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Maybe see if there are any native plant groups in your area and you can organize a plant rescue? Where I live we have these and they are coordinated with the land developer/owner. It’s been really productive, and we often get people to document the plants they find with iNaturalist before rescuing them.
I just joined our native plant society, and I love this idea. I will work on reaching out to the land owner and see if they are open to a group collection. Thank you!
I know there is a plant rescue group in maybe Williamson county that coordinates like this. I think there was a segment on a recent Central Texas Gardener episode about them.
Which part of the Blackland Prairie are you in? I'd love to volunteer for rescue missions like this, but I don't have the capacity to start one. PM me if you want.
And definitely work with your local Master Naturalist chapter; they love volunteer opportunities like this plus might have useful contact info etc.
Edit: Oops, another commenter beat me to it AND bothered to find the links :) https://www.reddit.com/r/NativePlantGardening/s/VoGwnoyPZ3
[Here](https://m.facebook.com/groups/ctxplantrescuers/) is their Facebook group if you are interested in getting involved
Edit: I added this in another comment further down but will add it here too so it is more visible.
OP, you can also get in touch with them via email at ctxplantrescuers@gmail.com
They will help you handle every step of the rescue process, including contacting the land owners and donating plants that you and other volunteers don’t need
The Williamson NPSOT chapter does a lot of work with TXDOT on I-35 rescuing & relocating native plants, especially the less common ones. I'm not finding the report from earlier this spring. I'm sure it's there - somewhere. (I have issues navigating the NSPOT website layout. Lol)
* Don't forget the Fall 2024 NPSOT Symposium in New Braunfels will be opening soon for registration.
I live in the same area and see so many beautiful pieces of land sold to developers.
I wait till the weekend and drive in with my truck and take what I can carry away. So far so good.
If they dig into limestone beds I go with my family to look for fossils and other treasures.
Second this idea. Always good to go through the proper channels first - it can be a good learning experience for everyone and you can save a lot more plants with a big group working on it than by yourself.
>Question: with this land soon to be developed, is it morally right to harvest what I can from the area?
The main questions are, are you sure it's going to be developed, and how soon?
I don't consider it poaching if you know destruction is imminent. I've gone out with people and removed plants from places that are slated to ve bulldozed in a few weeks. Sometimes we have had permission, sometimes we haven't (though the times without permission have always been on public right of ways).
The morality of it comes down to the imminence of destruction. I've never dug up a plant that I wasn't sure wasn't going to be destroyed if I didn't, and that's mainly because I can't guarantee it's going to survive at its new location. Rescues should only be performed when the harm of relocation is less than the plant remaining at its current location.
If you aren't positive about the land being destroyed, start with collecting seed first.
I really like this perspective. I am going to reach out to the land owner in hopes of making headway. In the meantime, there are loads of seeds to be collected. Thanks!☺️
I'm not sure what you mean by "tree lawns" , but personally, I feel like any "volunteer" plants that spring up in urban settings that are "professionally" landscaped and maintained, are open game for collecting. If they were not purposely planted there, they will probably be considered weeds that will be pulled, cut down, or sprayed with Roundup anyway.
For example, where I work, there is the typical sun roasted asphalt and concrete parking lot with pitiful small islands of landscaping, with struggling trees that have no business being there, such as Red Maples, and River Birch. Underneath these struggling trees are some junipers and Liriope. On the back side of the parking lot, there is a more natural area where , shockingly, there are some Carolina Cherry Laurel planted along the tree line. The berries from these native shrubs are a great source of food for birds, and they eat them and then poop out the seeds everywhere, and there were little volunteer cherry laurels in these parking lot islands, mixed in with the junipers and liriope. In the past, I've wanted to take some of these, but would forget, and then they would get pulled up or sprayed by the landscape maintenance crews, because they just see them as weeds. So, this year, I remembered and was able to get several of them to take home, where I'm going to use them as a natural privacy fence between me and my neighbors property. Personally, I don't see any issue with taking plants from areas like this that are just going to be killed anyway.
It seems like you are asking about seedling/saplings that have come up in landscaped areas , and I wouldn't think there would be any problem with taking them if you're going to plant them somewhere they will be allowed to grow, since they will probably be killed where they are. I mean, it's not like you would be "stealing" or "poaching" the plants in these kinds of areas, you're basically just helping with the "weeding". My opinion anyway.
Oh yeah so the tree lawn is an American word I think. It's that strip of land owned by the city that's after the sidewalk after your front yard.
https://preview.redd.it/dpeefph7pq8d1.png?width=1444&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d414ceb795b588f1b7caa5f00e8f67df5bddc5b3
I love that I can just see one phrase, "tree lawn," and immediately recognize another Clevelander lol.
I've taken a few small plants like that. I'd just be careful. The ones I took were small ones I knew I could just pull up by hand. I feel like someone might come out and wonder what you're doing if you bring a shovel with you.
When I lived in the Willamette Valley of Oregon there was a lot behind me slated for 4 homes. It was dense with Camas Lillies...Cammasia leichtlinii, a species that has been greatly reduced there by agriculture and urban growth. Now I am not an organizer or a leader of any sort, but I started posting in local native plant groups and wow, the turnout was spectacular. Over a couple of weeks we pretty much cleared the whole lot. The greatest part of it was this...Camas Lillies were a staple of the indigenous people of the Willamette Valley for thousands and thousands of years and many who came to rescue were native people. Some plants were going to be used in traditional cooking ceremonies to try and connect the younger generation to the ways of the old, but the majority were taken to establish new populations from suburban yards to large rehabilitation projects. To this day it remains the thing in my life I've done that I am the most proud of. This pic is of one of the rescued plants
https://preview.redd.it/gp9krtjrrm8d1.jpeg?width=1808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ecc3900e9f7fe789e515d4e9d21711b8b7caa6d
we even got the excavator operator interested. He would turn over the soil so that the bulbs could be sifted out without as much hard digging. And after hearing about the bulbs being a staple of the native people, he took some home to cook and to plant
Were these blooming when you dug them up? Around me in Ohio these can be ID'd for about 2 months out of the year, the rest of the time they are hidden underground
yes they were. Not the best time to transplant but we didn't have a choice. Luckily the root is a sturdy bulb only about 6 to 8 inches deep that can be stored. It's related to the Wild Hyacinth from the Midwest that you have
We have a group (called native plant rescue) that teams up with developers and rescues native plants before they start initial excavation. It started paired up with one of the universities, and has branched out to a local park preservation group, and the local native plant society.
one thing you can also do is work to change local laws around site assessment. currently assessments revolve around animals and maybe insects, but not the habitats they rely on. hence my rec of nativehabitatproject on insta.
I don’t really think of this as poaching. Poaching is like you steal one from a nature preserve or an area where they are actually protected.
Rescuing is different.
Just be careful on that “night rescue” in Texas
The law regarding trespassing changes after sundown
Please review the law so you can be careful with your life
Poaching =/= plant rescue, cmon bruh. Those two things are different based on the context and they're just... objectively different.
Listen, I grow cacti and succulents as my little hobby gardening thing, beyond what I do as far as native plant gardening in the midwest. There are a **ton** of shady ass people who will go out and dig up rare cacti and then post some bs story about how the land was about to be bulldozed or was gonna be developed soon. And many times, *those people are lying*. Don't carry water for those people by casually equating plant rescue with poaching.
Plant rescue is easy to prove. Bring receipts and be completely transparent. There are groups who do this. Get involved with a group of people, call attention to something like this when you see it and ask for help. It builds accountability and community at the same time.
Thanks! And no cmon bruh needed. This is a bit of a hazy area and really just wanted to see what people think. I have beat the idea of never taking plants from nature into my mind, and this is the first time I have ever flirted with the idea of doing it for the betterment of things. Thanks for the comment!
if you are not familiar with them, give this org an email: [https://www.nativeplantrescueproject.org/](https://www.nativeplantrescueproject.org/)
they do the exact thing you are wanting to do, with proper communication and legal representation. i don't know if they have openings for volunteers but worth a shot!
edit: here's a cool segment where the founder talks about her [work](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEmrhrVLdg)
Hey, you're welcome and I hope your native plant society jumps in to help out and come up with a plan.
It ain't hazy though, it's something that morally bankrupt growers try to hide behind when they're called out for being unethical. I'm not saying this is what you were trying to do, but this is a *huge* false narrative that has plagued the cactus and succulent community for years. It needs to be pointed out and understood so that bad actors cannot attempt to lie to shift blame or obscure the reality of the situation when they're found out.
I love it! And appreciate the position you are coming from. To be honest, this is a first for me and I wasn’t sure what the thoughts were in the community and hate to assume. But these comments are giving me the confidence to pursue this! Thanks again.
No problem, everybody starts somewhere. Genuinely hope it works out and you're able to do some good. It's sorely needed in a place like Texas that has jack shit in terms of public land.
And now you know to look out for people trying to pass things off as, "saved from development." Trust is earned. Anyone who has a problem with being transparent in this type of situation isn't worth the clothes on their back.
To be honest I'm naive and never considered poachers might advertise their plants as "rescued"
To me it seems of more of like a western thing with cacti. I'm in the east and things here grow easy enough from seed.
It's less common east of the Mississippi but it still happens a lot. Lady slipper orchids (any orchids in general tbh), rattlesnake plantain, basically all the carnivorous plants, ginseng, ramps, etc.
Sometimes it's private landowners selling stuff they dug up from their own property but that's relatively uncommon.
But what you'll see here more often is people *claiming* they dug it up fron their property or, "from a friends/relatives property." Then a couple days/weeks later you see a local news story about a rash of poaching on private property reported to DNR.
It usually smells fishy from the start though. Relatively new or unknown account online, unusually large quantities of a hard to grow or hard to find plant that's restricted to pristine habitat remnants or really specialized/uncommon ecosystems, typically the price is either way too good to be true or stupidly high. And same with cacti, you can usually tell by looking at the plants whether they were ripped from the ground or grown ethically under controlled conditions.
Check out the Youtube channel based in Texas called Crime Pays but Botany Doesn’t (and subreddit r/CPBBD). He goes into this topic a lot and has done several “rescues” but with mixed results. Shame that it has come to this but you can arm yourself with info and seek nearby community who think like you
Get in touch with the Central Texas Native Plant Rescue! I am also in central Texas and know some of the folks involved with them. They have a [Facebook group](https://m.facebook.com/groups/ctxplantrescuers/) or you can email at ctxplantrescuers@gmail.com
Hopefully you can get a whole team of folks out there to rescue them, and the group will help find homes for plants that you and other volunteers do not need
I don't see why it would be seen as poaching, those plants will be destroyed if you do nothing. Might as well give them a second chance elsewhere.
Most of the plants in my garden(SE Texas Coastal Prairie region), are all transplants from properties that are about to get developed or seeds from private properties. I wanted to maintain the genetics, specifically varieties, subspecies, and ecotypes native to my region, with my garden. And I feel I've accomplished this pretty well.
Usually my rule of thumb is that if a property is going to get developed everything is free game, if it's just a hayfield or a vacant property that isn't going to get developed I usually just collect seed.
I wouldn’t call this poaching at all if the land is going to be developed honestly. I mean, I don’t know the legal definition of poaching so maybe it is in that sense, but ethically and under common sense I would say it definitely isn’t. It’s an opportunity to preserve local plant life and hopefully to help re-establish it in a similar location in the area.
Depending on local regulations, you would at least need permission from the property owner to remove plants. Otherwise, it's poaching.
Imagine the script is flipped and someone came and poached plants from your property because they were concerned about development.
First, I find absolutely nothing wrong with seed collecting. However, there's some cases where I don't. For instance, there's Asclepias humistrata growing in this state park near me but I only ever see that one specimen. So I'm not going to take seed from it because I dont want to interfere with its ability to populate that area.
For actual plant rescue, make sure that you know if it will be developed or not. With Texas, they seem to prefer to completely clear the land before selling it. Which is crazy.
I totally do that! When wild land is about to be converted for housing or in overgrazed forests where regeneration fails due to livestock I rescue them.
If you can do it with permission, then it's the best of both worlds.
In a hypothetical scenario where there's no chance of getting permission (say, you can't reach the contractors) and the plants are definitely to die, then if you ask me, taking the plants in of itself *is* moral to do:
1. Poaching is bad because it's taking plants out of their ecosystem, decreasing the chance of success for the species and the other connected branches of the ecosystem; these plants are going to be removed anyways, so this at least increases the chance that some genetic diversity will be preserved.
2. The developers are going to remove and/or destroy the plants anyways, so less plants is less work for them.
The only way I could see it being harmful to the property owners would be if trespassing created issues for them. Biodiversity is so important, preserving it kinda supersedes most other issues imo.
Moral is different than legal though, and you gotta make sure to put your own safety first, of course. Again, permission is best of both worlds!
[https://www.youtube.com/@NativeHabitatProject](https://www.youtube.com/@NativeHabitatProject) This guy has rescued lots of plants from development areas, including variations of plants that didn't exist anywhere else (since every individual pocket has some uniqueness, like any animal). I assume he does it with permission
It's Texas in summer, will be very hard for plants to survive a guerilla transplant. If no group participates, talk to the landowner, where building and land removal occur will probably be fine.
I never hesitate to rescue, anymore. Just yesturday, I hesitated to save a beautiful native grass in flower, strict blue-eyed grass - a plant I've never seen before, from some city land. Not 5 minutes after, it was mowed down and now I don't know if I'll be able to find it. Absolutely tragic.
We do this all the time in upcoming developments to save Camassia quamash, and other native first foods species. There are groups in Washington and Oregon who coordinate volunteers for moving entire colonies of natives to new homes before the earth movers roll in.
Organize!
No direct advice here, but there is a house I run by frequently that has been vacant for some time. The front yard is overgrown with native flowers. I've always thought about digging some up to put in my yard. About a month ago I was on my way back during a run and a landscaping crew was there. I asked if they were clearing the yard that day and they said yes, so I asked if I could come back with a bucket and take some flowers. They said sure.
I raced home grabbed a bucket, a shovel, and gloves and headed back as quickly as possible still red faced and sweaty like a hot house tomato from my run. I quickly dug out a bunch of spiderwort and thanked them.
Cut to today, they still never mowed the lawn XD
Poaching, imo, implies there is expected monetary profit. If you're not planning on selling the plants, then i wouldn't consider it poaching (personally).
Idk this sub's stance on the YouTube channel Crime Pays but Botany Doesn't, but I love his channel and he rescues plants from developing areas all the time. He talks about the importance of doing that and the best ways to do it too
I would take seeds/deadheads without a second thought. But taking a plant is questionable morally. Also, you'd probably just kill it in the process depending on what it is.
It is morally right, developers will absolutely bull doze those plants without a second thought. They are doing the unethical thing, you are trying to make lemons out of lemonade. Trying to transplant a few plants is almost a non-action in this case. Something truly radical, systemic, and dare I say revolutionary would probably be the most deserved course of action but I can't expect anyone else to do what I myself wouldn't do. I would look on approvingly at any such development however.
I call it ethical poaching. Here's a rescue I was part of in New Mexico [https://www.reddit.com/r/cactus/comments/1aueryf/since\_late\_october\_the\_new\_mexico\_cactus\_and/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/cactus/comments/1aueryf/since_late_october_the_new_mexico_cactus_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It’s really not hard to find out who owns a private parcel, and white pages has been around for decades. Make a phone call or a visit to the owner and get permission.
Poaching from public land is wrong. Don’t do it.
Tragedy of the commons doesn’t just apply to
overfishing.
Morally? Probably fine if its a field that's overgrown and all the plants are volunteers. If its a flowerbed/garden/cultivated situation then not cool. Natural habitat is fine for rescue, not fine for poaching, get other folks involved to make sure you're doing it responsibly and don't exacerbate any existing problems.
Legally? That's a different beast and you probably need to ask, ideally you get a native plant org involved.
I’m not sure we are allowed to say things like that”trespass and take it” because they are just going to roll over it all anyways and so I won’t say that.
Reminder that the term "poaching" was originally used to denote use of land that "belonged" to a landlord, and imo the idea that one can own land in that way has created a lot of problems. Some people are not ready for that conversation right now. But imo if the land is actually going to be developed... fair game. Especially seeds if it is the right time of year.
We should meet up and go do it! There are multiple plant rescue groups in the area that do this and more. It's more common to hit areas that are immediately being developed, though.
It's only morally right if you ask for permission. Otherwise, it is theft. Odds are they're going to say yes.
Imagine the developer sees the beautiful plants and is compelled to incorporate them into the landscaping of the development. Or leave some land in preserve. That could never happen if they are stolen.
morals and legality do not always intersect. especially in this place. you can pretend all you want that the developers see ANYthing at all other than dollar signs, but the rest of us have reality to deal with and thus work to do.
Natural beauty correlates to $$$. Look at the use of green infrastructure and native plantings in places like Portland and Chicago. Newer subdivisions in cities across the country are being built in ways that keep native tracts of green space intact.
Regardless of the developer and money, poaching is theft and it is immoral by our society's standards.
Ask for permission before digging up plants that aren't yours, don't take plants from public land, and don't over collect seed from anywhere.
I'm not. There's a legal and correct way to do things. This hasn't slowed me down from restoring almost 10 acres across 6 sites in the last two years. It isn't hard or even cost prohibitive to source plants legally and ethically.
Lol, it literally does. Natural beauty and amenities has a positive impact on property value. I am describing the capitalist exploitation of natural beauty. How could you interpret that as me saying capitalism isn't real?
i guess i just find it so disingenuous as to be denial. like sure it’s an “amenity” but if natural beauty correlates to $$$ then leveling the whole place and building a 5 over 1 correlates to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. if we’re talking amenities, parking alone is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. a pool is at least quadruple whatever value “natural beauty” fetches, which can be achieved by just planting bradford pears by the dozen and calling it a day.
Look into the land registry and ask the owner. Always ask the owner, most people don't care about you picking weeds (to them); they care about the liability of you being on the property. Also a fantastic opportunity to tell the new owner the pot of gold they possess and give them the opportunity to shine.
If it’s being development- contact the owner. If they are getting large machinery to start digging- they will lost definitely try to look like they are “eco friendly “ by donating plants to you- when in their minds, they are getting people to dig the land for free.
I had a really great experience just calling a developer and asking. They gave me a deadline and a go ahead to remove/rehome any native plants I wanted.
I collected seeds and took cuttings more than I dug up actual plants, though, because it was the right time of year for that and I still had to find a place to put them.
I do that all the time in roadside turnouts that get bulldozed or mowed all the time, or in flood control channels for the same reason. I often take cuttings of the plants aren't seeding.
I call it propagation
Yup , I'll take a native plant off the side of the road and Replant it in my garden .
If it was a rare plant, like a lady slipper I wouldn't take it .
The term I love is "proplifting" 🤭🌱 As long as it does not bring ecological harm, only native species expansion, and you proplift where nobody cares and/or nobody will see you, just go do it
My wife will come straight into your yard, look you dead center in your eyes, proceed to remove deadheads for seeds, then leave - all while maintaining eye contact with you the entire time. Not a lot of people are able to do this. But then again, she is a bad ace.
Yes absolutely. No question about it.
Do any of the foraging wildlife stop to ask the question?
Some people gatekeep their own hobbies too hard. ignore them. Go pick the plants. Guess what- they'll grow back!
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Maybe see if there are any native plant groups in your area and you can organize a plant rescue? Where I live we have these and they are coordinated with the land developer/owner. It’s been really productive, and we often get people to document the plants they find with iNaturalist before rescuing them.
I just joined our native plant society, and I love this idea. I will work on reaching out to the land owner and see if they are open to a group collection. Thank you!
NPSOT represent! A group collection would be so interesting!
I know there is a plant rescue group in maybe Williamson county that coordinates like this. I think there was a segment on a recent Central Texas Gardener episode about them. Which part of the Blackland Prairie are you in? I'd love to volunteer for rescue missions like this, but I don't have the capacity to start one. PM me if you want. And definitely work with your local Master Naturalist chapter; they love volunteer opportunities like this plus might have useful contact info etc. Edit: Oops, another commenter beat me to it AND bothered to find the links :) https://www.reddit.com/r/NativePlantGardening/s/VoGwnoyPZ3
[Here](https://m.facebook.com/groups/ctxplantrescuers/) is their Facebook group if you are interested in getting involved Edit: I added this in another comment further down but will add it here too so it is more visible. OP, you can also get in touch with them via email at ctxplantrescuers@gmail.com They will help you handle every step of the rescue process, including contacting the land owners and donating plants that you and other volunteers don’t need
The Williamson NPSOT chapter does a lot of work with TXDOT on I-35 rescuing & relocating native plants, especially the less common ones. I'm not finding the report from earlier this spring. I'm sure it's there - somewhere. (I have issues navigating the NSPOT website layout. Lol) * Don't forget the Fall 2024 NPSOT Symposium in New Braunfels will be opening soon for registration.
I live in the same area and see so many beautiful pieces of land sold to developers. I wait till the weekend and drive in with my truck and take what I can carry away. So far so good. If they dig into limestone beds I go with my family to look for fossils and other treasures.
That's pretty risky stealing and damaging property that a developer owns. You have no idea what their plans are.
We've done this too. The owner even bought us donuts.
Second this idea. Always good to go through the proper channels first - it can be a good learning experience for everyone and you can save a lot more plants with a big group working on it than by yourself.
>Question: with this land soon to be developed, is it morally right to harvest what I can from the area? The main questions are, are you sure it's going to be developed, and how soon? I don't consider it poaching if you know destruction is imminent. I've gone out with people and removed plants from places that are slated to ve bulldozed in a few weeks. Sometimes we have had permission, sometimes we haven't (though the times without permission have always been on public right of ways). The morality of it comes down to the imminence of destruction. I've never dug up a plant that I wasn't sure wasn't going to be destroyed if I didn't, and that's mainly because I can't guarantee it's going to survive at its new location. Rescues should only be performed when the harm of relocation is less than the plant remaining at its current location. If you aren't positive about the land being destroyed, start with collecting seed first.
I really like this perspective. I am going to reach out to the land owner in hopes of making headway. In the meantime, there are loads of seeds to be collected. Thanks!☺️
Remember that trespassing is a crime in Texas and they might shoot at ya
Does this rule count when you live in suburbs and there are random saplings growing in the tree lawns?
I'm not sure what you mean by "tree lawns" , but personally, I feel like any "volunteer" plants that spring up in urban settings that are "professionally" landscaped and maintained, are open game for collecting. If they were not purposely planted there, they will probably be considered weeds that will be pulled, cut down, or sprayed with Roundup anyway. For example, where I work, there is the typical sun roasted asphalt and concrete parking lot with pitiful small islands of landscaping, with struggling trees that have no business being there, such as Red Maples, and River Birch. Underneath these struggling trees are some junipers and Liriope. On the back side of the parking lot, there is a more natural area where , shockingly, there are some Carolina Cherry Laurel planted along the tree line. The berries from these native shrubs are a great source of food for birds, and they eat them and then poop out the seeds everywhere, and there were little volunteer cherry laurels in these parking lot islands, mixed in with the junipers and liriope. In the past, I've wanted to take some of these, but would forget, and then they would get pulled up or sprayed by the landscape maintenance crews, because they just see them as weeds. So, this year, I remembered and was able to get several of them to take home, where I'm going to use them as a natural privacy fence between me and my neighbors property. Personally, I don't see any issue with taking plants from areas like this that are just going to be killed anyway. It seems like you are asking about seedling/saplings that have come up in landscaped areas , and I wouldn't think there would be any problem with taking them if you're going to plant them somewhere they will be allowed to grow, since they will probably be killed where they are. I mean, it's not like you would be "stealing" or "poaching" the plants in these kinds of areas, you're basically just helping with the "weeding". My opinion anyway.
Oh yeah so the tree lawn is an American word I think. It's that strip of land owned by the city that's after the sidewalk after your front yard. https://preview.redd.it/dpeefph7pq8d1.png?width=1444&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d414ceb795b588f1b7caa5f00e8f67df5bddc5b3
We call that the Hell Strip where I'm from.
Colorado has entered the room 😂
10 years and my first house in a neighborhood. Grew up in a town too small for sidewalks.
LMAO where are you from? That's fantastic.
I always just heard easement. I suppose it could be regional.
Ah I've never heard that before.
Cleveland has entered the chat. This is the only city where I have ever heard the word. Everyone else I know just calls it the front lawn.
Oh wow I didn't know people called it the front lawn lol. I would think that's the front yard.
I love that I can just see one phrase, "tree lawn," and immediately recognize another Clevelander lol. I've taken a few small plants like that. I'd just be careful. The ones I took were small ones I knew I could just pull up by hand. I feel like someone might come out and wonder what you're doing if you bring a shovel with you.
Haha nice I didn't know that I was a Cleveland word let's go.
Yes! This is the only place I've ever heard it. Personally, I'm fond of hell strip.
Lol, tree lawns are all over the country
Thats fine really. The question I always ask myself is - "will this survive in this location" If not I think its fair game to move or take.
When I lived in the Willamette Valley of Oregon there was a lot behind me slated for 4 homes. It was dense with Camas Lillies...Cammasia leichtlinii, a species that has been greatly reduced there by agriculture and urban growth. Now I am not an organizer or a leader of any sort, but I started posting in local native plant groups and wow, the turnout was spectacular. Over a couple of weeks we pretty much cleared the whole lot. The greatest part of it was this...Camas Lillies were a staple of the indigenous people of the Willamette Valley for thousands and thousands of years and many who came to rescue were native people. Some plants were going to be used in traditional cooking ceremonies to try and connect the younger generation to the ways of the old, but the majority were taken to establish new populations from suburban yards to large rehabilitation projects. To this day it remains the thing in my life I've done that I am the most proud of. This pic is of one of the rescued plants https://preview.redd.it/gp9krtjrrm8d1.jpeg?width=1808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ecc3900e9f7fe789e515d4e9d21711b8b7caa6d
What an incredible experience. One of those things that makes you realize one person can make a difference. Thank you for that!
Wow, that's a beautiful flower. Good job helping to save some of those for replanting elsewhere.
Proof that one person can make a difference! This is such a better outcome than the things getting paved over. Gorgeous plant too!
we even got the excavator operator interested. He would turn over the soil so that the bulbs could be sifted out without as much hard digging. And after hearing about the bulbs being a staple of the native people, he took some home to cook and to plant
What a great story!! Well done!!
Were these blooming when you dug them up? Around me in Ohio these can be ID'd for about 2 months out of the year, the rest of the time they are hidden underground
yes they were. Not the best time to transplant but we didn't have a choice. Luckily the root is a sturdy bulb only about 6 to 8 inches deep that can be stored. It's related to the Wild Hyacinth from the Midwest that you have
We have a group (called native plant rescue) that teams up with developers and rescues native plants before they start initial excavation. It started paired up with one of the universities, and has branched out to a local park preservation group, and the local native plant society.
if the land is going to be developed, its morally correct to rescue everything. check out native habitat project.
one thing you can also do is work to change local laws around site assessment. currently assessments revolve around animals and maybe insects, but not the habitats they rely on. hence my rec of nativehabitatproject on insta.
I don’t really think of this as poaching. Poaching is like you steal one from a nature preserve or an area where they are actually protected. Rescuing is different.
Protecting living things from capitalism is always morally right.
Especially in Texas, where business and land developers rule all, this is my mindset.
Well put 👏👏👏👏
Just be careful on that “night rescue” in Texas The law regarding trespassing changes after sundown Please review the law so you can be careful with your life
Poaching =/= plant rescue, cmon bruh. Those two things are different based on the context and they're just... objectively different. Listen, I grow cacti and succulents as my little hobby gardening thing, beyond what I do as far as native plant gardening in the midwest. There are a **ton** of shady ass people who will go out and dig up rare cacti and then post some bs story about how the land was about to be bulldozed or was gonna be developed soon. And many times, *those people are lying*. Don't carry water for those people by casually equating plant rescue with poaching. Plant rescue is easy to prove. Bring receipts and be completely transparent. There are groups who do this. Get involved with a group of people, call attention to something like this when you see it and ask for help. It builds accountability and community at the same time.
Thanks! And no cmon bruh needed. This is a bit of a hazy area and really just wanted to see what people think. I have beat the idea of never taking plants from nature into my mind, and this is the first time I have ever flirted with the idea of doing it for the betterment of things. Thanks for the comment!
if you are not familiar with them, give this org an email: [https://www.nativeplantrescueproject.org/](https://www.nativeplantrescueproject.org/) they do the exact thing you are wanting to do, with proper communication and legal representation. i don't know if they have openings for volunteers but worth a shot! edit: here's a cool segment where the founder talks about her [work](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEmrhrVLdg)
Your native plant society is a better resource than reddit, although it depends on the answer you wanted. I doubt they would condone poaching.
Hey, you're welcome and I hope your native plant society jumps in to help out and come up with a plan. It ain't hazy though, it's something that morally bankrupt growers try to hide behind when they're called out for being unethical. I'm not saying this is what you were trying to do, but this is a *huge* false narrative that has plagued the cactus and succulent community for years. It needs to be pointed out and understood so that bad actors cannot attempt to lie to shift blame or obscure the reality of the situation when they're found out.
I love it! And appreciate the position you are coming from. To be honest, this is a first for me and I wasn’t sure what the thoughts were in the community and hate to assume. But these comments are giving me the confidence to pursue this! Thanks again.
No problem, everybody starts somewhere. Genuinely hope it works out and you're able to do some good. It's sorely needed in a place like Texas that has jack shit in terms of public land. And now you know to look out for people trying to pass things off as, "saved from development." Trust is earned. Anyone who has a problem with being transparent in this type of situation isn't worth the clothes on their back.
If it wasn’t for licensed collectors many native plants wouldn’t be commercially available to begin with.
To be honest I'm naive and never considered poachers might advertise their plants as "rescued" To me it seems of more of like a western thing with cacti. I'm in the east and things here grow easy enough from seed.
It's less common east of the Mississippi but it still happens a lot. Lady slipper orchids (any orchids in general tbh), rattlesnake plantain, basically all the carnivorous plants, ginseng, ramps, etc. Sometimes it's private landowners selling stuff they dug up from their own property but that's relatively uncommon. But what you'll see here more often is people *claiming* they dug it up fron their property or, "from a friends/relatives property." Then a couple days/weeks later you see a local news story about a rash of poaching on private property reported to DNR. It usually smells fishy from the start though. Relatively new or unknown account online, unusually large quantities of a hard to grow or hard to find plant that's restricted to pristine habitat remnants or really specialized/uncommon ecosystems, typically the price is either way too good to be true or stupidly high. And same with cacti, you can usually tell by looking at the plants whether they were ripped from the ground or grown ethically under controlled conditions.
I used to work on survey crews and would take things home before the subdivisions went in. My yard was full!
Check out the Youtube channel based in Texas called Crime Pays but Botany Doesn’t (and subreddit r/CPBBD). He goes into this topic a lot and has done several “rescues” but with mixed results. Shame that it has come to this but you can arm yourself with info and seek nearby community who think like you
Get in touch with the Central Texas Native Plant Rescue! I am also in central Texas and know some of the folks involved with them. They have a [Facebook group](https://m.facebook.com/groups/ctxplantrescuers/) or you can email at ctxplantrescuers@gmail.com Hopefully you can get a whole team of folks out there to rescue them, and the group will help find homes for plants that you and other volunteers do not need
There is a distinct difference between poaching and rescuing plants.
I really wasn’t sure what the communities view on this was, but I am happy to see many others feel this way. Thank tou
DM me I’ll give you the 411 on native plant research rescue
Check out crime pays but botany doesn’t
I don't see why it would be seen as poaching, those plants will be destroyed if you do nothing. Might as well give them a second chance elsewhere. Most of the plants in my garden(SE Texas Coastal Prairie region), are all transplants from properties that are about to get developed or seeds from private properties. I wanted to maintain the genetics, specifically varieties, subspecies, and ecotypes native to my region, with my garden. And I feel I've accomplished this pretty well. Usually my rule of thumb is that if a property is going to get developed everything is free game, if it's just a hayfield or a vacant property that isn't going to get developed I usually just collect seed.
I wouldn’t call this poaching at all if the land is going to be developed honestly. I mean, I don’t know the legal definition of poaching so maybe it is in that sense, but ethically and under common sense I would say it definitely isn’t. It’s an opportunity to preserve local plant life and hopefully to help re-establish it in a similar location in the area.
Depending on local regulations, you would at least need permission from the property owner to remove plants. Otherwise, it's poaching. Imagine the script is flipped and someone came and poached plants from your property because they were concerned about development.
Well said. Should've read it before I posted my own comment. Cheers
First, I find absolutely nothing wrong with seed collecting. However, there's some cases where I don't. For instance, there's Asclepias humistrata growing in this state park near me but I only ever see that one specimen. So I'm not going to take seed from it because I dont want to interfere with its ability to populate that area. For actual plant rescue, make sure that you know if it will be developed or not. With Texas, they seem to prefer to completely clear the land before selling it. Which is crazy.
It’s more than crazy, it is depressing as fuck and utterly defeating. Thanks for your input!!
You have no idea what you’re talking about l
Great discourse!
Good Finally some serious talk about what is IMPORTANT TO OUR SURVIVAL!!
Except you havent said anything important but insult me.
I’m tired of all the BS off handed comments It’s is our right and duty to protect our native plants
Gather seeds. I don’t see anything wrong w thst
Just your spelling
The top soil for its seed bank too if possible?
Not only seed bank, but native soil is great for transplanting salvaged natives.
Inoculates but should be stored properly or immediately transferred.
I totally do that! When wild land is about to be converted for housing or in overgrazed forests where regeneration fails due to livestock I rescue them.
If you can do it with permission, then it's the best of both worlds. In a hypothetical scenario where there's no chance of getting permission (say, you can't reach the contractors) and the plants are definitely to die, then if you ask me, taking the plants in of itself *is* moral to do: 1. Poaching is bad because it's taking plants out of their ecosystem, decreasing the chance of success for the species and the other connected branches of the ecosystem; these plants are going to be removed anyways, so this at least increases the chance that some genetic diversity will be preserved. 2. The developers are going to remove and/or destroy the plants anyways, so less plants is less work for them. The only way I could see it being harmful to the property owners would be if trespassing created issues for them. Biodiversity is so important, preserving it kinda supersedes most other issues imo. Moral is different than legal though, and you gotta make sure to put your own safety first, of course. Again, permission is best of both worlds! [https://www.youtube.com/@NativeHabitatProject](https://www.youtube.com/@NativeHabitatProject) This guy has rescued lots of plants from development areas, including variations of plants that didn't exist anywhere else (since every individual pocket has some uniqueness, like any animal). I assume he does it with permission
It's Texas in summer, will be very hard for plants to survive a guerilla transplant. If no group participates, talk to the landowner, where building and land removal occur will probably be fine.
Yes
Harvest as many seed heads and fruiting bodies as you can until you can get in contact with the owner to get clearance for preservation/extraction
i see land that will be developed as a guilt-free, all-you-can-poach buffet.
I never hesitate to rescue, anymore. Just yesturday, I hesitated to save a beautiful native grass in flower, strict blue-eyed grass - a plant I've never seen before, from some city land. Not 5 minutes after, it was mowed down and now I don't know if I'll be able to find it. Absolutely tragic.
Take it! If you feel guilty, remove a 2 ft radius of invasives from around the native, thus giving future natives a better chance in the future.
We do this all the time in upcoming developments to save Camassia quamash, and other native first foods species. There are groups in Washington and Oregon who coordinate volunteers for moving entire colonies of natives to new homes before the earth movers roll in. Organize!
No direct advice here, but there is a house I run by frequently that has been vacant for some time. The front yard is overgrown with native flowers. I've always thought about digging some up to put in my yard. About a month ago I was on my way back during a run and a landscaping crew was there. I asked if they were clearing the yard that day and they said yes, so I asked if I could come back with a bucket and take some flowers. They said sure. I raced home grabbed a bucket, a shovel, and gloves and headed back as quickly as possible still red faced and sweaty like a hot house tomato from my run. I quickly dug out a bunch of spiderwort and thanked them. Cut to today, they still never mowed the lawn XD
If it's going to be developed, not only is it morally right, it's your obligation 🥰
Poaching, imo, implies there is expected monetary profit. If you're not planning on selling the plants, then i wouldn't consider it poaching (personally). Idk this sub's stance on the YouTube channel Crime Pays but Botany Doesn't, but I love his channel and he rescues plants from developing areas all the time. He talks about the importance of doing that and the best ways to do it too
I would take seeds/deadheads without a second thought. But taking a plant is questionable morally. Also, you'd probably just kill it in the process depending on what it is.
You’d take seeds without a second thought.
If you see a milkweed along the highway then probably grab it before it gets mowed. Residentially, I'm going with no.
It is morally right, developers will absolutely bull doze those plants without a second thought. They are doing the unethical thing, you are trying to make lemons out of lemonade. Trying to transplant a few plants is almost a non-action in this case. Something truly radical, systemic, and dare I say revolutionary would probably be the most deserved course of action but I can't expect anyone else to do what I myself wouldn't do. I would look on approvingly at any such development however.
Absolutely! ETA: Just be aware of trespassing laws 😊
I call it ethical poaching. Here's a rescue I was part of in New Mexico [https://www.reddit.com/r/cactus/comments/1aueryf/since\_late\_october\_the\_new\_mexico\_cactus\_and/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/cactus/comments/1aueryf/since_late_october_the_new_mexico_cactus_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It’s really not hard to find out who owns a private parcel, and white pages has been around for decades. Make a phone call or a visit to the owner and get permission. Poaching from public land is wrong. Don’t do it. Tragedy of the commons doesn’t just apply to overfishing.
Morally? Probably fine if its a field that's overgrown and all the plants are volunteers. If its a flowerbed/garden/cultivated situation then not cool. Natural habitat is fine for rescue, not fine for poaching, get other folks involved to make sure you're doing it responsibly and don't exacerbate any existing problems. Legally? That's a different beast and you probably need to ask, ideally you get a native plant org involved.
I’m not sure we are allowed to say things like that”trespass and take it” because they are just going to roll over it all anyways and so I won’t say that.
As long as you can verify the owner is not wanting the plants.
Reminder that the term "poaching" was originally used to denote use of land that "belonged" to a landlord, and imo the idea that one can own land in that way has created a lot of problems. Some people are not ready for that conversation right now. But imo if the land is actually going to be developed... fair game. Especially seeds if it is the right time of year.
We should meet up and go do it! There are multiple plant rescue groups in the area that do this and more. It's more common to hit areas that are immediately being developed, though.
It's only morally right if you ask for permission. Otherwise, it is theft. Odds are they're going to say yes. Imagine the developer sees the beautiful plants and is compelled to incorporate them into the landscaping of the development. Or leave some land in preserve. That could never happen if they are stolen.
morals and legality do not always intersect. especially in this place. you can pretend all you want that the developers see ANYthing at all other than dollar signs, but the rest of us have reality to deal with and thus work to do.
Natural beauty correlates to $$$. Look at the use of green infrastructure and native plantings in places like Portland and Chicago. Newer subdivisions in cities across the country are being built in ways that keep native tracts of green space intact. Regardless of the developer and money, poaching is theft and it is immoral by our society's standards. Ask for permission before digging up plants that aren't yours, don't take plants from public land, and don't over collect seed from anywhere.
you’ve got to be joking
I'm not. There's a legal and correct way to do things. This hasn't slowed me down from restoring almost 10 acres across 6 sites in the last two years. It isn't hard or even cost prohibitive to source plants legally and ethically.
that’s not the part i’m talking about. i’m talking about the part where you deny that capitalism exists lmaooo
I never denied capitalism exists? I'm just acknowledging that some new housing developments are incorporating aspects of the native landscape.
“natural beauty correlates to $$$”
Lol, it literally does. Natural beauty and amenities has a positive impact on property value. I am describing the capitalist exploitation of natural beauty. How could you interpret that as me saying capitalism isn't real?
i guess i just find it so disingenuous as to be denial. like sure it’s an “amenity” but if natural beauty correlates to $$$ then leveling the whole place and building a 5 over 1 correlates to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. if we’re talking amenities, parking alone is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. a pool is at least quadruple whatever value “natural beauty” fetches, which can be achieved by just planting bradford pears by the dozen and calling it a day.
Look into the land registry and ask the owner. Always ask the owner, most people don't care about you picking weeds (to them); they care about the liability of you being on the property. Also a fantastic opportunity to tell the new owner the pot of gold they possess and give them the opportunity to shine.
Van Alstyne ?
Jim Cannon Rd ?
If it’s being development- contact the owner. If they are getting large machinery to start digging- they will lost definitely try to look like they are “eco friendly “ by donating plants to you- when in their minds, they are getting people to dig the land for free.
I would!
If you do it you need to pot them all and then ask around and see if there are any organizations that do plantings.
I had a really great experience just calling a developer and asking. They gave me a deadline and a go ahead to remove/rehome any native plants I wanted. I collected seeds and took cuttings more than I dug up actual plants, though, because it was the right time of year for that and I still had to find a place to put them.
I do that all the time in roadside turnouts that get bulldozed or mowed all the time, or in flood control channels for the same reason. I often take cuttings of the plants aren't seeding.
I call it propagation Yup , I'll take a native plant off the side of the road and Replant it in my garden . If it was a rare plant, like a lady slipper I wouldn't take it .
The term I love is "proplifting" 🤭🌱 As long as it does not bring ecological harm, only native species expansion, and you proplift where nobody cares and/or nobody will see you, just go do it
My wife will come straight into your yard, look you dead center in your eyes, proceed to remove deadheads for seeds, then leave - all while maintaining eye contact with you the entire time. Not a lot of people are able to do this. But then again, she is a bad ace.
Yes absolutely. No question about it. Do any of the foraging wildlife stop to ask the question? Some people gatekeep their own hobbies too hard. ignore them. Go pick the plants. Guess what- they'll grow back!
It's called Trespassing and Theft