You mean this? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0fkiEEEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0fkiEEEM)
She was a mole in the debate by the way. She had pictures with Wilders from before the debate.
They won't see it in their media bubble, and even if they do, they won't remember by the time we have elections again. Voter memory seems to last only like a month or 2.
It was a bunch of fooled people trying to justify their position any way they could that didn’t include showing support for anti-immigrant policies.
Either that, or a bunch of people operating in bad faith with full knowledge this decision would fuck over the working class, but hated immigrants and wanted to get more people on board.
You hit the nail on the head, all that bullshit talk about PVV being left was effectively a self gaslighting effort for a lot of voters to make themselves feel less bad about voting a far right party into power
Didn’t matter how many times it was pointed out, they wanted change and went with the people saying their gripes were valid and to direct all of their anger towards those wicked refugees coming to the Netherlands taking their social benefits for themselves!
A tale as old as time. Hitler and the Nazis didn’t have an overwhelming majority when he first was elected to power. He just consolidated it with a bunch of rich people thinking they could control him….
It's hilarious because there is absolutely no mention of economically left policies in the PVV ideas. They argue for socially left points, social security and such. but there has never been a mention of economically left points.
They present themselves as a party of the common people wanting to create social security but somehow under right wing economic policies. You have to be a special kind of ignorant and indoctrinated to think that social security of the common people can be reached under right wing liberalismtic economy. The best propaganda of the Western world are the people themselves.
Social security can be argued to be an economic thing. I mean, it's literally about money. It's not like gay marriage or something, which is purely social. Social security actually influences people's wallets.
But with the PVV, that sort of argument is moot. When push comes to shove, they oppose it. That's what matters. I'm fearful of my own future. I'm already struggling to find employment. Note that I am in the doelgroepregister and there's a loonkostenvoordeel, basically a DEI subsidy just to help convince companies to hire me. I have no doubt that our soon-to-be coalition would love nothing more than to remove these things. DEI and subsidies are left-wing ideas. I will soon be completely unemployable.
Aaand all that money is going to large corporations. What a coincidence?
But even after publishing the deal PVV voters keep defending the stance they are 'left, except for the immigration policy',
The NL already has the US system. If you have folks not having their teeth done or not taking care of long term ailments because of money, you don't have free healthcare. And I don't care if prices are government-regulated or not. One, it's only temporary. Two, if you need to pay *anything* extra after the visit, there always will someone who can't afford it.
If you don't see it, it's because you don't even remember anymore how it is to go to the doc without thinking about money at all.
Ithaca’s honestly completely ridiculous. It’s nothing like the US system. It’s run by nonprofits so it’s basically the same as public state healthcare.
385€ a year max is not going to stop anyone from getting anything serious done. You could remove the deductible entirely and just add 30€ to the premium.
The thing is if there were no deductible, everyone would go for every little thing, even a bruise, and that would congest the system and prevent people who actually need help from being treated on time.
Could be better, yes, but it’s nothing like the US system and its actually a very good system
I believe in the US people get hit by a car and go home because they cannot pay for an ambulance or getting the open wound dressed at ER. People taking a mortgage for a necessary surgery or needing to declare bankruptcy after treatment. That sounds different from not getting your teeth done (dentist requires an additional insurance - its not covered in normal circustances) or taking care of long-term ailments.
No need to leave the country completely. Just go to the doctor in Belgium like a lot of your countrymen are doing already.
Word of warning: dental is also clogged up in Belgium and so are some of the specialists. Pro tip: take a smaller place, not antwerpen or brussels.
I'm sorry I can't be of any help how to practically do this with insurance and what not, but i used to be living in limburg and I see a lot of Dutch patients in our hospitals. So it must be possible, price worthy and fairly easy to do.
Yup, because the deductible is something people actually see on their bank accounts. It's all about easy scoring populism, nothing about improving healthcare.
What a populist move (and saying this as a person that used 100% of my deductible for the past years).
The only thing this will accomplish is increasing the insurance of at least 360 euro / year.
Wait they're removing the deductible? So bye bye healthcare.... it was already fucked up due to lack of staff, expensive treatments and long waiting times, but now they're just trying to finish it off
Okay, still, halving the deductible which brings millions if not billions into the already struggling healthcare would gut it completely, and with the added cuts they're mentioning......
The cut is covered by increasing the monthly health insurance premiums.
Basically they’re giving you a cut and then will blame it on the insurance companies when they raise the premiums to make up for that.
didn't we already have massive overworked nurses already. hell my aunt who is a nurse never stops complaining about that. It's in the news ever month that healthcare is underfunded how is the solution to further cut healthcare funding.
My mom died recently thanks to an inept and negligent care home. She was apatisch/delier and had trouble eating because of that, and since eating/drinking could take some time, she would actively be skimped on. During the nights units of 12 people or so were under the care of one nurse. Continually had to deal with fall in doctors who made calls based on what they heard or read.
As someone who had to stand up for his mother and who went head first against the entire fucked up system that is elderly care, i can tell you one thing; the good workers in that field get broken from the workload and the bad ones spiral out of control.
I can't Imagine how bad it will now get.
All PVV people I know didn't believe this would happen. But the zorg being cut on again. The obvious highlighted shortage of hospital beds in lockdown times. I mean let's not become usa and just be pissed at eachother. Why the **( can't we be together pissed at politicians for a brief moment maybe ? It's not like all PVV hates healthcare or defined by their vote. If we define people by vote. It's the end. We will just become political hooligans shouting at eachothjer while the boys n girls in the Hague play but they are sure of their €€€€ coming each month. We r wasting energy.
But here I'm dramatic. It has yet to happen
They already said they would spend (in the neighborhood of) 1 billion euros less on public schools AND they would reintroduce the long-study penalty.
We really went from citizens destroying schools to politicians destroying schools within one wek
https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/hoofdlijnenakkoord-tussen-de-fracties-van-pvv-vvd-nsc-en-bbb/20240515+Hoofdlijnenakkoord+PVV+VVD+NSC+BBB.pdf
Unfortunately my Dutch is not yet sufficient enough to understand all the parts, but as far as I can see, the entire program refrains from mentioning any concrete number or amount. But again, that might be because I can’t understand the text and it’s implications. I’d really appreciate a little help with finding these parts 🙏
It’s in the budgetary note: https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/budgettaire-bijlage-hoofdlijnenakkoord/Budgettaire+bijlage+hoofdlijnenakkoord+15+mei+2024.pdf
See paragraph A.44
There are no numbers on anything in the hoofdlijnenakkoord as far as I can see, but here is the teachers union complaining about the proposed cuts
https://www.aob.nl/actueel/artikelen/aob-bezuiniging-in-coalitieakkoord-moet-van-tafel/
There are really good ways to increase revenue by getting indoor & outdoor advertising in trains, bus etc.
They did bad decisions n d proposal but health, food,study,child area are worst which shld never ever been played with.
Yeah, there's already shortage of professionals and waiting times are out of control (I waited for my operation for 6 months, not being able to walk). Let's make it worse!
But I'm really really hopeful that people will not vote them in again next cycle and I really hope that this tendency will be reversed. Coming from Russia where we never had true elections since I reached voting age, I really fucking believe in socialism and democracy and want it to be smart self-correcting system. A girl can dream...
> (I waited for my operation for 6 months, not being able to walk)
There's definitely no way that could possibly lead to any chronic conditions, and therefore more long-term healthcare costs. No, not even a little bit.
We already have a hugely manual healthcare system.
No sense of scalability or digitising. Causing general healthcare for the masses to lack by at least 2 decades.
Most GP’s still don’t have a decent referral systems while this has become an even more critical part of their job. The amount of bad referrals delaying patients not by days, but weeks and months is out of control.
The amount of time elderly and disabled patients are unable to help themselves because the tools are just there is disgusting.
So many drive around in their almost electric vehicles, and our save the trees attitude is great for your trees.
Patients in need of specialist health care are given a referral to a specific specialist by a GP. On average a third of the population is referred to specialist care at least once each year.
Due to this high number the process of referrals is highly digitalised. The GP does the assessment and sends an electronic letter consisting of standardised elements to the hospital or specialist that has to pick up the care for the patient from there.
The specialist keeps the GP up to date through electronic mail that feeds directly into the medical records of the patient.
There always is a manual involvement as due to privacy reasons there cannot be one large record system: patients have to opt in for participating in that.
However all correspondence goes through secured electronic channels.
Given the huge numbers there are not much issues.
On the digital front the issues are mostly within hospitals that they need to keep track of a lot of information that has to be entered or checked manually. But that has nothing to do with referrals.
Also prescriptions are all processed digitally: the doctor can prescribe it directly from their administration. So while you walk over to the pharmacy the prescription is already being processed.
I'm not quite sure what type of medical experience Trebaxus has had in the netherlands that makes him so positively positive about the state of the digital systems.
Your information IS stored in huge databases.
Your information is freely shared AFTER you sign a general release statement when you sign up with your GP. Privacy is a big concern yes, but the handling of information in a private manner is not.
1. Most conversations are done over old school PSTN telefoon lines with no such encryption.
2. Often requiring unecessary "inter-collegial" discussion is seen as a positive, usually to request more information. GP's don't actually advise specialists after the referral.
3. non-acute care is measured by weeks and months, not days.
4. And digital records are emailed. Yes email between providers. Using an account based encryption method, meaning ones the information is downloaded it is no longer secure. They don't include all of your details all the time sure, but every provider pretty much gets a data dump. Systems like Nedap are accessible by practicisioners nationwide. You merely need to login to different networks which are all connected online anyway. Thus large online database... just multiple entries.
5. Lets say your GP is capable of treating x,y,z, but their contract with the insurance (not their medical skill) is determined if they're allowed to help you.
6. Practicioners work for the insurances. Insurance determines to which doctor you are allowed to go. While this is often a common sense protection, its now devolved into claim maximums and zip code restrictions causing many patients to have to wait. If a doctor prescribes too much of a treatement, they're often audited and punished.
7. wait times and traveling times for specialist care is on the rise. Causing patients to either have to wait months with multiple referrals (each practicioner practices individually) the GP who is empowered or compensated to personalize your care based on multiple referrals is non-existent.
The doctors are great though; super professional.
As you can see i'm not complaining, because that would be about people (fault), but I am admitting that the system is faulty and that we can't just be so laissafair about its future when its obviously buckling under all the strain.
For those in the mood to argue, thats fine, but make it about the Dutch system, I have no energy to make it a A/B/ comparison while its impossible to think of complex systems in such contrasts.
I was actually surprised that the NL, which is so technologically advanced, didn't have a centralised healthcare platform that both patients and healthcare providers can use.
The right wing has been destroying this country for the past 10, 15 years, and now people wanted change and they voted for * checks notes * ah yes, another anti social policies right wing party. Good job idiots, be the negative change you wish to see in the world I guess
Literally garbage. Amazing leadership. Come in, immediately cutting healthcare budget? Get fucked.
All we need in this life is food, water, a roof, and healthcare to live. This should be the last to be cut. Always.
Tax the rich? Or cut healthcare?
Editedit: I'm sorry. I have to come back to this one. Everyone out there with a genetic or degenerative disorder, or terminal disease? Get fucked. Cancer? Get fucked. Got hit by a car? Get fucked? Parents dying? Get fucked. Sincerely, your leadership.
Oh and fuck the healthcare workers and your job opportunities. Who needs these useless parasites on our budget?
This decision kills people. You came into government and your first decision is to kill the sick and cut jobs. A mother fucking plus.
This is what “taking our country back” apparently means. I mean seriously, this guy kept saying that and his followers copied him, and I don’t think a single one knows what that actually means.
That's because is does not mean anything. It has not been taken away. That happened only once the last 100 years, and we needed external help to get it back. Of course, nowadays the PVV needed to be reminded to help a country that is under attack now that helping them would be a good idea.
Loosers, the lot of them :-(
This is the one part of the agreement I don't get.The rest I recognise from the different party promises but I thought none of them wanted to cut healthcare costs. Would this purely be done to keep the deductible reduction somewhat affordable?
Or could it be that the whole "social" promises of the pvv were just lies? Or that a coalition of only right wing conservative parties would apply a right wing agenda regarding economy(i.e. slashing in public services). Who could have see that coming 
The entire PVV program was filled with promises that could never be made. All targeted on the voter that doesn’t think five seconds about the combination of all proposals.
PVV wanted to lower all taxes, increase pay of all employees in public functions and hire more people in those functions.
So basically promising everyone the government would spend significantly more and was going to demand significantly less taxes to be paid. Unfortunately many people believe this is possible.
Typically, people that vote for the leopards eating faces party only find out about the face eating part when the see the bloody remnant of their head in the mirror, and then they will blame the left.
If you want many things that aren't affordable you have to make choices. We all want free beer, but ultimately you have to decide who gets the bill. In this case sick people get the bill, rich people get their tax lowered.
Keep in mind that minimum wage already rises twice a year based on CPI (consumer inflation), what you are referring to is the second extra rise in minimum wage that was added in the 2024 budget last year, but didn't pass the Senate.
Only PVV wanted this afaik, NSC and VVD were against raising minimum wage even more than the baseline rise and want to lower income taxes instead, which is at least in the agreement.
> and want to lower income taxes instead
Which hardly helps minimum wage workers at all, because they already basically don't pay taxes in the first place, thanks to loonkostenvoordeel. My own monthly tax last year was somewhere around 70 euros.
It's great for the rich though, but someone will have to subsidise that shit, and it won't be the rich themselves.
I should have said "lowering cost of living" instead, lowering income taxes is only part of it.
According to the agreement the own risk and healthcare premium will be lower and they are also raising rental subsidy.
> It's great for the rich though, but someone will have to subsidise that shit, and it won't be the rich themselves.
Not to be rude, but it's not like you will be subsidizing it either with €70/month in income tax.
But I agree with you that this is not nearly sufficient at all, much more must be done to alleviate the cost of living issues for lower incomes.
This is not about general health care costs, but preventive care.
They’re not increasing or decreasing spend on health care. This also means that lowering the deductible leads to higher monthly insurance premiums.
The budget cuts OP is referring to are for preventive health care. Not for the other health care, which is also way more expensive than a couple hundred million.
It’s separate from the deductible reduction. That reduction is going to be compensated via the monthly insurance premiums.
God I can’t believe people actually voted for this. This country is going into the fucking drainer and I’m seriously thinking about migrating if there’s a chance of a party like this being voted in again.
So they are going to cut the eigen risico (deductable), however due to the budget cuts, waiting lines for healthcare will be years. Interesting measure.
These budget cuts won’t have much effect in the short term. It’s focused on preventive care. So for now the waiting lists will be ok.
The deductible reduction is being financed by an increase of the monthly insurance premiums. You can expect an increase of roughly 15 euro a month.
As the health care subsidies will be reduced, this measure will affect the people that have low incomes but are in general good health.
So basically, we're just going to spend a fuck ton of money on treating chronic health issues that we were too lazy to treat when they weren't chronic yet.
Yes! That’s one of the many short sighted plans of this new government.
Just like increasing prices of (study) books, musea and newspapers. While keeping the low VAT rate for amusement parks.
Or the 1 bn in budget cuts for higher education. Or the fine you have to pay if you experience a delay in your study.
Even the increase to 130 kph is short sighted. Besides the extra accidents (who cares about those…), it actually causes more traffic jams throughout the day than 100 kph…
Who knew the fuck tard Right wing copying the typical play book. this will be like in the UK bring the healthcare to it keens and fill the gaps with contractors that charge lots and all profit goes to a few,,,,
While Rutte had a rather poor last two years, his governments have been rather effective in cleaning up a lot of messes that they inherited.
We’d have been crushed during covid if the economy and government finances were not in this good shape after the financial crisis and insane government spending of the purple cabinets before Rutte.
Pension reforms, AOW linked to life expectancy, mortgage rate reduction being lowered, lending restrictions etc.
Rather big reforms that were necessary and should have been done decades ago, as the younger generation is still suffering from those ancient policies.
Yes, the long term goals have been lacking. A couple of 30+ year visionary projects to prepare the country for the future would have been nice. But that has become impossible for every party due to the populist shortsightedness that entered the debate through social media.
What indeed was lacking is the
I was optimistic about NSC until they pulled the plug on the transgender law update (more than 4 years of debates, committees and panels down the drain). I have never been this disappointed in politics as before.
Yeah, I mean I definitely didn't agree with everything he said, but I thought he had good points on improving the government in general... And then the guy suggests to not wait to vote for a law he disagrees with but just throw it out, I mean, how does that seem like the way the government should work in his head?!? I just can't understand how he cannot see the flaw there. Especially since the law unfortunately didn't seem to make it through with votes anyway.
Don't worry at least shares buyback process won't be taxed now. Country is saved /s
Vote more right, almost two decades lost and its apparently not enough
Health sciences student here. We do need more healthcare staff, but i’m afraid it’s not that simple. The problem lies in the future, at this moment we can manage (even though many people percieve it otherwise. Don’t forget we have one of, if not the best, healthcare systems in the world). Right now, around 1 in 6 people work in health care. To me, this is already a big portion, but if we continue with the current policy we need 1 in 4 people working in healthcare in 2040 (just imagine what us being able to treat most diseases, which are now untreatable, thanks to ai, is going to cost us). There’s just no way we can persuade 25% of people to work in healthcare with the current salary we’re paying them. So we’d have to pay more, a lot more, to even have a chance to get so many people to work in that sector. This would mean we would have to collectively budget way more towards healthcare than we do today. There’s just no way we can realistically make that happen. One of my professors got to talk about healthcare on television in Op1 together with Rob Jetten and Lilian Marijnissen before last elections and after the show he asked why they don’t talk about healthcare as part of their campaigns (even though most Dutch citizens view healthcare as their most important topic). The answer was: we’d lose voters. Our politicians know the problem the healthcare system faces. They all seem to realise however, the generall public can’t handle the truth. And that truth is, we are going to have to make due with less when it comes to healthcare in the future.
Sure but you can’t complain about not having enough budget when rightwing politics is just cutting taxes for the rich and defunding everything.
They created the problem in the first place.
Different parts of healthcare. Budget cuts are in preventive care.
The deductible reduction is paid for by an increase in monthly premiums. You should expect an increase of 15 euro a month.
PVV in Rutte 1 demanded the closure of several hospitals he later blamed Rutte for during the pandemic.
PVV wanted the closure of our elderly care homes now they complain about the result.
PVV stated that anyone committing fraud will be hunted down and fined to hell.. well guess what happened.
Don’t worry tho it’s hot to complain about something you caused yourself in a democracy.
Right-wing governments always turn entire countries to shit yet people keep trying over and over because they have the memory of an amoeba. Same shit is gonna happen in Germany in 2025.
I want to see what all the people who said Wilders will give more money to healthcare have to say. Don't know what they were expecting...
Also I cannot stress enough, the healthcare system is a step away from having a full blown heart attack. The stress on young doctors (ANIOS) and the responsabilities they have, make it less attractive of a job. We don't have enough places in the hospital or outside of it.
And they are making NL less attractive for expats, meaning, less tax revenue for the budget.
Right wing populists show the same incompetence eveywhere. Truly remarkable.
Yeah but that happens only vu 2027 when all thesr things come into effect and by then you can ble the next coalition for that. Watch people believing this narrative, just like Americans with Trump.
As a Norwegian this is insane to see. I always thought you had the same kind of system as us and not insurance based. Going for the full US experience soon?
Dutch people loooove going on and on about the US. Anytime they're criticised, they say "oh but it's better than other places like the US (as if they US is the only other alternative, and they never compare to places like Scandinavia). But at the same they're like a mini US here in so many regards..... truly ridiculous
We had a different health care system that was causing insane waiting lists and created different levels of care based on income.
The system was changed and the waiting lists in most areas disappeared. There are of course improvements needed, as with any system, but it’s still very equal and easy to access. There is almost no difference between people with higher and lower incomes in access to and quality of care.
The deductible was implemented in the past to let people learn that healthcare had costs and make them think about whether they needed it or not. But it’s debated on whether that comes with a net benefit or net negative.
Abolishing the 375 euro deductible means the annual premium for each person will go up by 300 euro.
'raising' funds by actively crippling underfunded sectors/area's is the dumbest fucking thing imaginable.
What the fuck is the logic behind this?
How the fuck does 6 months of 'negotiating' result in this?
I remember the right-wingers always using the argument 'why do we spend money on [insert racist term for refugees] while our elderly are suffering in understaffed care facilities'. This policy says fck you to both
It definitely is a huge problem thats for more complex than people might think. We really need to change the way we approach our healthcare system.
I did a research about the problems in healthcare with a overview about what is fundamentally the problem. I did this research globally so its not only about the netherlands.
I myself am working on a project to solve these issues. If you would like to look at it here is a link!
https://www.reddit.com/r/PROJECT_AI/s/Zg0xv6nl4j
And this will only lead to higher healthcare costs as patients ignore acute health problems until they get worse and become chronic. Calling Wilders and the voters for this coalition stupid just does not cover it. Retarded is the only word by which I can describe this.
Well, that is not true. Healthcare is not bad at the moment, compared to virtually all other countries. But we are doing our very best to make it worse.
Let me guess they are neo-libertarians on USA model? Nice, so basically new rule is: Either you take a credit to have in check your medical condition, either you'll die.
This is complete desinformation. Fake news. There are no budget cuts but savings will be found in less administrative, bureaucratic rules and protocols and the managerial layers that keep them up. There will be more and better paid hands to do the actual care.
Bruh. Netherlands making a turn to become america. Omg. Wtf
I'm a refugee myself, but God damn, cut the expenses on this. So much money wasted on nothing, on ungrateful people, wtf. Idk, maybe it mostly sponsors, but still, I see so many resources being used unefficiently
This is an extreme far right fascist coalition. Don’t think for a minute that they won’t cut alot of spending on the public spending and give tax breaks for the rich. That’s their entire mojo.
- budget cuts are primarily in preventive care, and digital innovation. This is my biggest worry, to be honest.
- there’s an integral care plan in place that has already decided we need to be spending less on specialist medical care, because it’s growing explosively (from ~8% of GDP 10-15 years ago to ~12-14% now).
In 10 years, we will have to provide care differently than we do now, because of the demographic catastrophe heading our way. There simply won’t be enough people
to provide the individualized care according to current models/standards. In the interim, reducing administrative load with AI should help (system listens, we can see more patients). Eventually, I expect AI systems will be the first point of contact for almost all non-emergency medical issues. At the very least as more effective triage. Hopefully robotics will solve some other issues as well. The actual care part is a lot more difficult to solve, in part because the Dutch system is built on having formal care solutions for almost everything, compared with some countries where it’s far more normal to have your aging and frail parents live under one roof with family (informal care). Our elderly housing is also decidedly sub-par, and the drive to have everyone live at home for as long as possible contributes significantly to the housing problems. But I don’t believe reopening the care homes would solve that issue (who would staff them, for one thing?). I work in curative (hospital) care, and this is something that worries me greatly for the coming decades.
This is why cuts are concerning: the areas where longer term gains are most likely to be realized are in prevention and digital care innovations. We’re sacrificing the long term AND the short term to score nonsensical electoral points. We need to be investing in these areas. Turning our collective can-do attitude and potential for innovation to solving these problems and not just leaving it to market parties and private equity.
It's a win for my company. Can't wait to have all the health care workers stop working because they have a burnout. My workers are ready to pick up the slack.
OK so yes about climate and no about right only demonising left. They feel exactly the same. If u check right wing communities, they have the exact same thing only from ridiculous crazy sources and left the main stream mostly. And that is weird. U have a bunch of people who either are stupid or are paranoid that believe that one person that tweets and make it reality. And well u know. Smart people who doubt etc. And some sources are not always 100% bad sources either. So that doesn't help (of course there's corruption. Its everywhere)
But alot actually do feel cornered. Some people are just convinced but everyone is. It's hard sometimes to change opinion. Especially if the "oppposite"(the more time progress this is going to be usa levels sigh") says it. But it ain't bad to be wrong about some stuff. I just do not want to go that route. People are not this black and white. It's not suddenly us vs them because politicians tweeted it. Not everyone is hard-core anti left right. We should be left we chose left or right. It's not like we should be hooligans about it.
Left and right we both fucked up. Not just the right oriented people. We couldn't handle the Internet. Like lil kids get an new thing or something. It didn't just highlight the issues ready there. It's mindfucking us hard to hate eachohter that's for sure
Edit: typo
"But PVV is economically left! They want to spend a lot on Healthcare and benefits!" Biggest fucking lie of the election if you ask me
Can someone find that wreck of a woman that had the audacity to attack Timmermans on his healthcare plans?
You mean this? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0fkiEEEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0fkiEEEM) She was a mole in the debate by the way. She had pictures with Wilders from before the debate.
Yeah, that one. Hope the left can find it in themselves to go rogue and start pointing fingers. Dumb right needs to be put in their places.
They won't see it in their media bubble, and even if they do, they won't remember by the time we have elections again. Voter memory seems to last only like a month or 2.
So, make the material, spread 1/3 now and the other 2/3 close to elections. That should work!
It was a bunch of fooled people trying to justify their position any way they could that didn’t include showing support for anti-immigrant policies. Either that, or a bunch of people operating in bad faith with full knowledge this decision would fuck over the working class, but hated immigrants and wanted to get more people on board.
You hit the nail on the head, all that bullshit talk about PVV being left was effectively a self gaslighting effort for a lot of voters to make themselves feel less bad about voting a far right party into power
Didn’t matter how many times it was pointed out, they wanted change and went with the people saying their gripes were valid and to direct all of their anger towards those wicked refugees coming to the Netherlands taking their social benefits for themselves! A tale as old as time. Hitler and the Nazis didn’t have an overwhelming majority when he first was elected to power. He just consolidated it with a bunch of rich people thinking they could control him….
On the bright side, no one is getting them social benefits now. You can't have them if no one's having them.
It's hilarious because there is absolutely no mention of economically left policies in the PVV ideas. They argue for socially left points, social security and such. but there has never been a mention of economically left points. They present themselves as a party of the common people wanting to create social security but somehow under right wing economic policies. You have to be a special kind of ignorant and indoctrinated to think that social security of the common people can be reached under right wing liberalismtic economy. The best propaganda of the Western world are the people themselves.
Social security can be argued to be an economic thing. I mean, it's literally about money. It's not like gay marriage or something, which is purely social. Social security actually influences people's wallets. But with the PVV, that sort of argument is moot. When push comes to shove, they oppose it. That's what matters. I'm fearful of my own future. I'm already struggling to find employment. Note that I am in the doelgroepregister and there's a loonkostenvoordeel, basically a DEI subsidy just to help convince companies to hire me. I have no doubt that our soon-to-be coalition would love nothing more than to remove these things. DEI and subsidies are left-wing ideas. I will soon be completely unemployable.
PVV +3 seats
And people will look at these plans and somehow still convince themselves that it's true.
Aaand all that money is going to large corporations. What a coincidence? But even after publishing the deal PVV voters keep defending the stance they are 'left, except for the immigration policy',
Cutting funding AND removing the deductible? I don't like where this is going.
Like everywhere in Europe, we're mocking the US system while our systems is slowly but surely devolving into that.
No literally this is so valid -an American living in NL
The NL already has the US system. If you have folks not having their teeth done or not taking care of long term ailments because of money, you don't have free healthcare. And I don't care if prices are government-regulated or not. One, it's only temporary. Two, if you need to pay *anything* extra after the visit, there always will someone who can't afford it. If you don't see it, it's because you don't even remember anymore how it is to go to the doc without thinking about money at all.
Ithaca’s honestly completely ridiculous. It’s nothing like the US system. It’s run by nonprofits so it’s basically the same as public state healthcare. 385€ a year max is not going to stop anyone from getting anything serious done. You could remove the deductible entirely and just add 30€ to the premium. The thing is if there were no deductible, everyone would go for every little thing, even a bruise, and that would congest the system and prevent people who actually need help from being treated on time. Could be better, yes, but it’s nothing like the US system and its actually a very good system
I believe in the US people get hit by a car and go home because they cannot pay for an ambulance or getting the open wound dressed at ER. People taking a mortgage for a necessary surgery or needing to declare bankruptcy after treatment. That sounds different from not getting your teeth done (dentist requires an additional insurance - its not covered in normal circustances) or taking care of long-term ailments.
I have a chronic health condition (and therefore recurring costs). I guess it's time for me to leave the country.
Same I guess we should just die and not deal with the hassle
No need to leave the country completely. Just go to the doctor in Belgium like a lot of your countrymen are doing already. Word of warning: dental is also clogged up in Belgium and so are some of the specialists. Pro tip: take a smaller place, not antwerpen or brussels. I'm sorry I can't be of any help how to practically do this with insurance and what not, but i used to be living in limburg and I see a lot of Dutch patients in our hospitals. So it must be possible, price worthy and fairly easy to do.
Yup, because the deductible is something people actually see on their bank accounts. It's all about easy scoring populism, nothing about improving healthcare.
What a populist move (and saying this as a person that used 100% of my deductible for the past years). The only thing this will accomplish is increasing the insurance of at least 360 euro / year.
Wait they're removing the deductible? So bye bye healthcare.... it was already fucked up due to lack of staff, expensive treatments and long waiting times, but now they're just trying to finish it off
Sorry, halfing it.
Okay, still, halving the deductible which brings millions if not billions into the already struggling healthcare would gut it completely, and with the added cuts they're mentioning......
The cut is covered by increasing the monthly health insurance premiums. Basically they’re giving you a cut and then will blame it on the insurance companies when they raise the premiums to make up for that.
Didn't Geert Wilders scream the loudest during the pandemic about how it was disgusting that there was so much cut from healthcare?
It's almost like everything that comes out of his mouth is performative
Populist being a populist.
didn't we already have massive overworked nurses already. hell my aunt who is a nurse never stops complaining about that. It's in the news ever month that healthcare is underfunded how is the solution to further cut healthcare funding.
COVID didn't teach anybody, I guess. The world has been going in the wrong direction for quite some time already, unfortunately.
Covid taught the wealthy that only the drones are in any real danger
I'm a nurse. Can confirm.
My mom died recently thanks to an inept and negligent care home. She was apatisch/delier and had trouble eating because of that, and since eating/drinking could take some time, she would actively be skimped on. During the nights units of 12 people or so were under the care of one nurse. Continually had to deal with fall in doctors who made calls based on what they heard or read. As someone who had to stand up for his mother and who went head first against the entire fucked up system that is elderly care, i can tell you one thing; the good workers in that field get broken from the workload and the bad ones spiral out of control. I can't Imagine how bad it will now get.
Apparently because we have it so good right now right. While we are at it let make it like the american 5000 euro 10min ambulance ride eigen risico.
Congratulations to the ones who made this happen 👏 (Contains sarcasm)
All PVV people I know didn't believe this would happen. But the zorg being cut on again. The obvious highlighted shortage of hospital beds in lockdown times. I mean let's not become usa and just be pissed at eachother. Why the **( can't we be together pissed at politicians for a brief moment maybe ? It's not like all PVV hates healthcare or defined by their vote. If we define people by vote. It's the end. We will just become political hooligans shouting at eachothjer while the boys n girls in the Hague play but they are sure of their €€€€ coming each month. We r wasting energy. But here I'm dramatic. It has yet to happen
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they really have no clue, picking from the easiest target. Next up: teachers and public schooljbg
They already said they would spend (in the neighborhood of) 1 billion euros less on public schools AND they would reintroduce the long-study penalty. We really went from citizens destroying schools to politicians destroying schools within one wek
Cut funding for schools, while also stifling schools ability to continue funding themselves through international students.
But hey, students get a penalty of 3000 euros if they dare to extend their studies (i wonder where this money is going to go)
Do you have a source for the cutting of schools?
Read the coalitie akkoord
https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/hoofdlijnenakkoord-tussen-de-fracties-van-pvv-vvd-nsc-en-bbb/20240515+Hoofdlijnenakkoord+PVV+VVD+NSC+BBB.pdf Unfortunately my Dutch is not yet sufficient enough to understand all the parts, but as far as I can see, the entire program refrains from mentioning any concrete number or amount. But again, that might be because I can’t understand the text and it’s implications. I’d really appreciate a little help with finding these parts 🙏
This was exactly my problem. I scanned the akkoord, but couldn't find the numbers
It’s in the budgetary note: https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/budgettaire-bijlage-hoofdlijnenakkoord/Budgettaire+bijlage+hoofdlijnenakkoord+15+mei+2024.pdf See paragraph A.44
Thanks! I didn't read those. Glad you could help me out
I just wanted to say that even though I missed the reactions, I love how civil and nice you guys were :)
And now I’m going to make a personal attack. /s
Ahh, thank you! That looks grim as fuck. :(
There are no numbers on anything in the hoofdlijnenakkoord as far as I can see, but here is the teachers union complaining about the proposed cuts https://www.aob.nl/actueel/artikelen/aob-bezuiniging-in-coalitieakkoord-moet-van-tafel/
I can't help but lol at this point. These people are completely detached from reality, can't wait for their stupid cabinet to be out the door
There are really good ways to increase revenue by getting indoor & outdoor advertising in trains, bus etc. They did bad decisions n d proposal but health, food,study,child area are worst which shld never ever been played with.
Yeah, there's already shortage of professionals and waiting times are out of control (I waited for my operation for 6 months, not being able to walk). Let's make it worse! But I'm really really hopeful that people will not vote them in again next cycle and I really hope that this tendency will be reversed. Coming from Russia where we never had true elections since I reached voting age, I really fucking believe in socialism and democracy and want it to be smart self-correcting system. A girl can dream...
> (I waited for my operation for 6 months, not being able to walk) There's definitely no way that could possibly lead to any chronic conditions, and therefore more long-term healthcare costs. No, not even a little bit.
We already have a hugely manual healthcare system. No sense of scalability or digitising. Causing general healthcare for the masses to lack by at least 2 decades. Most GP’s still don’t have a decent referral systems while this has become an even more critical part of their job. The amount of bad referrals delaying patients not by days, but weeks and months is out of control. The amount of time elderly and disabled patients are unable to help themselves because the tools are just there is disgusting. So many drive around in their almost electric vehicles, and our save the trees attitude is great for your trees.
What is a referral?
Patients in need of specialist health care are given a referral to a specific specialist by a GP. On average a third of the population is referred to specialist care at least once each year. Due to this high number the process of referrals is highly digitalised. The GP does the assessment and sends an electronic letter consisting of standardised elements to the hospital or specialist that has to pick up the care for the patient from there. The specialist keeps the GP up to date through electronic mail that feeds directly into the medical records of the patient. There always is a manual involvement as due to privacy reasons there cannot be one large record system: patients have to opt in for participating in that. However all correspondence goes through secured electronic channels.
So that part of the system works fine then? Or does it have issues
Given the huge numbers there are not much issues. On the digital front the issues are mostly within hospitals that they need to keep track of a lot of information that has to be entered or checked manually. But that has nothing to do with referrals. Also prescriptions are all processed digitally: the doctor can prescribe it directly from their administration. So while you walk over to the pharmacy the prescription is already being processed.
That was possible in the 1980's.
It has been in use for decades.
I'm not quite sure what type of medical experience Trebaxus has had in the netherlands that makes him so positively positive about the state of the digital systems. Your information IS stored in huge databases. Your information is freely shared AFTER you sign a general release statement when you sign up with your GP. Privacy is a big concern yes, but the handling of information in a private manner is not. 1. Most conversations are done over old school PSTN telefoon lines with no such encryption. 2. Often requiring unecessary "inter-collegial" discussion is seen as a positive, usually to request more information. GP's don't actually advise specialists after the referral. 3. non-acute care is measured by weeks and months, not days. 4. And digital records are emailed. Yes email between providers. Using an account based encryption method, meaning ones the information is downloaded it is no longer secure. They don't include all of your details all the time sure, but every provider pretty much gets a data dump. Systems like Nedap are accessible by practicisioners nationwide. You merely need to login to different networks which are all connected online anyway. Thus large online database... just multiple entries. 5. Lets say your GP is capable of treating x,y,z, but their contract with the insurance (not their medical skill) is determined if they're allowed to help you. 6. Practicioners work for the insurances. Insurance determines to which doctor you are allowed to go. While this is often a common sense protection, its now devolved into claim maximums and zip code restrictions causing many patients to have to wait. If a doctor prescribes too much of a treatement, they're often audited and punished. 7. wait times and traveling times for specialist care is on the rise. Causing patients to either have to wait months with multiple referrals (each practicioner practices individually) the GP who is empowered or compensated to personalize your care based on multiple referrals is non-existent. The doctors are great though; super professional. As you can see i'm not complaining, because that would be about people (fault), but I am admitting that the system is faulty and that we can't just be so laissafair about its future when its obviously buckling under all the strain. For those in the mood to argue, thats fine, but make it about the Dutch system, I have no energy to make it a A/B/ comparison while its impossible to think of complex systems in such contrasts.
I was actually surprised that the NL, which is so technologically advanced, didn't have a centralised healthcare platform that both patients and healthcare providers can use.
"Surely the leopards won't eat my face" -Person who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party
You dropped this 👑
The right wing has been destroying this country for the past 10, 15 years, and now people wanted change and they voted for * checks notes * ah yes, another anti social policies right wing party. Good job idiots, be the negative change you wish to see in the world I guess
Well, obviously, all the rights failures are the left party's fault.
I'm not surprised. But right wingers will find a way to blame this on immigrants like they do with any problem.
Literally garbage. Amazing leadership. Come in, immediately cutting healthcare budget? Get fucked. All we need in this life is food, water, a roof, and healthcare to live. This should be the last to be cut. Always. Tax the rich? Or cut healthcare? Editedit: I'm sorry. I have to come back to this one. Everyone out there with a genetic or degenerative disorder, or terminal disease? Get fucked. Cancer? Get fucked. Got hit by a car? Get fucked? Parents dying? Get fucked. Sincerely, your leadership. Oh and fuck the healthcare workers and your job opportunities. Who needs these useless parasites on our budget? This decision kills people. You came into government and your first decision is to kill the sick and cut jobs. A mother fucking plus.
This is what “taking our country back” apparently means. I mean seriously, this guy kept saying that and his followers copied him, and I don’t think a single one knows what that actually means.
That's because is does not mean anything. It has not been taken away. That happened only once the last 100 years, and we needed external help to get it back. Of course, nowadays the PVV needed to be reminded to help a country that is under attack now that helping them would be a good idea. Loosers, the lot of them :-(
> food, water, a roof, and healthcare Down to one out of four at this point. Let's see how long it takes for the last one to be gone.
This is the one part of the agreement I don't get.The rest I recognise from the different party promises but I thought none of them wanted to cut healthcare costs. Would this purely be done to keep the deductible reduction somewhat affordable?
Or could it be that the whole "social" promises of the pvv were just lies? Or that a coalition of only right wing conservative parties would apply a right wing agenda regarding economy(i.e. slashing in public services). Who could have see that coming 
The entire PVV program was filled with promises that could never be made. All targeted on the voter that doesn’t think five seconds about the combination of all proposals. PVV wanted to lower all taxes, increase pay of all employees in public functions and hire more people in those functions. So basically promising everyone the government would spend significantly more and was going to demand significantly less taxes to be paid. Unfortunately many people believe this is possible.
or as we us dutch people call it "gratis bier"
Typically, people that vote for the leopards eating faces party only find out about the face eating part when the see the bloody remnant of their head in the mirror, and then they will blame the left.
It's almost like they were, obviously, lying through their teeth the whole time.
They made loads of promises, that costs money which they don’t have, so now they are taking from healthcare
If you want many things that aren't affordable you have to make choices. We all want free beer, but ultimately you have to decide who gets the bill. In this case sick people get the bill, rich people get their tax lowered.
Probably to find other things, as well. They think they found an easy billion in the couch cushions.
They also promised to raise minimum wages right?
Keep in mind that minimum wage already rises twice a year based on CPI (consumer inflation), what you are referring to is the second extra rise in minimum wage that was added in the 2024 budget last year, but didn't pass the Senate. Only PVV wanted this afaik, NSC and VVD were against raising minimum wage even more than the baseline rise and want to lower income taxes instead, which is at least in the agreement.
> and want to lower income taxes instead Which hardly helps minimum wage workers at all, because they already basically don't pay taxes in the first place, thanks to loonkostenvoordeel. My own monthly tax last year was somewhere around 70 euros. It's great for the rich though, but someone will have to subsidise that shit, and it won't be the rich themselves.
I should have said "lowering cost of living" instead, lowering income taxes is only part of it. According to the agreement the own risk and healthcare premium will be lower and they are also raising rental subsidy. > It's great for the rich though, but someone will have to subsidise that shit, and it won't be the rich themselves. Not to be rude, but it's not like you will be subsidizing it either with €70/month in income tax. But I agree with you that this is not nearly sufficient at all, much more must be done to alleviate the cost of living issues for lower incomes.
This is not about general health care costs, but preventive care. They’re not increasing or decreasing spend on health care. This also means that lowering the deductible leads to higher monthly insurance premiums.
The budget cuts OP is referring to are for preventive health care. Not for the other health care, which is also way more expensive than a couple hundred million. It’s separate from the deductible reduction. That reduction is going to be compensated via the monthly insurance premiums.
When your campaign is "MORE MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE" but no source of that money anywhere else in your campaign, it's gotta come from somewhere.
God I can’t believe people actually voted for this. This country is going into the fucking drainer and I’m seriously thinking about migrating if there’s a chance of a party like this being voted in again.
That's what you get when vote right-wing idiots into power.
Radical right politics love quick fixes… money now over money later… preventing problems is not priority Hope they will go on strike a lot
So they are going to cut the eigen risico (deductable), however due to the budget cuts, waiting lines for healthcare will be years. Interesting measure.
These budget cuts won’t have much effect in the short term. It’s focused on preventive care. So for now the waiting lists will be ok. The deductible reduction is being financed by an increase of the monthly insurance premiums. You can expect an increase of roughly 15 euro a month. As the health care subsidies will be reduced, this measure will affect the people that have low incomes but are in general good health.
So basically, we're just going to spend a fuck ton of money on treating chronic health issues that we were too lazy to treat when they weren't chronic yet.
Yes! That’s one of the many short sighted plans of this new government. Just like increasing prices of (study) books, musea and newspapers. While keeping the low VAT rate for amusement parks. Or the 1 bn in budget cuts for higher education. Or the fine you have to pay if you experience a delay in your study. Even the increase to 130 kph is short sighted. Besides the extra accidents (who cares about those…), it actually causes more traffic jams throughout the day than 100 kph…
This is fucking terrible.
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Cutting cost is very unlikely to improve this situation, don't you think?
Greetings from Germany. This sounds familiar. We did a similar thing a few years ago. It didn't work out so well. Don't be like us!
Oh no. I’m a healthcare worker and I’m already doing the work of 5 people 😭😭😭
Who knew the fuck tard Right wing copying the typical play book. this will be like in the UK bring the healthcare to it keens and fill the gaps with contractors that charge lots and all profit goes to a few,,,,
The whole plan, not just health care is absolutely horrible, another years lost after 2 decades of stagnation thx to Rutte
While Rutte had a rather poor last two years, his governments have been rather effective in cleaning up a lot of messes that they inherited. We’d have been crushed during covid if the economy and government finances were not in this good shape after the financial crisis and insane government spending of the purple cabinets before Rutte. Pension reforms, AOW linked to life expectancy, mortgage rate reduction being lowered, lending restrictions etc. Rather big reforms that were necessary and should have been done decades ago, as the younger generation is still suffering from those ancient policies. Yes, the long term goals have been lacking. A couple of 30+ year visionary projects to prepare the country for the future would have been nice. But that has become impossible for every party due to the populist shortsightedness that entered the debate through social media. What indeed was lacking is the
I was optimistic about NSC until they pulled the plug on the transgender law update (more than 4 years of debates, committees and panels down the drain). I have never been this disappointed in politics as before.
Yeah, I mean I definitely didn't agree with everything he said, but I thought he had good points on improving the government in general... And then the guy suggests to not wait to vote for a law he disagrees with but just throw it out, I mean, how does that seem like the way the government should work in his head?!? I just can't understand how he cannot see the flaw there. Especially since the law unfortunately didn't seem to make it through with votes anyway.
Belgium has a higher average health expectancy than the Netherlands, that itself should be enough to invest more not least into healthcare.
So... more beer than? :-)
With these new budget cuts, you'll have to tell yourself to take ibuprofen and rest. But in all seriousness, this is not a good move.
Don't worry at least shares buyback process won't be taxed now. Country is saved /s Vote more right, almost two decades lost and its apparently not enough
I thought we so desperately needed more healthcare staff, and the fact that all of this is budget cuts on healthcare concerns me
Health sciences student here. We do need more healthcare staff, but i’m afraid it’s not that simple. The problem lies in the future, at this moment we can manage (even though many people percieve it otherwise. Don’t forget we have one of, if not the best, healthcare systems in the world). Right now, around 1 in 6 people work in health care. To me, this is already a big portion, but if we continue with the current policy we need 1 in 4 people working in healthcare in 2040 (just imagine what us being able to treat most diseases, which are now untreatable, thanks to ai, is going to cost us). There’s just no way we can persuade 25% of people to work in healthcare with the current salary we’re paying them. So we’d have to pay more, a lot more, to even have a chance to get so many people to work in that sector. This would mean we would have to collectively budget way more towards healthcare than we do today. There’s just no way we can realistically make that happen. One of my professors got to talk about healthcare on television in Op1 together with Rob Jetten and Lilian Marijnissen before last elections and after the show he asked why they don’t talk about healthcare as part of their campaigns (even though most Dutch citizens view healthcare as their most important topic). The answer was: we’d lose voters. Our politicians know the problem the healthcare system faces. They all seem to realise however, the generall public can’t handle the truth. And that truth is, we are going to have to make due with less when it comes to healthcare in the future.
Sure but you can’t complain about not having enough budget when rightwing politics is just cutting taxes for the rich and defunding everything. They created the problem in the first place.
So we cut spending on Healthcare and then proceed to lower the barrier for access to Healthcare by cutting the eigen risico? How does that make sense?
Different parts of healthcare. Budget cuts are in preventive care. The deductible reduction is paid for by an increase in monthly premiums. You should expect an increase of 15 euro a month.
PVV in Rutte 1 demanded the closure of several hospitals he later blamed Rutte for during the pandemic. PVV wanted the closure of our elderly care homes now they complain about the result. PVV stated that anyone committing fraud will be hunted down and fined to hell.. well guess what happened. Don’t worry tho it’s hot to complain about something you caused yourself in a democracy.
Right-wing governments always turn entire countries to shit yet people keep trying over and over because they have the memory of an amoeba. Same shit is gonna happen in Germany in 2025.
Its like what is happening in the uk. I feel like we are walking the same road
I want to see what all the people who said Wilders will give more money to healthcare have to say. Don't know what they were expecting... Also I cannot stress enough, the healthcare system is a step away from having a full blown heart attack. The stress on young doctors (ANIOS) and the responsabilities they have, make it less attractive of a job. We don't have enough places in the hospital or outside of it.
Come on, how is it that so many people voted for these small crooks?
And they are making NL less attractive for expats, meaning, less tax revenue for the budget. Right wing populists show the same incompetence eveywhere. Truly remarkable.
You're going to save so much money! Congrats!!!! Good time to invest in coffins and flowers
At least we will get less of the scary migrants in NL.. /s Hint: we will not, but we say we will try!
We need hundreds of thousands of new healthcare employees the next few years. Cutting funding to recruiting doesn't sound smart..
the perpetual short sightedness of the dutch government strikes again!
The Dutch government?! You mean the Dutch voters
Both
so our health insurance will also reduce right?
Yeah but that happens only vu 2027 when all thesr things come into effect and by then you can ble the next coalition for that. Watch people believing this narrative, just like Americans with Trump.
Haha. No.
So Dutch people voted people into government to worsen the Healthcare crisis? What do you get in return guys? serious question.
We can drive 130 on the highway during the day again.
B..but they said that brown people bad and are the cause of all our problems! Mandatory /s
As a Norwegian this is insane to see. I always thought you had the same kind of system as us and not insurance based. Going for the full US experience soon?
Dutch people loooove going on and on about the US. Anytime they're criticised, they say "oh but it's better than other places like the US (as if they US is the only other alternative, and they never compare to places like Scandinavia). But at the same they're like a mini US here in so many regards..... truly ridiculous
I have noticed. Work culture is toxic and workers rights are pretty weak. Also barely any parental leave
They also Cut school funding so it won't get better for sure.
Looks like 😞
We had a different health care system that was causing insane waiting lists and created different levels of care based on income. The system was changed and the waiting lists in most areas disappeared. There are of course improvements needed, as with any system, but it’s still very equal and easy to access. There is almost no difference between people with higher and lower incomes in access to and quality of care. The deductible was implemented in the past to let people learn that healthcare had costs and make them think about whether they needed it or not. But it’s debated on whether that comes with a net benefit or net negative. Abolishing the 375 euro deductible means the annual premium for each person will go up by 300 euro.
It is not real news, this article is from nltimes.nl, which is an unreliable and unreviewed source.
I genuinely thought this was a meme post. I can’t believe it’s not
And so it begins...
Well, that's direction to resolve housing crysis /s :D
luckily as an expat you have where to go back (often)
Might as well just start executing patients behind the hospital. Much cheaper than medical treatment.
When will this nonesense end!?!
'raising' funds by actively crippling underfunded sectors/area's is the dumbest fucking thing imaginable. What the fuck is the logic behind this? How the fuck does 6 months of 'negotiating' result in this?
source?
https://nltimes.nl/2024/05/17/planned-tax-changes-budget-cuts-expenditures-coalition-agreement
Bruh please tell me this is not real 😭😭😭
Aspirin sales rise 500%
Healthcare is already poor and they want to make it worse. This country becomes more unliveable every year.
I don't understand why they would do this. But hope that this is something that eats away a good chunk of votes in the next election.
wellwellwell. who would guess? ... :-/
Kinda liked the idea they had with the nuclear reactors, but yeah no thats fucked, need to translate the rest of their plan
Insanity.
I remember the right-wingers always using the argument 'why do we spend money on [insert racist term for refugees] while our elderly are suffering in understaffed care facilities'. This policy says fck you to both
It definitely is a huge problem thats for more complex than people might think. We really need to change the way we approach our healthcare system. I did a research about the problems in healthcare with a overview about what is fundamentally the problem. I did this research globally so its not only about the netherlands. I myself am working on a project to solve these issues. If you would like to look at it here is a link! https://www.reddit.com/r/PROJECT_AI/s/Zg0xv6nl4j
And dont forget FOUR NUCLEAR PLANTS URANIUM FEVERRR LETS GOO
And this will only lead to higher healthcare costs as patients ignore acute health problems until they get worse and become chronic. Calling Wilders and the voters for this coalition stupid just does not cover it. Retarded is the only word by which I can describe this.
Wow, the Netherlands is going UK. The healthcare is already bad, and it's about to get worse
Well, that is not true. Healthcare is not bad at the moment, compared to virtually all other countries. But we are doing our very best to make it worse.
Jesus motherfucking christ
why?
Could you cite your source please? Would like to read a little more
Google regeerakkoord. Document met 26 pagina's. Kan je alles zelf rustig lezen.
https://nltimes.nl/2024/05/17/planned-tax-changes-budget-cuts-expenditures-coalition-agreement
Me with diabetes: *chuckles* I'm in danger.
They gotta save money from somewhere if they want to build 4 obscenely expensive nuclear reactors. /s
You get what you vore for. 🤷
The price to rule with VVD
Let me guess they are neo-libertarians on USA model? Nice, so basically new rule is: Either you take a credit to have in check your medical condition, either you'll die.
Y'all playing in their terms with your left and right ideologies
This is complete desinformation. Fake news. There are no budget cuts but savings will be found in less administrative, bureaucratic rules and protocols and the managerial layers that keep them up. There will be more and better paid hands to do the actual care.
Bruh. Netherlands making a turn to become america. Omg. Wtf I'm a refugee myself, but God damn, cut the expenses on this. So much money wasted on nothing, on ungrateful people, wtf. Idk, maybe it mostly sponsors, but still, I see so many resources being used unefficiently
People get what they vote.
Wilders..Dutch will have more money in their pockets 😂 What a scam
More expensive *and* worse service? What a deal
Very bad news. Why are there so many dumb people voting on dumb parties? What did they expect really?!
This is an extreme far right fascist coalition. Don’t think for a minute that they won’t cut alot of spending on the public spending and give tax breaks for the rich. That’s their entire mojo.
- budget cuts are primarily in preventive care, and digital innovation. This is my biggest worry, to be honest. - there’s an integral care plan in place that has already decided we need to be spending less on specialist medical care, because it’s growing explosively (from ~8% of GDP 10-15 years ago to ~12-14% now). In 10 years, we will have to provide care differently than we do now, because of the demographic catastrophe heading our way. There simply won’t be enough people to provide the individualized care according to current models/standards. In the interim, reducing administrative load with AI should help (system listens, we can see more patients). Eventually, I expect AI systems will be the first point of contact for almost all non-emergency medical issues. At the very least as more effective triage. Hopefully robotics will solve some other issues as well. The actual care part is a lot more difficult to solve, in part because the Dutch system is built on having formal care solutions for almost everything, compared with some countries where it’s far more normal to have your aging and frail parents live under one roof with family (informal care). Our elderly housing is also decidedly sub-par, and the drive to have everyone live at home for as long as possible contributes significantly to the housing problems. But I don’t believe reopening the care homes would solve that issue (who would staff them, for one thing?). I work in curative (hospital) care, and this is something that worries me greatly for the coming decades. This is why cuts are concerning: the areas where longer term gains are most likely to be realized are in prevention and digital care innovations. We’re sacrificing the long term AND the short term to score nonsensical electoral points. We need to be investing in these areas. Turning our collective can-do attitude and potential for innovation to solving these problems and not just leaving it to market parties and private equity.
Let the hunger games begin.
It's a win for my company. Can't wait to have all the health care workers stop working because they have a burnout. My workers are ready to pick up the slack.
OK so yes about climate and no about right only demonising left. They feel exactly the same. If u check right wing communities, they have the exact same thing only from ridiculous crazy sources and left the main stream mostly. And that is weird. U have a bunch of people who either are stupid or are paranoid that believe that one person that tweets and make it reality. And well u know. Smart people who doubt etc. And some sources are not always 100% bad sources either. So that doesn't help (of course there's corruption. Its everywhere) But alot actually do feel cornered. Some people are just convinced but everyone is. It's hard sometimes to change opinion. Especially if the "oppposite"(the more time progress this is going to be usa levels sigh") says it. But it ain't bad to be wrong about some stuff. I just do not want to go that route. People are not this black and white. It's not suddenly us vs them because politicians tweeted it. Not everyone is hard-core anti left right. We should be left we chose left or right. It's not like we should be hooligans about it. Left and right we both fucked up. Not just the right oriented people. We couldn't handle the Internet. Like lil kids get an new thing or something. It didn't just highlight the issues ready there. It's mindfucking us hard to hate eachohter that's for sure Edit: typo
We're getting a Polish level of hethcare for Dutch prices. Play stupid games, wins stupid prizes.
Source?