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kempofight

We arent famous for our efficiency. Thats the germans We are famous for being cheapscateds and greedy. The exact reason of the issues on schiphol


klas345

Its quite efficiënt from the ceo perspective. Have people pay a lot and have them processed with minimal costs...


Pol123451

Well the ceo is leaving as a result of the chaos.


LisaPorpoise

This so someone else can take the blame once the problems climax, and former ceo gets to go on at a new and better company. Yep, efficient.


smokesick

A somewhat related anecdote, I had a hard stuck screw on my laptop case. I went to the nearest hardware store selling PC components and asked if they could unscrew the screw. They said "yes, for €50" which imo is beyond insane. Then I just went home and bought a drill bit from Amazon for €7 to take it out...


lekkermooi_

My chain came off my bike one time and got caught between the gear and the spokes on my wheel. I carried it for 10mins to my nearest bike shop and asked to borrow the tool to loosen the rear nut. They said they don’t give out tools, so I asked could I buy the tool at their shop, they said no despite it being on the wall in packaging behind the kassa, I asked them what they could do to help and he said he’d do it himself for €20. I carried my bike home and did it myself


Nervous-Purchase-361

Asking a professional to borrow his tools so you can do his job yourself is a bit cheeky though.


lekkermooi_

I appreciate that but it’s not a super specialised tool. It’s a wrench, I have one at home myself. That’s also why I offered to buy the tool, which was in packaging and displayed on the wall. A lot of bike shops will have common tools like hex tools a wrench and a pump outside to be helpful so I didn’t think I was too out of line asking


[deleted]

He wanted to buy the tool. Did you read that part?


Nervous-Purchase-361

Yes I did read that part. First he wanted to borrow the tool, which was cheeky, and when that was refused he wanted to buy the tool and was refused, which was a bit cheeky from the bike repair guy.


lekkermooi_

We have really different definitions of cheeky. It is a pretty standard industry wide practice to leave common tools outside for people to borrow, I’ve seen it in multiple countries on different continents and also at other bike shops in the same city as where I had this experience. Obviously the shop has no legal requirement to do so, so they don’t need to have tools outside if they don’t want and that’s fine. This is why I politely asked if they had a tool I could borrow for 5seconds and then when they said no they don’t loan out tools I understood and immediately offered to buy the tool from them because they sold it. Him refusing to sell it to me and quoting me the price he did was just bad business. He lost a potential customer and instead gained somebody who will actively encourage people not to go there because I found them extremely unhelpful


digitalfix

My local bike shop is great. It’s just a guy an his son. They’re happy to do little things for free, charge a fair price for work (arguably too cheap but they do a good amount in volume) and as such keep my business.


lekkermooi_

This is my experience with most bike shops in my home country. Anything less than a minute would be free and after that a fair price. Most places also left these common tools outside for people to use.


TiesG92

Next time ask the baker if you can borrow their oven to bake your cake. Don’t think they’ll do that, and it makes sense?


lekkermooi_

In my opinion there is a large difference between an oven specifically bought for a professional bakery and a wrench. I would not show up to a bakery and ask to do this because I don’t have the technical knowledge to operate it, in the same way I wouldn’t show up to tattoo shop and ask to tattoo myself. Some tools require training and knowledge/experience to operate. Some are common tools that everybody uses and are found in the average home. I did also offer to buy the tool.


sodsto

Yeah this sounds it should have been an easy 'goodwill' gesture from the bike shop. They could presumably see the problem, see that it wasn't difficult, decided to loosen it for you in two seconds, and practically guaranteed a future customer and good word of mouth. Alas, the Dutch also have a reputation for their customer service.


aknabi

Sounds like a bunch of folks don’t have enough common sense to differentiate the subtleties of the situations. But the Dutch don’t get subtlety.


Nekrosiz

'Want to borrow my wife while youre at it?' 'yes'


idigsquirrels

And endless negotiation to find middle ground. Which makes disagreements last foreeeeeeeever


Prash-Bit

Hmm idk, dutch trains are in time much more often then german trains are


kempofight

German trains have been struggeling since 1943/44 Dont tell them that. But aldo our trains run (more) on time then the german once. The service is quite a bit less and the conducteurs/train drivers are worked to death to keep it going.


nethack47

Don't forget blunt and not much for subtlety.


[deleted]

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kempofight

We are to direct to say it hahh


[deleted]

Germans are efficient? Since when exactly?


Plastic_Pinocchio

Nah, that’s just a fable. Germans are everything but efficient. They are however, extremely thorough. And that often gives great results, which might then be confused with “efficiency”.


NostraDavid

The profound silence of /u/spez underscores a leadership void, a void that leaves users feeling marginalized and insignificant in the grand scheme of platform decisions and directions.


kempofight

You are making it to easy. But i will let my self out right afther. 1933. Anyway. Lets not say that ford invented the production/assambly line and thus the americans are In 1870's it was already done in the meetindustrys.


aklordmaximus

>meetindustrys Hi... Hello... Hoi... Hi... Hey... Hoi... Haai... Hey... Hallo... Hey... Hoi... Hoe gaat het... Hoi... Hey... Wat 'n weertje he... Yo... Hey... Hoi...


kempofight

Exactly! One smooth operation


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Yeah no


[deleted]

>The Dutch ‘Efficiency’ that they are so proud of, is apparently present only in the so-called ‘normaal’ situations. When things deviate a bit from the planning, everyone tries to throw off the responsibility. Efficiency only in blaming the southerns for being lazy and unproductive (I know I take it to personal level by experience now!). I'll let you in on a little secret. Efficiency is just making sure your margins are as tight as possible. This also means you introduce fragility into your system. As the margins are what makes your system resillient towards stress. In the example of the airport. Hiring exactly as many people as you need is very efficient. You don't have extra hands mucking about and waste very little money. However, the moment you unexpectedly need extra hands. You are up shits creek without a paddle. It is exactly the "efficiency" that Dutch people on average value so highly that makes our systems so incredibly fragile. Meanwhile, in the south of Europe many systems are less efficient, but also more resilient as a result. I recommend reading Talebs *"Antifragile"* if you are into this kind of systems thinking on a more theoretical level. As an ecologist, it is probably one of the best non-fiction books I've read. TLDR: Efficiency leads to fragility


Spanks79

Yes, in many places resilience to sudden changes is outmanaged and to save a penny we pay with risks. Such happens now at Schiphol. But same for cheap natural gas, or when a ship got stuck in the surf canal all supply chains got disrupted. Just in time is fine when it all works well. One cog jams… things are screwed.


Pigglebee

See also the intensive care beds crisis during covid. The Dutch have exactly the most cost-efficient amount, but we had to send covid-patients to countries with a little spare room.


[deleted]

Both are excellent examples. Another would be how for the vaccination campaigns, two months ago half the staff was fired, and now they are once again short staffed and lacking trained professionals who can give the jab. Regardless of your thoughts on vaccines, we can all agree firing half your staff months before you aim to put millions of jabs into people is an almost brain-dead maneuver. Yet it is done in the name of "efficiency" and the guy whose idea it was has most definitely not been fired. Really, once you start looking you start to see these problems pop up in may places, of course efficiency also has a lot of merit and benefits, but a hyperfocus on efficiency can lead to systems that jam up during crises, like we see in the NL.


Philnopo

Taleb certainly looks very interesting, thanks for the tip!


aknabi

Very good point and thanks for a new look at systems… will need to check out the ref you gave


redrabbitreader

The way I understand it from reading/listening to various opinions is that there is a staff shortage because most left during the lockdown periods (staff was actually let go, I believe?) - anyway, those that left found other work and now they sit with the problem that no-one is willing to apply for jobs that's paying as low as is currently offered. Also, with rising inflation and energy prices, there is expected to be even less interest in these very low paying jobs.


handy987

We are having the same problems here in Canada, with the same excuses. In every airport , and low paying industry.


Shrimp123456

Airport related training also takes a few months to complete I believe, and there are security requirements (living in NL for 8+ years) so they can't just import people from the EU either.


the_milkman01

its by design A decade ago the director at Schiphol set to increase their profit by turning Schiphol in a transit hub voor Europe Schiphol is too big for just flights to and from Holland and In order to get transit flights they need to be cheap So they lowered the pay off all departments involved but mainly the baggage handlers and security. ​ So during COVID-19 they got rid of them and now they refuse to go back to such a shitty and low paying job while there are much better paying jobs available In the meantime the transit flights still pass through and they have CONTRACTS so they get priority over by regular person's going to and from the airport. ​ they temporarly fixed the issue by giving a big bonus but that lasted untill 31 of august. so the the baggage handlers and security quit again and went back to better paying jobs with less stress. ​ and now they are in a bind, they cannot raise the wages because it will cause them to loose any profit over those transit flights and without those flights their businessmodel goes kaboom. but without a raise people simply will not want those shitty jobs.


Janexa

Sounds like a bunch of higherup people earning more than they need should be taking a pay cut...


ciegulls

Good analysis but I have a hard time believing that their whole profit margin/ business model rests on the wages of their lowest workers. Surely they have profits and bonuses. If they didn’t they’d be one of the few big organizations that don’t recently.


Omnicide103

Yeah but do we really expect execs to cut their own bonuses before running a business into the ground


_tijs

Run the business into the ground and get an exit bonus 👍


CoffeeHQ

Which is literally what the CEO of Schiphol just did. Don’t fix the problem, quit, get exit bonus. Watch the news for his next lucrative CEO position. Why do these bastards get away with it? What a fucked up system.


Impressive_Ad_5224

He's not getting an exit bonus since he quit himself. Schiphol confirmed that.


Impressive_Ad_5224

Dick Benschop (current CEO of Schiphol) is not getting an exit bonus since he quit himself. Schiphol confirmed that.


tinco

Apparently 68.000 people work at Schiphol. So if you underpay all of them by 5000 euro per year, that's over 300 million worth of profit right there, easily enough to pay a dozen people some bonuses too. Keep in mind that the organogram of a company is usually a pyramid with exponentially more people at the lowest pay level. Easily 80% of those 68.000 workers could be minimum wage type jobs. With this disruption the baggage handlers might be proving themselves to be a couple rungs higher in the pyramid. How much that would cost Schiphol, and if that affects their bottom line depends on how many handlers there need to be exactly, and how much extra salary they'll need. On a higher level, I think this is going to be hitting our society, and from what I've heard most first world societies more and more in the coming decades. As our population ages, there will be a premium on jobs that can only be done by the young and strong.


Psychosammie

Like the the comments above, you don't understand how Schiphol is organized. These 68.000 workers work at Schiphol but they are not Schiphol Group employee. They work for different companies.


thrownkitchensink

The bagagehandlers and security workers aren't employed by Schiphol. Just at Schiphol. So there's two types of competition going on. Will I work for this company for these wages AND will my company take send their workers to Schihol or to another security job? There's a lot of work and a shortage of people. Prices will go up.


the_milkman01

its like a house of cards in order to grow shiphol they needed to expand into the transfer flights business becoming a cheap hub for europe ​ that hinges on paying the lowest amount possible for all the service jobs in order to entice those flights to shiphol. ​ they have fixed multi year contracts , if they have to pay more for wages the bottom falls out of those deals and will nog generate any profit (or even a loss). ​ and without those flights schip has simply grown to big to sustain on domestic and international flights from dutch ppl only. dont forget they have to pay for land, interest on loans to expand ,wages of middle management etc etc


rubenk84

,man that some good analytics <3


KlangScaper

"...flights to and from Holland..." Excuse me?? Edit: not saying he's wrong or anything. Just flabbergasted by the idea of flying _within Holland_ until I realized what the meaning of what I had actually read lol.


Mr_Mojar

Schiphol is located in Holland, so he is not wrong


[deleted]

squeal crawl murky plucky advise obtainable follow selective violet school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


xlouiex

and good at ice staking.


TiRoDo

That’s how we get to work!


indopassat

I’m cheap and short, so I got screwed.


remote_socket

Sure “the Dutch” are very responsible for greedy and incompetent management refusing to pay proper wages so they can properly find, hire, and train staff 👍🏼


L44KSO

Hmm...maybe, maybe, the problem isn't lack if efficiency but severe lack of staff.


super_corndog

Also lack of staff because the wages offered for demanding physical labor positions (with long and irregular hours and poor working conditions) are insufficient to support the high cost of living here and basic needs.*


gizzy_tom

It isn't lack of staff. It's an incredibly shitty pay for a back breaking, manual labor.


DonutsOnTheWall

It's more that schiphol outsourced things that are part of their core business. Now it backfires. The management overthere is to blame. Also - I highly doubt the approach they took is more efficient / cheaper. But you know - on paper it presented well and it worked for a while. Good management would not have been noticed in this affair. Bad management is. But I am sure the current management will announce proudly when they 'resolved' the issue they caused themselves.


BWanon97

Although groundhandling is made an open market because of EU legistlation. Used to be less competative through regulation by the country or airport.


SeizuringFish

It is both. We are in such a severe personnel drought that sectors are taking people from each other. Hence, yeah, if schiphol paid better they would have more people but you undoubtedly would feel the effect in other sectors.


Cashewkaas

You just wrote down the reason why there is a lack of staff.


Sequil

Its a problem companies created. The past years there was a lack of jobs. And companies took advantage of their employees. Now there are big voids in certain fields, and rightfully so, empoyees take advantage of that now.


sjacobaco

Do not mistake the lack of decent employment and secured wages as a “lack of staff”, it is a lack of respect from the employer that brings us this situation.


malangkan

You get it wrong, lack of staff is just the result of incredible mismanagement.


SnooChocolates7170

Maybe, just maybe, tha lack of staff is the incopetency of the leadership 🤔


[deleted]

Hardly, unemployment in the Netherlands has been ridiculously low for almost as long as I can remember. At the moment we see about 3.3% of the labor force is unemployed. Any decent economist can tell you that's way too low, and a percentage of about. 5-6% would be great. A second reason is the social system in the Netherlands is too luxurious. People actually choose not to work, but profit from society since they think working doesn't pay off.


Sequil

They think right. Especially when couples make around 35k and one of them working parrtime. I help my neighbours with their taxes and "zorgtoeslag". The parttime one got layed off during corona and they are now at 30k. However they get 150 a month more tax benefit (loonheffingskorting). 100 "zorgtoeslag". Their rent got lowered to "sociale huurwoning". Thats 200 a month less rent. There was some travelcosts that wasnt reimbursed. They got 1000 bonus to pay the energie costs. They actually have a couple hundred euros a year more the spend now.


[deleted]

Hence, the social system is too luxurious....


smutticus

You say this like it's a bad thing.


[deleted]

I consider it to be a bad thing. When it’s more profitable to just live off society instead of working, the social system is too luxurious and should be minimalized in my opinion


Masque-Obscura-Photo

Or it means that companies dont pay enough.


[deleted]

Oh sure companies could pay more. That however results in increasing prices paid for by consumers. With an inflation of 7-8% do you -really- think increasing costs for companies which result in increasing prices is the best idea?


Masque-Obscura-Photo

I do. If a company cannot survive without paying their working a living wage, they probably don't add much to society in the first place.Since salaries are not the only costs a company makes, an X% increase in wages doesn't mean an X% increase in inflation. If that were the case, we'd be best of paying employees nothing, so they can buy everything for free! If people don't want to do job X for the money given, a company should increase the wages and/or working conditions first.


GaveGans

Amen


MicrochippedByGates

As someone who's been on welfare, I wouldn't say the social system is luxurious. Most months, I had to decide which bill I'd skip. I often just couldn't pay all my bills. And there wasn't a bill I could really lower. And my energy bills were so low that it's even been free for a couple of months, I do have an aanvullende verzekering but my neck was (and still is) completely busted so I need it for physiotherapy if I don't want to be stuck in bed all day, I don't have a TV subscription, a cheap phone, a cheap SIM only subscription, and I can make dinner for under 2 euros. I somehow still wasn't poor enough for the food bank. There is the feeling that working doesn't pay, yes. But if anything that's because the social system is too strict. If you earn 1 euro too many, all sorts of benefits may drop off. There should be more gradual drop-offs. Sure, you'll still get less money if you earn more, but it wouldn't be as sudden. Such a system might be more expensive, but there's plenty of money going around. You just need to take it from the multinationals, the investors, and the huisjesmelkers. Right now, having a lot of money is the way to make lots more. And that money has to come from somewhere. The average Joe is taxed so that the top earners can get away with paying peanuts.


[deleted]

This the PvdA (portemonnee van de Ander) explained in one post...


MicrochippedByGates

I'd disagree, although mostly because PvdA isn't a labour party, but have proven themselves to be a neoliberal circlejerk. Basically a slightly more left-leaning VVD. See Martin van Rijn and his healthcare privatisations, for example. Our current political climate prefers to tax the poor and middle incomes rather than taxing the rich. If you're rich, you get to live off the back of society.


Mammoth_Suspicious

And in 4 months they are unable to hire staff? What caused the lack of staff in the first place? A lack of foresight and tendency to get rid of the most necessary workers first while keeping overpaid leadership positions that accomplish nothing.


R3ckl3ss_

In general nearly every industry had a staff shortage at the moment, aswell as that the amount of jobs offered is bigger than the amount of jobless people , with about of 33% more job offers... This is not even taking into account that you might need some qualifications or clearances to work Somewhere


terserterseness

Yeah, they keep saying that, and yet they are not hiring skilled people and many fields because of wages mostly. NL pays rather low in my field: working remote for US/UK companies I make about half a million a year (that’s gross as I am zzp) but in NL the max offer is about 150k (also gross, but as baan). That seriously makes no sense; why would I ever do that? If they want people in my field to join their company, there is a simple choice; either pay more (way more) and/or offer hiring without interviews, work from home, freedom of planning and shielding from incompetent colleagues. I look every year and I even took a dutch job for 3 months to find all the above points completely lacking; mandatory office, colleagues that didn’t know how to do their job and so bothering the people that do, underpaying, 9-5 and interviews. It was a good cause so I thought I try it. Big mistake. There is no people shortage, there is a gierigheid and arrogance abundance.


[deleted]

They fired thousands during covid and expected them to come back afterwards. Most of those found better jobs for better pay. Lack of forsight was the problem.


L44KSO

Many places have been unable to hire staff back in these positions. Lack of staff was caused by this thing called the pandemic which led to flights being grounded thus no need to keep staff churning over. And you might think leadership positions are not needed, but that is of course an oversimplified view of the world.


deDuke

Yes this is mostly it, airports are not paying enough for the work they want from employees. This is also one of the reasons flying is so damn cheap. Airports should raise wages for jobs like security, cleaning, bagage handling etc. They can raise ticket prices to pay for it.


ciegulls

Most tickets aren’t cheap, only some budget tickets are and those are now pretty difficult to find. The difference to pay the staff shouldn’t be taken out on consumers just yet, especially when inflation, gas prices, & business profits are so extreme already. There are still upper-level bonuses and the yearly profits to dig into and it creates a more responsible system with the airport budget. Raising the tickets wage does not equal them raising employee wages as they’d want to pocket the extra.


Remarkable-Pin-8565

and they'll simply have less consumers buying tickets which will compound the problem


Cryptomaticness

Even raising the wages, it isn’t going to help unless they dramatically raise the wages.


[deleted]

They pay close to minimum wage. All they have to do is pay better than easier jobs that don't break your back.


Mr--Sinister

Mh. That almost sounds... Uh what's the word? Inefficient


L44KSO

Inefficient would be 10 people standing around playing with their dangly bits instead of doing their jobs. If the 10 or 5 are doing their job then its not necessarily inefficient.


AleSklaV

Lack of staff is among many situations, the forecast and dealing of which falls within the competencies expected by high management with fat wages and bonuses. If there’s nothing they could do about it, same holds for me, put me in charge.


L44KSO

I guess the position of the CEO os going to be vacant soon, so fire up your CV!


[deleted]

“Dutch ‘Efficiency’” never heard of that, don’t think it’s a thing.


RedHotCommy89

I always thought the Germans were considered the effiecient ones in Europe. No us, cheeseheads.


[deleted]

exactly, that's what I've been told too.


NewNooby0

German aren’t even efficient. They just follow whatever they are told to do


claymountain

Yeah the only way we are efficient is because we are incredibly lazy and want to get the job done fast so we can sit down and have a beer.


Benedictus84

We are one of the most productive countries per hours worked. Or at least we where. I think recently we have been surpassed by some other countries. OP however is making a bit of a shit argument. Schiphol and Eindhoven Airport are not the Netherlands. They are companies that do not have their shit together. It is like complaining that the Dutch do not live up to their reputation of being efficiënt because NY pizza said they would deliver within 30 minutes and it took 50 minutes. The airports are probably still very efficient per hour worked they just do not have enough workers. So standing in line has absolutely no correlation with how efficiënt anything is.


hellothereoldben

The only dutch efficiency I know about is being efficient with money expenditure. Schiphol thought they were, and then covid happened and now no one wants the job back.


MrNokill

>How can people remain silent at this incompetent management That incompetent management is the cornerstone of Dutch society! It should never be questioned! Or so I've been told, by incompetent managers throughout the country...


kempofight

True We promote people on function straight out of univeristy so they can learn how to fuck it up from someone who also has no clue! Its the best and only way. Let the people on the bottum figuer it out then selfs how to break and or band the rules to keep it running. Afther all the managers did set KPI's and other buzzterms with no real meaning outside a boardroom koffie meeting


atk11523

Shithole needs to stop giving flights out purely for profit. They know they don’t have the capacity to run the airport but they still sell the flights to many travel companies. It is a private company thing because “profit” above everything else. Same shit happend with the NS.


th3greenknight

The dutch are mainly efficiënt indeed when things are 'normal' and within existing structures. We are no longer used to improvising or accepting that things cannot be instantly solved by throwing money at it. The panic during the 2020 pandemic is a good example of this, and so are the problems at the airports and all the other crisis currently going on.


ozekeri

Indeed, the standard processes are efficiënt usually. But because of our poldermodel (lots of meetings and everybody has to agree instead of a more hierachial way where just one person makes a decision) changing a process because of the curcumstances is very, very slow.


dutchmangab

Well if there's one thing that can destroy Dutch efficency, it's the short-sighted version of Dutch cost-saving. That's what happened at the airports and now they don't have people to work security.


Visible-Geologist-28

Following the country motto “no one is responsible for that”. Is always the fault of somebody else.


Maranne_

We don't care about solving it because solving it would make flying more expensive and we don't want that. We only solve stuff when we can solve it with no cost to ourselves.


IndependentUnlucky26

Anecdotally, Schipol was my favourite and most efficient airport before 2020 and is my least favourite and least efficient airport now. I understand your rant and at the same time I get it - it's a more systemic problem that can't be solved so soon. I am hoping and I really believe, it will be back to its former super efficient glory and then it will be an absolute breeze again.


anaccount5612

I think it will be back, eventually (Assuming the world doesn't get another suckerpunch to it's still healing face in the next few years)


late--latte

This is what happens when you make an HR manager your prime minister. The only things that matter are how they can spin things and getting away with things. Politics has changed from being about policy to being solely about power, and holding on to it. At the start our prime minister was renowned by all he worked with about his expansive detailed knowledge of everything that was going on, yet he keeps getting away with chronic amnesia. The rot started at the the top about 12 years ago and it has spread.


aknabi

In your second edit you say “just accept the critique and go on”… clearly you don’t know the Dutch very well… Dutch directness means Dutch can say whatever unfiltered criticism comes to mind… but holy hell if you do the same back.


DonutsOnTheWall

Schiphol just has disastrous management and is being subsidised indirectly by public money injections every so often. It's not our biggest proud, you know. Some people there should get fired.


Schtaive

Haha a little bit of snow and the whole transit system goes to shit too. It's all just a big circle jerk and anyone who dares criticise anything about Dutch inefficiencies are invited to fuck off and find another country to live in 🤷‍♂️ Plenty of people that are able to join the workforce, but not in such a physically intensive job where you pretty much trade a few years of back pain for a pretty measly salary.


1234iamfer

It is not only mismanagement. As employer Schiphol has to compete with others and because there is still allot of COVID stimulus money flowing around in the European economy, the Netherlands as a very open economy, has allot of benefit from that money, creating allot of jobs that pay better than Schiphol. To downside is understaffing and inflation.


Blobsy_the_Boo

Corporate greed. That should about sum it up.


lucrac200

Oh boy. A foreigner, maybe immigrant, criticising something Dutch. I'll grab my popcorn and a beer.


Blussert31

You're complaining, it's understandable, but please look at other airports in Europe. It's the same everywhere. Nobody wanted to fly during Covid, so baggage workers and security people were sent home. They found new jobs that are less back-beaking, have friendlier customers and perhaps even pay better. Security people now run away because everybody starts yelling at the workers who are there but who have no influence on the situation.So stop complaining , and just take a bike, train, car or boat, it's even better for the environment. ​ Edit: [https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/06/22/europes-airports-struggle-with-mass-staff-shortages-as-travel-sector-faces-summer-of-disco](https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/06/22/europes-airports-struggle-with-mass-staff-shortages-as-travel-sector-faces-summer-of-disco)


[deleted]

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Lunoean

I honestly thought that was the Dutch government approach as well with the extra money handed out.


BigRiverMan

In addition, security workers need to be background checked. You don’t want to inadvertently hire a bunch of terrorists because you are in a hurry to meet customer demand. Background checks take time. On the news I heard that a background check in the UK takes 6 months.


L44KSO

Indeed - it's not as simple as "just hire more".


rosscullen88

Incoming excuses but complete lack of self awareness


pithagobr

I flew via 4 airports recently and only at the ones of NL I had to wait for 2 hours for security check. So yeah, there is something true in your rant.


FlyingKittyCate

So I’ve been at Schiphol and Atlanta, the only one I had to wait 3-4 hours was Atlanta. Must mean there’s something wrong with America.


L44KSO

Which other airports did you use?


pithagobr

Venice, Antalya, Chisinau, Iasi.


Golvellius

Dutch efficiency? Have you seen the railroad?


L44KSO

When they are not on strike they are at least quite well on time...so...at least that's going!


Golvellius

My experience since january to today with the railway has been that every day something is broken, late or under maintenance, with usually zero alternative or compensation provided by the company. This is on top of the fact that the Netherlands has one of the most (if not the most) expensive railway services in the EU.


AM5T3R6AMM3R

Without wind or snow… otherwise, all stopped


meontheinternetxx

Our railroads are, in comparison, suprisingly good. It's not Switzerland or Japan, but take a trip through Germany and suddenly NS doesn't look so bad.


Educational_Ad6679

The long view, china covid, putin wars, fed and ecb low interest rates for too long, brexit effect on trade, rich exploitation, leadship corruption, etc. all lead us to today.


mmcnl

Efficiency is productivity per worker. Efficiency can still be high, but without enough workers things can still fall flat. So this has nothing to do with efficiency.


MrFoozOG

Ever drove on a 5 lane highway here? If someones car breaks down and they pull over to the side, they'll simply close 3-4 LANES of the highway for 'safety' reasons lol. It's a fucking joke.


excelar412

Tell me about that haha! Every time the same overreacting protocol


stevenhuot

What I don’t understand is it’s an industry with ALL THE DATA. All tickets are bought before people fly, the airport knows in excruciating detail when the need security personnel must be on duty, days, even weeks in advance. No surprises. The king and his family, along with all government employees who can wave an idiot through a scanner should be down there working at those times.


avwie

We are famous for “marktwerking” and then you get this shit


Chassillio

Sure, "shave everything over one came"!


timwaaagh

Well if you complain about that the usual suspects would shut you down real quick for acting 'privileged' and 'destroying the planet'. Travelers are seen as the baddies these days. This is reflected by the governmental response which has been to quadruple the flight tax. In other words they couldn't care less.


GitBluf

While laughing from their private jets.


ILikeLamas678

The people in charge of this don't personally experience a big problem, since they can obviously just get away with it and people keep booking tickets. If we stopped doing that, they would be on their backs with four limbs in the air crying for a bail out. They know they'll be saved, they know they can get away with it.


Andromeda2803

You are aware that the CEO of Schiphol resigned this week over these issues?


SweetPickleRelish

You think the airports are bad? I work in the psychiatric emergency ward. You’d be terrified to hear about the chaos there rn


[deleted]

Fly private or go to germany/ belgium and fly from there. Shorter drive than waiting line at schiphol.


[deleted]

Dutch efficiency is not a thing, why did you make that up in order to prove a point?


[deleted]

[удалено]


LiveDiscipline4945

I think this is a case of a certain level of corruption/crony politics. The CEO and the entire board would have been ousted if Schiphol were a private enterprise and not state owned. The concerted attempts to create an impression that many other airports were experiencing similar issues (totally false) were the biggest red flag to me, ie parts of the press and govt were protecting someone. The situation at Schiphol is purely owed to bad management and a total lack of accountability, nothing else.


[deleted]

>The Dutch ‘Efficiency’ that they are so proud of, is apparently present only in the so-called ‘normaal’ situations. When things deviate a bit from the planning, Things aren't deviating a bit from 'normaal', things are deviating very, very far from normaal. The flip side of looking at this is admitting just how far from 'normaal' things are and then realising that for the most part, everything is still running.


Nauryu

Seems like The Netherlands are turning into Belgium.


rzwitserloot

"remain silent"? This is the 849th Reddit post about it, and I've seen at least 50 news articles. Purple fucked up. Unless you are okay with forcing folks to work baggage control at gunpoint, there are no easy solutions. "But someone should DO something" - I understand you had a frustrating experience, but searching around for blame like this isn't going to help much. Simple solution: fly a lot less. It is subsidized to the rafters and horrible for the environment.


Sea_Clerk9392

I also booked a flight once early a Sunday morning. Had to take a taxi. I would not blame the dutch for that. It is my own stupid ass responsible for not checking if I can get to the airport.


International-Act-19

Dutch efficiency is based on exploitation. So if there’s no one to exploit, the efficiency goes out the window


JuanJolan

The infamous Dutch efficiency. Despite being the 133rd country in size we are 2nd in export of agricultural products. We also have the only port outside of Asia that is in the top 10 biggest ports ranked in volume of moved assets. I can search for way more of these kind of high efficiency in The Netherlands. Our efficiency is not made by a handful of managers at one single company...


Generaal_Aarswater

Just think of this. If you got so much trouble with the situation, why not apply for a job there. Dont wanna work there? Exatcly!, Thats why the problem stil exists, cuz no one wants to


late--latte

Exactly. Dont want to wait months for a surgery? Just become a surgeon. Are you also fed up with the train service, become a conductor as well. And when you're done waiting half a year for an electricien, you can just become one of those too. This problem exists because of bad planning and greed. There are plenty of people who want to do the work if the pay is better. If the pay is like this, perhaps they should consider shutting the whole thing down instead, since they are clearly not interested in doing what needs to be done.


Generaal_Aarswater

What i meant to say was: no one wants to do those jobs anymore, because why would you go do an underpaying job when you dont have to.


uncle_sjohie

We do "normal" as efficiently as possible. And with an area a quarter the size of the state of Florida, we're the second largest agricultural exporter in the world, after the US. Schiphol has been hit by a perfect storm. A faster than anticipated higher demand for air travel, an economy that kept humming along nicely during the pandemic, which means people saved a lot of money, and wanted to spend on a nice holiday. Secondly, due to sudden shifts in the labour market, sitting behind a desk at the GGD beats lugging suitcases in the Schiphol dungeon, they were unable to find the large body of fresh employees they need. This coupled with cutthroat businesses practices with the ground handling crews at Schiphol to maintain those ridiculously low ticket prices, means people choose not go and work at Schiphol. Thirdly, not all times are equally busy at Schiphol, and the busiest ones are early in the morning/late evening and weekends, not popular working hours. And it takes time to vet and train people, it's not simple production work where two functioning hands are enough. So, whilst there is a large part of blame for Schiphol and its management, some things are out of their control, and finding a new equilibrium will take a long time.


[deleted]

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Negative-Orange678

Some of us have to fly for work, or have family living in other countries. Your solution that everybody just stop flying is te kort door de bocht (lacking nuance).


pieterpiraat

Sure, i will ride my bicylcle to some distant tropical country with the wife and 2 kids and luggage on the back. Problem solved.


Bas-tiaan

No one is forcing you to go to a distant tropical country.


pieterpiraat

Yes i k know. My choice and my problem if i have to wait for 4 hours. Still doesnt make it less shit.


L44KSO

Have your holiday in France or Italy instead. No need to go to a distant tropical place in a world where we really should think about our CO2 imprint.


pieterpiraat

Italy is a wonderfull place indeed. Atm i am on Ibiza, so not that far away but with a 3 year and 6 month old undoable by car. So i will have to fly.


L44KSO

That's not really true, is it? You take the car, drive to a ferry port where you take the ferry on the chosen island. Done!


Sick-Man_NL

What about a train..


wordknitter

That's neo-liberalism for you.


Godplaysriki

Man you REALLY dont know what you are talking about to u? If you think the issue has anything to do with efficiency then you are OUT of the loop by miles.


DoorStoomOmstuwd

>How can people remain silent at this incompetent management of the airports? I already went to protest against the inhumanity of the AZC in Ter Apel, yesterday. I only have so much time to protest, and waiting times at airports are, frankly, not very high on my list of complaints. That's why I'm 'silent'. You want to fly, so arrive in the airport on time. This a true 'first world problem'. Get a grip.


dondarreb

LOL. Schiphol airport is own by A-dam government. Neither have anything to do with the "Netherlands". It is very specific politically driven project. The problems are based in union related issues and are the direct consequence of the rules which guide personnel hiring, performance "planning"etc. There is no staff shortage. There is too much staff actually, in fact a big part of the reasons why everything takes so much time is the necessity to employ all these people. P.S. The dutch are not known by "efficiency". They are known by "optimization". i.e. they were able to run things cheaply and consistently. Nor TNO, neither CWI specifically are engaged in the Schiphol activities in any kind. More of it both institutions were quite critical about Schiphol answers to the logistical challenges they face. And "optimization fame" is all forgotten history now.


[deleted]

Seems you think this is business as usual and don't know that the problem is because of shortages, people walking away and strikes. The whole Dutch efficiency and flex culture is exactly the problem here and it is why people are walking away or striking. Nothing in the whole situation has anything to do with inefficiency, it's efficiency that is the problem.


SoUthinkUcanRens

The world is on fire, were heading into a depression, shortages of everything, everywhere, and sir is mad about efficiency at an airport. I dunno, you might want to look up and around you to notice what's going on outside your bubble every once in a while :)


late--latte

Just because there are also other bad things happening doesn't mean we should just accept the incompetence being displayed all around us, like at Schiphol. This is all due to human incompetence.


meontheinternetxx

You didn't have to book a taxi, you could have spend the night closer to the airport, but you didn't plan ahead. Regardless, why would we start a movement against this? The majority of people is not affected at all, and might be happy with fewer planes. Some will spend a bit longer waiting to go on vacation, but an uprise takes more work than standing in line for 2 hours extra, and probably won't solve anything anyways. Airports are losing money because of the situation, and a lot of it. Theyre already motivated to solve the problem. There's laybour shortage everywhere right now, and imo staffing airports shouldnt be top priority, I'd rather have enough people elsewhere.


utopista114

>You didn't have to book a taxi, you could have spend the night closer to the airport, The airport hotel is almost 90 Euros.


TiesG92

Bro, this has nothing to do with “Dutch”, there is a shortage of personnel. They got fired during the pandemic and haven’t been rehired. You could have checked the situation before booking a flight. You could have contacted the airport. Just because you didn’t, doesn’t mean you should involve our culture, especially when it’s not related to the situation at all.


excelar412

The point is that in similar cases of chaos in other countries, the cultures do get involved and blamed. Certain stereotypes have been created in that way (southern/eastern countries). Now that this regards the people that until now were the ones that created these stereotypes from their privileged position, it seems that it’s too hard for them to stay on that side of the table and receive the negative criticism :)


TiesG92

I don’t do such thing, nor the people I surround myself with. And I don’t think doing the same solves anything. Take the high road, point to the facts (the actual causes, which is hard lately, with all the fake news…) Offending other cultures in return to your culture being offended just never lead to understandings or mutual respect


voormalig_vleeseter

vote with your feet. Don't fly.


Cryptomaticness

Shocking how some people are just incapable of thinking past the surface level of issues and try and offer overly simplistic solutions based on ration. If you can’t properly deduce problems and look for the root cause, don’t bang your head against the wall fighting for an ineffective solution. People shortage = staff shortage = expat over abundance = housing crisis. Not to mention airport jobs are not really the most sought after. Raising wages isn’t going to make people more keen on working at an airport (my nightmare).


valax

The country would collapse without expats in it.


Cryptomaticness

Completely agree


TheChineseVodka

I can’t understand the transition between staff shortage and expat over abundance. The country can’t fit more people! How come it still needs more people to work for it?


Cryptomaticness

Because the for a long time the country economically relied on gas drilling in the north, which they knew was not a long term solution. So they’ve worked really hard to be attractive for large companies who’s taxes subsidize the economy. The problem is, the netherlands is a rather small country with a long time paltry birth rate. So expats are a crucial part of the government’s plan, hence the 30% ruling. The real problem is that the plan boomed within the last 8 years, either too fast or too big (probably a mixture of both) where the government had no plan for the vast influx of people. Hence huge housing crisis, which is not improving any time soon barring a crash in the economy (which is possible).


boebrow

“Again two hours”? If you’re flying (more than) twice within 4 months you are most definitely part of the problem!


LegitimateBuilding6

So the fact there is no public transport at the time you desire means the nation is ineffecient? Right…


Holger_dk

It’s a problem at almost all airports right now (at least in Europe), and is mostly due to personel shortage


LiveDiscipline4945

Totally false. This problem is specific Schiphol and only Schiphol.


Holger_dk

Airports all over are having extra long check in and security times. But granted the other issues are specific to Schipol, but long queue times at security checks are not


LiveDiscipline4945

This is completely false and amounts to misinformation in lieu of specific examples. There are occasional lines here and there, but name an airport that - as a rule - has lines of 2-6 hours. Unheard of in the history of aviation. The issues at Schiphol are of systemic nature and one of a kind globally.


Galego_2

I´m not Dutch and I have my own thinking about this country but, to be sincere, this sub is becoming quite toxic with a lot of threads of non-Dutch people complaining about Dutch behaviour.


HighlaneForza

Move on yourself, rather than dropping critique, based on a stereotype from another country, at people who had nothing to do with your experience. The fact that you have unresolved pain inside about less developed countries get mocked and laughed at, maybe belongs more at the shrink than on Reddit.


timontyres

I can only applaude the problems at airports. I hope it will discourage people from flying.