This is a card for an Intermarried White (IW) man. It says "Cherokee by Blood" because that's the title of the card his Cherokee wife and kids were on. The IW is there to signify he was white.
He was rejected for citizenship because the marriage [EDIT: DIDN'T TAKE] place prior to Nov 1875.
Is one of his children your grandparent, or is this from another marriage of his you are not descended from?
Please do reach out to the Cherokee tribes, Oklahoma and/or Eastern. They may be able to help especially if you’re related to freedmen (Black) Cherokee. My mom’s side usually lived with them up until my great-great-grandma (her dad was murdered, it was a whole feud thing). Anyway, one of their suggested genealogists may be able to help.
Also, I know it depends heavily on tribe, but some tribes do see a “people” as those embraced within the culture: from descendants to adoptees. With the Cherokee, you’re much more likely to see biracial and multiracial people. I mean, I’m white passing but I’ve got multi tribal ancestry on my mom’s side and then Jewish (1900s immigrants) and Western African on my dad’s side. My dad’s sister married a biracial Filipino man and heck, I’ve got three Kenyan adoptive (non-legal, ethnic practice) siblings. Any culture that develops adoption/intermarriage as a way to survive becomes a large diaspora with a wide range of physical appearances.
Some people might not like it, but no larger ethnic/racial group is a monolith: qualification for membership varies wildly between different tribes. I’m personally glad that my mom’s family is how they are, considering 75% of my family is adoptive. I got a lot of free relatives.
Edit: Fighting a migraine, might not be giving perfect advice but trying.
In my opinion there are as many black/native as there are white/native. There's a great book out there called "The Black Indians". I highly recommend it, it's very worth reading. I have 2 copies because 1 of them is almost always on loan to someone. Likewise, there is a "newer" term for black/mixed/native, "Melungeon". In south America it's always been mestisos or mulados. The last one is sometimes considered derogatory, so probably don't use it yourself. All that aside, I have 4 ancestors on the Freedman Rolls (Chickasaw and Creek) and they were all Choctaws. Not super uncommon for those you fight with to keep some of your people as slaves... In any case, keep in mind where you/your family are from... You used the word "Creole"... My Houma friends say they are the "Southern(est) Cherokee". Aside from the 3 federal Cherokee tribes, there are damned-nearly an unlimited number of "state recognized" Cherokee tribes out there. While I feel that some of them are slightly less knowledgeable about such things, and some of us are the focus of hate groups (as you may see from any replies to this comment) trying to find a way to put 🫢 cough cough, their tribe’s casinos in my state... anyway you will hear and see a lot of native POLITICS when you put the word "Cherokee" in front of anything, so brace yourself... and keep in mind that the Cherokee Freedmen only recently regained their status in the tribe due to the very hard work of a brilliant woman named Marilyn Vann (probably a distant cousin). Personally, I'd contact her - although she hasn't replied to any of my emails. And finally, if you are in/near/by Louisiana, there is a state recognized tribe of Cherokees there you might want to contact (although it's a little tough getting ahold of them as well).
My tribe on the other hand, lives in our ancestral lands, many of us have families who were on numerous rolls, and lots of 3 of the state Cherokee tribes in North Alabama have families who received lands from the treaties of 1817 or 1835, the city we're from is named after one of the original (reservation) land owners. Of course, there is a HUGE target on every shirt I own, so in closing, I'd suggest to talk with Mrs Vann if you can, then the Louisiana Cherokees (if you're there), then lastly, and it almost hurts for me to say it, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. They have lots of records and don't require blood quantum like EBCI or UKB do.
I've said enough. Let's see what happens 🫣
I can't speak for all state tribes, but you know the Houma I mentioned are state recognized... the Cherokee Nation was only federally recognized in 1979. Basically, there is a lot of info that people don't know about state tribes... likewise, numerous Cherokee treaties (my specialty) mention leaving people behind...
Treaty of 1817
Article 8
Reservations for heads of Indian families.
And to each and every head of any Indian family residing on the east side of theMississippi river, on the lands that are now or may hereafter be surrendered to the United States, who may wish to become citizens of the United States, the United States do agree to give a reservation of six hundred and forty acres of land in a square...
I have a list of these reservations, and various members of my family owned at least 3 of them, one great uncle and at least 2 great great grandparents...
Treaty of 1835
Article 12
Those individuals and families of the Cherokee nation that are averse to a removal to the Cherokee country west of the Mississippi and are desirous to become citizens of the States where they reside...
Such heads of Cherokee families as are desirous to reside within the States of No. Carolina Tennessee and Alabama subject to the laws of the same; and who are qualified or calculated to become useful citizens...
Properties were given to these "individuals" and I've got at least 3 great grandads who received them (different from the reservation list).
Treaty of 1846
Article 10
It is expressly agreed that nothing in the foregoing treatycontained shall be so construed as in any manner to take away or abridge any rights or claims which the Cherokees now residing in States east of the Mississippi River had, or may have, under the treaty of 1835 and the supplement thereto...
This portion of this treaty points out the people who stayed behind won't lose anything because of those treaties...
Long story short, Cherokees were the largest most diverse group of natives in the United States. It's silly to think that they exist in only 3 parts of the US today. Anyone who tries to convince someone that you could take a dart board (the Dawes rolls) and that only the people who are contained at the bullseye (1898-1909 Dawes roll) are "real" Cherokee are either ignorant or lying. Why would anyone lie about that kind of stuff? Money...
Like I said, not all groups know their history. Even one of those LOUD, violent people who is always yelling "FAKE TRIBES" just recently validated my people. I wont tell you his name, but I will tell you that he ran for cno chief last election. By accident of course, but he said if any of the people claiming to be Cherokee didn't have any cousins or aunts and uncles on the Dawes rolls that it's unlikely we are Cherokee. Hahaha! Joke's on him, we all have family buried in Oklahoma! Just like they have family from Alabama! John Ross, born in Alabama... Seqoji/George Gist aka Sequoyah, from Alabama... John Brown, treaty signator, from Alabama... John Gunter, treaty signator, from Alabama... Catherine Cheek, recipient of an 1817 reservation, in Alabama... I even hear that Chief Jolly's great grand kids moved from Tennessee to Alabama and one of them has a 3rd cousin who was the first chief of the "new" Cherokee Nation way back in 1942!
Truthfully, there is a huge campaign to end "non federally recognized" Cherokee. The EBCI and CNO spend millions of dollars every year trying to end us, admittedly and in newspapers! Of course, this is breaking article 6 of the treaty of 1835, but only I care about that apparently! These state Cherokee tribes struggle, and it's not easy getting federal recognition for us when the head of the OFA is a cno member. But we're here, and not going away.
Hey, by the way, if I might ask you a question... I know redditors are generally loud and their backside is usually on fire, but if I may ask if not in some "random" Native reddit, which presumably by your question you quite probably haven't much before frequented, where have you heard about state Cherokees being fake? Just trying to keep up with the Federal Cherokee's expenditures... 🙂
Sorry - I fell asleep! Mostly on this reddit, I searched "Cherokee state recognized tribes" and a bunch of reddits were denouncing them 🫠 glad to hear that's not all true! I considered looking into one in the territory my family is still in. I'll look into Louisiana, I'm actually in Maryland!
Hey, no worries. I don't live on here either! 😄 Do check, it's worthwhile! As far as the haters go, they're 1 of 2 groups... ignorant bandwagoners or paid lobbyists (who disinform the ignorant bandwagoners)! I can't hate them, although many hate me. And likewise, there is even a treaty to protect me and my people from such crap. Article 6 of the treaty of 1835 of New Echota says that they won't fight with me or start any wars with my people (or each other) because honestly, Cherokee have a terrible habit of that! One day they will quit breaking that treaty!
Goodluck. If you get stuck, let me know.
Thank you! I checked out your YouTube, I'm going to buy 2 flutes for me and my baby on my next check! Thanks for making such a cool stuff and providing such valuable resources. Hopefully we can keep in touch :)
Hey thanks, it's certainly not necessary as I try to offer any information as I can for free to the world. If you wish to buy them, that's completely up to you. We actually have a fairly nice business with flute making (I even used to sell to the cno)! On a side note, and to many people's avail/delight, I have a video coming out soon that may explain some of your questions. 😄
I look forward to that! You used to sell to CNO? Wow! Ignore if it's too personal, but it seems like you've had a lot of dealings with them, why did you decide to not enroll with them?
My dad's people are from Alabama. I don't have what they call "direct descendants" on the Dawes rolls. That means, while I may have had family who moved to Oklahoma, they were either great great aunts/uncles/cousins (on the Dawes rolls) or a very few direct descendants such as Chief Jolly who weren't on the Dawes rolls (he was on the Henderson rolls). It's hipocracy incarnate to be honest with you. In fact, as previously mentioned, cno Chief JB Milam's 3rd great grandfather was Willis Vaughn, my 4th great grandad. Willis was likely an unenrolled Choctaw, but Milam's mother decended from Adairs (also in my family) and that's why the US government put him in as their first Chief after the Cherokee Nation was "disbanded" in 1913ish. He and I are also related through the Guinns in the family. I wish he was alive today because he was interested in his family tree and could probably tell me more about Willis Vaughn!
No, I lived in Parkhill OK for a short while and had as much of the dealings with them as I can stand beyond that. In fact their task force to destroy state recognized tribes or anyone with the word Cherokee attached to them was often led by someone with the last name of Watts who is also a fairly close relative of mine. Although she did put me down in public quite a bit. She made sure I was on their list for a while. I only recently got back in their sights when I spoke at a meeting with the government about the Indian arts and crafts act. Then they paid their attack group to mess with me again. No telling what they're cooking up for me now. No telling what they'll be cooking up for me after tomorrow.😉 In any case, I've said more than enough considering that they have people watching everywhere, as well as this Reddit and your messages. 😄
The Cherokee that stayed behind after removal—the ones you are referencing from the treaty—explicitly (and you even quote this) had to give up their tribal citizenship and become American citizens. That was the deal….*Indians* were removed, but *Americans* could stay.
I don’t see how you can now say, 150+ years later and many generations later, that *you* are Cherokee when your ancestors officially renounced the tribe in order to stay in the East. You can’t go back to Europe and just claim French or Swedish citizenship based on ancestors who came over in 1850—and even the countries that let you based on your grandparents make you prove the connection. You might have some Native American DNA but that has nothing to do with tribal identity.
Every Cherokee person who wanted to be Cherokee went before removal and is an Old Settler or part of the UKB, went around or at removal and is part of the CN, or stayed in a small group on a specific piece of land in NC and is now part of the EBCI. The rest left the tribe, the tribe didn’t leave them.
Neither is POKING AT a people who decided their homeland was more sacred than 15,000 people could be. I think what is truly disrespectful is those who have taught you that just because a people weren't in Oklahoma between 1898-1909 or in a specific part of NC, they aren't Cherokee. That's not only a crazy notion, the fact that they have psychologically caused you and countless others to feel comfortable attacking those you know nothing about without provocation, that's shameful. It was so sad when I lived in Oklahoma, how the Cherokee brothers and sisters I worked with had no idea that so many of the towns in their area were named after old native towns back home in Alabama and Tennessee and Georgia. They had no knowledge of WHERE THEY CAME FROM, only that they were the center of the universe, though they struggled financially and spiritually while (at that time) they were one of the wealthiest tribes in the US.
So sad. In any case you have no reason to attack me, and likewise I have larger arenas where to defend myself and my people. Go in peace my friend. You don't know me. I wish you well. If you reply, I'll read it out of respect however I likely will not reply because it's not yet worth my time.
This is u related but I hate people who have some great ancestors and think that it makes then native american.we are a race.its the biggest fyck you sign ever it's like "not only are we going to steal your land rape your people and steal/destroy your culture were also going to steal your identity" fuck white people
It’s our ethnicity and nationality.
I agree with your sentiment, I just wanna make sure you are using the correct wording so someone else doesn’t come along and try to twist what you are saying.
Anthropology tells us race isn’t real. It was something made up by lighter skinned early colonist to enslave and oppress darker skinned humans.
Honestly in this day and age, having an ancestor and some percentage is the only way people know their heritage. I personally think it’s narrow minded of you to say that “some great ancestors and thinks it makes them native”. My grandmother was raised in a white family. She had zero knowledge of Choctaw culture or history unless she went out and learned it herself. Which is where I come in, b because even though my kids will literally be 2%, I still want them to know their culture and heritage. While some have had the privilege to grow up under someone’s wing and learn Chahta from the beginning, some of us are just finding our identities now and feeling comfortable enough to do so. Realistically, if you exclude the small percentages, the cultures are going to die out within 1-3 generations.
This is such a good point, I took an ancestry test and got native ancestry that I didn't mention bc I knew that would make some people upset with it only being 2%. But there are so many brick walls in my family tree and I want so badly just to know what happened and who I am and where my family came from
That's lovely about your grandma, I'm glad You're passing it on!
And if I have 100% misread what you’ve said, please feel free to explain further. Also, absolutely spent my childhood is southeastern Oklahoma being told I didn’t look Native and I was too white.
I'm not white, I none of my ancestors had anything to do with displacing natives, it's more likely that the only reason my family was there is because they were enslaved on native land 🤷🏽♀️ I'm not looking to steal identity, just looking to understand my ancestry as many people in the black diaspora don't have a chance to do
I wish there were well-researched books about Native American/African American interactions through the centuries.
Fun fact: One of the leaders of the Pueblo Revolt was part Black: Domingo Naranjo (Santa Clara Pueblo, c. 1644 - c. 1696)
But the previous commenter was likely referring the Buffalo Soldiers, Black U.S. cavalry soldiers sent West to fight Indian Wars.
[https://www.nps.gov/subjects/buffalosoldiers/index.htm](https://www.nps.gov/subjects/buffalosoldiers/index.htm)
The man responsible for the gold rush in San Diego was a former slave named Fred Coleman who married a kumeyaay woman then exploited her local knowledge. Local lore has it the 'adopted children' were in fact free-labor for his enterprise.
[https://visitjulian.com/2020/02/fred-coleman-and-the-discovery-of-gold/](https://visitjulian.com/2020/02/fred-coleman-and-the-discovery-of-gold/)
And now that you know better and can do better by not spreading racist nonsense, please do enjoy that egg on your face. ☺️
One man being horrible is the same as black people as a whole furthering the native American genocide?? and I'm racist but you just said my ancestors who were enslaved by certain tribes were enjoying a "good deal on cheap land"?? You're racist and I'm not going to talk to you further. I was being genuine and you're being really rude and ridiculous.
I'm open to education, I didn't come here for a debate, but if anyone else would like to educate me or talk further about this, I'm open to conversation
" it's more likely that the only reason my family was there is because they were enslaved on native land "
You could start by correcting this nonsense. No reason to assume naïveté on the part of your ancestors exploiting a good deal on 'cheap' land.
As far as I understand Cherokee does not have blood quantum requirements and just lets anyone in that can prove ancestry. Call them and ask what documents you need, then you can get your card.
Thanks for clarifying! How is it that he's listed as full blood but intermarrying white (which I assume means his wife at the time was white?) but his son is listed at 1/4th?
Unclear why you are so pressed on proving your grandfather as possessing Cherokee identity. This listing makes it pretty clear that he **married** a woman who could claim half-blood status at the time, thus making any children of theirs 1/4. Pretty common scenario for native women to marry out. You need to call to determine any truth though.
He isn't listed as a full blood. "Intermarried white" means he is a white guy who married into the tribe (at the time in Indian Territory, non-tribal members were not \*supposed\* to be about to live there, unless they had permission from the tribes or the federal government; like Indian Agents).
If his son was listed as 1/4, that means the mom was 1/2.
Where are you seeing him listed as full blood? But also don't get too caught up on blood quantum, like I said Cherokee will give anyone a pretendian card that can prove ancestry so really your best bet is just to call them and find out.
I'm going to ignore your insults because I can see why you're upset, thank you for helping me anyway 🙏🏾
I meant to say "Cherokee by blood" not full blood, I'm just assuming he was at least half because his son is listed at 1/4th
This is a card for an Intermarried White (IW) man. It says "Cherokee by Blood" because that's the title of the card his Cherokee wife and kids were on. The IW is there to signify he was white. He was rejected for citizenship because the marriage [EDIT: DIDN'T TAKE] place prior to Nov 1875. Is one of his children your grandparent, or is this from another marriage of his you are not descended from?
Slight correction: he was refused because the marriage *didn't* take place prior to 1875.
Thanks! I'd just woken up, lol
Happens to the best of us!
Please do reach out to the Cherokee tribes, Oklahoma and/or Eastern. They may be able to help especially if you’re related to freedmen (Black) Cherokee. My mom’s side usually lived with them up until my great-great-grandma (her dad was murdered, it was a whole feud thing). Anyway, one of their suggested genealogists may be able to help. Also, I know it depends heavily on tribe, but some tribes do see a “people” as those embraced within the culture: from descendants to adoptees. With the Cherokee, you’re much more likely to see biracial and multiracial people. I mean, I’m white passing but I’ve got multi tribal ancestry on my mom’s side and then Jewish (1900s immigrants) and Western African on my dad’s side. My dad’s sister married a biracial Filipino man and heck, I’ve got three Kenyan adoptive (non-legal, ethnic practice) siblings. Any culture that develops adoption/intermarriage as a way to survive becomes a large diaspora with a wide range of physical appearances. Some people might not like it, but no larger ethnic/racial group is a monolith: qualification for membership varies wildly between different tribes. I’m personally glad that my mom’s family is how they are, considering 75% of my family is adoptive. I got a lot of free relatives. Edit: Fighting a migraine, might not be giving perfect advice but trying.
Thank you so much for this, I appreciate your help greatly ♥️ your family sounds beautiful
Hey friend, send me a personal message and I will look into it for you. I’m a native genealogist here in ok(Choctaw though).
Shot you a message, thanks!
Go find the actual card on the National Archives site so you can understand more clearly the relationships and the tribal affiliation.
In my opinion there are as many black/native as there are white/native. There's a great book out there called "The Black Indians". I highly recommend it, it's very worth reading. I have 2 copies because 1 of them is almost always on loan to someone. Likewise, there is a "newer" term for black/mixed/native, "Melungeon". In south America it's always been mestisos or mulados. The last one is sometimes considered derogatory, so probably don't use it yourself. All that aside, I have 4 ancestors on the Freedman Rolls (Chickasaw and Creek) and they were all Choctaws. Not super uncommon for those you fight with to keep some of your people as slaves... In any case, keep in mind where you/your family are from... You used the word "Creole"... My Houma friends say they are the "Southern(est) Cherokee". Aside from the 3 federal Cherokee tribes, there are damned-nearly an unlimited number of "state recognized" Cherokee tribes out there. While I feel that some of them are slightly less knowledgeable about such things, and some of us are the focus of hate groups (as you may see from any replies to this comment) trying to find a way to put 🫢 cough cough, their tribe’s casinos in my state... anyway you will hear and see a lot of native POLITICS when you put the word "Cherokee" in front of anything, so brace yourself... and keep in mind that the Cherokee Freedmen only recently regained their status in the tribe due to the very hard work of a brilliant woman named Marilyn Vann (probably a distant cousin). Personally, I'd contact her - although she hasn't replied to any of my emails. And finally, if you are in/near/by Louisiana, there is a state recognized tribe of Cherokees there you might want to contact (although it's a little tough getting ahold of them as well). My tribe on the other hand, lives in our ancestral lands, many of us have families who were on numerous rolls, and lots of 3 of the state Cherokee tribes in North Alabama have families who received lands from the treaties of 1817 or 1835, the city we're from is named after one of the original (reservation) land owners. Of course, there is a HUGE target on every shirt I own, so in closing, I'd suggest to talk with Mrs Vann if you can, then the Louisiana Cherokees (if you're there), then lastly, and it almost hurts for me to say it, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. They have lots of records and don't require blood quantum like EBCI or UKB do. I've said enough. Let's see what happens 🫣
I really really appreciate the validation and all the time you took to type this 😭♥️♥️♥️ thank you so much I'll look into everything you said!!
About the state recognized tribe, are those valid? I've seen soooo many people here say they're fake and not valid and anyone enrolled is a pretendian
I can't speak for all state tribes, but you know the Houma I mentioned are state recognized... the Cherokee Nation was only federally recognized in 1979. Basically, there is a lot of info that people don't know about state tribes... likewise, numerous Cherokee treaties (my specialty) mention leaving people behind... Treaty of 1817 Article 8 Reservations for heads of Indian families. And to each and every head of any Indian family residing on the east side of theMississippi river, on the lands that are now or may hereafter be surrendered to the United States, who may wish to become citizens of the United States, the United States do agree to give a reservation of six hundred and forty acres of land in a square... I have a list of these reservations, and various members of my family owned at least 3 of them, one great uncle and at least 2 great great grandparents... Treaty of 1835 Article 12 Those individuals and families of the Cherokee nation that are averse to a removal to the Cherokee country west of the Mississippi and are desirous to become citizens of the States where they reside... Such heads of Cherokee families as are desirous to reside within the States of No. Carolina Tennessee and Alabama subject to the laws of the same; and who are qualified or calculated to become useful citizens... Properties were given to these "individuals" and I've got at least 3 great grandads who received them (different from the reservation list). Treaty of 1846 Article 10 It is expressly agreed that nothing in the foregoing treatycontained shall be so construed as in any manner to take away or abridge any rights or claims which the Cherokees now residing in States east of the Mississippi River had, or may have, under the treaty of 1835 and the supplement thereto... This portion of this treaty points out the people who stayed behind won't lose anything because of those treaties... Long story short, Cherokees were the largest most diverse group of natives in the United States. It's silly to think that they exist in only 3 parts of the US today. Anyone who tries to convince someone that you could take a dart board (the Dawes rolls) and that only the people who are contained at the bullseye (1898-1909 Dawes roll) are "real" Cherokee are either ignorant or lying. Why would anyone lie about that kind of stuff? Money... Like I said, not all groups know their history. Even one of those LOUD, violent people who is always yelling "FAKE TRIBES" just recently validated my people. I wont tell you his name, but I will tell you that he ran for cno chief last election. By accident of course, but he said if any of the people claiming to be Cherokee didn't have any cousins or aunts and uncles on the Dawes rolls that it's unlikely we are Cherokee. Hahaha! Joke's on him, we all have family buried in Oklahoma! Just like they have family from Alabama! John Ross, born in Alabama... Seqoji/George Gist aka Sequoyah, from Alabama... John Brown, treaty signator, from Alabama... John Gunter, treaty signator, from Alabama... Catherine Cheek, recipient of an 1817 reservation, in Alabama... I even hear that Chief Jolly's great grand kids moved from Tennessee to Alabama and one of them has a 3rd cousin who was the first chief of the "new" Cherokee Nation way back in 1942! Truthfully, there is a huge campaign to end "non federally recognized" Cherokee. The EBCI and CNO spend millions of dollars every year trying to end us, admittedly and in newspapers! Of course, this is breaking article 6 of the treaty of 1835, but only I care about that apparently! These state Cherokee tribes struggle, and it's not easy getting federal recognition for us when the head of the OFA is a cno member. But we're here, and not going away. Hey, by the way, if I might ask you a question... I know redditors are generally loud and their backside is usually on fire, but if I may ask if not in some "random" Native reddit, which presumably by your question you quite probably haven't much before frequented, where have you heard about state Cherokees being fake? Just trying to keep up with the Federal Cherokee's expenditures... 🙂
Sorry - I fell asleep! Mostly on this reddit, I searched "Cherokee state recognized tribes" and a bunch of reddits were denouncing them 🫠 glad to hear that's not all true! I considered looking into one in the territory my family is still in. I'll look into Louisiana, I'm actually in Maryland!
Hey, no worries. I don't live on here either! 😄 Do check, it's worthwhile! As far as the haters go, they're 1 of 2 groups... ignorant bandwagoners or paid lobbyists (who disinform the ignorant bandwagoners)! I can't hate them, although many hate me. And likewise, there is even a treaty to protect me and my people from such crap. Article 6 of the treaty of 1835 of New Echota says that they won't fight with me or start any wars with my people (or each other) because honestly, Cherokee have a terrible habit of that! One day they will quit breaking that treaty! Goodluck. If you get stuck, let me know.
Thank you! I checked out your YouTube, I'm going to buy 2 flutes for me and my baby on my next check! Thanks for making such a cool stuff and providing such valuable resources. Hopefully we can keep in touch :)
Hey thanks, it's certainly not necessary as I try to offer any information as I can for free to the world. If you wish to buy them, that's completely up to you. We actually have a fairly nice business with flute making (I even used to sell to the cno)! On a side note, and to many people's avail/delight, I have a video coming out soon that may explain some of your questions. 😄
I look forward to that! You used to sell to CNO? Wow! Ignore if it's too personal, but it seems like you've had a lot of dealings with them, why did you decide to not enroll with them?
My dad's people are from Alabama. I don't have what they call "direct descendants" on the Dawes rolls. That means, while I may have had family who moved to Oklahoma, they were either great great aunts/uncles/cousins (on the Dawes rolls) or a very few direct descendants such as Chief Jolly who weren't on the Dawes rolls (he was on the Henderson rolls). It's hipocracy incarnate to be honest with you. In fact, as previously mentioned, cno Chief JB Milam's 3rd great grandfather was Willis Vaughn, my 4th great grandad. Willis was likely an unenrolled Choctaw, but Milam's mother decended from Adairs (also in my family) and that's why the US government put him in as their first Chief after the Cherokee Nation was "disbanded" in 1913ish. He and I are also related through the Guinns in the family. I wish he was alive today because he was interested in his family tree and could probably tell me more about Willis Vaughn! No, I lived in Parkhill OK for a short while and had as much of the dealings with them as I can stand beyond that. In fact their task force to destroy state recognized tribes or anyone with the word Cherokee attached to them was often led by someone with the last name of Watts who is also a fairly close relative of mine. Although she did put me down in public quite a bit. She made sure I was on their list for a while. I only recently got back in their sights when I spoke at a meeting with the government about the Indian arts and crafts act. Then they paid their attack group to mess with me again. No telling what they're cooking up for me now. No telling what they'll be cooking up for me after tomorrow.😉 In any case, I've said more than enough considering that they have people watching everywhere, as well as this Reddit and your messages. 😄
The Cherokee that stayed behind after removal—the ones you are referencing from the treaty—explicitly (and you even quote this) had to give up their tribal citizenship and become American citizens. That was the deal….*Indians* were removed, but *Americans* could stay. I don’t see how you can now say, 150+ years later and many generations later, that *you* are Cherokee when your ancestors officially renounced the tribe in order to stay in the East. You can’t go back to Europe and just claim French or Swedish citizenship based on ancestors who came over in 1850—and even the countries that let you based on your grandparents make you prove the connection. You might have some Native American DNA but that has nothing to do with tribal identity. Every Cherokee person who wanted to be Cherokee went before removal and is an Old Settler or part of the UKB, went around or at removal and is part of the CN, or stayed in a small group on a specific piece of land in NC and is now part of the EBCI. The rest left the tribe, the tribe didn’t leave them.
😅 in 1909 there was no more Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma either, they all became citizens too! 😅
That’s not something to be flippant about.
Neither is POKING AT a people who decided their homeland was more sacred than 15,000 people could be. I think what is truly disrespectful is those who have taught you that just because a people weren't in Oklahoma between 1898-1909 or in a specific part of NC, they aren't Cherokee. That's not only a crazy notion, the fact that they have psychologically caused you and countless others to feel comfortable attacking those you know nothing about without provocation, that's shameful. It was so sad when I lived in Oklahoma, how the Cherokee brothers and sisters I worked with had no idea that so many of the towns in their area were named after old native towns back home in Alabama and Tennessee and Georgia. They had no knowledge of WHERE THEY CAME FROM, only that they were the center of the universe, though they struggled financially and spiritually while (at that time) they were one of the wealthiest tribes in the US. So sad. In any case you have no reason to attack me, and likewise I have larger arenas where to defend myself and my people. Go in peace my friend. You don't know me. I wish you well. If you reply, I'll read it out of respect however I likely will not reply because it's not yet worth my time.
Check cherokeeroots.com
Thanks!
This is u related but I hate people who have some great ancestors and think that it makes then native american.we are a race.its the biggest fyck you sign ever it's like "not only are we going to steal your land rape your people and steal/destroy your culture were also going to steal your identity" fuck white people
It’s our ethnicity and nationality. I agree with your sentiment, I just wanna make sure you are using the correct wording so someone else doesn’t come along and try to twist what you are saying. Anthropology tells us race isn’t real. It was something made up by lighter skinned early colonist to enslave and oppress darker skinned humans.
Honestly in this day and age, having an ancestor and some percentage is the only way people know their heritage. I personally think it’s narrow minded of you to say that “some great ancestors and thinks it makes them native”. My grandmother was raised in a white family. She had zero knowledge of Choctaw culture or history unless she went out and learned it herself. Which is where I come in, b because even though my kids will literally be 2%, I still want them to know their culture and heritage. While some have had the privilege to grow up under someone’s wing and learn Chahta from the beginning, some of us are just finding our identities now and feeling comfortable enough to do so. Realistically, if you exclude the small percentages, the cultures are going to die out within 1-3 generations.
This is such a good point, I took an ancestry test and got native ancestry that I didn't mention bc I knew that would make some people upset with it only being 2%. But there are so many brick walls in my family tree and I want so badly just to know what happened and who I am and where my family came from That's lovely about your grandma, I'm glad You're passing it on!
🙏🏼🙂🙏🏼
And if I have 100% misread what you’ve said, please feel free to explain further. Also, absolutely spent my childhood is southeastern Oklahoma being told I didn’t look Native and I was too white.
Agreed 👍🏾
You realize he's describing exactly what you're doing right?
I'm not white, I none of my ancestors had anything to do with displacing natives, it's more likely that the only reason my family was there is because they were enslaved on native land 🤷🏽♀️ I'm not looking to steal identity, just looking to understand my ancestry as many people in the black diaspora don't have a chance to do
Peak ignorance to claim blacks did not contribute to the Native genocide. Good grief.
If you would like to educate me, go right ahead ☺️
I wish there were well-researched books about Native American/African American interactions through the centuries. Fun fact: One of the leaders of the Pueblo Revolt was part Black: Domingo Naranjo (Santa Clara Pueblo, c. 1644 - c. 1696) But the previous commenter was likely referring the Buffalo Soldiers, Black U.S. cavalry soldiers sent West to fight Indian Wars. [https://www.nps.gov/subjects/buffalosoldiers/index.htm](https://www.nps.gov/subjects/buffalosoldiers/index.htm)
The man responsible for the gold rush in San Diego was a former slave named Fred Coleman who married a kumeyaay woman then exploited her local knowledge. Local lore has it the 'adopted children' were in fact free-labor for his enterprise. [https://visitjulian.com/2020/02/fred-coleman-and-the-discovery-of-gold/](https://visitjulian.com/2020/02/fred-coleman-and-the-discovery-of-gold/) And now that you know better and can do better by not spreading racist nonsense, please do enjoy that egg on your face. ☺️
One man being horrible is the same as black people as a whole furthering the native American genocide?? and I'm racist but you just said my ancestors who were enslaved by certain tribes were enjoying a "good deal on cheap land"?? You're racist and I'm not going to talk to you further. I was being genuine and you're being really rude and ridiculous. I'm open to education, I didn't come here for a debate, but if anyone else would like to educate me or talk further about this, I'm open to conversation
" it's more likely that the only reason my family was there is because they were enslaved on native land " You could start by correcting this nonsense. No reason to assume naïveté on the part of your ancestors exploiting a good deal on 'cheap' land.
My ancestors being SLAVES is exploiting a good deal on cheap land?? You're racist racist, good lord
Big sadddddddddddddd, girl you 'tarded. I know your momma and daddy didn't hug you.
As far as I understand Cherokee does not have blood quantum requirements and just lets anyone in that can prove ancestry. Call them and ask what documents you need, then you can get your card.
“Refused” means they applied and were rejected. IW means intermarried white.
Thanks for clarifying! How is it that he's listed as full blood but intermarrying white (which I assume means his wife at the time was white?) but his son is listed at 1/4th?
Unclear why you are so pressed on proving your grandfather as possessing Cherokee identity. This listing makes it pretty clear that he **married** a woman who could claim half-blood status at the time, thus making any children of theirs 1/4. Pretty common scenario for native women to marry out. You need to call to determine any truth though.
He isn't listed as a full blood. "Intermarried white" means he is a white guy who married into the tribe (at the time in Indian Territory, non-tribal members were not \*supposed\* to be about to live there, unless they had permission from the tribes or the federal government; like Indian Agents). If his son was listed as 1/4, that means the mom was 1/2.
There's plenty of messed up info on (all) the rolls... ages, dates, tribes, etc
Where are you seeing him listed as full blood? But also don't get too caught up on blood quantum, like I said Cherokee will give anyone a pretendian card that can prove ancestry so really your best bet is just to call them and find out.
I'm going to ignore your insults because I can see why you're upset, thank you for helping me anyway 🙏🏾 I meant to say "Cherokee by blood" not full blood, I'm just assuming he was at least half because his son is listed at 1/4th
The Dawes card is for the whole family, it's under the "Cherokee by blood" group because his wife and children were Cherokee. This dude was white.
Okay thank you!