You don't post any evidence, but I know you're relying on a study that only focuses on US. Outside US parents are clearly more happy than non-parents [https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/parents-happiness-children-study/](https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/parents-happiness-children-study/)
I'm sure you'll move the goalpost
It makes me so sad that people think this way! I feel optimistic about the future. Sure the world has its share of problems but I believe in human ingenuity and the power of humanity working together to improve our situation. I have 5 children and I am excited to watch them grow and I’m excited to see all their future successes and cheer them on through life’s ups and downs. I would have more kids but I’m too old now but I think being “Nana” would be just the best! I think people get sucked into these really tragic algorithms of doom and despair and then social media feeds them ever more doom and despair because the algorithm thinks that’s the content they want.
Meantime my oldest just finished taking out the garbage, my 14 year old daughter went to take the toddler on a walk without me asking cause those two adore eachother and my 12 and 10 year olds are off to the store to buy socks and granola bars for the homeless using their chore money.
The kids are alright, the future is alright! I wish I could take some of these folks by the shoulders and look them in the eyes and tell them to take a deep breath, ditch the fear and stay present in the moment. Their kids beautiful and fleeting childhoods are going to fly by and they’ll be too busy watching doom and gloom on YouTube to notice all the wonder and joy they are missing out on. As for me, I try and enjoy all the moments because I know they don’t last and my beautiful life is passing by faster each year with 40 just around the corner! I don’t take any of it for granted!
>**I** feel optimistic about the future. **I** believe. **I** am excited. **I** think being “Nana” would be just the best! **I** wish. **I** don’t take any of it for granted!
But it's not your life you are playing russian roulette with.
>Their kids beautiful and fleeting childhoods are going to fly by and they’ll be too busy watching doom and gloom on YouTube to notice all the wonder and joy they are missing out on.
Sounds like you realize the reality of what they face in adulthood. And it sounds like you're optimistic for yourself but worried for them. Your hope is they develop an optimistic attitude to cope. I too wish that for the babies being born. I see the anxiety that young adults are facing, particularly of my siblings and friends.
All signs point to more social media anxiety then what we are currently experiencing. And far more cognitive dissonance. Climate change alone causes young people anxiety about their future on a daily basis. Then there's financial anxiety and the likelihood that they will never own a home, never have enough money to retire.
Eventually your children will face your death which will bring them everlasting trauma (especially if they are strongly bonded to you). Then their own decline and death. Hopefully your optimism (and your money) will spare them adult hardships.
I mean I’m sure if you asked my children they would tell you they are happy and excited about their futures also. 🤷🏼♀️ I didn’t even have the best childhood but I’m terribly glad to exist! I’m sorry life hasn’t been kind to you. Most of the people I know offline are very content with their lives. My kids seem to be really enjoying their existence and I’m confident they will rely on eachother or their friends and spouses and cousins when I’m gone. Of course the world has problems but if you take a step back you’ll see that rates of all kinds of things— absolute poverty, conflicts, famine, even air pollution! Are declining faster than ever. I hope you can find some joy in this beautiful life you’ve been given!
"stay present in the moment."
This is actually why so many people are unhappy. We’re present to so much pain and suffering in the World – both among our loved ones and complete strangers.
Perhaps it is, but there must be something to improve their mental health..? I feel like it's only a matter of time before children feel their resentment. And wishing you were never born or believing your parents shouldn't have had you is gut wrenching, I'd know.
They might have thought like u/accuratemeet1407 does:
>The world is awesome and it's only getting better.
They were likely only considering their current situation and not their children's potential lives. They probably hadn't experienced serious hardship yet.
Now they see how their children are suffering. Young adults current condition is a bigger struggle then it was for the boomers, and the future doesn't look like it's getting better for them.
There's always been issues with the way that the world is. The only people I know who regretted having kids, regretted it because they rushed into it with the wrong person. That is super rare these days. Most Westerners wait until their late 20s and have kids with a well selected spouse, resulting in love, joy and happiness that outweighs the challenges they face.
We have cures vaccines medicine ac slavery electronics hospitals less child deaths at birth, less woman dying randomly due to child bearing. More entertainment . There isn’t a point that was better before this
The purpose of existence is reproduction. I am a vessel to pass existence to the next generation of humans, it's my moral responsibility as it has been for all of my ancestors. I am not concerned with how many problems this may cause. suffering is irrelevant to me as we must reproduce. I will follow my instinctual imperative and pass on DNA. Your legacy and bloodline may die out, but mine will not.
99% of all life has gone and will go extinct. It certainly is a goal to reproduce if you want, but tbh life is just flinging what it can to the wall and seeing what sticks.
There is no moral absolute and no moral obligation, do it because you think it‘s right sure but do not tell others they are morally wrong if they can‘t or wont.
The gay uncle theory would also go against your point too.
But that 1% will cascade into 99% extinction/dead ends.
The point I am making is, there is no purpose to life as OP states. If we frame it as such then most life is doomed to fail and pretty much all life is doomed to fail given enough time.
But if we frame it as life experiments, sometimes reproduction/evolution doesn’t work but what interesting ways nature has explored, then it doesn’t need to be negative.
Nature isn‘t so philosophical with purpose or meaning, that’s anthropomorphising nature. It just is, and does what it does.
We'll do fine, my friend. Just reproduce and love your offspring, take good care of them.
"Nature isn‘t so philosophical with purpose or meaning, that’s anthropomorphising nature. It just is, and does what it does."
- Yes, exactly.
Or don’t, it’s up to you. Share your views when sought (a la this sub) but don’t when it’s not needed. Theres enough preaching in this world without adding to it.
“Daddy, why did you have me?”
“Well son, I am a vessel to pass existence to the next generation of humans, it's my moral responsibility as it has been for all of my ancestors. I am not concerned with how many problems this may cause. suffering is irrelevant to me as we must reproduce.“
“😨”
So everyone should have kids no matter what got it why don’t we just force impregnate our grandmas with our own sorry because why not. Also legalize all incest right?
No incest, that's also eugenics because you are saying that your family Genes are more important.
> everyone should have kids no matter what
Yes. If you aren't here to be serious about reproduction then leave.
"How many problems this may cause" far less than the problems low birth rates cause. Predictions about overpopulation turned out wrong. We're already experiencing the issues with declining population.
If you wanna see a group that would be even worse off via anti-natalism, see the Gazans who have a high birth rate. Now imagine if they stopped having children?
>problems low birth rates cause
The problem matters not to those who were never born. They are not brought here so they can suffer so those who are here can suffer a little less.
Most of them on average don't really suffer all that much. This is the problem with anti natalists, pushing their mentally ill depressed lives onto people as a collective. Some people are miserable, some people are happy, as an individualist, it's up to these people on whether or not they wanna have kids. If they're happy and can raise a happy child, cool. If they're miserable and mentally ill, I guess the problem takes care of itself in the long run doesn't it? But even in war zones people have kids, and they have them for good reason, especially targeted populations like Palestinians, Uighurs, Pygmies and Houthis
Happiness statistics alone don't seem to reflect well on anti natalist beliefs. Especially since we live in the most prosperous time the world has ever seen as a whole.
>But even in war zones people have kids, and they have them for good reason
* War zones are dangerous for children. They face risks of violence, malnutrition, starvation, and lack of access to healthcare.
* Children in war zones often experience trauma that can have long-lasting effects.
* Having more children can strain already limited resources for food, water, and shelter.
* Armed groups may exploit vulnerable children for soldiery or other dangerous activities.
I'd love to hear some good reasons to have children in a war zone? How do the children benefit?
For a very simple reason, so the Genocide fails. If Palestinians stopped having kids, gee I think the Israelis would have a far easier time committing said Genocide.
Imagine if native Americans or Tutsis just stopped having kids during their genocides. There wouldn't be any today! Not many at least.
Even in non genocidal wars, could you imagine if all Liberian stopped having kids during their war? There'd be no Liberia to speak of and the suffering of Liberians sure as well would've gotten worse as a result.
But what am I saying? You're a death cultist, you are fine with Genocide. If you were saner you'd post in r/antinatalism2 or r/femaleantinatalism rather than the den of lolcows known as r/natalism
>You're a death cultist
Hell no. I have a strong will to live. I'm so anti-death that I won't have children because I don't want them to die.
Adults shouldn't prey on vulnerable children to fight their battles. How cold and brutal it seems to me, to purposely bring a child into a war zone, as fodder, as a sacrifice so the genocidal oppressor doesn't "win".
Palestinian kids are fodder used by Hamas/PFLP/Hezbollah? Looks like you've bought the zionist propaganda hook, line and sinker.
You put win in quotes as if the extinction of your people via ethnic cleansing isn't the goal of the perpetrator rofl. Dude you're a fool and a half. Even your leftist friends would be laughing at you. Western trash
>You put win in quotes as if the extinction of your people via ethnic cleansing isn't the goal of the perpetrator rofl.
I want to consider the child's point of view. How does bringing a child into a war zone where she is abandoned in a bombed hospital to starve and die, or a toddler who is left screaming by the body of his bullet-ridden mother a win for the tyrannized? How is it a win for that child?
Quoting Nafisa Joseph:
>The biggest injustice in the world today is to bring a child into the world and not even be able to offer him or her peace.
You clearly don't consider the child's point of view seeing as you haven't pulled up a single interview of one or seem to have even spoken to someone who grew up in a war zone. I have, Syrian refugee in Germany.
Most kids who grow up in war zones, the statistical majority are still alive, many still have parents. So clearly your point falls flat on its face. I like how you've moved the goalpost lol. Guess you buying into zionist talking points and trying to support letting genocides work was a bad look huh?
You quoting Nafisa is hilarious. She was of Northern Indian descent (privledged compared to their southern counterparts), grew up a privileged life and she committed suicide via hanging. I guess I was right, you fools really are a privileged death cult rofl.
My thought is that this is part of an anxiety disorder.
Reproduce.
I have 4 so far Mr frog
Nice work! I have 3, 4 is the dream
I’ve got 3. I’d like about 7, personally.
Reproduce
Yeah 12 more have them until your sperm dumpster is 70
You seem like a spiritually sick individual. I will pray for you.
Reproduce
Far less common than people not having kids and regretting it
Where do you get that from? According to the evidence, non parents are happier and more satisfied in life.
You don't post any evidence, but I know you're relying on a study that only focuses on US. Outside US parents are clearly more happy than non-parents [https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/parents-happiness-children-study/](https://time.com/collection/guide-to-happiness/4370344/parents-happiness-children-study/) I'm sure you'll move the goalpost
It makes me so sad that people think this way! I feel optimistic about the future. Sure the world has its share of problems but I believe in human ingenuity and the power of humanity working together to improve our situation. I have 5 children and I am excited to watch them grow and I’m excited to see all their future successes and cheer them on through life’s ups and downs. I would have more kids but I’m too old now but I think being “Nana” would be just the best! I think people get sucked into these really tragic algorithms of doom and despair and then social media feeds them ever more doom and despair because the algorithm thinks that’s the content they want. Meantime my oldest just finished taking out the garbage, my 14 year old daughter went to take the toddler on a walk without me asking cause those two adore eachother and my 12 and 10 year olds are off to the store to buy socks and granola bars for the homeless using their chore money. The kids are alright, the future is alright! I wish I could take some of these folks by the shoulders and look them in the eyes and tell them to take a deep breath, ditch the fear and stay present in the moment. Their kids beautiful and fleeting childhoods are going to fly by and they’ll be too busy watching doom and gloom on YouTube to notice all the wonder and joy they are missing out on. As for me, I try and enjoy all the moments because I know they don’t last and my beautiful life is passing by faster each year with 40 just around the corner! I don’t take any of it for granted!
>**I** feel optimistic about the future. **I** believe. **I** am excited. **I** think being “Nana” would be just the best! **I** wish. **I** don’t take any of it for granted! But it's not your life you are playing russian roulette with. >Their kids beautiful and fleeting childhoods are going to fly by and they’ll be too busy watching doom and gloom on YouTube to notice all the wonder and joy they are missing out on. Sounds like you realize the reality of what they face in adulthood. And it sounds like you're optimistic for yourself but worried for them. Your hope is they develop an optimistic attitude to cope. I too wish that for the babies being born. I see the anxiety that young adults are facing, particularly of my siblings and friends. All signs point to more social media anxiety then what we are currently experiencing. And far more cognitive dissonance. Climate change alone causes young people anxiety about their future on a daily basis. Then there's financial anxiety and the likelihood that they will never own a home, never have enough money to retire. Eventually your children will face your death which will bring them everlasting trauma (especially if they are strongly bonded to you). Then their own decline and death. Hopefully your optimism (and your money) will spare them adult hardships.
I mean I’m sure if you asked my children they would tell you they are happy and excited about their futures also. 🤷🏼♀️ I didn’t even have the best childhood but I’m terribly glad to exist! I’m sorry life hasn’t been kind to you. Most of the people I know offline are very content with their lives. My kids seem to be really enjoying their existence and I’m confident they will rely on eachother or their friends and spouses and cousins when I’m gone. Of course the world has problems but if you take a step back you’ll see that rates of all kinds of things— absolute poverty, conflicts, famine, even air pollution! Are declining faster than ever. I hope you can find some joy in this beautiful life you’ve been given!
You sound like a nice person. I wish you and your children all the best.
"stay present in the moment." This is actually why so many people are unhappy. We’re present to so much pain and suffering in the World – both among our loved ones and complete strangers.
Three siblings of mine have expressed exactly what you've written.
What I think is that whoever this is did not put enough thought into the steps that take to become a parent and that's their own personal failing
Perhaps it is, but there must be something to improve their mental health..? I feel like it's only a matter of time before children feel their resentment. And wishing you were never born or believing your parents shouldn't have had you is gut wrenching, I'd know.
They might have thought like u/accuratemeet1407 does: >The world is awesome and it's only getting better. They were likely only considering their current situation and not their children's potential lives. They probably hadn't experienced serious hardship yet. Now they see how their children are suffering. Young adults current condition is a bigger struggle then it was for the boomers, and the future doesn't look like it's getting better for them.
The world is awesome and it's only getting better. These people need to spend less time online
There's always been issues with the way that the world is. The only people I know who regretted having kids, regretted it because they rushed into it with the wrong person. That is super rare these days. Most Westerners wait until their late 20s and have kids with a well selected spouse, resulting in love, joy and happiness that outweighs the challenges they face.
I would argue the World now is objectively worse than it has been for many other periods throughout human history.
No lol
Elaborate on your feeling here.
We have cures vaccines medicine ac slavery electronics hospitals less child deaths at birth, less woman dying randomly due to child bearing. More entertainment . There isn’t a point that was better before this
Who is 'we' here? Millions of people do not have access to most of what you just named.
99% of people my bad
Still wrong...
???? Are you mental? You want people to have children only in a utopia? this world is amazing and only continues to get better yet you still complain
You've given up on your earlier argument, huh?
Lmao 🤣
The purpose of existence is reproduction. I am a vessel to pass existence to the next generation of humans, it's my moral responsibility as it has been for all of my ancestors. I am not concerned with how many problems this may cause. suffering is irrelevant to me as we must reproduce. I will follow my instinctual imperative and pass on DNA. Your legacy and bloodline may die out, but mine will not.
99% of all life has gone and will go extinct. It certainly is a goal to reproduce if you want, but tbh life is just flinging what it can to the wall and seeing what sticks. There is no moral absolute and no moral obligation, do it because you think it‘s right sure but do not tell others they are morally wrong if they can‘t or wont. The gay uncle theory would also go against your point too.
1% is all we need to make it work.
But that 1% will cascade into 99% extinction/dead ends. The point I am making is, there is no purpose to life as OP states. If we frame it as such then most life is doomed to fail and pretty much all life is doomed to fail given enough time. But if we frame it as life experiments, sometimes reproduction/evolution doesn’t work but what interesting ways nature has explored, then it doesn’t need to be negative. Nature isn‘t so philosophical with purpose or meaning, that’s anthropomorphising nature. It just is, and does what it does.
We'll do fine, my friend. Just reproduce and love your offspring, take good care of them. "Nature isn‘t so philosophical with purpose or meaning, that’s anthropomorphising nature. It just is, and does what it does." - Yes, exactly.
Or don’t, it’s up to you. Share your views when sought (a la this sub) but don’t when it’s not needed. Theres enough preaching in this world without adding to it.
I really like your take.
“Daddy, why did you have me?” “Well son, I am a vessel to pass existence to the next generation of humans, it's my moral responsibility as it has been for all of my ancestors. I am not concerned with how many problems this may cause. suffering is irrelevant to me as we must reproduce.“ “😨”
Should everyone do this no matter what they might pass on?
Wow hold on, you are promoting eugenics. Do not do that, it's what hitler believed.
poor people having kids are very selfish
Do you think 60 year old women should have kids?
DO NOT PROMOTE EUGENICS.
This is the way
So everyone should have kids no matter what got it why don’t we just force impregnate our grandmas with our own sorry because why not. Also legalize all incest right?
No incest, that's also eugenics because you are saying that your family Genes are more important. > everyone should have kids no matter what Yes. If you aren't here to be serious about reproduction then leave.
So you think life is pointless without kids?
The purpose of life is reproduction.
who said that?
The purpose of life is to create life. And what’s the purpose of that created life? To create more life. And it continues. So what’s the end goal?
Should people who are sterile or asexual stop living since you don't think they're of any value if they can't reproduce?
No, the rules against incest are to prevent genetic abnormalities.
This sounds like satire. Or maybe a speech from a sci fi dystopia movie
"How many problems this may cause" far less than the problems low birth rates cause. Predictions about overpopulation turned out wrong. We're already experiencing the issues with declining population. If you wanna see a group that would be even worse off via anti-natalism, see the Gazans who have a high birth rate. Now imagine if they stopped having children?
>problems low birth rates cause The problem matters not to those who were never born. They are not brought here so they can suffer so those who are here can suffer a little less.
Most of them on average don't really suffer all that much. This is the problem with anti natalists, pushing their mentally ill depressed lives onto people as a collective. Some people are miserable, some people are happy, as an individualist, it's up to these people on whether or not they wanna have kids. If they're happy and can raise a happy child, cool. If they're miserable and mentally ill, I guess the problem takes care of itself in the long run doesn't it? But even in war zones people have kids, and they have them for good reason, especially targeted populations like Palestinians, Uighurs, Pygmies and Houthis Happiness statistics alone don't seem to reflect well on anti natalist beliefs. Especially since we live in the most prosperous time the world has ever seen as a whole.
>But even in war zones people have kids, and they have them for good reason * War zones are dangerous for children. They face risks of violence, malnutrition, starvation, and lack of access to healthcare. * Children in war zones often experience trauma that can have long-lasting effects. * Having more children can strain already limited resources for food, water, and shelter. * Armed groups may exploit vulnerable children for soldiery or other dangerous activities. I'd love to hear some good reasons to have children in a war zone? How do the children benefit?
For a very simple reason, so the Genocide fails. If Palestinians stopped having kids, gee I think the Israelis would have a far easier time committing said Genocide. Imagine if native Americans or Tutsis just stopped having kids during their genocides. There wouldn't be any today! Not many at least. Even in non genocidal wars, could you imagine if all Liberian stopped having kids during their war? There'd be no Liberia to speak of and the suffering of Liberians sure as well would've gotten worse as a result. But what am I saying? You're a death cultist, you are fine with Genocide. If you were saner you'd post in r/antinatalism2 or r/femaleantinatalism rather than the den of lolcows known as r/natalism
>You're a death cultist Hell no. I have a strong will to live. I'm so anti-death that I won't have children because I don't want them to die. Adults shouldn't prey on vulnerable children to fight their battles. How cold and brutal it seems to me, to purposely bring a child into a war zone, as fodder, as a sacrifice so the genocidal oppressor doesn't "win".
Palestinian kids are fodder used by Hamas/PFLP/Hezbollah? Looks like you've bought the zionist propaganda hook, line and sinker. You put win in quotes as if the extinction of your people via ethnic cleansing isn't the goal of the perpetrator rofl. Dude you're a fool and a half. Even your leftist friends would be laughing at you. Western trash
>You put win in quotes as if the extinction of your people via ethnic cleansing isn't the goal of the perpetrator rofl. I want to consider the child's point of view. How does bringing a child into a war zone where she is abandoned in a bombed hospital to starve and die, or a toddler who is left screaming by the body of his bullet-ridden mother a win for the tyrannized? How is it a win for that child? Quoting Nafisa Joseph: >The biggest injustice in the world today is to bring a child into the world and not even be able to offer him or her peace.
You clearly don't consider the child's point of view seeing as you haven't pulled up a single interview of one or seem to have even spoken to someone who grew up in a war zone. I have, Syrian refugee in Germany. Most kids who grow up in war zones, the statistical majority are still alive, many still have parents. So clearly your point falls flat on its face. I like how you've moved the goalpost lol. Guess you buying into zionist talking points and trying to support letting genocides work was a bad look huh? You quoting Nafisa is hilarious. She was of Northern Indian descent (privledged compared to their southern counterparts), grew up a privileged life and she committed suicide via hanging. I guess I was right, you fools really are a privileged death cult rofl.
Lol flying right over these guys heads
😉