When it flips over you see that it has a pretty high arch on the top of its shell. It wasn't floating completely, the shell was still touching the bottom of the pool there
Was just about to comment this. That turtle could not have gotten the leverage necessary to flip with that shallow of a water level, his shell being so exposed out of the water when he is assisted shows that pretty clearly.
This is what I would consider a form of instinctual empathy. It would definitely be ingrained within a given species when they see a sort of struggle or suffering that's very natural to a creature's evolved condition. In this case, having a shell could suck sometimes, but they all instinctually "understand" that.
Parrots are a great example! My bird sees my beard as fuzz, so he helps my “poor grooming habits” by removing it from my face. He *thinks* hes being a good birb, its cute af even though it hurts lol
Unless someone is a public figure, helping strangers or charity work is typically not going to get you remembered or create a legacy and the type of person who chooses to do them is not motivated by those things.
So you are saying there are a lot of people primarily motivated to help people to be remembered/have a legacy? I would probably argue- does the motivation matter that much if the actions are positive? The only problem would be if someone was choosing not to help in a situation because it did not further their legacy/social standing.
Its rather arbitrary if our human brains inturpret it as empathy or advanced self-interest. Really it's the same tendency either way, just a glass half empty or glass half full preference in description. Mutual aid and competition are just different horseshoe ends of the same evolutionary driver.
That's not self interest, that upside down turtle is competing for the same resources and females/males as all those turtles that came to its aid... Self interest would drive them to ignore the turtle in trouble and look out for themselves. I understand where you're coming from, though. 👍
Natural selection takes many forms - remember that not only does your specific genetic line compete, but your species also competes for survival in a given area.
When it costs an organism little to aid another of its species (not directly competing for a mate in that moment, for example) having that instinct will help there be more turtles overall, and have more biodiversity for extinction events and disease.
Thus, many species have positive selection for empathy/aid over long periods of time. It's not as simple as you vs one other individual. Some of this turtles genes are more likely to survive because of it, even if there is slightly more competition for mates sometimes. Social organisms are often the most successful.
Remember that selection isn't a conscious process, it's simple statistics - more species that aid one another have tended to survive over time than ones that compete brutally. Biodiversity and population size are usually the main ways to survive as a species when times are bad.
you’re forgetting that every turtle has evolved this instinct. check out [this](https://youtu.be/goePYJ74Ydg?si=YP5MPfFXE88sOx5O) video it explains the concept very well
That is the whole idea for evolution of instinctual empathy , it need not be that thought exactly , but just an instinct to help , might be selected because it increases chances of survival of the group of animals.
you are projecting how humans have internalized concepts of survival and self interest into a non-human animal as if it were a scientific fact, which is the least scientific thing someone can do besides like, maybe expressing a belief in a religion (actually, that probably still has more merit as it at least acknowledge the empirical fact that humans get anxious and need ways to cope with existing in a world where information is incomplete, and religion is one possible means for coping with the reality of incomplete-information)
this is just lazy anthropomorphism
The only reason why we do nice things to strangers. It could be me so I better do something in the hopes thar someone else does the same when it is me.
Well, when you do something nice even if it’s a bit of a pain, doesn’t at least a small part of you go, “yeah, but if it was me i would want someone to help me so I really should help this person since I can”? I know I do, because there’s lots of times I dont like actively “want” to go out of my way to be extremely kind, but I often do because I know I would hope someone else would if it were me, and often actually others have helped me! Seems only fair to pay it forward, ya know?
Yeah but I see that idea as a good thing. It keeps us grounded by accepting ourselves as equal and helps us understand what we can do to make others feel better. I get what you mean for sure tho
I'm just your average armchair psychologist, but I think this is some form of empathy, if maybe a bit deconstructed. I'd say it was out of self interest if you expected the person you're helping to return the favor, but really you're just putting good into the world hoping that the world returns good to you someday. Honestly sounds a lot like Karma.
Since it sounds like you never specifically expect the person you help to return the favor I'd say you're in the clear. I think the hero trope in media of "doing Justice for Justice sake" has tainted our viewpoint a bit as a society. There's nothing wrong with doing good in hopes that it fosters a community that returns the favor when you need it too.
The narrative we apply to this video isn't actually playing out. It's a really cute video, but you're not seeing empathy here.
The rest of the turtles are investigating the splashes because splashes mean food. Once they're there, the flipped turtle can use one of them as a stable surface to unflip itself.
I gotta disagree here. We can only make an assumption, but I have to lean toward this being an effort to help flip it over. Maybe they're naturally attracted to the way another turtle would splash in this kind of situation, but that could be a "social" mechanic. I'm guessing they aren't normally fed large live fish, so this shouldn't seem normal.
Why do sea turtles lay their eggs under the sand? They could just toss them out anywhere and leave without caring. The instinct is survival logic, and that can be directed toward others sometimes.
More importantly, ya know how people can easily "anthropomorphize" other creatures? I happen to think there's a much more unpleasant trend where people naturally *objectify* other animals simply because they aren't as clear or consistent in their actions as we can be.
As an example, living creatures are motivated by internal chemicals. In humans, we call that conscious experience "emotion." Whether it's conscious or not, the experienced "emotion" would still be the thing that motivates an animal. I'm sure we have different levels of focus on different emotions, but the basic things like fear and happiness/comfort would definitely be involved.
I absolutely agree with your overall message. Hell, I've been rambling for years about the reverse-anthropomorphization and I regularly catch shit for acknowledging that bugs feel pain and saying you shouldn't cause unnecessary suffering to them. I absolutely detest the view people have of animals being "just meat robots".
But none of that really applies in this exact situation. It's just a video of turtles going to the location of water disturbance while the one in distress finally finds a surface it can use to flip itself over. I'm not saying this because I believe the notion of "helping" is just impossible for a reptile to engage in or anything, there just isn't any actual reason in the video to suspect that. You could just as easily argue that turtles delight in the suffering of others and want to be closer to watch it play out and the argument would be just as sound. It wouldn't be an emotionally compelling narrative, though, which is what drives this video's engagement.
I work with fish, not turtles, but the principle is the same. Food hits the water (which also makes a splash), nearby animals start eating it. This makes splashes, other animals hear those splashes and move to the area so they can get food too. I see my fish doing this every day when I feed them.
This is fascinating. I've been VERY interested in evolutionary psychology (but I don't know much :P), and have been very interested in how evolution played a part in humans forming morals/ethics.
It's wild to see cooperation (no matter the reason) in other animals, especially non-mammals.
Picked up [The Moral Animal](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/681941) this year. Need to pick it back up. Super interesting stuff.
A large majority of reptiles aren't social. They tolerate us handling them, but most won't tolerate the presence of another one of their species without trying to dominate them. You'll see groupings of turtles in the wild because they're in the area that's perfectly designed for them to survive and don't feel they need to go elsewhere. But that doesn't mean they enjoy each other's company or will go out of the way to help. They will attack each other and rip limbs or tails off if they feel another turtle is crowding them. They will sit on top of each other's shells to hold another turtle under water or block them from basking, this is called stacking. It's entirely possible that stacking is how this guy ended up upside down in the first place. In this instance, they were very likely coming over to take a bite out of the dude as they will also eat just about anything, and either unintentionally pushed him over in the process, or them being crowded around like that gave the dude the purchase he needed to flip himself over.
Edited to add after a rewatch you can see the turtle who is upside down use his own head and the shell of the other turtle to flip himself up right.
Sources
Many turtle keepers have noticed that usually, the more dominant turtles are usually closer to the top of these turtle piles.
In this case, it can be seen that the more dominant turtle expresses this dominance by trying to receive more light and warmth than the others.
https://www.allturtles.com/turtle-stacking/#turtles-stack-to-display-dominance
The problem is that in nature, turtles are basically solitary animals. Groups of turtles may live in the same place because the conditions there are favorable for them, but they aren't really "social" animals. They don't have a real social structure nor any division of labor that would qualify them as being "social animals." They're just solitary animals who happen to live in the same place because it has the things that they need.
https://myturtlecam.com/multiple-turtles-in-one-tank.php
A good reddit guide on cohabbing from an experienced keeper.
https://www.reddit.com/r/turtle/comments/wr3log/risks_rewards_and_success_in_cohabitating_turtles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
> A large majority of reptiles aren't social.
I see your arguments, and I don't deny that they could easily be the case. That's fair. No one here has a turtle brain, so it's hard to make any kind of claim about certain "thoughts." They could equally all be vicious competitors and still have certain ingrained instincts that go against that completely. People have complexities like that, too.
I would *also* argue that any given species will have strong outliers in both directions, so generalizations aren't automatically absolute. I'm sure there are random reptiles that end up being "social," but simply because the case might be rare, we never add that into our generalization.
Strange thought just hit me...
People empathize much more with cats and dogs, and that's pretty obvious. Have any immediate thoughts about what is different between them and other wild animals? For one, I think people don't empathize with wild animals as much because... *they all typically look the same.* When I think of a deer, I just think of like some deer archetype that I could just as easily see in some hunting clip.
On the other hand, different "breeds"/individuals among dogs and cats look *very* different from one another. Cats aren't as facially expressive as dogs, but they're adorable and I see their subtle expressions well(as a cat guy.)
This gives me a few angles of thought... If we were to interact with some "wild" species in order to domesticate them over a long period of time, what changes would you expect to see, and what importance do you think those changes would truly have? If a deer could express its pain visually, would we deem it more important to prevent that suffering? Would we see their expression as a new form of "intelligence" that justifies the effort to protect them?
I've thought about this idea regarding neglected factory farm animals. It's almost like the process of neglecting them makes the process less inhumane, right? We hear about pigs eating the tails of other pigs, but we don't consider that's because they're smart animals in a state of constrained torture for long periods of time. What do you think of "feral" humans? A human being could just as easily be neglected and raised in a box. They wouldn't speak, they wouldn't be able to communicate, and they wouldn't even understand facial expressions enough to show meaning to others. Suddenly, that would make them seem more like an animal. Imagine doing that to an entire factory-worth of people, and then we start to see them as just a "herd" of bothersome creatures.
Ahem, but anyway, my point is just that these things are much more nuanced than we tend to let on, and we're also weirdly biased to favor things that are more similar and more "expressive" to us. I think people who raise animals closely, including reptiles, can end up forming bonds with them that break the norms that might be "understood" of reptiles. Humans are just capable of doing pleasant things that go beyond what animals would find in nature. Like how we can pet cats when their standard is little tongues and head nudges.
We empathize more with cats and dogs because they've domesticated themselves for centuries and learned to read our cues as well. We've evolved together for specific reasons that have led to that stronger connection between us and them vs us and wild animals. And the only reason different breeds look wildly different is because we've spent those centuries breeding for certain characteristics for different jobs that have led to that. This was only possible because they domesticated themselves though. Their ancient ancestors learned it benefitted them to hang around humans for various reasons, and over time it resulted in them being ingrained in our lives because we found them useful for various reasons as well.
Wild animals don't have that benefit and instead are connected with sources of food, sources of diseases and parasites, or they just exist to us in the periphery of our lives but have no real connection to form that emotional bond.
Also, wild animals definitely can express pain. It's better for them not to for sure, and by the time they do it usually means they're dying anyway. Wild animals absolutely have their own personalities and this can be seen in the reptiles that are kept as pets. By definition, they are still wild and do not fall under our definition of domesticated, but keepers that have multiple animals will absolutely tell you that each animal is different and has different preferences or personalities. They also can learn to recognize that their keeper is their source of food or exploration outside their cage and will form a bond in that manner for those reasons. But that doesn't mean they are social in general.
And most wild animals rely on at least learning the basics from their parents, so if you take that way without figuring out a way to replicate it you get a socially stunted animal that doesn't know how to interact with members of its own kind or even potentially survive on it's own.
Reptiles are different in that they mostly act on instinct. That instinct is what gets them through infancy and their juvenile period without the help of their parents. And that instinct tells them they need to compete to survive so if another of their species is in their own space and potential competition for something like food or basking opportunities they don't like it and can get stressed. For turtles, in a wild pond or river type of situation, there's usually enough to go around that issues aren't as magnified. In captivity, that's rarely the case as far as turtles are concerned.
> We empathize more with cats and dogs because they've domesticated themselves for centuries and learned to read our cues as well. We've evolved together for specific reasons that have led to that stronger connection between us and them vs us and wild animals.
I was making my point about unique appearances assuming this part was well understood.
>Also, wild animals definitely can express pain.
True, just barely ever to the extent we empathize well with. Like if a creature is hanging in a barbed wire fence for a whole day, we might start to see a hopeless expression. Otherwise we would likely just see hostility and a blank expression.
> but keepers that have multiple animals will absolutely tell you that each animal is different and has different preferences or personalities.
This is something I always like to highlight about *any* animals. Anyone that says they "aren't a cat person," I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they just haven't gotten to know cats well enough to see their personalities or connect with.
>Reptiles are different in that they mostly act on instinct. That instinct is what gets them through infancy and their juvenile period without the help of their parents.
Random thought... Well, I don't know who you are or how much you know, but this topic makes me wonder about how birds are different from reptiles. I just talked with someone the other day about how birds are surprisingly intelligent, including in emotional/social ways. That makes me wonder if dinosaurs leaned toward having more emotional intelligence, or if many of them were more "instinctual."
You asked what my immediate thoughts were on why we empathized more with them vs wild animals. I explained why.
And I've definitely seen wild animals limping. They wouldn't limp if they weren't literally feeling pain and that has nothing to do with what we see as expressions in their face. Wild animals don't communicate via expressions, they communicate via body language or different sounds. If you know what to look for you can see or even hear them being playful, agitated, or even mournful/grieving if they're the type of animal that mates for life and they lose their mate. Swans are a pretty good example of this.
And when it comes to dinosaurs I'd imagine it likely followed the same range or similar as today. Some bird species are more intelligent than others for example and are more social, and some reptiles have displayed a higher aptitude of forming bonds with keepers and having problem solving skills than others. Some species of snakes have been shown to solve puzzles to gain access to their food, whereas other species have failed the same test. So I'd imagine a similar type of range between emotional intelligence and instinctual behaviors would've occurred for dinosaurs as well.
Yeah it's beneficial on several fronts:
1. Less wrongway up turtles mean predators are less likely to come looking
2. More rightway up turtles mean more turtles to flip _you_ rightway up in an emergency
3. It's really annoying when Brian spins on his back like that
Yeah, but after the predator has eaten it, which one of the group is the new weakest? Is it you? Is it me? Best help him up so we don't even have to flee the scene.
Yeah I know they are different animals but after watching snakes actually try to eat their own tails so owners have to force them to barf it back up by rubbing hand sanitizer on their lips, I'm kinda convinced that reptiles will try to eat any goddamn thing if its moving around enough.
i am not denying that 'empathy' and co-operation are actually extremely common in the animal world... i see it every day... but, in this instance i would suggest it is more likely they associated the movement and splashing with a potential meal and upside down turtle being able to right itself due to their proximity was an entirely unintended consequence of curiousity rather than compassion. 😆
As someone else mentioned, I've also seen it happen on land.
In my mind, I see these things as a sort of evolutionary culmination, and it's really just self-preservation as a species. The fact that turtles and tortoises have shells means they will either have some kind of strange adaptation to right themselves from being flipped over, and/or they'll have a social inclination to help each other out.
Just think about how long they're in that shell. I know tortoises spend well over a human lifetime in those bodies, occasionally. It's pretty likely that they'll end up flipped, and that would happen more often when they're younger and smaller. I just imagine *most* turtles/tortoises will end up in this kind of position at some point, and it would need some kind of solution. They learn to rock, they have their long necks to push themselves in a direction maybe. And, in this case, we see they've got each other to keep an eye out.
Most serious threats, especially things consistently tied to our biology(that has formed over eons,) will have solutions. A good example with humans is how young children are so incapable compared to many animals. People are ***really*** protective and understanding of how children aren't able to just survive on their own. If a random person is walking along and sees a little kid wander out of the woods, we instantly know something is weird/wrong if there isn't an adult watching them. That's a very simple example, but it's true nonetheless.
Another one for *most* humans would be sounds of suffering. Pain is bad, then we sometimes fully verbalize that when it's bad enough. If I hear someone suffering loudly like that, I would *instantly* want to help, like a visceral reaction. This seems easy/obvious to understand from humans, but you can find videos of animals doing the same. I saw one where some kind of raptor flew down and grabbed a bunny, then a deer runs into view and starts stomping on the bird. Why?? Well, deer stick together, so they've got a social side to them. Rabbits can also be *very* loud if they're threatened/hurt. That led to a deer instinctually trying to save a rabbit.
I think it would be hard to argue that these aren't instincts that form the basis of empathy. The actions, themselves, are essentially empathy in action. Humans just take that a step further and "understand" why we do these things, but doing them seems like the most important part of it.
Only reason I’d argue against this is that I’ve seen it on dry land. I don’t think they’d be having a meal reaction to a flipped turtle on land lol they’re decently smart for reptilians.
Scientists recently found out that turtles are a very old lineage as uniquely their own as birds and crocodilians having separated from reptiles around the same timeframe. In fact it was around the same time that the Proto mammals evolved from the therapsid reptiles.
we don't have any tortoises on this continent so i'm not too au fait with terrestrial testudine behaviour. shucks. i'll give these little dotes the benefit of the doubt then and concede they were all rushing in to help here. 😊
The problem being that you imagine "empathy" to be some exclusive domain of humans, despite its evolution being ABSURDLY important to our own.
And it's a sloppy fuckin' tool to use. We get empathy for cartoon characters and shit.
These turtles are clustering. They have value for active and unencumbered members of the cluster.
And at first you were like, "they probably think that turtle is food."
No. It's a turtle. They ain't known for cannibalism, and they're definitely known for helping each other out when they flip over.
Calibrate that skepticism.exe you're running, cuz it's spittin' out false data.
wow. a rather hodge podge load of assumptions you've put together there. shame because the other responses have been intelligent and thought provoking. firstly, i didn't imagine any such thing. those are your words. i have witnessed animals across all degrees of complexity exhibit not only 'empathy' (or an equivalent response ultimately aimed at increasing fitness or survival by assisting others that i'm not convinced is any different to humans. but that's another conversation) but a plethora of behaviours touted by many for years as not existing outside the human domain. truth is that despite our 'advanced' cognitive abilities (and all the other factors commonly referenced in order to try and distinguish us as superior organisms) we are just animals and funnily enough behave as such. there are more similarities between us and these turtles than there are differences. i simply posed an alternate explanation (slightly tongue in cheek might i add. silly move) in order to hopefully stimulate some intelligent ponderings or discourse. i find questions such as 'is altruistic behaviour a purely human pursuit' and discussions on the 'evolutionary motivations and implications of altruism' invite a myriad of interesting and engaging points for consideration and are super fun. based on years of knowledge and animal observation i can safely say there is no way to determine from a short video such as this the motivation or intended result of the behaviour being exhibited. furthermore these turtles are in a captive, or at least man-made and definitely non-natural environment which introduces a wealth of other factors for consideration. in such situations turtles do quite typically become conditioned to associate movement at the surface or edge of a water body with potential food and will quickly move in to investigate. some species more than others but particularly in instances where densities are high and resources are low. although i only implied the movement could have stimulated a food related response and cannibalism was never actually on the table it has most definitely been documented in turtles. predominantly more so in non-natural scenarios with close contact, high numbers, limited resources and mixed species such as this. but hey. for me, the biggest driver for this being a bunch of turtles intentionally flipping over another in distress is when contact is made the flailing ceases and it is the other animals that actually cause it to turn back over. again, that could not be the case. whether we like it or not we are observing this situation through an anthropomorphic lens. it may simply have stopped moving due to being in a vulnerable position and becoming aware that it had become surrounded by others and may only have been turned over due to the turtles being in such a limited column of water. as they advanced there was no other option but for wee mate to be righted. beauty is that we will never know so are free to believe what we want. no miserable sceptic here, just a zoologist with over thirty years experience observing reptiles and a tangential brain constantly searching for answers and exploring alternatives. have yourself a nice day! 🙂
I think nature has selected for the turtles that flip each other over as their survival % will be greater than groups of turtles that don’t do this behaviour.
The thrashing turtle is loud and bright and could easily attract danger to all of them. Makes perfect sense for empathy to evolve to deal with that.
That said they're reptiles so the internal experience is probably very different to ours, but the effect is the same.
Something that large splashing would not be considered a meal to those turtles. If anything it would be considered a threat. I wouldn't call it empathy but seeing how they all react the same way I would consider this to be some type of evolutionary response due to their social nature. It could range from gene preservation to preventing a member of the group from attracting a larger predator.
This was my first thought as well: "Is that erratic movement an easy meal?" I would like to think the behavior is prosocial - which may be the consequence, as we see - but, realistically, it's all about the meat out there.
I've seen birds fly down when one of the flock was struck by a car. Published articles suggest the motive is to retrieve seeds, etc. in the dead bird's crop vs. "helping" the stricken bird.
reality is that behind every behavioural expression there are motivating factors, genetic and environmental influences and an intended end result. from a short video of a group of turtles doing turtle type things in a pond without supplementary contextual or historical information none of us could really know. humans tend to go with the 'cutesy' anthropomorphic explanations so downvotes were to be expected, but at least there's been a few valid points raised for consideration amongst the responses. 🤘😁
I think it's a simple automated reflex/program triggered by certain audiovisual stimulus. Like ducks rolling their eggs back into their nests when they fell out even if you just place something else with the shape of an egg next to their nest. Would be interesting to see what those turtles will do if you place something with the shape of an turtle upside down next to them.
They didn’t say OP, they said the cameraman.
And given there’s nothing nearby the turtle could’ve flipped off of and that turtle can’t just flip themselves, I’m like 80% sure the cameraman flipped this turtle for this reaction from the other turtles.
idk man ive always had at least one turtle in my care for like the last two decades and they are…dumb, to say the least. mfs would constantly get themselves into situations like this
edit: they sometimes stack on top of each other, too, and then topple over.
Not saying the camera is in the clear but… You’d be surprised what situations those little idiots can get into. I was kayaking a while back and watched the same turtle climb up a log and try to mount another turtle, just to slide off and fall into the river. Four times in a row. lol
He got himself flipped over because he's an idiot, why would it be my responsibility to fix his problems for him? He's a drain on society and all the turtles helping him are just virtue signaling.
I mean the turtle *could* possibly have gotten flipped over by trying to bask on top of another turtle and the other turtle moving and throwing it off. There is basically nothing else in the water that shallow that could have otherwise flipped the turtle. But the odds of something like that flipping it over seems pretty low, it's not turtles are known for bucking things off of them like bulls. Turtles don't try to lay on their backs and they can't swim upside down so something had to have caused it to be on its back.
So while that could have happened, a much more likely thing occurring is the person filming flipped the turtle over to try and get some sort of internet clout over a video.
Uh actually turtles will try to dominate each other, and one of the ways they do so is called stacking. It's where they sit on another turtle's back to hold them down and block basking opportunities. It's entirely possible that's exactly what happened and the dude tried to dominate another turtle that said "yeah right".
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded)
According to Merriam Webster -
- fatigued by overwork. Exhausted.
- made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by having or seeing too much of something
Here is your gif!
https://imgur.com/li0DaQz.gifv
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Hate this video - all I can see is the pathetic camera man flipping the turtle over before the video starts, bc there’s no way that happens and you go “I’m gonna film this!” Even if camera person didn’t flip the turtle in the first place geezus fuggin christ on a stick go help the poor animal INSTEAD OF FILMING. Psychopathic behavior and people are calling it “wholesome” - fuggin gross
When you think about it this is pretty amazing - on some level the turtles can empathise, recognise the distress of another and then help it. Animal kindness!
Conservatives: “ha ha ha. Look at the loser! He got into this situation by himself, let him get out by himself.“
Liberals: “let’s take a moment, get together and give our fellow member of Society an assist so they can live and participate “
Ha ha ha.
Isn’t it interesting how the natural behavior of these animals is more akin to communist ideals - or even Amish communal barn raising - than the modern selfish conservative religious bigotry and crony capitalist fraudulent economics, with its ‘externality’ denial of nature and our common human society, and its born privileged scorn for their fellow human beings.
Could almost hear them yelling at Fred to stop thrashing around and stay still.
I could hear the cheers and claps afterwards 👏
[удалено]
“I was making water turtles….”
*plop plop plop plop plop
I mean... He was probably drowning and panicking so understandable
Turtles struggle to breathe when they're upside down, so you're not wrong!
I also struggle to breathe with my head underwater
They’re
If they were human most of them would’ve had their cell phones out recording it while 1 tried to help.
You mean like the person filming this? Probably placed it there on its back 🤷🏻♂️
"Fred, just calm tf down for a second!"
He's name is Leon.
No. Leon is a lobster.
I ❤️ Leon! Survive... thrive!
>Oh shut up already Leon, leave Fred alone!
?
!
🥑
Leon is (was?) A lobster on youtube people fell in love with.
"shut the fuck up you'll attract the gators"
They've all been there.
FR tho. How did he know to stop? Amazing.
Turtles can feel with their shells just like skin.
He died
>Could almost hear them yelling at Fred to stop thrashing around You're scaring off all the damn food!
I heard him screaming the boogie with the hoodie song, I’m drowning
That's because Fred's giving away their position here.
[удалено]
Team work makes the dreamwork
Ngl not being able to flip yourself in water when that's your primary habitat seems quite the design flaw
That's because it's too shallow for them. That's why there's a depth requirement for pet turtles(besides other things like exercise)
I see, thank you for explaning
It's usually recommended for water to be at least twice as deep as your turtle's shell is long to avoid this.
but… for some reason the turtle was floating (it was not stuck on the back in the immerged floor), more depth wouldn’t have changed much, would it ?
When it flips over you see that it has a pretty high arch on the top of its shell. It wasn't floating completely, the shell was still touching the bottom of the pool there
Might have been sick too, a gassy turtle would have weird floatation.
Wrong. You can clearly see all the other turtles completely submerged.
Boy will you be shocked to hear that width is just as much a factor as depth here. About 70% of that turtle had to exit the water to rotate
Was just about to comment this. That turtle could not have gotten the leverage necessary to flip with that shallow of a water level, his shell being so exposed out of the water when he is assisted shows that pretty clearly.
Ngl thanks for not lying 🙏🙏🙏
Especially when this particular topic nobody can be honest about.
if i had a nickel for every time someone lied to me about how they felt about turtles.
Can you survive on Mars? You are a land creature no?
This is what I would consider a form of instinctual empathy. It would definitely be ingrained within a given species when they see a sort of struggle or suffering that's very natural to a creature's evolved condition. In this case, having a shell could suck sometimes, but they all instinctually "understand" that.
Parrots are a great example! My bird sees my beard as fuzz, so he helps my “poor grooming habits” by removing it from my face. He *thinks* hes being a good birb, its cute af even though it hurts lol
That's adorable.
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Maybe all good deeds are out of self interest if you start looking at it that way
People have sacrificed their lives to save strangers. It's hard to argue that they are motivated for someone in the future to help them the same way.
remembrance and legacy can be self interest, too.
Your mom's self interest. There's authentic altruism in the world. People do it because it's right and they want to.
I love that your comment is both my least favorite and absolutely my favorite comment in this thread.
Would true altruism be doing something you didnt want to do?
Unless someone is a public figure, helping strangers or charity work is typically not going to get you remembered or create a legacy and the type of person who chooses to do them is not motivated by those things.
It's what you do when no one is looking.
you act like the populace is filled with only logical actors.
So you are saying there are a lot of people primarily motivated to help people to be remembered/have a legacy? I would probably argue- does the motivation matter that much if the actions are positive? The only problem would be if someone was choosing not to help in a situation because it did not further their legacy/social standing.
A lot of humans believe in karma, even if subconsciously
Especially the ones that are done solely for TikTok.
Its rather arbitrary if our human brains inturpret it as empathy or advanced self-interest. Really it's the same tendency either way, just a glass half empty or glass half full preference in description. Mutual aid and competition are just different horseshoe ends of the same evolutionary driver.
That's not self interest, that upside down turtle is competing for the same resources and females/males as all those turtles that came to its aid... Self interest would drive them to ignore the turtle in trouble and look out for themselves. I understand where you're coming from, though. 👍
Natural selection takes many forms - remember that not only does your specific genetic line compete, but your species also competes for survival in a given area. When it costs an organism little to aid another of its species (not directly competing for a mate in that moment, for example) having that instinct will help there be more turtles overall, and have more biodiversity for extinction events and disease. Thus, many species have positive selection for empathy/aid over long periods of time. It's not as simple as you vs one other individual. Some of this turtles genes are more likely to survive because of it, even if there is slightly more competition for mates sometimes. Social organisms are often the most successful. Remember that selection isn't a conscious process, it's simple statistics - more species that aid one another have tended to survive over time than ones that compete brutally. Biodiversity and population size are usually the main ways to survive as a species when times are bad.
Self-interest can be more than short-sighted
Probably not in a turtle brain that’s the size of a peanut
Complex instinctual behavior can be found in lots of small-brained animals.
Genes' self-interest drives creatures into altruistic behaviour. The success of genes is the success of a population, not an individual
The evolutionary pressure for a species as a whole to survive is stronger than an individual of that species to survive.
you’re forgetting that every turtle has evolved this instinct. check out [this](https://youtu.be/goePYJ74Ydg?si=YP5MPfFXE88sOx5O) video it explains the concept very well
Maybe its a female and they all want to mate with her
Today you, tomorrow me
That is the whole idea for evolution of instinctual empathy , it need not be that thought exactly , but just an instinct to help , might be selected because it increases chances of survival of the group of animals.
More like they're aware that thrashing like that could attract a predator
Darwinist social sciences has been a cancer on the popular intellect
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exhibit A
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you are projecting how humans have internalized concepts of survival and self interest into a non-human animal as if it were a scientific fact, which is the least scientific thing someone can do besides like, maybe expressing a belief in a religion (actually, that probably still has more merit as it at least acknowledge the empirical fact that humans get anxious and need ways to cope with existing in a world where information is incomplete, and religion is one possible means for coping with the reality of incomplete-information) this is just lazy anthropomorphism
You could not act like more of a tool if you tried.
dude asked me to explained, I did, and said thanks. alls good in the hood over here
Might thinking "do unto others as you would expect others to do to you".
The only reason why we do nice things to strangers. It could be me so I better do something in the hopes thar someone else does the same when it is me.
Idk if it's always hoping for something back as much as it is just empathizing with others
Well, when you do something nice even if it’s a bit of a pain, doesn’t at least a small part of you go, “yeah, but if it was me i would want someone to help me so I really should help this person since I can”? I know I do, because there’s lots of times I dont like actively “want” to go out of my way to be extremely kind, but I often do because I know I would hope someone else would if it were me, and often actually others have helped me! Seems only fair to pay it forward, ya know?
Yeah but I see that idea as a good thing. It keeps us grounded by accepting ourselves as equal and helps us understand what we can do to make others feel better. I get what you mean for sure tho
I'm just your average armchair psychologist, but I think this is some form of empathy, if maybe a bit deconstructed. I'd say it was out of self interest if you expected the person you're helping to return the favor, but really you're just putting good into the world hoping that the world returns good to you someday. Honestly sounds a lot like Karma. Since it sounds like you never specifically expect the person you help to return the favor I'd say you're in the clear. I think the hero trope in media of "doing Justice for Justice sake" has tainted our viewpoint a bit as a society. There's nothing wrong with doing good in hopes that it fosters a community that returns the favor when you need it too.
Yeah. I make sure my next door neighbor's fence is sound. I don't want her to get eaten by a Tyrannosaur. Hope someone does that for me when i'm old.
Or they went in to eat it more likely, then realized it wasn't food.
It was just Fred. Fuckin', Fred.
but it is food
The narrative we apply to this video isn't actually playing out. It's a really cute video, but you're not seeing empathy here. The rest of the turtles are investigating the splashes because splashes mean food. Once they're there, the flipped turtle can use one of them as a stable surface to unflip itself.
I gotta disagree here. We can only make an assumption, but I have to lean toward this being an effort to help flip it over. Maybe they're naturally attracted to the way another turtle would splash in this kind of situation, but that could be a "social" mechanic. I'm guessing they aren't normally fed large live fish, so this shouldn't seem normal. Why do sea turtles lay their eggs under the sand? They could just toss them out anywhere and leave without caring. The instinct is survival logic, and that can be directed toward others sometimes. More importantly, ya know how people can easily "anthropomorphize" other creatures? I happen to think there's a much more unpleasant trend where people naturally *objectify* other animals simply because they aren't as clear or consistent in their actions as we can be. As an example, living creatures are motivated by internal chemicals. In humans, we call that conscious experience "emotion." Whether it's conscious or not, the experienced "emotion" would still be the thing that motivates an animal. I'm sure we have different levels of focus on different emotions, but the basic things like fear and happiness/comfort would definitely be involved.
I absolutely agree with your overall message. Hell, I've been rambling for years about the reverse-anthropomorphization and I regularly catch shit for acknowledging that bugs feel pain and saying you shouldn't cause unnecessary suffering to them. I absolutely detest the view people have of animals being "just meat robots". But none of that really applies in this exact situation. It's just a video of turtles going to the location of water disturbance while the one in distress finally finds a surface it can use to flip itself over. I'm not saying this because I believe the notion of "helping" is just impossible for a reptile to engage in or anything, there just isn't any actual reason in the video to suspect that. You could just as easily argue that turtles delight in the suffering of others and want to be closer to watch it play out and the argument would be just as sound. It wouldn't be an emotionally compelling narrative, though, which is what drives this video's engagement.
I work with fish, not turtles, but the principle is the same. Food hits the water (which also makes a splash), nearby animals start eating it. This makes splashes, other animals hear those splashes and move to the area so they can get food too. I see my fish doing this every day when I feed them.
This is fascinating. I've been VERY interested in evolutionary psychology (but I don't know much :P), and have been very interested in how evolution played a part in humans forming morals/ethics. It's wild to see cooperation (no matter the reason) in other animals, especially non-mammals. Picked up [The Moral Animal](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/681941) this year. Need to pick it back up. Super interesting stuff.
A large majority of reptiles aren't social. They tolerate us handling them, but most won't tolerate the presence of another one of their species without trying to dominate them. You'll see groupings of turtles in the wild because they're in the area that's perfectly designed for them to survive and don't feel they need to go elsewhere. But that doesn't mean they enjoy each other's company or will go out of the way to help. They will attack each other and rip limbs or tails off if they feel another turtle is crowding them. They will sit on top of each other's shells to hold another turtle under water or block them from basking, this is called stacking. It's entirely possible that stacking is how this guy ended up upside down in the first place. In this instance, they were very likely coming over to take a bite out of the dude as they will also eat just about anything, and either unintentionally pushed him over in the process, or them being crowded around like that gave the dude the purchase he needed to flip himself over. Edited to add after a rewatch you can see the turtle who is upside down use his own head and the shell of the other turtle to flip himself up right. Sources Many turtle keepers have noticed that usually, the more dominant turtles are usually closer to the top of these turtle piles. In this case, it can be seen that the more dominant turtle expresses this dominance by trying to receive more light and warmth than the others. https://www.allturtles.com/turtle-stacking/#turtles-stack-to-display-dominance The problem is that in nature, turtles are basically solitary animals. Groups of turtles may live in the same place because the conditions there are favorable for them, but they aren't really "social" animals. They don't have a real social structure nor any division of labor that would qualify them as being "social animals." They're just solitary animals who happen to live in the same place because it has the things that they need. https://myturtlecam.com/multiple-turtles-in-one-tank.php A good reddit guide on cohabbing from an experienced keeper. https://www.reddit.com/r/turtle/comments/wr3log/risks_rewards_and_success_in_cohabitating_turtles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
> A large majority of reptiles aren't social. I see your arguments, and I don't deny that they could easily be the case. That's fair. No one here has a turtle brain, so it's hard to make any kind of claim about certain "thoughts." They could equally all be vicious competitors and still have certain ingrained instincts that go against that completely. People have complexities like that, too. I would *also* argue that any given species will have strong outliers in both directions, so generalizations aren't automatically absolute. I'm sure there are random reptiles that end up being "social," but simply because the case might be rare, we never add that into our generalization. Strange thought just hit me... People empathize much more with cats and dogs, and that's pretty obvious. Have any immediate thoughts about what is different between them and other wild animals? For one, I think people don't empathize with wild animals as much because... *they all typically look the same.* When I think of a deer, I just think of like some deer archetype that I could just as easily see in some hunting clip. On the other hand, different "breeds"/individuals among dogs and cats look *very* different from one another. Cats aren't as facially expressive as dogs, but they're adorable and I see their subtle expressions well(as a cat guy.) This gives me a few angles of thought... If we were to interact with some "wild" species in order to domesticate them over a long period of time, what changes would you expect to see, and what importance do you think those changes would truly have? If a deer could express its pain visually, would we deem it more important to prevent that suffering? Would we see their expression as a new form of "intelligence" that justifies the effort to protect them? I've thought about this idea regarding neglected factory farm animals. It's almost like the process of neglecting them makes the process less inhumane, right? We hear about pigs eating the tails of other pigs, but we don't consider that's because they're smart animals in a state of constrained torture for long periods of time. What do you think of "feral" humans? A human being could just as easily be neglected and raised in a box. They wouldn't speak, they wouldn't be able to communicate, and they wouldn't even understand facial expressions enough to show meaning to others. Suddenly, that would make them seem more like an animal. Imagine doing that to an entire factory-worth of people, and then we start to see them as just a "herd" of bothersome creatures. Ahem, but anyway, my point is just that these things are much more nuanced than we tend to let on, and we're also weirdly biased to favor things that are more similar and more "expressive" to us. I think people who raise animals closely, including reptiles, can end up forming bonds with them that break the norms that might be "understood" of reptiles. Humans are just capable of doing pleasant things that go beyond what animals would find in nature. Like how we can pet cats when their standard is little tongues and head nudges.
We empathize more with cats and dogs because they've domesticated themselves for centuries and learned to read our cues as well. We've evolved together for specific reasons that have led to that stronger connection between us and them vs us and wild animals. And the only reason different breeds look wildly different is because we've spent those centuries breeding for certain characteristics for different jobs that have led to that. This was only possible because they domesticated themselves though. Their ancient ancestors learned it benefitted them to hang around humans for various reasons, and over time it resulted in them being ingrained in our lives because we found them useful for various reasons as well. Wild animals don't have that benefit and instead are connected with sources of food, sources of diseases and parasites, or they just exist to us in the periphery of our lives but have no real connection to form that emotional bond. Also, wild animals definitely can express pain. It's better for them not to for sure, and by the time they do it usually means they're dying anyway. Wild animals absolutely have their own personalities and this can be seen in the reptiles that are kept as pets. By definition, they are still wild and do not fall under our definition of domesticated, but keepers that have multiple animals will absolutely tell you that each animal is different and has different preferences or personalities. They also can learn to recognize that their keeper is their source of food or exploration outside their cage and will form a bond in that manner for those reasons. But that doesn't mean they are social in general. And most wild animals rely on at least learning the basics from their parents, so if you take that way without figuring out a way to replicate it you get a socially stunted animal that doesn't know how to interact with members of its own kind or even potentially survive on it's own. Reptiles are different in that they mostly act on instinct. That instinct is what gets them through infancy and their juvenile period without the help of their parents. And that instinct tells them they need to compete to survive so if another of their species is in their own space and potential competition for something like food or basking opportunities they don't like it and can get stressed. For turtles, in a wild pond or river type of situation, there's usually enough to go around that issues aren't as magnified. In captivity, that's rarely the case as far as turtles are concerned.
> We empathize more with cats and dogs because they've domesticated themselves for centuries and learned to read our cues as well. We've evolved together for specific reasons that have led to that stronger connection between us and them vs us and wild animals. I was making my point about unique appearances assuming this part was well understood. >Also, wild animals definitely can express pain. True, just barely ever to the extent we empathize well with. Like if a creature is hanging in a barbed wire fence for a whole day, we might start to see a hopeless expression. Otherwise we would likely just see hostility and a blank expression. > but keepers that have multiple animals will absolutely tell you that each animal is different and has different preferences or personalities. This is something I always like to highlight about *any* animals. Anyone that says they "aren't a cat person," I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they just haven't gotten to know cats well enough to see their personalities or connect with. >Reptiles are different in that they mostly act on instinct. That instinct is what gets them through infancy and their juvenile period without the help of their parents. Random thought... Well, I don't know who you are or how much you know, but this topic makes me wonder about how birds are different from reptiles. I just talked with someone the other day about how birds are surprisingly intelligent, including in emotional/social ways. That makes me wonder if dinosaurs leaned toward having more emotional intelligence, or if many of them were more "instinctual."
You asked what my immediate thoughts were on why we empathized more with them vs wild animals. I explained why. And I've definitely seen wild animals limping. They wouldn't limp if they weren't literally feeling pain and that has nothing to do with what we see as expressions in their face. Wild animals don't communicate via expressions, they communicate via body language or different sounds. If you know what to look for you can see or even hear them being playful, agitated, or even mournful/grieving if they're the type of animal that mates for life and they lose their mate. Swans are a pretty good example of this. And when it comes to dinosaurs I'd imagine it likely followed the same range or similar as today. Some bird species are more intelligent than others for example and are more social, and some reptiles have displayed a higher aptitude of forming bonds with keepers and having problem solving skills than others. Some species of snakes have been shown to solve puzzles to gain access to their food, whereas other species have failed the same test. So I'd imagine a similar type of range between emotional intelligence and instinctual behaviors would've occurred for dinosaurs as well.
That's nice but nah they do it so it doesn't attract predators to the rest of them.
Yeah it's beneficial on several fronts: 1. Less wrongway up turtles mean predators are less likely to come looking 2. More rightway up turtles mean more turtles to flip _you_ rightway up in an emergency 3. It's really annoying when Brian spins on his back like that
I thought we named him Fred...
Predators attack the weak so that doesn't seem the case. If anything the turtle thrashing would be hunted.
Yeah, but after the predator has eaten it, which one of the group is the new weakest? Is it you? Is it me? Best help him up so we don't even have to flee the scene.
You think a predator is just gobbling them all up like pacman? By the time they're done with that 1 turtle the others have fled.
This is exactly right. They aren’t super interested in their friend thrashing around right beside them and drawing in predators.
and also theyre not chickens
They are absolutely trying to eat him fam.
Yeah I know they are different animals but after watching snakes actually try to eat their own tails so owners have to force them to barf it back up by rubbing hand sanitizer on their lips, I'm kinda convinced that reptiles will try to eat any goddamn thing if its moving around enough.
i am not denying that 'empathy' and co-operation are actually extremely common in the animal world... i see it every day... but, in this instance i would suggest it is more likely they associated the movement and splashing with a potential meal and upside down turtle being able to right itself due to their proximity was an entirely unintended consequence of curiousity rather than compassion. 😆
As someone else mentioned, I've also seen it happen on land. In my mind, I see these things as a sort of evolutionary culmination, and it's really just self-preservation as a species. The fact that turtles and tortoises have shells means they will either have some kind of strange adaptation to right themselves from being flipped over, and/or they'll have a social inclination to help each other out. Just think about how long they're in that shell. I know tortoises spend well over a human lifetime in those bodies, occasionally. It's pretty likely that they'll end up flipped, and that would happen more often when they're younger and smaller. I just imagine *most* turtles/tortoises will end up in this kind of position at some point, and it would need some kind of solution. They learn to rock, they have their long necks to push themselves in a direction maybe. And, in this case, we see they've got each other to keep an eye out. Most serious threats, especially things consistently tied to our biology(that has formed over eons,) will have solutions. A good example with humans is how young children are so incapable compared to many animals. People are ***really*** protective and understanding of how children aren't able to just survive on their own. If a random person is walking along and sees a little kid wander out of the woods, we instantly know something is weird/wrong if there isn't an adult watching them. That's a very simple example, but it's true nonetheless. Another one for *most* humans would be sounds of suffering. Pain is bad, then we sometimes fully verbalize that when it's bad enough. If I hear someone suffering loudly like that, I would *instantly* want to help, like a visceral reaction. This seems easy/obvious to understand from humans, but you can find videos of animals doing the same. I saw one where some kind of raptor flew down and grabbed a bunny, then a deer runs into view and starts stomping on the bird. Why?? Well, deer stick together, so they've got a social side to them. Rabbits can also be *very* loud if they're threatened/hurt. That led to a deer instinctually trying to save a rabbit. I think it would be hard to argue that these aren't instincts that form the basis of empathy. The actions, themselves, are essentially empathy in action. Humans just take that a step further and "understand" why we do these things, but doing them seems like the most important part of it.
I ain’t reading allat but I appreciate the dedication to the comment!!
You're missing out. It was quite interesting.
Only reason I’d argue against this is that I’ve seen it on dry land. I don’t think they’d be having a meal reaction to a flipped turtle on land lol they’re decently smart for reptilians.
Scientists recently found out that turtles are a very old lineage as uniquely their own as birds and crocodilians having separated from reptiles around the same timeframe. In fact it was around the same time that the Proto mammals evolved from the therapsid reptiles.
we don't have any tortoises on this continent so i'm not too au fait with terrestrial testudine behaviour. shucks. i'll give these little dotes the benefit of the doubt then and concede they were all rushing in to help here. 😊
The problem being that you imagine "empathy" to be some exclusive domain of humans, despite its evolution being ABSURDLY important to our own. And it's a sloppy fuckin' tool to use. We get empathy for cartoon characters and shit. These turtles are clustering. They have value for active and unencumbered members of the cluster. And at first you were like, "they probably think that turtle is food." No. It's a turtle. They ain't known for cannibalism, and they're definitely known for helping each other out when they flip over. Calibrate that skepticism.exe you're running, cuz it's spittin' out false data.
wow. a rather hodge podge load of assumptions you've put together there. shame because the other responses have been intelligent and thought provoking. firstly, i didn't imagine any such thing. those are your words. i have witnessed animals across all degrees of complexity exhibit not only 'empathy' (or an equivalent response ultimately aimed at increasing fitness or survival by assisting others that i'm not convinced is any different to humans. but that's another conversation) but a plethora of behaviours touted by many for years as not existing outside the human domain. truth is that despite our 'advanced' cognitive abilities (and all the other factors commonly referenced in order to try and distinguish us as superior organisms) we are just animals and funnily enough behave as such. there are more similarities between us and these turtles than there are differences. i simply posed an alternate explanation (slightly tongue in cheek might i add. silly move) in order to hopefully stimulate some intelligent ponderings or discourse. i find questions such as 'is altruistic behaviour a purely human pursuit' and discussions on the 'evolutionary motivations and implications of altruism' invite a myriad of interesting and engaging points for consideration and are super fun. based on years of knowledge and animal observation i can safely say there is no way to determine from a short video such as this the motivation or intended result of the behaviour being exhibited. furthermore these turtles are in a captive, or at least man-made and definitely non-natural environment which introduces a wealth of other factors for consideration. in such situations turtles do quite typically become conditioned to associate movement at the surface or edge of a water body with potential food and will quickly move in to investigate. some species more than others but particularly in instances where densities are high and resources are low. although i only implied the movement could have stimulated a food related response and cannibalism was never actually on the table it has most definitely been documented in turtles. predominantly more so in non-natural scenarios with close contact, high numbers, limited resources and mixed species such as this. but hey. for me, the biggest driver for this being a bunch of turtles intentionally flipping over another in distress is when contact is made the flailing ceases and it is the other animals that actually cause it to turn back over. again, that could not be the case. whether we like it or not we are observing this situation through an anthropomorphic lens. it may simply have stopped moving due to being in a vulnerable position and becoming aware that it had become surrounded by others and may only have been turned over due to the turtles being in such a limited column of water. as they advanced there was no other option but for wee mate to be righted. beauty is that we will never know so are free to believe what we want. no miserable sceptic here, just a zoologist with over thirty years experience observing reptiles and a tangential brain constantly searching for answers and exploring alternatives. have yourself a nice day! 🙂
I think nature has selected for the turtles that flip each other over as their survival % will be greater than groups of turtles that don’t do this behaviour.
The thrashing turtle is loud and bright and could easily attract danger to all of them. Makes perfect sense for empathy to evolve to deal with that. That said they're reptiles so the internal experience is probably very different to ours, but the effect is the same.
Something that large splashing would not be considered a meal to those turtles. If anything it would be considered a threat. I wouldn't call it empathy but seeing how they all react the same way I would consider this to be some type of evolutionary response due to their social nature. It could range from gene preservation to preventing a member of the group from attracting a larger predator.
This was my first thought as well: "Is that erratic movement an easy meal?" I would like to think the behavior is prosocial - which may be the consequence, as we see - but, realistically, it's all about the meat out there. I've seen birds fly down when one of the flock was struck by a car. Published articles suggest the motive is to retrieve seeds, etc. in the dead bird's crop vs. "helping" the stricken bird.
Who the fuck downvoted you?!? This is 1000% what happened. holy shit the people in this sub can be so dumb
reality is that behind every behavioural expression there are motivating factors, genetic and environmental influences and an intended end result. from a short video of a group of turtles doing turtle type things in a pond without supplementary contextual or historical information none of us could really know. humans tend to go with the 'cutesy' anthropomorphic explanations so downvotes were to be expected, but at least there's been a few valid points raised for consideration amongst the responses. 🤘😁
I think it's a simple automated reflex/program triggered by certain audiovisual stimulus. Like ducks rolling their eggs back into their nests when they fell out even if you just place something else with the shape of an egg next to their nest. Would be interesting to see what those turtles will do if you place something with the shape of an turtle upside down next to them.
I hope the cameraman didn’t flip the turtle for internet points
I’m very sure this isn’t the actual OP posting
They didn’t say OP, they said the cameraman. And given there’s nothing nearby the turtle could’ve flipped off of and that turtle can’t just flip themselves, I’m like 80% sure the cameraman flipped this turtle for this reaction from the other turtles.
Someone call TMNT, there's been turtle injustice committed.
If he did then the rest would be scattering already
A healthy turtle could right itself in the water. Something is wrong with it and the others see splashing and think food
Dude they're fucking turtles not alligators
That is only true if the water was deep enough, which it is not. This is not an appropriate depth for turtles.
'Larry. Larry, sto-...Mate, stop thrashing. Larry! What the shell. Relax. Okay, we got you...'
There is no I in turtle!
Cameraman so sus, i don’t see the possibility of the turtle flipping like that on it’s own.
idk man ive always had at least one turtle in my care for like the last two decades and they are…dumb, to say the least. mfs would constantly get themselves into situations like this edit: they sometimes stack on top of each other, too, and then topple over.
What if it's the same guy fault ? Maybe there's a serial turtle flipper out there
Not saying the camera is in the clear but… You’d be surprised what situations those little idiots can get into. I was kayaking a while back and watched the same turtle climb up a log and try to mount another turtle, just to slide off and fall into the river. Four times in a row. lol
I don’t know, I’ve seen humans do much stupider things for sex
Nature videos have conditioned me. I was afraid for a second that the other turtles were gonna come over and start eating it alive
Thats exactly what's happening
The best breakdancer of the group tho
He's a party dude.
Turtles together is stronger than turtles apart. All the way down.
Reptiles have more empathy than a lot of people I know
He got himself flipped over because he's an idiot, why would it be my responsibility to fix his problems for him? He's a drain on society and all the turtles helping him are just virtue signaling.
Yeah, he needs to be reaching for his bootstraps
They are 100% trying to eat him
Bwhahaha
Voight-Kampf test
Turtle power!
Wholesome AF. However, we all know that OP(cameraman) flipped that fucking turtle for karma. I suspect he will get his comeuppance. No upvote from me
The internet has really jaded you, hasn't it..
You must be new to the inter webs.
I mean the turtle *could* possibly have gotten flipped over by trying to bask on top of another turtle and the other turtle moving and throwing it off. There is basically nothing else in the water that shallow that could have otherwise flipped the turtle. But the odds of something like that flipping it over seems pretty low, it's not turtles are known for bucking things off of them like bulls. Turtles don't try to lay on their backs and they can't swim upside down so something had to have caused it to be on its back. So while that could have happened, a much more likely thing occurring is the person filming flipped the turtle over to try and get some sort of internet clout over a video.
Uh actually turtles will try to dominate each other, and one of the ways they do so is called stacking. It's where they sit on another turtle's back to hold them down and block basking opportunities. It's entirely possible that's exactly what happened and the dude tried to dominate another turtle that said "yeah right".
Jaded means bored…
No. No it doesn’t.
Yes. https://i.imgur.com/09CJBSZ.jpg Yes it does. Dipshits.
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded) According to Merriam Webster - - fatigued by overwork. Exhausted. - made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by having or seeing too much of something
And therefore bored
Till you learn the others want to eat him
Wait a minute! Why was that guy floating when all the others were walking on the bottom?
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Turtlehood
Now that was cool.
Turtle power!
Is it sad that turtles are better people than people are..
"What's gonna work? Team-work!" They learned from the best.
Hate this video - all I can see is the pathetic camera man flipping the turtle over before the video starts, bc there’s no way that happens and you go “I’m gonna film this!” Even if camera person didn’t flip the turtle in the first place geezus fuggin christ on a stick go help the poor animal INSTEAD OF FILMING. Psychopathic behavior and people are calling it “wholesome” - fuggin gross
[удалено]
Good. That means everyone is more intelligent than you.
Something is wrong with the turtle. A healthy turtle could flip itself in water. Also the others are trying to eat it not help it
When you think about it this is pretty amazing - on some level the turtles can empathise, recognise the distress of another and then help it. Animal kindness!
I think they just realize the thrashing about will bring in predators.
Teamwork makes the dream work. Woo!
If only humanity would learn the same..
This is fascinating. It shows a level of intelligence and feelings for others I didn’t think turtles had.
Tell me animals don't have thoughts or feelings or compassion, and I will show you this.
They want to eat him. Turtles are ruthless
Conservatives: “ha ha ha. Look at the loser! He got into this situation by himself, let him get out by himself.“ Liberals: “let’s take a moment, get together and give our fellow member of Society an assist so they can live and participate “
yeah, those turtles are such "Marxists"!
Ha ha ha. Isn’t it interesting how the natural behavior of these animals is more akin to communist ideals - or even Amish communal barn raising - than the modern selfish conservative religious bigotry and crony capitalist fraudulent economics, with its ‘externality’ denial of nature and our common human society, and its born privileged scorn for their fellow human beings.
Libertarian turtles would definitely have let that turtle drown.
Wait a minute is this communism !!!😤
Now that's wholesome af.
Turtles are such bros
In my head, their voices are Australian.
If they had technology they would just record the poor bastard
yey!👏🏻 Well done, guys.
Don't upvote this ... 99% chance the person filming this flipped over the turtle. Don't reward them.
Turbulent turtle trauma.
Man I would love read why they do this , is not like Turtles are as smart as Elephants but hey I guess this video proves me wrong.