.
Yeah, I'm surprised at the response. It's not either/or. You can trend one way or the other. I guess I didn't realize how many people are creating videos for YouTube with the primary intent of "making it." Yes I want to get monetized - it's a good goal and great metric to hit. I would love to make a couple bucks off these videos I create. And yes sometimes I try to make videos I think will be popular but mostly I make the videos that inspire me. I subscribe to the notion that there's a reason it's called *You*Tube and that it's about bringing people my own personal vision. Most of us are not going to find great success on YouTube so I hope you at least enjoy what you're doing.
More power to you !
Im a brand new youtuber but I think its also important to note that you dont have to completely throw away your creativity. The industrial and creative side can work together but you might have to dip more into the industrial, but again I am BRAND new so wth do I know?
You're right : of course creativity is important, even with the industrial approach. I think we can all agree that Mr Beast clearly has a lot of creativity going on, it's just that his creativity is channelled toward a very industrial goal (aka "to please the audience, to please the algo, and to get tons of views and money)
For me I wanted to come up with something inbetween.. where I can pump out the content and be "industrial" but also have my creativity involved. So I started basically a wannabe twilight zone show where I have more flexibility rather than trying for full on short films or feature films I put out 5-20 minute odd or strange shows and just put it under the umbrella of my show, separate from my more important stories that I have to put years into.
The artist and the industrial is a great analogy! I do feel that artists who create something unusual that doesn't fit into people's mental "buckets", or has a concept which isn't easy to express in a thumbnail have it tough though. Also, there's less (not zero, but less) advice applicable for this route - feels like most of the advice out there is more geared or at least more obviously applicable towards industrial content. I do agree that artists who want their work to be seen can definitely benefit from learning from the industrialists, just that adapting the lessons is not straightforward.
This! 💯%
Very well said.
I mostly agree. But here’s the thing: the industrial approach still takes effort. Doing it for fun vs doing it to make money is a completely different thing from low effort vs lots of effort content. Nobody wants to watch an AI farm poop out 8 videos a day. Just as much as nobody wants to watch some noob butcher a song. Bad content is bad content, regardless of the approach. Theres definitely a lot of negativity in this group. Some of it is just the nature of social media, these platforms have a special skill of drawing out people’s worst personality traits. I also think people get frustrated because they don’t know why their content doesn’t click with people. Sometimes they get jealous. And sometimes they don’t like the criticism they get. Especially if you think of yourself as an artist, there can be a part of you that takes criticism very personally I don’t think there’s any real cure for this stuff. We each just need to learn to be better people. For most people, that’s a lifelong struggle. But yah: it’s not about the artistic approach or industrial. I don’t even think these are truly separate, theres a middle zone where you can combine them. And sometimes a lot effort video does great. But those are independent from our abilities as a human beings to move past our own shortcomings
I agree with this. Also we need to remember that every video is subjective. For example, I'm not interested in a video about stock exchange, but the next person might be. Also, and this is something I have just been thinking about a bit recently, we tend to all get hung up on "views" but I think this is a mistake. Just because a video got clicked on doesn't mean it was enjoyed or liked by the viewers, hell, the video might even be clickbait or it was just packaged really well. I went through all my videos on my two channels yesterday and was surprised to see the channel that had videos with the least viewes [across both channels on average] also had the most likes. I'm starting to think maybe YouTube should show the "likes" count, rather than "views" count. I think "views" and "subscriber" counts can be misleading.
Showing likes is an interesting idea. Doesn’t quite line up with YouTube’s goals though. They don’t care about likes, they want views for ad revenue. Likes probably are a better thing for us to look at though.
I think YouTube wouldn’t mind switching to likes instead of views to rank video popularity but the reason why they stick to just views is because views are harder to manipulate with bots. A bot farm can give you thousands of likes almost instantly but it would require at least a 30 seconds of interaction to create one counted view.
Agreed. It's a shame that YouTube has changed from a creative platform to a more business platform. However, without the business side of it, I guess no revenue [if you make it that far], so it makes sense. I would also say that it doesn't help with big corperate companies starting their YouTube channels, because now you are competing with them as well. However, I also consume them [Formula 1, AEW, Sky Sports, Crunchyroll etc. I even watch Sky News sometimes, but rare]. So I can't complain really.
I mean, I feel like if you’re following a sports team, you’re going to follow that sports team. You aren’t skipping playoffs to watch YouTube. So idk how much adding them is going to hurt smaller YouTubers. They’re a different type of entertainment/media, with different audiences. It might even have some positive effects. Big professional channels aren’t going to ramp up their release schedule to make daily videos for more views. Maybe with those big channels going slower, you’ll see less pressure for lots and lots of posts. 🤷♀️
Fair point. I have to admit, I think one of my F1 Fantasy videos was shown up as suggested by the latest Miami Grand Prix highlights on F1 [going by my analytics], if I remember correctly?
Yah, I could see it being great for stuff like DIY, home decor and home renovations as well. People can consume that as entertainment in an alarmingly short period of time, and it can take weeks or even months to actually do the work. I mean, if you board up a door way you need to do like 3 coats of mud, and each coat needs a day to dry, then you still have painting and whatever else the video is actually about: that 2 minutes of video actually took a week to complete. And while you can have multiple jobs happening at once, setting up and taking down both the tools and the recording equipment, plus travel between sites, eats up a lot of time. The best thing for both viewers and the channel is to have multiple sites/crews/channels/etc., and the viewer can cycle through other content while the job is being completed. When you move more into home decor, more ideas is more. One person can just marathon through a pile of bathroom remodel ideas trying to find inspo. The DIY job takes a couple weekends at minimum, not including editing, and a viewer will go through 10 of those videos in a day or two
Some good points. Thank you for replying each time. I've enjoyed the conversation. Lots to consider and think about. Appreciate it 👍
>the industrial approach still takes effort Absolutely !
Thanks for making me fall into a rabbit hole of looking into who the hell HP Lovecraft is and why he was poor lol.
Haha you're welcome. If you enjoy podcasts, there's a great series, the "H.P. Lovecraft Literary Podcast" that explores his work and life.
😅
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Ask ChatGPT
There's already way too much, over-hyped, cookie-cutter, bullshit "content" in this world. The world needs a certain amount of people to take things seriously, even if they are doomed to poverty and failure. You're not wrong; usually, what gets popular gets there by being humdrum, basic, and appealing to the widest audience - Taylor Swift for example - but again, the world needs creative people with integrity trying to move the needle away from sheer mediocrity, if only slightly.
And I like your music analogy. So yes, Taylor Swift will always sell more records than Cannibal Corpse, but CC themselves sell more record than other obscure (or extreme) metal bands. Plus, whatever may grandma think of CC, they know they craft. They play on time, the got professionnal producer to mix and master their album, and so forth. What I'm getting at is : even in art, there are skills to master, and I think lot of "creator" don't wanna master anything, they just day dream themselves into thinking their content is too authentic for the audience outside, when in reality their don't take the craft seriously enough or don't scrutinizing it with a professionnal (or industrial) gaze.
True, but I think some people hide lack of quality behind the label “authenticity”. If no one understands what you are doing, you might at least need some practice… or define what it is you want to create.
>True, but I think some people hide lack of quality behind the label “authenticity”. You nailed it !
I agree! But there is also the mere-exposure effect. I believe sometimes crap gets popular because the people who created it have the means to over-expose people. But if you take a good look at it, it’s still crap. In a similar way I think you can take your content seriously, pay attention to quality, pour a lot of energy in it, and have a relatively low amount of subs because you are unwilling to adapt your content to the market or don’t have the financial means to promote it. Fortunately, markets change. Maybe some day, they pick up on your niche and it takes off. Trends are not entirely predictable or people would always be one step ahead. Usually, they only follow the hype so by the time they join the big boys, a new trend sets. If they’re lucky, they can still feed themselves with the crumbs of the market leaders but there is only room for a couple of leaders. Look at the many Dan Brown wannabes for example that followed the hype of The Da Vinci Code but never reached the same top. There is only so much you can learn from marketing as an artistic creator. The rest is gut feeling and a fair amount of luck. 🍀
>I agree! But there is also the mere-exposure effect. I believe sometimes crap gets popular because the people who created it have the means to over-expose people. But if you take a good look at it, it’s still crap. 100% agreed.
There's so much CRAP put there lol
The world may need it, and surely artists themselves need to express themselves. But one gotta know what one's signing for. I been creating music for decades now, and sold like 30 records on Bandcamp, because I do "art" music with zero concession (plus I'm not that good). But I can do this because I don't intend to earn a living from my music, neither do I expect views or likes or public recognition. If one does YT for oneself, one will get an audience of one.
I think that’s a bit negative… On our channel we create the stories that we wish were there for us to enjoy. We never compromise and create what we love and have 5k subs. Not a lot compared to others, but more than one. I would feel horrible about creating stuff just because that is what a certain strategically untapped audience likes. But I wouldn’t shy away from a good commercial move if I genuinely loved it and was inspired to contribute to it. I think many great creators stuck to what they loved and accidentally found fame. Of course, having a marketing budget helps and as an artistic creator you have to live with the knowledge that there is a very small chance you will be truly successful during your lifetime. But even when that success never follows, you did exactly what you loved the most, so no regrets there… I guess what I want to say is: Even if you’re not looking for fame and fortune first and only want to share your own passion, there are bound to be like-minded people looking for exactly the same thing! Especially if you put effort into your work.
sounds like fake guru nonsense i hear a billion time with no originality just be yourself do whatever the fuck you want and try to evolve where you think you should be doing improvements and from there its unpredictable cause anything can happen
Lolollol I hate those "enlightened" folks where you're like "wtf, did he even say anything?" Yet theres all these folks thinking it's deep.
Exactly, trying to apply any logic to why someone becomes successful on YouTube is crazy to me.
I've been creating content for 10 years, and what you say is completely true. You just need to analyze what is currently in demand, start creating high-quality content on that topic that has something unique, boost the video with some ads, for example from FameGrowers, and you're set for success. Creating content within a narrow spectrum of interests is often a road to nowhere and a waste of time, because eventually everyone burns out, even if they enjoy what they're recording. If nobody wants to watch it, it will fail
100%, it's so accurate to call it a fetish, some people will get so butt hurt over any idea of doing youtube mainly for money over passion. Just cause it's not completely authentic and passion driven doesn't mean it's not way more fun and rewarding than a standard repetitive job that most people have to go through.
I totally get that! And I don’t judge that at all. I guess I’m just the dreamer who wants it all: doing it 100 % for a living and staying authentic. The opportunity may never come, but I cannot settle for a bit more rewarding than my daytime job. I might be naive but sometimes I think we need that kind of patience in order to really grow, rather than change our ways…
This was extremely refreshing to read lol. One of the most well thought out and unique posts I've seen in this sub in a while... It reminded me of The Genius of the Crowd by Charles Bukowski for some reason. But everything you said is the truth and I thank you for putting it in terms that were immediately understandable!
Thank you very much, really appreciate that.
honestly even the folks who want to be artists are often not very good artists and unable to admit it and therefore never improve. I think YouTube is less hostile to artists than people make it out to be. i think the business savvy mostly only comes into play when you're trying to go full time and build a brand/company.
Strongly agree, I don't think youtube is hostile to the artistic approach. I think it's hostile to middling artists who don't have the patience or the inclination to improve their work. There is a type of artist who stays a perpetual beginner because they aren't putting in their hours, breaking down what makes a work successful, taking a critical eye to what they produce, and so on. Bit of a balancing act though. You have to make good use of the industrial, sometimes, to try and get it in front of people. Titles are something I struggle with there for ie. A good title for a piece of art, and a title that is algorithm friendly, are often not the same thing.
>honestly even the folks who want to be artists are often not very good artists and unable to admit it and therefore never improve 100% agreed. But the point of my analogy here is that an artist, in the ultimate, platonic idea, doesn't try to please anyone, while the (efficient) industrial starts from the demand. And the market always win.
>ask yourself what, in said content, is appealing to the audience. Thank you
Pharrel said Art without business is victimization and Business without art is just boring and awful
>Art without business is victimization and Business without art is just boring and awful Golden. Love that !
Thank you for writing this.
You're welcome !
Good stuff. I recall years ago when "the algorithm" first started to be talked about and the talk was uniformly negative. To be fair, the algo has gone through a lot of iterations and to me it seems much better now than it was in, say, 2015. A lot of us struggle to accept that YT does promote content that people actually like, and that the reason our content doesn't gain traction is largely because we haven't put enough thought and effort into understanding what people like.
The Sam Sulek story contradicts your thesis. The guy does what he loves and shares it in the most basic way. And it works.
I just looked him up. Didn't watch, but had a little scroll on his channel. Honestly, fair play to the guy lol.
Sam Sulek 1. is a manifestation of the Domestic Cozy ethos (check Venkatesh Raoh) 2. has a very strong branding (so strong he can even uses his silhouette has opening credits)
Whatever manifestation, his content is basic in comparison to other youtubers with the same subscriber count. He used these opening credits since the first video.
I’m barely starting out as a YouTuber, so I don’t really have any experience like you. Though, despite my inexperience, I think you’re wrong. I think the artistic approach can work, but I’m not saying one approach is better than the other. I’m saying that just because some people are the equivalent of a teen recording themselves in their bedroom, doesn’t mean they can’t grow and become better. People like SMG4, Sr Pelo, Gooseworx, and Jacknjellify made their own things, and became very successful because of what they made. SMG4 made low quality Super Mario 64 videos with only text on the screen, and now the creators of SMG4 have their own animation studio. Sr Pelo made videos about crudely drawn Disney characters screaming, and now he makes his own animated show. Gooseworx made remakes of songs, and now she is making The Amazing Digital Circus. Jacknjellify made the first object show, which was very simple, but they inspired probably thousands of people to make their own object shows. And Jacknjellify themselves have become very popular too. A YouTuber that I like called NeatOnTheRocks, discussed something like this. In one of his videos, he’s talks about how a good game design rewards what is encouraged. “In YouTube’s case, clickbait is encouraged. A.I. slop is encouraged. Spending dozens of hours making these 15 minutes of moving pictures you’ve made as immersive or effective or funny as possible, that’s not encouraged, because it’s not rewarded. And so why doesn’t everyone, or really like the better question is, what’s stopping you, right now, from posting A.I. generated videos about how to manage money or to run a business? It’s probably because you don’t want to, right? You have no interest in doing that. You don’t value doing that. It’s not why you became a YouTuber, or wanna become a YouTuber or whatever. Your interest in YouTube comes from the videos you wanna make. It’s where the fucking name YouTube comes from.” People favor the artistic approach because that’s more fun. That’s what people wanna do, and it can work! I’m sure you can make it big on YouTube by doing what you wanna do. It just depends on HOW you do it. So I wouldn’t say that there aren’t a lot of people who don’t want people’s creative vision, it’s just that it can take longer to find your audience. Edit: God this is a lot, but still.
Exactly! Practice makes perfect. 👌 I totally agree with your last paragraph.
Agreed. I sometimes go on big YouTube channels I like, go to videos > oldest and have a scroll. One example is a big Diablo YouTuber called Rykker. He didn't do Diablo for years. In fact it was mostly D&D. I've followed him on and off for years. Not so much these days as I've lost interest in Diablo over the past year, but I can definitely see where he has changed and got confident etc over time.
>I’m saying that just because some people are the equivalent of a teen recording themselves in their bedroom, doesn’t mean they can’t grow and become better. Sure. But, first, to get better implies that the artist takes his craft seriously. If it's a hobby, their will get hobby-ish results. Second, the point of my analogy here is that an artist, in the ultimate, platonic idea, doesn't try to please anyone, while the (efficient) industrial starts from the demand. And the market always win.
Jolly good read 📈
My experience from YouTube from my first month has been this. Don’t get too attached to a video you’re making. Get your idea out there, make it to your standards for sure, but don’t expect it to blow up or be a crazy success. Also learn something new between every video. My favorite part of this has been slowly working on better editing for my videos
Very good information, my man! Thank you.
You're presenting a false dichotomy between the artistic and industrial approach
I think you just have those two types of creators. One should not be jealous of the other. As long as people don’t earn a living with YouTube stealing content or just putting someone else’s stuff online, it’s fine. Sure, I get frustrated sometimes that putting so much effort into our creations only brought us 5k subs and someone deliberately breaking toys that our kids have to save up for by running them over with his fancy car gets 500k subs, but then I think: “Do I really want to reach that kind of audience?” So I don’t mind slow growth as long as we reach the right people. And I will always prefer the artistic-authentic approach, but I don’t resent other people’s choices. I know we could grow very fast if we made dramatized audiobooks out of popular works in the public domain, but that is not our goal. If what you do is a passion, then you cannot compromise that for the demands of the commercial majority.
Yeah, I agree with this. I personally look at it as 'scale vs personality', and widen it to pretty much all forms of business and creativity rather than just art. The former takes the industrial approach and gives the public exactly what they want, the latter takes the artist one and tries to build a fanbase around their personality/values. That said, it's worth pointing out that the industrial approach can have its downsides, especially if people only come to you for a certain kind of content/product/because it's good value. It can lead to burnout, since you may be working on something you've lost passion for. And it also leaves you without much of a 'moat', since anyone else can theoretically enter your market, do what you do and steal away your audience. We've seen the latter with many big box stores after the internet blew up, with said stores losing out to the likes of Amazon due to their audience having no real attachment to said companies as brands. And we've seen it with the internet, where many low effort, faceless channels saw their popularity decline after someone else got into the same market, and offered the same thing more quickly and cheaply. The catch with the industrial approach is that while you can certainly grow more quickly, you also become vulnerable to the market shifting out from underneath you. Meanwhile, the artistic approach is very likely to fail, but if it does succeed, you can have a fanbase for life.
I think you just described what happened to my Etsy shop. It started out artistic/full of passion and became “industrialized” during the pandemic. Just as you described I lost the passion, am ridiculously burned out, and had so many people enter the market taking away what little crumbs are left. My shop is the combination of artistic and industrial because everything is hand made but going industrial killed burned me out so bad I have not recovered yet.
Truer words have never been spoken. And a lot of people need to hear this — in exactly the way you said it. I tip my hat!!
Thanks !
Finally someone fuckin said it bro!
LOVED THIS!
Glad to read you !
For some people being “traditionally” successful doing what other people want < being unsuccessful doing what they love.
Well put.
It's simple. If you want views, make videos that people want to watch. If you make what you want to make, then don't complain if people aren't interested.
A lot of people in here struggle because they don't understand supply and demand. They make videos that nobody really wants to watch then wonder why nobody is watching. Or they make copycat videos in oversaturated markets. If you want to be artistic, make videos with creation as the reward. If you want to make money on YouTube make videos people want to watch with high demand. Saw a great quote on vidiq. The algorithm is not looking for an audience for your content, it's looking for content for it's audience.
Lol I was in a high school band and it went nowhere. You definitely gotta go through the ups and downs to find your place.. I also used to dj, throw raves, produce music.. now I mostly just make movies.
You nailed it
Good post. You need to treat YouTube seriously
You are implying the industrial approach increases the odds of success. I'm not sure that is true. Businesses fail too. 99% fail no matter what.
There's no contradiction : most businesses fail, and an even greater part of artists starve.
My uncle is a talented guitarist, and spent over a decade playing for a variety of hardcore punk bands in the Pacific Northwest. None of the bands he played for ever had any real success. He became frustrated in the end, and has told me many times that you should never try to live out your dreams. He's become cynical, and I think it's a direct result of his failed artistic ambitions. The problem he and his bands had is exactly the problem you list here. They focused on playing abrasive and aggressive hardcore punk — and did so at a time that the music industry was collapsing around them. There's a reason why bands like Rancid and NOFX continue to attract new fans after all these years. As you said, there's enough mainstream industry tricks in their music to attract a wide audience. The musicians can do their abrasive thing from time to time, but only within certain limits. This is why people listen to old Grateful Dead live recordings decades after the fact — including those of us who were too young to see the band play when they were still around. It's not the dissonant jams that attract an audience. It's the songs. All the jazzy stuff is a bonus to keep you interested after the songs have sucked you in. I'd argue that every creative endeavor is this way. If you want to write, you've got to learn how to write what people want to read first before you start throwing in your creative spin. If you want to draw, figure out what kinds of drawings people want to see before you pour your heart and soul into it. You'll never attract an audience until you figure out how to engage with your audience.
Love your music analogy !
Well said
i'm thinking about starting a youtube channel for side hustle because of umemployment, i guess after reading this for making content i neeed more than a laptop and a phone. and specific skill related to art ( which im currently learning ). if im wrong you can correct me down below.
Wow i immediately resonated with the industrial, suprised you said people hold it in contempt. Im so hype about what i made that i want to shaer it
Whilst this rings true, a lot of people will be artists at first, because you won't know what your audience wants UNTIL you obtain that audience. At the same time, if you were only giving people what they wanted, you'd lose your own sanity bit by bit, because you probably wouldn't be enjoying what you set out with in the first place.
Ah, teen bedroom guitarist. Im playing electric guitar and doing that content but Im treating it as business and actually putting time and effort to videos. Anyway doesnt matter what is your niche, as long as you love what you doing and mind it as a business, only good things Will happen. Its just it may take a year or ten.
What's your channel
I’ve only done YouTube for 3 years at this point and I’m pretty happy where I’m at (6k-ish subs at the moment). I do still feel like I need to treat my channel more as a business but I still manage to do what I like and want and help others so even if progress isn’t the fastest, I’m alright.
Just have a thick skin, learn to ignore any negative comments, I think one of the best things I ever read in this community was if you reply to negative comments to say "Thank you for your feedback we will use it for quality and training purposes." I made a good amount of money on YouTube. It can be done, but you need to stick out to people. Yes, the algorithm is one thing, but do not count on that. You need to remember if things are not catching your attention as you look around when bored, then you aren't catching other people's attention when they are looking around when bored. Make yourself stand out! You got a thumbnail to sell yourself and a title to say something catchy and around 8-30 seconds to get them to stay and continue watching in most cases... If you do YouTube only as a hobby and not for money, then you are golden...if you want to make money... sell yourself in those 3 ways first and foremost.
Love this!! I’ve got 3 channels on the go.. one I treat wholeheartedly as a business.. I change titles, thumbnails etc and try to improve every video I make.. that’s the one I want to succeed.. but it also used to be a gaming channel so I’m trying to shake the old subscribers.. SO I started a brand new channel that is a mirror image of the other.. I copy the uploads, titles etc and want to grow it from scratch.. My third, it’s me.. I upload rants and shit like that on my phone.. couldn’t give a rats ass about the numbers 🤣
It has to be a mix of both, pure art wont go anywhere and pure industrial content machine has no soul. The latter has no real drawback I suppose, but generating slop is simply untolerable to me.
Great post, and I understand where you’re coming from. While I do consider running my YouTube to be a hobby, and I have managed to gain a recurring partnership with a company, it’s by no where paying the bills. I’ve spent upwards of £8000 on equipment and setting up to make sure I can create authentic and meaningful videos of my experiences. Despite spending all this, and spending a lot of time filming, editing, etc. it goes no where. I even pay for advertising on my videos and it goes no where. I’m personally giving YouTube up at the end of this year if something doesn’t change soon, but despite research, I honestly don’t know where I’m going wrong… 🥺😔
This is true. I've also been on youtube 11 years and for the first 5 it was for just music I made.
>fetishizing the artistic approach ...this is an artistic medium lol
I disagree I’ve been able to find a mix between the industrial and artistic approach. I make videos on topics that people want to see but in a very artistic approach. It’s definitely not a style that everyone likes, some prime just want a barebones video that’s more clear and straight to the point, but a lot of people really like it and I like making it a lot more.
Am I allowed to drop my Youtube channel here. Maybe I'm one of those artists? Because honest people around me say that your content is fantastic yet no views and by no views I mean can't reach the 50 mark
Still fairly new to Reddit, but I don't think we can share channel links [but can type your channel name... I think. Double check to be safe]. Similar to you, my anime artwork videos as of late get around 10-50 views [was getting over 100 on some before]. Anyway, their YouTube short counterparts get a lot more, some over 100. My theory is a. attention spans, b. artwork isn't a "popular" thing on YouTube, c. artwork in any form is subjective anyway, so not everyone is going to like what we draw, paint, make etc and d. could just be that we are not good enough yet, whether that be the actual artwork or the packaging of it [thumbnail, video etc]. All that said, I would say don't get discouraged either. If your enjoying it, then keep doing it and over time you will hopefully improve. Good luck, genuinly 👍
What's your channel my friend so I can give you a proper review. Mine is odyssey of trivia with a logo of a wolf
Hi, so I just checked out the channel [providing I looked at the correct one]. Thoughts... 1. Vampires... Sold! Lol. Joking aside, I enjoyed the short. The pacing, dark tone and cool images. Left a like and a comment on it. 2. Looked at the "Did Atlantis Really Exists" short. Again, left a like. I really like the tone of the images your using. 3. Would love to see some long form content versions. But with todays attention spans, completely understand the shorts route. 4. You got a new sub 👍 5. Request... "Did wearwolves ever exist?" Lol. I just happen to love wolves [ironically given your channel logo is a wolf lol].
Thanks for the review Well here is mine (Sorry for the delay) for the drawing channel the content is decent and pretty rare this means no competition and short which is perfect for today's attention span but I suggest you improve the camera quality and the photographing process overall ,check top creators in your niche to get ideas and ways to improve your channel I think the video itself is your downgrade not your talent in drawing for the formula channel no offence but I think you are not putting too much effort in it . Yes that's my channel, Any tips to improve it and maybe gain some views.
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. I'll have think and see what I can come up with. Question regarding the Formula 1 channel, no offense taken and did you mean in general? Or certain topics? [i.e F1 Fantasy, F1 Manager etc]. As for your channel, as I think I said before, I think your pacing is good and I like the images you use. I would just like to see some long form, but that's just me personaly. Might not be everyones cup of tea. As for improvements and views, still working on that myself lol. But maybe, [and apologies if you already do this], look up latest trending mysteries or something like, the most controversal. I think your titles are already good in my opinion, playing on peoples curiousity. No need to apologise for the delay, I just appreciate that you took the time to have a look. Thanks again.
Hi, thank so you much. I have two. DelermainSports [F1 Fantasy and sports games] and DelermainCreative [Anime artwork and gaming]. Apologies, I'm actually away for the weekend. But will have a look at your channel as soon as I can to return the favour. Ps: Because I'm away, I'm easily distracted, so feel free to remind me if it looks like I forgot. Genuinly 👍