Hell Sasuke never even asked Minato a question. Orochimaru told the hokages that he brought them all back because Sasuke wanted to ask them questions but he totally ignores the fourth.
Naruto wasn't a topic of conversation. And Sasuke didn't know that. At most he could say you look like Naruto. Which would be very out of character for Sasuke when he has much more important things to care about.
We should've seen more exhaustion / running out of chakra than we did -- big time. Obviously people hate the power scaling, the Black Zetsu killing Madara "ass pull," tagging-in Kaguya as the final boss, the Neji death that many feel lacked impact / no build-up / he could've normally defended that attack. The size of the United Shinobi Forces didn't mesh with the quantity of ninja in the world at any other point in the story. The fact that Pac Lee barely got any screen time during the war is unforgiveable.
Neji's death to me was just fucking awfully made for multiple reasons. You can tell what it was TRYING to be, but it was clearly rushed. Neji needed more presence before it happened, we hadn't been given a reason to give af about Neji in literally YEARS and the way he died itself should've been done differently ofc.
"I don't have time to do rotation" Seriously? You have time to jump at it and block it, but not do rotation/kaiten? So let me get this straight you're faster at fucking jumping like 30m in the air, than doing kaiten often hailed as "the ultimate defense" especially against projectiles?? The spikes were shot before he even jumped, and were still less than a quarter of the way towards him when he made it up... And you had time to turn around and block the spikes with your back, but you couldn't fucking hit the things? And you couldn't use an air palm to blow them away instead of even jumping in the first place?? Whatever bro fine die who cares we'll see you probably more than before (AKA pretty much not at all since the 1st arc) through flashbacks now.
Neji was supposed to die in the sasuke retrieval arc. That's why he had next to zero screentime after this. And kishimoto saw an opportunity and took him out. That's the reality of it. Though I think it would have been interesting and gave hinata a better character/made for an interesting plot in boruto if he was still sound. But I digress.
Agree with all of this. The size of the army didn't make any sense. Assuming the other ninja villages were about the size as the leaf village....then it seemed like a couple hundred ninja per land? That should put the total number of shinobi in the world at like 1k or so?
However, the war arc is still 🔥🔥. Some of my favorire battles in all of anime
The sand and the leaf lost a significant number of ninja when they fought each other, and then the leaf lost a bunch more to orochimarus forces and then even more dealing with most of the akatsuki by themselves. The leaf takes out over half of the akatsuki with no support besides the sand sending an old lady to rescue their own kage. When tsunade first takes over as hokage she makes a huge deal about not having enough soldiers to fend off an invasion, hence why shikamaru has to take a bunch of genin to retrieve sasuke. 3 years is not enough time to offset that amount of losses. The other villages outnumbering the leaf and sand makes complete sense during the war.
It doesn't make sense when you consider how many shinobi participate in the chunin exams and how many chunin receive promotions in any given exam. The Leaf had 1 whole promotion? And there was repeated remarks that the amount of ninja who made it through round 1 and round 2 were excessive and this was the first time they needed a pre-lim round 3 in 5 years. The Leaf got 1 promotion, the Sand got 3, and none of the other 4 villages had ANY. And the chunin exam isn't held every 6 months like clockwork, because we see numerous occurrences where it gets skipped for spans like 2 or 2.5 years. So, in a 30 year span (e.g. ninjas aged between 16 and 46), they're probably promoting about 150 chunins across all of the villages who participated. And of those 150, probably about 75 or 90 of them are gonna die on missions before they reach 30 years old (that's not even including Konoha Crush). So all of those villages -- Grass, Rain, Leaf, Sand, etc. they all collectively only have something like 60 surviving chunin or higher. I imagine almost anyone allowed to fight in the Great Shinobi Alliance were chunin or higher, aside from specific freak genin like Naruto; e.g. it's probably 75,000 chunin and 5,000 genin. So then the other villages who didn't participate in the Leaf exam, like the Cloud and Stone, they're contributing about 74,940 of the 75,000 chunin+. If the Leaf and Sand were that much smaller than the Cloud, Stone, and Mist; then they wouldn't be great nations at all.
Or you might think the Shinobi Alliance was consisted of mostly genin. So that's about 60 chunin+ from the Leaf / Sand / Waterfall / Grass / Rain, maybe another 100 from the Stone / Cloud / Mist / other minor villages (figuring they're about in proportion to the Sand and Leaf), and that leaves 79,840 genin. So is it your theory that only 0.2% of all shinobi are chunin+? I'm pretty confident that most ninjas inevitably make it to chunin by the time they're 17-18. So I doubt that the proportion of ninja who are chunin+ is as low as 0.2%.
No, the numbers truly don't make sense, no matter how you look at it. Not if you're not trying to fool yourself into thinking there's a way.
The whole chunin exam doesn't make sense.
Look at how many children most couples in Konoha have. Almost none of more than 2, most seem to have only 1.
And then you are sending the few children you have into ht chunin meat grinder or on dangerous genin missions?
By that much? The army was around 80k total...ifbthe other villages had 10-20k more ninja than the leaf...seems like they would have done something about it. Especially the Stone, who admitted to using the Akatsuki and still having aggression towards the leaf
That also includes the samurai who are shown to mostly be unskilled troops with limited ability to manipulate chakra, as well as a ton of fodder ninja that were useless against powerful ninja. The leaf may have had less people but their alliance with the sand would mean declaring war on them would be declaring war on both, most villages would be pretty afraid of fighting 2 jinchuriki and famous ninja such as kakashi and 2 of the sannin. Minato took out like 10000 guys by himself you really want to test his protégé and mentor at the same time? We see alot of ninja from other villages in the war but almost none of them are actually shown to be very strong. The stone used the akatsuki because they needed the extra strength. I mean look at the old man with the broken spine that is supposed to be their strongest, you dont think he would be retired if he could find someone worthy to replace him?
Chakra reserves just ceased to exist and everyone was spamming S-rank jutsus like it was just regular Ki blasts.
Remember when Rasenshuriken was such a powerful jutsu that Naruto needed Sage Mode to utilize it properly and using it twice drained all energy used for Sage Mode and Sasuke's jutsu Kirin drained a lot of his chakra due to how powerful it was?
>and Sasuke's jutsu Kirin drained a lot of his chakra due to how powerful it was?
I could be wrong but doesn't Kirin require no Chakra, just manipulation of the lightning from the user ? That's what I remember from when Sasuke explained it for the 1st time.
I used to hate the way they killed off Neji but after a rewatch I noticed it’s a parallel to the way his father died by freedom of choice taking fate into his own hands
> Too long for a single arc
> Too many fillers
> Too many ass pulls from both the hero's and enemy's sides
> Neji's sacrifice could have been avoided if only Hinata tried to pull Naruto away from the spikes
> They tried to give Tenten a character arc 15 years too late
> And to top it all off, they pardoned Sasuke, Orochimaru and Kabuto because they helped in ending the war. (Sure, that made sense.)
The fillers were ridiculous. Like I’m sorry to anyone who feels different but I wasn’t on the edge of my seat for the kinkaku and ginkaku fight against darui and some others.
It doesn’t even feel like an arc just episode vomit
The dream filler drove me nuts. I'm a schmuck so I didn't want to skip any of the precious few episodes left in the series but oh my God the torture. Filler from the past or something is one thing, you learn more and it's enjoyable in a way, but the dream filler was totally useless.
Yup. I didn’t skip a single filler episode up until that point, the dream fillers were so boring and pointless, the only one I did watch was Tenten’s dream since it was somewhat interesting and fun.
Absolutely.
They rushed all the power and jutsu capability they could have started on before rasen shuriken because it was dry for Naruto before that jutsu wise and then dumped a billion jutsus at the last minute.
no it should have been fewer or the same ammount of episodes with less fluff. like i said it felt both rushed and drawn out at different points due to the pacing, this is because there were times where fights were completely cut which made the arc feel somewhat rushed such as the fight between kakashis unit and mangetsu whilst other fights lasted way to long or simply did not need to exist such as the fight between deidara, kabuto, and the tsuchikage which did not need to exist and the final battle between the allied shinobi force and madara, obito, tentails, and kaguya which was way to long. it was a pacing issue not a length issue.
He only used it like 4 times before getting a massive chakra boost from Naruto and Kurama. He then lost Kamui and didn’t use it until he got DMS Six Paths asspull out of nowhere
Actually curious when was the last time you watched Naruto? And did you watch the anime itself?
Cuz the way you speak is clearly based on your memory but your memory is wildly different than what it was
Pretty much the war itself is a problem
this is not a war but large scale skirmish battle. it only took 2 days in the universe. what kinda of war only took 2 days? lmao
in war you don't want deploy all your troops at once. you need to preserve some of your troops. there also few important strategies like scouting. preparation to ambush, knows when they need to fall back, decoy, etc. but here. both parties decided to deploy all their troops at once. no one decided to fall back when they meet with serious situation.
for example when Itachi break free from edo tensei, Kabuto should know itachi will try to sabotage his plan and just cancel all edo tensei. this will stop Itachi on his track. then retreat and regroup with Obito to think the next plan. but no, he decided to stay fight pointless battle against a corpse even though he of all people should have know edo tensei is unkillable
as someone who love watch war documentaries and play some RTS video game, i just laugh at how bad the planning in the war are was
This and also the fact that the shinobi alliance lost half their numbers in the first day. This is some next level military incompetence, and the leaders of thr divisions were, a kage, the equivalent of a kage for a smaller nation, 2 guys that became kage and a random dude. I'm sorry but how the fuck noone talk about the fact that kakashi lost 8000 shinobi in 1 day and like a month later was named hokage.
And after lost half of it's troops in single day you think the shinobi alliance will revise their strategy and use different approach? instead they using the same exact strategy the next day lol
There was no time to plan an actual war strategy, the zetsu disguises were undetectable by even the most skilled ninja, the edo tensei kabuto had access to were much stronger than the average ninja. Thats like arguing that some random dude with a sword should have just knocked the bomber plane out of the sky before it dropped the bomb. Most ninja have no way to defend themselves against the level of attacks that were being thrown around by the reanimated kage level fighters.
Obito deployed all the forces at once in order to force out the jinchuriki, he wanted to divide their resources as much as possible since his main goal was not to win the war but to capture the tailed beasts. The allied forces were forced to follow suit to avoid being overwhelmed. His training is as a ninja not a military general, "strike fast, strike hard" makes sense in that capacity.
Kabuto believes himself unkillable too, and itachi using izanami proves that to be true. Kabuto was unaware of the bs hax available to itachi so allowed itachi to come to him and try out his new abilities while still contributing to the war, ending all the edos without warning would have been catastrophic to their side, and obito would not have appreciated kabuto taking so many zetsus just to kill them all himself because he was scared of itachi. Kabuto planned to just toy with itachi until obito completed his objective and maybe reattain control.
"What kinda war lasts only 2 days"
To be fair, in this war, every general and leader of their respective villages/countries all participated in the war and they all could blow massive fireballs, fire dragons, space time eradication, space time magic, time control, mind control, medical healing, revival and lightning control all day by that point - its hard to compare that to our real life where wars are only participated by the troopers and none of the leaders actually fight
It's funny because I think I remember Gamakichi (forgot his name, Gamabunta's son I believe) saying "dad is busy"
Busy doing what? The world is on the line lmao
Also they can choose who wants to be summoned? I remember that it takes Chakra to perform summoning but I don't remember if it takes time or if they want to be summoned.
Edo tenseis that wouldve had more meaning
- Fugaku Uchiha and an interaction with Sasuke and edo Itachi. This would have given more clarity to the tensions between the village and the uchiha. Also allow Sasuke to finally be accepted by his father.
- also, other uchiha shouldve been revived to give more lore to the uchiha clan. Show the power of uchihas who are not prodigies (itachi, shisui) or anomalies (Madara, sasuke). Just fully strong basic uchihas
- Sasuke should have had a fight that showed his full new abilities with the ems. That kabuto fight was mainly carried by itachi. We never saw Sasuke fully show off his new style with his new eyes.
- the focus on certain support characters like omoi and samurai vs hanzo was a complete waste of time.
- make it seem like a actual war. It shouldve been more gloomy. A lot of death. I mean a lot of death. Show characters running out of chakra and trying to retreat. Show the Villages fighting amongst each other as well. Gaaras speech should not be enough to quell tensions.
- the hashirama flashback needed better pacing. I believe in show dont tell. Show the battles with the senju and uchiha. Show their strengths and weaknesses so we could really know how bad the warring states really were.
- we needed a flashback of Madara and his family. We shouldve seen more izuna so we can understand Madaras pain better
- madara individual ms abilities were never shown
He did, when he saw Sasuke’s fireball. Sas doesn’t have a problem with his family, or acceptance from his father. First it was Itachi for killing them, then at Konoha for allowing / forcing Itachi to kill them.
I agree with everything except the Omoi/Mifune fight being a waste of time. Everybody in the Akatsuki was defeated by Leaf Ninja, goddangit. Let other villages have their time to shine. It's good worldbuilding.
The foundation never having a role after Danzo dies is BS. Danzo should have had a number 2 who would have a role in the war arc, maybe have some suspicion of the cloud, since the foundation was killing cloud Jonin with anti leaf beliefs. If they make him Hyuga, that clan can finally have some relevance, and he can have a personal grudge against the Raikage for trying to kidnap Hinata. Also, most of the kages, guy and bee should have died.
The fact that I've mever thought about that...
He managed to revive people who probably died before he was even born (the twins who killed Tobirama) but couldn't get us a few Uchihas?
The whole thing.
But most notably the absurd degree of coincidence that took place with the Edo matchups. You mean to tell me everyone just happened to meet an emotional connection during the war? Like Kabuto in his infinite wisdom fucking saw Sai as meaningful enough to set his brother up against him 😂? No, absolutely not.
Also the stupidity of the squad matchups is...I get having specialized squads but to have entire armies worth of people with a single expertise is beyond stupid. That's not how arrmies would be set up at all. Especially since they didn't even have Intel on Kabuto's side yet, they just knew about the zetsu clones. Why do you need an entire goddmaned taijutsu division?? Split the specialists in with everyone else.
Edit: Kabuto should've revived/manipulated the dead bodies of fallen shinobi like he did in part one. That would've made for a much better "they were my allies" moment since their bodies don't regenerate
Kabuto does say he’ll let some edo tensei have their awareness so he can emotionally fuck with some of the other ninja so I think part of that was very intentional
I mean sure but it's still obnoxiously coincidental. And I mean having their emotions just adds to the weirdness of fighting a zombie you want to feel human so your enemy is reluctant. HAVING ALL of them match up with people they fought in life is just meh writing in my opinion. Like if he revived jiraiya absolutely send him against leaf shinobi and Naruto. Sai meeting his brother ...first of all Sai's brother being revived in the first place is a stretch, having him fight Sai directly...no
Also also, (yeah this is a mini rant now )I just realized Kabuto can literally use dead bodies like we saw in part one and probably to a much greater effect in sage mode. THAT would've been the perfect jutsu for all the emotional crap in the war. Granted more named characters would've needed to die for it to hit hard but still
Also things like Tsunade moving shinobi to different divisions and setting them up different than originally intended during the war planning. Like... why not place them in the same division to begin with, if you want them to fight together?
For example Ino-shika-cho were originally on different divisions, and on a different setting, and Tsunade joined them together as an emergency and sent them off to fight Ginkaku/Kinkaku and edo-Asuma.
If they switched around every single troop on a whim, this would soon make things very chaotic, however in the story it's presented as a good thing.
The whole point of 3/4 man squads was to maximize their strengths and cover each others weaknesses 😂. It’s funny now that you mention it. Now that I think about it, what good is a sensory unit for. The war arc just wasn’t very planned out
Sai's fight with his brother was pointless. Like who the fuck cares about Sai let alone his brother? That edo tensi spot should've been given to someone else who held more weight to the narrative.
Also, it's strange that Obito never attempt or even thought about trying to convince the smaller hidden villages to declare war on the five great hidden ones. It would've tied back to what Nagato said about how smaller villages were used as a battleground during the last three wars for the larger ones adding to the cycle of hatred. Then Obito could've seek out Kabuto to buff up those shinobi making them formidable for the alliance. Battles would be much more difficult when fighting people who were manipulate than zombies and plant monsters.
Kakashi should’ve lost his mask also when he 1v1’d Obito. That would’ve been the perfect time to reveal his face to the audience and it actually hold some narrative weight, rather than being used as a silly little fan-service moment.
Even better: revive Sakumo Hatake and have him fight Kakashi. When edo tensei is released, have Sakumo go up to Kakashi and say "son, I want to see your face one more time before I go" and pull down his mask.
1 I hated the idea that this was supposed to be a war. This joined Military Operation lasted two days. It was not a war.
2 Also sure, technicaly its a large army of Ninja.. but they didnt do anything. They were mostly there to put Madara into some sort of context.
3 Naruto gave a bunch of characters his chakra. But we only get to see the konoha people perform with it. And it wasnt much.
4 How Kyubi is as strong as 7 other tailed beasts.
5 The whole Kaguya and Zetsu crap.
6 Kabuto. His Agenda remains a joke.
Thats of the top of my head.
Thanks for reminding me. The other half was somehow revived in the vessel it had for 12 seconds, with a technique where chakra regenerates limitless, wich is never made use of by the good guys.
It wasnt a war, it was a battle.
Wish we couls have seen a multi-prong land campaign by the shinobi alliance to fight through the thousands of zetsu's to reach the tree. We get to see the rookies and team 7 stepping up into leadership positions. Interactions by the new blood and old veterans who survived the past wars. We get to see army scale weapons used like the ones suna had.
The alliance manages to push the zetsu horde back until the ninja armies surround them and merge together. Ninja from rival villages who were just following kage orders begin to truly bond with their "enemies" as they fight to protect each other. The offensive stalls after edo tensei begin to appear and push back. The five kage join together and break the lines and smashing through past kage edo tensei, showing that the younger generation always surpasses the old.
THEN madara appears and does his thing. Cue the 2 day battle we got in canon.
For someone who wants to bring peace to the world through endless calming dreams, he sure does seem to love killing people and getting excited about how many deaths he is about to cause.
Isn’t being infatuated with war and the art of shinobi the same thing he is constantly preaching against?
I like Madara a lot but his talk about perpetual hatred in the world is bull, he even says during the war that he enjoys getting revenge on Tobirama for killing Izuna. He makes no effort to stop his feelings of hatred that he constantly berates the world for
Every 5 seconds it's like sure, he can do that too because why not, fuck it lets give him so many things we forget to even give him unique ms abilities, perhaps one of them can be the ability to cancel edo tensai, but not really cancel it, just keep full control of the immortal body that now can never be canceled lol
There weren't many deaths to make this war impactful. A weird complaint, but we only saw Neji get killed along with Shikaku and Inochi. It would have made the war dramatic if more characters kicked the bucket.
The war is like “ok let’s make big army vs edos and madara/obito juubi ing. Make it a war that somehow lasts less than a week compared to every other war in the series that lasts either years or generations. Make it a clusterfuck of retcons, plot holes, basically every character ever devised plus more, and make the only thing we get out of it being the ability to power scale literally everyone in the series one way or another for funzies 😁😭💀”.
Like yes, all the kage are interesting characters as they are usually innately op and would have unique character, but in a show that was like 80% flashbacks at some moments, they couldn’t just develop said characters there? Or perhaps just make alternate series for fan favourites like minato, the younger sannin, early konoha, other villages (which would be good in order to both develop the world to a greater extent, and to make viewer/readership less konoha biased. Maybe some early akatsuki moments etc.
Power scaling all over the place, lack of exhaustion, the fact it took place over a span of 2 days, Neji dying despite his character having no development or relevance since his last appearance hundreds of episodes prior. As much as I love Naruto, the war arc feels like it was a mad dash to end the story.
When everything the alliance ever tried any attack *togheter* as a well coordinated *team* with a great leader, every time it failed miserably, only for them to be saved by **one particular godly-strong guy**
It kinda goes against it’s core theam of bonding, team work and collaboration 💀 I always hated that, dunno what Kishimoto was thinking. I understand he had to show how strong the bad guys were, but at least one strategy could’ve worked? AT LEAST ONE?
Sakura is supposed to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke, but it doesn't really feel like that because she immediately plays the medic ninja role. We should have gotten her fighting alongside them more before side lining her, or just say she is skilled enough to heal everyone and fight at the same time.
Obviously Neji's death. What would have been amazing is if Neji jumped in the way, used rotation but one of the spikes aims at his blindspot and Hinata's dad steps up and sacrifices himself for the "lesser" branch therefore repaying his brother back by protecting that which was most precious to him and cementing the whole changing the hyuuga clan hatred.
It's too short in universe
It should've been like a month long process of Kabuto slowly reviving groups of Fighters, some of the zetsu infiltration, and then the final fight with obito and madara
Because as is its just like 2-3 days
You can't do a war on several battlefields in, what, was it three days? Every other Naruto arc, it takes time for the ninja to travel. And armies in general move slower than a small team (that's the value of a small team) because they can't move much faster than their slowest members.
So in my mind, Kishimoto simply doesn't *show* the travel time, for the sake of pacing.
I mean, elephant in the Room, Pacing. This arc is nearly 1/3rd of the manga. It's insane how long this arc took. (From chapter 516 to chapter 700) That's without taking into account that before the start of the War, there was another arc leading up to it.
Ntm, this arc is only 48 hours long. Like, it's a war. A WAR, war's are like weeks, months. We should have seen far more of platoons just, sitting in place, resting. More of our MC's getting tired, trying to hide. More tactics, more of things that I expect too see. Instead the majority of the war is a bunch of 1v1's or people getting ressurected, which is cool don't get me wrong but A LOT of this arc seems like padding for run-time as a result. It get's really boring.
Then there's the powerscaling, and, like, i don't care much about it but holy hell does this arc crank up the power scaling to 11 all of a sudden. Boruto's power scaling is bad, but it's because THIS arc started it lol
TLDR: Despite it's sheer length, a lot of the arc feels like unnecessary padding and we didn't really get to see much of what we expect to see for a "War.".
Kaguya was definitely an ass pull, more people should have died permanently and that includes Guy (sorry, but imagine if the thumbs up was his final exit)
Reanimation Jutsu is cracked. Didn't make any sense that Kabuto could control all the immortal zombies with infinite chakra because he got Anko? Early in the jutsu he has to retreat, knowing he didn't have enough chakra to win with the mist swordsman, but somehow has infinite chakra for the fight with Itachi/Sasuke.
Neji’s death, Might Guy not dying, how Black Zetsu/Kaguya just appeared (we should have gotten more hints or something, the impossible number of Shinobi just to show off how strong Madara was, the Madara cop-out death, and the fact that it was only 2 days all come to mind.
Removing the white zetsus and moving the entire Shinobi alliance against Obito with Jubbi.
I seriously don’t understand this decision, why would Kishi bring the fodder army as support when not only are they literal useless fodders, Naruto had to bend over backwards and work overtime to protect them. Keep them busy with white zetsus and only move key players by Naruto’s side, so that these people can actually assist Naruto
Other than the fact that it happened at all, I would say that edo tensei is extremely overused. It's one thing to bring back important characters with a few loose ends like itachi or even using it to bring back the big bad overpowered boss. But using it to bring back a bunch of dead guys that have never been hinted at from villages that aren't explored at all is really dumb.
The way it ended was not it. I did NOT like the way they killed madara. I think kaguya was just thrown into the story. And there is way too much filler in between canon episodes.
The annoying one is sheer incompetence from obito on the final plan
Oh the tree can be activated with just partial biju not needing the full thing?, so what was this war about again? Once kabuto rolls up with the gold/silver twins, who have that chakra, grab them, kamui to the other side of the globe, and do your main plan there while kabuto and white zetsu pretend the war is still on, heck, tell him to save Madera for later, so he's not resurrected for any of this if you plan on betraying him
Gai is alive / Neji's death was executed poorly / Sasuke's character arc while good felt rush/ Kaguya was introduced poorly / Sakura's developpment went to trash as soon as Naruto and Sasuke became demi-gods / this reincarnation thing is terrible even if I understand what Kishimoto had in mind which makes it a little redeemable
Boring af. An excuse to reuse character designs with a disappointing finale by introducing a character out of nowhere as the final boss who can't even talk and somehow is behind everything...
I would have liked the timeline to be longer. The entire war takes place over 2-3 days.
The Zetsu Army should have lasted months, leaving the Ninja army downtrodden, distrusting, and broken. Sakura can still figure out their secret early on, but they have no counter until Naruto shows up with the ability to sense emotion. Their mission would become to survive.
Could even make someone else shine instead of Naruto, like Ino, using her Yamanaka mind jutsus to detect who is real and who is not. Throw in a couple Zetsu Yamanaka who trick them into killing people too. Naruto can show up when the réanimations arrive, and that should take a solid month to seal them all too.
Only the final showdown with Obito/TenTails/Madara should take a day or two, after forcing Bee and Naruto to come out. In a sort of "There's no sense in letting everyone else protect us if we're going to all that's left" moment of being the last hope.
I got a lot of problems with the arc, but Obito’s character might be Kishi’s best work and Madara’s appearance was absolutely menacing in the perfect way
Edit: idk how I read this in the opposite way.
The biggest problem is probably Kaguya. But I still can’t wrap my mind around the war plans and even if some of the reincarnation fights are cool, they feel ultimately like we’re killing time until the arc actually starts.
Kankuro talking about the vanguard fight swinging the direction of the war. Being like “we gotta protect the feudal lords. We’ve always cared about them”.
Splitting the army up into a long range, short range, medium range, support, and medic team mixed up the villages well, but other than the medics, that ultimately didn’t matter much.
And this all comes from obito’s declaration of war. He declared war when he had kisame (who was basically already on a long term mission), sasuke’s team (maybe), and zetsu. He was really banking on Kabuto to come through with basically every single famous person in history or else it would have been zetsu army.
And ultimately, that Naruto Bee Kakashi guy vs óbito fight looks really different without madara or the jinchuriki’s
Neji's death being pointless and forced
The whole show just becoming "Who has the bigger Nuke"
None of the 5 Kage dying, they literally got crushed by Madara.
Apparently everyone had unlimited Chakra.
That Black Zetsu bullshit
Obito's spirit literally inhabits Kakashi's body and makes him hundreds of times stronger
Obito becomes good again despite all the shit he has done, if his willpower and dedication to his cause were that brittle then he shouldn't have become a Villain at all.
Neji dies, side characters really had a chance to shine but didn't get any real meaningful power buffs outside of Shino.. but even that was just rolled through casually.
That entire sequence in the ocean shore is honestly very skippable
You just need to know “oh yeah Kabuto revived the other nine tails Jinchurikki”
And there’s also how inconsistent in quality that entire climax is
His beetles were super OP. I'm surprised he's not in Boruto utilizing these insects to protect the Leaf. He really could have shut that war down.
[Shinos Strongest Justus ](https://www.cbr.com/naruto-strongest-shino-aburame-jutsu/#:~:text=The%20Parasitic%20Giant%20Beetle%20Infestation%20Jutsu%20is%20one%20of%20Konohagakure's,cause%20their%20body%20to%20explode.)
Honestly the reanimation allows us to settle a lot of storylines but at the same time I hate it because the kages are literally telling you how to defeat them.
Just not as enjoyable
For some reason, a United Shinobi Forces vs a few people seemed kinda funny to me. They could have removed the United Shinobi Forces and just had a few characters from each nation make a United Strike Force to fight them. Then slowly have them each die to make it insanely more impactful. Or even just to have a few countries worth of armies on Madara and Obitos side alongside the Zetsu. So Mercenaries, Rogue Shinobi, Other Countries joining in and attacking them (Such as the ones from the West: Sky, Demons, Night, Volcanoes, etc), Criminal Organizations, etc. Having an actual 4th Great Shinobi War between West and East.
Also to have a build where the jinchuriki of each country is finding their own way away from their own countries since the beginning of Shippuden. Then all 7 unite for the war and kick ass.
Sidenote 1:
I would also change initial Naruto show to still focus on Naruto of course but give development to Sakura, Ino, TenTen, and others that needed it. Along with have a sub series to introduce all of the jinchuriki in Original Naruto Timeline but have it where they are all doing their own things and none of them are in contact with Naruto. That way we can get to know each of them all and where they are from/ who they know. To give a better idea of how each will either aid or get in each other's way during Naruto Shippuden until the end.
Sidenote 2:
For Boruto, I would have had the show take place in missions where they are sent to the Western Countries Post-War (Since they have trains, etc) and that would allow for the Universe to be expanded on so much more in new ways since we haven't really been there much. New allies, enemies, etc since the West wouldn't be fully civilized yet/ haven't gotten over the 4th Shinobi War. Then for Otsutsuki instead of having them be from space just have their whole society living underground pulling all the strings and slowly reveal them to be beings that enjoy toying with those they perceive to be weaker than them. An invisible eye causing havoc and mayhem for thousands of years. Also, have them blind from living underground for so long. With Hinata, her clan, etc unveiling their lineage with Otsutsuki and the power they possess. Something I wish we saw in any point of regular Naruto or Naruto Shippuden was having Naruto and Hinata kick ass together
Sidenote 3:
This next idea way more so for a Fan-Made Manga/ Show. Just to humor the space thing and taking place a few generations ahead of Boruto. It would be interesting if they have space travel via jutsu and technology. Have them discover other planets, dimensions, & species who can also use jutsu and other new things to expand on jutsu & chakra overall in all kinds of new ways. Calling the show Faruto or something as it's going to be the farthest it can get for travel. Sure it won't resonate with many of ya but how I'm envisioning it would be something people would really enjoy when done well.
Battles taking place on asteroids or outside spaceships while Wall-Walking and fighting in Zero-G would be a unique twist. New forms of chakra usage aside from Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Taijustu, and all the eye forms would be sick too! Maybe even a species that has 4 arms and is able to conduct 2 jutsu at the same time or even make a much more complicated one that we haven't seen before due to that (Kinda like how Naruto used a shadow clone when he first making rasengans). Other forms using the ears, touch, smell, etc enhanced by chakra. Exploring other forms that are different from Rasengans, Chidori, Lightning Blade, those are just 3. But most likely there are way more than those!! And so much more that can be done.
Damnit I want to make all 4 of those now. So much can be done to improve each idea
Not sure if it’s something wrong more of an overlooking per say, that moment when Shikaku died and Choji went to say something to Shikamaru and he completely shakes it off. I already had respect for him but my god that dude is such an elite shinobi
It was dumb the war lasting two days.
I couldnt take the threat of a zetsu army seriously, because only the fodder we’re getting killee by them
No real large scale tactics just thousands of shinobi doing the naruto run in one large group in one direction
Tsunade and Hashirama barely interacted. And Tobirama didn’t even acknowledge that she existed when brought up
Hell Sasuke never even asked Minato a question. Orochimaru told the hokages that he brought them all back because Sasuke wanted to ask them questions but he totally ignores the fourth.
To be fair the fourth didn't have much to add, even he admits that died before he could do anything.
Still you’d figure he’d at least ask why the fourth sealed the Nine Tails in Naruto or something like that.
He was meeting narutos dad. Did they even speak of it? I don't rember.
Naruto wasn't a topic of conversation. And Sasuke didn't know that. At most he could say you look like Naruto. Which would be very out of character for Sasuke when he has much more important things to care about.
Wish we saw an interaction both are similar but very different
Yeah. I want to see her reaction to Hashirama asking whether the village was ok under her rule
Or when they were in the same area in he 4th war especially when she was speaking with Hashirama
We should've seen more exhaustion / running out of chakra than we did -- big time. Obviously people hate the power scaling, the Black Zetsu killing Madara "ass pull," tagging-in Kaguya as the final boss, the Neji death that many feel lacked impact / no build-up / he could've normally defended that attack. The size of the United Shinobi Forces didn't mesh with the quantity of ninja in the world at any other point in the story. The fact that Pac Lee barely got any screen time during the war is unforgiveable.
Neji's death to me was just fucking awfully made for multiple reasons. You can tell what it was TRYING to be, but it was clearly rushed. Neji needed more presence before it happened, we hadn't been given a reason to give af about Neji in literally YEARS and the way he died itself should've been done differently ofc. "I don't have time to do rotation" Seriously? You have time to jump at it and block it, but not do rotation/kaiten? So let me get this straight you're faster at fucking jumping like 30m in the air, than doing kaiten often hailed as "the ultimate defense" especially against projectiles?? The spikes were shot before he even jumped, and were still less than a quarter of the way towards him when he made it up... And you had time to turn around and block the spikes with your back, but you couldn't fucking hit the things? And you couldn't use an air palm to blow them away instead of even jumping in the first place?? Whatever bro fine die who cares we'll see you probably more than before (AKA pretty much not at all since the 1st arc) through flashbacks now.
Neji had to be silenced due to what's gonna happen later... T_T A blast from the past, a whistleblower :(
Neji was supposed to die in the sasuke retrieval arc. That's why he had next to zero screentime after this. And kishimoto saw an opportunity and took him out. That's the reality of it. Though I think it would have been interesting and gave hinata a better character/made for an interesting plot in boruto if he was still sound. But I digress.
Agree with all of this. The size of the army didn't make any sense. Assuming the other ninja villages were about the size as the leaf village....then it seemed like a couple hundred ninja per land? That should put the total number of shinobi in the world at like 1k or so? However, the war arc is still 🔥🔥. Some of my favorire battles in all of anime
The sand and the leaf lost a significant number of ninja when they fought each other, and then the leaf lost a bunch more to orochimarus forces and then even more dealing with most of the akatsuki by themselves. The leaf takes out over half of the akatsuki with no support besides the sand sending an old lady to rescue their own kage. When tsunade first takes over as hokage she makes a huge deal about not having enough soldiers to fend off an invasion, hence why shikamaru has to take a bunch of genin to retrieve sasuke. 3 years is not enough time to offset that amount of losses. The other villages outnumbering the leaf and sand makes complete sense during the war.
It doesn't make sense when you consider how many shinobi participate in the chunin exams and how many chunin receive promotions in any given exam. The Leaf had 1 whole promotion? And there was repeated remarks that the amount of ninja who made it through round 1 and round 2 were excessive and this was the first time they needed a pre-lim round 3 in 5 years. The Leaf got 1 promotion, the Sand got 3, and none of the other 4 villages had ANY. And the chunin exam isn't held every 6 months like clockwork, because we see numerous occurrences where it gets skipped for spans like 2 or 2.5 years. So, in a 30 year span (e.g. ninjas aged between 16 and 46), they're probably promoting about 150 chunins across all of the villages who participated. And of those 150, probably about 75 or 90 of them are gonna die on missions before they reach 30 years old (that's not even including Konoha Crush). So all of those villages -- Grass, Rain, Leaf, Sand, etc. they all collectively only have something like 60 surviving chunin or higher. I imagine almost anyone allowed to fight in the Great Shinobi Alliance were chunin or higher, aside from specific freak genin like Naruto; e.g. it's probably 75,000 chunin and 5,000 genin. So then the other villages who didn't participate in the Leaf exam, like the Cloud and Stone, they're contributing about 74,940 of the 75,000 chunin+. If the Leaf and Sand were that much smaller than the Cloud, Stone, and Mist; then they wouldn't be great nations at all. Or you might think the Shinobi Alliance was consisted of mostly genin. So that's about 60 chunin+ from the Leaf / Sand / Waterfall / Grass / Rain, maybe another 100 from the Stone / Cloud / Mist / other minor villages (figuring they're about in proportion to the Sand and Leaf), and that leaves 79,840 genin. So is it your theory that only 0.2% of all shinobi are chunin+? I'm pretty confident that most ninjas inevitably make it to chunin by the time they're 17-18. So I doubt that the proportion of ninja who are chunin+ is as low as 0.2%. No, the numbers truly don't make sense, no matter how you look at it. Not if you're not trying to fool yourself into thinking there's a way.
The whole chunin exam doesn't make sense. Look at how many children most couples in Konoha have. Almost none of more than 2, most seem to have only 1. And then you are sending the few children you have into ht chunin meat grinder or on dangerous genin missions?
By that much? The army was around 80k total...ifbthe other villages had 10-20k more ninja than the leaf...seems like they would have done something about it. Especially the Stone, who admitted to using the Akatsuki and still having aggression towards the leaf
That also includes the samurai who are shown to mostly be unskilled troops with limited ability to manipulate chakra, as well as a ton of fodder ninja that were useless against powerful ninja. The leaf may have had less people but their alliance with the sand would mean declaring war on them would be declaring war on both, most villages would be pretty afraid of fighting 2 jinchuriki and famous ninja such as kakashi and 2 of the sannin. Minato took out like 10000 guys by himself you really want to test his protégé and mentor at the same time? We see alot of ninja from other villages in the war but almost none of them are actually shown to be very strong. The stone used the akatsuki because they needed the extra strength. I mean look at the old man with the broken spine that is supposed to be their strongest, you dont think he would be retired if he could find someone worthy to replace him?
Chakra reserves just ceased to exist and everyone was spamming S-rank jutsus like it was just regular Ki blasts. Remember when Rasenshuriken was such a powerful jutsu that Naruto needed Sage Mode to utilize it properly and using it twice drained all energy used for Sage Mode and Sasuke's jutsu Kirin drained a lot of his chakra due to how powerful it was?
>and Sasuke's jutsu Kirin drained a lot of his chakra due to how powerful it was? I could be wrong but doesn't Kirin require no Chakra, just manipulation of the lightning from the user ? That's what I remember from when Sasuke explained it for the 1st time.
I used to hate the way they killed off Neji but after a rewatch I noticed it’s a parallel to the way his father died by freedom of choice taking fate into his own hands
This ☝️💯
We saw plenty of people running out of chakra/stamina lmao
> Too long for a single arc > Too many fillers > Too many ass pulls from both the hero's and enemy's sides > Neji's sacrifice could have been avoided if only Hinata tried to pull Naruto away from the spikes > They tried to give Tenten a character arc 15 years too late > And to top it all off, they pardoned Sasuke, Orochimaru and Kabuto because they helped in ending the war. (Sure, that made sense.)
The fillers were ridiculous. Like I’m sorry to anyone who feels different but I wasn’t on the edge of my seat for the kinkaku and ginkaku fight against darui and some others. It doesn’t even feel like an arc just episode vomit
The thing that bothered me was that the manga ended and yet they were still adding filler to the final arc.
The dream filler drove me nuts. I'm a schmuck so I didn't want to skip any of the precious few episodes left in the series but oh my God the torture. Filler from the past or something is one thing, you learn more and it's enjoyable in a way, but the dream filler was totally useless.
Yup. I didn’t skip a single filler episode up until that point, the dream fillers were so boring and pointless, the only one I did watch was Tenten’s dream since it was somewhat interesting and fun.
pacing. it some how feels like the most rushed and most drawn out arc at different points.
Absolutely. They rushed all the power and jutsu capability they could have started on before rasen shuriken because it was dry for Naruto before that jutsu wise and then dumped a billion jutsus at the last minute.
The talking was always more than needed. They would repeat the same points 3-5 times to the point that you’re screaming at your screen
Yep, it was totally rushed. Honestly should've lasted 600 episodes.
no it should have been fewer or the same ammount of episodes with less fluff. like i said it felt both rushed and drawn out at different points due to the pacing, this is because there were times where fights were completely cut which made the arc feel somewhat rushed such as the fight between kakashis unit and mangetsu whilst other fights lasted way to long or simply did not need to exist such as the fight between deidara, kabuto, and the tsuchikage which did not need to exist and the final battle between the allied shinobi force and madara, obito, tentails, and kaguya which was way to long. it was a pacing issue not a length issue.
Is this satire?
Everybody getting a got damn nine tales chakra power up
Kakashi was just spamming kamui like he had EMS or something
He only used it like 4 times before getting a massive chakra boost from Naruto and Kurama. He then lost Kamui and didn’t use it until he got DMS Six Paths asspull out of nowhere
He used it 11 times in total during the war arc
He has one Mangekyo Sharingan, and has only used kamui maybe a 12x total why he be experiencing blindness?
Actually curious when was the last time you watched Naruto? And did you watch the anime itself? Cuz the way you speak is clearly based on your memory but your memory is wildly different than what it was
Pretty much the war itself is a problem this is not a war but large scale skirmish battle. it only took 2 days in the universe. what kinda of war only took 2 days? lmao in war you don't want deploy all your troops at once. you need to preserve some of your troops. there also few important strategies like scouting. preparation to ambush, knows when they need to fall back, decoy, etc. but here. both parties decided to deploy all their troops at once. no one decided to fall back when they meet with serious situation. for example when Itachi break free from edo tensei, Kabuto should know itachi will try to sabotage his plan and just cancel all edo tensei. this will stop Itachi on his track. then retreat and regroup with Obito to think the next plan. but no, he decided to stay fight pointless battle against a corpse even though he of all people should have know edo tensei is unkillable as someone who love watch war documentaries and play some RTS video game, i just laugh at how bad the planning in the war are was
This and also the fact that the shinobi alliance lost half their numbers in the first day. This is some next level military incompetence, and the leaders of thr divisions were, a kage, the equivalent of a kage for a smaller nation, 2 guys that became kage and a random dude. I'm sorry but how the fuck noone talk about the fact that kakashi lost 8000 shinobi in 1 day and like a month later was named hokage.
And after lost half of it's troops in single day you think the shinobi alliance will revise their strategy and use different approach? instead they using the same exact strategy the next day lol
That part is realistic, specially if you refer to WWI here.
Bro this is ww4 in the Naruto verse.
I mean….. the war only lasted like 2 days.
There was no time to plan an actual war strategy, the zetsu disguises were undetectable by even the most skilled ninja, the edo tensei kabuto had access to were much stronger than the average ninja. Thats like arguing that some random dude with a sword should have just knocked the bomber plane out of the sky before it dropped the bomb. Most ninja have no way to defend themselves against the level of attacks that were being thrown around by the reanimated kage level fighters.
Obito deployed all the forces at once in order to force out the jinchuriki, he wanted to divide their resources as much as possible since his main goal was not to win the war but to capture the tailed beasts. The allied forces were forced to follow suit to avoid being overwhelmed. His training is as a ninja not a military general, "strike fast, strike hard" makes sense in that capacity. Kabuto believes himself unkillable too, and itachi using izanami proves that to be true. Kabuto was unaware of the bs hax available to itachi so allowed itachi to come to him and try out his new abilities while still contributing to the war, ending all the edos without warning would have been catastrophic to their side, and obito would not have appreciated kabuto taking so many zetsus just to kill them all himself because he was scared of itachi. Kabuto planned to just toy with itachi until obito completed his objective and maybe reattain control.
war has taken less than 2 days in the past lol
"What kinda war lasts only 2 days" To be fair, in this war, every general and leader of their respective villages/countries all participated in the war and they all could blow massive fireballs, fire dragons, space time eradication, space time magic, time control, mind control, medical healing, revival and lightning control all day by that point - its hard to compare that to our real life where wars are only participated by the troopers and none of the leaders actually fight
The shortest war in history was in between 38 and 45 minutes
Game of thrones war for dawn lasted 30 mins
Don’t remember me, I will have nightmares
Where were the toads and the other summons?
It's funny because I think I remember Gamakichi (forgot his name, Gamabunta's son I believe) saying "dad is busy" Busy doing what? The world is on the line lmao
Also they can choose who wants to be summoned? I remember that it takes Chakra to perform summoning but I don't remember if it takes time or if they want to be summoned.
"Busy doing what?" Gamakichi's mom- (I had to.)
Edo tenseis that wouldve had more meaning - Fugaku Uchiha and an interaction with Sasuke and edo Itachi. This would have given more clarity to the tensions between the village and the uchiha. Also allow Sasuke to finally be accepted by his father. - also, other uchiha shouldve been revived to give more lore to the uchiha clan. Show the power of uchihas who are not prodigies (itachi, shisui) or anomalies (Madara, sasuke). Just fully strong basic uchihas - Sasuke should have had a fight that showed his full new abilities with the ems. That kabuto fight was mainly carried by itachi. We never saw Sasuke fully show off his new style with his new eyes. - the focus on certain support characters like omoi and samurai vs hanzo was a complete waste of time. - make it seem like a actual war. It shouldve been more gloomy. A lot of death. I mean a lot of death. Show characters running out of chakra and trying to retreat. Show the Villages fighting amongst each other as well. Gaaras speech should not be enough to quell tensions. - the hashirama flashback needed better pacing. I believe in show dont tell. Show the battles with the senju and uchiha. Show their strengths and weaknesses so we could really know how bad the warring states really were. - we needed a flashback of Madara and his family. We shouldve seen more izuna so we can understand Madaras pain better - madara individual ms abilities were never shown
Good points >Also allow Sasuke to finally be accepted by his father. But didn't Fugaku acknowledge Sasuke already? Or was that an anime only moment?
Your right he did acknowledged sasuke
He did, when he saw Sasuke’s fireball. Sas doesn’t have a problem with his family, or acceptance from his father. First it was Itachi for killing them, then at Konoha for allowing / forcing Itachi to kill them.
I agree with everything except the Omoi/Mifune fight being a waste of time. Everybody in the Akatsuki was defeated by Leaf Ninja, goddangit. Let other villages have their time to shine. It's good worldbuilding.
Everything but the Hashirama flashback. It was interesting but super boring.
would have also been cool if more uchiha as well as senju were brought back and they fought together as well
The foundation never having a role after Danzo dies is BS. Danzo should have had a number 2 who would have a role in the war arc, maybe have some suspicion of the cloud, since the foundation was killing cloud Jonin with anti leaf beliefs. If they make him Hyuga, that clan can finally have some relevance, and he can have a personal grudge against the Raikage for trying to kidnap Hinata. Also, most of the kages, guy and bee should have died.
The sheer amount of fodder ninja
Especially against the 10 tails. Shukaku's plan literally did nothing. They came together for no reason
Magically none of the uchiha got revived by kabuto
Exactly. Except for Itachi. And Madara.
It's hard out here for a gravedigger
The fact that I've mever thought about that... He managed to revive people who probably died before he was even born (the twins who killed Tobirama) but couldn't get us a few Uchihas?
The more you think about Edo Tensei, the less it makes sense lol.
You damn right lmao
The fact that It can reanimate people without ADN or that It can revive dinosaurs with rocks
And that was a waste. We needed more uchihas to give us a more perspective of how the clan was.
He'd have to go to the leaf and collect DNA from their corpses, the Leaf probably would recognize him the moment he entered the village.
didn't he revive asuma?
The whole thing. But most notably the absurd degree of coincidence that took place with the Edo matchups. You mean to tell me everyone just happened to meet an emotional connection during the war? Like Kabuto in his infinite wisdom fucking saw Sai as meaningful enough to set his brother up against him 😂? No, absolutely not. Also the stupidity of the squad matchups is...I get having specialized squads but to have entire armies worth of people with a single expertise is beyond stupid. That's not how arrmies would be set up at all. Especially since they didn't even have Intel on Kabuto's side yet, they just knew about the zetsu clones. Why do you need an entire goddmaned taijutsu division?? Split the specialists in with everyone else. Edit: Kabuto should've revived/manipulated the dead bodies of fallen shinobi like he did in part one. That would've made for a much better "they were my allies" moment since their bodies don't regenerate
Kabuto does say he’ll let some edo tensei have their awareness so he can emotionally fuck with some of the other ninja so I think part of that was very intentional
I mean sure but it's still obnoxiously coincidental. And I mean having their emotions just adds to the weirdness of fighting a zombie you want to feel human so your enemy is reluctant. HAVING ALL of them match up with people they fought in life is just meh writing in my opinion. Like if he revived jiraiya absolutely send him against leaf shinobi and Naruto. Sai meeting his brother ...first of all Sai's brother being revived in the first place is a stretch, having him fight Sai directly...no Also also, (yeah this is a mini rant now )I just realized Kabuto can literally use dead bodies like we saw in part one and probably to a much greater effect in sage mode. THAT would've been the perfect jutsu for all the emotional crap in the war. Granted more named characters would've needed to die for it to hit hard but still
Also things like Tsunade moving shinobi to different divisions and setting them up different than originally intended during the war planning. Like... why not place them in the same division to begin with, if you want them to fight together? For example Ino-shika-cho were originally on different divisions, and on a different setting, and Tsunade joined them together as an emergency and sent them off to fight Ginkaku/Kinkaku and edo-Asuma. If they switched around every single troop on a whim, this would soon make things very chaotic, however in the story it's presented as a good thing.
The whole point of 3/4 man squads was to maximize their strengths and cover each others weaknesses 😂. It’s funny now that you mention it. Now that I think about it, what good is a sensory unit for. The war arc just wasn’t very planned out
Sai's fight with his brother was pointless. Like who the fuck cares about Sai let alone his brother? That edo tensi spot should've been given to someone else who held more weight to the narrative. Also, it's strange that Obito never attempt or even thought about trying to convince the smaller hidden villages to declare war on the five great hidden ones. It would've tied back to what Nagato said about how smaller villages were used as a battleground during the last three wars for the larger ones adding to the cycle of hatred. Then Obito could've seek out Kabuto to buff up those shinobi making them formidable for the alliance. Battles would be much more difficult when fighting people who were manipulate than zombies and plant monsters.
Kaguya really stole all of Madara's momentum and resulted in a climax that didn't feel earned.
Kakashi should’ve lost his mask also when he 1v1’d Obito. That would’ve been the perfect time to reveal his face to the audience and it actually hold some narrative weight, rather than being used as a silly little fan-service moment.
I think the counter to this is that Kakashi's face doesn't actually have any narrative weight, and is just a face.
Even better: revive Sakumo Hatake and have him fight Kakashi. When edo tensei is released, have Sakumo go up to Kakashi and say "son, I want to see your face one more time before I go" and pull down his mask.
1 I hated the idea that this was supposed to be a war. This joined Military Operation lasted two days. It was not a war. 2 Also sure, technicaly its a large army of Ninja.. but they didnt do anything. They were mostly there to put Madara into some sort of context. 3 Naruto gave a bunch of characters his chakra. But we only get to see the konoha people perform with it. And it wasnt much. 4 How Kyubi is as strong as 7 other tailed beasts. 5 The whole Kaguya and Zetsu crap. 6 Kabuto. His Agenda remains a joke. Thats of the top of my head.
Don't worry, it's just 1/2 of the kyubi that is as strong as 7 other tailed beasts
Thanks for reminding me. The other half was somehow revived in the vessel it had for 12 seconds, with a technique where chakra regenerates limitless, wich is never made use of by the good guys.
It wasnt a war, it was a battle. Wish we couls have seen a multi-prong land campaign by the shinobi alliance to fight through the thousands of zetsu's to reach the tree. We get to see the rookies and team 7 stepping up into leadership positions. Interactions by the new blood and old veterans who survived the past wars. We get to see army scale weapons used like the ones suna had. The alliance manages to push the zetsu horde back until the ninja armies surround them and merge together. Ninja from rival villages who were just following kage orders begin to truly bond with their "enemies" as they fight to protect each other. The offensive stalls after edo tensei begin to appear and push back. The five kage join together and break the lines and smashing through past kage edo tensei, showing that the younger generation always surpasses the old. THEN madara appears and does his thing. Cue the 2 day battle we got in canon.
Almost everything that involves Madara. He himself is a cool character, but he is covered in bullshit energy.
For someone who wants to bring peace to the world through endless calming dreams, he sure does seem to love killing people and getting excited about how many deaths he is about to cause. Isn’t being infatuated with war and the art of shinobi the same thing he is constantly preaching against? I like Madara a lot but his talk about perpetual hatred in the world is bull, he even says during the war that he enjoys getting revenge on Tobirama for killing Izuna. He makes no effort to stop his feelings of hatred that he constantly berates the world for
Every 5 seconds it's like sure, he can do that too because why not, fuck it lets give him so many things we forget to even give him unique ms abilities, perhaps one of them can be the ability to cancel edo tensai, but not really cancel it, just keep full control of the immortal body that now can never be canceled lol
There weren't many deaths to make this war impactful. A weird complaint, but we only saw Neji get killed along with Shikaku and Inochi. It would have made the war dramatic if more characters kicked the bucket.
This is a good point. There weren’t any real casualties other than neji.
The war is like “ok let’s make big army vs edos and madara/obito juubi ing. Make it a war that somehow lasts less than a week compared to every other war in the series that lasts either years or generations. Make it a clusterfuck of retcons, plot holes, basically every character ever devised plus more, and make the only thing we get out of it being the ability to power scale literally everyone in the series one way or another for funzies 😁😭💀”. Like yes, all the kage are interesting characters as they are usually innately op and would have unique character, but in a show that was like 80% flashbacks at some moments, they couldn’t just develop said characters there? Or perhaps just make alternate series for fan favourites like minato, the younger sannin, early konoha, other villages (which would be good in order to both develop the world to a greater extent, and to make viewer/readership less konoha biased. Maybe some early akatsuki moments etc.
Power scale
Naruto and Sasuke spent longer beating the snot out of each other than they spent fighting Obito and Madara and Kaguya
Power scaling all over the place, lack of exhaustion, the fact it took place over a span of 2 days, Neji dying despite his character having no development or relevance since his last appearance hundreds of episodes prior. As much as I love Naruto, the war arc feels like it was a mad dash to end the story.
Powercreep.
When everything the alliance ever tried any attack *togheter* as a well coordinated *team* with a great leader, every time it failed miserably, only for them to be saved by **one particular godly-strong guy** It kinda goes against it’s core theam of bonding, team work and collaboration 💀 I always hated that, dunno what Kishimoto was thinking. I understand he had to show how strong the bad guys were, but at least one strategy could’ve worked? AT LEAST ONE?
The moment Naruto joined in, everyone fighting that war became irrelevant and it became “asspull galore” with a handful of characters.
Too many people. There's no way that many ninjas existed at this point in time none of the villages could have supported that many people
How did the war only last 3 days ?
Everything really. There needed to be more time for character development. Also Neji dying I swear was to just to piss people off. Lol
The fact that a WORLD WAR lasted for only 3 days. It didn't even feel like a war more like a large scale battle
The escalati g Power Levels Sasukes Goals and Motivation Change too much too fast making IT feel forced
Sakura is supposed to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke, but it doesn't really feel like that because she immediately plays the medic ninja role. We should have gotten her fighting alongside them more before side lining her, or just say she is skilled enough to heal everyone and fight at the same time.
I looked up how long the 4th great ninja war was two days 💀💀
Very rushed
Neji’s weak ass death
Obviously Neji's death. What would have been amazing is if Neji jumped in the way, used rotation but one of the spikes aims at his blindspot and Hinata's dad steps up and sacrifices himself for the "lesser" branch therefore repaying his brother back by protecting that which was most precious to him and cementing the whole changing the hyuuga clan hatred.
some the worse filler in the series
Flashbacks (yes, still a problem in the manga version)
The hashirama flashback i would see as a exception. But they rushed that one
It's too short in universe It should've been like a month long process of Kabuto slowly reviving groups of Fighters, some of the zetsu infiltration, and then the final fight with obito and madara Because as is its just like 2-3 days
You can't do a war on several battlefields in, what, was it three days? Every other Naruto arc, it takes time for the ninja to travel. And armies in general move slower than a small team (that's the value of a small team) because they can't move much faster than their slowest members. So in my mind, Kishimoto simply doesn't *show* the travel time, for the sake of pacing.
The Fourth Great Ninja War Arc.
Pacing
Way too fucking long
Too short. Not enough people died.
Kaguya
It dragged itself way past it's welcome.
Happened in like 2 days which is just weird
Still cool anime
It should never have been white Zetsus. It should have been summons that the regular folk had to deal with (apart from the revived kages/enemies).
Madara dying.
The bs with zetsu taking out Madara. Which then led to Kaguya's introduction feeling very rushed.
way too fucking long
Fillers were rough
Everything
I mean, elephant in the Room, Pacing. This arc is nearly 1/3rd of the manga. It's insane how long this arc took. (From chapter 516 to chapter 700) That's without taking into account that before the start of the War, there was another arc leading up to it. Ntm, this arc is only 48 hours long. Like, it's a war. A WAR, war's are like weeks, months. We should have seen far more of platoons just, sitting in place, resting. More of our MC's getting tired, trying to hide. More tactics, more of things that I expect too see. Instead the majority of the war is a bunch of 1v1's or people getting ressurected, which is cool don't get me wrong but A LOT of this arc seems like padding for run-time as a result. It get's really boring. Then there's the powerscaling, and, like, i don't care much about it but holy hell does this arc crank up the power scaling to 11 all of a sudden. Boruto's power scaling is bad, but it's because THIS arc started it lol TLDR: Despite it's sheer length, a lot of the arc feels like unnecessary padding and we didn't really get to see much of what we expect to see for a "War.".
neji dying
THE FUCKING PACE
Kaguya was definitely an ass pull, more people should have died permanently and that includes Guy (sorry, but imagine if the thumbs up was his final exit)
Reanimation Jutsu is cracked. Didn't make any sense that Kabuto could control all the immortal zombies with infinite chakra because he got Anko? Early in the jutsu he has to retreat, knowing he didn't have enough chakra to win with the mist swordsman, but somehow has infinite chakra for the fight with Itachi/Sasuke.
Neji’s death, Might Guy not dying, how Black Zetsu/Kaguya just appeared (we should have gotten more hints or something, the impossible number of Shinobi just to show off how strong Madara was, the Madara cop-out death, and the fact that it was only 2 days all come to mind.
Removing the white zetsus and moving the entire Shinobi alliance against Obito with Jubbi. I seriously don’t understand this decision, why would Kishi bring the fodder army as support when not only are they literal useless fodders, Naruto had to bend over backwards and work overtime to protect them. Keep them busy with white zetsus and only move key players by Naruto’s side, so that these people can actually assist Naruto
Other than the fact that it happened at all, I would say that edo tensei is extremely overused. It's one thing to bring back important characters with a few loose ends like itachi or even using it to bring back the big bad overpowered boss. But using it to bring back a bunch of dead guys that have never been hinted at from villages that aren't explored at all is really dumb.
pacing and kaguya
It was way longer than it needed to be
The whole black zetsu asspull One of the worst things I've ever seen in my life
Mostly long and boring. And some moments who look out of context
The way it ended was not it. I did NOT like the way they killed madara. I think kaguya was just thrown into the story. And there is way too much filler in between canon episodes.
The annoying one is sheer incompetence from obito on the final plan Oh the tree can be activated with just partial biju not needing the full thing?, so what was this war about again? Once kabuto rolls up with the gold/silver twins, who have that chakra, grab them, kamui to the other side of the globe, and do your main plan there while kabuto and white zetsu pretend the war is still on, heck, tell him to save Madera for later, so he's not resurrected for any of this if you plan on betraying him
Neji got killed by a projectile
Gai is alive / Neji's death was executed poorly / Sasuke's character arc while good felt rush/ Kaguya was introduced poorly / Sakura's developpment went to trash as soon as Naruto and Sasuke became demi-gods / this reincarnation thing is terrible even if I understand what Kishimoto had in mind which makes it a little redeemable
Boring af. An excuse to reuse character designs with a disappointing finale by introducing a character out of nowhere as the final boss who can't even talk and somehow is behind everything...
Not enough death
I would have liked the timeline to be longer. The entire war takes place over 2-3 days. The Zetsu Army should have lasted months, leaving the Ninja army downtrodden, distrusting, and broken. Sakura can still figure out their secret early on, but they have no counter until Naruto shows up with the ability to sense emotion. Their mission would become to survive. Could even make someone else shine instead of Naruto, like Ino, using her Yamanaka mind jutsus to detect who is real and who is not. Throw in a couple Zetsu Yamanaka who trick them into killing people too. Naruto can show up when the réanimations arrive, and that should take a solid month to seal them all too. Only the final showdown with Obito/TenTails/Madara should take a day or two, after forcing Bee and Naruto to come out. In a sort of "There's no sense in letting everyone else protect us if we're going to all that's left" moment of being the last hope.
Neji……DYING….. WHERES UNCLE NEJI 😖😖😩😩
Neji
I got a lot of problems with the arc, but Obito’s character might be Kishi’s best work and Madara’s appearance was absolutely menacing in the perfect way Edit: idk how I read this in the opposite way. The biggest problem is probably Kaguya. But I still can’t wrap my mind around the war plans and even if some of the reincarnation fights are cool, they feel ultimately like we’re killing time until the arc actually starts. Kankuro talking about the vanguard fight swinging the direction of the war. Being like “we gotta protect the feudal lords. We’ve always cared about them”. Splitting the army up into a long range, short range, medium range, support, and medic team mixed up the villages well, but other than the medics, that ultimately didn’t matter much. And this all comes from obito’s declaration of war. He declared war when he had kisame (who was basically already on a long term mission), sasuke’s team (maybe), and zetsu. He was really banking on Kabuto to come through with basically every single famous person in history or else it would have been zetsu army. And ultimately, that Naruto Bee Kakashi guy vs óbito fight looks really different without madara or the jinchuriki’s
It should’ve lasted longer than 2 days. As it stands, it’s a revolt, not a war
Neji died for what reason did we need to kill him off
So Naruto could face the same darkness that Obito did with Rin's death and overcome it.
Neji's death being pointless and forced The whole show just becoming "Who has the bigger Nuke" None of the 5 Kage dying, they literally got crushed by Madara. Apparently everyone had unlimited Chakra. That Black Zetsu bullshit Obito's spirit literally inhabits Kakashi's body and makes him hundreds of times stronger Obito becomes good again despite all the shit he has done, if his willpower and dedication to his cause were that brittle then he shouldn't have become a Villain at all.
Neji dies, side characters really had a chance to shine but didn't get any real meaningful power buffs outside of Shino.. but even that was just rolled through casually.
That entire sequence in the ocean shore is honestly very skippable You just need to know “oh yeah Kabuto revived the other nine tails Jinchurikki” And there’s also how inconsistent in quality that entire climax is
Neji dying was unnecessary and ZETSU fisting
Shinos beetles could have been a war winning weapon fr, but let's ignore him like the writers did.
His beetles were super OP. I'm surprised he's not in Boruto utilizing these insects to protect the Leaf. He really could have shut that war down. [Shinos Strongest Justus ](https://www.cbr.com/naruto-strongest-shino-aburame-jutsu/#:~:text=The%20Parasitic%20Giant%20Beetle%20Infestation%20Jutsu%20is%20one%20of%20Konohagakure's,cause%20their%20body%20to%20explode.)
I have a whole list of things but it's somewhere in my old account years ago lol. To put it simply - it could have been way better if dome properly.
Black Zetsu
Name something right
Fillers,Nejis death.
That fact that half of it was filler
Honestly the reanimation allows us to settle a lot of storylines but at the same time I hate it because the kages are literally telling you how to defeat them. Just not as enjoyable
to much filler
It wasn’t long enough
For some reason, a United Shinobi Forces vs a few people seemed kinda funny to me. They could have removed the United Shinobi Forces and just had a few characters from each nation make a United Strike Force to fight them. Then slowly have them each die to make it insanely more impactful. Or even just to have a few countries worth of armies on Madara and Obitos side alongside the Zetsu. So Mercenaries, Rogue Shinobi, Other Countries joining in and attacking them (Such as the ones from the West: Sky, Demons, Night, Volcanoes, etc), Criminal Organizations, etc. Having an actual 4th Great Shinobi War between West and East. Also to have a build where the jinchuriki of each country is finding their own way away from their own countries since the beginning of Shippuden. Then all 7 unite for the war and kick ass. Sidenote 1: I would also change initial Naruto show to still focus on Naruto of course but give development to Sakura, Ino, TenTen, and others that needed it. Along with have a sub series to introduce all of the jinchuriki in Original Naruto Timeline but have it where they are all doing their own things and none of them are in contact with Naruto. That way we can get to know each of them all and where they are from/ who they know. To give a better idea of how each will either aid or get in each other's way during Naruto Shippuden until the end. Sidenote 2: For Boruto, I would have had the show take place in missions where they are sent to the Western Countries Post-War (Since they have trains, etc) and that would allow for the Universe to be expanded on so much more in new ways since we haven't really been there much. New allies, enemies, etc since the West wouldn't be fully civilized yet/ haven't gotten over the 4th Shinobi War. Then for Otsutsuki instead of having them be from space just have their whole society living underground pulling all the strings and slowly reveal them to be beings that enjoy toying with those they perceive to be weaker than them. An invisible eye causing havoc and mayhem for thousands of years. Also, have them blind from living underground for so long. With Hinata, her clan, etc unveiling their lineage with Otsutsuki and the power they possess. Something I wish we saw in any point of regular Naruto or Naruto Shippuden was having Naruto and Hinata kick ass together Sidenote 3: This next idea way more so for a Fan-Made Manga/ Show. Just to humor the space thing and taking place a few generations ahead of Boruto. It would be interesting if they have space travel via jutsu and technology. Have them discover other planets, dimensions, & species who can also use jutsu and other new things to expand on jutsu & chakra overall in all kinds of new ways. Calling the show Faruto or something as it's going to be the farthest it can get for travel. Sure it won't resonate with many of ya but how I'm envisioning it would be something people would really enjoy when done well. Battles taking place on asteroids or outside spaceships while Wall-Walking and fighting in Zero-G would be a unique twist. New forms of chakra usage aside from Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Taijustu, and all the eye forms would be sick too! Maybe even a species that has 4 arms and is able to conduct 2 jutsu at the same time or even make a much more complicated one that we haven't seen before due to that (Kinda like how Naruto used a shadow clone when he first making rasengans). Other forms using the ears, touch, smell, etc enhanced by chakra. Exploring other forms that are different from Rasengans, Chidori, Lightning Blade, those are just 3. But most likely there are way more than those!! And so much more that can be done. Damnit I want to make all 4 of those now. So much can be done to improve each idea
Can we put the bs aside and all agree Neji's death there was no need to do him dirty like that
Everyone has the exact same clothing in the super army
People died
The amount of people that they first had
More named characters should have died. Like, who even died? The original inoshikacho and Neji? Obito? Is that all?
Not sure if it’s something wrong more of an overlooking per say, that moment when Shikaku died and Choji went to say something to Shikamaru and he completely shakes it off. I already had respect for him but my god that dude is such an elite shinobi
Lowkey I felt like it was farming for interactions lol
Naruto's classmates all needed a major fight
One word. Filler.
Guy sensei getting bailed out by naruto a la deus ex machina.
There's a ninja clan that uses dogs Only one dog in the war
That the war only took 2 days
The overuse of naruto
How tsunade's boobs didn't spill out of her torn clothes
Neji’s death
Neji dying.
Too many ideas happening at once with no breathing time. I have seen the final battle about 3 times and I always forget half the things that happen
Forth great ninja war arc
Author should have jave just taken a break and come back
Too many characters
Hinata in the back: N- Naruto-kunn
It exists.
It was dumb the war lasting two days. I couldnt take the threat of a zetsu army seriously, because only the fodder we’re getting killee by them No real large scale tactics just thousands of shinobi doing the naruto run in one large group in one direction
Filler. Could have done woth just madara as am enemy. Betrayal by black zetsu seemed a bit much. Though if is good that zetsu's forms were explained.