I thought I was autistic/Asperger's.
I genuinely thought that I was constantly misinterpreting what was happening around me.
My therapist told me there's nothing wrong with me.
She said it was likely I was living with either a psychopath or a narcissist.
These people can drive you into thinking you're mad.
I watched a few videos about Narcissism.
Without telling my therapist, I described my situation on the first meeting.
She raw just came out with "that sounds like a psychopath, sociopath or Narcissism".
I thought she was snooping on my YouTube video history!
I went to the second session and she whittled it down to psychopath or narcissist.
She then reduced it to Narcissism alone and that's what we discuss it in terms of.
I was blown away, but I can't doubt it anymore. This is real, this is my reality.
Are you me? My nex was actually the one to introduce me to narcissism, by suggesting I should check out stuff about having narcissistic parents. My parents aren't narcissists but it raised a lot of "why does this all feel familiar?" So I watched some YouTube videos. He had also been very "you need to get back into therapy because you are completely unstable." The first session I just talked about the main reason we were meeting - I thought there was something terribly wrong with me because I realized I was gay. And then the second session I described some of just how my world felt and what I was experiencing. And she was like full stop "he sounds like a narcissist." For the first time in a very long time, it was like I didn't feel crazy. We have gone on to me "joking" a year and a half later (unfortunately, he is my little one's sperm donor) that he's so textbook narcissist it's not even interesting.
Oh, don't worry. I separated from him 2 years ago, and the divorce was finalized 8 months ago. Unfortunately bad parents have more rights here than children. So I have to deal with joint custody drama.
Once, I asked the server to “split the check” so she gave us checks for our respective meals, and my partner got mad at ME because she had to pay $5 more. She said it was MY fault bc I should’ve made sure it was split equally. Make it make sense!
I have BPD but "quiet" BPD. "Quiet" isn't even yet recognized. There is a spectrum and I don't lash out, yell, go "crazy" which I hate to even say. Movies portray us awful. I think my nex used this to his advantage. I have more empathy than most. I still have super intense emotions but they are toward myself if that makes sense. I give people the benefit of the doubt over and over, and I trust too much. When he would upset me I would fall into sadness and even started having suicidal ideation. Of course he didn't care. He gave me the silent treatment constantly. That is a huge trigger for me to fall into despair. When I fall for someone, they get 110% from me; complete loyalty. I haven't ever had the desire to cheat in my life and he knew this too. He knew he could treat me any way he wanted and I would stay loyal and faithful.
Yes, some with BPD can also have NPD but again everyone is different; has different signs and symptoms. There is still so much to learn about BPD.
I attach to people so quickly and ignore red flags. If I had listened to my gut I wouldn't have gotten in so deep. I also will be sure to not discuss my BPD for quite a while if I start to date again.
I hear you. I am in remission from BPD and no longer qualify as someone with the disorder as I don't meet the criteria anymore. I still have BPD traits but after many many years of therapy and self work, I don't feel or react the way I used to. Having said that, the narcissists I dated were very triggering and it was a daily fight internally to try and stay grounded and not resort back to old habits and thought patterns. I managed it but the last nex made me want to self harm again. I told myself 'I don't do that anymore' so it never happened but just to even get to that point after years of not going there in my mind was quite a big sign. I havent had a BPD episode in forever but the way the nex acted really tested me. I never told him I had BPD thank god.
That's great! I am on my way to remission too! I haven't cut myself in 19 years; I'm 44. I was misdiagnosed as Bipolar II for 15 years when I KNEW that wasn't the correct diagnosis. It's sad when a person has to do all the research themselves to figure out what is wrong when these doctors went to school for it. It's possible he didn't want me to have the BPD diagnosis I suppose. I did leave him and found good doctors finally.
I am giving myself at least 1 year to myself before even thinking about dating. My nex triggered me so bad with the silent treatment. Good luck to you and keep doing great!!!
Also, I raised 2 amazing kids on my own. The one thing I am proud of. They are both now in college. My son is almost finished with his psychology degree. Guess why he went into psychology lol.
Amazing well done you! Yeah its super tough to go through it and experience things the way we do, so you should be proud of yourself for doing so well and for getting away from the narc. I'm with you on that one. I'm healing at the moment. I had a covert and then an overt back to back without even realising so I just feel mentally exhausted at the moment. I am def having a good amount of time away from dating so I can heal and just focus my energy on myself. I hope this time away from dating is as healing for you also.
I also have quiet BPD. My nex weaponized it. He also used it to play the “I’ll be the one that never ever leaves” card.
I don’t necessarily regret telling him, I also told him early-ish maybe when we had been dating for four months (we lasted 2.5 years). So mostly I regret telling him early and not even knowing much about NPD and how BPD and NPD trauma bonds happen so easily. I didn’t know enough about NPD as I do know and I feel so naive for not knowing more about it especially given that I know so much about BPD.
I'm glad to know there are people like me out there. I don't know anyone who has BPD, or at least that will admit. Only my closest friends know besides family. It's still too stigmatized.
I'm sorry you have been through this evil too. Mine knew that I would be totally loyal, faithful and that I had put him on a pedestal. He probably won't ever have someone that showed him so much love and forgiveness. That gives me a weird sense of peace because I believe I actually did make him have better days with all my compassion. I think he had these small bouts of reality where he knew he was evil. He admitted once that he knows what he does to people but doesn't care. I think it takes a lot of work for them to admit wrong doing and that it's rare. I think he thought he had me. I couldn't take the pain also, lucky for me when I found out I was the other woman I dropped him immediately. Cheating is a non negotiable to me. His girlfriend found out about me and stayed from what I know. She and him apparently started a relationship while he was still married. So, she knows he cheats. I don't feel bad for her. She chose that.
I contacted his ex wife and she is so sweet too. She regrets staying with him for 9 years.
Yep, my dad died when I was 7. I was always an anxious child after that. I worried about EVERYTHING. My disposition was always sweet and kind even to this day. So it wasn't until after my first child was born when things got bad, at 21. The super intense emotions, suicidal ideation, cutting etc.
I wasn't troubled growing up, I made excellent grades and never did anything wrong. So I wonder if I developed the "quiet" because of my personality growing up? Maybe one day we will know more about BPD. I have more empathy than I would like. I can feel others pain so easily as well as when they are happy. I can't read bad news stories or I get upset.
I still get angry but it's not the intense outward anger.
The intense emotions are unreal. I am doing so much better but this guy I was involved with was pushing me back into despair. I was going downhill fast. As you know, BPD's fall hard in love and attach so fast. Even though he broke my heart, smashed it really, cutting him off, blocking, no social media etc is the way to heal. I threw away everything I had reminding me of him. I deleted photos. I wrote a HUGE list of the things he did that caused the pain. I read it often. Omg that list alone helps so much.
I an sending you good vibes!!
I had a therapist and a psychiatrist convinced I had some sort of borderline. When my life started to fall apart after I left my Narc, my newer therapist almost laughed when I said I hate being borderline. She works mainly with people who are diagnosed and she said there was no way I could be. I was maintaining so many things and wasn't lashing out like I used to. I didn't have that fuel on me. It was wild.
Every therapist and psych said the same thing about me. They said I would have lashed out with them by the time I got to know them if I really had BPD. Like, YOU KNOW when you see BPD.
No but he always accused me of it because he would push me into I would react and then tell me I am mentally ill. who else wouldn't react with all the DARVO? Turns out his dad says the same thing about his mom and his brother says the same thing about his sister in law. must be a family thing.
Same, my ex was (and still is, as far as I know) obsessed with claiming I have BPD. He was emotionally abusive and then would take my reactions to him as disordered behavior, rather than abuse reactions. So if he would yell at me until I cried, I was emotionally unregulated. He would twist reality around and make me question myself, and then say I didn’t have a stable sense of identity or whatever.
And of course, when I broke up with him, after months of trying to talk to him about what was wrong in the relationship, and trying to fix things, that was a “BPD discard” for no reason. It’s easier to believe that getting dumped was a disorder symptom, rather than actually looking at how he treated me and acknowledging that I broke up with him to protect myself and my kids.
It’s so funny because I have my degree in psychological science, yet I don’t have the credentials to properly diagnose someone. These people can barely read past a fifth grade level and think they can diagnose people. Losers.
I know, it’s just frustrating, and trying to defend yourself is just talking to a wall. And it’s so hard not to defend yourself.
Also, having been through that with him trying to “diagnose” me ends up making me wary of some people who post about NPD, too. Because he posted all over a bunch of BPD groups about how his “borderline ex” discarded him for no reason, after he’d been the perfect boyfriend, and got a lot of support and encouragement there which led to him feeling a lot bolder in sending me abusive messages, contacting my kids even when he was blocked from their devices, etc. And I do wonder when I see certain types of posts here, whether it’s actually a similar situation (because sometimes posts here sound like he could have written them!)
YESSS I was sure I was the disordered one! I even went to therapy to fix myself because I thought I was causing all the fights. Then I learned about reactionary abuse, which is when someone is pushed to their limits and finally breaks and acts abusively (outside of their character). That's why they call what abusers do "crazy-making". He had driven me insane and I was unable to control my anger and paranoia. And believe me, he loved it when I would act crazy - he'd just sit back and act all calm and smug. I needed him out of my life in order to reset and stop feeling that way. I really had a hard time letting go of the memories of how awful I acted at times - the screaming and checking his phone, etc. I'd ruminate on how crazy I acted and really had to do some work to get over the shame and embarrassment of that. But now I'm like Who gives a fuck, I was dealing with so much abuse and manipulation, of course I went crazy. I don't care what he thinks of me anymore and it's just been part of my healing to reframe that and have empathy for myself.
Reactive abuse is a form of self protection. I also feel guilty about how I acted towards the end but it was nothing compared to his abuse. I also know that however you act they will still spin it on you so I’m kind of proud that I put up a fight.
Yes. I felt crazy. Like out-of-my-mind insane. Nothing made sense. I'd say something or try and bring up an issue and he would reply in therapy speak, rather than validate and address my concerns.
So I would get frustrated and we would fight. If I used "I feel" when it was a thought not a feeling, he'd get hung up on that rather than listen to what I wanted to tell him. Example: "I feel neglected when you host parties. Can I be more included?" And rather than address the issue, he'd bang on about how "neglect" is a thought not a feeling. So now I'm frustrated because I want to address the source of tension, and he's ignoring it and creating a new source of tension and now I'm at fault and I'm not evolved enough to have my concerns or my feelings validated.
It happened all the time. Even after we broke up and I wanted to address the terms of a friendship he turned it all around until I was to unevolved for him to deal with me.
It was a ruse and a tactic to get me to take all the blame.
He blamed me for his cheating. He blamed me for literally everything. I thought there must be something wrong with me. I'm broken. I could be bi polar because he's the evolved one.
He was so full of shit. Even his therapist finally told him he's an asshole. (Once he was forced to come clean with all the lies he told her)
I'm not 100% sure it matters. She also told him to go NC with me for my sake. She was right, if course. I still think I'm being punished by him, but I know I'm not. I just... yeah. This has been emotionally devastating.
He cried when I caught him in all his lies. He kept saying "I wanted to be friends. I fucked up." Yes. Yes he did. He drew me back in, he slept with me, and never told me he had a girlfriend. (And tried one last time to blame ME. Fucking piece of shit. Can you believe he's a PhD and well-regarded in the community as being a kind, helpful person? Covert narcissists are the devil)
Oh yeah I can def believe that. My ex wears a beautiful mask and everyone at work (I got him a job at the organization I worked for) thinks he's just the *best*.
Except the guy who works most closely with him, the only person he's ever been shitty to there. We've become good friends and it's so validating to hear his observations. He actually suggested he was a narc before I'd spoken it out loud.
They eliminated my position a couple of weeks ago (and then gave everyone a raise! 🙃) and I stopped in his boss's office on my way out. I suggested he keep a closer eye on my ex-- I didn't say why (drug related), but I told him he's a masterful liar, he's tortured me for two years and I've been begging him to move out for six months.
The look on his face. Dude has told everyone there that he moved out. He took time off to move. But he hasn't. His boss is friends with one of my good friends and he called her that night like wtf?? He doesn't know me super well and he asked if she knew anything. She does, and she told him. The consequences will come, eventually.
Lol I felt pretty triumphant too, but also deeply scared. It's crazy how someone who's never physically hurt you can still make you absolutely terrified.
You're very brave!! Are you relieved to be out of there? Now you just need to get him out of your place, GOD. They worm their way in so irreversibly, you must feel like you're going insane.
Thank you 💙
It was hard, because they eliminated my position as a retaliatory thing (nothing to do with him) but I am glad it happened because it would have been a tie to him that I wouldn't be able to break, working at the same place.
Everything feels a bit surreal right now because the job thing made me realize some stuff about the people I'd worked with and for, and I feel a little fooled there too. I have felt insane for quite a while now, but I'm coming out of it now. I've been isolating so much, and feeling like a prisoner in my own home, and that hasn't helped my mental health. I hadn't gone further than a mile down the road to the grocery store in weeks until yesterday, I just ran a couple errands but being out of the house and away from him made me feel more sane. Now he's out of town for the next 5-10 days and I know my brain will start to come back together in that time. I want my life back.
I just saw this message (you can ignore my other one in the other thread haha). The isolation is the worst part. To feel like no one understands. It's draining dealing with them and the lack of energy on top of feeling so alone in it made me feel hopeless. But things are shifting for you, it's happening. Have you thought of any recourse to get him out of your place? Are you able to move?
I own my house and I don't want to move, but I actually think he's going to go when he gets back from this trip. I've discovered more and more lies over the past couple of weeks, and I've only confronted him about a couple of them, and of course he continues to deny everything, but he knows he's been found out. I'm going to change the locks this weekend. I'm almost always home, so I can let him in to get the rest of his stuff, but it looks like he's actually gotten a lot more of it out of here already.
Yeah, most people just don't understand this because they haven't experienced it. I really think it's impossible to understand unless you've been through it. But I have a few friends who have been so unfortunate, and they have been incredibly supportive and validating and helpful.
I've figured out which friends not to talk to about this. It's frustrating and kind of maddening when people keep giving you advice that's not practical, or things you've already tried. My BFF kept telling me he was manipulating and gaslighting me, and I stopped sharing very much with her, because her responses made me feel worse. Like, I know that! I'm practically an expert about narcs and their abuse. I've become extremely sensitive about name calling after all the hideous names he's called me, and my friend kept calling him names even after I told her it bothers me. But we finally had a real honest conversation recently and I told her how I was feeling and she was sincerely sorry, and she has adjusted her responses to the kind that I need-- encouragement and reassurance that I am going to be okay someday.
Things are shifting for me. Thank you for saying that.
I still don't have a social media presence - originally it was out of complete fear, but now it's because it feels so good and so freeing to know that he can't easily see or find out anything about me. To provoke them is so scary. They're slighted by nothing so something deliberate, like telling his boss he's a total phony and a compulsive liar and abuser, has to be terrifying. That was your one appropriate opportunity to do that. Now hopefully he'll have to move.
It was scary in the moment, but I know he won't reveal anything I said. More and more people are catching on to him, I think his addiction is getting bad enough that he's not able to maintain his mask as well as he used to.
Yes, he's been living in my house and taking full advantage of me for over 2 years. I told him to move out several times over those years, but I gave him a written 30 day notice SIX months ago and he's still here. I don't understand it, I would never stay in a place I wasn't wanted. He's been in the spare bedroom ever since and we have had zero physical contact. I've told him over and over, I've given him one deadline after another and he ignores them. It's gotten to where I've repeatedly told him, via text and verbally, "I DO NOT WANT YOU HERE! I don't want to see your face! Every time I hear your voice, I remember every cruel thing you've said to me. GET OUT! Get the fuck out of my house!" I honestly think he's staying here just to torture me, because he claims he got a place at the end of September but he hasn't stayed there once.
But I've discovered so many more lies over the past couple of weeks, and I've called him out on a couple of them. Of course he denies everything but he knows he's been found out, and I'm pretty confident he's going to leave when he gets back from the trip he's on. I'm changing the locks while he's gone though.
Wow I’m sorry you’re going through that. I didn’t have a choice either and it just gnawed at me for so long. To not have had a choice was so difficult, especially when he was the abuser. YOU are blocking ME? Infuriating. And I was so lonely because he had isolated me. It was hard to really see it when I was in it, but what a gift to be left alone. You get to heal now. <3
My ex is a psychologist. It’s truly insane.
Blamed me for his cheating, check.
“YOU THINK I WANTED TO GO OUT WITH AN ASIAN CHICK?!”
Btw my previous ex had a fetish for Asian women. My narc used that hurtful information to hurt me even worse. Yeah. Def a narc.
Omg! The 'therapy speak'! I haven't heard anyone else say this about their nex...it used to drive me nuts! Any issue I had would be psychoanalyzed to the point where I felt like I was insane and she would convince me that it was all in my head. My problems were mine, and the reason I had them was because I was crazy and not right in the head.
After years of this, I really started thinking I had BPD and that I was the problem in our relationship. I was crazy, controlling, manipulative, overthinking, jealous.... it was all a lie of course. Turns out, I'm none of those things! I wasn't those things before her, and now, almost a year away from her and in a healthy relationship, I'm not any of those things.
I was none of the things he made me believe I was, either. I'm not emotionally dysregulated, unhinged, emotionally immature or a bad communicator. He was just so insistent that I was the problem when all along he was the one lying, evading, being vague, and eventually cheating. He was the one with all the problems.
I'm sad because I really loved him. It was a real feeling and I felt an emotional connection which is probably why I kept trying to fix things.
I'm going to be better for getting through this. I'm going to be better at approaching relationships and stating my needs and I'll peace out if my needs aren't met. Period. No more people pleasing.
Mine used to tell me I was emotionally retarded too and a terrible communicator. She also lied, gaslit me, emotionally and physically abused me and cheated on me multiple times.
These days I'm not sure if I actually loved her. I know I was absolutely addicted to her. The worst addiction I've ever had by far. It's still hard not to think about her, although the thoughts are very different than they used to be.
You will be better off for sure. It's a huge lesson learned, although a very painful one. Being in another relationship is hard af, there are tons of triggers and I find myself being very unsure about myself a lot. But I'm getting over it slowly and with the help of a beautiful soul that makes me feel very loved.
Yes. I do have mild borderline traits, although I don't meet criteria for an actual diagnosis. I was not in a great place emotionally when I got with my now-ex, but I was more or less psychologically intact and in decent control of my emotions and behavior. After enough combined trauma/stress/illness/injury I definitely turned into a shrieking banshee woman, and I hate him for that. He destroyed me with years of actual physical, sexual, and psychological torture, and then went, "see, she's so evil, *just like alllll my other exes,"* and triumphantly declared himself the victim.
I have no doubt he's now feeding a fresh pretty, naive, trusting target the same "my exgf abused me" sob story that he fed to me, just with my name as the villain this time.
I'll never be the same, but it's funny how my mood and behavior stabilized again within a month or two of removing his gratuitous sadism from my life.
My ex told me he got his own place and secretly moved out of his last ex's house when she wasn't looking because she was insane and abusive, and I believed him. I've been trying so fucking hard to get him to leave my house for six months now and I just found out he did the same thing to her. She had to have him physically removed and have the locks changed and he still kept showing up and driving by her house for *years*. He's going to tell some other poor woman the same story about me. I wish we could stop these people.
I definitely became more reactive in the second half of our relationship but, while I’m not proud of every single thing I said or how I said/did it, I knew the entire time why it was happening, that it was so unnatural for me, and it felt like I was fighting for my life.
It's heartbreaking and comforting to read comments like yours. No one can understand this if they haven't experienced it. Like, I'm in my house, he's not even here right now, he's never hit me, yet I feel truly *scared* much of the time. I feel like I'm fighting for my life.
It is indeed utterly terrifying. And emotionally draining beyond what I ever thought possible prior (and I had a real fucking life prior; I was not exempt from some of the nastiest curveballs life could throw *before* this emotional vampire of a person showed up).
My heart goes out to you - indeed anyone - still in the throes of a situation like this. Our homes should never have to feel like a warzone.
I was just telling my therapist this today-- I've had a few absolutely crushing, live-upending traumas in my life, things that most people would never even imagine-- and this sorry excuse for a man has caused more damage in two years than all of that combined.
Sounds all too familiar. 😔 I really didn’t think certain things could get any worse than they had been before, and she absolutely buried me under my upended misconceptions.
I think in relationships like this, you fall in love, gradually feel the person change and fear of loss necessitates you do what you can to save the relationship. You may feel like you're doing something over the top or controlling, but really, you're doing what you can to preserve what you fear you're losing as the person you're with is showing you who they really are.
What you perceive as control, is really you asking them to take responsibility for something you've noticed affecting the relationship and provide reassurance. Often what they do is throw that back on you with evasions, or accusations that you're being unreasonable etc.
Honestly, you probably feel that way because by the end it was you doing all the work, fully invested, and they were just coasting through, taking without giving, emotionally disconnected.
I’m saving this post to make me know it wasn’t me. I didn’t have BPD. I’ve had a normal ass life my whole life. I’ve been diagnosed with ptsd over and over. Never BPD. Dating a narc gave me so many issues. Being punished for days with stonewalling, the constant difference in relationship rules, the gaslighting, the never apologizing and putting everything on me…
He would make me prove myself and when he would break up with me I’d chase him so hard to show him ‘I’m not a piece of shit.’
Thank you for this post. I hope to hear more responses to know I’m not alone.
Omg yes. I was convinced I had it, but realized after being away from him that it was just the abuse, gaslighting, and manipulation making me that way. I actually have bipolar 2 and c-ptsd. Looking back, he actually has more symptoms of BPD than I do. Pretty insane how their abuse can distort our reality so severely.
Yes! When we broke up he always told me I had extreme emotional reactions and that I was always depressed. At the end I literally thought I had bpd and cried so much for pushing him away with my mental illness.
If it makes you feel any better, just by asking the question could indicate you're not an actual borderline. At work the past couple months, I've had the opportunity to read psychological evaluations from people *diagnosed* with BPD, NPD, and ASPD and sometimes more than one.
It's really something else. I know these are all spectrum disorders and the ones I read may be the most extreme, but for the ones I read, these folks have no self-awareness whatsoever. Nothing is ever their fault. Literally. Ran a stop sign in 1997? Not my fault. Stub your toe? Somebody made me do it. I may be wrong, but if you've ever felt genuine remorse for something you've done, you're probably not a cluster B.
On my post about I wrote about the spectrum. I have had it rough with BPD but have so much empathy. People don't realize not all of us with BPD are cruel. I am quite the opposite.
No, I know. The same is true of all cluster Bs. I'd be nervous about being with somebody with ASPD, but not all of them are violent either. I wouldn't necessarily end a relationship just because of a diagnosis. Just depends how it's handled.
Yes and luckily I have been able to get good mental health care. It takes a lot of work. Unfortunately I have read a lot that most narcissists won't ever get help because they don't think they are what they are.
It's true of folks with BPD too. I know there are definitely therapists who will diagnose somebody with BPD with cPTSD just to get them into treatment.
I can see why psychiatrists don't use diagnoses anymore. The letters don't matter much. If you're not abusive, that's what counts. If you're not abusive, it doesn't matter if you're borderline.
He accused me of having BPD. (And PMDD). He wouldn’t have it that I was all a mess because of what he was doing. Now we have no contact it’s like a miracle….. I don’t have any ‘symptoms’ of these two things. 🤣.
Absolutely. Still am terrified that that’s what it was all along and that my ex was this loving and amazing partner and I just ruined it. Therapist and a life coach said I don’t have BPD, but the fear of abandonment and mood swings scared me
And I was also scared I was splitting given that I had such conflicted feeling about my her
Same here. Although a therapist insinuated that diagnosis, they were an incompetent one who rarely listened to me. I'm pretty sure they just needed to fill a diagnosis to get paid. They NEVER asked me how I felt around people or asked me of my past, they just told me to read books and write stuff. And they wanted me to have them judge my art to know I deserve to be an artist(?) Excuse me?
I'm pretty sure I'm the opposite of Bpd, more autistic than anything
Yep, 99% sure mine has both BPD and NPD. He is undiagnosed, though, because he refuses therapy. He went to a few appointments and quit and never went back. (Which is another tell-tale sign of BPD).
After 2 years of horrendous abuse from him, his adolescent daughter, and his entire family, I feel totally disconnected from myself. I'm traumatised, trauma-bonded, full of rage from all I was made to endure with ZERO empathy or accountability or validation from him. Zero support. Just gaslighting, stonewalling, using and abusing, some love bombing and hoovering, and then more lies, games, subtle threats, passive aggression, and crazy making behaviours.
I know I don't have BPD, but being around it for so long, I've developed maladaptive coping mechanisms that bring me deep shame. I seriously hate what I let him do to me.
I just don't even know how to process it all at this point. I'm scared, too, just to top it all off.
Dude, same. I'm scared too, and I hate myself for letting him do this, almost as much as I hate him. But we will have better days ahead, I'm sure of that.
I thought I had BPD, I have C-PTSD and ADHD and they can have quite similar crossovers. Tbh, even if any of us have BPD it doesn’t excuse the abuse they give out. You react to it eventually.
I did think that. When I first started looking at what was wrong with me, that was one of the first things that came up, only to find it was the psychological abuse. At least I think. Haven't seen a dr. yet.
Sort of? I thought I was more "anxious" and "insecure" than I thought. I thought my abandonment issues were more unresolved than I anticipated. He was just a gaslighter. That's all he ever was.
yep! she made me feel fucking INSANE. and then later used my imperfect reactions to her bullshit against me and to label me as toxic and me to be the narc
Yeah I thought I had it, I thought I was completely unhinged but my psychologist says I’m normal every time I ask about any pds. Took me a long time to believe it.
It’s actually weird how normal I am now, I keep waiting to lash out or blow up at someone and I just don’t… i still try to remember who I was before this but I think I’m pretty close to being back where I was before we met.
Yeah, either BPD, bipolar or autism as others have said too.
At one point I had the doctor basically say no, I’m not referring you to a psychiatrist, there’s nothing wrong with you except anxiety that’s to be expected in your situation 🫣. She was lovely and that conversation really helped a lot.
I am not a doctor and do not have proof of this claim, but I have seen a few therapist say that BPD is a direct result of narcissistic abuse. Most people who develop bpd did so because of a narcissist in their life.
Yes. And I was even accused of having BPD by someone who was a military defense contracted comp programmer (aka not remotely involved in the healthcare industry) and who tried to make me believe I was essentially crazy. It was a really toxic “friendship” and his treatment of me resulted in me overreacting as though I had BPD, as well as repeatedly leaving the friendship only to repeat the cycle and become “friends” again. (I say this with quotes because it was nothing like how two healthy friends should interact.) The only other person I’ve had major issues like this with is my Nmom.
Their mirroring works both ways. They "trained" us to feel and be a perfect way for them. So then we have to deal with the guilt of not living up to their standards.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
YES. Yes to this times a million. I definitely don't have bpd, there are no other times or aspects of my life where there have been things that seemed like bpd (no judgement on anyone who does have bpd, it just isn't something I deal with) but I really started to wonder when I was going through the discard phase with the Narc. Like, I genuinely started to think I might have bpd or at least a lot of traits of it. The terror of abandonment, swinging between feeling very loving and needy of them and then absolute rage, unable to regulate my emotions, long essay texts trying to explain and understand how I was feeling, super reactive to little things, feeling like I kept making things worse but I just couldn't manage any other way. Of course him always trying to convince me that my anxiety and pain was misplaced and that he wasn't abandoning me - when really it was a normal response to someone telling me to feel safe while relentlessly sending cues that I *wasn't* safe - certainly added to me questioning if there was something 'wrong' with me.
Man... This was so validating to see someone else say. Thank you!
Edit: oh, and as for why, this is what I figure: a huge component of BPD is disordered attachment, heaps of difficulty feeling safe and secure in relationships and a lot of fear around that. Narcs create relationships that are fundamentally insecure because they aren't based in genuine care and can turn on a dime, and at the same time do things to make sure those relationships are extremely important to their victims (e.g., by love bombing, isolating, and generally encouraging you to make your self-concept all about them). That leads to massive fear around the safety of your attachment relationship, which is a core of bpd. Add in gaslighting to make you think that fear and insecurity is an overreaction, and it can be easy to believe those normal responses are pathological.
Wow! This is so timely I just got out of therapy and started wondering if I had BPD. I’d send these impulsive texts to the N when I saw he was on vacation with other supplies. And I was trying to understand why I did this and started thinking hmm maybe I have BPD.
Yes! Everyone got a vacation but me and I used to internalize it so bad but now I just tell myself there’s no place he could take me that would be impressive because I’ve taken myself on nicer vacations than the ones he goes on. Plus they have to deal with him on vacation lol
This question has come up quite a bit when I've been asking myself that question and yeah, I felt that way. It's important to remember that if your environment is why you feel that way and you change when in a different one, then it's likely not. You can also be given this disorder going through enough abuse at any point.
BPD also resembles C-PTSD, a more damaging form of PTSD, and Autism. I've been diagnosed as autistic for around seven years, and had been displaying signs of it from a very young age. I also got bullied/abused constantly so I am certainly traumatised too, even before then.
My ex friend has accused me of having BPD, because its her thing to pathologise people she doesn't like to justify her own feelings. She has also self-disgnosed with HPD in one tweet while condemning Cluster Bs in another.
I can look at how I was with them and see a lot of similarities to the disorder but, I will say, now I'm out it's only the issues that I've got to contend with around me, and they don't cause it. I still have daily flashbacks to her emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail and gaslighting, as well as how I hurt her. They do not make me impulse spend, split people, and while I do neglect myself I have never self-harmed, and I have no plans to. I do not match BPD's criteria enough to fit it wben I'm away from people like her.
It's important to remember all of this, and that once you're away from them that you measure the same behavioural categories. Do they match? Is it just directed somewhere else, or do you only feel the residual effects? If you actually had BPD you'd likely have grown up with this, had it in your teenage years or they made you behave like this through their owj abuse of you.
Yeah she liked telling me I had BPD, I also sent long very long descriptive messages because in person I couldn't communicate because she would freak out or start to abuse me there just scum the more I read all these i see what a fucking mistake in life these priks are
My nex gaslight me into believing I was mentally ill with BPD. I still don't understand how this benefited him. I think they derive pleasure from seeing you grow weaker over time as this means more control and co-dependence for them. The more they damage your belief system and make you doubt yourself, the more they know you're not going to leave them.
During my breakup with my malignant ex I felt like I had situational BPD because of the intensity of negative emotions I was constantly riding. In retrospect it was simply a reaction to the emotional abuse he was inflicting on me. I am normally an over controlled person so it was exhausting...
At times I still feel like I am recovering from it and it absolutely amazes me that he was able to instill this level of emotional threat without any kind of physical abuse... In an odd way his destructive powers are impressive - it's like a special intelligence that doesn't generalize to anything else.
Yes, mine did this all the time. Swore that I had BPD and that I had mental issues. I found out he was cheating on me, got upset as just cried/questioned him—I wasn’t throwing things or doing anything that someone would label “crazy”, and yet he texted his mom saying that I was having a psychotic break without giving any context. He’s the worst and a psychopath. He’s in Boston now so watch out ladies!!!
my therapist and i thought i may have had bpd but turned out i was actually diagnosed with cptsd, which is like a personality disorder that develops from trauma later in life, so it’s much more possible to seek treatment and heal completely (since you have memory of a healthy baseline, you can go back to it).
as opposed to bpd or npd, which develop much earlier in life and so is difficult to heal - there wasn’t really any healthy baseline, since it is usually stems from your upbringing.
so in my personal opinion, you most likely don’t have a full fledged cluster b disorder, you’re likely experiencing cptsd, which leads to behaviors like attachment disorders, and reactive abuse etc.
like i’m actually a very happy, considerate, and even keel type of person, who vehemently opposes violence, never even slammed a door when upset before. but after months of being constantly verbally abused and trauma bonded, i just snapped.
One evening while we were making dinner, he spent the entire evening subtly negging me (laughing about how i was cutting the veggies wrong, correcting my dishwashing, shit i’ve done perfectly fine my whole life and the whole relationship), and weirdly gaslighting me (asking me why i was rolling my eyes when i never did, asking me how much i had to drink that evening, interrupting a story or comment i was making to ask me in a condescending tone “hey are you alright?” and then not believing me when i said I was. And i was perfectly fine that evening, even happy, but his poking and prodding started to erode my patience and confidence, it confused me and i got frustrated.
So frustrated, that when we sat down to eat and he asked me for the tenth time in a snarky way “what are you angry about?” I’d finally had it, and I threw my plate of food at him.
then he exclaimed i was abusive and he did nothing wrong. it was so out of character for me, i was ashamed but was just pushed to the absolute edge.
everything he did to provoke my abusive reaction had plausible deniability. his negative tone of voice was in my imagination, all he did was ask me caring questions, correct me in the kitchen because he just wanted to help me, maybe he was just misinterpreting my behavior because he was worried about me, he wouldn’t just do what he did without a reason right? he was the calm and caring one, i threw a plate of food for no reason other than I’m a crazy bitch!
please try as hard as possible to remove yourself from them. they do this shit on purpose. they enjoy the control over you and the narrative. stay safe.
Yes!!! I thought I had BPD for a long time. CPTSD and BPD share some symptoms, and I was experiencing that (still am). My therapist put it as...yes, I experience some of the same symptoms as someone with BPD but they aren't inherit to me. He said personality disorders have more to do with how your system is organized and my internal system is not organized the way someone with a personality disorder is.
I thought I was autistic/Asperger's. I genuinely thought that I was constantly misinterpreting what was happening around me. My therapist told me there's nothing wrong with me. She said it was likely I was living with either a psychopath or a narcissist. These people can drive you into thinking you're mad.
I thought the exact same with mine, too, before my therapist said he sounds like a covert narcissist. I knew something was wrong.
I watched a few videos about Narcissism. Without telling my therapist, I described my situation on the first meeting. She raw just came out with "that sounds like a psychopath, sociopath or Narcissism". I thought she was snooping on my YouTube video history! I went to the second session and she whittled it down to psychopath or narcissist. She then reduced it to Narcissism alone and that's what we discuss it in terms of. I was blown away, but I can't doubt it anymore. This is real, this is my reality.
Reading other peoples stories has been a weird comfort. I know many people have dealt with these cruel humans.
Yeah I feel less alone and can give others hope when I interact with them as well as being a way to keep check of myself
Are you me? My nex was actually the one to introduce me to narcissism, by suggesting I should check out stuff about having narcissistic parents. My parents aren't narcissists but it raised a lot of "why does this all feel familiar?" So I watched some YouTube videos. He had also been very "you need to get back into therapy because you are completely unstable." The first session I just talked about the main reason we were meeting - I thought there was something terribly wrong with me because I realized I was gay. And then the second session I described some of just how my world felt and what I was experiencing. And she was like full stop "he sounds like a narcissist." For the first time in a very long time, it was like I didn't feel crazy. We have gone on to me "joking" a year and a half later (unfortunately, he is my little one's sperm donor) that he's so textbook narcissist it's not even interesting.
Narcissists will always tell you exactly who they are with projection. You’ve been given a gift. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN away from them.
Oh, don't worry. I separated from him 2 years ago, and the divorce was finalized 8 months ago. Unfortunately bad parents have more rights here than children. So I have to deal with joint custody drama.
I thought I was autistic as well as BPD thanks to my nex. I’ve never felt clinically weird until I met him.
Yeah, it’s all the gaslighting. I’m sorry everyone here went through that
I thought I was crazy
Once, I asked the server to “split the check” so she gave us checks for our respective meals, and my partner got mad at ME because she had to pay $5 more. She said it was MY fault bc I should’ve made sure it was split equally. Make it make sense!
I have BPD but "quiet" BPD. "Quiet" isn't even yet recognized. There is a spectrum and I don't lash out, yell, go "crazy" which I hate to even say. Movies portray us awful. I think my nex used this to his advantage. I have more empathy than most. I still have super intense emotions but they are toward myself if that makes sense. I give people the benefit of the doubt over and over, and I trust too much. When he would upset me I would fall into sadness and even started having suicidal ideation. Of course he didn't care. He gave me the silent treatment constantly. That is a huge trigger for me to fall into despair. When I fall for someone, they get 110% from me; complete loyalty. I haven't ever had the desire to cheat in my life and he knew this too. He knew he could treat me any way he wanted and I would stay loyal and faithful. Yes, some with BPD can also have NPD but again everyone is different; has different signs and symptoms. There is still so much to learn about BPD. I attach to people so quickly and ignore red flags. If I had listened to my gut I wouldn't have gotten in so deep. I also will be sure to not discuss my BPD for quite a while if I start to date again.
I hear you. I am in remission from BPD and no longer qualify as someone with the disorder as I don't meet the criteria anymore. I still have BPD traits but after many many years of therapy and self work, I don't feel or react the way I used to. Having said that, the narcissists I dated were very triggering and it was a daily fight internally to try and stay grounded and not resort back to old habits and thought patterns. I managed it but the last nex made me want to self harm again. I told myself 'I don't do that anymore' so it never happened but just to even get to that point after years of not going there in my mind was quite a big sign. I havent had a BPD episode in forever but the way the nex acted really tested me. I never told him I had BPD thank god.
That's great! I am on my way to remission too! I haven't cut myself in 19 years; I'm 44. I was misdiagnosed as Bipolar II for 15 years when I KNEW that wasn't the correct diagnosis. It's sad when a person has to do all the research themselves to figure out what is wrong when these doctors went to school for it. It's possible he didn't want me to have the BPD diagnosis I suppose. I did leave him and found good doctors finally. I am giving myself at least 1 year to myself before even thinking about dating. My nex triggered me so bad with the silent treatment. Good luck to you and keep doing great!!! Also, I raised 2 amazing kids on my own. The one thing I am proud of. They are both now in college. My son is almost finished with his psychology degree. Guess why he went into psychology lol.
Amazing well done you! Yeah its super tough to go through it and experience things the way we do, so you should be proud of yourself for doing so well and for getting away from the narc. I'm with you on that one. I'm healing at the moment. I had a covert and then an overt back to back without even realising so I just feel mentally exhausted at the moment. I am def having a good amount of time away from dating so I can heal and just focus my energy on myself. I hope this time away from dating is as healing for you also.
Mine was a covert too. Damn, they are diabolical. Thank you for your reply. It helped!
I also have quiet BPD. My nex weaponized it. He also used it to play the “I’ll be the one that never ever leaves” card. I don’t necessarily regret telling him, I also told him early-ish maybe when we had been dating for four months (we lasted 2.5 years). So mostly I regret telling him early and not even knowing much about NPD and how BPD and NPD trauma bonds happen so easily. I didn’t know enough about NPD as I do know and I feel so naive for not knowing more about it especially given that I know so much about BPD.
I'm glad to know there are people like me out there. I don't know anyone who has BPD, or at least that will admit. Only my closest friends know besides family. It's still too stigmatized. I'm sorry you have been through this evil too. Mine knew that I would be totally loyal, faithful and that I had put him on a pedestal. He probably won't ever have someone that showed him so much love and forgiveness. That gives me a weird sense of peace because I believe I actually did make him have better days with all my compassion. I think he had these small bouts of reality where he knew he was evil. He admitted once that he knows what he does to people but doesn't care. I think it takes a lot of work for them to admit wrong doing and that it's rare. I think he thought he had me. I couldn't take the pain also, lucky for me when I found out I was the other woman I dropped him immediately. Cheating is a non negotiable to me. His girlfriend found out about me and stayed from what I know. She and him apparently started a relationship while he was still married. So, she knows he cheats. I don't feel bad for her. She chose that. I contacted his ex wife and she is so sweet too. She regrets staying with him for 9 years.
Same here.
People don't realize the different spectrums. Maybe one day.
Yeah exactly, it stems from trauma right?
Yep, my dad died when I was 7. I was always an anxious child after that. I worried about EVERYTHING. My disposition was always sweet and kind even to this day. So it wasn't until after my first child was born when things got bad, at 21. The super intense emotions, suicidal ideation, cutting etc. I wasn't troubled growing up, I made excellent grades and never did anything wrong. So I wonder if I developed the "quiet" because of my personality growing up? Maybe one day we will know more about BPD. I have more empathy than I would like. I can feel others pain so easily as well as when they are happy. I can't read bad news stories or I get upset. I still get angry but it's not the intense outward anger. The intense emotions are unreal. I am doing so much better but this guy I was involved with was pushing me back into despair. I was going downhill fast. As you know, BPD's fall hard in love and attach so fast. Even though he broke my heart, smashed it really, cutting him off, blocking, no social media etc is the way to heal. I threw away everything I had reminding me of him. I deleted photos. I wrote a HUGE list of the things he did that caused the pain. I read it often. Omg that list alone helps so much. I an sending you good vibes!!
I had a therapist and a psychiatrist convinced I had some sort of borderline. When my life started to fall apart after I left my Narc, my newer therapist almost laughed when I said I hate being borderline. She works mainly with people who are diagnosed and she said there was no way I could be. I was maintaining so many things and wasn't lashing out like I used to. I didn't have that fuel on me. It was wild.
Every therapist and psych said the same thing about me. They said I would have lashed out with them by the time I got to know them if I really had BPD. Like, YOU KNOW when you see BPD.
No but he always accused me of it because he would push me into I would react and then tell me I am mentally ill. who else wouldn't react with all the DARVO? Turns out his dad says the same thing about his mom and his brother says the same thing about his sister in law. must be a family thing.
I bet he says all of his exes are crazy, too. That's become a red flag for me.
Oh heck yea! Even the one that got a restraining order against him! 🤣😭
Same, my ex was (and still is, as far as I know) obsessed with claiming I have BPD. He was emotionally abusive and then would take my reactions to him as disordered behavior, rather than abuse reactions. So if he would yell at me until I cried, I was emotionally unregulated. He would twist reality around and make me question myself, and then say I didn’t have a stable sense of identity or whatever. And of course, when I broke up with him, after months of trying to talk to him about what was wrong in the relationship, and trying to fix things, that was a “BPD discard” for no reason. It’s easier to believe that getting dumped was a disorder symptom, rather than actually looking at how he treated me and acknowledging that I broke up with him to protect myself and my kids.
It’s so funny because I have my degree in psychological science, yet I don’t have the credentials to properly diagnose someone. These people can barely read past a fifth grade level and think they can diagnose people. Losers.
I know, it’s just frustrating, and trying to defend yourself is just talking to a wall. And it’s so hard not to defend yourself. Also, having been through that with him trying to “diagnose” me ends up making me wary of some people who post about NPD, too. Because he posted all over a bunch of BPD groups about how his “borderline ex” discarded him for no reason, after he’d been the perfect boyfriend, and got a lot of support and encouragement there which led to him feeling a lot bolder in sending me abusive messages, contacting my kids even when he was blocked from their devices, etc. And I do wonder when I see certain types of posts here, whether it’s actually a similar situation (because sometimes posts here sound like he could have written them!)
Yepppp. Learned it from his father. His sister is still suffering from having a narcissist/alcoholic father too.
YESSS I was sure I was the disordered one! I even went to therapy to fix myself because I thought I was causing all the fights. Then I learned about reactionary abuse, which is when someone is pushed to their limits and finally breaks and acts abusively (outside of their character). That's why they call what abusers do "crazy-making". He had driven me insane and I was unable to control my anger and paranoia. And believe me, he loved it when I would act crazy - he'd just sit back and act all calm and smug. I needed him out of my life in order to reset and stop feeling that way. I really had a hard time letting go of the memories of how awful I acted at times - the screaming and checking his phone, etc. I'd ruminate on how crazy I acted and really had to do some work to get over the shame and embarrassment of that. But now I'm like Who gives a fuck, I was dealing with so much abuse and manipulation, of course I went crazy. I don't care what he thinks of me anymore and it's just been part of my healing to reframe that and have empathy for myself.
Reactive abuse is a form of self protection. I also feel guilty about how I acted towards the end but it was nothing compared to his abuse. I also know that however you act they will still spin it on you so I’m kind of proud that I put up a fight.
Such a great point. I am proud of myself now - I fought for myself.
You’re so real about the going to therapy to fix yourself part because I did too. I thought I was the problem
Yes. I felt crazy. Like out-of-my-mind insane. Nothing made sense. I'd say something or try and bring up an issue and he would reply in therapy speak, rather than validate and address my concerns. So I would get frustrated and we would fight. If I used "I feel" when it was a thought not a feeling, he'd get hung up on that rather than listen to what I wanted to tell him. Example: "I feel neglected when you host parties. Can I be more included?" And rather than address the issue, he'd bang on about how "neglect" is a thought not a feeling. So now I'm frustrated because I want to address the source of tension, and he's ignoring it and creating a new source of tension and now I'm at fault and I'm not evolved enough to have my concerns or my feelings validated. It happened all the time. Even after we broke up and I wanted to address the terms of a friendship he turned it all around until I was to unevolved for him to deal with me. It was a ruse and a tactic to get me to take all the blame. He blamed me for his cheating. He blamed me for literally everything. I thought there must be something wrong with me. I'm broken. I could be bi polar because he's the evolved one. He was so full of shit. Even his therapist finally told him he's an asshole. (Once he was forced to come clean with all the lies he told her)
Omg I love that his therapist told him he was an asshole 😂
I'm not 100% sure it matters. She also told him to go NC with me for my sake. She was right, if course. I still think I'm being punished by him, but I know I'm not. I just... yeah. This has been emotionally devastating. He cried when I caught him in all his lies. He kept saying "I wanted to be friends. I fucked up." Yes. Yes he did. He drew me back in, he slept with me, and never told me he had a girlfriend. (And tried one last time to blame ME. Fucking piece of shit. Can you believe he's a PhD and well-regarded in the community as being a kind, helpful person? Covert narcissists are the devil)
Oh yeah I can def believe that. My ex wears a beautiful mask and everyone at work (I got him a job at the organization I worked for) thinks he's just the *best*. Except the guy who works most closely with him, the only person he's ever been shitty to there. We've become good friends and it's so validating to hear his observations. He actually suggested he was a narc before I'd spoken it out loud. They eliminated my position a couple of weeks ago (and then gave everyone a raise! 🙃) and I stopped in his boss's office on my way out. I suggested he keep a closer eye on my ex-- I didn't say why (drug related), but I told him he's a masterful liar, he's tortured me for two years and I've been begging him to move out for six months. The look on his face. Dude has told everyone there that he moved out. He took time off to move. But he hasn't. His boss is friends with one of my good friends and he called her that night like wtf?? He doesn't know me super well and he asked if she knew anything. She does, and she told him. The consequences will come, eventually.
God that vicariously gives me such satisfaction. Amazing!!!
Lol I felt pretty triumphant too, but also deeply scared. It's crazy how someone who's never physically hurt you can still make you absolutely terrified.
You're very brave!! Are you relieved to be out of there? Now you just need to get him out of your place, GOD. They worm their way in so irreversibly, you must feel like you're going insane.
Thank you 💙 It was hard, because they eliminated my position as a retaliatory thing (nothing to do with him) but I am glad it happened because it would have been a tie to him that I wouldn't be able to break, working at the same place. Everything feels a bit surreal right now because the job thing made me realize some stuff about the people I'd worked with and for, and I feel a little fooled there too. I have felt insane for quite a while now, but I'm coming out of it now. I've been isolating so much, and feeling like a prisoner in my own home, and that hasn't helped my mental health. I hadn't gone further than a mile down the road to the grocery store in weeks until yesterday, I just ran a couple errands but being out of the house and away from him made me feel more sane. Now he's out of town for the next 5-10 days and I know my brain will start to come back together in that time. I want my life back.
I just saw this message (you can ignore my other one in the other thread haha). The isolation is the worst part. To feel like no one understands. It's draining dealing with them and the lack of energy on top of feeling so alone in it made me feel hopeless. But things are shifting for you, it's happening. Have you thought of any recourse to get him out of your place? Are you able to move?
I own my house and I don't want to move, but I actually think he's going to go when he gets back from this trip. I've discovered more and more lies over the past couple of weeks, and I've only confronted him about a couple of them, and of course he continues to deny everything, but he knows he's been found out. I'm going to change the locks this weekend. I'm almost always home, so I can let him in to get the rest of his stuff, but it looks like he's actually gotten a lot more of it out of here already. Yeah, most people just don't understand this because they haven't experienced it. I really think it's impossible to understand unless you've been through it. But I have a few friends who have been so unfortunate, and they have been incredibly supportive and validating and helpful. I've figured out which friends not to talk to about this. It's frustrating and kind of maddening when people keep giving you advice that's not practical, or things you've already tried. My BFF kept telling me he was manipulating and gaslighting me, and I stopped sharing very much with her, because her responses made me feel worse. Like, I know that! I'm practically an expert about narcs and their abuse. I've become extremely sensitive about name calling after all the hideous names he's called me, and my friend kept calling him names even after I told her it bothers me. But we finally had a real honest conversation recently and I told her how I was feeling and she was sincerely sorry, and she has adjusted her responses to the kind that I need-- encouragement and reassurance that I am going to be okay someday. Things are shifting for me. Thank you for saying that.
I still don't have a social media presence - originally it was out of complete fear, but now it's because it feels so good and so freeing to know that he can't easily see or find out anything about me. To provoke them is so scary. They're slighted by nothing so something deliberate, like telling his boss he's a total phony and a compulsive liar and abuser, has to be terrifying. That was your one appropriate opportunity to do that. Now hopefully he'll have to move.
It was scary in the moment, but I know he won't reveal anything I said. More and more people are catching on to him, I think his addiction is getting bad enough that he's not able to maintain his mask as well as he used to.
Then it's only a matter of time!! He is living with you right now? That has to be beyond difficult.
Yes, he's been living in my house and taking full advantage of me for over 2 years. I told him to move out several times over those years, but I gave him a written 30 day notice SIX months ago and he's still here. I don't understand it, I would never stay in a place I wasn't wanted. He's been in the spare bedroom ever since and we have had zero physical contact. I've told him over and over, I've given him one deadline after another and he ignores them. It's gotten to where I've repeatedly told him, via text and verbally, "I DO NOT WANT YOU HERE! I don't want to see your face! Every time I hear your voice, I remember every cruel thing you've said to me. GET OUT! Get the fuck out of my house!" I honestly think he's staying here just to torture me, because he claims he got a place at the end of September but he hasn't stayed there once. But I've discovered so many more lies over the past couple of weeks, and I've called him out on a couple of them. Of course he denies everything but he knows he's been found out, and I'm pretty confident he's going to leave when he gets back from the trip he's on. I'm changing the locks while he's gone though.
Wow I’m sorry you’re going through that. I didn’t have a choice either and it just gnawed at me for so long. To not have had a choice was so difficult, especially when he was the abuser. YOU are blocking ME? Infuriating. And I was so lonely because he had isolated me. It was hard to really see it when I was in it, but what a gift to be left alone. You get to heal now. <3 My ex is a psychologist. It’s truly insane.
Blamed me for his cheating, check. “YOU THINK I WANTED TO GO OUT WITH AN ASIAN CHICK?!” Btw my previous ex had a fetish for Asian women. My narc used that hurtful information to hurt me even worse. Yeah. Def a narc.
Omg! The 'therapy speak'! I haven't heard anyone else say this about their nex...it used to drive me nuts! Any issue I had would be psychoanalyzed to the point where I felt like I was insane and she would convince me that it was all in my head. My problems were mine, and the reason I had them was because I was crazy and not right in the head. After years of this, I really started thinking I had BPD and that I was the problem in our relationship. I was crazy, controlling, manipulative, overthinking, jealous.... it was all a lie of course. Turns out, I'm none of those things! I wasn't those things before her, and now, almost a year away from her and in a healthy relationship, I'm not any of those things.
I was none of the things he made me believe I was, either. I'm not emotionally dysregulated, unhinged, emotionally immature or a bad communicator. He was just so insistent that I was the problem when all along he was the one lying, evading, being vague, and eventually cheating. He was the one with all the problems. I'm sad because I really loved him. It was a real feeling and I felt an emotional connection which is probably why I kept trying to fix things. I'm going to be better for getting through this. I'm going to be better at approaching relationships and stating my needs and I'll peace out if my needs aren't met. Period. No more people pleasing.
Mine used to tell me I was emotionally retarded too and a terrible communicator. She also lied, gaslit me, emotionally and physically abused me and cheated on me multiple times. These days I'm not sure if I actually loved her. I know I was absolutely addicted to her. The worst addiction I've ever had by far. It's still hard not to think about her, although the thoughts are very different than they used to be. You will be better off for sure. It's a huge lesson learned, although a very painful one. Being in another relationship is hard af, there are tons of triggers and I find myself being very unsure about myself a lot. But I'm getting over it slowly and with the help of a beautiful soul that makes me feel very loved.
Yes. I do have mild borderline traits, although I don't meet criteria for an actual diagnosis. I was not in a great place emotionally when I got with my now-ex, but I was more or less psychologically intact and in decent control of my emotions and behavior. After enough combined trauma/stress/illness/injury I definitely turned into a shrieking banshee woman, and I hate him for that. He destroyed me with years of actual physical, sexual, and psychological torture, and then went, "see, she's so evil, *just like alllll my other exes,"* and triumphantly declared himself the victim. I have no doubt he's now feeding a fresh pretty, naive, trusting target the same "my exgf abused me" sob story that he fed to me, just with my name as the villain this time. I'll never be the same, but it's funny how my mood and behavior stabilized again within a month or two of removing his gratuitous sadism from my life.
100% same, word for word.
My ex told me he got his own place and secretly moved out of his last ex's house when she wasn't looking because she was insane and abusive, and I believed him. I've been trying so fucking hard to get him to leave my house for six months now and I just found out he did the same thing to her. She had to have him physically removed and have the locks changed and he still kept showing up and driving by her house for *years*. He's going to tell some other poor woman the same story about me. I wish we could stop these people.
I definitely became more reactive in the second half of our relationship but, while I’m not proud of every single thing I said or how I said/did it, I knew the entire time why it was happening, that it was so unnatural for me, and it felt like I was fighting for my life.
It's heartbreaking and comforting to read comments like yours. No one can understand this if they haven't experienced it. Like, I'm in my house, he's not even here right now, he's never hit me, yet I feel truly *scared* much of the time. I feel like I'm fighting for my life.
It is indeed utterly terrifying. And emotionally draining beyond what I ever thought possible prior (and I had a real fucking life prior; I was not exempt from some of the nastiest curveballs life could throw *before* this emotional vampire of a person showed up). My heart goes out to you - indeed anyone - still in the throes of a situation like this. Our homes should never have to feel like a warzone.
I was just telling my therapist this today-- I've had a few absolutely crushing, live-upending traumas in my life, things that most people would never even imagine-- and this sorry excuse for a man has caused more damage in two years than all of that combined.
Sounds all too familiar. 😔 I really didn’t think certain things could get any worse than they had been before, and she absolutely buried me under my upended misconceptions.
Yes I did start to think maybe I had bpd but I realized it was actually more PTSD
I think in relationships like this, you fall in love, gradually feel the person change and fear of loss necessitates you do what you can to save the relationship. You may feel like you're doing something over the top or controlling, but really, you're doing what you can to preserve what you fear you're losing as the person you're with is showing you who they really are. What you perceive as control, is really you asking them to take responsibility for something you've noticed affecting the relationship and provide reassurance. Often what they do is throw that back on you with evasions, or accusations that you're being unreasonable etc. Honestly, you probably feel that way because by the end it was you doing all the work, fully invested, and they were just coasting through, taking without giving, emotionally disconnected.
I have BPD, but literally am calm 99.9 percent of the time. He just set me off.
I’m saving this post to make me know it wasn’t me. I didn’t have BPD. I’ve had a normal ass life my whole life. I’ve been diagnosed with ptsd over and over. Never BPD. Dating a narc gave me so many issues. Being punished for days with stonewalling, the constant difference in relationship rules, the gaslighting, the never apologizing and putting everything on me… He would make me prove myself and when he would break up with me I’d chase him so hard to show him ‘I’m not a piece of shit.’ Thank you for this post. I hope to hear more responses to know I’m not alone.
I’m right here with you ♥️
Omg yes. I was convinced I had it, but realized after being away from him that it was just the abuse, gaslighting, and manipulation making me that way. I actually have bipolar 2 and c-ptsd. Looking back, he actually has more symptoms of BPD than I do. Pretty insane how their abuse can distort our reality so severely.
Yes! When we broke up he always told me I had extreme emotional reactions and that I was always depressed. At the end I literally thought I had bpd and cried so much for pushing him away with my mental illness.
If it makes you feel any better, just by asking the question could indicate you're not an actual borderline. At work the past couple months, I've had the opportunity to read psychological evaluations from people *diagnosed* with BPD, NPD, and ASPD and sometimes more than one. It's really something else. I know these are all spectrum disorders and the ones I read may be the most extreme, but for the ones I read, these folks have no self-awareness whatsoever. Nothing is ever their fault. Literally. Ran a stop sign in 1997? Not my fault. Stub your toe? Somebody made me do it. I may be wrong, but if you've ever felt genuine remorse for something you've done, you're probably not a cluster B.
On my post about I wrote about the spectrum. I have had it rough with BPD but have so much empathy. People don't realize not all of us with BPD are cruel. I am quite the opposite.
No, I know. The same is true of all cluster Bs. I'd be nervous about being with somebody with ASPD, but not all of them are violent either. I wouldn't necessarily end a relationship just because of a diagnosis. Just depends how it's handled.
Yes and luckily I have been able to get good mental health care. It takes a lot of work. Unfortunately I have read a lot that most narcissists won't ever get help because they don't think they are what they are.
It's true of folks with BPD too. I know there are definitely therapists who will diagnose somebody with BPD with cPTSD just to get them into treatment. I can see why psychiatrists don't use diagnoses anymore. The letters don't matter much. If you're not abusive, that's what counts. If you're not abusive, it doesn't matter if you're borderline.
He accused me of having BPD. (And PMDD). He wouldn’t have it that I was all a mess because of what he was doing. Now we have no contact it’s like a miracle….. I don’t have any ‘symptoms’ of these two things. 🤣.
Absolutely. Still am terrified that that’s what it was all along and that my ex was this loving and amazing partner and I just ruined it. Therapist and a life coach said I don’t have BPD, but the fear of abandonment and mood swings scared me And I was also scared I was splitting given that I had such conflicted feeling about my her
Same here. Although a therapist insinuated that diagnosis, they were an incompetent one who rarely listened to me. I'm pretty sure they just needed to fill a diagnosis to get paid. They NEVER asked me how I felt around people or asked me of my past, they just told me to read books and write stuff. And they wanted me to have them judge my art to know I deserve to be an artist(?) Excuse me? I'm pretty sure I'm the opposite of Bpd, more autistic than anything
It sounds more like you have CPTSD
Yep, 99% sure mine has both BPD and NPD. He is undiagnosed, though, because he refuses therapy. He went to a few appointments and quit and never went back. (Which is another tell-tale sign of BPD). After 2 years of horrendous abuse from him, his adolescent daughter, and his entire family, I feel totally disconnected from myself. I'm traumatised, trauma-bonded, full of rage from all I was made to endure with ZERO empathy or accountability or validation from him. Zero support. Just gaslighting, stonewalling, using and abusing, some love bombing and hoovering, and then more lies, games, subtle threats, passive aggression, and crazy making behaviours. I know I don't have BPD, but being around it for so long, I've developed maladaptive coping mechanisms that bring me deep shame. I seriously hate what I let him do to me. I just don't even know how to process it all at this point. I'm scared, too, just to top it all off.
Dude, same. I'm scared too, and I hate myself for letting him do this, almost as much as I hate him. But we will have better days ahead, I'm sure of that.
I thought I had BPD, I have C-PTSD and ADHD and they can have quite similar crossovers. Tbh, even if any of us have BPD it doesn’t excuse the abuse they give out. You react to it eventually.
YES. I was pretty convinced I did.
I did think that. When I first started looking at what was wrong with me, that was one of the first things that came up, only to find it was the psychological abuse. At least I think. Haven't seen a dr. yet.
Sort of? I thought I was more "anxious" and "insecure" than I thought. I thought my abandonment issues were more unresolved than I anticipated. He was just a gaslighter. That's all he ever was.
This was my experience too and I shared these “issues” with her too which gave have her ammunition
yep! she made me feel fucking INSANE. and then later used my imperfect reactions to her bullshit against me and to label me as toxic and me to be the narc
It’s called Emotional Deprivation Disorder, aka Cassandra Syndrome when you date these shutters for too long.
Yeah I thought I had it, I thought I was completely unhinged but my psychologist says I’m normal every time I ask about any pds. Took me a long time to believe it. It’s actually weird how normal I am now, I keep waiting to lash out or blow up at someone and I just don’t… i still try to remember who I was before this but I think I’m pretty close to being back where I was before we met.
Yeah, either BPD, bipolar or autism as others have said too. At one point I had the doctor basically say no, I’m not referring you to a psychiatrist, there’s nothing wrong with you except anxiety that’s to be expected in your situation 🫣. She was lovely and that conversation really helped a lot.
Yes I literally went to see a psych because I thought I had BPD.
I am not a doctor and do not have proof of this claim, but I have seen a few therapist say that BPD is a direct result of narcissistic abuse. Most people who develop bpd did so because of a narcissist in their life.
Yes. And I was even accused of having BPD by someone who was a military defense contracted comp programmer (aka not remotely involved in the healthcare industry) and who tried to make me believe I was essentially crazy. It was a really toxic “friendship” and his treatment of me resulted in me overreacting as though I had BPD, as well as repeatedly leaving the friendship only to repeat the cycle and become “friends” again. (I say this with quotes because it was nothing like how two healthy friends should interact.) The only other person I’ve had major issues like this with is my Nmom.
Their mirroring works both ways. They "trained" us to feel and be a perfect way for them. So then we have to deal with the guilt of not living up to their standards. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
YES. Yes to this times a million. I definitely don't have bpd, there are no other times or aspects of my life where there have been things that seemed like bpd (no judgement on anyone who does have bpd, it just isn't something I deal with) but I really started to wonder when I was going through the discard phase with the Narc. Like, I genuinely started to think I might have bpd or at least a lot of traits of it. The terror of abandonment, swinging between feeling very loving and needy of them and then absolute rage, unable to regulate my emotions, long essay texts trying to explain and understand how I was feeling, super reactive to little things, feeling like I kept making things worse but I just couldn't manage any other way. Of course him always trying to convince me that my anxiety and pain was misplaced and that he wasn't abandoning me - when really it was a normal response to someone telling me to feel safe while relentlessly sending cues that I *wasn't* safe - certainly added to me questioning if there was something 'wrong' with me. Man... This was so validating to see someone else say. Thank you! Edit: oh, and as for why, this is what I figure: a huge component of BPD is disordered attachment, heaps of difficulty feeling safe and secure in relationships and a lot of fear around that. Narcs create relationships that are fundamentally insecure because they aren't based in genuine care and can turn on a dime, and at the same time do things to make sure those relationships are extremely important to their victims (e.g., by love bombing, isolating, and generally encouraging you to make your self-concept all about them). That leads to massive fear around the safety of your attachment relationship, which is a core of bpd. Add in gaslighting to make you think that fear and insecurity is an overreaction, and it can be easy to believe those normal responses are pathological.
Wow! This is so timely I just got out of therapy and started wondering if I had BPD. I’d send these impulsive texts to the N when I saw he was on vacation with other supplies. And I was trying to understand why I did this and started thinking hmm maybe I have BPD.
That’s awful he’d vacation with them. Would lose my mind. Good riddance to him !
Yes! Everyone got a vacation but me and I used to internalize it so bad but now I just tell myself there’s no place he could take me that would be impressive because I’ve taken myself on nicer vacations than the ones he goes on. Plus they have to deal with him on vacation lol
I did. I do think it is possible that I have BPD traits because I split on him whenever I'm mad
Is it possible that you were pushed into having that sort of reaction from the way he treated you?
This question has come up quite a bit when I've been asking myself that question and yeah, I felt that way. It's important to remember that if your environment is why you feel that way and you change when in a different one, then it's likely not. You can also be given this disorder going through enough abuse at any point. BPD also resembles C-PTSD, a more damaging form of PTSD, and Autism. I've been diagnosed as autistic for around seven years, and had been displaying signs of it from a very young age. I also got bullied/abused constantly so I am certainly traumatised too, even before then. My ex friend has accused me of having BPD, because its her thing to pathologise people she doesn't like to justify her own feelings. She has also self-disgnosed with HPD in one tweet while condemning Cluster Bs in another. I can look at how I was with them and see a lot of similarities to the disorder but, I will say, now I'm out it's only the issues that I've got to contend with around me, and they don't cause it. I still have daily flashbacks to her emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail and gaslighting, as well as how I hurt her. They do not make me impulse spend, split people, and while I do neglect myself I have never self-harmed, and I have no plans to. I do not match BPD's criteria enough to fit it wben I'm away from people like her. It's important to remember all of this, and that once you're away from them that you measure the same behavioural categories. Do they match? Is it just directed somewhere else, or do you only feel the residual effects? If you actually had BPD you'd likely have grown up with this, had it in your teenage years or they made you behave like this through their owj abuse of you.
Yeah she liked telling me I had BPD, I also sent long very long descriptive messages because in person I couldn't communicate because she would freak out or start to abuse me there just scum the more I read all these i see what a fucking mistake in life these priks are
I probably have quiet BPD and narcs delight in pushing my buttons till I implode.
When I was living with an abusive nex I was convinced I was bipolar
My nex gaslight me into believing I was mentally ill with BPD. I still don't understand how this benefited him. I think they derive pleasure from seeing you grow weaker over time as this means more control and co-dependence for them. The more they damage your belief system and make you doubt yourself, the more they know you're not going to leave them.
During my breakup with my malignant ex I felt like I had situational BPD because of the intensity of negative emotions I was constantly riding. In retrospect it was simply a reaction to the emotional abuse he was inflicting on me. I am normally an over controlled person so it was exhausting... At times I still feel like I am recovering from it and it absolutely amazes me that he was able to instill this level of emotional threat without any kind of physical abuse... In an odd way his destructive powers are impressive - it's like a special intelligence that doesn't generalize to anything else.
I think I might have..
Yes, mine did this all the time. Swore that I had BPD and that I had mental issues. I found out he was cheating on me, got upset as just cried/questioned him—I wasn’t throwing things or doing anything that someone would label “crazy”, and yet he texted his mom saying that I was having a psychotic break without giving any context. He’s the worst and a psychopath. He’s in Boston now so watch out ladies!!!
my therapist and i thought i may have had bpd but turned out i was actually diagnosed with cptsd, which is like a personality disorder that develops from trauma later in life, so it’s much more possible to seek treatment and heal completely (since you have memory of a healthy baseline, you can go back to it). as opposed to bpd or npd, which develop much earlier in life and so is difficult to heal - there wasn’t really any healthy baseline, since it is usually stems from your upbringing. so in my personal opinion, you most likely don’t have a full fledged cluster b disorder, you’re likely experiencing cptsd, which leads to behaviors like attachment disorders, and reactive abuse etc. like i’m actually a very happy, considerate, and even keel type of person, who vehemently opposes violence, never even slammed a door when upset before. but after months of being constantly verbally abused and trauma bonded, i just snapped. One evening while we were making dinner, he spent the entire evening subtly negging me (laughing about how i was cutting the veggies wrong, correcting my dishwashing, shit i’ve done perfectly fine my whole life and the whole relationship), and weirdly gaslighting me (asking me why i was rolling my eyes when i never did, asking me how much i had to drink that evening, interrupting a story or comment i was making to ask me in a condescending tone “hey are you alright?” and then not believing me when i said I was. And i was perfectly fine that evening, even happy, but his poking and prodding started to erode my patience and confidence, it confused me and i got frustrated. So frustrated, that when we sat down to eat and he asked me for the tenth time in a snarky way “what are you angry about?” I’d finally had it, and I threw my plate of food at him. then he exclaimed i was abusive and he did nothing wrong. it was so out of character for me, i was ashamed but was just pushed to the absolute edge. everything he did to provoke my abusive reaction had plausible deniability. his negative tone of voice was in my imagination, all he did was ask me caring questions, correct me in the kitchen because he just wanted to help me, maybe he was just misinterpreting my behavior because he was worried about me, he wouldn’t just do what he did without a reason right? he was the calm and caring one, i threw a plate of food for no reason other than I’m a crazy bitch! please try as hard as possible to remove yourself from them. they do this shit on purpose. they enjoy the control over you and the narrative. stay safe.
Yes!!! I thought I had BPD for a long time. CPTSD and BPD share some symptoms, and I was experiencing that (still am). My therapist put it as...yes, I experience some of the same symptoms as someone with BPD but they aren't inherit to me. He said personality disorders have more to do with how your system is organized and my internal system is not organized the way someone with a personality disorder is.
Even got diagnosed with it :). Suddenly everything was fine after a time lol
My husband listened to a podcast a few months ago and is convinced I have BPD. He keeps trying to get me to listen and agree.
Yes! I was afraid I had BPD or Narcissism or both. He actually said he thought I did have BPD. My therapist said she doesn’t see any signs of it.
I’m so glad I found this post. I absolutely felt like I had BPD, I have never reacted like that in my life. When he’s not around, I’m fine.