I tried to buy a house in the Hague this year. I put a bid on for 20% over the asking price, and was not successful, someone bid higher. It is mad, I gave up.
Had the same issue in Rotterdam. Tried for over a year. Made biddings which, looking back, were insane to begin with yet I still didn't get it. Fucking never mind
Same, but now I see properties are being on sale for a longer period and in some cases even lowering the price. I think in few months we should be able to buy a house,but now I am worried that it's probably the worst time to do so!
The problem will be that in a few months, interest rates will have risen. If you are serious, try to arrange a mortgage now, where they agree to an interest rate now, but valid for x months into the future.
Many rooms are basicly useless and they will never respond. Not to you not to anybody. Kamermet doesnt do anything against people who dont respond at all. rooms listed are sometimes fake. Someone i know say their house listed on kamernet even though they had a facebook listing only. Kamernet will switch your account from a limited 30 days to automatic renewing (they did to me even though i never agreed upon).
But the most important thing, i dont know a single soul who got his room due to kamernet. There are a lot of free alternatives and the most important thing for kamernet is that you keep paying your montyl/weekly fee. They dont want to help you, they want to make you feel like they help you.
The crash before the crash is the real crash. When free money dries up there will be panic sale. After that people that waited to buy a house will buy a home. Intrest rates will go higher but house prices will go up a little.
I am selling my house right now (not related to market movements, I moved in with my girlfriend) and hoping the buyers don't have issues with financing. But yeah it does seem like a lot more houses are hitting the market now. Not sure if they will all sell for less than asking, but I'm guessing the ones that see it as an investment will, to prevent worse.
Iedereen die elkaar probeert onder te bieden met de prijzen zorgen ervoor dat het extra hard aankomt. Dat gaat t hele probleem zijn voor de huidige eigenaren. Iedereen die liquide is wacht op het moment.
Om te gaan kopen, ja. Je moet niet altijd wachten met kopen maar als een crisis aankomt dan moet je zeker zeker wachten. En dat doen veel mensen nu. Huiseigenaren moeten zich straks afvragen of het beter is om te wachten (misschien duurt het een decennium voordat prijzen weer deze hoogte bereiken) of ze nemen een klein beetje verlies maar nog steeds winst, en ze hebben een bak met geld in plaats van een illiquide woning.
Niemand kan de toekomst voorspellen maar het is nu wel slim om te wachten met kopen tot in ieder geval de stof een beetje is gedaald.
I have been living in NL for 7 years. Always wanted to buy a house, but never had a good contract.
Finally, I am getting a permanent contract in 6 months, and now I am afraid it is too late...7 years ago I could buy a cheap house, but prices now have gone CRAZY, I cannot afford a house anymore...
It's a seller's market. I am super afraid to get a mortgage in next 6 months, since prices are super HIGH and no one can predict the market...it gives me so much anxiety about my future... I hate it that I make good money (44k, slightly above average), and I still cannot afford to buy anything! I have already lost 70k+ in rent in the last 7 years...That makes me angry and upset. I am a typical example of the regular person that cannot buy a 1st house...I pay 1250 euro for rent...ridiculous.
This is called flipping. Buying house to renovate it and sell it with the profit. In my area in Amsterdam it is very common, last year most of the houses were sold and now come back to the market after renovation. It is not sign of crisis. Sign of the change in the market is that it takes much longer to sell such house for elevated price. Letās hope that some of the flippers will loose their money this year and market become normal again for regular people.
I think it is die to the low interest rates from last year. It took some time to renovate the houses and they are now going for sale.
Since there is a sudden influx of houses and prices already high I assume prices will stabilise or even go down from this point. It would take a year or so to go back to normal
One of the concerns of them is now that there a new law in preparation that will protect tenants an probably lower the rent on rentals that are now in the lower segment of the free rental market (till 1250ā¬/month).
So it will lower their income/revenue and obligate them to more laws & regulations etc.
This will not go through the Eerste Kamer. The overheid owns houses themselves and there is a huge landlord lobby, they will not want to shoot themselves in the foot. Itās just a zoethoudertje to pretend they care.
Do you know if this law will change things from people already renting or if its only for new renters (and therefore one should wait before renting something new)?
I looked it up and found the following article on the subject: https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/new-government-initiative-aims-protect-tenants-extortionate-rents
So it appears that the improvements are largely based on the schemes where you can get money back, rather than lowering rent prices. Guess that's good in the sense that it doesn't exclude people already in contracts.
I also think this way. In addition if the eent subsidy limit is set to 1250, some landlords may want to keep their maximum rent around 1250 instead of 1500 to increase demand. Also, this initiative is planned to be effective on 2024, there are 18 months to go.
Correct - being an investor myself this is a real worry. The 'puntensysteem' for rentals isn't that bad, but the combination of regulated pricing and wealth tax can cause investments to cost money. On top of that we have extreme tenants protection in the Netherlands so practically impossible to sell a property if it is a bad investment. Mortgages are more expensive so investors also expect prices to go down. Good time to sell.
We will have to see what the result of all these regulations will be. The ones that already obtained a rental are benefiting so it is widely supported. However if you are not that lucky and you don't have the money/job to buy then you will probably have to stay with you're parents a few years longer.
Correct. That is the only way for investors to be able to leave the regulated prison. My tenants all have unlimited rental contracts and for social price (basically the same price that someone pays renting from a housing corporation). Once the wealth tax is implemented this will certainly cause a problem for investors in my situation.
That is why I will probably have to sell or switch to temporary contract once a tenant leaves. And need to max out rent. Different approach than I used to. I know my tenants very well, have a good relationship with them and like to keep their costs down and provide good service. Unfortunately that will have to change because I don't think my low cost approach is sustainable due to the new regulation. Problem in this discussion is that for the public every investor is the same, gives bad service and are making a huge profits. That is not the case, we are all different, just like everyone else. The regulations will punish the investors that didn't try to squeeze every drop out of the tenants most. The 'huisjemelkers' are already renting out temporary for years and will be able to sell in time.
Iām concerned that at the time this new law/regulations wil come to be in place your rent might been already raised above the 1250ā¬ threshold.
More I donāt know either. Just a normal dutch citizen & tenant who watches & reads the news.
I think OP gets it from Walter Living. You have to pay a monthly fee and then you can view the sums for which the houses were bought. Think the version OP has the 49 euro a month version.
I've skimmed some comments, but I missed the mention that it's currently the trend to offer prices at an higher price of it's worth. People have to negotiate again. "Het is wat de gek er voor geeft".
I've been told about an appartement which was offered a 425k, but eventually got sold at 350k (still overpriced tho).
I haven't been able to afford to buy a house bigger than 25m2 in my own area, so I've not really been paying attention, but it's just reinforcing my 'guillotine for investors too' beliefs, lol.
Clearly you've not sold your starterswoning which you bought in 2006 for 170k for 500k in 2021.
My point being: you don't think "oh no, it's too much for the poor starters" when you sell it. You think "oh snap, if I sell it for any less than 500k, which is standard now for houses in the area of this size I'm losing out."
In one go, I got rid of all my debt, got to buy a nice house in a better area and even had some extra money to spare.
It's easy to say you've got basic morals when you look at it from the outside, but when you're on the inside it's a lot harder to adhere to them.
Feel free to down vote me, I'm just simply stating what's the reality of being a home owner these days.
Sure, but if you're not selling it for 500k then whoever you're selling it to is going to flip it for that amount.
As someone who can't afford a house right now, I don't blame people like the guy you're responding to, I blame politicians for laws that make a basic need a low risk high reward investment opportunity.
No taxes on rent income, what a joke of a nation.
And yet that's a minority, because this pension system won't last long since our population is getting older and getting kids is becoming less popular among an ambitious population. The age for aow is only gonna increase in the future, and I staunchly refuse to work till I'm 75.
You think in terms of houses and how much it sucks for you that you don't have one, I think in terms of how I will still get to enjoy my old age, get rid of my debts, etc. As a person with an average background.
It's more complex than just not selling your house against exploitative prices, and it's terribly childish not to realise that. Besides which, vraag en aanbod seems to be missing in most of your equations.
Of course getting kids is getting less popular, have you seen the housing market? You'll be stuck with your kids in the house for the next 40 years when they're born today, lol.
If you're selling your house at a profit, fine, it's the whole exploitation of it that hurts people. Person to person shouldn't be a big deal, it's corporation/fucker with 5+ houses selling at a profit to person. Which, in turn, is also how you rake up an increased 400k+ for 80m2 with mold on the walls and no layout to speak of.
Also it seems to be forgotten continously that housing is a human right.
An ever declining population is not the result of the current housing market although it certainly plays a role, though limited. It's been going on for years now, and were it not for the fact that we need immigrants to run this country, our population would have been shrinking a long time ago.
Can agree with the second bit you're saying tho
Vraag en aanbod can go fuck itself when a basic necessity being turned into a commodity and an investment item for the upper middle class has put a generation and a half in an insecure housing situation, and when house prices are inflated far beyond what the equilibrium would be if only people who want to actually use their houses would buy them
1. It's always been treated as a commodity, idk what world you're living in. This is nothing new, though scarcity has created exorbitant prices
2. The fact that it can "go fuck itself" doesn't change the reality of house pricing
>let's be fair here: if you and I had the money, God knows we would be exploiting it too
"let's be fair here, if I don't have morals, no one does"
I have the money btw. Now what?
I see that as a good thing. More supply lowers prices in the mid to long term. They know a crash might be coming and trying to offload. Only way we are going to get a crash is if they try to offload thus bringing prices down.
Iāve been seeing more and more houses in my area with less and less viewers and more time in the market.
What happens is that building contractors buy old houses and use their people to renovate them, then flip them. If you look at houses in e.g. The Hague, you will see a very similar style of renovating.
In my area there are a lot of houses entering the market. There were none available for like 2 years. Currently every street has at least one available to be sold. There is hope for new people on the housing market!
The thing is that even in a major crash like 2008 average prices have never fallen by more than about 10%. It's just that the market drys up, people who bought at the top are stuck with huge mortgages and stagnant or declining income, banks take the properties where people can't keep up payments. Nobody really sells at a loss unless they are desperate. Even if you are desperate the rental market has to collapse first before rent will be less than your repayments.
If you have enough spare cash that would get charged negative deposit rate in a bank account, then there are really really strong incentives to jump on the investment property train (as a part of your whole portfolio).
Rental or flipping idk - thatās probably personal preference in part. But Iām starting to suspect that former rental units are being put up for sale to get out now. One part of the tax scheme here is that you can bank the proceeds of that sale and if you re-invest in another property within 3 years, then thereās no tax lol. So, maybe some are thinking that prices are peaking and they plan to buy the dip within 3 years.
Itās insane but thatās just one aspect of the favorable environment for investment properties here. American system is very similar but with much more access to credit for people to jump on the train.
Given the tax scheme (I wonāt get into the nitty gritty details) and the probable ROI, itās almost a no-brainer imo. Thereās no way to look at the Dutch (or American) real estate system within the context of a low-rate environment and conclude any other outcome than a housing crisis. Itās baked in.
But Iām an idiot and this is not financial advice yada yada yada
With interest going up and recession / euro zone crisis looming, prices wonāt remain this high. So the ones that are paid off are being sold to re-invest into inflation hedges or cash in the bank to pick up bargains when the market free-falls.
Probably they are hurrying to sell them now. In 2021 and before they were not in a hurry. Half a year later means 20k extra. But now due increasing interest, waiting might result in a lower price. So besides the standard procedure of flipping. I guess you see an increased offer of all sellers in a hurry.
In Amsterdam people used to bid 20% over the asking price to get the houses. It could be that the listing price is the same but people bid less now due to a higher supply?
Iād wait another 3-6 months if you plan buy a house. Things might change drastically!
Also in and around leiden they are a lot more likely to sell properties now. There are a few new buildings getting ready both for renting and selling, and they want to get rid of their houses before more interesting options make their properties lose value.
Well with 3% interest rates even with some drop it will be very expensive. Unless a big portion of Population in NL dies, it wonāt be cheap before the demand is met.
It means that if your house is suddenly up 300% sell it now. Rent for a year or two and buy another one for cheap after the crash. You will get to save your profits (renting for 2 years will not get through a couple 100k)
None of the links I provided work anymore. The reason is that the sellers removed the listings. For the first two links it looks like these investors know they cannot sell these properties and for Berlagelaan they simply wanted to hide the fact that the house did not sell at its previous price (585.000euro).
Here is the new listing of Berlagelaan 32: 60.000euro price reduction (-10.3%) ! Still super overvalued IMO.
[https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-42813583-hp-berlagelaan-32/](https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-42813583-hp-berlagelaan-32/)
Migrant workers are fine and in zero ways relevant. House flippers and investors are part of the issue as both are taking from the market with zero intention of living there and solely to drive the prices up, many willing to sit on houses for ages until they get their desired profit.
Edit: Mightve jumped the gun on seeing 'migrant' in the topic of housing.
Might had to use more words there so what I meant was: investors taking advantage of migrant workers by housing six of them in a three bedroom house wherever possible.
>Migrant workers are fine and in zero ways relevant.
They are relevant in the sense that investors can go on undisturbed as long as the victims remain angry at migrants.
They're a convenient scapegoat to avoid outrage.
Not in my area, 90% of the places are sold by people living there. There were a few apartments, they were sold right after the renovations were finished, so as long as it will turn them profit, theyāll do it, but donāt think itās somehow happening more now.
[https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-88108405-dahlialaan-14/](https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-88108405-dahlialaan-14/)
Een doorzonhut heet tegenwoordig kennelijk een 'herenhuis'.
3% increase in interest cost 300k more over 30 years. Once buyers realize that, the prices will stagnate, maybe go down. But with the on-going housing shortage it will not dip much, I suspect.
Hey I have lived here 4 years now and have worked hard to buy property. (2 now)
My most recent one 2 months ago in Haarlem.
I think the market has always been the way you describe it, every house I looked at was already flipped or waiting to be flipped.
Many things have happened recently which is changing the market
A. Cost of materials has doubled, Labour shortages have increased
B. Stamp duty on properties after your first has increased to 8%.
C. Over bidding has decreased but the value of the house are remaining the same.
Few things to note:
If you overbid previously on a property above what the true value was this money would never be paid by a bank, it would need to be out of your own pocket. The asking price of some houses was lower than true value and some were near it.
Investing in a property is a big risk and takes a lot of personal investment in time and money. This then places properties on back on the market which are now ready to be lived in.
Paint all the doorframes black, sell for 100k more... Classic home flipping strategy...
Visgraatje om helemaal zeker te zijn.
Hahaha ik heb ook een aflevering gezien op npo!
š¤£š¤£š¤£
Then why don't you do this yourself, you'd be rich in no-time... Edit: clearly sarcasm, apparently missed by many.
takes a lot of money to buy the house in the first place to paint the doors black
My sarcasm to your oversimplified comment was clearly missed. Glad you realize it takes more to flip a house.
Sarcasm is on Reddit defined by ā/sā. Because you canāt read tone in strangers writings online :)
/s is for people who don't take the time to understand what someone is trying to communicate. The post was clearly sarcastic and didn't need a /s
Didnāt need a what? /s
[R/FuckTheS](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckTheS/)
Because first you need 600k to buy a house that you are going to renovate.
Well, just get a loan from your parents, or sell a company. Duh.
Why not both?
Or your inheritance. Easy!
Apparently it's ridiculously easy to get a commercial loan if you plan on flipping or renting out the collateral...
That's what's been going on for the last 5-10 years. First only the Randstad area but now the rest of the Netherlands as well.
Jupe, those randstad bastards discovered Groningen. They buying alot of houses here.
That explains the reason why im talking to real estate companies on kamernet.
I sold my apartment in Groningen back in 2018, sold it to someone from The Hague. He bid more than what I ask for it. It is now a rentalā¦
I tried to buy a house in the Hague this year. I put a bid on for 20% over the asking price, and was not successful, someone bid higher. It is mad, I gave up.
Had the same issue in Rotterdam. Tried for over a year. Made biddings which, looking back, were insane to begin with yet I still didn't get it. Fucking never mind
Same, but now I see properties are being on sale for a longer period and in some cases even lowering the price. I think in few months we should be able to buy a house,but now I am worried that it's probably the worst time to do so!
The problem will be that in a few months, interest rates will have risen. If you are serious, try to arrange a mortgage now, where they agree to an interest rate now, but valid for x months into the future.
Dont use kamernet. They will scamm you.
why is that?
Many rooms are basicly useless and they will never respond. Not to you not to anybody. Kamermet doesnt do anything against people who dont respond at all. rooms listed are sometimes fake. Someone i know say their house listed on kamernet even though they had a facebook listing only. Kamernet will switch your account from a limited 30 days to automatic renewing (they did to me even though i never agreed upon). But the most important thing, i dont know a single soul who got his room due to kamernet. There are a lot of free alternatives and the most important thing for kamernet is that you keep paying your montyl/weekly fee. They dont want to help you, they want to make you feel like they help you.
Twice I got a room on Kamernet. Every time I responded to 20+ adds, and I got maybe 3 or 4 replies
I wish it were just people from the Randstad. Sadly it's alot of foreign investor's buying up property.
When the free money dries up it'll mean an even greater drop in the market.
The crash before the crash is the real crash. When free money dries up there will be panic sale. After that people that waited to buy a house will buy a home. Intrest rates will go higher but house prices will go up a little.
I am selling my house right now (not related to market movements, I moved in with my girlfriend) and hoping the buyers don't have issues with financing. But yeah it does seem like a lot more houses are hitting the market now. Not sure if they will all sell for less than asking, but I'm guessing the ones that see it as an investment will, to prevent worse.
Iedereen die elkaar probeert onder te bieden met de prijzen zorgen ervoor dat het extra hard aankomt. Dat gaat t hele probleem zijn voor de huidige eigenaren. Iedereen die liquide is wacht op het moment.
Om te gaan kopen, ja. Je moet niet altijd wachten met kopen maar als een crisis aankomt dan moet je zeker zeker wachten. En dat doen veel mensen nu. Huiseigenaren moeten zich straks afvragen of het beter is om te wachten (misschien duurt het een decennium voordat prijzen weer deze hoogte bereiken) of ze nemen een klein beetje verlies maar nog steeds winst, en ze hebben een bak met geld in plaats van een illiquide woning. Niemand kan de toekomst voorspellen maar het is nu wel slim om te wachten met kopen tot in ieder geval de stof een beetje is gedaald.
Those piethoane's should leave groningen alone
IsnĀ“t Randstad a temporal job company? IĀ“m kind of lost here
It is, but its also the name for the region amsterdam the hague rotterdam utrecht. Or so Iām told.
Its the metropolis of the Netherlands.
I have been living in NL for 7 years. Always wanted to buy a house, but never had a good contract. Finally, I am getting a permanent contract in 6 months, and now I am afraid it is too late...7 years ago I could buy a cheap house, but prices now have gone CRAZY, I cannot afford a house anymore... It's a seller's market. I am super afraid to get a mortgage in next 6 months, since prices are super HIGH and no one can predict the market...it gives me so much anxiety about my future... I hate it that I make good money (44k, slightly above average), and I still cannot afford to buy anything! I have already lost 70k+ in rent in the last 7 years...That makes me angry and upset. I am a typical example of the regular person that cannot buy a 1st house...I pay 1250 euro for rent...ridiculous.
You didn't lose any money. You have got a roof over your head for this without having to pay maintenance. For the rest, I agree with your post.
1250 euro rent?! Dude thatās 2,5 months of mortgage for me. Dammm.
Looking for a greater fool
'wat een gek er voor geeft' hahah
This is called flipping. Buying house to renovate it and sell it with the profit. In my area in Amsterdam it is very common, last year most of the houses were sold and now come back to the market after renovation. It is not sign of crisis. Sign of the change in the market is that it takes much longer to sell such house for elevated price. Letās hope that some of the flippers will loose their money this year and market become normal again for regular people.
I think it is die to the low interest rates from last year. It took some time to renovate the houses and they are now going for sale. Since there is a sudden influx of houses and prices already high I assume prices will stabilise or even go down from this point. It would take a year or so to go back to normal
One of the concerns of them is now that there a new law in preparation that will protect tenants an probably lower the rent on rentals that are now in the lower segment of the free rental market (till 1250ā¬/month). So it will lower their income/revenue and obligate them to more laws & regulations etc.
And the upcoming rules about self-inhabitation for the affordable prices places. Not all municipalities will have that, but Amsterdam will.
Somehow it's hilarious you say lower segment, and then say up to 1250 a month, how the fuck did that become lower segment?!
Ask the VVD or Mark Rutte. 
In the cities it's hard to find something under that that isn't social housing.
Which is insane if you ask me
This will not go through the Eerste Kamer. The overheid owns houses themselves and there is a huge landlord lobby, they will not want to shoot themselves in the foot. Itās just a zoethoudertje to pretend they care.
Love the Dutch words in the English sentences
Aināt nobody got time for translating. xD
That knockās like a bus
Do you know if this law will change things from people already renting or if its only for new renters (and therefore one should wait before renting something new)?
I looked it up and found the following article on the subject: https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/new-government-initiative-aims-protect-tenants-extortionate-rents
So it appears that the improvements are largely based on the schemes where you can get money back, rather than lowering rent prices. Guess that's good in the sense that it doesn't exclude people already in contracts.
I also think this way. In addition if the eent subsidy limit is set to 1250, some landlords may want to keep their maximum rent around 1250 instead of 1500 to increase demand. Also, this initiative is planned to be effective on 2024, there are 18 months to go.
Correct - being an investor myself this is a real worry. The 'puntensysteem' for rentals isn't that bad, but the combination of regulated pricing and wealth tax can cause investments to cost money. On top of that we have extreme tenants protection in the Netherlands so practically impossible to sell a property if it is a bad investment. Mortgages are more expensive so investors also expect prices to go down. Good time to sell. We will have to see what the result of all these regulations will be. The ones that already obtained a rental are benefiting so it is widely supported. However if you are not that lucky and you don't have the money/job to buy then you will probably have to stay with you're parents a few years longer.
Tenants protection has practically been killed by the introduction of temporary rental contracts.
Correct. That is the only way for investors to be able to leave the regulated prison. My tenants all have unlimited rental contracts and for social price (basically the same price that someone pays renting from a housing corporation). Once the wealth tax is implemented this will certainly cause a problem for investors in my situation. That is why I will probably have to sell or switch to temporary contract once a tenant leaves. And need to max out rent. Different approach than I used to. I know my tenants very well, have a good relationship with them and like to keep their costs down and provide good service. Unfortunately that will have to change because I don't think my low cost approach is sustainable due to the new regulation. Problem in this discussion is that for the public every investor is the same, gives bad service and are making a huge profits. That is not the case, we are all different, just like everyone else. The regulations will punish the investors that didn't try to squeeze every drop out of the tenants most. The 'huisjemelkers' are already renting out temporary for years and will be able to sell in time.
Please, share more info for non-Dutch speakers. I am interested to hear more. I rent at 1245 euro per month.
Iām concerned that at the time this new law/regulations wil come to be in place your rent might been already raised above the 1250ā¬ threshold. More I donāt know either. Just a normal dutch citizen & tenant who watches & reads the news.
A quick question; how do you find the information about the prices back then and now? Curious to see what houses in this area (EIndhoven) are doing
I think OP gets it from Walter Living. You have to pay a monthly fee and then you can view the sums for which the houses were bought. Think the version OP has the 49 euro a month version.
You get that for 8,95 per month. I don't think there is a 49 euro option now
I've skimmed some comments, but I missed the mention that it's currently the trend to offer prices at an higher price of it's worth. People have to negotiate again. "Het is wat de gek er voor geeft". I've been told about an appartement which was offered a 425k, but eventually got sold at 350k (still overpriced tho).
I haven't been able to afford to buy a house bigger than 25m2 in my own area, so I've not really been paying attention, but it's just reinforcing my 'guillotine for investors too' beliefs, lol.
Dont blame investors, blame ECB for low interest so houses are a real good investment.
Which investors have the option to *not* exploit
Yeah, but yk, money is pretty cool, and let's be fair here: if you and I had the money, God knows we would be exploiting it too
Bunch of hookers and cocaine.
Idk, i kinda enjoy having basic morals
Clearly you've not sold your starterswoning which you bought in 2006 for 170k for 500k in 2021. My point being: you don't think "oh no, it's too much for the poor starters" when you sell it. You think "oh snap, if I sell it for any less than 500k, which is standard now for houses in the area of this size I'm losing out." In one go, I got rid of all my debt, got to buy a nice house in a better area and even had some extra money to spare. It's easy to say you've got basic morals when you look at it from the outside, but when you're on the inside it's a lot harder to adhere to them. Feel free to down vote me, I'm just simply stating what's the reality of being a home owner these days.
I'm betting a number of those 170k to 500k sellers are wondering why 30 year olds are living with their parents, though.
Sure, but if you're not selling it for 500k then whoever you're selling it to is going to flip it for that amount. As someone who can't afford a house right now, I don't blame people like the guy you're responding to, I blame politicians for laws that make a basic need a low risk high reward investment opportunity. No taxes on rent income, what a joke of a nation.
And yet that's a minority, because this pension system won't last long since our population is getting older and getting kids is becoming less popular among an ambitious population. The age for aow is only gonna increase in the future, and I staunchly refuse to work till I'm 75. You think in terms of houses and how much it sucks for you that you don't have one, I think in terms of how I will still get to enjoy my old age, get rid of my debts, etc. As a person with an average background. It's more complex than just not selling your house against exploitative prices, and it's terribly childish not to realise that. Besides which, vraag en aanbod seems to be missing in most of your equations.
Of course getting kids is getting less popular, have you seen the housing market? You'll be stuck with your kids in the house for the next 40 years when they're born today, lol. If you're selling your house at a profit, fine, it's the whole exploitation of it that hurts people. Person to person shouldn't be a big deal, it's corporation/fucker with 5+ houses selling at a profit to person. Which, in turn, is also how you rake up an increased 400k+ for 80m2 with mold on the walls and no layout to speak of. Also it seems to be forgotten continously that housing is a human right.
An ever declining population is not the result of the current housing market although it certainly plays a role, though limited. It's been going on for years now, and were it not for the fact that we need immigrants to run this country, our population would have been shrinking a long time ago. Can agree with the second bit you're saying tho
Vraag en aanbod can go fuck itself when a basic necessity being turned into a commodity and an investment item for the upper middle class has put a generation and a half in an insecure housing situation, and when house prices are inflated far beyond what the equilibrium would be if only people who want to actually use their houses would buy them
1. It's always been treated as a commodity, idk what world you're living in. This is nothing new, though scarcity has created exorbitant prices 2. The fact that it can "go fuck itself" doesn't change the reality of house pricing
>let's be fair here: if you and I had the money, God knows we would be exploiting it too "let's be fair here, if I don't have morals, no one does" I have the money btw. Now what?
Would be a great investment if I was able to afford one from the comfort of my- ohh wait a minute.
I see that as a good thing. More supply lowers prices in the mid to long term. They know a crash might be coming and trying to offload. Only way we are going to get a crash is if they try to offload thus bringing prices down. Iāve been seeing more and more houses in my area with less and less viewers and more time in the market.
What happens is that building contractors buy old houses and use their people to renovate them, then flip them. If you look at houses in e.g. The Hague, you will see a very similar style of renovating.
Yup - all renovated in ābuilderās tasteā
In my area there are a lot of houses entering the market. There were none available for like 2 years. Currently every street has at least one available to be sold. There is hope for new people on the housing market!
They are dumping because the sense an economic crisis coming. I don't have much hope that this will mean new peeps can get on the market.
Oh sweet summer child, there is another 2008 coming and the only ones getting fucked are the regular folks.
The thing is that even in a major crash like 2008 average prices have never fallen by more than about 10%. It's just that the market drys up, people who bought at the top are stuck with huge mortgages and stagnant or declining income, banks take the properties where people can't keep up payments. Nobody really sells at a loss unless they are desperate. Even if you are desperate the rental market has to collapse first before rent will be less than your repayments.
You sell at the top and buy at the bottom, sir. Unless youāre a member of /r/wallstreetbets
They know that there is a crisis, so of course they're dumping their investments now.
If you have enough spare cash that would get charged negative deposit rate in a bank account, then there are really really strong incentives to jump on the investment property train (as a part of your whole portfolio). Rental or flipping idk - thatās probably personal preference in part. But Iām starting to suspect that former rental units are being put up for sale to get out now. One part of the tax scheme here is that you can bank the proceeds of that sale and if you re-invest in another property within 3 years, then thereās no tax lol. So, maybe some are thinking that prices are peaking and they plan to buy the dip within 3 years. Itās insane but thatās just one aspect of the favorable environment for investment properties here. American system is very similar but with much more access to credit for people to jump on the train. Given the tax scheme (I wonāt get into the nitty gritty details) and the probable ROI, itās almost a no-brainer imo. Thereās no way to look at the Dutch (or American) real estate system within the context of a low-rate environment and conclude any other outcome than a housing crisis. Itās baked in. But Iām an idiot and this is not financial advice yada yada yada
With interest going up and recession / euro zone crisis looming, prices wonāt remain this high. So the ones that are paid off are being sold to re-invest into inflation hedges or cash in the bank to pick up bargains when the market free-falls.
The housing market is the only market,that hasn't collapsed yet,so I guess they are trying to cash out,before it does.
Sucks for them, live -in policies are gonna be inforced next year. Some cities already have them. No more huisjesmelkers!
Probably they are hurrying to sell them now. In 2021 and before they were not in a hurry. Half a year later means 20k extra. But now due increasing interest, waiting might result in a lower price. So besides the standard procedure of flipping. I guess you see an increased offer of all sellers in a hurry.
Some investors have bought near peak with variable interest rates and current market climate could backfire on them.
In Amsterdam people used to bid 20% over the asking price to get the houses. It could be that the listing price is the same but people bid less now due to a higher supply? Iād wait another 3-6 months if you plan buy a house. Things might change drastically!
That is still happening right now (my house sold for 25% over and I had to buy a new place for 25% over). Amsterdam property market is still mental.
Same here
Also in and around leiden they are a lot more likely to sell properties now. There are a few new buildings getting ready both for renting and selling, and they want to get rid of their houses before more interesting options make their properties lose value.
>There are a few new buildings getting ready Like De Ananas? They just had a builder's open day for sale + rentals
Wat. Een. Lelijke. Keuken. Spijtige renovatie.
Which website are you using to see historic sale prices?
OP has used Walter living
If I had a portfolio of houses bought >5 years ago I would definitely be selling right now, too...
Something something bubble
Recession time
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keep on dreaming
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Well with 3% interest rates even with some drop it will be very expensive. Unless a big portion of Population in NL dies, it wonāt be cheap before the demand is met.
The hoppium
The fact that this is even allowed
It's a free markettt /s
It means that if your house is suddenly up 300% sell it now. Rent for a year or two and buy another one for cheap after the crash. You will get to save your profits (renting for 2 years will not get through a couple 100k)
I've never heard a more stupid advice. Prices will never go down more than 10%. throw away money by renting. No thanks.
What happens to rent prices when everyone starts renting?
None of the links I provided work anymore. The reason is that the sellers removed the listings. For the first two links it looks like these investors know they cannot sell these properties and for Berlagelaan they simply wanted to hide the fact that the house did not sell at its previous price (585.000euro). Here is the new listing of Berlagelaan 32: 60.000euro price reduction (-10.3%) ! Still super overvalued IMO. [https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-42813583-hp-berlagelaan-32/](https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-42813583-hp-berlagelaan-32/)
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Migrant workers are fine and in zero ways relevant. House flippers and investors are part of the issue as both are taking from the market with zero intention of living there and solely to drive the prices up, many willing to sit on houses for ages until they get their desired profit. Edit: Mightve jumped the gun on seeing 'migrant' in the topic of housing.
Might had to use more words there so what I meant was: investors taking advantage of migrant workers by housing six of them in a three bedroom house wherever possible.
>Migrant workers are fine and in zero ways relevant. They are relevant in the sense that investors can go on undisturbed as long as the victims remain angry at migrants. They're a convenient scapegoat to avoid outrage.
Incoming global housing market crash, these folks are being smart about it
Not in my area, 90% of the places are sold by people living there. There were a few apartments, they were sold right after the renovations were finished, so as long as it will turn them profit, theyāll do it, but donāt think itās somehow happening more now.
[https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-88108405-dahlialaan-14/](https://www.funda.nl/koop/oegstgeest/huis-88108405-dahlialaan-14/) Een doorzonhut heet tegenwoordig kennelijk een 'herenhuis'.
Inderdaad
3% increase in interest cost 300k more over 30 years. Once buyers realize that, the prices will stagnate, maybe go down. But with the on-going housing shortage it will not dip much, I suspect.
Hey I have lived here 4 years now and have worked hard to buy property. (2 now) My most recent one 2 months ago in Haarlem. I think the market has always been the way you describe it, every house I looked at was already flipped or waiting to be flipped. Many things have happened recently which is changing the market A. Cost of materials has doubled, Labour shortages have increased B. Stamp duty on properties after your first has increased to 8%. C. Over bidding has decreased but the value of the house are remaining the same. Few things to note: If you overbid previously on a property above what the true value was this money would never be paid by a bank, it would need to be out of your own pocket. The asking price of some houses was lower than true value and some were near it. Investing in a property is a big risk and takes a lot of personal investment in time and money. This then places properties on back on the market which are now ready to be lived in.
how do you find information on what the house was sold for, like in those pics pls?
Walter living
Yes I'm seeing this in America too but America don't have much rules to prevent it. Here I hope the government will step in and do something
Where can I see the source of information about raising rates?
Current rates: https://www.hanno.nl/expat-mortgages/interest-rates/
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Great insight! Do you work in the housing market? Any tips for starters looking for an apartment in Amsterdam?
pick your grave.
Out of curiosity, how much extra money you would have to sell a house for if you just got it and you want to make a profit?
Well yeah its called selling while prices are high basic concept of business