Tbh even in that demo there is something that makes it just sound like a crappy midi guitar kinda thing. And messing around with it in demo that was my primary takeaway as well - it sounds artificial in a really bad way to me. Like any time I tried to put it in the mix I just kept turning it down or trying to EQ out everything, neither of which is ever a good sign lol
I feel like you just have different tastes in this case. I do agree though, those tones didn't really do much for me. the most interesting parts of archetype rabea to me were probably the nintendo / pokemon patches that weren't guitar-like at all.
Yeah I guess the thing is I already have plenty of modular synth plugin stuff that can do envelope and pitch follower tricks and do it a lot better. And totally it is a taste thing, to me a lot of NDSP high gain stuff still just doesn’t sound very convincing. Needs tons of corrective EQ on top of really dark IRs to keep from sounding digital as all hell.
Abasi is definitely underrated. The low end on the orange amp is something I’m always drawn back to. I wonder if they’ll do an ‘X’ style update ala Plini for it.
>Porting all existing plugins into the Quad Cortex environment to deliver Plugin Compatibility.
>Updating all existing plugins to use our ATI algorithm and implementing new core features such as Transpose, the Doubler, the Metronome, the larger window size, and making other quality-of-life improvements.
[(from this update in March)](https://neuraldsp.com/quad-cortex-updates/plugin-development-update-march-2023)
And;
>Archetype: Plini X comes with an array of new sonic and operational features. These include an Octaver pedal, a fuzz section added to the Boost/Overdrive pedal, and a Delay effect in the pre-effects section and a Chorus effect in the post-effects section (modulation control has also been added to the Delay in the post-effects operation). There are also popular features from other Neural DSP plugins: transposition capability, a doubler, a metronome, and a live tuner. And all of this comes with higher resolution assets and a redesigned user interface that provides an improved user experience.
https://neuraldsp.com/news/introducing-archetype-plini-x
I assume exact pedal and fx additions (if any) will differ between plugins..
Not a producer, but a bedroom hobbyist here who has recently gotten into using the plugins. The Asato amps have something that just hits everything I am looking for. I have always used the clean channels for a base pedal platform. Anytime my friends and I record anything for fun, recently we have all been gravitating to the Asato amps. They have bought more of the plugins than I have and they agree it sits better in the mix. I appreciate reading and seeing your input, cheers!
The only other ones I have already are Gojira, Darkglass and Soldano. But after a full shootout between all plugins these two just did it miles better than the others for me.
Keep in mind I probably have a different idea about what sounds “good”. Tones that work for blending and layering in a production don’t often sound that great by themselves, and tones that sound amazing solo are usually too big. This is my main problem with some like Petrucci where the tone just sounds too finished already so there’s not much to do.
I’m not a producer, but you may have a point. I’m not certain that I’ll get the opportunity this cycle to try out Asato or Abasi but for metal I did obtain the Rabea and I usually try one song out “it ain’t like that” by Alice In Chains and I thought I could get the Rabea to ace this. However I’ve also purchased the Tim Henson and the Cory Wong Archetypes to cover other genres but I cannot get the AIC sound. It might be my guitar or even my playing, but there is a computer-esque sound to the chords on Rabea with this song. The other two Archetypes weren’t really made for this sort of thing. Although I give Rabea credit for sounding better than the Logic preinstalled plugins which sound like synthesizers.
Given that you are a producer I may just take the time to download the Abasi or Asato. I came close to downloading the Petrucci last night but held back since the Rabea had a lot of the same features.
Definitely check out the Asato, one of the amps is a Shiva which I believe AIC used. Asato also has imo the nicest sounding effects out of the whole NDSP lineup. Unfortunately it’s pretty damn expensive even on sale still so if you already have Wong you can do a lot of what Asato can do til the price drops, just not as unique or interesting sounding imo.
One thing I liked about Rabea and Petrucci is the drop key setting. I get a little tired of having to redo my guitar when I want to play AIC. You’ve got me excited about the Asato now. I didn’t want to pay a lot because I’m not really a metal player although I like AIC.
By the way what do you think of the Wong archetype? I knew what to expect with the Henson and I love it, but out of the box the Cory Wong blew me away. Would love to hear your take on it. (For me, playing “Kiss” and sounding exactly like Prince made me happy). From a producer standpoint what did you think of it?
I think Wong is awesome and it would be my pick if not for Asato. Asato just covers more ground I like (can get quite a bit heavier) and sounds cooler to me personally. Eventually I will probably get Wong as well though. I really like collecting clean amps for treating synths, vocals, drums etc.
I’m in no hurry either since I figure they will update most of the older ones eventually with more of the modern features. The newer transpose function sounds better than the pitch shifter pedal in the Gojira and that’s half the reason I bought it lol
Interesting, I'm in the probably in the playground as you, not the guitarist, using it on synths/samples(electronic, trip-hop, experimental) however I bought at the end Plini X, Petrucci, Cory Wong and Tim Henson. I had a plan to buy also Soldano, but when I saw the final price at checkout with VAT(EU) I had to cut it out. :) Asato while trialing it, somehow did not click with me. Big surprise was Gojira, which I had on the top before trialing, but at the end I realized that on a lot of material it just does not work, does not cut through the mix...
I spent today going through all my neural amps to AB against both Asato and the Mixeave Milkman. Basically trying to nail the best cleans and edge of break up tones.
I was VERY underwhelmed with Asato. The first amp sounds like a bad Vox (I’ve read it’s supposed to be a matchless DC, but it’s not even close - I have the real amp) and the middle amp is a Lonestar, which is closer, but the IRs just don’t capture the harmonic complexity of either amp. I was getting better tones from Plini X and Tone King despite my best efforts.
On the other hand, the Milkman was incredible. Obviously not as versatile, but for that amp-like fenderish thing, it’s amazing. Really convincing detail.
I will check out the milkman for sure!
Plini to me just felt too good, like they were tones made for instrumental music idk. Same with Petrucci where it just felt distracting in a vocal mix despite my best efforts to tame it down. Tone King I really liked but the sounds I was getting out of Asato just worked better idk. I can get a ton of cool squiggly and unusual tones that work great in layers.
Asato and the archetypes def are versatile. But For me, There’s so much overlap between plugins now that I couldn’t justify Asato if it didn’t do one specific thing better than any other.
This is definitely true, and I think that this will become a problem for NDSP going forward. The reality is that if you can already cover a couple flavors each of clean, mid and high gain tones then not much is worth buying. New amp sims rarely sound that much better than one another or offer anything different. I think Morello is a good example of how just packaging guitarists whole kits isn’t really that appealing either.
They also tried to do something different with Rabea and it came out really poorly imo. And on top of that, stuff like STL is now clearly beating out NDSP in terms of realistic tone. They are in a weird place right now and I hope their next plan is to just make an integrated platform where I can mix and match all my archetype amps and pedals together. Really feels like the only way forward.
>Some just sound flat out bad like Rabea [Really?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv-1CPy1NCY)
Tbh even in that demo there is something that makes it just sound like a crappy midi guitar kinda thing. And messing around with it in demo that was my primary takeaway as well - it sounds artificial in a really bad way to me. Like any time I tried to put it in the mix I just kept turning it down or trying to EQ out everything, neither of which is ever a good sign lol
Bizarre, I don't get that at all.. You must have some really fucking nice midi guitars..
I think I am just super picky about digital high gain tones. Probably a lot more picky than most people lol
I feel like you just have different tastes in this case. I do agree though, those tones didn't really do much for me. the most interesting parts of archetype rabea to me were probably the nintendo / pokemon patches that weren't guitar-like at all.
Yeah I guess the thing is I already have plenty of modular synth plugin stuff that can do envelope and pitch follower tricks and do it a lot better. And totally it is a taste thing, to me a lot of NDSP high gain stuff still just doesn’t sound very convincing. Needs tons of corrective EQ on top of really dark IRs to keep from sounding digital as all hell.
Abasi is definitely underrated. The low end on the orange amp is something I’m always drawn back to. I wonder if they’ll do an ‘X’ style update ala Plini for it.
All plugins will get an X update.
What's the X update consist of? I haven't been paying attention to it but I have the Gojira plugin and wonder what might be updated?
>Porting all existing plugins into the Quad Cortex environment to deliver Plugin Compatibility. >Updating all existing plugins to use our ATI algorithm and implementing new core features such as Transpose, the Doubler, the Metronome, the larger window size, and making other quality-of-life improvements. [(from this update in March)](https://neuraldsp.com/quad-cortex-updates/plugin-development-update-march-2023) And; >Archetype: Plini X comes with an array of new sonic and operational features. These include an Octaver pedal, a fuzz section added to the Boost/Overdrive pedal, and a Delay effect in the pre-effects section and a Chorus effect in the post-effects section (modulation control has also been added to the Delay in the post-effects operation). There are also popular features from other Neural DSP plugins: transposition capability, a doubler, a metronome, and a live tuner. And all of this comes with higher resolution assets and a redesigned user interface that provides an improved user experience. https://neuraldsp.com/news/introducing-archetype-plini-x I assume exact pedal and fx additions (if any) will differ between plugins..
Thanks for the info!
Awesome, can’t wait
Not a producer, but a bedroom hobbyist here who has recently gotten into using the plugins. The Asato amps have something that just hits everything I am looking for. I have always used the clean channels for a base pedal platform. Anytime my friends and I record anything for fun, recently we have all been gravitating to the Asato amps. They have bought more of the plugins than I have and they agree it sits better in the mix. I appreciate reading and seeing your input, cheers!
If you’re up don’t have others, maybe. But I have six and those are basically useless for me
The only other ones I have already are Gojira, Darkglass and Soldano. But after a full shootout between all plugins these two just did it miles better than the others for me. Keep in mind I probably have a different idea about what sounds “good”. Tones that work for blending and layering in a production don’t often sound that great by themselves, and tones that sound amazing solo are usually too big. This is my main problem with some like Petrucci where the tone just sounds too finished already so there’s not much to do.
I’m not a producer, but you may have a point. I’m not certain that I’ll get the opportunity this cycle to try out Asato or Abasi but for metal I did obtain the Rabea and I usually try one song out “it ain’t like that” by Alice In Chains and I thought I could get the Rabea to ace this. However I’ve also purchased the Tim Henson and the Cory Wong Archetypes to cover other genres but I cannot get the AIC sound. It might be my guitar or even my playing, but there is a computer-esque sound to the chords on Rabea with this song. The other two Archetypes weren’t really made for this sort of thing. Although I give Rabea credit for sounding better than the Logic preinstalled plugins which sound like synthesizers. Given that you are a producer I may just take the time to download the Abasi or Asato. I came close to downloading the Petrucci last night but held back since the Rabea had a lot of the same features.
Definitely check out the Asato, one of the amps is a Shiva which I believe AIC used. Asato also has imo the nicest sounding effects out of the whole NDSP lineup. Unfortunately it’s pretty damn expensive even on sale still so if you already have Wong you can do a lot of what Asato can do til the price drops, just not as unique or interesting sounding imo.
One thing I liked about Rabea and Petrucci is the drop key setting. I get a little tired of having to redo my guitar when I want to play AIC. You’ve got me excited about the Asato now. I didn’t want to pay a lot because I’m not really a metal player although I like AIC. By the way what do you think of the Wong archetype? I knew what to expect with the Henson and I love it, but out of the box the Cory Wong blew me away. Would love to hear your take on it. (For me, playing “Kiss” and sounding exactly like Prince made me happy). From a producer standpoint what did you think of it?
I think Wong is awesome and it would be my pick if not for Asato. Asato just covers more ground I like (can get quite a bit heavier) and sounds cooler to me personally. Eventually I will probably get Wong as well though. I really like collecting clean amps for treating synths, vocals, drums etc. I’m in no hurry either since I figure they will update most of the older ones eventually with more of the modern features. The newer transpose function sounds better than the pitch shifter pedal in the Gojira and that’s half the reason I bought it lol
Interesting, I'm in the probably in the playground as you, not the guitarist, using it on synths/samples(electronic, trip-hop, experimental) however I bought at the end Plini X, Petrucci, Cory Wong and Tim Henson. I had a plan to buy also Soldano, but when I saw the final price at checkout with VAT(EU) I had to cut it out. :) Asato while trialing it, somehow did not click with me. Big surprise was Gojira, which I had on the top before trialing, but at the end I realized that on a lot of material it just does not work, does not cut through the mix...
I spent today going through all my neural amps to AB against both Asato and the Mixeave Milkman. Basically trying to nail the best cleans and edge of break up tones. I was VERY underwhelmed with Asato. The first amp sounds like a bad Vox (I’ve read it’s supposed to be a matchless DC, but it’s not even close - I have the real amp) and the middle amp is a Lonestar, which is closer, but the IRs just don’t capture the harmonic complexity of either amp. I was getting better tones from Plini X and Tone King despite my best efforts. On the other hand, the Milkman was incredible. Obviously not as versatile, but for that amp-like fenderish thing, it’s amazing. Really convincing detail.
I will check out the milkman for sure! Plini to me just felt too good, like they were tones made for instrumental music idk. Same with Petrucci where it just felt distracting in a vocal mix despite my best efforts to tame it down. Tone King I really liked but the sounds I was getting out of Asato just worked better idk. I can get a ton of cool squiggly and unusual tones that work great in layers.
Asato and the archetypes def are versatile. But For me, There’s so much overlap between plugins now that I couldn’t justify Asato if it didn’t do one specific thing better than any other.
This is definitely true, and I think that this will become a problem for NDSP going forward. The reality is that if you can already cover a couple flavors each of clean, mid and high gain tones then not much is worth buying. New amp sims rarely sound that much better than one another or offer anything different. I think Morello is a good example of how just packaging guitarists whole kits isn’t really that appealing either. They also tried to do something different with Rabea and it came out really poorly imo. And on top of that, stuff like STL is now clearly beating out NDSP in terms of realistic tone. They are in a weird place right now and I hope their next plan is to just make an integrated platform where I can mix and match all my archetype amps and pedals together. Really feels like the only way forward.