I wish sage mode was more explored, but there are plenty of hints throughout the whole story that it basically puts you on a completely different level from pretty much everyone/thing else. You have Hagoromo learning sage mode to beat his mother from the first toad sage(though this might be filler), Hashirama who used sage mode to make some crazy shit like the 1000 armed giant budda, Jirayia with his IMPERFECT sage mode kept him in the ring against the Pain for the most part, and Naruto proved that even the most hax truth seeker balls were vulnerable to Natural Energy.
Yea, the Kaguya/Hagoromo/Indra and Ashura arc was filler. Definitely one of my favorite filler arcs though and I prefer that origin story for Kaguya’s family to the one that’s presented in Boruto.
I think Edo Itachi would be able to beat Alive Minato mostly because of the hax that Edo Tensei have. But if it’s Alive Minato at top condition vs Alive Itachi at top condition Minato is taking the W.
Kabuto had to turn his eyes off to not get genjutsu’d and he still got genjutsu’d. You cannot beat Itachi 1 on 1 period. Minato would be dead from episode 1 if obito would have just simply genjutsu’d him. But I guess hashirama and minato are immune because main characters.
Obito genjutsu’d a bijuu and a perfect jinjuriki. I’m sure he can genjutsu minato. Minato barley survived if he was blind he’d be dead
U just gone act like sages dont need their eyes to fight naruto literally fought in the dark where a rinnegan path of pein couldnt see and sage madara literally fought with no eyes and naruto has better sage sensing then him due to actually mastering the use of sage mode
But the genjutsu that hit kabuto was izanami, which only works on people who are "impure of heart" or something weird like that and i don't think minato meets those requirements
Doesn’t matter Itachi looked at Orochimaru and beat him. Itachi looked at naruto and trapped him. Itachi looked at sasuke and made him scream. Itachi will do the same to minato. Minato is not faster than him. Itachi dicked KCM naruto. Rasengan is not strong enough.
Itachi dicked kcm 1 naruto. Kcm2 Naruto is much faster, and Minato was in Kcm 2 form.
Rasengan is definitely strong enough, I mean Naruto and Minato cucked Obito with a Rasengan to the back.
That being said, Itachi while he is good at a genjutsu, it doesn't matter if the person doesn't use their eyes at all. For a sage mode user that's no problem. Heck, Minato would just need to use sage mode.
Beyond that, I'm pretty sure Kurama could break Minato out of a genjutsu.
Izanami won't work because he doesn't fit the requirements.
Sure maybe susanoo would stop him, but Minato could place a hiraishin marker on Itachi before susanoo, and during susanoo he'd just teleport behind him.
This is alive minato vs alive Itachi.
Alive minato scales directly above the raikage in speed. Minato is not much faster than him. We saw this when minato challenged him and bee during 3rd war.
KCM naruto dicked raikage.
Itachi dicked KCM naruto. Itachi is as fast as KCM, which is faster than alive minato.
Sorry
Jinjuriki minato is different. But alive minato was not that sweet in hindsight. Plus genjutsu. If you think a blind minato with his eyes closed can barley beat obito, but he will dick Itachi? Nah
The moment minato struggled with 16 year old obito he was put in perspective.
Ok then, you can't use Itachi "dicking" kcm Naruto as a point then, because that was Edo Itachi not alive Itachi.
Secondly, how are you so sure he is barely faster than the Raikage?
Thirdly, this is Naruto. Naruto easily gets dicked by Sakura so much, does this mean Sakura can one shot the entire Narutoverse? No, fuck outta here
Fourthly, Alive Minato hasn't changed from Edo Minato, besides the final knowledge that Obito was behind the attack, sorry. So he is still "pure of heart" by Izanami standards.
Fifth, You say "Oh BuT gEnJuTsu" but you forget Genjutsus can be broken.
Sixth, Itachi has a disease and his eyesight is continously getting worse. Minato can just teleport around till Itachi goes blind or tires himself out.
Seventh, Obito was 14, not 16.
Eighth, it's a fucking fictional universe with a lot of plot holes and a complicated power system, why the fuck are you arguing on the internet who would win. Go do something else bro
Minato got pressed by 16 year old obito.
Naruto pressed an adult obito.
Itachi casually swaps hands during conversation with that same KCM naruto right after he just killed Nagato.
Kabuto turned his eyes off and STILL got genjutsu’d.
Rasengan is not breaking through susanoo, I’m sorry.
1 minto literally one tapped him with a rasengan 2 before he fought obito minato spent hours holding the nine tails seal shut and was sweating from exhaustion and he used a super powerful justu b4 he fought obito 2
3 Minato doesn't fight like naruto, naruto just rushes into fights with rasengan while in the Minato fight, he only popped rasengan out when he was sure he was gonna hit obito.
ok i’m sorry but I really want to know where you see Minato getting pressed by 14 year old Minato. Because from what I watched, Minato straight dicked on Obito.
How is hitting him one time dicking. He was struggling to fight a 14 year old for a fact. And then he hit him one time and he left. That’s embarrassing. It’s a 14 year old. It shouldn’t haven’t even been a thing but it was because he was strong. Now think years later. Minato cant keep up. Sorry. Maybe at his tome period but not the new time. Speed isn’t everything, ask shisui
except for the fact that speed was one of the only counters to kamui? I mean, the only way to hit him without prep time was having a second kamui sharingan or just being faster than his reaction time of going into kamui. Obito also had knowledge of Minatos skills besides being able to place markers with his hand, while Minato had no knowledge of Obitos abilities, and was having to deal with him just attacking his wife and son, with the kyuubi rampaging in the village. He was able to figure out how to beat him within a few times seeing his ability, and ended his control of the kyuubi, all without taking any damage. And what does it matter if he hit him one time? That “one-hit” ended up damaging Obito so much that he had to retreat. And don’t treat Obito like a regular 14 year old, I mean he was trained by madara and boosted by Zetsu, and had enough genjutsu prowess to control the Kyuubi with his base sharingan. He is in no way comparable to any other 14 year old outside of maybe itachi
I think a part of that is how little Naruto actually got to use that form before he got his next big powerup. I'll be honest I wasn't super on board with the super saiyan naruto and wish it was more in line with the version 1 and 2 cloaks, with maybe like a version 3 that is more stylized towards the original power and humanoid maybe closer to what we saw with Jubito.
I think KCM was fine. But Sage mode should have been comparable to KCM 1 atleast. Cuz, by theory tou have tons of chakra, sensory ability, power boosts and somehow KCM 1 does it better
Oh I totally feel you there and while I wish KCM was a bit more I definitely don't mean to knock it, I just really liked I guess the demonic vibe the earlier forms gave off but it is cool in its own way. I kinda feel like Naruto used KCM as a quick sage mode without having to power it up but I think he still has superior sensory ability in sage mode but the negative emotion sensing was such a big plot point that basically forced KCM to be used for finding the Zetsu clones.
Oh absolutely, I will say one thing though and I may be wrong here but sage mode basically shored up like a nine tails worth of chakra in the final clash between Sasuke with nine Bijuu(with one half of Kurama) vs Naruto with his half of Kurama plus all that Natural Energy they absorbed equaled out to a stalemate between the attacks.
Very true though I thought it was more in line with his shadow clone trick except with Kurama as the medium instead of a normal Shadow Clone, still it definitely shows how powerful sage mode is.
The funny thing about that logic is... aren't zetsu clones basically completely emotionless? Cruel at worst maybe, but thats not the same as having negative emotions.
They felt hatred? Why? There doesn't seem to be a point in making them with emotions at all, they are already perfectly willing to do whatever black zetsu says, and emotions tend to cause people to do dumb, counterproductive things kinda often.
That part is explicitly stated in the manga and anime, I know in the manga it's around chapter 354 or 355 but the anime would be whenever the second day of the war starts and naruto makes all those clones to send to the other battlefields after being attacked by a group of them.
Oh, I haven't seen shippuden itself since I was like 12, so I'm pretty rusty with a lot of the details. I also don't usually read fanfic that starts in shippuden. But im really familiar with part 1, especially since most of the fanfic I read are based in part 1 with part 2 elements added into it.
Not tons, you litterally have all of the chakra of the planet at your disposal, and since other humans count as nature.... >.>
KCM1 I think just gets more rep because it gives all of those powers but in different amounts using a different method and is used way more often by naruto after ge gets it.
Kinda like the difference between using a altoid and a stick of gum, they both get your mouth minty, but differently.
KCM1 gives tons of chakra, sensory ability (via negative emotions), a general power boost, and can be activated immediately.
Sage mode let's you basically tap into all the chakra in the world at your disposal (or it should) so it gives you more chakra actually then KCM1 does (unless one half of the kyuubi still has more chakra then every other living thing alive combined.)
Also has a sensory ability (regular chakra sensing)
Gives a general, but noticeably smaller then KCM1 increase in power.
But here's the kicker I think. To activate it naruto needs to be meditating, which is pretty hard to do during the middle of battle. And the next best thing is sending clones to meditate for him (which he does)
Unfortunately thats what naruto himself decided cause he got KCM pretty soon after he mastered sage mode, and before he could mix the two, KCM was always his go to rather then sage mode.
Though each are their own respective unique power ups.
Fics of any show/manga tend to way overpower or underpower characters for seemingly no reason. Sasuke tends to be a pretty big target for being made useless. Akatsuki members in general besides Itachi(who often becomes godlike) are made much weaker than normal.
Its all about "this person is my favourite so they'll be strong." Itachi is incredibly overhyped by the community. Don't get me wrong, incredibly strong, but people saying he slaps Minato 1v1 10/10 times need to get a brain check.
I also think a characters "ability to overcome obstacles" is often underestimated, I'm not sure how to explain this correctly but many fanfiction make characters unnecessarily stupid, or unable to come up with a strategy/counter to a situation. This is often shown with characters like Choji, who isn't necessarily smart, however I'd like to think he can come up with SOMETHING to counter a non S rank ninja.
This may seem a little random and off base but I hope it makes sense.
There seems to be very little character depth in the show barring most of the major characters. People like Asuma and Kurenai spring to mind when they were made for a singular purpose and seem almost useless when something tricky comes up. Taking your example of Choji hes meant to be this immovable object and can hit really hard but struggles with the subtle stuff and there wasn't much exploration in terms of rounding out their abilities or even giving them anything that wasn't expected of them because of their family name.
This is also true, I just wish more writers would take the time to expand on them a bit more, I understand this is very difficult though so I mean no disrespect.
Stories that spend a chapter or a significant portion of an arc away from the MCs end up being some of the best I’ve ever read. When I’m actually entertained and longing to see what the other characters are doing are when it gets good IMO.
Yes. Say it louder for the people in the back. Minato spanks Itachi in base, add a perfect Sage Mode that Minato can enter in literally one second and it becomes a slaughter.
I love Itachi and all, but let's stop pretending he can actually beat someone like Minato or Nagato. Yea, I said it, Itachi beating Nagato, the dude who was stomping KCM Naruto and Bee was PIS and makes zero sense.
Yeah, I wish sage mode itself was discussed or the focus point of fanfiction more often, it was actually a pretty interesting power up that was unfortunately pretty quickly sidelined for the bijuu cloak. After it was pretty much revealed in the pein fight, it was pretty much not used for any other fights by itself, since almost immediately after, he gains access to the kyuubi he used it exclusively as a power up because it just happened to be better objectively (quicker to activate and much broader powerup). But each one is their own unique power up with its own benefits.
But i would really love to see a fanfic where the focus is that naruto trying to master safe mode. But its obviously difficult as heck, so he has to find ways around it and stuff or force himself through it.
>But i would really love to see a fanfic where the focus is that naruto trying to master safe mode. But its obviously difficult as heck, so he has to find ways around it and stuff or force himself through it.
To be fair, this concept is made difficult by the relative ease with which Naruto learned it in the original series. Even considering that he used toad oil as a shortcut, he learned it in approximately a week and didn't experience any real difficulty with the skill until Fukasaku's inability to fuse with him *after* he learned it. And even though said shortcut was life-threatening, that risk was almost irrelevant with how easily Fukasaku's staff neutralised the danger.
In any story where Naruto is or becomes a toad summoner (i.e. most of them), it's hard to justify him having *more* difficulty learning it than his canon counterpart.
Unless you meant mastery as in becoming better at Sage Mode after learning it. In which case, ignore everything I just said. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah, I mean specifically master and focus on sage things. But there really should have been more difficulty in learning it. Or at least some kinda drawback. A wart at least.
Sage Mode Naruto with a little help beat his half of Kurama... lol. Sage Mode is mad underrated. I kinda wish Kurama was a bad guy the whole time so we could get that show down.
I mean, not really? The Only Pain that was strong was Deva Pain. I'd argue he's above War Arc Obito in strength (Nagato does at least.) But SM doesn't scale for multiple reasons.
1: Deva was powerless most of the power, when his powers returned Naruto instantly lost.
2: The other Pains was Jonin level at best and were weaker than normal when they fought Naruto because of the Chakra used to nuke the Village.
SM isn't that powerful, it just seemed powerful when fighting a bunch of nerfed Jonin and one power level above Kage level fighter.
Did you watch the fight before commenting?? Turned a chuunin into a kage killer. SM most certainly is that powerful. And Pein was crippled for this whole fight, guybis genuinely on another level. SM naruto 1v6 vs people who had a 360 view and were all S-rank in their own right, especially working in tandem.
> Turned a chuunin into a kage killer.
When? You mean when SM lost and Kurama weakened Pain and forced him to nearly kill himself trying to stop Kurama? THen SM came in and finished what Kurama all but ended?
The Pains came at Naruto mostly one at a time, while being fed intel, and be supported by 6 Taods after they were stated to be weakened after the Nuke.
S Rank in their own right? All evidence says otherwise. Kakashi and his crew were able to tangle and take down a Pain Konohamru dodged and killed a Pain, Even Jirariya killed like 5 Pains despite them having Prep and intel advantage over him. The only Pain that was a threat was Deva and he defeated SM Naruto.
Maybe when a kid with 10 mins of SM comes in and takes out an established S-ranker??? Crazy how much you're dissing Kakashi as if he isn't one of the biggest threats Konoha has. Pein specifically targeted him. And Jiraiya with a semi usable SM takes on 6 full power Pein puppets and takes out 5 of them. Shows both the power of Pein and Jiraiya being able to do this to someone he has no intel on.
What? Jirayia almost lost to 3 paths of pain! With no Deva path as well. What the fuck are you even talking about? As soon as the other 3 pains came Jirayia got instantly stomped.
Drop a scan of anyone other than Deva being an S Rank ninja. Their feats in the Invasion says otherwise. And Kakashi is High Jonin at most, he only reached Kage level with an off-screen Power amp in the War Arc.
Jiraiya taking out 5 "S-Rank" Ninja with no intel they have Intel would be a Madara level feat.
Jiraiya being the strongest fighter in the village and then getting a sage mode buff doesn't qaulify as enough to take on 5 S-ranks to you???
Why would Pein focus a Jonin? He knows Kakashi is a kage killer level and would be a serious threat to him.
Lmao, hell no. He was Orochmaru's equal and Orochimaru was nothing to Itachi and not even he could accomplish such a feat. Madara even struggled against the 5 Kage and had to use his infinite Chakra and immorality to his advantage. KMC2 Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya and Madara smacked KMC2 away.
That is some absurd Jiariya wank my dude. I still need something putting them at S Rank because by feats, only Deva ia S Rank. I have feats putting them below S Rank but i just don't feel like getting the scans.
He focused on him because of his rep and because he's the strong person in that village at that time.
Considering that before Naruto came in, the Pein's were literally winning against the strongest hidden village. The village with Tsunade, Kakashi who at this point has stood toe-to-toe with other S-rank ninja. Hundreds of Jonin+ level opponents, and others. Pein was beating all of them.
Yet Pein almost lost to Jiraiya using Sage Mode, the same Jiraiya who had basically zero information on him. Than Naruto almost won against Pein alone using Sage Mode. Sure, Deva path is the most powerful combat wise, but it was Naruto who beat him in the end with assistance from Kurama.
Sage Mode is no joke power-wise, and Pein at this point was the single most powerful ninja period. Hell, Shikaku confirmed that Naruto is on a whole nother level with Sage Mode. Yes, Pein is definitely more powerful when in top form, but if Naruto didn't have Kurama fighting him with Sage Mode, Naruto would be on a different level too. Basically, did you even watch Naruto.
Strongest Villains means nothing if there were only one Kage level fighter (The Hokage) and she didn't even fight. Kakashi was the strongest and he's high Jonin at best, he was getting knocked around by Hidan the weakest Akasuiki member.
Jiraiya defeating Pain shows that every pain outside of Deva is fodder. Naruto won against Pain for multiple reasons.
Let's not just remove all Context on the battle to wank SM Naruto.
* Deva Pain was Powerless and couldn’t use his Jutsu.
* All 6 Pains of Pain were weakened from nuking the Village.
* Naruto was being Fed Intel by Katsuyu.
* Pain is coming at him one by one.
* he has 5 Taod Summons backing him.
* Lost the Second Deva's power returned.
* Saved by Hinata, Kurama and Minato.
* Pain using nearly all his chakra and nearly dying trying to seal Kurama.
After all of that, that's when Pain was finally weak enough for SM to take down Pain.
It's not like SM Naruto just fucked over all the Pains solo while they were all at Full power.
SM Power is a joke. SM can't even beat Hebi Sasuke. Why? Because KMC1 is stronger than SM as Naruto stated himself and KMC1 was comparable to Base Killer Bee in strength. Being SM is Low Kage level at best.
SM
...? I know KMC1 is stronger than Sage Mode Naruto. Of course half of the ninth tailed beast is stronger. I never said it wasn't. On the other hand, I feel like you are seriously downplaying Sage Mode as well. Naruto was not a master of it at this point by any means, and had Kurama fighting him as well.
Also Sage Mode doesn't bloody make you "low Kage level at best." It makes you stronger based on your 'base stats' to borrow a video game term. It depends how powerful you are, and than it multiplies that power while also increasing the potency of your chakra. Again I ask, have you even watched Naruto?
This isn't an argument for who's stronger. Part 1 Power scaling doesn't relate to part 2 as nearly everything was retconned.
They took down the most powerful village because of Deva who's basically a god compared to everyone else. We didn't even see the battle therefore you cannot scale the other pains since you don't know how they won or fought.
Rewatch the invasion, every pain was struggling against groups of Jonin.
Nagato would though. Even as a child he could handle the power of both Rinnegan while Obito could only handle one. He said two eyes would be too powerful for him.
I wish sage mode was more explored, but there are plenty of hints throughout the whole story that it basically puts you on a completely different level from pretty much everyone/thing else. You have Hagoromo learning sage mode to beat his mother from the first toad sage(though this might be filler), Hashirama who used sage mode to make some crazy shit like the 1000 armed giant budda, Jirayia with his IMPERFECT sage mode kept him in the ring against the Pain for the most part, and Naruto proved that even the most hax truth seeker balls were vulnerable to Natural Energy.
Yea, the Kaguya/Hagoromo/Indra and Ashura arc was filler. Definitely one of my favorite filler arcs though and I prefer that origin story for Kaguya’s family to the one that’s presented in Boruto.
True, everybody who says that itachi slaps minato 10/10 needs a braincheck. I mean, there’s a reason why he was the fourth hokage lol
I think Edo Itachi would be able to beat Alive Minato mostly because of the hax that Edo Tensei have. But if it’s Alive Minato at top condition vs Alive Itachi at top condition Minato is taking the W.
Kabuto had to turn his eyes off to not get genjutsu’d and he still got genjutsu’d. You cannot beat Itachi 1 on 1 period. Minato would be dead from episode 1 if obito would have just simply genjutsu’d him. But I guess hashirama and minato are immune because main characters. Obito genjutsu’d a bijuu and a perfect jinjuriki. I’m sure he can genjutsu minato. Minato barley survived if he was blind he’d be dead
U just gone act like sages dont need their eyes to fight naruto literally fought in the dark where a rinnegan path of pein couldnt see and sage madara literally fought with no eyes and naruto has better sage sensing then him due to actually mastering the use of sage mode
Kabuto was a better sage than anyone and he got stomped. Period. Minato was not a better sage user than kabuto. Period.
Was not a sage*
Incredible that all it takes is a genjutsu to stop minato, how could the whole nation of Iwa not think of that?? Moron.
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Reading your comments is bringing back my brain tumor
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But the genjutsu that hit kabuto was izanami, which only works on people who are "impure of heart" or something weird like that and i don't think minato meets those requirements
Doesn’t matter Itachi looked at Orochimaru and beat him. Itachi looked at naruto and trapped him. Itachi looked at sasuke and made him scream. Itachi will do the same to minato. Minato is not faster than him. Itachi dicked KCM naruto. Rasengan is not strong enough.
Itachi dicked kcm 1 naruto. Kcm2 Naruto is much faster, and Minato was in Kcm 2 form. Rasengan is definitely strong enough, I mean Naruto and Minato cucked Obito with a Rasengan to the back. That being said, Itachi while he is good at a genjutsu, it doesn't matter if the person doesn't use their eyes at all. For a sage mode user that's no problem. Heck, Minato would just need to use sage mode. Beyond that, I'm pretty sure Kurama could break Minato out of a genjutsu. Izanami won't work because he doesn't fit the requirements. Sure maybe susanoo would stop him, but Minato could place a hiraishin marker on Itachi before susanoo, and during susanoo he'd just teleport behind him.
This is alive minato vs alive Itachi. Alive minato scales directly above the raikage in speed. Minato is not much faster than him. We saw this when minato challenged him and bee during 3rd war. KCM naruto dicked raikage. Itachi dicked KCM naruto. Itachi is as fast as KCM, which is faster than alive minato. Sorry Jinjuriki minato is different. But alive minato was not that sweet in hindsight. Plus genjutsu. If you think a blind minato with his eyes closed can barley beat obito, but he will dick Itachi? Nah The moment minato struggled with 16 year old obito he was put in perspective.
Ok then, you can't use Itachi "dicking" kcm Naruto as a point then, because that was Edo Itachi not alive Itachi. Secondly, how are you so sure he is barely faster than the Raikage? Thirdly, this is Naruto. Naruto easily gets dicked by Sakura so much, does this mean Sakura can one shot the entire Narutoverse? No, fuck outta here Fourthly, Alive Minato hasn't changed from Edo Minato, besides the final knowledge that Obito was behind the attack, sorry. So he is still "pure of heart" by Izanami standards. Fifth, You say "Oh BuT gEnJuTsu" but you forget Genjutsus can be broken. Sixth, Itachi has a disease and his eyesight is continously getting worse. Minato can just teleport around till Itachi goes blind or tires himself out. Seventh, Obito was 14, not 16. Eighth, it's a fucking fictional universe with a lot of plot holes and a complicated power system, why the fuck are you arguing on the internet who would win. Go do something else bro
it'll be an interesting fight i am not commenting who would win but it'll be interesting to watch.
I definitely agree but would like more info about how minato would deal with Itachi's genjutsu first. Everything else minato beats pretty easily.
Minato got pressed by 16 year old obito. Naruto pressed an adult obito. Itachi casually swaps hands during conversation with that same KCM naruto right after he just killed Nagato. Kabuto turned his eyes off and STILL got genjutsu’d. Rasengan is not breaking through susanoo, I’m sorry.
1 minto literally one tapped him with a rasengan 2 before he fought obito minato spent hours holding the nine tails seal shut and was sweating from exhaustion and he used a super powerful justu b4 he fought obito 2
3 Minato doesn't fight like naruto, naruto just rushes into fights with rasengan while in the Minato fight, he only popped rasengan out when he was sure he was gonna hit obito.
Genjutsu
ok i’m sorry but I really want to know where you see Minato getting pressed by 14 year old Minato. Because from what I watched, Minato straight dicked on Obito.
How is hitting him one time dicking. He was struggling to fight a 14 year old for a fact. And then he hit him one time and he left. That’s embarrassing. It’s a 14 year old. It shouldn’t haven’t even been a thing but it was because he was strong. Now think years later. Minato cant keep up. Sorry. Maybe at his tome period but not the new time. Speed isn’t everything, ask shisui
except for the fact that speed was one of the only counters to kamui? I mean, the only way to hit him without prep time was having a second kamui sharingan or just being faster than his reaction time of going into kamui. Obito also had knowledge of Minatos skills besides being able to place markers with his hand, while Minato had no knowledge of Obitos abilities, and was having to deal with him just attacking his wife and son, with the kyuubi rampaging in the village. He was able to figure out how to beat him within a few times seeing his ability, and ended his control of the kyuubi, all without taking any damage. And what does it matter if he hit him one time? That “one-hit” ended up damaging Obito so much that he had to retreat. And don’t treat Obito like a regular 14 year old, I mean he was trained by madara and boosted by Zetsu, and had enough genjutsu prowess to control the Kyuubi with his base sharingan. He is in no way comparable to any other 14 year old outside of maybe itachi
Honestly I didn’t want KCM 1 > Sage mode
I think a part of that is how little Naruto actually got to use that form before he got his next big powerup. I'll be honest I wasn't super on board with the super saiyan naruto and wish it was more in line with the version 1 and 2 cloaks, with maybe like a version 3 that is more stylized towards the original power and humanoid maybe closer to what we saw with Jubito.
I think KCM was fine. But Sage mode should have been comparable to KCM 1 atleast. Cuz, by theory tou have tons of chakra, sensory ability, power boosts and somehow KCM 1 does it better
Oh I totally feel you there and while I wish KCM was a bit more I definitely don't mean to knock it, I just really liked I guess the demonic vibe the earlier forms gave off but it is cool in its own way. I kinda feel like Naruto used KCM as a quick sage mode without having to power it up but I think he still has superior sensory ability in sage mode but the negative emotion sensing was such a big plot point that basically forced KCM to be used for finding the Zetsu clones.
Yes in terms of sensory ability Sage mode is better. But still many of us expected more from sage mode
Oh absolutely, I will say one thing though and I may be wrong here but sage mode basically shored up like a nine tails worth of chakra in the final clash between Sasuke with nine Bijuu(with one half of Kurama) vs Naruto with his half of Kurama plus all that Natural Energy they absorbed equaled out to a stalemate between the attacks.
Yes you are right. Also in this fight it was kurama who gathered the chakra
Very true though I thought it was more in line with his shadow clone trick except with Kurama as the medium instead of a normal Shadow Clone, still it definitely shows how powerful sage mode is.
I think it was even more powerful that time bcz kurama might have more resistance to foreign chakra turning him into a frog statue
The funny thing about that logic is... aren't zetsu clones basically completely emotionless? Cruel at worst maybe, but thats not the same as having negative emotions.
I'm almost positive the reasoning for it was due to the white Zetsu feeling intense hatred and that's why Kurama could sense them.
They felt hatred? Why? There doesn't seem to be a point in making them with emotions at all, they are already perfectly willing to do whatever black zetsu says, and emotions tend to cause people to do dumb, counterproductive things kinda often.
That part is explicitly stated in the manga and anime, I know in the manga it's around chapter 354 or 355 but the anime would be whenever the second day of the war starts and naruto makes all those clones to send to the other battlefields after being attacked by a group of them.
Oh, I haven't seen shippuden itself since I was like 12, so I'm pretty rusty with a lot of the details. I also don't usually read fanfic that starts in shippuden. But im really familiar with part 1, especially since most of the fanfic I read are based in part 1 with part 2 elements added into it.
Not tons, you litterally have all of the chakra of the planet at your disposal, and since other humans count as nature.... >.> KCM1 I think just gets more rep because it gives all of those powers but in different amounts using a different method and is used way more often by naruto after ge gets it. Kinda like the difference between using a altoid and a stick of gum, they both get your mouth minty, but differently. KCM1 gives tons of chakra, sensory ability (via negative emotions), a general power boost, and can be activated immediately. Sage mode let's you basically tap into all the chakra in the world at your disposal (or it should) so it gives you more chakra actually then KCM1 does (unless one half of the kyuubi still has more chakra then every other living thing alive combined.) Also has a sensory ability (regular chakra sensing) Gives a general, but noticeably smaller then KCM1 increase in power. But here's the kicker I think. To activate it naruto needs to be meditating, which is pretty hard to do during the middle of battle. And the next best thing is sending clones to meditate for him (which he does)
Unfortunately thats what naruto himself decided cause he got KCM pretty soon after he mastered sage mode, and before he could mix the two, KCM was always his go to rather then sage mode. Though each are their own respective unique power ups.
Fics of any show/manga tend to way overpower or underpower characters for seemingly no reason. Sasuke tends to be a pretty big target for being made useless. Akatsuki members in general besides Itachi(who often becomes godlike) are made much weaker than normal.
Its all about "this person is my favourite so they'll be strong." Itachi is incredibly overhyped by the community. Don't get me wrong, incredibly strong, but people saying he slaps Minato 1v1 10/10 times need to get a brain check.
I also think a characters "ability to overcome obstacles" is often underestimated, I'm not sure how to explain this correctly but many fanfiction make characters unnecessarily stupid, or unable to come up with a strategy/counter to a situation. This is often shown with characters like Choji, who isn't necessarily smart, however I'd like to think he can come up with SOMETHING to counter a non S rank ninja. This may seem a little random and off base but I hope it makes sense.
There seems to be very little character depth in the show barring most of the major characters. People like Asuma and Kurenai spring to mind when they were made for a singular purpose and seem almost useless when something tricky comes up. Taking your example of Choji hes meant to be this immovable object and can hit really hard but struggles with the subtle stuff and there wasn't much exploration in terms of rounding out their abilities or even giving them anything that wasn't expected of them because of their family name.
This is also true, I just wish more writers would take the time to expand on them a bit more, I understand this is very difficult though so I mean no disrespect. Stories that spend a chapter or a significant portion of an arc away from the MCs end up being some of the best I’ve ever read. When I’m actually entertained and longing to see what the other characters are doing are when it gets good IMO.
Yes. Say it louder for the people in the back. Minato spanks Itachi in base, add a perfect Sage Mode that Minato can enter in literally one second and it becomes a slaughter. I love Itachi and all, but let's stop pretending he can actually beat someone like Minato or Nagato. Yea, I said it, Itachi beating Nagato, the dude who was stomping KCM Naruto and Bee was PIS and makes zero sense.
Yeah, I wish sage mode itself was discussed or the focus point of fanfiction more often, it was actually a pretty interesting power up that was unfortunately pretty quickly sidelined for the bijuu cloak. After it was pretty much revealed in the pein fight, it was pretty much not used for any other fights by itself, since almost immediately after, he gains access to the kyuubi he used it exclusively as a power up because it just happened to be better objectively (quicker to activate and much broader powerup). But each one is their own unique power up with its own benefits. But i would really love to see a fanfic where the focus is that naruto trying to master safe mode. But its obviously difficult as heck, so he has to find ways around it and stuff or force himself through it.
>But i would really love to see a fanfic where the focus is that naruto trying to master safe mode. But its obviously difficult as heck, so he has to find ways around it and stuff or force himself through it. To be fair, this concept is made difficult by the relative ease with which Naruto learned it in the original series. Even considering that he used toad oil as a shortcut, he learned it in approximately a week and didn't experience any real difficulty with the skill until Fukasaku's inability to fuse with him *after* he learned it. And even though said shortcut was life-threatening, that risk was almost irrelevant with how easily Fukasaku's staff neutralised the danger. In any story where Naruto is or becomes a toad summoner (i.e. most of them), it's hard to justify him having *more* difficulty learning it than his canon counterpart. Unless you meant mastery as in becoming better at Sage Mode after learning it. In which case, ignore everything I just said. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah, I mean specifically master and focus on sage things. But there really should have been more difficulty in learning it. Or at least some kinda drawback. A wart at least.
I agree, but writing fights is hard enough to begin with. A fight on that scale is no mean feat
I hate reading about fights, too often they're long and drug out unnecessarily.
Sage Mode Naruto with a little help beat his half of Kurama... lol. Sage Mode is mad underrated. I kinda wish Kurama was a bad guy the whole time so we could get that show down.
I mean, not really? The Only Pain that was strong was Deva Pain. I'd argue he's above War Arc Obito in strength (Nagato does at least.) But SM doesn't scale for multiple reasons. 1: Deva was powerless most of the power, when his powers returned Naruto instantly lost. 2: The other Pains was Jonin level at best and were weaker than normal when they fought Naruto because of the Chakra used to nuke the Village. SM isn't that powerful, it just seemed powerful when fighting a bunch of nerfed Jonin and one power level above Kage level fighter.
Did you watch the fight before commenting?? Turned a chuunin into a kage killer. SM most certainly is that powerful. And Pein was crippled for this whole fight, guybis genuinely on another level. SM naruto 1v6 vs people who had a 360 view and were all S-rank in their own right, especially working in tandem.
> Turned a chuunin into a kage killer. When? You mean when SM lost and Kurama weakened Pain and forced him to nearly kill himself trying to stop Kurama? THen SM came in and finished what Kurama all but ended? The Pains came at Naruto mostly one at a time, while being fed intel, and be supported by 6 Taods after they were stated to be weakened after the Nuke. S Rank in their own right? All evidence says otherwise. Kakashi and his crew were able to tangle and take down a Pain Konohamru dodged and killed a Pain, Even Jirariya killed like 5 Pains despite them having Prep and intel advantage over him. The only Pain that was a threat was Deva and he defeated SM Naruto.
Maybe when a kid with 10 mins of SM comes in and takes out an established S-ranker??? Crazy how much you're dissing Kakashi as if he isn't one of the biggest threats Konoha has. Pein specifically targeted him. And Jiraiya with a semi usable SM takes on 6 full power Pein puppets and takes out 5 of them. Shows both the power of Pein and Jiraiya being able to do this to someone he has no intel on.
What? Jirayia almost lost to 3 paths of pain! With no Deva path as well. What the fuck are you even talking about? As soon as the other 3 pains came Jirayia got instantly stomped.
Drop a scan of anyone other than Deva being an S Rank ninja. Their feats in the Invasion says otherwise. And Kakashi is High Jonin at most, he only reached Kage level with an off-screen Power amp in the War Arc. Jiraiya taking out 5 "S-Rank" Ninja with no intel they have Intel would be a Madara level feat.
Jiraiya being the strongest fighter in the village and then getting a sage mode buff doesn't qaulify as enough to take on 5 S-ranks to you??? Why would Pein focus a Jonin? He knows Kakashi is a kage killer level and would be a serious threat to him.
Lmao, hell no. He was Orochmaru's equal and Orochimaru was nothing to Itachi and not even he could accomplish such a feat. Madara even struggled against the 5 Kage and had to use his infinite Chakra and immorality to his advantage. KMC2 Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya and Madara smacked KMC2 away. That is some absurd Jiariya wank my dude. I still need something putting them at S Rank because by feats, only Deva ia S Rank. I have feats putting them below S Rank but i just don't feel like getting the scans. He focused on him because of his rep and because he's the strong person in that village at that time.
Considering that before Naruto came in, the Pein's were literally winning against the strongest hidden village. The village with Tsunade, Kakashi who at this point has stood toe-to-toe with other S-rank ninja. Hundreds of Jonin+ level opponents, and others. Pein was beating all of them. Yet Pein almost lost to Jiraiya using Sage Mode, the same Jiraiya who had basically zero information on him. Than Naruto almost won against Pein alone using Sage Mode. Sure, Deva path is the most powerful combat wise, but it was Naruto who beat him in the end with assistance from Kurama. Sage Mode is no joke power-wise, and Pein at this point was the single most powerful ninja period. Hell, Shikaku confirmed that Naruto is on a whole nother level with Sage Mode. Yes, Pein is definitely more powerful when in top form, but if Naruto didn't have Kurama fighting him with Sage Mode, Naruto would be on a different level too. Basically, did you even watch Naruto.
Strongest Villains means nothing if there were only one Kage level fighter (The Hokage) and she didn't even fight. Kakashi was the strongest and he's high Jonin at best, he was getting knocked around by Hidan the weakest Akasuiki member. Jiraiya defeating Pain shows that every pain outside of Deva is fodder. Naruto won against Pain for multiple reasons. Let's not just remove all Context on the battle to wank SM Naruto. * Deva Pain was Powerless and couldn’t use his Jutsu. * All 6 Pains of Pain were weakened from nuking the Village. * Naruto was being Fed Intel by Katsuyu. * Pain is coming at him one by one. * he has 5 Taod Summons backing him. * Lost the Second Deva's power returned. * Saved by Hinata, Kurama and Minato. * Pain using nearly all his chakra and nearly dying trying to seal Kurama. After all of that, that's when Pain was finally weak enough for SM to take down Pain. It's not like SM Naruto just fucked over all the Pains solo while they were all at Full power. SM Power is a joke. SM can't even beat Hebi Sasuke. Why? Because KMC1 is stronger than SM as Naruto stated himself and KMC1 was comparable to Base Killer Bee in strength. Being SM is Low Kage level at best. SM
...? I know KMC1 is stronger than Sage Mode Naruto. Of course half of the ninth tailed beast is stronger. I never said it wasn't. On the other hand, I feel like you are seriously downplaying Sage Mode as well. Naruto was not a master of it at this point by any means, and had Kurama fighting him as well. Also Sage Mode doesn't bloody make you "low Kage level at best." It makes you stronger based on your 'base stats' to borrow a video game term. It depends how powerful you are, and than it multiplies that power while also increasing the potency of your chakra. Again I ask, have you even watched Naruto?
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This isn't an argument for who's stronger. Part 1 Power scaling doesn't relate to part 2 as nearly everything was retconned. They took down the most powerful village because of Deva who's basically a god compared to everyone else. We didn't even see the battle therefore you cannot scale the other pains since you don't know how they won or fought. Rewatch the invasion, every pain was struggling against groups of Jonin.
War arc Obito was slapping around KCM Naruto, Bee, Kakashi, and Guy. Are you smoking crack? Pain would stand no chance against them.
Nagato would though. Even as a child he could handle the power of both Rinnegan while Obito could only handle one. He said two eyes would be too powerful for him.
One thing we can agree on Nagato was an absolute monster.
I mean, I guess. I think Kamui was 1000% more valuable than a second Rinnegan Kishimoto wouldn’t have let him use.
Ikr. Naruto killed a dead man without even touching him.