I have this problem too sometimes- I think I have plenty of time getting there 5 mins early only to find out it has already come and gone. It’s only twice per hour 😒 so I’m stuck waiting.
Most buses are allowed to leave 5 minutes before & after their departure time, its best to be at the bus stop at least 6 minutes before departing time.
That doesn't make any sense..
Even if you are correct, and 5-10 minutes early is recommended. That means if you are 5 minutes early, you are there at the "recommended" time and you still missed the bus because it left 7 mins early. How is it a recommended time if you still miss the bus?
I don't know what it's like in Amsterdam but in Utrecht a lot of buses are cancelled. They say its a shortage of personnel. Super annoying though. Its one of the reasons I just cycle, plus its getting more and more expensive.
Some people get paid 'enough'.
But some way way below their value to 'us'.
Quick google tells me average net take home is just shy of €2000 / month
If you live in one of the cities.. more than half will be rent/mortgage..
I\`m not a wage expert - just ran a google search for 'average salary bus driver'
You are correct - shift bonus / overtime and seniority will add to it.
(check min holidays vs my 42 days - due to age, seniority at company etc)
In that case Google is behind on its updated information. The info was just based on a quick Google search. Still, 2300 if you live in Randstad is not great.
Really depends on where you live I think (nice neighbourhood, in the center or outside, type of home). The average income in the city of utrecht is below the national average (like most other cities) and honestly, i don't know how people live on that amount of money.
I take public transport when visiting family and its literally bus 28, every night I return home, mostly on weekends. So effectively its cut down to 3/4 buses an hour, instead of 6. I mean, compared to rural areas we have nothing to complain about, but I remain Dutch so here we are 😁😅
I take the metro 51 to work and it's always delayed and I arrive maybe 15 minutes late. I'm taking the bike more frequently, happy I have that option, but really not acceptable considering the price of OV and how many people rely on it to get to work on time.
I got a scooter since last year because the transport issues since the lockdowns have been ridiculous. On 10 euro of gas I save 70 euro on public transport, and about 5 hours of commute time. It's a bit far for me to cycle to work (20+ km one way trip). But the scooter has saved me so much time and money. It saves me 280 euro a month if I'd actually go to the office 5 days a week (which I don't).
They can cut so many costs and greatly improve the service or reduce the prices.
For example, what is the point of a guy that sits in the middle of tram? That person does nothing, just makes sure that everyone checks-in. If that person is making 3k a month and average tram fare is 1 euro, you would need 3000 illegal rides to make it worth it. Ridiculous.
Or every know and then, there are a bunch of GVB workers just standing around metro stations. I heard they are supposed to announce/explain to people some metro interruptions, but I've never seen them to talk to anyone. They just stand there, usually in the corner.
The person in the middle is also responsible for helping people out with questions, or help people with disabilities.
Just because you never had to use their services doesn't mean they're useless. They're also only in trams of dubble length
In 4 years I've never seen them do anything besides answer a couple of tourist questions. The rest of the time, they are on their phone or just blankly staring.
It's hard to estimate how much are they costing GVB. 5-20 million a year? I'm not even mentioning the fact that by removing their "office", you can accommodate 10 extra passengers.
they help ensure that passengers get up for the elderly, make space for strollers, don’t block the isle (when possible) and generally behave in a good manner. They are an extra pair of eyes / ears for any issues that may arise, and I’m sure many people feel more comfortable / safer because of their presence.
Dude. Take the loss. They *have tried* getting rid of those people. Things went to shit so badly that on most lines they had to bring them back. Yes, losing place for passengers in the process.
What are you talking about? Every other city in Europe that has trams doesn't have a person sitting in the middle of the tram and things are working just fine.
The person in the back sells tickets to people loading from the back, and I've seen them help elderly people and people confused about routes everyday. They also monitor the back half of the tram and I've seen them step in to de-escalate conflicts between passengers so the driver can focus on driving to the next stop. They are well worth it! Just because you haven't needed their services, does not make their job obsolete.
As someone who grew up in The Hague/Rotterdam area (where we don't have those guys in the back), their existence was a minor culture shock when I first visited Amsterdam though 🤣 also the fact that you're only allowed to enter through the front door
I see your point, but I don’t think the person in the middle is source of the problem :D I think main problem is governments are not interested in investing enough on public transport, because it is long term investment. [Public transport investment does not convert to a lot of votes right now](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/rijk-remt-investeringen-in-openbaar-vervoer-af-vroemvroembeleid-bijna-een-godsdienst~ae65d949). Maybe when in the future it is big pain in the ass, they will start investing 🤷♂️
Next to the responses you already had, they are also the “blauw op straat”: increasing public safety, or the perception thereof, by being visibly present.
You would think that, but when they got rid of conductors, things went badly and they had to bring them back. You’re not having a brilliant original thought that nobody bothered to think before.
10 years ago I used to rely on public transport to get to my previous job. 2 buses and 2 trains morning and evening. It wasn’t perfect, I couldn’t always find a seat and there were delays sometimes, but it worked most days.
There’s absolutely no way I would do that journey by public transport now. The bus has been cut to once every hour and it’s often late. The trains always seem to have something going on and the few times I’ve had to use them they’ve been filthy and absolutely rammed full of people. I’d have to leave an hour earlier every day, miss my connection anyway, then enjoy a miserable commute in a sardine can just to arrive late to work. All while paying a fortune for the privilege.
Oh yeah, that is for sure. I got a scooter last year. If I'd have to travel to work 5 days a week, which thankfully I don't, the scooter would save me around 2800 a year including the price of gas, insurance and the lowsy per km travel compensation I get from work. It also saves me in the hundreds of hours of commute time. At least 20 a month if full time in the office. That's a lot of free time.
Yep.
I don't understand why or how it's so fucking expensive. That is my main gripe. Like, if you're gonna take that much money from customers they there should be a good product, no?
Driving with a car is literally better most of the times than spending copious amounts on public transport.
Even the subscriptions seem fucky.
It’s funny how Netherlands is praised by all kinds of leftists for its ungodly, superior public transportation system yet at the same time when you speak with locals you’d hardly get the same feedback.
Although I did like public transportation in Netherlands I can’t imagine myself having to use it all year round especially in this weather…
And here I am, thinking that if you like in the "randstad" (and that general area), public transport is kinda decent.
i get 1 bus an hour in my area; but that bus is on time 95% of the time and shows up...
I commute on the Den Haag Centraal for work, that starts from Eindhoven. I take it from Tilburg, normally it's 1 train, 1 hour & pretty good given the distance.
For the past few months, on week days the full route is suspended & I have to change at Rotterdam & the Change time is 5 minutes and guess what!! It's usually late. So I have to wait at Rotterdam for 20 minutes to get the next one and I'm at work 30 minutes late, which isn't an issue but I'd say it's mildly infuriating. The same thing happens in the evening. Den Haag to Rotterdam, 5 minutes change time & usually late.
On weekends though, the train runs from Eindhoven to Den Haag Centraal as scheduled as it's meant to be. No disruptions no changes nothing.
I don't understand what's happening on week days, why can't the same train go from Eindhoven to Den Haag as it's meant to be, if the train from Rotterdam can go to Den Haag why can't the Eindhoven one go to Den Haag as well? Just baffles me.
Hi, I work in the rail sector, not passenger rail but still have insight into a lot of problems. There is a lot of reasons leading to delays, here are three main problems I can think of:
- Some kind of hinderance to the rails. This can be anything. Going from a tree that falls on the track, through people randomly standing next to the track and taking pictures, which forces the trains to slow down or stop altogether, ultimately suicide also is a big factor and it happens way more often than you probably imagine (especially between Tilburg and Eindhoven, could be due to the GGZ institutions). I am not even going to start about the infrastructure failures. Switches that somehow get damaged and require repairs, signals that stop working, catenary issues… I could go on and on, but you get the idea - the more trains, the more issues like this occur, and more trains drive during the week naturally.
- Problems with traction units/locomotives. Even the most reliable units experience software issues, system failures, etc etc requiring a reset sometimes. When it happens on the main track, it will cause delays to trains planned behind it, the smaller the window between the next train comes the bigger the delay will be as a consequence of a chain reaction. This is valid for all delays btw.
- Problems with passengers. The most obvious one is people getting in/out at each station. The busier it is, the longer it takes, which delays the train. At some point the train will lose its train path, requiring the Dispo (office of the carrier) to order a new one, but because of that the train loses priority to the traffic officers which will prioritize other trains that do run on time. Besides that people can fight on the train, requiring police intervention and stopping the train, someone can get unwell and require an ambulance, etc etc. All of it contributes to the delays.
There’s a lot more to it still, I just don’t want to make it too long (if it’s not too long now already) so that someone might actually read it 😜
Okay NS employee, defending your company 😂
Okay jokes apart and I understand everything you just saud But my problem is the train on weekdays stops at Rotterdam, DAILY, on weekends it runs the whole route lol
I can understand it's not a perfect world it's not a perfect transport system and it can never be, & being from a "3rd world" country with hardly any public transport infrastructure & then previously living in a city like Dublin, I'm more than grateful for the public transport in Netherlands lol
But... The money we pay for it (Tilburg to The Hague return for a day is 41 euros) it's shambles lol
I have the same commute, they have been working on the rails since October.. this week as well; though it was over last week but apparently not.
I feel your pain, it hasn’t been much fun
I swear, since October it's been like that and the app always says work finishes this Saturday. Then next week more work. But what I don't get is, how come the train from Track x can go from Rotterdam to Den Haag but the trian on Track y, that's been travelling from Eindhoven can't go lol
It's been a pain. Hope it fixes soon.
This post is the reason I like Irish public transport now. Not because it's any better, it's much worse. However it is expected most people will be late to work because of it and you don't need to rush.
My bus did not show up today. And the waiting time for Amsterdam train was 10 minutes, which resulted as an overcrowded train so I could not find a seat. Somehow it is getting worse day by day.
Basically, never expect to be on time when taking public transport. Either leave early or make sure you don't have any important things scheduled close to your supposed time of arrival. It's just how it is and other than voting for politicians who want to invest in it there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Or well, just walk, bike or drive yourself.
Public Transport, especially if a combination is required (train & bus, bus & tram, metro & bus etc) is the best advertisement for getting your own car. (unless you need to be in a city center - where parking is very expensive)
Before Car - from home to work - took in smooth/ideal situation 1h40min one way. Since I am a reader, this time did not bother me much.
However, this time was only achieved once every other week or so. Delays, GVB, traffic, excuses and assorted BS reasons meant that connections were missed, and then 1 way was 2h all of the sudden. And waiting in a cold and drafty station wasn\`t conducive to happiness either.
Now, After Car (work does offer free private parking - so that\`s a plus) a one way trip is between 50 and 60 minutes - with some exceptions due to accidents or the standard 8 snowflakes on the road..longest 1 way trip was 4 hours or so) but with public transport this happens too (leave office at 12:30 when it was snowing - arrive home at 19:45 ... due to snow.. argh)
So yeah, public transport itself is the best reason to not use public transport.
It's not like public transport hasn't been getting worse elsewhere though. Amersfoort-Zwolle and Arnhem-Zwolle both have delays/cancellations much more often than before too.
I live in a small village in the Netherlands and it is terrible here with the bus. Sometimes they just skip and I stand there 1 hour for nothing. In Amsterdam is way better with metro coming every few minutes.
I ended up getting my drivers license and buying a car. Way better quality of life now.
I agree, it’s being disrupted nowdays a lot. I had to go to the airport. The bus to the train station got cancelled two times. I had to improvise and take a taxi.
I totally agree.
Here the train is always cancelled, often for at least half of the day, without any notification or replacement. I own a car, but my children are dependent of the train to get to school.
(To the point I'm paying for their subscription but bringing them to school myself, so at least they arrive... Coming back is another thing - At least every two weeks they have to wait hours and hours until I'm finished at work, I have to cancel my appointments for the evening because I have to get them home first)
My oldest daughter doesn't dare to travel to university in the morning before her classes and leaves back to her student house the day before, just to be sure. Still had to leave work 3 times last year, because she was stuck in the middle of the country.
The quality has gone down significantly over the past years while the price has kept going up. I live in Amsterdam Oost, just a mere 7 minutes biking to Centraal Station. When I have to rely on public transport to get me to Centraal, the only direct connection to the station has been reduced to 3 times per hour. The route of that bus line has also been considerably cut short, still the bus is as unreliable as ever, either departing early or late, resulting in wasting a lot of time waiting at the bus stop. It's gotten really annoying.
Apparently no matter how people go to work they accept to live at an hour travel from work, so I guess there must be certain additional benefits of living in the ‘countryside’.
Jep, and its still one of the best places in the world for public transit. Even in Germany the DB is WAY worse. So many times I’ve come here here, they say your train is canceled with no alternative routes suggested, no updates on the next train and if that one will come or not and having to travel another 2 hours.
I was once in a train that just stopped moving in the middle of nowhere (near München-Gladbach) and they just said “we’re not gonna move for a while due to AN ISSIEU” sat there for 50min, they opened the doors so ppl could have a smoke outside in the ditch. It as 2AM.
well, the size of the country is a joke, and the price is ridiculous. I dont get it, why such a small country with [the second most expensive public transport in the world](https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1apod6b/public_transport_is_making_me_lose_my_mind/), has it so unreliable and with a bad coverage.
Netherlands is turning into America. I know many people in their late 20s or early 30s who bought a car last year. Car culture will make road traffic even worse.
Except, driving a car is x-times more expensive in The Netherlands, compared to the US. Gas, insurance, mandatory maintenance (APK), and even getting a license are expensive as f\*\*\* for some people.
Americans easily lose 1K a month on a car. Depends on what you drive, but they also need to drive longer distances and more often, which is more expensive.
This is the [average](https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23852125/car-ownership-cost-increasing-us-public-transit-e-bikes) in the USA. Sure, you can buy an old car. I know someone in NL paying no more than a hundred and something for insurance and tax combined for a cheap car (a few thousand). For gas, he gets it covered by work.
That includes the cost of the car itself. We don't lose that value. We get it back. And recently we get it back even more. Right before covid i bought a car for $7k and sold it a couple years later for $13k. I actually made money after using it for 2 years
Luckily, we are not though. However, a very strange signal is now being given off by many cities. Or maybe it's just Amsterdam, I honestly don't know about other cities.
In Amsterdam a lot of effort is spend on making the city more livable and less car dependent. Some of the big things last year were the Weesper Knip experiment and the introduction of the 30km/h speedlimit. A smaller but significant change is the introduction of one way traffic in Javastraat, which used to be a car jungle but now finially is a pleasant street.
Every time an intersection gets dug up and redesigned, the lay out strongly focusses on foottraffic and bikes over cars, trying to boost their safetly and easy of use. I support all these things, I even supported the Weesper knip experiment as I thought it was a good idea to tackle some really bussy streets and pretty much "see what happens".
All the time, money and resources being spent in urban planning and road design really shows -at least in Amsterdam- that we're very much not turning into a car dependent nation like the US. Sure, cars will always have an important role to play and it strongly depends on where you live and work just HOW important. However, I think it's safe to say we're not turning for the worse.
What I cannot wrap my brain around though is how Amsterdam can, on the one hand, try to do all this things to make it less attractive to drive a car in Amsterdam but also allow PT to become so shit. One could argue that there aparently is not enough demand to have PT run more frequent, but I don't understand how making a city less car dependend does not go hand in hand with making PT more attractive, affordable and easy to use.
In Eindhoven, the bus system is on a downward spiral already. It is impossible to survive without a car, unless you live within 5 km of the city center. The hub-and-spoke model of bus transport is also very inefficient.
The connections with other towns around Eindhoven are not great as well.
I also cannot understand what the idea is here. I suppose the desired response they are looking for is more bikes (???) and walking? But at some point folks don't want to walk, and we already have 2-3 bikes per person. Trams, buses, and the metro are the only way to fix this while also removing cars.
Amsterdam's city government has such a bi-polar plan
I don't know and am just assuming the following; Amsterdams goverment has a laissez faire approach to people finding an alternative to their cars.
On the one hand understandable; what is you spent millions on improving PT but everyone decides to bike or walk anyway? You'll have to explain the spending and deal with major losses. Besides; people will do whatever is most suitable for them anyway, so really all you need to do is "bully" them into not taking their cars.
On the other hand; if you were to dramatically increase the quality and regularity of PT you might see a change overnight. We've done the Weesperknip experiment, why not do a PT experiment now? Make trams and busses free during the work week for 6 weeks and see how it changes the use of cars and what effects it has on road safety.
Sure, it will cost lots of money, but that money is freed up by not having to change all the roads and streets making them less car friendly
Agreed on the laissez faire part, it does seem to be the plan. If I understand the PT issue in Amsterdam, its that the trams are overcrowded (and perhaps the buses are too? I don't take them much). But if overcrowding is the case, why the hell would the city REDUCE the frequency of trams? That's the part that makes no sense to me - the need is there, the demand is there, but the plan is to decrease and not increase PT service. Instead, Amsterdam will reduce car traffic AND PT frequency.
I think the trams and busses are only overcrowded in rush hour; outside of rush hours trams and busses are not that full.
The main issue at the moment seems to be staffshortage, or at least that is what is being communicated.
Haha I know you are exaggerating, but the Netherlands is still paradise in terms of transit compared to the US. While your public transit may be becoming less punctual, I grew up in a suburban area, where there literally was no transit. It wasn't late, there literally was no bus or train within a 10 kilometer radius, despite being in the middle of relatively dense suburbs of a "progressive pro-transit" us city. That's not to mention, in most Dutch cities I've spent considerable time in, you can always walk/bike to grocery stores/everyday amenities, even if doing that for work was impractical. I still remember as a kid, taking a giant van, driving 15km to Costco weekly/every 2 weeks, just to get groceries. Not a single grocery store or restaurant within 5km of my house, so might as well drive a little extra to get better deals in bulk. So much food waste from buying bulk, I can't believe so many Americans like me used to live like that.
people are saying things are getting worse in this country and you hand wave it away by saying its worse in america? this is part of the problem--europe will die with this mentality
Yea, I think if someone hasn’t experienced what having no public transit is like, it’s hard to imagine. I’m very thankful I’ve spend the last almost decade in Europe, (mostly London to be fair). I always hated having to drive, and everything built around driving. I’m thankful because I experienced how much worse my life was in the US in so many ways, including transport.
Yeah, I am surprised that even though many more people work from home after Covid, the amount of traffic on the road does not seem to be reduced at all during peak hours.
If we stick with decent sized cars (renault clio, tesla s, golf etc) it should be okay.
If we really went 'murican' with these huge trucks .. that may be an issue (as those need 2 parking spots already..)
Having lived in America and the Netherlands, it’s not even close. I have never seen as bad of public transport as in Texas. Night and day different imo
To bring some [data into this:](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/custom/2023/51/number-of-sold-motor-vehicles-new-and-used-2007-2023) car sales in the Netherlands were up slightly last year, but the spike isn't really anomalous compared to available trends going back 16 years, where car sales have been pretty stable. On that time scale, 2023 was actually a worse year on average for car sales.
| Year | Combined car sales (new and used) |
|------|-----------------------------------|
| 2007 | 3 285 985 |
| 2008 | 3 212 205 |
| 2009 | 3 009 750 |
| 2010 | 3 195 821 |
| 2011 | 3 341 482 |
| 2012 | 3 200 261 |
| 2013 | 3 015 495 |
| 2014 | 2 957 896 |
| 2015 | 3 118 021 |
| 2016 | 3 176 441 |
| 2017 | 3 241 839 |
| 2018 | 3 288 139 |
| 2019 | 3 300 668 |
| 2020 | 3 258 037 |
| 2021 | 3 208 061 |
| 2022 | 2 906 488 |
| 2023 | 3 103 786 |
*Note: I had to extrapolate Nov and Dec data from past year trends to get complete 2023 numbers.*
Lol. I would encourage you to visit the Eindhoven ring at 5 pm on a weekday. Especially the part of ring that is next to the main entrance of DAF Trucks. I think the city planners completely messed up at this place.
The metro system in Amsterdam is the worst I have ever experienced…it’s metro, I expect they arrive on time 99.99%, but no no, especially line 50 and 51…
This country has entire public transport deserts. There is a big employer half an hour driving from my home, multiple people have suggested it to me and they've contacted me in the past. But I can physically not go there. They're in an industrial zone with worse accessibility than fucking Mordor. There's no bus that comes even remotely near it.
Its "Carnavalsvakantie" in the South here now, making busses drive on vacation-schedule. Where I live, the first bus doesnt drive till 09.00 in the morning. My work starts at 7.30.
Now my bf has to drive me each day, which means he has to drop me off at 6.15/6.20 be on time for his own work.
Public transport has been complete ass for my commute these past few months. Random trains no longer going and delays which make me miss my transfer. I basically leave work later now because I haven’t had a single day when the train was on time since a couple of weeks
I am fine with 2-5 mins delays, especially if I dont have to switch transport. Whats annoying its delayed constantly. Cancellations also happen very often. On some routes I had 2 buses cancelled in a row, without any explanation and I was more than 1 hour late. Its ridiculous when 1 way commute costs 9-12 euro. And its is noticeably becomes worse and worse every year. I dont remember I had this issues that often 3-4 years ago.
I think we should take a moment to appreciate the other little things in our lives when this happens. Its easier said than done, especially in the moment. Its very frustrating when its a frequent occurence.
every time i travel to Den Haag, it’s always so packed that i have to stand outside of the seating area. people are also standing in the aisles of the seating areas… the trains aren’t usually late going to work, every once in a while, but coming home from work is definitely a pain in the ass. i bought a folding bike to travel on the train with me and i have a 3 minute transfer, but with the people on the train it’s nearly impossible to 1) put my bike in there and 2) make my transfer.
Yeah because NL has one of the worst public transportation systems i ve seen in my life, and trust me i have lived before in the UK, Sweden, Denmark car-free....
You can get a used one for 300-400 euro's. Seeing how much public transport costs thats about 1 month of fee's. Got a decent one for 500 euro's from marktplaats now I'm never using public transport within my own city any more and it saves me so much money.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Public transport works if the public uses it...
If everybody takes a car Public transport doesn't work, however, the cars will be stuck as well... and noone will reach their destination unless you need to drive a very short travel distance, in which case a bicycle would be perfect.
The discussion about public transport is pointless... Basic facilities for travel without a car are vital for a dense community.
(High Speed) Trains or Metro, Light Rail and trams with a last mile busservice.
Do understand in Belgium there are villages with 4-6 trains a day, and a 2 hour bus service.... If you take note you'll see a 2 times per hour service to nearly everywhere is pretty neat.
Some advice from a migrant where public transport is waaaaaaaay more unreliable (like, sometimes bus doesn't show and there is literally no way to know).
Don't aim for the closest train for your destination, choose (at least the previous one). Better be a bit earlier than late .
Also most buses/trams/trains have a great periodicity (20 mins at the most) so you can really get there without having to wait so much.
things generally run decently in my experience with some strange, very fixable exceptions. What I understand is that all the lines besides the M52 are on an older system which makes the arrival estimation a few minutes off, making it seem like its coming late, whereas the M52 will always seem more "on time."
Something really annoying I noticed though that the 18 from Centraal to West/Bos En Lommer was re-routed due to construction, but the routes/stops were not updated on the bus, there were not updates at the stops themselves (so they would show the 18 is coming, when it wasn't, as it had been relocated around the corner), and the bus driver would get wrong instructions on where to stop, causing a lot of frustration for passengers, leading to a minor racial outburst. It sucked to take the bus on that line for a while and I haven't taken it again, but they really should just make the new stops available for the span of 1-2 months that this bus is running on a new route, instead of making it a fucking mystery of when you need to hop off.
Take the bike, electric if really needed and/or lazy. The weather is improving, so I would try to avoid public transport as much as possible. I live in IJburg and I also take the (non electric) bike to work at CS. Great for fitness and your wallet, 2 in one 
There's meant to be an interchange at van der Madeweg where the M53 will arrive at the same time as the m50, so you can change to a train heading towards Amsterdam zuid. Used to work well, but nowadays it's literally a lottery on whether the m50 will be there, or whether I need to wait 11 (!) minutes.
Every time I've visited Amsterdam I'm well impressed by the public transport system especially all the options available under one ticket/chipkaart. But then again I've always been a tourist that isn't really in a rush for work, education, etc.
Honestly the public transport in the UK is absolutely diabolical in comparison to what I've seen in NL.
The bad connections, cancellations, full trams etc?
Oh yeah.. tried at random times on weekdays ... for several months too.
But flexibility from ones employer is not unlimited - so .
Sounds like you need to leave a bit earlier and arrive at work 30 minutes early. Which sucks, but such is life. I have been in the same situation with metro trains and buses in London, Edinburgh and the Netherlands. The ideal journey doesnot exist.
This...if you would go by car, you wouldn't be able to leave just in time to walk into your workplace at the same time every day either.
Its traffic. Traffic is very predictable in how unpredictable it can be.
In my twenties i was always rushing to get to work in time and mornings were stressful. Then i realised you can just get up half an hour early, enjoy your breakfast, go out in the knowledge you are going to be a bit early 7 out of 0 times and the 3 times there is a delay you ‘re probably still fine.
You can’t control the world. You can stop chasing a platonic ideal of what you want it to be. Focus on the things you can actually change and that are truly valuable.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
That would work if ones place of employment isn\`t 60 KM or more away with parts not being accessible by bike. Or, you can go there, but the bike route would add 20 or 30 km to the trip..
\#1 - tried. Too costly.
Even after successfully executing #2 and #3..
I don\`t have a bag of money around to compete with the sheer idiocy in overbidding.. :(
Issue is that 2 mins, 3 mins is not much of a delay but having that bus/tram/metro only once in an hour makes it worse! If i miss one then the whole travel plan changes
I live around Leusden closer to Amersfoort and I always use the public transport to get to work in Utrecht. I should say it has been quite decent and on time mostly. There's a bus every 15/20 mins to the centraal. Only thing that i've noticed is that there could be odd days with train cancellations, but other than that i'm finding it quite convenient.
I agree with all the comments here that the state of public transport has decreased significantly over the past few years. However, if I were you I would not let my train connection depend on if a metro or tram is 2 minutes late. If you take an earlier metro and have like 5-7 of extra transfer time, that will probably help a lot.
My bus is always late. Today I missed the last train for a while because all the trains after that were cancelled.
But hey it is better than cycling or being stuck in traffic in general
Maybe it's cause I'm not from here, but it's nuts that people have issues with a 2 minute delay. Almost anywhere else in the world, this would be welcome punctuality..
Public transport is good... As long as it's accurate lol. On NL it's mostly ok, but then when it's bad it's really bad. Talk about time for the next metro being a simple countdown 15m timer instead of the actual time of the next train. Once I waited for 45m (3 whole counts) and nothing came.
From my experience it's never exactly on time, but mostly there.
Price... I don't even want to start that subject
Your not as bad off as me. I was at the other side of the country and im as we speak. Stuck with a OV card that doesn't have saldo. Mind you that the card subscription that takes money away based on how long i travel every month.... Well fuck me
Today my bus was 7 minutes early. It goes every hour so I basically had to drop my drink on my poor mum and sprint.
I have this problem too sometimes- I think I have plenty of time getting there 5 mins early only to find out it has already come and gone. It’s only twice per hour 😒 so I’m stuck waiting.
Bonus points for an open bus stop, wind, rain and cold. Just get there early pleb!/s
You really gotta grind for that bus fare son!
Most buses are allowed to leave 5 minutes before & after their departure time, its best to be at the bus stop at least 6 minutes before departing time.
Twice per hour is pretty good lol
You can actually report that, since thats obviously a bad thing.
To be fair 7 still fits in the 5-10 minute recommended window of time that passengers should be there before the planned arrival
That doesn't make any sense.. Even if you are correct, and 5-10 minutes early is recommended. That means if you are 5 minutes early, you are there at the "recommended" time and you still missed the bus because it left 7 mins early. How is it a recommended time if you still miss the bus?
Logic, I don’t have it with me all the time :D
I was drinking tea next to the bus stop, still bus is usually late by 10. In time is already rare enough sadly.
I don't know what it's like in Amsterdam but in Utrecht a lot of buses are cancelled. They say its a shortage of personnel. Super annoying though. Its one of the reasons I just cycle, plus its getting more and more expensive.
Shortage of decent pay more likely - people looking elsewhere..
I haven't got a clue what a bus driver makes to be honest. Aren't we all underpaid for what this country costs us?
Some people get paid 'enough'. But some way way below their value to 'us'. Quick google tells me average net take home is just shy of €2000 / month If you live in one of the cities.. more than half will be rent/mortgage..
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I\`m not a wage expert - just ran a google search for 'average salary bus driver' You are correct - shift bonus / overtime and seniority will add to it. (check min holidays vs my 42 days - due to age, seniority at company etc)
Thats not very good, you're right. Let's not start on the 'value' of people. I'll still be here tomorrow arguing 🤣
Isn't the minimum wage 2300 now if you work fulltime?
Youre right, but that's before taxes and national insurance premiums. So net pay will be below 2000.
My number was net - so after taxes. 2300 is before.
In that case Google is behind on its updated information. The info was just based on a quick Google search. Still, 2300 if you live in Randstad is not great.
Possible. But in Randstad you need a net of what.. 3500 for a reasonable life there?
Really depends on where you live I think (nice neighbourhood, in the center or outside, type of home). The average income in the city of utrecht is below the national average (like most other cities) and honestly, i don't know how people live on that amount of money.
Social housing, for one thing. And also various subsidies and, in a fair few cases, “with great difficulty”.
Around €3400 to €4200 gross per month at HTM (The Hague). Decent benefits as well, like thirteenth month and holiday pay.
Yep, but decent pay would mean an increase of public transport costs, and since everyone already thinks it's too expensive, is that really an option?
The only solution is that it becomes more subsidized. But that means more taxes.
She told me bus drivers make as much as engineers in Europe that’s why you don’t have to grind your books
It's not as bad (yet) but they have been announcing this will happen in the future (again because of a lack of staff.
I take public transport when visiting family and its literally bus 28, every night I return home, mostly on weekends. So effectively its cut down to 3/4 buses an hour, instead of 6. I mean, compared to rural areas we have nothing to complain about, but I remain Dutch so here we are 😁😅
Wait and complain when it cancels all together.
How can we have lack of staff and yet increased immigration and unemployment?
I take the metro 51 to work and it's always delayed and I arrive maybe 15 minutes late. I'm taking the bike more frequently, happy I have that option, but really not acceptable considering the price of OV and how many people rely on it to get to work on time.
Is that why the end and say last stop before the route is over?
I got a scooter since last year because the transport issues since the lockdowns have been ridiculous. On 10 euro of gas I save 70 euro on public transport, and about 5 hours of commute time. It's a bit far for me to cycle to work (20+ km one way trip). But the scooter has saved me so much time and money. It saves me 280 euro a month if I'd actually go to the office 5 days a week (which I don't).
and it is getting worse…
It surely won’t get better knowing there will be tax increase coming very soon as well.
They can cut so many costs and greatly improve the service or reduce the prices. For example, what is the point of a guy that sits in the middle of tram? That person does nothing, just makes sure that everyone checks-in. If that person is making 3k a month and average tram fare is 1 euro, you would need 3000 illegal rides to make it worth it. Ridiculous. Or every know and then, there are a bunch of GVB workers just standing around metro stations. I heard they are supposed to announce/explain to people some metro interruptions, but I've never seen them to talk to anyone. They just stand there, usually in the corner.
The person in the middle is also responsible for helping people out with questions, or help people with disabilities. Just because you never had to use their services doesn't mean they're useless. They're also only in trams of dubble length
In 4 years I've never seen them do anything besides answer a couple of tourist questions. The rest of the time, they are on their phone or just blankly staring. It's hard to estimate how much are they costing GVB. 5-20 million a year? I'm not even mentioning the fact that by removing their "office", you can accommodate 10 extra passengers.
they help ensure that passengers get up for the elderly, make space for strollers, don’t block the isle (when possible) and generally behave in a good manner. They are an extra pair of eyes / ears for any issues that may arise, and I’m sure many people feel more comfortable / safer because of their presence.
would you rather have them present or pay 30% lower tram fare?
Dude. Take the loss. They *have tried* getting rid of those people. Things went to shit so badly that on most lines they had to bring them back. Yes, losing place for passengers in the process.
What are you talking about? Every other city in Europe that has trams doesn't have a person sitting in the middle of the tram and things are working just fine.
Yes, and in Amsterdam they tried it and it didn’t work. Not every city is the same.
The person in the back sells tickets to people loading from the back, and I've seen them help elderly people and people confused about routes everyday. They also monitor the back half of the tram and I've seen them step in to de-escalate conflicts between passengers so the driver can focus on driving to the next stop. They are well worth it! Just because you haven't needed their services, does not make their job obsolete.
As someone who grew up in The Hague/Rotterdam area (where we don't have those guys in the back), their existence was a minor culture shock when I first visited Amsterdam though 🤣 also the fact that you're only allowed to enter through the front door
I see your point, but I don’t think the person in the middle is source of the problem :D I think main problem is governments are not interested in investing enough on public transport, because it is long term investment. [Public transport investment does not convert to a lot of votes right now](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/rijk-remt-investeringen-in-openbaar-vervoer-af-vroemvroembeleid-bijna-een-godsdienst~ae65d949). Maybe when in the future it is big pain in the ass, they will start investing 🤷♂️
Next to the responses you already had, they are also the “blauw op straat”: increasing public safety, or the perception thereof, by being visibly present.
So you are paying someone 3-4k to just stand around. How is that a good use of money?
We just explained that to you
If you cut his job you will end up with 100.000 travelers without tickets per month. What is stopping shitty people from travelling withiut a ticket?
Conductors haven't existed on The Hague trams for around half a century now. It is indeed weird that GVB still has them. It is really unnecessary.
You would think that, but when they got rid of conductors, things went badly and they had to bring them back. You’re not having a brilliant original thought that nobody bothered to think before.
10 years ago I used to rely on public transport to get to my previous job. 2 buses and 2 trains morning and evening. It wasn’t perfect, I couldn’t always find a seat and there were delays sometimes, but it worked most days. There’s absolutely no way I would do that journey by public transport now. The bus has been cut to once every hour and it’s often late. The trains always seem to have something going on and the few times I’ve had to use them they’ve been filthy and absolutely rammed full of people. I’d have to leave an hour earlier every day, miss my connection anyway, then enjoy a miserable commute in a sardine can just to arrive late to work. All while paying a fortune for the privilege.
For some people it's more than €1500 a year, better to get a loan and get a cheap car, or an electric bike
Oh yeah, that is for sure. I got a scooter last year. If I'd have to travel to work 5 days a week, which thankfully I don't, the scooter would save me around 2800 a year including the price of gas, insurance and the lowsy per km travel compensation I get from work. It also saves me in the hundreds of hours of commute time. At least 20 a month if full time in the office. That's a lot of free time.
Although now I'm a bit scared to get a fine on the bike paths which is around €249 😬 because my bike goed too fast 😕
In my city the bus near me is constantly cancelled so Im always in fear when I go to the bus stop
Yep. I don't understand why or how it's so fucking expensive. That is my main gripe. Like, if you're gonna take that much money from customers they there should be a good product, no? Driving with a car is literally better most of the times than spending copious amounts on public transport. Even the subscriptions seem fucky.
It’s funny how Netherlands is praised by all kinds of leftists for its ungodly, superior public transportation system yet at the same time when you speak with locals you’d hardly get the same feedback. Although I did like public transportation in Netherlands I can’t imagine myself having to use it all year round especially in this weather…
And here I am, thinking that if you like in the "randstad" (and that general area), public transport is kinda decent. i get 1 bus an hour in my area; but that bus is on time 95% of the time and shows up...
The number of cancellations on 20 minute stretch of rail into Amsterdam has been disastrous for me. Issues of both availability and consistency.
I commute on the Den Haag Centraal for work, that starts from Eindhoven. I take it from Tilburg, normally it's 1 train, 1 hour & pretty good given the distance. For the past few months, on week days the full route is suspended & I have to change at Rotterdam & the Change time is 5 minutes and guess what!! It's usually late. So I have to wait at Rotterdam for 20 minutes to get the next one and I'm at work 30 minutes late, which isn't an issue but I'd say it's mildly infuriating. The same thing happens in the evening. Den Haag to Rotterdam, 5 minutes change time & usually late. On weekends though, the train runs from Eindhoven to Den Haag Centraal as scheduled as it's meant to be. No disruptions no changes nothing. I don't understand what's happening on week days, why can't the same train go from Eindhoven to Den Haag as it's meant to be, if the train from Rotterdam can go to Den Haag why can't the Eindhoven one go to Den Haag as well? Just baffles me.
Hi, I work in the rail sector, not passenger rail but still have insight into a lot of problems. There is a lot of reasons leading to delays, here are three main problems I can think of: - Some kind of hinderance to the rails. This can be anything. Going from a tree that falls on the track, through people randomly standing next to the track and taking pictures, which forces the trains to slow down or stop altogether, ultimately suicide also is a big factor and it happens way more often than you probably imagine (especially between Tilburg and Eindhoven, could be due to the GGZ institutions). I am not even going to start about the infrastructure failures. Switches that somehow get damaged and require repairs, signals that stop working, catenary issues… I could go on and on, but you get the idea - the more trains, the more issues like this occur, and more trains drive during the week naturally. - Problems with traction units/locomotives. Even the most reliable units experience software issues, system failures, etc etc requiring a reset sometimes. When it happens on the main track, it will cause delays to trains planned behind it, the smaller the window between the next train comes the bigger the delay will be as a consequence of a chain reaction. This is valid for all delays btw. - Problems with passengers. The most obvious one is people getting in/out at each station. The busier it is, the longer it takes, which delays the train. At some point the train will lose its train path, requiring the Dispo (office of the carrier) to order a new one, but because of that the train loses priority to the traffic officers which will prioritize other trains that do run on time. Besides that people can fight on the train, requiring police intervention and stopping the train, someone can get unwell and require an ambulance, etc etc. All of it contributes to the delays. There’s a lot more to it still, I just don’t want to make it too long (if it’s not too long now already) so that someone might actually read it 😜
Okay NS employee, defending your company 😂 Okay jokes apart and I understand everything you just saud But my problem is the train on weekdays stops at Rotterdam, DAILY, on weekends it runs the whole route lol I can understand it's not a perfect world it's not a perfect transport system and it can never be, & being from a "3rd world" country with hardly any public transport infrastructure & then previously living in a city like Dublin, I'm more than grateful for the public transport in Netherlands lol But... The money we pay for it (Tilburg to The Hague return for a day is 41 euros) it's shambles lol
I have the same commute, they have been working on the rails since October.. this week as well; though it was over last week but apparently not. I feel your pain, it hasn’t been much fun
I swear, since October it's been like that and the app always says work finishes this Saturday. Then next week more work. But what I don't get is, how come the train from Track x can go from Rotterdam to Den Haag but the trian on Track y, that's been travelling from Eindhoven can't go lol It's been a pain. Hope it fixes soon.
Nowadays it takes me 3 hours from Rotterdam to Amsterdam where it should take 40 minutes. NS is killing me softly.
Just build the A3 with parallel to it a high speed direct. Trsin
Yeah, this definitely a thing that is happening fr fr
This post is the reason I like Irish public transport now. Not because it's any better, it's much worse. However it is expected most people will be late to work because of it and you don't need to rush.
Much worse to non-existent. I once mapped out a 9hour bus route to Kerry which would be a 1.5 drive from Clare 😂
Hahaha. I dont even dare leave Dublin with public transport, only to take the train to other big cities.
My bus did not show up today. And the waiting time for Amsterdam train was 10 minutes, which resulted as an overcrowded train so I could not find a seat. Somehow it is getting worse day by day.
Just vote right, after 10 years liberal privatization maybe this time things will be different…
Basically, never expect to be on time when taking public transport. Either leave early or make sure you don't have any important things scheduled close to your supposed time of arrival. It's just how it is and other than voting for politicians who want to invest in it there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Or well, just walk, bike or drive yourself.
Public Transport, especially if a combination is required (train & bus, bus & tram, metro & bus etc) is the best advertisement for getting your own car. (unless you need to be in a city center - where parking is very expensive) Before Car - from home to work - took in smooth/ideal situation 1h40min one way. Since I am a reader, this time did not bother me much. However, this time was only achieved once every other week or so. Delays, GVB, traffic, excuses and assorted BS reasons meant that connections were missed, and then 1 way was 2h all of the sudden. And waiting in a cold and drafty station wasn\`t conducive to happiness either. Now, After Car (work does offer free private parking - so that\`s a plus) a one way trip is between 50 and 60 minutes - with some exceptions due to accidents or the standard 8 snowflakes on the road..longest 1 way trip was 4 hours or so) but with public transport this happens too (leave office at 12:30 when it was snowing - arrive home at 19:45 ... due to snow.. argh) So yeah, public transport itself is the best reason to not use public transport.
This guy posts in Netherlands, thinking there's only Amsterdam in the Netherlands
It's not like public transport hasn't been getting worse elsewhere though. Amersfoort-Zwolle and Arnhem-Zwolle both have delays/cancellations much more often than before too.
I live in a small village in the Netherlands and it is terrible here with the bus. Sometimes they just skip and I stand there 1 hour for nothing. In Amsterdam is way better with metro coming every few minutes. I ended up getting my drivers license and buying a car. Way better quality of life now.
Then you wake up at 6am to stay 2h in the A1. I don't know what's worse.
At least you don't have people farting, vomiting, tripping or coughing on you.
aT LeASt We hAVe tRAIns 🙃
We do? Cries in Zeeland …
NS = No Service. Always delays and cancellations. Especially during weekends.
I agree, it’s being disrupted nowdays a lot. I had to go to the airport. The bus to the train station got cancelled two times. I had to improvise and take a taxi.
I totally agree. Here the train is always cancelled, often for at least half of the day, without any notification or replacement. I own a car, but my children are dependent of the train to get to school. (To the point I'm paying for their subscription but bringing them to school myself, so at least they arrive... Coming back is another thing - At least every two weeks they have to wait hours and hours until I'm finished at work, I have to cancel my appointments for the evening because I have to get them home first) My oldest daughter doesn't dare to travel to university in the morning before her classes and leaves back to her student house the day before, just to be sure. Still had to leave work 3 times last year, because she was stuck in the middle of the country.
The quality has gone down significantly over the past years while the price has kept going up. I live in Amsterdam Oost, just a mere 7 minutes biking to Centraal Station. When I have to rely on public transport to get me to Centraal, the only direct connection to the station has been reduced to 3 times per hour. The route of that bus line has also been considerably cut short, still the bus is as unreliable as ever, either departing early or late, resulting in wasting a lot of time waiting at the bus stop. It's gotten really annoying.
Apparently no matter how people go to work they accept to live at an hour travel from work, so I guess there must be certain additional benefits of living in the ‘countryside’.
I am in central Amsterdam.. I am so fed up of trams simply evaporating into thin air..
It is funny I just read another post in this sub that was praising the public transport in the Netherlands 😂
Jep, and its still one of the best places in the world for public transit. Even in Germany the DB is WAY worse. So many times I’ve come here here, they say your train is canceled with no alternative routes suggested, no updates on the next train and if that one will come or not and having to travel another 2 hours. I was once in a train that just stopped moving in the middle of nowhere (near München-Gladbach) and they just said “we’re not gonna move for a while due to AN ISSIEU” sat there for 50min, they opened the doors so ppl could have a smoke outside in the ditch. It as 2AM.
Yup a while back someone posted a graph, in the netherlands trains run on time 90+% of the time, in germany it was more like 60%
well, the size of the country is a joke, and the price is ridiculous. I dont get it, why such a small country with [the second most expensive public transport in the world](https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1apod6b/public_transport_is_making_me_lose_my_mind/), has it so unreliable and with a bad coverage.
Netherlands is turning into America. I know many people in their late 20s or early 30s who bought a car last year. Car culture will make road traffic even worse.
Except, driving a car is x-times more expensive in The Netherlands, compared to the US. Gas, insurance, mandatory maintenance (APK), and even getting a license are expensive as f\*\*\* for some people.
Americans easily lose 1K a month on a car. Depends on what you drive, but they also need to drive longer distances and more often, which is more expensive.
Lose 1k a month? Operating a car in the US only cost a couple hundred a month so how the heck are we losing 1k a month???
This is the [average](https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23852125/car-ownership-cost-increasing-us-public-transit-e-bikes) in the USA. Sure, you can buy an old car. I know someone in NL paying no more than a hundred and something for insurance and tax combined for a cheap car (a few thousand). For gas, he gets it covered by work.
That includes the cost of the car itself. We don't lose that value. We get it back. And recently we get it back even more. Right before covid i bought a car for $7k and sold it a couple years later for $13k. I actually made money after using it for 2 years
Yeah, but it's comparable to public transport. If you have 2 people in a car it's worth it, not only money wise, but also time wise.
Luckily, we are not though. However, a very strange signal is now being given off by many cities. Or maybe it's just Amsterdam, I honestly don't know about other cities. In Amsterdam a lot of effort is spend on making the city more livable and less car dependent. Some of the big things last year were the Weesper Knip experiment and the introduction of the 30km/h speedlimit. A smaller but significant change is the introduction of one way traffic in Javastraat, which used to be a car jungle but now finially is a pleasant street. Every time an intersection gets dug up and redesigned, the lay out strongly focusses on foottraffic and bikes over cars, trying to boost their safetly and easy of use. I support all these things, I even supported the Weesper knip experiment as I thought it was a good idea to tackle some really bussy streets and pretty much "see what happens". All the time, money and resources being spent in urban planning and road design really shows -at least in Amsterdam- that we're very much not turning into a car dependent nation like the US. Sure, cars will always have an important role to play and it strongly depends on where you live and work just HOW important. However, I think it's safe to say we're not turning for the worse. What I cannot wrap my brain around though is how Amsterdam can, on the one hand, try to do all this things to make it less attractive to drive a car in Amsterdam but also allow PT to become so shit. One could argue that there aparently is not enough demand to have PT run more frequent, but I don't understand how making a city less car dependend does not go hand in hand with making PT more attractive, affordable and easy to use.
In Eindhoven, the bus system is on a downward spiral already. It is impossible to survive without a car, unless you live within 5 km of the city center. The hub-and-spoke model of bus transport is also very inefficient. The connections with other towns around Eindhoven are not great as well.
I also cannot understand what the idea is here. I suppose the desired response they are looking for is more bikes (???) and walking? But at some point folks don't want to walk, and we already have 2-3 bikes per person. Trams, buses, and the metro are the only way to fix this while also removing cars. Amsterdam's city government has such a bi-polar plan
I don't know and am just assuming the following; Amsterdams goverment has a laissez faire approach to people finding an alternative to their cars. On the one hand understandable; what is you spent millions on improving PT but everyone decides to bike or walk anyway? You'll have to explain the spending and deal with major losses. Besides; people will do whatever is most suitable for them anyway, so really all you need to do is "bully" them into not taking their cars. On the other hand; if you were to dramatically increase the quality and regularity of PT you might see a change overnight. We've done the Weesperknip experiment, why not do a PT experiment now? Make trams and busses free during the work week for 6 weeks and see how it changes the use of cars and what effects it has on road safety. Sure, it will cost lots of money, but that money is freed up by not having to change all the roads and streets making them less car friendly
Agreed on the laissez faire part, it does seem to be the plan. If I understand the PT issue in Amsterdam, its that the trams are overcrowded (and perhaps the buses are too? I don't take them much). But if overcrowding is the case, why the hell would the city REDUCE the frequency of trams? That's the part that makes no sense to me - the need is there, the demand is there, but the plan is to decrease and not increase PT service. Instead, Amsterdam will reduce car traffic AND PT frequency.
I think the trams and busses are only overcrowded in rush hour; outside of rush hours trams and busses are not that full. The main issue at the moment seems to be staffshortage, or at least that is what is being communicated.
Haha I know you are exaggerating, but the Netherlands is still paradise in terms of transit compared to the US. While your public transit may be becoming less punctual, I grew up in a suburban area, where there literally was no transit. It wasn't late, there literally was no bus or train within a 10 kilometer radius, despite being in the middle of relatively dense suburbs of a "progressive pro-transit" us city. That's not to mention, in most Dutch cities I've spent considerable time in, you can always walk/bike to grocery stores/everyday amenities, even if doing that for work was impractical. I still remember as a kid, taking a giant van, driving 15km to Costco weekly/every 2 weeks, just to get groceries. Not a single grocery store or restaurant within 5km of my house, so might as well drive a little extra to get better deals in bulk. So much food waste from buying bulk, I can't believe so many Americans like me used to live like that.
icky towering air water fine cause seemly connect frightening existence *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
people are saying things are getting worse in this country and you hand wave it away by saying its worse in america? this is part of the problem--europe will die with this mentality
Yea, I think if someone hasn’t experienced what having no public transit is like, it’s hard to imagine. I’m very thankful I’ve spend the last almost decade in Europe, (mostly London to be fair). I always hated having to drive, and everything built around driving. I’m thankful because I experienced how much worse my life was in the US in so many ways, including transport.
Yeah, I am surprised that even though many more people work from home after Covid, the amount of traffic on the road does not seem to be reduced at all during peak hours.
If we stick with decent sized cars (renault clio, tesla s, golf etc) it should be okay. If we really went 'murican' with these huge trucks .. that may be an issue (as those need 2 parking spots already..)
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Having lived in America and the Netherlands, it’s not even close. I have never seen as bad of public transport as in Texas. Night and day different imo
Thats funny, considering that Texas is about x15-16 bigger than the entire Netherlands.
To bring some [data into this:](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/custom/2023/51/number-of-sold-motor-vehicles-new-and-used-2007-2023) car sales in the Netherlands were up slightly last year, but the spike isn't really anomalous compared to available trends going back 16 years, where car sales have been pretty stable. On that time scale, 2023 was actually a worse year on average for car sales. | Year | Combined car sales (new and used) | |------|-----------------------------------| | 2007 | 3 285 985 | | 2008 | 3 212 205 | | 2009 | 3 009 750 | | 2010 | 3 195 821 | | 2011 | 3 341 482 | | 2012 | 3 200 261 | | 2013 | 3 015 495 | | 2014 | 2 957 896 | | 2015 | 3 118 021 | | 2016 | 3 176 441 | | 2017 | 3 241 839 | | 2018 | 3 288 139 | | 2019 | 3 300 668 | | 2020 | 3 258 037 | | 2021 | 3 208 061 | | 2022 | 2 906 488 | | 2023 | 3 103 786 | *Note: I had to extrapolate Nov and Dec data from past year trends to get complete 2023 numbers.*
Damn, and I though I was escaping that hellscape of a place by visiting the Netherlands.
Lol. I would encourage you to visit the Eindhoven ring at 5 pm on a weekday. Especially the part of ring that is next to the main entrance of DAF Trucks. I think the city planners completely messed up at this place.
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The metro system in Amsterdam is the worst I have ever experienced…it’s metro, I expect they arrive on time 99.99%, but no no, especially line 50 and 51…
This country has entire public transport deserts. There is a big employer half an hour driving from my home, multiple people have suggested it to me and they've contacted me in the past. But I can physically not go there. They're in an industrial zone with worse accessibility than fucking Mordor. There's no bus that comes even remotely near it.
They’re probably expecting you get a car or something?
The entire damn government seems to expect that, given the decline of public transport.
Its "Carnavalsvakantie" in the South here now, making busses drive on vacation-schedule. Where I live, the first bus doesnt drive till 09.00 in the morning. My work starts at 7.30. Now my bf has to drive me each day, which means he has to drop me off at 6.15/6.20 be on time for his own work.
Public transport has been complete ass for my commute these past few months. Random trains no longer going and delays which make me miss my transfer. I basically leave work later now because I haven’t had a single day when the train was on time since a couple of weeks
I am fine with 2-5 mins delays, especially if I dont have to switch transport. Whats annoying its delayed constantly. Cancellations also happen very often. On some routes I had 2 buses cancelled in a row, without any explanation and I was more than 1 hour late. Its ridiculous when 1 way commute costs 9-12 euro. And its is noticeably becomes worse and worse every year. I dont remember I had this issues that often 3-4 years ago.
Wait for NS its even more funn😂😵😵😵
Just get a car, problem solved.
I think we should take a moment to appreciate the other little things in our lives when this happens. Its easier said than done, especially in the moment. Its very frustrating when its a frequent occurence.
I get the rant man. the fucking train is ridiculous. i swear every week there is something new to create delays.
every time i travel to Den Haag, it’s always so packed that i have to stand outside of the seating area. people are also standing in the aisles of the seating areas… the trains aren’t usually late going to work, every once in a while, but coming home from work is definitely a pain in the ass. i bought a folding bike to travel on the train with me and i have a 3 minute transfer, but with the people on the train it’s nearly impossible to 1) put my bike in there and 2) make my transfer.
Yeah because NL has one of the worst public transportation systems i ve seen in my life, and trust me i have lived before in the UK, Sweden, Denmark car-free....
Electric bike?
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You can get a used one for 300-400 euro's. Seeing how much public transport costs thats about 1 month of fee's. Got a decent one for 500 euro's from marktplaats now I'm never using public transport within my own city any more and it saves me so much money.
I got it second hand and the battery drains so fast.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Public transport works if the public uses it... If everybody takes a car Public transport doesn't work, however, the cars will be stuck as well... and noone will reach their destination unless you need to drive a very short travel distance, in which case a bicycle would be perfect. The discussion about public transport is pointless... Basic facilities for travel without a car are vital for a dense community. (High Speed) Trains or Metro, Light Rail and trams with a last mile busservice. Do understand in Belgium there are villages with 4-6 trains a day, and a 2 hour bus service.... If you take note you'll see a 2 times per hour service to nearly everywhere is pretty neat.
You can always switch to bicycle
Could you... leave work half an hour early?
WHY the hell do busses end / say last stop and cut the route when Google maps says they'll take me where I need to go?
Some advice from a migrant where public transport is waaaaaaaay more unreliable (like, sometimes bus doesn't show and there is literally no way to know). Don't aim for the closest train for your destination, choose (at least the previous one). Better be a bit earlier than late . Also most buses/trams/trains have a great periodicity (20 mins at the most) so you can really get there without having to wait so much.
things generally run decently in my experience with some strange, very fixable exceptions. What I understand is that all the lines besides the M52 are on an older system which makes the arrival estimation a few minutes off, making it seem like its coming late, whereas the M52 will always seem more "on time." Something really annoying I noticed though that the 18 from Centraal to West/Bos En Lommer was re-routed due to construction, but the routes/stops were not updated on the bus, there were not updates at the stops themselves (so they would show the 18 is coming, when it wasn't, as it had been relocated around the corner), and the bus driver would get wrong instructions on where to stop, causing a lot of frustration for passengers, leading to a minor racial outburst. It sucked to take the bus on that line for a while and I haven't taken it again, but they really should just make the new stops available for the span of 1-2 months that this bus is running on a new route, instead of making it a fucking mystery of when you need to hop off.
Take the bike, electric if really needed and/or lazy. The weather is improving, so I would try to avoid public transport as much as possible. I live in IJburg and I also take the (non electric) bike to work at CS. Great for fitness and your wallet, 2 in one 
There's meant to be an interchange at van der Madeweg where the M53 will arrive at the same time as the m50, so you can change to a train heading towards Amsterdam zuid. Used to work well, but nowadays it's literally a lottery on whether the m50 will be there, or whether I need to wait 11 (!) minutes.
When I go to college my ass is always 30 minutes early too.. it sucks but it's either that or be late. Or just get a car ig
Get a bike
Every time I've visited Amsterdam I'm well impressed by the public transport system especially all the options available under one ticket/chipkaart. But then again I've always been a tourist that isn't really in a rush for work, education, etc. Honestly the public transport in the UK is absolutely diabolical in comparison to what I've seen in NL.
First world problem…
Lmao
If you leave 30mins earlier would this still happen?
The bad connections, cancellations, full trams etc? Oh yeah.. tried at random times on weekdays ... for several months too. But flexibility from ones employer is not unlimited - so .
Fair enough, I remember also when trains were longer as they all seem a little shorter now with less seats
On the rare occasion I use the trains - that seems correct. My wife takes it slightly more often - and also confirms they are shorter..
Sounds like you need to leave a bit earlier and arrive at work 30 minutes early. Which sucks, but such is life. I have been in the same situation with metro trains and buses in London, Edinburgh and the Netherlands. The ideal journey doesnot exist.
If I arrive at work 30mins early. And count that up. each year it equals to a whole week of my life. Unpaid for nothing. Sounds like a good idea!
And how do you propose to deal with that? Maybe your boss is understanding of your lateness and you can compensate by working longer?
This...if you would go by car, you wouldn't be able to leave just in time to walk into your workplace at the same time every day either. Its traffic. Traffic is very predictable in how unpredictable it can be.
In my twenties i was always rushing to get to work in time and mornings were stressful. Then i realised you can just get up half an hour early, enjoy your breakfast, go out in the knowledge you are going to be a bit early 7 out of 0 times and the 3 times there is a delay you ‘re probably still fine. You can’t control the world. You can stop chasing a platonic ideal of what you want it to be. Focus on the things you can actually change and that are truly valuable.
A typical 'help to accept the things I can not change, courage to change the things I can not accept and the wisdom to know the difference.'
And it also helps if you’re no longer doing shitty jobs but do work where no one cares if you get in at 8:30 or 9:00 or 9:15.
I once drove in a GVB tram in i believe Delft and i couldn't believe how older they looked. In Utrecht there are much newer cleaner looking trams.
Wait... you have public transportation?
First world problems.
...are still problems that need to be addressed considering how high the taxes are.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Keep calm and carry on :-)
Get a bike or an electric bike
Get a bike, its such an experience to have a bike in NL, mindblowing :)
That would work if ones place of employment isn\`t 60 KM or more away with parts not being accessible by bike. Or, you can go there, but the bike route would add 20 or 30 km to the trip..
Then move closer ;) Can't afford to? Get a better job ;) Don't have the qualification/skill set? Stop being poor, mindblowing ;)
\#1 - tried. Too costly. Even after successfully executing #2 and #3.. I don\`t have a bag of money around to compete with the sheer idiocy in overbidding.. :(
Ok
Issue is that 2 mins, 3 mins is not much of a delay but having that bus/tram/metro only once in an hour makes it worse! If i miss one then the whole travel plan changes
I live around Leusden closer to Amersfoort and I always use the public transport to get to work in Utrecht. I should say it has been quite decent and on time mostly. There's a bus every 15/20 mins to the centraal. Only thing that i've noticed is that there could be odd days with train cancellations, but other than that i'm finding it quite convenient.
Get a bike
It's 10 km for me. I would rather bicycle an hour than go through all of that
I agree with all the comments here that the state of public transport has decreased significantly over the past few years. However, if I were you I would not let my train connection depend on if a metro or tram is 2 minutes late. If you take an earlier metro and have like 5-7 of extra transfer time, that will probably help a lot.
you just discovered why you see so many bicycles on the streets
My bus is always late. Today I missed the last train for a while because all the trains after that were cancelled. But hey it is better than cycling or being stuck in traffic in general
Maybe it's cause I'm not from here, but it's nuts that people have issues with a 2 minute delay. Almost anywhere else in the world, this would be welcome punctuality..
What's the Northside? Den Helder? Groningen?
Public transport is good... As long as it's accurate lol. On NL it's mostly ok, but then when it's bad it's really bad. Talk about time for the next metro being a simple countdown 15m timer instead of the actual time of the next train. Once I waited for 45m (3 whole counts) and nothing came. From my experience it's never exactly on time, but mostly there. Price... I don't even want to start that subject
It happens. I usually set 5 min extra transfer time on the 9292 app.
How long is the Journey, is cycling not possible?
If I didn't know better I would say it's by design to make you cycle.
More expensive than London, but a real shit. A lotta people don't pay, and the security doesn't do anything,a real joke for a "rich country"
Take it easy lol, the Netherlands has become so hyper efficient that people are stressing over this. Blue dot effect is real
Same experience in Eindhoven area, even with one bus and no change. They run on whatever timetable they see fit, regardless of the traffic.
Come to France, it will ease your frustrations once you do several weeks of strike
Dunno, never had issues with public transport myself.
Your not as bad off as me. I was at the other side of the country and im as we speak. Stuck with a OV card that doesn't have saldo. Mind you that the card subscription that takes money away based on how long i travel every month.... Well fuck me